How long before......

[Pete3206]

Gazza, relegation is not an option.

[old man villa fan]

We are up against it because of the injuries.  Not just the long term ones but the constant team changes due to minor injuries and illness.

Our situation with injuries is showing up the limitations of MON as a manager.  He had a frst XI and not much else.  If he had half the injuries we currently have, we would have been in the same position.  We were lucky with injuries for most of MON's time here, other than ML and WB.

GH has to be given time to improve the squad, otherwise it will have been a waste of time appointing him.  I suppose we have been caught up in the negative point of the transfer window and only being able to sign players twice a year.

[myf]

Under Hou I get the feeling that we will trundle along, picking up some good results along the way, playing good football but ultimatley not troubling the top six or the Wembley ticket office. Thats what I felt when we appointed him and nothing since has changed my mind.

Nice guy, good football but no fire in the belly and limited ambition.

He has to be given time though, to prove naysayers like myself wrong. Heres hoping.

I feel the same.  He seems like a genuinely nice bloke who has the club's best interests at heart, but just doesn't come across as someone who is going to pull up trees.  He needs at least a season to make any kind of impact.

It was always going to be difficult to replace MON as he was a talismanic figure who on the whole got results and put fear into the opposition.

[pauliewalnuts]

We were lucky with injuries for most of MON's time here, other than ML and WB.

That's a good point. For whatever reason (if any), MON was extraordinarily lucky with injuries his whole time here (bar the two you mention).

I get the feeling that right now, we're paying back three or four years "good luck" with our injury list.

[KevinGage]

I don't necessarily think it's right to attribute our injury record (or lack of) under MON purely down to luck.

There would be a degree of fortune in the sense that we would rarely have a big player for us out for any length of time, I accept that. Any contact sport played with the intensity of football will normally generate a fair few injuries.

But perhaps his approach to training partly helped in that regard. It might have been tactically lacking and all the rest of it, but it at least kept the players fresh.

I'm not saying his way was right and GH's is automatically wrong. But I do think GH tried to do too much to soon and I'm not entirely convinced that our spate of injuries aren't in some way connected to the increase of intensity re training.

Hindsight being 20/20 vision and all that, but maybe he'd have been better served implementing his approach  gradually or leaving most of the major physical work until pre season.

[hawkeye]

the atmosphere around the club July / Milner Gate the fall out with MON no fitness coach for some critical periods also probably had some bearing on fitness and injurys,

[ktvillan]

Most managers would struggle with our injury list, loss of form or interest from some senior players, and poor technique of others.  It would be harsh indeed to judge Houllier until he has a full squad to choose from and has been able to make a few signings.  Plus the football is 100 times better than the dross served up by O'Neill.

That said, I'm not sure good football should be a priority at the moment - digging in and making ourselves hard to beat might be a better option looking at most of our next 10 or so fixtures. 

I do, however,  have some minor concerns with GH.  He does sometimes come across as lacking a bit of "fire in the belly" as someone else put it, and I also find it odd that, with such a depleted squad , an experienced and useful CB in Curtis Davies is out on loan.   But generally I think he is trying to do things in the right way.

[old man villa fan]

I don't necessarily think it's right to attribute our injury record (or lack of) under MON purely down to luck.

There would be a degree of fortune in the sense that we would rarely have a big player for us out for any length of time, I accept that. Any contact sport played with the intensity of football will normally generate a fair few injuries.

But perhaps his approach to training partly helped in that regard. It might have been tactically lacking and all the rest of it, but it at least kept the players fresh.

I'm not saying his way was right and GH's is automatically wrong. But I do think GH tried to do too much to soon and I'm not entirely convinced that our spate of injuries aren't in some way connected to the increase of intensity re training.

Hindsight being 20/20 vision and all that, but maybe he'd have been better served implementing his approach  gradually or leaving most of the major physical work until pre season.

Could be that the average age of MON's team was creaping up and the injuries are a reflection of this and new training methods are just coincidental and an easy answer.

[KevinGage]

I think going from one two hour training session per day (with Wednesday off) to double training sessions and no days off in a short space of time would be a factor, particularly with no conditioning coach between Aug- Oct.

Other injuries picked up in regular match situations and the type of ailment which is currently keeping Albrighton out is one thing. But the sheer volume of injuries we've had in such a short space of time can't, I don't think, be put down purely to bad luck or players getting older. The latter two factors prob do play a part too though.

[Mac]

As a side issue, I'm kind of rattled by the kind of players we seem to be being linked with in the January window. I'm not expecting Leo Messi but I thought we were past the Keane/Piquionne level that appeared to be MON's natural stomping ground.

Being linked with someone is a massive step forward.

I know what you mean, but it is just idle press talk thus far. We'll find out soon enough what kind of player he's in the market for.

[Mac]

I think going from one two hour training session per day (with Wednesday off) to double training sessions and no days off in a short space of time would be a factor, particularly with no conditioning coach between Aug- Oct.

According to Janine Self this never happened.  There was one double session when everyone was off international duty.

[SoccerHQ]

If this is how he wants to play I can see him looking at replacing the whole back 4 with new players in the next 2 windows.

I think we'd be OK passing wise with a central partnership of Collins and Clark, which could be his longterm thinking, but I am increasingly expecting to see two new fullbacks brought in.

Cueller, Collins, Dunne and L Young was the tightest defence in the league last season when they played together.

Blimey?!

I spent ages last season arguing with you on various threads that our defence record was much better when Luke was in our back 4 and now you've used that quote!

Tsk.

[SoccerHQ]

We were lucky with injuries for most of MON's time here, other than ML and WB.

That's a good point. For whatever reason (if any), MON was extraordinarily lucky with injuries his whole time here (bar the two you mention).

I get the feeling that right now, we're paying back three or four years "good luck" with our injury list.

Just use the case of Gabby. Such a key player for us. He missed about 5 games in 4 seasons under the previous manager. I don't think he's started 5 games under Houllier yet.

Albrighton was fantastic against Manure and hasn't played a game since.

Until we can get a consistant first 11 out for 5 games in a row as we frequently did in the past few seasons (so much so everyone was fcuked around March time) we won't see a consistant run of results.

[BannedUserIAT]

MoN had to deal with injury problems to deal with on top of Laursen and Bouma. Let's not forget that.
He just had a different way of dealing with it, is all.

Both Petrov and Davies played though injuries and, from memory, Milner played when he was also some way short of 100%. Gabby too, I think? The day a senior player crawled off the physio's table, he was selected.

MoN just played them. Because he had no Plan B. What choice did he have?

[JJ-AV]

I think we're in the middle of seeing the effects of MON's overplaying of Gabby.