woeful attendance

[dave.woodhall]

The General is showing his true colours now by not answering any difficult questions - just silence like his boss! All we got from RL was some half-assed statement about finance and balancing the books, nothing about team investment. These Americans haven't got a clue what to do next! Crowds will continue to dwindle as more players are sold or released. I just wish someone would buy RL out ( I know that's easier said than done) and put some serious investment and passion back into running the club.

Yes, because what's really been missing since the day Randy took over is investment.

Do you understand the difference between "equity" and "loan finance"?

Obviously not. After all, I'm not an accountant. Perhaps you could once again enlighten us.

[TimTheVillain]

It's NOT the 'McLeish Factor', it's the 'Man City Factor'.

That plus opportunity costs, plus openly saying we're a 'sell to buy' club.

We are where we are -  where Everton are, but their fans are getting better football to watch than us, maybe we should just be content and patient ( again).

But we never are (conent, I know I'm not)  - and we're the pride of Birmingham, the City is ours.

FFS, our Villa is just an average Prem football club, I've had therapy to be able to accept it ( well, self therapy).

Being a 'Villa addict' I go and watch the lads, and always will.

[Holtemeister]

Just popped into this thread and my view is that many have lost the love with football in general over the last decade .... Those that have remained steadfast or those hanging on by their finger nails because of the love for their club - Aston Villa.

For some of these the sacking / resignation / departure *delete as applicable was a kick in the nads..

for many the appointment of mcleish was the final straw....not just because of his past employers or his track record but because the fans didmy want him at their club.

The board / Randy ignored them as the fans realised that it isnt their club any more not that it ever was .. The love affair is over

[Chris Smith]

It's NOT the 'McLeish Factor', it's the 'Man City Factor'.

That plus opportunity costs, plus openly saying we're a 'sell to buy' club.

We are where we are -  where Everton are, but their fans are getting better football to watch than us, maybe we should just be content and patient ( again).

But we never are (conent, I know I'm not)  - and we're the pride of Birmingham, the City is ours.

FFS, our Villa is just an average Prem football club, I've had therapy to be able to accept it ( well, self therapy).

Being a 'Villa addict' I go and watch the lads, and always will.

That's the Everton who lost at home to QPR and only beat Blackburn, who we all know are crap, thanks to a dodgy last minute penalty after they'd had two missed against them.

[pauliewalnuts]

We are where we are -  where Everton are, but their fans are getting better football to watch than us, maybe we should just be content and patient ( again).

I'm no fan of dour football, I hated what MON dished us up at home for two years, and I don't like what AM had Small Heath playing, but it seems somewhat impatient to be judging the manager on the football he has us playing after three league matches.

[Fergal]

what was all that about? 30,000??

WTF did they expect? Sell our best players employ a manager who is known for producing dour low scoring teams.  Buy a couple of make weights.  Charge too much to get in, get a drink, get a meal and pay players thousands of pounds more than they are worth.  Seems like people are getting fed up with it all. (bit of a bank holiday pissed up rant)

[mistymopcap]

This has been a good discussion; for me it's not just about Villa but about the PL and the way it takes our game from us, the fans. The game is becoming boring because the league is uncompetitive. This season it could be a Manchester affair alone. In one of today’s 'papers is an interview with Platini (UEFA) who sees football in Europe generally in trouble for a variety of reasons. English football, he says, has become dominated by finance. He mentions the Barcelona way of fan owned clubs. I'd love to see it.

[pauliewalnuts]

This has been a good discussion; for me it's not just about Villa but about the PL and the way it takes our game from us, the fans. The game is becoming boring because the league is uncompetitive. This season it could be a Manchester affair alone. In one of today’s 'papers is an interview with Platini (UEFA) who sees football in Europe generally in trouble for a variety of reasons. English football, he says, has become dominated by finance. He mentions the Barcelona way of fan owned clubs. I'd love to see it.

I read that, and although I think he's right about finance and football, it made me laugh hearing him talk praisingly of Real Madrid (debts written off in convenient deals with the local council) and Barcelona, who have gigantic amounts of debt.

Then there's Spanish football as a whole which has a tax loop hole for footballers where they pay 23 percent tax, not the 43 percent the bod on the street would pay.

[garyfouroaks]

This isn’t just a Villa issue, the Baggies only got 23,000 for the Staffs Derby against a strong and successful Stoke side.

