Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on November 18, 2022, 12:16:09 PM
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Richard Keeling on a new development.
https://heroesandvillains.info/2022/11/18/the-dark-arts/
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The one thing that always cracks me up regarding “dark arts” is that it is labelled as “game management” when a media favourite club do it & its “clever”. But when Villa do it, we are time wasting, cheating & “SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!”. I don’t like the so called “dark arts”. Even less so when I heard that Steve Sidwell, (a player whose only positive influence at Villa was as a ball-boy when we scored from a quick throw in he had helped instigate), had gone to Reading to specifically teach it to their academy players a few years back. Seeing the Chelsea academy players doing it & being shouted to do it by their bench during a Youth Cup semi final a decade or so back when I could have run onto the pitch & bitch slapped Gael Kakuta for the way he handled it & himself, angered me. It’s cowardly & it shows a deep distrust in your own teams ability to play the game of football. But I do get irritated when we get called out for it by the media, when they applaud one of their favourite clubs doing it. It’s either “game management”, or it’s cheating. There can be no grey area.
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We have been too soft for a long time (since Terry left) but like Pablo above I hate the deliberate slowing down the game, the pretending , the play acting.
I am not sure how the refs can deal with it though? Awarding extra time does not compensate as its about taking any momentum away from the opposition as much as it is about running the clock down.
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I couldn't give a toss about being anyone's second favourite team. I want to win, and win regularly. Ideally that would be playing an attractive brand of football, but it will need steel as well (the arsenal team of the late 90s certainly had both).
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We're not there to make it easy on the opponents. What next? Pundits moaning at groundsmen for narrowing the pitch within regulation size to hinder an opponent with flying wide players?
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
As I said on another thead, I'm quite happy to join the crusade to stamp out shithousery once we've completed our hat trick of Champions League wins.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
It is then that we will have arrived properly. Hated because we have broken the top 6, hated because we are masters of game management, hated because we get decisions going our way, hated because we have players who are hated by the opposition, hated because we don't roll over like we used to and hated because opposition fans can't sing "where were you when you were shit".
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
I don’t particularly care what fans of other clubs think of us, but the media is different. They have influence & can control the narrative. Which can affect officials.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
I don’t particularly care what fans of other clubs think of us, but the media is different. They have influence & can control the narrative. Which can affect officials.
It does affect the officials, they can't wait to pop the jackboots on and join in. I think that's one of the most important considerations for candidates PMGOL, do you cheer the Empire in Star Wars? If so, come on down.
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The media don't really give a shit about the Villa and they certainly don't give enough of a shit about us to deliberately single us out. The fact is, we do shithouse a lot these days. It started under Gerrard and seems to have carried on under Emery. There's no media bias against us and there's no chance that refs will be tipped off. I mean, a blind man could see what we get up to.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
why ?
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
why ?
Because successful teams always are.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
why ?
Because it means that we've won lots of trophies. The correlation between most-disliked team in every country is bang in line with most successful.
Man Utd. Real Madrid. Juventus. Bayern Munich. Paris St Germain. Be disliked like they are, and it won't be because because of badge or their kit.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
why ?
Because successful teams always are.
maybe so but the way the football world is now don't think anything will break that monopoly that the big teams hold in terms of financial clout
can you see villa being a force in the prem and qualifying for europe every season for the next 5 years ?
obviously its nostalgic looking back
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
why ?
Because successful teams always are.
maybe so but the way the football world is now don't think anything will break that monopoly that the big teams hold in terms of financial clout
can you see villa being a force in the prem and qualifying for europe every season for the next 5 years ?
obviously its nostalgic looking back
If Newcastle can do it we certainly can.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
why ?
Because successful teams always are.
maybe so but the way the football world is now don't think anything will break that monopoly that the big teams hold in terms of financial clout
can you see villa being a force in the prem and qualifying for europe every season for the next 5 years ?
obviously its nostalgic looking back
It's a really good question.
I think it's possible, I don't think it's easy though. The dice are very much stacked in favour of teams who are already in Europe (far more so than the last time either of our teams were in it!), and even more so in favour of the ones that are in the Champions League (and on top of that, ones that *do well* in the CL).
All that said - Leicester did it against all odds. It's possible, even if it's highly unlikely.
I dunno, next 5 years - if it's going to happen at all, we'll need to qualify for Europe in that period. More than once. Personally I think Champions League football is at least 5 years away and probably more than that. I'm far from convinced that Newcastle will do it this season. They're doing alright now, but it's less than half a season played & sides that have been stuttering - Liverpool, Manc Utd - could well kick in to gear after the break.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
why ?
to do a leicester will never happen again
Because successful teams always are.
maybe so but the way the football world is now don't think anything will break that monopoly that the big teams hold in terms of financial clout
can you see villa being a force in the prem and qualifying for europe every season for the next 5 years ?
obviously its nostalgic looking back
It's a really good question.
