Out of the frying pan ? Fat waiter to replace Le Gaffeur !

[KevinGage]

Recall a bizarre encounter with some Slovan Bratislava fans many moons ago where they serenaded us with:

'As on Willa
As on Willa,
Ason Willa Bir- ming-ham'

(to the tune of We'll support you ever more)

So at least they knew where we were from.

[pauliewalnuts]

*massive generalisation alert*

In my (admittedly limited) experience of travelling abroad, meeting people from different cultures (does a Yam Yam in Hong Kong count?) and exploiting them, I'm struck by the amount of foreigners who don't actually get how big we are.

Some do. The vast majority think the Premiership begins and ends with Man U/ Liverpool/ Arsenal/ Chelsea (and now maybe Tottingham).  We are generally seen as on a par with West Ham, Fulham or Blackburn.

GH managed in the Prem before and even he mentioned some crack about 7th-12th on arrival. Perhaps Rafa might have a higher regard for us though, who knows.

There might be a legitimate argument for someone being born and raised in this country (these isles if we're feeling adventurous) having more of an idea what we're about  -even if they don't have a previous association with a club. Or that might just be blinkered, xenophobic clap trap. I can't decide.

I guess it is all down to personal experience, but the three years i lived abroad, I found that people were very much aware of who we were and how big we are. To suggest we are seen as on a par with West Ham, Fulham and Blackburn is way, way wide of the mark.

I sometimes wonder if half our problem is how much we talk ourselves down.

[JJ-AV]

*massive generalisation alert*

In my (admittedly limited) experience of travelling abroad, meeting people from different cultures (does a Yam Yam in Hong Kong count?) and exploiting them, I'm struck by the amount of foreigners who don't actually get how big we are.

Some do. The vast majority think the Premiership begins and ends with Man U/ Liverpool/ Arsenal/ Chelsea (and now maybe Tottingham).  We are generally seen as on a par with West Ham, Fulham or Blackburn.

GH managed in the Prem before and even he mentioned some crack about 7th-12th on arrival. Perhaps Rafa might have a higher regard for us though, who knows.

There might be a legitimate argument for someone being born and raised in this country (these isles if we're feeling adventurous) having more of an idea what we're about  -even if they don't have a previous association with a club. Or that might just be blinkered, xenophobic clap trap. I can't decide.

Big name signings will change that. Not saying we should do it for the sake of it, but for years we weren't able to (unless they were over the hill) and then from 2006 onwards we had a manager who wasn't willing/capable. One window with Houllier and we got two. That'll have gone some way to improving our image abroad.

[JJ-AV]

I sometimes wonder if half our problem is how much we talk ourselves down.

Most certainly. The lads I go with think Benitez is out of our league. Maybe he is and he wouldn't consider us, but my assertion is with our facilities, resources and the working environment/freedom we offer we're by far and away the 7th most attractive club in the supposed 'best league in the world'. And we're able to compete for players and with a Champions League-less Spurs and Liverpool.

[KevinGage]

Big name signings will change that. Not saying we should do it for the sake of it, but for years we weren't able to (unless they were over the hill) and then from 2006 onwards we had a manager who wasn't willing/capable. One window with Houllier and we got two. That'll have gone some way to improving our image abroad.

Laursen was pretty high profile in 2004, as any player who played for AC Milan at the time would be.   Similarly Baros in 2005 probably qualified as a 'name.' Bouma also had a decent profile, as one of PSV's key players in their CL semi final campaign in 04/05.

Admittedly we've rarely gone the Tottingham route of signing players seemingly just for the headlines alone. But none of those dramatically improved our standing across the globe.




I'd still maintain that West Ham are at least as well known as us worldwide (possibly more so) whereas in this country most people with even a vague knowledge of the game know the difference.


For us to alter this perception would probably take competing at the business end of the table for a consistent period of time (we looked like we were making decent strides in that direction between 2007-9). And more cup final appearances. In the proper cup final. But alas that is probably a pipe dream, up there with Ivanhoe being a 20 goals a season marksman.

[BlueNoseBadger]

*massive generalisation alert*

In my (admittedly limited) experience of travelling abroad, meeting people from different cultures (does a Yam Yam in Hong Kong count?) and exploiting them, I'm struck by the amount of foreigners who don't actually get how big we are.

Some do. The vast majority think the Premiership begins and ends with Man U/ Liverpool/ Arsenal/ Chelsea (and now maybe Tottingham).  We are generally seen as on a par with West Ham, Fulham or Blackburn.

GH managed in the Prem before and even he mentioned some crack about 7th-12th on arrival. Perhaps Rafa might have a higher regard for us though, who knows.

There might be a legitimate argument for someone being born and raised in this country (these isles if we're feeling adventurous) having more of an idea what we're about  -even if they don't have a previous association with a club. Or that might just be blinkered, xenophobic clap trap. I can't decide.

I guess it is all down to personal experience, but the three years i lived abroad, I found that people were very much aware of who we were and how big we are. To suggest we are seen as on a par with West Ham, Fulham and Blackburn is way, way wide of the mark.

