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Author Topic: South African tour of 1899  (Read 10083 times)

Offline pauliewalnuts

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2010, 11:41:19 PM »
Have you read Empire by Niall Ferguson, Monty?

Is very good, if a little bit rose tinted.

Online Monty

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2010, 11:43:00 PM »
Not it itself, but I know his views and for every one that's informative and seemingly true there seems to be another which is a bit Cecil Rhodes-ish. Interesting stuff, though.

Offline Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2010, 11:53:45 PM »
The only vague snippet I have been able to find which may be relevant is here.

http://www.actsa.org/Pictures/UpImages/ACTSA_Timeline%20table%20with%20football.pdf

1898 The Orange Free State Bantu Football
Club tours England, becoming the first South
African team to play in Europe.

Offline Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2010, 12:01:52 AM »
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section?content=a747726452&fulltext=713240928#references

The author notes that the first South African team to play in England in 1898 was the Orange Free State Bantu Football Club based in Bloemfontein and states that 'virtually nothing is known about this group'.[14] However Raath, drawing on English newspapers, the Newcastle Daily Journal, Bolton Evening News, and Reading Standard, suggests a team out of depth on tour, playing and losing 37 matches, bar one draw and conceding over 200 goals in 1899

Offline Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2010, 12:18:10 AM »
http://www.sa2010.gov.za/en/confederations-cup/football-sa

The first recorded history of organised black football is in the Orange Free State Bantu Football Club, who went on to famously tour Britain before the turn of the 20th century.

Their side was made up of 20 players, who had a lengthy journey by steamer and were thrust straight into action just days after arrival with a match at Newcastle United. After that they played many of the leading clubs , among their opponents modern giants like Glasgow Celtic, Manchester City, Bolton Wanderers, Aston Villa, Tottenham Hotspur and Middlesborough.

Online dave.woodhall

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2010, 05:02:10 PM »
John Russell (who else) has unearthed a load of information about this. I'll post it when I return.

Offline eliotpollak

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2010, 08:31:35 PM »
Excellent

Online dave.woodhall

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2010, 04:58:24 PM »
John, God bless him, "couldn't find much." This is his 'not much' about an obscure friendly from the century before last.

Report 30 June 1899        Arrangements have been made for the visit of a Kaffir football team to England next season.  The visitors will tour under the auspices of the Orange Free State Club.

Their opening match will be against AV in Aeptember and a fixture has also been settled with Sheffield United. The Kaffirs will play in Bristol and then tour South Wales.  The team is said to be strong, the players being of splendid physique.
 
 
report 19 August 1899    ... the opening engagement will be with AV in the first week of September.  W.Williams of Llanelly is acting for the visitors and has arranged over 40 fixtures with the crack combinations in England and Scotland.  The Kaffir team who with reserves will number 18 are first class players with wonderful staying powers
 
 
Report 29 August 1899     The football match arranged between Aston Villa and the Kaffirs for Friday (September 1st)  has been indefinitely postponed on account of the team having missed their connection in CAPETOWN, due, it is thought to the floods.  They do not arrive until next week.
 
(So the cancellation was nothing to do with the fact that Villa were due at Sunderland on Sat Sep 2 - what sort of team were the villa going to put out?  - JR)
 
A decided compliment was on Monday (20th November 1899) paid to Wheldon the tricky AV forward by the Kaffirs who played a game with the Villa at Aston in aid of the local Reservists fund.
They averred that Wheldon was "the mightiest football chief they had ever seen", and indeed some of his passing work amazed most of the crowd.  The Kaffirs, who paid their own expenses to Birmingham so that the gross great receipts might go to the fund, were beaten by 7 goals to 4."
 
Just as fascinating is the next item...

"Howard Spencer, the Aston Villa player who received a kick on the knee at Liverpool has been found extremely lame.......  

"When he reached Birmingham the limb was so stiff that he could not walk home, and there being no cabs, he had to stay at a neighbouring hotel.  

"He will probably be out of the team for two or three weeks"
 
The Kaffir story continues....
 
"The Kaffirs, who are making a long tour of the country visited Portsmouth on Wednesday (6 December 1899) and were entertained by the Portsmouth Reserves at Fratton Park.  The Africans had not much idea of football, and although Portsmouth took matters very calmly, they won by 7 goals to 3."
 
They then played Bristol City at St. Johns Lane, Bristol on New Years Day 1900 at 2.15. The pre-match publicity states, "they have been touring England, Scotland and France and although the do not profess to be quite the equals of AV, Sunderland and other clubs of note they have had the honour of playing against them."

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2010, 05:03:19 PM »
Brilliant.

Offline Woofles The Wonder Dog

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2010, 05:12:06 PM »
Please pass on a doff of the cap to John.

Offline Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2010, 05:51:22 PM »
Thanks and very interesting stuff.
If the match had been played on Friday 1st Sept, I bet in those days we would probably have still put the first team out even though it was the opening league game of the season the next day at Sunderland.
Good stuff about Howard `sick note` Spencer too.


Offline Ads

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South African tour of 1899
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2010, 06:51:49 PM »
Quote from: "Monty"


As for the British Empire itself, it was on course to be an all right thing long-term until the 1820s, where dangerous ideas such as political dominion, state imperialism and especially religious superiority and evangelicism. Until then, in India at least, there was a sense of economic partnership - indeed, many Indians welcomed the early British settlers as economic and political liberators from the decayed Moghul era - and there were many examples of "partnership thinking" with the Indians. But then we lost America, and the hurt pride of the nation led to more domineering thinking, and by the mutiny the whole thing had just gone nuts.


 We lost the Thirteen colonies some 50 years before 1820 and a good thing to, as they were costing us money. There was more revenue from the fishing in Nova Scotia than the 13 colonies, including the Virginian tobacco.

India, like most of the Empire, was gained by accident really in the 1850's, when the Crown took over from the East India Company which had been running British interests, politically, economically and militarily for two hundred years.

The sense of “revenge” at the time was held in French, who were steaming following our victory in the Seven Years War in Canada. Their entire intervention into the civil war now daubed the American War of Independence was an attempt to put down Nova Carthago as they saw us. Hilariously for them, the war bankrupted them and lead to the revolution and their decapitation. Waap waap waaa.

Waaaaaaaaaaaay off topic.

Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Have you read Empire by Niall Ferguson, Monty?

Is very good, if a little bit rose tinted.


 Nothing rose tinted about it all. An excellent analysis that stresses the critical point that it wasn’t a case of British rule or democratic self-determination, but always something a whole lot worse like the Belgians or the Japanese.  People without an historic education too easily fall into the problem of viewing history in a vacuum.


Back on topic.

That information is really fascinating. It makes you wonder what other gems have been lost.

 


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