A selling club.

[Chris Smith]

As has been said many times already in this thread, lots of other EPL clubs have sold some of their best players given the right offer so we're no different. The quote from Milner suggests the sell to buy policy is getting rid of the dross and thats fair enough, however Milner (as our best player) wasnt prepared to patient enough to sit around whilst the squad is rebuilt.

The way I understand it, MON was under instruction to get rid of some of the dross first and foremost...he failed to do this, and we then have the subsequent disagreement over the Milner funds. I dont blame Randy for not wanting to give the Milner cash for MON to piss up the wall again having failed to meet his first objective. I expect GH will be under the same instructions however as the new manager he may (or should) be given some funds to play with in January with players being removed in summer.

A manager can't sell players if other clubs don't bid for them. Do you expect him to go hawking them round door to door? The CLUB couldn't sell them due to a combination of a sluggish market, Young deciding against Liverpool and Hodgson leaving Fulham ending Sidwell's chances. What worries me is that if that really is policy we're going to be in the same position in January.

[Somniloquism]

Whatever the new manager wanted, he wasn't going to change Milner's mind at that late point. 

I thought the person who sounded most like he wanted the Milner sale in the early part of the summer was MON. Something which the generals recent comments back up.

Well from ITK's he was another player fucked of with MON and maybe he realised he was going and wanted to cash in to enable him to get players as he needed to sell to buy. From Milners comments in today's papers he wasn't exactly convinced he should stay. When Barrys head was turned two seasons ago we managed to price him out of a move and probably lost £10 mil on his sale the following season. The club could probably have halted the transfer after MON left but carried it on as we would not have got the same type of money next season. As I have said at time we had the better of the deal but that ensures the money is used to strengthen the side and Ireland plays to his potential. At the moment neither of these has happened. Although I expect GH to not be anywhere as naive as KMac has been, and play players in their strongest positions.

[Dante Lavelli]

We are not a selling club but if someone want's to throw silly money at us for one of our players then we would be mad not to accept.

That's the very definition of a selling club, where the money is more important than the player. We're worse of as a football team for selling Milner although I accept that the accounts will look better.

Those are the facts Chris and no-one can argue with those

I can.  In a marginally normal pre-season, Milner would have been sold as happened but we'd have a manager in place who would have been able to re-invest the cash and sign Toulalan for £18m (insert you own players here).

If that was the case then, yes we'd have lost Milner, but we'd have gained Ireland and Toulalan.  In my opinion, we'd have been in a stronger position.

I suppose, you are correct "the facts" are as you stated but the circumstances to arrive at those facts were certainly unique and very unlikely to be repeated, and therefore are not a fact that you'd be able to derive a pattern/rules from.

[TimTheVillain]

It would be interesting to know wether Randy is willing to hand over the whole of the tranfer profits to Houllier ( i.e. £21 million / Gardner and Milner) or not.

If he is, we're a club who sells to buy - if he isn't - we have to concede that we're now a selling club in the strictest sense of the phrase.

[Dante Lavelli]

Ironically, I think the easiest way for us to show ambition would just be release X and W players.  Writing off that money would free up spaces in the squad and allow Houllier to sign the players that he wants.

In my mind the club is still correct to want to get rid of high earning, non-playing players before we commit to signing new ones.  I don't think that makes us a selling club, just one that is well run. 

[Ads]

Lawrence implication is that we’ve given up and that Lerner in particular has too. He was talking nonsense.

[Risso]

Pelty the other day said "GH will be given every opportunity to suceed".  I guess we'll see how true that is in January and next summer.

[sfx412]

A manager can't sell players if other clubs don't bid for them. Do you expect him to go hawking them round door to door? The CLUB couldn't sell them due to a combination of a sluggish market, Young deciding against Liverpool and Hodgson leaving Fulham ending Sidwell's chances. What worries me is that if that really is policy we're going to be in the same position in January.

