Are things really as bad as I feel they are?

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

He doesn't have to print money,appoint a decent manager would be a start.

It's about identifying the correct players as well. As I said on another thread if we had Tiote and Cabaye in centre mid it would make a massive difference, and it wouldn't have cost a fortune.

These.

I see other teams with players with a passion and genuine desire to play good stuff or doing a bloody good job for their team and I've never heard their names before. Our "names" seem to be just that and are simply not doing what they're paid to do, which includes taking abit of responsibility when things don't go well. Our "team" surrendered far too easily yesterday and a good number of the overpaid "athletes" should be ashamed of themselves.
Most of us on here can work it out that lumping high balls up to Bent and Gabby is shit. Why can't our so-called professionals? 

[KevinGage]

The stats about passes completed and shots on target are a real worry.  As people say we need a hero and a leader in the middle of the park.  I think we need to look hard at Herd and Clark to bring this passion to the middle.

On another note how bad will it have to get before Randy pulls the trigger?   Falling into the bottom 3 by Christmas?

Dunno. he rather went out on a limb appointing AM so he'd have to eat a very large slice of humble pie. Frankly i've got nowt against AM. He seems a genuine guy and he's been dealt a shitty hand by anyone's standard with the squad and the spending, but i can't see his football achieving a finish even as high as GH. If it turns into a huge messy seperation with the ABAM mob coming out the woodwork then the only person to blame will be Randy.

Or he could ditch Faulkner at the same time and make it clear where he thinks the blame lies.

I genuinely don't know the set up at VP (I'm not sure any of us do).   Is it RL calling the shots and Faulkner merely implementing what his boss requests?  Or does Faulkner have RL's ear?  Did he push for more autonomy vs a vis the O'Neill situation?  Did he push for the appointment of Houllier and then McLeish?  Were they his recommendations to an owner who might have a few 'knowledge gaps' ?   (I'll shy away from completely clueless-  he wasn't so clueless for the first four years, was he.)

[itbrvilla]

Frankmosswasmyuncle you raise good point. I think the clubs scouting network or lack of one is a real issue. I reccommend listening to the radio5 live sports special called  'scouting for goals' you can get it from the BBC  itunes or here 3rd August episode

[itbrvilla]

P.s. after listening to it, I realised that the club either (a) doesn't have a modern upto date system like our rival ( as well as many lesser clubs) , or (b) it has but doesn't use it.

[NeilH]

There is absolutely no doubt that the rushed appointment of Houllier and the disaster that was last season was a direct result of the spiteful departure of MON. He knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he enjoyed the fallout, as did his media chums.

However, when the club knew that Houllier could not reasonably carry on, we had a gilt edged chance to address the problem. Sure, we were never going to get Ancelotti, but the ranges of candidates were infinitely better than the first time of asking.

Now I’m not going to dredge up a topic that has been repeated ad infinitum since august, but I fail to see how the appointment of McLeish, the selling of our two best players and a failure to replace them with anything resembling quality can blamed on MON.

It just strikes me that the board has been determined to cut costs since MON departed and under McLeish they saw an opportunity to do this as quickly as possible, whilst still maintaining our status in the Premier League. As Dave W said, our attendances are plummeting but are in fact coming back to a level that most of us will recognise. I suspect the board has factored all of this in and despite repeated comments that they don’t know what they are doing, I think they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

[spirit of 82]

I,for one was not overly impressed with the choice of AM as manager,however villa are my team and i was prepared to give him a chance,but he complete lack of understanding that when you are reduced to 10 men means you have to hold on to the ball is alarming.The midfield needed to get hold of the game,so what does he do he brings heskey on ,a fish out of water who didnt break into a trot and had no impact on the game.Nzog was a complete pile of crap all game,and why he started i will never know.

Someone on the coaching staff must have said Hoof the ball forward at every opportunity,a plan that was doomed to fail,Bent is not a target man who will flick balls on.The whole team except dunne and given didnt seem to want to put a shift in.Chelsea showed how to play with reduced men,ok their players are better than ours,but if to hoof it forward is our only plan then we really are in trouble.

[ktvillan]

Or he could ditch Faulkner at the same time and make it clear where he thinks the blame lies.

I genuinely don't know the set up at VP (I'm not sure any of us do).   Is it RL calling the shots and Faulkner merely implementing what his boss requests?  Or does Faulkner have RL's ear?  Did he push for more autonomy vs a vis the O'Neill situation?  Did he push for the appointment of Houllier and then McLeish?  Were they his recommendations to an owner who might have a few 'knowledge gaps' ?   (I'll shy away from completely clueless-  he wasn't so clueless for the first four years, was he.)

Wasn't he?  He was handed MON on a plate who at the time was very highly sought after and regarded.  He then allowed MON far too much control which ultimately led to the need to make severe cutbacks now.  I'd put that in the clueless category to be frank.  Let's not forget RL didn't make his money he inherited it, and there's nothing to indicate he's even a canny business man let alone capable of running an institution in a sport about which he appears to know the cubed root of bugger all.

I'm treating this season as a hiatus, with the sole aim of staying in the PL and consolidating, allowing some expensive contracts to run down.  It would have been nice if we could have done so with a less defence-minded and a more technique oriented manager but there you go.  It's depressing but we don't have the squad, funds or manager to achieve much else.  Next season I would expect a bit of investment along the lines Newcastle did in the summer, some decent finds from abroad, not too pricey wages wise,  but they add a bit of technique and guile to the team.  If he thinks that long term we can rely on the youngsters coming through, I think we are in trouble, because some who were highly regarded do not appear to be cutting the mustard.   Doug tried it in the early 80s with the likes of Paul Kerr, Bernie Gallagher,  Robert Hopkins, Ivor Linton and Brendan Ormsby being over relied on and look where that ultimately led. 

