Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: chrisw1 on August 06, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
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We now seem to have quite a few exciting options, but I'm not a fan of trying to shoe horn in every player just because we can.
I don't really like 4-4-2 and am wondering what the plan is for Ings. He does tend to drop deep to pick up the ball, as does Ollie. Are we planning to play one of them more as a 10, or planning to push Ollie wide. Or will we rotate them a bit, which may be the more sensible option but feels unlikley.
I'm also concerned that most our wide players favour the right - Buendia, Bailey, Traore and, if used wide, Watkins I think. I'm guessing we'll push Bailey to the left.
I suspect we'll look like this,
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Buendia McGinn Nakamba Bailey
Watkins Ings
or maybe
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Nakamba
Bailey Buendia Watkins
Ings
What do you think?
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Second option. With Buendia drifting to the left to cover ollie who will get in the box when attacking down the right
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We now seem to have quite a few exciting options, but I'm not a fan of trying to shoe horn in every player just because we can.
I don't really like 4-4-2 and am wondering what the plan is for Ings. He does tend to drop deep to pick up the ball, as does Ollie. Are we planning to play one of them more as a 10, or planning to push Ollie wide. Or will we rotate them a bit, which may be the more sensible option but feels unlikley.
I'm also concerned that most our wide players favour the right - Buendia, Bailey, Traore and, if used wide, Watkins I think. I'm guessing we'll push Bailey to the left.
I suspect we'll look like this,
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Buendia McGinn Nakamba Bailey
Watkins Ings
or maybe
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Nakamba
Bailey Buendia Watkins
Ings
What do you think?
I think we need a keeper.
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It’s an interesting question and I think will test Deans ability to be more flexible than he has previously in terms of tactics and personnel. Hope he’s up to it as the squad has the potential to go somewhere special - especially if we get another couple of additions as expected. Whilst not answering the question can I add another - do we know if it’s 3 subs or 5 this season ? Whilst I was fiercely against 5 subs last season I think it may help us give more game time to the Ramsay’s and Carney as they develop.
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Ings will surely be up top with ollie drifting in. Ollie did tend to drift in and out on the left last year so can see that.
Its certainly going to keep opponents guessing
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I cannot work it out. My only conclusion is we will have options.
We probably needs to shift a few players otherwise we could have bomb squad rotting the morale from the inside.
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I cannot work it out. My only conclusion is we will have options.
We probably needs to shift a few players otherwise we could have bomb squad rotting the morale from the inside.
Trez would have been sold if i qas manager had he not been injured. Also AEG. Other than that we dont need to sell anyone else
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Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Nakamba
Bailey Buendia Watkins
Ings
this would be my starting 11
UTV
The Doc
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Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Nakamba
Bailey Buendia Watkins
Ings
this would be my starting 11
UTV
The Doc
About right I think - I think Luiz could replace Nakamba (or a new signing could).
For games we need to be a bit more pragmatic I think we could shuffle to
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Nakamba
McGinn Sanson
Buendia Watkins
Ings
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I suspect given Dean called Bailey a striker, that it's a flexible front three with Ings central, Bailey right and Ollie left, Emi 2 No. 10 then two of McGinn or Sanson and Marv or Doug at the base of the midfield triangle.
Certainly a change in shape, but to be fair there are so many options, which should allow us to adpt more.
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Personally not convinced Watkins is good enough as a winger or deserves to be moved from the main striker role. His pressing last year was key for us and that would be lost if he also has to protect his full-back.
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Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Nakamba
Bailey Buendia Watkins
Ings
this would be my starting 11
UTV
The Doc
that's not far off how I see it though I have a nagging doubt about negating possibly our best striker by playing Ings up top. Leftfield but how about a diamond formation
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Nakamba
Buendia McGinn
Bailey
Wakins
Ings
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First game that lineup will be nothing like everyone thinks
He’s a cautious man is Smith he doesn’t throw everyone in straight away you’ll get Watkins El ghazi Traore
Maybe one of the forward newcomers will start rest will be on the bench
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I think we'll have a far more flexible formation, drifting between 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-1-4-1, and 4-4-2 during the game. With that, I think we'll see more squad rotation in the midfield and attacking positions - not so much to combat fatigue, but so we can dramatically alter our style between (within?) games. We've got a far stronger squad now, with less drop off between the options on each position.
Can see a regular back 5 of Martinez, Cash, Konsa, Mings & Targett. Then a central midfield that at various times sees Nakamba, Sanson, McGinn, Luiz, and maybe another playing their part.
We've plenty of options on both wings; Traore, Buendia, El Ghazi, Bailey. Either Buendia or Cantwell (if he joins) in the 10 role when we're playing one. Then either Watkins or Ings up front, or both playing if we're going 4-4-2 or 4-3-3.
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First game that lineup will be nothing like everyone thinks
He’s a cautious man is Smith he doesn’t throw everyone in straight away you’ll get Watkins El ghazi Traore
Maybe one of the forward newcomers will start rest will be on the bench
I get what you're saying but it definitely won't be that 3. Buendia and Watkins will both 100% start against Watford and there's no chance that Traore will. We'll know on Ings tomorrow but I don't think Bailey will start for a few weeks. It's more about Fitness and training time than anything else though.
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First game that lineup will be nothing like everyone thinks
He’s a cautious man is Smith he doesn’t throw everyone in straight away you’ll get Watkins El ghazi Traore
Maybe one of the forward newcomers will start rest will be on the bench
Emi2 will probably start because he's been with the squad a while. Ings would have no problem starting straight away.
