Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: usav on October 29, 2022, 05:39:02 PM
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To take us to the next level…..
Buendia
Konza
McGinn
Watkins
Jury still out:
Bailey
Digne
Dendonker
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Ings to the first list
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would be easier to write a list of who actually is...
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Ings to the first list
On return alone I agree, but I’m not sure how much if that is on him. He is our best finisher and only didn’t make the list because we can’t bin both Watkins and Ings at the same time.
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Possibly an idea to see how they perform after they've worked with a decent coach for a while.
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May as list the complete squad with the exception of Martinez, Young and Luiz.
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Ings to the first list
We need to sell one of:
Ings or Watkins
Konsa or Mings
Sanson or McGinn
Dendonker or Nakamaba
Buendia or Coutinho
Clearly that can’t happen all at once but we need to shift players to create space in the squad. Break it to fix it if you like.
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It depends what you mean by the next level. Top 10?
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Where do you fucking start with the ones who aren’t good enough?
Deserving of an immediate boot up the jacksie:
McGinn
Watkins
Konsa
Only not getting sold because there are three shitter players:
Buendia
Ings
Bailey
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Where was this thread last weekend? We're always going to be at our most pissed-off when we lose but the biggest difference between us and Newcastle is not in quality but in attitude and how well they're coached. Now that we have a proper manager incoming, we will see who fits and who doesn't.
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Martinez and Cash keep. Have a soft spot for Ollie, but I'm wondering why.
The rest (who started today anyhow)..dear dear dear...I wouldn't really miss any of them.
A special mention to Mings, Konsa, and Bailey. The former two, where is the leadership? Hoof ball, slow, dragged out of position and chewing gum. Alot to improve.
Bailey is atrocious.
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Now is not the time.
Let’s see what Dracula thinks.
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We need to be letting go of all of Ings, Watkins, McGinn next summer imo.
Give Buendia a run of starts as I think he'll look o.k under Emery.
Defence was poor second half but hasn't looked too bad at home this season at least.
Luiz-Kamara needs half a season of regular starts and then judge again in summer.
Give Archer some proper chances, comical he's played so little this season and when he comes on games are out of reach.
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Where was this thread last weekend? We're always going to be at our most pissed-off when we lose but the biggest difference between us and Newcastle is not in quality but in attitude and how well they're coached. Now that we have a proper manager incoming, we will see who fits and who doesn't.
Last week wasn’t much different to the Chelsea performance, but today was even worse than Fulham. I’ve long thought that the players have been the main problem, and I think that will remain the case under Emery. This is still mostly the same rabble that was shit under Smith and continued to be shit under Gerrard.
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McGinn. Patently.
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Where was this thread last weekend?
I was on holiday mate. I could have made this thread at any point this season, in some cases last season.
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Bailey gets disposed of ball too easily but I liked that run first half when he breezed past one of the CBs and set up Bunedia who really should've got the ball out of his feet quicker.
Could've easily been an assist to add to the two last week so at least he's having moments in games now so interested what Emery can and can't do with him.
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If Emery thinks they’re all not good enough then ok, let him do what he needs.
If Emery thinks they are all good enough, then it’s on his head.
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It would be nice to think our players just need a bit of coaching but given that many of them have been hopeless under the two previous coaches I think we won't see much improvement until they are binned . Candidates include Watkins,Mings,Konsa. Top end Championship players at best.
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Jacob Ramsey? Can't remember his last good game in a Villa shirt. I'm going to wait and see what our new Head Coach thinks before playing Scapegoat. Right now they're all crap.
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It's consistency, not quality, that is the issue. All of the starting 11 today have been unplayable (in a good way) at some point in the last couple of years. How the new manager sorts this I don't know. So frustrating.
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McGinn. Patently.
Can we toss a coin to see who gets to drive him to wherever he wants to go?
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There's some quality in the squad, but there's a real lack of strong and winning mentality. These lot look defeated as soon as they concede.
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Unai will sort the wheat from the chaff.
My guess is that players like Emi, Ezri, Jacob, Bailey, Buendia, Dougie, and Leandro will thrive under his coaching. But that in particular, Mings, McGinn, Watkins and Ings will all find themselves increasingly sidelined as he brings in more dynamic, better quality football players.
Today was always going to be tough. But perhaps a silver lining as Unai sees first hand the size of the challenge he has ahead of him.
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We do need to cash in on some of these players.
As said above consitency is the issue
Also we haven’t bought enough players with that drive and determination - that Emi M has for example
But what I don’t get is why none of these players ever get dropped
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Unai will sort the wheat from the chaff.
My guess is that players like Emi, Ezri, Jacob, Bailey, Buendia, Dougie, and Leandro will thrive under his coaching. But that in particular, Mings, McGinn, Watkins and Ings will all find themselves increasingly sidelined as he brings in more dynamic, better quality football players.
Today was always going to be tough. But perhaps a silver lining as Unai sees first hand the size of the challenge he has ahead of him.
There’s no doubt Emery will sort out the players that can’t take us any further and to where he wants to take us. He’s coached some of the best players in the world and will be shocked by the lack of technical ability displayed by some. It wouldn’t surprise me to see the likes of Sanson being given game time either. He can improve us with his coaching though and I expect he will but we definitely need more technically gifted footballers.
Keeping the ball takes pressure off the defence and creates chances and we just cannot do that enough with what we currently have.
I didn’t expect anything today but I didn’t expect
this capitulation either. Perhaps it’s better he’s seen us at our worst. He’s got a huge job on his hands.
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I’ll reserve judgement after seeing what happens under a manager who knows what he is doing.
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Depends what the next level is. If it's simply getting out the relegation mire then maybe just a new striker. Emery has to be given a chance to coach some skill and brains into them.
Mid-table, then we'll probably need some defensive replacements.
8-6 regularly. I'd be surprised if many are left by this point
6 or higher. I don't see this happening.
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There's some quality in the squad, but there's a real lack of strong and winning mentality. These lot look defeated as soon as they concede.
McGinn. Patently.
Can we toss a coin to see who gets to drive him to wherever he wants to go?
I believe it is about consistency as well as players who are good enough. As I think everyone outside of McGinn is up to it to some level. Unfortunately John isn't.
Or, if we prefer, the players who are good enough on a consistent basis?
Who has the potential to improve and the potential to peak?
And who has now got to their levels , or fallen, while also testing our patience and appreciation?
Again my answer to the last and how testing be is would be John McGinn.
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I think we need to see the Emery effect first.
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I think we need to see the Emery effect first.
Bloody can’t wait.
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Trouble is do we want to wait to confirm that several of our players aren’t good enough, or do we go for it in January.
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He'll have the world cup to work with most of them, a good manager and coaches will soon work out who can do what they want and who can't. It won't take the rest of the season to do that.
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Some of them are good enough, some of them are not, but they are all mental midgets.
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I honestly don't know. If you asked a Newcastle fan the same question this time last year they'd probably have said most of their squad. Schar, Almiron, Joelinton, Lazcelles, Longstaff, Burn, Murphy, Shelvey have been bang average to shit for as long as I can remember prior to Howe coming in, but with proper coaching and tactics they now look brilliant as part of a team.
Theres a few that frustrate the shit out of me but I believe we have appointed a genuinly top class manager and I want to see what he can do with them.
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Watkins is the one that’s been grinding my gears. I don’t think he’s got it.
I’m also starting to think we had our pants pulled down with Coutinho.
McGinn has been consistent. Consistently a 4/10 for about a year.
And Ings. He plays as dopey as he looks. He plays with the energy of an OAP. I’d be asking the lawyers to have a look at his birth certificate again.
Bailey has been fine the one time this season he’s been played on the left.
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Trouble is do we want to wait to confirm that several of our players aren’t good enough, or do we go for it in January.
We certainly shouldn't just be giving contract extensions for the sake of it anymore.
At end of the season McGinn and Watkins will have two years left on their deals. They've both served us well but bar extraordinary form from either it's time to cash in on both.
Other clubs do it and organically improve so we need to aswell. Think Mings fits into that category aswell but I'd keep him around next season unless he can't adapt to Emery's tactics.
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There are a number who disappoint me, but I think the one who disappoints me the most is Konsa. A couple of years back he looked assured, composed, and that he was really going to kick on. He’s a shadow of his former self now and his lack of quality at the back is a real issue.
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Where do you fucking start with the ones who aren’t good enough?
Deserving of an immediate boot up the jacksie:
McGinn
Watkins
Konsa
Only not getting sold because there are three shitter players:
Buendia
Ings
Bailey
Players that are “shit” can suddenly improve with the right coaching, belief and confidence. Many would have said the same about Almiron or Joelinton or Longstaff. But all of them are playing above any level most of their fans thought they were capable of. It’s not as simple he’s shit get rid. It’s more complex. And if in the end this new manager can’t get them performing them maybe they will need to move. Both Dean Smith at the end and Gerrard regressed our players physically and mentally. I’ve not completely given up on most of them yet.
