Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on January 02, 2022, 03:55:22 PM
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Back to the usual. Banter club. Sick to death of losing to utterly mediocre teams it’s been going on for too long.
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You'll never take the villa out of aston villa no matter the owners, the manager or the players
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That was poor.
Honeymoon period is definitely over.
Not good enough, we really should have come away with a least a point from that.
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Hate playing these.
COmfortable for half an hour and then completely brainless second half.
Buendia MOTM.
Think this was first match where Gerrard got things wrong second half. Odd choice of subs, surely Archer or Carney could've got on for last 10 minutes?
One of those games that has just passed us by and leaves us rooted in mid table scrap.
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Bollocks.
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They wanted it more. We had the better players they had heart and desire. The owners have stated that they want us challenging for Europe. Gerrard must now see the size of the task ahead of him.
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Knew it was going to be a tough game as Brentford never give in but we only have ourselves to blame for that one. A half decent striker would be on my shopping list.
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Let's not dress this up or find mitigation.
Brentford were awful and we lost to them. We have too many nothing players. Constantly giving the ball away, little creativity, no urgency.
11 defeats out of 19 games tells it's own story.
A horrible, horrible defeat.
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Brentford didn't even play well. They didn't need to.
Absolute load of old cock.
For all the possession in the first half, their keeper wasn't exactly overworked throughout. It's one thing not getting shots off against Liverpool or Chelsea, quite another against a side like that.
The Brentford defence and keeper could have had the deckchairs out for most of the second half. All the play was in front of them, going nowhere slowly. Rubbish.
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Fuck off.
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Tripe.
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After a really positive start under Gerrard we have morphed into Aston Villa again last couple of games.
This squad needs to run to stand still if that makes sense. Ie, we are capable of beating most teams if we're 100% on it, but can't really win even easy games if we're at 75% or so. 3 points chucked in the bin today.
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Got what we deserved for fannying round after we scored. Trezeguet's moment of stupidity at the end epitomises what total clusterfuck that was. Brainless and totally unprofessional
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Wank
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We are so one-paced. More dynamic full backs are a must.
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Absolute Disgrace. Poor from both Teams like a Championship pre-season friendly
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Happy New Year.
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Not good enough. By more difficult in the premier league than against Ross County.
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Dog shit. Hause, targett and trez absolutely awful.
They played in midweek and still looked better than us.
Some serious investment needed. Time to get rid of the dog shit like hause aeg and trez get skme real quality in.
Absolute shambles
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Shite, bunch of knobs.
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Traore ! Never seen someone give the ball away so much. Trez - embarrassing dive at the end. Targett - too weak especially without Mings by him.
Martinez was good as per usual but he might think it's time to move on sadly.
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I'll always back the team if they put a full shift in and lose but that was inexcusable. Too many piss poor players stealing a living for far too long. Would be more than happy if Traore and Trez never play for the club again, that play acting by Trez was shameful. I hope Gerrard tears apart in the dressing room, if he doesn't then he joins a long list of managers who just accept mediocrity
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That loss is on the the players.
Everything was good with the exception of creating chances and driving forward in the final third. I thought Traore, Luiz and Hause struggled today but weren’t deserving of some of the nonsense being spouted in the match thread - really disappointed in some of the folks on here who collectively would shift half of the starting eleven out this transfer window by the sound of it.
I think had Watkins, Bailey and Mings been fit we would’ve fared better. I am disappointed as anyone because for the first 40 minutes we were utterly dominant.
We need to keep improving and hopefully get a few decent signings in this window.
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Let’s see what SG says about that pile of shit.
“Sorry, I should have hooked Bert in the first half, I shouldn’t have brought on Trez as he isn’t match fit and will be fucking off to Africa next week and I’m sorry to the youth players for not showing more faith in you. I really fucked up and not acceptable considering I am supposed to know what I’m doing.”
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On that evidence we need another four or five players to be anywhere near challenging for anything.
Trezeguet can fcuk off as well. A chance to cross in the last minute and he does that. He should be apologising to everyone in the dressing room.
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Well at least Gerrard knows our problems now. Targett, Hause not good enough as they allowed the only two chances they had to become goals which turned out to be enough to win the game
I saw enough to know that we have the basis of a decent team but if we really want to go to the next level then we have got to invest again as the kids are not quite there yet
Smith Rowe and Ward Prowse and potentially keeping Jack would have made such a difference to this side
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Bad result, but thought the performance was decent enough for long periods of the game. Just a bit too sloppy and not urgent enough to go on and win the game when the opportunity was there to do so.
In this formation, the creativity has to come from the two inverted wingers and the full-backs. All four in those positions are quite erratic and waste a lot of chances to deliver in the final third.
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We are so one-paced. More dynamic full backs are a must.
I think that's pretty much where Gerrard is too. Matt Targett didn't do himself many favours today and that's without discussing his lack of ability to cross a ball.
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Traore ! Never seen someone give the ball away so much. Trez - embarrassing dive at the end. Targett - too weak especially without Mings by him.
Martinez was good as per usual but he might think it's time to move on sadly.
It was a good reaction save.
But for a keeper of his high standard he shouldn't be palming it straight back into the path of the guy who's just had the shot. Not helped by the muppets around him today, admittedly.
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Nice skills from Buendia for our goal, lovely finish from Ings.
Ramsey struggled to hold the ball and Sanson was shite when coming on. Traore flatters and Hause was all over the shop.
The bench was made up of young fellas, good lads, but a big ask for them.
We need new blood, half the first team squad are just not good enough.
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Got what we deserved for fannying round after we scored. Trezeguet's moment of stupidity at the end epitomises what total clusterfuck that was. Brainless and totally unprofessional
I would fine Trez for that. Embarrassed himself and embarrassed the club. We have so many camera angles to look at now how can players not realise this? Honestly footballers are so fucking thick sometimes.
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Absolute Disgrace. Poor from both Teams like a Championship pre-season friendly
Welcome back.
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Absolute Disgrace. Poor from both Teams like a Championship pre-season friendly
Bang on. A poor quality games between two poor teams.
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Piss poor, thought we got over that type o performance, looking at today team you are talking about needing 4 or 5 players to up grade, don't mind losing if we played well, but this looks like a performance under Dean smith before he left
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That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
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I lost count of the times a promising villa attack was ended by Traore or Targett. We need Young, Bailey and Watkins back asap.
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We looked good for half an hour but faded badly.
Good:
Buendia
Martinez
Maybe Ings
Ok:
Maybe Ings
Ramsey
Konsa
Cash
Shite:
Targett
Hause
McGinn
Luiz
Utter Shite:
Traore
Trezeguet
Anonymous:
Sanson
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By far and away the better side all game. Hause poor on 2 occasions and it leads to 2 goals
We always lose here and it always rains.
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Let's not dress this up or find mitigation.
Brentford were awful and we lost to them. We have too many nothing players. Constantly giving the ball away, little creativity, no urgency.
11 defeats out of 19 games tells it's own story.
A horrible, horrible defeat.
That’s how I see it.
They didn’t ‘want it more’ or anything like that.
We should have had more than enough to win but we didn’t have the nous, fluidly, pace and speed of thought.
Misplaced passes, giving the ball away cheaply and not quality from 30 yards out.
The team looked like a team where everyone was recovering from either being ill or on the piss last night.
And trezeguet can fuck right off, the cheating bastard.
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Wet.
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That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
This is on Gerrard at least as much as any player.
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Not good enough. We’ve lost some defensive resilience of late.
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I lost count of the times a promising villa attack was ended by Traore or Targett. We need Young, Bailey and Watkins back asap.
Suspect we need a bit more than that but there is no need to panic, we have plenty of good players and I think we now have a good manager who is only a handful of games in with no preseason
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Piss poor, thought we got over that type o performance, looking at today team you are talking about needing 4 or 5 players to up grade, don't mind losing if we played well, but this looks like a performance under Dean smith before he left
Yep very much a Dean game.
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Is SJM available for Man United in the FAC, or does he miss the PL game?
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Sloppiness shouldn't be acceptable at this level.
I hate saying this, but it struck me the past four seasons (2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 and now 21-22) that we seem to be less up for it heading into January? The form always seems to drop off this time of year (I know we had Covid last year but still, I got a distinct 'job's done' vibe off some of our players last Jan-Feb-March). Again, this isn't really acceptable. We need to be up for it at all times.
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By far and away the better side all game. Hause poor on 2 occasions and it leads to 2 goals
We always lose here and it always rains.
Is the right assessment
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That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
This is on Gerrard at least as much as any player.
I fully expect him to take ownership over this defeat. It lands on all of them not to have got something from this game.
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Piss poor, thought we got over that type o performance, looking at today team you are talking about needing 4 or 5 players to up grade, don't mind losing if we played well, but this looks like a performance under Dean smith before he left
Yep very much a Dean game.
Maybe Dean wasn't the problem?
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Let’s hope that some of our average squad players find a club that is willing to pay them as much as Aston Villa do?
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If I’m honest I was expecting a tougher game from Brentford but we kept them quiet for 80mins of that game. How we lost it I will never know!
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That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
This is on Gerrard at least as much as any player.
It’s completely on SG. We could all see who and when needed changing and he didn’t do it.
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That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
This is on Gerrard at least as much as any player.
Who is gerrard suppose to choose? I mean look at this squad its down to the bare bones with a 16 year old on the bench.
At least gerrard knows where we need players and who is shit *coughs* trez
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Piss poor, thought we got over that type o performance, looking at today team you are talking about needing 4 or 5 players to up grade, don't mind losing if we played well, but this looks like a performance under Dean smith before he left
Yep very much a Dean game.
Absolutely what I thought at the end.
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That was utter bollocks against a team who weren’t interested in attacking and just parked the bus hoping for the odd chance going forwards.
Hause - there’s a reason he’s back up to Mings and you saw every reason why today.
Targett - in constant acres of space on the left and never made any use of the space he had and his delivery is meh.
Luiz - sloppy and slow
Buendia - sublime to the The useless in virtually every phase of play.
Trez- did the hard work then utterly embarrasses himself what a clown
Traore - utterly frustrating and wasteful.
Cash - limited in the final third.
No pace to our play, everyone needs 2 or 3 touches, honeymoon over and I hope Gerrard is telling a number of these players a few home truths. Utterly unacceptable from numerous of them today.
That cheque book needs to be out as there are several players who need replacing.
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When Luiz and SJM are so ineffectual in the same match, the outcome is fairly inevitable.
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By far and away the better side all game. Hause poor on 2 occasions and it leads to 2 goals
We always lose here and it always rains.
We’ve never played there before
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Brentford take 4 pts off us for the fourth successive season we've played them. It's extremely hard to take. I haven't been so livid after a game for ages.
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Hause isn’t good enough sadly.
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By far and away the better side all game. Hause poor on 2 occasions and it leads to 2 goals
We always lose here and it always rains.
We’ve never played there before
Alright, we always lose in Brentford.
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That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
This is on Gerrard at least as much as any player.
Who is gerrard suppose to choose? I mean look at this squad its down to the bare bones with a 16 year old on the bench.
At least gerrard knows where we need players and who is shit *coughs* trez
Did Trezeguet pick himself to come on? We have excellent kids who could've been selected in Carney and JPB, but the manager chose not to use them.