It's Bailey who I expect not to see at all in the first game. Maybe an appearance from the bench against Brentford Newcastle.
EDIT - Keep forgetting that the first game is away at Watford
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Personally not convinced Watkins is good enough as a winger or deserves to be moved from the main striker role. His pressing last year was key for us and that would be lost if he also has to protect his full-back.
I kind of agree, although you may be surprised how hard Ings works.
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Personally not convinced Watkins is good enough as a winger or deserves to be moved from the main striker role. His pressing last year was key for us and that would be lost if he also has to protect his full-back.
I kind of agree, although you may be surprised how hard Ings works.
For me it should be one or the other rather than trying to crow bar both into every line-up.
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If Watkins and Ings play together I hope it's as a 9 and 10 (respectively) rather than us shoe-horning Watkins out on to the wing. Ings is a fantastic player but Watkins is still the best pressing 9 at the club and his energy was a huge part of what we did well last year.
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A Wenger style 442?
Bergkamp and Henry = Ings and Watkins.
Overmars = Bailey
Romford Pele / Viera/ Lundberg = McGinn / ????? / Buendia.
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I cannot work it out. My only conclusion is we will have options.
We probably needs to shift a few players otherwise we could have bomb squad rotting the morale from the inside.
I actually don't get that vibe. One thing I would say about this team they're all very likeable. We've got rid of the last weed in the garden yesterday. It was covered by flowers but we soon picked it out.
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I suspect given Dean called Bailey a striker, that it's a flexible front three with Ings central, Bailey right and Ollie left, Emi 2 No. 10 then two of McGinn or Sanson and Marv or Doug at the base of the midfield triangle.
Certainly a change in shape, but to be fair there are so many options, which should allow us to adpt more.
Yes I can see us going more Liverpool like
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First game that lineup will be nothing like everyone thinks
He’s a cautious man is Smith he doesn’t throw everyone in straight away you’ll get Watkins El ghazi Traore
Maybe one of the forward newcomers will start rest will be on the bench
I think this is exactly right John. Smith is cautious and although an attacking coach, rarely throws caution to the wind. It’s doubtful that Bailey will have had that much time in the country never mind working on tactics with his teammates. Does he have to isolate for 10 days when arriving from the Caribbean??
Buendia has been with the club for a couple of months and will start I think and he may at a push play Ings as well, but at least one of if note both Traore and/El Ghazi will start I feel, probably El Ghazi given Traores had an op.
My guess for the line up/formation against Watford is this:
Martinez
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Targett
McGinn. Nakamba
Buendia
El Ghazi. Ings. Watkins
With Watkins and Ings inter changing. Could even be Traore on the right El Ghazi on the left and Watkins up front with Ings on the bench.
Not saying this will be the team/formation going forwards.
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Is Traore injured at the moment?
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First game that lineup will be nothing like everyone thinks
He’s a cautious man is Smith he doesn’t throw everyone in straight away you’ll get Watkins El ghazi Traore
Maybe one of the forward newcomers will start rest will be on the bench
I think this is exactly right John. Smith is cautious and although an attacking coach, rarely throws caution to the wind. It’s doubtful that Bailey will have had that much time in the country never mind working on tactics with his teammates. Does he have to isolate for 10 days when arriving from the Caribbean??
Buendia has been with the club for a couple of months and will start I think and he may at a push play Ings as well, but at least one of if note both Traore and/El Ghazi will start I feel, probably El Ghazi given Traores had an op.
My guess for the line up/formation against Watford is this:
Martinez
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Targett
McGinn. Nakamba
Buendia
El Ghazi. Ings. Watkins
With Watkins and Ings inter changing. Could even be Traore on the right El Ghazi on the left and Watkins up front with Ings on the bench.
Not saying this will be the team/formation going forwards.
El Ghazi is usually fairly poor on the right, much more of a threat on the left where his shoot on sight policy can pay dividends at times but left wing seems a very competitive spot. Agreed on Buendia starting for sure if fit. I can't really figure out the rest. McGinn on the right maybe, would definitely prefer him further forward this season. Despite his best efforts, his passing isn't really good enough to play in a deep midfield two. Saw best off him at Spurs when he had licence to press from the front.
Sanson might come into the reckoning for Watford if he is fit? Diamond maybe with Watkins drifting to left. Smith has always been a big fan of the two number 8s as he calls it.
-----Nakamba
McGinn, Sanson/new signing
------Buendia
Ings, Watkins
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4-3-3
Martinez
Cash
Targett
Konsa
Mings
Nakamba
McGinn
Buendia
Bailey
Ings
Watkins
Subs from
Steer
Guilbert
Hause
Young
Sanson
Ramsey
Luiz
Traore
El Ghazi
Davis
Plus the youngsters.
I’d sell Hourahane and loan Wesley out.
The obvious one from the starting line up is Nakamba to drop down to the subs. He’s more at their level, ok as back up but not likely to push for Europe. I think a right sided centre back for the squad is important, maybe another GK and possibly another attacking midfielder so we could then loan Ramsey out. Otherwise ok I think, anything else a bonus.
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With all the respects to Watford I would like us to win against a promoted team and clean sheet whichever team wile first line up with. Even have Ashley Young in Vs his boyhood club and the experience.
Similarly with Newcastle and Brentford at home with the game being after international period Vs Chelsea we see all our signings settled and see how good we are as a top test for the team.
