Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on January 31, 2023, 10:15:54 PM
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Assuming we are not going to seal a late deal for anyone, what is the verdict?
Repeating what I said earlier. Plenty of reputable reports flying around that the manager was going to be heavily backed this window. So what went wrong?
Firstly, I agree with the outgoings with the possible exception of Sanson but he was never going to accept his position in the team forever.
The sale of Ings immediately sounded an alarm bell. Selling him to a direct rival. For all the 'he is shit' etc, he had the ability to bring us back into a game or nick it for us and that might come back to bite. Selling him and nor replacing him simply doesn't make sense. You have more than one option when you are looking at new recruits in case your first choices are not available/unwilling to come.
There is an indication from Percy that our targets were too highly priced. In which case are we now experiencing a distinctive change of policy - fine if we are, just don't sell us bullshit like aiming for Europe/winning cups - because it isn't happening with this philosophy.
Finally, I hope the first thing that happens in the summer if not before Lange is given the boot and Emery can bring his own DOF in that he trusts.
3/10
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1/10
A slight upgrade at best in the left back position and a kid from the Beazer Homes League who we don't know if he's any better than any of the other kids we've got knocking about
Selling our top scorer and contributor of 25% of our league goals and not replacing him
Taking a weak squad and making it even worse
Our manager banging on for ages that we need a winger and not getting one
Being in our best potential position in the league for years and bottling it
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7/10
Finally shifted a bunch of deadwood
Cleared salary space
Didn’t get sucked into overpaying for average players
Didn’t sign another PC
Moreno a strong addition
Traore return smart
Onwards. UTV
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1/10
Squad now weaker than it was before the window
Selling our top scorer and not replacing him whilst loaning out one of the other strikers leaving us entirely beholden to Watkins who is not exactly prolific
Didn't get the wide player the manager wanted
Chucking away the season with half of it left to play and things way more open than they usually are
Another next-to-nothing-net-spend window. This is starting to get predictable.
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Emery said that if we move out Sanson and Nakamba, we would most likely bring in another midfielder. I wasn't expecting that player to be Bertrand Traore! Marginally upgraded in the left back area, weakened our bench somewhat and we can't afford injuries to Emi, Kamara, Mings or Watkins. A total anti-climax of a window. Thank goodness we have points on the board, because we'd be worrying a bit harder if we hadn't. Need to beat Leicester to maintain momentum, and I can't see that happening on Saturday.
Never mind this 'we'll get them in the summer' rubbish either. Same players, same ambitions = Champions League aspirations. One positive is that we have probably saved around 300k a week in wages. Take a bonus why don't you, dear Christian.
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9/10 for players out
5/10 for players in
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Outs - good
Ins - Pretty shit.
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Outs - good
Ins - Pretty shit.
I'd go with that
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5/10.
Think Moreno will be a very tidy signing and good value for money. Duran could be in 12 months but would've liked an attacking signing who could make immediate impact and I just don't think he'll be able to do that.
Personally I'd have kept Archer in the squad if it was known we'd have sold Ings without a replacement.
Who knows what the financial optics are behind the scenes but my gut feeling is for second time in three seasons we're not going to seize a decent chance to have a statement finish in the league which hasn't happened since Dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Just finishing 11th again when Emery would've been in for 3/4 of the season dosen't feel enough with his quality and impact he's made on existing players. Ultimately though I don''t think he's been provided with the correct tools to make a proper go for europa.
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A terrible failure of a window and no amount of people saying "In Emery We Trust" ot gaslighting themselves that naming two keepers on the bench is actually a masterstroke will convince me otherwise.
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5.5/10
A decent striker and we'd probably have been set. I also like Sanson and would like him to have got a run at some stage.
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With the last few transfer Windows we done,it hasn't helped us much with the players we brought in,add to that Steven Gerrard as well
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Didn't expect us to go out and be silly, but did expect better.
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Let's hope Ollie Watkins doesn't get injured
I don't understand Archer being on loan and and I don't get there being no experienced replacement for Ings.
But hey, what do I know?
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D-.
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I keep hearing this word gaslighting am I missing something?
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Rubbish. One injury away from the season being over.
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Rubbish. One injury away from the season being over.
I better put some salt on my path.
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You watch Watkins will get a Vassell drill through his own foot injury at home.
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Outgoings - B. Would have liked to keep Ings or Archer given what happened
Incomings - D. Too light, and leaves us exposed
Overall - 2 years ago we blow a chance to push on due to Joes injury and no backup, and we lost 18 months because of it - hope it's not the same this time.
I trust Unai, and really hopes it works out because I really want to see the Villa be good again!
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On the bright side (clutching at straws), we could be Everton: don't think they've got anyone at all!
Just don't get injured, Ollie. Pretty please? And score loads of goals.
Just hope our manager has a plan.
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Just looked at Ings stats for this season and he has 6 goals for 833 minutes play time in the league. So a goal every 139 minutes, which is decent. Even if you include Watkin's assists it's a still only a goal involvement every 192 minutes. I have no doubt we will amble on but not replacing that Ings contribution with a senior striker, whatever you thought of him, is a bit criminal. 4/10 for me.
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Absolutely awful
Feels like we have just given up
Offloading Ings our top scorer for a big risk with a young MLS player.
Boring
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Martinez/Olsen
Cash/Young
Konsa/Carlos
Mings/Chambers
Moreno/Digne
Luiz/McGinn
Kamara/Dendoncker
Buendia/Coutinho
Ramsey/Traore/McGinn
Watkins/Duran
Bailey/Traore
There's enough there barring a crisis with Traore and McGinn both able to play further forward. We're one short on numbers, so have had to stretch those two across two positions.
Centre forward and wide attackers need an injection of quality. Base is strong and would be happy to run with it. Those attacking signings have to be the right ones. Benefit of the doubt for now. If the rationale is 'we don't need to this season and the right player isn't available', I'm fine with that. If it's 'fuck it, they're established, let's milk the cow' then I'm not. We'll find out in the summer.
Really happy with the outs. Squad was becoming bloated and full of shit. Ings goes to VAR, but I think we're just onside and understand the reasoning.
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Absolutely awful
Feels like we have just given up
Offloading Ings our top scorer for a big risk with a young MLS player.
Boring
Fucking hell. I find myself agreeing with you.
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You watch Watkins will get a Vassell drill through his own foot injury at home.
Knowing our luck he'll be like Unlucky Alf in the Fast Show and step into what he thinks is a puddle but turns out to be a 40ft sink hole full of water.
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No doubt about it disappointing, was hoping for a top half end to the season, now I have my doubts, particularly if Watkins is out injured for a few weeks.
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It is what it is. Unai has already shown he can get performances out of the current squad, so my faith remains in him.
Bringing Traore back is a better option imo than relying on someone like Dembele to settle.
Ings shouldn’t have been sold until the summer unless a proven replacement was lined up.
It’s fine saying that we stand a better chance of getting our targets in the summer, but my concern is that in waiting to get them we may also lose Emi M or Kamara depending on where we end up this season and whether they believe our ambitions match theirs.
Anyway 16 points from the last 7 games under Unai with the players he inherited means I’m remaining positive. UTV!
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Looking forward to AV twitter account tweeting - "he's here and he's perfect" with a picture of Bert
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Unnecessarily risky. Time will tell how it actually pans out, but next summer needs to be a massive step up for me to retain faith in those running the club
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I wonder if players who've recently signed contracts for us, who have perhaps had promises made to them that the squad will be improved will be happy with our window? Doubt it.
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Calm before the storm. Our season is over let’s be honest so let’s get the players we really want for a better price in the summer.
We do seem light but let’s see what Duran is like
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Absolutely awful
Feels like we have just given up
Offloading Ings our top scorer for a big risk with a young MLS player.
Boring
Come on Flin5tone! I’d rather pay big money ditching Gerrard, than spend big in January.
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You watch Watkins will get a Vassell drill through his own foot injury at home.
probably miss his foot, so we should be okay
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Can see two sides to it really. I'll go with the more positive slant first - we now only have one game a week for pretty much the rest of the season with an international break in there as well, so it might be that it's felt that a large squad is not required. We have moved some players out and now should be in a position where we can invest quite heavily in the summer.
Now for the not so positive slant - I just think we have taken a risk and left ourselves light an options at a time when the league is looking unusually open. We have no viable replacement for Watkins if he gets injured (Duran is young and inexperienced) and we've attempted to solve the issue of Bailey's inconsistency by bringing back the equally inconsistent Traore.
Moreover, we went into the window with the club on a bit of a high and a couple of quality new signings would have continued that feeling that the club really is on an upward trajectory. It probably still is and we just might not have been able to get the players we wanted over the line, but it just feels a bit like we might see another missed opportunity over the next few months.
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Summed up in that most were saying we were a top replacement for Watkins away from being a really useful side. Now we are praying he’s fit enough to play every single game until the end of the season.
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We are about to find out just how good Unai Emery is as a manager. He’s done a superb job so far but I’m concerned we have squeezed as much as we can out of the current first team. And maybe that level is just about good enough but there are 3 or 4 players at least who should not be starters come August. That’s where we needed help and will need most upgrades. Losing fringe players is fine. What we need to do is make a number of today’s starting XI into squad members. We are a good way from that.
C for me.
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Puzzled…..that’s my verdict.
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Calm before the storm. Our season is over let’s be honest so let’s get the players we really want for a better price in the summer.
We do seem light but let’s see what Duran is like
I think the counter-argument being posited all window is that the season needn't be over considering the teams standing between us and a European place.
Granted, Chelsea and Liverpool should improve but we have to be setting a target to finish higher than Brighton, Brentford and Fulham.
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Disappointing.
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7/10.
Outs - let’s not kid ourselves, the players we’ve got rid of either barely played for us, looked unsuitable, or both.
Ins - don’t know much about Moreno but it sounds like he’s highly rated in Spain, so for the price is worth a punt if Emery rates him. Duran is one for the future, but again it seems like he’s highly rated so probably a good use of the Chuky money. It made more sense to bring back Bert than have some unknown on loan. Hopefully he’ll flourish under Emery - if not, we’ve lost nothing.
Overall, it’s slightly disappointing when there were some quite big names being bandied around. I guess there wasn’t much we could do about Nico Williams if we were willing to meet the release clause but he didn’t want to sign. Maybe it’s a case that he’d be more open to a move in summer? If that is the case then we may have made the right choice - if not then we probably should’ve signed another striker.
Thing to learn is that if we don’t have them signed up in the first couple of weeks, it ain’t happening. I’d be inclined to take that as a positive that we’re buying players we’re targeting rather than panic buying when Plan A doesn’t work out … but of course it’s hard to say without being in the room as it were!
Edit: Archer out on loan seems a weird one, but he’s in danger of falling behind this season so perhaps better for him long term to be getting a better guarantee of game time. Particularly if it’s playing alongside Ramsey, A - getting a good understanding between those two could prove to be great longer term.
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Calm before the storm. Our season is over let’s be honest so let’s get the players we really want for a better price in the summer.
We do seem light but let’s see what Duran is like
How is our season 'over' Dave? We are currently 3 points off sixth place.
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I not only bothered we didn’t get a striker in. Summer, that’s I hope they a planning for, get the players you want in, more availability etc. Trim squad and then build.
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when i look back to last January and i guess we came away thinking that was a good window? and you look at it now and you think we’ll actually it wasn’t that great really ?
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Not great to put it mildly. To be fair it's clear Emery decided that a number of players after the Stevenage debacle had no future at the club. Ings is the one that divides opinion, especially with Archer having left, but I think the right call was made there. I'm not sure LB or CM were positions we absolutely needed to strengthen but Emery got one of his two big targets. I thought we could have held onto Sanson until the summer but maybe the club did right by our young players and those on the fringes of the team by letting them go.
An injury to Watkins in the second half of the season would be a disaster. That's our big risk, expecting Duran to make an impact is optimistic at best. Carlos back fit asap could be critical and should be like a new signing. We basically have 15 or 16 senior players that have to see us through 19 games so fingers crossed. Think we will finish anywhere from 8-12 dependent on injuries. Hoping to see a lot more impact from likes of Ramsey, McGinn, Bailey and Buendia before the seasons end.
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A big opportunity missed to break into the top half. Ridiculously risky not to have strong options in attack. Whichever way you dress it up, the squad is weaker than January 1st. Simply inexcusable. 1/10.
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All the “season is over” nonsense is frankly bollox and those posting such shite know it.
Look at the table - all to play for.
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All the “season is over” nonsense is frankly bollox and those posting such shite know it.
Look at the table - all to play for.
Agreed. It just makes a little more challenging. No way is anything over
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Having a smaller tighter squad may have some benefits in the short term.
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1/10
A slight upgrade at best in the left back position and a kid from the Beazer Homes League who we don't know if he's any better than any of the other kids we've got knocking about
Selling our top scorer and contributor of 25% of our league goals and not replacing him
Taking a weak squad and making it even worse
Our manager banging on for ages that we need a winger and not getting one
Being in our best potential position in the league for years and bottling it
Is where I am also. It’ll always be ‘the next window’ or ‘next season’ under some corporate guise of strategic planning. I simply don’t believe that anymore. Clubs who are not simply interested in making up the numbers don’t sell their leading scorer without having any replacement whatsoever to finish half a season.
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I wonder whether Emery is still not sure about some of the 1st team and wants to give them more time before finally deciding which ones to ditch in the summer. He might thing some of the improvement seen in some players might be temporary and needs more time to assess.
He has said that Sanson needs to be playing regularly but doesn't warrant a place in the team at the moment. Likewise, Archer needs to be playing week in week out.
It may be that he does not see Watkins being the future but to try and get the right players(s) up front at this time in the season is not possible.
As fans we tend to ignore that top players may be playing CL football at this time in the season and they do not want to give that up, whereas at the end of the season it can be completely different.
This manager seems to know what he is doing and knows the type of players he wants. I think he will set his stall out in the summer when he has fully evaluated what we currently have.
I would have liked to have seen some big named players coming in now but I am not the manager who has the difficult job of building this team back up to a level that we haven't seen for the best part of 15 years. We have for a number of seasons, for various reasons, thrown money at players that have failed to make a team. Hopefully, this time is different and we have a manager that is at a level that we haven't seen for a long time and that includes MON.
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Been a disappointing window.
I'm still erect over Emery though and think we will finish strongly.
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So that's why you're always smirking
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So that's why you're always smirking
Partly 😏
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The more pertinent point IMO is Emery’s verdict on it. I think we tried to back him by getting Moreno, meeting the release clause on Williams, and making offers to Delofeu and Guendouzi but they didn’t happen.Obviously GD got injured so we dodged a bullet there but I think Emery’s feelings on Williams and Guendouzi will become clear if we get a new DoF/sporting director in. I do think he’s happy with the departures, but I’m speculating as to how much influence he had there.
I think if you believe the major decisions are Emery’s, you can’t really question the ambition of the club can you? I don’t think he’s here to arse about in mid-table.
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It wasn't great to wake up and see we'd failed to bring in a decent striker. Maybe Duran will be that guy?
Need a lot more from our attacking players in the goalscoring sense. Coutinho needs to step up and get 5-10 goals, as does Buendia. Bailey and Ollie need to work on their finishing, too.
There are decent players in there, but I think it's an opportunity missed considering where we are in the league. Traore back is an interesting one.
Overall a 3/10 window.
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The more pertinent point IMO is Emery’s verdict on it. I think we tried to back him by getting Moreno, meeting the release clause on Williams, and making offers to Delofeu and Guendouzi but they didn’t happen.Obviously GD got injured so we dodged a bullet there but I think Emery’s feelings on Williams and Guendouzi will become clear if we get a new DoF/sporting director in. I do think he’s happy with the departures, but I’m speculating as to how much influence he had there.
I think if you believe the major decisions are Emery’s, you can’t really question the ambition of the club can you? I don’t think he’s here to arse about in mid-table.
Agree Percy. If Emery couldn't get who he wanted and decided he would wait until he can then that is fine by me. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do with the squad and then what he does before next season.
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The more pertinent point IMO is Emery’s verdict on it. I think we tried to back him by getting Moreno, meeting the release clause on Williams, and making offers to Delofeu and Guendouzi but they didn’t happen.Obviously GD got injured so we dodged a bullet there but I think Emery’s feelings on Williams and Guendouzi will become clear if we get a new DoF/sporting director in. I do think he’s happy with the departures, but I’m speculating as to how much influence he had there.
I think if you believe the major decisions are Emery’s, you can’t really question the ambition of the club can you? I don’t think he’s here to arse about in mid-table.
Agree Percy. If Emery couldn't get who he wanted and decided he would wait until he can then that is fine by me. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do with the squad and then what he does before next season.
Me too, and anyway, I struggle to feel too depressed on a night when, after a hard-earned home replay, Small Heath knocked themselves out the cup with an own goal in extra time.
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Hopefully we’ll get lucky but whatever way it’s spun it’s a poor effort.
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Not a very good window.
Next time though, when all our targets will be reasonably priced and absoluted stoked about the approach, it's gonna be great.
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Awful
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Best to defer any judgement until summer. I will be happy with 55 points which I believe we can achieve. Any thoughts of a push for Europe this season were gone after the first 12 games. If we don't push on in summer then the manager has been duped but I don't believe that will happen. Pleased to see deadwood being jettisoned.
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I’m sorry if I’ve missed something, but what happened to that Matteus Guendouzi bloke? I thought that was a done deal.
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I'd no problem with Ings going but even getting a loan replacement would have been wise - what West Ham did with Lingard a couple of years back. I assume he fancies Bailey as a striker of sort.
The rest to me is a positive - Moreno is an upgrade on what we have (and certainly Aug), glad to see Traore back, Duran Duran is an exciting signing.
The other outgoings are to me no great loss.
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That’s 2 cup competitions and 1 transfer window we have thrown away since the managers arrival.
Piss poor.
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Not terrible, not great. Cleared a bit of space in the squad from players who were never getting a game under Emery's watch and I reckon we'll see him take a look quite a few of the youngsters around the first team.
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Average.
The fringe players we've sold won't be missed.
Ings leaving has left us short. Keeping Archer would have helped here.
Excited by Duran, but only time will tell.
I'd rather we get players in we really want, other than getting ones in just to add numbers to the squad (Bednarek for example).
Traore coming back could be a smart move, we could have wasted £25m on a similar player, so I think it makes sense.
We've likely saved ~£200k a week on wages on mostly players that haven't contributed.
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The more pertinent point IMO is Emery’s verdict on it. I think we tried to back him by getting Moreno, meeting the release clause on Williams, and making offers to Delofeu and Guendouzi but they didn’t happen.Obviously GD got injured so we dodged a bullet there but I think Emery’s feelings on Williams and Guendouzi will become clear if we get a new DoF/sporting director in. I do think he’s happy with the departures, but I’m speculating as to how much influence he had there.
I think if you believe the major decisions are Emery’s, you can’t really question the ambition of the club can you? I don’t think he’s here to arse about in mid-table.
Agree Percy. If Emery couldn't get who he wanted and decided he would wait until he can then that is fine by me. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do with the squad and then what he does before next season.
Yep.
I'm actually disappointed that we did not get Guendouzi in January - he'd have made our midfield more dynamic - and hope we can go back for him later in the year.
I'm glad we haven't knee-jerked and brought in players that we'd be bitching about come the end of the season: yes, upfront we appear to have taken a calculated risk - maybe Emery has told Bailey and Watkins that they now have the time to sharpen their finishing over the course of the upcoming games, to take the pressure off them.
I think Duran, McGinn, Bert and - to lesser extent - Ramsey and Buendia can help to provide attacking resource, in the short-term.
I note that Sourhampton brought in a winger and a striker that have been mentioned on here recently ...
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A bit of a gamble.
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Verdict: slightly worrying.
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Not overly concerned but it could have been better obviously. Like Robbo said, having a smaller more tight knit squad might work really well and one or two of the young un's (KKH, Wilson, etc) might get a game or two sat on the bench which wouldn't be a bad thing. As for the season being over, that's just nonsense.
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People saying the season is over are over doing it. However, we’ve taken an unnecessary risk that should have been avoided. I don’t buy the argument that’s there was no one available who could improve us, we’re not that good. Also if that’s the case then don’t sell Ings.
As for youngsters getting a chance, hopefully that’ll work but it’s not great planning.
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Crap. Jam tomorrow as always.
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To me, it looks a pretty average window, but time will tell. I still feel like I'm getting to know Emery, but in the last few weeks, I think he's told us a lot:
He is very selective about who he wants to work with. I've seen a couple of people suggest that he has been the one to reject certain deals, seemingly being happier with a smaller squad than one that has players in that he doesn't believe will do their job. Being so meticulous about his tactics, you can see the logic there - if there is one player that isn't or can't do what he wants, the entire plan could fall apart.
He's got rid of four of the starting eleven from the Stevenage game, within a few weeks. I think that defeat hurt him, and I think he wants to send a message to the squad that remains - that level of performance is unacceptable. If you don't do your job, you're gone.
Watkins has spent the last 18 months as one of our two main strikers. Now he is the main man. He strikes me as a confidence player - maybe this vote of confidence is exactly what he needs? Of course, if he gets a long term injury, we'll be in big trouble (if we're assuming Durán is effectively useless, which won't be the case), but if he gets a little boost that makes him more dangerous, surely it's worth it? Is one decent striker is better than two average ones? Is him playing a bit better more or less likely than him picking up an injury? I don't know what the answer is.
Our squad situation could be the opportunity that some of our youth players need to make a name for themselves. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought, when seeing an 18-year-old play for another club, "I thought our youth were supposed to be good - why don't we ever play one of our kids?". Well, now we might actually get to see them. Rory Wilson, Kaden Young, Tommi O'Reilly, Josh Feeney, Omari Kellyman - we might start to see some of them around the first team squad and start getting minutes under their belt, which can only help their development.
I do wish we would have landed one of our more ambitious targets, but I don't think it necessarily points to a lack of ambition, or settling for mid-table - at least in the medium term. Hiring Emery was the most ambitious thing I've see Villa do in my lifetime, pretty much. We're not going to hang him out to dry, we just aren't. I would imagine that work has already started on the summer transfer window, and probably the entire recruitment team will get a revamp in the meantime. Don't write this season off yet...
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Excellent post Boozey.
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Not as good as we hoped but nowhere near as bad as some are suggesting.
The only outgoing that has weakened us is Ings, Bert coming back has fixed the lack of options for Baileys spot and Duran looks like a good option to cover Watkins.
Overall I'd say the squad is slightly stronger than the start of the window and not bloated with players who weren't playing.
I do think we're a couple of players light of where we want to be but I don't think that's due to a lack of backing but rather Emery deciding to wait on players. I think we'll be back in for Williams and Guendouzi in the summer.
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I'm sure Emery will reveal a bit more of what didn't come off in his presser this week.
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Not as good as we hoped but nowhere near as bad as some are suggesting.
The only outgoing that has weakened us is Ings, Bert coming back has fixed the lack of options for Baileys spot and Duran looks like a good option to cover Watkins.
Overall I'd say the squad is slightly stronger than the start of the window and not bloated with players who weren't playing.
I do think we're a couple of players light of where we want to be but I don't think that's due to a lack of backing but rather Emery deciding to wait on players. I think we'll be back in for Williams and Guendouzi in the summer.
Totally agree Paul. I think this window was more about Emery trying to sign who he wants to improve the first 11 but not panic buying.
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I wonder if the lack of winger coming in means someone like Zaha has agreed to come in once he's contract is up? Just a thought.
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Excellent post Boozey.
Although we may be disappointed I have feeling our manager does have a master plan and will certainly be backed.
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Spot on Boozey
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Excellent post Boozey.
Although we may be disappointed I have feeling our manager does have a master plan and will certainly be backed.
Totally agree, great post Boozey.
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I’m neither in the pearl clutching “we’re relegation fodder now” camp nor the Church of Emery.
It appeared to me to be a good window for clearing the decks of players who don’t make the Unai grade. That bodes well for a long term view and vision of the club. It means the board want UE long term, he’s got a plan and we are implementing it. He wants the all around improvement and for the future we have places and cash available.
However, what I didn’t get was with the sale of Ings why Archer was shipped out. It may be that Archer is not in UE’s long term plans, but if Watkins gets injured and Duran is really “one for the future” (at £18 million - jeez) then the short term plan doesn’t work.
As for the rest that left … meh. None of them were first team regulars. We didn’t have the saga of a “last minute bid” like Arsenal did for Luiz in the summer.
We are out of both cups and not in Europe so have 18 games to go. I’d hope with the squad we have we can improve, finishing above Fulham and Brentford I’d hope.
I am glad we didn’t “panic buy” and that there are clearly specific targets we want. The overhyped January window is a time to pay very big money for pretty average players. it appeared to be teams that are struggling (and Chelsea) that buy “big”.
6/10 for me.
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6/10 See me.
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10/10 I’m just ecstatic there’s a chance of Bertball again.
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Not as good as we hoped but nowhere near as bad as some are suggesting.
The only outgoing that has weakened us is Ings, Bert coming back has fixed the lack of options for Baileys spot and Duran looks like a good option to cover Watkins.
Overall I'd say the squad is slightly stronger than the start of the window and not bloated with players who weren't playing.
I do think we're a couple of players light of where we want to be but I don't think that's due to a lack of backing but rather Emery deciding to wait on players. I think we'll be back in for Williams and Guendouzi in the summer.
I hope this is right, but i'll be less patient in the next window.
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I think it’s been handled well, business done early on the players we could get, not got carried away buying second and third choices for inflated prices on the last day or two. Also trimmed down to those players who will evidently part of match day. Hoping summer brings our preferred signings, and an opportunity to look at the progress of our loaned out younger players.
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He is very selective about who he wants to work with. I've seen a couple of people suggest that he has been the one to reject certain deals
That's something I have missed. Can you elaborate?
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The difference we'll notice in matches is that Moreno plays (potentially LM or LB and that Dhuran or Traore may get a run out instead of Ings/Bailey.
It's hardly a 1/10 window on that basis especially since most voices were saying they didn't rate Ings and weren't sure that Digne was an upgrade.
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Best to defer any judgement until summer. I will be happy with 55 points which I believe we can achieve. Any thoughts of a push for Europe this season were gone after the first 12 games. If we don't push on in summer then the manager has been duped but I don't believe that will happen. Pleased to see deadwood being jettisoned.
We are 3 points off a European place with half of the season to play.
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The difference we'll notice in matches is that Moreno plays (potentially LM or LB and that Dhuran or Traore may get a run out instead of Ings/Bailey.
It's hardly a 1/10 window on that basis especially since most voices were saying they didn't rate Ings and weren't sure that Digne was an upgrade.
Is it really such a hard concept to grasp, that rate Ings or not, selling somebody who has contributed more goals than anybody else and not replacing him, leaving us without another recognised striker is hardly a recipe for success. The ownership/management haven't been able to put together a squad capable of achieving the top half, and I can't see them doing so for the forseeable when they consistently make bad decisions.
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Which two people voted brilliant?!
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Which two people voted brilliant?!
One of them was Bert, the other was Lange
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Lolz
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He is very selective about who he wants to work with. I've seen a couple of people suggest that he has been the one to reject certain deals
That's something I have missed. Can you elaborate?
I can try, but there may not be anything to it. I'd just seen a couple of things on Twitter, honestly can't remember who said it now, but it seemed to have some substance. That he was being very particular about who was being brought in - that perhaps the club (Lange) was suggesting people, but he wasn't convinced by them. Was happier to wait until his ideal target came available.
That might be complete rubbish, but it seems to ring true to me, knowing the level of planning and research he seems to put into management in general. It stands to reason that he would be very particular about who he uses his budget on, in terms of ability, physique, mentality etc. I would imagine there are a lot of boxes that you would need to tick in order to be a player he wants to work with. And this would explain why we ended up not spending the money that appears to be available.
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The difference we'll notice in matches is that Moreno plays (potentially LM or LB and that Dhuran or Traore may get a run out instead of Ings/Bailey.
It's hardly a 1/10 window on that basis especially since most voices were saying they didn't rate Ings and weren't sure that Digne was an upgrade.
Is it really such a hard concept to grasp, that rate Ings or not, selling somebody who has contributed more goals than anybody else and not replacing him, leaving us without another recognised striker is hardly a recipe for success. The ownership/management haven't been able to put together a squad capable of achieving the top half, and I can't see them doing so for the forseeable when they consistently make bad decisions.
I'm not going to bother searching for your post history about Danny Ings, because everyone knows your opinion of him.
As for the insults, take a look at yourself, you seem unable to see, or consider, anyone's else's opinion if it's different to yours. So get down of your high horse.
I've said numerous times I'd like another one up top, that doesn't mean, because we didn't get one, that the world is going to end.
They didn't finish top half under the last buffoon, and certainly wouldn't have if your pal had stayed in charge. As it stands there's every chance we will under the new guy.
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The difference we'll notice in matches is that Moreno plays (potentially LM or LB and that Dhuran or Traore may get a run out instead of Ings/Bailey.
It's hardly a 1/10 window on that basis especially since most voices were saying they didn't rate Ings and weren't sure that Digne was an upgrade.
Is it really such a hard concept to grasp, that rate Ings or not, selling somebody who has contributed more goals than anybody else and not replacing him, leaving us without another recognised striker is hardly a recipe for success. The ownership/management haven't been able to put together a squad capable of achieving the top half, and I can't see them doing so for the forseeable when they consistently make bad decisions.
I'm not going to bother searching for your post history about Danny Ings, because everyone knows your opinion of him.
As for the insults, take a look at yourself, you seem unable to see, or consider, anyone's else's opinion if it's different to yours. So get down of your high horse.
I've said numerous times I'd like another one up top, that doesn't mean, because we didn't get one, that the world is going to end.
They didn't finish top half under the last buffoon, and certainly wouldn't have if your pal had stayed in charge. As it stands there's every chance we will under the new guy.
"Your pal". I'll leave it there, and try to debate with somebody more worthwhile like Footy or Flinstone.
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I've said numerous times I'd like another one up top, that doesn't mean, because we didn't get one, that the world is going to end.
Yeah but we haven't just not got one more up top - we have one LESS. That's the thing.
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Even if we had kept Ings (who ran round like an old man according to some) people still would have been unhappy.
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Even if we had kept Ings (who ran round like an old man according to some) people still would have been unhappy.
I don't know what others would have thought, can't speak for them, but I'd have been much happier.
I don't remember, for all the criticism of Ings, anyone saying "Let's just go with Watkins on his own" or "let's sell Ings and send Archer on loan". And before you say it, Duran isn't ready for the Premier League and hasn't played in four months - something Emery was very clear on when we signed him.
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He is very selective about who he wants to work with. I've seen a couple of people suggest that he has been the one to reject certain deals
That's something I have missed. Can you elaborate?
I can try, but there may not be anything to it. I'd just seen a couple of things on Twitter, honestly can't remember who said it now, but it seemed to have some substance. That he was being very particular about who was being brought in - that perhaps the club (Lange) was suggesting people, but he wasn't convinced by them. Was happier to wait until his ideal target came available.
That might be complete rubbish, but it seems to ring true to me, knowing the level of planning and research he seems to put into management in general. It stands to reason that he would be very particular about who he uses his budget on, in terms of ability, physique, mentality etc. I would imagine there are a lot of boxes that you would need to tick in order to be a player he wants to work with. And this would explain why we ended up not spending the money that appears to be available.
This is it for me. And if it backfires on the manager he's only got himself to blame, but then again he will know this.
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Some but a lot less than are currently I think.
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It hardly screams of ambition or pushing on does it?
Selling Ings for £12 million without a ready made replacement just seems self-sabotaging to me.
Let's all hope and pray that West Ham stay up so we can pocket the clearly desperately needed extra 3 million quid.
Underwhelmed.
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He is very selective about who he wants to work with. I've seen a couple of people suggest that he has been the one to reject certain deals
That's something I have missed. Can you elaborate?
I can try, but there may not be anything to it. I'd just seen a couple of things on Twitter, honestly can't remember who said it now, but it seemed to have some substance. That he was being very particular about who was being brought in - that perhaps the club (Lange) was suggesting people, but he wasn't convinced by them. Was happier to wait until his ideal target came available.
That might be complete rubbish, but it seems to ring true to me, knowing the level of planning and research he seems to put into management in general. It stands to reason that he would be very particular about who he uses his budget on, in terms of ability, physique, mentality etc. I would imagine there are a lot of boxes that you would need to tick in order to be a player he wants to work with. And this would explain why we ended up not spending the money that appears to be available.
This is it for me. And if it backfires on the manager he's only got himself to blame, but then again he will know this.
He's backing himself to get a lot out of what he's got, and I admire that. It's a risk, as you said, but we've made funds available to managers in the past and they've bought for the sake of it - Bruce in his first window buying Hogan was the classic example. He bought him because he could, not because he needed to. Maybe the same last January with Digne and Coutinho?
I really hope we can keep our momentum going for the rest of the season - finishing in the bottom half now would be a huge disappointment.
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I've said numerous times I'd like another one up top, that doesn't mean, because we didn't get one, that the world is going to end.
Yeah but we haven't just not got one more up top - we have one LESS. That's the thing.
We really haven't got 1 less. we play with 2 up front, 1 out and out striker and 1 'loose' forward.
Going into the window we had 4 players to cover those 2 positions: Watkins, Ings, Archer and Bailey. Of those Archer was given very little gametime and Ings didn't really fit (but was scoring goals despite that).
Now we have 4 players to cover those 2 positions: Watkins, Duran, Bailey and Traore. In terms on impact on the team Duran replaces Archer fine because, as above, Archer wasn't being played. That means all that's really happened is we've swapped Ings for Traore and given ourself some competition for Bailey. Yes it means we at risk if Watkins get injured but we had the same risk if Bailey had got injured and Bailey has a much worse fitness record that Watkins for us. It's not ideal and a more experienced option to cover Watkins would've been great but we're not weaker than before and we don't have less options in attack. Lets also not ignore the fact that Bert has played 70-80games as a centre forward and has about a 1 in 2 record there so it's not like he's a complete unknown as a 9.
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He's backing himself to get a lot out of what he's got, and I admire that. It's a risk, as you said, but we've made funds available to managers in the past and they've bought for the sake of it - Bruce in his first window buying Hogan was the classic example. He bought him because he could, not because he needed to. Maybe the same last January with Digne and Coutinho?
I really hope we can keep our momentum going for the rest of the season - finishing in the bottom half now would be a huge disappointment.
Digne was a definite upgrade on Matt Targett who now can't get into the Newcastle side. Coutinho was brilliant for his first ten games and I still hope Emery can get a tune out of him. Getting the most out of your players is a great ability to have as a manager, so why unnecessarily reduce the pool of players from which you can do that?
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Not inspiring but definitely not a disaster. For how many years have we had a bomb squad that we must spend an unhealthy amount of time trying to shift? It feels like we've trimmed the fat and hopefully Nakamba and Sanson have good spells and are easier to sell in the summer.
We are vulnerable to injuries but I'm not entirely sure that things would be any different had we kept hold of people like Sanson and Nakamba. If we lose two or three in midfield, Emery clearly backs himself to find solutions, whether that be moving people into new positions or giving the youth some minutes. I don't think that leaves us much different to having Sanson and Nakamba in midfield.
Ings is the one that upsets people but I think we've got decent value for someone at his age and he clearly wasn't in the plans. Again, a Watkins injury makes things difficult but it would make things difficult with Ings in the squad too as he clearly wasn't the type of player Emery wants. He'll back himself to come up with something using Duran, Bailey, Traore and anyone else he may move further forward (McGinn, Coutinho maybe).
I think that it's time to accept that Archer's future is probably elsewhere unless something dramatic changes. Gregg Evans saying a striker will be targeted in the summer so Archer would be 4th choice unless they have a dramatic change of heart.
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Not as good as we hoped but nowhere near as bad as some are suggesting.
The only outgoing that has weakened us is Ings, Bert coming back has fixed the lack of options for Baileys spot and Duran looks like a good option to cover Watkins.
Overall I'd say the squad is slightly stronger than the start of the window and not bloated with players who weren't playing.
I do think we're a couple of players light of where we want to be but I don't think that's due to a lack of backing but rather Emery deciding to wait on players. I think we'll be back in for Williams and Guendouzi in the summer.
I hope this is right, but i'll be less patient in the next window.
You'll be called a bedwetter too then
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Ings seemed happy to go to West Ham, so I'm sure he and the manager had had "the talk", and it was just sooner rather than later.
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I think moving players on is just as important as recruiting. At least we have a manager that wants to improve the players we have and it is worth persevering with every one of the squad we have currently. My main gripe about Gerrard was that virtually all the players went backwards under him when he inherited the best group since Martin O'Neill arrived.
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I think we're perhaps being a little dramatic. I don't think any promises have been broken or ambitions amended, the players Emery wanted just presumably weren't avaliable at any form of logical price. It would have been great to sign 3/4 quality players and have a serious crack at Europe in the second half of the season, but there's no point signing people if they aren't able to improve the squad.
I understand the argument that it's always the next transfer window with Villa, but this is the first transfer window with a manager of Emery's quality, so I'm not too disappointed that we're (presumably) waiting until the summer before making many serious additions to the squad. Particularly considering some of the shite we've panic signed in January in recent seasons.
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I just think that if we had know January 1st that we would only bring in Moreno and Duran, I think the general reaction would have been one of disappointment.
Hopefully we will continue to improve, but given the impetus that we have had climbing up the table and with a renowned manager in place, I think an opportunity has been missed to strengthen from a relative position of strength.
I don't know enough yet about the two new players to know if they will be a success, or whether Diego Carlos will be good once fully fit, but the squad lacks depth and if we do get losses of form, some injuries or suspensions later on, the club can't really complain about bad luck.
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Not inspiring but definitely not a disaster. For how many years have we had a bomb squad that we must spend an unhealthy amount of time trying to shift? It feels like we've trimmed the fat and hopefully Nakamba and Sanson have good spells and are easier to sell in the summer.
We are vulnerable to injuries but I'm not entirely sure that things would be any different had we kept hold of people like Sanson and Nakamba. If we lose two or three in midfield, Emery clearly backs himself to find solutions, whether that be moving people into new positions or giving the youth some minutes. I don't think that leaves us much different to having Sanson and Nakamba in midfield.
Ings is the one that upsets people but I think we've got decent value for someone at his age and he clearly wasn't in the plans. Again, a Watkins injury makes things difficult but it would make things difficult with Ings in the squad too as he clearly wasn't the type of player Emery wants. He'll back himself to come up with something using Duran, Bailey, Traore and anyone else he may move further forward (McGinn, Coutinho maybe).
I think that it's time to accept that Archer's future is probably elsewhere unless something dramatic changes. Gregg Evans saying a striker will be targeted in the summer so Archer would be 4th choice unless they have a dramatic change of heart.
Archer's potential future career at Villa is far from over.
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I can only think four people have fat fingers and accidentally pressed "Brilliant" in the poll. I would give the club 8/10 for the outgoings, and maybe 3/10 for the incomings. Like loads of others, I think we've left ourselves badly exposed to problems when injuries appear, as they inevitably will. I can see us having one or two VERY makeshift looking line-ups before the season is out.
I trust the coaching staff, and I hope that behind the scenes they're not too unhappy with the lack of signings. It now simply has to be a massive summer for us on recruitment. January definitely feels like an opportunity missed, given our form and league position.
A top half finish and a bit of form carried into the summer and all will be forgiven.
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I think had Archer been in the building yesterday, he probably wouldn't have been allowed to go following us not getting a replacement for Ings.
As it is, for his development 6 months starting in a promotion push should really help him, and he's clearly got something when you see the reaction to his performance at the weekend.
For us, the Ings debate was settled for Emery against Leeds I reckon. He came on and 3-4 times was needed to sprint to get to a ball first and help us retain possession. He looked like he was doing a comedy impression of Bad Grampa on a zimmer he was so slow, and that just wasn't good enough.
Getting Bertie back is a decent option once fit, he's a good size and started out as an out and out striker, so could play there if needed, and let's face it, if he hits any form he's fun to watch.
This summer has become massive for the owners though. Its the summer where Kamara, Martinez, Ramsey, Luiz etc will be looking at our business to assess if we really are ambitious, or just like saying it.
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He's backing himself to get a lot out of what he's got, and I admire that. It's a risk, as you said, but we've made funds available to managers in the past and they've bought for the sake of it - Bruce in his first window buying Hogan was the classic example. He bought him because he could, not because he needed to. Maybe the same last January with Digne and Coutinho?
I really hope we can keep our momentum going for the rest of the season - finishing in the bottom half now would be a huge disappointment.
Digne was a definite upgrade on Matt Targett who now can't get into the Newcastle side. Coutinho was brilliant for his first ten games and I still hope Emery can get a tune out of him. Getting the most out of your players is a great ability to have as a manager, so why unnecessarily reduce the pool of players from which you can do that?
Digne was no better than Targett in that crazy Gerrard formation, definitely a worse defender too. The fact Targett can't get into a CL chasing Newcastle team is neither here nor there (think he has been injured recently anyway?). By already buying a new left back Emery has made clear what he thinks of Digne (and I think without rapid improvement Matt Cash could be in the same camp soon). I think Digne will be out the door in the summer.
Coutinho was no better than Buendia and has been utterly rubbish for ages. He was fine as a punt on loan last January but it was a lazy vanity signing from Gerrard to get him in permanently last summer. I'd be stunned if he turns his career around in the second half of the season.
Maybe we were all hoping for a January like when we got Young and Carew in but I don't think those kind of options were available this time.
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Signing Coutinho only created an issue with playing him or Buendia, it solved absolutely nothing. Exactly the kind of shitshow recruitment that led Everton to where they are now.
So many things from that short reign, right from the moment Gerrard was linked, felt instinctively wrong, but you love your team and want to hope for the best outcome so you try and convince yourself it will be ok.
I'm probably doing the same thing now over transfer activity.
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
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He's backing himself to get a lot out of what he's got, and I admire that. It's a risk, as you said, but we've made funds available to managers in the past and they've bought for the sake of it - Bruce in his first window buying Hogan was the classic example. He bought him because he could, not because he needed to. Maybe the same last January with Digne and Coutinho?
I really hope we can keep our momentum going for the rest of the season - finishing in the bottom half now would be a huge disappointment.
Digne was a definite upgrade on Matt Targett who now can't get into the Newcastle side. Coutinho was brilliant for his first ten games and I still hope Emery can get a tune out of him. Getting the most out of your players is a great ability to have as a manager, so why unnecessarily reduce the pool of players from which you can do that?
Yeah, I can't argue with that - Digne is better than Targett, and signing Coutinho was a major coup, so we'd have been silly not to. I guess my point was, those signings didn't make us a better team. Our form tailed off massively not long after they arrived, so did we need them? Or, rather, should we have made them our priority last January? Or did we just get them in because we could? Obviously, our problems in 2022 were much deeper than these two players - we had a very poor manager.
In terms of getting more out of a reduced pool of players - I don't know for sure, and I would have definitely preferred to have a couple of extra players in, but perhaps one of these is the case:
He only wants to work with players that can play how he wants to play - Ings/Sanson etc don't have the physical capabilities to do what he wants, so they are of no use to us.
A smaller squad could force more responsibility onto the players that we have, which could get better performances out of them
He's seen more in Duran/other youth players than he is letting on
Specific to Ings - his knee injury was being managed with shortened training sessions. His influence was going to tail off anyway - the £15m in the summer is much more useful than he was going to be for the next 4 months.
I don't know whether any of that will prove correct, but I think there is a little more to it than fewer players = worse results. It could all come crashing down with a freak injury to Watkins in training, or a nasty tackle in the first minute on Saturday. I hope it doesn't.
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
Because this one has a proven manager in charge?
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
Because this one has a proven manager in charge?
I imagine the same logic could have been made on January 1st about why this January might be better than previous ones.
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re the 'clearing the decks' thing - Sanson and Nakamba will be back in the summer, so we'll have to clear those decks again.
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
Because this one has a proven manager in charge?
So this but also what gaps are there in the squad and how many players in the squad need to be replaced to give us a shot of that the top 7-8 ? For me...
Gaps: Striker and versatile midfielder (to cover central and out wide).
Replace: Olsen, Chambers, maybe Coutinho, Bert/Bailey (replace 1 of them with a more consistent option and keep the other as an option) and Dendoncker
So as little as 4 signings could be enough to make us genuinely competitive in the top half of the league. We've seen links to people like Williams and Guendouzi, if that's the sort of level we sign players at then we could have a really strong squad come September.
and it'll be easier because there's only a handful of players to go out as well.
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
Because this one has a proven manager in charge?
I imagine the same logic could have been made on January 1st about why this January might be better than previous ones.
January is different though, nobody's contract expires in that month for a start
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re the 'clearing the decks' thing - Sanson and Nakamba will be back in the summer, so we'll have to clear those decks again.
Easier to sell people who have been playing somewhere
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
This is where i am now at also. Always seems to be "we tried" but its about the next window being "the big one" . Then we do this over and over.
Yes its clear our recruitment has not been good enough to date but our net spend of circa £40m over 4 windows does not overly scream ambition.
I do fully expect a sea of change now though for one reason and one reason only... Emery
Lange is toast. We will have a new DOF in charge of football sides and one that's picked by Emery, them two will then work together to move this football club forwards.
Purslow will stay quiet in the background like has done since UE came in and concentrate on the commercial side
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Yep. Sanson might impress over in France and his club might be happy to make the deal permanent and if Nakamba does well for Luton, he may well be picked up too.
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And I will get a date with the insta model I am following...st..
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I was expecting us to get our targets so disappointed we didn't. Both selling Ings and loaning out Archer seems a strange decision, especially given Duran is an unknown quantity. Traore, OK, better than a panic buy. As other people have stated, it seems like we wasted an opportunity to push on.
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
Because this one has a proven manager in charge?