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If you look at the table, most clubs are roughly where they were forecast to be at the start of the season.
We're much of a mushness (pun intended) with 6-7 other clubs in mid-table where 2-3 wins can take you up to 6th or 7th, possibly 5th if one of the Greedy6 has a run of poor results.
West Ham appear to be the one mid-tabler showing that they have what it takes to go higher than perhaps they were expected to be, with Leicester showing the reverse trend.
Think we all need to take a reality pill. We were a work in progress at the start of the season and remain so.
Looking at our recent signings:
Emi2- coming good.
Ings - an Ingigma up front - doesn't run as much as Ollie and is a different player, requiring a different approach/style?
Bailey - jury still out because of injuries.
Sanson - beginning to show why he was signed - will improve with more minutes.
Let's see what January brings in terms of newcomers.
Looking on the brightside - we've still got the Holy Grail to aim for (at least until next Monday).
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That was utter bollocks against a team who weren’t interested in attacking and just parked the bus hoping for the odd chance going forwards.
Hause - there’s a reason he’s back up to Mings and you saw every reason why today.
Targett - in constant acres of space on the left and never made any use of the space he had and his delivery is meh.
Luiz - sloppy and slow
Buendia - sublime to the The useless in virtually every phase of play.
Trez- did the hard work then utterly embarrasses himself what a clown
Traore - utterly frustrating and wasteful.
Cash - limited in the final third.
No pace to our play, everyone needs 2 or 3 touches, honeymoon over and I hope Gerrard is telling a number of these players a few home truths. Utterly unacceptable from numerous of them today.
That cheque book needs to be out as there are several players who need replacing.
I pretty much agree with every word of this, I think you’ve nailed it.
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The better team for most of the game, but that counts for nowt, they had only 2 chances in the game and took them both. Trezeguet you are an absolute disgrace.
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This will happen sometimes, they're a jammy side and I don't hold that against them, they know how to spoil and harry and can be impressively ruthless with finishing what chances they get. For us, time to get up in the morning, keep working hard and trust that the approach will yield more good than bad going forward.
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When Luiz and SJM are so ineffectual in the same match, the outcome is fairly inevitable.
Yes.
The pair of them are capable of really good games but can turn in anonymous shows as well.
Even then we shouldn't have lost. We were mediocre, but Brentford weren't even that for most of the game, and their moments were assisted by our wasteful play.
Playing Traore and then Trezeguet seemed an odd choice, considering neither are going to be around for 2 or 3 weeks.
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That was a massive disappointment, both in terms of performance and result.
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That was a massive disappointment, both in terms of performance and result.
Result yes performance no
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This will happen sometimes, they're a jammy side and I don't hold that against them, they know how to spoil and harry and can be impressively ruthless with finishing what chances they get. For us, time to get up in the morning, keep working hard and trust that the approach will yield more good than bad going forward.
Of course I agree here Monty but I’m so incandescent with annoyance I won’t reach your Zen like level of calm until at least tomorrow morning.
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Hause isn’t good enough sadly.
The goals were the fault of both central defenders. Mings was missed badly.
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Piss poor, thought we got over that type o performance, looking at today team you are talking about needing 4 or 5 players to up grade, don't mind losing if we played well, but this looks like a performance under Dean smith before he left
Yep very much a Dean game.
Exactly what I thought. I hoped we might have seen the end of these Dean Smith type performances but we clearly still have a few in the system. I doubt we will see how a Steven Gerrard team performs, on a regular basis, until next season after a pre-season and he's sorted out his squad.
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Targett poorest by far today, and for all the plaudits Cash gets, can you remember the last time he put a decent cross in, because I can’t!? Last RB we had that could cross a ball was Elmo.
Can’t believe we’ve lost that. Until their equaliser (against run of play), there was only going to be one winner and we fucked it up admirably.
Won’t get too carried away with the performance/result as it’s only one game…. The test will be how we respond next game, as well as the quality/positions of any new signings between now and then.
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Better side and should have got a point at least out of that. The reaction on here is as ever way over the top.
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Playing Traore and then Trezeguet seemed an odd choice, considering neither are going to be around for 2 or 3 weeks.
Judging by the bench, I think it was bare bones today and normally we wouldn't have seen them. Even so, the team we put out was hardly the U-18s.
Throw everything at the Cup please.
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Whos that coach that need a haircut that is always standing around murmuring in the ear to our head coach whenever we play like shit?
Was the same with the last days of smith and when Gerrad came in he was sitting down in the background. Now he is back and yapping, pointing and giving directions like he was head coach or his assistant.
Didnt we get rid of all the Smith entourage?
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Let's not dress this up or find mitigation.
Brentford were awful and we lost to them. We have too many nothing players. Constantly giving the ball away, little creativity, no urgency.
11 defeats out of 19 games tells it's own story.
A horrible, horrible defeat.
That’s how I see it.
They didn’t ‘want it more’ or anything like that.
We should have had more than enough to win but we didn’t have the nous, fluidly, pace and speed of thought.
Misplaced passes, giving the ball away cheaply and not quality from 30 yards out.
The team looked like a team where everyone was recovering from either being ill or on the piss last night.
And trezeguet can fuck right off, the cheating bastard.
I totally agree about Trez. Besides his embarrassing theatrics today he's just not good enough for what we need right now. You say they didn't want it more but I saw different. Last ditch tackles,scrapping in midfield for every loose ball. Ghoddo their left back was so determined to win every tackle, wanted every decision and epitomised their desire to win. Compare that to our left backs limp performance and it sums it up for me. Maybe we "wanted" it just as much as they did but we did not match their determination to achieve it.
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Puzzled by our second half.Seemed like we were happy to play for a draw with not enough bodies in the box. Expecting a reaction against Utd.
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What happened to the old fashioned grinding out a draw. It’s either win or lose these days.
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That is fans for you, when we win the team are great, when we lose everything is shit
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This will happen sometimes, they're a jammy side and I don't hold that against them, they know how to spoil and harry and can be impressively ruthless with finishing what chances they get. For us, time to get up in the morning, keep working hard and trust that the approach will yield more good than bad going forward.
Of course I agree here Monty but I’m so incandescent with annoyance I won’t reach your Zen like level of calm until at least tomorrow morning.
My super secret formula is to get slightly drunk and eat a really nice ham sandwich.
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Soooo frustrating!!
- Targett gave the ball away with regularity.
- Hause has positioning problems: both goals were really his to deal with – the first was an issue of ball-watching; the second saw his reflexes and alertness wanting.
- Luiz had a stinker, giving away the ball far too frequently.
- Traore should have been subbed earlier than he was.
- Meatball had a quiet game; didn’t assert himself on it at all.
- Buendia became increasingly ineffectual and his passing became a liability as the game wore on.
- Why the hell did Trez come on? – we were crying out for a player who can beat his man and create space – Chuky, Archer or P-B would have been a better selection.
- Not capitalising on possession often comes back to haunt you – it did again.
Poor game management, IMHO.
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First half I thought we played some ok stuff, nothing too spectacular but were not in any trouble from Brentford. The occasional sloppiness we displayed before HT was on full display in the second where we also seemed to revert to our don't pass, don't move, give the ball away style. It was particularly disappointing at the end to see Trez opt for a dive rather than pursue his cut inside that had unbalanced the defender.
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Missed opportunity through naivety. 1st time we've never taken maximum points from these at their place in the top division. Poor end to 1st half and generally poor 2nd half despite some half chances. Ramsey lost their man for 1st goal who put in decent cross. Poor substitution bringing Trez on. Diabolical dive at the end. Youngsters on the bench and El Ghazi must be very disappointed not to even be given a chance. Buendia easily motm. Hause good in the air but doesn't read the game well and generally uncertain when the ball is at his feet. Splashing more good money after our recent spends is not the sole answer. Much to improve on all round. UTV!
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Better side and should have got a point at least out of that. The reaction on here is as ever way over the top.
Nobodies disagreeing we were the better side Ads or that we should have got a point or more but it’s the sloppy individual performances that are being criticised. I don’t mind losing but the poor play by several individuals has really ticked me off.
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Targett and Hause were poor today. You can’t have Hause as the only back up centre half as he isn’t good enough so doesn’t put any pressure on those ahead of him. Same with targett.
Still should have won today and thought they got a bit of luck when the ball dropped to the lad after Emi saved his first shot and the the Ings chance the opposite happened.
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That is fans for you, when we win the team are great, when we lose everything is shit
Won 7, lost 11.
We've got a long way to go.
Brentford were lousy today so I'm not sure what reaction is expected?
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Has to be on Gerrard. Brentford are rubbish and they found a way to win. Was anyone suprised by the late goal.
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Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
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What a disappointment. In control for so much of it. Well on top after the goal but we started pissing about a bit too much, getting sloppy, overplaying, thinking we're Ron/Riv era brazil ffs.
Trouble is, once again we're not creating enough. We're good up until the final third but that final decision, final ball is often wrong. If we can get some uninterrupted training and games we can hopefully sort it, but Gerrard will also need to be ruthless in the window as far as sacking people off and we need 2-3 good additions.
On the plus side, our goal was top quality. Ings was a lot sharper today. Beundia showed quality (but ran out of puff in the second half, and is also still very sloppy at times). Their first goal was excellent. We were sloppy in defence second half, we had warnings but their second goal was annoyingly avoidable.
We were short on options sadly. Hause isn't up to par beyond being a fourth choice. We need a CH because we also need someone as good as Esri and Ty to push both of them. We need cover for Targett too. I felt like he was tiring toward the end, and inevitably will feel pressure being the only option (and Ash should only be emergency cover at LB).
Another aspect which is clear. It's gonna have to be Ings or Watkins. Both look better without the other.
Traore was frustrating but I suppose you have to account for fitness and ring rust. You could say the same about Trezeguet but that dive was inexcusably pathetic.
And I also think missing the Burnley and Leeds games killed the Gerrard bounce. We had a lot of momentum after Norwich and could really have done with facing Burnley and Leeds either side of Chelsea. Maybe it's overstating, but it could be a season killer. We're not in danger but at the same time, we're now a country mile from maybe a top 8. 4-6 points off Leeds/Burnley would have kept us on an upward keel. We're now in the difficult position of needing a positive result after what is likely gonna be a Utd defeat. I also think we're missing Nakamba a lot. Douglas is very lackadaisical at times.
What was playing out as an easy game has been thrown away.
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Let's not dress this up or find mitigation.
Brentford were awful and we lost to them. We have too many nothing players. Constantly giving the ball away, little creativity, no urgency.
11 defeats out of 19 games tells it's own story.
A horrible, horrible defeat.
That’s how I see it.
They didn’t ‘want it more’ or anything like that.
We should have had more than enough to win but we didn’t have the nous, fluidly, pace and speed of thought.
Misplaced passes, giving the ball away cheaply and not quality from 30 yards out.
The team looked like a team where everyone was recovering from either being ill or on the piss last night.
And trezeguet can fuck right off, the cheating bastard.
I totally agree about Trez. Besides his embarrassing theatrics today he's just not good enough for what we need right now. You say they didn't want it more but I saw different. Last ditch tackles,scrapping in midfield for every loose ball. Ghoddo their left back was so determined to win every tackle, wanted every decision and epitomised their desire to win. Compare that to our left backs limp performance and it sums it up for me. Maybe we "wanted" it just as much as they did but we did not match their determination to achieve it.