This season rotating could be more of a thing for Dean. I think it needs to be.
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Watford will want to come at us from the off
Newly promoted they will want to start with a flurry
We’ve not been too good at handling that in the past
With the squad we have we need to fight fire with fire
Don’t let them get a toehold in
We have quality all over the pitch and we need to show it from kick off
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Wouldn't surprise me after signing Ings and Axel if we go 5-3-2 this season. Buendia and Mcginn as CM in front of a DM
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Watford will want to come at us from the off
Newly promoted they will want to start with a flurry
We’ve not been too good at handling that in the past
With the squad we have we need to fight fire with fire
Don’t let them get a toehold in
We have quality all over the pitch and we need to show it from kick off
Today is actually 6 years to the day since we won at newly promoted Bournemouth on first day of 15/16 season. Blimey remember the euphoria after that when the new French lads looked decent, defensively we did o.k and Gestede powering in the corner had us all convinced he'd be better than Benteke.
Oh dear. As nice as it is to win the first game it's pretty irrelevant to how the season will go, more important how the following 9 games go after that as a decent guide.
Like many I don't have a clue how we line up next week. I do think the midfield will be Nakamba-McGinn-Buendia and defence picks itself but no idea on what we'll do either side of that in final third.
Probably see likes of El Ghazi starting early weeks just for continuity and he obviously ended last season pretty well.
One thing I will say though....zero excuse for DS this season in games we're winning or losing to only starting thinking of subs from 75th minute onwards. We now have a very competitive squad that can do well in the league and also be competitive in the cups so he must simply use it and rotate when required.
Even in an area we're light in which is defensive midfield we will probably have Doug back as sub option by end of August and he isn't a bad one to put on for last 20 minutes if we're winning, did well in that situation at Spurs so hopefully the manager dosen't sit on his hands if games are drifting away from us and we can actually win a few more from behind as that stopped us getting into the top 10. Very good frontrunners in games but not too much belief if we were a goal down with 25 minutes left we could get anything. That must change this year.
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Watford will want to come at us from the off
Newly promoted they will want to start with a flurry
We’ve not been too good at handling that in the past
With the squad we have we need to fight fire with fire
Don’t let them get a toehold in
We have quality all over the pitch and we need to show it from kick off
Today is actually 6 years to the day since we won at newly promoted Bournemouth on first day of 15/16 season. Blimey remember the euphoria after that when the new French lads looked decent, defensively we did o.k and Gestede powering in the corner had us all convinced he'd be better than Benteke.
Oh dear. As nice as it is to win the first game it's pretty irrelevant to how the season will go, more important how the following 9 games go after that as a decent guide.
Like many I don't have a clue how we line up next week. I do think the midfield will be Nakamba-McGinn-Buendia and defence picks itself but no idea on what we'll do either side of that in final third.
Probably see likes of El Ghazi starting early weeks just for continuity and he obviously ended last season pretty well.
One thing I will say though....zero excuse for DS this season in games we're winning or losing to only starting thinking of subs from 75th minute onwards. We now have a very competitive squad that can do well in the league and also be competitive in the cups so he must simply use it and rotate when required.
Even in an area we're light in which is defensive midfield we will probably have Doug back as sub option by end of August and he isn't a bad one to put on for last 20 minutes if we're winning, did well in that situation at Spurs so hopefully the manager dosen't sit on his hands if games are drifting away from us and we can actually win a few more from behind as that stopped us getting into the top 10. Very good frontrunners in games but not too much belief if we were a goal down with 25 minutes left we could get anything. That must change this year.
Gobsmacked only 6 years ago. Seems a lifetime withall that's happened since.
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What was our formation today?
See Ings and Ollie were starting so interested how it worked, did Ings drop deep or Watkins go out wide when in/out possesion?
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Yes what was the starting formation today?
That such a telling sign.
Someone help us , well mine and SC HQ, with our enquires!
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Looked like a 4-4-2 with Nakamba and McGinn in central midfield. Ings seemed to drop off Watkins at times, whether that was a deliberate tactic or just how he works am not sure.
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Thanks.
Well if they are the 2 in the midfield that's a solid as we can get at this time.
Up front Can see that with Watkins and Ings being just off as number 10 but imagine lots of flexibility in the forward line
Wondering with Tuanzebe how real the chance for the 3-5-2?
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Smith is not a fan of 3 at the back, so I do not think we are going that route.
Ings will play off OLLIE.
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Can't say I'm thrilled about the idea of a 4-4-2. Spurs and Man City do it, but they play basically with two false 9s and, usually, a pure holding midfielder. We have two pure 9s and two false holding midfielders. I appreciate very much having a squad, but as Plan A this strikes me as all shades of wrong, not particularly playing to anyone's strengths.
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I don't think our centre midfielders are good enough to only play with two of them.
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It would have merits on occasion. We looked much better when we went to 4-4-2 against Fulham and that was with Davis and Watkins.
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I think the only time I'd like to see it would actually be against Man City, and possibly Man Utd. It's a good formation for a high-pressure counterattacking kind of game when you don't have much of the ball. Otherwise, I think we'd lack movement, creativity and security against the break.
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It really depends where Danny Ings is played. If he plays where Barkley was then 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 really isn’t that different to the 4-2-3-1. It’s still two in the middle, it’s still two wingers and it’s still Watkins pressing high.
