Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Ger Regan on January 10, 2022, 09:53:49 PM
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What to say, very poor refereeing, some really good play, but also some dross.
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An error strewn and disjointed performance against an equally abysmal Man U
Martinez 7
Targett 4
Mings 4
Konsa 4
Cash 5
Luis 3
McGuinn 3
Buendia 5
Ramsey4
Watkins 4
Ings 4
Gerrard 4
VAR Punch in the face.
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How fucking hard did they work to disallow that ings goal, cheating ******
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Corrupt. That is all.
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Cheated.
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Tell me this game isn’t bent.
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One day a player or a manager HAS to call it what it is... cheating! It's match fixing but nobody will because the fa will fine them and throw a 9 plus match ban at whoever do. We were robbed by poor officiating and var.
End of story
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Cheated. Again. It’s at times like this I wonder whether the manager should just take the players off the pitch midway through the game, take the 3-0 loss and save the legs of the players because there is zero point in playing.
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Mystified how Sanson didn't get on.
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Death, taxes, those establishment cnuts.
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Most our players are nearly good enough, and we don't appear to be in the market for signing any referees, which is why we were never getting anything from this.
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Football isn't a sport anymore. It's a pantomime.
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So close to being a decent side but still the final ball lacking, still the misplaced passes and still the officials desperate for a Man U victory.
I can just about accept the VAR decision because it was stupid of Ramsey, but how did Luke Shaw stay on the pitch?
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4 minutes to make a call. Clear and obvious hahaha
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It happens too often for me.
We don't get decisions against United so get ready for Saturday because it will happen again.
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So close to being a decent side but still the final ball lacking, still the misplaced passes and still the officials desperate for a Man U victory.
I can just about accept the VAR decision because it was stupid of Ramsey, but how did Luke Shaw stay on the pitch?
How is stupid of Ramsey? He's allowed to stand still isn't he?
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Corrupt. That is all.
Yep. Nothing else to say.
Filthy cheating bastards.
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If a referee and VAR team need three minutes and thirty-six seconds to disallow a goal, perhaps it shouldn't be disallowed?
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Awful, AWFUL refereeing AGAIN. Here we go, Gary and co explaining some obscure law of the fucking game that means it's not a goal. They looked at every single fucking chance to disallow that perfect good goal. I knew when it went in that they'd disallow it. Fuck off.
That aside, we miss far, far too many chances to score and as much as I love Watkins, he hits the fucking crossbar more times than any other striker I've ever seen, by a mile. It is so frustrating and we lose games too often because of it.
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You can’t play against 11 and the officials and VAR. It’s one thing to lose, it’s another to KEEP losing to poor referring and VAR decisions, time and time again against the SAME FUCKING TEAM.
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They did everything they could to make sure our goal didn't stand.. seems to becoming a weekly occurrence. Completely over-analyze the entire play to find something, anything to have it overturned. "Clear and obvious" we're told but that only applies to a select few clubs.
Thought it was quite comical how a bloodied Konsa isn't even afforded the decency of VAR. On you go little peasants - stop complaining.. we are not worthy.
I thought we put in a good enough performance to advance today.
Fuck off to the rest of 'em though.. the manc weasels hardly even bothered turning up today and the FA told Oliver what they needed tonight, and they got it. Fuckery of the highest order. No consequences for any except Villa though, typical.
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W*nk ref
W*nk decision for Ings goal
How the fcuk did Shaw stay on the pitch?
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We were sloppy at times, sublime at others. There's a team in there somewhere, and a good one too.
Ultimately beaten by dodgy officiating.
If I ever see Michael Oliver's annoying shiny face again, it'll be six billion years too soon.
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All so predictable. I’ve never seen a referee and his side show work so hard to disallow a goal.
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Another adaptation of the rules open to subjective interpretation we've learnt about.
So now when you're defending a free kick or when an opposition player stands in an offside position send a player to run into them - free kick everytime now.
Fuck Michael Oliver, Fuck VAR.
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Thing is the ref wasn’t great, but we need to be more clinical. We waste too many good chances.
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If a referee and VAR team need three minutes and thirty-six seconds to disallow a goal, perhaps it shouldn't be disallowed?
And mostly importantly of all, perhaps it isn't clear and obvious if it took that long because Oliver gave the goal.
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Thought Gerrard had a shocker with his use of bench. Subs when they did come in were far too late. Continuing to try Watkins/Ings together will cost us results. Really disappointing result against a frankly dreadful Man United. Joke of a decision to do us out of a goal obviously.
Martinez 7, Cash 6, Konsa 7, Mings 6, Targett 6, Luiz 7, McGinn 6, Ramsey 6, Ings 5, Watkins 6, Buendia 6.
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I thought it was a good performance and you can see we are very much a work in progress. Looking forward to seeing how we strengthen.
Low points - Luiz was poor, so so sloppy in possession and caught standing around far too often. Taggart repeatedly giving the ball away. Cash not having his best night.
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So close to being a decent side but still the final ball lacking, still the misplaced passes and still the officials desperate for a Man U victory.
I can just about accept the VAR decision because it was stupid of Ramsey, but how did Luke Shaw stay on the pitch?
How is stupid of Ramsey? He's allowed to stand still isn't he?
Cavani had no intention of getting back to defend he just ran into Ramsey.
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So close to being a decent side but still the final ball lacking, still the misplaced passes and still the officials desperate for a Man U victory.
I can just about accept the VAR decision because it was stupid of Ramsey, but how did Luke Shaw stay on the pitch?
How is stupid of Ramsey? He's allowed to stand still isn't he?
Exactly, he's under no obligation to get out of the way. I'm really keen to see them explain that decision, given it was RIGHT in front of the ref and he didn't blow for anything. They did everything they possibly could to avoid giving it. Having spent two minutes deciding Watkins didn't touch it so it wasn't off-side, they went off to the offence that the ref ignored in real-time. Fuming, again.
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Mystified how Sanson didn't get on.
Poor decision, we were calling out for a bit of control in midfield. McGinn and Ramsey kept taking wrong options.
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Looks like we'll back to endless run of injustice v them in next decade given the way Oliver reffed that.
At least the players will be bang up for it on Saturday. Get Coutinho involved and we will beat them based on how they played tonight.
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VAR should not be used in a competition if only certain grounds can use it. Should be across the board or not at all.
Having said that, we can only blame ourselves for that. As poor a United team as I've seen, and we've not been good enough.
3 defeats on the spin now.
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Lineker trying to justify the VAR decision. No VAR at other games this round of the Cup but United get through because of it. Is that fair or proper?
Blatant cheating and we've been stitched up yet again at Old Trafford. I thought we gave a good account of ourselves at times but are a very in and out side with some good quality interspersed with absolute dirge. The dirge for me is the likes of Luiz and Targett, Ings at times, El Ghazi. I will be glad when the transfer window is done and we have three or four new players in so those mentioned warm the bench or bugger off elsewhere. I love my football but hate cheating and we have to call this for what it is. Lovely goal from them. Shocking decision to disallow the Villa goal, when we were well on top and there was only one winner had the goal have counted.
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Need to focus the anger and make sure we pay them back in spades on Saturday. Let's fucking hammer them.
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Cavali knew what he was doing.
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Can't wait until we buy our way into the top four and these decisions are then given in our favour.
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If a referee and VAR team need three minutes and thirty-six seconds to disallow a goal, perhaps it shouldn't be disallowed?
And mostly importantly of all, perhaps it isn't clear and obvious if it took that long because Oliver gave the goal.
He was literally standing a foot off of cavani's shoulder as well.
It's incompetency one way or the other.
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What an absolute crock.
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If blocking a players run is a foul then goals scored from EVERY CORNER should be disallowed as there is nothing but constant blocking of players every single time
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Cavali knew what he was doing.
100%
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How we didn’t win I’ll never know, completely played them off the park.
We cannot play Ings and Ollie together though. Hate VAR, hate Manure, fancy us to really batter them on Saturday. Very poor Manure side.
I really don’t think we are far off being a very decent side.
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I thought we played very very well overall. The ref was just abysmal (how may fouls did Shaw commit before he was finally booked) and the var decision was just outrageous. Where do you start with that?
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Started watching mid-way through the 1st half. Lots of chances for both teams (Ollie unlucky). Villa totally dominated 2nd half.
6 mins of added time when it took 5 mins for f-cling var...how?
If you take that length of time to review a goal then you're not looking for clear and obvious you're looking for a reason to cancel the goal no matter how slight.
70 mins it took to book Shaw...ridiculous. The geezer wouldn't look out of place working the doors of nightclubs in manshitster.
McTominay motm how? Did the guy touch the ball in the 2nd half? Sh-t decision.
Manure are a sh-t team...they are awful!
Another trophyless year and it's only the 10th Jan! This needs remedying in 2023.
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What game were you watching….?! Yes we were robbed. But bar about 10mins in the first half we battered them for the whole match. Yes there were some misplaced passes but there was a lot of cb good football.
(Forgot to quote. Replying to earlier poster who gave everyone 4 out of 10 basically)
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Fuck off Utd. The whole rotten shitting, cheating bunch of assholes. A Europa League club that still gets treated to most of the debatable decisions. I'm surprised they didn't get there token penalty today too. Shit club, shit fans, with the shittest side they've had in decades. Just...fuck off. I'd rather lose to City.
When they drop the officials off home from the team bus, I hope the fucking bus is still moving.
We played well. Lets twat them at the weekend and laugh when Boro knock them out. And if we've got any sense we'll unplug every VAR monitor in the ground on Saturday. Because regardless of anything, that decision took almost four minutes, which completely ground the game to a halt, took out all the momentum we had at that point. Stupid, pointless, shithouse, rigged technology. Scrap it. It's ruining the game, particularly as anything remotely borderline (this actually wasn't, it was a shite decision) gets given to the Super League 6 (only two of whom are actually decent at the moment) anyway.
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Does El Ghazi do anything else except shoot when he gets the ball on the edge of the box. He must have more goals for Villa than assists.
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The only infringement in our non goal was Cavani for blatant gamesmanship and should have been booked
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I said to my Son before the game that we wouldn't be allowed to win. It fucking stinks.
We'll batter the bastards on Saturday.
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Just seen the BBC match report who say we only had 2 shots on target, and 4 in total? That's not right, surely? Off the top of my head I can think of Buendia's shot, mcginn and Cash all drawing saves from De Gea? Plus Wakins off the bar and El Ghazi at the end - and I'm sure there were others I can't remember now as I'm still suffering the red mist...
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They spent about a minute and 4 replays to try and rule it out for offside from Konsas header.
Then they spent about a minute and 4 replays trying to rule it out for Watkins touching it on the way.
Then they spent about a minute and 4 replays trying to rule it out for an Ings handball.
You could feel the desperation.
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Let’s face it. We all knew - not feared or suspected, knew - that Man United would get the benefit of a game changing wrong decision during tonight’s match even before a ball was kicked.
If that had been at the other end you know VAR wouldn’t even have looked at it.
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We were definitely cheated tonight they really didn't want us to win I hope we smash them on Saturday.
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I said to my mate in the pub earlier, I don't mind getting beaten as long as it's fair.
Fat chance.
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Just when I thought I couldn't hate them and their sycophants anymore, I am proved wrong again.
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If Konsa's nose was bleeding, why was that not a penalty?
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Yes we wasted chances but it really doesn't matter. When we score they'll simply chalk it off or award them their customary penalty. We only won there last time around because that dickhead missed the penalty.
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They spent about a minute and 4 replays to try and rule it out for offside from Konsas header.
Then they spent about a minute and 4 replays trying to rule it out for Watkins touching it on the way.
Then they spent about a minute and 4 replays trying to rule it out for an Ings handball.
You could feel the desperation.
100% this. Which begs the real question of them all; what was the 'clear and obvious' error that required Oliver's decision to be overturned? Anybody? Anyone?
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They spent about a minute and 4 replays to try and rule it out for offside from Konsas header.
Then they spent about a minute and 4 replays trying to rule it out for Watkins touching it on the way.
Then they spent about a minute and 4 replays trying to rule it out for an Ings handball.
You could feel the desperation.
They kept going until they saw what they needed to see. It was plainly obvious. I think the FA should enforce a review system similar to the NFL and NHL. You pick out and focus what you're reviewing ie. handball, offside, etc.. the entire build up and all of the shenanigans beyond that are inconsequential. It makes it far to easy to breed corruption. Case and point today. Take a look and see where Oliver was standing for our goal.. hard to say he didn't see what happened in real time.
5 out of the SKY 6 into the Fourth Round.. who would want it any other way!
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Imagine if that VAR decision had gone for us; the meltdown it would cause. Goes the other way and it's 'nothing to see here folks' from the media.
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Fucking robbed , again.
Its not even Utd that are cheating bastards, its the whole fucking system.
Shit decision but I wasn't even surprised. It's a bad joke.
I bet a million pounds Utd v Middlesboro is on TV, which is the outcome they wanted.
Hope we murder them next week. And I hope Kiddy win the cup.
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Bit concerned that we've lost 3 on the bounce now and still have to overcome this lot again on the weekend. Playing well but just not taking enough of our chances.
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The BBC only wanted to talk about United. They don't care about any team outside the "big five" plus Tottenham.
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Better side 1st half. Totally dominated 2nd half and fucked by VAR. ******.
Bring on Saturday, we will murder these twats.
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Still fuming. We might not have gone on to win the game, but we were on top at that point and an equaliser would have given us a good chance. Cavani wasn't going to get to that ball, so created a collision and dived. They didn't look at that originally as the commentators could hear the conversation and it was looking at whether it was offside.
Not the first time we have had a VAR decision go against us there when Oliver has been refereeing and it happens too often for it to be a coincidence. It might not have been an edifying spectacle, but part of me wanted to see Steven Gerrard lighting Oliver up after the game and questioning the decision publicly, as I want us to stop just accepting this constant stream of decisions that go against us when we play these teams.
As for us, I thought we were the better side for large parts and played some really good stuff at times, but we are constantly let down by the same few players giving the ball away far too often.
On a wider point - I know it's bitten us tonight so it looks like sour grapes, but how can VAR be used in some games and not others in the same competition? I would personally ditch it for the FA Cup and only consider using it for the semi-finals and final if at all.
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Oh, and 65 years and counting.
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I said to my mate in the pub earlier, I don't mind getting beaten as long as it's fair.
Fat chance.
Our record against Utd is atrocious, but how many games does it come back to this? Decisions that go their way, the refs on their side throughout? It took Oliver long enough to start booking them for their shithousery. It's beyond a joke now. At least one game a season against Utd there's something contentious against us.
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Better side 1st half. Totally dominated 2nd half and fucked by VAR. ******.
Bring on Saturday, we will murder these twats.
Hope Gerrard has them spitting fire at the weekend. I want McGinn to McParland Fernandez.
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The BBC only wanted to talk about United. They don't care about any team outside the "big five" plus Tottenham.
Remind where the BBC is based again?
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How we didn’t win I’ll never know, completely played them off the park.