It is a good point Lee but we've heard it so many times before that my view is that i'll 'believe when i see it' and my gut is that once again we won't.
The classic one, different owner i know, but Lerners first summer with O Neill, many of us expecting to see something a bit like what Chelsea had been doing and we went on to sign the likes of Harewood, Davies on loan and Carson on loan.
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And I will get a date with the insta model I am following...st..
I've told you again and again, McDonalds is not a suitable venue
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Even when Gerrard was in charge all the talk was of 'getting targets in early'. Which we did to an extent but we were still players light at the end of it as we are now.
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In isolation I don't think it was *that* bad but in the context of the last couple of years it isn't a good reflection of our general recruitment.
Moreno might be decent but he is our third left back signing in the space of 12 months, the fact we even needed an upgrade in that position doesn't reflect well on Lange/Purslow.
Ings should never have been signed in the first place, total panic buy and that left us in a position where we felt like we had to sell him just to claw back some of the wasted money. Surely we knew there was interest in advance, and should have been prepared for it?
Seeing as Archer was not used at all this season, he should have been loaned out in August. If he had been we might now have been able to recall him as an option having had that additional experience. We shouldn't have agreed to the Boro loan till the end of the window either.
We quite clearly needed a winger in the summer, but bailed on Sarr and did nothing. That left us hunting in the window when it is 'notoriously difficult to sign players.' Now we will go a whole season without that gap being filled, limiting the formations we can play. It isn't exactly a good advert for our scouting team that we couldn't find a single winger that could have been a better option than a recalled Traore who hasn't been fit for 18 months now.
Duran could turn out to be a great signing but we shouldn't expect him to be prime Benteke from day 1, much more likely to need a JPA length settling in period.
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I still think letting Ings go now was dumb. He may not have been brilliant for us, but he was still our top scorer ffs. Presumably Watkins is now going to have to be an ever present, playing 90 minutes every game?
I don't see why we couldn't have kept Ings until the summer. We might have got a bit less for him, sure, but it wouldn't have been nothing.
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I understand the frustration. I would have felt it myself last year. But I can see both sides of this. And if not splashing on third or fourth choices means we end up with more like Kamara, then I wont complain.
Although I strongly disagree about sending Archer out. He should have stayed & been utilised in our first team.
I have said it before though, there is no excuse not to have a massive summer with several marquee signings now though. No excuses. No kicking the can down the road. And more work needs to be done to identify third or fourth options that are viable to improve us. They are clearly out there. The world is a big place, so there can be no excuses in the summer. If nothing happens in the summer, then we have every right to kick off at the board.
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A lot of the points on here go back to managerial appointments and having to chop and change. Hopefully, Emery's here for a while and we can break the cycle.
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
This is where i am now at also. Always seems to be "we tried" but its about the next window being "the big one" . Then we do this over and over.
Yes its clear our recruitment has not been good enough to date but our net spend of circa £40m over 4 windows does not overly scream ambition.
I do fully expect a sea of change now though for one reason and one reason only... Emery
Lange is toast. We will have a new DOF in charge of football sides and one that's picked by Emery, them two will then work together to move this football club forwards.
Purslow will stay quiet in the background like has done since UE came in and concentrate on the commercial side
My expectation is now that we aren't going to spend our way into Europe and our path, should we get there, is more in the smaller-club-managed-by-amazing-manager mould. So be it, we have what looks like an amazing manager. Let's hope he (or our better players) doesn't get pissed off with it before they can defy the odds.
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A long range prediction that I hope will come back and bite me firmly on the arse. Next season, ie 23/24, the top 7 will be Man City, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Spurs (in whatever order), with us no higher than 10th. I think we've missed a big chance to kick on this January, and however good Emery is, he won't be given the tools to improve us further.
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Not sure why but I don't have a lot of confidence in Lange.
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Not sure why but I don't have a lot of confidence in Lange.
Not sure Emery does either.
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A long range prediction that I hope will come back and bite me firmly on the arse. Next season, ie 23/24, the top 7 will be Man City, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Spurs (in whatever order), with us no higher than 10th. I think we've missed a big chance to kick on this January, and however good Emery is, he won't be given the tools to improve us further.
Spurs should be more vulnerable next season.
Think they'll sell Kane and Son looks like he's declining now so feels like they'll be in transition under whoever they appoint post Conte. Will be in Chelsea's position this time next year.
However it will be a long time before Chelsea and Liverpool are in as poor a state as now so imo that's a chance to finish above at least one of them we've wasted with lax transfer window.
I thought after beating us Liverpool would go on a good run but they've since lost meekly at Brighton twice and Brentford so don't have a feel of a team who's going to win 5-6 straight anytime soon.
And Chelsea have signed too many to get any sort of consistency. In the summer it will probably settle down.
We are only 3 points off 6th with a very winnable home game coming up (and plenty of winnable fixtures before the March international break). We can probably grind out some more wins but it all becomes a struggle if we lose Watkins or Kamara for a few weeks.
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
This is where i am now at also. Always seems to be "we tried" but its about the next window being "the big one" . Then we do this over and over.
Yes its clear our recruitment has not been good enough to date but our net spend of circa £40m over 4 windows does not overly scream ambition.
I do fully expect a sea of change now though for one reason and one reason only... Emery
Lange is toast. We will have a new DOF in charge of football sides and one that's picked by Emery, them two will then work together to move this football club forwards.
Purslow will stay quiet in the background like has done since UE came in and concentrate on the commercial side
There are probably a few realistic scenarios about what happened and what will happen.
Either Emery is quite content with what has just happened, in which case it's on him if things go massively wrong from here. His job isn't on the line, but he could lose a lot of goodwill from the owners and fans if things go badly, but will probably be given money to put it right in the summer. If things go pretty well from here, maybe even have a chance of European qualification, he'll be backed in the summer with money that he didn't spend in January and a bit more, and targets will already have been identified (a la Kamara and Carlos last summer) - we get in some 'next level' players and kick on from there.
Or, he's quite frustrated with the lack of results. Huge changes afoot, and he'll want to put his stamp on the recruitment side of things. Could be a fair bit of internal strife (Purslow on thin ice?), but you would imagine the owners will back Emery given that he is their man, and presumably he was promised a fair amount of control when he joined. He gets his team in, and the start from scratch in the summer. Potentially risky, as we're tethering everything to one man, but in the hope that he gets us making the step up next season. There will be no excuses then.
I guess the worst case scenario is that this is all Emery's making, and he gets it all wrong, we end up finishing 14th or lower and he doesn't know how to fix it in the summer. We get off to a terrible start next season and he goes - we start all over again next October. Personally, I think that is not very likely at all, but who knows?
For what it's worth - I think there is money there. I think we'll continue to do pretty well in the league, particularly against the better teams, and we'll finish 8th or 9th. The in the summer we will spend big on 3 or 4 players that will come into our first team. A forward, a winger and a midfielder (Thuram, Williams and Guendouzi would be the dream) and we'll be a force to be reckoned with next season - our best season since 95/96.
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With Ings gone, we've lost a decent goalscorer. Will Traore / Coutinho be able to provide the same goals in a subs role? Not so sure. If Bailey takes penalties maybe he'll get the goals - he is on 4 with no pens. I think we've left ourselves vulnerable for no real reason - surely £15M for Ings was not to get us out of debt.
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Not sure why but I don't have a lot of confidence in Lange.
It might be unfair to say it since i don't know the guy but he just looks like a bit of a twat doesn't he?
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A long range prediction that I hope will come back and bite me firmly on the arse. Next season, ie 23/24, the top 7 will be Man City, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Spurs (in whatever order), with us no higher than 10th. I think we've missed a big chance to kick on this January, and however good Emery is, he won't be given the tools to improve us further.
Spurs should be more vulnerable next season.
Think they'll sell Kane and Son looks like he's declining now so feels like they'll be in transition under whoever they appoint post Conte. Will be in Chelsea's position this time next year.
Will need a new goalkeeper as well. I fully expect Pochettino to rock up there again in the summer.
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A long range prediction that I hope will come back and bite me firmly on the arse. Next season, ie 23/24, the top 7 will be Man City, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Spurs (in whatever order), with us no higher than 10th. I think we've missed a big chance to kick on this January, and however good Emery is, he won't be given the tools to improve us further.
I am of a similar mindset; I wouldn't look past those teams. There is often one outlier that breaks things up - e.g. Burnley, Wolves and maybe Brighton this season, and maybe that could be us next season.
However, we should try to get to 7th this season as that may well get a European place. Assuming we don't have a calamitous second half of the season, finishing 8th-10th is good considering where we were in November, but it really is no guarantee of moving onwards and upwards next season, so why not really aim for higher with some rewards as well?
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A long range prediction that I hope will come back and bite me firmly on the arse. Next season, ie 23/24, the top 7 will be Man City, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Spurs (in whatever order), with us no higher than 10th. I think we've missed a big chance to kick on this January, and however good Emery is, he won't be given the tools to improve us further.
Spurs should be more vulnerable next season.
Think they'll sell Kane and Son looks like he's declining now so feels like they'll be in transition under whoever they appoint post Conte. Will be in Chelsea's position this time next year.
Will need a new goalkeeper as well. I fully expect Pochettino to rock up there again in the summer.
Just heard about Contes health problems, could be even sooner.
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Just heard about Contes health problems, could be even sooner.
He's having his gallbladder removed, he won't be joining in with 5 asides for a few weeks, but he'll be right as rain after that.
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Wasn't great. The only hope I really have from it is that the players we have beeen linked heavily with are all out of contract in the summer and we have tapped them up. There seems to be a lot of investment in the youth side of the club which would please me if it becomes a sustainable model. We like to swear about the big boys chucking cash around and calling it the death of football but then all seem keen for Villa to do the same. Not a criticism of any particular poster, you understand, I'm as guilty as anybody of wanting to splurge £150m on 3 world class players.
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We like to swear about the big boys chucking cash around and calling it the death of football but then all seem keen for Villa to do the same. Not a criticism of any particular poster, you understand, I'm as guilty as anybody of wanting to splurge £150m on 3 world class players.
That's the industry we're in though. We don't currently have a recognised youth team player in the squad with a single second of first team experience, so we're miles away from that paying dividends. I think Iroegbunam is worth having next season, but nobody other than him is likely to get much of a chance I'd suggest.
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
This is a really good question. I think it goes to the heart of what it means to be a Villa fan. For me, I love the expectation and anticipation of what is to come. The tantalising future that is just out of reach. Don't get me wrong, I love the here and now. I'm elated when we win, I'm despondent when we lose - but I'm also enthralled by the promise of what might happen tomorrow, what we are on the cusp of achieving. It's the reason we all follow the youth players so much more closely these days (well, me anyway). If you can't look towards the summer and let yourself get a little bit carried away a bit with what 'might be', then what's the point?
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A long range prediction that I hope will come back and bite me firmly on the arse. Next season, ie 23/24, the top 7 will be Man City, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Spurs (in whatever order), with us no higher than 10th. I think we've missed a big chance to kick on this January, and however good Emery is, he won't be given the tools to improve us further.
Spurs should be more vulnerable next season.
Think they'll sell Kane and Son looks like he's declining now so feels like they'll be in transition under whoever they appoint post Conte. Will be in Chelsea's position this time next year.
Will need a new goalkeeper as well. I fully expect Pochettino to rock up there again in the summer.
Will need a good year to sort things out if he returns. Not like they did much in 2014/15 and I think he'd take over in a similar state as I think they'll finish 7th/8th.
This is where we were in the league two years ago after beating Arsenal 1-0 in Feb 2021:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55867137
Above both Arsenal and Spurs in the table. Less than a year later due to a few decisions we were miles off both in the league.
If you snooze in the premier league, you pretty much lose everytime nowadays.
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It’s started already with Ashley Preece saying the next window is going to me massive for us. I think I’ll reserve judgment on that.
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This is a really good question. I think it goes to the heart of what it means to be a Villa fan. For me, I love the expectation and anticipation of what is to come. The tantalising future that is just out of reach. Don't get me wrong, I love the here and now. I'm elated when we win, I'm despondent when we lose - but I'm also enthralled by the promise of what might happen tomorrow, what we are on the cusp of achieving. It's the reason we all follow the youth players so much more closely these days (well, me anyway). If you can't look towards the summer and let yourself get a little bit carried away a bit with what 'might be', then what's the point?
Because the reality rarely matches the expectation, and there are only so times you can allow yourself to be fooled.
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We like to swear about the big boys chucking cash around and calling it the death of football but then all seem keen for Villa to do the same. Not a criticism of any particular poster, you understand, I'm as guilty as anybody of wanting to splurge £150m on 3 world class players.
That's the industry we're in though. We don't currently have a recognised youth team player in the squad with a single second of first team experience, so we're miles away from that paying dividends. I think Iroegbunam is worth having next season, but nobody other than him is likely to get much of a chance I'd suggest.
There is an opportunity in the second half of the season though to start giving some more of the youth players experience at least in the match day squad. Instead of filling up the bench with the likes of Sanson, Bednarek, Nakamba etc. who rarely get on the pitch, we can have 3 or 4 youngsters on there alongside the recognised players who do get on the pitch. As someone else said, you can only use 5 subs out of 9 - fans of pretty much every club could tell you which of their bench is going to get on each week.
The players getting on the bench this season then get to go out on loan next with that experience behind them. Hopefully the ones on loan this year who do well (Iroegbunam, hopefully Archer) come back into the fold in the summer, ready to be in realistic contention for the first team. By it's very nature it doesn't happen overnight, but creating a pathway by not clogging up the squad with expensive filler is surely sensible.
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Following football is a hobby. I'm happy to be optimistic about the future and enjoy the ride. That probably makes me a fool but there's no point being stressed out or miserable about something I have zero control of
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Some Aston Villa fans were frustrated by the club's underwhelming final weeks of the January transfer window, but it wasn't for the lack of trying.
Unai Emery is determined to build a team which is capable of consistently challenging for European football. That will only happen if Villa improve their first XI, allowing the overall squad to improve with more competition for places following the arrivals of quality individuals.
There was money available for Emery to spend last month and he will be backed heavily in the summer window by owners Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens. But shelling out huge transfer fees just because Villa happen to be three points from the top six is a short-term approach which the club's ownership do not want to be tempted into.
Granted, if Villa broke their transfer record twice last month, Emery's squad would have improved, but simply put, every club is reluctant to sell their top players halfway through the season. An experienced striker was of interest after the sale of Danny Ings, but Emery doesn't want to stockpile players who he sees no use for in the long-term.
Liverpool and Chelsea are both enduring poor seasons, so far, but Villa can forget about competition for the top seven - if they get their own house in order and trust Emery's decision making, they'll get there, just like Leicester City and West Ham have done in recent years. Villa will then become the latest club to threaten the upper echelons of English football.
The difference is, Villa intend to stick at the top, not only qualify for European football one season and struggle to cope with those demands in the years to follow. Therefore, Emery will only sign the players who he knows will improve his squad, rather than plug gaps for short-term gain.
By John Townley Football writer
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/nswe-avoided-aston-villa-transfer-26126543
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This is a really good question. I think it goes to the heart of what it means to be a Villa fan. For me, I love the expectation and anticipation of what is to come. The tantalising future that is just out of reach. Don't get me wrong, I love the here and now. I'm elated when we win, I'm despondent when we lose - but I'm also enthralled by the promise of what might happen tomorrow, what we are on the cusp of achieving. It's the reason we all follow the youth players so much more closely these days (well, me anyway). If you can't look towards the summer and let yourself get a little bit carried away a bit with what 'might be', then what's the point?
Because the reality rarely matches the expectation, and there are only so times you can allow yourself to be fooled.
Of course, and if my support of Villa were like any other aspect of my life, relationships, business, social, I'd have dumped them years ago. But it's not. It's closer to the relationship you have with a child. To a certain extent it's unconditional - and for that reason I choose to be optimistic about the summer, even if the evidence seems to points to me being disappointed again. I'm not saying there is a right/wrong way to look to the future of the club, or the next transfer window in particular - we are all free to see things however we want, I'm merely explaining why I CHOOSE to be optimistic about the summer.
Will I be disappointed when the summer transfer window closes? Quite possibly. Will I try and stay optimistic about what we might do until it's no longer possible to sign anyone else? Absolutely.
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That article makes little sense to me, sounds like a cop out, but we shall see I guess. In order to stay in Europe you need to qualify first and if we don’t look ambitious players won’t come in the first place or they won’t stay for long if they do. We need the show consistent and material progress, and part of that is not taking a window off when it’s clear we need to be strengthened.
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Following football is a hobby. I'm happy to be optimistic about the future and enjoy the ride. That probably makes me a fool but there's no point being stressed out or miserable about something I have zero control of
This. If people think they are being fooled, then that's up to them.
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That article makes little sense to me, sounds like a cop out, but we shall see I guess. In order to stay in Europe you need to qualify first and if we don’t look ambitious players won’t come in the first place or they won’t stay for long if they do. We need the show consistent and material progress, and part of that is not taking a window off when it’s clear we need to be strengthened.
Looks like Preece and Townley are just being fed propaganda by the club, probably with the promise of being kept in the loop.
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You can add evans to that list too.
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I reckon some posters on H&V give too much 'importance' to the January transfer window. It has nearly always been crap and will probably always be. Mostly desperate clubs splash the cash then.
If there was a quality player out there who we could of got in January to strengthen our squad, I would seriously question his mentality, attitude and commitment if he was prepared to abandon his existing club to join us mid season. We don't want 'me,me,me' players at the club. We want team players.
Would you want Anthony Gordon next to you in the trenches? Me neither.
I am confident we will have a massive transfer budget next summer.
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I’m not sure I buy into this ‘we didn’t get the targets we were after’ spin if I’m honest, too many things just don’t add up.
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Guendouzi would have been interesting but not sure who would have been dropped and Dembele would have been a pretty safe bet as a striker. Not really fussed about the other links. Williams would have bit of a dream signing but pretty expensive.
Yes, Ings going seemed like it left us vulnerable but frankly he could have got injured for us and be out for ages. I think - reading between the lines - Emery is a gent - he wanted to give Ings and Archer a fair chance to keep playing.
On Archer - as much as he looks ok in Boro highlights - when a couple of managers don't trust you - maybe there is something in that....
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Just glad it’s over.
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Following football is a hobby. I'm happy to be optimistic about the future and enjoy the ride. That probably makes me a fool but there's no point being stressed out or miserable about something I have zero control of
This. If people think they are being fooled, then that's up to them.
It's borderline psychotic the level of paranoia about the club 'tricking people & feeding propaganda etc'
I'd love villa to be massively successful, if they fuck it up I'll still love them either way.
My foolish view is that Emery (and he has said this publicly) couldn't get the targets he wanted for a price that wouldn't have negatively impacted his other signings and will wait till summer. We have a world class coach who I believe will improve the players we have, and he is the reason we will be attractive in the summer. Just my opinion, but I'm pretty shocked and at the levels of hysteria on here. Let's see how it pans out before throwing ourselves to floor wailing
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Earlier this season the main issue was we might be getting pulled into a relegation fight. Now, we are worried about not getting into Europe. There is still half a season to go and we are on a upward trajectory. Overall, I am pleased the way we are going as it could be a lot worse. We have a top.class manager and winning matches. I'll judge end of the season and see who we get in during the summer.
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Following football is a hobby. I'm happy to be optimistic about the future and enjoy the ride. That probably makes me a fool but there's no point being stressed out or miserable about something I have zero control of
This. If people think they are being fooled, then that's up to them.
It's borderline psychotic the level of paranoia about the club 'tricking people & feeding propaganda etc'
I'd love villa to be massively successful, if they fuck it up I'll still love them either way.
My foolish view is that Emery (and he has said this publicly) couldn't get the targets he wanted for a price that wouldn't have negatively impacted his other signings and will wait till summer. We have a world class coach who I believe will improve the players we have, and he is the reason we will be attractive in the summer. Just my opinion, but I'm pretty shocked and at the levels of hysteria on here. Let's see how it pans out before throwing ourselves to floor wailing
Yep. I totally understand the disappointment, and I tend to agree with some of it but some of the comments made today are just weird.
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I’m torn. Whist on the one had it seems ludicrous to let 2 of three centre forwards go, I’m also glad we aren’t just buying people for the sake of it.
I’d have kept Ings , even it wiped a chunk off he’s value in the summer. Or even loaned him with a view to buy in the summer ( assuming a recall was possible )
Maybe Uni can get a tune out of Bert. But really he’s more cover for Bailey than a striker.
Hopefully we get lucky with injuries for the next few months
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Following football is a hobby. I'm happy to be optimistic about the future and enjoy the ride. That probably makes me a fool but there's no point being stressed out or miserable about something I have zero control of
This. If people think they are being fooled, then that's up to them.
It's borderline psychotic the level of paranoia about the club 'tricking people & feeding propaganda etc'
I'd love villa to be massively successful, if they fuck it up I'll still love them either way.
My foolish view is that Emery (and he has said this publicly) couldn't get the targets he wanted for a price that wouldn't have negatively impacted his other signings and will wait till summer. We have a world class coach who I believe will improve the players we have, and he is the reason we will be attractive in the summer. Just my opinion, but I'm pretty shocked and at the levels of hysteria on here. Let's see how it pans out before throwing ourselves to floor wailing
I find the forelock tugging and bowing down even more strange if I'm honest, but each to their own. There also doesn't seem to be any hysteria, just disappointment that we haven't strengthened. So as well as deep seated obsequiousness I'd also suspect a general lack of ability to understand what's been written.
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I trust Emery, so I don't have any issues with the transfer window.
I don't want Villa to be held to ransom over signings.
If we get into Europe fine, if we don't fine, it will happen just enjoy the ups and downs along the way!
UTV
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Following football is a hobby. I'm happy to be optimistic about the future and enjoy the ride. That probably makes me a fool but there's no point being stressed out or miserable about something I have zero control of
This. If people think they are being fooled, then that's up to them.
It's borderline psychotic the level of paranoia about the club 'tricking people & feeding propaganda etc'
I'd love villa to be massively successful, if they fuck it up I'll still love them either way.
My foolish view is that Emery (and he has said this publicly) couldn't get the targets he wanted for a price that wouldn't have negatively impacted his other signings and will wait till summer. We have a world class coach who I believe will improve the players we have, and he is the reason we will be attractive in the summer. Just my opinion, but I'm pretty shocked and at the levels of hysteria on here. Let's see how it pans out before throwing ourselves to floor wailing
I find the forelock tugging and bowing down even more strange if I'm honest, but each to their own. There also doesn't seem to be any hysteria, just disappointment that we haven't strengthened. So as well as deep seated obsequiousness I'd also suspect a general lack of ability to understand what's been written.
Politely calling me stupid isn't the best way to make a sensible argument. Suspect you feel targeted, which is understandable. Also, just to clarify that you're talking about Aston Villa, a football team, and not North Korea?
Also it's ok just to have differing opinions, but I do find that the last week the very same overstated 'disappointed' posters keep making the same negative comments over and over again, and it's pretty draining.
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I have accepted that there are quite a number of clubs with more resources and pull than us. Arsenal, Man city, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U , Newcastle and Tottenham. Whilst occasionally another team will upset the order, this is what it is. What will be interesting to see, if and when we finish somewhere in the European spots, is whether we can become one of these types of teams.
There’s certainly a gap being opened up IMO and I’m hoping our owners show their ambitions to close it.
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Whatever way we wrap it up, if Watkins gets injured we are fucked.
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I’m torn. Whist on the one had it seems ludicrous to let 2 of three centre forwards go, I’m also glad we aren’t just buying people for the sake of it.
I’d have kept Ings , even it wiped a chunk off he’s value in the summer. Or even loaned him with a view to buy in the summer ( assuming a recall was possible )
Maybe Uni can get a tune out of Bert. But really he’s more cover for Bailey than a striker.
Hopefully we get lucky with injuries for the next few months
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bertrand-traore/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/131996
Centre Forward - 76 apps, 39 goals, 11 assists.
He's played a fair few internationals up front as well.
He's not primarily a centre forward, I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise but he's played there enough, and with enough success, to think it's something he is comfortable doing as cover. I think he's here to be competition for both forward roles for 6 months and then it'll be reviewed in the summer, which I'm ok with.
If he can get 4-5 goals and a few assists in that time then he's done his job, and his record suggests that's a pretty reasonable expectation.
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I'd have liked some additional firepower but I can understand the apparent thought process and I'm comfortable with it for now. No forelock tugging or bowing down, I'm just not allowing myself to be bothered by it if the manager isn't. It may be by incompetence or it may be by design, who knows, but we'll soon see.
What I'm certain of is, even if we had a mad run and finished 5th, someone would say if we'd signed another player in January we could've made the Champions League.
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Politely calling me stupid isn't the best way to make a sensible argument.
And yet you think that accusations of psychosis is polite behaviour?
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Politely calling me stupid isn't the best way to make a sensible argument.
And yet you think that accusations of psychosis is polite behaviour?
Babe, please. It's gonna be ok, honest
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If there was a quality player out there who we could of got in January to strengthen our squad, I would seriously question his mentality, attitude and commitment if he was prepared to abandon his existing club to join us mid season. We don't want 'me,me,me' players at the club. We want team players.
Would you want Anthony Gordon next to you in the trenches? Me neither
Newcastle fans never seem to stop whinging about the mentality and attitude of Trippier and Guimares.
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Whatever way we wrap it up, if Watkins gets injured we are fucked.
It's not like it's likely to be raining goals with him, either.
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Just glad it’s over.
This I do agree with.
I was watching the SSN coverage last night and felt dirty for doing it. Like I do after giving in to temptation and eating a KFC mighty bucket for one. Guilty.
It's so mind numbingly fucking crushing and hyped beyond belief, I hate it.
But I can't help getting reeled in like the weak spirit I undoubtedly am.
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Whatever way we wrap it up, if Watkins gets injured we are fucked.
It's not like it's likely to be raining goals with him, either.
remind me, the last time it did?
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I think it was about 2008
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Looking at transfers made across the month of January I don’t think that many top players have moved as clubs don’t want to sell half way through a season. Only Chelsea seems to have got players that they wanted, and they have spent way overt the odds to get them.
Getting rid of fringe players is fine by me, it doesn’t look like our targets were being allowed to leave in January. If we were to buy any players, I want them to be an upgrade on current first teamers.
I hope that the managers targets are being persuaded in the background to move in the summer to Villa when clubs are more likely to sell.
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I’m torn. Whist on the one had it seems ludicrous to let 2 of three centre forwards go, I’m also glad we aren’t just buying people for the sake of it.
I’d have kept Ings , even it wiped a chunk off he’s value in the summer. Or even loaned him with a view to buy in the summer ( assuming a recall was possible )
Maybe Uni can get a tune out of Bert. But really he’s more cover for Bailey than a striker.
Hopefully we get lucky with injuries for the next few months
For me the big question is can Emery get a tune out of Ollie Watkins. If he can return Ollie to getting the goals he was getting a couple of seasons back, we'll be fine providing he avoids the obvious injuries that would leave us relying on playing false nines.
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How you view where we stand now after Emery's first few games will probably define how you rate the transfer window.
Have we under achieved, achieved what we should have or over achieved. If the latter, there will be more players that will need replacing than look apparent.
My first impressions are that he is working on units around the pitch. He has started on how to defend and play the ball out from the back with focus on the actual defenders and how they work with the midfield. I think the next phase is the midfield working with the forwards. Once that is firmly established it will by the type and quality of forwards we need.
For me, the jury is still out on a number of players that are in the first team if we are going to be a team that is consistently above 8th in the table. Football is not about individuals it is a team game and how those individuals complement and combine with others. Getting it right and building that sound base takes time due to not everything working how you expect or want it to work.
I was talking to a Wolves fan at work yesterday and discussing the year they played in Europe. His view was that it screwed them up for a long time because of the amount of games that had to play and the very early start to the season. You have to be ready for it with an established squad of players. Even with a couple of extra players in the window just gone and a few players in the summer, I do not think we would be ready. We have been fighting an uphill battle since we were promoted with it seeming as though every game was a must win game. One of the reasons why I believe we have not been able to develop young players around the first team.
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Looking at Ollie's stats - they seem consistent over the last 6 seasons about 1 goal in 3 games or below. His last season at Brentford was the exception. After that it went back to 10-14 goals a season. Maybe he is a wide player who had a freak good season as a makeshift striker?
I’m torn. Whist on the one had it seems ludicrous to let 2 of three centre forwards go, I’m also glad we aren’t just buying people for the sake of it.
I’d have kept Ings , even it wiped a chunk off he’s value in the summer. Or even loaned him with a view to buy in the summer ( assuming a recall was possible )
Maybe Uni can get a tune out of Bert. But really he’s more cover for Bailey than a striker.
Hopefully we get lucky with injuries for the next few months
For me the big question is can Emery get a tune out of Ollie Watkins. If he can return Ollie to getting the goals he was getting a couple of seasons back, we'll be fine providing he avoids the obvious injuries that would leave us relying on playing false nines.
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If there was a quality player out there who we could of got in January to strengthen our squad, I would seriously question his mentality, attitude and commitment if he was prepared to abandon his existing club to join us mid season. We don't want 'me,me,me' players at the club. We want team players.
Would you want Anthony Gordon next to you in the trenches? Me neither
Newcastle fans never seem to stop whinging about the mentality and attitude of Trippier and Guimares.
For all we know Trippier could be shagging a Geordie lass and Guimares hairdresser moved to Newcastle!! :) They are exceptions to the rule, obviously lured by tonnes of blood money and have no moral scruples.
Newcastle are 'one headline' away from disaster. Let's see how Trippier/Guimares/Newcastle fans handle that situation.
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Some Aston Villa fans were frustrated by the club's underwhelming final weeks of the January transfer window, but it wasn't for the lack of trying.
Unai Emery is determined to build a team which is capable of consistently challenging for European football. That will only happen if Villa improve their first XI, allowing the overall squad to improve with more competition for places following the arrivals of quality individuals.
There was money available for Emery to spend last month and he will be backed heavily in the summer window by owners Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens. But shelling out huge transfer fees just because Villa happen to be three points from the top six is a short-term approach which the club's ownership do not want to be tempted into.
Granted, if Villa broke their transfer record twice last month, Emery's squad would have improved, but simply put, every club is reluctant to sell their top players halfway through the season. An experienced striker was of interest after the sale of Danny Ings, but Emery doesn't want to stockpile players who he sees no use for in the long-term.
Liverpool and Chelsea are both enduring poor seasons, so far, but Villa can forget about competition for the top seven - if they get their own house in order and trust Emery's decision making, they'll get there, just like Leicester City and West Ham have done in recent years. Villa will then become the latest club to threaten the upper echelons of English football.
The difference is, Villa intend to stick at the top, not only qualify for European football one season and struggle to cope with those demands in the years to follow. Therefore, Emery will only sign the players who he knows will improve his squad, rather than plug gaps for short-term gain.
By John Townley Football writer
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/nswe-avoided-aston-villa-transfer-26126543
One thing, if this is "the official line from the club" and there is that feel to it, then they have stated they are going to heavily back Emery in the Summer so that's something to keep in mind.
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Looking at Ollie's stats - they seem consistent over the last 6 seasons about 1 goal in 3 games or below. His last season at Brentford was the exception. After that it went back to 10-14 goals a season. Maybe he is a wide player who had a freak good season as a makeshift striker?
His current stats are every one in 4.2 games (4 goals in 19 games), decent numbers for a centre half but not your only striker. We've all seen him lead the line, score some cracking goals over the years, more recently we've all seen the ball bounce off him, look like he's wearing Ronald McDonald's shoes and run around like an excited labrador. Maybe Ollie's strengths were not lost on Emery and realised we needed wingers and attacking full backs to get the crosses into the box early for him to attack. It was top of his shopping list afterall.
If we can speed up our passing game and play to his strengths I reckon we'll see a return of the player that joined us from Brentford. Slow build ups, passing it back and forth by our central defenders to either hoof it up front or play it into Luiz or Kamara won't bring us the required results. Counter attacking and early balls into the box are what Watkins thrives on. At least until the end of the season we'll have to adapt to his strengths.
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Looking at Ollie's stats - they seem consistent over the last 6 seasons about 1 goal in 3 games or below. His last season at Brentford was the exception. After that it went back to 10-14 goals a season. Maybe he is a wide player who had a freak good season as a makeshift striker?
Split the difference and say 12 a season. Get that regularly and you'll be consistently in the top 15 scorers in the league, the idea that it's not good enough is some bizarre myth based around the idea that you need a 20 a season striker, which hasn't been true for ages, it's probably 20 years or more since every team in the title race had a player like that. Even if you allow people that aren't strikers. Almost all of the top sides across Europe in that time have had ~10 goals from 3-4 players and that's exactly what we should be aiming for.
For the rest of this season, if I were Emery (well, a different Emery), I'd be challenging Watkins, Bailey, Traore and Buendia to get 5 each and Ramsey, McGinn and Doug to get 2-3. If they all meet those targets, and no one else scores, we'd average 1.5 goals a game and will be well in the mix for the top 7. The worst thing is, if that happens we will still have people moaning that if Watkins scored more we'd be better and we'll start the summer with the same arguments about needing a 'goalscorer'.
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I’m torn. Whist on the one had it seems ludicrous to let 2 of three centre forwards go, I’m also glad we aren’t just buying people for the sake of it.
I’d have kept Ings , even it wiped a chunk off he’s value in the summer. Or even loaned him with a view to buy in the summer ( assuming a recall was possible )
Maybe Uni can get a tune out of Bert. But really he’s more cover for Bailey than a striker.
Hopefully we get lucky with injuries for the next few months
For me the big question is can Emery get a tune out of Ollie Watkins. If he can return Ollie to getting the goals he was getting a couple of seasons back, we'll be fine providing he avoids the obvious injuries that would leave us relying on playing false nines.
I think we need to make sure Ollie has plenty of support around him. The goal we scored at Spurs when he seized on the error and laid it off to Emi is exactly what he needs to contribute. If you can’t score look up and find someone who can. Too often Ollie gets into great positions and tries to do too much. The balance of the season is a dress rehearsal for him for next season but a pressing need to keep getting goals from others. And it would be fucking useful if the real Philippe Coutinho showed up. That would be a game changer.
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I’m torn. Whist on the one had it seems ludicrous to let 2 of three centre forwards go, I’m also glad we aren’t just buying people for the sake of it.
I’d have kept Ings , even it wiped a chunk off he’s value in the summer. Or even loaned him with a view to buy in the summer ( assuming a recall was possible )
Maybe Uni can get a tune out of Bert. But really he’s more cover for Bailey than a striker.
Hopefully we get lucky with injuries for the next few months
For me the big question is can Emery get a tune out of Ollie Watkins. If he can return Ollie to getting the goals he was getting a couple of seasons back, we'll be fine providing he avoids the obvious injuries that would leave us relying on playing false nines.
I think we need to make sure Ollie has plenty of support around him. The goal we scored at Spurs when he seized on the error and laid it off to Emi is exactly what he needs to contribute. If you can’t score look up and find someone who can. Too often Ollie gets into great positions and tries to do too much. The balance of the season is a dress rehearsal for him for next season but a pressing need to keep getting goals from others. And it would be fucking useful if the real Philippe Coutinho showed up. That would be a game changer.
True and as Paul said, there are others that need to chip in too. The point is Emery has got to find a way to maximise Watkins as well as those around him obviously.
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Thinking of Ollie's stats - looked up Dembele's - not thta impressive apart from one season at Lyon - and not great recently....could have ended up with a panic buy
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Some Aston Villa fans were frustrated by the club's underwhelming final weeks of the January transfer window, but it wasn't for the lack of trying.
Unai Emery is determined to build a team which is capable of consistently challenging for European football. That will only happen if Villa improve their first XI, allowing the overall squad to improve with more competition for places following the arrivals of quality individuals.
There was money available for Emery to spend last month and he will be backed heavily in the summer window by owners Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens. But shelling out huge transfer fees just because Villa happen to be three points from the top six is a short-term approach which the club's ownership do not want to be tempted into.
Granted, if Villa broke their transfer record twice last month, Emery's squad would have improved, but simply put, every club is reluctant to sell their top players halfway through the season. An experienced striker was of interest after the sale of Danny Ings, but Emery doesn't want to stockpile players who he sees no use for in the long-term.
Liverpool and Chelsea are both enduring poor seasons, so far, but Villa can forget about competition for the top seven - if they get their own house in order and trust Emery's decision making, they'll get there, just like Leicester City and West Ham have done in recent years. Villa will then become the latest club to threaten the upper echelons of English football.
The difference is, Villa intend to stick at the top, not only qualify for European football one season and struggle to cope with those demands in the years to follow. Therefore, Emery will only sign the players who he knows will improve his squad, rather than plug gaps for short-term gain.
By John Townley Football writer
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/nswe-avoided-aston-villa-transfer-26126543
One thing, if this is "the official line from the club" and there is that feel to it, then they have stated they are going to heavily back Emery in the Summer so that's something to keep in mind.
Whilst you consider whether to renew your season ticket. That's their plan anyway !
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It does look like we are trying to live within our means more now.
I have no issue with us clearing out squad players, so long as it eventually leads to an uplift in quality in the first team. Disappointed we did not get a winger in, or replace Ings though.
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I’m not sure that will remain the case this year. Although long term that should be the goal. And has been stated as such.
Call me nuts or naive but I think we will have a high net spend come the end of the next window and we will break our transfer record a couple of times. No point having certain players around so those senior players out on loan will be gone. Throw in Phil, Chambers, Digne and Cash possibly. That duffer Olsen. Lots of change on the way. And I expect to see Lange either gone or accompanied by someone Emery wants in that role.
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I think the likely ones to go would be Olsen, Nakamba, Sanson and more than likely Young. Two of those are already out on loan. I'd also like to see 1 of Chambers and Konsa moved on and 1 of Coutinho, Buendia and 1 of Bailey and Traore. Which ones go would be determined by performance over the rest of the season obviously and actually whether we can find a buyer.
Then, we should be looking for a GK and RB competition, a CB that's good enough to claim a place and leave Mings and Carlos to compete to play alongside. Then another CM, ideally big quick and robust but with ability, and then a centre forward and a winger.
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For me it looks as if the main players we wanted weren’t gettable, so rather than spend over the odds on a load on stop gaps, or squad fillers the club/Unai decided that the players we have are good enough.
I’m pretty sure had the club done that they would have been criticised for bloating the squad with average players.
I think the summer will see a different outcome.
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To bring something not mentioned into the Transfer Window verdict discussion and it's what I've been able to deduce- that there was the probable understanding between Villa, Villarreal, and Emery.
So then we can infer from the transfer window that Emery was prohibited from signing any players from Villarreal as part of the conditions of his agreement to join Villa from Villarreal.
That must be the case, in my opinion, as Danjuma on a loan option would have been appropriate for the forward positions.
In addition, while we didn't sign a single player from Emery's team, other clubs, some of whom were Premier League clubs, did sign or make attempts to sign Villarreal players. Jackson and Danjuma. This could indicates that an intervening clause was required.
The next question is how long this agreement will be the case, as the next window in the summer could still see the restriction in place in not being able to sign Villarreal players.
Is this the price we have had to pay for getting Emery? but, that is something we can live with, as he is 100% the right coaching manager for pushing on and becoming consistent and being successful club.
Up The Villa!
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Why are people expecting the coming summer to be significantly better than the last few underwhelming summers?
Because a poor manager won't be signing his mates?
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Also, perhaps something else I can bring to the attention of those who are dissatisfied on the lack of striker options. This was frustrating but evidently were unable to get what we wanted.
Consider this: Emery developing our players to play the role of attacker and provide goals from midfield positions, rather than the traditional central forward role? If it weren't for Emery and his tactical acumen, this whole striker thing would be an issue for me but it's not.
There is flexibility in what we have within the squad to play in order to develop team strength in having goals distributed throughout the midfielders and existing forward.
We can also play with a false 9 with players like Bailey Buendia or Ramsey quite comfortably.
Maybe we should be more open to this potential option than concern to greatly as Emery is no fool.
Watkins and Duran will do what they can but there's several ways to line up with our players. Moreno and Cash player midfield wide and high up the pitch too are options.
It's truly intriguing.
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To bring something not mentioned into the Transfer Window verdict discussion and it's what I've been able to deduce- that there was the probable understanding between Villa, Villarreal, and Emery.
So then we can infer from the transfer window that Emery was prohibited from signing any players from Villarreal as part of the conditions of his agreement to join Villa from Villarreal.
That must be the case, in my opinion, as Danjuma on a loan option would have been appropriate for the forward positions.
In addition, while we didn't sign a single player from Emery's team, other clubs, some of whom were Premier League clubs, did sign or make attempts to sign Villarreal players. Jackson and Danjuma. This could indicates that an intervening clause was required.
The next question is how long this agreement will be the case, as the next window in the summer could still see the restriction in place in not being able to sign Villarreal players.
Is this the price we have had to pay for getting Emery? but, that is something we can live with, as he is 100% the right coaching manager for pushing on and becoming consistent and being successful club.
Up The Villa!
Possible.
Well, slightly more possible than the theory about the moon being made of cheese anyway.
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Whatever way we wrap it up, if Watkins gets injured we are fucked.
It's not like it's likely to be raining goals with him, either.
I hear you, but I don’t see anyone else putting the shift in that he does.
Hopefully Emery can get him firing and he stays fit.
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Whatever way we wrap it up, if Watkins gets injured we are fucked.
It's not like it's likely to be raining goals with him, either.
I hear you, but I don’t see anyone else putting the shift in that he does.
Hopefully Emery can get him firing and he stays fit.
Buendia and Ramsey can play as false nines to do that and get into goal spaces and score. I'd be interested to see a team of midfielders as it were across the forward positions. Man City have done this previously, and it is something I believe Emery would consider when needs must.
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Whatever way we wrap it up, if Watkins gets injured we are fucked.
It's not like it's likely to be raining goals with him, either.
I hear you, but I don’t see anyone else putting the shift in that he does.
Hopefully Emery can get him firing and he stays fit.
Buendia and Ramsey can play as false nines to do that and get into goal spaces and score. I'd be interested to see a team of midfielders as it were across the forward positions. Man City have done this previously, and it is something I believe Emery would consider when needs must.
I can think of one key reason why that might work better for Man City than it does for us.
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Guendouzi would have been interesting but not sure who would have been dropped and Dembele would have been a pretty safe bet as a striker. Not really fussed about the other links. Williams would have bit of a dream signing but pretty expensive.
Yes, Ings going seemed like it left us vulnerable but frankly he could have got injured for us and be out for ages. I think - reading between the lines - Emery is a gent - he wanted to give Ings and Archer a fair chance to keep playing.
On Archer - as much as he looks ok in Boro highlights - when a couple of managers don't trust you - maybe there is something in that....
Guendouzi would replace McGinn in the formation we played at Spurs, a sort of hybrid wide/central midfielder.
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Some Twit talk that Coutinho is off to Fenerbache? Prepare to adjust your window ratings (whether upward or downwards, only you can say!). Maybe it's horse-shit. Turkish window sill open for another week though.
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To bring something not mentioned into the Transfer Window verdict discussion and it's what I've been able to deduce- that there was the probable understanding between Villa, Villarreal, and Emery.
So then we can infer from the transfer window that Emery was prohibited from signing any players from Villarreal as part of the conditions of his agreement to join Villa from Villarreal.
That must be the case, in my opinion, as Danjuma on a loan option would have been appropriate for the forward positions.
In addition, while we didn't sign a single player from Emery's team, other clubs, some of whom were Premier League clubs, did sign or make attempts to sign Villarreal players. Jackson and Danjuma. This could indicates that an intervening clause was required.
The next question is how long this agreement will be the case, as the next window in the summer could still see the restriction in place in not being able to sign Villarreal players.
Is this the price we have had to pay for getting Emery? but, that is something we can live with, as he is 100% the right coaching manager for pushing on and becoming consistent and being successful club.
Up The Villa!
Possible.
Well, slightly more possible than the theory about the moon being made of cheese anyway.
It's sound theory as why else did we not sign Danjuma?
Plays across the front 3 Emery has made him what he is and development to a higher level player was because of Unai.
He was all set to Everton then has moved on to loan to Spurs. Outstanding for whoever has him in the Prem and it should have been us for a loan at the least.
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Why would Villareal exclude Emery from any possible transfers? They've sold Danjuma anyway, why would they be bothered if it was to us, Everton or Spurs. Absolute nonsense.
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Quite.
Not sure there's a release clause for a manager that says "pay £5m and you can have him, but oh, you can't sign any of our players".
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Why would Villareal exclude Emery from any possible transfers? They've sold Danjuma anyway, why would they be bothered if it was to us, Everton or Spurs. Absolute nonsense.
Plus, given he's on loan and they hope he rips the league so they can sell him for big money you'd think letting Emery continue to do good things with him would be preferable than giving him to Lampard to ruin.
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Why would Villareal exclude Emery from any possible transfers? They've sold Danjuma anyway, why would they be bothered if it was to us, Everton or Spurs. Absolute nonsense.
Quite.
Not sure there's a release clause for a manager that says "pay £5m and you can have him, but oh, you can't sign any of our players".
There are actually agreements that are made actually and find sometimes that occurs. Makes sense to me don't have to be so dismissive if you don't agree it happened but it can happen and does happen with managers and clubs actually whereby a period of time before you can raid the old club. Goodwill gestures and or financial clauses etc
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I suppose it might happen if he'd been approached and he then forced a move to a team in the same league but that didn't happen and we paid what they asked for.
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Why would Villareal exclude Emery from any possible transfers? They've sold Danjuma anyway, why would they be bothered if it was to us, Everton or Spurs. Absolute nonsense.
Quite.
Not sure there's a release clause for a manager that says "pay £5m and you can have him, but oh, you can't sign any of our players".
