The future of Houllier and McAllister?

[davevillan]

Let's be clear. Yes good result today  and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff)  as early as possible  after the season ends.

Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.

Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.

Other plus points, the emergence of Albrighton and Clark. Downing has improved (though I still wouldnt be his biggest fan). Nothing else to be enthused about from an awful season from start to finish.

If, and i accept its a big if at the moment, GH stays. Then, when we start next season, it will be with his players, who want to play for him. That alone should dictate that we have a much better season. The ones who leave will be the ones he wants to go ( will the exception of Ash).

[TonyD]

Unlucky defeats aside we have been very poor this season.  Today was a good day, let us enjoy it.  But next season look forward to a new management team at VP.

UTV

[Greg N'Ash]

Let's be clear. Yes good result today  and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff)  as early as possible  after the season ends.

Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.

Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.

so on the one hand you acknowledge that Bent can score 20+ plus goals a season and has kept us up and yet you don't want to risk Houllier getting his own team in and buying similar players this summer. hmmm....

[Mazrim]

I know, what a load of cockflume!

[Dante Lavelli]

We should be in the top 8. There are only 6 clubs that, on paper, have better squads than us.

Thinking out loud...

1. Man U
2. Chelsea
3. Arsenal
4. Man City
5. Liverpool
6. Spurs
7. Everton

I'd put us level with Everton to be honest if the game was played "on paper"  Then you have to add in our injuries and the fact there is a strong possibility that the players were under prepared for the season.  Based on that I'd say around 10 to 15 was par for the season.  Any position less I suppose is the responsibility of Houllier and Co.

Taking this back on topic (ignoring the 4 or so recent pages I have not read), one of my biggest worries is the lack of feel good factor around the club.  Regardless of how bad we are, or how good Houllier might be, there is a malaise about the club. 

The quickest - arguably the cheapest - way to change that would be to get a new manager.  He might be a less talented manger than Houllier but the perception of the fans is crucial and I think Houllier may have alienated too many people.

[brontebilly]

Let's be clear. Yes good result today  and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff)  as early as possible  after the season ends.

Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.

Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.

so on the one hand you acknowledge that Bent can score 20+ plus goals a season and has kept us up and yet you don't want to risk Houllier getting his own team in and buying similar players this summer. hmmm....

a truly ridiculous point

A forward scoring 20 goals a season doesnt guarantee a good league position. We banged in a heap of goals in the first season we finished 6th but Carew topscored on 13. Gabby and Carew banged in 33 between them last season so despite Bent's heroics we are way down with our forward players this term.

Houllier has also bought Makoun with whom the jury is still out. That is, if you want to solely judge a manager's ability to manage on players he has brought in.

As we all should know, being a manager is a lot more than about just signing players (your patronising tone suggests that you may fail to get this crucial point). Houllier cant manage players, seemingly has zero tactical appreciation and is an expensive liability. He has alienated fans, players and made the club a laughing stock with his actions. Furthermore AVFC is not a charity, Houllier and GMac dont come cheap. Lets not feel sorry for them (bar hoping Houllier's health is ok). This season has been a disaster, the worst I can remember in nearly 20 years. We had low seasons before in that time but with poor squads. This is a squad minus 1 that got 64 points last season and 2 wembley appearances.

I can only hope the result against Arsenal doesnt cover for what has been a truly awful season. 45 points sums it up well and our best player wants out. Our best midfielder imo also is available to leave for free.

No way should Houllier be given further time. He isnt up to it and it isnt worth changing around 10 players for him to further prove that point. I cant help thinking that those who want to give him further time are those that welcomed his appointment and dont wish to be proved wrong. 45 points this season is evidence that a change is needed and quick.

[Greg N'Ash]

erm..........our best player wanted to leave last season. And did. And the season before. So i wouldn't put Young's  expected departure too heavily at the door of the manager

The jury is, i agree out on Makoun but i've seen enough to suggest he's a good player who will improve given time. As will Walker if we buy him

Of who's left, the youngsters are generally thought to  enjoy playing under GH. Then there's Downing who was totally shit under MON who's only found some form under...ah yes the current manager. Then there's Luke Young and NRC (your favourite) who couldn't get a game under the ex-manager but are back in favour with...ah yes the current manager.

so that leaves a collection of ageing 1st teamers on the way out, accident prone defenders,  various deadwood and er gabby that you want another manager to get the best out of.... frankly even if GH goes and we find a manager who can "work" with these players i wouldn't be expecting too much improvement from the likes of Heskey and Dunne.

