Barry "Messi" Bannan - again

[Monty]

He was played out of position yesterday as he has been for many games this season - many games in which he's still managed to play well. He is exactly the kind of player that Villa fans will get on top of and see as a perfect scapegoat, almost no matter what he does.

Don't get me wrong, we clearly missed Delph in that position yesterday, but the idea of playing Barry Bannan in a deep midfield two with Ashley Westwood defending a one-goal lead against, essentially, five Baggies midfielders is a mental idea, and it's hardly his fault that he was put in there. Whenever he's come on and played in an advanced role he's always looked more comfortable and dangerous, and that's pretty much without exception. It's all very well not having specialists, but he's not hugely specialised and limited in the way that, say, NRC is. He's good in the right environment and not so good in others, and I don't think Xavi Hernandez or Andres Iniesta would have done so well in that situation yesterday either, so removed is it from their natural game.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying Bannan is Xavi or Iniesta, obviously.

[tomd2103]

There are a number of players who it is impossible to judge this season.

Bannan was utter turd today, but then again, he's one of the few players we have with a creative spark. With him, and other younger players, it's hard to judge them because the season has been so depressingly horrible, they're all getting dragged down to the lowest level.

If he were playing in a team with a bit of confidence, I think he could do very well, but he's not done that for a long time.

He's 23 Paulie, so isn't really a youngster.  Plus, look at someone like James McCarthy from Wigan - 22 years old, played in a struggling Wigan team for a number of seasons, but still looks a class act.  You've either got it or you haven't I'm afraid. 

[Mister E]

He was played out of position yesterday as he has been for many games this season - many games in which he's still managed to play well. He is exactly the kind of player that Villa fans will get on top of and see as a perfect scapegoat, almost no matter what he does.

Don't get me wrong, we clearly missed Delph in that position yesterday, but the idea of playing Barry Bannan in a deep midfield two with Ashley Westwood defending a one-goal lead against, essentially, five Baggies midfielders is a mental idea, and it's hardly his fault that he was put in there. Whenever he's come on and played in an advanced role he's always looked more comfortable and dangerous, and that's pretty much without exception. It's all very well not having specialists, but he's not hugely specialised and limited in the way that, say, NRC is. He's good in the right environment and not so good in others, and I don't think Xavi Hernandez or Andres Iniesta would have done so well in that situation yesterday either, so removed is it from their natural game.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying Bannan is Xavi or Iniesta, obviously.

Both Xavi and Iniesta are very effective when the team does not have possession, in a way that our Barry isn't.

[Monty]

I'm not sure how well James McCarthy would have done in that position yesterday. Or James Morrison or Wes Hoolahan.

[SoccerHQ]

He was played out of position yesterday as he has been for many games this season - many games in which he's still managed to play well. He is exactly the kind of player that Villa fans will get on top of and see as a perfect scapegoat, almost no matter what he does.

Don't get me wrong, we clearly missed Delph in that position yesterday, but the idea of playing Barry Bannan in a deep midfield two with Ashley Westwood defending a one-goal lead against, essentially, five Baggies midfielders is a mental idea, and it's hardly his fault that he was put in there. Whenever he's come on and played in an advanced role he's always looked more comfortable and dangerous, and that's pretty much without exception. It's all very well not having specialists, but he's not hugely specialised and limited in the way that, say, NRC is. He's good in the right environment and not so good in others, and I don't think Xavi Hernandez or Andres Iniesta would have done so well in that situation yesterday either, so removed is it from their natural game.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying Bannan is Xavi or Iniesta, obviously.

What in your opinion is his best position then?

I think he's too slow to play just off a striker in a 4-5-1. He's a continuity midfield in a 3 but I still don't think he's good enough.

[Clampy]

Bannan was the wrong choice to come yesterday but we did'nt have too many other options to play the role Delph was playing. Maybe if Baker had still been on the pitch, we could have pushed Clark into the middle but all in all it shows why we need a more strength in depth.

[Monty]

What in your opinion is his best position then?

I think he's too slow to play just off a striker in a 4-5-1. He's a continuity midfield in a 3 but I still don't think he's good enough.

I think he can play that position fine, actually, in the 4-2-3-1. You can afford to not be explosively quick in the centre if your passing is consistently finding the man in space and your wide forwards are quicker. I think in a midfield 3 he's also fine as a continuity player with more license to play forward passes, and he's fine as an inside forward in the 4-2-3-1 right or left, as long as you have the explosive option central, like Weimann.

Look, he's not perfect, but he is hardly ever used in ways which play more to his strengths, and is a very easy scapegoat for fans whose pining for players like NRC betrays their prejudices, namely that ball-control is less important than strength - a point destroyed by the way NRC was completely defeated by our 'lightweight' midfield in the recent FA Cup tie. He's quite similar to players like James Morrison and Wes Hoolahan, who are never used in defensive roles and thus never receive the sort of opprobrium Bannan receives.

[SoccerHQ]

O.k but he has scored one goal in all his villa career and that was a penalty. He's played quite a few games for us now.

His set piece delievery is generally useless, (I prefer Westwood taking them) and his stupid brain dead punts forward to no one but the opposition keeper or defence infruiate me game after game. Anything else I've missed out?

[Rip Van We Go Again]

O.k but he has scored one goal in all his villa career and that was a penalty. He's played quite a few games for us now.

One goal (a penalty) in 57 appearances is pretty poor.
That's the scoring record of a full back.

[Monty]

Well yeah, you've missed out the fact that he's been bizarrely played in defensive midfield for most of his career, the fact that he has the best cross completion rate in the division by miles, the times he's played so well this season that neutrals (reputable ones as well - Grauniad and Torygraph, not the red tops) assumed we'd be selling him to a bigger club for a while. As for the 'brain dead punts to the keeper', we seem to be talking about a different player - not that he's not guilty of doing that, but from reading some on here you'd think that was literally all he does, which is maddeningly untrue.

O.k but he has scored one goal in all his villa career and that was a penalty. He's played quite a few games for us now.

One goal (a penalty) in 57 appearances is pretty poor.
That's the scoring record of a full back.

Or of a defensive midfielder.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

He hasn't played many of those games as a defensive midfielder.

[Monty]

He hasn't played many of those games as a defensive midfielder.

He's played most of his games for Villa in a deep midfield two or shunted out to 'right midfield'.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

He hasn't played many of those games as a defensive midfielder.

He's played most of his games for Villa in a deep midfield two or shunted out to 'right midfield'.

Even if he'd played EVERY game as a defensive midfielder, that's still a poor return.

[PaulWinch again]

It was noticeable how we struggled when Delph came off for him yesterday.

[Monty]

He hasn't played many of those games as a defensive midfielder.

He's played most of his games for Villa in a deep midfield two or shunted out to 'right midfield'.

Even if he'd played EVERY game as a defensive midfielder, that's still a poor return.

How many goals do Busquets or Xabi Alonso or even Petrov score? And that's when they're specialists at the position.