I think it's possible, I don't think it's easy though. The dice are very much stacked in favour of teams who are already in Europe (far more so than the last time either of our teams were in it!), and even more so in favour of the ones that are in the Champions League (and on top of that, ones that *do well* in the CL).
All that said - Leicester did it against all odds. It's possible, even if it's highly unlikely.
I dunno, next 5 years - if it's going to happen at all, we'll need to qualify for Europe in that period. More than once. Personally I think Champions League football is at least 5 years away and probably more than that. I'm far from convinced that Newcastle will do it this season. They're doing alright now, but it's less than half a season played & sides that have been stuttering - Liverpool, Manc Utd - could well kick in to gear after the break.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
why ?
to do a leicester will never happen again
Because successful teams always are.
maybe so but the way the football world is now don't think anything will break that monopoly that the big teams hold in terms of financial clout
can you see villa being a force in the prem and qualifying for europe every season for the next 5 years ?
obviously its nostalgic looking back
It's a really good question.
I think it's possible, I don't think it's easy though. The dice are very much stacked in favour of teams who are already in Europe (far more so than the last time either of our teams were in it!), and even more so in favour of the ones that are in the Champions League (and on top of that, ones that *do well* in the CL).
All that said - Leicester did it against all odds. It's possible, even if it's highly unlikely.
I dunno, next 5 years - if it's going to happen at all, we'll need to qualify for Europe in that period. More than once. Personally I think Champions League football is at least 5 years away and probably more than that. I'm far from convinced that Newcastle will do it this season. They're doing alright now, but it's less than half a season played & sides that have been stuttering - Liverpool, Manc Utd - could well kick in to gear after the break.
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I want us to be the most hated team in the world.
I'd like us to be hated either for battering everyone, or out of delusional bitterness (like how Newcastle or Leeds feel about us - because that is amusing).
I won't slag us, because I'm aware that I am naive. I'll trust the players and manager to achieve results as they see fit, but I'd still rather we play the game the right way.
I don't like it when other teams waste time, dive or hassle the referee, and I don't like it when we do.
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If the dark arts need to be applied strategically to help us win trophies and pick up points, I'm all in. How many times over the years has it happened to us? It's part of the game, it's what winning clubs do. The ideal is to be able to mix it up, play great football and shithouse.
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One of the best examples I remember of shithousery getting results was against Liverpool at Villa Park a good few years ago.1-0 up and they snatch a late equaliser which was bad enough. Into injury time and Gerrard drives forward and throws himself to the ground 25 yards out. He immediately gets into the face of the referee snarling and yelling for a free kick. The referee obliged and up stepped Mr Gerrard to smash it into the net for the winner. Cue pandemonium in their end. They couldn't give flying fuck about our feelings of being totally robbed. I saw a Red scum supporting pal the next day and told him what I thought of that cheating bastard Gerrard. He shrugged his shoulders and said something I've never forgotten "that's what winner's do" It would seem Gerrard started the process of instilling that into our players and Unai is going to take it to the next level by the looks of it. We've been on the receiving end of shithousery for years so if that's what it takes then so be it and fuck em all. It's what winner's do.
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One of the best examples I remember of shithousery getting results was against Liverpool at Villa Park a good few years ago.1-0 up and they snatch a late equaliser which was bad enough. Into injury time and Gerrard drives forward and throws himself to the ground 25 yards out. He immediately gets into the face of the referee snarling and yelling for a free kick. The referee obliged and up stepped Mr Gerrard to smash it into the net for the winner. Cue pandemonium in their end. They couldn't give flying fuck about our feelings of being totally robbed. I saw a Red scum supporting pal the next day and told him what I thought of that cheating bastard Gerrard. He shrugged his shoulders and said something I've never forgotten "that's what winner's do" It would seem Gerrard started the process of instilling that into our players and Unai is going to take it to the next level by the looks of it. We've been on the receiving end of shithousery for years so if that's what it takes then so be it and fuck em all. It's what winner's do.
Was that the postage stamp top corner free kick after his copyrighted starfish impression dive? Tbh, I have always despised Gerrard for stuff like that. I despise him even more after his failure at Villa, but that starfish impression made me want to bitch slap his tiny little turnip headed bonce, even when he did it against other clubs…
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One of the best examples I remember of shithousery getting results was against Liverpool at Villa Park a good few years ago.1-0 up and they snatch a late equaliser which was bad enough. Into injury time and Gerrard drives forward and throws himself to the ground 25 yards out. He immediately gets into the face of the referee snarling and yelling for a free kick. The referee obliged and up stepped Mr Gerrard to smash it into the net for the winner. Cue pandemonium in their end. They couldn't give flying fuck about our feelings of being totally robbed. I saw a Red scum supporting pal the next day and told him what I thought of that cheating bastard Gerrard. He shrugged his shoulders and said something I've never forgotten "that's what winner's do" It would seem Gerrard started the process of instilling that into our players and Unai is going to take it to the next level by the looks of it. We've been on the receiving end of shithousery for years so if that's what it takes then so be it and fuck em all. It's what winner's do.