[Concrete John]

Let's be clear. Yes good result today  and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff)  as early as possible  after the season ends.

Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.

Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.

so on the one hand you acknowledge that Bent can score 20+ plus goals a season and has kept us up and yet you don't want to risk Houllier getting his own team in and buying similar players this summer. hmmm....

About as ludicrous as those who didn't trust MON to spend the Milner money, a player he signed in the first place.

[Mazrim]

Unless he really was planning to spend it on McGeady and Keane as reported. In which case I'm glad he didn't get the chance.

[brontebilly]

erm..........our best player wanted to leave last season. And did. And the season before. So i wouldn't put Young's  expected departure too heavily at the door of the manager

The jury is, i agree out on Makoun but i've seen enough to suggest he's a good player who will improve given time. As will Walker if we buy him

Of who's left, the youngsters are generally thought to  enjoy playing under GH. Then there's Downing who was totally shit under MON who's only found some form under...ah yes the current manager. Then there's Luke Young and NRC (your favourite) who couldn't get a game under the ex-manager but are back in favour with...ah yes the current manager.

so that leaves a collection of ageing 1st teamers on the way out, accident prone defenders,  various deadwood and er gabby that you want another manager to get the best out of.... frankly even if GH goes and we find a manager who can "work" with these players i wouldn't be expecting too much improvement from the likes of Heskey and Dunne.

perhaps but Young doesnt appear to be going solely for money as the other two did. it would be awful if he goes to Liverpool as I think they are on the same level as us really.

Youngsters will always enjoy playing, injuries gave them their chance initially. Im not sure you can give Houllier much credit for giving the young lads a chance. His treatment of Lichaj and Baker wasnt exactly great it must be added. Clark and Albrighton look to be pushing for regular spots next season but both have a bit to go to be automatic. He gave Pires chances ahead of Bannan and Delph at stages too.

Downing has improved but more down to having a proper pre season and settling in rather than any amazing tactical changes or man mangement from Houllier. Luke Young has been in and out under Houllier, bit of a strange example.

Gabby got 16 goals last season and played superbly in the Carling Cup final. Thought he was great last season. Wouldnt blame his collapse of form all on Houllier but he didnt seem to get an improvement out of him at the same time. Dunne was on the EPL team of the year last year dont forget, the defence of Cuellar, Collins, Dunne and Warnock conceded the lowest amount of goals for a Villa side in years last season. They have all been poor this season. Dont think Dunne comes close to Warnock's decline, Collins has been worse too. John Carew's 17 goals last season have been replaced by zero this year.

Last but not least, 64 points last season, 45 points this one. James Milner isnt worth 19 points and 2 Wembley appearances of a difference. Yes there were injuries, players were acting the pr*ck but the highly paid management team is paid to deliver results from which they have failed hugely.

[/quote]

Unless he really was planning to spend it on McGeady and Keane as reported. In which case I'm glad he didn't get the chance.

Yes we swerved a couple of bullets there. On his recent Irish appearances, McGeady seems to have improved since going to Russia. Was grossly overpriced last summer. Keane might well have scored goals for us but Bent is a far better option. We would have paid far too much for him aswell.

[LeeB]

Unless he really was planning to spend it on McGeady and Keane as reported. In which case I'm glad he didn't get the chance.

[Mazrim]

Excellent.

[The Situation]

We've only lost 3 games since we signed Bent tbf.

[Mazrim]

Yes, as in MON's second (I think) season. Too many draws.

Less sloppy mistakes, more goal threat = happy days.
Both easily solved with a bit of transfer shenanigans and preparation. You'd hope.

[villa for life]

I was thinking that we've actually played a good deal of the season without a permanent manager - the games at the beginning before Houllier was appointed, and the games at the end because of the health issue. It then occurred to me how the points we accumulated in those games compared to the ones Houllier presided over. Did we actually do slightly better in those "manager - less" games?