Are we too critical?

[Rip Van We Go Again]

The most worrying thing yesterday was the total apathy amongst supporters.
A resignation that's disturbing.

The general mood seems to be  'We're shit, we're staying shit so we're just going to have to put up with it. McLeish is going nowhere and the chairman simply doesn't care anymore.'

[Rick_avfc]

I dont think we or should I say I, am being too critical.  Ive always said that i'd be happy with a midtable finish as we are in a transition and believed that the squad we had/have was enough to acheive that.  We are playing poor, poor football and most of the times, we are hoping the teams below us mess up to save us.  I think Mcleish is out of his depth here and should walk but he wont.

Villa park yesterday was the quietest it has been all season not to mention the lowest attendance as well.  This is probably a sign of things to come under the current regime

[PaulWinch again]

The most worrying thing yesterday was the total apathy amongst supporters.
A resignation that's disturbing.

The general mood seems to be  'We're shit, we're staying shit so we're just going to have to put up with it. McLeish is going nowhere and the chairman simply doesn't care anymore.'

I'd say that's pretty much bang on. I wonder if there are many clubs with more apathetic/disappointed fans than ours at the moment. This decline is completely board driven and they really don't have a clue.

[CJ]

Even Lawrenson acknowledged the mood of supporters on MOTD last night, saying the fans are getting 'disaffected' with the club

[AV82EC]

The Liverpool incident didn't actually bother me that much. The surrender against Money City really pissed me off though. I think he saw the bigger picture and could have moved us on to better things. There's no way we'd be in the situation we are now if he was still in charge.

Is the right answer.  In getting rid of him Lerner was playing to the crowd, playing the look at me and what big balls I've got, done entirely for the benefit of the boo boys who weren't happy at the Liverpool and Man City incidents  I was pretty pissed off myself at those incidents but I was willing to give the guy a chance and see what the summer would bring.

That's not true, though, is it?

The bloke spent the latter end of the season in hospital for a serious heart condition, which was the cause of his departure.

Fair point paulie, I suppose what I'm trying to say is Lerner acted in haste in removing him completely when a move upstairs to carry on his work may, admittedly in hindsight, have helped maintain some continuity.  That said there's no guarantee it would have worked or been a success especially if they'd carried on and appointed McLeish.   

I suppose another one to mark down under the "what might have been...."

[Merv]

How can we be too critical, considering the situation we are in?

The football's awful and insipid, the club is going nowhere, the manager is staying, crowds are falling. We'll stay up this season because the teams below us are even worse.

If we can't be unhappy at this, when can we?

[Concrete John]

The Liverpool incident didn't actually bother me that much. The surrender against Money City really pissed me off though. I think he saw the bigger picture and could have moved us on to better things. There's no way we'd be in the situation we are now if he was still in charge.

Is the right answer.  In getting rid of him Lerner was playing to the crowd, playing the look at me and what big balls I've got, done entirely for the benefit of the boo boys who weren't happy at the Liverpool and Man City incidents  I was pretty pissed off myself at those incidents but I was willing to give the guy a chance and see what the summer would bring.

That's not true, though, is it?

The bloke spent the latter end of the season in hospital for a serious heart condition, which was the cause of his departure.

Fair point paulie, I suppose what I'm trying to say is Lerner acted in haste in removing him completely when a move upstairs to carry on his work may, admittedly in hindsight, have helped maintain some continuity.  That said there's no guarantee it would have worked or been a success especially if they'd carried on and appointed McLeish.   

I suppose another one to mark down under the "what might have been...."

I'd have been happy for Houllier to take an upstairs role, but the bigger question is would Houllier?  It's not as easy as saying Randy should have offered him it, especially when you consider he left a similar job in France as he wanted to return to front line management.

[Monty]

Ultimately I feel sorry for Houllier. After a difficult season the fruits of his labours we beginning to come through, but his health problems made the prolongation of his tenure impossible. That must have been hard to take, but seeing what's happening at the club now, with that work essentially having been all for nothing - well, I would love to ask GH what he thinks now.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

How can we be too critical, considering the situation we are in?

The football's awful and insipid, the club is going nowhere, the manager is staying, crowds are falling. We'll stay up this season because the teams below us are even worse.

If we can't be unhappy at this, when can we?

