Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on September 09, 2021, 11:35:18 AM
-
Another of our longer efforts.
https://heroesandvillains.info/2021/09/09/what-do-you-want-from-life/
-
A couple of quotes at the end there which really hit close to home. We can only hope that this time it will go right at some point.
-
Beating one of the Manchester clubs in FA cup final would do me and I suspect pretty much everyone else on here pretty nicely I think for rest of our times.
Hope it happens one day but as older generations know the decades pass on very quickly in football sometimes. No one would've probably believed in March 1996 we'd then go over a quarter of a century without winning anything and we're not the only "big" club to have that sort of trophy drought.
-
Southgate’s quote seemed fair enough in many ways under Doug, but will always be mystified as to why he then joined Middlesbrough.
-
I think Southgate may have had his fill of John Gregory (who, to be unkind, could be seen as bit of a Tactics-Tim Sherwood prototype) and while Boro would never have been a top choice of his after Chelsea made eyes the previous summer, he made the most of the situation and left.
-
Its that nagging doubt, when we seem to be on the cusp we somehow manage to fall back. This time with the Idiot and these owners I really thought this was going to be it. It still might be but the last few weeks from the pre season transfer optics on the banks of the Thames, the high profile changes to coaching staff, Watford and now the South American debacle we don't seem to have a big club aura about us. I have no idea why we have taken a loan.
But for me success would be competing for the top 6 places every season and winning a Cup every now and then.
-
It's a money game, when Man City were taken over by world oil they started exactly as we have for the early part, what changed for them was that they offered top players wages that were unheard of. Times have changed but greed will always win out, you want a top player to join Villa then double what any other club would pay him, simple.
-
Southgate’s quote seemed fair enough in many ways under Doug, but will always be mystified as to why he then joined Middlesbrough.
Chelsea wanted him all through summer 2000 but we simply refused to sell even though they bid about 6m in the end which was decent amount in those times.
Said it before but aftermatch of cup final in 2000 was when we went from established top 6 club to just also ran in the league. Chelsea even pre Abrahmovich went ahead of us after winning and so did likes of Leeds and Newcastle for couple of seasons. We also had the odd season finishing above Liverpool in those times.
-
But in answer to the thread title question; not much really. A loving wife, couple of kids and a job without too much stress but one which remunerates generously.
-
My health back.
More seriously...It is a very thought provoking article. I think the first step would be to regain our respect.
-
With what was said, prior to the transfer window opening, I honestly thought that the time had come to make a couple of “name” signings. Instead, we ended up with the usual type of signings we make, bar Ings that is. I also think the majority of us were led to believe we had another couple of worthy signings to make, especially with Shinsplints being sold but, as usual, it all petered out.
Pre season was a total shambles and I’ve yet to see a league match were it has left me feeling that we are going to make any more progress this season. All pre season seemed to achieve was a few crucial injuries to our squad. Being Villa, these players will of course now have to “get up to speed”, “injuries to be managed”, etc.etc.
-
The Ings signing feels like the Bent signing.
-
With what was said, prior to the transfer window opening, I honestly thought that the time had come to make a couple of “name” signings. Instead, we ended up with the usual type of signings we make, bar Ings that is. I also think the majority of us were led to believe we had another couple of worthy signings to make, especially with Shinsplints being sold but, as usual, it all petered out.
Pre season was a total shambles and I’ve yet to see a league match were it has left me feeling that we are going to make any more progress this season. All pre season seemed to achieve was a few crucial injuries to our squad. Being Villa, these players will of course now have to “get up to speed”, “injuries to be managed”, etc.etc.
We can't have legislated for what's happened pre-season and so far, except possibly having a contingency plan for Ratboy, and even then we didn't know what was he as saying to management, but it certainly does feel as though for the past two summers we've been waiting for the big push. I certainly got the impression from an FCG when we first got back up that it was going to be a case of survive the first season then really push the boat out in summer 2020. Then this was going to be the summer when our financial muscle would make itself apparent. Instead we've made some good, solid signings, some overseas gambles where the hits outweigh the misses, but that one big eyebrow-raiser just hasn't happened.
