Summer transfer rumours, speculation and out-and-out b*ll*cks.

[King of the Nørth]

 Tbf Redman in the thread title it does say speculation. Maybe he is just speculating that he isnt/ wont turn out to be worth the money Liverpool have paid for him. Although I would say in his (Henderson's) defence who would of thought Lampard would turn out to be the top quality (some might say 'world class') player he was under Mourinho. All through his famed sheer persistance and hard work on the training ground to improve himself as a player.

[Mazrim]

However he ended up, Lee Hendrie at the same age was twice the player Henderson is. I think he's bloody ordinary to be honest.

When Hendrie was the same age as Henderson, he'd made 24 league appearances. Henderson has made 71.

So? We had a better team then than Sunderland have had for the past 2 years and his opportunities were more limited.
Hendrie was still a better player in my opinion.

Point being that if he was twice the player, he hadn't yet had a chance to prove it. 24 league appearances is nowt. 71 isn't even a lot to be making a sound judgment.

Well, I also watched him come up through the ranks so it wasn't based on just the league games.
But we're not going to agree. You'll defend the signing of Henderson for such a ridiculous fee as a calculated risk and who can blame you. Taking such a massive punt on a young player is commendable.
But I see it as an unbelievable waste of money on what I consider a tidy but otherwise unremarkable player who has done absolutely nothing to justify that figure.

He has nothing like the talent Hendrie had, but unlike Hendrie perhaps he will make the most of what he does have.
Time will tell.

I keep reading what a waste of money Henderson is and it gets less and less meaningful each time because none of us have a crystal ball.

The assumption is that, at age 20 and two seasons of league football, we've seen enough of a player to guage the limit of his potential and capability. I'd dispute that.

If Liverpool have seen enough to think they can mould Henderson into a top player, isn't the sensible thing to reserve judgment until they've had a chance to do it?

I dont really see what's so hard to understand. I haven't see anything in Henderson to justify such a large fee. Obviously Liverpool have. I dont really give a toss anyway. If he turns out to be a top (or even an above average) player I'll be very suprised.
Nothing really more to say on that.

And Liverpool will have to pay through the nose to get Downing, who has proven himself.
We're not going to sell Young for £20m with one year left on his contract only to let Downing (our player of the year) go for anything less, with two years left on his contract, to a rival who will competing for the exact same things we will next season. Even if Liverpool will be better placed for them. Maybe.

[Rigadon]

If Downing has 'had talks' then we've already agreed the fee and he's already gone.  Surely for Quinn to say that it has to be true otherwise he'd be open to litigation.  I'm torn on this because on the one hand it's us selling our better performers again but on the other, as others have said, he's 7/10 steady eddie type who I can't get too upset about.  He will of course turn into a genius when he turns out for Liverpool (Football Club). 

[Redman]

However he ended up, Lee Hendrie at the same age was twice the player Henderson is. I think he's bloody ordinary to be honest.

When Hendrie was the same age as Henderson, he'd made 24 league appearances. Henderson has made 71.

So? We had a better team then than Sunderland have had for the past 2 years and his opportunities were more limited.
Hendrie was still a better player in my opinion.

Point being that if he was twice the player, he hadn't yet had a chance to prove it. 24 league appearances is nowt. 71 isn't even a lot to be making a sound judgment.

Well, I also watched him come up through the ranks so it wasn't based on just the league games.
But we're not going to agree. You'll defend the signing of Henderson for such a ridiculous fee as a calculated risk and who can blame you. Taking such a massive punt on a young player is commendable.
But I see it as an unbelievable waste of money on what I consider a tidy but otherwise unremarkable player who has done absolutely nothing to justify that figure.

He has nothing like the talent Hendrie had, but unlike Hendrie perhaps he will make the most of what he does have.
Time will tell.

I keep reading what a waste of money Henderson is and it gets less and less meaningful each time because none of us have a crystal ball.

The assumption is that, at age 20 and two seasons of league football, we've seen enough of a player to guage the limit of his potential and capability. I'd dispute that.

If Liverpool have seen enough to think they can mould Henderson into a top player, isn't the sensible thing to reserve judgment until they've had a chance to do it?

I dont really see what's so hard to understand. I haven't see anything in Henderson to justify such a large fee. Obviously Liverpool have. I dont really give a toss anyway. If he turns out to be a top (or even an above average) player I'll be very suprised.
Nothing really more to say on that.

