Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 08, 2018, 10:58:17 PMQuote from: paul richard on May 08, 2018, 09:31:19 PMChristmas 2012 v Chelsea/Spuds/Wigan. Lost 15-0. Followed up by January Cup humiliations v Millwall and Bradford. Throw in yet more league defeats v Saints and Newcastle in the same month. Utterly inexcusable and unforgivable. We did actually improve in the last two months of that season, maybe by more luck than judgement but we started getting results and were good to watch.The next season though showed how limited he was as a manager at the top level and we weren't destined for greatness under him.No different to Sherwood really. Once plan A was nulified there was no other method attempted apart from that bizarre possession based game we attempted when we went 7 games without scoring.This is the key thing, we can look back at that christmas as a point when he should've gone but the truth is February to May that season we looked like he'd eventually worked it out. The following summer we needed to add 2-3 quality players (a wide attacking player to compete with Gabby and Weimann, an upgrade on Westwood and a better Left back), instead he went on a European spree of gambles for about 7-8 players, seemingly on the basis that Benteke had worked out well so he could do it again. When we were still in the shit that Christmas was the time to bin him because he'd shown he didn't have it in him by then.
Quote from: paul richard on May 08, 2018, 09:31:19 PMChristmas 2012 v Chelsea/Spuds/Wigan. Lost 15-0. Followed up by January Cup humiliations v Millwall and Bradford. Throw in yet more league defeats v Saints and Newcastle in the same month. Utterly inexcusable and unforgivable. We did actually improve in the last two months of that season, maybe by more luck than judgement but we started getting results and were good to watch.The next season though showed how limited he was as a manager at the top level and we weren't destined for greatness under him.No different to Sherwood really. Once plan A was nulified there was no other method attempted apart from that bizarre possession based game we attempted when we went 7 games without scoring.
Christmas 2012 v Chelsea/Spuds/Wigan. Lost 15-0. Followed up by January Cup humiliations v Millwall and Bradford. Throw in yet more league defeats v Saints and Newcastle in the same month. Utterly inexcusable and unforgivable.
He must have had more ‘should have been sacked just for that result’ moments than any other Manager in our history.
Quote from: Richard E on May 08, 2018, 08:03:05 PMHe must have had more ‘should have been sacked just for that result’ moments than any other Manager in our history.Exactly, most people could probably name 6 or 7 sack-worthy results off the top of their heads that he got away with. I still can't believe he had so many second chances and still managed to fuck things up - the perfect combination of a know-nothing owner and a truly terrible manager. And how many negative records did he break? actually, don't remind me. Never again.Strange, but the feeling after the Chelsea 7-1 humping under O'Neill was nothing like the horrible feeling after the 8-0 loss, can't explain why.
Quote from: paul_e on May 08, 2018, 11:31:38 PMQuote from: SoccerHQ on May 08, 2018, 10:58:17 PMQuote from: paul richard on May 08, 2018, 09:31:19 PMChristmas 2012 v Chelsea/Spuds/Wigan. Lost 15-0. Followed up by January Cup humiliations v Millwall and Bradford. Throw in yet more league defeats v Saints and Newcastle in the same month. Utterly inexcusable and unforgivable. We did actually improve in the last two months of that season, maybe by more luck than judgement but we started getting results and were good to watch.The next season though showed how limited he was as a manager at the top level and we weren't destined for greatness under him.No different to Sherwood really. Once plan A was nulified there was no other method attempted apart from that bizarre possession based game we attempted when we went 7 games without scoring.This is the key thing, we can look back at that christmas as a point when he should've gone but the truth is February to May that season we looked like he'd eventually worked it out. The following summer we needed to add 2-3 quality players (a wide attacking player to compete with Gabby and Weimann, an upgrade on Westwood and a better Left back), instead he went on a European spree of gambles for about 7-8 players, seemingly on the basis that Benteke had worked out well so he could do it again. When we were still in the shit that Christmas was the time to bin him because he'd shown he didn't have it in him by then.All in hindsight of course, but he had well overstayed his welcome by the end of his second season.
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on May 09, 2018, 08:15:21 AMQuote from: Richard E on May 08, 2018, 08:03:05 PMHe must have had more ‘should have been sacked just for that result’ moments than any other Manager in our history.Exactly, most people could probably name 6 or 7 sack-worthy results off the top of their heads that he got away with. I still can't believe he had so many second chances and still managed to fuck things up - the perfect combination of a know-nothing owner and a truly terrible manager. And how many negative records did he break? actually, don't remind me. Never again.Strange, but the feeling after the Chelsea 7-1 humping under O'Neill was nothing like the horrible feeling after the 8-0 loss, can't explain why. 7-1 is a score that happens every now and again in top flight football, when one team has a bad day and everything goes perfectly for the other, see us v Wimbledon for example. 8-0 just feels like a different sort of embarassment altogether.