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Ings and McGinn are no brainers. Can't believe Ings is so useless. File alongside Aspinall, Lillis, Cascarino etc.
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Newcastle are very much the exception though, for every Almiron who started off shit and then improved there are probably ten players who started shit and still are. And most of them seem to play for Villa! 😉
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I honestly don't know. If you asked a Newcastle fan the same question this time last year they'd probably have said most of their squad. Schar, Almiron, Joelinton, Lazcelles, Longstaff, Burn, Murphy, Shelvey have been bang average to shit for as long as I can remember prior to Howe coming in, but with proper coaching and tactics they now look brilliant as part of a team.
Theres a few that frustrate the shit out of me but I believe we have appointed a genuinly top class manager and I want to see what he can do with them.
That's definitely a fair assessment, I do think some of these players can turn it around (not all). We need our Guimaraes signing to lift everyone's level as well, he really is a top player. The bastard.
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Today was only the second time that our 3 for 1 Grealish replacements have played together and Bailey didn't even play on his preferred side for most of the game. I think this lot are comfortably better than the last 12 months have shown, but the right players within the squad playing in the right system hasn't been chosen often enough.
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With Ollie I just don't get how a striker can be almost 27 and still need teaching how to finish. What can Emery tell him that he hasn't been told a thousand times? He'll always need 3 chances to score 1.
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With Ollie I just don't get how a striker can be almost 27 and still need teaching how to finish. What can Emery tell him that he hasn't been told a thousand times? He'll always need 3 chances to score 1.
Or how to control a ball.
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With Ollie I just don't get how a striker can be almost 27 and still need teaching how to finish. What can Emery tell him that he hasn't been told a thousand times? He'll always need 3 chances to score 1.
He is one of the ones I simply can't see turning it around. You can't have his first touch and be anything close to a consistent top player in my opinion.
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Where was this thread last weekend? We're always going to be at our most pissed-off when we lose but the biggest difference between us and Newcastle is not in quality but in attitude and how well they're coached. Now that we have a proper manager incoming, we will see who fits and who doesn't.
Agree with eamonn on this. Give Emery a chance to work with squad as we were shit before Brentford game and were shit today. Let’s see what a proper coach can do before we start judging. Let’s also give the new gaffer some time to sort this mess out. Last weeks result was a great one but we are still without a coach
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There are a number who disappoint me, but I think the one who disappoints me the most is Konsa. A couple of years back he looked assured, composed, and that he was really going to kick on. He’s a shadow of his former self now and his lack of quality at the back is a real issue.
Just hasn't kicked on from his excellent debut season. Think he's one to keep around and see if Emery can get something from him rather than just sell immediately though.
Did Chambers play much under him at Arsenal? Staggering how few minutes he's played for us in last six months considering him and Mings was statistically our best duo last season.
Wonder if we'll see that combination in next three games.
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Where was this thread last weekend? We're always going to be at our most pissed-off when we lose but the biggest difference between us and Newcastle is not in quality but in attitude and how well they're coached. Now that we have a proper manager incoming, we will see who fits and who doesn't.
Stop hiding behind bad coaching. There are players there who have been average at best for almost two seasons now. They are what they are, average
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Ings and McGinn are no brainers. Can't believe Ings is so useless. File alongside Aspinall, Lillis, Cascarino etc.
Lillis was more of a jobbing midfielder who scored a goal or two. Did a good job for us under Graham Taylor in the short spell he played for us.
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Watkins
Ings
Mcginn
Cash
Konsa
For starters
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With Ollie I just don't get how a striker can be almost 27 and still need teaching how to finish. What can Emery tell him that he hasn't been told a thousand times? He'll always need 3 chances to score 1.
I think you’re being kind with that ratio. It’s more like 6 or 7 chances to score 1. He has lots of qualities but I’m bored of it now. Get a striker who scored goals FFS.
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Where was this thread last weekend? We're always going to be at our most pissed-off when we lose but the biggest difference between us and Newcastle is not in quality but in attitude and how well they're coached. Now that we have a proper manager incoming, we will see who fits and who doesn't.
Stop hiding behind bad coaching. There are players there who have been average at best for almost two seasons now. They are what they are, average
I would say our ceiling with this squad is mid-table/bottom of the top half. We're the 7th highest salary-payers in the league according to Purslow; often held as a more accurate indicator of quality than net spend (which ours is distorted by the likes of Kamara and Coutinho being purchased for free/below their market value due to high salary). As those players are paid commensurate to their abilities, I just don't buy it that "they're all shit". It's too easy and unlikely/depressing to say that the answer is to spend £300m more on the squad to get a tune out of them.
Do you really think that Fulham and Bournemouth have better players than us? No, it's because they are trained to play in a particular way and are capable of carrying-out their roles. Our squad is completely unbalanced - from having four wingers this time last year we now have one and he's been played on the wrong side most of the time. We have full-backs that will have to forget what Beale & Gerrard confused them with and re-learn their roles from Emery. And a mixture of central midfielders, all with various, unique talents but few of which we are setting-up to thrive on as they're often playing in roles that don't bring out their best qualities.
Smith didn't get much of a chance (i.e 11 games) to stamp his ideas on the post-Grealish team and Gerrard tried to do his Rangers-model of full backs scoring and assisting at will which failed miserably.
We're now finally going to get a coach who knows how to make a team hard to beat and also be comfortable in possession. Not all of the squad will be up to it but he's got more than enough talent to work with, keep us in the middle of the league and then progress from there in the forthcoming windows.
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It's true to say that Howe coaches his team well but it's worth pointing out that 7 players who played for them today were bought by him and no doubt Isak would have played too if he'd been fit. So it didn't take Howe long to figure out that a good number of the first team needed binning.
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Where was this thread last weekend? We're always going to be at our most pissed-off when we lose but the biggest difference between us and Newcastle is not in quality but in attitude and how well they're coached. Now that we have a proper manager incoming, we will see who fits and who doesn't.
Stop hiding behind bad coaching. There are players there who have been average at best for almost two seasons now. They are what they are, average
I would say our ceiling with this squad is mid-table/bottom of the top half. We're the 7th highest salary-payers in the league according to Purslow; often held as a more accurate indicator of quality than net spend (which ours is distorted by the likes of Kamara and Coutinho being purchased for free/below their market value due to high salary). As those players are paid commensurate to their abilities, I just don't buy it that "they're all shit". It's too easy and unlikely/depressing to say that the answer is to spend £300m more on the squad to get a tune out of them.
Do you really think that Fulham and Bournemouth have better players than us? No, it's because they are trained to play in a particular way and are capable of carrying-out their roles. Our squad is completely unbalanced - from having four wingers this time last year we now have one playing on the wrong side. We have full-backs that will have to forget what Beale & Gerrard confused them with and re-learn their roles from Emery. And a mixture of central midfielders, all with various, unique talents but few of which we are setting-up to thrive on as they're often playing in roles that don't bring out their best qualities.
Smith didn't get much of a chance (i.e 11 games) to stamp his ideas on the post-Grealish team and Gerrard tried to do his Rangers-model of full backs scoring and assisting at will which failed miserably.
We're now finally going to get a coach who knows how to make a team hard to beat and also be comfortable in possession. Not all of the squad will be up to it but he's got more than enough talent to work with, keep us in the middle of the league and then progress from there in the forthcoming windows.
Again totally agree. Last week shows there is quality in the squad. Seriously think some just like us to be shit so there is something to moan about. We have a caretaker manager in for what, 10 days? Going to take more than that to coax the quality we know is there. If not, we’ll ship them out and get better.
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Still leaves 10 that played, and more than half the starting 11, that were winless and bottom of the league less than a year ago. And didn't record a second win until late Jan.
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Still leaves 10 that played, and more than half the starting 11, that were winless and bottom of the league less than a year ago. And didn't record a second win until late Jan.
Perhaps because they didn't get Guimares til the 30th.
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Where was this thread last weekend? We're always going to be at our most pissed-off when we lose but the biggest difference between us and Newcastle is not in quality but in attitude and how well they're coached. Now that we have a proper manager incoming, we will see who fits and who doesn't.
Stop hiding behind bad coaching. There are players there who have been average at best for almost two seasons now. They are what they are, average
I would say our ceiling with this squad is mid-table/bottom of the top half. We're the 7th highest salary-payers in the league according to Purslow; often held as a more accurate indicator of quality than net spend (which ours is distorted by the likes of Kamara and Coutinho being purchased for free/below their market value due to high salary). As those players are paid commensurate to their abilities, I just don't buy it that "they're all shit". It's too easy and unlikely/depressing to say that the answer is to spend £300m more on the squad to get a tune out of them.