We cannot play Ings and Ollie together though. Hate VAR, hate Manure, fancy us to really batter them on Saturday. Very poor Manure side.
I really don’t think we are far off being a very decent side.
Bang on.
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We lost to a joke of a decision, no question we were the better side, now lets give them a hammering on Saturday.
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Oliver was poor but I think the VAR call is systemic as much as anything. Once the referee gets summoned over to the monitor there’s an expectation that the decision will change. The stats on that would be interesting.
Ultimately we need to be more efficient at taking our chances. Even with that decision we should have won that game.
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Oh, and 65 years and counting.
This.I don't think I'm going to see number 8
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Anybody surprised? Entirely predictable, it's not a level playing field when you play certain clubs, the whole thing reeks of corruption and bias, now Gerrard has experienced the kind of shit we have to put up with against these and his former club to name but two.Shit aint it Steve? Fuck the FA & Premier league.
C@nts
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Oliver was poor but I think the VAR call is systemic as much as anything. Once the referee gets summoned over to the monitor there’s an expectation that the decision will change. The stats on that would be interesting.
Ultimately we need to be more efficient at taking our chances. Even with that decision we should have won that game.
If the ref is called over to the monitor it means he can put the responsibility (and blame) on VAR for the decision. This is one of the biggest problems of the current system.
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I said to my mate in the pub earlier, I don't mind getting beaten as long as it's fair.
Fat chance.
Our record against Utd is atrocious, but how many games does it come back to this? Decisions that go their way, the refs on their side throughout? It took Oliver long enough to start booking them for their shithousery. It's beyond a joke now. At least one game a season against Utd there's something contentious against us.
Don't forget last season when Pogba collapsed in the air when Luiz breathed on him. And we had Ollie sent off when he was actually tripped in the penalty area.
I think at least now we know we can give them a game and even outplay them in midfield area (whereas before it was just keeping the score down to 2-0 and it was o.k effort).
Will make Saturday lively at least. Gerrard won't take this defeat easily so we'll be fired up with hopefully two new signings in the mix to give us a fresher look.
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What’s the fucking point. How many games in a row have “they” intervened to stop us against Man Utd? Even our 1-0 win there earlier this season there was a soft penalty in injury time.
On our team, I’m staggered to see Dougie getting 3s and 4s - he was a bit clumsy in the first half but was immense second half, totally ran the game. Ramsey was great too.
Targett had a shocker. McGinn and Cash sloppy. Subs were poor, verging on bizarre.
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it should have stood but we know the game there
They were not very good and we were not good enough, they had twice as many attempts on goal as us, sorry but Luiz was never a 7, and my heart does not beat faster when El Ghazi comes on as a sub
Lets beat the fuckers at a full Villa Park that is bouncing.
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I thought Targett was our poorest player today and can see why we're looking to upgrade on him.
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Doesn't make any different If Canvani isn't getting to the ball,it shows he being blocked,we have got to learn quickly, like them fouling, instead of discussing it with the referees and opposition players take the free kick quickly
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If it took 3:36 for the VAR check, and there was treatment for Konsa, and one of theirs, and with all the subs (that are supposed to be 30 seconds each I thought) then how does 6 minutes dead cover it?
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I cannot believe Konsa's bloody nose wasn't looked at by VAR, it's for sure if it was them scumbags it would have been, Shaws arm was raised and he had a look at Konsa before he did it, yet, they took an enormous amount of time over the Ings goal, first was the ball touched before Ings bundled it over the line, when that failed they looked at obstruction, Oliver had given the goal and it should have stood. We were the better team but midfield gave the ball up too easy, Luiz the main culprit, the Ings Watkins experiment has to be shelved.
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Anybody surprised? Entirely predictable, it's not a level playing field when you play certain clubs, the whole thing reeks of corruption and bias, now Gerrard has experienced the kind of shit we have to put up with against these and his former club to name but two.Shit aint it Steve? Fuck the FA & Premier league.
C@nts
It’s a poor decision but let’s not descend down a rabbit hole and make it seem like we couldn’t effect the game. We conceded a really poor goal and we had plenty of other opportunities to equalise and win the game. We need to affect those elements more.
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Does El Ghazi do anything else except shoot when he gets the ball on the edge of the box. He must have more goals for Villa than assists.
I have always thought that El Ghazi doesn't get the chances that he deserves but that shot was horrendous.
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If it took 3:36 for the VAR check, and there was treatment for Konsa, and one of theirs, and with all the subs (that are supposed to be 30 seconds each I thought) then how does 6 minutes dead cover it?
because Manchester United were clinging to a 1-0 lead?
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What’s the fucking point. How many games in a row have “they” intervened to stop us against Man Utd? Even our 1-0 win there earlier this season there was a soft penalty in injury time.
On our team, I’m staggered to see Dougie getting 3s and 4s - he was a bit clumsy in the first half but was immense second half, totally ran the game. Ramsey was great too.
Targett had a shocker. McGinn and Cash sloppy. Subs were poor, verging on bizarre.
Big Luiz fan but I think he's been average for a while now, does some good stuff and then gives it away in sloppy fashion.
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Ming's or Konsoa getting blamed for the there goal, have a look again, Douglas Luiz let him run
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Oliver was poor but I think the VAR call is systemic as much as anything. Once the referee gets summoned over to the monitor there’s an expectation that the decision will change. The stats on that would be interesting.
Ultimately we need to be more efficient at taking our chances. Even with that decision we should have won that game.
If the ref is called over to the monitor it means he can put the responsibility (and blame) on VAR for the decision. This is one of the biggest problems of the current system.
I think it’s a bit of both - I think it pressurises the referees too. Ultimately leads to the same decision, which is the problem.
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VAR just went through the process until it found a reason to not give the goal.
How often does that happen?
I can't remember any incidents its normally just one.
We had 3.
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Oliver was poor but I think the VAR call is systemic as much as anything. Once the referee gets summoned over to the monitor there’s an expectation that the decision will change. The stats on that would be interesting.
Ultimately we need to be more efficient at taking our chances. Even with that decision we should have won that game.
If the ref is called over to the monitor it means he can put the responsibility (and blame) on VAR for the decision. This is one of the biggest problems of the current system.
No, it's still the ref's decision. Calls to go to the monitor are for cases where VAR think the ref has missed something, or think he's made a mistake. VAR can only make calls on matters of fact, like ball over the line, or player offside. For matters of opinion, or "interpretation" of the laws, the ref's decision is still final - so the ref could visit the monitor, watch a replay and still go "nah, I'm happy with my decision", but they never do because they know VAR is convinced they've made a mistake by that point.
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What game were you watching….?! Yes we were robbed. But bar about 10mins in the first half we battered them for the whole match. Yes there were some misplaced passes but there was a lot of cb good football.
(Forgot to quote. Replying to earlier poster who gave everyone 4 out of 10 basically)
You beat me to it I saw that post and I really thought he was joking.He gave half the Villa team a 3!! Man U must have all been 2's and 1's on his marking scale. Crazy. I've learned not to put comments on here straight after the game as the blood is sometimes still boiling and comments don't usually stand up to any scrutiny.
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Doesn't make any different If Canvani isn't getting to the ball,it shows he being blocked,we have got to learn quickly, like them fouling, instead of discussing it with the referees and opposition players take the free kick quickly
I'll think you will find it does make a difference is if he getting to ball or not it was explained after the match. He wasn't blocked Ramsey just stood his ground and Cavani ran into him because it was easier to do that than get back.
It doesn't matter what we do if the officials blatantly cheat and that is the only way I can put it, as it was cheating.
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Ming's or Konsoa getting blamed for the there goal, have a look again, Douglas Luiz let him run
Buendia is wandering off too. Should have fell over and pretended he was blocked.
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I would rather be sitting here feeling smug after winning a game where we were totally mullered but somehow managed to sneak a dodgy winner with no lack of plentiful help from officials but...BUT once again it was them fuckers however I thought we were fantastic especially in the second half. At times we made them look a step or two below us but for the lack of a goal. Oh hang we scored at least one perfectly good goal that a ****** at Stockley Park spent 5 minutes looking at to see if he can find any minute remotely tenuous reason to disallow and disallow he did. JUST FUCK OFF.
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Does El Ghazi do anything else except shoot when he gets the ball on the edge of the box. He must have more goals for Villa than assists.
Should never have come on.
Another question mark of SG recent subs.
He was NEVER going to rescue us tonight.
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Thought we generally played well. Mings/Konsa handled most things apart from the goal, midifielders controlled the middle of the park, and the forwards gave them the runaround (just couldn’t hit a barn door with a banjo).
My rage was split between the officials, Luke Shaw and our fullbacks. Specifically Matty Cash, who I thought was bloody terrible yet again. Sloppy in possession and positioning and still failed to find a villa player with a single cross.
Patience has run out with him - I’d get Kesler in there or even recall Guilbert if possible!!
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Yes we wasted chances but it really doesn't matter. When we score they'll simply chalk it off or award them their customary penalty. We only won there last time around because that dickhead missed the penalty.
The previous time we lost in the last minutes to a penalty awarded to a dive by Pogba awarded by guess who.. Michael Fucking Oliver.
And people wonder why I hate these Plastic c**ts so much. Give me Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea.. whoever...even the Rags have my respect more than these tossers. Saturday should be interesting.
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Oliver was poor but I think the VAR call is systemic as much as anything. Once the referee gets summoned over to the monitor there’s an expectation that the decision will change. The stats on that would be interesting.
Ultimately we need to be more efficient at taking our chances. Even with that decision we should have won that game.
If the ref is called over to the monitor it means he can put the responsibility (and blame) on VAR for the decision. This is one of the biggest problems of the current system.
No, it's still the ref's decision. Calls to go to the monitor are for cases where VAR think the ref has missed something, or think he's made a mistake. VAR can only make calls on matters of fact, like ball over the line, or player offside. For matters of opinion, or "interpretation" of the laws, the ref's decision is still final - so the ref could visit the monitor, watch a replay and still go "nah, I'm happy with my decision", but they never do because they know VAR is convinced they've made a mistake by that point.
Yep and that’s the systemic problem. The implication is that if a ref is called to the monitor they’ve made a mistake. The stats of changed decisions would be interesting, because it’s clearly influencing refs and I kind of get it.
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Some things never, ever change. It stinks to high heaven, it really does.
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If they went back any further they'd be dissowing the initial free kick. ******.
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There is no glory in being the plucky underdog and losing there.
There is no solace to be had from knowing that we were the better team but we’re cheated AGAIN by poor officials both on and off the field.
The only way to exorcise this feeling and put it right IS BY BEATING THE CHEATING, CONNIVING ****** ON SATURDAY.
Beat the fuckers fair and square and let the officials and VAR shove it up their collective arses.
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What a crock of shite. Again.
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We attacked them incessantly, played really well and deserved to win. That said, the game showed the following usual failings:
The defence - always got a mistake in it
Targett - not good enough
Final ball - not good enough
Midfield - give the ball away sloppily too often
Watkins - lots of running, not enough composure
Ings - not enough running, plays like an old man
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I said to my Son before the game that we wouldn't be allowed to win. It fucking stinks.
We'll batter the bastards on Saturday.
Only if we are allowed to score at least 3 goals.
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Oliver was poor but I think the VAR call is systemic as much as anything. Once the referee gets summoned over to the monitor there’s an expectation that the decision will change. The stats on that would be interesting.
Ultimately we need to be more efficient at taking our chances. Even with that decision we should have won that game.
If the ref is called over to the monitor it means he can put the responsibility (and blame) on VAR for the decision. This is one of the biggest problems of the current system.
I think it’s a bit of both - I think it pressurises the referees too. Ultimately leads to the same decision, which is the problem.
It leads to the decision that VAR want the ref to make as you say; that's the expectation. But if Oliver sticks with his decision (which he had one view of) he's taking the responsibility for sticking with it based upon that one view.
The real issue here (which has been the case for the last 3 years) is the 'clear and obvious' interpretation. If it's taking over 3 minutes and for checks on multiple issues then it's not a clear and obvious error.
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I thought Targett was our poorest player today and can see why we're looking to upgrade on him.
Played like he was sulking
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Do we know who the ref is on Saturday yet?
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I don't think I've seen VAR actively look for a reason to disallow the goal like that. They spent two minutes checking the offside for the ball across to Ings, then when that was inconclusive, they widened the search for anything else. How on earth is that "clear and obvious"?
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Why do people think that the officials will be any better on Saturday?
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Do we know who the ref is on Saturday yet?
Kevin Friend, with clones of Kevin Friend on VAR, Mark Halsey on one line and Michael Oliver on the other.
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Frustrated but tonight I thought that we battered them in their own theatre of fading dreams. Yes there are things that could have gone better and players that maybe in six months will not be in a Villa shirt but there was so much good stuff on display tonight. It won’t be long before we pick average sides like United off with ease. Refs and VAR aside obviously.
Proud of the Villa tonight!
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What game were you watching….?! Yes we were robbed. But bar about 10mins in the first half we battered them for the whole match. Yes there were some misplaced passes but there was a lot of cb good football.
(Forgot to quote. Replying to earlier poster who gave everyone 4 out of 10 basically)
You beat me to it I saw that post and I really thought he was joking.He gave half the Villa team a 3!! Man U must have all been 2's and 1's on his marking scale. Crazy. I've learned not to put comments on here straight after the game as the blood is sometimes still boiling and comments don't usually stand up to any scrutiny.
Yeah, I’ll go with it was still a bit raw. Thought we played some really decent stuff today so the marks were bonkers. We were occasionally sloppy but it was generally when we were trying to play our way out and just lost concentration or overplayed rather than something particularly poor. I’d rather we at least tried that stuff even if it does give me a heart attack sometimes 🤣.
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We attacked them incessantly, played really well and deserved to win. That said, the game showed the following usual failings:
The defence - always got a mistake in it
Targett - not good enough
Final ball - not good enough
Midfield - give the ball away sloppily too often
Watkins - lots of running, not enough composure
Ings - not enough running, plays like an old man
Yeah I’d agree. We got a ropey decision, but that would only have levelled to game. We conceded a rubbish goal - that’s on us. We also failed to convert a number of other chances - again on us. That’s not to say we didn’t play well, I think we did. But we need to be better at both ends of the pitch and had we been today a ropey ref display wouldn’t have saved them.
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Why do people think that the officials will be any better on Saturday?
They won't.
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If blocking a players run is a foul then goals scored from EVERY CORNER should be disallowed as there is nothing but constant blocking of players every single time
Acid test is if it was other way around and defending player blocked an attacking player some distance away from the ball it should be a penalty but it never is so why disallow the goal?
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I think Ramsey was stupid for their goal. He saw Cavani coming at him and should have turned away to focus on the ball. By looking directly at him it allowed the ref and the Manyoo fanboys at Stockley to make a decision.
Really naive. I also thought we could have made more of some of their challenges and got an extra card or two out of the ref earlier in the game. With Ashley Young in the ref’s ear I’m sure a few more cards were issued.
A decent overall performance but not clinical enough, and we also gave the ball way really cheaply at times. They really were there for the taking tonight.