There are actually agreements that are made actually and find sometimes that occurs. Makes sense to me don't have to be so dismissive if you don't agree it happened but it can happen and does happen with managers and clubs actually whereby a period of time before you can raid the old club. Goodwill gestures and or financial clauses etc
Jesus.
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There are actually agreements that are made actually and find sometimes that occurs. Makes sense to me don't have to be so dismissive if you don't agree it happened but it can happen and does happen with managers and clubs actually whereby a period of time before you can raid the old club. Goodwill gestures and or financial clauses etc
Have you got any concrete examples of this? It makes no sense whatsoever from either a sporting or a legal perspective.
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I reckon footyvill is a 4chan kinda person
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Following football is a hobby. I'm happy to be optimistic about the future and enjoy the ride. That probably makes me a fool but there's no point being stressed out or miserable about something I have zero control of
This. If people think they are being fooled, then that's up to them.
It's borderline psychotic the level of paranoia about the club 'tricking people & feeding propaganda etc'
I'd love villa to be massively successful, if they fuck it up I'll still love them either way.
My foolish view is that Emery (and he has said this publicly) couldn't get the targets he wanted for a price that wouldn't have negatively impacted his other signings and will wait till summer. We have a world class coach who I believe will improve the players we have, and he is the reason we will be attractive in the summer. Just my opinion, but I'm pretty shocked and at the levels of hysteria on here. Let's see how it pans out before throwing ourselves to floor wailing
I find the forelock tugging and bowing down even more strange if I'm honest, but each to their own. There also doesn't seem to be any hysteria, just disappointment that we haven't strengthened. So as well as deep seated obsequiousness I'd also suspect a general lack of ability to understand what's been written.
Politely calling me stupid isn't the best way to make a sensible argument. Suspect you feel targeted, which is understandable. Also, just to clarify that you're talking about Aston Villa, a football team, and not North Korea?
Also it's ok just to have differing opinions, but I do find that the last week the very same overstated 'disappointed' posters keep making the same negative comments over and over again, and it's pretty draining.
Agree with this. Come on fellas, we still have half a season and I don’t give a fuck about other teams business. Let’s get our heads out of the oven and smash the crisp munchers!
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In fairness, Emery did say soon after taking over that he wouldn't be targeting Villareal players.
Whether that was an informal agreement with the owner as part of the club letting him go or a written condition I've no idea.
If a player has a release clause it wouldn't matter anyway. In Spain that means you deal straight with the Spanish FA/ La Liga rather than the club itself.
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I'm sure I've heard of clauses that work just as Footy describes, at least for the first window.
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I'm sure I've heard of clauses that work just as Footy describes, at least for the first window.
Same. Although no examples are immediately springing to mind.
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I'm sure I've heard of clauses that work just as Footy describes, at least for the first window.
Exactly, the poor fella gets his head bitten off at every opportunity.
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If you look at the succession of blowhards, chancers and grifters we've had as managers at various stages over the last 20 years or so and there's not many (any) who go straight back to their former club to raid players.
And that's despite the whole 'manager prefers players he's worked with before' football truism.
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My take on the window is the same as when I was a kid on Xmas morning.. Hoping to open my presents and find an electric hornby train set but finding I had a wind up clock work train set. Lovely accessories just the same but the loco's and experience just weren't what I hoped for. Still I suppose my parents would have said be a good lad and santa might bring you what you wanted next Xmas.
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There are actually agreements that are made actually and find sometimes that occurs. Makes sense to me don't have to be so dismissive if you don't agree it happened but it can happen and does happen with managers and clubs actually whereby a period of time before you can raid the old club. Goodwill gestures and or financial clauses etc
Have you got any concrete examples of this? It makes no sense whatsoever from either a sporting or a legal perspective.
Well when Guardiola signed for Man City the notion was he could not sign from Bayern. There are innumerable practices of the principal agreements among football clubs and managers respecting things, but not all brought into public domain.
Emery is a man of great respect and honour, therefore I assume that he agreed to refrain from further interfering with the Villareal football team's season because he could easily tap up and divert players to us.
Since we never signed any, I think Rangers and Gerrard had a similar deal, which prevented us from originally purchasing any of their players for a certain period of time. prior to Rory Wilson.
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If you look at the succession of blowhards, chancers and grifters we've had as managers at various stages over the last 20 years or so and there's not many (any) who go straight back to their former club to raid players.
And that's despite the whole 'manager prefers players he's worked with before' football truism.
Somewhat yes.
But likes of Sherwood ,Lambo, and Mcleish had come into the big time with us, and previous clubs didn’t have required players.
Rangers and Villareal, more than coincidence, no signings from there?
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This is one of the most pointless discussions/arguments I’ve seen on here for a while but I’ll bite, personally I’d say that in amongst the river of waffle of non stories and click bait shit that emerges from the media these days then something vaguely relevant and news worthy such as that would have come to the surface at some point in the last three months and particularly the last month.
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There are actually agreements that are made actually and find sometimes that occurs. Makes sense to me don't have to be so dismissive if you don't agree it happened but it can happen and does happen with managers and clubs actually whereby a period of time before you can raid the old club. Goodwill gestures and or financial clauses etc
Have you got any concrete examples of this? It makes no sense whatsoever from either a sporting or a legal perspective.
I’m guessing it didn’t happen when we poached Mcleish!
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To bring something not mentioned into the Transfer Window verdict discussion and it's what I've been able to deduce- that there was the probable understanding between Villa, Villarreal, and Emery.
So then we can infer from the transfer window that Emery was prohibited from signing any players from Villarreal as part of the conditions of his agreement to join Villa from Villarreal.
That must be the case, in my opinion, as Danjuma on a loan option would have been appropriate for the forward positions.
In addition, while we didn't sign a single player from Emery's team, other clubs, some of whom were Premier League clubs, did sign or make attempts to sign Villarreal players. Jackson and Danjuma. This could indicates that an intervening clause was required.
The next question is how long this agreement will be the case, as the next window in the summer could still see the restriction in place in not being able to sign Villarreal players.
Is this the price we have had to pay for getting Emery? but, that is something we can live with, as he is 100% the right coaching manager for pushing on and becoming consistent and being successful club.
Up The Villa!
You neglected to call him 'El Maestro'. :(
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Well when Guardiola signed for Man City the notion was he could not sign from Bayern. There are innumerable practices of the principal agreements among football clubs and managers respecting things, but not all brought into public domain.
Emery is a man of great respect and honour, therefore I assume that he agreed to refrain from further interfering with the Villareal football team's season because he could easily tap up and divert players to us.
Since we never signed any, I think Rangers and Gerrard had a similar deal, which prevented us from originally purchasing any of their players for a certain period of time. prior to Rory Wilson.
Please stop making up absolute bollocks.
1) Guardiola's contract had run out at Bayern. He was therefore completely free to do whatever he wanted and buy whoever he wanted.
2) Rangers didn't have any senior players worth buying, but even then we bought Rory Wilson 6 months after Gerrard started. How long do you think these imaginary clauses last exactly?
3) Take Danjuma. Even if one of these fictitious agreements were in place, having agreed to sell him to Everton in the first place, how would it make any sense whatsoever if we offered a better deal to both the club and the player for them not to sell him to us? How would accepting less money from us for a player they'd agreed to sell to somebody else benefit them exactly?
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There are actually agreements that are made actually and find sometimes that occurs. Makes sense to me don't have to be so dismissive if you don't agree it happened but it can happen and does happen with managers and clubs actually whereby a period of time before you can raid the old club. Goodwill gestures and or financial clauses etc
Have you got any concrete examples of this? It makes no sense whatsoever from either a sporting or a legal perspective.
I’m guessing it didn’t happen when we poached Mcleish!
They wouldn't sell us Stern John, the bastards.
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Not too perturbed about our seemingly lack of activity this window. Only surprise is Cam back out on loan again in light of Ings’s subsequent departure. Hey ho, trust this leaves us more pennies to spend come the summertime once Emery has another few months to further evaluate the raw material at his disposal.
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can I answer after the next window?
It was either a disaster or a pruning exercise so we grow back better in the summer.
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Not too perturbed about our seemingly lack of activity this window. Only surprise is Cam back out on loan again in light of Ings’s subsequent departure. Hey ho, trust this leaves us more pennies to spend come the summertime once Emery has another few months to further evaluate the raw material at his disposal.
Your post got me thinking. If we'd have kept either Ings or Archer, the section of meltdown on here would have been a bit less meltdowney.
Press propaganda and being fooled. Blimey, we're not Everton.
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I’m torn. Whist on the one had it seems ludicrous to let 2 of three centre forwards go, I’m also glad we aren’t just buying people for the sake of it.
I’d have kept Ings , even it wiped a chunk off he’s value in the summer. Or even loaned him with a view to buy in the summer ( assuming a recall was possible )
Maybe Uni can get a tune out of Bert. But really he’s more cover for Bailey than a striker.
Hopefully we get lucky with injuries for the next few months
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bertrand-traore/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/131996
Centre Forward - 76 apps, 39 goals, 11 assists.
He's played a fair few internationals up front as well.
He's not primarily a centre forward, I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise but he's played there enough, and with enough success, to think it's something he is comfortable doing as cover. I think he's here to be competition for both forward roles for 6 months and then it'll be reviewed in the summer, which I'm ok with.
If he can get 4-5 goals and a few assists in that time then he's done his job, and his record suggests that's a pretty reasonable expectation.
I quite like Bert.
Some brilliant goals in 20/21. Everyone remembers the Bristol one and beautiful technique with outside of his foot to score in Smethwick. Also scored a cracker v Man. United.
However he's been injured mostly for last 18 months and 9 games in Turkey isn't great considering they've played 20 games already so feels a bit like relying on Bailey from last season.
Does feel like one of those premier league players who loses his way and then gets picked up by a Villareal for knock down price and turns back into 20-25m player so you do feel if we can get him fit then he'd fit into the style Emery wants given he's pretty much an inside forward cutting inside constantly all the time.
Just wait until Emery sees the first no look volley across our backline in training though!
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"It's going to be very difficult to sign one striker to improve our team . But we are going to try.
Now or in the summer" Unai stated.
I think from this we can say a significant move to the signing in the summer would be a forward as we tried in this window but no avail.
That's a fair conclusion and happy to be patient as Emery has said.
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Regards a specialist winger if we can take either or both Mitoma of Brighton or Alan St Maxi that would give us required ball skills of a player who can go past their man.
They both play wide and are exciting and effective I wouldn't be surprised if we were keeping eyes on players with this sort of ability along with a main line striker.
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This transfer window judged in isolation will look poor but reserving judgement on it until the start of September to view it in the context of the next window will be an indicator of how good, bad or catastrophic it has been.
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The choice to have Traore as the back-up striker over Archer is a strange one.
I back Emery.
Big summer needed, again.
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Not too perturbed about our seemingly lack of activity this window. Only surprise is Cam back out on loan again in light of Ings’s subsequent departure. Hey ho, trust this leaves us more pennies to spend come the summertime once Emery has another few months to further evaluate the raw material at his disposal.
Your post got me thinking. If we'd have kept either Ings or Archer, the section of meltdown on here would have been a bit less meltdowney.
Press propaganda and being fooled. Blimey, we're not Everton.
You mean if we hadn't done the things that have pissed people off, then people would be a bit less pissed off. Brilliant insight as usual that, Clamps.
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Well, let's shout 'propaganda' and 'they're fooling us' but this is football. It made me laugh anyway if nothing else.
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The difference we'll notice in matches is that Moreno plays (potentially LM or LB and that Dhuran or Traore may get a run out instead of Ings/Bailey.
It's hardly a 1/10 window on that basis especially since most voices were saying they didn't rate Ings and weren't sure that Digne was an upgrade.
Is it really such a hard concept to grasp, that rate Ings or not, selling somebody who has contributed more goals than anybody else and not replacing him, leaving us without another recognised striker is hardly a recipe for success. The ownership/management haven't been able to put together a squad capable of achieving the top half, and I can't see them doing so for the forseeable when they consistently make bad decisions.
I'm not going to bother searching for your post history about Danny Ings, because everyone knows your opinion of him.
As for the insults, take a look at yourself, you seem unable to see, or consider, anyone's else's opinion if it's different to yours. So get down of your high horse.
I've said numerous times I'd like another one up top, that doesn't mean, because we didn't get one, that the world is going to end.
They didn't finish top half under the last buffoon, and certainly wouldn't have if your pal had stayed in charge. As it stands there's every chance we will under the new guy.
"Your pal". I'll leave it there, and try to debate with somebody more worthwhile like Footy or Flinstone.
Love you!
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It hardly screams of ambition or pushing on does it?
Selling Ings for £12 million without a ready made replacement just seems self-sabotaging to me.
Let's all hope and pray that West Ham stay up so we can pocket the clearly desperately needed extra 3 million quid.
Underwhelmed.
In terms of value to us, it's worth an awful lot more under the FFP regs.
There's his remaining contractual value as well as his wages, something like £20m a year all in. Given how close we've been, gut feeling says that it made sense to let him go to free up cash for elsewhere.
It's a bit frustrating we haven't replaced (if understandable) but I'd guess we have deals lined up for the summer.
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We're nowhere near FFP problems.
Our combined net spend over the last 4 windows is 40m.
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We're nowhere near FFP problems.
Our combined net spend over the last 4 windows is 40m.
Does that inciude salaries? Our income is below halfway, and our wages are top 7.
It suggests to.me that it leaves plenty to use.
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The sale of Grealish will immediately have alleviated any FFP concerns, £100m profit straight to profit, with the cost of his replacements spread over 3-4 years. I would think that the May 2022 accounts due at the end of this month will be half decent.
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I know a few of you are accountants, and your insights are appreciated where relevant, but one of the things I hate about modern football is that I have to know what amortisation is.
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Yes you buy a player for £100m over a five year contract. Accounting rules mean you don’t have to lump that whole cost into your P and L in one lump sum. You can write it down over the life of the contract in this case £20m per annum.
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I know. I just don't want to know.
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Oh sorry I thought you were asking. Lolz as no one says except me.
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I know. I just don't want to know.
I know what you mean. All this grown-up talk scares me.
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We're nowhere near FFP problems.
Our combined net spend over the last 4 windows is 40m.
A £100-odd million loss from 2020 drops off our 3-year FFP-related accounting period on May 31st.
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Big splurge in the summer then no excuses.
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I know. I just don't want to know.
I know what you mean. All this grown-up talk scares me.
I begrudge knowing anything financial past the penny to gram ratio of a Freddo.
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Big splurge in the summer then no excuses.
One would hope so, although according to the spin aimed at Villa reporters, the money was there for UE’s top targets this month, and it was his decision to wait for them to be more easily available.
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can I answer after the next window?
It was either a disaster or a pruning exercise so we grow back better in the summer.
I can understand the logic of the pruning argument, especially if we already have an idea of who we are looking at in the Summer and there will be a sizeable influx of players. The problem could be that a poor finish to the season and a bottom half finish would mean the rebuilding task would be more difficult.
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Big splurge in the summer then no excuses.
One would hope so, although according to the spin aimed at Villa reporters, the money was there for UE’s top targets this month, and it was his decision to wait for them to be more easily available.
Do we believe that? It would make Emery unique amongst managers, I expect.
More likely the club is pushing a 'narrative' that suits the club. Which is perfectly normal of course.
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The owner didn’t go out of his way to fire Gerrard, appoint a high profile manager (it could have been Pochettino by all accounts), and then in the first transfer window a couple of months in stiff him on what he wanted to do. He would have negotiated everything including transfer autonomy and spending ability heading into the job. It’s been said he likes a small squad so he got rid of mostly players who don’t play and clearly wanted a couple that collectively they didn’t pull the trigger on. We would all have liked a big name signing but let’s not go down the conspiracy theory path as to why it never happened in this window.
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Fair enough. The money was there but Emery declined for the reasons you suggest. It's unusual and, as they say in politics, a courageous approach.
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Big splurge in the summer then no excuses.
One would hope so, although according to the spin aimed at Villa reporters, the money was there for UE’s top targets this month, and it was his decision to wait for them to be more easily available.
Do we believe that? It would make Emery unique amongst managers, I expect.
More likely the club is pushing a 'narrative' that suits the club. Which is perfectly normal of course.
What I mean is the fees would have been paid if the players would have agreed to come. For instance, the release clause was met for Williams but he didn’t want to leave. I think that Emery then decided not to move on to other targets, but to go back in the summer. He did speak about wanting a ‘very specific’ type of winger. Also, we were heavily linked with Delofeu, who played 13 minutes in his comeback from injury before getting injured again. So perhaps those were his first two choices and he really didn’t want to go down as far as third choice, assuming there were as many as three on a ‘very specific’ list.
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Gotcha, Percy. That makes sense.
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For instance, the release clause was met for Williams but he didn’t want to leave.
Why has this become an accepted truth? Unless I missed something from someone who might know, there was a Mail Online report saying we "were prepared" to sign him, which was then repeated on the usual clickbaity sites.
I'm not saying it's not true, but it seems to have been given much less scrutiny than reports like that are normally given.
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For instance, the release clause was met for Williams but he didn’t want to leave.
Why has this become an accepted truth? Unless I missed something from someone who might know, there was a Mail Online report saying we "were prepared" to sign him, which was then repeated on the usual clickbaity sites.
I'm not saying it's not true, but it seems to have been given much less scrutiny than reports like that are normally given.
But no one really knows exactly what is true, its all presumption, until a respected source (e.g. John Percy) says something is actually happening. Trying to work out the truth of things here is a rabbit hole with madness at the bottom.
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It feels like a weird thing to make up and there's been no denials anywhere in over a week.
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It feels like a weird thing to make up and there's been no denials anywhere in over a week.
Why would there be any "denials"?
If a club commented on every random bit of transfer gossip there wouldn't be much time for anything else.
There haven't been denials about anyone we were linked to last month, but that doesn't mean we actually were trying to sign all fifty of them.
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Verdict - Prudent
7 out of 10
:)
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This window has been OK however if Unai manages to ensure we finish in the top half and we DO NOT go big in the summer transfer window in order to have a real chance of qualifying for Europe next season than I am afraid we are where we have always been for the last 40 years. Missed opportunities.
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If we are waiting for those signings in the summer (and don’t forget some of the deadweight we have ‘cleared’ first is coming back then, ie Sanson and Nakamba so it’s not like we’ve totally cleaned the house) then we have a better chance the higher up the table we finish.
My concern is that by getting shot of all the strikers bar one (who, for all his running, is no Gerd Muller in front of goal), by not even adding a couple more faces as loans, we are going to blow the best chance in ages to be even near the European places - something which would help us attract those players we are holding out for, and which makes it less likely we end up talking about convincing our best players not to leave because 12th place is hardly indicative of a club going places.
Not if they then get Champions League Newcastle doing what we are trying to do in one year making eyes at them.
I just don’t get it when I see people - sometimes the same people who get so riled about giving up in the cups - on here just wiping off the remaining half a season.
Anyway, fingers crossed but it looks a bit half arsed to me and smells of our usual failing of never being able to make that decisive next step.
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It feels like a weird thing to make up and there's been no denials anywhere in over a week.
Why would there be any "denials"?
If a club commented on every random bit of transfer gossip there wouldn't be much time for anything else.
There haven't been denials about anyone we were linked to last month, but that doesn't mean we actually were trying to sign all fifty of them.
Denials is probably the wrong word but I can't imagine a story like that getting through with nothing to contradict it after a couple of weeks.
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Surely precisely that happens hundreds of times this time of year? It’s media tittle tattle.
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Surely precisely that happens hundreds of times this time of year? It’s media tittle tattle.
Yep it's like Footy with his idea that a manager not buying a player from a previous club is proof that a clause exists that they're not allowed to. Something not happening isn't proof of anything, and if you spent your time denying such nonsense you'd be at it all day.
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They have never denied FV's assertions though so they must be true.
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It feels like a weird thing to make up and there's been no denials anywhere in over a week.
Why would there be any "denials"?
If a club commented on every random bit of transfer gossip there wouldn't be much time for anything else.
There haven't been denials about anyone we were linked to last month, but that doesn't mean we actually were trying to sign all fifty of them.
Denials is probably the wrong word but I can't imagine a story like that getting through with nothing to contradict it after a couple of weeks.
Nobody has contradicted the reports about us buying Joao Felix, Thuram, Luis Henrique, Jonathan David or any of the other players that were talked about in this thread either.
It doesn't mean we tried to buy any of them.
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Surely precisely that happens hundreds of times this time of year? It’s media tittle tattle.
Had a bid accepted and the player has chosen to stay is a bid different from the normal media bullshit, that's my point really.
Either way everyone is free to believe what they want over this but, for me enough people I'd trust have repeated this that I think it's true. Interesting most people (not necessarily on here) who are suggesting it's bullshit are the same ones who are also claiming that NSWE are cutting funding and that they've given up.
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It feels like a weird thing to make up and there's been no denials anywhere in over a week.
Why would there be any "denials"?
If a club commented on every random bit of transfer gossip there wouldn't be much time for anything else.
There haven't been denials about anyone we were linked to last month, but that doesn't mean we actually were trying to sign all fifty of them.
Denials is probably the wrong word but I can't imagine a story like that getting through with nothing to contradict it after a couple of weeks.
Nobody has contradicted the reports about us buying Joao Felix, Thuram, Luis Henrique, Jonathan David or any of the other players that were talked about in this thread either.
It doesn't mean we tried to buy any of them.
Let me try this again, people like John Percy and Fabrizio Romano have made their reputations on being right about stuff like this. If there was nothing to the idea that we had a bid accepted but the player said no people like that would report it because it would reinforce the idea that they're the people worth listening to and putting the boot in on the sources that reported it.
I freely admit I might be wrong but for this specific story I think it's far more likely to be real than not. Whereas for all the people you've listed the stories fit more neatly into general speculation.
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Surely precisely that happens hundreds of times this time of year? It’s media tittle tattle.
Had a bid accepted and the player has chosen to stay is a bid different from the normal media bullshit, that's my point really.
Either way everyone is free to believe what they want over this but, for me enough people I'd trust have repeated this that I think it's true. Interesting most people (not necessarily on here) who are suggesting it's bullshit are the same ones who are also claiming that NSWE are cutting funding and that they've given up.
It's not so much whether it is true or not that I am getting at, more that the fact the club haven't denied it doesn't really mean anything, as, well, they wouldn't, because if they did, they'd spend half their working week issuing denials, there's so much of this chatter around.
Maybe Emery will be asked at his Leicester press conference.
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Surely precisely that happens hundreds of times this time of year? It’s media tittle tattle.
Had a bid accepted and the player has chosen to stay is a bid different from the normal media bullshit, that's my point really.
Either way everyone is free to believe what they want over this but, for me enough people I'd trust have repeated this that I think it's true. Interesting most people (not necessarily on here) who are suggesting it's bullshit are the same ones who are also claiming that NSWE are cutting funding and that they've given up.
It's not so much whether it is true or not that I am getting at, more that the fact the club haven't denied it doesn't really mean anything, as, well, they wouldn't, because if they did, they'd spend half their working week issuing denials, there's so much of this chatter around.
Maybe Emery will be asked at his Leicester press conference.
As I said, denail was the wrong word because that made it look like I was talking about a statement from the club(s) or player, I mean that some of the trasnfer experts in the press would've reported it as bullshit if they had any hint that it hadn't happened. Even those people don't comment on every story but Villa breaking our transfer record to sign one of the best young players in Spain is big enough for them to comment on.
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I think you have hit denail on the head.
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The doubters have a point and argue it very well. I’m not one for speculation usually, I just thought the stories surrounding Williams (release clause of 45 million euros offered), Delofeu (£20m bid made) and Guendouzi (‘stupendous offer’) rang true for me at the time. Maybe the fact that I wanted to believe made them that little bit more convincing to me, and I also think the sources were a bit more reliable than the usual FI shite.
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As I said, denail was the wrong word because that made it look like I was talking about a statement from the club(s) or player, I mean that some of the trasnfer experts in the press would've reported it as bullshit if they had any hint that it hadn't happened. Even those people don't comment on every story but Villa breaking our transfer record to sign one of the best young players in Spain is big enough for them to comment on.
It definitely would be big enough for them to comment on. Which makes you wonder, if it happened and they knew that it happened, why they didn't?
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As I said, denail was the wrong word because that made it look like I was talking about a statement from the club(s) or player, I mean that some of the trasnfer experts in the press would've reported it as bullshit if they had any hint that it hadn't happened. Even those people don't comment on every story but Villa breaking our transfer record to sign one of the best young players in Spain is big enough for them to comment on.
It definitely would be big enough for them to comment on. Which makes you wonder, if it happened and they knew that it happened, why they didn't?
Romano did, he said a few days ago that it's more likely to happen in the summer, that was reported pretty widely at the time.
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Let me try this again, people like John Percy and Fabrizio Romano have made their reputations on being right about stuff like this. If there was nothing to the idea that we had a bid accepted but the player said no people like that would report it because it would reinforce the idea that they're the people worth listening to and putting the boot in on the sources that reported it.
I freely admit I might be wrong but for this specific story I think it's far more likely to be real than not. Whereas for all the people you've listed the stories fit more neatly into general speculation.
I can't see that either of them have mentioned him at all, where did you see that they did?
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I think you have hit denail on the head.
I wood have to agree
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No need to hammer it home.
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As I said, denail was the wrong word because that made it look like I was talking about a statement from the club(s) or player, I mean that some of the trasnfer experts in the press would've reported it as bullshit if they had any hint that it hadn't happened. Even those people don't comment on every story but Villa breaking our transfer record to sign one of the best young players in Spain is big enough for them to comment on.
It definitely would be big enough for them to comment on. Which makes you wonder, if it happened and they knew that it happened, why they didn't?
Romano did, he said a few days ago that it's more likely to happen in the summer, that was reported pretty widely at the time.
He said "it's true they have an interest".
That's not the same as the claim that we offered Bilbao enough money to meet his buy-out clause. Unless there are other quotes to the above?
I think it was also in the context of a live video Q&A, and (while I appreciate I'm the one speculating now) it strikes me as the sort of answer you might give if you'd never heard the words Aston Villa and Nico Williams in the same sentence before but you need to hedge your bets in case it turns out that there is something in it.
If he knew that we'd made an acceptable bid, that would have been his opportunity to say "yes, Villa offered enough money to buy him but he didn't want to join them". But he decided not to, for some reason.
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Let me try this again, people like John Percy and Fabrizio Romano have made their reputations on being right about stuff like this. If there was nothing to the idea that we had a bid accepted but the player said no people like that would report it because it would reinforce the idea that they're the people worth listening to and putting the boot in on the sources that reported it.
I freely admit I might be wrong but for this specific story I think it's far more likely to be real than not. Whereas for all the people you've listed the stories fit more neatly into general speculation.
I can't see that either of them have mentioned him at all, where did you see that they did?
I haven't seen anything from Percy (I just picked him as another option). Romano commented on it in a livestream (on Monday I think). There's plenty of stories in the normal rumour papers running the exact quote, e.g. https://www.givemesport.com/88110952-aston-villa-fabrizio-romano-nico-williams-athletic-bilbao-transfer-news-villa-park
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Aren't Givemesport just another load of Football Insider type bullshit merchants? Romano usually puts absolutely everything he says on his Twitter, and hasn't mentioned Williams once. Nor has Percy, so I honestly don't think there was anything remotely concrete whatsoever.
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Aren't Givemesport just another load of Football Insider type bullshit merchants? Romano usually puts absolutely everything he says on his Twitter, and hasn't mentioned Williams once. Nor has Percy, so I honestly don't think there was anything remotely concrete whatsoever.
quoted him though, even the bullshit merchants don't fake quotes.
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“The expectation of those close to Nico Williams is for the player to leave, possibly in the summer. So at the moment, the situation is still complicated.”
Thats the quote in that article.
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“The expectation of those close to Nico Williams is for the player to leave, possibly in the summer. So at the moment, the situation is still complicated.”
Thats the quote in that article.
I honestly don't care enough to carry on with this, I made a bit of a throwaway comment and have had 3 of you grilling me over it for nearly 4 hours. I think if it was completely made up that we were so close to a very big signing we'd know by now, you don't have to agree but we're just gonig in circles now.
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“The expectation of those close to Nico Williams is for the player to leave, possibly in the summer. So at the moment, the situation is still complicated.”
Thats the quote in that article.
Elsewhere there is the quote “I think (Villa) will try for many players; for Nico Williams, it’s true that they have an interest, but from what I’m told, Nico Williams is not leaving now. So he’s not leaving in January unless something crazy happens in the final days.”
Which is still a million miles away from us having a bid accepted for him.
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“The expectation of those close to Nico Williams is for the player to leave, possibly in the summer. So at the moment, the situation is still complicated.”
Thats the quote in that article.
I honestly don't care enough to carry on with this, I made a bit of a throwaway comment and have had 3 of you grilling me over it for nearly 4 hours. I think if it was completely made up that we were so close to a very big signing we'd know by now, you don't have to agree but we're just gonig in circles now.
Well you've implied that people you trust like Percy and Romano have mentioned it, when in fact neither of them have, and the only mention is a supposed quote from a bullshit site that doesn't even mention Villa.
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“The expectation of those close to Nico Williams is for the player to leave, possibly in the summer. So at the moment, the situation is still complicated.”
Thats the quote in that article.
I honestly don't care enough to carry on with this, I made a bit of a throwaway comment and have had 3 of you grilling me over it for nearly 4 hours. I think if it was completely made up that we were so close to a very big signing we'd know by now, you don't have to agree but we're just gonig in circles now.
Well you've implied that people you trust like Percy and Romano have mentioned it, when in fact neither of them have, and the only mention is a supposed quote from a bullshit site that doesn't even mention Villa.
To be fair, Paul actually suggests that it's the very fact that they haven't mentioned it that means the story is obviously true.
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“The expectation of those close to Nico Williams is for the player to leave, possibly in the summer. So at the moment, the situation is still complicated.”
Thats the quote in that article.
I honestly don't care enough to carry on with this, I made a bit of a throwaway comment and have had 3 of you grilling me over it for nearly 4 hours. I think if it was completely made up that we were so close to a very big signing we'd know by now, you don't have to agree but we're just gonig in circles now.
Well you've implied that people you trust like Percy and Romano have mentioned it, when in fact neither of them have, and the only mention is a supposed quote from a bullshit site that doesn't even mention Villa.
To be fair, Paul actually suggests that it's the very fact that they haven't mentioned it that means the story is obviously true.
No I don't, I said that I believe it's true and that you lot can believe whatever you like, that's really not the same as me saying it's obviously true.
I think if Romano is asked about it and quoted as having spoken to a source it's reasonable to expect that he'd say "there's been no contact between Villa and Williams" if that were the case. That's it, you lot have made this a much bigger deal than I ever intended.
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“The expectation of those close to Nico Williams is for the player to leave, possibly in the summer. So at the moment, the situation is still complicated.”
Thats the quote in that article.
I honestly don't care enough to carry on with this, I made a bit of a throwaway comment and have had 3 of you grilling me over it for nearly 4 hours. I think if it was completely made up that we were so close to a very big signing we'd know by now, you don't have to agree but we're just gonig in circles now.
Well you've implied that people you trust like Percy and Romano have mentioned it, when in fact neither of them have, and the only mention is a supposed quote from a bullshit site that doesn't even mention Villa.
Again I mentioned Percy as someone who, if he heard it was bullshit, would've posted about it.
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I freely admit I might be wrong
Might have been better to leave it at that point then.
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Tough crowd, you can't as much as fart in the wrong direction on this thread!
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I freely admit I might be wrong
Might have been better to leave it at that point then.
I'd rather be wrong about something this utterly inconsequential than about things that actually matter, like thinking Sunak would make a good prime minister.
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Tough crowd, you can't as much as fart in the wrong direction on this thread!
There's certainly nothing har-farted about some of the posts at the moment that's for sure :-)
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I freely admit I might be wrong
Might have been better to leave it at that point then.
I'd rather be wrong about something this utterly inconsequential than about things that actually matter, like thinking Sunak would make a good prime minister.
Brilliant! Well to respond in kind, my dad is bigger than your dad, so ner!!!!!11111
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I freely admit I might be wrong
Might have been better to leave it at that point then.
I'd rather be wrong about something this utterly inconsequential than about things that actually matter, like thinking Sunak would make a good prime minister.
Brilliant! Well to respond in kind, my dad is bigger than your dad, so ner!!!!!11111
At last you've finally understood a point I made.
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I understood it Paul, I just didn't agree with it.
And neither did anybody else.
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I understood it Paul, I just didn't agree with it.
And neither did anybody else.
Can you prove that nobody else agreed, I'll need direct quotes from every single poster or you're wrong.
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Oh, and Dave had to correct you at one point so you were definitely wrong about part of it, you should probably stop there.
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Oh, and Dave had to correct you at one point so you were definitely wrong about part of it, you should probably stop there.
You know when you say (seemingly on a daily basis) that you're going to leave it there? Any chance you might actually do it one day?
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Think we need the Leicester game, and quickly
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Oh, and Dave had to correct you at one point so you were definitely wrong about part of it, you should probably stop there.
You know when you say (seemingly on a daily basis) that you're going to leave it there? Any chance you might actually do it one day?
Well you being wrong (about me saying on a daily basis, about everyone agreeing with you and about you understanding my posts) is a different topic so seems like a weird place to bring it up but yes, god forbid I say I say one thing and do another, you'll end up wanting to vote for me if I carry on.
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Think we need the Leicester game, and quickly
Two weeks off and the transfer window closing, not a healthy situation
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I understood it Paul, I just didn't agree with it.
And neither did anybody else.
Can you prove that nobody else agreed, I'll need direct quotes from every single poster or you're wrong.
In fairness Paul, you've argued for the last 4-5 hours about something that you admit finding 'inconsequential'. What's the point then?
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Popcorn moment. Here comes Clampy! Never one to hold back 🤪😂
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Will you two please either pack it in or get a room? Thank you.
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I understood it Paul, I just didn't agree with it.
And neither did anybody else.
Can you prove that nobody else agreed, I'll need direct quotes from every single poster or you're wrong.
In fairness Paul, you've argued for the last 4-5 hours about something that you admit finding 'inconsequential'. What's the point then?
Strange post to have quoted to make that point (not a criticism I just think your point relates to many other posts better than this one).
To answer the question, I'm bored, right now I have loads of work waiting for budget approval and nothing much to start on until I get it. It's been a couple of weeks now so all the housekeeping stuff ran out a few days back.
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I freely admit I might be wrong
Might have been better to leave it at that point then.
Ha, that could be said for all us regarding most things Villa
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Can we crowd fund it?
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I freely admit I might be wrong
Might have been better to leave it at that point then.
Ha, that could be said for all us regarding most things Villa
The difference is Paul e has admitted he might be wrong which is a pretty rare event on here.
To clarify, not by Paul e as such, just people admitting they are wrong even when they quite obviously are.
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I understood it Paul, I just didn't agree with it.
And neither did anybody else.
Can you prove that nobody else agreed, I'll need direct quotes from every single poster or you're wrong.
In fairness Paul, you've argued for the last 4-5 hours about something that you admit finding 'inconsequential'. What's the point then?
Strange post to have quoted to make that point (not a criticism I just think your point relates to many other posts better than this one).
To answer the question, I'm bored, right now I have loads of work waiting for budget approval
If I approve it for you will you go and get on with it ;-)
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I understood it Paul, I just didn't agree with it.
And neither did anybody else.
Can you prove that nobody else agreed, I'll need direct quotes from every single poster or you're wrong.
In fairness Paul, you've argued for the last 4-5 hours about something that you admit finding 'inconsequential'. What's the point then?
Strange post to have quoted to make that point (not a criticism I just think your point relates to many other posts better than this one).
To answer the question, I'm bored, right now I have loads of work waiting for budget approval
If I approve it for you will you go and get on with it ;-)
Ha ha ha, that made me do a big laugh.
Sorry, Paul, not personal.
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I understood it Paul, I just didn't agree with it.
And neither did anybody else.
Can you prove that nobody else agreed, I'll need direct quotes from every single poster or you're wrong.
In fairness Paul, you've argued for the last 4-5 hours about something that you admit finding 'inconsequential'. What's the point then?
Strange post to have quoted to make that point (not a criticism I just think your point relates to many other posts better than this one).
To answer the question, I'm bored, right now I have loads of work waiting for budget approval
If I approve it for you will you go and get on with it ;-)
I fucking wish someone would.
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I freely admit I might be wrong
Might have been better to leave it at that point then.
Ha, that could be said for all us regarding most things Villa
The difference is Paul e has admitted he might be wrong which is a pretty rare event on here.
To clarify, not by Paul e as such, just people admitting they are wrong even when they quite obviously are.
When it's an opinion I'm always willing to admit I might be wrong, but that doesn't mean I won't try to back myself or get annoyed if people dismiss it without a thought.
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I was wrong about the Rugby thing the other day, although I wear that particular badge of ignorance with immense pride.
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I was wrong about the Rugby thing the other day, although I wear that particular badge of ignorance with immense pride.
Said it once, I'll say it again, Rugby is absolutely shit.
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I was wrong about the Rugby thing the other day, although I wear that particular badge of ignorance with immense pride.
I found that funny more than anything. I've played with props that were close to that sort of height, but they were about the same around the waist as well, at his size and shape Weghorst would come off the pitch looking like a pretzel.
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If we are waiting for those signings in the summer (and don’t forget some of the deadweight we have ‘cleared’ first is coming back then, ie Sanson and Nakamba so it’s not like we’ve totally cleaned the house) then we have a better chance the higher up the table we finish.
My concern is that by getting shot of all the strikers bar one (who, for all his running, is no Gerd Muller in front of goal), by not even adding a couple more faces as loans, we are going to blow the best chance in ages to be even near the European places - something which would help us attract those players we are holding out for, and which makes it less likely we end up talking about convincing our best players not to leave because 12th place is hardly indicative of a club going places.
Not if they then get Champions League Newcastle doing what we are trying to do in one year making eyes at them.
I just don’t get it when I see people - sometimes the same people who get so riled about giving up in the cups - on here just wiping off the remaining half a season.
Anyway, fingers crossed but it looks a bit half arsed to me and smells of our usual failing of never being able to make that decisive next step.
I completely agree with this. Well put Paulie.
With a risk of getting to Paul levels of conjecture ( ;)), if for instance we could have got Guendouzi and, say, Henrique for an extra £15m or so in total, perhaps even Dembele loan for c£3m (I know, I know Lee, but he does score) then I think it may well have been prudent to do so. It would have been insurance against a potential form crash (injury led or not) and possibly been enough to have a proper crack at a European place. Obviously the potential higher league placing reward would have part funded this, but for me the really key thing for me is the knock on effect on potential recruitment and player retention.
I know for every Newcastle there's and Everton who haven't spent well, but really they are the perfect case study. They got a manager they truly trusted and paid well over the odds in that first window to get players many laughed at. But they paid the premium and their positive finish gave them the launching pad to do the business they did in the summer. The changes to their squad have been relatively modest, but they paid what they had to to get the few key pieces in to place. Their reward is a cup final and prob a champs league place, all within 12-18 months.
IF we really trust Emery as much as people say, then the risk of 'panick buying flops' would be minimal. For me, if Guendouzi is a key piece in the jigsaw, we should have done it now even if we had to pay the premium. If may have put us in a far stronger starting point in the summer and also (as Risso has previously pointed out) meaning much less surgery and players to bed in in that window.
If we're not careful in the autumn it will be 'well what do you expect with 5 new players to settle in, but NEXT season is when we'll really see the benefit' Just as Kamara and Martinez get bored....
Jam tomorrow shouldn't always be the answer.
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I know for every Newcastle there's and Everton who haven't spent well, but really they are the perfect case study. They got a manager they truly trusted and paid well over the odds in that first window to get players many laughed at. But they paid the premium and their positive finish gave them the launching pad to do the business they did in the summer. The changes to their squad have been relatively modest, but they paid what they had to to get the few key pieces in to place. Their reward is a cup final and prob a champs league place, all within 12-18 months.
To add to that - they also show that getting in short-term stop-gaps isn't always a terrible thing. Newcastle spent £25m on Chris Wood which pretty much sent Burnley down.
Twelve months later they're shipping him on and in the summer will get two-thirds of their money back from Forest. I bet there isn't a Newcastle fan who considers that twelve month stop-gap to have been a waste of money or an opportunity missed.
If we'd chucked £15m at one of the attackers that Southampton or Bournemouth did (or a different one altogether), we get four or five goals from them and it turns out we're upgrading them again in a season or two, is it the end of the world?
Or they might turn out to be amazing.
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If we are waiting for those signings in the summer (and don’t forget some of the deadweight we have ‘cleared’ first is coming back then, ie Sanson and Nakamba so it’s not like we’ve totally cleaned the house) then we have a better chance the higher up the table we finish.
My concern is that by getting shot of all the strikers bar one (who, for all his running, is no Gerd Muller in front of goal), by not even adding a couple more faces as loans, we are going to blow the best chance in ages to be even near the European places - something which would help us attract those players we are holding out for, and which makes it less likely we end up talking about convincing our best players not to leave because 12th place is hardly indicative of a club going places.
Not if they then get Champions League Newcastle doing what we are trying to do in one year making eyes at them.
I just don’t get it when I see people - sometimes the same people who get so riled about giving up in the cups - on here just wiping off the remaining half a season.
Anyway, fingers crossed but it looks a bit half arsed to me and smells of our usual failing of never being able to make that decisive next step.
I completely agree with this. Well put Paulie.
With a risk of getting to Paul levels of conjecture ( ;) ), if for instance we could have got Guendouzi and, say, Henrique for an extra £15m or so in total, perhaps even Dembele loan for c£3m (I know, I know Lee, but he does score) then I think it may well have been prudent to do so. It would have been insurance against a potential form crash (injury led or not) and possibly been enough to have a proper crack at a European place. Obviously the potential higher league placing reward would have part funded this, but for me the really key thing for me is the knock on effect on potential recruitment and player retention.
I know for every Newcastle there's and Everton who haven't spent well, but really they are the perfect case study. They got a manager they truly trusted and paid well over the odds in that first window to get players many laughed at. But they paid the premium and their positive finish gave them the launching pad to do the business they did in the summer. The changes to their squad have been relatively modest, but they paid what they had to to get the few key pieces in to place. Their reward is a cup final and prob a champs league place, all within 12-18 months.
IF we really trust Emery as much as people say, then the risk of 'panick buying flops' would be minimal. For me, if Guendouzi is a key piece in the jigsaw, we should have done it now even if we had to pay the premium. If may have put us in a far stronger starting point in the summer and also (as Risso has previously pointed out) meaning much less surgery and players to bed in in that window.
If we're not careful in the autumn it will be 'well what do you expect with 5 new players to settle in, but NEXT season is when we'll really see the benefit' Just as Kamara and Martinez get bored....
Jam tomorrow shouldn't always be the answer.
Firstly - Angry face thingy.
Secondly the form crash thing is a step to far in conjecture for me. If Watkins gets injured at the weekend and our form collapses for 2 months whilst Duran shows the world he's nowhere near ready then yes the drop in league position can be attributed to the transfer window. Any other reason (ignoring the same problem in goal, on the wing or in central midfield as the other positions where people have expressed their concerns regarding depth) and there's just too many variables to consider to make that conclusion.
We just don't know if adding the wrong player to the mix would've made things better or worse. By wrong player I don't mean a punt on someone a bit shit like Baston or Holt but rather just someone Emery was unsure about. The extra depth could easily be offset by them just not fitting in. From the outside I think it feels a lot easier to say just sign someone else from the list but without knowing why they weren't our first/second/third choice.
I do agree on the guendouzi point though, if he's who we really wanted then I'd have liked us to push a little harder to complete that one. Of course as Arsenal showed with Dougie and Caicedo that still doesn't guarantee anything, no matter how much you want someone there doesn't need to be an upper limit on what you think they're worth.
I dunno why but this window just doesn't feel like a 'jam tomorrow' one, I look at how we've played since Emery arrived (even in the poorer league performances I don't think anyone has overrun us) and it feels different to me. I know other people aren't in the same place but going for a proper manager has convinced me that we do still have the ambition to be more than midtable fodder.
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I know for every Newcastle there's and Everton who haven't spent well, but really they are the perfect case study. They got a manager they truly trusted and paid well over the odds in that first window to get players many laughed at. But they paid the premium and their positive finish gave them the launching pad to do the business they did in the summer. The changes to their squad have been relatively modest, but they paid what they had to to get the few key pieces in to place. Their reward is a cup final and prob a champs league place, all within 12-18 months.
To add to that - they also show that getting in short-term stop-gaps isn't always a terrible thing. Newcastle spent £25m on Chris Wood which pretty much sent Burnley down.
Twelve months later they're shipping him on and in the summer will get two-thirds of their money back from Forest. I bet there isn't a Newcastle fan who considers that twelve month stop-gap to have been a waste of money or an opportunity missed.
If we'd chucked £15m at one of the attackers that Southampton or Bournemouth did (or a different one altogether), we get four or five goals from them and it turns out we're upgrading them again in a season or two, is it the end of the world?
Or they might turn out to be amazing.
Danny Ings?
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I was talking mainly about injuries - most obviously Watkins, but an injury to Kamara or Luiz would also really unsettle and Guendozi would have pretty seemlessly filled that gap. But I also think we may have a dip in form anyway. We've ridden our luck in a few games which could really have gone either way if we're honest and whilst we're certainly better coached now, we still have weaknesses. With Man City and Arsenal coming up, we may see a dip. I'd have preferred the insurance of some signings to give Emery options IF that happens.
With that said, I also have a sneaking feeling that Duran may hit the ground running, so I may be worrying about nothing. But still, I wished we'd bagged one or two more to make the summer business easier.