Do you really think that Fulham and Bournemouth have better players than us? No, it's because they are trained to play in a particular way and are capable of carrying-out their roles. Our squad is completely unbalanced - from having four wingers this time last year we now have one and he's been played on the wrong side most of the time. We have full-backs that will have to forget what Beale & Gerrard confused them with and re-learn their roles from Emery. And a mixture of central midfielders, all with various, unique talents but few of which we are setting-up to thrive on as they're often playing in roles that don't bring out their best qualities.
Smith didn't get much of a chance (i.e 11 games) to stamp his ideas on the post-Grealish team and Gerrard tried to do his Rangers-model of full backs scoring and assisting at will which failed miserably.
We're now finally going to get a coach who knows how to make a team hard to beat and also be comfortable in possession. Not all of the squad will be up to it but he's got more than enough talent to work with, keep us in the middle of the league and then progress from there in the forthcoming windows.
Completely agree with this Eamon. I think some of the players maybe aren’t good enough but they will need to be phased out over time rather than some major cull.
Howe has brought in a lot of players but has helped to make players that i would of considered more championship level like Almorin and Joelinton into the heartbeat of a team sitting in 4th. Im sure he will replace those players over time, if as expected they continue their rise, but he has blatantly coached and motivated these players brilliantly in a year.
We only have to look back at our own history and look what SGT did with the likes of Ian Olney and Ian Ormondroyd to see what can be achieved with with arguably limited players.
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Still leaves 10 that played, and more than half the starting 11, that were winless and bottom of the league less than a year ago. And didn't record a second win until late Jan.
Perhaps because they didn't get Guimares til the 30th.
He didn't start a game for over a month.
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It's fair to say that the more players he has brought in, the better the results have been.
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McGinn has been consistent. Consistently a 4/10 for about a year.
That's being fair. McGinn has been atrocious for the last 18 months. Its damning that he still starts most weeks, let alone Gerrard's utterly bone-headed decision to make him captain.
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It's fair to say that the more players he has brought in, the better the results have been.
Whilst for us, replace McGinn with Dedoncker and Targett with Young, and at the moment we've got the same team that got Dean Smith the sack.
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fuckin all ov them !!
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It's fair to say that the more players he has brought in, the better the results have been.
Whilst for us, replace McGinn with Dedoncker and Targett with Young, and at the moment we've got the same team that got Dean Smith the sack.
In fairness Carlos and Kamara Both new signings are unavailable at mo
But I know what you mean
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It's fair to say that the more players he has brought in, the better the results have been.
Whilst for us, replace McGinn with Dedoncker and Targett with Young, and at the moment we've got the same team that got Dean Smith the sack.
In fairness Carlos and Kamara Both new signings are unavailable at mo
But I know what you mean
Yes I'm not saying that we haven't spent any money, just that for various reasons, we've still got 90% of the same first team that was underperforming a year ago.
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yes and newcastle had 80 % of the same team as last year ....where are they in the league ,??
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Where was this thread last weekend? We're always going to be at our most pissed-off when we lose but the biggest difference between us and Newcastle is not in quality but in attitude and how well they're coached. Now that we have a proper manager incoming, we will see who fits and who doesn't.
Stop hiding behind bad coaching. There are players there who have been average at best for almost two seasons now. They are what they are, average
I would say our ceiling with this squad is mid-table/bottom of the top half. We're the 7th highest salary-payers in the league according to Purslow; often held as a more accurate indicator of quality than net spend (which ours is distorted by the likes of Kamara and Coutinho being purchased for free/below their market value due to high salary). As those players are paid commensurate to their abilities, I just don't buy it that "they're all shit". It's too easy and unlikely/depressing to say that the answer is to spend £300m more on the squad to get a tune out of them.
Do you really think that Fulham and Bournemouth have better players than us? No, it's because they are trained to play in a particular way and are capable of carrying-out their roles. Our squad is completely unbalanced - from having four wingers this time last year we now have one and he's been played on the wrong side most of the time. We have full-backs that will have to forget what Beale & Gerrard confused them with and re-learn their roles from Emery. And a mixture of central midfielders, all with various, unique talents but few of which we are setting-up to thrive on as they're often playing in roles that don't bring out their best qualities.
Smith didn't get much of a chance (i.e 11 games) to stamp his ideas on the post-Grealish team and Gerrard tried to do his Rangers-model of full backs scoring and assisting at will which failed miserably.
We're now finally going to get a coach who knows how to make a team hard to beat and also be comfortable in possession. Not all of the squad will be up to it but he's got more than enough talent to work with, keep us in the middle of the league and then progress from there in the forthcoming windows.
Sorry but I don’t buy some of this. I don’t think “they’re all shit” just pretty average. If our wage bill is 7th then some are way overpaid. I look at the current top 7 and wonder how many of our current squad would fit into any of those teams. During the last window, unless I missed something, only Luiz was wanted by a team in the top 7. No I don’t think Teams such as Fulham and Bournemouth have better players than us but there’s not much in it IMO. It’s too easy to blame poor coaching but these guys are not Under 10’s, they’re seasoned professionals many of whom have represented their countries. They’ve been average for the best part of two seasons under two different coaching teams. Yes, at last we’re getting a proper world renowned coach but it’s gonna take time and patience to produce a squad capable of challenging regularly for the top honours.
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They are not earning their money, simple as that.
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Thing is clearly there’s areas that need improvement, but you see time and time again quality coaches managers make their players better and more than the sum of their parts. Conversely poor managers make players poorer than they are. I’m really hoping that our new manager, with his obvious quality, will drag a lot of these players up.
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yes and newcastle had 80 % of the same team as last year ....where are they in the league ,??
Pope, Trippier, Botman, Burn, Guimaraes. All started today, and none of them there a year ago. That's not 80% the same team at all.
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yes and newcastle had 80 % of the same team as last year ....where are they in the league ,??
5 of the starting 11 today were bought after Eddie Howe joined. Howe replaced 5 of the first teamers and they soared up the table. Not saying he hasn't coached the other players well - he's done a very good job there, especially with the forwards - but as much as I think Emery will get some of our current players performing better, I also think he'll not fancy a good few who started for us today.
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Of course Unai will bring players in, every manager on the planet does at a new job. There's a massive difference between signing an entire new side and bringing in a few upgrades while improving a bunch of the players already there. The key thing is a good coach will improve that bunch of players, something Gerrard spectacularly failed to do, and Howe has done fantastically well.
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dan burn ....dan burn ffs he couldnt get a game for the noses ffs
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Of course Unai will bring players in, every manager on the planet does at a new job. There's a massive difference between signing an entire new side and bringing in a few upgrades while improving a bunch of the players already there. The key thing is a good coach will improve that bunch of players, something Gerrard spectacularly failed to do, and Howe has done fantastically well.
Yep that’s the sum of it.
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Of course Unai will bring players in, every manager on the planet does at a new job. There's a massive difference between signing an entire new side and bringing in a few upgrades while improving a bunch of the players already there. The key thing is a good coach will improve that bunch of players, something Gerrard spectacularly failed to do, and Howe has done fantastically well.
No-one's suggesting he buys an entire new team. I think he will replace more than some might expect though. For what it's worth, I think we consistently overrate our players. Ultimately it depends on what target he's been set, how soon they expect him to get there and how much they give him to do it. I think he'll improve the youngsters significantly but those in their late 20s maybe not so much.
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please tell me then when will one of our managers make our players better cuz we seem to always buy so called quality players and always make them shit !!
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please tell me then when will one of our managers make our players better cuz we seem to always buy so called quality players and always make them shit !!
Smith helped to make Grealish better.
I also would of thought this one of the reasons we’ve appointed Emery.
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Almiron is 29 in a few months and has gone from a laughing stock for years to one of the most in form players in the league. Joelinton is younger but the same applies. While some players just aren't good enough, others are but it doesn't show much until good managers and coaches work with them.
Go back a year or so, how many of the Newcastle side would anyone want us to sign? Saint-Maximim is about it. Even the players they have signed, Guimares and possibly Isak and Botman are the only stand outs that i'd probably have wanted us to sign.
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I'll wait and see what ours look like well coached first, thanks.
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I'll wait and see what ours look like well coached first, thanks.
How long would you give them? Or would Emery would give them?
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I'll wait and see what ours look like well coached first, thanks.
How long would you give them? Or would Emery would give them?
What?
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what !! anybody with a brain could see grealish was quality , ...we sign player aftr player after player and they never live up to there rep , danny ings ...supposed netter for everybody else ..comes to us and im 55 and move quicker than him ffs
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I'll wait and see what ours look like well coached first, thanks.
