Barry Bannan-What does he do ?

[Monty]

Seriously, your idea of passing a football must be very different to mine. Come on, explain the term pass to me please?

A pass from one player that actually reaches a team mate. Bannan likes to pass it to an opposition player. Very occasionally he reaches his a team mate though. How Bannan is still a first team player is beyond me. It's probably because Lerner has pulled the plug on real investment.

Apart from the 23 million spent in the summer being ignored.

How is it nonsense that by very definition 90% of the time the ball leaves their foot it reaches a team mate?

Nonsense is here somewhere for certain.

Ozz, come on, you need to learn the narrative. Every time Bannan gives the ball away, it is directly Lerner's fault.

Monbert, I remember having a discussion with you in pre season when I claimed the team wasn't good enough and we were heading for a relegation battle. You argued that everything was sweetness and light at Villa Park.
Hate to say I told you so.....

I believe sweetness and light were the exact words I used. I also talked about rainbows, fairies, and how lovable pug puppies are, and babies' laughter is more delightful than a honey sandwich.

Alternatively, I probably said we have the nucleus of a good squad and I was optimistic. I still am, incidentally, because the football is coming together at times in ways we haven't seen at VP in a while. It will be tough for a while, it's quite an experiment, but the wrist-slashing misery some people engage in here is reminiscent of a seven year old crying because dinner will be an hour later than usual.

[ozzjim]

The stats don't prove who is a good player and who isn't. But they do prove fairly conclusively whether someone continuously gives the ball away. Neither Westwood or Bannan do.

But base your opinion on a player on stats alone doesn't give you the full story. I'm sure you know that deep down.

No but you get a fair idea how often they waste possession. If they attempt x passes, and are successful 90% of the time, you know full well that making statements like they can't pass are near on idiotic. Thus, pretty much everything that comes out of your mouth once arguing that becomes de-valued on account people remember that your main argument centres on how poor we are at passing, citing our best passers of the ball as evidence.

[supertom]

BB played okay yesterday. I'm still not entirely convinced on his consistency though I do feel in terms of midfield cohesion, he and Westwood play together better than any other combination of mids we have tried thus far. His passing was decent enough yesterday. He didn't give much away. If I compare him to Westwood though, I think Westy's decision making is far better, as is his level headedness. If he makes an error he won't dwell or try too hard to atone with passes that aren't on. Likewise he'll pick and choose when to ping a Hollywood better.
But in that regard, Barry is getting better this season. Given his footballing ability though, we need to see him creating more chances and being more incisive in the final third. I don't think we need him dropping deep in his own half and hitting fancy diagonals. Westwood is excellent at being available along the centre circle and shifting and moving the ball. Bannan needs to instigate some play, further up field IMO. Until he starts stamping more authority on games, he'll struggle to consistently make it at this level.

[ozzjim]

BB played okay yesterday. I'm still not entirely convinced on his consistency though I do feel in terms of midfield cohesion, he and Westwood play together better than any other combination of mids we have tried thus far. His passing was decent enough yesterday. He didn't give much away. If I compare him to Westwood though, I think Westy's decision making is far better, as is his level headedness. If he makes an error he won't dwell or try too hard to atone with passes that aren't on. Likewise he'll pick and choose when to ping a Hollywood better.
But in that regard, Barry is getting better this season. Given his footballing ability though, we need to see him creating more chances and being more incisive in the final third. I don't think we need him dropping deep in his own half and hitting fancy diagonals. Westwood is excellent at being available along the centre circle and shifting and moving the ball. Bannan needs to instigate some play, further up field IMO. Until he starts stamping more authority on games, he'll struggle to consistently make it at this level.

Agree with all of that ST.

[Matt Collins]

The stats don't prove who is a good player and who isn't. But they do prove fairly conclusively whether someone continuously gives the ball away. Neither Westwood or Bannan do.

But base your opinion on a player on stats alone doesn't give you the full story. I'm sure you know that deep down.

I don't know it 'deep down'. That's exactly in line with what I said! But I repeat that stats do disprove your assertion that Bannan continuously gives the ball away.

[LeeB]

Seriously, your idea of passing a football must be very different to mine. Come on, explain the term pass to me please?

A pass from one player that actually reaches a team mate. Bannan likes to pass it to an opposition player. Very occasionally he reaches his a team mate though. How Bannan is still a first team player is beyond me. It's probably because Lerner has pulled the plug on real investment.

There's many, many things that appear beyond you at the moment.

[Percy McCarthy]

Wee Baz is brilliant as Jessie Pinkman in Breaking Bad.

[pauliewalnuts]

Seriously, your idea of passing a football must be very different to mine. Come on, explain the term pass to me please?

A pass from one player that actually reaches a team mate. Bannan likes to pass it to an opposition player. Very occasionally he reaches his a team mate though. How Bannan is still a first team player is beyond me. It's probably because Lerner has pulled the plug on real investment.

Apart from the 23 million spent in the summer being ignored.

How is it nonsense that by very definition 90% of the time the ball leaves their foot it reaches a team mate?

Nonsense is here somewhere for certain.

Ozz, come on, you need to learn the narrative. Every time Bannan gives the ball away, it is directly Lerner's fault.

Monbert, I remember having a discussion with you in pre season when I claimed the team wasn't good enough and we were heading for a relegation battle. You argued that everything was sweetness and light at Villa Park.
Hate to say I told you so.....

It's December, bit early to be waving the "told you so" banner.

If we're picking out old posts, I remember you having a pop at me on several occasions because "I never had a good word to say about the club".

Crikey, how times have changed.