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Secondly the form crash thing is a step to far in conjecture for me. If Watkins gets injured at the weekend and our form collapses for 2 months whilst Duran shows the world he's nowhere near ready then yes the drop in league position can be attributed to the transfer window.
I'd argue it doesn't need Watkins to get injured for that judgement to be made, just any scenario where we haven't scored enough goals.
Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
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I know for every Newcastle there's and Everton who haven't spent well, but really they are the perfect case study. They got a manager they truly trusted and paid well over the odds in that first window to get players many laughed at. But they paid the premium and their positive finish gave them the launching pad to do the business they did in the summer. The changes to their squad have been relatively modest, but they paid what they had to to get the few key pieces in to place. Their reward is a cup final and prob a champs league place, all within 12-18 months.
To add to that - they also show that getting in short-term stop-gaps isn't always a terrible thing. Newcastle spent £25m on Chris Wood which pretty much sent Burnley down.
Twelve months later they're shipping him on and in the summer will get two-thirds of their money back from Forest. I bet there isn't a Newcastle fan who considers that twelve month stop-gap to have been a waste of money or an opportunity missed.
If we'd chucked £15m at one of the attackers that Southampton or Bournemouth did (or a different one altogether), we get four or five goals from them and it turns out we're upgrading them again in a season or two, is it the end of the world?
Or they might turn out to be amazing.
Yes exactly that - you’re telling me that there wasn’t a striker we could have got in that wouldn’t have added value without spending ludicrous amounts? No chance. Instead we’re left with hardly any options. There’s such a thing as striking whilst the iron is hot and who knows we may get lucky, but we’ve created unnecessary risk through our own inaction.
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I’m glad I went to bed.
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And what pisses me off is when people say stuff like "so you wish we'd gone out and got a Baston or Samatta" No I don't. They were fucking shite. We pay people a load of money to find players who aren't shit. I wish they'd done their job and found one.
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Secondly the form crash thing is a step to far in conjecture for me. If Watkins gets injured at the weekend and our form collapses for 2 months whilst Duran shows the world he's nowhere near ready then yes the drop in league position can be attributed to the transfer window.
I'd argue it doesn't need Watkins to get injured for that judgement to be made, just any scenario where we haven't scored enough goals.
Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
This is the crux of it. We got rid of a decent goalscoring option off the bench when there didn't seem to be any need to do so. To me that sends the message that we're not placing too much importance on results for the rest of the season.
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I’m glad I went to bed.
They had a massive timer in the background counting down to the second, and then crossed live to fucking Big Ben as the window shut. I was round my mate's and he had it on in the background, the banner would have 'breaking news' like "Dave Titwank completes loan move from Stockport to Grays Athletic"
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Secondly the form crash thing is a step to far in conjecture for me. If Watkins gets injured at the weekend and our form collapses for 2 months whilst Duran shows the world he's nowhere near ready then yes the drop in league position can be attributed to the transfer window.
I'd argue it doesn't need Watkins to get injured for that judgement to be made, just any scenario where we haven't scored enough goals.
Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
I think that's the point.
Paul, you said this a while ago, (and I'm not dragging it up to be a twat, honest):
"to get where we want to be we need 30-40 goals from Watkins, Ings, Bailey, Archer, Duran and any new winger we sign.
To date, these are the scores on the doors:
Watkins - 4
Ings - 6
Bailey - 4
Archer - 0
Duran - 0
Traore - 0
Total - 14
Obviously Ings and Archer won't be contributing to the total, so to hit your targets Paul (which I agree are probably there or thereabouts) we need 16 to 26 goals from Watkins, Bailey, Duran and Traore.
It's quite to hard make a case for them getting the bottom limit to be honest, eg:
Watkins - 8
Bailey - 4
Duran - 2
Traore - 2
That would be a decent return for all involved, but we've no idea when Traore is going to be fit, and he's obviously going to be vying with Bailey for one place. Duran we've literally no idea about. To get to the upper limit of 26 you'd need something more like this:
Watkins - 12
Bailey - 8
Duran - 2
Traore - 4
Which would need Watkins and Bailey to both stay fit all season and have the sort of scoring runs that both seem entirely incapable of. If instead you could add another 6 say from Danny Ings, which I think would have been entirely possible, it makes both scenarios a bit more achievable.
(Obviously all of this ignores the fact that we might win every match 1-0 with a goal from Buendia in every game, but it's just designed to show how selling Ings has weakened our options)
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Did we miss out on Dave Titwank?
FFS Emery.
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Did we miss out on Dave Titwank?
FFS Emery.
He wouldn't come.
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I’m glad I went to bed.
They had a massive timer in the background counting down to the second, and then crossed live to fucking Big Ben as the window shut. I was round my mate's and he had it on in the background, the banner would have 'breaking news' like "Dave Titwank completes loan move from Stockport to Grays Athletic"
Haha, I mean this morning, when I was in this row.
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Did we miss out on Dave Titwank?
FFS Emery.
He wouldn't come.
Shame. Always gets his shot off.
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Did we miss out on Dave Titwank?
FFS Emery.
He wouldn't come.
Wouldn't or couldn't ?
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Percy, that post was about the entire season. About 25-30 as a team for the rest of this season would be a good return for me (around 1.5 per game).
4 players get 4-5 each covers that which why I said somewhere (Berts thread maybe) that would be my challenge to Watkins, Bailey, Bert, Coutinho and Buendia).
All of them are capable of it and that takes pressure away from people like JJ and Duran.
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Did we miss out on Dave Titwank?
FFS Emery.
He wouldn't come.
Wouldn't or couldn't ?
Happens to everyone. No big deal. Try again another time.
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Did we miss out on Dave Titwank?
FFS Emery.
He wouldn't come.
He prefers playing with two big 'uns up top
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Percy, that post was about the entire season. About 25-30 as a team for the rest of this season would be a good return for me (around 1.5 per game).
4 players get 4-5 each covers that which why I said somewhere (Berts thread maybe) that would be my challenge to Watkins, Bailey, Bert, Coutinho and Buendia).
All of them are capable of it and that takes pressure away from people like JJ and Duran.
It was me, not Percy. Just to be clear, you specifically said that 50-60 goals is what we should be aiming for with 30-40 of those coming from the forwards, which is the point of my post above. 25 more goals would have us on 48, which most years would see you finishing about 12th to 14th.
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Whatever way you look at it for a Premier League team to finish a transfer window without enough senior players to put out a full match day squad is pretty weak.
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I was wrong about the Rugby thing the other day, although I wear that particular badge of ignorance with immense pride.
I’m usually wrong about everything but sprout sandwiches and stuffing is a hill I chose to die on in the O/T.
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Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
That particular point is why we got Duran and Traore in - to provide in-game alternatives when things aren't going so well; which makes sense to me.
Guendouzi would have brought a load more dynamism into the team and made a big difference in transition, which is why we should have brought him in last month.
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Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
That particular point is why we got Duran and Traore in - to provide in-game alternatives when things aren't going so well; which makes sense to me.
Guendouzi would have brought a load more dynamism into the team and made a big difference in transition, which is why we should have brought him in last month.
What if Marseille just didn't want to sell in January? Are we meant to offer 20m extra like Chelsea would just to get the deal done?
I'm far from convinced on either Guendouzi or Delefou based on their last performances at PL level. No doubt Guendouzi might be a better more mature player now but we have more than enough quality in CM right now to keep us going until the end of season.
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Traore is usually injured so don’t think he’s going to contribute a lot.
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Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
That particular point is why we got Duran and Traore in - to provide in-game alternatives when things aren't going so well; which makes sense to me.
Guendouzi would have brought a load more dynamism into the team and made a big difference in transition, which is why we should have brought him in last month.
I think that’s slightly revisionist. Duran was referred as one for the future, and hasn’t played much for months, but is going to have to be involved now. Traore is injured and is not really a striker.
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Traore played (and scored) as a striker at Ajax.
The Marseille president reckons he didn't get any bids from an English club for Guendouzi: https://twitter.com/AVFCLatam/status/1621181999967866882
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Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
That particular point is why we got Duran and Traore in - to provide in-game alternatives when things aren't going so well; which makes sense to me.
Guendouzi would have brought a load more dynamism into the team and made a big difference in transition, which is why we should have brought him in last month.
Yes and also the possibility of a false 9 of Ramsey or Buendia.
I think on Duran that Emery is playing it down to how involved he would be as he doesn't want to put too much pressure on him. That's good management. Emery didn't want any unfair comparison made with Ings yet Duran will be playing now instead of Ings.
How well he'll do? Only time will tell . One for now and one for the future due to circumstances.
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Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
That particular point is why we got Duran and Traore in - to provide in-game alternatives when things aren't going so well; which makes sense to me.
Guendouzi would have brought a load more dynamism into the team and made a big difference in transition, which is why we should have brought him in last month.
Yes and also the possibility of a false 9 of Ramsey or Buendia.
I think on Duran that Emery is playing it down as he doesn't want to put too much pressure on him. That's good management.
Doesn’t really work though does it? If you say someone is for the future you don’t leave him as your only genuine alternative striking option in the now.
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Percy, that post was about the entire season. About 25-30 as a team for the rest of this season would be a good return for me (around 1.5 per game).
4 players get 4-5 each covers that which why I said somewhere (Berts thread maybe) that would be my challenge to Watkins, Bailey, Bert, Coutinho and Buendia).
All of them are capable of it and that takes pressure away from people like JJ and Duran.
It was me, not Percy. Just to be clear, you specifically said that 50-60 goals is what we should be aiming for with 30-40 of those coming from the forwards, which is the point of my post above. 25 more goals would have us on 48, which most years would see you finishing about 12th to 14th.
My mistake, I was using my phone and must've misread it.
25 is the bottom end of the range and 25 in 18 games would mean 52-53 over a full 38 game season so is right in the range I'd aim for. This season it's clearly lower than that but I'm not expecting the team to over-achieve to make up for Gerrard being shit, that's not fair, to make up the difference would be an extra 7-8 goals on top over 25 games, which would be top 4 standard (and is actually where we are under Emery so far). Nothing here is a contradiction, in a full season I think 5 players all aiming for 8-10 goals is an achievable goal for a side like us and gets you well on the way to a good season.
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Watkins didn't need to be injured in (for example) the game against Wolves to look ineffective, and having an alternative striker was the reason we ended up with an equaliser and a point.
That particular point is why we got Duran and Traore in - to provide in-game alternatives when things aren't going so well; which makes sense to me.
Guendouzi would have brought a load more dynamism into the team and made a big difference in transition, which is why we should have brought him in last month.
Yes and also the possibility of a false 9 of Ramsey or Buendia.
I think on Duran that Emery is playing it down as he doesn't want to put too much pressure on him. That's good management.
Doesn’t really work though does it? If you say someone is for the future you don’t leave him as your only genuine alternative striking option in the now.
Who knows on this, Emery said he was one for the future I think before Duran had even trained with us. More recently there's lots of noise from the 'tame' local journalists suggesting he's been really impressive in training and is pushing to be a lot more involved than we expected.
Both of those could be true and both could be bullshit but taking the first as gospel and then ignoring the second is making a choice to only believe stuff that supports your view that we've fucked up in the window. I'm not singling you out, you're entitled to your opinion and I don't think it's an unfair one, just pointing out that the more recent stories make it sound a more likely that we'll see Duran regularly for the rest of the season.
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Percy, that post was about the entire season. About 25-30 as a team for the rest of this season would be a good return for me (around 1.5 per game).
4 players get 4-5 each covers that which why I said somewhere (Berts thread maybe) that would be my challenge to Watkins, Bailey, Bert, Coutinho and Buendia).
All of them are capable of it and that takes pressure away from people like JJ and Duran.
It was me, not Percy. Just to be clear, you specifically said that 50-60 goals is what we should be aiming for with 30-40 of those coming from the forwards, which is the point of my post above. 25 more goals would have us on 48, which most years would see you finishing about 12th to 14th.
My mistake, I was using my phone and must've misread it.
25 is the bottom end of the range and 25 in 18 games would mean 52-53 over a full 38 game season so is right in the range I'd aim for. This season it's clearly lower than that but I'm not expecting the team to over-achieve to make up for Gerrard being shit, that's not fair, to make up the difference would be an extra 7-8 goals on top over 25 games, which would be top 4 standard (and is actually where we are under Emery so far). Nothing here is a contradiction, in a full season I think 5 players all aiming for 8-10 goals is an achievable goal for a side like us and gets you well on the way to a good season.
Alternatively just buy a striker.
I wonder how many of our non strikers have had anywhere near 8-10 a season recently.
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Jordan Ayew's brother is out of contract. Maybe we could swoop-in and steal him away from Forest... Gawd, Everton were even rejected by him...
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Percy, that post was about the entire season. About 25-30 as a team for the rest of this season would be a good return for me (around 1.5 per game).
4 players get 4-5 each covers that which why I said somewhere (Berts thread maybe) that would be my challenge to Watkins, Bailey, Bert, Coutinho and Buendia).
All of them are capable of it and that takes pressure away from people like JJ and Duran.
It was me, not Percy. Just to be clear, you specifically said that 50-60 goals is what we should be aiming for with 30-40 of those coming from the forwards, which is the point of my post above. 25 more goals would have us on 48, which most years would see you finishing about 12th to 14th.
My mistake, I was using my phone and must've misread it.
25 is the bottom end of the range and 25 in 18 games would mean 52-53 over a full 38 game season so is right in the range I'd aim for. This season it's clearly lower than that but I'm not expecting the team to over-achieve to make up for Gerrard being shit, that's not fair, to make up the difference would be an extra 7-8 goals on top over 25 games, which would be top 4 standard (and is actually where we are under Emery so far). Nothing here is a contradiction, in a full season I think 5 players all aiming for 8-10 goals is an achievable goal for a side like us and gets you well on the way to a good season.
Alternatively just buy a striker.
I wonder how many of our non strikers have had anywhere near 8-10 a season recently.
The one we brought back from Turkey got eight in his first season.
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Percy, that post was about the entire season. About 25-30 as a team for the rest of this season would be a good return for me (around 1.5 per game).
4 players get 4-5 each covers that which why I said somewhere (Berts thread maybe) that would be my challenge to Watkins, Bailey, Bert, Coutinho and Buendia).
All of them are capable of it and that takes pressure away from people like JJ and Duran.
It was me, not Percy. Just to be clear, you specifically said that 50-60 goals is what we should be aiming for with 30-40 of those coming from the forwards, which is the point of my post above. 25 more goals would have us on 48, which most years would see you finishing about 12th to 14th.
My mistake, I was using my phone and must've misread it.
25 is the bottom end of the range and 25 in 18 games would mean 52-53 over a full 38 game season so is right in the range I'd aim for. This season it's clearly lower than that but I'm not expecting the team to over-achieve to make up for Gerrard being shit, that's not fair, to make up the difference would be an extra 7-8 goals on top over 25 games, which would be top 4 standard (and is actually where we are under Emery so far). Nothing here is a contradiction, in a full season I think 5 players all aiming for 8-10 goals is an achievable goal for a side like us and gets you well on the way to a good season.
Alternatively just buy a striker.
I wonder how many of our non strikers have had anywhere near 8-10 a season recently.
Why would we use ourselves as an example of what we need to do to get into the top 6? It's almost like the idea is to be better than we have been so we finish higher in the table. Also, in case you haven't noticed buying a striker isn't an option now until the summer so we can either carry on bitching and moaning about what we didn't do last month or we can get over it and talk about how the squad we have neds to perform to get us where we want to be.
However, now I've got the snark out of the way, our best season in 12 years was 19/20 when 4 players got 37 between them, which is pretty decent but the goals were a bit overloaded in the first half of the season which meant we fell away.
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Who was the last midfielder/defender we could rely on to score a few? Adomah did well as a winger but apart from that you have to go back years.
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Who was the last midfielder/defender we could rely on to score a few? Adomah did well as a winger but apart from that you have to go back years.
I'd guess that Hourihane's Championship scoring record for us was probably as good as Adomah's.
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Who was the last midfielder/defender we could rely on to score a few? Adomah did well as a winger but apart from that you have to go back years.
Ramsey did ok last season, McGinn and Chester all did well in the promotion season. Hourihane was a great source of goals before we came up.
It really depends on what you mean by a few. For a defender I reckon 4-5 a season is good going and 7-8 for a midfielder.
In the premier league it's tougher, Luiz is on for a decent return this year though.
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Martin Laursen maybe? Mings and Konsa rarely look like scoring from a set piece. Laursen was like a human cannonball in comparison in the opposition box..Gareth Barry (maybe from penos mostly), Taylor, Hourihane, Young.
Need more from our current crop, Ramsey has all the ability to do it more often.
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Laursen was fucking awesome in the air. What a player he was.
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One season El Ghazi 10 goals in 28 games. And one of the best penalty takers in the league!
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I don't think we've ever had a midfielder in the premier league get into double figures
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One season El Ghazi 10 goals in 28 games. And one of the best penalty takers in the league!
His stats were pretty good, I didn't really rate him in general, however, his penalties were excellent.
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I'm quite happy with our transfer window. Obviously would have liked our main targets, but if we can get them in the summer then it shows we have a clear plan for a certain type of player rather than just spending the money on squad players.
Ings wanted away so despite leaving us a little short up top It was probably a good deal in getting half decent money for him.
Bailey can fit in if Ollie gets injured and perhaps Duran can get more game time than we are currently expecting.
Obviously if we have a bad summer transfer window then all this is a moot point but I trust Emery will get who he wants in the summer.
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The manager is the best signing we've made this season.
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All of this really highlights the fact that we've spent too many seasons relying on 1-2 players to score the goals, we need to change that. If it so happens that Duran/Archer/Wilson/whoever evolves into a 20 a season striker then fucking fantastic, no one would be upset by that but we need to stop praying for a unicorn and start working on getting more players into goalscoring positions regularly.
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Why would we use ourselves as an example of what we need to do to get into the top 6? It's almost like the idea is to be better than we have been so we finish higher in the table. Also, in case you haven't noticed buying a striker isn't an option now until the summer so we can either carry on bitching and moaning about what we didn't do last month or we can get over it and talk about how the squad we have neds to perform to get us where we want to be.
Alright Paul, calm down. I know the window is closed, I am just pointing out that relying on midfielders is not going to be as likely to deliver as buying a striker would have been. The reason I am using ourselves is an example is because it's something we almost never seem to manage, so I doubt it's going to change any time soon.
I know the window is shut. I'd also suggest moaning about people going on about it and bitching and moaning still now the window is closed is a bit much as you seem to have spent the entire day arguing about it (although I am impressed with your perseverance).
However, now I've got the snark out of the way,
That's more like it
our best season in 12 years was 19/20 when 4 players got 37 between them, which is pretty decent but the goals were a bit overloaded in the first half of the season which meant we fell away.
Who were those players, and how many of those goals were in our (long) cup run?
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I don't think we've ever had a midfielder in the premier league get into double figures
David Platt was hitting 18 and 19 goals a season
Barry hit 9
Milner 7
Hendrie 6
Taylor 6
David Platt must have been quite something.
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He was, Footy, he was. Very good at everything. Apart from heading. When it came to that, he was on a different level to mere mortals. The best header of a ball I've watched wearing claret & blue.
And he had his own fan club.
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Why would we use ourselves as an example of what we need to do to get into the top 6? It's almost like the idea is to be better than we have been so we finish higher in the table. Also, in case you haven't noticed buying a striker isn't an option now until the summer so we can either carry on bitching and moaning about what we didn't do last month or we can get over it and talk about how the squad we have neds to perform to get us where we want to be.
Alright Paul, calm down. I know the window is closed, I am just pointing out that relying on midfielders is not going to be as likely to deliver as buying a striker would have been. The reason I am using ourselves is an example is because it's something we almost never seem to manage, so I doubt it's going to change any time soon.
I know the window is shut. I'd also suggest moaning about people going on about it and bitching and moaning still now the window is closed is a bit much as you seem to have spent the entire day arguing about it (although I am impressed with your perseverance).
However, now I've got the snark out of the way,
That's more like it
our best season in 12 years was 19/20 when 4 players got 37 between them, which is pretty decent but the goals were a bit overloaded in the first half of the season which meant we fell away.
Who were those players, and how many of those goals were in our (long) cup run?
This is literally the first post I've made all day about people moaning about a lack of another striker.
I agree it's something we almost never manage, that's literally my point, we need to change how we think about attacking play. 1 forward scoring 20 goals a season is a dying version of the sport, some elite freaks (like Haaland and Kane) are still churning out goals like that but most of the best teams spread the goals out better, if we want to be one of those teams then we need to adapt, not try to resurrect the corpse of the old meat and potatoes 4 4 fucking 2.
37 goals, all in the league Watkins(14), ElGhazi(10), Traore(7) and Grealish(6). Yes Watkins got a few more and Grealish was a little light (but only made 26 appearances) but the concept holds true. The 2 big problems that season were Barkley not being another in the picture (when his role was to get goals from midfield) and Grealish missing so many games but it was undeniably our best season since mon left and was the only season in that period (in the premier league) where we scored a decent amount of goals.
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He was, Footy, he was. Very good at everything. Apart from heading. When it came to that, he was on a different level to mere mortals. The best header of a ball I've watched wearing claret & blue.
And he had his own fan club.
I've seen Italia 90 documentary though alot was focused on Gazza and other players. Platt was up and coming wasnt he . And that goal against Belguim was amazing. Never really see goals like that from an English player. Great technique! Seemed like a more professional Dele Ali or something?
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Platt was a great snooker player too.
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I've seen Italia 90 documentary though alot was focused on Gazza and other players. Platt was up and coming wasnt he . And that goal against Belguim was amazing. Never really see goals like that from an English player. Great technique! Seemed like a more professional Dele Ali or something?
Of players you'd know Lampard is probably the closest example with a lot of his goals coming from drifting in the box late and being unmarked for crosses, etc. That's how I remember him for us anyway, I was still a kid but from the few games I saw him live the image I bring up was of him throwing himself at a header after a late burst into space.
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He was, Footy, he was. Very good at everything. Apart from heading. When it came to that, he was on a different level to mere mortals. The best header of a ball I've watched wearing claret & blue.
And he had his own fan club.
I've seen Italia 90 documentary though alot was focused on Gazza and other players. Platt was up and coming wasnt he . And that goal against Belguim was amazing. Never really see goals like that from an English player. Great technique! Seemed like a more professional Dele Ali or something?
I'll forgive you that one, Footy and blame it on youth, but David Platt was on a totally different planet to Delle Ali.
He was a truly great player for us. I saw his debut away at Blackburn (3-3 draw, he scored twice, great match, quite a lot of aggro after I remember so all in all a lively day out).
The problem with Platt is that despite us having given him his great chance and made him a top international player, he now acts like we don't exist.
He also now looks like the reflection of a normal person in the back of a tablespoon. Or a slightly wonky faced dolphin.
Great player though.
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I think I may have said, I’m optimistic on Duran. (This is not meant to be a comment on our transfer business by the way).
He played senior football at 15, and apparently it was seen as a bit of a moment when he replaced the established centre-forward for Columbia. I seem to remember they said Falcoa but isn’t he a bit too old to be still playing?
Anyway, he was signed by Chicago at 17 and was planning his next move at 5 months later. Apparently he made a few sub appearances, impressed, got in the team and from then on scored regularly, all while Chicago struggled otherwise. Bear in mind he only turned 19 in December. So, I’m getting g Rooney vibes. Watch him make a fool of me now.
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My last on the matter. I will take to the grave my conviction that if Platt had stayed and played in that Atkinson side, we'd have won the inaugural Premier League. Comfortably.
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Dele Alli on his best day wasn’t half the player Platt was on an average day. Platt’s runs in to the box were things you cannot teach. Just so instinctive. He score so many superb goals for us but the one that will always stick out for me, probably because of where I was sat upper Trinity at the North, was his header from Kevin Gage’s cross vs Bradford in our promotion season. Huge game, massive win, 1-0 job done. Brilliant. Now he’s just a bitter moon faced wanker. A conversation for another day.
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My last on the matter. I will take to the grave my conviction that if Platt had stayed and played in that Atkinson side, we'd have won the inaugural Premier League. Comfortably.
I'm not so sure but I think we'd have definitely won it if the Leeds chairman hadn't picked up the phone to inquire about signing Denis Irwin from Yanited.
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Dele Alli on his best day wasn’t half the player Platt was on an average day. Platt’s runs in to the box were things you cannot teach. Just so instinctive. He score so many superb goals for us but the one that will always stick out for me, probably because of where I was sat upper Trinity at the North, was his header from Kevin Gage’s cross vs Bradford in our promotion season. Huge game, massive win, 1-0 job done. Brilliant. Now he’s just a bitter moon faced wanker. A conversation for another day.
That goal might well be the one I'm picturing as well but I don't really remember the games I went to that season very well, I only got really into football after the 90 world cup.
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Dele Alli on his best day wasn’t half the player Platt was on an average day. Platt’s runs in to the box were things you cannot teach. Just so instinctive. He score so many superb goals for us but the one that will always stick out for me, probably because of where I was sat upper Trinity at the North, was his header from Kevin Gage’s cross vs Bradford in our promotion season. Huge game, massive win, 1-0 job done. Brilliant. Now he’s just a bitter moon faced wanker. A conversation for another day.
That goal might well be the one I'm picturing as well but I don't really remember the games I went to that season very well, I only got really into football after the 90 world cup.
I started going in 1988, but yeah probably not far off you - I got really in to football in the second half of the 89/90 season. I can remember David Platt really standing out in that team (well, with Paul McGrath obvs) but not so many of the details. Just that I was a bit disappointed when he didn't score. And literally every kid in our school thought he was the best player in the country, even the ones who supported inferior sides like Liverpool. And basically at our school you either supported Villa or Liverpool - there was like 1 Albion fan, 1 Spurs supporter, 1 Port Vale supporter, then everyone else in our class, the class above, and the class below either supported Villa or Liverpool.
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I don't think we've ever had a midfielder in the premier league get into double figures
Ian Taylor?
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I don't think we've ever had a midfielder in the premier league get into double figures
Ian Taylor?
I don't think we've ever had a midfielder in the premier league get into double figures
David Platt was hitting 18 and 19 goals a season
Barry hit 9
Milner 7
Hendrie 6
Taylor 6
David Platt must have been quite something.
Keep up!
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If my memory is correct, and it might not be, Platt was often played up front back then, wasn't he?
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My last on the matter. I will take to the grave my conviction that if Platt had stayed and played in that Atkinson side, we'd have won the inaugural Premier League. Comfortably.
Wouldn't have had the money to sign most of the side that took us to second if we'd kept him.
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I don't think we've ever had a midfielder in the premier league get into double figures
Ian Taylor?
just El Ghazi, if you class him as a midfielder, and some of those were penalties. Garry Parker got 9 in 92/93
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If my memory is correct, and it might not be, Platt was often played up front back then, wasn't he?
If I remember rightly he was signed as a striker originally, then we moved him into midfield.
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Dele Alli on his best day wasn’t half the player Platt was on an average day. Platt’s runs in to the box were things you cannot teach. Just so instinctive. He score so many superb goals for us but the one that will always stick out for me, probably because of where I was sat upper Trinity at the North, was his header from Kevin Gage’s cross vs Bradford in our promotion season. Huge game, massive win, 1-0 job done. Brilliant. Now he’s just a bitter moon faced wanker. A conversation for another day.
That goal might well be the one I'm picturing as well but I don't really remember the games I went to that season very well, I only got really into football after the 90 world cup.
And literally every kid in our school thought he was the best player in the country, even the ones who supported inferior sides like Liverpool.
He was PFA player of the year. He was one of the few players we’ve had in my time (same as you) that I would say was world class. One of the very best midfielders in Europe, indeed the world between 1989 and the mid nineties (when he joined Arsenal).
Nearly 20 goals from attacking midfield two seasons in a row for us, we were going for the league one year and in a relegation battle the other. England captain, nearly a goal every two games for England from attacking midfield.
As for whether we’d have won the league in 92-93 had he still been here, we wouldn’t have had the rest of the team if he had because we bought most of them with the proceeds from his sale. But yes, in theory that team in 92-93 with Platt and also a fit Tony Daley would have certainly done it.
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Platt and Lampard were somewhat similar with that late run into the box?
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Platt had the knack and intelligence to be in the right place at the right time in the penalty area. Villa have never had a player since who could consistently time a run that well. The fact that he played with Sid Cowans at Villa helped him enormously though.
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He kinda did next to fuck all in midfield though, which seems a bit churlish considering he got 20 goals a season, Best finisher I’ve ever seen for us.
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My last on the matter. I will take to the grave my conviction that if Platt had stayed and played in that Atkinson side, we'd have won the inaugural Premier League. Comfortably.
Wouldn't have had the money to sign most of the side that took us to second if we'd kept him.
I do often wonder what would've happened if we had persuaded Rambo McInally to stay in the summer of 89, mind.
Imagine that 89/90 team with McGrath, Platt, Cowans, Daley plus Rambo up top.
The fee from Keown OG would've still covered the McGrath deal. Adrian Heath had a negligible impact on the side despite the £450,000 fee (which we prob wouldn't have forked out if McInally remained at VP). So the only real extra would be the Nielsen fee.
All pie in the sky, ofc. Graham Taylor would have to be silvertongue extraordinaire once Bayern had made a concrete offer.
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25 is the bottom end of the range and 25 in 18 games would mean 52-53 over a full 38 game season so is right in the range I'd aim for. This season it's clearly lower than that but I'm not expecting the team to over-achieve to make up for Gerrard being shit, that's not fair, to make up the difference would be an extra 7-8 goals on top over 25 games, which would be top 4 standard (and is actually where we are under Emery so far). Nothing here is a contradiction, in a full season I think 5 players all aiming for 8-10 goals is an achievable goal for a side like us and gets you well on the way to a good season.
We were specifically talking about what was possible from this point onwards this season though, not extrapolating it over a whole season. You said that 30-40 goals from the current forwards as a total for the season was possible, starting from a game ago. I thought it was doubtful then, and extremely unlikely now we've sold Ings.
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He kinda did next to fuck all in midfield though, which seems a bit churlish considering he got 20 goals a season, Best finisher I’ve ever seen for us.
Often thought about it as he was my favourite player as a kid and I think he would probably be that modern number 10 / attacking midfielder (cue Mick McCarthy) type of player now.
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Was Platt lazy off the ball?
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Was Platt lazy off the ball?
It didn't really work like that back then, did it? He was a goalscorer, so he was in the team to get goals, rather than press. I can't remember, I was 11/12 when he was in his pomp for us.
I used to play in a similar position back then, and I sure as fuck didn't track back. I think my deep experience of the Shropshire junior leagues qualifies me to make the point.
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Was Platt lazy off the ball?
It didn't really work like that back then, did it? He was a goalscorer, so he was in the team to get goals, rather than press. I can't remember, I was 11/12 when he was in his pomp for us.
I used to play in a similar position back then, and I sure as fuck didn't track back. I think my deep experience of the Shropshire junior leagues qualifies me to make the point.
I was old enough to notice he hardly touched the ball apart from caressing it beautifully into the net.
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I do often wonder what would've happened if we had persuaded Rambo McInally to stay in the summer of 89, mind.
Imagine that 89/90 team with McGrath, Platt, Cowans, Daley plus Rambo up top.
As do I. I knew our players better then than I do today which seems absurd when I think about it. Back then we only got one televised game a weekend on telly (and that wasn't often Villa) and I remember my dad bought me a shortwave radio so I could listen (barely!) to our triumphs during the Div 2 season, 87-88.
Glory days.
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I do wonder how that 89/90 team ever got the ball back? The 532 formation with Platt and Cowans in midfield was hardly tough tackling.
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25 is the bottom end of the range and 25 in 18 games would mean 52-53 over a full 38 game season so is right in the range I'd aim for. This season it's clearly lower than that but I'm not expecting the team to over-achieve to make up for Gerrard being shit, that's not fair, to make up the difference would be an extra 7-8 goals on top over 25 games, which would be top 4 standard (and is actually where we are under Emery so far). Nothing here is a contradiction, in a full season I think 5 players all aiming for 8-10 goals is an achievable goal for a side like us and gets you well on the way to a good season.
We were specifically talking about what was possible from this point onwards this season though, not extrapolating it over a whole season. You said that 30-40 goals from the current forwards as a total for the season was possible, starting from a game ago. I thought it was doubtful then, and extremely unlikely now we've sold Ings.
Without finding the post out, which I can't be arsed to do, I'm just gonna assume a misunderstanding here. Getting near to 60 goals from our position when Emery came in would've meant champions league form over 3/4s of a season. However it should be our target going forward.
For this season getting around 50 will be good and to achieve that we need 25-30 goals so we need 15-20 from our attacking players.
Given we've had 17 from them so far, Ings included, getting to 30 for the season isn't just a target, it's the minimum I'd expect. The goals Ings scored don't stop counting because he was sold.
What's a bit weird is that you're digging this up on a different thread and I'm not sure why. I've been consistent for years in wanting the goals spread out more across the team, in wanting about 1.5per game as the target and thinking doing that woild put us in the mix for the top 6.
The only slightly new points are that I've given splitting strikers and wingers, mostly because they seem a little interchangeable under Emery and I've clarified that, for a full season, I'd be challenging 4-5 players to aim for 8-10 each.
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Without finding the post out, which I can't be arsed to do, I'm just gonna assume a misunderstanding here. Getting near to 60 goals from our position when Emery came in would've meant champions league form over 3/4s of a season. However it should be our target going forward.
For this season getting around 50 will be good and to achieve that we need 25-30 goals so we need 15-20 from our attacking players.
Given we've had 17 from them so far, Ings included, getting to 30 for the season isn't just a target, it's the minimum I'd expect. The goals Ings scored don't stop counting because he was sold.
What's a bit weird is that you're digging this up on a different thread and I'm not sure why. I've been consistent for years in wanting the goals spread out more across the team, in wanting about 1.5per game as the target and thinking doing that woild put us in the mix for the top 6.
The only slightly new points are that I've given splitting strikers and wingers, mostly because they seem a little interchangeable under Emery and I've clarified that, for a full season, I'd be challenging 4-5 players to aim for 8-10 each.
It's relevant and therefore not weird because selling Ings was a key decision in the transfer window, and in my opinion selling him and not replacing him has weakened the attacking unit, making the chances of hitting targets for goals scored much less likely. We'll see over the second half of the season of course, but generally having one recognised striker wouldn't be considered desirable by most managers.
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Stop fighting, we're remembering our world-class Platt!
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Was Platt lazy off the ball?
It didn't really work like that back then, did it? He was a goalscorer, so he was in the team to get goals, rather than press. I can't remember, I was 11/12 when he was in his pomp for us.
I used to play in a similar position back then, and I sure as fuck didn't track back. I think my deep experience of the Shropshire junior leagues qualifies me to make the point.
I was old enough to notice he hardly touched the ball apart from caressing it beautifully into the net.
Not sure i'd agree with that, he used to come deep and take the ball off Spink and start the next attack from there at times. He also used to get it in midfield and play clever little angled passes out wide or into the striker. He was involved quite a lot really and was one of those that pretty much never gave the ball away. I don't recall him putting in many crunching tackles but he was superb otherwise. Obviuosly his runs into the box from deep and his finishing was the best part of his game though. The goal boxing day against Man Utd being the stand out one for me. I was suprised he didn't really do much when he cam back to England in 95, he was still under 30 at that point, but looked like he'd pretty much had it.
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As I recall it, Nigel Spink would roll the ball to Platt, Platt would move it on to Paul McGrath, who would play it on to Tony Daley, Daley would then proceed down the wing - a bit like a torpedo - and put the ball up in the air for Tony Cascarino.
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Tony Cascarino!
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Obviously what really used to happen was Daley would run in a straight line, fast, and then run out of pitch and in to touch, like a scrawnier Adama Traore.
If he ever did get the ball in the air towards Cascarino, he'd either totally fail to make contact or if he did, his 50p head would ensure the ball pinged off at a random angle.
Basically, everything after the McGrath phase = the stuff of fantasy.
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As I recall it, Nigel Spink would roll the ball to Platt, Platt would move it on to Paul McGrath, who would play it on to Tony Daley, Daley would then proceed down the wing - a bit like a torpedo - and put the ball up in the air for Tony Cascarino.
Did we ever score a real goal like that? I've always wondered.
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Obviously what really used to happen was Daley would run in a straight line, fast, and then run out of pitch and in to touch, like a scrawnier Adama Traore.
If he ever did get the ball in the air towards Cascarino, he'd either totally fail to make contact or if he did, his 50p head would ensure the ball pinged off at a random angle.
Basically, everything after the McGrath phase = the stuff of fantasy.
Harsh on Daley. Fantastic player.
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Obviously what really used to happen was Daley would run in a straight line, fast, and then run out of pitch and in to touch, like a scrawnier Adama Traore.
If he ever did get the ball in the air towards Cascarino, he'd either totally fail to make contact or if he did, his 50p head would ensure the ball pinged off at a random angle.
Basically, everything after the McGrath phase = the stuff of fantasy.
Harsh on Daley. Fantastic player.
Yep.
One of my favourite Villa players ever.
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Obviously what really used to happen was Daley would run in a straight line, fast, and then run out of pitch and in to touch, like a scrawnier Adama Traore.
If he ever did get the ball in the air towards Cascarino, he'd either totally fail to make contact or if he did, his 50p head would ensure the ball pinged off at a random angle.
Basically, everything after the McGrath phase = the stuff of fantasy.
Harsh on Daley. Fantastic player.
He was but his crossing was often erratic but when it mattered in the Tranmere semifinal he pulled out a pinpoint ball for Dalian’s late goal.
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Obviously what really used to happen was Daley would run in a straight line, fast, and then run out of pitch and in to touch, like a scrawnier Adama Traore.
If he ever did get the ball in the air towards Cascarino, he'd either totally fail to make contact or if he did, his 50p head would ensure the ball pinged off at a random angle.
Basically, everything after the McGrath phase = the stuff of fantasy.
Harsh on Daley. Fantastic player.
He was but his crossing was often erratic but when it mattered in the Tranmere semifinal he pulled out a pinpoint ball for Dalian’s late goal.
Tony Daley .. I must have stood next to his dad every other week, as all you could hear in the Holte, every time he got the ball all you could hear was, "go on my son ..."
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Daley was more about dribbling and pace than crossing, certainly in the early days. His goal against Luton was an absolute beaut.
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Daley was more about dribbling and pace than crossing, certainly in the early days. His goal against Luton was an absolute beaut.
West Brom away in the cup, the one v Man City (I think?) where Regis flicked on a long ball from the keeper and he volleyed it in. The ball never touched the grass. The volley v Everton…
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I wish we had a Tony Daley now. Someone who gets you off your seat every game and runs at defenders. Give me that than this slow build up play any day.
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Daley would have been more suited to today's game with wingers cutting in and crossing not a prerequisite.
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Daley was more about dribbling and pace than crossing, certainly in the early days. His goal against Luton was an absolute beaut.
West Brom away in the cup, the one v Man City (I think?) where Regis flicked on a long ball from the keeper and he volleyed it in. The ball never touched the grass. The volley v Everton…
His goal against Chelsea away (New Years Day?) in 89-90, where he got the ball around the halfway line and just ran before smashing it into the top corner. "Even Dorigo's not quick enough to get to him". I often cite that as my favourite goal of all time. He was unplayable when he was at his best.
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Daley was more about dribbling and pace than crossing, certainly in the early days. His goal against Luton was an absolute beaut.
Had that hapless Luton fullback on toast that day, IIRC. Bloke went to grab him to block him off, but Daley was that quick he was clutching at thin air and fell on his arse.
Did similar to the Arsenal backline earlier in the season. Also did it against Inter Milan at home the following year. No way should that goal have been disallowed.
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I think it was around 92-93, when he looked like he might move to Italy (to Torino or Udinese or somebody like that) that he seemed to stop trying to take people on and just kept passing it back to the full back. I can't really recall if there was a reason he became less effective, was he injured for a while or something?
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I think it was around 92-93, when he looked like he might move to Italy (to Torino or Udinese or somebody like that) that he seemed to stop trying to take people on and just kept passing it back to the full back. I can't really recall if there was a reason he became less effective, was he injured for a while or something?
Ideally, that shot that hit the post leading to third goal v Manure in the 94 cup final would have gone in. That was a great move.
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Oh yes he was still capable of some great moments, he just didn't seem to be the exciting, explosive talent he was from a few years earlier. He was still only 26 when he went to the Dingles.
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On his day he was fantastic. I remember him coming on against Liverpool as sub in one of his first appearances and taking on almost the whole team and nearly scoring. As I remember Little (who was coaching the youth team) thought Taylor brought him into the first team too soon. I think niggly injuries caught up with him and as he depended on pace he went downhill fairly quickly. Why did we sing he was like a Tall Paedo?
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Without finding the post out, which I can't be arsed to do, I'm just gonna assume a misunderstanding here. Getting near to 60 goals from our position when Emery came in would've meant champions league form over 3/4s of a season. However it should be our target going forward.
For this season getting around 50 will be good and to achieve that we need 25-30 goals so we need 15-20 from our attacking players.
Given we've had 17 from them so far, Ings included, getting to 30 for the season isn't just a target, it's the minimum I'd expect. The goals Ings scored don't stop counting because he was sold.
What's a bit weird is that you're digging this up on a different thread and I'm not sure why. I've been consistent for years in wanting the goals spread out more across the team, in wanting about 1.5per game as the target and thinking doing that woild put us in the mix for the top 6.
The only slightly new points are that I've given splitting strikers and wingers, mostly because they seem a little interchangeable under Emery and I've clarified that, for a full season, I'd be challenging 4-5 players to aim for 8-10 each.
It's relevant and therefore not weird because selling Ings was a key decision in the transfer window, and in my opinion selling him and not replacing him has weakened the attacking unit, making the chances of hitting targets for goals scored much less likely. We'll see over the second half of the season of course, but generally having one recognised striker wouldn't be considered desirable by most managers.
It's weird because you're arguing semantics of a post I made days ago without quoting it and then trying to wrap me up with your interpretation of my own words so you can be all smug about it.
Instead of carrying on with that how about we restart it. Our attacking 'unit' has scored 17 goals so far, to get to 30 (the lower end of the range I suggested) they need 13 in 18. Do you think that is 'extremely unlikely' because we've sold Ings? If so how about we make a bet?
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I think it was around 92-93, when he looked like he might move to Italy (to Torino or Udinese or somebody like that) that he seemed to stop trying to take people on and just kept passing it back to the full back. I can't really recall if there was a reason he became less effective, was he injured for a while or something?
Bryan Robson smashed him in a game up there around Christmas 1990 and he was out for a while, he was never the same player afterwards
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Daley was more about dribbling and pace than crossing, certainly in the early days. His goal against Luton was an absolute beaut.
Let’s face it if he played for us today, with online forums and social media he’d be getting the same treatment Bert and Bailey get. Daley has an immensely frustrating player who could have the most incredible moments like the Luton goal, or the flying volley vs Everton. Too often the cross was poor because he was so fast and the control wasn’t there. But we love a good winger at Villa and he played for us at a good time under SGT.
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Daley was more about dribbling and pace than crossing, certainly in the early days. His goal against Luton was an absolute beaut.
Let’s face it if he played for us today, with online forums and social media he’d be getting the same treatment Bert and Bailey get. Daley has an immensely frustrating player who could have the most incredible moments like the Luton goal, or the flying volley vs Everton. Too often the cross was poor because he was so fast and the control wasn’t there. But we love a good winger at Villa and he played for us at a good time under SGT.
I showed my lad Tony Morley yesterday during the European cup run . Some of his wing play was
phenomenal, forgot how good he was
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Scored the first ever Villa goal I saw live, so obviously that makes Daley great.
(1-0 win against Coventry, Highfield Road, 1994)
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I think it was around 92-93, when he looked like he might move to Italy (to Torino or Udinese or somebody like that) that he seemed to stop trying to take people on and just kept passing it back to the full back. I can't really recall if there was a reason he became less effective, was he injured for a while or something?
He only played another 40-odd professional games in the five years after he left us, till he went into non-league and played regularly again. My guess is he had injury problems which prevented him being the explosive player he was in his early twenties. Without that, he was, unfortunately, not the same player.
There are a few players from that era and slightly before where I wonder if they'd played today, with today's medical expertise and surgeons/physios who can fix almost anything, would they have been able to play many more years of top level football. Gary Shaw is the other obvious one.
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In the summer I would look to upgrade or give youth a chance by replacing these:
Olsen, Chambers, Cash, Dendonker, McGinn, Coutinho, Wesley
Depending on where we finish Martinez and Kamara may be enticed away but hoping have another season of them as they are exceptional and unless big fees no need to sell.
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Daley was more about dribbling and pace than crossing, certainly in the early days. His goal against Luton was an absolute beaut.
Let’s face it if he played for us today, with online forums and social media he’d be getting the same treatment Bert and Bailey get. Daley has an immensely frustrating player who could have the most incredible moments like the Luton goal, or the flying volley vs Everton. Too often the cross was poor because he was so fast and the control wasn’t there. But we love a good winger at Villa and he played for us at a good time under SGT.
By the time he went he was already getting pelters from the Holte End. Crowds weren't really much different back then, there are just more ways to express it these days.
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In the summer I would look to upgrade or give youth a chance by replacing these:
Olsen, Chambers, Cash, Dendonker, McGinn, Coutinho, Wesley
Depending on where we finish Martinez and Kamara may be enticed away but hoping have another season of them as they are exceptional and unless big fees no need to sell.
Martinez and Kamara will be going absolutely nowhere.
From the list, I'd agree on Olsen, Wesley and perhaps Chambers. The others are all good enough to stay and I'd hope perform well for the rest of the season under Emery.
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I don't think we'll sell many, we just need to be in a position where the likes of Watkins, McGinn and Konsa aren't necessarily first choice any more.