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It really depends where Danny Ings is played. If he plays where Barkley was then 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 really isn’t that different to the 4-2-3-1. It’s still two in the middle, it’s still two wingers and it’s still Watkins pressing high.
Is that really Ings’ best position though? I had him down as more of an ‘on the shoulder’ striker?
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Ings as our 10 suits neither him or us. It's not what he's good at. Why buy the best pure finisher in the league and play him outside the box? Why not just stick him in goal?
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It really depends where Danny Ings is played. If he plays where Barkley was then 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 really isn’t that different to the 4-2-3-1. It’s still two in the middle, it’s still two wingers and it’s still Watkins pressing high.
Is that really Ings’ best position though? I had him down as more of an ‘on the shoulder’ striker?
Not sure if it’s his best position but he formed a good partnerships with Shane Long and Che Adams. Ollie Watkins is far more of a nuisance than either of them.
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Does anybody else it's going to take a while for us to settle down and get a regular team and consistency in play going? It's been a bit of unsettled summer for one reason or another, eg:
The Greasy Ratboy saga
Bailey being signed but not getting a work permit yet
Luiz being away in the Olympics
Buendia not playing much in pre-season because of injury
Seville friendly being cancelled
Last minute Ings signing
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yeah don't like our start to the season tbh. promoted teams in their first games and then chelsea everton, man u and Tottenham. Newcastle I guess should be a guaranteed homer
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We could do with the likes of Bailey, Buendia being all set and ready to hit the ground running. I hope we don't waste our seemingly easier start with them not being ready. Will be tough for them to come in for the September games. Hopefully, we have another couple of players in by that point too though and that they are fully fit and ready to be used straight away.
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Does anybody else it's going to take a while for us to settle down and get a regular team and consistency in play going? It's been a bit of unsettled summer for one reason or another, eg:
The Greasy Ratboy saga
Bailey being signed but not getting a work permit yet
Luiz being away in the Olympics
Buendia not playing much in pre-season because of injury
Seville friendly being cancelled
Last minute Ings signing
Yes
I am also worried that our midfield two will get walked through and we might start shipping goals. For all our central midfielders there is really only Nakamba capable of functioning in a two. For me we need to sell one or more of Luiz/McGinn/Sanson/Hourihane and buy more combative players that can play as a two, or we need to play a three and rotate Ings and Watkins.
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I’d imagine Hourihane will almost certainly be sold before the end of the window.
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Does anybody else it's going to take a while for us to settle down and get a regular team and consistency in play going? It's been a bit of unsettled summer for one reason or another, eg:
The Greasy Ratboy saga
Bailey being signed but not getting a work permit yet
Luiz being away in the Olympics
Buendia not playing much in pre-season because of injury
Seville friendly being cancelled
Last minute Ings signing
Yes
I am also worried that our midfield two will get walked through and we might start shipping goals. For all our central midfielders there is really only Nakamba capable of functioning in a two. For me we need to sell one or more of Luiz/McGinn/Sanson/Hourihane and buy more combative players that can play as a two, or we need to play a three and rotate Ings and Watkins.
What he said. 100%. I fear that Smith will feel obliged to play all the recent players he has signed so the midfield will suffer.
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yeah don't like our start to the season tbh. promoted teams in their first games and then chelsea everton, man u and Tottenham. Newcastle I guess should be a guaranteed homer
No reason why the defence shouldn't be solid though. Konsa, Cash and Targett all had the summer off for a start. If it is I'd be disappointed with anything less than 7 points from our first 3 games.
Agree we need everyone available from September as that's a very tricky run of 5-6 games particularly away so hopefully we've worked out our best formation by then.
Don't forget though the top teams have had most of their squads all away playing international tournaments so it will take all of them until October-November to hit their stride. Man. City losing away to Norwich early on two seasons ago a good example of that.
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I think he will go for this
Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Nakamba
McGinn
Buendia El Ghazi or Young
Ings Watkins
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Ings is a 9.
Any other position is stupid talk. He scores goals. End of.
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yeah don't like our start to the season tbh. promoted teams in their first games and then chelsea everton, man u and Tottenham. Newcastle I guess should be a guaranteed homer
No reason why the defence shouldn't be solid though. Konsa, Cash and Targett all had the summer off for a start. If it is I'd be disappointed with anything less than 7 points from our first 3 games.
Agree we need everyone available from September as that's a very tricky run of 5-6 games particularly away so hopefully we've worked out our best formation by then.
Don't forget though the top teams have had most of their squads all away playing international tournaments so it will take all of them until October-November to hit their stride. Man. City losing away to Norwich early on two seasons ago a good example of that.
Yeah its just playing sides who've just come up makes me nervous especially away 1st game back in the Pl. I know that often doesn't work out, but one of those sides is gonna do okay-ish this season - I reckon Brentford personally with Norwich the whipping boys again and Watford maybe just surviving.. Our midfield is going to take a different shape this season although the reality is Bailey and Buendia haven't played for us yet and are unlikely to play 1st game so we're basically lining up as we would with an injured ratboy unless young appears in midfield - I don't know, maybe smith will totally swap it round. I agree a lot of the top teams will start slowly because of the Internationals but then a poor start from the likes of the City or Chelsea isn't likely to stop them being there at the end with their squads. I'm just worried it may take us a while longer than them to get into our stride so as it stands when we play the likes of Chelsea and Man United, their internationals will be back up to match fitness while we are still getting new players to adapt to how we're playing. Dunno, I may be wrong but i'm a bit worried.
