Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on July 24, 2022, 05:12:15 PM
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Season is nearly upon us seemingly 10 minutes after the last one apparently finished (at around the 72nd minute up at Man. City....)
Expectations then? To beat Man. United in 3rd round of cup.....and then lose to Blackburn in next round.
To finish top 8-14?
Half the youth team to be thrown in?
I think realistically we need to be finishing top 10. Haven't done it in top division since 2011 and need to start finishing above the likes of Wolves and Leicester which should be realistic given we could've done it last season.
Cup run would be brilliant but we'll need luck with the draws.
Playing wise I'd really like to see Archer get a serious shot upfront right from the start. Given his goalscoring form in last 12 months I really think he could do very well if he can hit a couple early in premier league rather than going out on loan.
Beating a couple of the top 6 would be nice as our record so far under Gerrard has been dreadful against that standard. Hopefully 10 points on the board by end of August and we can play well when fixture list gets tougher from September.
Cue us being 3 down to Bournemouth after 60 minutes....
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9th with the squad as it stands but if we get in another central midfielder I don’t see why we can’t challenge for 7th.
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I just want us to have a cup run as I'm sick to death of us not getting past the 3rd round. Have a go at both cups and top half finish would do me, that's more than achievable with this squad.
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I'll be surprised although delighted of course for us to pop into the top 10, we are still lacking up front and open to far too many errors at the back. The big weight of the scales for us this season is relying on the most unreliable player in our squad Leon Bailey - if only.
Oh and a good run in at least one of the cups is a must.
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I don't want a "cup run", I want to win a cup. Losing a final is no better than losing in the Third Round.
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If the manager gets the best out of the squad then pushing top 6..
I am not convinced he will though.
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As things stand I predict well finish 10th-12th
Go out of both cups when we play one of the Sky Six (by some kinda injustice)
I dont see that enough has changed since last season for any better.
Think the only things that could get us better is if SG manages to get something extra out of the squad and/or we get a couple more in.
Think were chosing a long game of sensible investiment plus a great youth acadamey
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That squad, as it stands, should finish 8 or 9th, any deviation on that is what Gerrard adds/subtracts.
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If we can add a striker capable of hitting 20 goals a season, I think we would comfortably finish top half at least. However, if it’s just the current squad, I see us having a similar season to the last one. If we are not in contention for a European spot, I would like to see our strongest teams put out for our cup matches but, we just know this isn’t going to happen.
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Gerrard gets a bit of a pass on what was a disappointing last season. However, he'll go in to this season with higher expectations as a result.
European football, or a bloody good attempt at it (e.g. if we miss out by a point, a dodgy goal on the last day, etc - fair enough, can't do much about that). Anything less and he's off in my book. For the cub of our size, with the investment we've seen, it's not acceptable to be scrambling for places with no mark clubs like Leicester or Crystal Palace.
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I like Gerrard and want him to do well, but I also recognise his faults, and hope he doesn't turn out to be a stubborn arse with the Watkins and Ings up front nonsense. We've got the squad to be top 8, but a lot of it will depend on how he manages it. If we see the flattering-to-deceive triumvirate of Mings, McGinn and Watkins starting the majority of matches, I think top 10 will be the best we can hope for.
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Top 10 and win a cup. That’s what I’m expecting, not hoping for!
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I like Gerrard and want him to do well, but I also recognise his faults, and hope he doesn't turn out to be a stubborn arse with the Watkins and Ings up front nonsense. We've got the squad to be top 8, but a lot of it will depend on how he manages it. If we see the flattering-to-deceive triumvirate of Mings, McGinn and Watkins starting the majority of matches, I think top 10 will be the best we can hope for.
You've hit it on the head - far too loyal - he talks the talk but backs off and seems afraid to drop players or what he perceives to be the bigger names like Coutinho.
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I expect more points, more wins, more goals, better football, better defending, better decisions.
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Our strongest position is attacking midfield. If he plays two up top to sacrifice a player from Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey and Traore (who I still rate) questions should be asked. Smith lost his job for messing about with his system to accomodate Tuanzebe (!!!) and Ings. Hopefully Gerrard is cute enough to not make the same mistake.
Top 8 squad. Eighth minimum. Cups are what they are.
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60 points is realistic and achievable. That should give us a decent league placing on average.
Plenty of game time for the likes of KKH, Archer, Tim, etc. That will enable us to see which areas need strengthening next summer (hopefully reduced). Could be break through years for a number of those lads and will show a pathway for future youngsters. I think Villa can steal on march on other clubs by becoming the best club to develop at with realistic opportunities to impress.
Finally, developing the culture at the club. The players need to see that if they perform they play and that reputation guarantees nothing. That being the case, Archer, Bailey and Chambers would probably all be starting against Bournemouth.
All achievable, all indicating further growth.
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60 points is realistic and achievable. That should give us a decent league placing on average.
Plenty of game time for the likes of KKH, Archer, Tim, etc. That will enable us to see which areas need strengthening next summer (hopefully reduced). Could be break through years for a number of those lads and will show a pathway for future youngsters. I think Villa can steal on march on other clubs by becoming the best club to develop at with realistic opportunities to impress.
Finally, developing the culture at the club. The players need to see that if they perform they play and that reputation guarantees nothing. That being the case, Archer, Bailey and Chambers would probably all be starting against Bournemouth.
All achievable, all indicating further growth.
I’m not sure basing team selection on alphabetic order is the right way to go.
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Top eight is possible, but I worry about our attack. I think we need a focal point, a player who can hold the ball up and bring others into play. A big fucker who can win headers and be useful at corners at both ends of the pitch (we're too small, another reason to keep Tim). If we could get such a player, who would also score 10-15 goals, I'd cash in on Ings and let the remaining attacking players compete for the other 2-3 attacking spots.
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60 points is realistic and achievable. That should give us a decent league placing on average.
Plenty of game time for the likes of KKH, Archer, Tim, etc. That will enable us to see which areas need strengthening next summer (hopefully reduced). Could be break through years for a number of those lads and will show a pathway for future youngsters. I think Villa can steal on march on other clubs by becoming the best club to develop at with realistic opportunities to impress.
Finally, developing the culture at the club. The players need to see that if they perform they play and that reputation guarantees nothing. That being the case, Archer, Bailey and Chambers would probably all be starting against Bournemouth.
All achievable, all indicating further growth.
I’m not sure basing team selection on alphabetic order is the right way to go.
That, or the Mike Bassett approach for calling up Benson & Hedges to the England squad.
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I think Gerrard knows that top half is a minimum. Anything less he needs to be looking over his shoulder. I’d be very surprised to see transfer window close without buying another striker, otherwise that’ll be only playing area he’s not added to in making it his own squad after 2 transfer windows. He did also say that the group needed help and improvement for competition in all areas………
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We've got big dreams
Don't you know we've got
New sensations
Great Expectations
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I genuinely feel that we could challenge for a Europa League place if we got in another quality attacking option.
As it stands, anywhere between 9th and 15th
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This is a proper premier league squad now. A top drawer centre forward and centre midfielder and it could be top 6.
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An FA cup run (and win hopefully)!
A return to an 11th place finish unless we start taking points from teams in the top 8-10 (especially the sl teams), and then maybe we can achieve higher.
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I think we will finish top ten and would love a cup run.
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60 points is realistic and achievable. That should give us a decent league placing on average.
Plenty of game time for the likes of KKH, Archer, Tim, etc. That will enable us to see which areas need strengthening next summer (hopefully reduced). Could be break through years for a number of those lads and will show a pathway for future youngsters. I think Villa can steal on march on other clubs by becoming the best club to develop at with realistic opportunities to impress.
Finally, developing the culture at the club. The players need to see that if they perform they play and that reputation guarantees nothing. That being the case, Archer, Bailey and Chambers would probably all be starting against Bournemouth.
All achievable, all indicating further growth.
I would be shocked if chambers or archer started v Bournemouth
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I get the feeling the club wants a top 8 finish from interviews - so maybe there is more business to be done
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I get the feeling the club wants a top 8 finish from interviews - so maybe there is more business to be done
I agree. I think we are still light in a couple of places and have unreliable or inconsistent players who need to be replaced. McGinn, Sanson, Mings, Watkins/Ings are all good players but prone to inconsistency and I reckon that drives a winner like Steven Gerrard barmy, but, we have to wait for other clubs to come in for these players because we don't tend to stockpile players in terms of bringing in before we know others will be going. The owners and Gerrard will play the long game and wait until the next window, or the one after than to sign other targets, whereas, we as fans expect it all to happen this summer. That isn't a criticism of anyone, as I am as impatient as anyone and want these extra couple of players in sharpish.
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Absolute bare minimum for me is 10th.
We desperately need to reduce the amount of defeats we had last season, we went on a run of five games and four games losing in a row, that can't be allowed to happen. 19 is unacceptable and we should be aiming for a single digit number. Hopefully the new signings will make us a bit more solid and we'll do well there.
Our 4th season back, we need proper progress, can't afford to have another bad start or season like the last one.
7th is par imo. We really should be aiming for that.
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60 points is realistic and achievable. That should give us a decent league placing on average.
Plenty of game time for the likes of KKH, Archer, Tim, etc. That will enable us to see which areas need strengthening next summer (hopefully reduced). Could be break through years for a number of those lads and will show a pathway for future youngsters. I think Villa can steal on march on other clubs by becoming the best club to develop at with realistic opportunities to impress.
Finally, developing the culture at the club. The players need to see that if they perform they play and that reputation guarantees nothing. That being the case, Archer, Bailey and Chambers would probably all be starting against Bournemouth.
All achievable, all indicating further growth.
I would be shocked if chambers or archer started v Bournemouth
If players believe that good performances and behaviour will be rewarded then there will be genuine competition for places. Just having two players per position won't do this. It won't drive players on in training to improve and therefore could well reduce the overall competitive level which is then transferred to first team performances. Gerrard has talked alot about a 'no excuses' culture and highlighted certain players performances on the tour. We have to see this translated to first team once the season gets under way. Chambers, Bailey and Archer have been very good pre-season, possibly our best performers. If Mings, Watkins, Ings and others start to feel their places are under genuine threat, it will raise their own levels to improve. If Gerrard doesn't deliver on rewarding performances, he won't get to the culture he wants.
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I like Gerrard and want him to do well, but I also recognise his faults, and hope he doesn't turn out to be a stubborn arse with the Watkins and Ings up front nonsense. We've got the squad to be top 8, but a lot of it will depend on how he manages it. If we see the flattering-to-deceive triumvirate of Mings, McGinn and Watkins starting the majority of matches, I think top 10 will be the best we can hope for.
You've hit it on the head - far too loyal - he talks the talk but backs off and seems afraid to drop players or what he perceives to be the bigger names like Coutinho.
Coutinho was left out for both Burnley games at back end of last season so I don't think it's fair to say he's undroppable.
That said I'm not really convinced Gerrard has much clue how to intergrate Coutinho and Buendia in same 11 and get them combining effectively, he seemed to give up on it after the dismal Watford loss and pretty much every game for last three months had only one of them starting.
Feels like a season where our defence will be pretty solid with the two new signings and full season of Digne but we'll constantly trip over ourselves in final third trying to shoehorn Ings and Watkins into same 11.
From the comfort of my armchair I'd love us to go back to 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 and have Bailey on the right, one of Coutinho/Buendia drifting in from other side and give Archer a run of starts in August, think it's a gamble worth taking.
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Our strongest position is attacking midfield. If he plays two up top to sacrifice a player from Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey and Traore (who I still rate) questions should be asked. Smith lost his job for messing about with his system to accomodate Tuanzebe (!!!) and Ings. Hopefully Gerrard is cute enough to not make the same mistake.
Top 8 squad. Eighth minimum. Cups are what they are.
I agree with the first part. Ollie did everything half hearted last season, pressing, workrate, finishing. Not sure if he's lost belief since Grealish left or other stuff is going on off the pitch but he was a shadow of his excellent first season even if his goal tally was o.k in the end.
Ings bar a few well taken goals was a massive disappointment to me and he isn't getting any younger which was always a problem with that sort of signing.
To not sign another CM just to play the two of them together would be very frustrating. As I said in last post I'd be tempted to give Archer a run of starts in August as I really think he could explode at prem level if he scores in first few games.
8th as minimum is a bit unrealistic I think though. Leicester last season finished 8th despite having a drop in standards. This was despite Vardy being out for three months, endless injuries in defence and also reaching europa SF.
