Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Steve67 on October 22, 2021, 10:01:05 PM
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Very poor, better when he finally decided to change it but still really poor stuff.
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Utter dirge
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First 45 minutes was one of worst I've seen in years, arguably our worst since promotion anyway. We offered nothing.
Second half a bit better but you always look good at 3 down, Arsenal just gave up pressing last 20 minutes.
Simply not good enough anyway, would love to know what was said in the teamtalk.
Current standard of performance is diabolical, DS won't be lasting to December at this rate.
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First half beyond abysmal. But… at 433 we at least looked competent and created chances. Smith is hanging himself though, he needs to sort it quickly. 532 has seen us waste the last 3 games.
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We need a new manager and a few new players on that showing.
What is Aston Villa trying to be?
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Thank you Dean and players for completely ruining my weekend. Just fuck off now.
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Wrong in every conceivable area.
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It’s not the players.
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Dreadful. The first half was as poor a half of football as I can remember seeing, and I haven’t quite blocked out the Tim Sherwood era completely.
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I think net zero spending and an average manager was never really going to see us do anything much this season.
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Please please test the 3 5 2 - it doesn’t work.
Please Dean - I want you to sort it
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Poor starting team and tactics. 1st half dire, 2nd half showed improvement, but too little too late! Again Tuanzebe shouldn’t have started and playing 3 at the back should have been shelved after the wolves collapse!
West Ham game is going to be interesting for a number of reasons.
UTV!
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One observation. I thought Mings was l terrible in the first half. Then comes the change of system and he looked totally different. I think even the players know that they are suffering from DS poor management and it's frustrating them.
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Utter shit.
Ings, Watkins and Bailey are good players. Play them as a 3 with Watkins left. Yes, he was good down the centre last season but we have Ings now and need to utilise him so rather than change the whole system just play Watkins left as hell still be good there.
Midfield still lacks a proper hard man to break up the opposition. Buy one in Jan and play McGinn and one from Sanson, Luiz or Ramsay.
Defence and GK were quality last season. Defence needs a good kick up the arse or whatever it takes to get them back on track. Give Tuenzebe back to Man Utd and buy a quality up and coming CB that can play left or right CB to keep Mings on his toes.
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It felt like they were playing about 8 in midfield.
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I think net zero spending and an average manager was never really going to see us do anything much this season.
We’ve spent £200m mate.
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It’s not the players.
Of course it was the players, they were absolutely rubbish, I can’t think of one who played well with the exception of Emi
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The formation was shit but you can also blame the players for that first half. It’s maddening it took so long to change in the game, and that we’ve persisted with it for so many games.
It’s all down to deciding he needs to play Watkins and Ings
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Total dog shit.
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After a dreadful first half, much better 2nd half and the ridiculous thing is Ramsey and Watkins had too very decent chances late on, for us to get a point.
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Terrible and no doubt he’ll rock out the 3 centre halves again next game. If I’m the owners I’m rapidly losing patience.
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It’s not the players.
Of course it was the players, they were absolutely rubbish, I can’t think of one who played well with the exception of Emi
so who manages the players ?
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It’s not the players.
Of course it was the players, they were absolutely rubbish, I can’t think of one who played well with the exception of Emi
so who manages the players ?
What’s the point of this argument - it was obviously both in the first half, terrible formation, terrible individual performances
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That performance, and my opinion of it, can best be summarised by the espresso scene in Mulholland Drive.
Going forward, for the next game we need this:
Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Mings
Targett
McGinn
Luiz
Ramsey
Bailey
Watkins
Buendia
By the end of the season, I think Sanson could/should displace McGinn. For all his qualities, McGinn is too frantic and gives the ball away way too much. I also thing Traore for Buendia may be the better option a lot of the time. Ings is a tough one - he's a good finisher, but Watkins is way more mobile and we need a pressing forward in the 4-3-3.
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That was the worst I’ve seen us this season. I missed the Watford game but that can go down as a lack of preparation. Tonight was just a shambles from kick off. This system is not working, our once quite solid defence looks useless.
It’s worrying how after the last two performances we’ve carried on with this set-up. There’s no reason to play it every week, especially when we have better options in the bench.
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That first half was absolutely disgraceful - was up there with Kevin Macdonald's "effort" at Spurs in 15/16.
Dean Smith's pig-headedness is going to cost him his job.
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This wasn't about Villa. This was about Smith.
Set us up well and we have a chance. Get it badly wrong as Smith did and we have no chance.
That first half was the worst since the relegation season.
We have a good team and an average manager.
A change will be made.
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Not much to say.
That was awful yet we drew the second half playing 4-3-3.
What I find completely baffling is that we all knew that 4-3-3 was the way to go before the match. And that 10 minutes in it was clearly what needed to happen. By 30 minutes it was the only way to proceed yet we waited til half time when the game was already effectively done.
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Goalkeeper was the best player and we let three in. Smith a big fat zero today.
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That first half was beyond awful. What on earth was he doing waiting to half time to change it?
Second half better but we couldn't have been any worse. Only plus point was return to 4-3-3, Tuanzebe, Buendia and Ings off and the semblance of some attacking threat. Good to see Ramsey on the scoresheet. I'm too annoyed to do scores on the doors, but rest assured Dean won't be scoring more than 1/10.