Yep, totally
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Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
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Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
Absolutely. I was just going off the ones he deemed good enough to start today.
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Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Yes, these four stand out as needing to be upgraded.
I'm sure it will happen too.
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That is fans for you, when we win the team are great, when we lose everything is shit
Won 7, lost 11.
We've got a long way to go.
Brentford were lousy today so I'm not sure what reaction is expected?
We lost to likes of Charlton in MON's first season who got relegated yet overall direction or travel in long run was good up to a certain point.
Overall I've been happy with what I've seen so far under Gerrard. Even first 30 minutes today we scored a good goal and created some other decent moves.
Next hour was a wake up call though and probably means an extra signing in next two weeks.
-
We are talking about upgrades on those players but we are not good enough to have four or five first teamers on the bench. It’s bad enough with Ings sometimes not getting a game.
-
I thought we were lethargic and lacking the intensity we showed before covid interrupted things. Hardly surprising when we have got three players trying to get back full fitness and sharpness and an in form striker missing.
I won't be wetting the bed just yet.
-
Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Keep targett as backup.
I wouldnt sell luiz but other ones can gi alomg with trez and el ghazi
-
Traore leaving the pitch and into the dugout like an all conquering hero was laughable.
-
Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
Absolutely. I was just going off the ones he deemed good enough to start today.
Cash is also not quite good enough.
-
I blame Alan Smith who just before they scored their first said that we were completely dominant and not letting Brentford get a look in (words to that effect). On a serious note, even when we were completely dominant, we looked over complacent and not as sharp as we have done.
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
-
Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
Absolutely. I was just going off the ones he deemed good enough to start today.
Cash is also not quite good enough.
I quite like Cash. I think he’s been unlucky that whoever has played in front of him have been awful at helping him out.
-
We are so one-paced. More dynamic full backs are a must.
Thought the same, despite all our decent play with the ball we never really threatened to cut them open. Little or no quality out wide throughout. Bit of an overreaction here on the general performance. We were much the better team I thought against a very limited Brentford team. Hard to believe we lost but we lacked ambition even when leading.
Martinez 7, Cash 6, Konsa 7, Hause 6, Targett 5, Luiz 7, McGinn 6, Ramsey 6 (Sanson 6), Buendia 8, Ings 7, Traore 5 (Trez 6).
-
I thought we were petty decent in the first half. They didn't do anything other than score and our midfield deserve some credit for that. Second half wasn't good enough but we still shouldn't have lost. I wasn't sure about the subs either although I can just about understand the Sanson one. Buendia was great.
-
Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
Absolutely. I was just going off the ones he deemed good enough to start today.
Cash is also not quite good enough.
I quite like Cash. I think he’s been unlucky that whoever has played in front of him have been awful at helping him out.
I like him but his crosses are mostly shite and he often gets done and gives pens and dangerous free kicks.
-
Let's be brutally honest. With the players we have we are a mid table team. We arent going to win anything but just hope we dont get dragged into the relegation fight.
-
Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
Absolutely. I was just going off the ones he deemed good enough to start today.
Cash is also not quite good enough.
I agree Cash should be in that list.
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
-
Let's be brutally honest. With the players we have we are a mid table team. We arent going to win anything but just hope we dont get dragged into the relegation fight.
Yeah but you can be mid table bottom half or mid table top half you’re probably talking about half a dozen places at least
With the players we have we shouldn’t be losing to Brentford or be below them in the table
-
We were comfortably the better team, without creating much. We got slower as the game went on. They played to keep it tight & caught us on the turnover when we got sloppy.
It’s a sickening to lose to this shite & we’ve been like it for too long. Plucky losers to the top sides & unlucky losers to shite sides.
Gerrard will be learning more about players as we go along. Much of the squad aren’t good enough or are not the right fit for how we want to play. It’s going to take a few transfer windows to correct the squad. It’ll be interesting to see where he starts.
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
If we want to be a top half team then we either coach these players to improve to that level or replace them with ones that are better.
Gerrard will want to bring his own players in as all managers do and the weakest ones are the most likely to be chopped.
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
I think the question is are these the players that will take AVFC onto a European challenging spot? I think on what we saw today the answer is no.
-
Targett was good last season, and has looked good for most of Gerrard's first few games. But if LB is an area we've targeted for competition at least, he's done himself no favours with the last two performances.
Luiz reads the game well when he's on it, snubs out danger and has an almost McGrath-esque coolness about him when the mood takes. But too causal in possession for a DM.
Traore still rusty after a long lay off.
For me the biggest area to address is still up top. We need a different type of forward to the ones we currently possess; either a genuine speed merchant who can find the gaps in behind. Or a Carew or Benteke-type, who can hold the ball up and give centre halves a different problem from the bench.
After a bright hour or so, Ings faded badly in the second half.
-
I'm mystified as to why Traore wasn't hooked until the 80th minute or thereabouts; and as to why Trez was given the 15 or so minutes as a sub, especially when he's about to go away to the Afcon Cup. I can only assume that El Ghazi is on his way out to another club, if it's West Ham I'd be concerned, as they must then think they can make a proper player out of him (just as they have with the likes of Benrahma and Bowen).
On the whole that really was a terrible result against an average team that actually played quite badly.
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
I like Brentford - they have EVERY RIGHT to play like they do given their resources, just as we would if we did that versus against the top 3. We were just too wet (and now the dust has settled, a bit unlucky) do deal with them and their 12th man of a crowd, who it’s hard to deny make a right racket. Really soft-arsed defeat that, but given our record there utterly predictable.
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
I think the question is are these the players that will take AVFC onto a European challenging spot? I think on what we saw today the answer is no.
Luiz is good enough.
Cash Targett and Hause keep for squad players
The rest can go.
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
They are at best mid level Premier League players.
-
Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
Absolutely. I was just going off the ones he deemed good enough to start today.
Cash is also not quite good enough.
I quite like Cash. I think he’s been unlucky that whoever has played in front of him have been awful at helping him out.
I think Luiz is one of our very best players.
Hause is good enough to be a useful back up and BTW seems to be a very likeable character.
Trez, E Ghazi, Targett and Cash (was hopeful about him when he arrived) hasent showed enough potential to be in the top team we are aiming to be IMO
Bert might be one coming off the bench when we need a trick / goal
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
Upgraded? Absolutely yes. And this will happen.
Check out our first eleven after the next 3 or 4 transfer windows and it will be clear.
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
I think the question is are these the players that will take AVFC onto a European challenging spot? I think on what we saw today the answer is no.
We had been doing quite well over our last 6 league games with the same group of players. No one was complaining after our away win at Old Trafford, or our impressive win again Leicester.
Like, come on guys. This is football. We shouldn’t be throwing some grass in the air to see which way the wind is blowing.
We were the better team today but just didn’t get the goals.
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
Actually, if you take away Cash and Luiz that list isn’t far off if we want to progress to the next level. I’ve always thought we’ve got a pretty good starting 11 but you lose one or two of them and we are always going to struggle
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
Exactly the conversation me and my son had with the Trez incident.
Thought we dominated the first 35/40 mins, Beundia pulling the strings and McGinn and Ramsey dominated the midfield. Thought McGinn faded after this and Ramsey seemed to lose some edge after he was booked, i also think he was a bit half hearted blocking the cross for the first goal and this might have bern related to the booking as well. Maybe the fact he was on a yellow was the reason Gerard took him off, cant think of another reason.
Wasnt it only Traores first start this season? Think he deserves a break.
Brentford doubled up on Cash and he just couldnt get to the byline, Targett was wasteful. Ings did well i thought, but everything went through the middle too much.
On the whole i just feel flat rather than angry. Off to Old Trafford a week tomorrow with my son, i hope Gerard plays a strong side and they play much better than today .
-
Wonder if anyone has told Hause where Row Z is yet?
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
I like Brentford - they have EVERY RIGHT to play like they do given their resources, just as we would if we did that versus against the top 3. We were just too wet (and now the dust has settled, a bit unlucky) do deal with them and their 12th man of a crowd, who it’s hard to deny make a right racket. Really soft-arsed defeat that, but given our record there utterly predictable.
Puke.
Fuck them. They are our bogey side so i detest them. In the championship they always got jammy wins/draws out of us And again this season.
-
Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
Absolutely. I was just going off the ones he deemed good enough to start today.
Quick question what is the issue with wanting El Ghazi gone? We aren't going to get to many who contribute what he does that are happy yo be a squad player. In fact, looking at some of the other signings Bailey, barkley, troare to name a few, we aren't going to get starters contributing his numbers (either through lack of form or injuries). He's a relatively fit lad, keeps professional and has contributed some important goals and/or assists.
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
I like Brentford - they have EVERY RIGHT to play like they do given their resources, just as we would if we did that versus against the top 3. We were just too wet (and now the dust has settled, a bit unlucky) do deal with them and their 12th man of a crowd, who it’s hard to deny make a right racket. Really soft-arsed defeat that, but given our record there utterly predictable.
Thought their support was about as good as their team today (ie not very) until the late winner.
Was expecting the sort of racket that Stoke and Palarse fans made in that initial honeymoon period coming up.
They probably expected to beat us, based on the last five years. Fast-tracked to complacency already.
-
That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
This is on Gerrard at least as much as any player.
Who is gerrard suppose to choose? I mean look at this squad its down to the bare bones with a 16 year old on the bench.
At least gerrard knows where we need players and who is shit *coughs* trez
Tree was clearly not the right call - Chuck got an assist against Norwich - Archer has shown he knows where the game is. Maybe tees could have come on for 1 of the full backs who both showed very little going forward
-
I like el ghazi. I'd have brought him on for Traore.
-
Disappointing.
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
I think the question is are these the players that will take AVFC onto a European challenging spot? I think on what we saw today the answer is no.
We had been doing quite well over our last 6 league games with the same group of players. No one was complaining after our away win at Old Trafford, or our impressive win again Leicester.
Like, come on guys. This is football. We shouldn’t be throwing some grass in the air to see which way the wind is blowing.
We were the better team today but just didn’t get the goals.
but we hardly troubled their goalkeeper until we were losing and Brentford play like this every week.
I thought regardless of some nice midfield play we were impotent and got what you get when you play like we did today.
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
I like Brentford - they have EVERY RIGHT to play like they do given their resources, just as we would if we did that versus against the top 3. We were just too wet (and now the dust has settled, a bit unlucky) do deal with them and their 12th man of a crowd, who it’s hard to deny make a right racket. Really soft-arsed defeat that, but given our record there utterly predictable.
Fair enough
Of course they’ve got every right I still don’t have to like it
I don’t like it when we’ve played like that in past seasons either
But as my post said I blame us for today’s result no one else
-
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
The worst part was he’s done really well, got himself into a great position- just cross the bloody ball. No situational awareness that it’s the last seconds and you just need to put it in the mixer!
-
Okay, so if I’m reading this post-match thread correctly..
OUT
Target
Cash
Hause
Trezeguet
Traore
El Ghazi
Luiz
Some of you need to get a grip.
I think that’s a very good list of players not good enough. You have done well to not put swear words in front of most of them,
-
Sat in a Clapham pub.Just can't believe we lost.