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I think 4-5-1 (or 4-3-3) is our best formation.
Think we are only contemplating 4-4-2 to squeeze Watkins in up front. Would rather we tried him in the left wing position.
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Have the Squad Numbers officially been released yet?
And I reckon we could play a 3-2-3-2 or a 4-3-1-2, maybe a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1
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With Jack gone I think we will be able to change formation more easily, as and when.
With the squad we now have I can see a 4-1-3-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, even a 3-5-2
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Neither Watkins or Buendia will start on Saturday. Because this being Villa their ‘minor’ injuries will keep them out until October.
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Guess which match Mike Dean is doing Saturday 😡
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Toronto Villa, can you make a pre-match thread, please? You made the last one and we won.
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Have the Squad Numbers officially been released yet?
And I reckon we could play a 3-2-3-2 or a 4-3-1-2, maybe a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1
Not all of them but we know some of them like the mighty Sanson Sansom is number 8!
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Toronto Villa, can you make a pre-match thread, please? You made the last one and we won.
Done
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Ta mate.
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I tend to do this every year as I'm curious how everyone else feels about who should start and how we should align. We've got some interesting new additions and a bit of a logjam in the midfield so I wonder how you all would fit them all into the starting eleven.
Smith seems to like his 4-3-3, but 4-2-1-3 seems like it has potential:
G: Martinez
RB: Cash
CB: Konsa
CB: Mings
LB: Targett
DCM: Luiz
DCM: McGinn
CAM: Buendia
LW: Bailey
RW: Watkins
S: Ings
I feel like Ashley Young should be starting somewhere though, and we've also got decent options in Traore, AEG, Samson, etc. It seems like we need to have Watkins and Ings both playing too, so I'm not sure how that front line shakes out.
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I would start with
GK Martinez
RB Cash
LB Targett
CB Mings
CB Konsa
CM Nakamba
CM McGinn
AM Buendia
RW Traore
LW AEG
S Watkins
But would be using substitutions to bring on Ings for AEG (switching Watkins to LW), Bailey for Traore, and Sanson for McGinn.
By the middle of the season I would hope that Bailey and Ings would be featuring from the start (Traore and AEG would be impact subs) and Sanson would be featuring more often.
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EEEK!
4-2-2-2 for me.
The back four, then:
Nakamba/Luiz McGinn
Bailey Buendia
Ings
Watkins
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Emi
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Buendia McGinn Luiz
Watkins Ings Bailey
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Martinez
Konsa Mings
Ward-Prowse McGinn
Cantwell Traore Buendia
Bailey Ings Watkins
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Emi
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Young
Dug.
McGinn. Beondia
Traore. Watkins. Bailey
Edit Oops….knew I’d forgot someone
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With what we have for first game
Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Nakamba
McGinn
Traore
Watkins ings young
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I think Young will start, but don’t know where.
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Martinez
Konsa Mings
Ward-Prowse McGinn
Cantwell Traore Buendia
Bailey Ings Watkins
Loving the 226 formation. It's just not used enough!
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With what we have for first game
Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Nakamba
McGinn
Traore
Watkins ings young
I'm thinking this could be possible for game 1. I'm in agreement that Young should probably be starting somewhere, I'm just not sure where yet. Putting him back in his old LW position would definitely be interesting, if not nostalgic. I think Buendia might get the nod over Traore as a CAM, and I get the feeling that Bailey might not start right away either. Nakamba over Luiz until Doug is fully rested from the summer.
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Martinings
Cashings - Konsings - Mings - Targettings
Nakambings - McGinnings
Buendings - El Ghazings
Watkings - Ings
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Depending on injuries:-
GK Martinez
CB Konsa (I'd make him captain)
CB Mings
RB Cash
LB Targett
DM Marvellous
CM McGinn
AM Buendia (J. Ramsey if he's out)
RWG Bailey (Traore more likely)
LWG Watkins (JPB if out)
CF Ings
Nice to have some good quality on our bench now too.
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Have there been any updates on the fitness of Watkins or any of our other 93 doubtful players?
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All minor injuries, expected back for Boxing Day 2024
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Well Dean has today basically dismissed the idea of playing Watkins wide. So it's two centre forwards and a flat midfield 4? In 2021?
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Have there been any updates on the fitness of Watkins or any of our other 93 doubtful players?
Tony Daley looks fit enough to do a job but I'd have my reservations about McGrath now.
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Dean Smith recently said "We could play three up front with the players we have now, we could play two up front, or one up top with a short striker. So it's given us more adaptability this year, rather than an over-reliance."
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Well Dean has today basically dismissed the idea of playing Watkins wide. So it's two centre forwards and a flat midfield 4? In 2021?
That's very worrying.....there will be a meltdown on here if three centre backs are picked at the weekend!
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Well Dean has today basically dismissed the idea of playing Watkins wide. So it's two centre forwards and a flat midfield 4? In 2021?
Will have to be midfield diamond surely. Emi as number 10, McGinn veering out wide which he does anyway (and possibly Ward Prowse the other side given he's played wing back for Southampton) and I'd give Luiz another go at base of that as deep lying midfielder.
Only issue is that is no idea what Bailey fits in and he's the most exciting signing we've made this season imo so him just being a last 20 minute impact sub option dosen't really make sense.
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Well Dean has today basically dismissed the idea of playing Watkins wide. So it's two centre forwards and a flat midfield 4? In 2021?