We still have to prove those things, we should be finishing above Wolves and Brighton though. Newcastle is a bit more up in the air but they haven't strengthened as much as I thought so far.
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With the squad as it currently is then 10th in the league
Hoping that we win the FA Cup
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This squad pre window closure...
12th - 16th | No silverware.
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As is....11th > 13th
With a new forward (or if Cam proves that his potential is real) and, maybe, another midfield option....8th > 10th
No cup wins
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6th
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With our squad and funding anything below 8th is a failure. We need to stop thinking 10th is progress and good enough. It's not. We underperformed last season - 14th isn't an acceptable starting point to base our aspirations for this season on.
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Top 8-10 with 2 very decent Cup runs for me.
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As is....11th > 13th
With a new forward (or if Cam proves that his potential is real) and, maybe, another midfield option....8th > 10th
No cup wins
You honestly think our squad is 11-13th material? A squad with the likes of Coutinho, Kamara, Digne, Carlos, Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey, McGinn should righly be finishing below the likes of Brighton, Southampton, Wolves, Newcastle and Palace?
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It Gerrard persists with the same ideas and players from last season I don’t see much improvement and he could be under pressure by the time the WC starts.
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With our squad and funding anything below 8th is a failure. We need to stop thinking 10th is progress and good enough. It's not. We underperformed last season - 14th isn't an acceptable starting point to base our aspirations for this season on.
That’s how I see it. This is the first pre-season since promotion where there have been no undue disruptions. No replacing loan players or Covid and no players leaving to throw a spanner in the works.
Gerrard has been backed we’ve got competition for places so I’m hoping that coupled with some increased use of the whole squad we have a much more consistent season.
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As is....11th > 13th
With a new forward (or if Cam proves that his potential is real) and, maybe, another midfield option....8th > 10th
No cup wins
You honestly think our squad is 11-13th material? A squad with the likes of Coutinho, Kamara, Digne, Carlos, Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey, McGinn should righly be finishing below the likes of Brighton, Southampton, Wolves, Newcastle and Palace?
I agree but if he sticks with Ings and Watkins up front, Mings at centre half and Mcginn in no mans land.
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It Gerrard persists with the same ideas and players from last season I don’t see much improvement and he could be under pressure by the time the WC starts.
You don't see Kamara, Carlos and a revitalised Bailey as much improvement? Market value of that lot would be about £90m.
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It Gerrard persists with the same ideas and players from last season I don’t see much improvement and he could be under pressure by the time the WC starts.
You don't see Kamara, Carlos and a revitalised Bailey as much improvement? Market value of that lot would be about £90m.
See above, I think he has the players to push on but I am worried that he is not going to be radical enough.
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It Gerrard persists with the same ideas and players from last season I don’t see much improvement and he could be under pressure by the time the WC starts.
You don't see Kamara, Carlos and a revitalised Bailey as much improvement? Market value of that lot would be about £90m.
If Bailey pushes on and can get into double figures for goals then that would make a huge difference.
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A fit and firing Bailey could be massive for the season. Let's hope it happens.
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As is....11th > 13th
With a new forward (or if Cam proves that his potential is real) and, maybe, another midfield option....8th > 10th
No cup wins
You honestly think our squad is 11-13th material? A squad with the likes of Coutinho, Kamara, Digne, Carlos, Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey, McGinn should righly be finishing below the likes of Brighton, Southampton, Wolves, Newcastle and Palace?
It should......but I have my doubts that it will.
How much can Bailey be relied on ?
Same goes for Phil, to a lesser extent ?
McGinn is not the force that he was since opposition started backing off him and not 'engaging with the arse' to let him roll off them.
I've no real confidence in Ings or Watkins and I think Gerrard will try to shoehorn both into the starting lineup.
Other teams have also improved
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As is....11th > 13th
With a new forward (or if Cam proves that his potential is real) and, maybe, another midfield option....8th > 10th
No cup wins
You honestly think our squad is 11-13th material? A squad with the likes of Coutinho, Kamara, Digne, Carlos, Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey, McGinn should righly be finishing below the likes of Brighton, Southampton, Wolves, Newcastle and Palace?
It should......but I have my doubts that it will.
How much can Bailey be relied on ?
Same goes for Phil, to a lesser extent ?
McGinn is not the force that he was since opposition started backing off him and not 'engaging with the arse' to let him roll off them.
I've no real confidence in Ings or Watkins and I think Gerrard will try to shoehorn both into the starting lineup.
Other teams have also improved
This is where I am at, sadly pessimistic.
I just hope that I am wrong and Gerrard shows us that he is the young up coming managerial titan now he has his team and a full pre season to shape the way we play.
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I understand all the concerns about our strikeforce. But is this really going to ruin our season?
There were 1,071 goals in the Premier League last season. But only 14 players scored more than ten goals.
We know Watkins is capable of scoring 14 a season in the top-flight as he did it in 2020-21. Last season only 8 players scored more than 14 Premier League goals and only Spurs had two players who did.
To upgrade Watkins we are looking at a Kane, Son, Salah, Mane, Ronaldo, Jota, or Vardy player. We're not getting any of them. And anyone who might turn out to be of their level is going to be both costly and / or an unproven gamble.
The figures show that goals are increasingly being spread out through the team, rather than a traditional focal point striker. So it makes sense that we have spent on the midfield rather than a striker gamble as that is where we are most likely to gain. If we can get the likes of Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey and Ramsey playing well and consistently, we are capable of scoring the goals we need.
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Depends on what you mean by "ruin".
I'm not predicting that Villa will be battling relegation, just that there's enough areas of doubt to make me think that mid-table (or just below) is more likely than top eight
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60 points is realistic and achievable. That should give us a decent league placing on average.
Plenty of game time for the likes of KKH, Archer, Tim, etc. That will enable us to see which areas need strengthening next summer (hopefully reduced). Could be break through years for a number of those lads and will show a pathway for future youngsters. I think Villa can steal on march on other clubs by becoming the best club to develop at with realistic opportunities to impress.
Finally, developing the culture at the club. The players need to see that if they perform they play and that reputation guarantees nothing. That being the case, Archer, Bailey and Chambers would probably all be starting against Bournemouth.
All achievable, all indicating further growth.
I’m not sure basing team selection on alphabetic order is the right way to go.
It's as easy as squad number (Martinez, Cash, Digne....) though.....
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With our squad and funding anything below 8th is a failure. We need to stop thinking 10th is progress and good enough. It's not. We underperformed last season - 14th isn't an acceptable starting point to base our aspirations for this season on.
That’s how I see it. This is the first pre-season since promotion where there have been no undue disruptions. No replacing loan players or Covid and no players leaving to throw a spanner in the works.
Gerrard has been backed we’ve got competition for places so I’m hoping that coupled with some increased use of the whole squad we have a much more consistent season.
The way our squad is now, there is proper competition for places. Nobody should be undroppable. If he does what he says, then those that show it in training and matches get a shirt; which is how it should be.
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The Guardian Villa season Preview
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/25/premier-league-2022-23-preview-no-2-aston-villa
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The Guardian Villa season Preview
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/25/premier-league-2022-23-preview-no-2-aston-villa
Respendant already with guttersnipe comments from noses and their genetically deprived cousins from Leeds.
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The Guardian Villa season Preview
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/25/premier-league-2022-23-preview-no-2-aston-villa
I read this, it's disappointing. Surely in the close season when there is no football and everyone is eager and full of optimism they'd benefit from actually spending time to do some in-depth analysis and writing something insightful? Instead it's nothing more than a quick google will throw up and any football fan could put together.
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The Guardian Villa season Preview
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/25/premier-league-2022-23-preview-no-2-aston-villa
I read this, it's disappointing. Surely in the close season when there is no football and everyone is eager and full of optimism they'd benefit from actually spending time to do some in-depth analysis and writing something insightful? Instead it's nothing more than a quick google will throw up and any football fan could put together.
I think it's aimed at fans of other clubs so they get a bit of info.
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Top half of table and we beat a top 6 in the League Cup final.
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That squad, as it stands, should finish 8 or 9th, any deviation on that is what Gerrard adds/subtracts.
I think this is probably about right
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In the league I’d say 10th is minimum requirement, after that depends on the last bits of activity in the transfer window and how quickly we hit the ground running, has Gerrard Learnt from last season and how he uses the stronger squad he now has.
In the Cups, minimum qtr finals in both competitions so let’s hope we get some favourable draws we’re due them.
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The Guardian Villa season Preview
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/25/premier-league-2022-23-preview-no-2-aston-villa
In line with the usual well thought out views from the Guardian on Villa.
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As is....11th > 13th
With a new forward (or if Cam proves that his potential is real) and, maybe, another midfield option....8th > 10th
No cup wins
You honestly think our squad is 11-13th material? A squad with the likes of Coutinho, Kamara, Digne, Carlos, Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey, McGinn should righly be finishing below the likes of Brighton, Southampton, Wolves, Newcastle and Palace?
It should......but I have my doubts that it will.
How much can Bailey be relied on ?
Same goes for Phil, to a lesser extent ?
McGinn is not the force that he was since opposition started backing off him and not 'engaging with the arse' to let him roll off them.
I've no real confidence in Ings or Watkins and I think Gerrard will try to shoehorn both into the starting lineup.
Other teams have also improved
This is where I am at, sadly pessimistic.
I just hope that I am wrong and Gerrard shows us that he is the young up coming managerial titan now he has his team and a full pre season to shape the way we play.
Me too.
Taking the claret tinted glasses off. There are 7 teams who IMO are better / who have strengthened better than we have - Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, United. Argumentative but I think Newcastle and West Ham will be very competitive this year too - certainly on a par with us. Then there is usually one surprise team to add into the mix. Given all that, will do well to finish 9th or 10th.
Anything more, ownership should invest in Gerrard again - will need 3-4 more big signings to think we can seriously compete with top 6.
Anything less and Gerrard should be removed. He’s had time to convey what he wants and we need to see progression. 14th certainly would be a big failure.
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Anything lower than 8th will be a massive disappointment. And finishing 7th/8th means we absolutely should be going all out for a cup, or both.
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OK, for the pessimists (and yes I accept we we may underperform again) whose squad would you swap with out of Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton, Leicetser, Wolves, Palace, Brentoford, Everton and Leeds?
There may be 2-3 players max you may want from some of these teams, but who would you swap the whole squad with? The answer will be non, unless you're nuts.
So surely if more than one of them finishes above us we must be underperforming?
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We have a fit and raring Phillipe Fucking Coutinho to call upon (apologies if I've misspelled his middle name there). Anything less than top four and a cup will be a letdown.
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OK, for the pessimists (and yes I accept we we may underperform again) whose squad would you swap with out of Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton, Leicetser, Wolves, Palace, Brentoford, Everton and Leeds?
There may be 2-3 players max you may want from some of these teams, but who would you swap the whole squad with? The answer will be non, unless you're nuts.
So surely if more than one of them finishes above us we must be underperforming?
Yeah - but most of them finished above us last season
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OK, for the pessimists (and yes I accept we we may underperform again) whose squad would you swap with out of Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton, Leicetser, Wolves, Palace, Brentoford, Everton and Leeds?
There may be 2-3 players max you may want from some of these teams, but who would you swap the whole squad with? The answer will be non, unless you're nuts.
So surely if more than one of them finishes above us we must be underperforming?
Yeah - but most of them finished above us last season
A season where we shot well below par. But I'm assuming you would take some of these squads above ours, so your answer to the questiion is?...
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Minimum - 10th
Aim - 7th
Reality -12th
Could all change in the coming weeks depending on signings but we obviously need to move some players on as our Head Coach pointed out our squad is too big, the worry for me is we will struggle to move them on as they aren't very good and on large salaries
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OK, for the pessimists (and yes I accept we we may underperform again) whose squad would you swap with out of Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton, Leicetser, Wolves, Palace, Brentoford, Everton and Leeds?
There may be 2-3 players max you may want from some of these teams, but who would you swap the whole squad with? The answer will be non, unless you're nuts.
So surely if more than one of them finishes above us we must be underperforming?
I have no idea who's in those squads bar a handful of players from each. It's a lifestyle business. On that basis, I'm out.
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Yeah, surely nobody has time to pay attention to which players silly teams like Southampton have been signing? I barely know any of our new players. Quietly confident that this will be Jordan Bowery's breakthrough season.
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OK, for the pessimists (and yes I accept we we may underperform again) whose squad would you swap with out of Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton, Leicetser, Wolves, Palace, Brentoford, Everton and Leeds?
