In that alternative universe....

[KevinGage]

I dont know where we'd be but judging by how lacklustre, disinterested and shabby we looked in pre season, players and manager, we'd probably have struggled so I cant imagine we'd be much better off, if at all.

There isnt a chance in hell we would have made the top 6. He wouldn't have bought Bent with the money Houllier had, more like Keane and McGeady.
Oh and he'd probably have given Carew a new £80k a week contract until he was 36.

I don't buy that from you Maz. Come on, you're never anything but positive about the team and club. I'm not arsed trawling back through old posts but I'm sure a week before the season started you were confident that we'd at least do as well as last season and even after Milner going you would have been waxing lyrical at who we could buy with the money and how good Ireland could be.

You constantly talk us up and I'm glad you (and Chrismith to an extent) do because most of us are far too much the other way.

I must say I don't recall too many posts predicting doom, catastrophe and struggle prior to MON walking out either.

I'm sure there were the usual sorts anxious about our lack of transfer dealings up to that point. And many more telling them not to worry about it, had history taught us nothing/ so long as we have the right players on board by Sept 1st and so on.

This was the season that Bannan and Albrighton were tipped to breakthrough, the latter's form in particular being very encouraging pre season. We had a few iffy results, losing in Ireland and getting mauled by Benfica in particular. But against decent results against Feyenoord and Valencia.  Not that you can ever judge the thing firmly on results in that period as it's all about match fitness. The only player who gave any kind of concern in that regard was Dunne.

[Brian Taylor]

I know we would not be in the top 4 but then I also know wherever we were the fabbase would not be happy about it.
The only thing I like is Villa winning and the only place that happens a lot is in dreamworld at the moment.

[darren woolley]

I would have to say we would be top half and we wouldn't have seen the likes of Albrighton,Clarke, or Bannan and i reckon we wouldn't have Bent here.

[Mazrim]

I dont know where we'd be but judging by how lacklustre, disinterested and shabby we looked in pre season, players and manager, we'd probably have struggled so I cant imagine we'd be much better off, if at all.

There isnt a chance in hell we would have made the top 6. He wouldn't have bought Bent with the money Houllier had, more like Keane and McGeady.
Oh and he'd probably have given Carew a new £80k a week contract until he was 36.

I don't buy that from you Maz. Come on, you're never anything but positive about the team and club. I'm not arsed trawling back through old posts but I'm sure a week before the season started you were confident that we'd at least do as well as last season and even after Milner going you would have been waxing lyrical at who we could buy with the money and how good Ireland could be.

You constantly talk us up and I'm glad you (and Chrismith to an extent) do because most of us are far too much the other way.

It's true that I like to remain chipper whenever possible, but the preseason worried me probably more than I let on. I cant remember what I said at the time but that's certainly how I felt, I assure you. My brother first raised the concerns about body language and certain other things and I dismissed it as rustiness at first but then when it didn't improve I started to be concerned.
I'm no happy clapping fool by proxy. When there is genuine cause for concern, I feel them.

You're right about me being optimistic once he'd gone. It was like a cloud had been lifted. I was a long time admirer of MacDonald and Ireland and after putting West Ham to the sword in such swashbuckling fashion I had cause for optimism as most of us did I think. But it was a bit unrealistic in hindsight. None of us knew the extent of the unrest and turmoil that was to come with the injuries, behind the scenes troubles and lack of proper preparation in the summer in every respect; fitness, tactics, sales and purchases... etc

This season has been one big turd but for all the reasons I stated above, it was going to be with MON in charge too.
I just dont see what he would have done to avoid it and in fact it was largely his doing. I was a supporter of his but hold him almost entirely responsible for our current plight.
I think it's odd that fans are wandering how much better it would have been with MON in charge when its mostly his fault that we're struggling. His players, his waste of resources, his lack of preparation and ultimately his lack of respect and consideration for Aston Villa, its fans and its owner. Maybe I'm being harsh but that's how I feel.

I dont want to get embroilled in another long-winded debate on it though as it's been done to death and back again.
I'm no Houllier apologist either. He's certainly made his mistakes but I appreciate the difficulty he's had to face too. Not that I wanted him for the position in the first place.
You always hope a new manager will come in and have a dramatic positive impact but I wonder what anybody could have done with the mess we were in, which was, I'd wager, far worse than anybody suspected.

[ktvillan]

I was predicting 7th or 8th before O'Neill left.  I thought we would go slightly backwards, based on the fact that possibly only Keane and McGeady were predicted to come in, and maybe not even them if the money was dependent on O'Neill shifting a few out.   And the other PL teams not being that good. 

But O'Neill never had to deal with an injury crisis on the scale we had this season and I'm not sure motivation alone would have seen us through that stage.   I still think we'd have been safe by now and probably aiming for 9th or 10th place.  But fuck him, I'm glad he's gone.

[Concrete John]

Two things to those of you saying we would have similarly struggled and/or only been midtable with MON:-
1.  When we've previously been debating his ability to get us to 4th, someone came up with the very valid point that aslong as he continually fails to do so, it must raise increasing doubts that he ever will.  As I said - a valid point.  But surely the same goes in reverse that after 3 successive 6th place finishes we can't immediately write off his chances of doing it again?
2.  Each year we seemed to not rate his signings and predict a slump from where we were the previous year, as a lot of you are saying would have happened in this hypothetical scenario, yet each year we improved our points total and made progress.

It is of course impossible to know and very difficult to guess at given the strange nature of this season, both for us and the league as a whole, but the sheer fact we would have had a more competitive game mentality and greater organization is worth the sort of points difference that would leave us somewhere around 6th with Spurs and Liverpool, IMO. 

[Mazrim]

I dont think that is a sheer fact. Its supposition at best and based on what I saw in preseason, culminating in him walking out, not much behind it either.
But you're right it's all hypothetical now. You cant "prove" anything in this type of scenario.

[not3bad]

Each year we seemed to not rate his signings and predict a slump from where we were the previous year

That generalisation does not work.  OK it was true of some people but there were just as many who were talking his signings up.  And for every Marlon Harewood or Zat Knight or Richard Dunne, about which there were doubts, there was a James Milner or a Carlos Cuellar or, yes, a Steve Sidwell, about which great things were anticipated.

[Concrete John]

There were plenty of detractors of the Milner signing - especially at £12m!

[not3bad]

Maybe there were detractors but I think if you go back to the threads around the time he signed you'll find the great majority reacted very positively.