Was that the postage stamp top corner free kick after his copyrighted starfish impression dive? Tbh, I have always despised Gerrard for stuff like that. I despise him even more after his failure at Villa, but that starfish impression made me want to bitch slap his tiny little turnip headed bonce, even when he did it against other clubs…
That's the one.
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One of the best examples I remember of shithousery getting results was against Liverpool at Villa Park a good few years ago.1-0 up and they snatch a late equaliser which was bad enough. Into injury time and Gerrard drives forward and throws himself to the ground 25 yards out. He immediately gets into the face of the referee snarling and yelling for a free kick. The referee obliged and up stepped Mr Gerrard to smash it into the net for the winner. Cue pandemonium in their end. They couldn't give flying fuck about our feelings of being totally robbed. I saw a Red scum supporting pal the next day and told him what I thought of that cheating bastard Gerrard. He shrugged his shoulders and said something I've never forgotten "that's what winner's do" It would seem Gerrard started the process of instilling that into our players and Unai is going to take it to the next level by the looks of it. We've been on the receiving end of shithousery for years so if that's what it takes then so be it and fuck em all. It's what winner's do.
Was that the postage stamp top corner free kick after his copyrighted starfish impression dive? Tbh, I have always despised Gerrard for stuff like that. I despise him even more after his failure at Villa, but that starfish impression made me want to bitch slap his tiny little turnip headed bonce, even when he did it against other clubs…
That's the one.
I can’t even begin to describe the fury I felt after that, lol… Especially as most of my mates down in Devon are Liverpool “fans”. Because why wouldn’t you support a club from the opposite end of the country that you have zero affiliation with that just so happen to be one of the most successful. The amount of grief I got from happy clapping day trippers who rarely go as far North as Exeter was immeasurable.
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We’ll definitely get 10x more yellow cards than Man City did when they continually fouled us at Villa Park and will get less sympathy from refs than Chelsea did for dropping to the floor every few minutes. The booking for Martinez against Utd was pathetic and a sign of things to come.
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I remember that Liverpool one even being mocked on MOTD. One of the pundits said something along the lines of "it seems it's now a freekick if you run into a stationary Bulgarian".
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One of the best examples I remember of shithousery getting results was against Liverpool at Villa Park a good few years ago.1-0 up and they snatch a late equaliser which was bad enough. Into injury time and Gerrard drives forward and throws himself to the ground 25 yards out. He immediately gets into the face of the referee snarling and yelling for a free kick. The referee obliged and up stepped Mr Gerrard to smash it into the net for the winner. Cue pandemonium in their end. They couldn't give flying fuck about our feelings of being totally robbed. I saw a Red scum supporting pal the next day and told him what I thought of that cheating bastard Gerrard. He shrugged his shoulders and said something I've never forgotten "that's what winner's do" It would seem Gerrard started the process of instilling that into our players and Unai is going to take it to the next level by the looks of it. We've been on the receiving end of shithousery for years so if that's what it takes then so be it and fuck em all. It's what winner's do.
Was that the postage stamp top corner free kick after his copyrighted starfish impression dive? Tbh, I have always despised Gerrard for stuff like that. I despise him even more after his failure at Villa, but that starfish impression made me want to bitch slap his tiny little turnip headed bonce, even when he did it against other clubs…
That's the one.
I can’t even begin to describe the fury I felt after that, lol… Especially as most of my mates down in Devon are Liverpool “fans”. Because why wouldn’t you support a club from the opposite end of the country that you have zero affiliation with that just so happen to be one of the most successful. The amount of grief I got from happy clapping day trippers who rarely go as far North as Exeter was immeasurable.
Well no one can accuse you of being a glory hunter! Hopefully in years to come and we've won loads of trophies you will be called a glory hunter and you can come back and say "bollox" I was going to Villa Park way before we became the biggest club in Europe/the world.
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;D I was born & raised 3 miles from the ground. Moved to Devon aged 11. Lived a similar distance when I came back to Birmingham after Uni & was a season ticket holder. Only came back down due to the missus missing her home.
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;D I was born & raised 3 miles from the ground. Moved to Devon aged 11. Lived a similar distance when I came back to Birmingham after Uni & was a season ticket holder. Only came back down due to the missus missing her home.
Why don't you come back and paint the bridge?.............
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;D
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What is a second favourite team?
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What is a second favourite team?
I have two nationalities and have a second team (AJ Auxerre) for example.