Quote from: Stu on May 08, 2018, 08:01:17 PMQuote from: Chico Hamilton III on May 08, 2018, 10:42:03 AMGreat image from Stoke on Saturdayhttps://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/07/paul-lambert-stoke-manager-future-contract-clause#img-1Remember the 8-0 at Chelsea, mate? I'll never forgive him for that. He should have been fired the next day.Should MON have been fired for the 7-1 defeat there with a much better side?Hindsight is great but at the time it was our first defeat in 7, we'd just smashed Liverpool at Anfield, and were in a cup semi final with a near bye to the final.
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on May 08, 2018, 10:42:03 AMGreat image from Stoke on Saturdayhttps://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/07/paul-lambert-stoke-manager-future-contract-clause#img-1Remember the 8-0 at Chelsea, mate? I'll never forgive him for that. He should have been fired the next day.
Great image from Stoke on Saturdayhttps://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/07/paul-lambert-stoke-manager-future-contract-clause#img-1
Lambert is or has been the latest 'fashion manager'. By that I mean he is or rather was the latest new thing. A successful playing career with Celtic and then with Dortmund which resulted in the big cup. Obviously with this playing experience he learnt a thing or two at what was the latest 'fashion club' - Dortmund and the Dortmund way of playing. As a manager he would bring some of that style combined with his own experience to any managerial role. We know this because he mumbled it so. We were all sucked in by it because of his middling success at Norwich. "If he can do that with them just think what he could do for us with a bit of cash"? That's what we thought and that's what Lerner thought. The club would now be in safe hands at last. Lerner wouldn't need to attend games to see what was actually going on because he had a trusted steed who would report back that we were often "brilliant"/"excellent" even "outstanding" despite the results and the many humiliations. We muddled on he mumbled on meaning we probably muddled that bit more. Watching his antics on Saturday on TV, with him track-suited up waving his arms around like a plane propeller taking occasional sips of water, pointing at nothing in particular - all the actions of someone uncomfortable in what they were doing trying to convince us otherwise. He's Stoke's problem now but won't be for much longer I'm sure.
Quote from: Bren'd on May 09, 2018, 11:37:03 AMLambert is or has been the latest 'fashion manager'. By that I mean he is or rather was the latest new thing. A successful playing career with Celtic and then with Dortmund which resulted in the big cup. Obviously with this playing experience he learnt a thing or two at what was the latest 'fashion club' - Dortmund and the Dortmund way of playing. As a manager he would bring some of that style combined with his own experience to any managerial role. We know this because he mumbled it so. We were all sucked in by it because of his middling success at Norwich. "If he can do that with them just think what he could do for us with a bit of cash"? That's what we thought and that's what Lerner thought. The club would now be in safe hands at last. Lerner wouldn't need to attend games to see what was actually going on because he had a trusted steed who would report back that we were often "brilliant"/"excellent" even "outstanding" despite the results and the many humiliations. We muddled on he mumbled on meaning we probably muddled that bit more. Watching his antics on Saturday on TV, with him track-suited up waving his arms around like a plane propeller taking occasional sips of water, pointing at nothing in particular - all the actions of someone uncomfortable in what they were doing trying to convince us otherwise. He's Stoke's problem now but won't be for much longer I'm sure.He was a fashionable manager at the time of his appointment and had done very well at Norwich getting back-to-back promotions and a solid season in the top flight. On that basis, I don't think his appointment was a bad one, but he soon got found out and should have gone far sooner than he did.
Quote from: tomd2103 on May 09, 2018, 11:58:10 AMQuote from: Bren'd on May 09, 2018, 11:37:03 AMLambert is or has been the latest 'fashion manager'. By that I mean he is or rather was the latest new thing. A successful playing career with Celtic and then with Dortmund which resulted in the big cup. Obviously with this playing experience he learnt a thing or two at what was the latest 'fashion club' - Dortmund and the Dortmund way of playing. As a manager he would bring some of that style combined with his own experience to any managerial role. We know this because he mumbled it so. We were all sucked in by it because of his middling success at Norwich. "If he can do that with them just think what he could do for us with a bit of cash"? That's what we thought and that's what Lerner thought. The club would now be in safe hands at last. Lerner wouldn't need to attend games to see what was actually going on because he had a trusted steed who would report back that we were often "brilliant"/"excellent" even "outstanding" despite the results and the many humiliations. We muddled on he mumbled on meaning we probably muddled that bit more. Watching his antics on Saturday on TV, with him track-suited up waving his arms around like a plane propeller taking occasional sips of water, pointing at nothing in particular - all the actions of someone uncomfortable in what they were doing trying to convince us otherwise. He's Stoke's problem now but won't be for much longer I'm sure.He was a fashionable manager at the time of his appointment and had done very well at Norwich getting back-to-back promotions and a solid season in the top flight. On that basis, I don't think his appointment was a bad one, but he soon got found out and should have gone far sooner than he did.Based on the job he did at Norwich he was highly rated and rightly so concerning what he did there. My concern was the bang average to poor jobs he had done everywhere else he had been at before Norwich. And that has continued ever since Norwich.