Will have to be midfield diamond surely. Emi as number 10, McGinn veering out wide which he does anyway (and possibly Ward Prowse the other side given he's played wing back for Southampton) and I'd give Luiz another go at base of that as deep lying midfielder.
Only issue is that is no idea what Bailey fits in and he's the most exciting signing we've made this season imo so him just being a last 20 minute impact sub option dosen't really make sense.
Well quite. The only way you fit all these players in - just the three apparently signed to replace Jack - you either have to play a flat 4-4-2 or you have to really play at least someone out of position. In the 4-4-2 diamond, that would possibly mean Emi as an 8 (which to be fair he could do with his workrate) and Bailey as a 10, which surely doesn't look like his natural position; or you play either Ings or Watkins wide in a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1; or you play either Bailey or Emi as a wingback, of all things, in a 3-4-1-2. And that's before you assume that McGinn is a deep midfielder in nearly all of these systems. None of these options look great, to be honest.
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I'm pretty sure bailey could play at the top of a diamond in a roving role. He certainly doesn't seem nailed to the wing in the clips I've seen
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It's one thing to rove in from the wing, it's another to be the playmaking 10. That position requires the kind of tactical and tempo-setting skills that don't seem to me to be his strong points. I remember that period when Ash was played as a 10 by Houllier, which failed because Ash isn't a tempo-setter but a final-third kind of player, not a fashioner but a finisher of moves. Bailey looks similar to me, and in that 10 position I can envisage a lot of running into traffic and blind alleys.
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I'm not sure you have to have the playmaker at the head of the diamond looking at past examples
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I think you don't need to if you have at least one striker who's a Berbatov type, happiest dropping off and creating in that pocket of space. Our forwards link well with midfields, but they're not that I think.
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The more I've thought about this I feel we just need to be ruthless and start with 1 up top, either with Watkins moving wide or one of them starting on the bench.
I just don't think we have a strong enough midfield two to play 4-4-2 unless Ings plays more as a 10. He's certainly capable of dropping deep and switching it up, but it seems a bit of a waste and square peg in a round hole to me.
As things stand I think our strongest starting line up would be:
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Nakamba
Traore Buendia Watkins
Ings
Once Bailey is fit then I'd be swapping him in for Watkins / Traore.
I'm worried for Saturday with potential injuries for Watkins & Buendia and Traore not having had many minutes.
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I think as the season goes on we'll see Ollie playing a bit wider from the left despite what DS said yesterday.
I know we'll miss his pressing (I assume Ings can press given Southampton are actually pretty good at it when on form) but to me it seems the only logical way to fit everyone in a 4-2-3-1.
I'm sure when Son signed for Spurs he was out and out central but he's had no issue shifting out wide, same with Rashford at Man. United who had two seasons as CF before it was decided he was better drifting. Then likes of Salah and Mane at Liverpool who've been central but play out wide to great effect.
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Well Dean has today basically dismissed the idea of playing Watkins wide. So it's two centre forwards and a flat midfield 4? In 2021?
I think there are two ways of reading his comments. He says Ollie hasn't played wide in ages, but then goes on to speak about playing a front three, so by 'wide' I took him to mean in an orthodox winger position in a 4-4-2, rather than as a wider part of the front 3.
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Well Dean has today basically dismissed the idea of playing Watkins wide. So it's two centre forwards and a flat midfield 4? In 2021?
I think there are two ways of reading his comments. He says Ollie hasn't played wide in ages, but then goes on to speak about playing a front three, so by 'wide' I took him to mean in an orthodox winger position in a 4-4-2, rather than as a wider part of the front 3.
Ah good point. I hope that's what he meant.
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Well Dean has today basically dismissed the idea of playing Watkins wide. So it's two centre forwards and a flat midfield 4? In 2021?
I think there are two ways of reading his comments. He says Ollie hasn't played wide in ages, but then goes on to speak about playing a front three, so by 'wide' I took him to mean in an orthodox winger position in a 4-4-2, rather than as a wider part of the front 3.
Correct, more Mane, Salah, Son.
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martinez
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Targett
JWP. Doug. McGinn
Buendia. Ollie. Bailey.
Only Bailey is being asked to adapt from their best position and I think it is a subtle change. Loads of options and limited defending required by the front three which is a waste of their energy. Traore can come in to to the Buendia position with Buendia dropping into midfield if we want to go more arracking.
Ramsey/Sanson/Nakamba are options if JWP doesn’t sign.
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martinez
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Targett
JWP. Doug. McGinn
Buendia. Ollie. Bailey.
Only Bailey is being asked to adapt from their best position and I think it is a subtle change. Loads of options and limited defending required by the front three which is a waste of their energy. Traore can come in to to the Buendia position with Buendia dropping into midfield if we want to go more arracking.
Ramsey/Sanson/Nakamba are options if JWP doesn’t sign.
And our new £25m striker?
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I just don't see Ings starting on the bench.
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No. At 29 Ings has to be the main man.
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martinez
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Targett
JWP. Doug. McGinn
Buendia. Ollie. Bailey.
Only Bailey is being asked to adapt from their best position and I think it is a subtle change. Loads of options and limited defending required by the front three which is a waste of their energy. Traore can come in to to the Buendia position with Buendia dropping into midfield if we want to go more arracking.
Ramsey/Sanson/Nakamba are options if JWP doesn’t sign.
And our new £25m striker?
On the bench. Or Ollie on the bench. I just want to avoid a situation where we crowbar ‘Lampard and Gerrard’ into the team because they’re the big names and sacrifice balance.