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I don't think we'll sell many, we just need to be in a position where the likes of Watkins, McGinn and Konsa aren't necessarily first choice any more.
Yep, I agree, I think that's exactly what Emery is trying to do. We need First team players, not squad players, next.
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In the summer I would look to upgrade or give youth a chance by replacing these:
Olsen, Chambers, Cash, Dendonker, McGinn, Coutinho, Wesley
Depending on where we finish Martinez and Kamara may be enticed away but hoping have another season of them as they are exceptional and unless big fees no need to sell.
Martinez and Kamara will be going absolutely nowhere.
From the list, I'd agree on Olsen, Wesley and perhaps Chambers. The others are all good enough to stay and I'd hope perform well for the rest of the season under Emery.
However, I would like to think Emery can add players who are better at maintaining possession than those named by me for the next season.
Additionally, lets sign players with superior athleticism, self-control, and football IQ. With the exception of Coutinho, who possesses all of these qualities but appears to have lost his drive, perseverance, and confidence
I believe Cash and McGinn are the ones Emery will get found out and have now half a season to show what they are capable of. There is room for progress on their part like any player, but I just feel that these two characters in particular won't match the play style, and that getting two individuals to take their place who are better suited will advance us rather than keeping company with them. Its telling neither are guaranteed a place in starting line up. I don't think either are nailed for the remainder of the season.
Emery said he wanted different characteristics to come into the squad and likes of Guendouzi who is 5 years younger than McGinn would be one
Ings was made captain for a match but ultimately sold and McGinn despite the honour of Captain has now to endeavour and show fitness and attitude and abilities to be in the team. He has improved but there are players out there who we can buy same with the rest on the list that are more for football.
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That’s the transition. We need to keep the best first team players at the club. And the next best, they can still contribute in what is now very much a squad game. The 5 subs rule as much as I’m not a fan does allow for more players to contribute. But there are easily 3 or 4 players who should not be regular and need to be upgraded by players of the standard of Kamara or Emi Martinez. That’s the only way we can convince those players to stay is by showing the ambition that matches theirs. Newcastle have shown it is possible with good coaching, players having greater self belief and some astute player acquisition that the turnaround can be fast. We can achieve that too and having the right set up behind the scenes and a legitimate long term plan will help.
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I don't think we'll sell many, we just need to be in a position where the likes of Watkins, McGinn and Konsa aren't necessarily first choice any more.
Yep, I agree, I think that's exactly what Emery is trying to do. We need First team players, not squad players, next.
Yes certainly dont need am ovehaul but depending on how much we spend and how many signed we can get fees for McGinn and Cash while bringing in upgrades as part of the trade.
If Everton stay up we could sell high to them for example.
Or Cash back to forest.
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In the summer I would look to upgrade or give youth a chance by replacing these:
Olsen, Chambers, Cash, Dendonker, McGinn, Coutinho, Wesley
Depending on where we finish Martinez and Kamara may be enticed away but hoping have another season of them as they are exceptional and unless big fees no need to sell.
Martinez and Kamara will be going absolutely nowhere.
From the list, I'd agree on Olsen, Wesley and perhaps Chambers. The others are all good enough to stay and I'd hope perform well for the rest of the season under Emery.
However, I would like to think Emery can add players who are better at maintaining possession than those named by me for the next season.
Additionally, lets sign players with superior athleticism, self-control, and football IQ. With the exception of Coutinho, who possesses all of these qualities but appears to have lost his drive, perseverance, and confidence
I believe Cash and McGinn are the ones Emery will get found out and have now half a season to show what they are capable of. There is room for progress on their part like any player, but I just feel that these two characters in particular won't match the play style, and that getting two individuals to take their place who are better suited will advance us rather than keeping company with them. Its telling neither are guaranteed a place in starting line up. I don't think either are nailed for the remainder of the season.
Emery said he wanted different characteristics to come into the squad and likes of Guendouzi who is 5 years younger than McGinn would be one
Ings was made captain for a match but ultimately sold and McGinn despite the honour of Captain has now to endeavour and show fitness and attitude and abilities to be in the team. He has improved but there are players out there who we can buy same with the rest on the list that are more for football.
I think McGinn will have a very strong second half of the season and prove you (and his many detractors on here) wrong. I'm not a fan of Emery's formation but I do think it will suit McGinn more than most.
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As I recall it, Nigel Spink would roll the ball to Platt, Platt would move it on to Paul McGrath, who would play it on to Tony Daley, Daley would then proceed down the wing - a bit like a torpedo - and put the ball up in the air for Tony Cascarino.
Did we ever score a real goal like that? I've always wondered.
Yes, before Cascarino arrived.
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That’s the transition. We need to keep the best first team players at the club. And the next best, they can still contribute in what is now very much a squad game. The 5 subs rule as much as I’m not a fan does allow for more players to contribute. But there are easily 3 or 4 players who should not be regular and need to be upgraded by players of the standard of Kamara or Emi Martinez. That’s the only way we can convince those players to stay is by showing the ambition that matches theirs. Newcastle have shown it is possible with good coaching, players having greater self belief and some astute player acquisition that the turnaround can be fast. We can achieve that too and having the right set up behind the scenes and a legitimate long term plan will help.
TThe important part we really shouldn't forget is the the impact of the right players isn't just their extra ability over who they replace. Kamara has clearly been a big upgrade in midfield but he's also made Luiz look a better player, Martinez, in my opinion, makes Mings a better player.
This is why I'm not against the manager being more cautious in who he brings in and focusing on a smaller number of options. It does risk us having gaps in the squad as we've seen but over time I'd hope it means that the players we do bring in are a better fit and increase the levels of the rest of the squad as well.
I suspect that's what happened with Moreno for example, Digne isn't a bad player but with us playing Buendia/Coutinho on the left and with Watkins drifting into space outside the right centre back I can see it being decided that we needed someone with the ability to underlap as well as overlap, depending on where the play is developing (and with the extra pace to see those opportunities and act on them). If that's the case then as we develop the interplay between them I'd expect to see Moreno popping up in an inside left position more often and getting more shots away than we've seen before, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him score a few goals before the summer by doing that.
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He was still only 26 when he went to the Dingles.
Shame that, it's such a young age for a footballer to retire.
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That’s the transition. We need to keep the best first team players at the club. And the next best, they can still contribute in what is now very much a squad game. The 5 subs rule as much as I’m not a fan does allow for more players to contribute. But there are easily 3 or 4 players who should not be regular and need to be upgraded by players of the standard of Kamara or Emi Martinez. That’s the only way we can convince those players to stay is by showing the ambition that matches theirs. Newcastle have shown it is possible with good coaching, players having greater self belief and some astute player acquisition that the turnaround can be fast. We can achieve that too and having the right set up behind the scenes and a legitimate long term plan will help.
TThe important part we really shouldn't forget is the the impact of the right players isn't just their extra ability over who they replace. Kamara has clearly been a big upgrade in midfield but he's also made Luiz look a better player, Martinez, in my opinion, makes Mings a better player.
This is why I'm not against the manager being more cautious in who he brings in and focusing on a smaller number of options. It does risk us having gaps in the squad as we've seen but over time I'd hope it means that the players we do bring in are a better fit and increase the levels of the rest of the squad as well.
I suspect that's what happened with Moreno for example, Digne isn't a bad player but with us playing Buendia/Coutinho on the left and with Watkins drifting into space outside the right centre back I can see it being decided that we needed someone with the ability to underlap as well as overlap, depending on where the play is developing (and with the extra pace to see those opportunities and act on them). If that's the case then as we develop the interplay between them I'd expect to see Moreno popping up in an inside left position more often and getting more shots away than we've seen before, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him score a few goals before the summer by doing that.
I think Emery sees Moreno as an option for wide midfield if we need to push the game and he has brought him in for this as much as fullback.
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The gaffer
“If we didn’t have the possibility to sign a player to improve the team, we were sure that we wouldn’t do it.
“I am so happy because I think we have players with big commitment, they are showing us their performance.”
On Bert
I know him, I was following him when he was at Lyon and when he arrived here, he was an important player.
“His commitment is very good, he pushed to come back here and help us.”
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That’s the transition. We need to keep the best first team players at the club. And the next best, they can still contribute in what is now very much a squad game. The 5 subs rule as much as I’m not a fan does allow for more players to contribute. But there are easily 3 or 4 players who should not be regular and need to be upgraded by players of the standard of Kamara or Emi Martinez. That’s the only way we can convince those players to stay is by showing the ambition that matches theirs. Newcastle have shown it is possible with good coaching, players having greater self belief and some astute player acquisition that the turnaround can be fast. We can achieve that too and having the right set up behind the scenes and a legitimate long term plan will help.
TThe important part we really shouldn't forget is the the impact of the right players isn't just their extra ability over who they replace. Kamara has clearly been a big upgrade in midfield but he's also made Luiz look a better player, Martinez, in my opinion, makes Mings a better player.
This is why I'm not against the manager being more cautious in who he brings in and focusing on a smaller number of options. It does risk us having gaps in the squad as we've seen but over time I'd hope it means that the players we do bring in are a better fit and increase the levels of the rest of the squad as well.
I suspect that's what happened with Moreno for example, Digne isn't a bad player but with us playing Buendia/Coutinho on the left and with Watkins drifting into space outside the right centre back I can see it being decided that we needed someone with the ability to underlap as well as overlap, depending on where the play is developing (and with the extra pace to see those opportunities and act on them). If that's the case then as we develop the interplay between them I'd expect to see Moreno popping up in an inside left position more often and getting more shots away than we've seen before, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him score a few goals before the summer by doing that.
I think Emery sees Moreno as an option for wide midfield if we need to push the game and he has brought him in for this as much as fullback.
Yep, and when we need to counter a progressive full back like Alexander Arnold it could prove really useful too.
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That’s the transition. We need to keep the best first team players at the club. And the next best, they can still contribute in what is now very much a squad game. The 5 subs rule as much as I’m not a fan does allow for more players to contribute. But there are easily 3 or 4 players who should not be regular and need to be upgraded by players of the standard of Kamara or Emi Martinez. That’s the only way we can convince those players to stay is by showing the ambition that matches theirs. Newcastle have shown it is possible with good coaching, players having greater self belief and some astute player acquisition that the turnaround can be fast. We can achieve that too and having the right set up behind the scenes and a legitimate long term plan will help.
TThe important part we really shouldn't forget is the the impact of the right players isn't just their extra ability over who they replace. Kamara has clearly been a big upgrade in midfield but he's also made Luiz look a better player, Martinez, in my opinion, makes Mings a better player.
This is why I'm not against the manager being more cautious in who he brings in and focusing on a smaller number of options. It does risk us having gaps in the squad as we've seen but over time I'd hope it means that the players we do bring in are a better fit and increase the levels of the rest of the squad as well.
I suspect that's what happened with Moreno for example, Digne isn't a bad player but with us playing Buendia/Coutinho on the left and with Watkins drifting into space outside the right centre back I can see it being decided that we needed someone with the ability to underlap as well as overlap, depending on where the play is developing (and with the extra pace to see those opportunities and act on them). If that's the case then as we develop the interplay between them I'd expect to see Moreno popping up in an inside left position more often and getting more shots away than we've seen before, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him score a few goals before the summer by doing that.
I think Emery sees Moreno as an option for wide midfield if we need to push the game and he has brought him in for this as much as fullback.
Yep, and when we need to counter a progressive full back like Alexander Arnold it could prove really useful too.
This could also be very true, versatility is something Emery seems to really like in his players.
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The gaffer
“If we didn’t have the possibility to sign a player to improve the team, we were sure that we wouldn’t do it.
“I am so happy because I think we have players with big commitment, they are showing us their performance.”
On Bert
I know him, I was following him when he was at Lyon and when he arrived here, he was an important player.
“His commitment is very good, he pushed to come back here and help us.”
Thats encouraging.
Emery just is so positive its quite wonderful!
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5.5/10
A decent striker and we'd probably have been set. I also like Sanson and would like him to have got a run at some stage.
Similar thoughts but 6/10 for me as we've trimmed the squad.
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As I recall it, Nigel Spink would roll the ball to Platt, Platt would move it on to Paul McGrath, who would play it on to Tony Daley, Daley would then proceed down the wing - a bit like a torpedo - and put the ball up in the air for Tony Cascarino.
We played at Palace away I think it might have been 88-89. Anyway it was a shit game that we lost 1-0. In fact now I think of it it might have been in the promotion season. I just remember that song being sung by one bloke and he replaced all the other players names with David Platt. So Platt knocked it up to Platty etc etc. it was just stupid but funny.
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The only head scratcher, for me, is letting Cam go on loan AND selling Ings. I don't understand that decision making process to any degree. We have cover across the defence, with Carlos coming back to fitness we have plenty of cover behond him. Our CMs could be stronger with the Guendozi effect. I just don't feel we are cohesive in the final 3rd of the pitch, too narrow, too slow...
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I think Archer is viewed as similar to Watkins and that Watkins is the starter. Getting him minutes every week is therefore a good thing for him and us.
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Looking forward when does the summer transfer window thread come about for discussion. Villa are expecting an extremely busy summer according to Purslow and one which we all anticipate as exciting and strong.
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*looks into crystal ball* "I can't believe the transfer window shuts tomorrow and all we've done is loaned Archer out again."
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Great to read Toronto's comments on the Villa-Bradford City game back in 1988.
I remember the feeling of relief at the end of the game as the second half had been very tense. It shouldn't have been like this, as we had had several chances to score in the first half but had missed out. Unusually, I watched the game from the Trinity Road Stand and at the final whistle, got up from my seat. As I did so, I didn't notice that my keys had fallen out of my pocket and onto the floor.
A fellow Villa fan kindly pointed this out to me and I retrieved the keys, thinking to myself, "What a nice man!" The same chap then looked over at the North Stand where the Bradford fans were situated and gave them an enormous v-sign on his way out.
Oh well, he was decent enough with me!
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Just read on the BBC sport page - Barcelona director of football Mateu Alemany has rejected an offer to take up a similar role at Aston Villa.(Marca - in Spanish)
I wonder if Lange has been told his time is up at the end of the season.
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I hope so, he's out of his depth.
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Villa and Forest supposedly monitoring Hull's left sided centre-half, Jacob Greaves.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11802915/Aston-Villa-Nottingham-Forest-monitor-Hull-defender-Jacob-Greaves.html
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Villa and Forest supposedly monitoring Hull's left sided centre-half, Jacob Greaves.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11802915/Aston-Villa-Nottingham-Forest-monitor-Hull-defender-Jacob-Greaves.html
Nephew of Villa legend Andrew, I believe.
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Villa and Forest supposedly monitoring Hull's left sided centre-half, Jacob Greaves.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11802915/Aston-Villa-Nottingham-Forest-monitor-Hull-defender-Jacob-Greaves.html
Nephew of Villa legend Andrew, I believe.
Applause.
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Villa and Forest supposedly monitoring Hull's left sided centre-half, Jacob Greaves.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11802915/Aston-Villa-Nottingham-Forest-monitor-Hull-defender-Jacob-Greaves.html
Nephew of Villa legend Andrew, I believe.
Ah, the one that got away.
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It's now March. When do we start the summer window thread?
Or can we have an intermittent one and then bring about the one for summer in May?
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Let's enjoy spring - the dewy meadows, the rural foxes (not the urban ones), for a few weeks first.
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Sure. Shall we continue to discuss transfer rumours and suggestions here?
Or where?
It's going to be a busy summer.
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It's going to be a busy summer.
It certainly will be if it starts in March.
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Can I suggest Football Insider?
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There's always Time Wasters?
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There's always Time Wasters?
Is that the Emi Martinez thread?
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In 2021 I started it on 3rd April. After the clocks had gone forward. Although why FV doesn't want to lower himself to start threads is beyond my low grade intellect.
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It's actually pretty rare you see a snooker from the break.
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Let's enjoy spring - the dewy meadows, the rural foxes (not the urban ones), for a few weeks first.
a farmer friend of mine was telling me that at least 10 urban foxes have been released near and on his farm in the last 3 months.
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Maybe they're county lines foxes. Have they got any lamb's bread?
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He did say they are almost fearless when he approaches them! “ makes them easy to shoot” he said.
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In 2021 I started it on 3rd April. After the clocks had gone forward. Although why FV doesn't want to lower himself to start threads is beyond my low grade intellect.
Don't give them any ideas.
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There's always Time Wasters?
Is that the Emi Martinez thread?
:D
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There's always Time Wasters?
Is that the Emi Martinez thread?
Haha! If you're referring to the 'Emiliano Martinez - World Cup winner and officially best keeper in the world' thread, then no, it's far too funny. ;)
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It's now March. When do we start the summer window thread?
Or can we have an intermittent one and then bring about the one for summer in May?
We don't; we remain in permanent limbo watching you miss the easy brown.
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Autumn here now, so it's only 29c. Roll on Winter...
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Autumn here now, so it's only 29c. Roll on Winter...
I could go off someone you know! ;)
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Looking forward when does the summer transfer window thread come about for discussion. Villa are expecting an extremely busy summer according to Purslow and one which we all anticipate as exciting and strong.
Feel free to promote the 95 players that we are not going to sign on here.
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Looking forward when does the summer transfer window thread come about for discussion. Villa are expecting an extremely busy summer according to Purslow and one which we all anticipate as exciting and strong.
Feel free to promote the 95 players that we are not going to sign on here.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/11-players-aston-villa-nearly-signed-and-who-they-got-instead/
It's been said Villa tried to sign Alan Shearer?! Michael Owen,
Frank Lampard, and Robert Carlos?!!! At one time or another over the premier league years.
Is there any more information on those and how accurate this source is?
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This fine fanzine in it's print format used to run a series called "they nearly played for Villa", Hans Krankl was the one that sticks in my mind
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Wes Hoolahan was one that got away. I remember the reporting of his transfer request, and Norwich still wouldn't let him go.
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This fine fanzine in it's print format used to run a series called "they nearly played for Villa", Hans Krankl was the one that sticks in my mind
That sounds excellent idea for a thread. Fascinating how close players are to joining clubs.
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I recall when Mac tipped us off we were signing Klose.
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Wes Hoolahan was one that got away. I remember the reporting of his transfer request, and Norwich still wouldn't let him go.
I also remember he then scored against us while all this was going on, and did not celebrate.
Remarkable.
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It's been said Villa tried to sign Alan Shearer?! Michael Owen,
Frank Lampard, and Robert Carlos?!!! At one time or another over the premier league years.
Is there any more information on those and how accurate this source is?
Definitely remember the Lampard talk at the the time but Les Ferdinand is the one that springs to mind for me.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11601534/les-ferdinand-on-aston-villas-ridiculous-offer-kevin-keegan-and-newcastle
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This fine fanzine in it's print format used to run a series called "they nearly played for Villa", Hans Krankl was the one that sticks in my mind
I can still see the back page of the Evening Mail when it was first reported. He was the real deal, proper goal machine and a full beard to match. Didn't he instead end up at Barca scoring 36 goals in 40 matches? Not sure what went wrong for him thereafter, maybe injury but he ended up on loan during his second season. We had to wait two years to get our own bearded centre forward and it was worth the wait. Thankfully it wasn't Mick Ferguson.
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It's been said Villa tried to sign Alan Shearer?! Michael Owen,
Frank Lampard, and Robert Carlos?!!! At one time or another over the premier league years.
Is there any more information on those and how accurate this source is?
Definitely remember the Lampard talk at the the time but Les Ferdinand is the one that springs to mind for me.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11601534/les-ferdinand-on-aston-villas-ridiculous-offer-kevin-keegan-and-newcastle
Around the same time it said on Midlands Today that we were going to sign Danny Blind on a free/Bosman. I got quite excited about that one (and Ferdinand).
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I met Christian Vieri on top of the Empire State Building (he’d recently signed for Inter Milan, possibly as a world record fee, and was wearing their training kit, the tight bastard), he confirmed that Villa had tried to sign him and that he would’ve joined. I didn’t pester him enough to find out how the deal fell through.
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Looking forward when does the summer transfer window thread come about for discussion. Villa are expecting an extremely busy summer according to Purslow and one which we all anticipate as exciting and strong.
Feel free to promote the 95 players that we are not going to sign on here.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/11-players-aston-villa-nearly-signed-and-who-they-got-instead/
It's been said Villa tried to sign Alan Shearer?! Michael Owen,
Frank Lampard, and Robert Carlos?!!! At one time or another over the premier league years.
Is there any more information on those and how accurate this source is?
I suspect it was probably a case of Doug sticking his head in the general office around season ticket renewal and asking for a name before it was leaked to the press. Cynic that I am.
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To add to the list: Juninho, Benni McCarthy and, from my vague recollection, David Swindlehurst.
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To add to the list: Juninho, Benni McCarthy and, from my vague recollection, David Swindlehurst.
You've made that last one up surely?
I remember Sir Graham wanting Lineker but Doug said something about us not being able to make a signing for two years if we did.
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Thinking about it Swindlehurst was probably just a passing interest from Tony Barton but I remember it being mentioned on local news.
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Remember all of those, but it was Robbie Keane that I think would have made a huge difference to us at the time.
Instead he went to. Coventry!!!
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Krankl scored 392 club goals and 34 in 69 for the national team. Phenomenal figures.
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To add to the list: Juninho, Benni McCarthy and, from my vague recollection, David Swindlehurst.
You've made that last one up surely?
I remember Sir Graham wanting Lineker but Doug said something about us not being able to make a signing for two years if we did.
Thinking about it signing Lineker in that case would have meant not signing Cascarino and then having two England players at the Italia 90 World Cup. Doug's shortsighted foresight again!
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To add to the list: Juninho, Benni McCarthy and, from my vague recollection, David Swindlehurst.
You've made that last one up surely?
I remember Sir Graham wanting Lineker but Doug said something about us not being able to make a signing for two years if we did.
Thinking about it signing Lineker in that case would have meant not signing Cascarino and then having two England players at the Italia 90 World Cup. Doug's shortsighted foresight again!
I remember the talk was something like a £4m deal, which even with Doug's parsimony was a fuckload of money at that time
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I met Christian Vieri on top of the Empire State Building (he’d recently signed for Inter Milan, possibly as a world record fee, and was wearing their training kit, the tight bastard), he confirmed that Villa had tried to sign him and that he would’ve joined. I didn’t pester him enough to find out how the deal fell through.
I'd have been tempted to throw him off.
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I met Christian Vieri on top of the Empire State Building (he’d recently signed for Inter Milan, possibly as a world record fee, and was wearing their training kit, the tight bastard), he confirmed that Villa had tried to sign him and that he would’ve joined. I didn’t pester him enough to find out how the deal fell through.
I'd have been tempted to throw him off.
Good luck with that, he was a unit.
I seem to recall he was a big cricket fan and fancied moving to England so he could play that as well.
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Ha, I was going to add that you'd probably need back-up to shift the bugger, alright.
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I met Christian Vieri on top of the Empire State Building (he’d recently signed for Inter Milan, possibly as a world record fee, and was wearing their training kit, the tight bastard), he confirmed that Villa had tried to sign him and that he would’ve joined. I didn’t pester him enough to find out how the deal fell through.
I'd have been tempted to throw him off.
Good luck with that, he was a unit.
I seem to recall he was a big cricket fan and fancied moving to England so he could play that as well.
He was actually Australian, wasn't he?
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He grew up in Australia, he's got a really good Aussie Italian accent.
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It's been said Villa tried to sign Alan Shearer?! Michael Owen,
Frank Lampard, and Robert Carlos?!!! At one time or another over the premier league years.
Is there any more information on those and how accurate this source is?
Definitely remember the Lampard talk at the the time but Les Ferdinand is the one that springs to mind for me.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11601534/les-ferdinand-on-aston-villas-ridiculous-offer-kevin-keegan-and-newcastle
The article got the year wrong in which we tried to sign Les. It would have been summer 1995, not the following year.
And considering that Doug was ready to throw as much cash as Ferdinand wanted at him, I wonder did that money then get spent on Savo (on half the wages/transfer fee). I also wonder how a Yorke/Ferdinand partnership would have looked like and whether it would have propelled us even higher in 95/96.
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It's been said Villa tried to sign Alan Shearer?! Michael Owen,
Frank Lampard, and Robert Carlos?!!! At one time or another over the premier league years.
Is there any more information on those and how accurate this source is?
Definitely remember the Lampard talk at the the time but Les Ferdinand is the one that springs to mind for me.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11601534/les-ferdinand-on-aston-villas-ridiculous-offer-kevin-keegan-and-newcastle
The article got the year wrong in which we tried to sign Les. It would have been summer 1995, not the following year.
And considering that Doug was ready to throw as much cash as Ferdinand wanted at him, I wonder did that money then get spent on Savo (on half the wages/transfer fee). I also wonder how a Yorke/Ferdinand partnership would have looked like and whether it would have propelled us even higher in 95/96.
As Brian said around the time, that signing would've spunked our budget and we wouldn't have signed Draper and Southgate, so although he was a wonderful striker we may not have been the force we turned out to be.
Ferdinand and Yorke though would've have been pretty lethal.
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A bit wreckless then, considering Draper and Southgate were the spine of the team that season.
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The only thing I remember of nearly signings was Dougs list of potential strikers that was leaked on the back of the papers. Nobody with half a brain would ever have been gullible enough to believe any of them. Me on the other hand? I immediately started editting Veiri and Shevchenko into my Pro Evolution Soccer Villa squads.
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To add to the list: Juninho, Benni McCarthy and, from my vague recollection, David Swindlehurst.
You've made that last one up surely?
I remember Sir Graham wanting Lineker but Doug said something about us not being able to make a signing for two years if we did.
Thinking about it signing Lineker in that case would have meant not signing Cascarino and then having two England players at the Italia 90 World Cup. Doug's shortsighted foresight again!
I remember the talk was something like a £4m deal, which even with Doug's parsimony was a fuckload of money at that time
I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek. I can't quite remember the timeline of the summer of 1989 but signing Lineker may have meant no Paul McGrath or Kent Neilsen either. Slightly ironically we signed very few players after that summer until BFR came in two years later - Cascarino, Cox and Penrice are the only ones which come to mind easily.
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Roberto Firmino is available on a free in the summer.
I think he's the sort of quality professional and an intelligent player. We should look to get in.
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No.
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No
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Roberto Firmino is available on a free in the summer.
I think he's the sort of quality professional and an intelligent player. We should look to get in.
No thanks, he's too old and he's got a worse injury record than the Russian army.
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I rate Firmino massively, I think he's been massively underrated for Liverpool and trying to replace him has played a big part in them going backwards. His versatility was a huge part of why Mane and Salah were able to play such a high line. He plays on the half turn a lot like the best Defensive Midfielders but does it 40-50 yards up the pitch, it's a weird sort of targetman role but based on intelligence, movement and quick passing rather than strength, height and aerial ability.
However he's too old and has had too many injuries in the last 18months. A player like him would be great though because it adds a lot of options for attacking play.
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Yes from me for Firmino
Quality player would fit into our front three easily and improve prove it no end, an actual technically good player
He’s 31 not 35, some of you guys are off your heads
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Yes from me for Firmino
Quality player would fit into our front three easily and improve prove it no end, an actual technically good player
He’s 31 not 35, some of you guys are off your heads
He's had 6-7 different injuries in the last 2 years and missed about 30 games as a result. If he was early 20s you might take the risk with that record but at 31 he's looking like a guy who will play 20-25 matches a season for a year or 2 before either stepping down to a loer level or hanging up his boots.
As I say I'm a massive fan and think he's been one of the best attackers in the league for years but it's a massive risk that I just don't think we can afford to take.
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A 23/24 year-old version would be a great signing.
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Yes from me for Firmino
Quality player would fit into our front three easily and improve prove it no end, an actual technically good player
He’s 31 not 35, some of you guys are off your heads
Thank you JE
Exactly! Would be a great addition
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Roberto Firmino is available on a free in the summer.
I think he's the sort of quality professional and an intelligent player. We should look to get in.
No thanks, he's too old and he's got a worse injury record than the Russian army.
It's a definte no from as well and even ignoring the teeth, it's still a no.
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I would also say Kante of chelsea, who is contract expiry.
They are proven players who add bit of quality.
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I would also say Kante of chelsea, who is contract expiry.
They are proven players who add bit of quality.
Yes there is a space in our treatment room.
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In 2021 I started it on 3rd April. After the clocks had gone forward. Although why FV doesn't want to lower himself to start threads is beyond my low grade intellect.
Thank You.
But if we hear any signings coming in on a free or an agreed transfer before then maybe we can begin.
It's going to be a busy summer.
I think up to 5 new additions.
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Yes from me for Firmino
Quality player would fit into our front three easily and improve prove it no end, an actual technically good player
He’s 31 not 35, some of you guys are off your heads
Thank you JE
Exactly! Would be a great addition
Your welcome
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I would also say Kante of chelsea, who is contract expiry.
They are proven players who add bit of quality.
Yes there is a space in our treatment room.
So that's no to Kalvin Phillips aswell?
Take him on loan next season for example.
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I must admit I’d take Firmino.
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Roberto Firmino is available on a free in the summer.
I think he's the sort of quality professional and an intelligent player. We should look to get in.
No thanks, he's too old and he's got a worse injury record than the Russian army.
It's a definte no from as well and even ignoring the teeth, it's still a no.
Whiter than a Brexit rally.
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A 23/24 year-old version would be a great signing.
Aye, the Firmino at Hoffenheim - whoever fits that sort of profile now.
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Roberto Firmino is available on a free in the summer.
I think he's the sort of quality professional and an intelligent player. We should look to get in.
No thanks, he's too old and he's got a worse injury record than the Russian army.
It's a definte no from as well and even ignoring the teeth, it's still a no.
Whiter than a Brexit rally.
That's a bit harsh on Sol Campbell.
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Nah to Firmino. It'll be like signing another Coutinho, and that's already proving to be like buying a vintage sports car: sometimes all the money and the fixing seems worth it when you're barrelling along at 150 with the wind in your hair. Will you get to do it every weekend? Probably not.
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A 23/24 year-old version would be a great signing.
Aye, the Firmino at Hoffenheim - whoever fits that sort of profile now.
Probably that Leon Bailey guy at Leverkusen was the two-years-ago version.
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https://www.fichajes.net/noticias/tres-equipos-premier-quieren-estrella-flamengo-20230302.html
El Aston Villa es el principal interesado en el fichaje de Pedro, al que acudirá en el mercado de fichajes de verano. El equipo de Unai Emery baraja varias opciones para reforzar el ataque, con varios jugadores de LaLiga en la lista, a la que se une Pedro
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El Aston Villa es el principal interesado en el fichaje de Pedro, al que acudirá en el mercado de fichajes de verano. El equipo de Unai Emery baraja varias opciones para reforzar el ataque, con varios jugadores de LaLiga en la lista, a la que se une Pedro
Pedro Guilherme Santos has a decent scoring record after Flamengo signed him from Fiorentina in 2020. His initials are PWS so sign him up.
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https://www.fichajes.net/noticias/tres-equipos-premier-quieren-estrella-flamengo-20230302.html
El Aston Villa es el principal interesado en el fichaje de Pedro, al que acudirá en el mercado de fichajes de verano. El equipo de Unai Emery baraja varias opciones para reforzar el ataque, con varios jugadores de LaLiga en la lista, a la que se une Pedro
Pedro Guilherme Abreu Dos Santos, better known as Pedro, is in the mouth of several teams in England. The 10 goals and 2 assists he has achieved this season in just 10 games have set off the alarms of three British teams. Flamengo's Brazilian striker, valued at 20 million euros, could end up leaving at the end of the season. With a contract until 2027, the price of the 25-year-old player could easily be around 40 million euros.
Aston Villa is the main interested in Pedro's signing, which he will attend in the summer transfer market. Unai Emery's team shuffles several options to reinforce the attack, with several LaLiga players on the list, which Pedro joins. On the other hand, according to Ekrem Konur, another of the interested parties is West Ham United, which could face the signing of the Brazilian battering ram after the sale of Declan Rice.
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In the mouth or on the lips?
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To add to the list: Juninho, Benni McCarthy and, from my vague recollection, David Swindlehurst.
Was Swidlehurst the unfortunate chap who died whilst playing? Or am I thinking of someone else.
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I would say yes to Firminho, I think he'd be a good addition to the squad even though he may not play every weekend. Klopp has indicated that he would rather stay which, assuming Jürgen isn't playing games, says a lot.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a CL team somewhere who might take him on...
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To add to the list: Juninho, Benni McCarthy and, from my vague recollection, David Swindlehurst.
Was Swidlehurst the unfortunate chap who died whilst playing? Or am I thinking of someone else.
Think it must be someone else. A quick search says he's still around.
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I would say yes to Firminho, I think he'd be a good addition to the squad even though he may not play every weekend. Klopp has indicated that he would rather stay which, assuming Jürgen isn't playing games, says a lot.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a CL team somewhere who might take him on...
I’d definitely have him and he’d fit in well to the way we play.
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I’m still convinced we will go for Guendouzi but I’d also put in a huge bid for Rice this summer. He’s surely going to be off and I’m not too convinced any of the Manchester teams or Arsenal will go for him, but Newcastle will for sure.
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Harvey Barnes career is kind of stagnating a bit, kind of player we could get I think.
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I would say yes to Firminho, I think he'd be a good addition to the squad even though he may not play every weekend. Klopp has indicated that he would rather stay which, assuming Jürgen isn't playing games, says a lot.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a CL team somewhere who might take him on...
PSG written all over him.
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I heard Benni McCarthy's name mentioned the other day out of the blue. Is he a coach at Yanited now? They were putting Rashford's form down to our one who got away.
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I heard Benni McCarthy's name mentioned the other day out of the blue. Is he a coach at Yanited now? They were putting Rashford's form down to our one who got away.
I seem to remember hearing he's teaching Rashford about heading. I remember thinking it was weirdly specific and not just calling him a 'striker coach'.
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People changed their minds about taking Firmino yet?
He would be great in our front line.
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Harvey Barnes career is kind of stagnating a bit, kind of player we could get I think.
Good shout.
If they bin Rodgers and we can snaffle one of their best players it weakens a potential rival going into next season. Should they stay up, ofc. Which is by no means a given.
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Local chap, Barnes, isn't he? Is he Baggies or Villa?
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Leicester probably as that's where his dad is from and where he was brought up.
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Harvey Barnes career is kind of stagnating a bit, kind of player we could get I think.
Good shout.
If they bin Rodgers and we can snaffle one of their best players it weakens a potential rival going into next season. Should they stay up, ofc. Which is by no means a given.
Barnes on the left and Brennan Johnson on the right with Firmino on a free to add as central option would be 3 great additions to the forward line but I suspect we'll be after more Spanish players.
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Local chap, Barnes, isn't he? Is he Baggies or Villa?
Local if you live in Leicester. He grew up in Countesthorpe.
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Harvey Barnes career is kind of stagnating a bit, kind of player we could get I think.
Good shout.
If they bin Rodgers and we can snaffle one of their best players it weakens a potential rival going into next season. Should they stay up, ofc. Which is by no means a given.
Barnes on the left and Brennan Johnson on the right with Firmino on a free to add as central option would be 3 great additions to the forward line but I suspect we'll be after more Spanish players.
For the love of god, stop going on about Emery signing Spanish players.
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I’m still convinced we will go for Guendouzi but I’d also put in a huge bid for Rice this summer. He’s surely going to be off and I’m not too convinced any of the Manchester teams or Arsenal will go for him, but Newcastle will for sure.
I think Rice is a great player, but not with the English premium price. I also think he'd see it as a sideways move.
I wish we'd got Guendouzi. An extra few million would seem very sensible right now.
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Guendouzi is perfect for what we're doing here.
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Local chap, Barnes, isn't he? Is he Baggies or Villa?
Local if you live in Leicester. He grew up in Countesthorpe.
Countess who?!
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I’m still convinced we will go for Guendouzi but I’d also put in a huge bid for Rice this summer. He’s surely going to be off and I’m not too convinced any of the Manchester teams or Arsenal will go for him, but Newcastle will for sure.
I think Rice is a great player, but not with the English premium price. I also think he'd see it as a sideways move.
I wish we'd got Guendouzi. An extra few million would seem very sensible right now.
I’m sure we will get him, it sounded like they wouldn’t sell until the summer.
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I’m still convinced we will go for Guendouzi but I’d also put in a huge bid for Rice this summer. He’s surely going to be off and I’m not too convinced any of the Manchester teams or Arsenal will go for him, but Newcastle will for sure.
I think Rice is a great player, but not with the English premium price. I also think he'd see it as a sideways move.
I wish we'd got Guendouzi. An extra few million would seem very sensible right now.
I’m sure we will get him, it sounded like they wouldn’t sell until the summer.
We didn't even make an offer. They didn't have to try particularly hard to keep him.
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Always thought Barnes would have been ideal replacement for Jack but they were flying high at the time - top 5x2 + FA Cup so would have been hard to prize
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I’m still convinced we will go for Guendouzi but I’d also put in a huge bid for Rice this summer. He’s surely going to be off and I’m not too convinced any of the Manchester teams or Arsenal will go for him, but Newcastle will for sure.
I think Rice is a great player, but not with the English premium price. I also think he'd see it as a sideways move.
I wish we'd got Guendouzi. An extra few million would seem very sensible right now.
I’m sure we will get him, it sounded like they wouldn’t sell until the summer.
We didn't even make an offer. They didn't have to try particularly hard to keep him.
Just a hunch but I can see it being announced with Marseille thanking us for how we conducted the negotiations i.e. we left him alone so they could make their own plans.
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To add to the list: Juninho, Benni McCarthy and, from my vague recollection, David Swindlehurst.
Was Swidlehurst the unfortunate chap who died whilst playing? Or am I thinking of someone else.
A google suggests that the fella I was thinking of was David Longhurst who died playing for York City.
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I’m still convinced we will go for Guendouzi but I’d also put in a huge bid for Rice this summer. He’s surely going to be off and I’m not too convinced any of the Manchester teams or Arsenal will go for him, but Newcastle will for sure.
I think Rice is a great player, but not with the English premium price. I also think he'd see it as a sideways move.
I wish we'd got Guendouzi. An extra few million would seem very sensible right now.
I’m sure we will get him, it sounded like they wouldn’t sell until the summer.
We didn't even make an offer. They didn't have to try particularly hard to keep him.
Just a hunch but I can see it being announced with Marseille thanking us for how we conducted the negotiations i.e. we left him alone so they could make their own plans.
That’s my thoughts too.
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I’m still convinced we will go for Guendouzi but I’d also put in a huge bid for Rice this summer. He’s surely going to be off and I’m not too convinced any of the Manchester teams or Arsenal will go for him, but Newcastle will for sure.
I think Rice is a great player, but not with the English premium price. I also think he'd see it as a sideways move.
I wish we'd got Guendouzi. An extra few million would seem very sensible right now.
I’m sure we will get him, it sounded like they wouldn’t sell until the summer.
We didn't even make an offer. They didn't have to try particularly hard to keep him.
Just a hunch but I can see it being announced with Marseille thanking us for how we conducted the negotiations i.e. we left him alone so they could make their own plans.
I get the impression that is exactly how we want to do business. With the youth players we've signed it's pretty much inevitable that the selling club praises our approach afterwards (other than the baggies and rangers but the former aren't bitter birds by mistake and the latter were still sulking that their manager jumped ship with barely a thought). Everyone knows that some clubs act like wankers and do their business in shitty ways (such as Man City with Grealish) so I'd like to think we're better than that, which is why so many transfers go from a vague rumour to announcement so quickly and things like this happen.
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ITK Gregg Evans says 100% going Big on a Forward in the summer.
He also says Martinez is staying.
If he gets either wrong I'll be happy to admit he's not ITK.
But I suspect Gregg will be proved right.
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ITK Gregg Evans says 100% going Big on a Forward in the summer.
He also says Martinez is staying.
If he gets either wrong I'll be happy to admit he's not ITK.
But I suspect Gregg will be proved right.
Gregg isn't an ITK. Do you really that much of a stretch in March for any journalist to report Villa are going after x position?
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Neither of those predictions require any amount of ITK.
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Neither of those predictions require any amount of ITK.
And if someone truly is this mythical ITK creature then I imagine they are going around spouting anything on Twitter.
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ITK Gregg Evans says 100% going Big on a Forward in the summer.
He also says Martinez is staying.
If he gets either wrong I'll be happy to admit he's not ITK.
But I suspect Gregg will be proved right.
Why do you believe all this stuff? Or rather, why do you post this stuff claiming it to be true and ITK?
You've no idea, nobody does. Though we'd clearly all suspect it to be true anyway.
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Everyone knows that some clubs act like wankers and do their business in shitty ways (such as Man City with Grealish)
I might be forgetting something blindingly obvious, but did they really do anything bad? Apart from taking our best player from us once again, obviously.
He was allowed to leave if a club offered a certain price. They offered it. He left. Doesn't seem like they did anything the really shouldn't have.
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Everyone knows that some clubs act like wankers and do their business in shitty ways (such as Man City with Grealish)
I might be forgetting something really obvious, but did they really do anything bad? Apart from taking our best player from us once again, obviously.
He was allowed to leave if a club offered a certain price. They offered it. He left. Doesn't seem like they did anything the really shouldn't have.
I suppose it was talking to a player under contract behind our backs to set up the deal. Suggestions (if you believe it) of texts between Jack and Pep. That they offered the release clause number so that wasn't the issue, but they did so it appears through Grealish and his agent versus through the club.
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The thing with those 2 in particular is:
Forward:
We were heavily rumoured to be after Williams in January.
We sold an established striker and didn't really replace him.
No one seems convinced that Bailey works as a 2nd striker (Emery was quoted as saying he's not sure what his best position is).
Duran would probably benefit from a loan for half a season.
Martinez:
He's said he loves it at the club.
He's said winning something with Villa is a challenge he wants to take on.
There's no indication that there is a release clause in his contract.
There are only a handful of clubs in the world able to pay the £75m+ we'd be asking for the best goalkeeper in the world.
Predicting we'll sign a striker and martinez will stay isn't ITK, it's basic deduction from established facts. Most people on this site could make those same predictions, but wouldn't claim any special status as a result.
I have no ITK but my predictions for the summer:
One of Bailey or Buendia will be sold.
Chambers will be sold.
Olsen will be sold.
We will sign:
1-2 forwards/wingers
1 centre mid
1 centre back
1 goalkeeper
We may also see Digne sold and replaced but I'd say this is 50/50.
we will also see players like AJ, Tim, Cam and KKH get game time during pre-season and how they go will determine how involved they are next year. I wouldn't be surprised if all of them are around the first team squad next season.
All of that is guesswork but I reckon most people will agree with most of it and most of it will be true, because it's really fucking obvious.
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ITK paul_e!
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Everyone knows that some clubs act like wankers and do their business in shitty ways (such as Man City with Grealish)
I might be forgetting something really obvious, but did they really do anything bad? Apart from taking our best player from us once again, obviously.
He was allowed to leave if a club offered a certain price. They offered it. He left. Doesn't seem like they did anything the really shouldn't have.
I suppose it was talking to a player under contract behind our backs to set up the deal. Suggestions (if you believe it) of texts between Jack and Pep. That they offered the release clause number so that wasn't the issue, but they did so it appears through Grealish and his agent versus through the club.
There was also 3 months of will they, won't they bullshit in the press before they finally made the offer deep into pre-season leaving us with a massive hole in our squad a week before the opener and turning our training camp into a fucking farewell party. I know teams can't control what's printed in the media but they obviously wanted to sign him and they knew we were only going to let him go if they met the clause so delaying it so long was clearly intentional to either spook us into letting him go under 'value' or make us risk fucking up our preparations.
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I’m still convinced we will go for Guendouzi but I’d also put in a huge bid for Rice this summer. He’s surely going to be off and I’m not too convinced any of the Manchester teams or Arsenal will go for him, but Newcastle will for sure.
I think Rice is a great player, but not with the English premium price. I also think he'd see it as a sideways move.
I wish we'd got Guendouzi. An extra few million would seem very sensible right now.
I’m sure we will get him, it sounded like they wouldn’t sell until the summer.
We didn't even make an offer. They didn't have to try particularly hard to keep him.
It could've gone something like
Lange: Can we have Guendouzi please?
Marseille guy: Non.
Lange: We'll give you a big pile of cash
Marseille guy: Non. En été.
Lange: OK, how much in the summer big man?
Marseille guy: X million euros
Lange: Sound.
I dunno, it's pure hypothetical stuff really, but it's not that hard to imagine a situation where Marseille don't want to sell a star player in the middle of the season, but have told us they're more open to the idea in the summer. In which case, there's no point us putting in an offer just yet.
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ITK Gregg Evans says 100% going Big on a Forward in the summer.
He also says Martinez is staying.
If he gets either wrong I'll be happy to admit he's not ITK.
But I suspect Gregg will be proved right.
Why do you believe all this stuff? Or rather, why do you post this stuff claiming it to be true and ITK?
You've no idea, nobody does. Though we'd clearly all suspect it to be true anyway.
I'm posting to share information with someone who has a connection to the club and is as close to some knowledge.
And I believe that if true, it lends credence to Evans. I include my own point of view in the post that to me he's creditable and has links.
That's all there is to it.
You have the same right to your beliefs and opinions differing or otherwise. So please as do I.
I choose to see him as an ITK and each individual can make up their own minds. Same with any ITK.
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ITK Gregg Evans says 100% going Big on a Forward in the summer.
He also says Martinez is staying.
If he gets either wrong I'll be happy to admit he's not ITK.
But I suspect Gregg will be proved right.
Why do you believe all this stuff? Or rather, why do you post this stuff claiming it to be true and ITK?
You've no idea, nobody does. Though we'd clearly all suspect it to be true anyway.
