Doubting Randy?

[Concrete John]

Bottom line is it will still be money owed by Villa to Lerner. We seem to have gone from taking action to bring our wages to earnings ratio to a more manageable percentage to taking a gamble on investing whatever is required to ensure we remain in the League this season.

There could already be plans in place in the Summer that sees the likes of Young and Downing leave to offset this window. However, as I said in my earlier post, should the unthinkable happen, and we go down (and we have a lot to do despite everyone assuming Bent will be the saviour), as a club we will have serious financial problems to address.

When you think about it, Randy is far miore likely to want to pump money into HIS asset if such money remains within it.  With transfers that's the case as the balance sheet would reflect the transfer value of the squad.  Basically, buying Bent means Villa is worth more.

The difference with wages is that this money goes out of the club and as such too large a wagebill detracts from the asset value.  So if he's funding them he's spending money to see the club worth less.

In that case, his actions are understandable in wanting the wages lowered, but still being willing to fund the signings.

I'm sure some accountant will now put me right on that....

[PeterWithe]

Would most, if not all, of the players have a clause in their contract reducing their wages to more manageable levels if we were relegated?

[sfx412]

And still they try to find fault ?

What exactly do you want Randy to do?

Provide Man City / Old Chelsea type funding ? Which club apart from Villa has been top or second in the transfer spending over the last 4 years. Pages of what looks now total inane rubbish has been sprouted by the usual idiots and some more respected contributors on how the club was broke, how Randy was pulling his money out, that Randy no longer cared about Villa, that he needed to bring in the loans and as such needed to sell players, BEFORE we bought again.

Did anyone expect him to try and get a striker for 18-24 mill and that after spending 6 mill on Makoun and with several other potential purchases in the offing.

No you bloody smart arses didn't and so far I've seen only one, and that a qualified apology. Perhaps those threads should be highlighted so we can see again exactly who the naysayers were.

I'd also like to add in this little rant, that if the deal goes through like the Makoun deal, the Walker deal, its been done quickly efficiently and mostly at a great surprise to every Villa fan and most media sources. What a refreshing change that is from the last 4 seasons under turncoat O'Neill.

Whether the deal comes off or not its obvious it won't be Villa's, Randy's, Faulkner's or Houlliers fault if it doesn't and that for me is a refreshing show of intent and one which puts all those smart arsed doomsayers, many who were totally shitfaced by O'Neills exit, sitting licking their wounds even more.

Considering what the guy has done for the club already, in comparison to past owners/Directors and most other owners the guys a gem. I don't always see eye to eye with his policies and dealings in and out of Villa, but I can't see how anyone can denigrate what the guy has done for Villa, even if we do get relegated.
When I think of the wasted opportunities that have gone before, the present attacks even when such a signing looks imminent is a disgrace to the name of Aston Villa fandom.

[Chico Hamilton III]

what a prize prick

[supertom]

I want Randy's baby. I love him.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Did anyone expect him to try and get a striker for 18-24 mill and that after spending 6 mill on Makoun and with several other potential purchases in the offing.

No you bloody smart arses didn't

Did you?

I won't expect you to answer as i'm now convinced you're lying in a dark room crying.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Anyone that says that they didn't have a single doubt is either very naive or very stupid. We were inactive in two transfer windows last year, we sold our best player and lost a successful manager. Most of the criticism of the owners was over the top and misplaced but there was every reason to start to wonder if the global financial situation and the new money in the PL had caused Randy to reconsider how he wanted to go forward.

The Bent deal is a great signal of intent but I bet even those claiming that they didn't give a second thought to his position were surprised that we were in the market at that sort of level.

Why were we inactive in the last two transfer windows? IIRC we went over budget when we bought Warnock in during the summer, so it was no surprise we didn't bring anybody in during January. Last summer we all know what happened with the manager's position.

The question is, do you believe that Randy was unhappy paying wages to players that were not being used? I for one certainly hope he was. The General stated in the summer that funds were available for MON but wanted wages paid to players that deserved them, not the players in the squad that were never used. That was understandably seen as a waste of resources. Apparently MON understood the situation. We don't know what made MON leave, maybe it was he thought he'd lose face with Randy when we only got peanuts for some of the players he'd bought. We don't know but I never thought Randy had closed his wallet, just he wanted to make better use of the expenditure.

I remember when our financial results were posted on here and a few quite rightly questioned how we could support such numbers. The General again posted how the numbers were no surprise to the club and that the debt had been factored in to their business plan. Nothing had changed in terms of their overall objectives.

Now I guess the big question is should we believe the General. Putting aside his honourable character, the fact that if he were to lie/mislead us on here and the other sites he posts on, his whole credibility would instantly go out the window; it would be a massive PR disaster, undoing 4 years good work. To avoid such a situation, it would have been better for him not to give answers regarding financial issues or deflect with half answers. That never happened.