How long would you give them? Or would Emery would give them?
What?
How long will you wait to see?
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Considering we have 2 months until we can sign anyone, what's the rush?
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Yes, I guess by January he'll be able to tell.
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fuckin all ov them !!
Seriously? Every one?
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what !! anybody with a brain could see grealish was quality , ...we sign player aftr player after player and they never live up to there rep , danny ings ...supposed netter for everybody else ..comes to us and im 55 and move quicker than him ffs
I have a brain and a season ticket for as long as i can remember and until Smith started working with him i thought Grealish mostly flattered to deceive. Pretty pointless debate now though so i wish i hadn’t opened up that can of worms.
I thought Watkins was mostly good for his first season with us, i thought Konsa was mostly fantastic for his second season with us, Luiz is better now than when we signed him, JJ has been good in patches. The problem that has been highlighted by several posters is that we’ve had a largely wasted year with a manager that as time went on was clearly not up to the job and players that have mostly got worse on his watch through a complete lack of structure and tactical nous.
Time will tell whether with proper coaching with an elite manager whether all of the players perform better, or whether some doo and some others need to be moved on slowly but surely. My guess would be the latter.
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Well let's hope Emery hits the ground running and the players respond quickly. Next few league games are Man U at home, Brighton away, Liverpool at home and Spurs away. At the moment it's a bit hard to see where many points are coming from in that run. After that it's four games that could be pvotal in the relegation shake up, with matches against Wolves, Leeds, Southampton and Leicester.
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Ramsey is someone who I expect to improve again under Emery. He was playing some excellent football in Gerrard's first few months. Then lost a bit of form and should've been rested but in Gerrard's mind he instead continued to play every single minute of every game.
I'd like to think Emery will refine parts of his game in and out of possession and also know when to sub him/rest him and hopefully he'll be off again as he showed last season he had excellent close control and can get in the box and score.
Archer will surely get some proper chances and actual starts in next two months so see what he makes of that.
Sanson aswell although probably more as sub given Kamara-Luiz is the obvious duo to play infront of the back 4.
Beyond that I get people's frustrations with Bailey and Bunedia after today but we've had 12 months of them being in and out of the 11 for various reasons.
They both need a run of 10 starts together which I'd hope would be the plan. The guys at Newcastle got the chance to bed in as units and now that team looks like it's been playing together for years.
Buendia has a poor game and then gets benched for Coutinho for a month so that won't be happening under this manager.
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Archer will surely get some proper chances and actual starts in next two months so see what he makes of that.
We've only got three games in the next two months, so would think Emery will be looking more at Ings and Watkins in those games.
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Archer will surely get some proper chances and actual starts in next two months so see what he makes of that.
We've only got three games in the next two months, so would think Emery will be looking more at Ings and Watkins in those games.
I'd start Archer in the cup at Man. United. He scored in similar circumstances at Chelsea last season so don't think it would faze him.
Him and Ings dropping a little deeper could work, no more Watkins for next two weeks please other than coming on for last 20 minutes.
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where do you start, first fitness, the commentator said that Newcastle looked far fitter than our players, I read somewhere that our players run less than any other prem side. Then game management, I thought as he was only going to coach the side for a couple of games he would be adventurous and make changes as needed, but he turned out to be a copy of Gerrard.
Many have pointed out that Newcastle have many in their side that were written off but Howe has turned them around. I hope by Christmas he will know who he wants to keep.
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Let Emery assess them for the remainder of this season. They’ve not had a competent manager for awhile. Some might surprise. Some of these players have played well elsewhere and they’ve played well here.
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Archer will surely get some proper chances and actual starts in next two months so see what he makes of that.
We've only got three games in the next two months, so would think Emery will be looking more at Ings and Watkins in those games.
Yep, he is duty bound to play them but we can only hope it’s one at a time.
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Well let's hope Emery hits the ground running and the players respond quickly. Next few league games are Man U at home, Brighton away, Liverpool at home and Spurs away. At the moment it's a bit hard to see where many points are coming from in that run. After that it's four games that could be pvotal in the relegation shake up, with matches against Wolves, Leeds, Southampton and Leicester.
You just never know with a new manager. A tiny superficial change can see an improvement, or a new way of working can make things worse. I really hope, now that we have a manager of undeniable pedigree, that we the fans stick with him.
Back around February/March, Gerrard won me over, but naturally that was for a finite number of games, and eventually he undid all of that. There was the unfortunate sense that he engineered a situation where it became him vs the squad, specifically Mings, and frankly, I preferred Mings, because he's done more for Aston Villa than Gerrard ever will.
Emery feels like a watershed appointment. Any player he doesn't want or get on with - whether it be Mings, McGinn, Coutinho, Martinez, whoever - he has my support, because his record gives him that luxury.
We potentially have a 'legacy' manager; a guy who could spend a decade here and transform the club. So I will trust his judgement.
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Someone needs to tell the players some home truths the first being for nearly all of them Villa is as good as it gets, fail at this club then you are destined for the championship or lower.
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In terms of being good enough to see us climb the league into the top half over the next 12 months, of the regular starters the only one i'm outrightly sure isn't good enough and should be out of the team from next week onwards is Konsa. Chambers has looked better when he's had the chance, i have no idea why he's not playing. He was probably the most promising young centre back we've had since the 90s when he came into the team in 19-20 so i just don't know what has happened. Otherwise, i'm still waiting for Mings to find some real consistancy, if he can't then Carlos has to replace him and get his chance once fit. McGinn needs to play in the 8 role or not at all. If someone is a better bet for that role, i.e Ramsey, Luiz or a new signing then he gets replaced. Watkins is another doubt, he works hard and if we're going to press from the front he could be useful for that and it would be interesting to see what he's like again if we can keep the ball up there for longer periods but i'm thinking we most likely need to upgrade. Ings is a clever, decent player but still just seems to struggle to fit the system for the most part. Buendia is one i've almost given up completely with (like Konsa). Sure, he's tidy, but he's pretty much completely ineffective and he's like little boy lost out there most of the time. Coutinho i'm praying will come good again like in his first couple of months but i'm not hopeful. Jury is out still also on Bailey, Digne, Dendonker (very early days with him though), and Ramsey. Luiz struggles against the good teams in the defensive mid role, but could be good further up. Young is probably in his last season. Cash (usually) looks good enough and Martinez definitely is. Sanson, fuck knows what's happened there but it really isn't going to happen is it?
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We’ve spent most of this season with a first choice 4 midfielders that cost £19.5 mill between them. Only Kamara has looked good enough for a Top 10 side.
We’ve spent £50 mill on 2 strikers that are no where near giving us that return back and that’s before we even get to Bailey and Buendia.
How Lange isn’t under more scrutiny baffles me.
To the OP, all bar Martinez, Kamara, Carlos (because we don’t know yet), Cash and Luiz. The rest are totally expendable.
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Can anyone provide the statistics that show how many times we manage to win (or even draw) after conceding the first goal?
My feeling is that, since the giddy heights of the MON years, the number of times we have achieved this is very low; possibly the worst in the league
For years we have lacked mental strength and resolve
This is not down to Gerrard - although he failed to improve it during his time
How many times on the match thread, when we concede first, is one of the first comments “that’s it - game over”?
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The majority of these players have contributed to us losing 37 of our last 75 league games. They can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Soft as dog shit the lot of them. Look at the goals yesterday, how many were built up from 50/50's we lost as they barged through us. Really weak.
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The majority of these players have contributed to us losing 37 of our last 75 league games. They can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Soft as dog shit the lot of them. Look at the goals yesterday, how many were built up from 50/50's we lost as they barged through us. Really weak.
It's a fair comment. How long have we been waiting for them to gel. It's not happening.
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The majority of these players have contributed to us losing 37 of our last 75 league games. They can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Soft as dog shit the lot of them. Look at the goals yesterday, how many were built up from 50/50's we lost as they barged through us. Really weak.
But its quite clearly not going to happen, you can’t just get rid of half a team or more. The new manager will largely have to work with what he’s got apart from maybe a couple of additions in January.
Again, whilst some of the players will no doubt be moved on or fall down the pecking order by the beginning of next season, i would guess at least half if not more of this team will still be first choice.
We’re going to have to give the manager time and patience to turn things around with a good percentage of the players there now.
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Emery likes to play a passing game doesn't he? Keeping it simple, side to side if necessary to frustrate the opposition. Well if that's right we do have an issue or two. Konsa as an example shits himself in possession, though a good defender, he could struggle. McGinn right now is woeful in possession too.
I'd expect to see Chambers in, and who knows in midfield.