-
It started off badly in the first half at Watford, the week after losing Joe. I know it was first game for a newly promoted side but we looked terrible and the score line only looked presentable after Watford eased off. Everyone with even aspirations of a top half finish will beat Newcastle at home. And we drew with a newly promoted team at VP. We seem to have in a few weeks lost all our momentum from the previous season. We dont seem to be acting like we have the third richest owners and in fact have the lowest net spend in the league.
The National manager has rubbed our noses in it by his refusal to pick Joe when he played for us and has since picked him as many times as he has actually played for City in one week. Our Captain was unable to play against Brentford but played for England instead. We sent two of our better players to Brazil to play for 5 minutes and now they can’t play for us. We purchased a French player at a bargain price in January but he’s been injured ever since, we broke our transfer record for a player who is also injured but travels to play for his country.
We are now staring down the barrel of possibly 5 defeats on the bounce but I think that’s unlikely but we won’t win many of them either!
It’s a bit tough being us at the moment!
-
This is exactly how I have been feeling, almost to the letter. I will reserve judgement for now, but along with being grateful we aren't in administration, I am far from convinced we are seriously trying to break into the 'elite'.
I think a lot of this is as a result of captain fantastic leaving - it all has the whiff of when we started to lose the core of the last nearly-made-it team we've had at the Villa - I can still hear fans singing "one-Randy Lerner" when Milner & MON left, but that was the start of a steady decline as we all now know.
People keep using Leicester as an example of 'how to do it', and I get why, but they are an anomaly. If we really (really!) do want to break into the CL consistently we will need that statement. Juries out.
-
The Ings signing feels like the Bent signing.
Yup
-
Personally, I just want to get there in as short a time as possible. Abramovich and the City owners couldn't wait to spend. Look how little time it took them to win anything. This will be the fourth year of NSWE ownership and the third in the Prem, and while you can point to the pandemic as a cautionary factor, I want excitement now, not seasonal progression. I want silver.
I'm not criticising NSWE, by the way. They've been lavish. But call me selfish if you like, I'd like us to have been coming into this difficult period thinking it's not us being the team it'll be difficult for.
-
An interview from Edens or Sawiris would be most timely (as long as they say exciting things).
-
I do wonder whether the lack of that statement signing could be manager related. Maybe they don't trust Dean Smith enough to buy big now, and are waiting to see what happens. I've wondered that for a while, which is unfair given the very solid job Dean has done so far.
As for what I want from (Villa) life - I want Villa to play exciting football and be capable of beating any team we play. We saw that for a few months last season and it was wonderful to watch. Do that and the trophies will follow.
-
I do wonder whether the lack of that statement signing could be manager related. Maybe they don't trust Dean Smith enough to buy big now, and are waiting to see what happens. I've wondered that for a while, which is unfair given the very solid job Dean has done so far.
That's a bit where I'm at too. I also wonder if part of it is the way Dean either prefers to operate or is used to operating, like preferring players who he can mould or come under the radar. In a way that's how Spuds reached the next level: lots of good German, Dutch and Spanish based players. But to me, you won't win the Prem always shopping at Aldi - sometimes you need to pick something up at M&S.
-
I do wonder whether the lack of that statement signing could be manager related. Maybe they don't trust Dean Smith enough to buy big now, and are waiting to see what happens. I've wondered that for a while, which is unfair given the very solid job Dean has done so far.
That's a bit where I'm at too. I also wonder if part of it is the way Dean either prefers to operate or is used to operating, like preferring players who he can mould or come under the radar. In a way that's how Spuds reached the next level: lots of good German, Dutch and Spanish based players. But to me, you won't win the Prem always shopping at Aldi - sometimes you need to pick something up at M&S.
Exactly, they are doing most things right, but need to get to feckin M&S sharpish.
-
I want Aston Villa to win the FA Cup. Nothing else.
-
An interview from Edens or Sawiris would be most timely (as long as they say exciting things).
I remember Dave a while ago printing a distillation of what makes a winning team. One of the points read something like 'owners who do not interfere with playing matters and do not seek attention' 10 out of 10 for Messrs Edens and Sawiris so far on this score. TBH I don't even know what they look like and keep forgetting their names.
-
An interview from Edens or Sawiris would be most timely (as long as they say exciting things).