I think it's reasonable to assume that Gregg, or one of his Athletic colleagues, has been told by someone conected to the club that we are looking for an elite No 9 in the summer and that Martinez will be staying. He certainly seemed confident of this when discussing on the podcast. Of course as he acknowledges it doesn't mean we'll get one, but the way he discussed it it sounded much more confident than casual speculation.
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This was how ITK Gregg was on 31 Jan:
"Are there likely to be any surprises today? Not in the areas where Villa are looking to recruit. Again, the priority is a winger and/or striker. Don’t rule out an unexpected arrival in one of those positions, though."
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This was how ITK Gregg was on 31 Jan:
"Are there likely to be any surprises today? Not in the areas where Villa are looking to recruit. Again, the priority is a winger and/or striker. Don’t rule out an unexpected arrival in one of those positions, though."
Literally any one of us could have posted that.
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This was how ITK Gregg was on 31 Jan:
"Are there likely to be any surprises today? Not in the areas where Villa are looking to recruit. Again, the priority is a winger and/or striker. Don’t rule out an unexpected arrival in one of those positions, though."
Yes that's clearly nonsense. I'm not one to beat the drum for Gregg Evans, I've pointed out before I think he's quite a limited journalist. But there's a difference between hearing 'we're going to try to go big for a striker in the summer' and having indepth knowledge of individual transactions. Given who he works for I think the comments are plausible, if not a particularly big stretch.
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I have no ITK but my predictions for the summer:
One of Bailey or Buendia will be sold.
Chambers will be sold.
Olsen will be sold.
We will sign:
1-2 forwards/wingers
1 centre mid
1 centre back
1 goalkeeper
I’d be gutted if we sold Buendia. He’s one of those players I love watching (plus he doesn’t appear to moan when on the bench). Him and Coutinho are more than enough ‘Tens” for the squad, so I’d hope that we move on Bailey and allocate big sums on replacing him.
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I have no ITK but my predictions for the summer:
One of Bailey or Buendia will be sold.
Chambers will be sold.
Olsen will be sold.
We will sign:
1-2 forwards/wingers
1 centre mid
1 centre back
1 goalkeeper
I’d be gutted if we sold Buendia. He’s one of those players I love watching (plus he doesn’t appear to moan when on the bench). Him and Coutinho are more than enough ‘Tens” for the squad, so I’d hope that we move on Bailey and allocate big sums on replacing him.
Plus players like Buendía will only benefit from a decent winger.
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Obviously it’s dependent on who is interested in whom, but surely Bailey is out the door long before Buendia?
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The Buendia thing is the most out there I was willing to go. I just think he's someone that we could replace and make a decent amount on and he might be someone worth sacrificing. I'd say the same about Kibsa as well but I think he'll be around for another year.
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The Buendia thing is the most out there I was willing to go. I just think he's someone that we could replace and make a decent amount on and he might be someone worth sacrificing. I'd say the same about Kibsa as well but I think he'll be around for another year.
I forgot we had Kibsa. As good as a new signing!
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The Buendia thing is the most out there I was willing to go. I just think he's someone that we could replace and make a decent amount on and he might be someone worth sacrificing. I'd say the same about Kibsa as well but I think he'll be around for another year.
I forgot we had Kibsa. As good as a new signing!
Feck, Konsa for people with working thumbs.
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I have an inkling that Martinez will stay. He'd go if the right offer came in, as they all would, but his value to Villa is huge, he's on a long contract and provided there's no release clause, I don't see anyone paying it.
If the number isn't met we don't buckle (Barry to Liverpool and Grealish to Spurs come to mind). Which is all you can ask for in this market really. We could see a bit of that with Emi this summer.
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I have an inkling that Martinez will stay. He'd go if the right offer came in, as they all would, but his value to Villa is huge, he's on a long contract and provided there's no release clause, I don't see anyone paying it.
If the number isn't met we don't buckle (Barry to Liverpool and Grealish to Spurs come to mind). Which is all you can ask for in this market really. We could see a bit of that with Emi this summer.
It's also an unusual position. It's not like a centre-forward where there might be a bit of rotation, and you have four excellent options for two starting places. Goalkeepers play every single game, if fit.
So which team, at the level he would play, is in the market for a number one right now? It has to be a team in the Champions League, with title aspirations, and that would also give him the undisputed number one shirt.
Man Utd could be a maybe if De Gea doesn't renew his contract. Neuer will be 37 this summer, so Bayern could also be on that list (but they would have to smash their transfer record to get him). Realistically, the list of teams who could afford him AND give him the platform he'd need to consider moving just isn't very long at all.
If we were still in a relegation fight, I could see him wanting to simply join a "better" team. But considering where we are right now, and our trajectory, it would have to be to one of half a dozen clubs in world football, and I don't see any of them coming in for him.
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Neuer will be 37 this summer, so Bayern could also be on that list (but they would have to smash their transfer record to get him).
They also signed the second best Bundesliga goalkeeper two months ago, in Yann Sommer.
Unless we were giving him away, they're not coming in for Emi.
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Napoli striker Victor Osimhen has been saying he wants to come and play in England:
"I'm working so hard to make sure that I achieve my dream of playing in the Premier League some day but like I said, it's a process and I just want to keep on this momentum and continue to do well"
That is the calibre of striker we will undoubtedly be searching for; securing him will be more difficult but not unattainable.
I'm all for attempting to get Osimhen after making offers for Felix and Darwin in the previous two windows they both are in the Premier league and now lets register interest and see what can happen for the top scorer of Serie A
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That is the calibre of striker we will undoubtedly be searching for; securing him will be more difficult but not unattainable.
Osimhen is 100% unattainable.
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That is the calibre of striker we will undoubtedly be searching for; securing him will be more difficult but not unattainable.
Osimhen is 100% unattainable.
Napoli paid €70m for him three years ago, and he's only got better since then. He plays for a team that could well win the league this year and is already certain to be in the champions league next season. The chances of him coming to us THIS summer, are somewhere between extremely slim, and none.
We should maybe be looking for whoever qualifies as the current version of the 21-year-old that Napoli bought for €70m three seasons ago having just finished outside the European places - rather than today's Osimhen, who is almost certainly going to go for more than we got for Joe, and to a team with champions league football.
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We should maybe be looking for whoever qualifies as the current version of the 21-year-old that Napoli bought for €70m three seasons ago having just finished outside the European places - rather than today's Osimhen, who is almost certainly going to go for more than we got for Joe, and to a team with champions league football.
Which is basically Jonathan David who Lille bought to replace him.
Moved from Belgium to Lille at the same age as Osimhen did, boasting a one-in-two scoring rate (as Osimhen did), which he then kept up at Lille (as Osimhen did).
Although he'd probably still be off to someone a bit shinier than the current version of us.
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We should maybe be looking for whoever qualifies as the current version of the 21-year-old that Napoli bought for €70m three seasons ago having just finished outside the European places - rather than today's Osimhen, who is almost certainly going to go for more than we got for Joe, and to a team with champions league football.
Which is basically Jonathan David who Lille bought to replace him.
Moved from Belgium to Lille at the same age as Osimhen did, boasting a one-in-two scoring rate (as Osimhen did), which he then kept up at Lille (as Osimhen did).
Although he'd probably still be off to someone a bit shinier than the current version of us.
Yes, he's precisely the sort we should be looking for. Unfortunately, the fact he's been at Lille for three years (unlike Osimhen who had one season there before his move) means we're likely to face more competition, including from teams in Europe, but I'd hope he's high on our shortlist.
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As Napoli will win the league and have a strong chance of winning the Champions League, I admit Osimhen is a tough acquisition.
Now, Emery understands Emile Smith Rowe, and I can see Villa after him him even if Arsenal wins the league.
Because Arsenal will look to get in more established players for next season and ESR could be available.
Would be a great fit here and of course we were close to signing him previously.
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As Napoli will win the league and have a strong chance of winning the Champions League, I admit Osimhen is a tough acquisition.
Now, Emery understands Emile Smith Rowe, and I can see Villa after him him even if Arsenal wins the league.
Because Arsenal will look to get in more established players for next season and ESR could be available.
Would be a great fit here and of course we were close to signing him previously.
Whose place would he take?
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As Napoli will win the league and have a strong chance of winning the Champions League, I admit Osimhen is a tough acquisition.
Now, Emery understands Emile Smith Rowe, and I can see Villa after him him even if Arsenal wins the league.
Because Arsenal will look to get in more established players for next season and ESR could be available.
Would be a great fit here and of course we were close to signing him previously.
Whose place would he take?
He could play in a number of spots, but he's another player who would improve us if he was playing instead of Bailey. I think Footy's right, he'd be a good acquisition. I don't think we were close to signing him, but we definitely interested though.
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As Napoli will win the league and have a strong chance of winning the Champions League, I admit Osimhen is a tough acquisition.
Now, Emery understands Emile Smith Rowe, and I can see Villa after him him even if Arsenal wins the league.
Because Arsenal will look to get in more established players for next season and ESR could be available.
Would be a great fit here and of course we were close to signing him previously.
Whose place would he take?
The Buendia thing is the most out there I was willing to go. I just think he's someone that we could replace and make a decent amount on and he might be someone worth sacrificing. I'd say the same about Kibsa as well but I think he'll be around for another year.
He would compete with Buendía unless Paul E theory is correct he then would replace him.
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As Napoli will win the league and have a strong chance of winning the Champions League, I admit Osimhen is a tough acquisition.
Now, Emery understands Emile Smith Rowe, and I can see Villa after him him even if Arsenal wins the league.
Because Arsenal will look to get in more established players for next season and ESR could be available.
Would be a great fit here and of course we were close to signing him previously.
Whose place would he take?
He could play in a number of spots, but he's another player who would improve us if he was playing instead of Bailey. I think Footy's right, he'd be a good acquisition. I don't think we were close to signing him, but we definitely interested though.
I just recall the bid after bid and thought Arsenal were going to buckle if made the right amount.
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the bid after bid and thought Arsenal were going to buckle if made the right amount.
I seem to recall they were fairly adamant that he wasn't for sale under any circumstances. Certainly not for the amounts we offered, which were definitely a little bit on the Doug Ellis side.
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Sorry, who in the fuck thought we'd sign Osimhen? Are we in the habit of spending £150m on a single player? Did I miss something.
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Sorry, who in the fuck thought we'd sign Osimhen? Are we in the habit of spending £150m on a single player? Did I miss something.
you missed us qualifying for the champions league
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Think we should show some faith in Watkins and give him a new deal personally. It's the supporting cast behind him that needs to improve.
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As Napoli will win the league and have a strong chance of winning the Champions League, I admit Osimhen is a tough acquisition.
Now, Emery understands Emile Smith Rowe, and I can see Villa after him him even if Arsenal wins the league.
Because Arsenal will look to get in more established players for next season and ESR could be available.
Would be a great fit here and of course we were close to signing him previously.
Whose place would he take?
He could play in a number of spots, but he's another player who would improve us if he was playing instead of Bailey. I think Footy's right, he'd be a good acquisition. I don't think we were close to signing him, but we definitely interested though.
Smith-Rowe would definitely be a realistic option, he's fallen behind Martinelli, Odegaard and now Trossard, Emery gave him his debut and he'd fit well in either the left side position that Ramsey has had recently or in the 2nd striker role that Bailey and Buendia seem to both struggle in. I get the impression (from his previous clubs) that Emery likes a lot of his players to be able to play in a few different roles.
Osimhen is definitely not realistic. David would be good (as he would've been last summer when a few on here were talking about him) but I think there are a few other options worth looking at as well. I don't watch anything like as much football now as I did a few years back but I've seen a few clips of a guy at Montpellier who looks very good called Elye Wahi. Supposedly available for under £20m and has bene linked with a few CL clubs so he'd be one we'd have to gamble on now but he looks worth the risk.
I'd be tempted to have a gamble on Gio Reyna as well. He hasn't progressed as much as people expected and as such isn't playing regularly for Dortmund but he's still only 20 so there's plenty of time for him and he'd probably not be that expensive.
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Think we should show some faith in Watkins and give him a new deal personally. It's the supporting cast behind him that needs to improve.
I hope he keeps scoring until the end of the season so we can shift him in the summer for a decent wedge. No time for sentiment or blind faith unless you're prepared to waste another 20-30 years wishful thinking midtable-7th to 10th is the dream. Top strikers don't come cheap but IF we could cash in we can seriously upgrade. Will we? I very much doubt it but we'll live to regret it next season.
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Think we should show some faith in Watkins and give him a new deal personally. It's the supporting cast behind him that needs to improve.
I hope he keeps scoring until the end of the season so we can shift him in the summer for a decent wedge. No time for sentiment or blind faith unless you're prepared to waste another 20-30 years wishful thinking midtable-7th to 10th is the dream. Top strikers don't come cheap but IF we could cash in we can seriously upgrade. Will we? I very much doubt it but we'll live to regret it next season.
Why not seriously upgrade and keep a solid 10-12 goal a season striker as well?
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Think we should show some faith in Watkins and give him a new deal personally. It's the supporting cast behind him that needs to improve.
I hope he keeps scoring until the end of the season so we can shift him in the summer for a decent wedge. No time for sentiment or blind faith unless you're prepared to waste another 20-30 years wishful thinking midtable-7th to 10th is the dream. Top strikers don't come cheap but IF we could cash in we can seriously upgrade. Will we? I very much doubt it but we'll live to regret it next season.
Why not seriously upgrade and keep a solid 10-12 goal a season striker as well?
That’s what I’d advocate. A massive upgrade on Bailey. Ollie is great for the way the team play. Of course, I don’t know if Emery agrees with me, which is kinda what matters.
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Think we should show some faith in Watkins and give him a new deal personally. It's the supporting cast behind him that needs to improve.
I hope he keeps scoring until the end of the season so we can shift him in the summer for a decent wedge. No time for sentiment or blind faith unless you're prepared to waste another 20-30 years wishful thinking midtable-7th to 10th is the dream. Top strikers don't come cheap but IF we could cash in we can seriously upgrade. Will we? I very much doubt it but we'll live to regret it next season.
Why not seriously upgrade and keep a solid 10-12 goal a season striker as well?
A serious upgrade is going to be what, 70m-£80m? It's out of our league unless we can get £35-£40m for Watkins, assuming he carries on knocking them in. That's an amazing price given his performances in 2022. The other option is going cheaper but bringing in two not one but that will be a risk.
And then we have the cost of replacing Bailey.. I can't see Duran going out on loan in August unless it's to a Spanish/Portuguese side, youth, language and lack of experience limit his options. Then we have Archer who looks like he can play in a two but not leading the line, at least not every week. He's a bloody good footballer though, the type we should be developing not selling for what £10m-15m?
It's a massive summer, Dave and huge decisions need to be made. As I said above, there's no time for sentiment or blind faith, add to that, we need to get it right. I really hope they know what they're doing.
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Sadly I can see us selling Cam, with buy-back and sell-on clauses to soften the blow. I'd rather he be given a run of starts for us though.
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I think letting him go out on loan was a mistake, with our premiership position being safe it would have been the ideal time to give him some game time ( not just the last ten minutes ) to properly guage if he has what Emery needs.
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Think we should show some faith in Watkins and give him a new deal personally. It's the supporting cast behind him that needs to improve.
I hope he keeps scoring until the end of the season so we can shift him in the summer for a decent wedge. No time for sentiment or blind faith unless you're prepared to waste another 20-30 years wishful thinking midtable-7th to 10th is the dream. Top strikers don't come cheap but IF we could cash in we can seriously upgrade. Will we? I very much doubt it but we'll live to regret it next season.
I think any thought we can seriously upgrade on Watkins is naive. Firstly, there's this narrative across the MSM that many teams are looking for that iconic 20 guaranteed goal a season striker to be successful. Take Man City, was it Gundogan who was their top scorer with about 13 goals? They invest hugely in Haaland who has been brilliant but the team are arguably worse going forward. Ronaldo scored lots of goals but had a disastrous effect on the Man Utd team. Same for likes of WHU and Newcastle who invested hugely in strikers with good reputations but have all flopped so far. Sure we could possibly get Tammy back but would he make the team any better, I doubt it.
Watkins will never score 20 league goals a season but if he consistently hits 12-15, another 5 or so assists and is resilient enough to play 30 games a season that's more than good enough for me. His general play has improved a lot since Emery came in, or more importantly since Ings was potted. Duran and Archer in reserve and up front is not a priority for me this summer.
Bailey, Coutinho, Traore - I'd expect them all to go. Issues with physical and mental resilience with all three really and not delivering anywhere near consistently enough. Buendia needs to improve but I'd have a lot more faith in him. Aaron Ramsey and Tim Iroegbunam should be in our first team squad next season, if Tim is good enough then there's less of a need for the Donk. 2-3 quality additions and Carlos back fully fit is what we should be aiming for.
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Think we should show some faith in Watkins and give him a new deal personally. It's the supporting cast behind him that needs to improve.
I hope he keeps scoring until the end of the season so we can shift him in the summer for a decent wedge. No time for sentiment or blind faith unless you're prepared to waste another 20-30 years wishful thinking midtable-7th to 10th is the dream. Top strikers don't come cheap but IF we could cash in we can seriously upgrade. Will we? I very much doubt it but we'll live to regret it next season.
I think any thought we can seriously upgrade on Watkins is naive. Firstly, there's this narrative across the MSM that many teams are looking for that iconic 20 guaranteed goal a season striker to be successful. Take Man City, was it Gundogan who was their top scorer with about 13 goals? They invest hugely in Haaland who has been brilliant but the team are arguably worse going forward. Ronaldo scored lots of goals but had a disastrous effect on the Man Utd team. Same for likes of WHU and Newcastle who invested hugely in strikers with good reputations but have all flopped so far. Sure we could possibly get Tammy back but would he make the team any better, I doubt it.
Watkins will never score 20 league goals a season but if he consistently hits 12-15, another 5 or so assists and is resilient enough to play 30 games a season that's more than good enough for me. His general play has improved a lot since Emery came in, or more importantly since Ings was potted. Duran and Archer in reserve and up front is not a priority for me this summer.
Bailey, Coutinho, Traore - I'd expect them all to go. Issues with physical and mental resilience with all three really and not delivering anywhere near consistently enough. Buendia needs to improve but I'd have a lot more faith in him. Aaron Ramsey and Tim Iroegbunam should be in our first team squad next season, if Tim is good enough then there's less of a need for the Donk. 2-3 quality additions and Carlos back fully fit is what we should be aiming for.
I agree. I can't see us selling Ollie. He's been fantastic since Emery came to the club. Think it's quite plausible, given his improvement lately, that next season he'll be in the 15-20 goal range. Only needs a couple of runs like the one he's just been on, and the odd goal elsewhere. He's one I've more faith in to improve with better coaching. And as brontebilly has said pretty much, there's Archer-Ramsay A-Iroegbunam coming through and you'd hope at least one of those would start to make inroads in to the first team next season.
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It does demonstrate a ruthless streak that Ings started and played nearly an hour vs Leeds and then sold.
Interesting the next game was Southampton and perhaps there was a monetary clause if he appeared against them.
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It does demonstrate a ruthless streak that Ings started and played nearly an hour vs Leeds and then sold.
Interesting the next game was Southampton and perhaps there was a monetary clause if he appeared against them.
Oh god, another one of your mysterious fictitious clauses!
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It does demonstrate a ruthless streak that Ings started and played nearly an hour vs Leeds and then sold.
Interesting the next game was Southampton and perhaps there was a monetary clause if he appeared against them.
Oh god, another one of your mysterious fictitious clauses!
I am no expert in football law but I'd imagine clauses of that type, "we'll sell you him, but you can't use him against us" would be illegal.
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Definitely in the Premier League rules that you can't influence other teams' selections.
The only urgency in the Ings deal might have been West Ham putting the cash on the table and saying they had other targets if we didn't accept within a timeframe
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I'm not sure you can argue that such a clause would be a restraint of trade. I think it's more that no buyer would agree to that and knowing this, selling clubs would be unlikely to demand it.
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I'm not sure you can argue that such a clause would be a restraint of trade. I think it's more that no buyer would agree to that and knowing this, selling clubs would be unlikely to demand it.
It would be against the Premier League's "unsporting" rules.
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Footy-Vil's level of invention when it comes to these clauses is unrivalled
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His creativity knows no bounds!
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I thought it was common knowledge that Ings or Mings had to be sold because it's impossible to distinguish between the two names when said in Spanish. This led to tactical confusion with Mings thinking he had to find the attacker and Ings believing he was being told to give it to the nearest defender. This is why we will only be buying Spanish speakers except in goal when Scouse-Skandies are the exception that proves the rule agreed to by 83% of us... I mean me.
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Players can get all sorts of clauses.
I mean some players get clauses where they get the club to fly over their family or they can get flights back home to where the family live.
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I thought it was common knowledge that Ings or Mings had to be sold because it's impossible to distinguish between the two names when said in Spanish. This led to tactical confusion with Mings thinking he had to find the attacker and Ings believing he was being told to give it to the nearest defender. This is why we will only be buying Spanish speakers except in goal when Scouse-Skandies are the exception that proves the rule agreed to by 83% of us... I mean me.
That is pretty good SP! Good jesting.
I don't know what a Scouses Skandi is though?
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Players can get all sorts of clauses.
I mean some players get clauses where they get the club to fly over their family or they can get flights back home to where the family live.
You really think that they chuck in flights for people being paid tens of thousands per week?
Please stop making stuff up.
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Players can get all sorts of clauses.
I mean some players get clauses where they get the club to fly over their family or they can get flights back home to where the family live.
That's an entirely different thing and would just be part of their overall remuneration package.
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Players can get all sorts of clauses.
I mean some players get clauses where they get the club to fly over their family or they can get flights back home to where the family live.
You really think that they chuck in flights for people being paid tens of thousands per week?
Please stop making stuff up.
100% they do I heard it and popular with Brazilian players. Not saying Villa.
I think Jesus had such a clause as did/does Neymar
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It does demonstrate a ruthless streak that Ings started and played nearly an hour vs Leeds and then sold.
More than likely mate WHU put down an attractive offer and we took their hands off. Ings was anonymous in that game which probably proved to Emery we needed a different type of forward anyway. Brave decision as easiest thing to do would be to keep Ings until the summer.
Next big contract decisions coming up are on Watkins and McGinn. Watkins is a no brainer to extend for me. McGinn might attract some tempting offers in the summer. Personally I'd look to extend his deal. He's a Villa legend like Mings for starters, back to playing near his best under Emery and no reason he can't improve further. But club might look at likes of A Ramsey & Iroegbunam development, we will certainly be signing Guendouzi or similar type midfield player in the summer too. Is McGinn expendable if the right offer comes in? 29 later this year and those trips to Dublin can't be great for his hamstrings 😅
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Players can get all sorts of clauses.
I mean some players get clauses where they get the club to fly over their family or they can get flights back home to where the family live.
You really think that they chuck in flights for people being paid tens of thousands per week?
Please stop making stuff up.
100% they do I heard it and popular with Brazilian players. Not saying Villa.
I think Jesus had such a clause as did/does Neymar
How would you know that?
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Players can get all sorts of clauses.
I mean some players get clauses where they get the club to fly over their family or they can get flights back home to where the family live.
You really think that they chuck in flights for people being paid tens of thousands per week?
Please stop making stuff up.
100% they do I heard it and popular with Brazilian players. Not saying Villa.
I think Jesus had such a clause as did/does Neymar
How would you know that?
For goodness sake Footy, there weren't any planes 2000 years ago. Even if there were, I doubt Nazareth Town F.C. would have included such a thing in a contract.
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Players can get all sorts of clauses.
I mean some players get clauses where they get the club to fly over their family or they can get flights back home to where the family live.
You really think that they chuck in flights for people being paid tens of thousands per week?
Please stop making stuff up.
100% they do I heard it and popular with Brazilian players. Not saying Villa.
I think Jesus had such a clause as did/does Neymar
How would you know that?
For goodness sake Footy, there weren't any planes 2000 years ago. Even if there were, I doubt Nazareth Town F.C. would have included such a thing in a contract.
He didn't say anything about planes, just to fly family over, I'm imagining catapults and wings made from chicken feathers.
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They can walk like everyone else, and no moaning about a little bit of sea being in the way either. Bloody non-Messiahs and their sense of boat entitlement.
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Surely Jesus could just walk there and back, it's not like the seas and oceans would slow him down.
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Spanish outlet El Mundo revealed last year the stipulations Messi demanded to stay with Barcelona back in 2020, which included a private jet for his family to fly back to Argentina at Christmas, and a shared executive box at the Nou Camp for both his family and Luis Suarez’s.
“It amuses me. It is something very normal in any player. Suarez told Marca in September.
“If you check the contracts of any elite footballer, they should all have their box. I, for example, at Atletico Madrid, had mine; in Nacional, too."
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Spanish outlet El Mundo revealed last year the stipulations Messi demanded to stay with Barcelona back in 2020, which included a private jet for his family to fly back to Argentina at Christmas, and a shared executive box at the Nou Camp for both his family and Luis Suarez’s.
“It amuses me. It is something very normal in any player. Suarez told Marca in September.
“If you check the contracts of any elite footballer, they should all have their box. I, for example, at Atletico Madrid, had mine; in Nacional, too."
From Talksport...........:
The article headline: Ten of the strangest contract clauses in football – Firmino’s anti-Arsenal proviso and Prior’s sheep testicle deal but Suarez defended Messi over his leaked Barcelona demands
And Suarez defended the executive box he shared with Messi.
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We have gone from the ridiculous idea that Ings had a mysterious and ruthless not play West Ham Clause to the justification of this being Messi and other elite footballers having additional benefits. Total nonsense.
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We have gone from the ridiculous idea that Ings had a mysterious and ruthless not play West Ham Clause to the justification of this being Messi and other elite footballers having additional benefits. Total nonsense.
No it was that if Ings played against Southampton when at Villa we may have to pay extra in some sort of clause.
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We have gone from the ridiculous idea that Ings had a mysterious and ruthless not play West Ham Clause to the justification of this being Messi and other elite footballers having additional benefits. Total nonsense.
No it was that if Ings played against Southampton when at Villa we may have to pay extra in some sort of clause.
and it's still nonsense.
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We have gone from the ridiculous idea that Ings had a mysterious and ruthless not play West Ham Clause to the justification of this being Messi and other elite footballers having additional benefits. Total nonsense.
No it was that if Ings played against Southampton when at Villa we may have to pay extra in some sort of clause.
and it's still nonsense.
We all have our theories.
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That's not a theory, it's just bollocks
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We have gone from the ridiculous idea that Ings had a mysterious and ruthless not play West Ham Clause to the justification of this being Messi and other elite footballers having additional benefits. Total nonsense.
No it was that if Ings played against Southampton when at Villa we may have to pay extra in some sort of clause.
and it's still nonsense.
We all have our theories.
We do indeed, it's just that yours are always absolute fantasy world horseshit, and you deliver them as if they're factual truth.
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Not exactly but thats your view. I remember when Dean Smith said: ‘I don’t play it, I live in the real world not the fantasy world’
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Surely Jesus could just walk there and back, it's not like the seas and oceans would slow him down.
He had a hell of a cross on him apparently.
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Yawn
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Keep an eye out for Mikel Merino at Real Sociedad vs Man Utd tomorrow
A midfielder who is someone Villa have cast eyes on.
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Keep an eye out for Mikel Merino at Real Sociedad vs Man Utd tomorrow
A midfielder who is someone Villa have cast eyes on.
What if he pulls his wool over our eyes?
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Keep an eye out for Mikel Merino at Real Sociedad vs Man Utd tomorrow
A midfielder who is someone Villa have cast eyes on.
What if he pulls his wool over our eyes?
Be a case of wheres woolly?
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Some transfer rumours link Villa with 3 players all based in Spain:
Athletic Bilbao central defender Iñigo Martínez free transfer.
Las Palmas midfielder Alberto Moleiro
Sevilla striker Youssef En-Nesyri
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We all have our theories.
Exactly, even Einstein's weren't universally accepted initially.
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The prophet is never accepted in his home town.
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prophets are never welcomed in their hometown
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Keep an eye out for Mikel Merino at Real Sociedad vs Man Utd tomorrow
A midfielder who is someone Villa have cast eyes on.
Made a clerical error as Man Utd play Real Betis. However keep an eye on William Carvalho as there is talk of interest in this midfielder too.
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prophets are never welcomed in their hometown
A sage and a prophet.
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However keep an eye on William Carvalho as there is talk of interest in this midfielder too.
Also keep an eye on veteren left-winger and Islington MP Jeremy Corbyn as future leader of the Labour Party. September is my guess. This is 2015, right?
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prophets are never welcomed in their hometown
A sage and a prophet.
Sage and onion more like.
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Pablo Dybala would be an astute acquisition in the Summer
Chance for him to revive himself and the talk is he is available via releases clause for non Italian clubs set at €12 million.
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22 million ? I wish
According to Le10Sport, the French giants are warming to the idea of offloading the 23-year-old for the right fee, with Marseille currently valuing Guendouzi at just €25m (£22m), a price that could tempt Villa into action that would see Unai Emery reunite with the ex-Arsenal misfit.
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Being linked with Raphael Guerreiro, from Borussia Dortmund.
Apparently a left back, so if true Digne could be on his way
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Hope not, we've already got two 29 year old left backs, one more makes no sense.
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Let’s buy all the left backs.
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...and then go 2008 retro and play McGinn there.
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Let’s buy all the left backs.
The alternate universe MON. He can then put them all on the bench and play a CB or midfielder there.
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Let’s buy all the left backs.
Good call. Bring back Luna who kept his arms behind his back; ahead of his time.
Apart from those should be left back in the dressing room, obvs.
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Let’s buy all the left backs.
Good call. Bring back Luna who kept his arms behind his back; ahead of his time.
Apart from those should be left back in the dressing room, obvs.
I remember reading that Lambert used to go bat shit at him about that arms behind back thing.
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Let’s buy all the left backs.
Good call. Bring back Luna who kept his arms behind his back; ahead of his time.
Apart from those should be left back in the dressing room, obvs.
I remember reading that Lambert used to go bat shit at him about that arms behind back thing.
True dat.
They used to go batshit in the Doug Out.
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I see it looks like Mason Mount is off this summer. He’s an odd one, at times he looks fantastic at others just anonymous, especially at England level.
I bet he’s a sure cert to on Newcastle’s radar.
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I see it looks like Mason Mount is off this summer. He’s an odd one, at times he looks fantastic at others just anonymous, especially at England level.
I bet he’s a sure cert to on Newcastle’s radar.
I have never been totally convinced.
He is an OK 8 but crap number 10 and even worse when Southgate has pushed him wide.
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I’ve never understood why Southgate didn’t play Mount in the Euro final.
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I’ve never understood why Southgate didn’t play Mount in the Euro final.
I think he had a special role that day.
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I'd take Mount for a reasonable fee and wages.
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I'd take Mount for a reasonable fee and wages.
I think I can see a flaw in your plan.
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Mason Mount will not be leaving Chelsea for Aston Villa.
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He’ll end up at Liverpool
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Mount in an odd player. In the right system he’d be a great player but its hard to know exactly what formation that would be, and he’s not good enough to justify building a whole team around.
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Mason Mount will not be leaving Chelsea for Aston Villa.
Can you categorically assure us of that?
Please say that you can.
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Mason Mount will not be leaving Chelsea for Aston Villa.
Can you categorically assure us of that?
Please say that you can.
I genuinely can.
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He wants £200k a week, apparently.
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£200k 😂
Wouldn't pay him half.
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Actually, he's REJECTED £200k and fancies a bit more! He's probably got Southgate gently whispering in his ear telling him how valuable he is.
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Wrong thread.
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Spoke to my mate today who became the first Villa fan I think I’ve ever heard ask the question ‘do we even need to buy anyone in the summer?’
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Mason Mount will not be leaving Chelsea for Aston Villa.
Liverpool want him apparently. Newcastle mentioned aswell but seems they'll be all in on James Maddison.
Said it before but I think Brennan Johnson would be fantastic for how Emery is setting us up.
Can play inside or as CF and a pretty good finisher when he's one on one. He will surely leave Forest if they go down so that to me feels a really good target for upfront considering Ollie is established now as experienced premier league forward and Duran is very much a work in progress so we need that inbetween type and Johnson is developing very nicely indeed and still early 20s.
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Spoke to my mate today who became the first Villa fan I think I’ve ever heard ask the question ‘do we even need to buy anyone in the summer?’
People get a bit giddy and dizzy with a bit of success. I think we need 4 really excellent players to drive us on. I’m definitely keen to see how Emery incorporates some of these talented players out on loan back into things.
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Spoke to my mate today who became the first Villa fan I think I’ve ever heard ask the question ‘do we even need to buy anyone in the summer?’
Lulz. Did you tell him that he'd be more than welcome on H&V as the happiest-clapper that we could ever hope for?
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Spoke to my mate today who became the first Villa fan I think I’ve ever heard ask the question ‘do we even need to buy anyone in the summer?’
Lulz. Did you tell him that he'd be more than welcome on H&V as the happiest-clapper that we could ever hope for?
No. He can’t spell. We don’t need any more like that.
Oh, and he wanted Dyche as manager. I rest my case.
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Roberto Firmino is available on a free in the summer.
I think he's the sort of quality professional and an intelligent player. We should look to get in.
No thanks, he's too old and he's got a worse injury record than the Russian army.
And teeth that look like Pat Healy’s in There’s Something About Mary.
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Mason Mount will not be leaving Chelsea for Aston Villa.
Liverpool want him apparently. Newcastle mentioned aswell but seems they'll be all in on James Maddison.
Said it before but I think Brennan Johnson would be fantastic for how Emery is setting us up.
Can play inside or as CF and a pretty good finisher when he's one on one. He will surely leave Forest if they go down so that to me feels a really good target for upfront considering Ollie is established now as experienced premier league forward and Duran is very much a work in progress so we need that inbetween type and Johnson is developing very nicely indeed and still early 20s.
I don't rally rate that Johnson. He's alright but nothing special.
If we're haeding to the East Mids then Harvey Barnes is the one to get.
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Didn't realise Barnes was 25. Thought he was about 20/21.
I'd be happy with him. Raiding Leicester for one or two players would be great (Barnes and Maddison perhaps), they're much better than their league position suggests.
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Linked to Lukaku…
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I can’t imagine we would look at any player that cost Chelsea close to £100m about a year ago, who is almost 30 and is likely on £300k a week. This ain’t us grifting skint Barcelona for Coutinho.
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Linked to Lukaku…
Yep just read, seems hugely unrealistic, but if it was doable, even at 29, it would have to be a big yes.
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Lukaku? Good heavens no.
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I was reading recently that there is a huge difference between the Lukaku of a few years ago who beat us at VP on his own, and the perma crocked one now pulling in £200k a week. The Inter chairman was pretty scathing about his physical condition.
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If it was on loan and Chelsea paid a hefty chunk of his wages then maybe. Can't see it happening otherwise.
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I think Lukaku would be too much of a risk. Didn't set the world alight at Man U, and struggled at Chelsea. He's 30 in a couple of months, I can't imagine there's a single strand of truth in this.
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Yes he's got quality, but Lukaku hardly strikes me as the hard working team player that Emery will surely demand? It would feel like an incredibly expensive vanity signing to me. Let's let Everton fall into that trap.
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He’s managed about 14 games for Inter since going back on loan. Unless our physios are hogwarts graduates I’d stay well clear.
“ He has played just 828 minutes of club football this season, starting eight games. He has scored only three goals this campaign in Serie A “
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Spoke to my mate today who became the first Villa fan I think I’ve ever heard ask the question ‘do we even need to buy anyone in the summer?’
People get a bit giddy and dizzy with a bit of success. I think we need 4 really excellent players to drive us on. I’m definitely keen to see how Emery incorporates some of these talented players out on loan back into things.
If I make a bunch of assumptions I think 3-4 is about right.
Assumptions:
Every player we want to keep stays.
Olsen goes.
1 of Bailey or Bert goes.
None of the loaned youngsters are ready to be regulars in the squad (I am aware this one is contentious).
Priorities (in order):
2nd striker who can also cover for Watkins if needed
Midfielder who can play wide or central, cover for the wide roles is priority
Backup goalkeeper
Right back cover (we'll need to replace Young at some point)
If young stays for another year we might be able to leave the last one to see if Kessler develops.
With the other youngsters I'd see if we can use AJ Ramsey to slowly replace Countinho or Buendia, Tim to replace Dendoncker and Archer to replace Bert or Bailey over time. I'm not sure there's anyone else who could step up over the next year.
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Yes he's got quality, but Lukaku hardly strikes me as the hard working team player that Emery will surely demand? It would feel like an incredibly expensive vanity signing to me. Let's let Everton fall into that trap.
Or Newcastle. Anyway, I'd be very surprised if we're interested in him..
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Of the players who started on Saturday we signed Konsa, Cash, Buendia, Watkins from the Championship. Mings, Martinez and Luiz weren't 1st choice at Premier League clubs. Ramsey is homegrown. only McGinn, Bailey & Moreno were first choice from top division sides elsewhere.
That's the reason we're where we are in mid-table. But our form under Emery means we're going the right way.
This is why we need some big signings and I get the feeling we're heading the right way to start signing players who are first choice elsewhere, rather than having to take other clubs' cast-offs.
We should be signing first choice players from other top division sides to progress.
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El Aston Villa sueña con Lukaku
The Spanish media seem may have a little more ITK due to the links with the managers and coaches.
It could suggest Villa are in as he's a proven striker. It wouldnt be surprising but think be gard to obtain but good to hear aiming high.
I think we're keen admirers having seen report.
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Of the players who started on Saturday we signed Konsa, Cash, Buendia, Watkins from the Championship. Mings, Martinez and Luiz weren't 1st choice at Premier League clubs. Ramsey is homegrown. only McGinn, Bailey & Moreno were first choice from top division sides elsewhere.
That's the reason we're where we are in mid-table. But our form under Emery means we're going the right way.
This is why we need some big signings and I get the feeling we're heading the right way to start signing players who are first choice elsewhere, rather than having to take other clubs' cast-offs.
We should be signing first choice players from other top division sides to progress.
A combination of Chelsea, Spurs, Brighton and Forest level and style signings.
So a Felix , a Richarlison, a Mitoma and a Kaylor Navas/Aurier
That means I suggest equivalent and big European and South American international. An astute signing and an experienced signing.
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Richarlison isn't the greatest example I would argue.
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Richarlison isn't the greatest example I would argue.
Well he's not a first choice player from a top division, no.
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Richarlison isn't the greatest example I would argue.
Well he's not a first choice player from a top division, no.
I assume that he means that he was when Spurs bought him. Not that we should sign him from Spurs.
Edit - I'd also say that he's a pretty good example. Signing the best players from teams a bit lower than us in the league is a pretty sensible idea. Zaha, Maddison, Johnson, Rice (not that we'd get him) etc. Just because Richarlison has been a bit rubbish at Spurs doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to sign that sort of player.
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Richarlison isn't the greatest example I would argue.
Well he's not a first choice player from a top division, no.
I assume that he means that he was when Spurs bought him. Not that we should sign him from Spurs.
Either way, my point stands.
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I think we need to be careful about being too prescriptive with what a player 'needs to be' to be signed. From that list Martinez wasn't first choice but that didn't stop him immediately being one of the best keepers in the league and turning into the best keeper in the world shortly afterwards. Luiz was a youngster who couldn't get a work permit but is now a top 6 level midfielder (but did take longer to get there). Established first team players at top flight clubs are, generally, going to be older, on higher wages and more expensive. Just signing players like that is how you end up in the sort of mess we were after MON or where Everton are now. 1-2 players like that where we need an immediate improvement is fine but after that I'd be happy for us to go more with the Duran style signings.
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I think we need to be careful about being too prescriptive with what a player 'needs to be' to be signed. From that list Martinez wasn't first choice but that didn't stop him immediately being one of the best keepers in the league and turning into the best keeper in the world shortly afterwards. Luiz was a youngster who couldn't get a work permit but is now a top 6 level midfielder (but did take longer to get there). Established first team players at top flight clubs are, generally, going to be older, on higher wages and more expensive. Just signing players like that is how you end up in the sort of mess we were after MON or where Everton are now. 1-2 players like that where we need an immediate improvement is fine but after that I'd be happy for us to go more with the Duran style signings.
I think we need a few more in their mid 20s. Players who are regulars for teams in the top leagues but who still have room to improve. We're well stocked in the promising youth player ranks, and also quite heavy in the late 20s to early 30s area.
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I agree but would make an exception for Zaha on a free.
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Could you imagine our existing team having a Salah/Saka/Mahrez style player in Bailey's position!! Our attack would be deadly. We are not going to get any of those but we need to find the next best thing.
We need to search wide and afar for a young emerging player with all the necessary attributes that Unai can put the finishing touches too.
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I get your point Lee, but the reality is that we haven't signed many players at the top of their game in a high-quality league. They are, naturally, more expensive, but get the right ones, as we started being linked with in January, and that's what can allow you to maintain consistency and add that extra thing we need.
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I think we need to be careful about being too prescriptive with what a player 'needs to be' to be signed. From that list Martinez wasn't first choice but that didn't stop him immediately being one of the best keepers in the league and turning into the best keeper in the world shortly afterwards. Luiz was a youngster who couldn't get a work permit but is now a top 6 level midfielder (but did take longer to get there). Established first team players at top flight clubs are, generally, going to be older, on higher wages and more expensive. Just signing players like that is how you end up in the sort of mess we were after MON or where Everton are now. 1-2 players like that where we need an immediate improvement is fine but after that I'd be happy for us to go more with the Duran style signings.
I think we need a few more in their mid 20s. Players who are regulars for teams in the top leagues but who still have room to improve. We're well stocked in the promising youth player ranks, and also quite heavy in the late 20s to early 30s area.
Players at the sort of age, level and profile of Bailey when we signed him. The stand-out players for the Champions League chasing teams in other top leagues.
Just, y'know - a bit better than the one example that we did sign.
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Could you imagine our existing team having a Salah/Saka/Mahrez style player in Bailey's position!! Our attack would be deadly. We are not going to get any of those but we need to find the next best thing.
We need to search wide and afar for a young emerging player with all the necessary attributes that Unai can put the finishing touches too.
At 23 Salah was being sold off by Chelsea as not good enough for the Prem, at 24 Mahrez had played two season with Leicester for a total of 7 goals, and at 23 Wilf Zaha was being sold by Man Utd back to Palace after being deemed not good enough for a top prem team.
I'm not saying the idea of finding a "young version" of those players is a bad idea, it's not, just that the younger version of those VERY SAME players were hardly setting the world alight.
I'm all for us uncovering gems, and developing youth products, but if we are serious about getting European football, then we probably need to be signing a couple of players who we KNOW can perform at the level required, and reasonably quickly.
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Richarlison isn't the greatest example I would argue.
No but a first choice taken from Everton as an example. And of course a Brazil international. Hasn't worked out for him so far but decent signing on paper.
Jesus and Zinchenko would have been great signings second choices at Man City but didn't fit the remit.l for example.
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Yes, those two would do nicely. A good example of a team taking advantage of another. I think there could be pickings to be had from Chelsea this summer for a similar reason.
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I think we need to be careful about being too prescriptive with what a player 'needs to be' to be signed. From that list Martinez wasn't first choice but that didn't stop him immediately being one of the best keepers in the league and turning into the best keeper in the world shortly afterwards. Luiz was a youngster who couldn't get a work permit but is now a top 6 level midfielder (but did take longer to get there). Established first team players at top flight clubs are, generally, going to be older, on higher wages and more expensive. Just signing players like that is how you end up in the sort of mess we were after MON or where Everton are now. 1-2 players like that where we need an immediate improvement is fine but after that I'd be happy for us to go more with the Duran style signings.
I think we need a few more in their mid 20s. Players who are regulars for teams in the top leagues but who still have room to improve. We're well stocked in the promising youth player ranks, and also quite heavy in the late 20s to early 30s area.
I'm not sure, I think the age profile right now is probably about right because most of the team now have 100+ games of top flight football to their name so we're less desperate for experience than we have been. For me it's mostly about who is available. If someone like Barnes is an option then great but if not I don't think age/experience is necessarily a primary concern this window. That said I could understand if we went for someone older for the 2nd striker role because we have quite a few young players who will work there who might benefit from being slowly introduced behind someone over 12-18months.
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I would probably take Firmino ahead of Lukaku yet Lukaku is the goal scorer amoung the two and the younger.
Definitely think an experienced player at 29/30/31 is no bad thing.
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Yes, those two would do nicely. A good example of a team taking advantage of another. I think there could be pickings to be had from Chelsea this summer for a similar reason.
I'd take Kante and Sterling off their hands
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Kante is 32 soon, and permanently crocked these days. Wouldn't turn my nose up at Sterling at all though.
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Yes, those two would do nicely. A good example of a team taking advantage of another. I think there could be pickings to be had from Chelsea this summer for a similar reason.
I'd take Kante and Sterling off their hands
Too old, too expensive. Chelsea will have a few players that will be wanting opportunities to prove themselves on a regular basis. No doubt those fuckers will spend the GDP of China again this summer.
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Spoke to my mate today who became the first Villa fan I think I’ve ever heard ask the question ‘do we even need to buy anyone in the summer?’
People get a bit giddy and dizzy with a bit of success. I think we need 4 really excellent players to drive us on. I’m definitely keen to see how Emery incorporates some of these talented players out on loan back into things.
If I make a bunch of assumptions I think 3-4 is about right.
Assumptions:
Every player we want to keep stays.
Olsen goes.
1 of Bailey or Bert goes.
None of the loaned youngsters are ready to be regulars in the squad (I am aware this one is contentious).
Priorities (in order):
2nd striker who can also cover for Watkins if needed
Midfielder who can play wide or central, cover for the wide roles is priority
Backup goalkeeper
Right back cover (we'll need to replace Young at some point)
If young stays for another year we might be able to leave the last one to see if Kessler develops.