There may be 2-3 players max you may want from some of these teams, but who would you swap the whole squad with? The answer will be non, unless you're nuts.
So surely if more than one of them finishes above us we must be underperforming?
Yeah - but most of them finished above us last season
A season where we shot well below par. But I'm assuming you would take some of these squads above ours, so your answer to the questiion is?...
Leicester underachieved last season. Yet they still finished 8th despite getting to a europa SF (not in it this season) and countless injuries to their CBs and Vardy. So think they have a better squad than us on that evidence.
We certainly should be finishing above likes of Wolves, Palace and Brighton. They will all be weaker than 12 months ago.
Not sure on Newcastle. Ended last season in very good form but they haven't strengthened as much as I thought they would....yet.
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OK, for the pessimists (and yes I accept we we may underperform again) whose squad would you swap with out of Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton, Leicetser, Wolves, Palace, Brentoford, Everton and Leeds?
There may be 2-3 players max you may want from some of these teams, but who would you swap the whole squad with? The answer will be non, unless you're nuts.
So surely if more than one of them finishes above us we must be underperforming?
Yeah - but most of them finished above us last season
A season where we shot well below par. But I'm assuming you would take some of these squads above ours, so your answer to the questiion is?...
I would say leicester have 4 or 5 players I would love - Vardy, maddison, tieleman, barnes and n'kante.
On the flipside - does a new center back and DM solve the inconsitances that made us finish 14th? (Im not saying it doesnt), I just think we have a lot to prove
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A strong balance sheet position and carbon-neutral status.
Only joking - best of the rest (7th or 8th) and a fucking cup.
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Anywhere between 8th and 10th but if we can bring in that other elusive midfielder, I would say that 7th might be possible.
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Not counting Chucky, we have seven central midfielders by my count. Really can't see us bringing any more in this summer unless at least one leaves.
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We've strengthened Centre Back and Defensive Midfield since the end of last season. We've added some cover at Left Back and that's it.
We need some more ins and outs.
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So surely if more than one of them finishes above us we must be underperforming?
It is of course possible for one or two of them to overperform which does not necessarily mean we underperformed.
I think we need two strong additions to stand a really good chance of finishing 7th or 8th.
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We've strengthened Centre Back and Defensive Midfield since the end of last season. We've added some cover at Left Back and that's it.
We need some more ins and outs.
True. But we also have a fit and motivated Bailey. That’s 3 significant upgrades to the starting squad for the majority of last season, including the elusive DM which most of us identified as the key problem.
We need to expect more from this team, not accept stuttering to 10th as progress.
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We've strengthened Centre Back and Defensive Midfield since the end of last season. We've added some cover at Left Back and that's it.
We need some more ins and outs.
True. But we also have a fit and motivated Bailey. That’s 3 significant upgrades to the starting squad for the majority of last season, including the elusive DM which most of us identified as the key problem.
We need to expect more from this team, not accept stuttering to 10th as progress.
Yeah - the squad is good - and the ambition is there. But I think as it stands we are still slightly unbalanced squad, a manager who is still learning with a new assistant, and key players that seem to have had long periods of poor form.
If we can fix any of those issues I would be more confident of having a serious challenge for Europe etc
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I don't think it's that unbalanced. Every club would like to upgrade their strikers, but Watkins, Ings & Cam is a competitive line up. Not many of the teams competing for 7th / 8th have significantly better 8's than Ramsey, McGinn, Luiz & Sanson.
We can always get better, but this is a good squad. We're not talking about finishing above Arsenal or Chelsea here, we're talking about finishing above Wolves, Brighton, Leicester and a Newcastle squad that have added a handful of players to a team that was a laughing stock 6 months ago.
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We've strengthened Centre Back and Defensive Midfield since the end of last season. We've added some cover at Left Back and that's it.
We need some more ins and outs.
True. But we also have a fit and motivated Bailey. That’s 3 significant upgrades to the starting squad for the majority of last season, including the elusive DM which most of us identified as the key problem.
We need to expect more from this team, not accept stuttering to 10th as progress.
I expect far more too. I still think we need a bit more in midfield, because we only have Kamara and if he gets injured we're back to square one.
Move on a few fringe players. AEG, Traore, Sanson (I'd keep him but don't see the point when he doesn't play).
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Nothing less than the double will do. It’s time to start reeling back in the Johnny-come-latelys from south Lancashire and London and showing them who’s boss.
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Nothing less than the double will do. It’s time to start reeling back in the Johnny-come-latelys from south Lancashire and London and showing them who’s boss.
I know you're being light hearted and sarcastic, but when our net spend is 5th in the PL over the last 5 years (and also 5th in the last 10 years) and having spent the best part of £30m each on Buendia, Bailey, Digne, Ings, Carlos & Watkins (and having secured Coutinho and Kamara for a song) then I don't think demanding a 7-8th placed finish is that unreasonable.
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Nothing less than the double will do. It’s time to start reeling back in the Johnny-come-latelys from south Lancashire and London and showing them who’s boss.
I know you're being light hearted and sarcastic, but when our net spend is 5th in the PL over the last 5 years (and also 5th in the last 10 years) and having spent the best part of £30m each on Buendia, Bailey, Digne, Ings, Carlos & Watkins (and having secured Coutinho and Kamara for a song) then I don't think demanding a 7-8th placed finish is that unreasonable.
I don’t think this is unreasonable expectation. I just don’t expect that to happen
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10th at best.
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Our challenge is that we have had to consolidate (mid-table) first as part of a journey back to being really competitive in the PL. that has meant signing a lot of mid-table quality players over the last 2-3 years (so Mings, Cash, Konsa, Luiz, McGinn, Ings, Watkins, Nakamba, Buendia, Traore etc). Good players but never going to get us into the top 6/7.
Kamara and Carlos are the types of signings we need to push into that top 6 - add Martinez, Coutinho, Digne - and we are beginning to create a first XI capable of pushing upwards - for me we remain at least two short of a top 7 spot. A top quality striker, and another serious DM.
Overperform - 8th
Perform - 9/10th
Underperform - anything below 10th
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As mentioned elsewhere - we are not planning to catch the wanker 5
Man City - hard to see if anyone can catch them if Haarland starts scoring
'The Mighty Reds YNWA' - Will be there or there about's (Thanks Fistface) although i think they will miss Sane more than they imagine
Spurs - Have spent very well with a tough bastard as Manager so will be in the mix within top 4
Arsenal - as Spurs without the tough Manager
Chelsea - as a long shot but they seem a little in disarray so someone could catch them
Man U - Not great and certainly could be caught
Firmly in our sights should be
Leicester, Wet Spam
So anywhere between 4th - 6th is potentially possible, 6th - 8th more than realsitic
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Nothing less than the double will do. It’s time to start reeling back in the Johnny-come-latelys from south Lancashire and London and showing them who’s boss.
I know you're being light hearted and sarcastic, but when our net spend is 5th in the PL over the last 5 years (and also 5th in the last 10 years) and having spent the best part of £30m each on Buendia, Bailey, Digne, Ings, Carlos & Watkins (and having secured Coutinho and Kamara for a song) then I don't think demanding a 7-8th placed finish is that unreasonable.
I don’t think this is unreasonable expectation. I just don’t expect that to happen
As a Villa fan I can agree with you there. I'm normally more of a realist when it comes to expectations, but now we have this squad I think we have to demand and expect more. I still think West Ham and above are ahead of us squad wise, but everyone else is fair game and non of them are spending anything like we are (other than Newcastle who started from a lower base squad wise at the time of their takeover)
I don't want to hear 10th is progress or good enough. Because it bloody well isn't.
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Our challenge is that we have had to consolidate (mid-table) first as part of a journey back to being really competitive in the PL. that has meant signing a lot of mid-table quality players over the last 2-3 years (so Mings, Cash, Konsa, Luiz, McGinn, Ings, Watkins, Nakamba, Buendia, Traore etc). Good players but never going to get us into the top 6/7.
Kamara and Carlos are the types of signings we need to push into that top 6 - add Martinez, Coutinho, Digne - and we are beginning to create a first XI capable of pushing upwards - for me we remain at least two short of a top 7 spot. A top quality striker, and another serious DM.
Overperform - 8th
Perform - 9/10th
Underperform - anything below 10th
This sounds about right to me.
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I dont think most people outside of Villa are expecting us to pull up many trees.
https://www.football365.com/news/predicting-positions-other-14-premier-league-clubs
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I dont think most people outside of Villa are expecting us to pull up many trees.
https://www.football365.com/news/predicting-positions-other-14-premier-league-clubs
My 1 year old son could write a better article than that.
"while the signings of Diego Costa – no, not that one" Do you know whay it's "not that one." Because that's not his fucking name, you gormless twat.
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I dont think most people outside of Villa are expecting us to pull up many trees.
https://www.football365.com/news/predicting-positions-other-14-premier-league-clubs
My 1 year old son could write a better article than that.
"while the signings of Diego Costa – no, not that one" Do you know whay it's "not that one." Because that's not his fucking name, you gormless twat.
Think thats the standard of most news outlets
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Don't expect to use the train for the first home game.
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*edit
Out of context now so ignore.
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Dropping my expectations to 12-14th. Think were going to try and shoe-horn in faviorites and struggle to find the right formation and team for a lot of the season.
Hopefully im being overly pessimistic
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As above
With the captain announcement Mcginn will be undropable and so will other favourites just like last season.
Buendia left out in the cold,no new strikers
14th-17th
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Oh dear... I may have gone too far :D
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It's fine to have the same opinion as me, don't worry.
Lot's of people are absolutely baffled at the decision that's been made by our Head Coach
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FFS….
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When did the transfer window close on the 28th July and when did captains become undroppable?
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When did the transfer window close on the 28th July and when did captains become undroppable?
It’s a fair point re the window still being open - but I think we’re kidding ourselves if we think that we’re going to be dropping McGinn - and thus making it unlikely we’ll bring in another midfielder
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When did the transfer window close on the 28th July and when did captains become undroppable?
It’s a fair point re the window still being open - but I think we’re kidding ourselves if we think that we’re going to be dropping McGinn - and thus making it unlikely we’ll bring in another midfielder
The change to the number of subs and the mid season World Cup will mean squads will be even more stretched than before. I think a few will go out but I think we will see a couple come in along with a couple of kids stepping up.
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When did the transfer window close on the 28th July and when did captains become undroppable?
It’s a fair point re the window still being open - but I think we’re kidding ourselves if we think that we’re going to be dropping McGinn - and thus making it unlikely we’ll bring in another midfielder
Yep I can't see another midfielder coming in. If Sanson is going to be given a chance then we've got Kamara, Luiz, McGinn, Sanson, Iroegbunam, Ramsey and Nakamba. Going to have to shift at least one of those I'd have thought.
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Dropping my expectations to 12-14th. Think were going to try and shoe-horn in faviorites and struggle to find the right formation and team for a lot of the season.
Hopefully im being overly pessimistic
As above
With the captain announcement Mcginn will be undropable and so will other favourites just like last season.
Buendia left out in the cold,no new strikers
14th-17th
Fucking hell lads, just as well you're not fans of a club without international players littered throughout the squad. If you supported Birghton you'd be predicting consecutive relegations.
Get a grip FFS.
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That squad, as it stands, should finish 8 or 9th, any deviation on that is what Gerrard adds/subtracts.
I think so too, top 8 should be the target.
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Dropping my expectations to 12-14th. Think were going to try and shoe-horn in faviorites and struggle to find the right formation and team for a lot of the season.
Hopefully im being overly pessimistic
As above
With the captain announcement Mcginn will be undropable and so will other favourites just like last season.
Buendia left out in the cold,no new strikers
14th-17th
Fucking hell lads, just as well you're not fans of a club without international players littered throughout the squad. If you supported Birghton you'd be predicting consecutive relegations.
Get a grip FFS.
As I said, like we were last season when we finished 14. Every club in the league is littered with international players
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We won't finish as low as 17th and i would expect some improvement on last seasons 14th but if we don't bring anyone else in i still think it could end up being a bit 'meh'. I hope we strengthen further or that i'm proved wrong if we don't.
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When did the transfer window close on the 28th July and when did captains become undroppable?
McGinn was undroppable anyway
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Don't expect to use the train for the first home game.
Yes, I bought my train tickets last week from Manchester to Witton as only me travelling as my 2 sons are on holiday and the fuel costs are now astronomical ! Had to book National Express last night, first coach back doesn't get back in Manchester till 7.55 pm and then got to go via tram to Bury to get my car before I get home. Grrh !!
