'Taking the Holte'

[Dave Clark Five]

Steamer, do you remember the big fecker with the beard who was completely fearless and would offer the whole mob out?

WW, if it's a Villa bloke you're on about, i think it may have been Ray Berry. He was a Hells Angel with the Wolverhampton chapter, but rarely missed a game in the early 70's. Always at the front when the shit hit the fan. I think it was Rochdale away in 71(?) when we got of  the special, and as we left the station, he picked this local lad up by the throat against the wall, and snarled at him through gritted teeth, "tell your lot the Villa's in town", before casting him to one side, and leading the march from the station.

No mate, it was a wurzel I was talking about. Big, scary man he was too!

I remember an ogre with a beard at Bristol. Can't remember if it was City or Rovers. We were being escorted back to the station. One such creature stood to the side shouting Berrrrrisssterrrrrllll!
Nobody left the escort to have a go at him.
I remember them coming in the Holte but it could have been early on as it was before my drinking days. Quite a few tried it, including Port Vale, but all left the same way.

[willywombat]

Steamer, do you remember the big fecker with the beard who was completely fearless and would offer the whole mob out?

WW, if it's a Villa bloke you're on about, i think it may have been Ray Berry. He was a Hells Angel with the Wolverhampton chapter, but rarely missed a game in the early 70's. Always at the front when the shit hit the fan. I think it was Rochdale away in 71(?) when we got of  the special, and as we left the station, he picked this local lad up by the throat against the wall, and snarled at him through gritted teeth, "tell your lot the Villa's in town", before casting him to one side, and leading the march from the station.

No mate, it was a wurzel I was talking about. Big, scary man he was too!

I remember an ogre with a beard at Bristol. Can't remember if it was City or Rovers. We were being escorted back to the station. One such creature stood to the side shouting Berrrrrisssterrrrrllll!
Nobody left the escort to have a go at him.

Sounds like the same bloke DC5 and I'm 99% sure it was Rovers

[Steve R]

In the 60,s I remember a game at Villa park(67-68 ?) with the Blues when they a had a large following on the Holte through out the game. The attendence was 50,00
Having said that I went to practicaly every game played between us and them until the end of the 70,s and we were never shy at having a go on the Tilton or the Kop which ever crappy end they claimed to own.
The funniest memory I have was us playing a pre season friendly at Villa Park against them, Trev the cloven hoofed one was their super star " super,super,super boy" Sir Brian was playing for us.
As Dave said, "crews" would come early, pay into the Holte and claim to have taken it.On this occasion ( I was still at school) stories abounded that they intended, taking the Holte.No social network but word of mouth.
A larger number than normal Villa boys took their positions at the top of the Holte early, ( any one remember skippy ?) the noses came in the bottom right witton lane at about 2.00.
As they moved up, charge of the Light Brigade time, Villa fans  swept down and chased them onto the pitch and back through the turnstiles.
As we moved back up in a victory march, I had a smack around the back of my head. it was my Dad.
I had to spend the rest of the game standing next to him and behave. Bless him. I wish he was still around.
I think we won 2-1 Anderson 2 cloven foot 1.
Many teams in my memory came early and "had a go"I do not remember many staying, to the contrary I remember Villa having teams in the Witton to welcome visitors.
Forest at Home in 78, we had some challenging moments in Nottingham earlier in the season, this with a history of them turning up when we played Notts County in Div 3 whetted a few appettites for revenge.
A large contingent, couple of Hundred, Villa fans were in the Witton before kick off. As they came in they were persuaded to leave.
I do not think that there was a hardly a Forest fan in the ground at kick off, they had all gone home early.
This is not glorifying what happened, just saying that at the time that is the way it was.

By Skippy do you mean the disabled skinhead who considered himself something of a leader in the late 60's early 70's? If so I do remember him.

The pre-season game was called 'the Lord Mayor's Cup' I have no idea why, I don't recall it being played before or since.  We did indeed win 2-1 with Willie announcing himself as a goal scoring winger. Excellent cross shot for the opener too.

As an aside, I was also at all the Rovers games played in third division times. I don't recall anything similar to the events described in the Hooligans book taking place.

If you didn't see the first League cup game at Eastville you certainly missed a cracker. Rovers had a very good side at the time, managed by Alec Stock. Pat McMahon scored in the opening minute of the first game as well as the final minute of the replay.