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That was a relegation performance. We have two full backs who cannot play as wing backs no matter how much DS wants it. As bad as it was i'm not blaming the players this time for me it was all down to game management, the first fifteen minutes told us the set up was wrong and needed to be changed but as DS does. he doesn't do anything until the game was all but lost. We have the best squad we have had in years and should be challenging but not with Dean in charge.
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That performance, and my opinion of it, can best be summarised by the espresso scene in Mulholland Drive.
Ings is a tough one - he's a good finisher, but Watkins is way more mobile and we need a pressing forward in the 4-3-3.
I think there is hard work in Ings and Bailey in addition to Watkins. They’re all good players too. The problem with El Ghazi is that he worked but didn’t quite have the quality and the problem with Traore is he had touches of quality but didn’t always work hard enough. I also like McGinn for his work rate.
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It’s not the players.
Of course it was the players, they were absolutely rubbish, I can’t think of one who played well with the exception of Emi
so who manages the players ?
The manager is at fault but that doesn’t excuse awful play, passing (who on earth was McGinn passing to for Arsenal’s third?) just diabolical by every player
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I think the players played to bury 3-5-2 once and for all. It was clear most of them weren’t happy. He should have been brave enough to change it after 25 minutes but waited until we had a mountain to climb.
It’s just a matter of time for Smith now.
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532 Just dont suit us it looks clumsy,players get in each others way---poor poor first half, a tad better second half with Bailey on--but too late the damage was already done, it will be a big big test against high flying West Ham for both manager and players,---3 losses on the trot simply aint good,
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I’m struggling to remember such an inept 1st half performance ever.
Considering the players we have are decent.
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I think the players played to bury 3-5-2 once and for all. It was clear most of them weren’t happy. He should have been brave enough to change it after 25 minutes but waited until we had a mountain to climb.
It’s just a matter of time for Smith now.
Agree you could see that the players were not on board
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One observation. I thought Mings was l terrible in the first half. Then comes the change of system and he looked totally different. I think even the players know that they are suffering from DS poor management and it's frustrating them.
Agree 100%. Mings was completely off it in the first half - but not the only one.
Also has he ever won a header when defending a corner? Was at fault for their first goal and never got near any of the other ones when they came into the centre of the goal.
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We actually could have made that a very nervy finish for Arsenal...created plenty of chances in the second half.
Martinez 6 - very poor for first goal but two other brilliant saves
Cash 3 - rubbish, torn apart by ESR, didn't fancy it tonight
Konsa 5 - poor first half but a lot more solid in second
Tuanzebe 5 - tactical shambles not his fault but struggling with the physicality of the division and he used do much more with the ball for us in the championship
Mings 5 - awful first half, shit for third but much better in back 4 in a decent second half
Targett 2 - really really bad...not sure he even improved second half. Not a LWB at all
Luiz 6 - sure he made mistakes but he was on his own in there and I thought battled very hard. Key to the improvement in the second half
McGinn 2 - horror show, at fault for two goals arguably, gave away ball constantly, offered nothing without ball
Buendia 3 - rubbish, finding step up a bit much...missed a big chance for us.
Watkins 5 - horrific first half but did well on left wing in second
Ings 3 - non existent but big chance missed early in second half. Good forward but the wrong signing for us.
Bailey 7 - not fully fit but quality stood out a mile
Ramsey 7 - added much needed mobility and a brilliant first goal for us, nearly a second too
AEG 5 - can't remember him getting a kick
Smith 2 - awful team selection but even worse was him biting his nails while his team got destroyed in that first half.
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Even if he decides to go 4 at the back and 1 up front next game - his time is up.
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We have the players to play 433 well. We can rotate, cover injuries and it works.
Midfield 3 from SJM, doug, ramsey and sanson
Front 3 from watkins, ings, bailey, buendia, traore
Its not hard.
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Smith has been having me scratching my head since he announced 2 weeks before the transfer window that he was happy with what he had. Tonight was a new low but I’m not convinced he won’t see sense and put the formation back to how it was. What happens after that will be interesting as to whether he’s lost credit with the squad or whether he can identify and buy a couple of players in Jan to improve it, if he’s still here.
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Tonight is the first game in years where it was embarrassing. This is three years into our journey with Smith and three years into heavy investment. It just isn't good enough.
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Doesn't matter what formations he uses, it's results that the owners will look at and tonight was not good enough performance wise,
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It should be Ings OR Watkins. Not both.
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First half: 14-0 on shots.
Second half: 8-10 on shots.
Sums it up really, nothing was right in the first half: overloaded out wide, 3 CBs didn't know whether to play tight or spread so they were constantly out of position, Buendia was bullied and chasing shadows leaving them as 3 on 2 in the centre far too often and we couldn't get the ball to the front pair so they were anonymous.
The change in shape helped, still looked like 2-3 players were square pegs in round holes but most knew their job. Their 3rd was a bit of a sucker punch but still came from the midfield being off. When Ramsey came on we took over in the middle and made Partey and Lokongo look slow and cumbersome.
Smith got it badly wrong tonight and everything I dislike about 3 CBs happened, I'd just about let him carry on but next game has to be a win and has to be a back 4, anything else and it'll show that he can't see why we deserved to get a kicking tonight.
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Just threw the players under the bus in his post match interview and make it clear that the system wasn’t to blame. Totally in denial.