P.S I support any worker's right to withdraw their labour - but just not on a Villa home game day when I'm going.
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Our minimum start point should be challenging for Europe and a serious attempt to win either cup. This year is the first year we have the squad in place to do that following what's gone on in the last five years.
To improve on that will need a few hundred million more spent on the squad.
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It's key that we get the season off to a good start, that sets up the rest of the season. No more half-arsed performances like Watford, Newcastle, Brentford away last season. We need to be on the front foot from the off. I'm confident Gerrard will have them ready.
This season, with the gap for the world cup could throw some surprises. If everything falls into place, we get a bit of luck & avoid injuries, 7th is a possibility. Likewise with the cup draws, if they're favourable.
Man City, Chelsea & Liverpool are out of reach.
Spurs, Arsenal & Man Utd are where we need to be. I think Utd are catchable.
Currently we're in the next group, West Ham, Wolves, Leicester, Brighton & Newcastle. The target has to be the top of this group.
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Assuming last years top 6 are still going to be out of reach, and the target is European football, we are probably going to have to finish top of the 'mid table league' that includes West Ham, Newcastle, Leicester, Brighton, Wolves, Palace. On paper that doesn't look impossible but it will be a tough ask particularly with West Ham and Newcastle strengthening. Gerrard has to get all the big calls right, particularly around the balance in the forward line up. Watkins + Ings up front with Buendia and Bailey on the bench just isn't going to cut it. If he can get them involved I can see us finishing 7th or 8th and doing much better in the cups.
The absolute must for me this season is improving our home form. 5 draws and 8 defeats last season was horrific. I'm hoping we can get to 9 or 10 wins this time around.
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Our best bet for European football would be going all out for the League Cup.
With the squad we have it's good enough to get 17th-9th I think we are too easy to play against and very predictable. I don't think the signings we have made make us any more a threat going forward . Goals win games and unfortunately we won't score many
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Our best bet for European football would be going all out for the League Cup.
With the squad we have it's good enough to get 17th-9th I think we are too easy to play against and very predictable. I don't think the signings we have made make us any more a threat going forward . Goals win games and unfortunately we won't score many
So, 9th - 17th. Talk about hedging your bet s.😉
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I think we will improve slightly finish between 9th 11th
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I dont think most people outside of Villa are expecting us to pull up many trees.
https://www.football365.com/news/predicting-positions-other-14-premier-league-clubs
My 1 year old son could write a better article than that.
Any article that includes the phrase ‘the other 14 Premier League clubs' in its headline can f*ck right off!
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I think we will improve slightly finish between 9th 11th
But that's boring!
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Ambition 6th plus Cup
Expectation (minimum requirement) 11th
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Unless we get a better midfield and a striker who can finish better than Watkins I expect us to finish somewhere between 9th and 14th.
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Don't expect to use the train for the first home game.
Yes, I bought my train tickets last week from Manchester to Witton as only me travelling as my 2 sons are on holiday and the fuel costs are now astronomical ! Had to book National Express last night, first coach back doesn't get back in Manchester till 7.55 pm and then got to go via tram to Bury to get my car before I get home. Grrh !!
P.S I support any worker's right to withdraw their labour - but just not on a Villa home game day when I'm going.
My lad lives in Bury, so there’s at least 2 Villa boys up there amongst the manc supporters
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Expect 10th...hope for 7th
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A lot of clubs around us have also had reasonable windows. Some clubs have not (so far). Man Utd should be deemed catchable. They probably won't be, but should be. Leicester are weaker. Wolves too. Brighton and Brentford will drop below what they've done.
Newcastle haven't had the window most expected but will still be a big rival. Everton will struggle again. For me:
1- Man City
2- Liverpool
3- Spurs
4- Arsenal
5- Chelski
6- WH
7- Utd - 60-65 points-ish
13- Brighton - 45 points.
14- Southampton
15- Forest
16- Everton
17- Brentford
18- Leeds
19- Fulham
20- Bournemouth
We're in a group of 8-12th which is all much of a muchness. Brighton might exceed expectations again and come into it. I would expect a gap above that 13-14th area of 5-10 points. I'd also expect a gap of 5-10points from 8-7th. I fancy us to finish ahead of Wolves and Palace. On paper ourselves and Newcastle should be the best of that midriff, but like all of them, we could go either way.
I don't see us breaking the top 7.
Much of this could change by the window closing of course. Then you've got the surprisingly good, and the disappointing to contend with. There'll be surprises.
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I think West Ham are catchable if we get our midfield balance right. I don't think they're stronger than us outside of that area. Hopefully their new Italian striker will emulate Andrea Silenzi et al.
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Can see Everton in bottom 5
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Not expecting much, would be nice to pleasantly surprised.
The script is mid table, knocked out the cup by Man U. Followed by loosing our best player to someone further up the food chain. Rinse and repeat.
Maybe a cup run, just maybe.
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Confident we’ll better last season but by how much and whether it is enough I’m not so sure.
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I expect us to be harder to play through. To be more intense and aggressive defensively and in the way we press.
To keep the ball better too.
To turn more defeats into gritty draws and more winning positions into 3 points.
I hope this leads to a top half finish.
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Similar to CCR, expect 8th-10th...hoping for 7th.
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9th to 11th for me. We are still a couple of class players away from being a top 8 side. Hoping to give a few of the so-called top 6 a bloody nose here and there. Really need to be more ruthless in front of goal.
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Today, I have engaged in an in-depth, scientific, multi-sourced examination of every Premier League team as it stands today. It took about 15 minutes, but I did have up to five browser tabs open at any one time, so it has to be good.
** I have put no thought into the order of the teams in each group, only which group I believe they will finish in **
Title Contenders:
Man City, Liverpool
Champions League:
Chelsea, Spurs
Europe:
West Ham, Arsenal, Man U
Top Half:
Brighton, Villa, Palace
Safe:
Leicester, Wolves, Newcastle, Brentford
Survival:
Everton, Southampton, Forest
GONE:
Bournemouth, Leeds, Fulham
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Today, I have engaged in an in-depth, scientific, multi-sourced examination of every Premier League team as it stands today. It took about 15 minutes, but I did have up to five browser tabs open at any one time, so it has to be good.
** I have put no thought into the order of the teams in each group, only which group I believe they will finish in **
Title Contenders:
Man City, Liverpool
Champions League:
Chelsea, Spurs
Europe:
West Ham, Arsenal, Man U
Top Half:
Brighton, Villa, Palace
Safe:
Leicester, Wolves, Newcastle, Brentford
Survival:
Everton, Southampton, Forest
GONE:
Bournemouth, Leeds, Fulham
I would like to think that we are in the European group as see both Wet Spam and the Red cnuts as our should be targets.
I had picked the same group to be relegated
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Nice to see BBC Sport online choose their teams to potentially break into the Top 2 and include Newcastle as the only one other than the obvious 4 ha ha
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I think 'top half', 'safe' and West Ham could end up in any of those positions in any order depending on circumstances, the rest looks likely.
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Top 10 minimum. Ideally aim for 7th.
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Today, I have engaged in an in-depth, scientific, multi-sourced examination of every Premier League team as it stands today. It took about 15 minutes, but I did have up to five browser tabs open at any one time, so it has to be good.
** I have put no thought into the order of the teams in each group, only which group I believe they will finish in **
Title Contenders:
Man City, Liverpool
Champions League:
Chelsea, Spurs
Europe:
West Ham, Arsenal, Man U
Top Half:
Brighton, Villa, Palace
Safe:
Leicester, Wolves, Newcastle, Brentford
Survival:
Everton, Southampton, Forest
GONE:
Bournemouth, Leeds, Fulham
Id be tempted to swap Arsenal for Chelsea, who I think have gone a bit backwards with the players that have left, compared to whose come in.
I also think Spurs could be a surprise package in the title race, given their signings, the front two and the Conte factor.
Although they have been much better than us over last two years, i think/hope West Ham are catchable.
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Wolves are going down this season :)
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I don't know why, but suddenly the division looks a bit tougher this season.
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They really aren't.
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Wolves are going down this season :)
Portugese second division?
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First manager to get the bullet: Eddie Howe, even if they are doing ok. Alternative is Big Ralph.
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1 Man City
2 Liverpool
3 Tottenham
4 Arsenal
5 Chelsea
6 Man U
7 Newcastle
8 West Ham
9 Villa
10 Brighton
11 Wolves
12 Palace
13 Southampton
14 Fulham
15 Leicester
16 Dirty Leeds
17 Everton
18 Cuntford
19 Forest
20 Bournemouth
FA Cup: Chelsea
League Cup: Man City
Champions League: Liverpool
Europa League: some team that drops out of the Champions League, probably Sevilla
Europa Conference League: Villarreal
World Cup: France
WSL: Chelsea
Villa Women: 10th
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Why so confident on Fulham?
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I dunno, just feel that Mitrovic is going to have a decent Premier League season at last. He isn't scoring forty odd goals like last year, obviously, but I reckon he gets enough so they nick a few wins, especially at home.
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Why so confident on Fulham?
I'm struggling with confidence in Newcastle.
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Today, I have engaged in an in-depth, scientific, multi-sourced examination of every Premier League team as it stands today. It took about 15 minutes, but I did have up to five browser tabs open at any one time, so it has to be good.
** I have put no thought into the order of the teams in each group, only which group I believe they will finish in **
Title Contenders:
Man City, Liverpool
Champions League:
Chelsea, Spurs
Europe:
West Ham, Arsenal, Man U
Top Half:
Brighton, Villa, Palace
Safe:
Leicester, Wolves, Newcastle, Brentford
Survival:
Everton, Southampton, Forest
GONE:
Bournemouth, Leeds, Fulham
This is great shout
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Liverpool - win the league
2nd - Spurs
3rd - City (will focus on the European Cup, and win the League Cup)
4th - Chelsea
Villa - 10th - and QF of the FA Cup - lose to Man Utd on a VAR decision
Bottom 3
Everton
Fulham
Bournemouth
Leading goal scorer - Harry Kane (will also win Player of the Year)
Young Player of the Year - Harvey Elliott - Liverpool - And Southgate will pick him for the World Cup Squad
1st Manager Sacked - Southampton's Manager
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Today, I have engaged in an in-depth, scientific, multi-sourced examination of every Premier League team as it stands today. It took about 15 minutes, but I did have up to five browser tabs open at any one time, so it has to be good.
** I have put no thought into the order of the teams in each group, only which group I believe they will finish in **
Title Contenders:
Man City, Liverpool
Champions League:
Chelsea, Spurs
Europe:
West Ham, Arsenal, Man U
Top Half:
Brighton, Villa, Palace
Safe:
Leicester, Wolves, Newcastle, Brentford
Survival:
Everton, Southampton, Forest
GONE:
Bournemouth, Leeds, Fulham
This is great shout
Yeah this is good shouts - I would probably have Newcastle top half though
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Title: Liverpool
Top Four: Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Chelsea (just)
Surprise strugglers: Leicester
Bottom 3: Bournemouth, Fulham and Everton
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No idea but somewhere around 8th would be a decent first full season for Gerrard and maybe the Caraboa Cup.
What I would like to see is an end to gifting struggling sides points and I'd like to see a few dominant 90 minute performances this season rather than just the freak rarity that comes along once in a blue moon.
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No idea but somewhere around 8th would be a decent first full season for Gerrard and maybe the Caraboa Cup.
What I would like to see is an end to gifting struggling sides points and I'd like to see a few dominant 90 minute performances this season rather than just the freak rarity that comes along once in a blue moon.
Agree. We simply can’t lose one of the most games outside the bottom three again. I want to see skill and excitement, but i also want to see some dogs of war type draws and scrappy wins, that would of been soft defeats last year, games like Newcastle away and Wolves, home and away.
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No idea but somewhere around 8th would be a decent first full season for Gerrard and maybe the Caraboa Cup.
If we win a cup it is our best season for 27 years straight away
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Even the league cup seems out of reach for all but the scab 6 these days, sadly...
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Yes that is true. Look at our final opponents since 96, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Man City. I don't think we were favourites in any of those matches, although in 2000 there was only one league place between us. 2013 was the big lost opportunity, although Swansea were better than us that season as well.
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Arsenal have scored 20 goals in 5 pre season games so I think they could be a surprise package this year
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What I want:
More game time for Buendia, Archer to be given a go, more Sanson, less Doug, SJM 20 yards further up the pitch, Konsa back to his best.
