Rugby Union Thread

[PaulWinch again]

Brilliant tackle by Ashton.

[PaulWinch again]

Great draw for England.

[paul_e]

Good result, performance was good under pressure and that hit from ashton will go down in folklore.  Very impressed that their fullback kept his head and got the ball back after that, showed some real quality.  I thought the back 3 worked well, I thought the back row were solid (not sure tom johnson has it to play at the very top level though).  Front row were good but I'd have liked to have seen an alternative to Mears on the bench and I really think we'd be better using corbisiero starting with Marler the impact option off the bench (which was the plan if corbs hadn't picked up a knock).  Joseph needs some time on the pitch against opponents where we have a bit more chance to use him.

[Dave Summers]

Good result, performance was good under pressure and that hit from ashton will go down in folklore.  Very impressed that their fullback kept his head and got the ball back after that, showed some real quality.  I thought the back 3 worked well, I thought the back row were solid (not sure tom johnson has it to play at the very top level though).  Front row were good but I'd have liked to have seen an alternative to Mears on the bench and I really think we'd be better using corbisiero starting with Marler the impact option off the bench (which was the plan if corbs hadn't picked up a knock).  Joseph needs some time on the pitch against opponents where we have a bit more chance to use him.

Pretty much agree with that Paul,  would love to have seen Corbs start as I think we would have been on top of the Bok pack.   

Key part of today for me was when Flood left the field.  Nice and flat at the start, getting the ball to Manu nice and early and hey presto, busting the gainline.   Unfortunately when he went off Farrell started kicking too much ball away, that one from 10 yds away was criminal.  That in turn led to Jospeh seeing bugger all of the ball in the whole game.   Again, I repeat what I have said ad infinitum on this thread, at the moment Farrell isn't a test class number 10.

Enjoyed the back three performance and believe that Ashton is finding his best form again, excellent work rate today.  Thought Goode was sublime at full back and hope this is the start of a long career in the 15 jersey.   This will in turn move Foden to the wing I guess, but with Wade, May and Sharples about, what options we have in the back three now and that's without mentioning Brown.

Danny Care was excellent as well and how fortunate are we to have him Youngs and Dickson all vying for a starting spot.   Will Greenwood has just tweeted his Lions team and has Phillips at 9.  Why?.  Our three are streets ahead of him in all facets other than physicality.

Talking of Lions starters, step forward Dan Cole.  Tamed the beast in all the tests matches and his workrate around the field and at the breakdown especially is outstanding, just needs to stop conceding daft pens.  Please someone tell me why Adam Jones should start ahead of him for the Lions?.   Marler did well today, considering he took a bit of a pummelling last week, but I feel Corbs was a huge miss today.

Parling and Palmer were solid today and even Botha did well when he came on.

Back row again we have a embarrassment of riches.  Johnson has had a fine tour in my eyes and Haskell came in and did his cause no harm today.  Waldrom was a nice pleasant surprise as I wasn't sure he had it for the highest level.

So I think that under Lancaster we have moved forward massively and fair credit to him.  I can't wait for the Autumn series and am looking forward to hopefully beating both SA and Aussie at Twickenham.  I don't think we have anything to be scared of in either of those teams.   If everyone is fit and that will never happen, what about the following 22 :

Corbs
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Parling
Croft
Robshaw
Wood

Youngs
Flood
Foden
Tuilagi
Joseph
Ashton
Goode

Marler
Youngs/Gray
Palmer
Morgan
Care
Burns
May

[lovejoy]

Not sure about Joseph myself. Difficult to tell how much was England being good and SA being poor. That said a result in the SH is a rare event so credit where it's due.

[paul_e]

Not sure about Joseph myself. Difficult to tell how much was England being good and SA being poor. That said a result in the SH is a rare event so credit where it's due.

I actually think Jospeh comes out of these 2 games with more chance of being a regular.  He got very little ball so we haven't seen him do what  he's good at.  Some flair players would've gone missing in that situation but he got involved, tackled well, fought in the tight  and generally showed a willingness to get a bit dirty.  These are things that you need in a top 13 (BoD is fantastic at stealing ball on the floor for example) and it's what I wanted to see from him, there will be other games where he can run at people and create holes but seeing that's not all he's got is probably the biggest victory of the tour.