The football fan is becoming increasingly marginalised in profile. I have a working teenage son, he doesn’t earn a lot, it would have been nice to take him to the game and watch from a decent seat,at £43 a throw, a bit of parking, petrol, H&V/ Programme, pie and a pint that’s a £100 afternoons entertainment to watch  a Villa side without our two best players of last season run by a  a manger charged with reducing player numbers and costs against a Wolves side with no stars who will be happy simply to survive. Is that a £100 afternoon out?

Ourselves, Newcastle, Everton and Spurs have throw in the towel trying to crack the top four ( and i don’t blame Randy). Bluntly, we and they can afford to reduce squad sizes and wage bills – and not suffer too much as a result as TV/Prize money continues to rise.

Man City can field  three front pairings before you get to something comparable to us. We may be getting to a stage where fans start to give even matches against the Top Four a miss if it becomes a Turkey shoot.
Even Liverpool who have gone large  in their pursuit of the CL this season are effectively going for Arsenal’s  spot only.
Expect many more disappointing attendances.

[hipkiss92]

Has anyone pointed out that for the first time in at least 10-15 years tickets have been available at Old Trafford the day before the game. Everyone's attendances are dropping, more a result of recession/disillusionment with football in general imo. OUrs are just being exacerbated by last season's form.

[hawkeye]

The General is showing his true colours now by not answering any difficult questions - just silence like his boss! All we got from RL was some half-assed statement about finance and balancing the books, nothing about team investment. These Americans haven't got a clue what to do next! Crowds will continue to dwindle as more players are sold or released. I just wish someone would buy RL out ( I know that's easier said than done) and put some serious investment and passion back into running the club.

Yes, because what's really been missing since the day Randy took over is investment.

Do you understand the difference between "equity" and "loan finance"?

Risso, what difference does it make? the money comes from RL sources, the main difference is that he can charge interest on the loans, or potentialy refinance them but its technicaly his / his trusts money anyway. It is not in his interest to repay the loans and starve the business of cash.

[nepal_villan]

Even bottom sides in the Bundesliga average close to 40,000 a match. Think it is not really about results and more the corporate nature of English clubs and fans feeling disenfranchised.

Here's a good article on the topic:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/apr/11/bundesliga-premier-league

[richard moore]

This isn’t just a Villa issue, the Baggies only got 23,000 for the Staffs Derby against a strong and successful Stoke side.

The football fan is becoming increasingly marginalised in profile. I have a working teenage son, he doesn’t earn a lot, it would have been nice to take him to the game and watch from a decent seat,at £43 a throw, a bit of parking, petrol, H&V/ Programme, pie and a pint that’s a £100 afternoons entertainment to watch  a Villa side without our two best players of last season run by a  a manger charged with reducing player numbers and costs against a Wolves side with no stars who will be happy simply to survive. Is that a £100 afternoon out?

Ourselves, Newcastle, Everton and Spurs have throw in the towel trying to crack the top four ( and i don’t blame Randy). Bluntly, we and they can afford to reduce squad sizes and wage bills – and not suffer too much as a result as TV/Prize money continues to rise.

Man City can field  three front pairings before you get to something comparable to us. We may be getting to a stage where fans start to give even matches against the Top Four a miss if it becomes a Turkey shoot.
Even Liverpool who have gone large  in their pursuit of the CL this season are effectively going for Arsenal’s  spot only.
Expect many more disappointing attendances.

Excellent synopsis. Liverpool are just a slightly upgraded version of us from about 2 or 3 years ago. They have bought some decent'ish players for way over the odds because that is the only way they can get from their starting position, they won't in my opinion make the CL and then the one or two who do make a name for themselves meantimes such as Suarez will be itching for moves to bigger money and CL clubs. Same with Spurs. Modric will be gone within the year, Bale will follow him next season, Van Der Vaart looks to me like he isn't going to stay that long and Parker and Adebayor are very temporary sticking plasters to a much more deep seated problem for us all. It would be so funny to see Chelsea also join the ranks of also rans given the depth of my loathing for them...

[Chris Smith]

Richard, if not Liverpool then who? The team that lst 8-2 yesterday or the one that lost 5-1?

[richard moore]

Richard, if not Liverpool then who? The team that lst 8-2 yesterday or the one that lost 5-1?

Well, fair point Chris. I think we can assume that Manchester x 2 and Chelsea will occupy the top three places in some order and apologies for stating the bleedin' obvious. It does then have to be one of the other three and I suspect it will still be Arsenal despite all the current turmoil. Or perhaps I just hope it will be and am letting that colour my judgement...certainly, at the moment, I think the analogy with us a couple of years back is a good one as they have a chance of finishing in the CL places and there is an expectation within the club that they can, rather than perhaps they will...