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I may be having a blonde moment, but I was thinking earlier…who’s our backup for Cash when he inevitably gets suspended or injured. Is Fred our only other option at RB now that Elmo is no longer with us?
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I may be having a blonde moment, but I was thinking earlier…who’s our backup for Cash when he inevitably gets suspended or injured. Is Fred our only other option at RB now that Elmo is no longer with us?
Ashley Young?
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I may be having a blonde moment, but I was thinking earlier…who’s our backup for Cash when he inevitably gets suspended or injured. Is Fred our only other option at RB now that Elmo is no longer with us?
Guess Tuanzebe can play there too
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I may be having a blonde moment, but I was thinking earlier…who’s our backup for Cash when he inevitably gets suspended or injured. Is Fred our only other option at RB now that Elmo is no longer with us?
Guess Tuanzebe can play there too
Is Kaine Kesler not in contention for this spot?
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I may be having a blonde moment, but I was thinking earlier…who’s our backup for Cash when he inevitably gets suspended or injured. Is Fred our only other option at RB now that Elmo is no longer with us?
Guess Tuanzebe can play there too
Is Kaine Kesler not in contention for this spot?
He's out on loan.
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Guilbert?
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There is no way Ings isn't going to play. It'll be Buendia in the JWP position and Watkins left of Ings. All the more reason to improve on the defensive midfield position to give Buendia a bit more licence to focus on attack from midfield with McGinn box to box. As suggested he might be thinking of going more compact with the front three like Liverpool do, i think all of our players in those attacking positions would be well suited to it, including Traore and El Ghazi.
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I'd still go 2 up front or 1 playing slightly off the other. I rate Watkins as a better striker and a better player than Ings personally although he brings different things to the table than Ollie. It seems a waste to play him differently to accommodate Ings and that was my problem with buying Abraham as well. Also not sure how he'll feel about suddenly being relegated from his man role when he got to the verge of the Euro's playing where he did last season
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There is no way Ings isn't going to play. It'll be Buendia in the JWP position and Watkins left of Ings. All the more reason to improve on the defensive midfield position to give Buendia a bit more licence to focus on attack from midfield with McGinn box to box. As suggested he might be thinking of going more compact with the front three like Liverpool do, i think all of our players in those attacking positions would be well suited to it, including Traore and El Ghazi.
what is the JWP position?
people on here think JWP is a defensive midfielder? Buendia is defensive
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I'm struggling to see how we fit in the new signings. Spoke to a Norwich fan who was surprised we played Buendia centrally as they used him on the right. Furthermore Bailey normally operated on the right for Leverkusen. If we go 4-3-3 I could see the sense of:
Buendia Luiz (or an upgrade) McGinn
Bailey Ings Watkins.
This would enable Buendia to play strikers through from a deeper position and SJM to get forward more but would be unfair on Ollie, who was brilliant as the lone frontman last year.
If we stay with 4-2-3-1 then it looks like:
Luiz (or upgrade) McGinn
Buendia Ings Bailey
Watkins
but this limits SJM's chance to get forward and seems a waste of Ings' predatory qualities. Remember how we got overrun last year when Barkley played close to the main striker?
So that leaves us with 4-4-2 with Buendia and Bailey as the wide men. That has never seemed Dean's preferred line up and would not be my choice either.
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Yeah I’ve been struggling to see how this will all piece together too on the basis that we haven’t bought these players to warm the bench. Obviously we have to consider that we will have a squad with strength in depth with decent options coming off the bench, so we’ll need a system that will allow for squad rotation and keep players happy rather than trying to shoehorn them all onto the pitch or out of position. What concerns me most is that whatever formation and combination we chose for these players at the moment, we still look weak in midfield so that really needs to be addressed and we may have a clearer picture of the jigsaw once the midfield questions have been answered.
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*IF* it gets answered.
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I'm nervous about Saturday, got a bad feeling it could be a 'Blackburn 1997' repeat. All the pre-season optimism with the arrival of Collymore, but in trying to fit him in with Yorke and Savo we broke our established system and lost the first four games. Then I think it was Yorke we pushed into midfield, could be similar now if the plan is to put Ings into the '10' role.
On the face of it we've replaced Grealish, Barkley and Trezeguet with two right wingers and a striker. It's going to be very interesting to see how we line up the first time Watkins and Ings are fit.
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I'm nervous about Saturday, got a bad feeling it could be a 'Blackburn 1997' repeat. All the pre-season optimism with the arrival of Collymore, but in trying to fit him in with Yorke and Savo we broke our established system and lost the first four games. Then I think it was Yorke we pushed into midfield, could be similar now if the plan is to put Ings into the '10' role.
On the face of it we've replaced Grealish, Barkley and Trezeguet with two right wingers and a striker. It's going to be very interesting to see how we line up the first time Watkins and Ings are fit.
It's looking like very poor disjointed recruitment thus far. Players we didn't need in areas that didn't need addressing and gaping holes in midfield if we try to fit them all in.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/z3ZzM2VK/worrying-times-ahead-cleaned.jpg)
I think we are in big trouble this season. If 11th was on offer right now I'd snatch your hand off for it.
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I would too. If we really are finished in the market, 11th would be about right.
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I would too. If we really are finished in the market, 11th would be about right.