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
I like Brentford - they have EVERY RIGHT to play like they do given their resources, just as we would if we did that versus against the top 3. We were just too wet (and now the dust has settled, a bit unlucky) do deal with them and their 12th man of a crowd, who it’s hard to deny make a right racket. Really soft-arsed defeat that, but given our record there utterly predictable.
Puke.
Fuck them. They are our bogey side so i detest them. In the championship they always got jammy wins/draws out of us And again this season.
I read earlier that we haven’t beaten them at their place since 1953!
That’s one heck of a bogey team
-
That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
This is on Gerrard at least as much as any player.
Who is gerrard suppose to choose? I mean look at this squad its down to the bare bones with a 16 year old on the bench.
At least gerrard knows where we need players and who is shit *coughs* trez
That makes no sense. If he knows they are shit then why would he play them? Sorry but I don't believe that Gerrard would be that stupid.
-
Disgusted at the antics of Trezeguet. I am unhappy with the result but these kind of acts need to be punished.
In terms of the performance all fart and no shit. How many times have we dominated teams and don’t score when we’re on top. For all the possession we didn’t really trouble their goal as much as we should. Hope Gerrard gets supported in the Jan window.
-
We struggled most of the second half. SJM should have dominated midfield but was poor, Traore is a luxury player, not what we need at the moment, if we are to improve both fullbacks need replacing, in todays football they have to supply an attacking option neither of ours do.
-
https://www.skysports.com/football/brentford-vs-a-villa/report/446489
-
Watching the Chelsea/Liverpool game to get the taste of the Brentford game out of my eyes.
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
I like Brentford - they have EVERY RIGHT to play like they do given their resources, just as we would if we did that versus against the top 3. We were just too wet (and now the dust has settled, a bit unlucky) do deal with them and their 12th man of a crowd, who it’s hard to deny make a right racket. Really soft-arsed defeat that, but given our record there utterly predictable.
Thought their support was about as good as their team today (ie not very) until the late winner.
Was expecting the sort of racket that Stoke and Palarse fans made in that initial honeymoon period coming up.
They probably expected to beat us, based on the last five years. Fast-tracked to complacency already.
The sound must be playing up on my TV. Hardly a peep out of them besides when they scored. They seemed to put all their effort into contesting every decision that didn't go their way. At one point it was laughable how many fat middle aged men were out of there seats going ballistic because they thought we gained a few yards for a throw in and when they thought Dougie had placed the ball 10mm outside the corner quadrant I thought a few of them would self combust. No there's no small club done good romance for me just a niggly little club who seem to delight in getting one over us for some reason.
-
That’s a terrible defeat. Seems our latest Covid shutdown has really taken the momentum away from us. Instead of playing Burnley at home after an easy win at Norwich it’s all come apart a bit. Somewhat understandable given the circumstances. But it’s also revealing to the manager just who might make it and who needs to be replaced as the window opens. We were very good at times today and conceded a very poor goal right before the break. After that it was an even game until their goal. This won’t sit well with Gerrard.
This is on Gerrard at least as much as any player.
Who is gerrard suppose to choose? I mean look at this squad its down to the bare bones with a 16 year old on the bench.
At least gerrard knows where we need players and who is shit *coughs* trez
That makes no sense. If he knows they are shit then why would he play them? Sorry but I don't believe that Gerrard would be that stupid.
So it makes no sense playing players to see how shit they are? I
How is he suppose to know they are shit if he dont play them? Only way he is going to know is by assessing them in games as training only shows you so much. That makese sense to me
-
I don’t like Brentford remind me of Wimbledon
But today’s result was all of our own doing
We can have no excuses
When Trez went down in the box at the end I said to my young lad oooh VAR will look at that You never know
Then when it was showed on the replay we both just shook our heads in total fucking embarrassment
I like Brentford - they have EVERY RIGHT to play like they do given their resources, just as we would if we did that versus against the top 3. We were just too wet (and now the dust has settled, a bit unlucky) do deal with them and their 12th man of a crowd, who it’s hard to deny make a right racket. Really soft-arsed defeat that, but given our record there utterly predictable.
Thought their support was about as good as their team today (ie not very) until the late winner.
Was expecting the sort of racket that Stoke and Palarse fans made in that initial honeymoon period coming up.
They probably expected to beat us, based on the last five years. Fast-tracked to complacency already.
The sound must be playing up on my TV. Hardly a peep out of them besides when they scored. They seemed to put all their effort into contesting every decision that didn't go their way. At one point it was laughable how many fat middle aged men were out of there seats going ballistic because they thought we gained a few yards for a throw in and when they thought Dougie had placed the ball 10mm outside the corner quadrant I thought a few of them would self combust. No there's no small club done good romance for me just a niggly little club who seem to delight in getting one over us for some reason.
I thought something was wrong with the sound but it wasn’t. Their fans just quiet.
-
We struggled most of the second half. SJM should have dominated midfield but was poor, Traore is a luxury player, not what we need at the moment, if we are to improve both fullbacks need replacing, in todays football they have to supply an attacking option neither of ours do.
Mr. Blind Crossfield-Pass, as I know him.
-
We simply have to move McGinn further forward. He was anonymous second half but showed his quality with that through ball to Ings that really he should have scored from. Fair enough it's his first game today in ages but I have little faith in Traore anyway and none in Trez. Try McGinn there instead.
-
Post match comments - OS
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1477686877385863182?s=21
-
I’ve always liked Traoré
But have never felt Trez would be good enough
I still haven’t change my mind
-
Post match comments - OS
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1477686877385863182?s=21
Thanks I've been waiting to hear what he said post match. I like the fact that he tells it straight. He knows what needs to be done but the million dollar question is will he be able to achieve it. I really really hope so.
-
I’ve always liked Traoré
But have never felt Trez would be good enough
I still haven’t change my mind
If we genuinely aspire to European football as the owners seem to want then both of these two are miles away from being good enough.
-
Post match comments - OS
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1477686877385863182?s=21
I don’t really agree with that - the goals were too easy but I think our play on the final 3rd was as much to blame
-
I’ve always liked Traoré
But have never felt Trez would be good enough
I still haven’t change my mind
Same. Traore needs to get into his rhythm, but he can make things happen. Trez is a trier at best (a bit too much sometimes, as we saw in injury time today), but not much else.
-
Hate that stat about not beating them since 1953. It's utterly meaningless if you've played about a dozen games against them in that time.
-
Had Mings played today we'd have at least got a point. Lack of leadership at the back. Hause had a mare. Also, we really miss Nakamba. Signings needed fast!
-
I’ve always liked Traoré
But have never felt Trez would be good enough
I still haven’t change my mind
If we genuinely aspire to European football as the owners seem to want then both of these two are miles away from being good enough.
I still like him though
even after reading your comment
-
I’ve always liked Traoré
But have never felt Trez would be good enough
I still haven’t change my mind
If we genuinely aspire to European football as the owners seem to want then both of these two are miles away from being good enough.
I still like him though
even after reading your comment
Ha, yes, we all have our favourites. Nakamba for me.
-
I’ve always liked Traoré
But have never felt Trez would be good enough
I still haven’t change my mind
If we genuinely aspire to European football as the owners seem to want then both of these two are miles away from being good enough.
I still like him though
even after reading your comment
I think Bert is a good player to have in any squad - happy to see him stay. I think Fred can go, AEG if we can get cash for him. Think Bert vales into the upgrade but keep for backup category, along with Targett, Cash and possibly Sanson
-
Sobering thought of the day. We've lost more games than Newcastle now and only Norwich and Watford have lost more
-
Sobering thought of the day. We've lost more games than Newcastle now and only Norwich and Watford have lost more
I need a drink now.
-
Sobering thought of the day. We've lost more games than Newcastle now and only Norwich and Watford have lost more
We've won a lot more though. That tends to help.
-
I’ve always liked Traoré
But have never felt Trez would be good enough
I still haven’t change my mind
If we genuinely aspire to European football as the owners seem to want then both of these two are miles away from being good enough.
I still like him though
even after reading your comment
Ha, yes, we all have our favourites. Nakamba for me.
Frank Carradus for me
-
I’ve always liked Traoré
But have never felt Trez would be good enough
I still haven’t change my mind
If we genuinely aspire to European football as the owners seem to want then both of these two are miles away from being good enough.
I still like him though
even after reading your comment
Ha, yes, we all have our favourites. Nakamba for me.
Frank Carradus for me
Mark Delaney for me.
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I'd like to see new players signed first before letting any go and weakening the squad. For instance today, Tuanzebe not there as cover with Mings suspended - talking to Napoli?. Watkins apparently has Covid so Davis was let go too early - only Ings there as an experienced forward. We do this all the time.
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Sobering thought of the day. We've lost more games than Newcastle now and only Norwich and Watford have lost more
We've won a lot more though. That tends to help.
Quite right. Just as the league table shows.
That’s another poor second half from us and again while we were on top in the first half we haven’t tested the keeper enough. That’s our biggest issue I think.
One very positive outcome from today is Buendía played very well. I do like him a lot. I thought I substitutions were very uninspiring. I presume he wanted to see what Trez was all about and also wanted Traore to have a decent amount of game time, maybe also protecting Ramsey as well.
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Death and taxes and Aston Villa conceding late fucking Goals.......
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After watching this and reading the comments, I took off my Claret and Blue Glasses.
I can not think who on that performance would get into a top 4 starting 11
Watching Chelsea vs L/pool even Martinez would struggle
A few subs and squad players, that is the problem. we need some seriously better performers
Let go and never miss, Targett, Trarore, Luiz, and Hause
Others could improve with new blood around them
My consolation is that, I think that Gerrard is no fool and must have been promised a war chest.
Better needed across the pitch
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Hate that stat about not beating them since 1953. It's utterly meaningless if you've played about a dozen games against them in that time.
1953 to 2015 zero games
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Post match comments - OS
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1477686877385863182?s=21
Thanks I've been waiting to hear what he said post match. I like the fact that he tells it straight. He knows what needs to be done but the million dollar question is will he be able to achieve it. I really really hope so.
The bit we all hope is that having played at a very level and to a very high intensity; as much as we might have thought he was a prick as a player, we’d all have loved it had he played for us, we want those types of players at the club to compete at the top of the table.
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Should have won that, with all due respect to Brentford: we don't score enough goals to build on a lead, and it's getting boring now.
Apart from that, Happy New Year, everyone!
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Post match comments - OS
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1477686877385863182?s=21
Thanks I've been waiting to hear what he said post match. I like the fact that he tells it straight. He knows what needs to be done but the million dollar question is will he be able to achieve it. I really really hope so.
The bit we all hope is that having played at a very level and to a very high intensity; as much as we might have thought he was a prick as a player, we’d all have loved it had he played for us, we want those types of players at the club to compete at the top of the table.
His playing career is meaningless. If it wasn't we'd have employed Chris Waddle.
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The word I’d use is ‘casual.’ Targett, Luiz and Traore in particular guilty of giving the ball away terribly when under no pressure. I’ll forgive Traore a little as he’s barely played and should have been retired on 60 mins. We need to be far more ruthless and put teams to the sword or we will keep getting punished.
We need three or four January signings if we are to salvage anything from this season, which is a tough ask. And no more Trezeguet please, I’d rather try Archer or Philogene-Bidace.