And the length of some replays meant you missed the live action. Infuriating bloody broadcasting.
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Do we know who the ref is on Saturday yet?
Kevin Friend, with clones of Kevin Friend on VAR, Mark Halsey on one line and Michael Oliver on the other.
I’ve heard Phil Dowd may be dusting his boots off
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Why do people think that the officials will be any better on Saturday?
They won't.
Because I will be there and make sure they do their job.
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Oliver was one of the better refs a few years ago but obviously they have got to him and he is now the ESL official.
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I don't think I've seen VAR actively look for a reason to disallow the goal like that. They spent two minutes checking the offside for the ball across to Ings, then when that was inconclusive, they widened the search for anything else. How on earth is that "clear and obvious"?
It was like rugby union but in a negative sense. Referees often ask the VAR officials ‘is there any reason I cannot award a try?’ Where they are pretty sure they can.
In this case it was ‘is there any reason you can find to not award a goal’ where any excuse was sought.
Its pure bollocks, it has to end.
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I don't think I've seen VAR actively look for a reason to disallow the goal like that. They spent two minutes checking the offside for the ball across to Ings, then when that was inconclusive, they widened the search for anything else. How on earth is that "clear and obvious"?
It's cheating - plain and simple. However, I don't think it has ever been that obvious before. Scary to think how many times its happened over the last 6 or 7 matches against them. Pogba/Luiz, Bruno/Konsa..
Nothing will change because nothere's nothing to see here. Keep right on little Aston Villa, tough luck.
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Doesn't make any different If Canvani isn't getting to the ball,it shows he being blocked,we have got to learn quickly, like them fouling, instead of discussing it with the referees and opposition players take the free kick quickly
I'll think you will find it does make a difference is if he getting to ball or not it was explained after the match. He wasn't blocked Ramsey just stood his ground and Cavani ran into him because it was easier to do that than get back.
It doesn't matter what we do if the officials blatantly cheat and that is the only way I can put it, as it was cheating.
If Ramsey had been onside when the kick was taken, it would have been ok as he is entitled to stand his ground, but he gained an advantage by being offside when the kick was taken. I agree it’s pretty obscure (like the excuse for the Man City goal last season).
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I thought VAR was suposed to be used to stop clear and obvious errors. Not to forensicaly examine every goal to try and find a reason to disallow it? After a that decision it was obvious we were never going to get anything tonight. I thought we dominated the game, especially the second half, against a very poor united team. I couldn't beleive how poor some of their players were, and they still won. There's no justice. Love us to really turn them over at the weekend.
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I don't think I've seen VAR actively look for a reason to disallow the goal like that. They spent two minutes checking the offside for the ball across to Ings, then when that was inconclusive, they widened the search for anything else. How on earth is that "clear and obvious"?
It was like rugby union but in a negative sense. Referees often ask the VAR officials ‘is there any reason I cannot award a try?’ Where they are pretty sure they can.
In this case it was ‘is there any reason you can find to not award a goal’ where any excuse was sought.
Its pure bollocks, it has to end.
Yep and that’s the perception that’s been created now - if a ref is called to the monitor it’s like they’re expected to change their decision.
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Just smash these twats on Saturday.
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Still, new tactic to try for MacPhee. Every time the opposition has a free kick within crossing distance into our box, just have one of our defenders run into one of their players when it's taken. Then if they do score, it'll be chalked off like ours was tonight. It will, won't it?
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I don't think I've seen VAR actively look for a reason to disallow the goal like that. They spent two minutes checking the offside for the ball across to Ings, then when that was inconclusive, they widened the search for anything else. How on earth is that "clear and obvious"?
And for the almost four minutes it took, the fans in the ground didn't have a clue what was going on.
It's killing the game.
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Thought we generally played well. Mings/Konsa handled most things apart from the goal, midifielders controlled the middle of the park, and the forwards gave them the runaround (just couldn’t hit a barn door with a banjo).
My rage was split between the officials, Luke Shaw and our fullbacks. Specifically Matty Cash, who I thought was bloody terrible yet again. Sloppy in possession and positioning and still failed to find a villa player with a single cross.
Patience has run out with him - I’d get Kesler in there or even recall Guilbert if possible!!
Couple of goaline clearances though, and a very good shot saved..
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I fucking hate Monday night games. I'm still wound up.
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We attacked them incessantly, played really well and deserved to win. That said, the game showed the following usual failings:
The defence - always got a mistake in it
Targett - not good enough
Final ball - not good enough
Midfield - give the ball away sloppily too often
Watkins - lots of running, not enough composure
Ings - not enough running, plays like an old man
Agree with all of this. In addition I don't think Cash is good enough for a modern day fullback. Great athlete but distribution is too inconsistent
Good performance overall against the worst MU team in decades
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Appalling decision that proves what most of us have known for some time, the game is rotten to the core. However, we waste far too many good opportunities and make wrong decisions at crucial times. At times we were tremendous and at times I would have fancied my chances against us, and that's with fucked up Covid lungs! Hey ho, onto Saturday with hopefully at least two additions.
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Picture of Sir Alex and the match officials all smiles for the camera pre-match doing the rounds.
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Just smash these twats on Saturday.
That’d be lovely. Coutinho to come on and score a hat trick.
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Still, new tactic to try for MacPhee. Every time the opposition has a free kick within crossing distance into our box, just have one of our defenders run into one of their players when it's taken. Then if they do score, it'll be chalked off like ours was tonight. It will, won't it?
Nah, it’ll just give them another option. They’ll give it as a foul the other way and a penalty
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Doesn't make any different If Canvani isn't getting to the ball,it shows he being blocked,we have got to learn quickly, like them fouling, instead of discussing it with the referees and opposition players take the free kick quickly
I'll think you will find it does make a difference is if he getting to ball or not it was explained after the match. He wasn't blocked Ramsey just stood his ground and Cavani ran into him because it was easier to do that than get back.
It doesn't matter what we do if the officials blatantly cheat and that is the only way I can put it, as it was cheating.
If Ramsey had been onside when the kick was taken, it would have been ok as he is entitled to stand his ground, but he gained an advantage by being offside when the kick was taken. I agree it’s pretty obscure (like the excuse for the Man City goal last season).
What advantage did he gain?
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Doesn't make any different If Canvani isn't getting to the ball,it shows he being blocked,we have got to learn quickly, like them fouling, instead of discussing it with the referees and opposition players take the free kick quickly
I'll think you will find it does make a difference is if he getting to ball or not it was explained after the match. He wasn't blocked Ramsey just stood his ground and Cavani ran into him because it was easier to do that than get back.
It doesn't matter what we do if the officials blatantly cheat and that is the only way I can put it, as it was cheating.
If Ramsey had been onside when the kick was taken, it would have been ok as he is entitled to stand his ground, but he gained an advantage by being offside when the kick was taken. I agree it’s pretty obscure (like the excuse for the Man City goal last season).
Just to be clear; you're saying that if Ramsey was onside and Cavani ran into him and hits the deck, the goal would have stood?
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Do we know who the ref is on Saturday yet?
Kevin Friend, with clones of Kevin Friend on VAR, Mark Halsey on one line and Michael Oliver on the other.
I’ve heard Phil Dowd may be dusting his boots off
It’ll be Jon Moss. Just wait and see.
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If they went back any further they'd be dissowing the initial free kick. ******.
As I said to a friend earlier, they would have ruled it out for us being founded first if they needed to. I don't tend to get angry over football results but I'm fuming after that one. Oliver was looking directly at Cavani/Ramsey and saw nothing in it till they realised Watkins didn't touch it and the goal couldn't be ruled offside. I hope VP gives them a warm welcome on Sat. the cheating plastic c***ts. Says it all....
https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1480648477235372040?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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Having seen most of the games over the weekend, there have been several cases of clear errors and resultant goals that would have been disallowed if there had been VAR. It's like having two, different sets of rules in the same competion. As has been said many times before, they were desperate to find something, anything they could use to deny our goal. Konsa, with his face covered in blood, no review. Clear and obvious corruption and it has to stop.
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Tonight was the football equivalent of the last FI race.
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Thoiught we had a couple of really good spells. I think we miss the Nakamba, or a player liek that. Luiz isnt like that. I think that frees up the two midfielders. Still give away the ball too much.
Think Ramsey looks great when he runs with the Ball, would like to see him yet beyond the forwards sometimes - but needs to stop the stupid bookings.
We need to make better decisions in the final third. Beudia is the only one that seems to be able to create much - but I guess Berts and Bailey have been out. And now Young
Still slightly worried by how rigid SG is to his formation and work with his subs - first few games his subs changed the game. But clearly there working on it this window
To be honest, it played out exactly how I expected, "Stevie G's plucky Villans run Man Utd Close" - with the typical VAR bollocks
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An error strewn and disjointed performance against an equally abysmal Man U
Martinez 7
Targett 4
Mings 4
Konsa 4
Cash 5
Luis 3
McGuinn 3
Buendia 5
Ramsey4
Watkins 4
Ings 4
Gerrard 4
VAR Punch in the face.
Ridiculous marks, mate. We played well and were cheated as we always are in this fixture.
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Doesn't make any different If Canvani isn't getting to the ball,it shows he being blocked,we have got to learn quickly, like them fouling, instead of discussing it with the referees and opposition players take the free kick quickly
I'll think you will find it does make a difference is if he getting to ball or not it was explained after the match. He wasn't blocked Ramsey just stood his ground and Cavani ran into him because it was easier to do that than get back.
It doesn't matter what we do if the officials blatantly cheat and that is the only way I can put it, as it was cheating.
If Ramsey had been onside when the kick was taken, it would have been ok as he is entitled to stand his ground, but he gained an advantage by being offside when the kick was taken. I agree it’s pretty obscure (like the excuse for the Man City goal last season).
Just to be clear; you're saying that if Ramsey was onside and Cavani ran into him and hits the deck, the goal would have stood?
Yes, pretty sure it would have. Players block players at corners and free kicks all the time. Ramsey was yards off so it did look a bit odd. I thought it was ok as Ramsey had not moved into cavani’s path. Cavani just ran into him.
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An error strewn and disjointed performance against an equally abysmal Man U
Martinez 7
Targett 4
Mings 4
Konsa 4
Cash 5
Luis 3
McGuinn 3
Buendia 5
Ramsey4
Watkins 4
Ings 4
Gerrard 4
VAR Punch in the face.
Ridiculous marks, mate. We played well and were cheated as we always are in this fixture.
I think in general we played well, but there were poor displays like from McGinn and Cash. We got a bad decision, but we also failed to avoid conceding a poor goal and failed to take numerous other chances.
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An error strewn and disjointed performance against an equally abysmal Man U
Martinez 7
Targett 4
Mings 4
Konsa 4
Cash 5
Luis 3
McGuinn 3
Buendia 5
Ramsey4
Watkins 4
Ings 4
Gerrard 4
VAR Punch in the face.
Ridiculous marks, mate. We played well and were cheated as we always are in this fixture.
Disagree. The obvious predicted cheating has masked the fact that Man U were abysmal and we still couldn't lay a glove on them for most of the match.
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I watched the game in a pub and couldn't hear the commentary properly. I really thought the goal was chalked off for Ings being offside after Ollies flick and thought may have been a handball as well. What was said in the studio? I was very surprised to find
out it was disallowed for a foul by Ramsey on Cavahni which is total bollocks because Cavanhi clearly runs straight into Ramsey? And the clincher is the length of time they took to find a reason to disallow the goal. 3.36 minutes proves beyond doubt it was not a clear and obvious error by the ref. I would love the club to call them out over it and publicly ask for clarification as to when and how is used. This was clearly misuse of the system and is now bordering on full blown favouritism in favour of certain clubs.
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Doesn't make any different If Canvani isn't getting to the ball,it shows he being blocked,we have got to learn quickly, like them fouling, instead of discussing it with the referees and opposition players take the free kick quickly
I'll think you will find it does make a difference is if he getting to ball or not it was explained after the match. He wasn't blocked Ramsey just stood his ground and Cavani ran into him because it was easier to do that than get back.
It doesn't matter what we do if the officials blatantly cheat and that is the only way I can put it, as it was cheating.
If Ramsey had been onside when the kick was taken, it would have been ok as he is entitled to stand his ground, but he gained an advantage by being offside when the kick was taken. I agree it’s pretty obscure (like the excuse for the Man City goal last season).
Just to be clear; you're saying that if Ramsey was onside and Cavani ran into him and hits the deck, the goal would have stood?
So Lineker was trying to say on BBC....But Cavani has to have been able to clear the danger....which he was nowhere near doing. He didnt try a leg all night, was caught on his heels for the free kick and decided to run into Ramsey to look for the free out. Oliver seemed to be looking straight at it and didnt blow for a foul in real time. Complete joke.
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Ramsey did have a little step across and was looking directly at Cavani. But he was going to get nowhere near Konsa.
The way they went about it, desperately looking for a reason to disallow it was absolutely shocking. They must've rocked that frame back and forwards 20 times from multiple angles to see if it brushed Watkins laces to put Ings offside.
Turned it straight off after the game, did Gerrard call out the ****** doing VAR?
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Ramsey did have a little step across and was looking directly at Cavani. But he was going to get nowhere near Konsa.
The way they went about it, desperately looking for a reason to disallow it was absolutely shocking. They must've rocked that frame back and forwards 20 times from multiple angles to see if it brushed Watkins laces to put Ings offside.
Turned it straight off after the game, did Gerrard call out the ****** doing VAR?
The work experience idiot they get to do the interviews with Gerrard after the game for the OS didn't even mention it.
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I thought we played extremely well and we were very hard done by. Ridiculous refereeing and also decision by VAR.
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VAR went so far back, they were looking for a foul by Mortimer on Stapleton.
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Watch it back, Oliver is literally staring at the incident and shakes his head at Cavani when he protests.
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But remember, we're only in this league because technology was switched off in the 96th minute on the last day of the season, so stop your bitching....
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They looked for an offside, couldn't find it, so they looked for a handball, couldn't find it because it came off Ings's thigh. So they looked for something, anything and phew, THANK THE LORD, there was a broken eyelash between Cavani and Ramsey, despite the FACT that Cavani wouldn't have got to the ball. Never mind that Cavani was the defender and ran into the attacker in Ramsey, never going to be a penalty to us was it? THANK GOD FOR VAR, YOU ARE DOING A WONDERFUL JOB, of ruining the game!!
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Ramsey did have a little step across and was looking directly at Cavani. But he was going to get nowhere near Konsa.
The way they went about it, desperately looking for a reason to disallow it was absolutely shocking. They must've rocked that frame back and forwards 20 times from multiple angles to see if it brushed Watkins laces to put Ings offside.
Turned it straight off after the game, did Gerrard call out the ****** doing VAR?
The work experience idiot they get to do the interviews with Gerrard after the game for the OS didn't even mention it.
I very rarely listen to any of the drivel the OS interviews serve up.
Does Woodward still get involved with his best Partridge impressions?
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Watch it back, Oliver is literally staring at the incident and shakes his head at Cavani when he protests.
Which is even more incredulous that he disallowed the goal after rewatching it.