I remember Dave a while ago printing a distillation of what makes a winning team. One of the points read something like 'owners who do not interfere with playing matters and do not seek attention' 10 out of 10 for Messrs Edens and Sawiris so far on this score. TBH I don't even know what they look like and keep forgetting their names.
Abramovich? Glazers? Shaikh Monsoor? These are hardly shrinking violets.
We either buy into the fact that winning stuff consistently is predicated on fuck tones of money or accept we won’t do that (and try and ‘do a Leicester’).
-
The respect of our peers, the fear of our enemies, the titles of our rivals, the blood of the Bourgeoisie and every day bringing new sexy wild times.
-
To be fair, even though you tend (or tended to) see those owners regularly at games, you heard from them relatively rarely. That's your ideal Prem owner: pockets open, trap shut.
The Leicester thing will do nothing for quite a number of ambitious mid-table clubs, and in its way is as short-sighted an approach as spunking all you have over one or two transfer windows. Leicester winning the title is a once in fifty years event - they were 5000-1 for a reason - but it will have convinced a bunch of romantic chumps that you don't have to break the bank to regularly win stuff, so they'll spend a decade bleeding themselves dry rather than a couple of years.
-
With what was said, prior to the transfer window opening, I honestly thought that the time had come to make a couple of “name” signings. Instead, we ended up with the usual type of signings we make, bar Ings that is. I also think the majority of us were led to believe we had another couple of worthy signings to make, especially with Shinsplints being sold but, as usual, it all petered out.
Pre season was a total shambles and I’ve yet to see a league match were it has left me feeling that we are going to make any more progress this season. All pre season seemed to achieve was a few crucial injuries to our squad. Being Villa, these players will of course now have to “get up to speed”, “injuries to be managed”, etc.etc.
Leon Bailey imo is one of the best signings we've made in years in proven category.
Unless I've missed us signing in last decade guys who regularly hits double figures in top 5 league from wide position and has great expereince in europa and CL.
Sign 2-3 more of that type and we'll be qualifying for europa in next few years. Tricky part is to do that keeping what we have.
-
The respect of our peers, the fear of our enemies, the titles of our rivals, the blood of the Bourgeoisie and every day bringing new sexy wild times.
Mid table consolidation then, yeah?
-
Yeah, go on then.
-
An interview from Edens or Sawiris would be most timely (as long as they say exciting things).
I remember Dave a while ago printing a distillation of what makes a winning team. One of the points read something like 'owners who do not interfere with playing matters and do not seek attention' 10 out of 10 for Messrs Edens and Sawiris so far on this score. TBH I don't even know what they look like and keep forgetting their names.
Abramovich? Glazers? Shaikh Monsoor? These are hardly shrinking violets.
We either buy into the fact that winning stuff consistently is predicated on fuck tones of money or accept we won’t do that (and try and ‘do a Leicester’).
The Ellis approach still casts a shadow over us in this respect. I don't want to hear from the owners. I don't particularly want to see them, unless it's in the royal box. I want them to employ people to do the sort of things that the travel agent used to pay himself to do and let them get on with it.
-
I want us to buy the title and be called plastic fans on Wembley Way as we prepare to swot some also ran aside for yet another trophy.
I'm not joking
-
An interview from Edens or Sawiris would be most timely (as long as they say exciting things).
I remember Dave a while ago printing a distillation of what makes a winning team. One of the points read something like 'owners who do not interfere with playing matters and do not seek attention' 10 out of 10 for Messrs Edens and Sawiris so far on this score. TBH I don't even know what they look like and keep forgetting their names.
Abramovich? Glazers? Shaikh Monsoor? These are hardly shrinking violets.
We either buy into the fact that winning stuff consistently is predicated on fuck tones of money or accept we won’t do that (and try and ‘do a Leicester’).
The Ellis approach still casts a shadow over us in this respect. I don't want to hear from the owners. I don't particularly want to see them, unless it's in the royal box. I want them to employ people to do the sort of things that the travel agent used to pay himself to do and let them get on with it.
Aye. It’s interesting isn’t it., these figures and their behaviour while at the helm have an indelible imprint on the soul (or something less significant) of the club and our expectations of it.,
-
I want us to buy the title and be called plastic fans on Wembley Way as we prepare to swot some also ran aside for yet another trophy.