A manager will find it hard to sell players who he put on ridiculously high wages and who are not in the first team regularly, because he refuses to pick them.
He will find it easy to sell players who have improved and are wanted property.
The General said Mon showed a reluctance to shift the high earners, he also said if the money is required RL will fund but if you look at the balance sheet ( I hope VD, doesn't read this) our wage bill is too high.
Now not being one of Randy's vipers, I believe him to any pro Mon conspiracy whether it be from a twat like Lawrenson who see's us as a selling club, but ignores the likes of Everton, Man Utd and most other clubs, but then they weren't managed by his mate, were they.

Wrap it up anyway you want, Mon had plenty of time to bring in more than Ireland before he ran off 5 days before kick off, he didn't. Did he know what he planned to do, could be.

[KevinGage]

A selling club traditionally used to be seen as a B-lose or a Norwich or even Crewe, a club that had to sell it's best players at regular intervals to merely survive.

In recent times you could probably say of all the top flight clubs Wigan come closest to that category, though with DW's backing they're unlikely to go under. It's just a case of balancing the books.

If we suddenly belong in that esteemed company because two of our better players became Billy Big Bollocks and agitated for a move, then so are Man U, Arsenal and any other club that faced similar in recent seasons.

I find it hard to justify such claims, particularly with the amounts we spent on transfer fees three summers in a row 2007,2008,2009. Amounts that exceeded many of the clubs who finished above us.

More was available again this summer, on the condition that some of the players not featuring were shipped out. MON wasn't willing/able to do this, so the shitstorm in August kicked off.

[spangley1812]

A manager can't sell players if other clubs don't bid for them. Do you expect him to go hawking them round door to door? The CLUB couldn't sell them due to a combination of a sluggish market, Young deciding against Liverpool and Hodgson leaving Fulham ending Sidwell's chances. What worries me is that if that really is policy we're going to be in the same position in January.

A manager will find it hard to sell players who he put on ridiculously high wages and who are not in the first team regularly, because he refuses to pick them.
He will find it easy to sell players who have improved and are wanted property.
The General said Mon showed a reluctance to shift the high earners, he also said if the money is required RL will fund but if you look at the balance sheet ( I hope VD, doesn't read this) our wage bill is too high.
Now not being one of Randy's vipers, I believe him to any pro Mon conspiracy whether it be from a twat like Lawrenson who see's us as a selling club, but ignores the likes of Everton, Man Utd and most other clubs, but then they weren't managed by his mate, were they.

Wrap it up anyway you want, Mon had plenty of time to bring in more than Ireland before he ran off 5 days before kick off, he didn't. Did he know what he planned to do, could be.

MON didnt bring in Ireland the board did that deal wasnt done until about 10 days after he left, MON didnt want Ireland

[Chris Smith]

A manager can't sell players if other clubs don't bid for them. Do you expect him to go hawking them round door to door? The CLUB couldn't sell them due to a combination of a sluggish market, Young deciding against Liverpool and Hodgson leaving Fulham ending Sidwell's chances. What worries me is that if that really is policy we're going to be in the same position in January.

A manager will find it hard to sell players who he put on ridiculously high wages and who are not in the first team regularly, because he refuses to pick them.
He will find it easy to sell players who have improved and are wanted property.
The General said Mon showed a reluctance to shift the high earners, he also said if the money is required RL will fund but if you look at the balance sheet ( I hope VD, doesn't read this) our wage bill is too high.
Now not being one of Randy's vipers, I believe him to any pro Mon conspiracy whether it be from a twat like Lawrenson who see's us as a selling club, but ignores the likes of Everton, Man Utd and most other clubs, but then they weren't managed by his mate, were they.

Wrap it up anyway you want, Mon had plenty of time to bring in more than Ireland before he ran off 5 days before kick off, he didn't. Did he know what he planned to do, could be.

The need for us to reduce the wage bill BEFORE signing players was reconfirmed by Pelty the other day. In that case how was MON supposed to buy players before he left? You really should try thinking things through before going of an another of your rambling, pointless interventions.

[Somniloquism]

A manager will find it hard to sell players who he put on ridiculously high wages and who are not in the first team regularly, because he refuses to pick them.
He will find it easy to sell players who have improved and are wanted property.
The General said Mon showed a reluctance to shift the high earners, he also said if the money is required RL will fund but if you look at the balance sheet ( I hope VD, doesn't read this) our wage bill is too high.
Now not being one of Randy's vipers, I believe him to any pro Mon conspiracy whether it be from a twat like Lawrenson who see's us as a selling club, but ignores the likes of Everton, Man Utd and most other clubs, but then they weren't managed by his mate, were they.