What I fear:
Coutinho playing regularly for who he is rather than what he does, Doug at No6, Archer on loan somewhere, Sanson frozen out again, Watkins struggling, McPhee to the fore.
If something similar to the former transpires I hope for top ten and a cup run, I hope for the same with the latter but although I can see a cup run, I can only see us finishing in roughly the same place as last season.
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What I want:
More game time for Buendia, Archer to be given a go, more Sanson, less Doug, SJM 20 yards further up the pitch, Konsa back to his best.
What I fear:
Coutinho playing regularly for who he is rather than what he does, Doug at No6, Archer on loan somewhere, Sanson frozen out again, Watkins struggling, McPhee to the fore.
If something similar to the former transpires I hope for top ten and a cup run, I hope for the same with the latter but although I can see a cup run, I can only see us finishing in roughly the same place as last season.
Well summed up, if it’s the latter then we have a manager problem.
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Yes that is true. Look at our final opponents since 96, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Man City. I don't think we were favourites in any of those matches, although in 2000 there was only one league place between us. 2013 was the big lost opportunity, although Swansea were better than us that season as well.
2004, too. Finished above both Bolton and Middlesbrough that year.
And if we had made it past shithouse Leicester in 2000 we'd have had a final against Tranmere. That one seems to have got forgotten about. I only remember the replayed West Ham game from our run to the semis.
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Yes that is true. Look at our final opponents since 96, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Man City. I don't think we were favourites in any of those matches, although in 2000 there was only one league place between us. 2013 was the big lost opportunity, although Swansea were better than us that season as well.
2004, too. Finished above both Bolton and Middlesbrough that year.
And if we had made it past shithouse Leicester in 2000 we'd have had a final against Tranmere. That one seems to have got forgotten about. I only remember the replayed West Ham game from our run to the semis.
I've more or less brushed that Leicester semi from my mind, both legs were shite but the second leg at that old shithole was depressingly, predictably shite. They were like Allardyce's Bolton, and to be honest us under the same manager, dropping like flies to get set pieces and we'd fall for it every time.
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I reckon the biggest shock of the season will be we won't play Man United in the FA Cup.
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I reckon the biggest shock of the season will be we won't play Man United in the FA Cup.
I think they've actually codified this into law from this season.
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Yes that is true. Look at our final opponents since 96, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Man City. I don't think we were favourites in any of those matches, although in 2000 there was only one league place between us. 2013 was the big lost opportunity, although Swansea were better than us that season as well.
2004, too. Finished above both Bolton and Middlesbrough that year.
And if we had made it past shithouse Leicester in 2000 we'd have had a final against Tranmere. That one seems to have got forgotten about. I only remember the replayed West Ham game from our run to the semis.
I've more or less brushed that Leicester semi from my mind, both legs were shite but the second leg at that old shithole was depressingly, predictably shite. They were like Allardyce's Bolton, and to be honest us under the same manager, dropping like flies to get set pieces and we'd fall for it every time.
That's the one to bring up when anyone looks back on the Gregory era with any degree of fondness. Three semis and a final with no goals and hardly a shot on target.
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What I want:
More game time for Buendia, Archer to be given a go, more Sanson, less Doug, SJM 20 yards further up the pitch, Konsa back to his best.
What I fear:
Coutinho playing regularly for who he is rather than what he does, Doug at No6, Archer on loan somewhere, Sanson frozen out again, Watkins struggling, McPhee to the fore.
If something similar to the former transpires I hope for top ten and a cup run, I hope for the same with the latter but although I can see a cup run, I can only see us finishing in roughly the same place as last season.
Snap!
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First manager to go: wee Brendan.
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I would not be surprised if Brendan resigned commenting that "the project that he was sold has now changed"
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Yes that is true. Look at our final opponents since 96, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Man City. I don't think we were favourites in any of those matches, although in 2000 there was only one league place between us. 2013 was the big lost opportunity, although Swansea were better than us that season as well.
2004, too. Finished above both Bolton and Middlesbrough that year.
And if we had made it past shithouse Leicester in 2000 we'd have had a final against Tranmere. That one seems to have got forgotten about. I only remember the replayed West Ham game from our run to the semis.
I've more or less brushed that Leicester semi from my mind, both legs were shite but the second leg at that old shithole was depressingly, predictably shite. They were like Allardyce's Bolton, and to be honest us under the same manager, dropping like flies to get set pieces and we'd fall for it every time.
That's the one to bring up when anyone looks back on the Gregory era with any degree of fondness. Three semis and a final with no goals and hardly a shot on target.
He did get us there, mind!
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No idea but somewhere around 8th would be a decent first full season for Gerrard and maybe the Caraboa Cup.
If we win a cup it is our best season for 27 years straight away
If we win a cup and finish 8th I’ll build the statue for him myself
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What I want:
More game time for Buendia, Archer to be given a go, more Sanson, less Doug, SJM 20 yards further up the pitch, Konsa back to his best.
What I fear:
Coutinho playing regularly for who he is rather than what he does, Doug at No6, Archer on loan somewhere, Sanson frozen out again, Watkins struggling, McPhee to the fore.
If something similar to the former transpires I hope for top ten and a cup run, I hope for the same with the latter but although I can see a cup run, I can only see us finishing in roughly the same place as last season.
A good summary, pretty much how I’m feeling
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8th, just behind West Ham and the usual suspects, just ahead of Newcastle and Palace.
Leeds or Everton to drop along with Bournemouth and Fulham or Forest.
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Looking at the current squad make up and barring any major transfer activity in the coming weeks I’d say we’re looking at 7th to 10th. I think we have a slightly imbalanced Europa League level squad (that probably true of at least 6 other teams as well) so being competitive in that mini league will be interesting. Cup runs are a must for us this year to generate excitement and interest and hopefully end this quite frankly embarrassing last quarter of a century.
My overriding impression though is we’re moving in the right direction both on and off the pitch though Gerrard hasn’t quite worked out how the on pitch jigsaw pieces fit together.
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Looking at the current squad make up and barring any major transfer activity in the coming weeks I’d say we’re looking at 7th to 10th. I think we have a slightly imbalanced Europa League level squad (that probably true of at least 6 other teams as well) so being competitive in that mini league will be interesting. Cup runs are a must for us this year to generate excitement and interest and hopefully end this quite frankly embarrassing last quarter of a century.
My overriding impression though is we’re moving in the right direction both on and off the pitch though Gerrard hasn’t quite worked out how the on pitch jigsaw pieces fit together.
Good summary - especially the last paragraph and exactly my thoughts also
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With the additions already made, the development of younger squad players & Gerrard having a pre-season with the squad. I can't believe we'll be the pushovers we've been.
Then include the abandonment of last season's 5 at the back & Bailey/ Cash taking long throw-ins. I see no reason why 7-8 place is not a serious target.
Obviously we've got to be lucky with injuries, but assuming we are, a European place is there.
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Looking at the current squad make up and barring any major transfer activity in the coming weeks I’d say we’re looking at 7th to 10th. I think we have a slightly imbalanced Europa League level squad (that probably true of at least 6 other teams as well) so being competitive in that mini league will be interesting. Cup runs are a must for us this year to generate excitement and interest and hopefully end this quite frankly embarrassing last quarter of a century.
My overriding impression though is we’re moving in the right direction both on and off the pitch though Gerrard hasn’t quite worked out how the on pitch jigsaw pieces fit together.
Good summary - especially the last paragraph and exactly my thoughts also
It's a similar position that Sir Brian was in. Took over mid season following a popular manager getting the sack, then struggled to get a tune out of the players he inherited. Got in his own players in place in the summer, took a few matches for them all to settle, then really saw the team up to speed by the autumn.
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From The Torygraph. Copied and pasted from paywall so apologies if any mistakes. 😬
How Steven Gerrard is planning to realise Aston Villa's European dream
Gerrard has made changes to the squad and received the financial backing of Villa’s board, with further spending planned
Steven Gerrard’s standards as a player were always dizzyingly high, so the final months of last season with Aston Villa will have been excruciating.
As he emerged from a lap of celebration following Villa’s final home game of last season, a 1-1 draw against Burnley, the frustration was clear to see.
“Moving forward, this club cannot finish 14th again. We need to change things and come back better and stronger next season,” he said.
After being appointed last November, and introducing a new playing style, this is the season in which Gerrard can now be truly judged as Villa’s manager and he is in no mood to tolerate another underwhelming campaign. He is targeting a top-half finish, at the bare minimum, and European football remains the ultimate aim for owners Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens.
A drastic summer shake-up was inevitable, with five new signings including Philippe Coutinho and Diego Carlos, while Tyrone Mings has been replaced as captain by John McGinn. It was a ruthless, calculated move which underlined Gerrard’s determination to stamp his own imprint on the squad, and has led to comparisons being drawn between the manager and his former boss at Liverpool, Gerard Houllier.
The Frenchman was confirmed as Liverpool’s permanent manager in November 1998 and used the remaining seven months to scrutinise the squad, assessing who he could rely on and who was dispensable, a process that led to Paul Ince being replaced as captain in the summer. Gerrard’s move to take the armband off Mings is a similarly big statement. In a mature and cordial conversation, Mings took the decision well and accepted the reasons for it.
Gerrard has made changes to the squad and received the financial backing of Villa’s board, with more than £45 million spent so far. He has also been permitted to overhaul the transfer policy by signing older, more experienced players: Coutinho was 30 in June while Carlos and Lucas Digne are both 29.
Carlos already appears a very promising buy, producing impressive performances during Villa’s pre-season tour of Australia. The club were initially told to pay more than €40m (£33m) by Sevilla for the centre-back and other alternatives were briefly considered, including James Tarkowski, with Gerrard even making a presentation to the former Burnley defender at his house.
Yet after three days of intense negotiations, a fee of £26m was agreed for Carlos. He has already been named as joint vice-captain.
There is also genuine excitement over the capture of midfielder Boubacar Kamara, who joined from Marseille on a free transfer. He was viewed as a young, high-potential Ligue 1 star, and is already a full France international.
Gerrard is still targeting a ‘No 8’ midfielder before the transfer window closes, and possibly another forward, while there are also plans to extend the stays of some of the current stars: constructive talks are ongoing with Douglas Luiz over a new contract, with the Brazilian’s deal running out next year. The midfielder has interest from Champions League clubs but Villa remain hopeful that he will stay.
There are also high hopes that Leon Bailey, the £25m buy from Bayer Leverkusen, will have a big season after a first season ravaged with injuries.
Trimming the squad remains a priority, with a number of players up for sale including Bertrand Traore, Anwar El Ghazi, Kortney Hause and Frederic Guilbert.
Carney Chukwuemeka, the England under-19 international, also departed this week in a £20m deal to Chelsea. Villa offered to make him the best paid teenager in England and dangled a regular starting place during a frustrating contract stand-off which was unresolved for nearly a year.
But Chelsea’s offer was regarded as too good to turn down for a player who, despite his undoubted ability, made just two league starts - with one of them a disappointing 57-minute appearance in that Burnley match.
But there are homegrown talents that Villa are building their future around, including Jacob and Aaron Ramsey, Cameron Archer and Tim Iroegbunam. Under Mark Harrison’s leadership, Villa have built the largest academy site in the Premier League from scratch, lifted the FA Youth Cup in 2021 and had three players in the England under-19s team who won this year’s European Championship.
Gerrard is fully on board with the academy set-up, and this summer persuaded Neil Critchley, one of English football’s most highly regarded coaches and a long-term target of Gerrard from his time at Rangers, to leave Blackpool as his new assistant after Michael Beale’s appointment at QPR.
A fee of more than £1.2m was required to bring the 43-year-old to Villa Park, and he is seen as a modern, progressive coach who is eager to embrace modern methodology.
They have a few problems to solve ahead of the new season: who starts in defence, with Carlos, Mings and Ezri Konsa competing for the two centre-back positions, while the Coutinho and Emiliano Buendia issue remains a hot topic for supporters.
Buendia is Villa’s record signing and always has some degree of impact when he plays. Coutinho, meanwhile, did disappoint on a number of occasions during his loan spell from Barcelona despite his undoubted ability.
Not many loan players would have completed a permanent £17 million move after his performances in the latter months of the season, but Gerrard has total faith in him.
In pre-season, Villa have set up in either a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 and Gerrard seems to have built the foundations around being harder to beat and more disciplined in defence, despite the array of attacking talent at his disposal.
It all starts again for Gerrard at Bournemouth on Saturday, and he knows the spotlight will be on him. Expectations will be high, but the pursuit of perfection remains the driving force, just as it did when he was a player.