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Simple things done badly cost us the game. Final ball, crossing, finishing.basic defending. We could have won that at a canter, but we switched off and let them in. Luiz and Hause were very poor. Targett poor. Interesting that the first time we don't have Mings and Young in the squad we make basic errors. A left back, holding mid (we need 2 midfielders and an attacking kid) and a top quality creative forward that scores a few, plays off the striker and knits the game are needed if we want to progress. ASAP.
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Let’s start with the obvious trez your a bad cheat , no excuses. Moving onto the starting 11. No Mings turned the game. Hause was shown up for lack of match practice and sorry to say targett not premiership standard
Buendia, cash, ings, Ramsey and first half Bertie solid performances. Luis not bad in patches
We thought we were going to steam roll them well the team did and we got badly found out
Why was Ramsey subbed made no sense to me.
We go again tomorrow week utfv
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It’s just about getting 40 points now and rebuild for next season.
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The word I’d use is ‘casual.’ Targett, Luiz and Traore in particular guilty of giving the ball away terribly when under no pressure. I’ll forgive Traore a little as he’s barely played and should have been retired on 60 mins. We need to be far more ruthless and put teams to the sword or we will keep getting punished... And no more Trezeguet please, I’d rather try Archer or Philogene-Bidace.
Damn right!
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For the first 40 minutes we were totally in charge. What’s more, I thought some of our passing was excellent.
Yeah we didn’t build on it and casually threw away three points but there are definite signs of improvement and a playing style starting to emerge.
I just think what we are seeing is evidence that some of these players just aren’t good enough for the way he wants us to play.
Chance to start to address that right now, though.
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Totally.
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Hate that stat about not beating them since 1953. It's utterly meaningless if you've played about a dozen games against them in that time.
1953 to 2015 zero games
Agreed but we have played them eight times in recent seasons and won none. Four defeats in a row at their place when we finished above them in two of those seasons and probably will this season. They are undoubtedly a bogey team.
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For the first 40 minutes we were totally in charge. What’s more, I thought some of our passing was excellent.
Yeah we didn’t build on it and casually threw away three points but there are definite signs of improvement and a playing style starting to emerge.
I just think what we are seeing is evidence that some of these players just aren’t good enough for the way he wants us to play.
Chance to start to address that right now, though.
Fair points Paulie.
I felt second half we still dominated the ball, territory and were the only side looking to play the game. Our decision making in the final third was poor though as was the execution of the final ball. We didn't play a percentage ball either.
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Really disappointed by that. We were the better team and then defended poorly to let them back in. I haven’t seen any highlights yet but I thought Targett and Ramsey were at fault for the equaliser and after that we seemed to lose some belief.
Buendia was our best player over 90 minutes and I thought Ings looked sharp too. He and Watkins look much better without the other so choices need to be made there. The above two linked up well which gives me hope, but whilst we had plenty of possession we didn’t work the keeper anywhere near enough.
This was a game where we should have dug in for a point at least and we seriously lack mental toughness. We ararely come from behind to win in the last few years and we regularly lose games we should at least draw. I hope Gerrard toughens us up in this respect because that pisses me up more than individual errors.
Talking of which, I think the second goal came from us losing possession when Konsa (I think) misplaced a header handing possession to one of their players. A few seconds later we had conceded.
A final point: the broadcasters must do a great job in boosting the atmosphere at Brentford. It was very quiet until the last 10 minutes and nothing like what they create on the box / radio.
Another final point: they have multiple screens below the roof inside the away end which I’ve not seen anywhere else. They compensate for the big screen which is on the halfway line, and from my seat in the corner it was was surprisingly patchy.
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Shades of the Wolves game earlier in the season. Better team without being great but our own failings meant we ended up with nothing.
Main positive for me was the way Ings and Buendia linked up in the first half.
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I liked the Ings Nu
Main positive for me was the way Ings and Buendia linked up in the first half.
It was good, but Ings is the only player running into attacking positions and to win games like this when we are dominating possession there has to be more attacking intent. Ramsey SJM Traore and our full backs are always receiving the ball flat and not the other side of the defenders.
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I am actually very annoyed about this casual performance to the point of becoming depressed. Why do they do that to us?☹️
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I am actually very annoyed about this casual performance to the point of becoming depressed. Why do they do that to us?☹️
Noyd as my little kids use to say
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What was clear to me today was there aren’t enough winners in our team, yet again our killer instinct was absent. I’d fully expect this to change pronto once SG rips them a new one tomorrow. I also think we’ll see a very different team line up at Everton in a few weeks.
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I am actually very annoyed about this casual performance to the point of becoming depressed. Why do they do that to us?☹️
At least we're playing Man U away in the Cup on the 10th rather than 'Blue Monday'.
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I am actually very annoyed about this casual performance to the point of becoming depressed. Why do they do that to us?☹️
At least we're playing Man U away in the Cup on the 10th rather than 'Blue Monday'.
And if it wasn't for our misfortune, we'd be a heavenly club today.
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Well, I'm miserable now.
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Wtf is it about fucking brentford???
Why cant we beat these lot? Its frustrating as fuck as we have not once turned up against them
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Typical of Villa to start the New Year off with a shambolic performance like that, i'm still fuming and worried Gerrard thought the first half performance was a positive one. BOTH Teams were absolutely dreadful , it was painful to watch and as I mentioned before like a Pre-Season friendly between two lower end Championship Teams.
Shocking and Disgraceful dive from Trezeguet and he should face a Fine from the Football Club.
Let's hope the Burnley fixture is arranged very soon so we can put the terrible festive period behind us and sign some proper players who are going to put a shift in
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Only read the first couple of pages but seems to be a massive over reaction…again, I’m as disappointed as everyone but let’s see it for what it is.
We’re a few games into a new manager’s stewardship where by and large we’ve played well for long spells in every game, lost who you’d expect us to lose to and this is the first game where the expected result has gone against us.
People saying we need a better centre half and I don’t disagree but realistically Hause normally does a good job and you’re looking at mega bucks for a first choice to come in and demote Mings to first choice back up. A few people wanted to see Hause in the team rather than Mings, people were eager to see Traore, both played, both could have played better, along with most of the others. But because they were crap they should be the first out of the door. Things take time and this is the first bump since Gerrard took over.
Gerrard has rightly been lauded for his subs in most games and today they didn’t come off be it too late or wrong personnel, every sub you make doesn’t come off, it’s the nature of the game, if he gets more right than not he’s doing better than most.
Disappointing that we didn’t make our dominance in the first half count and it took us till the 85th minute to test their keeper which is very poor.
I’ll put this down to teething problems at the start of a promising regime.
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You could put it down to teething troubles if we’d played poorly and lost against a decent team.
However, Brentford were truly, truly shit…and they beat us.
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Only read the first couple of pages but seems to be a massive over reaction…again, I’m as disappointed as everyone but let’s see it for what it is.
We’re a few games into a new manager’s stewardship where by and large we’ve played well for long spells in every game, lost who you’d expect us to lose to and this is the first game where the expected result has gone against us.
People saying we need a better centre half and I don’t disagree but realistically Hause normally does a good job and you’re looking at mega bucks for a first choice to come in and demote Mings to first choice back up. A few people wanted to see Hause in the team rather than Mings, people were eager to see Traore, both played, both could have played better, along with most of the others. But because they were crap they should be the first out of the door. Things take time and this is the first bump since Gerrard took over.
Gerrard has rightly been lauded for his subs in most games and today they didn’t come off be it too late or wrong personnel, every sub you make doesn’t come off, it’s the nature of the game, if he gets more right than not he’s doing better than most.
Disappointing that we didn’t make our dominance in the first half count and it took us till the 85th minute to test their keeper which is very poor.
I’ll put this down to teething problems at the start of a promising regime.
We are seeing it for what it is
We’ve just lost two fucking Brentford again
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Typical of Villa to start the New Year off with a shambolic performance like that, i'm still fuming and worried Gerrard thought the first half performance was a positive one. BOTH Teams were absolutely dreadful , it was painful to watch and as I mentioned before like a Pre-Season friendly between two lower end Championship Teams.
Shocking and Disgraceful dive from Trezeguet and he should face a Fine from the Football Club.
Let's hope the Burnley fixture is arranged very soon so we can put the terrible festive period behind us and sign some proper players who are going to put a shift in
Let's keep some perspective here. A terrible festive season would be following a club with a crumbling stadium a dwindling fan base and owners who couldn't afford to buy out a hairdressing salon.
Fortunately we have mega rich owners and a top manager to ensure we keep our European ambitions on target. The squad will get the investment in the areas that the manager identifies.
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Typical of Villa to start the New Year off with a shambolic performance like that, i'm still fuming and worried Gerrard thought the first half performance was a positive one. BOTH Teams were absolutely dreadful , it was painful to watch and as I mentioned before like a Pre-Season friendly between two lower end Championship Teams.
Shocking and Disgraceful dive from Trezeguet and he should face a Fine from the Football Club.
Let's hope the Burnley fixture is arranged very soon so we can put the terrible festive period behind us and sign some proper players who are going to put a shift in
Should you laugh at a post?
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I am really annoyed with that result. To me, it's a psychological issue. For ten years we have seen too many days like today. We either need to start buying players with stronger mentality or we need better sports psychology.
How often have we had days where we come away with nothing from games where the other side have offered nothing and/or collapsed from a winning position. It didn't seem to happen as much to us as it has in recent seasons going back to just after O'Neill's time.
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Not only have we reverted to some sloppy defending but for all our possession we barely troubled their keeper. We need better concentration at the back and more penetration going forward. The first few games under SG demonstrated both features and he's capable of restoring these qualities. I just hope we see immediate improvement in the games against Newton Heath.
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Typical of Villa to start the New Year off with a shambolic performance like that, i'm still fuming and worried Gerrard thought the first half performance was a positive one. BOTH Teams were absolutely dreadful , it was painful to watch and as I mentioned before like a Pre-Season friendly between two lower end Championship Teams.
Shocking and Disgraceful dive from Trezeguet and he should face a Fine from the Football Club.
Let's hope the Burnley fixture is arranged very soon so we can put the terrible festive period behind us and sign some proper players who are going to put a shift in
Should you laugh at a post?
I think you’d be forgiven in this instance.
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Typical of Villa to start the New Year off with a shambolic performance like that, i'm still fuming and worried Gerrard thought the first half performance was a positive one. BOTH Teams were absolutely dreadful , it was painful to watch and as I mentioned before like a Pre-Season friendly between two lower end Championship Teams.
Shocking and Disgraceful dive from Trezeguet and he should face a Fine from the Football Club.
Let's hope the Burnley fixture is arranged very soon so we can put the terrible festive period behind us and sign some proper players who are going to put a shift in
Should you laugh at a post?
I think you’d be forgiven in this instance.
Oh god Mr positive is in the building.
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It's very rare a result affects my mood for many a year but am livid about today. Three points were on grasp today and, six hours on, we never deserved them, such a dreadful performance. Pissed off isn't the phrase. Gerrard really needs to delete these as Aston villa seems to produce these far too often. We should have won that game at a canter, problem being the players obviously felt that too without putting the effort in to make it happen.