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Let Emery assess them for the remainder of this season. They’ve not had a competent manager for awhile. Some might surprise. Some of these players have played well elsewhere and they’ve played well here.
Agree
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Part of the art of management must be getting more out of what you inherit. All the successful managers we've had in my lifetime have achieved it. Brian Little was perhaps the best example - players such as Bosnich, Ugo, Townsend and Yorke were either struggling or in the reserves when he arrived.
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Part of the art of management must be getting more out of what you inherit. All the successful managers we've had in my lifetime have achieved it. Brian Little was perhaps the best example - players such as Bosnich, Ugo, Townsend and Yorke were either struggling or in the reserves when he arrived.
Completely agree with this and to a certain extent its what Howe has done for the last year at Newcastle, added some important players (Botman, Trippier, Guimares) but helped make some other players have more self belief and improve.
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Part of the art of management must be getting more out of what you inherit. All the successful managers we've had in my lifetime have achieved it. Brian Little was perhaps the best example - players such as Bosnich, Ugo, Townsend and Yorke were either struggling or in the reserves when he arrived.
Absolutely, the end result of that is getting a team that looks like more than the sum of its parts.
We specialise in the opposite of that.
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Emery likes to play a passing game doesn't he? Keeping it simple, side to side if necessary to frustrate the opposition. Well if that's right we do have an issue or two. Konsa as an example shits himself in possession, though a good defender, he could struggle. McGinn right now is woeful in possession too.
I'd expect to see Chambers in, and who knows in midfield.
It's not just that, it's his defending too, far too often he stands off his man and hesitates.
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It is tempting to list most of them, given successive managers have failed to get a tune out the squad. However there are some players that have shown sporadic periods of excellent form:
Watkins - good first season.
Mings - good enough to get into the England squad last season.
Konsa - Good first season.
Ramsey - good half a season last year.
Ings - Good for Southampton.
Buendia - Good for Norwich.
Coutinho - Good enough for Bayern and Barca.
Cash - don'tm rate hime but might improve.
Digne - Good for Everton.
I reckon half of then will end up being good for Emery, and half will still be dirge. Anyones guess which half.
Then we have jury's out players, that may do better with a chance in the team - Sanson, Guilbert, and promissing young players like Archer, Davis, Philogene Bidace, Ramsey, KKH etc. 2-3 of these will end up regulars in Emerys team.
Then we have the only player of any consistent quality - Martinez.
We need at least 4 good quality signings, and to shift out 7-10 players over the next 2 seasons. It is a big job.
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Emery likes to play a passing game doesn't he? Keeping it simple, side to side if necessary to frustrate the opposition. Well if that's right we do have an issue or two. Konsa as an example shits himself in possession, though a good defender, he could struggle. McGinn right now is woeful in possession too.
I'd expect to see Chambers in, and who knows in midfield.
It's not just that, it's his defending too, far too often he stands off his man and hesitates.
I do wonder with Konsa, whether the influence of no crowds and also John Terry during 2020/2021, was a combined major factor in his really high level of performances that season. It seems to me his performances for most of last season and this season so far are very similar when he first signed from Brentford as a prospect, rather than the finished article. That one season is starting to now stand out as an exception rather than rule.
Hopefully he can kick on under Emery, or he might be one moving on in the summer.
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Emery is not going to rate Konsa given his lack of quality with the ball.
Chambers, on the other hand, is excellent with it, and for me the most obvious change we'll see is going to be him in for Konsa.
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This will be the third (and most experienced) manager many of these players have had at Villa. If they don’t do it under Emery, it’s simply because they’re not good enough. There’s certainly nowhere for them to hide now.
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Emery is not going to rate Konsa given his lack of quality with the ball.
Chambers, on the other hand, is excellent with it, and for me the most obvious change we'll see is going to be him in for Konsa.
I really don't get why bednarek was getting on ahead of Chambers. He never let us down last season.
Cash is a liability, we need someone with more quality on the right and Buendia, while i like his tenacity, shouldn't be a guaranteed starter, he's only effective in certain types of games. I wouldn't mind seeing Ramsey in that 10 poisition to see what he can do. Big transfer window ahead of us, hopefully.
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It is tempting to list most of them, given successive managers have failed to get a tune out the squad. However there are some players that have shown sporadic periods of excellent form:
Watkins - good first season.
Mings - good enough to get into the England squad last season.
Konsa - Good first season.
Ramsey - good half a season last year.
Ings - Good for Southampton.
Buendia - Good for Norwich.
Coutinho - Good enough for Bayern and Barca.
Cash - don'tm rate hime but might improve.
Digne - Good for Everton.
I reckon half of then will end up being good for Emery, and half will still be dirge. Anyones guess which half.
Then we have jury's out players, that may do better with a chance in the team - Sanson, Guilbert, and promissing young players like Archer, Davis, Philogene Bidace, Ramsey, KKH etc. 2-3 of these will end up regulars in Emerys team.
Then we have the only player of any consistent quality - Martinez.
We need at least 4 good quality signings, and to shift out 7-10 players over the next 2 seasons. It is a big job.
I tend to agree and also think that we cannot get rid of them all at once. I’d let the market decide, sell players where we receive decent offers and keep the others. We already have a big squad so we need to recuperate some players whilst creating space for new signings.
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It is tempting to list most of them, given successive managers have failed to get a tune out the squad. However there are some players that have shown sporadic periods of excellent form:
Watkins - good first season.
Mings - good enough to get into the England squad last season.
Konsa - Good first season.
Ramsey - good half a season last year.
Ings - Good for Southampton.
Buendia - Good for Norwich.
Coutinho - Good enough for Bayern and Barca.
Cash - don'tm rate hime but might improve.
Digne - Good for Everton.
I reckon half of then will end up being good for Emery, and half will still be dirge. Anyones guess which half.
Then we have jury's out players, that may do better with a chance in the team - Sanson, Guilbert, and promissing young players like Archer, Davis, Philogene Bidace, Ramsey, KKH etc. 2-3 of these will end up regulars in Emerys team.
Then we have the only player of any consistent quality - Martinez.
We need at least 4 good quality signings, and to shift out 7-10 players over the next 2 seasons. It is a big job.
I tend to agree and also think that we cannot get rid of them all at once. I’d let the market decide, sell players where we receive decent offers and keep the others. We already have a big squad so we need to recuperate some players whilst creating space for new signings.
The market would buy our decent ones and leave us the poor ones.
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Emery is not going to rate Konsa given his lack of quality with the ball.
Chambers, on the other hand, is excellent with it, and for me the most obvious change we'll see is going to be him in for Konsa.
I really don't get why bednarek was getting on ahead of Chambers. He never let us down last season.
Cash is a liability, we need someone with more quality on the right and Buendia, while i like his tenacity, shouldn't be a guaranteed starter, he's only effective in certain types of games. I wouldn't mind seeing Ramsey in that 10 poisition to see what he can do. Big transfer window ahead of us, hopefully.
Beundia hasn’t been a gaurenteed starter in his whole time at the club. We’re in danger of writing him off when he hasnt had a run of more than a couple of starts at a time.
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Beundia hasn’t been a gaurenteed starter in his whole time at the club. We’re in danger of writing him off when he hasnt had a run of more than a couple of starts at a time.
Yesterday gave a strong hint why he probably hasn't been starting very often. He's very easily dispossessed and has no pace at all. His passing was really sloppy too.
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Beundia hasn’t been a gaurenteed starter in his whole time at the club. We’re in danger of writing him off when he hasnt had a run of more than a couple of starts at a time.
Yesterday gave a strong hint why he probably hasn't been starting very often. He's very easily dispossessed and has no pace at all. His passing was really sloppy too.
I think fitness is an issue for a number of players who have barely started this season or indeed for a number of months earlier this year. Buendia is one.
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I struggle to get tickets for away games, other than cup games, so can only comment on what I’ve seen at Villa Park, and Beundia has usually been one of the only bright sparks in a generally dire year.
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Beundia hasn’t been a gaurenteed starter in his whole time at the club. We’re in danger of writing him off when he hasnt had a run of more than a couple of starts at a time.
Yesterday gave a strong hint why he probably hasn't been starting very often. He's very easily dispossessed and has no pace at all. His passing was really sloppy too.
I think fitness is an issue for a number of players who have barely started this season or indeed for a number of months earlier this year. Buendia is one.
Which isn’t surprising considering how many starts he has had.
You do not get match fit by 20 minute cameos.
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It's a conundrum, because when he starts he struggles. People have rightly given McGinn stick for giving up the ball too easy but Buendia is as bad if not worse. He also seems to have little 10 minute periods when he's buzzing and effective then immediately follows that up with a spell giving up the ball at every opportunity.