[Dave Clark Five]

I can remember the Villa mob off The Special being led by Mousey and Pete The Greek.
Second and Third Division away games were always lively. We didn't always get our own way. There were some bad trips to places like Cardiff, Port Vale, Bradford, Bolton, Millwall, etc.

[lennythekad]

Pete the Greek was an absolute nutter. Followed two coppers into the bogs at Burnden park, and twatted both of them as I recall!. He used to knock about with a little bloke from Alrewas called Stevie Ryan. He was about 5ft 4", but tough as old boots.
Mousey changed to Blues at some stage in the mid seventies!!!!!!!!!!!!. Don't ask me how that came about.

[peter75]

What was one with Everton in 87 when they won the league? I don't think it was aggressive, more large numbers to see their team?

[andyaston]

What was one with Everton in 87 when they won the league? I don't think it was aggressive, more large numbers to see their team?

It was a big gate for that game well over 30,000 in a season when 18,000 was a decent turnout. They won 1-0 I think, they were scattered about other parts of Villa Park. Didn't hang about afterwards i was only a kid at the time so, my memory of the game is vague.

[adrenachrome]

In the H&V edition "Holte end's last stand" someone mentions the game, against blues, that Tommy Docherty came on the the pitch before the game and bowed down towards the Holte and the place went mental, it was also mentioned that the Holte was divided diagonally from one corner to the other with one half Villa the other half blues, is this correct? 

It is correct Kingthing, and I have written about it a few times before on this site.

Their main mob turned up really early: I remember a very large contingent marching past the bus I was on from the city centre chanting "Doc Doc Docherty Who the fucking hell  is he".  By the time our main characters turned up, they were ensconced on the left side at the back of the Holte in considerable numbers behind a substantial police presence. There were a few attempts to charge them, but it was too late.

They were singing we've the got the Holte End in our hands, and we were singing hiding behind the coppers. For the entire game, coins were being thrown and you could hear them pinging of the struts and stanchions of the stand. Everybody who had a hood wore it up and there were, not surprisingly, many  injuries. a

I knew "Skippy" quite well, as we went to the same primary school in Weoley Castle. Mouse was in the Quinton mob, if memory serves. 

[Kingthing]

In the H&V edition "Holte end's last stand" someone mentions the game, against blues, that Tommy Docherty came on the the pitch before the game and bowed down towards the Holte and the place went mental, it was also mentioned that the Holte was divided diagonally from one corner to the other with one half Villa the other half blues, is this correct? 

It is correct Kingthing, and I have written about it a few times before on this site.

Their main mob turned up really early: I remember a very large contingent marching past the bus I was on from the city centre chanting "Doc Doc Docherty Who the fucking hell  is he".  By the time our main characters turned up, they were ensconced on the left side at the back of the Holte in considerable numbers behind a substantial police presence. There were a few attempts to charge them, but it was too late.

They were singing we've the got the Holte End in our hands, and we were singing hiding behind the coppers. For the entire game, coins were being thrown and you could hear them pinging of the struts and stanchions of the stand. Everybody who had a hood wore it up and there were, not surprisingly, many  injuries. a

I knew "Skippy" quite well, as we went to the same primary school in Weoley Castle. Mouse was in the Quinton mob, if memory serves. 

Thanks for that, very interesting, I read it (in the fanzine) as though it had been divided on purpose prior to the game not how things panned out on the night.   

[Number-7]

In the H&V edition "Holte end's last stand" someone mentions the game, against blues, that Tommy Docherty came on the the pitch before the game and bowed down towards the Holte and the place went mental, it was also mentioned that the Holte was divided diagonally from one corner to the other with one half Villa the other half blues, is this correct? 

It is correct Kingthing, and I have written about it a few times before on this site.

Their main mob turned up really early: I remember a very large contingent marching past the bus I was on from the city centre chanting "Doc Doc Docherty Who the fucking hell  is he".  By the time our main characters turned up, they were ensconced on the left side at the back of the Holte in considerable numbers behind a substantial police presence. There were a few attempts to charge them, but it was too late.

They were singing we've the got the Holte End in our hands, and we were singing hiding behind the coppers. For the entire game, coins were being thrown and you could hear them pinging of the struts and stanchions of the stand. Everybody who had a hood wore it up and there were, not surprisingly, many  injuries. a

I knew "Skippy" quite well, as we went to the same primary school in Weoley Castle. Mouse was in the Quinton mob, if memory serves.