I'm not joking
What did I always say? To get to where we want we have to become what we hate.
-
I want the Cup first. That's the only one I haven't seen.
I think we're building fir long term, sustainable success rather than a short term thing, hence the usual signings of younger players and the very big investment in the Academy.
-
I think you're spot on with what we're doing, Drummond. I just wish it was a little less HS2; none of us are getting any younger and I'd like a go on it before I die.
-
I want us to buy the title and be called plastic fans on Wembley Way as we prepare to swot some also ran aside for yet another trophy.
I'm not joking
What did I always say? To get to where we want we have to become what we hate.
Perhaps it's my age but I don't want to be like Man City. Yes I want to win things but that sort of domination that leads to complacency and removes the unpredictability that I think the game thrives on.
I'd be happy with a trophy every few years, and decent finishes in the top flight. You might want to chuck in the title if you're feeling generous.
-
When you haven't won anything for over quarter of a century trying many different approaches (could argue we tried the quick fit route under Lerner but just signed too many similar players) then really patience is quite thin. I do think it's been decided at the top to make this a holding season if you like and brief to DS is to promote as many ready young players into matchday 20 as possible and play some of them when possible.
Sort of what we did from 2010-12 but hopefully we're in a better place as a club now and certainly got better senior players to step up when needed. We'll see in about two years whether this strategy was right.
The Brief to DS will also be try your best to finish top 10 and have a good cup run doing that rather than bombing down to 15-16th and losing in 3rd round of FA cup.
My hunch is while the manager has done very well so far I'm not convinced at all he's got enough about him to eventually push us into the top bracket of clubs. Think it's a bit like Solskjaer at Man. United. Won't win anything of note but in a few years his work will be more valued at pushing them in right direction before a Conte came in and got them the trophies.
Think it will be same for DS here and get the feeling we'll reach point in next 18 months when we have to make that decision.
-
I want us to buy the title and be called plastic fans on Wembley Way as we prepare to swot some also ran aside for yet another trophy.
I'm not joking
What did I always say? To get to where we want we have to become what we hate.
Perhaps it's my age but I don't want to be like Man City. Yes I want to win things but that sort of domination that leads to complacency and removes the unpredictability that I think the game thrives on.
I'd be happy with a trophy every few years, and decent finishes in the top flight. You might want to chuck in the title if you're feeling generous.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I don't want us to absolutely dominate the game. I'd genuinely rather be in a situation that we were during the 90s. Regular cup finals, but not so regular that they lose the novelty. A charge at the league title every 4 or 5 years. That, I think, is the key to happiness in football. Being good enough to win stuff, but not so good that "winning stuff" isn't enough. I want us to have a pop at a European trophy every so often.
I like wandering around North Wales and seeing the odd person in a Villa shirt, exchanging "Up the Villa"s with them. It's a rare enough event that it makes both of you smile, but common enough that you get to do it a few times a year. A big club, but one who people support because they love the Villa, not just the trophies we pick up along the way. I want Villa Park to have atmosphere. I don't want to go to watch football in The Emirates or The Emptihad, where there's no atmosphere because everyone's too busy savouring 'the experience' of their one day there. I want it to be noisy, intimidating, somewhere special to take the kids.
-
Agree with that article completely and the Juninho picture very appropriate. Was gutted we missed him, especially since he'd actually been to the ground for talks.
The one that's nagging away at me now is Kalvin Phillips. Leeds of course wouldn't sell and it's a good sign that we'd identified him for purchase but a massive shame we couldn't get him, how good is he now? He's absolutely perfect as that missing piece in this current team. That was 2 years ago though and you would have thought they would have found a proper alternative by now, i think Nakamba was the second choice at the time but there's no comparison. The big thing for me is that like the article says, we were always one or two short back in the 90's and it's still the case now, despite all the big talk. Very good owners but i wish they would either follow up on the talk or not talk at all.
Personally, i'd like to see us as we were in the 90's but throw a league title and an FA Cup into it. Regular European football, top half pretty much all the time and a few big trophies. We don't have to become Man City or Chelsea although i wouldn't complain.
-
I want us to buy the title and be called plastic fans on Wembley Way as we prepare to swot some also ran aside for yet another trophy.
I'm not joking
What did I always say? To get to where we want we have to become what we hate.