If he can’t rely on his own view first time round, maybe he’s in the wrong job.
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Fuck the fuckers harder on Saturday
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Doesn't make any different If Canvani isn't getting to the ball,it shows he being blocked,we have got to learn quickly, like them fouling, instead of discussing it with the referees and opposition players take the free kick quickly
I'll think you will find it does make a difference is if he getting to ball or not it was explained after the match. He wasn't blocked Ramsey just stood his ground and Cavani ran into him because it was easier to do that than get back.
It doesn't matter what we do if the officials blatantly cheat and that is the only way I can put it, as it was cheating.
If Ramsey had been onside when the kick was taken, it would have been ok as he is entitled to stand his ground, but he gained an advantage by being offside when the kick was taken. I agree it’s pretty obscure (like the excuse for the Man City goal last season).
Just to be clear; you're saying that if Ramsey was onside and Cavani ran into him and hits the deck, the goal would have stood?
Yes, pretty sure it would have. Players block players at corners and free kicks all the time. Ramsey was yards off so it did look a bit odd. I thought it was ok as Ramsey had not moved into cavani’s path. Cavani just ran into him.
But Cavani can't play or challenge for the ball (unless he's got go go gadget limbs)? So, at what point can a player be considered 'challenging' for the ball? And even putting that aside, how does that interpretation work when an attacking player is offside but is not directly interfering with play, but a defender has to move round him to get closer where the ball is? The amount of times such goals are given are numerous.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/man-utd-vs-a-villa/report/461013
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The officials are so far beyond incompetent it has to be premeditated corruption. I don't know any other profession that can get things so wrong and still have a job (other than politicians).
I've spat so many feathers over the last three hours I'm starting a duvet business.
We were Jekyll and Hyde for the entire game, some great stuff followed pretty quickly by needlessly gifting the ball back to Utd. I said it at half-time and I'll say it again - Utd were there for the taking.
Fernandes and Shaw are utter twats.
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Just got home (Bury). Decent performance but ultimately fuming about a VAR check that has robbed us. Equalize then and we go on and win.
Man Utd are piss poor. So you just know that they're now going to win the trophy.
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Liverpool were the same when they dominated in the seventies and eighties, officials kissed there arses then,
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Those VAR bastards are probably holding a meeting right now to see who can come up with the most outrageous reason for disallowing a Villa goal on Saturday (or for giving Manure a penalty as they didn't get one tonight).
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Shaw has a sense of humour at least. When we were signing he's a fat Matt Targett, he was laughing. Fernandes is somebody I wouldn't tire of seeing kicked in the groin.
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VAR went so far back, they were looking for a foul by Mortimer on Stapleton.
I half expected Des Lynam and Trevor Brooking to be back in the studio for BBC at the end
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https://www.skysports.com/football/man-utd-vs-a-villa/report/461013
I think the poster who gave us 3' and 4's in his ratings should have a look at this. Mostly 7's and 8's for our players. That's a more accurate and level headed view from a neutral sports journo.
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How fucking hard did they work to disallow that ings goal, cheating ******
They worked their fucking arses off that's how hard they worked.
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From the manager. Very honest assessment
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1480672804483780611?s=21
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https://www.skysports.com/football/man-utd-vs-a-villa/report/461013
I think the poster who gave us 3' and 4's in his ratings should have a look at this. Mostly 7's and 8's for our players. That's a more accurate and level headed view from a neutral sports journo.
I thought we played well largely but what I don't know is whether that was us being good or them really being awful.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/man-utd-vs-a-villa/report/461013
I think the poster who gave us 3' and 4's in his ratings should have a look at this. Mostly 7's and 8's for our players. That's a more accurate and level headed view from a neutral sports journo.
I thought we played well largely but what I don't know is whether that was us being good or them really being awful.
They are really poor, endlessly gave the ball away to us most of the night.
Varane in fairness had a decent game, cut out plenty of our promising moves.
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Liverpool were the same when they dominated in the seventies and eighties, officials kissed there arses then,
That's just it though.United are no longer dominant at all. The officials act as though Old Red Nose is still omnipresent in English football.
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How fucking hard did they work to disallow that ings goal, cheating ******
They worked their fucking arses off that's how hard they worked.
Yeah fair play to VAR, they left no stone unturned in their quest to disallow the goal.
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Liverpool were the same when they dominated in the seventies and eighties, officials kissed there arses then,
That's just it though.United are no longer dominant at all. The officials still act as though Old Red Nose is still omnipresent in English football.
They last won the league about a decade ago.
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Manchester United 1-0 Aston Villa: McTominay the difference for Red Devils against Villa - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59945468
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I'm trying to stop seething about us getting shafted by var again against man u again. It's no good for my blood pressure. But it's not easy. One observation I think needs bringing up is how much we dominated a game only to come away with nothing. Our last league game against Brentford was a carbon copy admittedly without the help of the cheating twunts in charge. For the second game running Gerrard has had to face the cameras and lament about us dominating a game and leaving empty handed. That's the biggest challenge he faces now.
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Rule 11 Interfering With Play
In situations where:
• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an
opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball
this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or
challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and
impedes the opponent’s progress (e.g. blocks the opponent), the offence
should be penalised under Law 12
So the very little used part of the offside rule is there and could have been used against us in that situation. And as it was an obvious ploy to stand Ramsey there, obviously our own coaches don't know the laws either. Still a player who jumps across a keeper and attacker is not interfering at all it seems.
When I was finding out the above, interestingly there is one other part of the law which never seems to be used either.
a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of
playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball,
or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred
before the offside offence
So the way I'm reading that, if a player is in an offside position and is fouled as they are running to the ball, the foul overrides offside. How many times has that not been used and Offside given to negate the foul on an attacker?
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Its not an offence as the geriatric has to be close to the ball yo play it and he's not. There also has to be a positive action by Ramsey, to interfere, passively standing there is not an offence. They're cheating fucking ******.
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Its not an offence as the geriatric has to be close to the ball yo play it and he's not. There also has to be a positive action by Ramsey, to interfere, passively standing there is not an offence. They're cheating fucking ******.
Bang on.
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Its not an offence as the geriatric has to be close to the ball and he's not. There also has to be a positive action by Ramsey, to interfere, passively standing there is not an offence. They're cheating fucking ******.
Yep that's how i see it.
The point is it doesn't even matter what the rules say as they would have found a way to disallow the goal by whatever means they wanted too.
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Had a good go Watkins was superb.
Not for the first game buendia gets subbed and it's game over from an attacking perspective. He's lightweight and tries stuff that don't come off but he's the most creative player we've got till Coutinhio is ready.
Not even going to comment about the officials, I expect the same to happen on Saturday. Villa play well and get done by the ref/lino/var... plus ça change...
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Do you reckon they might let us have Andre Marriner to referee on Saturday? Might level it up a bit.
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VAR went so far back, they were looking for a foul by Mortimer on Stapleton.
Brilliant! That cheered me up!
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The fact that VAR only showed the ref the front on view of Cavani running into Ramsey says it all. When the ref saw that in front of himself in real time.
Clutching at straws rather an a clear and obvious error.
Some sort of corruption in plain view.
Nearly 2000 comments on the BBC match report within a hour says it all.
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Rule 11 Interfering With Play
In situations where:
• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an
opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball
this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or
challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and
impedes the opponent’s progress (e.g. blocks the opponent), the offence
should be penalised under Law 12
So the very little used part of the offside rule is there and could have been used against us in that situation. And as it was an obvious ploy to stand Ramsey there, obviously our own coaches don't know the laws either. Still a player who jumps across a keeper and attacker is not interfering at all it seems.
When I was finding out the above, interestingly there is one other part of the law which never seems to be used either.
a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of
playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball,
or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred
before the offside offence
So the way I'm reading that, if a player is in an offside position and is fouled as they are running to the ball, the foul overrides offside. How many times has that not been used and Offside given to negate the foul on an attacker?
Cavani can't play or challenge for the ball as it's nowhere near him. When the ball is played again it would become a different phase of play but he's already thrown himself to the ground.
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4 minutes to make a call. Clear and obvious hahaha
Exactly what I was shouting whilst tapping my watch while the delay was on!
Also - 4 minutes of Konsa on the floor (after having his nose slapped in the penalty area but not a foul) & 6 substitutions (I think) but all of that adds up to 6 minutes extra time!
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Its not an offence as the geriatric has to be close to the ball and he's not. There also has to be a positive action by Ramsey, to interfere, passively standing there is not an offence. They're cheating fucking ******.
Yep that's how i see it.
The point is it doesn't even matter what the rules say as they would have found a way to disallow the goal by whatever means they wanted too.
Absolutely - they HAD to find something. Nearly 4 minutes FFS.
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Rule 11 Interfering With Play
In situations where:
• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an
opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball
this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or
challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and
impedes the opponent’s progress (e.g. blocks the opponent), the offence
should be penalised under Law 12
So the very little used part of the offside rule is there and could have been used against us in that situation. And as it was an obvious ploy to stand Ramsey there, obviously our own coaches don't know the laws either. Still a player who jumps across a keeper and attacker is not interfering at all it seems.
When I was finding out the above, interestingly there is one other part of the law which never seems to be used either.
a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of
playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball,
or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred
before the offside offence
So the way I'm reading that, if a player is in an offside position and is fouled as they are running to the ball, the foul overrides offside. How many times has that not been used and Offside given to negate the foul on an attacker?
Cavani can't play or challenge for the ball as it's nowhere near him. When the ball is played again it would become a different phase of play but he's already thrown himself to the ground.
I'm not stating it was applied correctly, they needed something and this is what they used to make it sound close to fine and that was what they used. For the last couple of seasons they were giving penalties using VAR when Manure players either fouled themselves or committed the foul first. Or as with Man Citeh against us, interpreted another offside rule wrongly as well. The of course there was Leicester when that rule on keeper having control for a milisecond is enough which had never been used like that before or since.
It does seem to be that they should rename the laws "how do we shaft Villa this week".
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I hope we're all still this fucking angry, from player, to coaching staff and to supporters come 17:30 on Saturday. If we are, then B6 will be bouncing and we will run all over these ******.
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Anyway. Cheating aside.
Thought we played well. And in the majority of the game were clearly the better side.
We went flat once Buendia went off.
So for the past 3 games SGs subs have been shite.
AEG or Trez are never the answer SG.
Please wise up FFS.
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Anyway. Cheating aside.
Thought we played well. And in the majority of the game were clearly the better side.
We went flat once Buendia went off.
So for the past 3 games SGs subs have been shite.
AEG or Trez are never the answer SG.
Please wise up FFS.
Spot on
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If they went back any further they'd be dissowing the initial free kick. ******.
My dad said that they were going to keep going until they could see if Martinez was offside.
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I'm excited for Buendia and Countinho playing behind Ollie.
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I refuse to call it a good display tonight because quite frankly that was the worst Manure team I’ve seen ever. Missing a few key players there for the taking. I just knew we would fcuk it up again. Why can’t we bastard well finish easy chances. And if that isn’t evidence of ‘favours’ for big clubs I don’t know what is. Another fcuking year gone.
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I'm excited for Buendia and Countinho playing behind Ollie.
Buendia is starting to show his class - exciting times ahead.
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Conversation
Tom
@tdnightingale
Some unfortunate news for #AVFC fans: after a lengthy VAR check, Kortney Hause's winner at Old Trafford on September 25 has now been disallowed.
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Cheated against these wankers yet again .As soon as i saw Oliver was the referee i feared the worst Ever since he failed to give Sheffield United the goal he should have he seems to go out of his way to give bad decisions against us .Refereeing in general has never been so bad Did anyone watch our U23 game against Boro this afternoon .I kid you not the referee gave Boro a penalty for their striker tripping over his own leg There was no villa player anywhere near him It was such a dreadful decision Ian Taylor who was commentating could'nt stop laughing
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Fuck them, fuck the ref, fuck VAR, fuck them again.
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VAR is a pox on the sport. Legitimises favouritism and creates an opportunity for corruption. I would joyfully scrap it this morning. The sad thing for me is that none of the footballing governing bodies give a monkeys about what we think. We are just legacy fans to them and our opinion matters not in the slightest to them. If I were them, I would be grimacing at how blatantly tilted that VAR check was.
Villa in that second half were a joy to behold though. Waves of attacks, the opposition couldn't clear it without it coming right back at them. Man U are a shambles compared to some of their previous sides but, still, great to see Villa utterly dominate them. I really, really, really hope we spank them 3-0 on Saturday.
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An error strewn and disjointed performance against an equally abysmal Man U
Martinez 7
Targett 4
Mings 4
Konsa 4
Cash 5
Luis 3
McGuinn 3
Buendia 5
Ramsey4
Watkins 4
Ings 4
Gerrard 4
VAR Punch in the face.
Ridiculous marks, mate. We played well and were cheated as we always are in this fixture.
Disagree. The obvious predicted cheating has masked the fact that Man U were abysmal and we still couldn't lay a glove on them for most of the match.
Not long home. I know being at the match and getting carried away with the emotion and adrenaline, clouds objectivity. But saying we didnt lay a glove on them is frankly ridiculous.
We played really well tonight. I dont want us to be plucky losers and not does SG listening to his post match interview. But some of the negativity on here goes beyond disappointment or realism. Yes its an average Man Utd, but as someone posted earlier in the week, weve beat them away twice in the same season maybe once in our history. Nevertheless we should of won tonight and i really dont understand not only not seeing the positives, but seeing a different performance than the one that actually took place.
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Woke up still depressed about the result but definitely not the performance then had a listen to SGs post match comments and I feel a lot better now and looking forward to the weekend. No bullshit or excuses just honest views on what we need to put right
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Strange game really.
No doubt we were the better side, even a lot of Man U fans said so.
We looked like the home team, especially 2nd half, pining them into their own half for long spells and them trying to catch us on the break.
We played some good stuff at times but there were also a lot of stray passes.
I knew we would get that goal chalked off.
I have never seen any VAR decision like it, where they are looking for any reason to disallow a goal.
They keep banging on about it having to be "clear and obvious" to change a decision which it clearly wasn't.
Isn't Ramsey allowed to stand his ground? He didn't make any movement to prevent Cavani running into the pen area.
The length of time in deciding to rule out our goal clearly upset our momentum and we seemed to run out of steam after that.
I was born in 1958, the year after we last won the cup.
I really am thinking it will never happen again in my life time.
I hope we smash them on Saturday, they were very poor tonight.
UTV
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I refuse to call it a good display tonight because quite frankly that was the worst Manure team I’ve seen ever. Missing a few key players there for the taking. I just knew we would fcuk it up again. Why can’t we bastard well finish easy chances. And if that isn’t evidence of ‘favours’ for big clubs I don’t know what is. Another fcuking year gone.
I agree. We were good in parts, and as sloppy and as poor as they were in others. I think most premier league sides would have beaten them, they were absolutely there for the taking and I don’t think I’ve seen a United side give the ball away as often.
We are not composed or clinical enough in the final third.
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Wait until Saturday, if we are winning after 90 mins there will probably be 30 mins of injury time!
