Barclays Asia Trophy (27th-30th July 2011)

[Percy McCarthy]

Lets not start sucking each other's cocks yet.

But I bought you a pint. You tease.

Oh go on then, you've talked me into it.

I'm pitching though, not catching.

[The Laughing Policeman]

Did anyone else do a double take when they saw the name Formica on the back of one of their shirts?
I thought the sponsors name was supposed to be on the front of the shirt.
Surely someone on here can come up with a chant or song for him ready for when we play them in August.

[john e]

i dont agree totally with this'must have ball winning tough nut' myth,

 we have players who can win the ball in Delph and Bannan etc, i dont see the great ball winner for Man Utd and they won the league, or Arsenal, Spurs had Pallicious but he didnt play in a lot of games because he is limited to just that, winning the ball and sod all else

maybe someone like Essien in his pomp, but we are no way going to be able to afford that calibre of player at the moment,
and if we want another NRC then its a big No Thanks from me, we are a lot better team without him. we wont be able to afford a really good one, so i dont want a average one.

we had plenty of the ball today, without an 'Enforcer'

what i'm saying is we want players who can do something with the ball when we have it, rather than flying in with tackles and then nothing.

to be honest all the talk of a must need enforcer is for me about 30 years out of date, and just gets swallowed as some sort of fact when its really just a load of bollocks,
get good players who can keep the ball, you wont need to go all over the pitch as much trying to win it back

[Concrete John]

5th or 6h will be very difficult, it will mean finishing above Liverpool and or Spurs.  When you look at players of the calibre of Gerrard, Suarez, Van Der Vaart, Modric, Bale, we are some way short of these two currently.

I really think Spurs will get badly affected by the Europa League. It will be a lot more games, and they'll be playing Thursday/Sunday which as we found out is shit. Liverpool, if they get going will do well, I agree. Both are good teams which is why I'd see 7th or 8th as realistic. You never know how a bit of confidence or a certain signing may shift the balance though.

I know there are a lot of 'ifs' to our side at the moment, but man for man who is really better than us?  For me nobody, otyher than those top 6 sides.  And even then I think Liverpool have vastly overspent on what they've bought and Spurs badly lack a striker.  If on form, our defence is better than either of theirs aswell.

So I think 7th is a relaistic and attainable target.   

[citizenDJ]

to be honest all the talk of a must need enforcer is for me about 30 years out of date, and just gets swallowed as some sort of fact when its really just a load of bollocks,
get good players who can keep the ball, you wont need to go all over the pitch as much trying to win it back

I don't think it's out of date at all. You've almost made the argument for it yourself there - good players who keep the ball. We don't really excel in that department at the moment, although Makoun looks like he might improve things in that area. And it's not as though Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea etc don't have good tacklers, either; they do, but they happen to be outstanding midfielders who can 'do it all'. Those types of players cost lots and lots of money, and we don't have it. So, we make a midfield of component parts to cover each role.

In my opinion, a midfield of Petrov, Makoun and Ireland, while technically good, will be walked through with ease by any decent team.

It's not old fashioned, it's common sense.

[john e]

to be honest all the talk of a must need enforcer is for me about 30 years out of date, and just gets swallowed as some sort of fact when its really just a load of bollocks,
get good players who can keep the ball, you wont need to go all over the pitch as much trying to win it back

I don't think it's out of date at all. You've almost made the argument for it yourself there - good players who keep the ball. We don't really excel in that department at the moment, although Makoun looks like he might improve things in that area. And it's not as though Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea etc don't have good tacklers, either; they do, but they happen to be outstanding midfielders who can 'do it all'. Those types of players cost lots and lots of money, and we don't have it. So, we make a midfield of component parts to cover each role.

In my opinion, a midfield of Petrov, Makoun and Ireland, while technically good, will be walked through with ease by any decent team.

