Gerard's gaffes

[Concrete John]

@Mazrim (sorry - quoting ain't working for me right now!)

Yet that team/squad had finished 6th and reached Wembley twice, so whatever we may have thought about individual players the balance was very good.  Now we are in amongst the relegation candidates with largely the same squad, which he's tweaked to most people's satisfaction in January.

My opinion on MON's Villa was always that it needed evolution, mainly is the areas of more ambitious transfers and better ball retention, not revolution.  Now, in many ways Gezza has addressed both those areas, yet in the meantime has allowed the rest to go to pot.

I was prepared to take one step back in order to take two forward, but what appears to have happened is two back and one forward.  Next season is the time to judge and I'm not advocating him being sacked, but whatever the reasons or excuses we can come up with, in a results orientated business the results under him have been awful.     

[Risso]

I can accept a 'work in progress' way of looking at things.  I can also accept this as a transitional season and write it off.  What I can't accept is people trying to convince me how we're actually better off now than last season and it's all Martin's fault anyway.

How can most of the strife from this season not be MON's fault? Sorry mate, I was behind him in many ways but you'll have to explain this one to me.
If I was to write a "state of the Villa address" most of our ills would be that man's choice to leave when he did and many of his transfer policies. Of course, not everything is his fault but chief agitant, as things stand, certainly.

I wasn't an O'Neill fan, but even leaving the way he did, he left a team capable of doing better than we are now.

At team that lost 6-0 at a newly promoted club?

Yes, that one.

[Concrete John]

That team also picked up up a higher points to game ratio before he came than after.

[Mazrim]

Yes, the team was decent WITH him as it's his team. You cant seriously expect another manager to come in and run it as MON did, without arguably it's best player, with so many fringe players being no more than useless (MON didn't do fringe players) with no time to prepare. With mounting injury problems that MON never seemed to have.

It's not as simple as saying "this team did this". The moment he left, it means nothing. He was such a tyrant with it that it couldn't really fucntion to the same level without him. And even with him it was, in the end, a mish mash of deseprate football, conceding possesion to every team (even the shittest ones had more possession) we played and counter attacking. Yes, it worked mostly but correct me if I'm wrong, many people were complaining about how tedious and unsophsticated it was, weren't they?

So you cant say, "hey, this is the team that finished 6th three times and got to wembley". Or you can but I dont buy it.
More accurately you can say, "this is the team that has looked flat and disinterested all preseason, is in various states of fitness including not at all, is rife with injury, is confused, has had its complete first team staff do one at the last minute, has just had the reserve manager in charge and unsure if he wants the job, has just been hammered by poxy Newcastle and has lots of fringe players who rarely play, depressed, useless and sapping all your wage allowance and some of them are going to be harder to shift than cans of Chinese tartan paint. On the plus side you have really good kids you're going to have to start bringing through although they have had little experience. But dont play too many of them or the fans will call you names."

Yes, I think that's nearer the truth.

[Concrete John]

Well, it's all about opinions, but if the previous manager 'didn't do fringe' players why try to bring in a rotation policy until you can strengthen the squad as you see fit?  Why take the one position we did have quality in (wide) and play a striker there?  Did his extra training regimes add to the injury list?  And if so why not stop them until injuries had cleared up?

If as much as you say was wrong under MON we wouldn't have finished 6th.  But we did, so it wasn't, IMO.  Our squad needed a clearout that I won't deny, but it was/is still packed with quality players that are capable of more than a bottom half finish.  We were mentally resilient and hard to beat - now we're a soft touch.

[paulcomben]

Gerard Gaffe number 10,948: Bannan loaned to Leeds.

[Mazrim]

Hey John. Dont need to look any further than here.

Right back, cant keep the ball, cant win in March, cant or wont make substitutions, no tactical nous, outthought again, players out of position, Petrov starts again, wont look abroad for players, paying over the odds for rubbish, leaves everything to the last minute, too limited, too reliant on counter attack, cant change it, wont change it, Heskey for Carew zzzzzzzz, Sidwell for whoever, 75 minutes... blah blah blah.
Every week for years. Every day. There was plenty wrong if you believe what you read here or on the forums in general. For what it's worth I only subscribed to some of it but a lot of it had basis somewhere.