Now you can call me "very naive or very stupid" but why should I doubt him? I'm a cynical bastard at the best of times but over these last four years he's earned my trust (as well as my respect). I understand why people question Randy's objectives, especially when we look back at our previous chairman and the circus that is modern day football, especially in England. I just think we still haven't quite come to terms with just how fortunate we are to have Randy Lerner as our owner. Obviously things can change and they probably will but right now I wouldn't want anybody else running our club.

As for the Bent signing, you're right, I never thought we'd be in for that level of investment, as least not now, not this window. I just hope it pays off, not only for ourselves but also for Randy Lerner. What's obvious is our turnover doesn't come anywhere near supporting this type of investment and with a wage bill that accounts for 85% of it, he must be mad or extremely dedicated. Probably both.

[KevinGage]

Most of it, but particularly this:

Now you can call me "very naive or very stupid" but why should I doubt him? I'm a cynical bastard at the best of times but over these last four years he's earned my trust (as well as my respect). I understand why people question Randy's objectives, especially when we look back at our previous chairman and the circus that is modern day football, especially in England. I just think we still haven't quite come to terms with just how fortunate we are to have Randy Lerner as our owner. Obviously things can change and they probably will but right now I wouldn't want anybody else running our club.

Spot on MK.

[magic monks]

Most of it, but particularly this:

Now you can call me "very naive or very stupid" but why should I doubt him? I'm a cynical bastard at the best of times but over these last four years he's earned my trust (as well as my respect). I understand why people question Randy's objectives, especially when we look back at our previous chairman and the circus that is modern day football, especially in England. I just think we still haven't quite come to terms with just how fortunate we are to have Randy Lerner as our owner. Obviously things can change and they probably will but right now I wouldn't want anybody else running our club.

Spot on MK.

Doubting Randy is akin to being a high-maintenance girlfriend saing to her cash cow that she's 'doubting' how much he loves her, unless she keeps buying her loads of expensive shit.

Yes Lerner has, once again, but his money where is mouth is. But there was little reason to doubt him in December, in September when he appointed GH, in August when he laid down the law to MON, and the three years before that.

RL is putting the hard yards in, has put them in and puts other new-money foreign benefactors to shame with his emotional commitment, let alone his financial ones.

In Randy I trust, yesterday, today and tomorrow.     

[adam#1]

From a financial perspective we ended the summer window about £12-14m up on transfer fees, plus unspent monies on league placing (I assume that that money remains set aside for transfer fees). So 18m on Bent and 6m on Makoun (less 2-3m for Sidwell) isn't that far wide of that. Add in that the window is not yet closed and we could see departures and I don't think the case is firmly proven that the levels of investment we have seen before year on year are continuing.

Sfx412 (whats that moniker about?!) - I'll put my post up for criticism as a "naysayer" - if on the 31st Jan the net transfer fee spend is greater than 20 million then I'll offer an apology, unreserved, to who ever is asking for it.

Log this post.

[Concrete John]

I think the problem was a lack of communication, other than the General on here who couldn't and wouldn't get draw on specifics.  What we saw was our best player go, plus Shorey, following no signings in Jan, when MON admitted it was 'sell to buy'.  There were numerous reasons put up for this, but with the emergence of Man City and Spurs our CL ambitions seemed further away than ever, and if Randy also thought that then it may have explained the change in approach.

As I said a page or two back - it wasn't a matter of doubting him, but it was fair to ask a question or two.  However, actions speak louder than words so rather than pamper to the likes of me he kept his own council and then put his money where his mouth wasn't.

Fair fucks to him, but even if some like to have a pop I think querying what was going was justified at the time. 

[dave.woodhall]

Call me naive, or trusting, but I never doubted for a moment that they would back the manager with whatever was necessary. Maybe the last couple of months have shown that the Lerner Vision needs heavy short-term investment to keep the long-term goals achievable.

[Chris Smith]

Mark, I gave my reasons why I thought it was reasonable for doubts, not about his commitment but as to the direction he wanted to go, i.e. the changed global financial climate and the altered landscape since Man City started throwing around cash like confetti. It's not unreasonable that would cause people to look at the situation and wonder if he might review the business model at VP.

This thread is starting to sound like a McCarthyite challenge with everyone desperate to prove just how loyal they are. It is not a heresy to have stopped to think about things given the circumstances.

[Chris Smith]

Call me naive, or trusting, but I never doubted for a moment that they would back the manager with whatever was necessary. Maybe the last couple of months have shown that the Lerner Vision needs heavy short-term investment to keep the long-term goals achievable.

It was only a few weeks ago that you were saying how you thought we were more likely to be looking at the "stars of the future". This is at the opposite end of the spectrum to that approach.

[PeterWithe]

Once it was clear that GH was staying I thought he would be backed up with money, just nowhere near this much. Its incredible.