Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[Monty]

He signed Carew, someone with one of the most infamous disciplinary records in Europe (just ask John Arne Riise) and he's been relatively lenient with him. And Clough certainly wasn't averse to personality players or players with problems. He and Taylor used to sit every new player down and say "right, before you sign, which is your vice: drink, girls, gambling?". They used to deliberately sign players with problems and help them work it out. If MON's from that school of management, then he's far more advanced than most.

[Greg N'Ash]

Oh he certainly does run the club from top to bottom (and I'm not convinced at all that that really is a good thing), but that's different to what Greg's suggesting. No, I agree with you, Paulie, but Greg appears to be saying that MON would rather sign bad players than good ones to make himself look bigger.

not at all. i think he'd sign pliable young good players given the choice, and established confident big name players a poor last. as i said look at our present squad - wouldn't say boo to a goose, not one big personality there

[Monty]

Oh he certainly does run the club from top to bottom (and I'm not convinced at all that that really is a good thing), but that's different to what Greg's suggesting. No, I agree with you, Paulie, but Greg appears to be saying that MON would rather sign bad players than good ones to make himself look bigger.

not at all. i think he'd sign pliable young good players given the choice, and established confident big name players a poor last. as i said look at our present squad - wouldn't say boo to a goose, not one big personality there

Define 'big personality'. I'd have thought that Richard Dunne, for instance, is quite a presence to play against and alongside. Brad Friedel as well.

As for the pliable young players thing, I totally agree with you, that's what he does. But he does that mostly because that's the best way to build a club in our situation onto better things.

[KevinGage]

He was effectively offered Carew on a plate.

We haven't signed a player of that ilk (decent pedigree in Europe, CL experience) since.

I think the point about Clough was that -with a few exceptions- he didn't sign elite players. They were invariably seen as journeymen or damaged goods when they pitched up at Forest.

The big names that he did sign (Shilton, Francis) weren't exactly rock the boat types either.

[Greg N'Ash]

hardly high profile off the pitch. you never hear a word from them

[Monty]

What do you want them to do, though? Genuine question, off the pitch, what words do you want to hear from them?

[Greg N'Ash]

He was effectively offered Carew on a plate.

We haven't signed a player of that ilk (decent pedigree in Europe, CL experience) since.

I think the point about Clough was that -with a few exceptions- he didn't sign elite players. They were invariably seen as journeymen or damaged goods when they pitched up at Foreat.

The big names that he did aign (Shilton, Francis) weren't exactly rock the boat types either.

yep. it was always about the manager at forest. same here

[Greg N'Ash]

What do you want them to do, though? Genuine question, off the pitch, what words do you want to hear from them?

just pointing out he prefers timid personalities and a big name player with a high media profile wouldn't be welcomed

[Monty]

Again, Greg, what does that mean? Literally, in practice, what does that mean? The players with high media profiles tend to be, surprisingly, the best players.

[Greg N'Ash]

Again, Greg, what does that mean? Literally, in practice, what does that mean? The players with high media profiles tend to be, surprisingly, the best players.

well lets put it this way, if Juninho was around now in his prime and available i don't think we would bid because he'd be too high profile. i also don't think the lack of media from the players is entirely their choice. i believe he controls it like everything else - all about the manager

anyway, nite.

[KevinGage]

I dunno Greg.

Apart from the lack of Prem experience barrier in 1995 (and the fact he was a Brazillian international at the time), Juninho might have been the type of player MON would have gone for. I could be wrong, but didn't he actually sign him at Celtic? (admittedly when he'd already played in the UK and his career was on a downward trajectory.)

During his time at Boro he lived on Teeside with his family, and wasn't known for stumbling out of nightclubs with WAGS.

You mentioned Owen earlier too, and I reckon that might have been a player O'Neill would have gone for had we been encouraged to do so. Good pedigree, but docile enough not to make a habit of challenging authority.

[Greg N'Ash]

I dunno Greg.

Apart from the lack of Prem experience barrier in 1995 (and the fact he was a Brazillian international at the time), Juninho might have been the type of player MON would have gone for. I could be wrong, but didn't he actually sign him at Celtic? (admittedly when he'd already played in the UK and his career was on a downward trajectory.)

During his time at Boro he lived on Teeside with his family, and wasn't known for stumbling out of nightclubs with WAGS.

You mentioned Owen earlier too, and I reckon that might have been a player O'Neill would have gone for had we been encouraged to do so. Good pedigree, but docile enough not to make a habit of challenging authority.

i mean Juninho's media profile. mon signed the clapped out free transfer 2004 version not the 'one of the best player in the premier' (copyright) version we went after and even then it ended nastyily. did the same with collymore but the expensive high profile one we bought? nah. could you imagine the media circus with owen not getting picked at villa instead of united. never going to happen, not that i wanted it to

[sfx412]

It does if you actually think about what that entails. Why would he do that? Because he has a personality flaw like a stereotypical Bad Guy in some Hollywood blockbuster? There's a difference between saying he doesn't like to sign players who are a disruptive influence and saying he likes to be the biggest man at the club.

Ron Saunders and Brian Clough both liked to. It didn't harm them.

were they both not achieving things by the fifth season though.

no manager is wrong in the way he does manage if he wins, when its obvious improvements are being made, that value for money is being achieved. Even really good managers hit walls with clubs where they reach their limits and they need to move on.

O'Neill is not a brave manager, his ability lies in getting the best out of average to good players he's no tactical genuis but makes up for it wwith a superb work ethic and his sides reflect that. flambooyance doesn't fit

Nothing wrong in that.

[eastie]

In fairness to mon he did sign collymore at Leicester and bellamy at Celtic who were both with a troubled reputation and managed to handle savage well too, so I don't think he has a fear of players of that type.

Agree with the above post, mon tends to build hard working teams built not to lose rather than go for a flamboyant attack to win philosophy.

Though in all honesty I prefer us to win 1st and foremost , if we win in style great but winning is the main thing.

[Mazrim]

So let me try and get this.
The problem with MON is that he doesn't sign players who will challenge his authority?
That he does his job and runs the football side of the club? That the players dont make the news when not playing? Oh no!

MON clearly signs players that could be trouble and have had their problems. Collymore, Bellamy, Carew, Reo Coker...etc. Why would he avoid signing a player just because he had a high profile? Sorry, I think that's complete bobbins. His interest in Sneijder was well known for instance and apparently Joe Cole. Who knows who else there was. Who are these players he's passing up because they are too big for him?

The thing is, he is only now (perhaps) getting to a stage where he is in a position to get these type of players. At every club he has been at he has not had the resources to go after the top echelon players or the club has not had the standing to attract them.
Even at Villa he has, to this point, had to build a squad and make the resources stretch to that end. Now the squad is in a position where punctuating it with quality, high profile players is a possibity.

So maybe MON will avoid players he thinks are more trouble than they're worth (good) but would he avoid buying a player because he wants to hog the limelight? No. No way. Not by my reckoning. He doesn't even like the limelight apparently.

Also, not that I think its a realistic issue, but I do not want any player coming to this club thinking they can call the shots, no matter who they are. The manager is boss, it has to be this way. I dont care if its MON or whoever, if the manager is not in control, everything goes to shit at Mach 9.