Top 6 with signings - Top 10 with youth

[dave.woodhall]

Sounds more like a choice between compete and give up.

[Concrete John]

I don't think it's too absolutes.  

You play the kids if they're good enough and you buy the best players you can.  The trick becomes when to not sign a player for a certain position as the youth coming through is as good as anything you can get in the market.

[ktvillan]

The latter without question.

The future of this club is its academy and what comes through it. As it should be.
In this way and probably only this way, we'll compete.

Have a nose at the article on the OS today regarding the youth players being called up to England. It reinforces this point somehwat.

It's obviously a more "ethical" route to take, but I'm afraid that I strongly disagree that it'll enable us to compete.

Eventually, when all the billionaires have gone to play round somebody elses end (and they will), all that will be left is what a club can produce itself.
We will, in my opinion, live off our excellent academy which we have thrown so many resources behind. All our scouting is centred around it, we have arguably the best facilities in the country, some very good youth coaches. Even the players that dont make it will be sold for a fair amount at times meaning more revenue.

There isnt any rule saying we have to buy from abroad or other clubs. Yes, its likely we'll occasionally have to but we can build very successful sides around who comes through the academy as Man Utd did. I dont see any reason why we cant do the same.
But it will take a lot of patience and time.

I'd like to think you are right Mazrim, but I've said many times we've produced some great youth teams over the years but never once brought a player through who went on to be an absolute top notch star*, while the likes of  Liverpool, Man Yoo, and West Ham  have brought several through over the years.   What convinces you it will be different in the future?

Personally I think we should strike a balance between bringing in a couple of good experienced players and giving da yoot a decent run - i.e. a bit of rotation here and there.   I would certainly hope to see a lot more of Albrighton, Delf and Delph this season, and maybe this Weimar deserves a go.

*Gary Shaw could have been, if only.

[Apyadg]

Have a nose at the article on the OS today regarding the youth players being called up to England. It reinforces this point somehwat.

Our youth players are always awesome. Winning youth cups, breaking records, starring in the England youth sides, maybe even looking like the next big thing when they break through. Then they try to make the step up, and turn out to be shit.

It's nice to see them called up for England, but for every Gabby, we have a few dozen future world beaters that turn out to be Peter Whittingham or Darius Vassell.

[pauliewalnuts]

Have a nose at the article on the OS today regarding the youth players being called up to England. It reinforces this point somehwat.

Our youth players are always awesome. Winning youth cups, breaking records, starring in the England youth sides, maybe even looking like the next big thing when they break through. Then they try to make the step up, and turn out to be shit.

It's nice to see them called up for England, but for every Gabby, we have a few dozen future world beaters that turn out to be Peter Whittingham or Darius Vassell.

That is why relying on your home grown products to any great degree is a road to nowhere.

We've got one of the best youth policies around, and how many players go on to have long, successful careers with us?

[Apyadg]

Even going further than just long successful careers with us, how many players have come through our youth system and had long and successful careers, at a similar or higher level than Villa? I genuinely can't think of any that have done better than being relegation fodder or reserves at mid table clubs.

Arguably still a successful career for their bank balance, but hardly a triumph for our youth system.

Is Vassell the most successful in the last 15 years (I'm ruling our Gabby at this point, he'll be a success, but he's still only 23)? It's a depressing thought.


Gary Cahill, the Moores, Davis, Rob Edwards, it's enough to make you wonder why we've bothered. Oh and Ridgewell and Hendrie, they were pretty good!

[ozzjim]

I think it is more sensible to strike a balance between the two. So, still sell those deemed surplus to requirements, such as Sidwell, Shorey, Luke Young, Beye, Heskey, Milner Thus saving 10 million in wages over the next 12 months, and making 8 million or so in fees.
 

Then where possible replace with youth, so Lichaz becomes back up for Cuellar, Albrighton is the reserve winger for Young and Downing and comes in when needed.

But still sign a couple of players that will improve the creativity of the side, such as Ireland in exchange for Milner and Keane to offer a different option up front.

[not3bad]

*Gary Shaw could have been, if only.

Brian Little?  Gareth Barry?

[Chris Smith]

*Gary Shaw could have been, if only.

Brian Little?  Gareth Barry?

Mark Walters.

[Apyadg]

Whilst we probably deserve credit for making Barry the player he is, it's a bit of a joke to claim he's a player who came through our youth setup.

He joined us aged 17 after being England under 18 captain, and we paid over a million in compensation for him. Hardly a rough diamond we found in our youth academy. May as well claim Hitzlsperger is one of ours. Sure he technically played in our academy..but come on.

[not3bad]

He joined us aged 17 after being England under 18 captain, and we paid over a million in compensation for him.

Delph was mentioned as one of the players who will hopefully make it good - if he can be listed then so can Barry.

And Barry joined us aged 15, not 17.

[Apyadg]

16 apparently. And a few months. Can we round it up to the next whole year please?

He's much more "ours" than Delph though. It's hard to make the distinction between a player with potential you sign at a young age, and a player you've brought through yourself, but we signed Delph when he was 19? For several million pounds? We can't seriously call him a product of our youth system, it's absurd.

[newtonsballs]

I just would like to see the kids given a chance, to be brought on when the team is doing OK - not when we are struggling and the game needs turning.

[peter w]

If we sacrifice league position to play the kids then we're going to find it almost impossible to keep players like Gabby and Ashley Young.

The youngsters should get an opportunity if they are good enough to be playing in a side with top 4 ambitions, to do that they need to make the most of the chances they will be given in cup games.

Agreed. Athough it would be nice to have kids coming through regularly but it ended up relegating West Ham and Middlesbrough who relied upon it. Man U was a freak. Almost a whole team of top internationals/very good Prem players is a definite one-off and is why they are where they atre noe as much as anything.

[KevinGage]

You have to judge each young player on his merits.

Play the kids is an oft heard cry when things aren't going so well. But the danger is (a) they just flat out might not be good enough or (b) they are good enough , but throwing them in too early or during a difficult period at the club might set them back.

I'd be keen to give Albrighton an extended run this year. Not just the odd sub appearance, but a run of 5-10 games against a mix of opposition. To suss out if we have another Mark McWalters on our hands or another Dave Farrell.

I'd also like to see Clark feature a bit more, looked comfortable v Fulham last year and a leftfooted CB would give us better balance.

Delfouneso has been in and around the first team picture for two years now, and hopefully that progression will continue. Though it seems to be a slow steady one with him rather than an immediate impact. No bad thing, when he's ready he's ready. He has the frame and touch to be a really decent CF.

After that I'd tread cautiously, I wouldn't be throwing young players into the starting XI just for the sake of it.