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The practical side of me says that yes Ramsey clearly takes a step into Cavani's path and on that basis it was a foul and if Oliver had blown up for it then when he was looking at it fair enough. What pissed me off is that we all know that if that was a United goal, they might have looked at the offside/handball issue but would then have awarded the goal. That way we would pissed off but Dermot Gallagher on red watch would simply have it away with "VAR decided to go with the referees decision" .
Virtually every goal from a set piece has jostling in the penalty area it's just up to the ref/VAR to decide which is a "clear and obvious error" and that's where they always have us. Oh and why are we the only team for which you need a rule book handy?
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Thought we did well. Could easily have won that with a less bias VAR and a little more composure in the middle and upfront.
We really need to improve the centre midfield, full backs and work out if we’re going to play narrow or wide.
If I were a Man Utd fan this morning I’d be utterly embarrassed.
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The practical side of me says that yes Ramsey clearly takes a step into Cavani's path...
I've watched it several times and Ramsey's feet do not move until Cavani clatters into him.
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So the way to defend free kicks near the box is to make sure the opposition has a player standing in an offside position and just have someone run into them. Job's a good 'un.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/man-utd-vs-a-villa/report/461013
I think the poster who gave us 3' and 4's in his ratings should have a look at this. Mostly 7's and 8's for our players. That's a more accurate and level headed view from a neutral sports journo.
I thought we played well largely but what I don't know is whether that was us being good or them really being awful.
The sky sports reporters scores for the Villa players are a far more accurate assessment of the game i was at than some of the ultra negative posts. I would of though given Mings and Konsa a 7 each. We werent clinical enough, United are a top 4 United at the moment, but that doesnt make it a poor performance by us. And the poster who said any premier league side would of beaten them last night (apart from us presumably) is speaking nonsense.
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I think it's best not to take too much notice of scores given by posters. They don't mean that much even if one batch last night smacked of attention seeking.
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Personally I thought we played well at times and looked very much like the home team for long spells.
Most of the media go on about how poor United were but that's always the same when somebody outside the top 4 give one of the headline clubs a game.
It's never we were good its always they were poor.
Don't bother with most of the negative stuff. You can find it in any game and in any player of you want and besides its mostly pish anyway.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/man-utd-vs-a-villa/report/461013
I think the poster who gave us 3' and 4's in his ratings should have a look at this. Mostly 7's and 8's for our players. That's a more accurate and level headed view from a neutral sports journo.
I thought we played well largely but what I don't know is whether that was us being good or them really being awful.
The sky sports reporters scores for the Villa players are a far more accurate assessment of the game i was at than some of the ultra negative posts. I would of though given Mings and Konsa a 7 each. We werent clinical enough, United are a top 4 United at the moment, but that doesnt make it a poor performance by us. And the poster who said any premier league side would of beaten them last night (apart from us presumably) is speaking nonsense.
I said most and I stand by that. Wolves should have been out of sight long before they eventually scored last week and United were every bit as bad last night. They have completely lost their way and we let a demoralised, disjointed side off the hook. Need put it right on Saturday.
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There is systemic bias within refereeing in this country, they should be fucked off. Says it all that David Ellery, the biggest fussy twat of yesteryear, is all powerful at the head of it.
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The morning after and I've calmed down a bit. Watched Gerrard's post-match interview and must say I agree with his measured assessment.
We have got something for sure but it's about making those chances count, being defensively switched on. Gerrard sees that and will act on it.
It does worry me that we have lost to teams in the last two games who played poorly against us. For all the promise that has to end. Both the Brentford game and the Man Utd game were almost identical in some ways (apart from the bent officiating). Lots of positive forward play with no end product, good defending undone by lapses of concentration or passivity.
Mostly though our midfield as a collective is weak. Every player we can talk though their individual attributes which they have but collectively there is far too much sloppy play, poor decision making.
Saw the Wolves game on the box against Man Utd and their midfield barely made a mistake, was positionally disciplined, didn't give them a sniff.
We have got to work as a group there and make it much harder to play through us and against us.
The potential is there but we have to stop 'nearly' being good or 'nearly' winning matches.
Gerrard will sort this out.
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I thought that when players were subbed that they had to go off at the side of the pitch they are nearest too?
Fernandes walked to the goalkeeper from the halfway line to pass over the Captains armband and then walked off the pitch he must have taken well over 1 minute to leave the pitch (My Nans funeral procession was quicker)
I can imagine them in the VAR room after Villa had equalised looking through the rules to see if there is any reason not to give the goal, personally if VAR cannot be used at every ground in the FA Cup then it should not be used at all
I hope on Saturday we destroy these wankers!
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Think the midfield is the key problem - initially it was working much better - but I think
Nakamba being out has messed up the structure of the midfield.
SJM and Luiz need to give the away ball less. Really like Ramsey and his ability to travel with the ball - some of decision making will improve and I think he’ll be a hell of a player
Although ings and Watkins wasn’t as bad last night - still think you play Watkins centrally or not at all - he looks pretty average otherwise.
Full backs are a let down at the moment - think Targett struggles in his own head a lot and need confidence - and I think that’s gone because he is well aware he isn’t the kind of fullback that SG wants - I swear he was better in the final third until recently - Not good, but not as awful as now.
With Cash - he seems to be playing within himself - he seems to have lost some of his directness. His crossing is also shit.
Without fullbacks as an stacking option it forces us narrow all the time and Beundia seems to be the only one with the cuteness to unlock teams.
Unfortunately in the forward positions basically every player has suffered injuries and or loss of form at some point this season - basically leaving us most of the time without the cutting edge we had with Joe Bert and Watkins last season.
SG has a clear way of wanting to play - which I like - although worry it is too narrow at times, but currently we’re too easy to score against due to lack of concentration and struggle to take our chances.
So for me positive and frustration in equal measures
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Ings will probably work well with Buendia and Phil, lots of clever through balls for him to finish. Watkins is a better presser and pulls people all over the place - probably better with wider forwards around him.
Nothing wrong with having two systems, but Ings and Watkins doesn't work.
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Strange game really.
No doubt we were the better side, even a lot of Man U fans said so.
We looked like the home team, especially 2nd half, pining them into their own half for long spells and them trying to catch us on the break.
We played some good stuff at times but there were also a lot of stray passes.
I knew we would get that goal chalked off.
I have never seen any VAR decision like it, where they are looking for any reason to disallow a goal.
They keep banging on about it having to be "clear and obvious" to change a decision which it clearly wasn't.
Isn't Ramsey allowed to stand his ground? He didn't make any movement to prevent Cavani running into the pen area.
The length of time in deciding to rule out our goal clearly upset our momentum and we seemed to run out of steam after that.
I was born in 1958, the year after we last won the cup.
I really am thinking it will never happen again in my life time.
I hope we smash them on Saturday, they were very poor tonight.
UTV
As a fellow 1958-er I agree entirely with your sentiments and assessment of the game.
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The practical side of me says that yes Ramsey clearly takes a step into Cavani's path...
I've watched it several times and Ramsey's feet do not move until Cavani clatters into him.
Yup, that's how I saw it. Cavani ran into the boy; clear.
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I am a 56er Dont think we had a TV when I was born, so not seen a win either.
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VAR went so far back, they were looking for a foul by Mortimer on Stapleton.
MacParland on the 'keeper.
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The practical side of me says that yes Ramsey clearly takes a step into Cavani's path...
I've watched it several times and Ramsey's feet do not move until Cavani clatters into him.
You need to watch it again because Ramsey is clearly moving to his right. If he hadn't we woukd have scored. Yes I agree its harsh but my point was that would never have been looked at if it had been for us and Oliver saw it and dismissed it
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An error strewn and disjointed performance against an equally abysmal Man U
Martinez 7
Targett 4
Mings 4
Konsa 4
Cash 5
Luis 3
McGuinn 3
Buendia 5
Ramsey4
Watkins 4
Ings 4
Gerrard 4
VAR Punch in the face.
Ridiculous marks, mate. We played well and were cheated as we always are in this fixture.
Disagree. The obvious predicted cheating has masked the fact that Man U were abysmal and we still couldn't lay a glove on them for most of the match.
Not long home. I know being at the match and getting carried away with the emotion and adrenaline, clouds objectivity. But saying we didnt lay a glove on them is frankly ridiculous.
We played really well tonight. I dont want us to be plucky losers and not does SG listening to his post match interview. But some of the negativity on here goes beyond disappointment or realism. Yes its an average Man Utd, but as someone posted earlier in the week, weve beat them away twice in the same season maybe once in our history. Nevertheless we should of won tonight and i really dont understand not only not seeing the positives, but seeing a different performance than the one that actually took place.
I don't know Rambo. I set the VAR decision aside and ignored it because a)VAR is bollocks and b)tonight is what its there for, to stir up controversy, the best guy lost etc, WWE do it all the time. You only have to see that personality vacuum Lineker taking our side - ooer Villa were robbed - loving every minute of the fact he has something to talk about. Well call for it to be scrapped then Gary?
Back to the game, yes we should have won which is the point of my complaints really. We had 4 shots on target? I guess that doesn't include the "goal" and the offside (good move I thought) so for all that domination we didn't really show it. VAR had nothing to do with their goal - the very definition of soft - which Gerrard obviously noted in his post match interview, but the worse thing was all the misplaced passes including setting up Man U attacks with their pinpoint accuracy. If that goal had been given would we have won because we were still struggling to test their goal keeper and after 70 minutes we had lost our way anyway - all set up for VAR penalty. ::) what i'm saying if we'd played a "normal" team away would we have been happy with our performance? They were really bad and the whole us against VAR narrative sort of disguises the fact we should have won easily. We've played much better under Gerrard imo.
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I saw it like this...
The cross comes in with Ramsey in an offside position. He simply stands his ground and Cavani runs into him, right in front of Oliver. who obviously doesn't deem it a foul.
We score the goal, then VAR look at 2 possible offsides and a handball, all which cannot be proven, even with multiple slo-mo replays. So, what else can we look at? Ah, the 'foul' by Ramsey, that was right in front of Oliver.
He now thinks he has made a clear and obvious error... it's an absolute load of cheating horse sh!t!
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I'm excited for Buendia and Countinho playing behind Ollie.
I actually think that Ings and Buendia are on a better wavelength.
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I saw it like this...
The cross comes in with Ramsey in an offside position. He simply stands his ground and Cavani runs into him, right in front of Oliver. who obviously doesn't deem it a foul.
We score the goal, then VAR look at 2 possible offsides and a handball, all which cannot be proven, even with multiple slo-mo replays. So, what else can we look at? Ah, the 'foul' by Ramsey, that was right in front of Oliver.
He now thinks he has made a clear and obvious error... it's an absolute load of cheating horse sh!t!
Has it been clarified yet if they gave a foul against Ramsey or adjudged him to be offside?
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I'm excited for Buendia and Countinho playing behind Ollie.
I actually think that Ings and Buendia are on a better wavelength.
Think you might be right - Ings seems to have better movement in the box
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I saw it like this...
The cross comes in with Ramsey in an offside position. He simply stands his ground and Cavani runs into him, right in front of Oliver. who obviously doesn't deem it a foul.
We score the goal, then VAR look at 2 possible offsides and a handball, all which cannot be proven, even with multiple slo-mo replays. So, what else can we look at? Ah, the 'foul' by Ramsey, that was right in front of Oliver.
He now thinks he has made a clear and obvious error... it's an absolute load of cheating horse sh!t!
Has it been clarified yet if they gave a foul against Ramsey or adjudged him to be offside?
They are still re-writing the actual rule, but all they know is that the goal should be disallowed, reason TBC.
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Cheated against these wankers yet again .As soon as i saw Oliver was the referee i feared the worst Ever since he failed to give Sheffield United the goal he should have he seems to go out of his way to give bad decisions against us .Refereeing in general has never been so bad Did anyone watch our U23 game against Boro this afternoon .I kid you not the referee gave Boro a penalty for their striker tripping over his own leg There was no villa player anywhere near him It was such a dreadful decision Ian Taylor who was commentating could'nt stop laughing
I went to that. Sat behind the Boro bench. All the subs (obviously only kids) and the coaches were pissing themselves. GB was apoplectic.
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I saw it like this...
The cross comes in with Ramsey in an offside position. He simply stands his ground and Cavani runs into him, right in front of Oliver. who obviously doesn't deem it a foul.
We score the goal, then VAR look at 2 possible offsides and a handball, all which cannot be proven, even with multiple slo-mo replays. So, what else can we look at? Ah, the 'foul' by Ramsey, that was right in front of Oliver.
He now thinks he has made a clear and obvious error... it's an absolute load of cheating horse sh!t!
Has it been clarified yet if they gave a foul against Ramsey or adjudged him to be offside?
Was it a direct or indirect free kick afterwards? I don't know. And if he gave it as offside, it must be the first ever goal that has 3 possible offsides checked against it!
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They took longer studying the VAR than the FBI did studying the JFK Zapruder film.
Both still came up with nonsensical reasoning.
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I saw it like this...
The cross comes in with Ramsey in an offside position. He simply stands his ground and Cavani runs into him, right in front of Oliver. who obviously doesn't deem it a foul.
We score the goal, then VAR look at 2 possible offsides and a handball, all which cannot be proven, even with multiple slo-mo replays. So, what else can we look at? Ah, the 'foul' by Ramsey, that was right in front of Oliver.
He now thinks he has made a clear and obvious error... it's an absolute load of cheating horse sh!t!
Has it been clarified yet if they gave a foul against Ramsey or adjudged him to be offside?
The rule that they used seems to state it is classed as a foul rather then offside if the offside player is adjudged to have blocked a defender from playing the ball. Seems a weird one as surely offside covers it.
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I would normally calm down by now but I'm still seething about last nights travesty. I thought at the time Ings was offside but this has been cleared up. He wasn't. Cavani ran straight into Ramsey and got the free kick. Complete bullshit. If Ramsey deliberately body checked him then surely that should have been a second yellow for him and he should have been sent off. But that slimey bastard Oliver stopped short of that thus avoiding further scrutiny as Villa would have appealed the decision. The whole thing stinks.
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Can't appeal two yellows though.
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I would normally calm down by now but I'm still seething about last nights travesty. I thought at the time Ings was offside but this has been cleared up. He wasn't. Cavani ran straight into Ramsey and got the free kick. Complete bullshit. If Ramsey deliberately body checked him then surely that should have been a second yellow for him and he should have been sent off. But that slimes bastard Oliver stopped short of that thus avoiding further scrutiny as Villa would have appealed the decision. The whole thing stinks.
You can't appeal a second yellow
Edit: Beaten to it!
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I believe the decision was offside. Ramsey became active because Cavani was impeded from using his legendary world record speed and acceleration to challenge for the cross.
Play restarted with an indirect free kick
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I would normally calm down by now but I'm still seething about last nights travesty. I thought at the time Ings was offside but this has been cleared up. He wasn't. Cavani ran straight into Ramsey and got the free kick. Complete bullshit. If Ramsey deliberately body checked him then surely that should have been a second yellow for him and he should have been sent off. But that slimes bastard Oliver stopped short of that thus avoiding further scrutiny as Villa would have appealed the decision. The whole thing stinks.