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I hope Coutino can show the form he showed in his first few games, we cannot afford to carry passengers no matter the pedigree. Concerned that the two main strikers didn't show much improvement in pre-season games. The big positive is that we have a stronger squad which may yet get stronger, so please Mr Gerrard pick players on form.
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Agree on Coutinho. He needs to do more and consistently so.
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Gerrard has had his pre season, got who he wants in early and is trimming the first team squad slowly. You would hope that will lead to a better start than last term, when Smith had all sorts of problems both on and off the pitch, which ultimately lead to his sacking.
For the season? I expect a positive goal difference, we’ve only had one season where that occurred in the top flight since 2009; beating a couple of the “big six” as well as a run in the cup. I really do not want to be looking at the fixtures in April/May next year and thinking we have nothing to play for with a guaranteed finish between 13th and 15th, or worse.
So I expect us to finish between 7th and 11th with a cup run. Some steady improvement and consistency I suppose.
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Looking at the current squad make up and barring any major transfer activity in the coming weeks I’d say we’re looking at 7th to 10th. I think we have a slightly imbalanced Europa League level squad (that probably true of at least 6 other teams as well) so being competitive in that mini league will be interesting. Cup runs are a must for us this year to generate excitement and interest and hopefully end this quite frankly embarrassing last quarter of a century.
My overriding impression though is we’re moving in the right direction both on and off the pitch though Gerrard hasn’t quite worked out how the on pitch jigsaw pieces fit together.
Good summary - especially the last paragraph and exactly my thoughts also
It's a similar position that Sir Brian was in. Took over mid season following a popular manager getting the sack, then struggled to get a tune out of the players he inherited. Got in his own players in place in the summer, took a few matches for them all to settle, then really saw the team up to speed by the autumn.
Took so many matches for them to settle that we were 3-0 up against the eventual double winners at half time in the first match!
If the Little comparisons are anywhere near accurate I will be cock a hoop but I am sceptical personally.
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I would say the target has to be 8th minimum. SG has had half a season, bought in some very decent players, and should be expected to get more consistency. Smith got 55 points, the target this season should be 59-65, upper mid table region. There are 6-7 sides that to me look nailed on for the top 6 and bottom 6. That leaves 5-6 clubs battling for 8th-13th, so coming top of that league has to be the target.
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I would say the target has to be 8th minimum. SG has had half a season, bought in some very decent players, and should be expected to get more consistency. Smith got 55 points, the target this season should be 59-65, upper mid table region. There are 6-7 sides that to me look nailed on for the top 6 and bottom 6. That leaves 5-6 clubs battling for 8th-13th, so coming top of that league has to be the target.
Splitting hairs, but don’t think Man Ure are nailed on top 6. Otherwise agree with what you say.
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1-5: Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, M city, Tottenham
6-10: Aston villa, M united, Newcastle, West ham, Wolves
11-15: Brentford, Brighton, Crystal p, Everton, Leicester
16-20: Bournemouth, Fulham, Nottingham, Leeds, Southampton
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I think with the squad as stands at this moment we’re looking at 10th. If there are other buys we should go higher maybe 8th. Going against the grain somewhat but I don’t really care what we do in the cups. The club doesn’t care so why should we.
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I think with the squad as stands at this moment we’re looking at 10th. If there are other buys we should go higher maybe 8th. Going against the grain somewhat but I don’t really care what we do in the cups. The club doesn’t care so why should we.
Because as fans it's kind of nice to see the club lift a trophy?
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I think with the squad as stands at this moment we’re looking at 10th. If there are other buys we should go higher maybe 8th. Going against the grain somewhat but I don’t really care what we do in the cups. The club doesn’t care so why should we.
Because as fans it's kind of nice to see the club lift a trophy?
And the club and Smith and Gerrard have repeatedly said they want to compete in the cups…
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One thing is sure, though, 10 years of not being in the top half of the top flight (inc three not being in the top flight at all) is absolutely not good enough.
We can't go on and on about what a big club we are and mooking about in 14th or 15th year after year.
Gerrard is right, it's unacceptable, and he's got to make sure it doesn't happen again, otherwise he's going to wind up the next name on a depressingly long list of failed managers.
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Top 10. I'd like 8th.
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I think with the squad as stands at this moment we’re looking at 10th. If there are other buys we should go higher maybe 8th. Going against the grain somewhat but I don’t really care what we do in the cups. The club doesn’t care so why should we.
Because as fans it's kind of nice to see the club lift a trophy?
The Cups are an opportunity to actually win something, gain more profile and attract better players to the club. Given that we will not compete for a top 4 slot anytime soon, the Cups are a great place to build a winning habit. The League Cup provides a platform for playing our younger players in a full-blown tournament. The FA Cup is still a high-profile tournament for Villa to build its international reputation.
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Guess it worked for Lesta until 2022.
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I think with the squad as stands at this moment we’re looking at 10th. If there are other buys we should go higher maybe 8th. Going against the grain somewhat but I don’t really care what we do in the cups. The club doesn’t care so why should we.
On what are you basing your theory that "the club doesn't care"?
This was the team that started our last cup game:
Martinez, Cash, Konsa, Mings, Targett, McGinn, Luiz, Jacob Ramsey, Buendia, Ings, Watkins.
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I’ve got a feeling it’s going to be a good season.
6-8th I think is possible
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7th- 9th depending on the form of the others who would expect the same.
5th round FA Cup.
Semi Final League Cup.
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Worst case - 10th and FA Cup
Best case - 6th and FA Cup
Nothing else will suffice! ;)
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I think with the squad as stands at this moment we’re looking at 10th. If there are other buys we should go higher maybe 8th. Going against the grain somewhat but I don’t really care what we do in the cups. The club doesn’t care so why should we.
Because as fans it's kind of nice to see the club lift a trophy?
And the club and Smith and Gerrard have repeatedly said they want to compete in the cups…
I love Deano but he never took the cups seriously until we were in the semi final. Gerrard did play a full strength team in his one game so far.
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I don't trust Gerrard to do things like drop the likes of Coutinho or McGinn if they're not performing. He spoke of changing line ups in the past then when the next game came along he changed fuck all (I know he has more available changes now but still). Basically he has to convince me because I still don't trust him. 11th/12th.
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I’ve absolutely no doubt Gerrard will drop anyone who dips below his standards. The issue we’ve had is the strength of the squad to enable real competition. He’s addressed many issues we’ve had in that department apart from central midfield. Get another in there and I don’t see why our expectations shouldn’t be a challenge for 7th.
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Win the F.A. Cup.
Win the F.A. Cup
Win the F.A. Cup
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Winning it three times in a season would go some way towards making up for our disgraceful record in the last 102 years.
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I think with the squad as stands at this moment we’re looking at 10th. If there are other buys we should go higher maybe 8th. Going against the grain somewhat but I don’t really care what we do in the cups. The club doesn’t care so why should we.
Because as fans it's kind of nice to see the club lift a trophy?
And the club and Smith and Gerrard have repeatedly said they want to compete in the cups…
I love Deano but he never took the cups seriously until we were in the semi final. Gerrard did play a full strength team in his one game so far.
Every Villa manager every first week in January says it's time we won the FA Cup then puts the reserves out in the third round, unless we're playing Manchester United.
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We don't play a weaker team than anyone else. Remember loads of fuss when Lambert said something like "it's a distraction we could do without" and people seem to assume we don't care ever since, but, as I recall, the only change we then made from the previous league game was the goalie.
It's probably fair to say we weren't that arsed when we were in the Championship but, as a Premier League side, we tend to put a strongish team out. Smith never took charge of an FA Cup game while we were in the Premier League but put out much stronger teams than Brighton or Wolves did when we played them in the Leage Cup so seems pretty unlikely he wouldn't have picked a competitive team against Liverpool if he'd been able to do so.
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It strikes me that us supporters will accept a certain amount of weaker team but there's a trigger point beyond which we seem to regard it as a personal insult.
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It strikes me that us supporters will accept a certain amount of weaker team but there's a trigger point beyond which we seem to regard it as a personal insult.
I think that’s right. This season with more squad strength we ‘should’ be able to change a few but still remain strong, obviously depending on who we are playing.
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We don't play a weaker team than anyone else. Remember loads of fuss when Lambert said something like "it's a distraction we could do without" and people seem to assume we don't care ever since, but, as I recall, the only change we then made from the previous league game was the goalie.
It's probably fair to say we weren't that arsed when we were in the Championship but, as a Premier League side, we tend to put a strongish team out. Smith never took charge of an FA Cup game while we were in the Premier League but put out much stronger teams than Brighton or Wolves did when we played them in the Leage Cup so seems pretty unlikely he wouldn't have picked a competitive team against Liverpool if he'd been able to do so.
Eh? Fulham (of the Championship) 2, Aston Villa 1. Our team that day: Nyland, Elmo, Engels, Chester, Taylor, Lansbury, Nakamba, Hourihane, Jota, Kodjia. El Ghazi.
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Well, I've clearly erased that from my memory so it doesn't count. 🙂
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It strikes me that us supporters will accept a certain amount of weaker team but there's a trigger point beyond which we seem to regard it as a personal insult.
I think it is nice to see a couple of younger prospects get a start in a cup game against lower league opposition, and a couple of squad players who don't usually start. But to see a whole starting eleven changed out is just too much.
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It strikes me that us supporters will accept a certain amount of weaker team but there's a trigger point beyond which we seem to regard it as a personal insult.
Agree with this. Case in point was the League Cup defeat to Stoke a couple of seasons back. I was fuming.
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I'll accept a slightly weaker team if we win. However, given we have no European competition, we should go all out in the four competitions we enter.
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Absolutely no excuses to field weakened teams in the cup this season apart from maybe resting Martinez against League 1 oppostion or below. We have a big squad with plenty of quality on the bench.
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With the 5 subs rule and hopefully coasting on the coast by 3 goals at half time then can have a 'weakened' team second half or at some point give players minutes today!
And in any fixture we may be comfortable in.
We averaged just under 3 subs a match
2.97 a match.
As an overall trend, teams have increasingly used more substitutions over the past 10 seasons and averaged at around 2.8 per game last term.
I think we'll utilise them this season in a lot of matches and use the quota of 5.
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Absolutely no excuses to field weakened teams in the cup this season apart from maybe resting Martinez against League 1 oppostion or below. We have a big squad with plenty of quality on the bench.
3rd round of the FAC comes roughly a week after the post-WC resumption. I suspect there'll be some players rested.
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That performance at Fulham was so limp. Not as bad as the 0-3(?) Cup knock-out to Swansea at home the previous year, I think.
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League 10th
FA Cup 5th Round
League Cup Winners
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It strikes me that us supporters will accept a certain amount of weaker team but there's a trigger point beyond which we seem to regard it as a personal insult.
A mix and match is best in early rounds. Kesler at RB and Archer at CF but with a mix of senior internationals around them. If one of Mings/Chambers dosen't get picked for early prem games they'll be starting in this as will Augustinsson and Robin Olsen, all internationals.
Think it more depends on draw. We really should've beaten Man. United but that's still a tricky draw away for third round. Got Chelsea early in the league cup and they made the final and lost on penalties.
Generally when we've reached cup finals in last 20 years we'd generally had lower league teams at home and then played serious team at business end of the competition which is how you'd want it.
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If we stay with the squad as is, I think an improved season is likely, but European qualification via the league unlikely. Think we have Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal all certain to finish ahead of us. Then West Ham, Leicester, Wolves, Newcastle and us vying for the top 10 spots. So with no further additions somewhere between 7-10th in the league.
FA cup I hope we get to at least the quarter final, but can;t see us winning it. League cup I hope we get to at least the semi final, and do think we could win it.
If we sign anther top level midfielder, and maybe a striker then can see us being in the mix with Man Utd and Arsenal for a top 6 spot though.
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I'm not saying we'll finish 6th or 7th but I don't think Yanited are guaranteed to finish ahead of us.
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Yep, I hope Leon leaves De Gea on his arse, with half his kit caked in mud like in 'Straya last month.
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I don't trust Gerrard to do things like drop the likes of Coutinho or McGinn if they're not performing. He spoke of changing line ups in the past then when the next game came along he changed fuck all (I know he has more available changes now but still). Basically he has to convince me because I still don't trust him. 11th/12th.
I've got a feeling I'll be thinking that first line many, many times this season. Hopefully he proves me wrong but as one is captain then I doubt it.
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Despite the poor start the season expectations are stil there
A top half to top 8 finish and to go further in the cup competitions.