[Brend'Watkins]

SH decided some time back that Lerner's strategy this season was all wrong.  A squad full of kids, wrong.  Signing unheard of players, wrong.  Selling players who want to leave, wrong.  Not signing big name mercenaries, wrong.  Building a squad based on youthful hungry players happy to play for the club, wrong.  There's probably more reasons as well. 

This is my supposition and maybe not Lerner's strategy at all. But whatever it is I'm happier that we are actually trying something different and I'd say the majority of fans back what is trying to be achieved by the club even though we may be in for a bumpy ride.  We will have a stronger base in seasons to come going this route ( The Ajax model maybe) and it's far more fun than watching some journey men players (experience) going through the motions keeping us middle of the league.

[Mister E]

SH decided some time back that Lerner's strategy this season was all wrong.  A squad full of kids, wrong.  Signing unheard of players, wrong.  Selling players who want to leave, wrong.  Not signing big name mercenaries, wrong.  Building a squad based on youthful hungry players happy to play for the club, wrong.  There's probably more reasons as well. 

This is my supposition and maybe not Lerner's strategy at all. But whatever it is I'm happier that we are actually trying something different and I'd say the majority of fans back what is trying to be achieved by the club even though we may be in for a bumpy ride.  We will have a stronger base in seasons to come going this route ( The Ajax model maybe) and it's far more fun than watching some journey men players (experience) going through the motions keeping us middle of the league.

Well said, brother.
I've enjoyed the journey this season so far (despite the frustrations) and think that we will progress to a point where we can enjoy April and May!

... and maybe some of March (which we haven't done for several seasons).

[saunders_heroes]

Seriously, your idea of passing a football must be very different to mine. Come on, explain the term pass to me please?

A pass from one player that actually reaches a team mate. Bannan likes to pass it to an opposition player. Very occasionally he reaches his a team mate though. How Bannan is still a first team player is beyond me. It's probably because Lerner has pulled the plug on real investment.

Apart from the 23 million spent in the summer being ignored.

How is it nonsense that by very definition 90% of the time the ball leaves their foot it reaches a team mate?

Nonsense is here somewhere for certain.

Ozz, come on, you need to learn the narrative. Every time Bannan gives the ball away, it is directly Lerner's fault.

Monbert, I remember having a discussion with you in pre season when I claimed the team wasn't good enough and we were heading for a relegation battle. You argued that everything was sweetness and light at Villa Park.
Hate to say I told you so.....

It's December, bit early to be waving the "told you so" banner.

If we're picking out old posts, I remember you having a pop at me on several occasions because "I never had a good word to say about the club".

Crikey, how times have changed.

It was just a polite reminder that things haven't turned out the way he claimed they would, so far.
As for old posts, I'm sure there's plenty from practically everyone on here who has said things that in hindsight have been proven wrong. I'm sure you'd be no different. 

[Dave Cooper please]

Wee Baz is brilliant as Jessie Pinkman in Breaking Bad.

Bitch.

[tomd2103]

SH decided some time back that Lerner's strategy this season was all wrong.  A squad full of kids, wrong.  Signing unheard of players, wrong.  Selling players who want to leave, wrong.  Not signing big name mercenaries, wrong.  Building a squad based on youthful hungry players happy to play for the club, wrong.  There's probably more reasons as well. 

This is my supposition and maybe not Lerner's strategy at all. But whatever it is I'm happier that we are actually trying something different and I'd say the majority of fans back what is trying to be achieved by the club even though we may be in for a bumpy ride.  We will have a stronger base in seasons to come going this route ( The Ajax model maybe) and it's far more fun than watching some journey men players (experience) going through the motions keeping us middle of the league.

I'm not really sure that the link between 'experienced' and 'mercenaries' is a fair one.  Would the likes of Townsend and Merson be classed as bad signings because they were in their 30s when we signed them?  I don't think anyone is advocating filling the team with experienced players, just adding couple in key positions.

[john e]

SH decided some time back that Lerner's strategy this season was all wrong.  A squad full of kids, wrong.  Signing unheard of players, wrong.  Selling players who want to leave, wrong.  Not signing big name mercenaries, wrong.  Building a squad based on youthful hungry players happy to play for the club, wrong.  There's probably more reasons as well. 

This is my supposition and maybe not Lerner's strategy at all. But whatever it is I'm happier that we are actually trying something different and I'd say the majority of fans back what is trying to be achieved by the club even though we may be in for a bumpy ride.  We will have a stronger base in seasons to come going this route ( The Ajax model maybe) and it's far more fun than watching some journey men players (experience) going through the motions keeping us middle of the league.

Here here

[Risso]

SH decided some time back that Lerner's strategy this season was all wrong.  A squad full of kids, wrong.  Signing unheard of players, wrong.  Selling players who want to leave, wrong.  Not signing big name mercenaries, wrong.  Building a squad based on youthful hungry players happy to play for the club, wrong.  There's probably more reasons as well. 

This is my supposition and maybe not Lerner's strategy at all. But whatever it is I'm happier that we are actually trying something different and I'd say the majority of fans back what is trying to be achieved by the club even though we may be in for a bumpy ride.  We will have a stronger base in seasons to come going this route ( The Ajax model maybe) and it's far more fun than watching some journey men players (experience) going through the motions keeping us middle of the league.

I'm not really sure that the link between 'experienced' and 'mercenaries' is a fair one.  Would the likes of Townsend and Merson be classed as bad signings because they were in their 30s when we signed them?  I don't think anyone is advocating filling the team with experienced players, just adding couple in key positions.

No of course they wouldn't.  It's just another example of somebody peddling the myth that there's no happy medium between division 3 youngsters and players like Alan Hutton.