Generally we've seen big improvements through the tour and as a team we've grown, just hope he finds an alternative to Farrell at 10 because, for all his potential, he really limits our attacking threat at the minute and is a weak link in a potentially very good side, particularly when Wood and Croft come back into things.  I agree with Dave on the one he chipped through from the shadow of the posts, shocking decision which summed up why he's not ready to play at the highest level.

Final point, I mostly like the side you've got there Dave but I think I'd have Kitchener around the 22 as well, Lawes and Kitchener could be a top class pairing for 10years, we need to see them together soon and see if they work.

[Dave Summers]

England EPS: A Allen (Leicester), C Ashton (Saracens), B Barritt (Saracens), M Brown (Harlequins), D Care (Harlequins), L Dickson (Northampton), O Farrell (Saracens), T Flood (Leicester), B Foden (Northampton), A Goode (Saracens), J Joseph (London Irish), C Sharples (Gloucester), M Tuilagi (Leicester), J Turner-Hall (Harlequins), B Youngs (Leicester), M Botha (Saracens), A Corbisiero (London Irish), D Cole (Leicester), T Croft (Leicester), P Dowson (Northampton), D Hartley (Northampton), T Johnson (Exeter), C Lawes (Northampton), J Marler (Harlequins), B Morgan (Gloucester), T Palmer (Wasps), G Parling (Leicester), C Robshaw (Harlequins), M Stevens (Saracens), T Waldrom (Leicester), R Webber (Bath), T Wood (Northampton).

England Saxons: N Abendanon (Bath), M Benjamin (Leicester), T Biggs (Bath), F Burns (Gloucester), G Ford (Leicester), G Lowe (Harlequins), J May (Gloucester), R Miller (Sale Sharks), U Monye (Harlequins), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester), C Wade (Wasps), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), N Catt (Bath), C Clark (Northampton), L Deacon (Leicester), P Doran-Jones (Northampton), C Fearns (Bath), J Gaskell (Sale Sharks), J Gibson (London Irish), J Gray (Harlequins), J Haskell (Wasps), G Kitchener (Leicester), M Kvesic (Worcester), J Launchbury (Wasps), M Mullan (Worcester), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), H Thomas (Sale Sharks), D Wilson (Bath), T Youngs (Leicester).

The 2 squads announced today by Stuart Lancaster.

A little disappointed that May and Wade haven't found their way into the full squad.   I really feel that Barritt and Turner-Hall are the same player and only one of them needed to be picked, especially when Anthony Allen is there as well and they could have picked someone with a bit more creativity instead.

Only skimmed them really, but we do have some strength in depth for sure.  Two things stand out, only two hookers from what I can see and again no natural 7 as a back up to Robshaw.  Although I guess Wood will be seen as a 7 ultimately.

Very pleased that Strettle has departed and with only Ashton and Sharples as out and out wingers, it suggests that either Goode or Brown will be having a run at 15 with Foden swapping?

Looking forward to the Autumn Internationals where I expect to win at least 2 out of the 4 games and hope for 3 wins.

[paul_e]

Not sure about the back row options in the main squad, croft, wood, johnson and dowson are all best at 6 and Lawes is more than capable of playing there as well.  I guess we're just blessed with a great crop of 6s and nothing at 7 (even Robshaw was a 6 when he started and was switched).  It gets even worse when you see Clark, Launchbury and Gaskell in the saxons who are all very good 6s as well.

Agree with the barrit/turner-hall comment, I don't see much point taking both.

Not happy with Matt Stevens being in the main squad, like strettle, hodgson and mears he's had enough chances and never delivered, glad the other 3 have gone though.

I love the saxons squad.  there are a couple of older heads who should bring some experience to things and then it's a who's who of the good young talent in england, i can see 7-8 (May,  Miller, Kvesic, Youngs, Wade, Twelvetrees, Kitchener and maybe Mullen) all pushing for a place in the main squad if anyone up there has a bad couple of months.

Definitely lots of reasons to be very positive about the way english rugby is going.