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This wasn't about Villa. This was about Smith.
Set us up well and we have a chance. Get it badly wrong as Smith did and we have no chance.
That first half was the worst since the relegation season.
We have a good team and an average manager.
A change will be made.
This, unfortunately!
I find it really difficult to comprehend what someone like Dean - a Villa man, a thinker, an experienced coach - is thinking when he makes decisions like tonight.
I just can't get my head around how the other members of the coaching team seem to have no say.
They can't have or at least one of them would have pointed-out the glaringly obvious.
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It should be Ings OR Watkins. Not both.
It was fundamentally the wrong signing for us. We needed a striker to put pressure on Watkins and provide cover, not replace him. It’s just resulted in muddled thinking and a team that’s lost it’s way.
Smith needs to make some brave decisions but it may well be too late.
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I think net zero spending and an average manager was never really going to see us do anything much this season.
We’ve spent £200m mate.
He’s still correct.
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Gary Neville just explained it all.
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I am 65 and having been supporting since I was old enough to know what a football was.
I am beginning to come to terms with the fact that I will not witness our world domination.
too many false dawns
Today was another typical "one of those days" fuck knows what strategy we had going into the game.
The first half was abysmal , second half, three up Arsenal did not push on. Only Emi and the two subs have any credit
Really beginning to think Dean has reached his level
To move on we need someone who has won things and understands tactics and systems
Midtable at best and thank fuck for ,watford , Norwich and ?????
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Its buggered up watkins confidence too.
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Just threw the players under the bus in his post match interview and make it clear that the system wasn’t to blame. Totally in denial.
Not the first time he has done that and its the same bollox that Bruce used to pull ..
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It should be Ings OR Watkins. Not both.
It was fundamentally the wrong signing for us. We needed a striker to put pressure on Watkins and provide cover, not replace him. It’s just resulted in muddled thinking and a team that’s lost it’s way.
Smith needs to make some brave decisions but it may well be too late.
I think Ings is a fine signing and is high level competition for Ollie. Trying to shoehorn the both in is the problem.
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Gary Neville just explained it all.
Can you summarise?
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https://www.skysports.com/football/arsenal-vs-a-villa/report/446368
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Tonight is the first game in years where it was embarrassing.
Did you miss the last 10 minutes of last week?
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Gary Neville just explained it all.
Can you summarise?
Need to get back to basics, set up similar to last year. Thinks Villa will be fine (assume not in relegation trouble!). Didn't agree regarding lack of application being the problem (as per Smith).
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It should be Ings OR Watkins. Not both.
It was fundamentally the wrong signing for us. We needed a striker to put pressure on Watkins and provide cover, not replace him. It’s just resulted in muddled thinking and a team that’s lost it’s way.
Smith needs to make some brave decisions but it may well be too late.
I think Ings is a fine signing and is high level competition for Ollie. Trying to shoehorn the both in is the problem.
Indeed, but at 29, I don’t think Ings came to spend half the season on the bench which is why Smith is finding a way to keep both in the side.
He’s changing the philosophy and formation he’s always believed in to accommodate a signing that was designed to soften Grealish going.
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Tonight is the first game in years where it was embarrassing.
Did you miss the last 10 minutes of last week?
I think I have blurred last week out...
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Absolute fucking shite. Relegation form tonight.
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Arse fans booing Martinez were beyond pathetic.
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Arse fans booing Martinez were beyond pathetic.
Hold that thought until we’ve played Man City.
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Tonight is the first game in years where it was embarrassing.
Did you miss the last 10 minutes of last week?
I think I have blurred last week out...
Or first half of Watford?
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I thought it would take a good while before I was as pissed off as I was last weekend about Villa. Turns out it was 6 days. Thanks Dean.
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We need to be going 433 and rotating Watkins/Ings/Traore/Bailey/Buendia. Two up front is so limiting, leaves us with a great bench but not much good if we are already losing before we make changes. When did Deano lose his bottle? Far too much respect given to a bang average Arsenal team tonight. So so so frustrating.
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Dunno why he didn't see the issues and make the changes after 15mins.
We'd be lauding his tactical acumen if he had.
When Ben White dribbles the whole length of the pitch unchallenged something isn't working. The camera panned to Smith and Shakespeare deep in conversation a few times even at nil nil.
Just pull tuzenebe off after 15, get Bailey on and "go toe to toe"
Axel's only a loan player if he sulks he can go back to trafford.
Ings and Buenada passengers. McGinn and Luiz were a bit more involved but both wretched.
Good strike by Ramsey.
I thought the yellow card for watkins after two mins was harsh. a ticking off would have sufficed,
and the pen, well I thought it was a pen but just the way it happened, so much time seemed to have passed I thought we'd got away with it.
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Arse fans booing Martinez were beyond pathetic.
Hold that thought until we’ve played Man City.
We won't boo Scott Carson.
If you're referring to Quisling, the situation is entirely different.
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Lose the next 2 games and we will be in relegation territory. Draws no good either. We need at least 4 points from next two matches.
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What's just as worrying as that appalling display tonight, which I blame Smith for entirely, is his post match comments where he blames the players and says there was no issue with the formation.
He is now starting to sound like Bruce and the thought of the fans turning on him after he has done so much is not a welcoming thought but he is mastering his own Downfall.