With the other youngsters I'd see if we can use AJ Ramsey to slowly replace Countinho or Buendia, Tim to replace Dendoncker and Archer to replace Bert or Bailey over time. I'm not sure there's anyone else who could step up over the next year.
Yeah, agree with this completely. Could see Bailey being flogged on and us replacing him with Cameron Archer. The timing just feels perfect for Cam right now, with him doing so well at Boro. Think Tim & Ramsay A will both have another year out on loan, then come in to the squad the season after to replace Dendonker & Coutinho respectively. Of the 2, though, I think Tim is closer than AJ & more likely to come in to the squad this summer.
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Could you imagine our existing team having a Salah/Saka/Mahrez style player in Bailey's position!! Our attack would be deadly. We are not going to get any of those but we need to find the next best thing.
We need to search wide and afar for a young emerging player with all the necessary attributes that Unai can put the finishing touches too.
At 23 Salah was being sold off by Chelsea as not good enough for the Prem, at 24 Mahrez had played two season with Leicester for a total of 7 goals, and at 23 Wilf Zaha was being sold by Man Utd back to Palace after being deemed not good enough for a top prem team.
I'm not saying the idea of finding a "young version" of those players is a bad idea, it's not, just that the younger version of those VERY SAME players were hardly setting the world alight.
I'm all for us uncovering gems, and developing youth products, but if we are serious about getting European football, then we probably need to be signing a couple of players who we KNOW can perform at the level required, and reasonably quickly.
One experienced player who I thought got a raw deal previously in the Premier League is Leroy Sane. Played for Man City and last time I saw him was on bench for Bayern Munich. Not sure if he can play on the right though? Aged 27.
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Didn't realise Barnes was 25. Thought he was about 20/21.
I'd be happy with him. Raiding Leicester for one or two players would be great (Barnes and Maddison perhaps), they're much better than their league position suggests.
I could see Ayoze Pérez coming in from Leicester. He's on loan at Real Betis at the moment. Clever player. 29 would be suited under Emery style.
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Kante is 32 soon, and permanently crocked these days. Wouldn't turn my nose up at Sterling at all though.
I think more likely Ziyech or Pulisic leaving from Chelsea. And both are good options here at Villa.
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Didn't realise Barnes was 25. Thought he was about 20/21.
I'd be happy with him. Raiding Leicester for one or two players would be great (Barnes and Maddison perhaps), they're much better than their league position suggests.
I could see Ayoze Pérez coming in from Leicester. He's on loan at Real Betis at the moment. Clever player. 29 would be suited under Emery style.
I hoep we're after significantly better players than him, he'd be a big step down from who we've been linked with previously.
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Didn't realise Barnes was 25. Thought he was about 20/21.
I'd be happy with him. Raiding Leicester for one or two players would be great (Barnes and Maddison perhaps), they're much better than their league position suggests.
I could see Ayoze Pérez coming in from Leicester. He's on loan at Real Betis at the moment. Clever player. 29 would be suited under Emery style.
I hoep we're after significantly better players than him, he'd be a big step down from who we've been linked with previously.
We signed Moreno 29 from Betis so I just think can't rule out Pérez to be on radar as potential option. Maybe not first choice on list but some one who may not already playing champions league football and would slot straight in to the league.
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He wasn't good enough for Leicester though, and just playing for Betis, where he's not pulling up any trees, isn't enough. Wrong sort of age as well. If we're going for older players, get ones in who are excellent. He's not.
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Perez would be a downgrade on Bailey in my opinion. Had 1 god season at Newcastle and a few months of looking decent at Leicester but has been shit for 2 and half years now, he's right up there with Drinkwater and Barkley as the sort of player we shouldn't be going anywhere near.
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Perez would be a downgrade on Bailey in my opinion. Had 1 god season at Newcastle and a few months of looking decent at Leicester but has been shit for 2 and half years now, he's right up there with Drinkwater and Barkley as the sort of player we shouldn't be going anywhere near.
Just speculating for players. I can think of worse and wouldn't put him as same trouble label as Barkley and Drinkwater but take your point
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I think the whole point of the January window was not wanting to go out and buy squad players who will end up being on the fringes. Anyone coming in has to be a serious upgrade. Ayoze Perez is not that upgrade
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Zaha's no spring chicken and would want silly wages, but I can't help thinking we'd absolutely spank loads of teams with him in the side. Sheer quality and end product.
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Perez would be a downgrade on Bailey in my opinion. Had 1 god season at Newcastle and a few months of looking decent at Leicester but has been shit for 2 and half years now, he's right up there with Drinkwater and Barkley as the sort of player we shouldn't be going anywhere near.
Just speculating for players. I can think of worse and wouldn't put him as same trouble label as Barkley and Drinkwater but take your point
It's not that he's trouble, it's that we'd be signing the player he looked like 4 years ago rather than the player he is now. People have made similar arguments against Coutinho but he was at least still putting in good performances and having an impact, just not £143m impact.
If we're going to sign someone in their late 20s or early 30s I want them to have just come off the back of stellar season where they were in the form of their life, because at that age once your performance starts to dip it takes a lot to turn it around, especially when you're rich beyond your wildest dreams.
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Ayoze Perez would be a good signing for one of the relegated teams, maybe.
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Zaha's no spring chicken and would want silly wages, but I can't help thinking we'd absolutely spank loads of teams with him in the side. Sheer quality and end product.
The bigger problem is that we'd then have a player I think is a massive c**t and it's been a while since we had one of those.
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Zaha's no spring chicken and would want silly wages, but I can't help thinking we'd absolutely spank loads of teams with him in the side. Sheer quality and end product.
The bigger problem is that we'd then have a player I think is a massive c**t and it's been a while since we had one of those.
I'm not aware of anything objectionable about him off the pitch. My in laws are big Palace fans and have met him a few times and say he's a lovely bloke, my niece basically worships him.
If he's a c**t on the pitch and winds up the opposition, I'm all for it.
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Zaha's no spring chicken and would want silly wages, but I can't help thinking we'd absolutely spank loads of teams with him in the side. Sheer quality and end product.
The bigger problem is that we'd then have a player I think is a massive c**t and it's been a while since we had one of those.
I'm not aware of anything objectionable about him off the pitch. My in laws are big Palace fans and have met him a few times and say he's a lovely bloke, my niece basically worships him.
If he's a c**t on the pitch and winds up the opposition, I'm all for it.
He was interviewed on the Channel 4 documentary series about the Palace Academy and came across really, really well. Which backs up your theory. I'd be all for it too. I think Palace fans will wish him well when he goes but are hoping he goes abroad. The guy in our office laughed at the thought of him coming to us, so now of course I really, really want him too.
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Zaha's no spring chicken and would want silly wages, but I can't help thinking we'd absolutely spank loads of teams with him in the side. Sheer quality and end product.
The bigger problem is that we'd then have a player I think is a massive c**t and it's been a while since we had one of those.
Yep, if you want an arsehole in the dressing room then he is your man.
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He's a pantomime villain. I'd take him.
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
Yes but do his team mates?
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
Yes but do his team mates?
Why wouldn't they?
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
Yes but do his team mates?
Why wouldn't they?
Because he is a twat.
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It would be wise to keep an eye on Sporting and Benfica players.
There is some quality at these clubs.
I also think the Wolves would have quite a few players who would not want Championship football. There are several midfielders and attacking players who many a club would take so would be most decent if they went down.
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
Yes but do his team mates?
Why wouldn't they?
Because he is a twat.
I assume Paul doesn't like him because he's a mouthy little scrote on the pitch who always does well and scores against us.
Pretty sure his teammates wouldn't really have much of a problem with him doing that.
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
Yes but do his team mates?
Why wouldn't they?
Because he is a twat.
I assume Paul doesn't like him because he's a mouthy little scrote on the pitch who always does well and scores against us.
Pretty sure his teammates wouldn't really have much of a problem with him doing that.
Zaha would probably want to try the Champions League and deserves that opportunity. I don't think him coming here is the right fit.
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
Yes but do his team mates?
Why wouldn't they?
Because he is a twat.
I assume Paul doesn't like him because he's a mouthy little scrote on the pitch who always does well and scores against us.
Pretty sure his teammates wouldn't really have much of a problem with him doing that.
Pretty much, I know diving and buying fouls is part of the game but Zaha takes it to a level that I just can't accept, and does it with an expression that makes me want to punch him, repeatedly, the teary-eyed woe-is-me twat.
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The results are in from Mexico. Wilfred Zaha: si, por favor!
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Zaha is their Jack Grealish. Too good for the side he’s at right now but he’s the one things stopping them going down faster than they might. He’s clearly a cut above the other Palace players as Jack was with us when he left. I’d happily take a proven PL footballer who’s attitude for the team he plays for is always spot on. He’s proper quality and gives it his all.
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The results are in from Mexico. Wilfred Zaha: si, por favor!
Emery would absolutely bloody love you!
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The results are in from Mexico. Wilfred Zaha: si, por favor!
Emery would absolutely bloody love you!
No chance. As a proud Basque, he spits upon my petty Castillan!
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No to Zaha for me. He's Palace's best player and will be looking for an increase based on what he's already done in the game. Not what he can do with us. At that age and with what we'd need to cough up, we should be looking at a better long term fit.
Williams looks like an obvious one to revisit this summer.
I still like the look of Donyell Malen to play the Bailey wide forward role. He had a one in two record at PSV, which is ridiculous for a wide forward. One or two injury problems at Dortmund since joining in 2021 but that looks to be behind him now. Still only 24 n'all.
Alex Scott (the Bristol City player, not the BBC hottie) has been compared to Grealish by some. Not sure that's a good thing. Probably fits the profile of the sort of promising player we were targetting under Smith, mind. Emery may expect players far closer to the finished product.
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We should have bought Zaha with the Grealish money. Like for like almost as good replacement. No fucking about with ‘the aggregate’ being replaced by three players.
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Zaha is great, excellent player and master of shithousing. The way he got in Tyrone's head that one game was a perfect example. Fans of other clubs hate him in the same way they do with Emi and did with Grealish when we had him. That said, his age, wages and can he perform for anyone other than Palace, mean i'd pass.
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Wages would be high but he's on a free.
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Zaha's no spring chicken and would want silly wages, but I can't help thinking we'd absolutely spank loads of teams with him in the side. Sheer quality and end product.
Never liked him. I get the feeling he'd be a Collymore type signing on paper. Would come in on stupid wages, constantly demand the ball and make it all about him and upset the dressing room dynamic which seems pretty good currently.
Depends what profile we go for in final third. If it's an up and coming player who's proving himself at top level then Brennan Johnson ticks plenty of boxes for me. 7-8 goals in premier league for Forest and he has pace and can finish so I think he'll improve further and will eventually be hitting 10-15 goals a season.
Or we go for someone more experienced let go by CL team and I think Pulisic would suit us down to the ground with how he drifts off forward line and from out wide. Only issue is he has had plenty of injuries in last two years. Chelsea will surely sell him in the summer as he's been there four years now and the endless attacking signings they've made.
If West Ham go down then Bowen would become an option aswell.
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There might be some other plunderings available from Palace - Eze, Olise? I know we maybe should have signed them in the first place. Bowen would be an excellent shout too.
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Or we go for someone more experienced let go by CL team and I think Pulisic would suit us down to the ground with how he drifts off forward line and from out wide. Only issue is he has had plenty of injuries in last two years. Chelsea will surely sell him in the summer as he's been there four years now and the endless attacking signings they've made.
It might just be my perception but Pulisic has always struck me as a player who goes missing an awful lot.
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
Yes but do his team mates?
Why wouldn't they?
Because he is a twat.
I don't think you've listened very carefully. Off the pitch he's widely considered to be an extremely nice bloke.
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Or we go for someone more experienced let go by CL team and I think Pulisic would suit us down to the ground with how he drifts off forward line and from out wide. Only issue is he has had plenty of injuries in last two years. Chelsea will surely sell him in the summer as he's been there four years now and the endless attacking signings they've made.
It might just be my perception but Pulisic has always struck me as a player who goes missing an awful lot.
For me he is one of those players where you never really understand what he 'does'.
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Most other Premier League fans think Big Emi is a twat, whereas we all love him. Similar story with Zaha I think.
Yes but do his team mates?
Why wouldn't they?
Because he is a twat.
I don't think you've listened very carefully. Off the pitch he's widely considered to be an extremely nice bloke.
Yes I have listened “ carefully” to people with a different opinion.
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I think Ward Prowse is a viable option for if Southampton were relegated, he would come at a lesser price than the 25m we once offered.
I'd welcome him as an addition to the midfield even if it was at 25m
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I think Ward Prowse is a viable option for if Southampton were relegated, he would come at a lesser price than the 25m we once offered.
I'd welcome him as an addition to the midfield even if it was at 25m
I think Ward-Prowse made more sense when we had Grealish in the team given the obscene number of free kicks he won. I dunno, I just imagine he'd not be as useful under Emery. Might be wrong.
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I think Ward Prowse is a viable option for if Southampton were relegated, he would come at a lesser price than the 25m we once offered.
I'd welcome him as an addition to the midfield even if it was at 25m
I think Ward-Prowse made more sense when we had Grealish in the team given the obscene number of free kicks he won. I dunno, I just imagine he'd not be as useful under Emery. Might be wrong.
That's a good point regarding all the free kicks.
We need to start giving the ball to Ramsey more so he can drive forward as the only way opposition seems to stop him is by fouling!
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On linked midfielders, I'm not impressed with USA international Weston McKennie and never have been. On loan at Leeds on audition for sale from Juventus, he has no issue physically, but I don't think he has the technical ability and would sooner have McGinn. No thanks.
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I think Ward Prowse is a viable option for if Southampton were relegated, he would come at a lesser price than the 25m we once offered.
I'd welcome him as an addition to the midfield even if it was at 25m
Don't think he is good enough for us, mate. Set pieces aside he is very average. Plus Luiz is becoming very sharp at set pieces and for me is a far superior player generally than JWP.
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On linked midfielders, I'm not impressed with USA international Weston McKennie and never have been. On loan at Leeds on audition for sale from Juventus, he has no issue physically, but I don't think he has the technical ability and would sooner have McGinn. No thanks.
Agreed, can't see him being the sort of player Emery would be after.
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I think Ward Prowse is a viable option for if Southampton were relegated, he would come at a lesser price than the 25m we once offered.
I'd welcome him as an addition to the midfield even if it was at 25m
Don't think he is good enough for us, mate. Set pieces aside he is very average. Plus Luiz is becoming very sharp at set pieces and for me is a far superior player generally than JWP.
Agreed, wouldn't be keen on us signing JWP at all. Then there's the 'golf swing' goal celebration.
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I think Ward Prowse is a viable option for if Southampton were relegated, he would come at a lesser price than the 25m we once offered.
I'd welcome him as an addition to the midfield even if it was at 25m
Don't think he is good enough for us, mate. Set pieces aside he is very average. Plus Luiz is becoming very sharp at set pieces and for me is a far superior player generally than JWP.
Agreed, wouldn't be keen on us signing JWP at all. Then there's the 'golf swing' goal celebration.
Agreed. A goal once in a while direct from free kick would be nice, but then I’d see that celebration and be forced to pray that VAR rules it out.
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I think Ward Prowse is a viable option for if Southampton were relegated, he would come at a lesser price than the 25m we once offered.
I'd welcome him as an addition to the midfield even if it was at 25m
Don't think he is good enough for us, mate. Set pieces aside he is very average. Plus Luiz is becoming very sharp at set pieces and for me is a far superior player generally than JWP.
Agreed, wouldn't be keen on us signing JWP at all. Then there's the 'golf swing' goal celebration.
Agreed. A goal once in a while direct from free kick would be nice, but then I’d see that celebration and be forced to pray that VAR rules it out.
Only Leicester and Southampton have scored more goals from direct free kicks than us this season. We've also scored a couple direct from corners. We're not doing too bad with shots from dead balls this season :-)
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Doesn’t Ward Prowse have some of the highest distance covered stats in the league? I don’t think it’s fair that he's just about the set pieces.
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JWP will be 29 in November. He been wise to move on now from Saints be it us or some other club this summer
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Doesn’t Ward Prowse have some of the highest distance covered stats in the league? I don’t think it’s fair that he's just about the set pieces.
Yes, he is more than just free kicks.
I think we have only scored one goal this season from a free kick (?)- Digne - so increasing that thread by 4 or 5 fold would not be bad either.
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I would take Lorenzo Pellegrini of Italy and Roma would be great fit
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Doesn’t Ward Prowse have some of the highest distance covered stats in the league? I don’t think it’s fair that he's just about the set pieces.
He'd have to in that team.
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Doesn’t Ward Prowse have some of the highest distance covered stats in the league? I don’t think it’s fair that he's just about the set pieces.
He'd have to in that team.
True. But it’s more a case that he’s not afraid of putting in a shift. Doesn’t play for a too club but is seemingly humble enough to work hard for his team and fans. I like that.
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I don't see use being in for Ward Prowse. He's 29, he doesn't offer a significant upgrade on what we have already bar direct free kicks, and even if Soton go down he's still going to cost a fair penny. Plus, of what he offered was that important, why hasn't anyone in to scab 6 been sniffing around?
I dunno, I just think whilst he might've been a target when Joe was here, Kamara wasn't, Dougie was a couple of years younger, and we were trying to buy players who'd get us from 11th to 7th in the league ...
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I hope that Emery is in full charge of transfers from now on. No way would he be spending big money on the likes of Ward Prowse.
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I hope that Emery is in full charge of transfers from now on. No way would he be spending big money on the likes of Ward Prowse.
I don't see use being in for Ward Prowse. He's 29, he doesn't offer a significant upgrade on what we have already bar direct free kicks, and even if Soton go down he's still going to cost a fair penny. Plus, of what he offered was that important, why hasn't anyone in to scab 6 been sniffing around?
I dunno, I just think whilst he might've been a target when Joe was here, Kamara wasn't, Dougie was a couple of years younger, and we were trying to buy players who'd get us from 11th to 7th in the league ...
Ward Prowse.
Number 1 in League for free kicks
4th for passes into the box
6th in passes
6th for Tackles
6th for passes into final third
9th for one touch passes
All within the top 10 in Premier League this season playing for a struggling team. Offers quite a lot wouldn't you say?
More than any current Villa player none in top 10 for these stats.
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I like Ward-Prowse, and I think he's a better player than some are suggesting, but I still don't think he's what we need to improve us. What he does works in that team (and the team is built around him to make the most of it) but our style is different enough that I don't think it would translate all that easily. I suspect that's the problem a lot of teams have with him which is why there's no great noise linking him to top half clubs despite him, on paper, looking like someone they should look at.
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I like Ward-Prowse, and I think he's a better player than some are suggesting, but I still don't think he's what we need to improve us. What he does works in that team (and the team is built around him to make the most of it) but our style is different enough that I don't think it would translate all that easily. I suspect that's the problem a lot of teams have with him which is why there's no great noise linking him to top half clubs despite him, on paper, looking like someone they should look at.
I also think he's a good player, but hus value to them is probably higher than what teams are willing to pay
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I really like Ward-Prowse but I’d rather have Guendouzi and/or the bloke who scored that worldie for Sporting last week.
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I dunno, I just think whilst he might've been a target when Joe was here, Kamara wasn't, Dougie was a couple of years younger, and we were trying to buy players who'd get us from 11th to 7th in the league ...
Isn't next summer still us trying to buy players who will get us from 11th to 7th in the league?
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I like WP but positionally it is not a priority.
Wide forward Right back Centre Half.
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I like WP but positionally it is not a priority.
Wide forward Right back Centre Half.
Mine are wide forward, back up keeper and, at a push if I have to pick two more, those two midfielders either side of Kamara and Dougie. Two real quality players there could really make a difference I think. I’d like to see more of Carlos before buying another centre-half.
I’m looking forward to finding out what UE thinks the priorities are.
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I really like Ward-Prowse but I’d rather have Guendouzi and/or the bloke who scored that worldie for Sporting last week.
You pushed for him previously, and I think back then I could see some value too, but we've moved on a couple of levels with this manager. I'm not sure at 29 he's good enough for where we want to be, and isn't going to get better himself. I'm not sure who he'd replace in the team or what he'd add.
Guendozi is younger, improving and has previous with the manager, and Goncalvez too is young and improving and a player who has represented his country at various age levels and played in Europe.
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I'd like another striker, and some guile, width and pace too. I reckon another Left Back could be handy.......
Midfield is covered pretty well, Kamara, Luiz, Ramsey J, with Ramsey A, and Iroegbunam coming through.
We're a little light on numbers, and I'm not sure there's anyone I'd like to ship out, other than Olsen and potentially Bailey and Traore.
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I like WP but positionally it is not a priority.
Wide forward Right back Centre Half.
Mine are wide forward, back up keeper and, at a push if I have to pick two more, those two midfielders either side of Kamara and Dougie. Two real quality players there could really make a difference I think. I’d like to see more of Carlos before buying another centre-half.
I’m looking forward to finding out what UE thinks the priorities are.
Even with Carlos I think we will lack some pace /mobility at centre half, I think everyone agrees that we need big upgrades on Traore Bailey.
Our best 4 in midfield is pretty decent but upgrading will be a challenge.
Also interesting to see where he thinks Buendia and Coutinho fit in.
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Much as I like the revitalised Watkins I think the main priority should and will be a top striker.
I really like the idea of Guendouzi as I feel he can cover both the dm and attacking midfield roles.
Another forward thinking player on top of these two would be a bonus.
I'm not so fussed about defence. I think Mings has re-established himself as No1 centre back, and rightly so in my opinion, he's fucking brilliant. Carlos and Konsa are hopefully good enough for the other side. I've felt for a while we could possibly upgrade Cash, but he's playing well and fits well into the role of our more defensive fullback. So I'd concentrate my money on top quality in the other positions.
Hopefully it will be an exciting summer.
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Much as I like the revitalised Watkins I think the main priority should and will be a top striker.
I really like the idea of Guendouzi as I feel he can cover both the dm and attacking midfield roles.
Another forward thinking player on top of these two would be a bonus.
I'm not so fussed about defence. I think Mings has re-established himself as No1 centre back, and rightly so in my opinion, he's fucking brilliant. Carlos and Konsa are hopefully good enough for the other side. I've felt for a while we could possibly upgrade Cash, but he's playing well and fits well into the role of our more defensive fullback. So I'd concentrate my money on top quality in the other positions.
Hopefully it will be an exciting summer.
Guendouzi as an 8 then? I see him as a defensive midfielder.
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Much as I like the revitalised Watkins I think the main priority should and will be a top striker.
I really like the idea of Guendouzi as I feel he can cover both the dm and attacking midfield roles.
Another forward thinking player on top of these two would be a bonus.
I'm not so fussed about defence. I think Mings has re-established himself as No1 centre back, and rightly so in my opinion, he's fucking brilliant. Carlos and Konsa are hopefully good enough for the other side. I've felt for a while we could possibly upgrade Cash, but he's playing well and fits well into the role of our more defensive fullback. So I'd concentrate my money on top quality in the other positions.
Hopefully it will be an exciting summer.
Guendouzi as an 8 then? I see him as a defensive midfielder.
No, F-V that's not what Chris said - he said he could cover both.
I think Chris has called it about right in terms of priorities.
The key to next season will be what Emery thinks of the kids that are available to us after loans this season.
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Much as I like the revitalised Watkins I think the main priority should and will be a top striker.
I really like the idea of Guendouzi as I feel he can cover both the dm and attacking midfield roles.
Another forward thinking player on top of these two would be a bonus.
I'm not so fussed about defence. I think Mings has re-established himself as No1 centre back, and rightly so in my opinion, he's fucking brilliant. Carlos and Konsa are hopefully good enough for the other side. I've felt for a while we could possibly upgrade Cash, but he's playing well and fits well into the role of our more defensive fullback. So I'd concentrate my money on top quality in the other positions.
Hopefully it will be an exciting summer.
Guendouzi as an 8 then? I see him as a defensive midfielder.
Assuming we buy him and he gets picked, I think he’d replace the McGinn hybrid/right position in the current midfield set up. He’s much more attacking now than he was for Arsenal.
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Have heard some bad press about Guendouzi attitude wise, possibly based on his Arsenal days, but doesn’t fill me with confidence, especially if we are to pay £40m for him..
Can see us going for someone else
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Have heard some bad press about Guendouzi attitude wise, possibly based on his Arsenal days, but doesn’t fill me with confidence, especially if we are to pay £40m for him..
Can see us going for someone else
Emery was his manager at Arsenal wasn’t he? If so, buying him would be the ultimate approval of his attitude.
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Have heard some bad press about Guendouzi attitude wise, possibly based on his Arsenal days, but doesn’t fill me with confidence, especially if we are to pay £40m for him..
Can see us going for someone else
Emery was his manager at Arsenal wasn’t he? If so, buying him would be the ultimate approval of his attitude.
Just a reminder of what he thinks of Emery. And talk of his attitude is massively overstated. Even in his time at Arsenal. He’s very much a leader in Marseille and he will do well with us in the PL.
https://twitter.com/aftvmedia/status/1372177398410571781?s=46&t=0-BUXD66ovTcofwrbTW4Ag
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Rumour:
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang.
Chelsea could be set to tear up Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang's contract after his recent trip to Barcelona, it has been claimed.
Question:
Having previously played effectively under Emery and enjoying good goalscoring form, would it be worth the relative risk of signing the 33 yeard old from Chelsea.
In your opinion, would that be a good or risky move?
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Maybe you could add a poll.
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Aubameyang is a toxic wanker.
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No thank you
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I wouldn't choose Aubameyang for anything other than 'footballer most likely to go to jail for an NFT scam'.
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Rumour:
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang.
Chelsea could be set to tear up Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang's contract after his recent trip to Barcelona, it has been claimed.
Question:
Having previously played effectively under Emery and enjoying good goalscoring form, would it be worth the relative risk of signing the 33 yeard old from Chelsea.
In your opinion, would that be a good or risky move?
Please use a little bit of judgement when posting rumours. Most are utter bollocks. Remember that. So treat most of it with a pinch of salt. But some will be so wild and reckless that they are not worth even suggesting. Like this one. Think about who the manager is, where we are as a club and what we are looking to achieve with players coming in. Not only is Aubameyang a past it, complete wanker who’s been binned from his last three clubs, he’s on stupid money. We’re not remotely shopping for players like that.
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Rumour:
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang.
Chelsea could be set to tear up Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang's contract after his recent trip to Barcelona, it has been claimed.
Question:
Having previously played effectively under Emery and enjoying good goalscoring form, would it be worth the relative risk of signing the 33 yeard old from Chelsea.
In your opinion, would that be a good or risky move?
Please use a little bit of judgement when posting rumours. Most are utter bollocks. Remember that. So treat most of it with a pinch of salt. But some will be so wild and reckless that they are not worth even suggesting. Like this one. Think about who the manager is, where we are as a club and what we are looking to achieve with players coming in. Not only is Aubameyang a past it, complete wanker who’s been binned from his last three clubs, he’s on stupid money. We’re not remotely shopping for players like that.
Yeh. But he can speak Spanish.
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That was a a good 1-2
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Rumour:
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang.
Chelsea could be set to tear up Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang's contract after his recent trip to Barcelona, it has been claimed.
Question:
Having previously played effectively under Emery and enjoying good goalscoring form, would it be worth the relative risk of signing the 33 yeard old from Chelsea.
In your opinion, would that be a good or risky move?
No! We'd just bet swapping the £125k per week we gave Ings for another player on the way down. He'd probably still want double as well.
We already have a potential "issue" with a well-paid player, Coutinho, in respect to his contribution/cost that at best is 50/50 in terms of being a success, I don't want another.
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I think along with a likely established striker signing, Archer should also be afforded opportunities in the first team next season, but depending on signings, Emery may look to give him one more season on loan
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I wish the press would stop mentioning us and Oxlade Chamberlin
Injured and crap for 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' but we should be grateful , !!!!
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Rumour:
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang.
Chelsea could be set to tear up Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang's contract after his recent trip to Barcelona, it has been claimed.
Question:
Having previously played effectively under Emery and enjoying good goalscoring form, would it be worth the relative risk of signing the 33 yeard old from Chelsea.
In your opinion, would that be a good or risky move?
No fucking way
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I wish the press would stop mentioning us and Oxlade Chamberlin
Injured and crap for 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' but we should be grateful , !!!!
Load of bollocks. Gabbyesque
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Maybe Jozy Altidore is on his way too
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Maybe Jozy Altidore is on his way too
Only koaxing Kevin Kyle out of retirement will bring Hawkesey back to H&V.
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Maybe Jozy Altidore is on his way too
Word on the street is that Altidore has signed up with the Bryce Jovial Agency who are not short of contacts among the lumberjacks, to get you facts and advance hypotheses to stimulate debate on social forums.
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Scott McTominay scored 2 goals vs. Spain and 2 the other day vs. Cyprus good evidence to suggest he can be a goalscoring midfielder..
He's 26 and has a good level of experience. I would rather we sign him than Oxlade-Chamberlin.
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I would rather sign Bella Emberg than Oxlade-Chamberlain. I don't want us to sign Bella Emberg.
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Bella Emberg is a bit lacking in the ‘being alive’ area to fit in with Emery’s profile for possible signings.
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Bella Emberg is a bit lacking in the ‘being alive’ area to fit in with Emery’s profile for possible signings.
Also, didn’t speak a word of Spanish.
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Bella Emberg is a bit lacking in the ‘being alive’ area to fit in with Emery’s profile for possible signings.
Also, didn’t speak a word of Spanish.
Well....
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Bella Emberg is a bit lacking in the ‘being alive’ area to fit in with Emery’s profile for possible signings.
Bella could do a good job in the hole, or at the rear of a diamond. Whether she would commit to "the new way" is open to question.
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Could go two up front with Cleo Rocos.
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Could go two up front with Cleo Rocos.
Great call, Hilts. Cleo would give us presence up top and allow Olly to feed off her.
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Could go two up front with Cleo Rocos.
She'd certainly represent a challenge to VAR offside calls.
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Could go two up front with Cleo Rocos.
She'd certainly represent a challenge to VAR offside calls.
A point well made, and did you know that Shane MacGowan, prior to joining Pogue Mahone was in a band call The Nipple Erectors? Me neither.
Fine margins in VAR.
On reflection, this would not be advantageous and it's back to the drawing board on this one,
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Anyone still think it was a 1/10 window and the club have given up etc etc?
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Anyone still think it was a 1/10 window and the club have given up etc etc?
That Emery is getting the best out of a depleted squad doesn't for one second mean it was a good transfer window. Quite an average attempt at trolling to be honest.
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Not trolling, genuinely interested if people have changed their minds a little?
Imo there was a lot of ott responses to January, and the fact that we have now one of the best managers and coaches in the league mean we can rely on him to improve to the team.
Seems very clear that Emery has set transfer targets and won't fuck around with average players and is happy to risk having a smaller squad than players who will never play anyway hanging around.
Just having time off made me think that end of January there was so much negativity about the window and what it meant that, actually, it's pretty alright
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Not trolling, genuinely interested if people have changed their minds a little?
Imo there was a lot of ott responses to January, and the fact that we have now one of the best managers and coaches in the league mean we can rely on him to improve to the team.
Seems very clear that Emery has set transfer targets and won't fuck around with average players and is happy to risk having a smaller squad than players who will never play anyway hanging around.
Just having time off made me think that end of January there was so much negativity about the window and what it meant that, actually, it's pretty alright
Yes, it seems feasible, as many suspected, that we were told our first choices would not be released mid-season, and Emery wasn’t interested in buying anyone he didn’t rate as highly while the possibility of getting his first choices in the summer remains.
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I think only buying Moreno and a raw untried Djuran as well as letting Ings go, more or less were immediately followed by the three defeats to Leicester, Man City and Arsenal. So the two factors probably combined to cause a bit of a wobble amongst some supporters. Things look a lot more optimistic now and we can clearly see Emery’s coaching play out on the pitch and also previously underperforming players like McGinn and Watkins flying.
I do think another bad run or more likely getting close to Europe but not quite and some of what could of been if January was better will resurface. Personally, the summer seems massive, i don’t think we need loads of new players, but two or three top quality signings, then we’ll really know if Emery is being backed properly.
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Yes, it seems feasible, as many suspected, that we were told our first choices would not be released mid-season, and Emery wasn’t interested in buying anyone he didn’t rate as highly while the possibility of getting his first choices in the summer remains.
I'm pretty sure Emery said as much a couple of weeks ago.
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I think only buying Moreno and a raw untried Djuran as well as letting Ings go, more or less were immediately followed by the three defeats to Leicester, Man City and Arsenal. So the two factors probably combined to cause a bit of a wobble amongst some supporters. Things look a lot more optimistic now and we can clearly see Emery’s coaching play out on the pitch and also previously underperforming players like McGinn and Watkins flying.
I do think another bad run or more likely getting close to Europe but not quite and some of what could of been if January was better will resurface. Personally, the summer seems massive, i don’t think we need loads of new players, but two or three top quality signings, then we’ll really know if Emery is being backed properly.
Letting Ings go was a big positive. Obviously there's an argument as to whether it was necessary to let both Sanson and Nakamba go on loan but if the manager doesn't rate them then so be it. Both of them seem to be doing ok on loan.
We have been a bit unfortunate with injuries of late, Kamara gets injured and Dendoncker picks up some kind of hand injury. Coutinho gives his best performance of the season against Arsenal and promptly off injured since. Cash getting back to his best and out now again. Fair play to Emery and likes of Mings, Luiz, Martinez, Watkins, McGinn who have carried the team of late despite all that.
Next summer is huge, the three young guys on loan in the championship, if reports are to be believed, all seem ready to be integrated into the first team squad too.
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It is going to be a very interesting summer this year with I suspect a number of clubs finally starting to see the wheels come off financially (looking at you Chelsea, Everton and Forest), with even Burnley under threat despite promotion back to the Premier League. It's good that we managed to prune a fair bit of the deadwood in January as I doubt there would be many takers in the summer, the key will be taking maximum advantage of others woes this year as well as making space for the our most promising youth in the squad. 3-4 top quality players and next season could be quite special.
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Agree with that!
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We're lucky that Ollie must be one of the most robust CFs around.
He's been here nearly three years and in that time all he's missed is one game in 20/21 when he was wrongly sent off for diving v Man. United, two games at the start of 21/22 and this season all I can remember him missing is Brighton away because he was ill.
Considering the injuries we've had to likes of Bailey, Carlos and Kamara in last 18 months we've had very good fortune with him but you can never get complacent and we certainly need another attacker in the summer if we're serious about playing 50 games in a season again.
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And yet he never needs a rest.
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He keeps going which is great news for us and him.
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I bet he'll sign a new contract in the next few weeks. The clichéd thing, isn't it, when a player shows a bit of form and is more than halfway through his deal? I mean, I loved Hendrie, but that was probably his best skill...
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Not trolling, genuinely interested if people have changed their minds a little?
Imo there was a lot of ott responses to January, and the fact that we have now one of the best managers and coaches in the league mean we can rely on him to improve to the team.
Seems very clear that Emery has set transfer targets and won't fuck around with average players and is happy to risk having a smaller squad than players who will never play anyway hanging around.
Just having time off made me think that end of January there was so much negativity about the window and what it meant that, actually, it's pretty alright
Yes, it seems feasible, as many suspected, that we were told our first choices would not be released mid-season, and Emery wasn’t interested in buying anyone he didn’t rate as highly while the possibility of getting his first choices in the summer remains.
it's pretty clear that guendouzi fell into that category and marseille wanted to hold on, with an eye on champions league qualification.
emery strikes me as a considered manager who is assessing what he has got, who can adapt/mould to how he wants to play, who is surplus, and who he wants to bring in.
this summer will be a big window for ins and outs.
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I think the crux of our relative inactivity in January was player availability for one, but more importantly was that Emery had the self belief and confidence to know that his coaching skills and tactical nous would bring out significant improvement in those current players, who were willing to buy into the new regime.
A few months in it'll be becoming clear to him, that the likes of Mings, McGinn & Watkins fall into that bracket and can be cemented into next seasons plans, so do not necessarily need a direct replacement.
Come the Summer he'll have a far clearer idea of the players needed and in which position, to improve the squad, personally I'm glad he kept his powder dry and I've every confidence we'll start next season with a squad primed to make the jump up to top 8 as a minimum.
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We're lucky that Ollie must be one of the most robust CFs around.
He's been here nearly three years and in that time all he's missed is one game in 20/21 when he was wrongly sent off for diving v Man. United, two games at the start of 21/22 and this season all I can remember him missing is Brighton away because he was ill.
Considering the injuries we've had to likes of Bailey, Carlos and Kamara in last 18 months we've had very good fortune with him but you can never get complacent and we certainly need another attacker in the summer if we're serious about playing 50 games in a season again.
Charlie Aitken springs to mind. His non-injury record was phenomenal. Similar athletic attributes to Ollie.
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We didn't buy the sub-standard shit that was available (for once) and will be better for it.
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We're lucky that Ollie must be one of the most robust CFs around.
He's been here nearly three years and in that time all he's missed is one game in 20/21 when he was wrongly sent off for diving v Man. United, two games at the start of 21/22 and this season all I can remember him missing is Brighton away because he was ill.
Considering the injuries we've had to likes of Bailey, Carlos and Kamara in last 18 months we've had very good fortune with him but you can never get complacent and we certainly need another attacker in the summer if we're serious about playing 50 games in a season again.
Charlie Aitken springs to mind. His non-injury record was phenomenal. Similar athletic attributes to Ollie.
My father in law was Charlie’s accountant, he was saying that Charlie was ahead of the times with nutrition and diet. He really looked after himself
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He is coming up to 81 in May - not sure why but i thought he was older than that
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In principle - our inactivity was seemingly a considered gamble.
Possibly still too early to know if it pays off. Being thin on numbers could still cost us, and well have to see how the summer goes to see if waiting to get too targets was worth it
But agree - so far so good - fingers crossed
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In principle - our inactivity was seemingly a considered gamble.
Possibly still too early to know if it pays off. Being thin on numbers could still cost us, and well have to see how the summer goes to see if waiting to get too targets was worth it
But agree - so far so good - fingers crossed
That's how I look at it. I suspect we had a very small list of players we were interested in and could sign without creating problems and from that Moreno was the only simple choice because he was replacing a loan that could be terminated and had a buyout we could meet pretty easily.
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Not trolling, genuinely interested if people have changed their minds a little?
Imo there was a lot of ott responses to January, and the fact that we have now one of the best managers and coaches in the league mean we can rely on him to improve to the team.
Seems very clear that Emery has set transfer targets and won't fuck around with average players and is happy to risk having a smaller squad than players who will never play anyway hanging around.
Just having time off made me think that end of January there was so much negativity about the window and what it meant that, actually, it's pretty alright
Not really. I still feel we left ourselves very short and an injury to a key player - particularly Ollie - could have derailed our season. Obviously we're not party to the negotiations, but if it was down to saving a few million on a player we want long term then I don't think the gamble was worth it. I think the opportunity is now and to retain our best players we need to start pushing up the league. I felt our lack of activity put that at risk.
Of course with hindsight we may manage brilliantly with no serious injuries and finish 8th. But for me that's like a gambler saying see, I told you it would be red.
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Not trolling, genuinely interested if people have changed their minds a little?
Imo there was a lot of ott responses to January, and the fact that we have now one of the best managers and coaches in the league mean we can rely on him to improve to the team.
Seems very clear that Emery has set transfer targets and won't fuck around with average players and is happy to risk having a smaller squad than players who will never play anyway hanging around.
Just having time off made me think that end of January there was so much negativity about the window and what it meant that, actually, it's pretty alright
Not really. I still feel we left ourselves very short and an injury to a key player - particularly Ollie - could have derailed our season. Obviously we're not party to the negotiations, but if it was down to saving a few million on a player we want long term then I don't think the gamble was worth it. I think the opportunity is now and to retain our best players we need to start pushing up the league. I felt our lack of activity put that at risk.
Of course with hindsight we may manage brilliantly with no serious injuries and finish 8th. But for me that's like a gambler saying see, I told you it would be red.
Finishing 8th is not really much of an incentive for us to have spent money on non first choice players in January though. The argument for those of us who were happy with what we did is that by the end of the window we were already largely safe from relegation, but that Europe was still a push - the way this season has panned out has been really odd, and why we have largely been marooned in 11th place. We were too far above the relegation zone to be involved in the battle, but Gerrard's start to the season left us with too much catching up to do to have anything but a remote chance of finishing 7th (which might still not even have been enough).
This summer we need to spend every penny we have getting the best possible players in to improve the first team. Moreno was an easy deal to do, and we did sign Duran as well so it's not like we have no options to replace Watkins, just one who is raw but who now should get a decent amount of minutes this season and be all the better for it come August.
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Not trolling, genuinely interested if people have changed their minds a little?
Imo there was a lot of ott responses to January, and the fact that we have now one of the best managers and coaches in the league mean we can rely on him to improve to the team.
Seems very clear that Emery has set transfer targets and won't fuck around with average players and is happy to risk having a smaller squad than players who will never play anyway hanging around.
Just having time off made me think that end of January there was so much negativity about the window and what it meant that, actually, it's pretty alright
Not really. I still feel we left ourselves very short and an injury to a key player - particularly Ollie - could have derailed our season. Obviously we're not party to the negotiations, but if it was down to saving a few million on a player we want long term then I don't think the gamble was worth it. I think the opportunity is now and to retain our best players we need to start pushing up the league. I felt our lack of activity put that at risk.
Of course with hindsight we may manage brilliantly with no serious injuries and finish 8th. But for me that's like a gambler saying see, I told you it would be red.
I really don't see it as being as simple as "just saving a few million quid" though. Signing players who you don't really want, just in case someone gets injured is also a massive gamble in of itself, and also not all that tempting for the incoming player given that they know they probably won't play unless x gets injured and will be replaced in the summer anyway. That makes it so hard to bring people in under these circumstances, and as has been proven time and time again, bringing in players for short periods to be at all effective is incredibly rare. Unless you get Joao Felix for £900M for 5 months.
All transfer strategies are risk, the idea of a safety net of 'cover' is false.
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We haven't been able to name a full bench for weeks, and with Cash out it's going to be further depleted.
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We haven't been able to name a full bench for weeks, and with Cash out it's going to be further depleted.
doesn't answer any of the pertinent points though does it. Yes we currently have a very small squad, but there are mitigating circumstances in that we're clearing our years worth of shit and a new manager is figuring out what/who he needs to bring in. January window is a fucking shitshow for getting quality in, we know this, so we have to wait until the summer.
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We haven't been able to name a full bench for weeks, and with Cash out it's going to be further depleted.
Yep, it's had a terrible effect on results too.
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And yet he never needs a rest.
He had a similar record at Brentford too, so this isn’t luck. Smith made a comment along those lines when he signed him (I think). The consistency must help the manager too as he can almost guarantee what he’ll get each week and make plans to accommodate his strengths and weaknesses.
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Hypothetically, Emery might still decide that Mings/McGinn/Watkins are not in his plans. A bonus from not signing their replacements first (number 1 choice or otherwise) is that we will sell “McGinn” for close to his ceiling value. Whereas half a season of not playing and being seen as surplus to requirements would see his value plummet.
Some self generated bonus cash like that will help us grow no end.
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We haven't been able to name a full bench for weeks, and with Cash out it's going to be further depleted.
Yep, it's had a terrible effect on results too.
I've never had a house fire but I'm not about to go and cancel my home insurance.
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Bit of a broken record isn't it Risso
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Not trolling, genuinely interested if people have changed their minds a little?
Imo there was a lot of ott responses to January, and the fact that we have now one of the best managers and coaches in the league mean we can rely on him to improve to the team.
Seems very clear that Emery has set transfer targets and won't fuck around with average players and is happy to risk having a smaller squad than players who will never play anyway hanging around.
Just having time off made me think that end of January there was so much negativity about the window and what it meant that, actually, it's pretty alright
Not really. I still feel we left ourselves very short and an injury to a key player - particularly Ollie - could have derailed our season. Obviously we're not party to the negotiations, but if it was down to saving a few million on a player we want long term then I don't think the gamble was worth it. I think the opportunity is now and to retain our best players we need to start pushing up the league. I felt our lack of activity put that at risk.
Of course with hindsight we may manage brilliantly with no serious injuries and finish 8th. But for me that's like a gambler saying see, I told you it would be red.
I really don't see it as being as simple as "just saving a few million quid" though. Signing players who you don't really want, just in case someone gets injured is also a massive gamble in of itself, and also not all that tempting for the incoming player given that they know they probably won't play unless x gets injured and will be replaced in the summer anyway. That makes it so hard to bring people in under these circumstances, and as has been proven time and time again, bringing in players for short periods to be at all effective is incredibly rare. Unless you get Joao Felix for £900M for 5 months.
All transfer strategies are risk, the idea of a safety net of 'cover' is false.
I just don't agree Corey. I understand what you're saying, but for me every season is precious, particularly given the current situation re top 6, Newcastle etc. We can't afford to be writing off seasons for jam tomorrow if we want to retain our top players. We may get away with it and if so then great. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't a gamble.
And paying a bit extra doesn't mean getting shit players for the sake of it. it means trying to force a deal on the players you want by paying a premium or maybe taking loans (eg on players with not much time left on their current deals where everyone makes a bit). If you do the former it may cost a bit extra, but potentially you could claw some back in league placings and then the additional benefit of the playing being more ready next season and the knock on benefits that has.
I don't know who we wanted and whether deals were possible with a bit more effort, but then again neither do you. But I do think we could and should have done something, whether the ball lands on red or not.
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Bit of a broken record isn't it Risso
Don't ask a question and then get pissed off when people answer it Corey. Particularly when you start with the words 'I'm not trolling, genuinely interested...'