It's also the remit as we are aware for the club and manager so things need to get on track to achieve such.
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I expect a sacking.
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It looks like we are in for a very tough season.
That opening day defeat against Bournemouth after a promising pre season has set the tone, compounded by poor selections, team structure and morale.
I can not see how this squad is going to do anything but battle to stay out of a relegation fight and that presupposes that they have the fight.
We have problems in every department.
Martinez has proved he is more than capable of match defining clangers.
The defence looks vulnerable with both full backs all over the place and without our new signing we do not have a convincing central partnership.
Our midfield is the biggest concern and whoever is managing us needs to find a platform of Kamara and another to provide some sort of defensive base.Luiz and Samson who could provide some stability may not even be options.
Our attacking options are problematic
Coutinho looks unable to physically deal with the intensity of PL football, Ings looks past it and a Championship level player, Watkins full of running, not prolific but our best bet to lead the line.
Archer untried and Bailey mercurial if being kind.
Survival is my hope and expectation right now.
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It looks like we are in for a very tough season.
That opening day defeat against Bournemouth after a promising pre season has set the tone, compounded by poor selections, team structure and morale.
I can not see how this squad is going to do anything but battle to stay out of a relegation fight and that presupposes that they have the fight.
We have problems in every department.
Martinez has proved he is more than capable of match defining clangers.
The defence looks vulnerable with both full backs all over the place and without our new signing we do not have a convincing central partnership.
Our midfield is the biggest concern and whoever is managing us needs to find a platform of Kamara and another to provide some sort of defensive base.Luiz and Samson who could provide some stability may not even be options.
Our attacking options are problematic
Coutinho looks unable to physically deal with the intensity of PL football, Ings looks past it and a Championship level player, Watkins full of running, not prolific but our best bet to lead the line.
Archer untried and Bailey mercurial if being kind.
Survival is my hope and expectation right now.
I agree with all this.
How, 10 years on we’ve got ourselves into the exact position MON left us in after giving the manager too much control.
The real worry is are there 3 worse teams than Villa?
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I think the squad's alright, and with a decent manager we'll be fine. Gerrard absolutely isn't a decent manager though.
Expect another mid table finish if we bin off Gerrard soon. A good manager would have the squad at their disposal pushing for Europe, particularly if we'd have brought in Sarr.
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What are the current expectations? Revised? It seems that some call for a new manager as expectation.
If Villa don't fall into the relegation zone at any time throughout the season, I believe Gerrard may be given the full season.
SG has said it taking longer than perhaps first hoped to push on and needs a few more windows.
But as there were set targets in place to achieve then how does the remote change if doesn't meet them.
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What are the current expectations? Revised? It seems that some call for a new manager as expectation.
If Villa don't fall into the relegation zone at any time throughout the season, I believe Gerrard may be given the full season.
SG has said it taking longer than perhaps first hoped to push on and needs a few more windows.
But as there were set targets in place to achieve then how does the remote change if doesn't meet them.
I have no reason to change what I wrote September 1st, I expect us to survive but it’s going to be Bruceball ugly.
The board may see a change of manager a bigger risk than sticking with the meat grinder approach that is being applied now.
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I'm still of the mind that the side we have is, or should be, strong enough to finish upper mid table. I'd stick by my 1st September view that as long as we bin Gerrard off soon, Europe remains a distant but achievable goal. Four years in, finishing in the top half should be a minimum expectation of any manager. Gerrard isn't doing that and has shown no signs that he's able to do it either.
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I'm still of the mind that the side we have is, or should be, strong enough to finish upper mid table. I'd stick by my 1st September view that as long as we bin Gerrard off soon, Europe remains a distant but achievable goal. Four years in, finishing in the top half should be a minimum expectation of any manager. Gerrard isn't doing that and has shown no signs that he's able to do it either.
I think we'll be hoping to salvage mid-table respectabillity come the end of the season, and that only if we act soon and bin off Tim Scousewood.
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I said loads of times I'd be dissapointed with anything below 8th the season because of the strength of our squad. I still think man for man it is better than the squads of most other middling teams, I just hadn't accounted for how truly shit our coaching would be.
I'll take 10th now.
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I said loads of times I'd be dissapointed with anything below 8th the season because of the strength of our squad. I still think man for man it is better than the squads of most other middling teams, I just hadn't accounted for how truly shit our coaching would be.
I'll take 10th now.
I'd bite yer hand off.
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I said loads of times I'd be dissapointed with anything below 8th the season because of the strength of our squad. I still think man for man it is better than the squads of most other middling teams, I just hadn't accounted for how truly shit our coaching would be.
I'll take 10th now.
I agree but I'm surprised to see you say this since you were claiming yesterday that our signings since Lange arrived weren't good enough and asking me if I thought we'd done better in the market than teams like Leicester, Brentford and Brighton.
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I said loads of times I'd be dissapointed with anything below 8th the season because of the strength of our squad. I still think man for man it is better than the squads of most other middling teams, I just hadn't accounted for how truly shit our coaching would be.
I'll take 10th now.
I agree but I'm surprised to see you say this since you were claiming yesterday that our signings since Lange arrived weren't good enough and asking me if I thought we'd done better in the market than teams like Leicester, Brentford and Brighton.
Ah, you're a gem Paul.
Whether I think they're good signings or not, obvious over priced ones or not (that didn't take a recruitment genius to find) or that players haven't been signed with a clear pan or not, I still think the depth of an expensively assemble squad including Martinez, Digne, Carlos, Mings, Cash, Kamara (who I rate very highly), Ramsey, Buendia, Coutinho, Ings and Watkins should be better than most below the top 6-7.
That doesn't mean I think we couldn't have done somewhat better with a more astute recruitment team.
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My expectations are currently that we will finish between eleventh and fifteenth, get knocked out of the League Cup by Man U and get knocked out of the FA Cup in the Third Round by Man U/Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/Tottenham.
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We continue to underwhelm.
Frustrating though as Wolves and Leicester look locked in for nice long relegation battles. West Ham are improving but they are way off last two seasons.
Those have been top half regulars in last three years so there is void now. Brighton in mix but they could well drop off with the new manager so there's a really good opportunity to finish 8th which makes us just letting Gerrard wreak more damage game after game all the more bemusing.
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We continue to underwhelm.
Frustrating though as Wolves and Leicester look locked in for nice long relegation battles. West Ham are improving but they are way off last two seasons.
Those have been top half regulars in last three years so there is void now. Brighton in mix but they could well drop off with the new manager so there's a really good opportunity to finish 8th which makes us just letting Gerrard wreak more damage game after game all the more bemusing.
I don't think we'll finish above any of those teams if we carry on as we are
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It depends how soon Gerrard fucks off. But I'd imagine if he's here til the World Cup that we'll be 13th/14th and if we get a decent replacement 9th/10th. If he's allowed to stay longer.... shudder to think.
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I said loads of times I'd be dissapointed with anything below 8th the season because of the strength of our squad. I still think man for man it is better than the squads of most other middling teams, I just hadn't accounted for how truly shit our coaching would be.
I'll take 10th now.
I agree but I'm surprised to see you say this since you were claiming yesterday that our signings since Lange arrived weren't good enough and asking me if I thought we'd done better in the market than teams like Leicester, Brentford and Brighton.
Ah, you're a gem Paul.
Whether I think they're good signings or not, obvious over priced ones or not (that didn't take a recruitment genius to find) or that players haven't been signed with a clear pan or not, I still think the depth of an expensively assemble squad including Martinez, Digne, Carlos, Mings, Cash, Kamara (who I rate very highly), Ramsey, Buendia, Coutinho, Ings and Watkins should be better than most below the top 6-7.
That doesn't mean I think we couldn't have done somewhat better with a more astute recruitment team.
I wish I had any idea what you expect from the recruitment team because right now it feels like the only thing that would satisify you is if we sign a complete unknown from an obscure league who comes in and is a sensation within weeks. Every other type of signing (from a fantastic free transfer to a very cheap deal on one of the world most expensive ever players to a whole bunch of very exciting teenagers) just doesn't seem enough to convince you that he's doing exactly the job he's employed for.
So what exactly has he done wrong, how are you certain it's his fault and what hasn't he done that makes you think he deserves to be sacked?
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So what exactly has he done wrong, how are you certain it's his fault and what hasn't he done that makes you think he deserves to be sacked?
Well put is this way I think our only good senior signings under him are:
Martinez (hardley a hidden gem)
Cash
Watkins (despite my reservations and obviously a Smith not Lange signing)
Buendia (many would disagree but I like him - again not a Lange discovery)
Kamara
Carlos (maybe)
Whereas our poor / misfit signings include:
Traore
Sanson
Barkley
Bailey
Digne (over priced for me)
Ings (good player but no plan to use him)
Coutinho (Gerrards signing I admit but didn't feel essential after a modest trial period)
Dendoncker
So what has he done right? Kamara and maybe Carlos? Two established internationals. Nice one Johan.
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Carlos has never played for Brazil.
Yours,
A. Pedant
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Carlos has never played for Brazil.
Yours,
A. Pedant
Fucks sake, a time consuming, researched and crafted post and you destroy it with simple facts?
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So what exactly has he done wrong, how are you certain it's his fault and what hasn't he done that makes you think he deserves to be sacked?
Well put is this way I think our only good senior signings under him are:
Martinez (hardley a hidden gem)
Cash
Watkins (despite my reservations and obviously a Smith not Lange signing)
Buendia (many would disagree but I like him - again not a Lange discovery)
Kamara
Carlos (maybe)
Whereas our poor / misfit signings include:
Traore
Sanson
Barkley
Bailey
Digne (over priced for me)
Ings (good player but no plan to use him)
Coutinho (Gerrards signing I admit but didn't feel essential after a modest trial period)
Dendoncker
So what has he done right? Kamara and maybe Carlos? Two established internationals. Nice one Johan.
Coutinho and Traore have done as much as Buendia has for us so there's a massive element of personal bias there.
Ings is not on Lange, the biggest problem for him has always been that we haven't had any idea how to use him. I'd say the same for Bailey as well both are good players but our tactics have completely nullified them. Try not to forget Bailey looked very exciting in his brief appearances under Smith when we actually played with wingers and knew how to use them.
Digne was maybe overpriced but, given we wanted fullbacks to be our main attacking threat out wide, he was an upgrade on Targett for that job. Not his fault that the tactic he was signed to play under has failed badly.
Dendoncker has played about half an hour for us so that one feels premature, that said I do think he was signed because we got bullied by palace and west ham and Gerrard decided we need a big unit in midfield to compete with those teams.
Sanson is just weird because he's looked good everytime he's played but just hasn't been given much time, I don't think anyone can really judge him because we're clearly missing something to explain why Smith and Gerrard have both sidelined him.
Barkley was shit, no arguments, but I get the feeling that was a Smith signing that was done to convince Grealish to sign the new deal. Not sure why you included him though when you left out other loans.
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I know, Buendia is a personal indulgence because I like him. Many would have him in the miss coulumn.
The overarching point is you asked me what he has done wrong, and finding excuses and yeah buts for virtually all his signings means he hasn't done much right.
Now look at Brentford, Brighton and Leicester's recruitments strategy and compare and contrast. (I won't be doing this as I can't be arsed, but I suspect they have somewhat more hits than us). I appreciate they have had better managers to develop the players, but even so you must be able to see a lack of imagination in our senior player signings?
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I know, Buendia is a personal indulgence because I like him. Many would have him in the miss coulumn.
The overarching point is you asked me what he has done wrong, and finding excuses and yeah buts for virtually all his signings means he hasn't done much right.
Now look at Brentford, Brighton and Leicester's recruitments strategy and compare and contrast. (I won't be doing this as I can't be arsed, but I suspect they have somewhat more hits than us). I appreciate they have had better managers to develop the players, but even so you must be able to see a lack of imagination in our senior player signings?
They're not excuses, they're pointing out that the success or failure of a signing isn't purely on the recruitment team. If the coaching is failing, which you've already said you agree with, then recruitment will inevitably look worse than it is. On that basis writing off players who've been with us for a few weeks or who shown flashes of quality but been inconsistent is just wrong. That were outright bad signings I think Barkley is the only one with Sanson the only other that has a strong argument to include.
Traore is the one I really don't like seeing there, 7 goal and 7 assists in 36 games (a fair few of which were very short cameos) isn't bad for a winger, I know he was inconsistent, frustrating and didn't do enough in defence but I'd still be very happy to have those sort of numbers from 2 wingers/10s right now.