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What was clear to me today was there aren’t enough winners in our team, yet again our killer instinct was absent. I’d fully expect this to change pronto once SG rips them a new one tomorrow. I also think we’ll see a very different team line up at Everton in a few weeks.
It still seems to be in our DNA, the soft underbelly that is Aston Villa. Not enough leadership or players driving the team. Sloppy passages of play, giving the ball away and inevitably an avoidable goal.
At worst we take a point and move on. Feels like a very important few weeks for Gerrard - with new faces hopefully and start shaping a team he can call his own.
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After watching this and reading the comments, I took off my Claret and Blue Glasses.
I can not think who on that performance would get into a top 4 starting 11
Watching Chelsea vs L/pool even Martinez would struggle
You’d rather have (* checks name) Kelleher than Martinez?
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I dont think the performance was dreadful at all.
I think we dominated the ball, territory and chances in a way we seldom do away from home. There are clear signs of an emerging style, with full backs pushed high and a desire to use the ball neatly in a midfield that works as a collective in and out of possession.
There was lots of good interplay, out of possession we pressed well and forced a recycle of the ball quickly and cheaply.
Where I think we struggled was that final ball. There seemed a reluctance for the full backs to cross it. Traore was infuriating in his decision making and seemed to pick the wrong ball or timing throughout the game. Lots of good positions and when that moment of quality was required his execution wasn't there. That was only his 2nd appearance since Chelsea in the cup, which didn't last long.
Ramsey seemed to run out of steam 2nd half, but showed 1st how he has a good turn of pace and desire to punch through gaps with his runs. I wonder if he picked a knock up when he was down 1st half?
I felt that Targett in particular is guilty of not being adventurous enough in his runs and that is likely why we're after a left back who can get up and down. We work the ball well to create pockets of space, he needs to be braver to find to use them.
Hause distribution is too slow. We transition via centre half a lot and he just isn't up to the level needed. Felt Dougie slowed us down a little at times when attacking down the left, but was quicker in transition through the right. A Targett problem.
Sanson didn't have his usual impact when he came on either. The dive from Trez was atrocious and he was largely ineffectual. I think a further inside forward coming in will also be on the agenda with him and El Ghazi likely being off. We probably won't see the best of Bailey till he's had a pre-seaaon. His repeated muscle injuries smack of a lack of fitness, that given he's Bolt levels of quick, isn't something he can remedy on the fly.
Buendia played well again, and managed to buy a couple of free kicks! He also managed to be dispossessed for a rare Berentford attack.
It's frustrating that our mistakes get punished with impunity. If Mings plays today, neither goal happens. Yes Targett fails to win the ball, but aggressive full back play will be a percentage game at times and you have to trust the centre halves. 3 or 4 minutes before half time and Hause having nothing to do (beyond hoofing a lob at Emi that went for a corner) and he just switches off and gives the Brentford player room he should never have.
Hause should clear the ball for the 2nd, but failed.
That little pocket in midfield will almost certainly be remedied in January, giving us 4 8s in Ramsey, McGinn, Sanson and Dougie. Brentford for when Emi saved and when they scored found space that shouldn't have been there.
Buttoning up that pocket will make a huge difference from a midtable side to one capable of knocking on the top 7 or 6.
I cannot fathom the reactions on here, at all. There are plenty of things that require working on, I've highlighted what I see as a few and clearly recruitment is part of the solution. But people saying they're depressed, diabolical performance (and I'm not taking in that twat of a trolls comments) is way overboard.
As an aside I was in a white seat. The ground is compact and tinpot, but uses the space well. No real dramas on the upper concourse beyond the fact the lads serving beers (OUT OF A CAN!!11!! WILMA!) put a head on it the size of Frank Sidebottom. You can park for free within a mile of the ground up Ealing Way. Its the closest and easiest to get to London ground for the Midland and Northern sets. There was also a fight by us. And it rained. It always rains when we go down to Brentford it seems.
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Well said Ads.
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We don't have enough leaders on the pitch and I wonder whether Gerrard is a bit coy about Mings being longer term captain because he wants to sign a couple of players who might be in the running for the armband? We don't have a nasty enough side to us as yet either. Too many passive players. Despite dominating for large parts of the game we still were a bit indecisive around their box, too often choosing to go backwards with the ball than sticking it the middle. We also need a player who can join in much more from midfield and score goals when joining in with the striker. We haven't had one of those for a while, other that that chap we recently sold to that boring lot. Someone earlier hit the nail on the head, we are better to watch now, but will get to a point where the players will demonstrate that they are unable to do what Gerrard wants them to do. He needs to bring in a couple of his own players in this window and steadily alter the squad over the next three or four windows. Several to get rid of.
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I agree we don’t have enough leaders. When you look at those decent seasons under O’Neill we had Friedel, Dunne, Barry, Petrov & Reo Coker to a certain extent. Whilst Mings is captain and You g shouts and points on the pitch I don’t really see anyone else being a leader.
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Ramsey had a yellow card. I think that's why he was subbed.
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I was disappointed with both the performance and the result. I thought we looked worse the longer the game went on.
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I was disappointed with both the performance and the result. I thought we looked worse the longer the game went on.
As soon as they scored I just felt we wouldn’t score again and they most likely would.
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We don't have enough leaders on the pitch and I wonder whether Gerrard is a bit coy about Mings being longer term captain because he wants to sign a couple of players who might be in the running for the armband? We don't have a nasty enough side to us as yet either. Too many passive players. Despite dominating for large parts of the game we still were a bit indecisive around their box, too often choosing to go backwards with the ball than sticking it the middle. We also need a player who can join in much more from midfield and score goals when joining in with the striker. We haven't had one of those for a while, other that that chap we recently sold to that boring lot. Someone earlier hit the nail on the head, we are better to watch now, but will get to a point where the players will demonstrate that they are unable to do what Gerrard wants them to do. He needs to bring in a couple of his own players in this window and steadily alter the squad over the next three or four windows. Several to get rid of.
Agree, it’s well and good driving at the opposition but if there is no end product then it’s pointless.
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I dont think the performance was dreadful at all.
I think we dominated the ball, territory and chances in a way we seldom do away from home. There are clear signs of an emerging style, with full backs pushed high and a desire to use the ball neatly in a midfield that works as a collective in and out of possession.
There was lots of good interplay, out of possession we pressed well and forced a recycle of the ball quickly and cheaply.
Where I think we struggled was that final ball. There seemed a reluctance for the full backs to cross it. Traore was infuriating in his decision making and seemed to pick the wrong ball or timing throughout the game. Lots of good positions and when that moment of quality was required his execution wasn't there. That was only his 2nd appearance since Chelsea in the cup, which didn't last long.
Ramsey seemed to run out of steam 2nd half, but showed 1st how he has a good turn of pace and desire to punch through gaps with his runs. I wonder if he picked a knock up when he was down 1st half?
I felt that Targett in particular is guilty of not being adventurous enough in his runs and that is likely why we're after a left back who can get up and down. We work the ball well to create pockets of space, he needs to be braver to find to use them.
Hause distribution is too slow. We transition via centre half a lot and he just isn't up to the level needed. Felt Dougie slowed us down a little at times when attacking down the left, but was quicker in transition through the right. A Targett problem.
Sanson didn't have his usual impact when he came on either. The dive from Trez was atrocious and he was largely ineffectual. I think a further inside forward coming in will also be on the agenda with him and El Ghazi likely being off. We probably won't see the best of Bailey till he's had a pre-seaaon. His repeated muscle injuries smack of a lack of fitness, that given he's Bolt levels of quick, isn't something he can remedy on the fly.
Buendia played well again, and managed to buy a couple of free kicks! He also managed to be dispossessed for a rare Berentford attack.
It's frustrating that our mistakes get punished with impunity. If Mings plays today, neither goal happens. Yes Targett fails to win the ball, but aggressive full back play will be a percentage game at times and you have to trust the centre halves. 3 or 4 minutes before half time and Hause having nothing to do (beyond hoofing a lob at Emi that went for a corner) and he just switches off and gives the Brentford player room he should never have.
Hause should clear the ball for the 2nd, but failed.
That little pocket in midfield will almost certainly be remedied in January, giving us 4 8s in Ramsey, McGinn, Sanson and Dougie. Brentford for when Emi saved and when they scored found space that shouldn't have been there.
Buttoning up that pocket will make a huge difference from a midtable side to one capable of knocking on the top 7 or 6.
I cannot fathom the reactions on here, at all. There are plenty of things that require working on, I've highlighted what I see as a few and clearly recruitment is part of the solution. But people saying they're depressed, diabolical performance (and I'm not taking in that twat of a trolls comments) is way overboard.
As an aside I was in a white seat. The ground is compact and tinpot, but uses the space well. No real dramas on the upper concourse beyond the fact the lads serving beers (OUT OF A CAN!!11!! WILMA!) put a head on it the size of Frank Sidebottom. You can park for free within a mile of the ground up Ealing Way. Its the closest and easiest to get to London ground for the Midland and Northern sets. There was also a fight by us. And it rained. It always rains when we go down to Brentford it seems.
Totally agree with this Ads. We're not Manchester City - we're a mid-table side at the moment and days like today will happen until we improve.
We conceded two goals, but I don't think there was too much wrong with what happened in the first two thirds of the pitch. The final third is another matter though and it is improving the quality in that area of the pitch which will see us make progress and win more of the games like today.
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Today did not surprise me - it just confirms (again) what we know. We are a mid table team that will win some, lose some. We have not a hope in hell of getting anywhere close to top 6 without major upgrades to the squad.
The real problem we face is that the big boys may cherry pick our true PL quality players before Gerrard has a chance to perform surgery. Emi M, SJM, Watkins, Konza, JR will all attract bids if we don’t get a shift on.
Players like Trez, AEG, Targett, Hause belong in a mid table side. Not in one pushing to compete at the highest level.
Mings, Cash, Ings, Doug, Bailey, Traore - jury out. Big decisions needed.
Gerrard has the rest of this season and two transfer windows to stamp his mark - he will be judged on what happens at the start of next season, not what happens the remainder of this.
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I agree we don’t have enough leaders. When you look at those decent seasons under O’Neill we had Friedel, Dunne, Barry, Petrov & Reo Coker to a certain extent. Whilst Mings is captain and You g shouts and points on the pitch I don’t really see anyone else being a leader.
This is something I have said for a while. Think too many go missing when we are up against it
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Today did not surprise me - it just confirms (again) what we know. We are a mid table team that will win some, lose some. We have not a hope in hell of getting anywhere close to top 6 without major upgrades to the squad.
The real problem we face is that the big boys may cherry pick our true PL quality players before Gerrard has a chance to perform surgery. Emi M, SJM, Watkins, Konza, JR will all attract bids if we don’t get a shift on.
Players like Trez, AEG, Targett, Hause belong in a mid table side. Not in one pushing to compete at the highest level.
Mings, Cash, Ings, Doug, Bailey, Traore - jury out. Big decisions needed.
Gerrard has the rest of this season and two transfer windows to stamp his mark - he will be judged on what happens at the start of next season, not what happens the remainder of this.
Pretty much
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Today did not surprise me - it just confirms (again) what we know. We are a mid table team that will win some, lose some. We have not a hope in hell of getting anywhere close to top 6 without major upgrades to the squad.