And Liverpool will have to pay through the nose to get Downing, who has proven himself.
We're not going to sell Young for £20m with one year left on his contract only to let Downing (our player of the year) go for anything less, with two years left on his contract, to a rival who will competing for the exact same things we will next season. Even if Liverpool will be better placed for them. Maybe.

It's easy to understand, I just don't think we're any the wiser for making outlandish predictions about whether or not a young player will go on to justify a large price tag, especially when said predictions become the benchmark for other deals.

I also don't think we're any the wiser by taking the highest reported fee that another player was sold for and using that as a benchmark either.

On a Villa messageboard, of course it is standard procedure to talk up the value of Villa players. But if Downing is sold, I'm certain it won't be for more than £20m (including add-ons) and if he isn't sold, it won't have anything to do with the Young and Henderson fees.

[cdbearsfan]

Henderson cost HOW MUCH?

[Redman]

Question: What offer would be too good to turn down for Albrighton?

[cdbearsfan]

What you offering? I'll take £30 million, Andy Carroll and Echo and the Bunnymen.

[Mazrim]

I dont care what you're certain of. If you think other deals dont set precedent or have no bearing on others, you're wrong.
You're also wrong about what Downing will go for IF we decide to sell him.

Also, there's nothing "outlandish" with saying Henderson does not, at this moment, nor look likely of being in the future based on what I have seen thus far, that is to say, all you have to go on, justify a fee in the region of what Liverpool paid for him.
This is my opinion and its probably quite typical in the wider football community too. I think most people are scratching their heads about that one including some Liverpool fans I know.

What would be outlandish would be to say, oh I dont know... off the top of my head; 'Jordan Henderson is worth £16m-£20m and will be a top player in the future'.

Please stop quoting me now. I'm getting bored talking and hearing about Liverpool.

[murgsy]

Meireles was very badly treated by all accounts. Somehow he might prefer to get away from PL - Juve likely destination apparently.

[Redman]

I dont care what you're certain of. If you think other deals dont set precedent or have no bearing on others, you're wrong.
You're also wrong about what Downing will go for IF we decide to sell him.

Of course they have a bearing but not when you remove all context or pull them from the nearest tabloid.

If you won't go lower than £20m for Stew, you'll get to keep him.

[Le Lapin]

N'Zogbia and Matt Jarvis would be two good players to replace Downing and Young, and we have Albrighton as well. By the sounds of things, Downing is off to the Bindippers. It would be great to get the players that we need in before the pre season matches kick off.
United always seem to do their main transfers early in the window, and we did it pretty sharpish with Bent at Christmas. This season is so critical for the club, players and manager, we need to have a settled side if we are to hit the ground running in August and be fucking around with late transfers and the like won't help.

[Barca 2011]

Please stop quoting me now. I'm getting bored talking and hearing about Liverpool.

Me to. Not remotely interested in Red Scouse, their fans or their fans opinions.

[PaulTheVillan]

I think the Downing saga will be like the Barry/Liverpool saga.

He'll only go if he submits an official request & they match our valuation.

[Mazrim]

I dont care what you're certain of. If you think other deals dont set precedent or have no bearing on others, you're wrong.
You're also wrong about what Downing will go for IF we decide to sell him.

Of course they have a bearing but not when you remove all context or pull them from the nearest tabloid.

If you won't go lower than £20m for Stew, you'll get to keep him.

Fine. We'll keep him then.
Do you honestly think we're desperate to sell to you or something? Get lost.

And please, stop talking out of your arse. I havent mentioned any tabloids and what context have I removed? You said "it won't have anything to do with the Young and Henderson fees" and you're wrong. Now you're saying they will have a bearing? Make your mind up.
When we started splashing cash on Young, Milner, Davies etc... we got stung for everybody afterwards. By spending so much on Henderson (and Carroll etc) you have set your stall out and you will be quoted prices based on that and what is acceptable to us and what we value our own players at.

So I say again, if you think the Henderson and Young deals have nothing to do with any potential deal for Downing, think again.

[Mazrim]

I think the Downing saga will be like the Barry/Liverpool saga.

He'll only go if he submits an official request & they match our valuation.

And then go to a club that isnt Liverpool at the start of next season.
Yes, I see what you mean.