Board must take its share of the blame - General C Krulak

[Dante Lavelli]

Once we have a scouting network, how much work does it need to oversee on a day to day basis, for example?

It's a good point but not one that I would hold against Houllier who is 63 (or something like that).  If he did the role for seven years then that would take him up to the age of 70.  It would still be a pretty demanding role.

I agree with Mazrim we need some sort of footballing know how higher up in the club than the team manager.  This will protect us when the next manager/coach leaves and also help us build an over all infrastructure.

The potential conflict between the new manager and Dof should be minimal because the manger appointment will have been made with the Dof incumbent in his role. 
 

[Mazrim]

I also see no reason for this focusing on what is basically a cliche. That a DOF or Technical director (DOF is a silly title) would interfere with and be at odds with a manager.
Why would he? How would this manifest itself?

What manager worth his salt wouldn't make best use of all the resources at his command? That's all the role I'm suggesting would focus on doing, providing the club with the best chance of getting the best players it can.
So say, for arguments sake, that Houllier became this Technical director and Moyes was appointed manager because they get on and Houllier recommended him to the board.
Then Houllier goes off and sets up Villa academies and centres of excellence here there and everywhere, organises a top scouting network (that we haven't had for years), feeder clubs, partnerships and so on. Meanwhile Moyes takes over first team duties and concentrates on that, as a manager should.

Then, in a few months, a year, a few years or whatever, Houllier or his staff starts coming to Moyes with recommendations for players they've found and/or developed and he has the chance to acquire them or use them in the first team, how can that be a bad thing? Its not telling a manager how to play and who to pick, its just making his life easier by providing a depth of resources he can call on.

The manager wouldn't report to him. He'd report to the CEO and Chairman as is usual, but he'd work with the Technical director.
You can argue that Houllier isn't the man for the job and that's fair enough although I think he'd excel at it, but I would argue we certainly we need somebody to do that job and we already have Houllier so let's give it a go.

[Concrete John]

Exactly.  I think we have a really good asset in GH in finding players and building scout networks etc.  We just need a proven manager who is willing to work in this system should we decide this is the way forward.

That, to me, screams 'overseas manager'.

It screams to me "young, up and coming Manager who will be grateful for getting such a big job and would be happy to have the old fella peering over their shoulder".  Paul Lambert, Simon Grayson types.  I'd hope we would go for a more experienced Premier League Manager.

Interesting spin on the recent General K VT entry from the Dail Mail and Sunday Mail, they say Randy Lerner is taking the blame.  Rags, absolute rags.

The whole DOF (or whatever title you give it) and manager model has never really worked in this country.  For me, the reason why this is is that a British manager WANTS to be in charge of everything, as that's the way their managers were when they were playing.  Rightly or wrongly, the general feeling amongst some managers would be that the guy 'upstairs' would interfere.  Hence I think it works better with an overseas manager who is used to and comfortable with the set up.

In many ways, Houllier is well suited to this role, but I fear having him doing it would once again limit our options to who we could appoint to the most important job.  Ideally, I'd like to think we're sounding out candidates now and asking them if they like the idea.  If the man we go for says 'no' then I'm afraid it's bye bye Gezza and we can't let ANYTHING get in the way of appointing the right manager this time.

[Meanwood Villa]

Directors of football rarely work. Why we'd want to appoint a manager who's just presided over our worst season in a decade and a half (pending poor results in last 3 games) as one I don't know.

[kipeye]

I'm sure Mourinhio will be happy to work with Ged upstairs, I think he's packed his bags for B6 already.

[Mazrim]

Right, I'm off to take a good long piss into a strong breeze.

[Merv]

I can see the benefit of having a 'football man' involved at board level; we've often bemoaned the lack of that kind of individual - with all due and genuine respect to Randy, the General and Paul Faulkner, they don't have the same kind of background and although they bring a great deal of knowledge to the table and have done lots of good for the club, there's perhaps a gap there for someone like GH.

Less of a role in first team affairs, more of development - replicating, perhaps, the approach Arsenal have taken under Wenger with scouting, establishing the club internationally, etc. I'd imagine Houllier could open a lot of doors for us - very well known within European football, and worldwide.

[Mazrim]

By Jove, I think he's got it!

[andrew08]

It's good of the board to take its share of the blame for the late delivery of the kit but what else has it done wrong ? The club is vastly better off the pitch than when it was purchased. The Acorns example alone should give Randy the freedom of the City, how many Villa fans when doing anything to do with charity instinctively now do it for Acorns. I know of many,including people on here.

On the footy side he has bankrolled player purchases way beyond anything that went on before. Under Doug (and he's one of us I know but he does suffer by comparison) the light bulbs would have been taken out in January in preparation for relegation, what did Randy do ? Darren Bent.

No blame lies with us the fans we still turn up in numbers home and away. If it was available in time we would have purchased the kit as well.

A small portion of the blame in my opinion lies with initially MON who should have walked in May and an out of his depth Kevin Mac who killed the season before we got going.