The decision Will probably rest with Purslow and I suspect failure to win either the West Ham or Saints games could see him gone. It's been widely reported Purslow is a big fan of Gerrard. If Smith does goes it would make a great statement if we enticed a top drawer foreign manager for once
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Gerrard? No thanks.
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A few of our players might end up in Newcastle shirts at this rate.
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The other notable thing tonight was our ill discipline right from the first minute when Watkins got booked. We racked up 5 cards, and although we've played a game more, we are top of the yellow card list (22 along with Brighton).
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Might need to try and be constructive about the formation and personnel another time, for now - that was utter shite.
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We were all over the shop and headless from the first minute. They picked their way through our midfield 2 with ease. The only surprise was no one got themselves sent off tonight because it was as ill disciplined as it was tactically inept.
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Arse fans booing Martinez were beyond pathetic.
TBF he’s said quite a lot about Arsenal and none of it complimentary. The booing was totally justified. We would certainly have done the same
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The other notable thing tonight was our ill discipline right from the first minute when Watkins got booked. We racked up 5 cards, and although we've played a game more, we are top of the yellow card list (22 along with Brighton).
Didn't think Watkins deserved a yellow there really, was very little in it
I thought Mings was a bit lucky that Lacazette didn't make more out of that elbow early on too, gave him a nice clip.
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Woeful first half. God knows what the game plan was. Deano will come under pressure very soon with many more performances like that. How Deano could let 45 mins go by without a tactical adjustment is beyond me when we were being completely outplayed.
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I thought Mings was a bit lucky that Lacazette didn't make more out of that elbow early on too, gave him a nice clip.
Not in the slightest, Mings had his arms up before Lacazette got off the ground, the little twat jumped into his arm and then threw himself over like he'd been snipered. Bought the penalty as well, the one thing I agree with Smith on from the post match was that the penalty was soft and the whistle should've gone as soon as it was saved (given it was awarded after the ref had blown for halftime). going in 1-0 down would've massively flattered us but it was a very cheap goal.
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The other notable thing tonight was our ill discipline right from the first minute when Watkins got booked. We racked up 5 cards, and although we've played a game more, we are top of the yellow card list (22 along with Brighton).
Didn't think Watkins deserved a yellow there really, was very little in it
I thought Mings was a bit lucky that Lacazette didn't make more out of that elbow early on too, gave him a nice clip.
I agree on both points.
Mings was returning a favour to Lacazette, as is custom and practice.
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Martinez 6.5
Targett 4.5
Tuanzebe 5
Konsa 5
Mings 5.5
Cash 5
Luiz 6
McGinn 5
Targett 4.5
Buendia 5.5
Ings 6
Watkins 5.5
Subs
Bailey 7
Ramsey 7
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If this was the reaction to Saturdays debacle then we’re in deep shit
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Martinez 6.5
Targett 4.5
Tuanzebe 5
Konsa 5
Mings 5.5
Cash 5
Luiz 6
McGinn 5
Targett 4.5
Buendia 5.5
Ings 6
Watkins 5.5
Subs
Bailey 7
Ramsey 7
So desperate to scapegoat Targett you've listed him twice! 😄
It isn't healthy the way you get an obsession with certain players.
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We were absolutely awful first half and only a bit better second. The first half really was as bad as I've seen it.
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Dean has to accept the blame for this.It reminds me of Lambert’s genius decision to try to play out from the back after a trip to Bayern.
5-3-2 weakens ever area of the pitch. We need 3 in midfield & that excludes Buendia. He should have changed it after 20 mins. If it isn’t working why leave it for another 25 minutes.
Buendia has played in England for 3 seasons but looks like he’s never played here before. He needs bulk up & quicken up. He plays wide right or not at all.
Teams are catching on that if they close us down quickly we’ll lose the ball & are then wide open.
Penalty was another dreadful decision. That is never a clear & obvious error.
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We were absolutely awful first half and only a bit better second. The first half really was as bad as I've seen it.
I don't see how those 2 statements fit.
I agree with you on the first half, it's the worst half we've put together under Smith by a long way. The 2nd half was a middle of the road performance, not enough to turn around a 2 goal deficit away from home but good enough to think that if we'd played like that all game we'd have been in with a chance of getting something. Given how bad the first half was I can't beleive any honestly thinks the 2nd half was significantly better, even it be pretty average.
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I thought Watkins looked a different player when Ings went off towards the end, he was starting to pull defenders out of position. I hate the thought of changing managers again but Deans game management is woeful, it was clear after the first fifteen that a different formation was required but he always waits until the forseeable disaster happens before any action. I want a pro-active manager that can see what we all see and acts accordingly.
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The first half an hour was a real shock to the system. I can't easily recall us being so thoroughly outclassed, out-worked and out-thought so completely in recent times. None of the staff - players or management - come out with any credit and it saddens me to feel that way. Our 3-5-2 is flimsy and disjointed. We have utterly wasted the start of this season by trying to force it in.
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Let's not be silly about Smith's position. Life as a manager is obviously impossible, and anyone who looks halfway like they know what they're doing at the top of the game - from Deano to Rafa to Tuchel - is obviously not a moron.
That said, this formation is done now. Good in certain situations, but three defeats in a row against direct rivals doesn't lie.