One home win in five months. FIVE MONTHS.

The board and McLeish deserve every criticism thrown at them.

[Hookeysmith]

My criticism of Mcleish is that he has artificially lowered expectations. I feel certain that at that meeting in corsica he persuaded Randy we were certain to go down this season, and anything else would be a success. He has persuaded the players that a defensive draw is the best they can hope for. He has confected an air of crisis to insulate himself from blame. I support the club and support the team and want to support the manager but he makes it so hard when he is so pessimistic. I just don't believe we're as bad as he thinks.

100% nail hit on head - very well put

[Concrete John]

My criticism of Mcleish is that he has artificially lowered expectations. I feel certain that at that meeting in corsica he persuaded Randy we were certain to go down this season, and anything else would be a success. He has persuaded the players that a defensive draw is the best they can hope for. He has confected an air of crisis to insulate himself from blame. I support the club and support the team and want to support the manager but he makes it so hard when he is so pessimistic. I just don't believe we're as bad as he thinks.

100% nail hit on head - very well put

Say what you like about his outlook, he inherited a team that had just finished 9th, then had to sell his two most creative players and recuce the wage bill.

Maybe not a crisis, but definately a challenging set of working conditions.

Hence why I'm slower than some to put the boot in, as from a purely results perspective we shouldn't expect to be too many more places up the league.   

[Hookeysmith]

My criticism of Mcleish is that he has artificially lowered expectations. I feel certain that at that meeting in corsica he persuaded Randy we were certain to go down this season, and anything else would be a success. He has persuaded the players that a defensive draw is the best they can hope for. He has confected an air of crisis to insulate himself from blame. I support the club and support the team and want to support the manager but he makes it so hard when he is so pessimistic. I just don't believe we're as bad as he thinks.

100% nail hit on head - very well put

Say what you like about his outlook, he inherited a team that had just finished 9th, then had to sell his two most creative players and recuce the wage bill.

Maybe not a crisis, but definately a challenging set of working conditions.

Hence why I'm slower than some to put the boot in, as from a purely results perspective we shouldn't expect to be too many more places up the league.   

I disagree entirely - when he joined, even with the loss of Downing and Young he had man for man a better squad than he had at Blues yet over time he has transformed us into them. He has made the better players worse and unless we get a good coach in with some bottle and some tactical nous the great crop of youngsters will not progress with him at the helm.
When Weinmann scored that great goal on Monday i turned to a colleage and jokingly said "dont worry he will soon coach that out of him"

I cannot think of one player under his reign that has improved as a footballer - FFS he cannot even play them in the right positions to give them a chance

[Concrete John]

I disagree entirely - when he joined, even with the loss of Downing and Young he had man for man a better squad than he had at Blues yet over time he has transformed us into them. He has made the better players worse and unless we get a good coach in with some bottle and some tactical nous the great crop of youngsters will not progress with him at the helm.
When Weinmann scored that great goal on Monday i turned to a colleage and jokingly said "dont worry he will soon coach that out of him"

I cannot think of one player under his reign that has improved as a footballer - FFS he cannot even play them in the right positions to give them a chance

I think Herd has improved this season, whether or not AM had anything to do with that we can all decide for ourselves.

I'm not defending the job he has done, I also think he's been poor, but I will take that into context with the mandate he was handed by Randy.  I do think that if he's given the money to give the defemce a much needed revamp we'll see a better Villa team from him.  Not hugely entertaining, but more competitive and safer in the league.

[pauliewalnuts]

When the final whistle went last night, the reaction of pretty much every Villa fan was to sigh in resignation, as we'd thrown away two points at home to Stoke.

The reaction of the Aston Villa manager was to smile, clench a fist and wave excitedly at someone in the Trinity posh seats. He'd done well to hold on to a point at home to Stoke, he thought.

That comparison shows very well the problem with McLeish, and the reason he gets so much criticism.

Damon's point about lowering expectations is spot on.

[Risso]

The most worrying thing yesterday was the total apathy amongst supporters.
A resignation that's disturbing.

The general mood seems to be  'We're shit, we're staying shit so we're just going to have to put up with it. McLeish is going nowhere and the chairman simply doesn't care anymore.'

Which is why thousands obviously thought "bollocks to this, I'll stay at home or go shopping instead."