You can't appeal a second yellow
Edit: Beaten to it!
Ok so he must of decided to go easy on us then as he had already pulled down our proverbial pants and shafted us royally.
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VAR was Darren England. He’s the twat that allowed Rodriguez’ handball at smethwick back in the day.
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I saw it like this...
The cross comes in with Ramsey in an offside position. He simply stands his ground and Cavani runs into him, right in front of Oliver. who obviously doesn't deem it a foul.
We score the goal, then VAR look at 2 possible offsides and a handball, all which cannot be proven, even with multiple slo-mo replays. So, what else can we look at? Ah, the 'foul' by Ramsey, that was right in front of Oliver.
He now thinks he has made a clear and obvious error... it's an absolute load of cheating horse sh!t!
I was at the match and we were completely in the dark as to what exactly VAR was looking at. If this is true that they looked at 2 possible offsides & a handball,then, why ? If Ramsey’s contact with Cavani was enough to disallow the goal, why spend over 3 minutes trying to find something else ? Was it not deemed enough initially but was all they had to fall back on when they couldn’t find anything else?
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I saw it like this...
The cross comes in with Ramsey in an offside position. He simply stands his ground and Cavani runs into him, right in front of Oliver. who obviously doesn't deem it a foul.
We score the goal, then VAR look at 2 possible offsides and a handball, all which cannot be proven, even with multiple slo-mo replays. So, what else can we look at? Ah, the 'foul' by Ramsey, that was right in front of Oliver.
He now thinks he has made a clear and obvious error... it's an absolute load of cheating horse sh!t!
Has it been clarified yet if they gave a foul against Ramsey or adjudged him to be offside?
The rule that they used seems to state it is classed as a foul rather then offside if the offside player is adjudged to have blocked a defender from playing the ball. Seems a weird one as surely offside covers it.
Just read on the BBC site that they ruled that Ramsey was offside, quoting the following "According to Law 11 of the Football Association's regulations on offside, a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball".
That ruling and the way it was applied last night surely goes against the ruling that went against us at Manchester City a while back.
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It doesn't really matter does it. It wasn't a clear and obvious error - the whole point of VAR - to cut out the complete fecks up by refs. Instead its become an entertainment device like dry ice.
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I'm excited for Buendia and Countinho playing behind Ollie.
I actually think that Ings and Buendia are on a better wavelength.
Me too. Watkins couldn't finish his dinner at the moment.
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Just watched Gerrards post match interview where I was again impressed by the way he addressed things. Refused to focus on VAR and instead looked at what we could have done better. That's the kind of manager I want at the club and I believe will take us forward.
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That ruling and the way it was applied last night surely goes against the ruling that went against us at Manchester City a while back.
Just a little bit! As I said last night, any time we give away a free kick, if there's an opposition player who is at any point in an offside position, all we need to do now is have a player deliberately run into him and fall over, giving us a free kick.
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It comes back to the Schmeical bobbins. A 'keeper could sit there with his palm on the ball, in play for 90 minutes - he's not wasting time and he's in control of the ball.
Likewise if Ramsey is offside, then what would have happened if they had given it? IT WASN'T A CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERROR BY THE REF, YOU DOLTS"
Their own little Catch 22 - Josepth Heller would be proud.
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I'm excited for Buendia and Countinho playing behind Ollie.
I actually think that Ings and Buendia are on a better wavelength.
Me too. Watkins couldn't finish his dinner at the moment.
Ings and Buendia do appear to have struck up at connection. However just Ings up top and I fear you’ll have very little pressing, pace and zero options down the channels. One thing for sure is Ings and Watkins is not developing as a partnership, so better to rotate them.
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It doesn't really matter does it. It wasn't a clear and obvious error - the whole point of VAR - to cut out the complete fecks up by refs. Instead its become an entertainment device like dry ice.
Im not sure if that is a fair comparison
One leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and can be misused to obscure multiple sins by unscrupulous people
The other was popular in nightclubs
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It doesn't really matter does it. It wasn't a clear and obvious error - the whole point of VAR - to cut out the complete fecks up by refs. Instead its become an entertainment device like dry ice.
Im not sure if that is a fair comparison
One leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and can be misused to obscure multiple sins by unscrupulous people
The other was popular in nightclubs
heh, point taken, but its just part of the showbiz sparkle for the neutrals. - you might as well have Shaw breaking a fake chair over Konsa's head.
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I would normally calm down by now but I'm still seething about last nights travesty. I thought at the time Ings was offside but this has been cleared up. He wasn't. Cavani ran straight into Ramsey and got the free kick. Complete bullshit. If Ramsey deliberately body checked him then surely that should have been a second yellow for him and he should have been sent off. But that slimey bastard Oliver stopped short of that thus avoiding further scrutiny as Villa would have appealed the decision. The whole thing stinks.
You know I wasn't looking forward to the game last night, not because I thought we'd lose but because I felt sure that some scandalous, game changing decision would be made against us.
This isn't true of any other team. That really isn't right.
I will feel the same on Saturday. Man Utd get decisions against us routinely, game after game, that smell to high heaven.
I genuinely don't want to get into a paranoid, conspiracy fearing headspace but years of this nonsense has got me there.
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If you had to keep VAR (and it should be dumped in a landfill imo) then the obvious solution is taking away its use by the same people who gave us Fergie time before VAR. And that is never gonna happen.
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I wonder how much money was gambled on a 50:50 decision across Asia last night in that 3 minute 40 second gambling window?
Best league in the world.
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If you had to keep VAR (and it should be dumped in a landfill imo) then the obvious solution is taking away its use by the same people who gave us Fergie time before VAR. And that is never gonna happen.
Honestly just give it to random neutral fans, who sit there in Stockley Park with a copy of the rules. At least we'd get some bias against the twats for once.
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I hate Manure and the way the refs pander to there every whim how much time does it take VAR to make a decision over three minutes that's too long.
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It's the veil of secrecy around the whole thing, in rugby you have Ref Link, every word the referee utters can be heard by the fans and the TV broadcasters, when a decision goes to TMO (VAR) every word of the exchange is broadcast. Why isn't this happening in football?
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It's the veil of secrecy around the whole thing, in rugby you have Ref Link, every word the referee utters can be heard by the fans and the TV broadcasters, when a decision goes to TMO (VAR) every word of the exchange is broadcast. Why isn't this happening in football?
Because it wouldn't look good to hear Michael Oliver saying 'hang on, be patient, I'm sure we'll find something'.
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If you had to keep VAR (and it should be dumped in a landfill imo) then the obvious solution is taking away its use by the same people who gave us Fergie time before VAR. And that is never gonna happen.
Honestly just give it to random neutral fans, who sit there in Stockley Park with a copy of the rules. At least we'd get some bias against the twats for once.
yeah I call it the "playing Subbuteo with yourself" problem. No matter how unbiased you tried to be as a kid, the team you wanted to win invariably did. VAR just amplifies that problem because they're away from action and more importantly no players can get at them or boo them for 90 minutes, while the ref just stands there and goes "not me guv"
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It's the veil of secrecy around the whole thing, in rugby you have Ref Link, every word the referee utters can be heard by the fans and the TV broadcasters, when a decision goes to TMO (VAR) every word of the exchange is broadcast. Why isn't this happening in football?
Because the contradictions and inconsistencies of application would be clear and exposed.
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It's the veil of secrecy around the whole thing, in rugby you have Ref Link, every word the referee utters can be heard by the fans and the TV broadcasters, when a decision goes to TMO (VAR) every word of the exchange is broadcast. Why isn't this happening in football?
Too much swearing in football, I imagine.
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Lineker got it spot on with the first disallowed goal. He observed that it was almost like they were looking for a reason to disallow it.
Now, I'm not one for conspiracy theories. But...
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Some teams have decisions dissected minutely in their favour, those against given a cursory glance. You know which teams we are talking about.
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If you had to keep VAR (and it should be dumped in a landfill imo) then the obvious solution is taking away its use by the same people who gave us Fergie time before VAR. And that is never gonna happen.
Honestly just give it to random neutral fans, who sit there in Stockley Park with a copy of the rules. At least we'd get some bias against the twats for once.
yeah I call it the "playing Subbuteo with yourself" problem. No matter how unbiased you tried to be as a kid, the team you wanted to win invariably did. VAR just amplifies that problem because they're away from action and more importantly no players can get at them or boo them for 90 minutes, while the ref just stands there and goes "not me guv"
Great analogy.
I loved Subbuteo as a kid, my dad glued the pitch onto a board and we play matches together.
Sadly he died during this time and I spent endless matches playing games by myself and doing exactly what you described.
It wasn't even Unconscious bias it was definitely deliberate.
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Hope you don't mind me posting but that was absolutely disgusting last night. 4 minutes to find a clear and obvious error? I find it so wrong that it can only be used at premier league grounds. That goal would count at our stadium in the same competition, how is that right?
I thought you guys were great last night i would certainly be excited as a Villa fan as looks like Gerrard knows what he wants and needs already and with the players linked you could have a great few years ahead.
On a side note what's up with John McGinn doesn't look the same this season, is he struggling with a niggle or something
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Some teams have decisions dissected minutely in their favour, those against given a cursory glance. You know which teams we are talking about.
Absolutely. And we know that had we been 1-0 up with a minute to play then a coming together in the box that leaves the opponents face bloodied would have led to a penalty. It would have been scrutinised by pundits and agreed that if you raise a hand to an opponents face then you are asking for trouble.
We've heard this so many times before.
With us? No mention.
This is the rub. You can justify or play down anything you want and be seen to be right.
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I would normally calm down by now but I'm still seething about last nights travesty. I thought at the time Ings was offside but this has been cleared up. He wasn't. Cavani ran straight into Ramsey and got the free kick. Complete bullshit. If Ramsey deliberately body checked him then surely that should have been a second yellow for him and he should have been sent off. But that slimey bastard Oliver stopped short of that thus avoiding further scrutiny as Villa would have appealed the decision. The whole thing stinks.
You know I wasn't looking forward to the game last night, not because I thought we'd lose but because I felt sure that some scandalous, game changing decision would be made against us.
This isn't true of any other team. That really isn't right.
I will feel the same on Saturday. Man Utd get decisions against us routinely, game after game, that smell to high heaven.
I genuinely don't want to get into a paranoid, conspiracy fearing headspace but years of this nonsense has got me there.
It's like the old saying, just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you. I even said to my wife before the game that we would get done by some dodgy decision here, and lo and behold what happens?
I do think for once though that it might run in our favour this weekend. The officials will be aware that we are fuming over last night, a 5:30 kick-off on Saturday night means I suspect the crowd will be even more 'boisterous' than usual, and if there are any dodgy decisions it will spark pandemonium. For once I think Manure will get what's rightly coming to them on Saturday. Doesn't change the fact that we won't win the FA Cup for another year.
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Wonder what would have happened to Kidderminster's bundled goal if it was at OT
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Hope you don't mind me posting but that was absolutely disgusting last night. 4 minutes to find a clear and obvious error? I find it so wrong that it can only be used at premier league grounds. That goal would count at our stadium in the same competition, how is that right?
I thought you guys were great last night i would certainly be excited as a Villa fan as looks like Gerrard knows what he wants and needs already and with the players linked you could have a great few years ahead.
On a side note what's up with John McGinn doesn't look the same this season, is he struggling with a niggle or something
Sure, you've probably gathered that we're not overly chuffed with what happened last night.
John McGinn has been excellent largely this season. Sometimes maybe he tries to do too much to gets us going but he's been one of our more consistent players.
He needs to rein in the Hollywood pass a bit though for sure.
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Some teams have decisions dissected minutely in their favour, those against given a cursory glance. You know which teams we are talking about.
I said this after the Liverpool game. The officials know that if they give a borderline decision against the Sky clubs it'll be dissected in minute detail whereas one in their favour will get a cursory nod of approval.
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We're all seething about the chalked off goal, let's not forget how many times goofy fuckface and fatty Shaw got away with yellow cards before getting one, yet Ramsey was straight in the book for his first foul.
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If you had to keep VAR (and it should be dumped in a landfill imo) then the obvious solution is taking away its use by the same people who gave us Fergie time before VAR. And that is never gonna happen.
Honestly just give it to random neutral fans, who sit there in Stockley Park with a copy of the rules. At least we'd get some bias against the twats for once.
yeah I call it the "playing Subbuteo with yourself" problem. No matter how unbiased you tried to be as a kid, the team you wanted to win invariably did. VAR just amplifies that problem because they're away from action and more importantly no players can get at them or boo them for 90 minutes, while the ref just stands there and goes "not me guv"
Great analogy.
I loved Subbuteo as a kid, my dad glued the pitch onto a board and we play matches together.
Sadly he died during this time and I spent endless matches playing games by myself and doing exactly what you described.
It wasn't even Unconscious bias it was definitely deliberate.
ah man. I'm gonna have that image of you playing alone as a kid stuck in my head for the rest of the day :( : I just couldn't get anyone willing to play the bobbins (or no friends, one or the other)
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We're all seething about the chalked off goal, let's not forget how many times goofy fuckface and fatty Shaw got away with yellow cards before getting one, yet Ramsey was straight in the book for his first foul.
yeah, bunch of cloggers basically,
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We're all seething about the chalked off goal, let's not forget how many times goofy fuckface and fatty Shaw got away with yellow cards before getting one, yet Ramsey was straight in the book for his first foul.
yeah, bunch of cloggers basically,
Same thing happened a couple of years back in the 2-2 draw, they were lining up to kick Joe without once being carded.
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I thought they were very physical and of course Oliver let them get away with it. Sometimes we come across as a soft-touch I think which I hope Gerrard will change. Obviously if it was Burnley doing it the media would have been whining about it today.
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I can’t get away from how bad they were and how we let them off the hook, ridiculous disallowed goal notwithstanding. How many Fcukin chances do we need? Ollie is great but he’s never going to be prolific scorer. I would prefer Ings at the minute.
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I can’t get away from how bad they were and how we let them off the hook, ridiculous disallowed goal notwithstanding. How many Fcukin chances do we need? Ollie is great but he’s never going to be prolific scorer. I would prefer Ings at the minute.
Ings played too, though it was hard to tell at times.
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i'm disappointed about last night, but if i was a united fan i wouldn't be happy.
they are a shadow of the team that dominated english football for 20 years, and they are so far off man city it's unreal.
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I can’t get away from how bad they were and how we let them off the hook, ridiculous disallowed goal notwithstanding. How many Fcukin chances do we need? Ollie is great but he’s never going to be prolific scorer. I would prefer Ings at the minute.
Ings played too, though it was hard to tell at times.
Is there a stat out there somewhere that states how many times Ings did actually touch the ball?