Would said Quinton mob contain members such as Ollie,Glyn and Phil (Revo) ?

[dave.woodhall]

What was one with Everton in 87 when they won the league? I don't think it was aggressive, more large numbers to see their team?

It was a big gate for that game well over 30,000 in a season when 18,000 was a decent turnout. They won 1-0 I think, they were scattered about other parts of Villa Park. Didn't hang about afterwards i was only a kid at the time so, my memory of the game is vague.

According to Everton the entire population of Merseyside & North Wales were there. Nobody has ever taken as many to an away game ever, according to Everton. Not even Wolves.

[Vancouver]

Even Port Vale came in The Holte.
If you want to see some of the 'faces' from the bottom right corner, go in the Souvenir Shop. On the wall to your right, as you walk in, is a picture. I know three of them.

First names?

[steamer]

In the 60,s I remember a game at Villa park(67-68 ?) with the Blues when they a had a large following on the Holte through out the game. The attendence was 50,00
Having said that I went to practicaly every game played between us and them until the end of the 70,s and we were never shy at having a go on the Tilton or the Kop which ever crappy end they claimed to own.
The funniest memory I have was us playing a pre season friendly at Villa Park against them, Trev the cloven hoofed one was their super star " super,super,super boy" Sir Brian was playing for us.
As Dave said, "crews" would come early, pay into the Holte and claim to have taken it.On this occasion ( I was still at school) stories abounded that they intended, taking the Holte.No social network but word of mouth.
A larger number than normal Villa boys took their positions at the top of the Holte early, ( any one remember skippy ?) the noses came in the bottom right witton lane at about 2.00.
As they moved up, charge of the Light Brigade time, Villa fans  swept down and chased them onto the pitch and back through the turnstiles.
As we moved back up in a victory march, I had a smack around the back of my head. it was my Dad.
I had to spend the rest of the game standing next to him and behave. Bless him. I wish he was still around.
I think we won 2-1 Anderson 2 cloven foot 1.
Many teams in my memory came early and "had a go"I do not remember many staying, to the contrary I remember Villa having teams in the Witton to welcome visitors.
Forest at Home in 78, we had some challenging moments in Nottingham earlier in the season, this with a history of them turning up when we played Notts County in Div 3 whetted a few appettites for revenge.
A large contingent, couple of Hundred, Villa fans were in the Witton before kick off. As they came in they were persuaded to leave.
I do not think that there was a hardly a Forest fan in the ground at kick off, they had all gone home early.
This is not glorifying what happened, just saying that at the time that is the way it was.

By Skippy do you mean the disabled skinhead who considered himself something of a leader in the late 60's early 70's? If so I do remember him.

The pre-season game was called 'the Lord Mayor's Cup' I have no idea why, I don't recall it being played before or since.  We did indeed win 2-1 with Willie announcing himself as a goal scoring winger. Excellent cross shot for the opener too.

As an aside, I was also at all the Rovers games played in third division times. I don't recall anything similar to the events described in the Hooligans book taking place.

If you didn't see the first League cup game at Eastville you certainly missed a cracker. Rovers had a very good side at the time, managed by Alec Stock. Pat McMahon scored in the opening minute of the first game as well as the final minute of the replay.

That was Skippy !
For me he is synonomous with Villa fans singing "two little boys"
wearing Hob Nailed boots and getting relegated.
Mousey is a strange one, in the late 60,s I was a young teenager who saw him at most games.He was certainly the leader of the teeny bopper brigade, he being older than most of us.
by the early 70,s as we all became a bit older he was a bit of a joke.
Strong memory of the Relegation game at the Sty in 1970, I was 13 and caught the train from coventry (where I had the misfortune to live)
to go to the game
I tagged onto a group of a couple of hundred Villa fans marching through Digbeth to the sty, Mousey was leading the pack, I thought we were invincibles, a bit like Sparticus !
When we got to the Kop, the Bluenoses had a team already inside and were on a clean up mission, all manner of crap, bricks, roofing etc, rained down on the Villa fans.
As a Sprite youngster I ducked under the turnstiles for cover.
Not sure what happened to Mousey, the Villa fans went every where until they got together again to have a go on the Tilton.
I have described that before.
Can not remember seeing Skippy after the first season in Div 3

[Pat McMahon]

You have a book in you, Steamer!

[Vancouver]

He may already be mentioned in that Heroes and Villians book. Are you Steamer??