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Let's not be silly about Smith's position. Life as a manager is obviously impossible, and anyone who looks halfway like they know what they're doing at the top of the game - from Deano to Rafa to Tuchel - is obviously not a moron.
That said, this formation is done now. Good in certain situations, but three defeats in a row against direct rivals doesn't lie.
I think the fact he blamed the players and said the formation is fine is worrying though, I was pissed but still thinking "lets see in december" when the game ended, his interview pissed me off. All he needed to say was that he got the tactics wrong in the first half to show he saw what went wrong.
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Let's not be silly about Smith's position. Life as a manager is obviously impossible, and anyone who looks halfway like they know what they're doing at the top of the game - from Deano to Rafa to Tuchel - is obviously not a moron.
That said, this formation is done now. Good in certain situations, but three defeats in a row against direct rivals doesn't lie.
He should not have started with his formation. Might not have made his life impossible.
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Martinez 6.5
Targett 4.5
Tuanzebe 5
Konsa 5
Mings 5.5
Cash 5
Luiz 6
McGinn 5
Targett 4.5
Buendia 5.5
Ings 6
Watkins 5.5
Subs
Bailey 7
Ramsey 7
So desperate to scapegoat Targett you've listed him twice! 😄
It isn't healthy the way you get an obsession with certain players.
Could be worse. At least he got the same mark.
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Luckily was out tonight. 9 games in. Only Norwich have lost more than our 5. We have conceded 3 goals in 4 of those games. I thank Dean for 3 years of getting us to where we are but we are stagnating now. I'd like to see if the owners really are ambitious enough to entice a big name manager to VP. If Everton can get the likes of Ancelotti and Benitez I don't see why we can't.
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Let's not be silly about Smith's position. Life as a manager is obviously impossible, and anyone who looks halfway like they know what they're doing at the top of the game - from Deano to Rafa to Tuchel - is obviously not a moron.
That said, this formation is done now. Good in certain situations, but three defeats in a row against direct rivals doesn't lie.
I think the fact he blamed the players and said the formation is fine is worrying though, I was pissed but still thinking "lets see in december" when the game ended, his interview pissed me off. All he needed to say was that he got the tactics wrong in the first half to show he saw what went wrong.
He never, ever looks in the mirror. He is very quick to shift responsibility to the players. Not the first time he’s done it. Even if he said that we have to look at everything it turn this around it would be better than as usual “it ain’t me it’s them”
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Just home. Garbage. I do hope that’s the last we see of five at the back, however judging by Dean’s comments I have a bad feeling it won’t be. Modern football is awash with statistics and tonight’s first v second half numbers should tell him all he needs to know. Let’s hope he takes it on board.
Massive game next Sunday.
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Luckily was out tonight. 9 games in. Only Norwich have lost more than our 5. We have conceded 3 goals in 4 of those games. I thank Dean for 3 years of getting us to where we are but we are stagnating now. I'd like to see if the owners really are ambitious enough to entice a big name manager to VP. If Everton can get the likes of Ancelotti and Benitez I don't see why we can't.
Where I am at also
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I think the players played to bury 3-5-2 once and for all. It was clear most of them weren’t happy.
Nice thought, but why not then just adjust the formation on the pitch and give the finger to the manager? It was doable.
Players, no matter what they earn, have been taught from their youth to be pliant servants to the ‘gaffer’.
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Only saw the first half and that was enough...shockingly bad.
Though they were all crap, special mention for Mings, Watkins and McGinn. They were especially proficient in lowering the bar. The minute Mings sliced a simple clearance early on I knew this would be more like the Wolves debacle than previous victories at the Emirates.
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Arsenal were quicker, sharper and forced us into making mistakes with our passing. Only saw it from 1-0 with about 10 mins to go til half time. Thought the penalty was harsh even after a couple replays, but when I saw it again at the end I thought it was probably a penalty. Deano had a point when he said the ref should’ve blown straight after, but could you really see that happening at a full Emirates?
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It's not tactic's but yet he changed them at half time ...
If tactics don't matter why do the staff have a flip book of tactics then talk to subs about before they come on ..
No it's not tactics because that would mean Smith taking ownership of that fh shit show instead he threw the players under the bus ...
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I'm glad it wasn't me then. I went to bed fuming after the 3rd, I'd had a few so woke up thinking I'd over reacted but I didn't, it was that bad.
I hate to say it but Smith looks like he's slowly sacking himself here, I don't want him to go but unless he turns it 'round over the next couple of games he'll be under tremendous pressure.
I can see defeat on Halloween and a huge Bonfire Night match at Southampton that may decide his future.
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I thought Mings was a bit lucky that Lacazette didn't make more out of that elbow early on too, gave him a nice clip.
Not in the slightest, Mings had his arms up before Lacazette got off the ground, the little twat jumped into his arm and then threw himself over like he'd been snipered. Bought the penalty as well, the one thing I agree with Smith on from the post match was that the penalty was soft and the whistle should've gone as soon as it was saved (given it was awarded after the ref had blown for halftime). going in 1-0 down would've massively flattered us but it was a very cheap goal.
I thought we kicked off again after the second goal and then he blew for half time.
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Smith even managed to get the Tarquins singing in the library with that shambles.
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Didn't bother with the second half.
Hear we were better but then, it would have been impossible to be worse.
If he can't set up at least a competent side with the riches at his disposal he should move over for someone who can.