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I was also pissed off with our response when Oliver explains his decision for the goal being disallowed. It just seemed a shrug of acceptance from our players. If that had been the other way around (especially if Keane had been the captain) they would of been in the face of the ref and Keane would of let it be known in no uncertain terms that we don’t agree with the decision and let him know that ‘we hope there is no more controversial decisions going against us for the remainder of the game’. This would definitely of increased the pressure on Oliver and possibly us getting the penalty for the whack in the face of Konsa. Utd have always been the masters of intimidation. It’s about time we also wised up.
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I was also pissed off with our response when Oliver explains his decision for the goal being disallowed. It just seemed a shrug of acceptance from our players. If that had been the other way around (especially if Keane had been the captain) they would of been in the face of the ref and Keane would of let it be known in no uncertain terms that we don’t agree with the decision and let him know that ‘we hope there is no more controversial decisions going against us for the remainder of the game’. This would definitely of increased the pressure on Oliver and possibly us getting the penalty for the whack in the face of Konsa. Utd have always been the masters of intimidation. It’s about time we also wised up.
As has been said elsewhere this is where Ashley Young is particularly good. He doesn't take any bullshit and makes that clear on the pitch to whoever needs to know it.
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I can’t get away from how bad they were and how we let them off the hook, ridiculous disallowed goal notwithstanding. How many Fcukin chances do we need? Ollie is great but he’s never going to be prolific scorer. I would prefer Ings at the minute.
I think Ollie could get more goals with better service. A lot of the chances he gets are created by himself like last night.
With better crosses from attacking defenders which Gerrard is trying to get sorted he will score more goals.
im still not Convinced with Ings, if he doesn't score you often forget hes on the pitch. Again this could change with better service, so I would say we should be patient before we get overly critical of either of them.
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If you had to keep VAR (and it should be dumped in a landfill imo) then the obvious solution is taking away its use by the same people who gave us Fergie time before VAR. And that is never gonna happen.
Honestly just give it to random neutral fans, who sit there in Stockley Park with a copy of the rules. At least we'd get some bias against the twats for once.
yeah I call it the "playing Subbuteo with yourself" problem. No matter how unbiased you tried to be as a kid, the team you wanted to win invariably did. VAR just amplifies that problem because they're away from action and more importantly no players can get at them or boo them for 90 minutes, while the ref just stands there and goes "not me guv"
I like this analogy. VAR in a nutshell.
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If you had to keep VAR (and it should be dumped in a landfill imo) then the obvious solution is taking away its use by the same people who gave us Fergie time before VAR. And that is never gonna happen.
Honestly just give it to random neutral fans, who sit there in Stockley Park with a copy of the rules. At least we'd get some bias against the twats for once.
yeah I call it the "playing Subbuteo with yourself" problem. No matter how unbiased you tried to be as a kid, the team you wanted to win invariably did. VAR just amplifies that problem because they're away from action and more importantly no players can get at them or boo them for 90 minutes, while the ref just stands there and goes "not me guv"
I like this analogy. VAR in a nutshell.
god i used to cheat like fuck
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Has anyone ever seen it happen? Because I dont recall a single instance. As soon as they're invited over to the side of the pitch, you just know there's a change coming.
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If you had to keep VAR (and it should be dumped in a landfill imo) then the obvious solution is taking away its use by the same people who gave us Fergie time before VAR. And that is never gonna happen.
Honestly just give it to random neutral fans, who sit there in Stockley Park with a copy of the rules. At least we'd get some bias against the twats for once.
yeah I call it the "playing Subbuteo with yourself" problem. No matter how unbiased you tried to be as a kid, the team you wanted to win invariably did. VAR just amplifies that problem because they're away from action and more importantly no players can get at them or boo them for 90 minutes, while the ref just stands there and goes "not me guv"
I don't like the challenging of officials in sport, but it is becoming more and more apparent that we are not playing on an even playing field in the Premier League and decisions are costing us.
Steven Gerrard is a very high profile figure in English football and his views and opinions are going to attract attention. Although I thought he handled himself well after the game, a small part of me wanted to see him challenge Oliver on the pitch and the officials in the post match interviews, as if to say "we aren't going to accept this anymore".
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I can’t get away from how bad they were and how we let them off the hook, ridiculous disallowed goal notwithstanding. How many Fcukin chances do we need? Ollie is great but he’s never going to be prolific scorer. I would prefer Ings at the minute.
Ings played too, though it was hard to tell at times.
Neither one of them seems comfortable playing with the other. Ings is more clinical. Watkins more physical. They are both frustrating watches at the moment.
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Palace at home last boxing day..... I think.
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I can’t get away from how bad they were and how we let them off the hook, ridiculous disallowed goal notwithstanding. How many Fcukin chances do we need? Ollie is great but he’s never going to be prolific scorer. I would prefer Ings at the minute.
Ings played too, though it was hard to tell at times.
Neither one of them seems comfortable playing with the other. Ings is more clinical. Watkins more physical. They are both frustrating watches at the moment.
Yes they seem to be in each other positions and not linking up enough . Ings running the channels and watkins roaming the box
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I can’t get away from how bad they were and how we let them off the hook, ridiculous disallowed goal notwithstanding. How many Fcukin chances do we need? Ollie is great but he’s never going to be prolific scorer. I would prefer Ings at the minute.
Agree with most of that. Not the Ings bit but yeah, disallowed goal aside, how come we didn't score more? We were so much better than them.
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Controversial view, but the more I watch the incident, the more I think it was actually obstruction by Ramsey. He doesn't just stand his ground he moves towards Cavani and actually puts his hands up too, all starting from an offside position. But if the ref saw it and waved play on, then he should stick to his guns.
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Has anyone ever seen it happen? Because I dont recall a single instance. As soon as they're invited over to the side of the pitch, you just know there's a change coming.
Hence the cheer from their lot when he set off to look.
I'm sure we've been on the receiving end of a decision that if they'd rolled the footage back to the challenge immediately before would have gone in our favour.
The fact the VAR is run by the same people as stand in the middle shows it's shit as there's no integrity.
The more time that passes the more you notice the commentators, co-commentators and studio summarisers desperate for Liverpool and ManUtd in particular to do well. Lots of little comments, last night 'the ManUtd roar' and moving into the lush green of the Old Trafford pitch, or something similar. It's shite.
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I wonder how much money was gambled on a 50:50 decision across Asia last night in that 3 minute 40 second gambling window?
Best league in the world.
I would have mailed the deeds to my house and stuck it on 'NO GOAL PEASANTS!'
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The only real positive from last night will be a very hostile Villa Park on Saturday.
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Has anyone ever seen it happen? Because I dont recall a single instance. As soon as they're invited over to the side of the pitch, you just know there's a change coming.
Hence the cheer from their lot when he set off to look.
I'm sure we've been on the receiving end of a decision that if they'd rolled the footage back to the challenge immediately before would have gone in our favour.
The fact the VAR is run by the same people as stand in the middle shows it's shit as there's no integrity.
The more time that passes the more you notice the commentators, co-commentators and studio summarisers desperate for Liverpool and ManUtd in particular to do well. Lots of little comments, last night 'the ManUtd roar' and moving into the lush green of the Old Trafford pitch, or something similar. It's shite.
I noticed that. I think it was "The Old Trafford roar" at some point when they'd actually stopped taking selfies for a minute to make a modest amount of noise.
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The roar of entitled wankers.
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The defending for the manure goal was amateurish!
Almost as amateurish as the VAR decision?
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Konsa and Mings need to improve, and sharpish, or they'll be next on board the replacement express.
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We're all seething about the chalked off goal, let's not forget how many times goofy fuckface and fatty Shaw got away with yellow cards before getting one, yet Ramsey was straight in the book for his first foul.
Yup, I was seething about that. How can a ref give a yellow so early and then not continue giving them, to ensure consistency?! Effing inconsistency is beyond incompetent.
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Has anyone ever seen it happen? Because I dont recall a single instance. As soon as they're invited over to the side of the pitch, you just know there's a change coming.
Hence the cheer from their lot when he set off to look.
I'm sure we've been on the receiving end of a decision that if they'd rolled the footage back to the challenge immediately before would have gone in our favour.
The fact the VAR is run by the same people as stand in the middle shows it's shit as there's no integrity.
The more time that passes the more you notice the commentators, co-commentators and studio summarisers desperate for Liverpool and ManUtd in particular to do well. Lots of little comments, last night 'the ManUtd roar' and moving into the lush green of the Old Trafford pitch, or something similar. It's shite.
Exactly this. It’s particularly bad when Liverpool are on but almost as bad with Man U. It’s just awful
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There is systemic bias within refereeing in this country, they should be fucked off. Says it all that David Ellery, the biggest fussy twat of yesteryear, is all powerful at the head of it.
& Mike Riley was a poor man’s Elleray….& look what role that idiot holds now
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Konsa and Mings need to improve, and sharpish, or they'll be next on board the replacement express.
I don’t see that being our centre back partnership next season & possibly surprisingly I see it being Konsa that is replaced, Mings cops for any criticism that is flying around yet I don’t see a lot between their performance levels this season other than Mings has a voice & a presence on the pitch.
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Has anyone ever seen it happen? Because I dont recall a single instance. As soon as they're invited over to the side of the pitch, you just know there's a change coming.
It happened v Palace last boxing day.
Someone from their team went down in the box, ref gave nothing but was encouraged to go for a look at the screen but decided after looking at a few replays he was still right and stuck with goal kick.
That's still a minority decision though as 99% get given as pens or red cards when they go for second view.
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My apologies to start with if I don’t know who I may upset. But what can we fans do about the situation with VAR & Manure. I sit as an old bloke season ticket holder in the Witton Lane and will be there Saturday. But I get so pxxxed off with Manure ( like many others ) lording it over VP.
I did notice the Villa away fans chant “ you are not fit to referee “ which was commented by BBC commentators .
Is it possible for The Holte End to start a chant about the injustice of obvious bias towards the Sky 6 favourites. Especially as it is Televised to the football fans sitting on their backsides somewhere in the world.
Perhaps this should go in “ rant” topics . Thanks for allowing me to get my rant over.
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Has anyone ever seen it happen? Because I dont recall a single instance. As soon as they're invited over to the side of the pitch, you just know there's a change coming.
Hence the cheer from their lot when he set off to look.
I'm sure we've been on the receiving end of a decision that if they'd rolled the footage back to the challenge immediately before would have gone in our favour.
The fact the VAR is run by the same people as stand in the middle shows it's shit as there's no integrity.
The more time that passes the more you notice the commentators, co-commentators and studio summarisers desperate for Liverpool and ManUtd in particular to do well. Lots of little comments, last night 'the ManUtd roar' and moving into the lush green of the Old Trafford pitch, or something similar. It's shite.
I noticed that. I think it was "The Old Trafford roar" at some point when they'd actually stopped taking selfies for a minute to make a modest amount of noise.
I commented at the time that one united fan caught taking a selfie was so ugly he shouldn't have been shown on tv as kids and women will have been watching the game.
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Has anyone ever seen it happen? Because I dont recall a single instance. As soon as they're invited over to the side of the pitch, you just know there's a change coming.
Hence the cheer from their lot when he set off to look.
I'm sure we've been on the receiving end of a decision that if they'd rolled the footage back to the challenge immediately before would have gone in our favour.
The fact the VAR is run by the same people as stand in the middle shows it's shit as there's no integrity.
The more time that passes the more you notice the commentators, co-commentators and studio summarisers desperate for Liverpool and ManUtd in particular to do well. Lots of little comments, last night 'the ManUtd roar' and moving into the lush green of the Old Trafford pitch, or something similar. It's shite.
I noticed that. I think it was "The Old Trafford roar" at some point when they'd actually stopped taking selfies for a minute to make a modest amount of noise.
I commented at the time that one united fan caught taking a selfie was so ugly he shouldn't have been shown on tv as kids and women will have been watching the game.
You could almost see the phone backing away
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As a matter of interest, how many times has a ref reviewed a decision on the screen and said, "Nah, I'm happy with my original decision thanks"?
Has anyone ever seen it happen? Because I dont recall a single instance. As soon as they're invited over to the side of the pitch, you just know there's a change coming.
Hence the cheer from their lot when he set off to look.
I'm sure we've been on the receiving end of a decision that if they'd rolled the footage back to the challenge immediately before would have gone in our favour.
The fact the VAR is run by the same people as stand in the middle shows it's shit as there's no integrity.
The more time that passes the more you notice the commentators, co-commentators and studio summarisers desperate for Liverpool and ManUtd in particular to do well. Lots of little comments, last night 'the ManUtd roar' and moving into the lush green of the Old Trafford pitch, or something similar. It's shite.
Exactly this. It’s particularly bad when Liverpool are on but almost as bad with Man U. It’s just awful
Any sense of neutrality has completely gone out of the coverage, especially on SKY. Most Manchester United games have Gary Neville on co-commentary and most Liverpool ones have Carragher.
I have a lot of time Dion Dublin, but he was terrible last night and sounded like an excited competition winner.
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Absolutely infuriating
Thought we played really well and apart from a goal we looked bright and Buendia looked very creative. Need to start taking our chances and learn to be switched on at the back for 90 minutes.
Hopefully we get something Saturday or it has been a dreadful few weeks
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I was also pissed off with our response when Oliver explains his decision for the goal being disallowed. It just seemed a shrug of acceptance from our players. If that had been the other way around (especially if Keane had been the captain) they would of been in the face of the ref and Keane would of let it be known in no uncertain terms that we don’t agree with the decision and let him know that ‘we hope there is no more controversial decisions going against us for the remainder of the game’. This would definitely of increased the pressure on Oliver and possibly us getting the penalty for the whack in the face of Konsa. Utd have always been the masters of intimidation. It’s about time we also wised up.
I may be an old romantic but I like to think that such behaviour is not in the Villa tradition.
What we need is referees with cojones like medicine balls who stand up to player and crowd shithousing.
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Like everyone on here, still absolutely seething about last nights result, and agree with pretty much everything that’s been said already.
I must say, I know we’ve had our fair share of miserable players, but Rashford and Bruno look like they’re thoroughly hating the game right now. I also thought Greenwood looked very average, considering he looked untouchable a season or so ago. I really do hope this is Man Utd on a steady downward trajectory, as they looked dreadful at times.
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Please Villa - just smash the fuckingbastardcheatingcunts on Saturday
If we cannot be wound up for the game and suitably motivated to give extra after that shit show of officiating and cheating by them - then we never will
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How about on Saturday, at around the 3min35s mark (or whatever it was), the whole ground erupts into a chorus of "You can stick your fucking VAR up your arse!", followed by someone kicking that pitchside monitor into orbit!?
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I was also pissed off with our response when Oliver explains his decision for the goal being disallowed. It just seemed a shrug of acceptance from our players. If that had been the other way around (especially if Keane had been the captain) they would of been in the face of the ref and Keane would of let it be known in no uncertain terms that we don’t agree with the decision and let him know that ‘we hope there is no more controversial decisions going against us for the remainder of the game’. This would definitely of increased the pressure on Oliver and possibly us getting the penalty for the whack in the face of Konsa. Utd have always been the masters of intimidation. It’s about time we also wised up.
I may be an old romantic but I like to think that such behaviour is not in the Villa tradition.