I sometimes wonder if half our problem is how much we talk ourselves down.

I've been out of the UK since '96 - in the USA now, and in China for 5 years before that, watching the soccer at various bars with expats & locals alike
Harsh to say it, but to most foreign fans any club outside of the Big 4 (Arsenal/ManUre/Liverpool/Chelsea) is a bit like the Duke & Duchess of Kent - they seem to turn up from time to time in public, but no-one really knows what purpose they serve.

A lot of these fans are new to the sport - youngsters, increasing TV coverage, & improvement in the quality of the local leagues has increased the interest in football over the last 10 years
The problem is - they are attracted to the winners!
I did not see a single Chinese person wearing anything other than (knockoff) Big 4 shirts in China.
At my local here in Portland, there are always American fans turning up to support their Big 4 teams, - I've only seen expat Brits supporting the others

History means very little to many overseas fans, unless it is in their timeframe.


This isn't a pop at you guys - just my observations
For my part, all this talk of Blues tapping up the massive Chinese fanbase is way wide of the mark.
The fans over there will only buy into us if we are successful (read challenging for the Title/regularly competing for Cups), or if we have a Chinese player in our ranks

[KevinGage]

That's largely my take on it too, BNB.

I did meet one Aussie Villa fan when I lived there, but she openly admitted she would just follow whatever club Olof Mellberg played for.

In the States, if anyone I spoke to had heard of us, that's literally all it amounted to -knowing the name.

[Concrete John]

In the States, if anyone I spoke to had heard of us, that's literally all it amounted to -knowing the name.

You should have had a chat to Tom Hanks then 

[Bad English]

<FACT!>I went to school with a kid named Warren Badger. </FACT!>

[Eigentor]

In other news, Benitez rules himself out of the running as Houllier's next assistant.

Sky Sports

[Bad English]

Houllier tries to take the credit for a CL win where he was never manager and, of course, he will blame that bloke who fucking well hasn't got a Law degree for our current woes. If we stay up, he will point to his new regime and tactics overcoming all odds. And when we qualify for the CL next year under surprise appointee Bert Van Marwijk, it will be Houllier's acorns that have become hardy oaklings. Indeed, I'm surprised he hasn't come out and said we won the Tranmere game because he was watching in his lucky 'Liver Bird' pants and brought them bad luck.

[KevinGage]

Personally, If we get past this summer and he's no longer on our payroll, I'm happy for him to take credit for anything he deems within his sphere of influence. However tenuous the connection.

Once he's gone, he can spout all the self satisfied bollocks he likes.

[sonlyme]

I don't think we're going down - and I don't think our owner is the sort of man who rushes into panicky decisions. 

Houllier's CV is not dissimilar to that of Benitez - why does anyone think Benitez would flourish in the air round B6 any-more than GH has?

What is more heartening for all the Houllier haters is the fact that he doesn't want to be deeply involved in day to day coaching - that has been left to Mr G Mac (check his managerial CV out) - and GH is more of a DoF.

So if we should unite and agitate for anything in the close season (ie: not now) it is a change of coach - I would suggest a certain Mr O Coyle as a natural fit and a man who would relish the bigger budgets and better squads with aplomb - and may also bring a prodigal son home with him.

[KevinGage]

Would it kill you not to mention supporters who might have a different opinion to you in every  post?

Particularly with terms like Houllier haters, doom mongers and so on. Judging by that (quite frankly odd) Victor Meldrew thread, it seems as if you need to construct an enemy to rail against.

I might be way off beam, but it would seem to me that if your arguments were strong enough to stand on their own merits, you wouldn't need to keep on referencing these evil supporters who have the cheek to hold a contrary opinion to you and go against the grain. As if it's they who are the oddballs.

As for strong arguments, the logic you've used there for Coyle doesn't stack up either. Why would an up and coming manager want to tarnish his reputation by being even loosely associated with a failed regime?  The only way we could get him would be if he has the autonomy to do what he is presently doing at Bolton.

[sonlyme]

I'm sorry if I've upset you KG - no personal insult intended.  However - if you don't get my posts or think them odd - that's up to you fella.

Yes I do think booing and jeering your own team is destructive (whatever opinion one holds)

I don't buy that Owen Coyle would not be interested in Villa

He left Burnley to get a bigger budget at Bolton.

Fat Sam left Bolton to get a bigger budget at Newcastle.

Far from tarnishing his rep I think Mr Coyle would leap at the chance to manage a club that can dish out £24 mill if needed.  Who wouldn't want to work with our stars and our excellent youth?  Especially with the amount of rebuilding that has to be done.  He has coached Bolton to where they are - he hasn't bought that success.

And the way he took defeat against the Blues after his team dominated possession and shots on target was sheer class.  You can watch it here.  No swivelly eyes - no sly digs or lame excuses.  Top drawer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/bolton_wanderers/9444646.stm

I think he would be a winner at Villa.  And that's not a dig at you.