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Smith's post match interview didn't fill me with confidence that he's planning to stop this 3 at the back nonsense anytime soon
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We could have been down more than 2 at half time, Arsenal did a job on us first half and no one looked to know where they were playing or who they needed to pick up.
Ings and Watkins just isn’t working, get back to 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-3 or whatever and play just one up top in the middle where they can actually play in the position they usually play in.
Plenty of effort from Ings but he is a finisher, so having him tracking back or out wide floating about is a total waste.
Defence, Mings needs a game out, play Hause and Konsa in the middle of a back 4.
McGinn needs a game out too, if Sanson is fit then he needs a game, I would be tempted to play Nakamba as a deep holding midfielder too with either Luiz/Sanson or Ramsey/Sanson in front.
Buendia needs to play wide right with Bailey on the opposite flank, as I say with Ings or Olly through the middle.
Get back to basics, play a formation that works and put players in their natural positions.
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What a shit show, you do not solve a problem by repeating the same mistake. The players body language said it all. The system is not working, the last 3 games have shown that the Manager is failing the team.
He is picking the team to accommodate Tuanzabe and 2 up front and has now wasted 3 games and weeks of training and effort.
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What a shit show, you do not solve a problem by repeating the same mistake. The players body language said it all. The system is not working, the last 3 games have shown that the Manager is failing the team.
He is picking the team to accommodate Tuanzabe and 2 up front and has now wasted 3 games and weeks of training and effort.
Yep, that’s how it looks. Accommodating Tuanzebe and Ings is the key mistake in my book. Tuanzebe is no way good enough to be the centre player in a back 3. It was no surprise Mings and Konsa looked back to their normal selves second half. Ings, good striker but doesn’t fit the preferred 4-3-3 for me and is more looking like a panic “quick Grealish is going” signing to me. No surprise Watkins looked more comfortable once he was back in his spearhead role. He should decide on his 4-3-3 format for next week then it’s up to the players to train hard for their place.
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Wow, worst performance in the first half that I can remember from the recent past. Last night was the first time that I came away thinking that we need a manager with more quality - I feel 'dirty' saying it but has Smith reached his ceiling?
I said at half-time that the players seemed to have zero confidence in the system, with 2 players leaving the ball to each other, 3 times in the first half.
Particularly poor:
Mings - really allowed the game to get inside his head and wasn't good.
Tuanzebe - getting worse as the games progress.
McGinn - poor ball retention (perhaps because he was getting the ball from the CB in poor places)
Buendia - too easily brushed aside: the middle of the park does not suit him
Watkins - slow of thought and action (don't understand why he wasn't subbed)
Arsenal played well, with energy and purpose: their new signings look like a snip (the 2 FB and CMF all played excellently).
We've lost the focus and direction, and MacPhee's influence at set pieces is already diminishing.
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The players looked so unhappy in the first half, not knowing where to go, looking exasperated, Mings ar one point doing a "see, i told you that would happen" gesture when something went wrong. It looked like the type of performance that brings about a "crisis meeting" between players and manager.
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The players looked so unhappy in the first half, not knowing where to go, looking exasperated, Mings ar one point doing a "see, i told you that would happen" gesture when something went wrong. It looked like the type of performance that brings about a "crisis meeting" between players and manager.
One of the most successful aspects of our play since project restart has been our huge defensive improvement (15 clean sheets last season) yet changing it to accommodate players has buggered that up.
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I just can't get over how terrible that first half was. The midfield was just non existent. I personally would have shook the whole thing up and made three subs. I think he does need to sit down and make a few decisions, one of them being whether to play Watkins or Ings.
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Martinez 6.5
Targett 4.5
Tuanzebe 5
Konsa 5
Mings 5.5
Cash 5
Luiz 6
McGinn 5
Targett 4.5
Buendia 5.5
Ings 6
Watkins 5.5
Subs
Bailey 7
Ramsey 7
So desperate to scapegoat Targett you've listed him twice! 😄
It isn't healthy the way you get an obsession with certain players.
Could be worse. At least he got the same mark.
I think Footy’s being over-generous giving Targett 9 after that performance and result!
The thing that worries me about the Tuanzebe loan signing is whether there is a clause about his involvement in the 1st team. Smith brought him back when Hause should have retained his place. He also doesn’t think that he can drop Konsa or Mings, so we end up with 3 at the back to accommodate Tuanzebe, who isn’t good enough. If his loan has conditions we may not have seen the last of 3 at the back, sadly. A club in our position shouldn’t be loaning players especially from the likes of MU.
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It would be incredibly stupid to have a clause that we have to pick Tuanzebe a certain number of times and not have one that Ipswich have to pick Barry. Seems entirely plausible, though.
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I doubt there is anything in that clause to be honest. That kind of question gets brought up all the time and there's no proof that we have to play him. I think it's just personal preference.
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Last night was an incoherent shit show. We've had the voodoo over Arsenal for the last two seasons but it vanished in the first ten minutes. We've lost Grealish and John Terry and it has weakened the whole set up. The owners have invested heavily but we are slowly going backwards. Something has to change quickly. They have spent upwards of £200 million and we look no better than a mid table team at best right now.
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That was catastrophically poor. Beyond abysmal and the worst first half performance I can recall in years.