Ged has had his share of gaffes as well but the fingers really should be pointed at the players. The best resourced squad in our history earning the highest wages we've ever paid have produced the worst performances for a generation. Overwight smokers, players refusing to play, refusing to move home, hitting coaches, slagging off the city we come from, ducking tackles that our children would make for the club.

I never thought I'd say this about players who play for our Aston Villa , but I really do hate some of our team right now.

[Hookeysmith]

It's good of the board to take its share of the blame for the late delivery of the kit but what else has it done wrong ? The club is vastly better off the pitch than when it was purchased. The Acorns example alone should give Randy the freedom of the City, how many Villa fans when doing anything to do with charity instinctively now do it for Acorns. I know of many,including people on here.

On the footy side he has bankrolled player purchases way beyond anything that went on before. Under Doug (and he's one of us I know but he does suffer by comparison) the light bulbs would have been taken out in January in preparation for relegation, what did Randy do ? Darren Bent.

No blame lies with us the fans we still turn up in numbers home and away. If it was available in time we would have purchased the kit as well.

A small portion of the blame in my opinion lies with initially MON who should have walked in May and an out of his depth Kevin Mac who killed the season before we got going.

Ged has had his share of gaffes as well but the fingers really should be pointed at the players. The best resourced squad in our history earning the highest wages we've ever paid have produced the worst performances for a generation. Overwight smokers, players refusing to play, refusing to move home, hitting coaches, slagging off the city we come from, ducking tackles that our children would make for the club.

I never thought I'd say this about players who play for our Aston Villa , but I really do hate some of our team right now.

Big clappy thing - exactly my sentiments

[Meanwood Villa]

I can see the benefit of having a 'football man' involved at board level; we've often bemoaned the lack of that kind of individual - with all due and genuine respect to Randy, the General and Paul Faulkner, they don't have the same kind of background and although they bring a great deal of knowledge to the table and have done lots of good for the club, there's perhaps a gap there for someone like GH.

Less of a role in first team affairs, more of development - replicating, perhaps, the approach Arsenal have taken under Wenger with scouting, establishing the club internationally, etc. I'd imagine Houllier could open a lot of doors for us - very well known within European football, and worldwide.

The benefit of a football man is dependent on who that football man is really. Houllier has been crap for us so why give him another job?
If we're comparing with Arsenal enlighten me on who their director of football is? As far as I'm aware the plus points you mention are as a result of Wenger, ie the manager. In my opinion what we need is Houllier out of the club completely and a decent manager to come in and do what decent managers do.

[Merv]

By Jove, I think he's got it!

Just ducked my head into this thread and it looked as if you needed a bit of support with this one

[Merv]

The benefit of a football man is dependent on who that football man is really. Houllier has been crap for us so why give him another job?
If we're comparing with Arsenal enlighten me on who their director of football is? As far as I'm aware the plus points you mention are as a result of Wenger, ie the manager. In my opinion what we need is Houllier out of the club completely and a decent manager to come in and do what decent managers do.

Absolutely, of course it depends on the calibre of that football man... you wouldn't put a (nothing personal, Steve) Steve Claridge in there. You'd want someone with a strong reputation in the wider world of football in there, someone with universal respect, a good track record, excellent contacts, an ambassador as well. I think Houllier would be good at this. Dare I say it, this is perhaps the type of role we could have used Sir Graham in.

When Houllier arrived at the club, my reservations about him all concerned his ability to step into the PL as a manager again, whether he'd be up to it. All the plus points I thought he'd bring with him would be suited to the role that's been suggested by some on here. He hasn't been 'crap' - he's signed one or two players the previous regime probably/perhaps wouldn't have done, he's implemented a new training approach, he's established an excellent rapport with the younger players. He hasn't been a hit in terms of results. I haven't been totally surprised by that.

I just wonder.. does he have something to offer the club, away from being manager? I think he does. It's not a sympathetic 'find him a job' stance. But perhaps it's the opportunity to introduce something new to the club that's needed; perhaps having Houllier involved at some level could give us a vital advantage over many of our rivals when it comes to discovering and recruiting European players - a real weak spot of ours in recent years (or forever). Maybe Arsenal wouldn't have the free rein over France's best young prospects, then.

As for Arsenal's director of football, then as far as I know, they don't have one. Wenger does the lot - he's had 15 years to build the club up, on and off the field, but we're talking about one of the outstanding coaches/visionaries in European football here (IMO). There's undoubtedly a well-constructed back-room, coaching and academy set-up to complement all of Wenger's work, of course, and I'm sure it extends much further back then Pat Rice, the fella we see sitting on the dug out.

I think Houllier assist us in replicating some of Arsenal's approach. We haven't got a Wenger, and we're not likely to get a Wenger anytime soon. But Houllier has got that standing in the game. Outside of the PL and the UK, we need to do more - here's a man who could start that process. I think, at least.

[Mazrim]

Merv rides a horse called sense.

[PaulTheVillan]

Good posts by andrew08 & Merv.