It's not old fashioned, it's common sense.

you wouldnt have a midfield of Petrov Ireland and Macoun though would you,  we have Bannan Clarke Delph who can all tackle,
you cant just dream up your own midfield to make a point, we have some very good players in that department, if your gona argue your case at least be fair minded about it

one of the biggest myths i hear on here is the 'they will walk through our midfield at will'  i didnt see it when Bannan and Hogg were bossing the midfield last season against the soon to be Champions

to take the Man Utd point, who is it then ? where is he since Keene left ?
from what i see they take a team work ethic and putt pressure on players by not giving them any time on the ball, see also Barcalona,
 most tackles are given as fouls anyway nowadays, maybe 30 years ago when the likes of Souness roamed about.
they are not needed now, it has to be done by the team as a whole

so sorry mate, i think its verry old fashioned, scot parker would be a good addition not because he can just win the ball but because he is a good player anyway and does loads more things than just being combative, which to be honest isnt what he's all about anyway

i put the flags up when NRC left, he was the sort of player who can hold a team back, we dont need another

[Mazrim]

Some convincing points, john.

[Holtenderinthesky]

Chelsea have thumped the locals 4-0 and so we will play them in Saturday's final.  Let's see how confident we all are after that game, hopefully we can beat them and keep the run going.

[citizenDJ]

Well, I'm not sure where I haven't been 'fair-minded', and I haven't just 'made up' the midfield; do you think it likely that Bannan (and I don't really see him as a ball-winner, in truth) or Clarke are going to start in our midfield? That seems more fanciful than my guess. Delph can tackle, up to a point; he tends to be somewhat reckless, although I hope that he can improve on that as I think he could be a very good player for us.

As for 'myths', the one about Hogg and Bannan bossing the Man Utd team is the equal of any! They did very well, true, but they hardly controlled the game, did they?

I agree about the whole team ethic, though, and especially about Parker.

[pooligan]

A good solid display in difficult conditions. We looked like a side that is going to be hard to beat which i think most of us expect under Mcleish.Was good to see the likes of Dunne and Warnock back to something like they were when they first arrived.

[Risso]

Hogg's about the only midfielder we have who looks like a naturally aggressive midfielder, however I have to say that he's also probably the least likely of the young midfielders to get a game this season.  We really are crying out for somebody like Scott Parker.  Which ever formation we play, he just looks like the perfect player for us.  He's certainly the best "complete" midfielder out there without spending upwards of £15m.

[pedro25]

5th or 6h will be very difficult, it will mean finishing above Liverpool and or Spurs.  When you look at players of the calibre of Gerrard, Suarez, Van Der Vaart, Modric, Bale, we are some way short of these two currently.

I really think Spurs will get badly affected by the Europa League. It will be a lot more games, and they'll be playing Thursday/Sunday which as we found out is shit. Liverpool, if they get going will do well, I agree. Both are good teams which is why I'd see 7th or 8th as realistic. You never know how a bit of confidence or a certain signing may shift the balance though.

I know there are a lot of 'ifs' to our side at the moment, but man for man who is really better than us?  For me nobody, otyher than those top 6 sides.  And even then I think Liverpool have vastly overspent on what they've bought and Spurs badly lack a striker.  If on form, our defence is better than either of theirs aswell.

So I think 7th is a relaistic and attainable target.   

Even with our centre forward being superior to theirs, I think I'd take Everton's squad over ours at the moment, Rodwell, Jagielka, Felliani, Cahill, Arteta, good players, although they are lacking a winger and a centre forward,  Maybe I change my mind, we are probably on a par with them man for man.

I agree no need for a midfield enforcer, just quality ball players, Spurs play Huddlestone and Modric, Utd Carrick and Giggs, Arsenal Fabregas and Wilshere, no enforcers there.

[Mazrim]

Delph (especially) and Herd are also aggresive midfieders.

[Concrete John]

Even with our centre forward being superior to theirs, I think I'd take Everton's squad over ours at the moment, Rodwell, Jagielka, Felliani, Cahill, Arteta, good players, although they are lacking a winger and a centre forward,  Maybe I change my mind, we are probably on a par with them man for man.

I wouldn't overly argue that we're on a par with them.  They have some areas they're better in - Fellaini is axactly what our midfield needs, IMO.  But defensively there's no much in it and we have better forwards.

[Merv]

Not about a ball-winning, tough-tackling midfielder for me. We need someone who's going to run a game from midfield. Don't see that we have that player; Petrov in spurts, Makoun has potential and is neat and tidy, Delph promising but still a wee bit raw and reckless (I'm desperate for him to stay injury free so he gets a full season). Bannan's great on the ball, not going to dominate a game though and can't see him occupying one of the two central midfield berths; he'll be an option for the attacking role behind the front three, contesting it with Ireland.