I tend to think of players that produce so inconsistently as not up to it. I hope I'm wrong and that in the hands of a man that knows how to coach and setup a team, his weaknesses will be hidden and his strengths highlighted.
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It's a conundrum, because when he starts he struggles. People have rightly given McGinn stick for giving up the ball too easy but Buendia is as bad if not worse. He also seems to have little 10 minute periods when he's buzzing and effective then immediately follows that up with a spell giving up the ball at every opportunity.
I tend to think of players that produce so inconsistently as not up to it. I hope I'm wrong and that in the hands of a man that knows how to coach and setup a team, his weaknesses will be hidden and his strengths highlighted.
It's a different sort of giving it away though. McGinn's are usually 20-30 yard misplaced punts. With Buendia, he's not quick enough to get away from players and any sort of physical contact and he loses it. He also just passes it into touch annoyingly often. We haven't got the time/money to replace everybody though so Buendia is one I hope comes good under Emery.
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I hope they all do mate.
You can't underestimate the effect of having the confidence of being well organised as a group and trusting your teammates positioning can have on making a player look good.
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I hope they all do mate.
Yes so do I of course, I meant more that I think he's got the skill to. Certain others, I'll be amazed if they do.
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How many Newcastle fans would have been thinking that Joelinton & Almiron weren't good enough? Longstaff probably wouldn't make the grade and that they'd wasted their money on Willock & Burn?
We have a load of players under performing and some I don't think are really up to it. But I'm happy for Emery to take a proper look and make his own mind up. I think our main problem has been the level of coaching not the quality in the squad.
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Although one thing I would say is I think I've got to the stage where I wouldn't be particuallry dissapointed if any single one of them was let go. I've gone from loving most of our team a couple of years ago to feeling pretty ambivalent about the lot of them.
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How many Newcastle fans would have been thinking that Joelinton & Almiron weren't good enough? Longstaff probably wouldn't make the grade and that they'd wasted their money on Willock & Burn?
We have a load of players under performing and some I don't think are really up to it. But I'm happy for Emery to take a proper look and make his own mind up. I think our main problem has been the level of coaching not the quality in the squad.
But last year Gerrard was getting pelters for apparently letting Beale do all of the coaching, the same Beale who is now seen as one of the best managerial prospects in the game. Not many people were saying that Smith was a bad coach, but the same players who are crap now were mostly crap under him for 12 months as well.
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How many Newcastle fans would have been thinking that Joelinton & Almiron weren't good enough? Longstaff probably wouldn't make the grade and that they'd wasted their money on Willock & Burn?
We have a load of players under performing and some I don't think are really up to it. But I'm happy for Emery to take a proper look and make his own mind up. I think our main problem has been the level of coaching not the quality in the squad.
But last year Gerrard was getting pelters for apparently letting Beale do all of the coaching, the same Beale who is now seen as one of the best managerial prospects in the game. Not many people were saying that Smith was a bad coach, but the same players who are crap now were mostly crap under him for 12 months as well.
Beale probbaly changed too much too fast. We'll never know if he would have made a difference this season. What I do know is man for man this squad is far better than we are showing at the moment. I'm pretty convinced if we'd recruited Eddie Howe instead of Gerrard we'd be comfortably top 10 now. Probably top 8.
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The argument to see how they all get on with new management is fair enough.
But over the past 3 seasons we've done ok defensively in terms of the goals conceded stat being much better than those around us in the table.
We've been weak in terms of attacking threat, mainly when Grealish was out and obviously now he's gone. The ability to hold onto the ball and play as a cohesive unit is non existent at away games in particular.
To me that means the focus should be on deciding if any of Ings, Bailey, Buendia, Coutinho and (regrettably) Watkins have got a future here.
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I do wonder which of our players are most suited to Emery's playing style and training methods. We could see some shifts both in which players perform well, but also we may see some players currently doing OK flounder.
Chambers ought to be higher up the pecking order due to his better passing ability, and Carlos will likely partner him when available. The rest of our central defenders all look suspect regards being good on the ball, so one would assume Mings and Konsa will be sold on (should generate a good profit), Bednarek will be released at the end of the loan period and Hause will not return. The young lad from Fleetwood may well get some game time next season too.
Sanson, and Kamara should benefit from Emery's methods, but can see Nakamba, Luiz and McGinn being moved on as all are profligate wasters of possession. Can't see Ings being mobile enough, but Watkins definitely is. Traore may come back, Guilbert may get a chance.
Don't think any of our senior fullbacks will survive past next season, but hopefully KKH will feature.
I am sure there will be a few pleasant surprises regards improved form though.
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Part of the art of management must be getting more out of what you inherit. All the successful managers we've had in my lifetime have achieved it. Brian Little was perhaps the best example - players such as Bosnich, Ugo, Townsend and Yorke were either struggling or in the reserves when he arrived.
Agreed, 100%. Fair enough try to change out 2 or 3 players but changing out most of the team, as is being suggested here, is unrealistic.
Why didn't BFR rate Yorke all that highly? It's always one that puzzles me. I like Watkins but Yorke was everything he isn't, first touch, shooting technique, low centre of gravity like a boxer...
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Part of the art of management must be getting more out of what you inherit. All the successful managers we've had in my lifetime have achieved it. Brian Little was perhaps the best example - players such as Bosnich, Ugo, Townsend and Yorke were either struggling or in the reserves when he arrived.
Agreed, 100%. Fair enough try to change out 2 or 3 players but changing out most of the team, as is being suggested here, is unrealistic.
Why didn't BFR rate Yorke all that highly? It's always one that puzzles me. I like Watkins but Yorke was everything he isn't, first touch, shooting technique, low centre of gravity like a boxer...
I don't think he didn't rate him, Yorke was only 19 when Atkinson first arrived. The when Atkinson had Saunders and Dalian up front, Yorke was mainly used on the wing. It was only really after Saunders and Dalian left that he made the centre forward position his own.
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Possibly an idea to see how they perform after they've worked with a decent coach for a while.
Exactly. This thread is a load of shite. As are the opinions of anyone who doesn't rate Buendia.
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Part of the art of management must be getting more out of what you inherit. All the successful managers we've had in my lifetime have achieved it. Brian Little was perhaps the best example - players such as Bosnich, Ugo, Townsend and Yorke were either struggling or in the reserves when he arrived.
Agreed, 100%. Fair enough try to change out 2 or 3 players but changing out most of the team, as is being suggested here, is unrealistic.
Why didn't BFR rate Yorke all that highly? It's always one that puzzles me. I like Watkins but Yorke was everything he isn't, first touch, shooting technique, low centre of gravity like a boxer...
I don't think he didn't rate him, Yorke was only 19 when Atkinson first arrived. The when Atkinson had Saunders and Dalian up front, Yorke was mainly used on the wing. It was only really after Saunders and Dalian left that he made the centre forward position his own.
That's my take too, although in addition Yorke i think was injured for most of 94-95 and came back on the last day to score as we beat Liverpool 2-0. It was a sign to come of his next 3 seasons. I think he was 23 at the start of 95-96 and that's usually when players enter their peak years. It's a fair point to say Little got the best of him though, and certainly Ugo and Townsend were like different players once Little came in. And the signing of Southgate was a masterstroke, looked superb right from his debut.
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Possibly an idea to see how they perform after they've worked with a decent coach for a while.
Exactly. This thread is a load of shite. As are the opinions of anyone who doesn't rate Buendia.
I didn't see any of the game and have no intention of doing so but I wholly agree. One game at a place where we rarely get anything and a few of them have a poor game and all of a sudden they're not good enough? It's ridiculous.
Under the guidance of Emery and his staff I'm sure Emi will flourish.
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This is it. There are some players who will move on, but I reckon a good portion, under proper management, can flourish.
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I didn't see any of the game and have no intention of doing so but I wholly agree. One game at a place where we rarely get anything and a few of them have a poor game and all of a sudden they're not good enough? It's ridiculous.
Under the guidance of Emery and his staff I'm sure Emi will flourish.
"All of a sudden"?!
Larf.
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It depends what you mean by the next level. Top 10?
No, 14 would do ATM.
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As Risso said somewhere, it's a clean slate for everyone. Regardless of our thoughts, Emery knows better than any manager we've had for a long time how to assess, coach and get the best out of players. If he decides he's getting rid of Mings, then I'd raise an eyebrow and be disappointed but trust him. With Gerrard, I never felt that way at all. Smith was inexperienced at this level and when you go further back, how far do you have to go to get to a manager that you'd trust
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I do wonder which of our players are most suited to Emery's playing style and training methods. We could see some shifts both in which players perform well, but also we may see some players currently doing OK flounder.