[Merv]

Things aren't that bad, but I certainly feel a resigned acceptance about what lies ahead this season, and have done since the middle of July. We're simply treading water. I don't believe we'll go down, partly because there are a handful of clubs poorer than us and partly we still have just about enough quality to stay out of trouble, but I'm not expecting us to do much more than that.

And in that kind of situation, it's very hard to summon up much enthusiasm or be inspired by the team. One or two big wins (big as in either goals scored or against one of the top 4-6) would give everyone a lift but I'm not sure we've got that in us.

[eastie]

yes it is very depressing right now and the lack of leadership is concerning -i fear for where we are heading but have sympathy for mcleish as any manager would struggle with his best players being sold and not much being given to replace them, tough times ahead i fear, but the blame lies more at randys door for me.

[Fergal]

I also don't understand why Mcleish has already been labelled as clearly not up to the job? He's had 9 league games and we're currently 5th of 14 in our mini league. He's hardly in the same category as Steve Kean!

Are you kidding me? You're honestly saying we're now somehow 5th in this made up mini league? Come on....

And although Steve Kean is doing a poor job, he has no relegation on his C.V. He came to Blackburn around the same time when McLeish first came to Blues, but he didn't relegate Blackburn. McLeish did in his 2007/2008 season and he did it again last season. He is worse for sure. Us being above Blackburn means nothing at the moment because look how long Blackpool were above us last season until they droped into obvilion. With McLeish's laughable league record, we'll probably head the same way, but hopefully us fans will raise our concerns 10x more than the protest to put a stop to it.

That is what's wrong, aspiring to be 5th in a group of teams that have no hope... Football can kiss my arse.  Fuck it.

[levico]

I take the view that even with the selling off of our best players we still have a squad capable of staying in the PL - given a good enough manager. Unfortunately I don't think AM is good enough and I sincerely believe he is capable of achieving his 3rd relegation in 4 years.

[Concrete John]

I don't remember feeling this way about our club before. 
We seem to have an absent owner who is not in control.
We have sold our best players.
A squad that's as paper thin as any Dolly would have claimed ownership of.
A manager who  is clearly not up to the job.
Or am I just over reacting to things?

In truth, although there are some valid points raised in that, it always looks worse after a defeat.  Most of what you say was still true after we beat Wigan, yet things were looking better then as we had just won a game.

Despite everything that was poor on Saturday, it was a first really bad result this season, even though some of the performances haven't been all that great.  I'm prepared to give AM time to rectify things, but our biggest problem right now is not creating enough chances, which I don't think is his strength anyway.  As a side, we're really showing the loss of Young and Downing.

Purchaes wise he's also looking poor right now - Hutton looks average at best and N'Zogbia has been woeful.  And I give him very little credit for Given, as I think that deal was lined up before he arrived.  Never been a big Jenas fan either, but will reserve judgement until he plays for us.   

However, I do think we have enough good players that anything lower than mid-table would be failiure for him, but not enough that a European place is to be expected.  So, unless we look to be in serious relegation trouble I say let him get on with it and judge at the end of the season.   

[taylorsworkrate]

There is absolutely no doubt that the rushed appointment of Houllier and the disaster that was last season was a direct result of the spiteful departure of MON. He knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he enjoyed the fallout, as did his media chums.

However, when the club knew that Houllier could not reasonably carry on, we had a gilt edged chance to address the problem. Sure, we were never going to get Ancelotti, but the ranges of candidates were infinitely better than the first time of asking.

Now I’m not going to dredge up a topic that has been repeated ad infinitum since august, but I fail to see how the appointment of McLeish, the selling of our two best players and a failure to replace them with anything resembling quality can blamed on MON.

It just strikes me that the board has been determined to cut costs since MON departed and under McLeish they saw an opportunity to do this as quickly as possible, whilst still maintaining our status in the Premier League. As Dave W said, our attendances are plummeting but are in fact coming back to a level that most of us will recognise. I suspect the board has factored all of this in and despite repeated comments that they don’t know what they are doing, I think they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

Agree with all of this except the first sentence.  Houllier's appointment was hardly rushed, Kevin Mcdonald was in charge for a number of games.

[CJ]

After the Man City game many of us said that Citeh was pretty much a non-starter results-wise, and the better measure of where we are with AM would be the Baggies game. Unfortunately he came up short. No question that Herd's red card had an impact but the poor football, lack of fight and leadership, and persistence with Emile Heskey have got me worried. Other than Citeh, and maybe Everton (notoriously slow starters under Moyes) we've had an easy start and only beaten Wigan, Blackburn and Hereford.

I like McLeish as a person but was concerned when he was appointed - not because he used to manage our neighbours, but because of his record and brand of football. I've been willing to give him a chance because he's been dealt a crap hand - a team which flirted with relegation selling its flair players again, and with a remit to cut the wages. I've accepted this as a transitional season - sell the deadwood, keep us up, and rebuild based on a thin but decent squad including promising youngsters next year.

But if we don't get good results against Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, and maybe pick up a point at Spurs, I fear we'll be well in the mire come January. And given that we've so far failed to beat the likes of QPR, Wolves and Albion - yes, I'm worried

[pauliewalnuts]

But if we don't get good results against Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, and maybe pick up a point at Spurs, I fear we'll be well in the mire come January. And given that we've so far failed to beat the likes of QPR, Wolves and Albion - yes, I'm worried

I think we'll be in the mire come January and the chairman will be under pressure to put his hand in his pocket to strengthen the squad - a far less manageable, more expensive situation in the short window than in the summer.