I'd say we need to start adding it. We've been plucky losers for too long and nobody else is playing by the rules of fairness.
I've said this before but both on and off the pitch we do not do enough to put pressure on officials to make them afraid of making an incorrect decision against us. Sky, forget about it because they only tend to use ex-players from the Sky 6 clubs. But there are other avenues we could go down.
I was disappointed both Mings and Gerrard didn't push the decision more last night. If you're not drawing attention to it, it quickly goes out of mind. This has been happening for far too long that it stinks. It's not an anomaly.
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Spot on Leon, imagine Roy Keane would have more to say about it then our lot, time to grow some and stop taking this crap
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Spot on Leon, imagine Roy Keane would have more to say about it then our lot, time to grow some and stop taking this crap
It's no different than what you'd see at work or in life. If you know somebody is going to moan or kick up a fuss about a decision, then you put more effort in to making sure you're correct. It's basic psychology.
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The thing is you can see it happening again on Saturday. They are not even trying to hide the favouritism these days. Penalty would be my guess as they haven't had one of those against us since well September.
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The thing is you can see it happening again on Saturday. They are not even trying to hide the favouritism these days. Penalty would be my guess as they haven't had one of those against us since well September.
We've got to change; we've got to have players, manager, club officials, all piling on the pressure when decisions are made. And we've got to start drawing attention to decisions. We can't rely on the system because we know it doesn't work.
We should be educating our players and manager on the rules so that they can directly challenge the referee during and after the game. Then, tell the media what the referee said during the game because we're getting no transparency as to why decisions are made. For home games, we need to show replays of bad decisions on the big screens whether it's allowed or not to whip the fans and our own players up when they see faults. And we need to continually draw attention to that fact over and over and over again as to why we don't hear what is being discussed. The media will lap up the controversy as it means that they don't have to do any work. Give them the soundbites. Give them details as to what the referee has said on the pitch. VAR is not going to change so we have to put the pressure on the officials to make sure they are afraid on making the wrong decision. I do not care one bit if it makes us disliked because nobody gives a damn right now when we're playing ball.
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Apart obviously from the Mr Oliver's decision to rule out a perfectly good goal, the only real disappointments were our defending for the goal and the last 10 minutes or so, when we were no longer an attacking threat, otherwise we played some lovely stuff, totally dominating United. Feel more comfortable of us finally beating them at VP on Saturday, than I have for a long time.
Having said all that it's now 65 years and still counting!
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I thought it was an opportunity for Gerrard to go absolutely ballistic. Let the ref send him up into the stand and make a complete scene. Maybe that's a bit old school but Oliver might think twice again about throwing us under the bus like that again.
From what I recall from last night, we had a good 10-15 min spell after it on the pitch but couldn't get the goal.
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We have used the Brian Clough method of being respectful to the referees over the years, now perhaps as LeonW as suggested get into the referees face allegedly as per Fergie and the rest of his “professional” entourage .
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I thought it was an opportunity for Gerrard to go absolutely ballistic. Let the ref send him up into the stand and make a complete scene. Maybe that's a bit old school but Oliver might think twice again about throwing us under the bus like that again.
From what I recall from last night, we had a good 10-15 min spell after it on the pitch but couldn't get the goal.
Nah, we can blame VAR and the referee but if he did that it deflects from the problem and makes it all about him.
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We have used the Brian Clough method of being respectful to the referees over the years, now perhaps as LeonW as suggested get into the referees face allegedly as per Fergie and the rest of his “professional” entourage .
I don't like it but I'm also sick of us being in this position over and over again ad nauseum.
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I thought it was an opportunity for Gerrard to go absolutely ballistic. Let the ref send him up into the stand and make a complete scene. Maybe that's a bit old school but Oliver might think twice again about throwing us under the bus like that again.
From what I recall from last night, we had a good 10-15 min spell after it on the pitch but couldn't get the goal.
Nah, we can blame VAR and the referee but if he did that it deflects from the problem and makes it all about him.
Plus, he's trying to raise standards and expectations of the players, he's not going to give them the excuse of blaming VAR. We should have been out of sight by half time.
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Absolutely. We just need to win. It was a shit decision, but it didn't make the result, that was our profligate attacks.
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After some therapeutic, if virtual, kicking the catI thought we played really well last night (except for the goal, natch). Particularly the midfield, tackling well and passing quickly and passing forward.
Having said that, it’s hard not to feel aggrieved at the disallowed goal. That was a complete clusterfuck by the officials.
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I honestly think we’ll hammer them on Saturday, and im more or less still teetotal this month. Sanson in for McGinn, Coutinhio in for Ings id guess
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Please Villa - just smash the fuckingbastardcheatingcunts on Saturday
If we cannot be wound up for the game and suitably motivated to give extra after that shit show of officiating and cheating by them - then we never will
Amen.
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With it being a 5.30 pm KO and a lot of pissed up people - another unjust decision could well result in disorder.
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I'd like to ask everybody to give a little extra to tough guy McTominay on Saturday, was so brave in flying in on Ramsey when he was stuck in the corner then giving him a mouthful while he was down on the ground.
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With it being a 5.30 pm KO and a lot of pissed up people - another unjust decision could well result in disorder.
Nah, can't see Ol' Red Nose traveling down for this one.
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The thing is you can see it happening again on Saturday. They are not even trying to hide the favouritism these days. Penalty would be my guess as they haven't had one of those against us since well September.
We've got to change; we've got to have players, manager, club officials, all piling on the pressure when decisions are made. And we've got to start drawing attention to decisions. We can't rely on the system because we know it doesn't work.
We should be educating our players and manager on the rules so that they can directly challenge the referee during and after the game. Then, tell the media what the referee said during the game because we're getting no transparency as to why decisions are made. For home games, we need to show replays of bad decisions on the big screens whether it's allowed or not to whip the fans and our own players up when they see faults. And we need to continually draw attention to that fact over and over and over again as to why we don't hear what is being discussed. The media will lap up the controversy as it means that they don't have to do any work. Give them the soundbites. Give them details as to what the referee has said on the pitch. VAR is not going to change so we have to put the pressure on the officials to make sure they are afraid on making the wrong decision. I do not care one bit if it makes us disliked because nobody gives a damn right now when we're playing ball.
Oh for the halcyon days of JT managing the games and the awe struck referees in the Championship.
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With it being a 5.30 pm KO and a lot of pissed up people - another unjust decision could well result in disorder.
Nah, can't see Ol' Red Nose traveling down for this one.
Just in case, how are the stocks of Bell's in Brum post-Xmas?
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Oh
https://twitter.com/luke__tommo/status/1480668735086243845?s=21
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I'd like to ask everybody to give a little extra to tough guy McTominay on Saturday, was so brave in flying in on Ramsey when he was stuck in the corner then giving him a mouthful while he was down on the ground.
This will have to wait until next season. He's suspended.
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Oh
https://twitter.com/luke__tommo/status/1480668735086243845?s=21
That's been posted before. I believe it's rather old. The Expedia sponsorship was about ten years ago.
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His fondness for Man Utd must still be a thing.
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The Fiver's amusing take on it plus letter o' the day.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/11/the-fiver-manchester-united-aston-villa-fa-cup?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Oh
https://twitter.com/luke__tommo/status/1480668735086243845?s=21
I know the lad that's posted that
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The defending for the manure goal was amateurish!
Almost as amateurish as the VAR decision?
Certainly could have done better but I thought it was an excellent goal from their pov
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(https://i.ibb.co/8PKr8dz/D392-B3-B1-4-E7-D-42-A3-98-DE-F437-A8-ECB9-C3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8PKr8dz)
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Couldn't afford to give a bloodied Konsa a helping hand or a VAR check late on.. but no issue smiling with Sir Alex pre-match and throwing an arm around Fraud.
Color me shocked.
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I was going to post earlier, during the game I saw the assistant Ref " touch " their full back a couple of times as he was about to take a throw in.
I thought, maybe they are friends
Now i see this picture Hmmm
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I was going to post earlier, during the game I saw the assistant Ref " touch " their full back a couple of times as he was about to take a throw in.
I thought, maybe they are friends
Now i see this picture Hmmm
I clocked that too. I mentioned it last night on a whattsapp group. I thought it was a bit weird as well.
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The referee for Saturday
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FI0nAtsX0AEciaa?format=jpg&name=large)
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The referee for Saturday
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FI0nAtsX0AEciaa?format=jpg&name=large)
Is this real? Although it really wouldn't surprise me. FFS
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Nope, completely fake.
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Is it a prerequisite for prospective professional referees to carry a look of a slightly hapless soul?
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Can anybody give me the name of a Premier League referee that would have us all feeling confident for a game like this? I never see anybody post "Oh it's so and so, ace, they'll be fair and not take any shit from Newton Heath, Chelsea, and the like".
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Mark Halsey shame he’s not involved anymore.
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Mark Halsey shame he’s not involved anymore.
I take it we're into the realms of surrealist humour now?
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Mike Dean? Kevin Friend?
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Mark Halsey shame he’s not involved anymore.
Yes he could dummy a FK for Ronaldo like he did for Henry in front of the Holte.
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https://twitter.com/Anton1963/status/1480925560553496587 (https://twitter.com/Anton1963/status/1480925560553496587)
Breaking Transfer News...Man United have rejected Aston Villa's £25,000,000 bid for referee Michael Oliver
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A few days on and i am still raging about that fecking ref and VAR team.
I know we should expect it (we even joke about when the pen is going to come as its that obvious) but it still sticks in me for days after.
We really need to be fired up from the off on sat and smash these pricks. You watch if we come out firing then we will start to pick up yellows to stop us and if not we will lose a man - i can see it now
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A few days on and i am still raging about that fecking ref and VAR team.
I know we should expect it (we even joke about when the pen is going to come as its that obvious) but it still sticks in me for days after.
We really need to be fired up from the off on sat and smash these pricks. You watch if we come out firing then we will start to pick up yellows to stop us and if not we will lose a man - i can see it now
Its funny as when i was up there on Monday night i couldn’t really tell what happened, bad habits where i tend to follow the ball, my son on the other hand had seen Cavani go flying. So i just felt sort of deflated when it was disallowed, as there was confusion about why it was disallowed (fans held in contempt with lack of info a wider issue).
Last night i watched the game back on the iplayer and two things struck me. I still thought we were the better team, but in reality we had about a 15 spell in the first half and about 20 mins in the second half when were on top, outside of this, not a lot happened.
The second thing was the VAR decision. Gerard doesn’t want to make excuses and i really liked his ‘we’re nearly good enough’ anslysis, so as supporters we probably shouldn’t grasp onto excuses either. But…but that was fecking disgusting. Not that they even pulled up Ramsey for standing still, but that wasn’t what VAR were looking at in the first place, it was the third option to cancel the goal.
Im usually quite calm, but i’m getting hyped for Saturday already, i hope we batter them ala boxing day 1989, with God and Platt destroying them.
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A few days on and i am still raging about that fecking ref and VAR team.
I know we should expect it (we even joke about when the pen is going to come as its that obvious) but it still sticks in me for days after.
We really need to be fired up from the off on sat and smash these pricks. You watch if we come out firing then we will start to pick up yellows to stop us and if not we will lose a man - i can see it now
Its funny as when i was up there on Monday night i couldn’t really tell what happened, bad habits where i tend to follow the ball, my son on the other hand had seen Cavani go flying. So i just felt sort of deflated when it was disallowed, as there was confusion about why it was disallowed (fans held in contempt with lack of info a wider issue).
Last night i watched the game back on the iplayer and two things struck me. I still thought we were the better team, but in reality we had about a 15 spell in the first half and about 20 mins in the second half when were on top, outside of this, not a lot happened.
The second thing was the VAR decision. Gerard doesn’t want to make excuses and i really liked his ‘we’re nearly good enough’ anslysis, so as supporters we probably shouldn’t grasp onto excuses either. But…but that was fecking disgusting. Not that they even pulled up Ramsey for standing still, but that wasn’t what VAR were looking at in the first place, it was the third option to cancel the goal.
Im usually quite calm, but i’m getting hyped for Saturday already, i hope we batter them ala boxing day 1989, with God and Platt destroying them.
Same. I've had supporters of all other clubs message me since the game saying what a disgrace it was. Even my Man Utd supporting mate (a season ticket holder for 15 years) who normally will justify everything they do has kept a very low profile on the group chat. Even when I was slating the decision from this most recent game and the previous 4 games he didn't bite. Told me everything.
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Same. I've had supporters of all other clubs message me since the game saying what a disgrace it was. Even my Man Utd supporting mate (a season ticket holder for 15 years) who normally will justify everything they do has kept a very low profile on the group chat. Even when I was slating the decision from this most recent game and the previous 4 games he didn't bite. Told me everything.
[/quote]
My Man U supporting friend simply wrote "A travesty!"
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Same. I've had supporters of all other clubs message me since the game saying what a disgrace it was. Even my Man Utd supporting mate (a season ticket holder for 15 years) who normally will justify everything they do has kept a very low profile on the group chat. Even when I was slating the decision from this most recent game and the previous 4 games he didn't bite. Told me everything.
My Man U supporting friend simply wrote "A travesty!"
[/quote]
Did he mean it was a travesty that it was given in the first place? These Manc reds and their red glasses.
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Same. I've had supporters of all other clubs message me since the game saying what a disgrace it was. Even my Man Utd supporting mate (a season ticket holder for 15 years) who normally will justify everything they do has kept a very low profile on the group chat. Even when I was slating the decision from this most recent game and the previous 4 games he didn't bite. Told me everything.
My Man U supporting friend simply wrote "A travesty!"
Did he mean it was a travesty that it was given in the first place? These Manc reds and their red glasses.
[/quote]
He meant the result
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Same. I've had supporters of all other clubs message me since the game saying what a disgrace it was. Even my Man Utd supporting mate (a season ticket holder for 15 years) who normally will justify everything they do has kept a very low profile on the group chat. Even when I was slating the decision from this most recent game and the previous 4 games he didn't bite. Told me everything.
My Man U supporting friend simply wrote "A travesty!"
Did he mean it was a travesty that it was given in the first place? These Manc reds and their red glasses.
He meant the result
[/quote]
I was certainly that. Seeing some of our players on their knees at the end says everything. However, we do need to be more clinical and we need to manage the officials better.
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Fuck these fucking fuckers as never have a fucking team of fuckers deserve a right real fucking as these cnuts
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Delighted to announce that my ticket for this game arrived this morning
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I applaud all those who went to this game. Watching on the telly, I was fuming at the decision. (Carol had to move the table with the wine glasses out of the way, just in case they were disturbed by a flailing boot.) To have paid good money to watch that farce would have been unbearable!
I also wish to apologise for calling Oliver the best ref in the Prem a couple of years back. That's two years running now he's stuffed us at the Theatre of Cheats.
My compliments to those with a sense of fair play who are objective enough to explain why they thought the goal was correctly disallowed. Even if they are right, why does it take five fouls from Luke Shaw before he can be booked. Ramsey commits one and is immediately shown the yellow card. The bias could hardly be more blatant.