Chambers ought to be higher up the pecking order due to his better passing ability, and Carlos will likely partner him when available. The rest of our central defenders all look suspect regards being good on the ball, so one would assume Mings and Konsa will be sold on (should generate a good profit), Bednarek will be released at the end of the loan period and Hause will not return. The young lad from Fleetwood may well get some game time next season too.
Sanson, and Kamara should benefit from Emery's methods, but can see Nakamba, Luiz and McGinn being moved on as all are profligate wasters of possession. Can't see Ings being mobile enough, but Watkins definitely is. Traore may come back, Guilbert may get a chance.
Don't think any of our senior fullbacks will survive past next season, but hopefully KKH will feature.
I am sure there will be a few pleasant surprises regards improved form though.
Luiz will not be going because Emery doesn't rate him; rather, because the club gets an offer that reaches the buy-out clause. My guess is that Luiz, Kamara, Deaddonkey and Tim will be the candidates for the double pivot.
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Deaddonkey?
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Deaddonkey?
Dropped
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Possibly an idea to see how they perform after they've worked with a decent coach for a while.
Exactly. This thread is a load of shite. As are the opinions of anyone who doesn't rate Buendia.
I didn't see any of the game and have no intention of doing so but I wholly agree. One game at a place where we rarely get anything and a few of them have a poor game and all of a sudden they're not good enough? It's ridiculous.
Under the guidance of Emery and his staff I'm sure Emi will flourish.
Which is all very well but “a few of them have a poor game” is hardly a one off!! They’ve been having “poor games” for the better part of two seasons. One good game in 60 odd is the ridiculous bit
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Hardly any of them have had 3 good games in a row since joining Villa :D
They really do need coaching
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I didn't see any of the game and have no intention of doing so but I wholly agree. One game at a place where we rarely get anything and a few of them have a poor game and all of a sudden they're not good enough? It's ridiculous.
Under the guidance of Emery and his staff I'm sure Emi will flourish.
Which is all very well but “a few of them have a poor game” is hardly a one off!! They’ve been having “poor games” for the better part of two seasons. One good game in 60 odd is the ridiculous bit
Quite. It's not "all of a sudden".
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12/18 months ago Joelinton was regularly regarded as a joke, an awful footballer, etc etc. yesterday he destroyed our midfield almost single handedly and is now talked about as a revelation in his new position.
Coaching matters.
Every players I suspect will get a clean slate, and an opportunity to show Emery what they can do. That includes players like Sanson, Guilbert, etc.
I’ll reserve further judgement until we have seen what some real coaching can do for them.
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I would suggest most of these players are good enough - technically, physically, ability-wise for a midtable Premier League squad. We have seen most of them perform at a high level on occasion. We should not be a struggling club in this division, our squad is probably between 8th and 11th in terms of quality and strength in depth.
What they're not is consistent. What is also questionable is their motivation and commitment to the cause.
Emery is a top class coach and manager, if they have a tune worth playing, he will get it out of them.
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I would suggest most of these players are good enough - technically, physically, ability-wise for a midtable Premier League squad. We have seen most of them perform at a high level on occasion. We should not be a struggling club in this division, our squad is probably between 8th and 11th in terms of quality and strength in depth.
Another reason for our position is goals scored and this is because our 2 main strikers are not good enough.
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I would suggest most of these players are good enough - technically, physically, ability-wise for a midtable Premier League squad. We have seen most of them perform at a high level on occasion. We should not be a struggling club in this division, our squad is probably between 8th and 11th in terms of quality and strength in depth.
What they're not is consistent. What is also questionable is their motivation and commitment to the cause.
Emery is a top class coach and manager, if they have a tune worth playing, he will get it out of them.
I agree with this. My interpretation on the motivation and commitment elements is that I see them very much as things that are often absent or severely lacking during adversity, not necessarily in a professional sense. It’s why these same players under different managers struggle to come from behind in a game to get anything, why they often concede goals quickly one after the other and why we struggle to hold leads in some games and collapse. I think this was what Gerrard was highlighting but he did it in totally the wrong way and without getting buy in from the players. As players they don’t want to be inconsistent and collapse in games. They want to be going to World Cups, play for their respective countries and bring success to Villa. I’m confident that Emery will provide the detail and structure to help them achieve that and any player that doesn’t or can’t will be moved on. There won’t be any place to hide now.
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What they're not is consistent. What is also questionable is their motivation and commitment to the cause. .
That comes down to coaching; players knowing and understanding their role, having belief in the coach and us having a plan b when things aren't working out how we want.
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I can't but help reading this thread title with the internal voice of a headteacher/prissy WI member.
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I would suggest most of these players are good enough - technically, physically, ability-wise for a midtable Premier League squad. We have seen most of them perform at a high level on occasion. We should not be a struggling club in this division, our squad is probably between 8th and 11th in terms of quality and strength in depth.
What they're not is consistent. What is also questionable is their motivation and commitment to the cause.
Emery is a top class coach and manager, if they have a tune worth playing, he will get it out of them.
I agree with this. My interpretation on the motivation and commitment elements is that I see them very much as things that are often absent or severely lacking during adversity, not necessarily in a professional sense. It’s why these same players under different managers struggle to come from behind in a game to get anything, why they often concede goals quickly one after the other and why we struggle to hold leads in some games and collapse. I think this was what Gerrard was highlighting but he did it in totally the wrong way and without getting buy in from the players. As players they don’t want to be inconsistent and collapse in games. They want to be going to World Cups, play for their respective countries and bring success to Villa. I’m confident that Emery will provide the detail and structure to help them achieve that and any player that doesn’t or can’t will be moved on. There won’t be any place to hide now.
I agree.
Think it's worth remembering that the squad consists of players who've been considered good enough to represent England (Mings, Watkins, Ings), Brazil (Dougie, Phil, Carlos), Argentina (the 2 Emis), and France (Kamara, Digne) reasonably recently, and are all still 30 or under. That's before you start counting less 'elite' nations.
Whilst it's not an absolute guarantee that they're brilliant, they were considered good enough to represent a country you'd expect most/all players to be playing on one of the top divisions in the 'big' European leagues. I'm not having it that they're all an uncoachable rabble who aren't capable of playing for a mid table club.
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Well, we'll soon find out one way or the other.
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I think the jury is pretty much out on the whole squad - I think we’d all assume Martinez, Carlos & Kamara will be good enough, Ramsey & Archer should definitely remain in the 18 to continue development….of the rest if Unai decides they aren’t up to it or can’t play his way then they will be jettisoned. Said the same when Gerrard took over, we have a lot of good players on paper, we don’t have exceptional ones who perform week in week out.
Can see Unai being gifted a couple of new signings in Jan but wouldn’t be surprised if next summer is another revolving door one.
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Thing is sometimes it’s not about whether the players are good enough, it’s about whether they do what they are told. Take Ollie for instance, he’s struggling to hit a barn door with a banjo at the moment but we are not playing to his strengths. Emery will have a plan for each game and I feel sure Ollie will be part of that plan because of his work rate. If he keeps getting the ball then his confidence will return to his unplayable days eg Liverpool 7-2
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I can easily see the British spine being quickly disbanded and replaced by no name Spaniards who Emery knows, trusts and follow instructions. Could be as soon as Jan if the Jekyll and Hyde performances continue. By the summer the squad might resemble the Swansea team that did well in europe a few years ago.
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Thing is sometimes it’s not about whether the players are good enough, it’s about whether they do what they are told. Take Ollie for instance, he’s struggling to hit a barn door with a banjo at the moment but we are not playing to his strengths. Emery will have a plan for each game and I feel sure Ollie will be part of that plan because of his work rate. If he keeps getting the ball then his confidence will return to his unplayable days eg Liverpool 7-2
It was Grealish and Barkley who were unplayable that day.
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One important shift will be that players particularly favoured by Gerrard - like Ings and Phil - will return to be just another squad member. This means that Archer and others might get a little more gametime and enable themselves to prove their value in the Premier League.
... well, at least until Emery brings his own favourites in!
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One important shift will be that players particularly favoured by Gerrard - like Ings and Phil - will return to be just another squad member.
Coutinho has been reduced to a squad member already and I don't have the stats but I would guess that Ings has started less than 50% of games under Gerrard.
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Thing is sometimes it’s not about whether the players are good enough, it’s about whether they do what they are told. Take Ollie for instance, he’s struggling to hit a barn door with a banjo at the moment but we are not playing to his strengths. Emery will have a plan for each game and I feel sure Ollie will be part of that plan because of his work rate. If he keeps getting the ball then his confidence will return to his unplayable days eg Liverpool 7-2
It was Grealish and Barkley who were unplayable that day.
I was about to post just that!! If we’re using Watkins as an example ( and he’s by no means the only one) it’s basic poor technique, he’s had the chances to score but mostly doesn’t
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Didn't Ollie get a hat-trick with 3 very different type of goals in that game? And Klopp's first words to Smith after, were something like "Ollie Watkins...wow!"