Perhaps it's my age but I don't want to be like Man City. Yes I want to win things but that sort of domination that leads to complacency and removes the unpredictability that I think the game thrives on.
I'd be happy with a trophy every few years, and decent finishes in the top flight. You might want to chuck in the title if you're feeling generous.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I don't want us to absolutely dominate the game. I'd genuinely rather be in a situation that we were during the 90s. Regular cup finals, but not so regular that they lose the novelty. A charge at the league title every 4 or 5 years. That, I think, is the key to happiness in football. Being good enough to win stuff, but not so good that "winning stuff" isn't enough. I want us to have a pop at a European trophy every so often.
I like wandering around North Wales and seeing the odd person in a Villa shirt, exchanging "Up the Villa"s with them. It's a rare enough event that it makes both of you smile, but common enough that you get to do it a few times a year. A big club, but one who people support because they love the Villa, not just the trophies we pick up along the way. I want Villa Park to have atmosphere. I don't want to go to watch football in The Emirates or The Emptihad, where there's no atmosphere because everyone's too busy savouring 'the experience' of their one day there. I want it to be noisy, intimidating, somewhere special to take the kids.
Count me in with this.
-
Overall, I'd be most happy with Wenger-era Arsenal, long before he was past his sell-by date. Good football, legitimate title challengers, attract CL level players and regular FA Cup winners.
-
For those who don't want us to dominate... say we were top of the league and still in the FA Cup, League Cup and European Cup. Which competition would you want us to lose in?
-
I want us to buy the title and be called plastic fans on Wembley Way as we prepare to swot some also ran aside for yet another trophy.
I'm not joking
What did I always say? To get to where we want we have to become what we hate.
Perhaps it's my age but I don't want to be like Man City. Yes I want to win things but that sort of domination that leads to complacency and removes the unpredictability that I think the game thrives on.
I'd be happy with a trophy every few years, and decent finishes in the top flight. You might want to chuck in the title if you're feeling generous.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I don't want us to absolutely dominate the game. I'd genuinely rather be in a situation that we were during the 90s. Regular cup finals, but not so regular that they lose the novelty. A charge at the league title every 4 or 5 years. That, I think, is the key to happiness in football. Being good enough to win stuff, but not so good that "winning stuff" isn't enough. I want us to have a pop at a European trophy every so often.
I like wandering around North Wales and seeing the odd person in a Villa shirt, exchanging "Up the Villa"s with them. It's a rare enough event that it makes both of you smile, but common enough that you get to do it a few times a year. A big club, but one who people support because they love the Villa, not just the trophies we pick up along the way. I want Villa Park to have atmosphere. I don't want to go to watch football in The Emirates or The Emptihad, where there's no atmosphere because everyone's too busy savouring 'the experience' of their one day there. I want it to be noisy, intimidating, somewhere special to take the kids.
Count me in with this.
Me too -“ Being good enough to win stuff, but not so good that "winning stuff" isn't enough.”
-
I want us to win everything with the best players in the world all brought through from our youth set up which has a constant supply of skillful players so that when one of their heads are turned by a plastic club we have a ready replacement who is equal or better. I want us to be the club, the only club who doesn't buy proven players, but the club that manufactures them and they grow with us. If they all happen to be Brummies from a long line of Brumminess with a smattering of Irish then even better.
-
For those who don't want us to dominate... say we were top of the league and still in the FA Cup, League Cup and European Cup. Which competition would you want us to lose in?
Goal of the month
-
For those who don't want us to dominate... say we were top of the league and still in the FA Cup, League Cup and European Cup. Which competition would you want us to lose in?
Already too billy big bollocks for the Birmingham Senior Cup, then?
-
The Villa to win the FA Cup and me to have a key for the playboy mansion.
Assuming someone replaced Hugh…
-
For those who don't want us to dominate... say we were top of the league and still in the FA Cup, League Cup and European Cup. Which competition would you want us to lose in?
Already too billy big bollocks for the Birmingham Senior Cup, then?
Sadly we seemed to think we were even in all those 2010s years when we were shit.