That we got bullied, out run, out pressed and physically dominated by a team as lightweight physically and mentally as Arsenal is an abomination. The blame, like Wolves, rests squarely with one man.
The abject disarray of 3 at the back. The obvious overloads of the wide areas to make it 5 at the back and totally starve the creativity of the side was clear from the the first few minutes. Do we change it? No.
The first goal comes from a corner where Konsa and Cash don't know who their man is and we give away a corner in panic.
A corner which we defend appalling as McGinn, like a coward, ducks. Ducks! Who ducks out the way of a header? Atrocious. 3 men around him and we conspire to concede a goal as bad as that. And the same nearly happens the other side a few minutes later.
The defence hack and slash at the ball as they're spending too much time trying to work out where they ought to be rather than picking up natural positions and concentrating on defending.
The lumping of the ball is abysmal. Mings, Beckenbauer you ain't, you just consistently recycle cheap ball.
Second half the change of system is far more effective. We're still wide open and too loose, but we lay a glove on them.
Buendia should score. But he should also play wide. Its like spending a fortune poaching a top accountant to join your firm and asking them to run your HR department. Full of willing for sure, but he crunches numbers not holiday requests.
McGinn does a hell of a lot of good, but gives the ball away with such maddening frequency.
You pick Ings or Watkins to play up front. You then pick two of Traore, Bailey, Buendia and El Ghazi to play wide of them. You can play Watkins wide, but you cannot keep shoehorning players into unnatural positions.
The game was gone by half time and we were lucky it was only 2.
That we didn't test the absolutely dire Ramsdale with any regularity is inexcusable. I wouldn't pick that mug in my 5 a side team. He has no clue how to control a box and is jittery as anything. We make it easy. Like we did against Spurs and like we did in the last 10 against Wolves.
We're easy to play against and have conceded 6 goals against mid-table dross in 2 games. 8 if we're being really unfair on Spurs. 5 defeats in 9. We're in a relegation scrap, with a manager who is making the same mistakes he made in the Championship.
I wanted him gone last night and wondered if that was an emotional feeling as I'm sick and tired of wasting hours of time for utter trash, taking days off and driving about at half 2 to get home. And pondering doing it again in 2 weeks. But it's not. This has gone on too long.
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Spot on Ads.
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The players looked so unhappy in the first half, not knowing where to go, looking exasperated, Mings ar one point doing a "see, i told you that would happen" gesture when something went wrong. It looked like the type of performance that brings about a "crisis meeting" between players and manager.
One of the most successful aspects of our play since project restart has been our huge defensive improvement (15 clean sheets last season) yet changing it to accommodate players has buggered that up.
Couldn’t agree more. I just can’t understand why he chose to fix a defence that wasn’t broken. If we needed anything to strengthen it at all, it would have been a strong, quick attacking left back as an alternative to Cash. Instead we got the ghost of Ashley Young past, and Tuanzebe’s not so good twin.
He needs to ditch the 3 at the back straight away and sign a written affidavit in blood to that effect , which he should then personally hand to CDBWF for safekeeping.
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Taped it and followed it on the app - just "Chance for Arsenal" on repeat. It read like a complete shit show so no way am I watching that this morning.
Really looking forward to West Ham - not.
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Last night was an incoherent shit show. We've had the voodoo over Arsenal for the last two seasons but it vanished in the first ten minutes. We've lost Grealish and John Terry and it has weakened the whole set up drastically. The owners have invested heavily but we are slowly going backwards. Something has to change quickly. They have spent upwards of £200 million and we look no better than a mid table team at best right now.
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We have now conceded 3 goals on 4 occasions this season and could easily have shipped in more goals at Spurs; the defence looks very vulnerable to put it politely.
I was tempted to say that there is a danger of over reacting to these performances and of "throwing the baby out with the bath water" but the plumbing is that leaky that there is little chance of the bath even filling up at the moment.
We fo look very "unprepared" to say the least .
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Arse fans booing Martinez were beyond pathetic.
No. We would do the same. Martinez has been critical of Arsenal and let's face he will be off as soon as a big Champions League club comes for him.
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Arse fans booing Martinez were beyond pathetic.
No. We would do the same. Martinez has been critical of Arsenal and let's face he will be off as soon as a big Champions League club comes for him.
We were meant to have mega rich owners and this sort of thing was meant to stop.
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If we'd sold one of the best keepers in the world for £20m to replace him for £30m with a pub player who looks like he's coming down off Spice, then I'd be booing.
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I thought Mings was a bit lucky that Lacazette didn't make more out of that elbow early on too, gave him a nice clip.
Not in the slightest, Mings had his arms up before Lacazette got off the ground, the little twat jumped into his arm and then threw himself over like he'd been snipered. Bought the penalty as well, the one thing I agree with Smith on from the post match was that the penalty was soft and the whistle should've gone as soon as it was saved (given it was awarded after the ref had blown for halftime). going in 1-0 down would've massively flattered us but it was a very cheap goal.
All of the schoolboy football magazines, in any quiz about the rules, mention the thing about penalties being taken after the half / full time whistle has blown so that is a schoolboy error by the referee. But I hadn’t thought about it.
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We were poor last night I was there to witness it we really need to buck our ideas up.
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We were all moaning about the international break but it was preferable to watching us the last two weeks!
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I actually enjoyed the international break. Watching Scotland is normally even worse than watching Villa.
