Author Topic: Summer transfer rumours, speculation and out-and-out bllcks. (Read 2838232 times)

Concrete John · « **Reply #1380 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:14:00 PM »

Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 13, 2011, 02:58:22 PM

To say O'Neill had worse injuries than Houlier is definitely stretching a point. Even against Wolves we had a makeshift back four and while I'm not saying 2006-07 was as bad as this season, I do think it's wrong to say everything was great then and everything's awful now.

I'd agree Gezza had worse injuries to contend with than Martin did in 06/07.

Maybe I'm biased, but I walked away from most games then, and this was also my overall season evaluation, that we did about aswell as we could have expected. I'm thinking pretty much the opposite now.

dave.woodhall · « **Reply #1381 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:14:02 PM »

Quote from: WikiVilla on April 13, 2011, 03:00:07 PM

Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 13, 2011, 01:46:28 PM
I know it's going off at a tangent, but in O'Neill's first season we finished 11th. We're currently two points off ninth. If we make up those points and finish higher in Gzza's first season than we did in Martin's, what does that say about the ability of either manager?

Poor analogy, MON inherited a crock of shite yet got them organised, motivated and playing as a team from day 1
GH was given a squad full of expensively assembled seasoned internationals and has struggled to convince anyone he know's what he's doing, players, fans & the media

No, it's a fact - we could quite possibly end up higher than we did in O'Neill's first season. Anything else is supposition.

WikiVilla · « **Reply #1382 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:15:51 PM »

Poor comparison then
& take on board shocking results like SHA in the Cup and Wolves at home and it really has been a season to forget

Mazrim · « **Reply #1383 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:17:55 PM »

It wasn't a poor comparison at all. It was perfectly relevant.
Stop talking out of your anus.

Concrete John · « **Reply #1384 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:18:19 PM »

Quote from: WikiVilla on April 13, 2011, 03:10:28 PM

brave or stupid, its a matter of opinion i guess

To be honest it's more a matter of results shaping that opinion.

WikiVilla · « **Reply #1385 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:21:38 PM »

Quote from: Mazrim on April 13, 2011, 03:17:55 PM

It wasn't a poor comparison at all. It was perfectly relevant.
Stop talking out of your anus.

Garbage, you cannot compare the squad MON inherited with the squad GED was handed on a platter

dave.woodhall · « **Reply #1386 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:29:32 PM »

You also cannot compare the off-field situation O'Neill enjoyed with the one Houllier has had to put up with, yet O'Neill's first season was thought of as one of progress while Houllier is condemned.

Concrete John · « **Reply #1387 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:36:57 PM »

Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 13, 2011, 03:29:32 PM

You also cannot compare the off-field situation O'Neill enjoyed with the one Houllier has had to put up with, yet O'Neill's first season was thought of as one of progress while Houllier is condemned.

I can't help but feel the off the field situation is at least partly of his own making as he's out of touch with how to handle the modern footballer egos. They're in the wrong, don't misunderstand me, but I think the issues could have been settled without the obvious friction had he handled things better.

And as for progress, yes MON's first season was seen as that. But how can Houllier's be anything other than disastrous given our fall from 6th and challenging for 4th to relegation candidates? Blame injuries if you like, but for me it's much more due to poor management than unfortunate circumstance.

Mazrim · « **Reply #1388 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:41:14 PM »

Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 13, 2011, 03:29:32 PM

You also cannot compare the off-field situation O'Neill enjoyed with the one Houllier has had to put up with, yet O'Neill's first season was thought of as one of progress while Houllier is condemned.

Precisely.

And besides, you CAN compare the squads.
What is the major difference exactly? Didn't they both have to get by with playing kids? Houllier more so.
What was Houllier "handed on a platter" exactly? A squad full of injured players?, some trouble makers?
Some fine players, no doubt. So were Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma, Barry and so on.
Also a few very promising kids and a fair amount of dross. Yep sounds very familiar so far.
In fact, the more I think about it, the more the situations seemed very much akin if differing in the finer details.
It is a relevant comparison.
And Houllier may well do better.

Neither season will long be cherished in the storied history of Aston Villa.

hartman_1982 · « **Reply #1389 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:46:17 PM »

Expectations have changed though. When MON walked through the door it was a delight to have him because he wasn't pugnose. We had all been down and suddenly there was hope and the fans were happy again. When GED walked in a lot of fans were angry with the way MON left, angry with how long it took Randy to appoint GED and some were angry with the appointment of GED. Combine that with losing our best player, people believing we had no money, injuries, players being arseholes and it was never going to be a great season was it?
GED has come in and changed things on and off the field. We need to be clever in reducing the wage bill and still succeeding and i believe GED could be the man to do that. Yes some players don't like the way things are done now, but that isn't his fault. With MON I got the impression we would never get into the CL because we couldn't keep the ball and there is only so high you can go playing counter attacking football. With GED we are playing a style of football that can take you places. I agree we need to address the basics (set pieces etc) but I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

dave.woodhall · « **Reply #1390 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:47:24 PM »

Quote from: John M on April 13, 2011, 03:36:57 PM

Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 13, 2011, 03:29:32 PM
You also cannot compare the off-field situation O'Neill enjoyed with the one Houllier has had to put up with, yet O'Neill's first season was thought of as one of progress while Houllier is condemned.