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So what exactly has he done wrong, how are you certain it's his fault and what hasn't he done that makes you think he deserves to be sacked?
Well put is this way I think our only good senior signings under him are:
Martinez (hardley a hidden gem)
Cash
Watkins (despite my reservations and obviously a Smith not Lange signing)
Buendia (many would disagree but I like him - again not a Lange discovery)
Kamara
Carlos (maybe)
Whereas our poor / misfit signings include:
Traore
Sanson
Barkley
Bailey
Digne (over priced for me)
Ings (good player but no plan to use him)
Coutinho (Gerrards signing I admit but didn't feel essential after a modest trial period)
Dendoncker
So what has he done right? Kamara and maybe Carlos? Two established internationals. Nice one Johan.
Coutinho and Traore have done as much as Buendia has for us so there's a massive element of personal bias there.
Ings is not on Lange, the biggest problem for him has always been that we haven't had any idea how to use him. I'd say the same for Bailey as well both are good players but our tactics have completely nullified them. Try not to forget Bailey looked very exciting in his brief appearances under Smith when we actually played with wingers and knew how to use them.
Digne was maybe overpriced but, given we wanted fullbacks to be our main attacking threat out wide, he was an upgrade on Targett for that job. Not his fault that the tactic he was signed to play under has failed badly.
Dendoncker has played about half an hour for us so that one feels premature, that said I do think he was signed because we got bullied by palace and west ham and Gerrard decided we need a big unit in midfield to compete with those teams.
Sanson is just weird because he's looked good everytime he's played but just hasn't been given much time, I don't think anyone can really judge him because we're clearly missing something to explain why Smith and Gerrard have both sidelined him.
Barkley was shit, no arguments, but I get the feeling that was a Smith signing that was done to convince Grealish to sign the new deal. Not sure why you included him though when you left out other loans.
Disagree
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Try not to forget Bailey looked very exciting in his brief appearances under Smith when we actually played with wingers and knew how to use them.
"Try not to forget" - bloody hell. He made three sub appearances of half an hour so before injuring himself in the Everton game, during which time he scored once. He was then mostly terrible against Arsenal, West Ham and Southampton. He was especially bad against Southampton. Whilst not being particularly scientific of course, he got a score of 3.32 in that match, the lowest of any Villa player. Of the 6 games he featured in under Smith, we lost 5 of them, and didn't start with any wingers at all in two of them. But yeah, he was playing when he played with wingers and knew what to do with them.
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Try not to forget Bailey looked very exciting in his brief appearances under Smith when we actually played with wingers and knew how to use them.
"Try not to forget" - bloody hell. He made three sub appearances of half an hour so before injuring himself in the Everton game, during which time he scored once. He was then mostly terrible against Arsenal, West Ham and Southampton. He was especially bad against Southampton. Whilst not being particularly scientific of course, he got a score of 3.32 in that match, the lowest of any Villa player. Of the 6 games he featured in under Smith, we lost 5 of them, and didn't start with any wingers at all in two of them. But yeah, he was playing when he played with wingers and knew what to do with them.
I thought he looked excellent when he came on. Loved that bit when he chased back in our area, won the ball, then megged their player to bring it out of defence. Given a proper run think he'll be fantastic.
This you? There's about a hundred post on his thread from after that Everton game where we thought he was going to be a star for us but he just couldn't stay fit. By the time he was actually fit enough to play a meaningful part we'd shifted style to the shit that we're seeing now which has killed the form of every single attacking player at the club.
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Coutinho and Traore have done as much as Buendia has for us so there's a massive element of personal bias there.
Disagree
Again personal bias:
Coutinho: 5 goals and 3 assists in 29 games (so roughly 1 goal involvement every 4 games)
Buendia: 5 goals and 7 assists in 47 games (so roughly 1 goal involvement every 4 games)
Traore: 8 goals and 7 assists in 48 games (so roughly 1 goal involvement every 3 games)
What part of what i said was wrong?
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Fucking hell Paul, please stop. He played well in the Everton game, when he was on for a whole 20 minutes. The point was we were either playing with one winger, (mainly El Ghazi or cameos from Bailey) or none at all, as in when Smith was experimenting with 5-3-2 and 4-4-2. As pointed, out, we lost all but one of the games so your comment doesn't stand up at all.
Shall I go and dredge up all of your posts praising Gerrard after we won a game, such as the Leeds and Southampton games where we battered two teams using more or less the same system and players we have now, both times when we could have scored 8 or 9?
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Fucking hell Paul, please stop. He played well in the Everton game, when he was on for a whole 20 minutes. The point was we were either playing with one winger, (mainly El Ghazi or cameos from Bailey) or none at all, as in when Smith was experimenting with 5-3-2 and 4-4-2.
Shall I go and dredge up all of your posts praising Gerrard after we won a game, such as the Leeds and Southampton games where we battered two teams using more or less the same system and players we have now, both times when we could have cored 8 or 9?
You can, and I accept they probably exist, I'm not the one rewriting history. We had a manager who played with wingers, Bailey played for an equivalent of 3 games over 6 games (as you say) under him and had a goal and 2 assists. In 21 games since, under a manager who doesn't like wingers, he's managed 2 goals and 1 assist. If you can't see how the change of manager has had an impact then I can't help you.
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Fucking hell Paul, please stop. He played well in the Everton game, when he was on for a whole 20 minutes. The point was we were either playing with one winger, (mainly El Ghazi or cameos from Bailey) or none at all, as in when Smith was experimenting with 5-3-2 and 4-4-2.
Shall I go and dredge up all of your posts praising Gerrard after we won a game, such as the Leeds and Southampton games where we battered two teams using more or less the same system and players we have now, both times when we could have cored 8 or 9?
You can, and I accept they probably exist, I'm not the one rewriting history. We had a manager who played with wingers, Bailey played for an equivalent of 3 games over 6 games (as you say) under him and had a goal and 2 assists. In 21 games since, under a manager who doesn't like wingers, he's managed 2 goals and 1 assist. If you can't see how the change of manager has had an impact then I can't help you.
When we had Grealish we played with one other winger, either El Ghazi, Trez or Traore. When Grealish left, Smith only ever played with one winger at most, and sometimes none. Bailey has played most games under Gerrard when he's been fit. If you're trying to extrapolate from 6 games how Bailey would have done under Smith had he stayed , then you don't understand statistics very well, and I can't help you.
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Fucking hell Paul, please stop. He played well in the Everton game, when he was on for a whole 20 minutes. The point was we were either playing with one winger, (mainly El Ghazi or cameos from Bailey) or none at all, as in when Smith was experimenting with 5-3-2 and 4-4-2.
Shall I go and dredge up all of your posts praising Gerrard after we won a game, such as the Leeds and Southampton games where we battered two teams using more or less the same system and players we have now, both times when we could have cored 8 or 9?
You can, and I accept they probably exist, I'm not the one rewriting history. We had a manager who played with wingers, Bailey played for an equivalent of 3 games over 6 games (as you say) under him and had a goal and 2 assists. In 21 games since, under a manager who doesn't like wingers, he's managed 2 goals and 1 assist. If you can't see how the change of manager has had an impact then I can't help you.
When we had Grealish we played with one other winger, either El Ghazi, Trez or Traore. When Grealish left, Smith only ever played with one winger at most, and sometimes none. Bailey has played most games under Gerrard when he's been fit. If you're trying to extrapolate from 6 games how Bailey would have done under Smith had he stayed , then you don't understand statistics very well, and I can't help you.
I think you should learn the difference betwene data and analysis before you start that shit. I gave data, that's immutable and doesn't give a fuck if you like it or not. I never extrapolated anything because on such a small data set the sdiff would be far too high for any analysis to be meaningful (which is why I gave data only). Smith plays with wingers most of the time and clearly appreciates how to use them having got generally decent performances out of a number of wide players whilst managing us.
I couldn't give the slightest shit what our formation was in the games Bailey played under him, his assists and goal came from us making the pitch wide and creating space in those channels for our players. I also don't see the point in you excluding Grealish from being a winger when that was quite clearly the role that he played for us under smith for all but the first 9-10 games in our first season back. Just because a player drifts out of position it doesn't change what they're being played as or how they're being used within the team.
Under Gerrard we slow the ball down in midfield and push it wide when the fullbacks are high up the pitch meaning wingers/wide forwards have a lot less space to work in and the result is that every single attacking player in our squad has been less effective in those channels.
I could prove it with stats but I really can't be arsed because it's fucking obvious to anyone who's watched us play in the last year.
What I will predict is that in a team which gets the ball to wide players in space and/or with 1 defender to beat to get into a dangerous area Bailey, Buendia and Countinho will all look like better players than they do now, I would also predict that, in that team, Watkins and Ings would be much more effective. The vast majority of our attacking problems come from us moving the ball very slowly and doing too much of our work 10yards too deep.
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Your analysis of our attacking problems are spot on, our attacks nearly allways occur having allowed the opposition to become set.
We are too slow, not set up to create overloads or to get players the wrong side of defenders. As well as being ineffective.
It’s also excruciatingly dull.
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Your analysis of our attacking problems are spot on, our attacks nearly allways occur having allowed the opposition to become set.
We are too slow, not set up to create overloads or to get players the wrong side of defenders. As well as being ineffective.
It’s also excruciatingly dull.
I don't think it takes much analysis to see that, we just don't force defenders to commit to anything so there's just no space for us to play in. Gerrard being oblivious to it, and therefore doing fuck all to try to change it, is why I flipped from thinking he deserved at last until the world cup to deciding that we're just wasting fixtures on him at this point.
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Where are we now?
I would take survival and a decent Manager right now, get the appointment wrong and we are in trouble.
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Renewed optimization with Emery in charge.
Theres a chance for a domestic cup win!
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There's no reason we can't finish top half. We've got Kamara due back hopefully not too long after the World Cup, and the January window to bring a player or two in. If Emery can get Coutinho firing again, 8th could be a possibility.
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7th and a cup.
Emery can do it.
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Top half at the very least then much higher next season. We're done with pissing about hoping to "kick on from eighth-tenth".
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Top half at the very least then much higher next season. We're done with pissing about hoping to "kick on from eighth-tenth".
Exactly. The manager's in place, we've the makings of a good squad, just needs a bit more quality. If it doesn't work after all that I give up.
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Top half at the very least then much higher next season. We're done with pissing about hoping to "kick on from eighth-tenth".
Exactly. The manager's in place, we've the makings of a good squad, just needs a bit more quality. If it doesn't work after all that I give up.
Yeah - and if we could win a cup then so much the better
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He's good in cups. I just wish the Utd game came a bit later, to give him more time to settle in and get us on his page. I'm hoping we have a decent cup run in the LC or FC. Where we've come up short in our last four finals, I'm hoping he'd be able to make a difference. Maybe it's very difficult to make a difference against a Man City of course, but if someone else can sort those fuckers out, I'd hope we'd be able to do anyone else over in the last stages.
In the league I'll settle for top 10. I think we're some ways off top 8, not just down to our start, but we need time to get his ideas in action.
My biggest expectation/hope, is that he can get Coutinho firing.
I think he'll get the best out of Emi and Bailey. If all three click, and there would undoubtedly be some rotation as not all three would play (you'd assume). I'd expect McGinn to improve and JJ too. Sanson might just be a surprise package.
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Top half at the very least then much higher next season. We're done with pissing about hoping to "kick on from eighth-tenth".
Exactly. The manager's in place, we've the makings of a good squad, just needs a bit more quality. If it doesn't work after all that I give up.
Yeah - and if we could win a cup then so much the better
Win cups is all this marvellous mofo does! Enjoy!
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Have now risen to top 10 but expect nothing and hope for everything
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So the bookmakers still have us to finish 13th on 43 points. They have Palace 3 points better in 10th (Brentford and Fulham on 44). Catching West Ham on 49 and Brighton on 51 look like big projected jumps from where we currently are.
The biggest disappointment for me is that we were projected to finish 9th at the start of this season (51 points) and last season (53 points) and we have spent the first half of both seasons in reverse.
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As it stand 5 points separates 8th place from 17th, I don’t think it is beyond us to get towards the top of that group. I would expect Liverpool to improve and Fulham to drop back a little so I think we should, while recognising the challenge, set our ambition for 8th.
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Think we can still make top ten, and a good run in both cups. Icing on the cake would be winning one of the cups, which is always possible.
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A cup double would suffice for this season. Next year, he can focus on winning us the Wafer, and finishing 7th in the league.