-
I want Aston Villa to win the FA Cup. Nothing else.
i also want to win the FA cup and then again and again until we’ve won it most out of all the clubs. Add to that regular top 6 finishes with the odd champions league foray thrown in and that’s what success looks like for me. When I was a kid we were definitely seen as a successful club and had the most FA cup wins (7) out of every club. We’re still on 7 and there must be clubs in double figures now. Can’t really ever see us winning the league or European cup again in my lifetime unless something radically changes in the game e.g. salary cap.
-
Arsenal -14
Man Utd - 12
Chelsea - 8
Tottenham - 8
Liverpool also have 7.
-
I want us to buy the title and be called plastic fans on Wembley Way as we prepare to swot some also ran aside for yet another trophy.
I'm not joking
What did I always say? To get to where we want we have to become what we hate.
Perhaps it's my age but I don't want to be like Man City. Yes I want to win things but that sort of domination that leads to complacency and removes the unpredictability that I think the game thrives on.
I'd be happy with a trophy every few years, and decent finishes in the top flight. You might want to chuck in the title if you're feeling generous.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I don't want us to absolutely dominate the game. I'd genuinely rather be in a situation that we were during the 90s. Regular cup finals, but not so regular that they lose the novelty. A charge at the league title every 4 or 5 years. That, I think, is the key to happiness in football. Being good enough to win stuff, but not so good that "winning stuff" isn't enough. I want us to have a pop at a European trophy every so often.
I like wandering around North Wales and seeing the odd person in a Villa shirt, exchanging "Up the Villa"s with them. It's a rare enough event that it makes both of you smile, but common enough that you get to do it a few times a year. A big club, but one who people support because they love the Villa, not just the trophies we pick up along the way. I want Villa Park to have atmosphere. I don't want to go to watch football in The Emirates or The Emptihad, where there's no atmosphere because everyone's too busy savouring 'the experience' of their one day there. I want it to be noisy, intimidating, somewhere special to take the kids.
Count me in with this.
Me too -“ Being good enough to win stuff, but not so good that "winning stuff" isn't enough.”
And me.
I want us to earn it rather than buy it, which seems to be the route we're taking. Aided by a horrific amount of money, of course.
-
I want us to be as good as Liverpool. I want us to play like Liverpool and be in with a chance of winning something every season. I want us to be in the Champions league and in with a shout of winning it. I would say I want their manager - he's by some distance my favourite manager in the league - but I'd be equally happy having Smith evolve into this.
We have the history and potentially can have the stadium. We have one of the best youth set-ups in the country and wealthy owners invested in the buisiness
Yes Liverpool spend money, but not in the same way Man City or Chelsea do.
Net spend:
2017
Man City – £163.93million
Man Utd – £102.51million
Liverpool – £31.68million
Chelsea – £8.28million
Tottenham – £12.51million profit
Arsenal – £15.72million profit
2018
Liverpool – £98.69million
Man City – £86.03million
Arsenal – £73.9million
Chelsea – £64.56million
Man Utd – £53.41million
Tottenham – £25.56million
2019
Arsenal – £91.12million
Man City – £72.84million
Tottenham – £65.83million
Man Utd – £65.79million
Chelsea – £56.27million profit
Liverpool – £61.11million profit
2020
Chelsea – £165.8million
Man Utd – £108.72million
Tottenham – £92.43million
Man City – £75.28million
Arsenal – £64.66million
Liverpool – £63.9million
2021
Man Utd – £92.07million
Man City – £83.88million
Arsenal – £77.4million
Chelsea – £64.02million*
Liverpool – £11.22million
Tottenham – £3.78million profit
Total net spend (5 seasons):
Man City – £481.96million
Man Utd – £422.5million
Arsenal – £291.36million
Chelsea – £246.39million
Tottenham – £167.53million
Liverpool – £144.38million
Is that too much to ask?
-
Arsenal -14
Man Utd - 12
Chelsea - 8
Tottenham - 8
Liverpool also have 7.
Even more depressing, wins since we last won it:
Arsenal 11
Man U 10
Chelsea 8
Liverpool 7
Spurs 6
-
Arsenal -14
Man Utd - 12
Chelsea - 8
Tottenham - 8
Liverpool also have 7.
Even more depressing, wins since we last won it:
Arsenal 11
Man U 10
Chelsea 8
Liverpool 7
Spurs 6
😢