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I hate the international break. I hate that we have to wait until next Sunday to put it right. I hate half time when we're losing. We should play West Ham this afternoon and only get a break if we win.
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Absolutely Shambolic and as soon as I seen the starting 11 with that formation I knew what was coming.
Could not string a pass together, sloppy play, losing the ball easily. They all looked frustrated and in a panic. Arguments between players, hands in the air. Not a good look at all.
With the money we have spent and the players at our disposal this is simply unacceptable
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I agree with Flin5tone, either he needs to up his game or Villa do.
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The absolute worst thing is we've got to wait an age before we can see the team play again.
I, just like the Villa ( because the stats don't lie) hate Friday night football with a passion.
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The goal from the corner - why was 5 foot 10 inches McGinn marking their centre half?
For me too many of our players know that however badly they play they will never be dropped - Mings, being a prime example
We need to win next week or their will be massive pressure on The board to make a decision on smith’s future
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The goal from the corner - why was 5 foot 10 inches McGinn marking their centre half?
Doesn't remotely excuse McGinn's lack of effort. Should be trying to block off Parteys's run. Instead he hid.
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What’s really worrying is that each of the defeats has happened in a different way, featuring three teams who beat us tactically by three different methods. I wonder if we’ll ever run out of ways to skin a Villa.
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I thought Mings was a bit lucky that Lacazette didn't make more out of that elbow early on too, gave him a nice clip.
Not in the slightest, Mings had his arms up before Lacazette got off the ground, the little twat jumped into his arm and then threw himself over like he'd been snipered. Bought the penalty as well, the one thing I agree with Smith on from the post match was that the penalty was soft and the whistle should've gone as soon as it was saved (given it was awarded after the ref had blown for halftime). going in 1-0 down would've massively flattered us but it was a very cheap goal.
All of the schoolboy football magazines, in any quiz about the rules, mention the thing about penalties being taken after the half / full time whistle has blown so that is a schoolboy error by the referee. But I hadn’t thought about it.
Because the match was taken back by VAR, the clock is too to the point where the infringement occurred. At that point there were at least 8 seconds on the clock. So there was time for the rebound to be played.
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The absolute worst thing is we've got to wait an age before we can see the team play again.
I, just like the Villa ( because the stats don't lie) hate Friday night football with a passion.
That's not the first time we've done that and come a cropper for it either.
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The goal from the corner - why was 5 foot 10 inches McGinn marking their centre half?
For me too many of our players know that however badly they play they will never be dropped - Mings, being a prime example
We need to win next week or their will be massive pressure on The board to make a decision on smith’s future
Can't see us beating West Ham. Tougher game than the 3 we've just lost.
Not a fixture you'd choose if you're under pressure.
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What’s really worrying is that each of the defeats has happened in a different way, featuring three teams who beat us tactically by three different methods. I wonder if we’ll ever run out of ways to skin a Villa.
yep, good observation.
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Not much to add to this thread. Our worst performance since the first half at Watford.
What is annoying is that Arsenal can be jittery if you get at them and we were utterly dominated in terms of physical effort, enthusiasm and athleticism. We were very lucky to be only a goal down until the penalty- I haven’t watched any highlights back so no idea if it was justified or not, but I have heard that the ref was right to allow the rebound and not just blow up after Martinez’s save.
Slightly better second half but we are porous in defence, ponderous in midfield and the front two look like strangers who’ve been given a task to do on the Apprentice. Even Martinez seemed at fault for their opening goal. The 532 hasn’t been working for a few weeks, though last night was as much a story of poor performance and attitude as much as formation, so I would go back to 433 where the wide players at least carry some threat
Our fans were very subdued and when they came over at the end there were a small number of boos. In contrast, the Arsenal fans were livelier than I’ve heard them at the Emirates. All in all, a shit night.
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Its quite simple
Manager (as much as ai really like the bloke) needs to grow a pair and drop the seemingly undroppable
Mings - 80% good / 20% cock up waiting to happen has suddenly swapped the ratio - would rather Hause next to Konsa
McGinn - at his very best he is an average mid table player - forget all the "One of the lads" comments - he simply is not good enough. Get Sansom fit and get him out
Watkins - currently stinking the place out - control awful (Heskyesque at times) poor decision making, awful shooting ability and simply not the player he was (could it be the England curse as usual?)
Tuanzebe - I'll take the mug back to red filth myself - should never of entertained loaning him from them
Get back to basics
Get back to the successful back 4 (3 5 2 and a win was not tactical genius - more a case of United being shite)
Get balance and ball players in the middle (i will scream like Flanders if McGinn tries another woeful Zidane pass directly to the opposition) Get Sanson in there sharpish
Ings in the middle supported by Buendia on right and Bailey on left
9 out of next 12 or it could be curtains for Dean im afraid
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Pawson and Oliver are supposed to be two of the more competent refs in the Prem, but I can't see a 'clear and obvious' reason to give that penalty against the original decision. Targett clearly plays the ball -he may slightly have grazed Lacazette (who never saw an area of grass he didn't want to lie down on) as well. Lacazette possibly fouls Targett just before the incident as well.
Dean is rightly criticised for the formation, but his comments about shapes being irrelevant makes no sense when you consider the changes he made at half-time which resulted in a much better performance, as shown by the match-stats.