The real problem we face is that the big boys may cherry pick our true PL quality players before Gerrard has a chance to perform surgery. Emi M, SJM, Watkins, Konza, JR will all attract bids if we don’t get a shift on.
Players like Trez, AEG, Targett, Hause belong in a mid table side. Not in one pushing to compete at the highest level.
Mings, Cash, Ings, Doug, Bailey, Traore - jury out. Big decisions needed.
Gerrard has the rest of this season and two transfer windows to stamp his mark - he will be judged on what happens at the start of next season, not what happens the remainder of this.
I broadly agree with that - but would say three things
1 - there is a big difference between lower and upper mid table - if we can finish 10th or above I think that would have been the target at the beginning of the season. Personally feel we have a squad better than at least 10 of the teams in the divisions
B - leading on from that I think SG needs to get 12 or above otherwise the pressure would already be on and it would make us more likely to lose our better players.
iii - personally, I think some of the setup at the club need to take a look over their shoulders as the last 2 windows haven’t worked out well and we went into this season massively under prepared - and whilst I think the benefit of the doubt is still with them - too much longer and we may have to look beyond the managers and the coach
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Ramsey had a yellow card. I think that's why he was subbed.
He wasn't great anyway. Started well but lost the guy for the first goal and second half was disappointing. I would have taken Traore off first though.
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Ramsey had a yellow card. I think that's why he was subbed.
He wasn't great anyway. Started well but lost the guy for the first goal and second half was disappointing. I would have taken Traore off first though.
Like the rest of the midfield, he is inconsistent at the moment, very good one moment and then average the next, although in fairness, he has age on his side. The fact that he had been booked already may have influenced his actions for their first goal.
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Watching the Chelsea/Liverpool game to get the taste of the Brentford game out of my eyes.
That was a different level. May as well be a different sport.
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Ramsey had a yellow card. I think that's why he was subbed.
He wasn't great anyway. Started well but lost the guy for the first goal and second half was disappointing. I would have taken Traore off first though.
Probably was spooked to put in a challenge for the guy on the first goal cos he had already been booked.
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Whos that coach that need a haircut that is always standing around murmuring in the ear to our head coach whenever we play like shit?
Was the same with the last days of smith and when Gerrad came in he was sitting down in the background. Now he is back and yapping, pointing and giving directions like he was head coach or his assistant.
Didnt we get rid of all the Smith entourage?
Austin "Nanny" McPhee. Set-piece coach.
Brought in by the club in the summer, survived the Smith sacking and related coaching-staff cull along with Neil Cutler, the goalkeeping coach who has also remained in-situ.
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I blame our shit record against Brentford on Dean Smith. It all started with his team first nicking a draw against us at Villa Park in our first season in Serie B before schooling us in the return game and since then we've given them too much respect any time we've come up against them.
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Too many average players ambling around.
Tried to watch some of the game, found it incredibly tedious. Brentford fouling, fouling, fouling. Us with a lot of slow, tedious passing and poor decision making. Midfield is a massively average area for us.
Got bored, turned it off.
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For forty minutes we dominated them. they score against the run of play and heads drop. I didn't understand Triore starting as he was out for so long and would be short of match practice, he was poor when he came on a few days ago and was probably worse today. Agree with most that we are short of genuine quality across the park, I look forward to a clear out of players who have been given every chance, I include Doug in that list. Give me a few that hate to lose.
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Whos that coach that need a haircut that is always standing around murmuring in the ear to our head coach whenever we play like shit?
Was the same with the last days of smith and when Gerrad came in he was sitting down in the background. Now he is back and yapping, pointing and giving directions like he was head coach or his assistant.
Didnt we get rid of all the Smith entourage?
Austin "Nanny" McPhee. Set-piece coach.
Brought in by the club in the summer, survived the Smith sacking and related coaching-staff cull along with Neil Cutler, the goalkeeping coach who has also remained in-situ.
Would it be McPhee that coached us to try and pick out Buendia at the far post from a free kick like yesterday? Hopeless.
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Whos that coach that need a haircut that is always standing around murmuring in the ear to our head coach whenever we play like shit?
Was the same with the last days of smith and when Gerrad came in he was sitting down in the background. Now he is back and yapping, pointing and giving directions like he was head coach or his assistant.
Didnt we get rid of all the Smith entourage?
Austin "Nanny" McPhee. Set-piece coach.
Brought in by the club in the summer, survived the Smith sacking and related coaching-staff cull along with Neil Cutler, the goalkeeping coach who has also remained in-situ.
Would it be McPhee that coached us to try and pick out Buendia at the far post from a free kick like yesterday? Hopeless.
Sometimes I feel like he can try and coach all he wants but when Luiz is putting in terrible corners then it’s a total waste of time.
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I think it’s always hard to comment on coaches when in reality we see so little of what they do. Have to just trust that the manager feels they are contributing really.
We’ve also, off the top of my head, scored three goals and conceded none from set pieces in the last eight games so, from that very basic metric, it seems like he is making at least a reasonable contribution.
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I think it’s always hard to comment on coaches when in reality we see so little of what they do. Have to just trust that the manager feels they are contributing really.
We’ve also, off the top of my head, scored three goals and conceded none from set pieces in the last eight games so, from that very basic metric, it seems like he is making at least a reasonable contribution.
Luiz does my head in. He's got loads of talent, and of course he's still young, but he seems to have reached a plateau at the moment. He's not affecting games positively and just sorts of flits around, not doing anything much.
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I think it’s always hard to comment on coaches when in reality we see so little of what they do. Have to just trust that the manager feels they are contributing really.
We’ve also, off the top of my head, scored three goals and conceded none from set pieces in the last eight games so, from that very basic metric, it seems like he is making at least a reasonable contribution.
Luiz does my head in. He's got loads of talent, and of course he's still young, but he seems to have reached a plateau at the moment. He's not affecting games positively and just sorts of flits around, not doing anything much.
He seemed to play better when Nakamba was in the team. He's a competent but not great holding midfielder, he's much better when he's pushed forward more. I wish he'd start shooting again, he scored a couple of crackers when he first came.
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I think it’s always hard to comment on coaches when in reality we see so little of what they do. Have to just trust that the manager feels they are contributing really.
We’ve also, off the top of my head, scored three goals and conceded none from set pieces in the last eight games so, from that very basic metric, it seems like he is making at least a reasonable contribution.
Luiz does my head in. He's got loads of talent, and of course he's still young, but he seems to have reached a plateau at the moment. He's not affecting games positively and just sorts of flits around, not doing anything much.
He seemed to play better when Nakamba was in the team. He's a competent but not great holding midfielder, he's much better when he's pushed forward more. I wish he'd start shooting again, he scored a couple of crackers when he first came.
Last season him and Nakamba were awful as the holding 2
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I think it’s always hard to comment on coaches when in reality we see so little of what they do. Have to just trust that the manager feels they are contributing really.
We’ve also, off the top of my head, scored three goals and conceded none from set pieces in the last eight games so, from that very basic metric, it seems like he is making at least a reasonable contribution.
Luiz does my head in. He's got loads of talent, and of course he's still young, but he seems to have reached a plateau at the moment. He's not affecting games positively and just sorts of flits around, not doing anything much.
I was moaning about luiz during the game.
He has this knack of either getting in the way when we have the ball, or being in position to win the ball but not actually succeeding.
When he is on form he is great and he looks the real deal, the problem is that he isn’t on form very often.
And I don’t think his age is a consideration. He’s been playing first team football for years. He is extremely experienced and should be approaching his peak years now.
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He’s not a holding midfielder - he neither screens the back four effectively nor is a good enough link to move the team up the pitch. Both he and McGinn look much better pushed into more advanced midfield positions.
With Nakamba now out the need for a top quality DM has never been more pressing along with better centre half cover and a dynamic left back.
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Predicted they'd turn us over so wasn't surprised. New manager bounce has masked some of the problems that are still there. We're not gonna go down or compete for a European place with the current team, and I guess the Manager and Club know that. Will be interesting to see how quickly they intend to turn it round. A few quality signings in January would show there's an urgency perhaps.
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I think it’s always hard to comment on coaches when in reality we see so little of what they do. Have to just trust that the manager feels they are contributing really.
We’ve also, off the top of my head, scored three goals and conceded none from set pieces in the last eight games so, from that very basic metric, it seems like he is making at least a reasonable contribution.
Luiz does my head in. He's got loads of talent, and of course he's still young, but he seems to have reached a plateau at the moment. He's not affecting games positively and just sorts of flits around, not doing anything much.
I was moaning about luiz during the game.
He has this knack of either getting in the way when we have the ball, or being in position to win the ball but not actually succeeding.
When he is on form he is great and he looks the real deal, the problem is that he isn’t on form very often.
And I don’t think his age is a consideration. He’s been playing first team football for years. He is extremely experienced and should be approaching his peak years now.
The fact that Nakamba has improved massively under Gerrard, while Luiz hasn't is very telling
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He’s not a holding midfielder - he neither screens the back four effectively nor is a good enough link to move the team up the pitch. Both he and McGinn look much better pushed into more advanced midfield positions.
With Nakamba now out the need for a top quality DM has never been more pressing along with better centre half cover and a dynamic left back.
agree and I think we need to have better than Cash aswell
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We need to turn dominance into goals when we are so on top. You just knew that if we didn’t it would come back to bite us. I still can not fathom how we managed to lose this game.
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I think it’s always hard to comment on coaches when in reality we see so little of what they do. Have to just trust that the manager feels they are contributing really.
We’ve also, off the top of my head, scored three goals and conceded none from set pieces in the last eight games so, from that very basic metric, it seems like he is making at least a reasonable contribution.
Luiz does my head in. He's got loads of talent, and of course he's still young, but he seems to have reached a plateau at the moment. He's not affecting games positively and just sorts of flits around, not doing anything much.
I was moaning about luiz during the game.
He has this knack of either getting in the way when we have the ball, or being in position to win the ball but not actually succeeding.
When he is on form he is great and he looks the real deal, the problem is that he isn’t on form very often.
And I don’t think his age is a consideration. He’s been playing first team football for years. He is extremely experienced and should be approaching his peak years now.
The fact that Nakamba has improved massively under Gerrard, while Luiz hasn't is very telling
I thought Luiz looked fine playing further forward with Nkamba in the side. He isn’t so good as a DM. There was also less improvement needed for Luiz. Nkamba had previously looked pretty expendable whereas Luiz had already often looked like one of our better players.
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He’s not a holding midfielder - he neither screens the back four effectively nor is a good enough link to move the team up the pitch. Both he and McGinn look much better pushed into more advanced midfield positions.
With Nakamba now out the need for a top quality DM has never been more pressing along with better centre half cover and a dynamic left back.
agree and I think we need to have better than Cash aswell
Cash looks better without Traore in front of him.
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Disappointed with the result but had a good day out at there new stadium.
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Disappointed with the result but had a good day out at there new stadium.
Day out is always good, just not the match :-)
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Their stadium looks crap by the way. Why would you build something that looks like a rubbish 1980s lower league ground?
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We need to turn dominance into goals when we are so on top. You just knew that if we didn’t it would come back to bite us. I still can not fathom how we managed to lose this game.