The guy has hardly hit the heights since but it seems disingenuous not to credit him in a game where he clearly deserved it!
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Didn't Ollie get a hat-trick with 3 very different type of goals in that game? And Klopp's first words to Smith after, were something like "Ollie Watkins...wow!"
Wow - as in we must have been really shit if Ollie scored 3.
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Didn't Ollie get a hat-trick with 3 very different type of goals in that game? And Klopp's first words to Smith after, were something like "Ollie Watkins...wow!"
The guy has hardly hit the heights since but it seems disingenuous not to credit him in a game where he clearly deserved it!
The second was a belter, no question. The first was a simple tap in after a mistake from Adrian though and good work from Grealish, and think the third was a header from a free kick. a hat trick against Liverpool was fantastic, but he wasn't "unplayable" on the day in the way Grealish and Barkley were.
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I think the much maligned John McGinn was sensational in midfield that day too.
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Ollie was really good all of that season, excellent if you consider where he'd been previously. Shame he's only showed it in odd flashes since. As i've said, i'd rest him now till the WC and give Archer a go.
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Every single player was at their peak that night, special mention to McGinn, Grealish, Watkins and Barkley who really did run the show, pulled the strings and all those cliches.
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The key name in there is Grealish....every player benefitted from playing with him, especially on that left side....Targett, Barkley, Watkins, McGinn all played closely to Grealish and were much better for it.
I maintain with the current lot....decent players, poor team.
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Every single player was at their peak that night, special mention to McGinn, Grealish, Watkins and Barkley who really did run the show, pulled the strings and all those cliches.
Grealish really was unplayable that night. He humiliated TAA throughout, same for Watkins on Gomes. I'm not sure the two Liverpool defenders have fully recovered their confidence since. They were both equally as good at Arsenal soon after.
But he's long gone now and it's long past time for the names above to get their careers back on track without Grealish. They only need to look at that 🤡 Barkley to understand how quickly a career can go into free fall.
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I wonder if we'd still be better playing behind closed doors.
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Watkins was fantastic that night, not just his 3 goals but his pressing from the front and also exploiting their stupidly high line, that for some reason they stuck with all night. If we'd scored 10 or more that night it no one could have said it was undeserved.
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It was night and day seeing Watkins up top at the start of that season rather than Wesley, Samatta or Kienon. Made a huge difference in terms of helping us get up the pitch and having pace on the break. I think it benefited Grealish in creating more space for him to operate in as the opposition defence knew that with Ollie, they couldn’t necessarily hold a high line without fear of him running in behind unlike Wesley and the others.
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I would suggest most of these players are good enough - technically, physically, ability-wise for a midtable Premier League squad. We have seen most of them perform at a high level on occasion. We should not be a struggling club in this division, our squad is probably between 8th and 11th in terms of quality and strength in depth.
What they're not is consistent. What is also questionable is their motivation and commitment to the cause.
Emery is a top class coach and manager, if they have a tune worth playing, he will get it out of them.
Just bumping this. Any changes of opinion?
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Yep. I was convinced Ollie wasn’t good enough. Poor first touch , not converting chances. Whilst admiring his work rate, I had him in the “ not good enough“ list.
I’ve never been so happy to be wrong. Just shows what proper coaching does. And why I’m not a manager.
Hopefully I’ll be saying same about Bailey.
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I can't see a future here for Danny Ings.
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Think I said on here a few months ago Ollie would never fire us into European competition so some humble pie needs to be cooked up there!
Would've been happy to move on Konsa and McGinn start of the year aswell as I thought they'd reached their peaks at this level in 20/21 but again both are huge currently.
Maybe Bailey can be the new one to morph into another Dwight Yorke in six months time, here's hoping.
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Under the tutelage of 'El Maestro' there is no player who simply isn't good enough. 8)
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I can't see a future here for Danny Ings.
Made me chuckle.
I've said to a few people if you'd asked me even in January who our better striker is I would have ummed and ahhed about it. At that time I recall saying we needed someone with work rate of Watkins and finishing of Ings. Turns out Ollie can do it all.
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Think I said on here a few months ago Ollie would never fire us into European competition so some humble pie needs to be cooked up there!
Would've been happy to move on Konsa and McGinn start of the year aswell as I thought they'd reached their peaks at this level in 20/21 but again both are huge currently.
Maybe Bailey can be the new one to morph into another Dwight Yorke in six months time, here's hoping.
That would be some morph. Unai is good but I don’t see how he can make Bailey run faster. He might give him some idea about wing play and beating his marker but that might be a stretch too far as well.
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Under the tutelage of 'El Maestro' there is no player who simply isn't good enough. 8)
Oh deary me 😂
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Think I said on here a few months ago Ollie would never fire us into European competition so some humble pie needs to be cooked up there!
Would've been happy to move on Konsa and McGinn start of the year aswell as I thought they'd reached their peaks at this level in 20/21 but again both are huge currently.
Maybe Bailey can be the new one to morph into another Dwight Yorke in six months time, here's hoping.
That would be some morph. Unai is good but I don’t see how he can make Bailey run faster. He might give him some idea about wing play and beating his marker but that might be a stretch too far as well.
I think we'll know come the summer. I expect a top level winger/wide forward to come in, pushing Bailey to the bench, and then it becomes a matter of whether Unai wants him as a squad player, or if he would prefer to have one of the youngsters using that space and his potential minutes on the pitch.
I don't think Bailey is a lost cause, but time is running out for him, certainly.
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Bailey's the one player who has shown no improvement whatsoever under Emery. If anything, he seems to be getting worse.
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Yes, he hasn't been very good.
Get rid 😂
Usually when I say such things (McGinn and Mings spring to mind), they eventually get back to a decent level.
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Think I said on here a few months ago Ollie would never fire us into European competition so some humble pie needs to be cooked up there!
Would've been happy to move on Konsa and McGinn start of the year aswell as I thought they'd reached their peaks at this level in 20/21 but again both are huge currently.
Maybe Bailey can be the new one to morph into another Dwight Yorke in six months time, here's hoping.
That would be some morph. Unai is good but I don’t see how he can make Bailey run faster. He might give him some idea about wing play and beating his marker but that might be a stretch too far as well.
Bailey can run fast, he just needs to get his hamstrings right, as Everton and Newcastle showed, they will go if he tries too hard.
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Bailey's the one player who has shown no improvement whatsoever under Emery. If anything, he seems to be getting worse.
I think he's still held back by the hamstring stuff, we need to get him properly fit and able to do his job, and if he's not fully capable then move him on.
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I agree. He's clearly not using his full pace very often, I'd put it down to being scared of using his right foot and wanting to cut inside but maybe he is scared of getting injured again.
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I still think he's going to score a Savo-esque massive goal for us in the run in, the winner at Anfield or Old Trafford.
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Will he be fit for the run in?
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Will he be fit for the run in?
As it took months after his last hamstring injury to commit to sprinting again I’d suggest he might be fit enough to play but whether he’ll be 100% is a different type of fit
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Maybe the hamstring injury or fear of another is holding him back. What's for sure is that he ain't going to be starting many games between now and the end of the season as Traore is ahead of him on performances. If he does get a run for however many minutes he really needs to show what he is still capable of. It's down to him.
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Hopefully Traore remains as a bench option….not sure he’ll ever show the levels of application the guys did on Saturday…little 20 minute cameos are plenty
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Maybe the hamstring injury or fear of another is holding him back. What's for sure is that he ain't going to be starting many games between now and the end of the season as Traore is ahead of him on performances. If he does get a run for however many minutes he really needs to show what he is still capable of. It's down to him.
I did think the same of Andre Green a few years ago. Looked great until he got a bad muscle injury, and never looked the same player. Other than the 3rd goal in the Sheffield United comeback.
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I think Unai's identified that Bailey's position is a position we need to improve on.
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Maybe the hamstring injury or fear of another is holding him back. What's for sure is that he ain't going to be starting many games between now and the end of the season as Traore is ahead of him on performances. If he does get a run for however many minutes he really needs to show what he is still capable of. It's down to him.
He’s two seasons in now. Can see patience with him waning now.
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Coutinho?
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Bailey's the one player who has shown no improvement whatsoever under Emery. If anything, he seems to be getting worse.
I think he's still held back by the hamstring stuff, we need to get him properly fit and able to do his job, and if he's not fully capable then move him on.
It's a factor but I'm not sure it's the only one holding Bailey back. I think there is a chronic lack of self belief there too..it's hard to fathom really given his profile before Villa. But three coaches have struggled to get the best out of him and he definitely isn't getting the best out of himself.