Gerrard Houllier is a better Manager than Martin O'Neill. His CV says so, his reputation says so, his trophy cabinet says so. For what it's worth, I say so. The media wont say so.
But essentially and most importantly for us, they are two completely different people with different Modus operandi and that's going to manifest itself on a football pitch.
This team is not Houllier's team. It is a mix of philosophies, experience, ability. Its going to take a while to get this team as he wants it and then, in my opinion, it will be better than MONs team. Better to watch, better results in terms of honours. Just... better. If he's given the time. MON was and he struggled in his first season too at times. With months to go we were hovering near the relegation places, couldn't win a game for ages, but we finished mid table and improved from there.
Sound familar?

Anyway, I'm done. I'm not playing Gerard's advocate anymore today.

[sfx412]

It was always going to be a season of transition.  However I thought that at worst we'd be hovering somewhere around mid table, maybe with an outside chance of 6th or 7th.

I never expected a season long relegation battle and capitulation in the FA Cup.  The only real reason for things being this bad is the choice of manager.

Nowt to do with the squad left behind by Mon, the lateness of his departure, his poorly prepared squad,  the injuries, the time taken to get a new man in, and the general disruption to the season by all those factors then ?

[MoetVillan]

fucking hell, we are starting to sound like Liverpool or United fans with all this alarmist stuff.  Things are not going well, but we will go right back to square one if we fire and hire.  And how is to say we could replace with a better Manager.  He knows what he needs to do, tighten up the back.  Our front line and midfield actually looks better than it has done for some time.  He knows how to make a tight defense, his history would lead us to believe that, and im confident he can improve it.  He knows he has to cut the wage bill.  He is doing it.  He shouldnt have gambled on the FA Cup game IMO, historically it just doesnt work.  As for loaning out players, if they get games week in week out, it improves them, and at worse will increase their value.  God only knows what these pages would be like if DOL was in charge.

[sfx412]

I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:

"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."

Patience.

He might have been a good manager ten years ago when they won those cups, but he isn't any more.  I work with at least a dozen Liverpool fans, and they'd all laugh their arses up if I suggested they might like Houllier back as Liverpool manager.

Understandable,why have Houllier back when the King is back in charge ?

[Risso]

I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:

"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."

Patience.

He might have been a good manager ten years ago when they won those cups, but he isn't any more.  I work with at least a dozen Liverpool fans, and they'd all laugh their arses up if I suggested they might like Houllier back as Liverpool manager.

Understandable,why have Houllier back when the King is back in charge ?

There'd be a long list of people I suspect before they'd have Houllier back.

[MoetVillan]

Risso, the only reason for that is not to go back, it doesnt ever seem to work somehow.  I know a lot of Liverpool fans, and season ticket holders, and all speak very highly of Hou when he was the gaffer.  My stepdad at the start of this season said he wished they had gone back to Hou instead of Woy (he is a lifelong Red, worst luck, great guy otherwise!), and that was before we took him on

[Risso]

fucking hell, we are starting to sound like Liverpool or United fans with all this alarmist stuff.  Things are not going well, but we will go right back to square one if we fire and hire.  And how is to say we could replace with a better Manager.  He knows what he needs to do, tighten up the back.  Our front line and midfield actually looks better than it has done for some time.  He knows how to make a tight defense, his history would lead us to believe that, and im confident he can improve it.  He knows he has to cut the wage bill.  He is doing it.  He shouldnt have gambled on the FA Cup game IMO, historically it just doesnt work.  As for loaning out players, if they get games week in week out, it improves them, and at worse will increase their value.  God only knows what these pages would be like if DOL was in charge.

What have Liverpool and Man U got to do with anything, they're not in danger of going down last time I checked.

Liverpool are an interesting case though.  Finished below us, had all sorts of goings on off the pitch, have had both Hodgson and Dalglish taking over a shambles this season, have lost one of the best forwards in the world and yet are ensconced in 6th having just spanked Man U.  Sometimes you have to stop making excuses and get on with it.  Hodgson wasn't working out for them, so they had the balls to get rid, and are reaping the dividends.  We stuck by the utterly incompetent Houllier, and are paying for it.

[Risso]

Risso, the only reason for that is not to go back, it doesnt ever seem to work somehow. 

Dalglish seems to be doing OK.....

[MoetVillan]

Fair point Risso, as soon as i posted that i realised my gaffe, number 10455883!  I guess I was thinking GT, and I read someplace about it turning out a bad decision to go back to a club