Been saying that a lot since we came back to the top flight. End up with a big fat zero points far, far too often. A sprinkling of hard fought draws would make a huge difference over the past few seasons.
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Poor. Big calls for Gerrard to make coming up.
Targett
Luiz
Hause
Traore
Not good enough if we aim to be a top half side.
Add Trez and el Ghazi to that list.
Absolutely. I was just going off the ones he deemed good enough to start today.
Quick question what is the issue with wanting El Ghazi gone? We aren't going to get to many who contribute what he does that are happy yo be a squad player. In fact, looking at some of the other signings Bailey, barkley, troare to name a few, we aren't going to get starters contributing his numbers (either through lack of form or injuries). He's a relatively fit lad, keeps professional and has contributed some important goals and/or assists.
Well said...and he was also our 2nd highest goalscorer in 2021.
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Their stadium looks crap by the way. Why would you build something that looks like a rubbish 1980s lower league ground?
Because that's where they are going to be in the near future?
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I think it’s always hard to comment on coaches when in reality we see so little of what they do. Have to just trust that the manager feels they are contributing really.
We’ve also, off the top of my head, scored three goals and conceded none from set pieces in the last eight games so, from that very basic metric, it seems like he is making at least a reasonable contribution.
Luiz does my head in. He's got loads of talent, and of course he's still young, but he seems to have reached a plateau at the moment. He's not affecting games positively and just sorts of flits around, not doing anything much.
I was moaning about luiz during the game.
He has this knack of either getting in the way when we have the ball, or being in position to win the ball but not actually succeeding.
When he is on form he is great and he looks the real deal, the problem is that he isn’t on form very often.
And I don’t think his age is a consideration. He’s been playing first team football for years. He is extremely experienced and should be approaching his peak years now.
The fact that Nakamba has improved massively under Gerrard, while Luiz hasn't is very telling
Luiz is having a decent season I think. Certainly far better than last season and was decent enough yesterday. But in the 6 role he still makes far too many mistakes for me and never senses danger quick enough like a top holding midfielder should. Nakamba in comparison tends to read the game a bit better but is still an utter liability with the ball.
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Their stadium looks crap by the way. Why would you build something that looks like a rubbish 1980s lower league ground?
Because that's where they are going to be in the near future?
Lovely tap-in. Why can't our players do the same?
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Their stadium looks crap by the way. Why would you build something that looks like a rubbish 1980s lower league ground?
To be fair to them they're not going to have some mega-stadium - build to their means.
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Luiz is having a decent season I think. Certainly far better than last season and was decent enough yesterday. But in the 6 role he still makes far too many mistakes for me and never senses danger quick enough like a top holding midfielder should. Nakamba in comparison tends to read the game a bit better but is still an utter liability with the ball.
Luiz has had a reasonable season. Yesterday, he was poor - gave the ball away too often for a player of his quality, and he lacked energy.
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Luiz is having a decent season I think. Certainly far better than last season and was decent enough yesterday. But in the 6 role he still makes far too many mistakes for me and never senses danger quick enough like a top holding midfielder should. Nakamba in comparison tends to read the game a bit better but is still an utter liability with the ball.
Luiz has had a reasonable season. Yesterday, he was poor - gave the ball away too often for a player of his quality, and he lacked energy.
Must be tired from all that kissing on social media. Both fine specimens - but no one needs to see that
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Hause's has to be a contender for worst performance of the season. Whether he is just rusty or simply not good enough at this level is not entirely clear. One thing I'm sure of though is that he only played the full 90 because of a lack of replacement alternative on the bench.
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I know we were all disappointed with the game but Dougie storming off down the tunnel without coming over to clap the fans at the end I thought he could have acknowledged us.
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I know we were all disappointed with the game but Dougie storming off down the tunnel without coming over to clap the fans at the end I thought he could have acknowledged us.
That's not good. He had the look of someone going through the motions.
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If true, he can bog-off to a middling Serie A side.
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Luiz is having a decent season I think. Certainly far better than last season and was decent enough yesterday. But in the 6 role he still makes far too many mistakes for me and never senses danger quick enough like a top holding midfielder should. Nakamba in comparison tends to read the game a bit better but is still an utter liability with the ball.
Luiz has had a reasonable season. Yesterday, he was poor - gave the ball away too often for a player of his quality, and he lacked energy.
I think 'reasonable' is right. Which isn't really good enough. He's been one of the mainstays of our midfield for three seasons now, and I just don't see much progression from him.
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Luiz is having a decent season I think. Certainly far better than last season and was decent enough yesterday. But in the 6 role he still makes far too many mistakes for me and never senses danger quick enough like a top holding midfielder should. Nakamba in comparison tends to read the game a bit better but is still an utter liability with the ball.
Luiz has had a reasonable season. Yesterday, he was poor - gave the ball away too often for a player of his quality, and he lacked energy.
I think 'reasonable' is right. Which isn't really good enough. He's been one of the mainstays of our midfield for three seasons now, and I just don't see much progression from him.
He had that period in lockdown when he looked like a top top player, before or after he has looked ordinary most of the time.
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I know we were all disappointed with the game but Dougie storming off down the tunnel without coming over to clap the fans at the end I thought he could have acknowledged us.
That's not good. He had the look of someone going through the motions.
I wonder if the weried deal we did for him is how he sees us too - i.e. a stepping a stone.
Strange player - can look amazing, but agree with posters - he hasnt progressed as much as we hoped he would.
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Luiz is having a decent season I think. Certainly far better than last season and was decent enough yesterday. But in the 6 role he still makes far too many mistakes for me and never senses danger quick enough like a top holding midfielder should. Nakamba in comparison tends to read the game a bit better but is still an utter liability with the ball.
Luiz has had a reasonable season. Yesterday, he was poor - gave the ball away too often for a player of his quality, and he lacked energy.
I think 'reasonable' is right. Which isn't really good enough. He's been one of the mainstays of our midfield for three seasons now, and I just don't see much progression from him.
I think this is fair comment as I just don’t think he’s improved at all. On his day some of his movement, passing and control of a games tempo is quite superb but he throws in a few performances like Sundays where he’s just not on it. To be fair to him he has been converted to a 6 role by Smith as prior to joining I got the impression he tended to play further forwards and he just doesn’t enjoy the 6 role as it frustrates his more natural game.
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I thought our tactic of putting Luiz on the the keeper at corners (and then us giving away needless fouls as a result) was bloody stupid and Luiz didn't look happy doing it either.
He'll do far better with a proper holding player in the middle. Hi, Ramsey, Sanson and McGinn can all play the '8' with a decent '6' behind them, Against some teams though, we can play with 3 '8's.
Jesus I feel dirty having typed all that number crap out.
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I thought our tactic of putting Luiz on the the keeper at corners (and then us giving away needless fouls as a result) was bloody stupid and Luiz didn't look happy doing it either.
He'll do far better with a proper holding player in the middle. Hi, Ramsey, Sanson and McGinn can all play the '8' with a decent '6' behind them, Against some teams though, we can play with 3 '8's.
Jesus I feel dirty having typed all that number crap out.
You're right though. Yesterday Luiz, Ramsey and McGinn all looked too similar I thought.
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I thought our tactic of putting Luiz on the the keeper at corners (and then us giving away needless fouls as a result) was bloody stupid and Luiz didn't look happy doing it either.
He'll do far better with a proper holding player in the middle. Hi, Ramsey, Sanson and McGinn can all play the '8' with a decent '6' behind them, Against some teams though, we can play with 3 '8's.
Jesus I feel dirty having typed all that number crap out.
You're right though. Yesterday Luiz, Ramsey and McGinn all looked too similar I thought.
first half we were 3 '8s' and 2 '10s' and we completely overloaded them, they were chasing shadows in midfield until their goal (which came from nothing). 2nd half they started using their wing backs a lot more to drag our players out of the centre but we were still competing fine, we just seemed scared to 'do stuff' around their box. plenty of times we had the chance to get in early crosses but we slowed play down and tried to get closer, which gave them the chance to get 6-7 behind the ball.
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The ball he played into Targett, with his weaker foot, was fabulous and should have ended with the ball in the net and not passed back safely into the keepers palms.
I like Targett but he should be docked his wages for that, he just had to pass it across the box
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Do we have any "6's" in the yoofs that like they could cover for Nakamba if we don't make any moves for a stopper in January?
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Do we have any "6's" in the yoofs that like they could cover for Nakamba if we don't make any moves for a stopper in January?
I liked the look of rikhy in that role last year, and he has just been recalled from loan.
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Do we have any "6's" in the yoofs that like they could cover for Nakamba if we don't make any moves for a stopper in January?
I liked the look of rikhy in that role last year, and he has just been recalled from loan
I'll stand to be corrected but I understand he wasn't getting any match time. If he didn't impress enough at a Tier 5 club it might be questionable to hope he would be ready for the Premiership.
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Do we have any "6's" in the yoofs that like they could cover for Nakamba if we don't make any moves for a stopper in January?
I liked the look of rikhy in that role last year, and he has just been recalled from loan
I'll stand to be corrected but I understand he wasn't getting any match time. If he didn't impress enough at a Tier 5 club it might be questionable to hope he would be ready for the Premiership.
Absolutely, I don't think he's ready to play in the premier league but him or Iroegbunam are the 2 you'd think might make it. So the question is whether either is ready to be the cover for such a big role. Personally I'd sign someone and then let those 2 fight for the spot on the bench whilst Nakamba is out. If either manages to step up in that time then we have a new decision to make in the summer.
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It makes you wonder what Dean's plans were for Sanson this time last year - Ramsey hadn't fully broken through yet but Smith clearly believed in him. Was it a bit of insurance in case Dougee went back to Citeh/elsewhere? Otherwise, the overload of number 8s (Meatball too) suggests a lazy, profligate signing strategy.
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It makes you wonder what Dean's plans were for Sanson this time last year - Ramsey hadn't fully broken through yet but Smith clearly believed in him. Was it a bit of insurance in case Dougee went back to Citeh/elsewhere? Otherwise, the overload of number 8s (Meatball too) suggests a lazy, profligate signing strategy.
Wasn’t the story that the club had earmarked him for the summer but financial issues at Marseille meant he was available earlier?
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It makes you wonder what Dean's plans were for Sanson this time last year - Ramsey hadn't fully broken through yet but Smith clearly believed in him. Was it a bit of insurance in case Dougee went back to Citeh/elsewhere? Otherwise, the overload of number 8s (Meatball too) suggests a lazy, profligate signing strategy.
Wasn’t the story that the club had earmarked him for the summer but financial issues at Marseille meant he was available earlier?
To me it always felt like a "Sales" purchase - apparently recently he was valued at 25m, and we got him for like 8m. I think only when we got home from the store we realised we didnt actually need it
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Given the shape we've played under both Smith and Gerrard signing Sanson and the emergence of Ramsey means 4 players for 2 or sometimes 3 positions. It's not exactly Chelsea style hording.
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If we can get a good defensive midfielder will give us balance. Dougie himself is a young lad playing out of position. He's said itself he's an 8. Having 4 quality 8s is needed. Marv as back up for the new boy and that's a good balanced midfield.
As an aside, Brentford are doing what they must, but Christ they're an ugly side these days.
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Part of Dougie's problems, apart from being played out of position, is that he hasn't had a proper summer break since he joined us.