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Bit of a broken record isn't it Risso
Weren't you the one that bumped this thread in the hope of having this same conversation again?
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Not pissed off, and yes essentially I'm rehashing the same conversation, just with some hindsight. Only reason I poked a little there was not getting any substance from the arguments other than 'risk', but I hear what you're saying.
International breaks, too boring eh
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Not trolling, genuinely interested if people have changed their minds a little?
Imo there was a lot of ott responses to January, and the fact that we have now one of the best managers and coaches in the league mean we can rely on him to improve to the team.
Seems very clear that Emery has set transfer targets and won't fuck around with average players and is happy to risk having a smaller squad than players who will never play anyway hanging around.
Just having time off made me think that end of January there was so much negativity about the window and what it meant that, actually, it's pretty alright
Not really. I still feel we left ourselves very short and an injury to a key player - particularly Ollie - could have derailed our season. Obviously we're not party to the negotiations, but if it was down to saving a few million on a player we want long term then I don't think the gamble was worth it. I think the opportunity is now and to retain our best players we need to start pushing up the league. I felt our lack of activity put that at risk.
Of course with hindsight we may manage brilliantly with no serious injuries and finish 8th. But for me that's like a gambler saying see, I told you it would be red.
I really don't see it as being as simple as "just saving a few million quid" though. Signing players who you don't really want, just in case someone gets injured is also a massive gamble in of itself, and also not all that tempting for the incoming player given that they know they probably won't play unless x gets injured and will be replaced in the summer anyway. That makes it so hard to bring people in under these circumstances, and as has been proven time and time again, bringing in players for short periods to be at all effective is incredibly rare. Unless you get Joao Felix for £900M for 5 months.
All transfer strategies are risk, the idea of a safety net of 'cover' is false.
I just don't agree Corey. I understand what you're saying, but for me every season is precious, particularly given the current situation re top 6, Newcastle etc. We can't afford to be writing off seasons for jam tomorrow if we want to retain our top players. We may get away with it and if so then great. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't a gamble.
And paying a bit extra doesn't mean getting shit players for the sake of it. it means trying to force a deal on the players you want by paying a premium or maybe taking loans (eg on players with not much time left on their current deals where everyone makes a bit). If you do the former it may cost a bit extra, but potentially you could claw some back in league placings and then the additional benefit of the playing being more ready next season and the knock on benefits that has.
I don't know who we wanted and whether deals were possible with a bit more effort, but then again neither do you. But I do think we could and should have done something, whether the ball lands on red or not.
The problem is this season was pretty much already a write-off by the time the window closed, the difference between 'Red' and 'Black' is most likely finishing 8th or 12th which has been the case since January. In those circumstances I don't really think it is going to make that much difference to either signing or retaining players wherever we finish - the more important thing to demonstrate is that we are working to a coherent plan under a manager who knows what he is doing and will be supported when it really counts.
Also, we aren't talking about getting shit players for the sake of it, we are saying that it is pointless spending money on players we either don't need as short-term cover, or keeping players whose value is plummeting on the off-chance we get an injury. This year was the first time in god knows how long we have had the luxury of being able to move players out when they still have value, and to not have to bring in players as a short-term fix who won't fit the manager's plans. In fact, even having a manager who seemingly has a coherent plan is a huge step-up.
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People used to ask me why I supported Streve Bruce. The answer was simple, I thought he'd get us promoted and to me with the way football finance was going that was the single most important thing. The truth is, he nearly did.
But if we'd won that game against Fulham, whilst I would have been proved right with hindsight it wouldn't have meant Paul etc who thought he was shit were wrong. The reality is they were right - he was shit and the result of the Fulham game wouldn't have changed that.
We may get away with our thin squad this season, but that doesn't mean Risso etc are wrong. Just that we'll have taken a gamble and got away with it.
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Not pissed off, and yes essentially I'm rehashing the same conversation, just with some hindsight. Only reason I poked a little there was not getting any substance from the arguments other than 'risk', but I hear what you're saying.
There's more to it than just risk and padding the squad in case of injuries.
For example, if we assume that we're planning to buy a fantastic second striker / winger in the summer to replace Bailey in the first eleven, I think we'd be doing better right now had we just signed them in January.
That can obviously be countered with "their club might not have wanted to sell them in January". Which is obviously true, but as a rule of thumb, the sort of shit-hot player that we could only possibly sign in the summer isn't the sort of player whose club will want to sell at all.
They might be just as unavailable in the summer as they turned out to be in January. They might have a storming second half of the season and we find £40m added to their price. Or find that they're now being sold to Man City instead. Or that their team has qualified for the Champions League that they were sticking around to help with, and the player now wants to stay and play in the Champions League rather than joining us.
If we are in a strong financial position (which I believe we are), with engaged owners (which I believe we have) and a squad that barely has enough players to name a match-day squad (which it does) and there is a small pool of very specific players we have decided that we really need to the extent that we don't want to consider any alternatives to those players - just buy the buggers.
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If we had been in any danger of going down, or were right in the mix for a European place then we should have strengthened in January - that wasn't the case though, so it's not like under Bruce where we were gambling the house. Nothing in life is ever certain, but if finishing 11th rather than 8th this season means next year we will have a better chance of Europe or a cup win because we are able to get in the players we actually want then it is a price worth paying.
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Not pissed off, and yes essentially I'm rehashing the same conversation, just with some hindsight. Only reason I poked a little there was not getting any substance from the arguments other than 'risk', but I hear what you're saying.
There's more to it than just risk and padding the squad in case of injuries.
For example, if we assume that we're planning to buy a fantastic second striker / winger in the summer to replace Bailey in the first eleven, I think we'd be doing better right now had we just signed them in January.
That can obviously be countered with "their club might not have wanted to sell them in January". Which is obviously true, but as a rule of thumb, the sort of shit-hot player that we could only possibly sign in the summer isn't the sort of player whose club will want to sell at all.
They might be just as unavailable in the summer as they turned out to be in January. They might have a storming second half of the season and we find £40m added to their price. Or find that they're now being sold to Man City instead. Or that their team has qualified for the Champions League that they were sticking around to help with, and the player now wants to stay and play in the Champions League rather than joining us.
If we are in a strong financial position (which I believe we are), with engaged owners (which I believe we have) and a squad that barely has enough players to name a match-day squad (which it does) and there is a small pool of very specific playerss we have decided that we really need to the extent that we don't want to consider any alternatives to those players - just buy the buggers.
Equally though you can counter this argument by looking at players contracts. Say, for instance, the shit-hot winger we want to sign has 18 months left on his contract. As it is mid-season, his team rightly or wrongly will say we want full whack for him, that will be £60 million to you. We spend the £60 million on player that 6 months later is available for less than half that, because now the selling club has a deadline to get rid of him - that is then £30 million we haven't got to spend on the shit-hot CB we also want.
It's also then not just a case of saying our owners are loaded, so spend the extra £30 million as well - FFP, P&S or whatever it is now will stop us from doing that.
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If we had been in any danger of going down, or were right in the mix for a European place then we should have strengthened in January - that wasn't the case though, so it's not like under Bruce where we were gambling the house. Nothing in life is ever certain, but if finishing 11th rather than 8th this season means next year we will have a better chance of Europe or a cup win because we are able to get in the players we actually want then it is a price worth paying.
We're 4 points off 6. Now chuck Thuram / Tammy & Guendouzi (insert fantasy player here) into the squad.
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If we had been in any danger of going down, or were right in the mix for a European place then we should have strengthened in January - that wasn't the case though, so it's not like under Bruce where we were gambling the house. Nothing in life is ever certain, but if finishing 11th rather than 8th this season means next year we will have a better chance of Europe or a cup win because we are able to get in the players we actually want then it is a price worth paying.
We're 4 points off 6. Now chuck Thuram / Tammy & Guendouzi (insert fantasy player here) into the squad.
So why is it then that almost every other club does the vast majority of their important business in the summer? It isn't as easy as throwing money at it and 'getting them in', quite clearly.
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Not pissed off, and yes essentially I'm rehashing the same conversation, just with some hindsight. Only reason I poked a little there was not getting any substance from the arguments other than 'risk', but I hear what you're saying.
There's more to it than just risk and padding the squad in case of injuries.
For example, if we assume that we're planning to buy a fantastic second striker / winger in the summer to replace Bailey in the first eleven, I think we'd be doing better right now had we just signed them in January.
That can obviously be countered with "their club might not have wanted to sell them in January". Which is obviously true, but as a rule of thumb, the sort of shit-hot player that we could only possibly sign in the summer isn't the sort of player whose club will want to sell at all.
They might be just as unavailable in the summer as they turned out to be in January. They might have a storming second half of the season and we find £40m added to their price. Or find that they're now being sold to Man City instead. Or that their team has qualified for the Champions League that they were sticking around to help with, and the player now wants to stay and play in the Champions League rather than joining us.
If we are in a strong financial position (which I believe we are), with engaged owners (which I believe we have) and a squad that barely has enough players to name a match-day squad (which it does) and there is a small pool of very specific playerss we have decided that we really need to the extent that we don't want to consider any alternatives to those players - just buy the buggers.
Equally though you can counter this argument by looking at players contracts. Say, for instance, the shit-hot winger we want to sign has 18 months left on his contract. As it is mid-season, his team rightly or wrongly will say we want full whack for him, that will be £60 million to you. We spend the £60 million on player that 6 months later is available for less than half that, because now the selling club has a deadline to get rid of him - that is then £30 million we haven't got to spend on the shit-hot CB we also want.
Of course. None of this is an exact science - but the scenario you outline then throws up further realistic issues in the summer.
What if they then decide they want to do a Kamara, sit out the next twelve months of their contract and leave for nothing? Do we wait for another 12 months? There are other parties with input to this situation beyond us just deciding we want to save a bit of money.
What if they do a Caicedo at Brighton, sign a new contract with a big pay-rise in February and a new release clause of £80m? All of a sudden our decision to save £30m has now cost us an extra £20m.
The problem as I see it is that for "leave it to the summer" to be a fool-proof strategy, we are looking for a player with all of the following attributes:
(1) Such a good player that it is him, and only him that we could consider signing
(2) However, not such a good player that the likes of Napoli, Liverpool, Dortmund, Arsenal and other more attractive options would want to sign him ahead of us
(3) So desperate to join us that we're not worried about him wanting to stay with his current club or move somewhere else instead of us in the summer
(4) ...but not desperate enough to kick up a fuss about joining us in January.
There are a million hypotheticals about what might happen in the summer as a result of what we did or didn't do in January - the only certainty is that right now there are players who we would like to be playing for us, who we hope will be playing for us in the future, who currently aren't.
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I think it's impossible to really answer this because there are too many hypotheticals.
Chris, for example, mentions that IF we didn't complete some deals over a few millions quid then it's short-sighted, and he's probably right BUT we have no idea if that happened with any of our targets.
As an alternative if Emery wants Guendouzi and Williams and had agreements with the players, agents and clubs to complete those deals in the summer then our options change because what we were then looking for towards the end of the window was loans of players who would improve us in the short-term but with no obligation on future purchases, etc. Those sort of players will have been a lot more difficult to find.
I'd hope that no one wanted us to either bring in pointless loans (Drinkwater, Bednarek, Augustinsson) who don't really add anything other than being a body on the bench, or make signings who weren't as good as the players we actually want and are waiting for.
I get it's risky and I get it's frustrating but I'd love us to get away from signing players just because we can.
As an example at the end of the summer we signed dendoncker and lots of people thought it was a panic buy. If we'd signed no one I suspect many of those same people would've also moaned that we hadn't strengthened the squad. Earlier in the window there are other choices but on the final day(s) these are the options, anything else has been exhausted.
So, sign no one or make a panic buy, which would you choose? No other options.
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We also have some top kids returning from loan. Buying players who aren’t exactly what we want not only tied up cash we would have used in the summer but likely blocks the progress of the likes of Archer, Tim, Ramsey etc. It was a risk and I’m glad it hasn’t affected us too badly thus far. But if we do get through the season without any more significant injuries we will be very well positioned to build properly. Fingers and everything else crossed.
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If we had been in any danger of going down, or were right in the mix for a European place then we should have strengthened in January - that wasn't the case though, so it's not like under Bruce where we were gambling the house. Nothing in life is ever certain, but if finishing 11th rather than 8th this season means next year we will have a better chance of Europe or a cup win because we are able to get in the players we actually want then it is a price worth paying.
We're 4 points off 6. Now chuck Thuram / Tammy & Guendouzi (insert fantasy player here) into the squad.
So why is it then that almost every other club does the vast majority of their important business in the summer? It isn't as easy as throwing money at it and 'getting them in', quite clearly.
Nobody said it's easy. But that's not really relevant to that particular post.
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If we had been in any danger of going down, or were right in the mix for a European place then we should have strengthened in January - that wasn't the case though, so it's not like under Bruce where we were gambling the house. Nothing in life is ever certain, but if finishing 11th rather than 8th this season means next year we will have a better chance of Europe or a cup win because we are able to get in the players we actually want then it is a price worth paying.
We're 4 points off 6. Now chuck Thuram / Tammy & Guendouzi (insert fantasy player here) into the squad.
Having played more games than everyone between 5th and 7th. Since the window closed we have only lost to Arsenal, Man City and Leicester. I'll give Leicester as a game where we should have done better, (and even then this was only a few days after the window so whoever we signed might not have played), but realistically how many more points would we have won even if we'd signed another 2 players?
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So, sign no one or make a panic buy, which would you choose? No other options.
But outside of a message-board thought experiment, those aren't the only two options.
Here's one:
As an alternative if Emery wants Guendouzi and Williams and had agreements with the players, agents and clubs to complete those deals in the summer
Scribble out "the summer" on those agreements and stick "January 2023" there instead.
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If we had been in any danger of going down, or were right in the mix for a European place then we should have strengthened in January - that wasn't the case though, so it's not like under Bruce where we were gambling the house. Nothing in life is ever certain, but if finishing 11th rather than 8th this season means next year we will have a better chance of Europe or a cup win because we are able to get in the players we actually want then it is a price worth paying.
We're 4 points off 6. Now chuck Thuram / Tammy & Guendouzi (insert fantasy player here) into the squad.
Having played more games than everyone between 5th and 7th. Since the window closed we have only lost to Arsenal, Man City and Leicester. I'll give Leicester as a game where we should have done better, (and even then this was only a few days after the window so whoever we signed might not have played), but realistically how many more points would we have won even if we'd signed another 2 players?
Again it's not the point. We've been (reasonably) lucky with injuries and are 'in the mix' for top 8. We may or may not have gained more points with an elite player or two added to the squad. But I don't think it's a huge stretch to say that come the end of the season there may have been a points swing. But again, that's not the whole point. If Ollie had picked up a serious injury we're playing a kid who at the moment Emery clearly thinks isn't ready for more than 5 minute cameos. With Kamar injured we're relying on SJM in the pivot, which he's made a good fist of but we all know he's not suited to.
But then we've been over this. So in a shorter answer to Corey's question- 'No.'
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So, sign no one or make a panic buy, which would you choose? No other options.
But outside of a message-board thought experiment, those aren't the only two options.
Here's one:
As an alternative if Emery wants Guendouzi and Williams and had agreements with the players, agents and clubs to complete those deals in the summer
Scribble out "the summer" on those agreements and stick "January 2023" there instead.
with maybe an extra million to the player and £3m to the club to oil the wheels.
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If we had been in any danger of going down, or were right in the mix for a European place then we should have strengthened in January - that wasn't the case though, so it's not like under Bruce where we were gambling the house. Nothing in life is ever certain, but if finishing 11th rather than 8th this season means next year we will have a better chance of Europe or a cup win because we are able to get in the players we actually want then it is a price worth paying.
We're 4 points off 6. Now chuck Thuram / Tammy & Guendouzi (insert fantasy player here) into the squad.
Having played more games than everyone between 5th and 7th. Since the window closed we have only lost to Arsenal, Man City and Leicester. I'll give Leicester as a game where we should have done better, (and even then this was only a few days after the window so whoever we signed might not have played), but realistically how many more points would we have won even if we'd signed another 2 players?
Much of the discussion was about us being reduced to a very skimpy squad and having next to zero injury cover for the remainder of the season.
You can't really assess whether those were sensible fears to have with so much of the season still left to play.
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So, sign no one or make a panic buy, which would you choose? No other options.
But outside of a message-board thought experiment, those aren't the only two options.
Here's one:
As an alternative if Emery wants Guendouzi and Williams and had agreements with the players, agents and clubs to complete those deals in the summer
Scribble out "the summer" on those agreements and stick "January 2023" there instead.
Not really, the point I'm making is that if you've tried to do that and it hasn't happened then you will, eventually, reach a point where you only have those 2 choices. My question isn't about critiquing the entire process throughout the month but whittling it down to the point where you know there are gaps in the squad so do you fill them with whatever you can get or do you wait until the next window. I think both of those options have risks and neither is good but that's pretty clearly where we were at the end of January.
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If we had been in any danger of going down, or were right in the mix for a European place then we should have strengthened in January - that wasn't the case though, so it's not like under Bruce where we were gambling the house. Nothing in life is ever certain, but if finishing 11th rather than 8th this season means next year we will have a better chance of Europe or a cup win because we are able to get in the players we actually want then it is a price worth paying.
We're 4 points off 6. Now chuck Thuram / Tammy & Guendouzi (insert fantasy player here) into the squad.
Having played more games than everyone between 5th and 7th. Since the window closed we have only lost to Arsenal, Man City and Leicester. I'll give Leicester as a game where we should have done better, (and even then this was only a few days after the window so whoever we signed might not have played), but realistically how many more points would we have won even if we'd signed another 2 players?
Much of the discussion was about us being reduced to a very skimpy squad and having next to zero injury cover for the remainder of the season.
You can't really assess whether those were sensible fears to have with so much of the season still left to play.
We don't have a particularly skimpy squad though - if anything it was massively bloated before the window with the likes of Sanson, Nakamba, Bednarek, Ings et al eating up huge amounts in wages when they realistically might end up playing a handful of games between them. A lot is made about us having 2 keepers on the bench, but the reality is that the whole 9 subs things is only a sop to the teams playing in Europe anyway - there are very few clubs who would bring on their 8th or 9 choice sub whatever the circumstance.
Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
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Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
Dendoncker is a reserve at best anyway, and Coutinho was hardly first choice under Emery. Cash picked up his injury since we last played, so it's impossible to say what effect his absence will have on our form.
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Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
Dendoncker is a reserve at best anyway, and Coutinho was hardly first choice under Emery. Cash picked up his injury since we last played, so it's impossible to say what effect his absence will have on our form.
The argument was what would we do if we got injuries. It's pointed out that we have had them, and suddenly it's 'no, not those players'. The point that was made was that we have a paper-thin squad, and these examples show that we have been able to cope with injuries without it having an impact so we were never that badly off. If you take out 5 first team regulars from any club they would struggle, so we're not in some uniquely bad position.
Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants though, the other important point for lots of us is we still think of how we got ourselves into the mess we did over the last 10 years (and actually further back than that if you want to look at it). Going back to John Gregory and all the way up to Steve Bruce we spent huge money and wages on substandard, stop-gap players with no long-term planning. We aren't Chelsea, Man City or now Newcastle who have effectively had access to unlimited money and can afford to make these mistakes. For once we seem to have a manager who understands what we need to do, and if it means holding back in a season when we aren't in any danger then I don't see the problem. Especially so when he has already demonstrated that there is potentially a lot more talent in the existing squad than we might have given them credit for.
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Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants
I haven't seen a single person argue that we should sign players the manager doesn't want. Where the fuck are you getting that from?
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Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
Dendoncker is a reserve at best anyway, and Coutinho was hardly first choice under Emery. Cash picked up his injury since we last played, so it's impossible to say what effect his absence will have on our form.
The argument was what would we do if we got injuries. It's pointed out that we have had them, and suddenly it's 'no, not those players'. The point that was made was that we have a paper-thin squad, and these examples show that we have been able to cope with injuries without it having an impact so we were never that badly off. If you take out 5 first team regulars from any club they would struggle, so we're not in some uniquely bad position.
Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants though, the other important point for lots of us is we still think of how we got ourselves into the mess we did over the last 10 years (and actually further back than that if you want to look at it). Going back to John Gregory and all the way up to Steve Bruce we spent huge money and wages on substandard, stop-gap players with no long-term planning. We aren't Chelsea, Man City or now Newcastle who have effectively had access to unlimited money and can afford to make these mistakes. For once we seem to have a manager who understands what we need to do, and if it means holding back in a season when we aren't in any danger then I don't see the problem. Especially so when he has already demonstrated that there is potentially a lot more talent in the existing squad than we might have given them credit for.
You seem to be a master of coming up with arguments that nobody has made.
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Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants
I haven't seen a single person argue that we should sign players the manager doesn't want. Where the fuck are you getting that from?
No, just a master on picking people up on bullshit
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Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants
I haven't seen a single person argue that we should sign players the manager doesn't want. Where the fuck are you getting that from?
There are plenty of people here saying we should have signed more players in the window. If the manager's first choices weren't available or weren't affordable at that time, then who exactly would he be signing?
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Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants
I haven't seen a single person argue that we should sign players the manager doesn't want. Where the fuck are you getting that from?
There are plenty of people here saying we should have signed more players in the window. If the manager's first choices weren't available or weren't affordable at that time, then who exactly would he be signing?
Yes we should. And certainly not players the manager didn't want. I honestly get the impression you simply haven't listened to anything anyone has said on this Pat.
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Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants
I haven't seen a single person argue that we should sign players the manager doesn't want. Where the fuck are you getting that from?
There are plenty of people here saying we should have signed more players in the window. If the manager's first choices weren't available or weren't affordable at that time, then who exactly would he be signing?
Yes we should. And certainly not players the manager didn't want. I honestly get the impression you simply haven't listened to anything anyone has said on this Pat.
Okay, just to get this into my tiny little brain. We should have signed players that the manager wanted in January, even if those players weren't available.
Oh, and if you are going to criticise someone for not listening to an argument you might want to read all of what they said, not just crop one line from a wider point.
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If you read what people have posted you'll see the points they are making. And I can assure you it's not buying shit players who the manager doesn't want.
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This is all my fault
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Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants
I haven't seen a single person argue that we should sign players the manager doesn't want. Where the fuck are you getting that from?
There are plenty of people here saying we should have signed more players in the window. If the manager's first choices weren't available or weren't affordable at that time, then who exactly would he be signing?
Yes we should. And certainly not players the manager didn't want. I honestly get the impression you simply haven't listened to anything anyone has said on this Pat.
Okay, just to get this into my tiny little brain. We should have signed players that the manager wanted in January, even if those players weren't available.
If there is a player that our (seemingly very good) manager wants playing for us, then our (seemingly less good) recruitment staff should have done much better than they did to get them for him.
Player availability isn't gravity.
Is it completely impossible to consider that the people responsible for bringing us the likes of Gerrard, Bednarek and Olsen might not be completely perfect when it comes to the task of player recruitment?
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If you read what people have posted you'll see the points they are making. And I can assure you it's not buying shit players who the manager doesn't want.
And if you read what I said the argument isn’t about signing shit players the manager doesn’t want. It’s about getting away from making do with players who are no better than what we have and then bloat the squad and wage bill, and block the path to the first team for young players.
January this season was the first time in years we haven’t been going into the second half of the season either looking over our shoulders at relegation, or making a desperate attempt to get promoted. In those circumstances it would be more understandable to fill our squad places on the off-chance of injuries, but this time we didn’t have to do that and what we didn’t spend in January (as well as what we recouped in sales and getting wages off the payroll) gives us more scope to get who we really want in the summer.
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There's the other angle that said players were unconvinced by our upturn in form by January but might be if it was continued, or simply wanted to finish the season with their current club to achieve a goal before leaving.
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Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
Dendoncker is a reserve at best anyway, and Coutinho was hardly first choice under Emery. Cash picked up his injury since we last played, so it's impossible to say what effect his absence will have on our form.
Yes, but it fills your criteria of 9 players on the bench and only one goalie in that nine.
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Aside from the merits of waiting to spend money on players the manager actually wants
I haven't seen a single person argue that we should sign players the manager doesn't want. Where the fuck are you getting that from?
There are plenty of people here saying we should have signed more players in the window. If the manager's first choices weren't available or weren't affordable at that time, then who exactly would he be signing?
Yes we should. And certainly not players the manager didn't want. I honestly get the impression you simply haven't listened to anything anyone has said on this Pat.
Okay, just to get this into my tiny little brain. We should have signed players that the manager wanted in January, even if those players weren't available.
If there is a player that our (seemingly very good) manager wants playing for us, then our (seemingly less good) recruitment staff should have done much better than they did to get them for him.
Player availability isn't gravity.
Is it completely impossible to consider that the people responsible for bringing us the likes of Gerrard, Bednarek and Olsen might not be completely perfect when it comes to the task of player recruitment?
What if the players we want said they'd come but wanted to finish the season with their current club? What if their clubs said they could leave in the summer but not before?
What if Emery said I want him, him or him, and they just weren't available for the reasons above (or that the fees were astronomical etc) and that he was happy to wait until the summer because he could work with what we had?
He let Bednarek go because Carlos was fit again. He let Ings go, for a half decent fee, because he knew he didn't want him longer term, he let Archer go because he was similar to Watkins and knew he was unlikely to get a game. Nakamba and Sanson never played anyway.
What's the point in trying to buy players that aren't available (or aren't for the right fee)? What if the manager has specific targets and they just weren't available?
You make it sound so easy to just go and buy the players you want. We all know it's just not that easy, unless you decide to put players on 9 year contracts and spend more than the rest of Europe together on fees.
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I think we're a far more attractive option now than we were last summer, or in January, or, in fact, at any time for the past 10 years. If we keep our form up until the end of the season, then we'll be in a strong position with lots of positives to sell.
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And on the 9 subs rule, you can only put 5 of them on the pitch. There's not much point keeping players who will likely never get a game, see Sanson, Nakamba, Bednarek, and to a degree Ings.
Yes we'd have 9 but what's point, they'd never play.
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I think we're a far more attractive option now than we were last summer, or in January, or, in fact, at any time for the past 10 years. If we keep our form up until the end of the season, then we'll be in a strong position with lots of positives to sell.
This is true and we're achieving that with a thin squad. Because we haven't suffered the injury that could have taken this the other way. The question Corey asked was essentially now we've done pretty well do you now agree it was the right choice? I think what Risso and I are saying is 'not really.' We're glad we've done well but we see it as we took an unnecessary risk. I went on to wonder that if in a similar scenario to the one you described as the player and club preferring to wait until the summer, would an extra few million quid have been persuasive? If so, that may have been money well spent, particularly if the injury we fear happened / happens.
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This is all my fault
Ha ha, that made me laugh a lot.
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Unai Emery: "Joao Felix deal in January was not totally impossible for us, but he wanted to play for a team in the Champions League". ✨🇵🇹 #AVFC
"He has a high salary and Chelsea paid a lot of money for that. I like him but we were never really in the running for him".
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Unai Emery: "Joao Felix deal in January was not totally impossible for us, but he wanted to play for a team in the Champions League". ✨🇵🇹 #AVFC
"He has a high salary and Chelsea paid a lot of money for that. I like him but we were never really in the running for him".
I’d guess their shared agent made it “not totally impossible” in the sense if no one else came in he would have come.
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Unai Emery: "Joao Felix deal in January was not totally impossible for us, but he wanted to play for a team in the Champions League". ✨🇵🇹 #AVFC
"He has a high salary and Chelsea paid a lot of money for that. I like him but we were never really in the running for him".
Can you play for two different teams on the CL in the same season?
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Unai Emery: "Joao Felix deal in January was not totally impossible for us, but he wanted to play for a team in the Champions League". ✨🇵🇹 #AVFC
"He has a high salary and Chelsea paid a lot of money for that. I like him but we were never really in the running for him".
Can you play for two different teams on the CL in the same season?
Someone else on here asked this a short while back and apparently the rules changed a season or two ago, so yes.
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Chelsea and Southampton were the 2 highest spenders in January, did neither of them much good.
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Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
Dendoncker is a reserve at best anyway, and Coutinho was hardly first choice under Emery. Cash picked up his injury since we last played, so it's impossible to say what effect his absence will have on our form.
Yes, but it fills your criteria of 9 players on the bench and only one goalie in that nine.
Also, any signings we would've made go straight into that alleged Dendoncker/Coutinho category by virtue of not being first choice, so who cares if they're injured and/or been signed at all?
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Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
Dendoncker is a reserve at best anyway, and Coutinho was hardly first choice under Emery. Cash picked up his injury since we last played, so it's impossible to say what effect his absence will have on our form.
Yes, but it fills your criteria of 9 players on the bench and only one goalie in that nine.
Also, any signings we would've made go straight into that alleged Dendoncker/Coutinho category by virtue of not being first choice, so who cares if they're injured and/or been signed at all?
Is there something that says we're not allowed to buy better players than the ones we already have?
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Unai Emery: "Joao Felix deal in January was not totally impossible for us, but he wanted to play for a team in the Champions League". ✨🇵🇹 #AVFC
"He has a high salary and Chelsea paid a lot of money for that. I like him but we were never really in the running for him".
Can you play for two different teams on the CL in the same season?
Someone else on here asked this a short while back and apparently the rules changed a season or two ago, so yes.
Ta
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Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
Dendoncker is a reserve at best anyway, and Coutinho was hardly first choice under Emery. Cash picked up his injury since we last played, so it's impossible to say what effect his absence will have on our form.
Yes, but it fills your criteria of 9 players on the bench and only one goalie in that nine.
Also, any signings we would've made go straight into that alleged Dendoncker/Coutinho category by virtue of not being first choice, so who cares if they're injured and/or been signed at all?
Is there something that says we're not allowed to buy better players than the ones we already have?
Which makes the suggestion we turned down opportunities to improve the first 11?
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Since the window we have had injuries to Coutinho, Dendoncker, Kamara and Cash so it's not like we've been especially lucky on that front, and it hasn't seriously undermined our form.
Dendoncker is a reserve at best anyway, and Coutinho was hardly first choice under Emery. Cash picked up his injury since we last played, so it's impossible to say what effect his absence will have on our form.
Yes, but it fills your criteria of 9 players on the bench and only one goalie in that nine.
Also, any signings we would've made go straight into that alleged Dendoncker/Coutinho category by virtue of not being first choice, so who cares if they're injured and/or been signed at all?
Is there something that says we're not allowed to buy better players than the ones we already have?
Which makes the suggestion we turned down opportunities to improve the first 11?
Negotiating the signing of a footballer isn't like a more tattooed version of the Argos catalogue, where you flick through and say yes to the ones that you want.
It's a complicated mesh of competition, research and negotation on about five different fronts. Some people will be better at it than others. And I feel that if we had the same quality of person in those roles as we do managing the team then January would probably have panned out differently.
I just find it very surprising that people are looking at the patchy records of Lange and Purselow over the last few years and have decided that there it's impossible that somebody else could potentially be doing a better job.
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I 100% agree with all of that and it is certainly a possibility. As is "the right players weren't available at the right price/at all/went elsewhere". The truth is we don't know and if that's where the line in the sand lies the whole forum would be better off leaving it for now. We can pick this back up in the summer when we're not busy brushing aside Spurs and Chelsea on their own patch.
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There's maybe an argument that Lange's performance can be made to look better or worse depending on who coaches the players he signs.
And that he was effectively fucked over by Purslow and the decision to appoint Gerrard.
Now Emery is getting a tune out of the squad, the players are looking better value.
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To be honest the majority of the team were from pre Lange though?
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To be honest the majority of the team were from pre Lange though?
Mostly yes. I’m not convinced by Bailey whatsoever, still have reservations about Buendia and obviously Ings has been packed off already.
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A great part of our recruitment over the last few years has been the ability to keep what we do out of the press until we announce something. Whoever’s at the club I really hope this continues.
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I 100% agree with all of that and it is certainly a possibility. As is "the right players weren't available at the right price/at all/went elsewhere".
But that's not a completely separate thing to what I posted. The right players might have been available to somebody better at the job of trying to sign them.
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Negotiating the signing of a footballer isn't like a more tattooed version of the Argos catalogue, where you flick through and say yes to the ones that you want.
It's a complicated mesh of competition, research and negotation on about five different fronts. Some people will be better at it than others. And I feel that if we had the same quality of person in those roles as we do managing the team then January would probably have panned out differently.
I just find it very surprising that people are looking at the patchy records of Lange and Purselow over the last few years and have decided that there it's impossible that somebody else could potentially be doing a better job.
All I'd say is that I don't think think it's impossible that their records were made worse by previous managers. We've been told many times that our transfers are handled by a committee and the manager is part of that. If Lange was recommending players and Smith/Gerrard said no what can they do?
We now have a manager who we know is good enough to deliver trophies and we can already see the impact he's having on the pitch and at the training ground. Given how meticulous he is in his planning (a theme in pretty much every player interview in the last few months) it's not a stretch to think that our shortlist of players he'd accept in January was very small. A handful of 10-15 players that Emery knows about and thought could improve us very quickly.
Duran will have been different because, as Emery himself has said, there was no expectations on him for this year, he was, in my opinion, just on the upper threshold of the same policy that has seen us signing players like Iroegbunam, Azaz, Feeney, etc as youngsters who can join us, improve and them either join the squad or move on for a profit.
The summer coming will be different because he'll have had the time to work with the scouts and make what he's looking for clearer, he'll have provided more options of players he likes and the scouting team will be using that list to find targets that will fit. If our signings in that window are poor/disappointing then we can start to question the scouting setup but for now I think it's only fair to give them a chance with a manager guiding things who is genuinely exceptional.
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I think it is really difficult to judge how good or otherwise Lange is - I think some of our spending over the last 4 windows has been poor but it’s difficult to know who made the decisions on which. Ings and Bailey had panic on it - but Bailey at the time I thought was good business but I have pretty much given up on him.
Beundia gets a pass - he’s pretty good but a long way off perfect.
The signing under Gerrard were mostly poor - but not sure who was behind them. Kamara is obviously class, and maybe so is Carlos, but the rest were either very shit like Olsen, or talented but struggling like Digne and Phil.
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I 100% agree with all of that and it is certainly a possibility. As is "the right players weren't available at the right price/at all/went elsewhere".
But that's not a completely separate thing to what I posted. The right players might have been available to somebody better at the job of trying to sign them.
That's why I said it was a possibility. As is my point. We don't know. Who cares. 2-0.
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I think it is really difficult to judge how good or otherwise Lange is - I think some of our spending over the last 4 windows has been poor but it’s difficult to know who made the decisions on which. Ings and Bailey had panic on it - but Bailey at the time I thought was good business but I have pretty much given up on him.
Beundia gets a pass - he’s pretty good but a long way off perfect.
The signing under Gerrard were mostly poor - but not sure who was behind them. Kamara is obviously class, and maybe so is Carlos, but the rest were either very shit like Olsen, or talented but struggling like Digne and Phil.
I think Digne has mostly been decent, and I’d be perfectly happy with him as one of our two left backs under Emery next year. Coutinho had just started to get back to what he’s capable of under Emery as well. I hope he’s still here next season and does what we know he can do. Olsen can most definitely do one though, and I’m not sure Dendoncker has much of a future.
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I think it is really difficult to judge how good or otherwise Lange is - I think some of our spending over the last 4 windows has been poor but it’s difficult to know who made the decisions on which. Ings and Bailey had panic on it - but Bailey at the time I thought was good business but I have pretty much given up on him.
Beundia gets a pass - he’s pretty good but a long way off perfect.
The signing under Gerrard were mostly poor - but not sure who was behind them. Kamara is obviously class, and maybe so is Carlos, but the rest were either very shit like Olsen, or talented but struggling like Digne and Phil.
I think Digne has mostly been decent, and I’d be perfectly happy with him as one of our two left backs under Emery next year. Coutinho had just started to get back to what he’s capable of under Emery as well. I hope he’s still here next season and does what we know he can do. Olsen can most definitely do one though, and I’m not sure Dendoncker has much of a future.
I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
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I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
Wasn't it simply that he wanted to go 3 at the back, with Chambers on the right, to nullify the threat from Chillwell.
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I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
Wasn't it simply that he wanted to go 3 at the back, with Chambers on the right, to nullify the threat from Chillwell.
You are right BV, i was in the pub and reasonably intoxicated and obviously didnt have a xlue who was there playing where.
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I think it is really difficult to judge how good or otherwise Lange is - I think some of our spending over the last 4 windows has been poor but it’s difficult to know who made the decisions on which. Ings and Bailey had panic on it - but Bailey at the time I thought was good business but I have pretty much given up on him.
Beundia gets a pass - he’s pretty good but a long way off perfect.
The signing under Gerrard were mostly poor - but not sure who was behind them. Kamara is obviously class, and maybe so is Carlos, but the rest were either very shit like Olsen, or talented but struggling like Digne and Phil.
I think Digne has mostly been decent, and I’d be perfectly happy with him as one of our two left backs under Emery next year. Coutinho had just started to get back to what he’s capable of under Emery as well. I hope he’s still here next season and does what we know he can do. Olsen can most definitely do one though, and I’m not sure Dendoncker has much of a future.
Digne and Coutinho are on big wages aren't they and it's obviously not ideal to have bit part players amongst your highest earners. As a result, I wouldn't be surprised to see us try and move both on in the summer, as freeing up that kind of money (would guess it would be £300,000 plus) would give us more options.
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I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
Wasn't it simply that he wanted to go 3 at the back, with Chambers on the right, to nullify the threat from Chillwell.
The Donk played in a 3 for Belgium, did ok too at the WC. Don't think Emery rates him all that much and he's running out of opportunities to impress..
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I suspect with Digne, if we got a brilliant offer we'd move him on, but otherwise I don't think we'll be focusing much attention on the LB position when there's work to be done elsewhere in the squad.
Much in the way that we probably didn't set out to sell Ings, but received a good offer and opportunistically took it.
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I think it is really difficult to judge how good or otherwise Lange is - I think some of our spending over the last 4 windows has been poor but it’s difficult to know who made the decisions on which. Ings and Bailey had panic on it - but Bailey at the time I thought was good business but I have pretty much given up on him.
If you think back to that US Presidental address the nation style statement Purslow recorded when Grealish left, he talked about how they'd identified which parts of his game we'd be lacking in and found three players who would give us that back - Bailey, Buendia and Ings.
it sounded very much like they'd put a fair amount of thought into it - which is what you'd expect Purslow to want it to sound like - but then it's almost impossible to see Ings as anything other than a random, spur of the moment punt.
I think Purslow knows his stuff in general, but I am far from convinced of his sincerity at times.
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I think it is really difficult to judge how good or otherwise Lange is - I think some of our spending over the last 4 windows has been poor but it’s difficult to know who made the decisions on which. Ings and Bailey had panic on it - but Bailey at the time I thought was good business but I have pretty much given up on him.
If you think back to that US Presidental address the nation style statement Purslow recorded when Grealish left, he talked about how they'd identified which parts of his game we'd be lacking in and found three players who would give us that back - Bailey, Buendia and Ings.
it sounded very much like they'd put a fair amount of thought into it - which is what you'd expect Purslow to want it to sound like - but then it's almost impossible to see Ings as anything other than a random, spur of the moment punt.
I think Purslow knows his stuff in general, but I am far from convinced of his sincerity at times.
I'm not a man for conspiracy, but on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatsoever I firmly believe Purslow had been sounding Gerrard out for the job over the summer and he'd indicated that Ings would be a good buy.
If you think about it, Ings profile makes more sense when grouped with the signings Gerrad made than what went before.
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I suspect with Digne, if we got a brilliant offer we'd move him on, but otherwise I don't think we'll be focusing much attention on the LB position when there's work to be done elsewhere in the squad.
Much in the way that we probably didn't set out to sell Ings, but received a good offer and opportunistically took it.
Given his age and the relative lack of impact he's had, we'd be lucky to get half back what we paid for Digne.
He looked quite tanned when he came on as a sub. Must have had a nice little holiday during the international break. Unai should have allowed him to go no further than Dublin, free of sunshine and beach balls.
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I suspect with Digne, if we got a brilliant offer we'd move him on, but otherwise I don't think we'll be focusing much attention on the LB position when there's work to be done elsewhere in the squad.
Much in the way that we probably didn't set out to sell Ings, but received a good offer and opportunistically took it.
Given his age and the relative lack of impact he's had, we'd be lucky to get half back what we paid for Digne.
He looked quite tanned when he came on as a sub. Must have had a nice little holiday during the international break. Unai should have allowed him to go no further than Dublin, free of sunshine and beach balls.
Maybe he went to Marbella to immerse himself in Spannish language and culture to get in the gaffers good books
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It’s also hard to judge Lange’s dealings with complete accuracy without knowing which signings were his recommendations and which came from other sources. Coutinho seems like one that was down to Gerrard. And it appears as though back channeling with agents is becoming more and more common.
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I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
Wasn't it simply that he wanted to go 3 at the back, with Chambers on the right, to nullify the threat from Chillwell.
The Donk played in a 3 for Belgium, did ok too at the WC. Don't think Emery rates him all that much and he's running out of opportunities to impress..
Think he was also mainly a CB at Anderlecht before playing more in midfield at Wolves.
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I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
Wasn't it simply that he wanted to go 3 at the back, with Chambers on the right, to nullify the threat from Chillwell.
The Donk played in a 3 for Belgium, did ok too at the WC. Don't think Emery rates him all that much and he's running out of opportunities to impress..
Think he was also mainly a CB at Anderlecht before playing more in midfield at Wolves.
He was an absolute must buy on Championship Manager as a youngster at Anderlecht, he'd underpin a decade of success from the base of the midfield.
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I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
Wasn't it simply that he wanted to go 3 at the back, with Chambers on the right, to nullify the threat from Chillwell.
The Donk played in a 3 for Belgium, did ok too at the WC. Don't think Emery rates him all that much and he's running out of opportunities to impress..
I don't think he's ever forgiven him for that Stevenage miscontrol and subsequent red card.
Yes Kamara did the same a few weeks later but that was just a league game and loss of three points rather than the cup where we could've had a really good run way draw opened up.
Donk is limited but he did start the wins v Brentford and Man. United which were fantastic performances so we've signed far far worse in 12-15m bracket.
If we move him, Sanson and Marvellous on full time in summer that will give us enough space to have Tim in first team squad and also sign a Guendouzi type so with the existing set that's more than enough for first six months of next season (even if we make europe).
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I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
Wasn't it simply that he wanted to go 3 at the back, with Chambers on the right, to nullify the threat from Chillwell.
The Donk played in a 3 for Belgium, did ok too at the WC. Don't think Emery rates him all that much and he's running out of opportunities to impress..
I don't think he's ever forgiven him for that Stevenage miscontrol and subsequent red card.
Yes Kamara did the same a few weeks later but that was just a league game and loss of three points rather than the cup where we could've had a really good run way draw opened up.
Donk is limited but he did start the wins v Brentford and Man. United which were fantastic performances so we've signed far far worse in 12-15m bracket.
If we move him, Sanson and Marvellous on full time in summer that will give us enough space to have Tim in first team squad and also sign a Guendouzi type so with the existing set that's more than enough for first six months of next season (even if we make europe).
The Donk is a strange one for me. He has an excellent pedigree at club and international level. We were in dire need of some physical presence in midfield when he signed. But since the Stevenage game he's hardly had a sniff, granted Luiz in particular has been excellent and he's had that hand injury too. I thought it a bit strange Kamara started yesterday ahead of the Donk and then Chambers coming into a 3 suggest he's a long way down the pecking order really.
I see Twitter bots raving about Nakamba's performance for Luton yesterday and Sanson seems to be going very well on loan too. At least we might get some money back on all three in the summer with Tim and probably Guendouzi coming in.
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I thought it was possibly telling that Chambers got the nod over Donk at half time.
Wasn't it simply that he wanted to go 3 at the back, with Chambers on the right, to nullify the threat from Chillwell.
The Donk played in a 3 for Belgium, did ok too at the WC. Don't think Emery rates him all that much and he's running out of opportunities to impress..
I don't think he's ever forgiven him for that Stevenage miscontrol and subsequent red card.
Yes Kamara did the same a few weeks later but that was just a league game and loss of three points rather than the cup where we could've had a really good run way draw opened up.
Donk is limited but he did start the wins v Brentford and Man. United which were fantastic performances so we've signed far far worse in 12-15m bracket.
If we move him, Sanson and Marvellous on full time in summer that will give us enough space to have Tim in first team squad and also sign a Guendouzi type so with the existing set that's more than enough for first six months of next season (even if we make europe).
The Donk is a strange one for me. He has an excellent pedigree at club and international level. We were in dire need of some physical presence in midfield when he signed. But since the Stevenage game he's hardly had a sniff, granted Luiz in particular has been excellent and he's had that hand injury too. I thought it a bit strange Kamara started yesterday ahead of the Donk and then Chambers coming into a 3 suggest he's a long way down the pecking order really.
I see Twitter bots raving about Nakamba's performance for Luton yesterday and Sanson seems to be going very well on loan too. At least we might get some money back on all three in the summer with Tim and probably Guendouzi coming in.
Costly Stevenage slip up aside, I don't really think Dendoncker has done a lot wrong and is an adequate squad option. Didn't cost much and is unlikely to be on huge wages either.
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I suspect with Digne, if we got a brilliant offer we'd move him on, but otherwise I don't think we'll be focusing much attention on the LB position when there's work to be done elsewhere in the squad.
Much in the way that we probably didn't set out to sell Ings, but received a good offer and opportunistically took it.
Think it's his wages that might be an issue. Pretty sure he is one of the top earners at the club.
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Yep, seemed to be a sop to Gerrard - his first signing as manager, Everton fans angry to see him go, blaming Benitez, seems like we're pulling off a coup. Here's £125k a week for you, son.
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Seen reports it’s actually closer to £165k.
Mental, if so.