I can't help but feel the off the field situation is at least partly of his own making as he's out of touch with how to handle the modern footballer egos. They're in the wrong, don't misunderstand me, but I think the issues could have been settled without the obvious friction had he handled things better.

And as for progress, yes MON's first season was seen as that. But how can Houllier's be anything other than disastrous given our fall from 6th and challenging for 4th to relegation candidates? Blame injuries if you like, but for me it's much more due to poor management than unfortunate circumstance.

And maybe - I don't know, so I'm only guessing - a lot of it was down to kicking the players arses and making them a bit less comfortabe. But as you said, it's about results. In that case, do you think two wins in 20 matches is get-the-banners-out standard?

eastie · « **Reply #1391 on:** April 13, 2011, 04:06:40 PM »

Quote from: WikiVilla on April 13, 2011, 03:15:51 PM

Poor comparison then
& take on board shocking results like SHA in the Cup and Wolves at home and it really has been a season to forget

come on wiki, we can all points to poor results in any season , what point are you making by mentioning those 2?

Concrete John · « **Reply #1392 on:** April 13, 2011, 04:07:10 PM »

Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 13, 2011, 03:47:24 PM

Quote from: John M on April 13, 2011, 03:36:57 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 13, 2011, 03:29:32 PM
You also cannot compare the off-field situation O'Neill enjoyed with the one Houllier has had to put up with, yet O'Neill's first season was thought of as one of progress while Houllier is condemned.

I can't help but feel the off the field situation is at least partly of his own making as he's out of touch with how to handle the modern footballer egos. They're in the wrong, don't misunderstand me, but I think the issues could have been settled without the obvious friction had he handled things better.

And as for progress, yes MON's first season was seen as that. But how can Houllier's be anything other than disastrous given our fall from 6th and challenging for 4th to relegation candidates? Blame injuries if you like, but for me it's much more due to poor management than unfortunate circumstance.

And maybe - I don't know, so I'm only guessing - a lot of it was down to kicking the players arses and making them a bit less comfortabe. But as you said, it's about results. In that case, do you think two wins in 20 matches is get-the-banners-out standard?

No I don't. I never said 06/07 was 'banners out standard' - we're Aston Villa and 11th will never be that, but is was a decent final position given where the club was at the time. Were we to finish 11th this season I'd think it a much less acceptable position given what the manager has had to work with.

hartman_1982 · « **Reply #1393 on:** April 13, 2011, 04:09:41 PM »

I remember people saying on here that if we had a top half finish and the youngsters got their chance that this would be a good season, we could very well do that.

Mazrim · « **Reply #1394 on:** April 13, 2011, 04:11:10 PM »

Arsenal 1 - 1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 2 - 1 Reading
Aston Villa 2 - 0 Newcastle
West Ham 1 - 1 Aston Villa
Watford 0 - 0 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 2 - 0 Charlton
Chelsea 1 - 1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 1 - 1 Tottenham
Aston Villa 1 - 1 Fulham
Liverpool 3 - 1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 2 - 0 Blackburn
Everton 0 - 1 Aston Villa
Wigan 0 - 0 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 1 - 1 Middlesbrough
Aston Villa 1 - 3 Man City
Portsmouth 2 - 2 Aston Villa
Sheff Utd 2 - 2 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 0 - 1 Bolton
Aston Villa 0 - 3 Man Utd
Tottenham 2 - 1 Aston Villa
Charlton 2 - 1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 0 - 0 Chelsea
Man Utd 3 - 1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 2 - 0 Watford
Newcastle 3 - 1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 1 - 0 West Ham
Reading 2 - 0 Aston Villa
Fulham 1 - 1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 0 - 1 Arsenal
Aston Villa 0 - 0 Liverpool
Aston Villa 1 - 1 Everton
Blackburn 1 - 2 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 1 - 1 Wigan
Middlesbrough 1 - 3 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 0 - 0 Portsmouth
Man City 0 - 2 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 3 - 0 Sheff Utd
Bolton 2 - 2 Aston Villa

And in the corresponding table for April 13th 2007 we were... 14th.

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