Wrap it up anyway you want, Mon had plenty of time to bring in more than Ireland before he ran off 5 days before kick off, he didn't. Did he know what he planned to do, could be.

He couldn't bring anyone in if his brief was to get rid of players or only buy when Milner is sold which is what you allude to yourself above.

Do you believe a Milner or a Kmac who indicated similar constraints in Newspaper articles? Personally I think Milner is doing his reasons for leaving speech (similar to Barry) but obviously not mentioning the doubling of wages option (similar to Barry). But Kmac had no obvious affiliation with MON as he was left high and dry by him and had been at the club under other managers.

[Chris Smith]

A selling club traditionally used to be seen as a B-lose or a Norwich or even Crewe, a club that had to sell it's best players at regular intervals to merely survive.

In recent times you could probably say of all the top flight clubs Wigan come closest to that category, though with DW's backing they're unlikely to go under. It's just a case of balancing the books.

If we suddenly belong in that esteemed company because two of our better players became Billy Big Bollocks and agitated for a move, then so are Man U, Arsenal and any other club that faced similar in recent seasons.

I find it hard to justify such claims, particularly with the amounts we spent on transfer fees three summers in a row 2007,2008,2009. Amounts that exceeded many of the clubs who finished above us.

More was available again this summer, on the condition that some of the players not featuring were shipped out. MON wasn't willing/able to do this, so the shitstorm in August kicked off.

There is no evidence to suggest that he was unwilling  to sell them, even Pelty says that he'd agreed to it at the start of the summer and if we were unable I'm not sure what he could have done to make it happen? It seems to me that when he then wanted to push on with signings, as the season was about to start, and was told not until we sell he decided to jack it in.

[sfx412]

The need for us to reduce the wage bill BEFORE signing players was reconfirmed by Pelty the other day. In that case how was MON supposed to buy players before he left? You really should try thinking things through before going of an another of your rambling, pointless interventions.

I've no idea, I just mentioned that the General had suggested had the need arisen money would have been there.
Perhaps his son knows more than he does I've no idea.

I'm sorry my rambling pointless intervention has rattled your Mon adorned cage dear, life's a bitch at times especially for lovers of the bloke who quit 5 days before the season started. Don't you find ?

I think its time you called General K to task Chris, having intimated several times Mon was reluctant to sell players he needs sorting, especially if Pelty says differently. Be interested to see you do it.

[KevinGage]

A selling club traditionally used to be seen as a B-lose or a Norwich or even Crewe, a club that had to sell it's best players at regular intervals to merely survive.

In recent times you could probably say of all the top flight clubs Wigan come closest to that category, though with DW's backing they're unlikely to go under. It's just a case of balancing the books.

If we suddenly belong in that esteemed company because two of our better players became Billy Big Bollocks and agitated for a move, then so are Man U, Arsenal and any other club that faced similar in recent seasons.

I find it hard to justify such claims, particularly with the amounts we spent on transfer fees three summers in a row 2007,2008,2009. Amounts that exceeded many of the clubs who finished above us.

More was available again this summer, on the condition that some of the players not featuring were shipped out. MON wasn't willing/able to do this, so the shitstorm in August kicked off.

There is no evidence to suggest that he was unwilling  to sell them, even Pelty says that he'd agreed to it at the start of the summer and if we were unable I'm not sure what he could have done to make it happen? It seems to me that when he then wanted to push on with signings, as the season was about to start, and was told not until we sell he decided to jack it in.

I do wonder how different things had turned out had Luke Young and NRC accepted the moves on the table.

That would have been Shorey, NRC, and L.Young from the list of six and would have probably given him more scope. We wouldn't have received huge money for any of them, but they'd have been off the books which by consensus was the most important aspect of it all.

But perhaps realizing how difficult they could make things for MON, they decided to stay.
Can't blame them really.