Attendance-a worrying trend

[PeterWithesShin]

Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.

That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.

You're right of course but we couldn't even work with Villa Talk let alone KRO or Gorty Dick and, despite Mr Kavanagh's fine words, I don't see much likelihood of cooperation between the Spirit of Shankley people and the green and gold protesters at Old Trafford.

Yet we were doing it twenty years ago, when large-scale violence was a vivid memory. What's changed?

Football?

[olaftab]

Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.

That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.

Sometimes dog eat dog mentality within  football supporting fraternity baffles me. After all we all want the same thing for our clubs but somehow translate that into absolute hatred for each other.

Can someone tell us about the  work FSF are doing? Surely it should be within their remit to tackle issues like this?

[dave.woodhall]

Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.

That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.

Sometimes dog eat dog mentality within  football supporting fraternity baffles me. After all we all want the same thing for our clubs but somehow translate that into absolute hatred for each other.

Can someone tell us about the  work FSF are doing? Surely it should be within their remit to tackle issues like this?

One of them spends a lot of time on messageboards but apart from that I don't know. I was involved with the FSA for many years and I'm still proud of the work we did, but the FSF seems happy to make a statement on an issue and that's it.

[Shaun Teales mom]

hi anybody know how to download a form for the half season ticket as there seems to be no link on the web site and nothing in the tickets section

silly me lol found em forget this post

[ROBBO]

The F.A should be worried, if a week on week supporter decides he can no loger afford to go to matches he will find another outlet for entertainment, once that happens he will in all probability only go on rare occassions. The money paid to players is obscene especially considering the problems with the british economy and the amount of people struggling to keep their heads above water. In Aussie rules clubs have an allocation of money for players wages, they cannot go beyond that amount and you see clubs letting players go to make room for other players coming in, if it was open house you would get the richer clubs dominating as they do in the premiership. It is noticeable how Man U and Liverpool have become beatable since the money dried up, if the Arabs hadn't bought City then things may have settled down.

[Astral Weeks]

The F.A should be worried, if a week on week supporter decides he can no loger afford to go to matches he will find another outlet for entertainment, once that happens he will in all probability only go on rare occassions.

Which is exactly what I've done. I've never had a season ticket as I have to work a fair number of weekends, but 10 - 15 years ago I used to go to most home games (I got enough ticket stubs to go to Wembley in 94, 96 and 2000).
Nowadays, I just can't justify the expense, and I go to maybe 4 - 5 games a season. I'm sure there must be thousands of others like me.

[Simba]

Brilliant debate this and a very important insight from the Liverpool fan.

Football clubs are a business like any other in terms of income and expediture and the P&L. Costs to the clubs are simply too high and of course the part of the balance sheet which is us, has to recoup those costs. So we can't afford it. No wonder we boo if our players show no interest before turning teh key in their bloody Lambo's and Astons.

In any other business would the wage bill be 80% of turnover? Or in Man Cities case, according to latest figures, higher than gross turnover!

I would somehow investigate capping players salaries.
I would bring back a portion of the ground to standing. Cheaper but more fans. Give the next generation a chance to attend.
I would spread the money around the clubs more than we do to stop the perpetual richer getting richer.
I would certainly advocate a Nationwide Fans body with teeth.

At the moment each club and it's fans is at the mercy of the Banks and without a common goal for the survival of "Football".

We are all in this alone.

[ROBBO]

The big problem is as long as someone is willing to pay a fortune to televise it nothing will change. There are still a lot of mega rich looking for a toy to play with, the way Villa is structured Randy would have no trouble selling for a handsome profit if he had a mind to.

[Jimavfc]

Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.

That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.

Sometimes dog eat dog mentality within  football supporting fraternity baffles me. After all we all want the same thing for our clubs but somehow translate that into absolute hatred for each other.

Can someone tell us about the  work FSF are doing? Surely it should be within their remit to tackle issues like this?

One of them spends a lot of time on messageboards but apart from that I don't know. I was involved with the FSA for many years and I'm still proud of the work we did, but the FSF seems happy to make a statement on an issue and that's it.

FSF go out there way to help on issues. Legal issues to away guides in Europe, found them more than helpful myself.

[dave.woodhall]

FSF go out there way to help on issues. Legal issues to away guides in Europe, found them more than helpful myself.

It isn't out of their way, it's their job. I've no doubt that they do some good in individual matters - and for the money they get so they should. The thing that annoys me is that they're unwilling to campaign like the FSA used to at a time when a proper fans group is needed as much as it ever was.   

[garyshawsknee]

When Sky invented football in 92 and clubs received more money than ever before from the T.V deal,clubs were supposed to use this extra money as a way to keep ticket pricesdown and healthy. A few years down the line wages and ticket prices have crept up hand in hand,and i think finally people have realised enough is enough,and we're one of the lucky one's with Villa price's compared to other clubs.

 For things to change,things have to get a lot worse yet,lower crowds,people not buying crap from the ground,until the people in charge realise that people are sick of being over paid,only for the money to fall into a Lee Hendrie type pocket.

 I can't see this happening in my life time though,and i'm only in my early 30s.

[Legion]

Some suggestions as to how to fill empty stadia

[pauliewalnuts]

The big problem is as long as someone is willing to pay a fortune to televise it nothing will change. There are still a lot of mega rich looking for a toy to play with, the way Villa is structured Randy would have no trouble selling for a handsome profit if he had a mind to.

I think we say things like that on here so often that we come to accept them as an unarguable truth.

We owe a lot of money. We owe it to Randy, yes, but any buyer is going to have to see off that debt as well.

I'd say that any billionaire looking for a piece of the PL to buy would do much better to look at Everton than us. Yes, they need a new stadium, but they're otherwise relatively debt free. I suggest building a new ground for Everton would cost less than paying off the money we owe Randy.

I'm also not too sure there are plenty of mega rich people looking for an expensive toy to play with these days, either, to be honest.

[Jimavfc]

FSF go out there way to help on issues. Legal issues to away guides in Europe, found them more than helpful myself.

It isn't out of their way, it's their job. I've no doubt that they do some good in individual matters - and for the money they get so they should. The thing that annoys me is that they're unwilling to campaign like the FSA used to at a time when a proper fans group is needed as much as it ever was.   

I think they do go well out their way, its not their job to deal with individual matters at all hours of the day for example as i know they do, calling people on evenings and weekends with individual help and advice. Youve only got to look at their website to see that they try and get involved in lots of campaigns on behalf of the fans

[dave.woodhall]

I think they do go well out their way, its not their job to deal with individual matters at all hours of the day for example as i know they do, calling people on evenings and weekends with individual help and advice. Youve only got to look at their website to see that they try and get involved in lots of campaigns on behalf of the fans

Like I said, it's their job. They get paid for it. I've seen the FSF's website and get their e mails/magazine and I see a lot of self-congratulatory backslapping, plenty of talking shop, but not much actual, tangible work. Compare it to what the volunteers of the FSA did; you'd say that was going out of their way.