I fear that 11th is very optimistic with no more signings. Think we will be lucky to get much above 15th with the lack of midfield solidity. We have a two strikers that wont be able to play together in our favoured formation, and a load of right wingers but nothing much on the left. We can only fill the CAM spot by either playing a RW out of position or a no.9 out of position. Our defence is good but inbetween a disjointed attack and that good defence we have about 16 mediocre no.8s and no good options for the two DM slots if we go with two strikers.
It was about this time last year I was still thinking we cant possibly be ignoring the fact we only have one striker, before it happened. I hope to goodness Lange recruits i midfield as not doing so is borderline negligent.
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I'm nervous about Saturday, got a bad feeling it could be a 'Blackburn 1997' repeat. All the pre-season optimism with the arrival of Collymore, but in trying to fit him in with Yorke and Savo we broke our established system and lost the first four games. Then I think it was Yorke we pushed into midfield, could be similar now if the plan is to put Ings into the '10' role.
On the face of it we've replaced Grealish, Barkley and Trezeguet with two right wingers and a striker. It's going to be very interesting to see how we line up the first time Watkins and Ings are fit.
It's looking like very poor disjointed recruitment thus far. Players we didn't need in areas that didn't need addressing and gaping holes in midfield if we try to fit them all in.
The recruitment has been patchy but understandable in the circumstances.
I think the danger is changing too may things in the early games and ending up not having a clue who the best team/formation are.
Best plan is to keep things simple. Go with players who we know in positions where they did well last season.
So Ollie up top, Ings on the bench.
Nakamba (while we wait for a better option) and McGinn in central midfield.
Then the difficult bit....
Traore, Buedia and Bailey as attacking midfielders/wide players?
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All i see in this thread are posts stating we are disjointed, poor recruitment, we are in trouble an that's only on this page. Some people need to stand back and take a breath, its the first game of the season. If after 6 games its still as poor then it is time to be worried but have a bit of faith in a manager who has improved us every season until then.
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People are saying it's disjointed because, well frankly it looks a bit disjointed. Buying two right wingers and an out and out striker when we have lost a left winger and No 10 from our squad seems a bit...disjointed. It all feels a bit square pegs and round holes.
I was advocating buying another attacker and am happy with Ings, although it's not quite what I imagined and could be counter productive if Smith feels obliged to shoehorn in him and Watkins in week in week out.
I don't think the individual players purchased are poor recruitment - I'm excited by all of them. But if we leave a glaring hole in the DM position, then it looks like a poor plan and unbalanced. More so if Buendia can't adapt to a central role very quickly.
Yes we're only one game in, but we didn't need that game to know we are lightweight at DM, a lot of people have been saying it all summer.
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Anyway, if Bert is out this is how I would line up for Saturday:
McGinn Luiz Ramsey
Buendia Watkins Bailey
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And this is how I think Smith will line up
McGinn Luiz
Buendia Bailey
Ings
Watkins
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And this is how I think Smith will line up
McGinn Luiz
Buendia Bailey
Ings
Watkins
Yep, he’s not going to drop Ings.
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I dont see the recruitment so far as dijointed at all, and we were pretty much to a man saying that we needed to buy another striker as beyond Ollie we had nothing.
I still think we will buy another one, hopefully two midfielders.
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And this is how I think Smith will line up
McGinn Luiz
Buendia Bailey
Ings
Watkins
Which will be overrun and put Target under pressure again. Has to go with one striker or play the same players like this
Watkins Ings Bailey
McGinn Luiz Buendia
Which would look better if Ramsey was in for Buendia, but either way you are playing people out of position.
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Anyway, if Bert is out this is how I would line up for Saturday:
McGinn Luiz Ramsey
Buendia Watkins Bailey
This looks the most balanced for me but fear Smith will shoehorn Ings in somehow.
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Said it in the other thread just now but Ings signing will cause us loads of issues this season in setting up and getting results v top level teams.
Hopefully two upfront will be enough to see off likes of Newcastle and Burnley but think we'll get picked off far more playing top level teams than last sesson.
If DS had shown at other clubs he could get good results playing two upfront regularly with some sort of midfield diamond behind I'd be more confident but he hasn't.
Closest to this situation was at Brentford when he had Maupay and Watkins for a season and Ollie played wide. From his comments the other day he seems reluctant to do it now but think it will have to be viable option as season goes on if they all stay fit.
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We'll see after the first few games whether we have a Collymore or Withe situation on our hands.
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The Blackburn game in the 90s is a good reminder. Playing all three of our strikers 'just because' didn't work, we went 4-0 down by half time and Sir Brian never really recovered. I hope we don't see similar from Smith.
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Then again, by Spring 1998, wasn't Gregory playing combos of Yorke/Collymore/Savo (or Joachim) and we were in title-winning form (9 wins from our last 11 league games)?
*Just checked on Soccerbase and there were a few games during that spell where we started three up front including the home leg of the UEFA Cup against Atletico when we had to go for it but the most common combination up-front between March and May 1998 was actually Yorke and Joachim. Collymore actually barely featured after his brace against Liverpool in Gregory's first game in charge and his thunderbolt in that game against Atleti. Savo even started more games than him during that spell despite having told Villa that he wanted to leave.
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Then again, by Spring 1998, wasn't Gregory playing combos of Yorke/Collymore/Savo (or Joachim) and we were in title-winning form (9 wins from our last 11 league games)?
*Just checked on Soccerbase and there were a few games during that spell where we started three up front including the home leg of the UEFA Cup against Atletico when we had to go for it but the most common combination up-front between March and May 1998 was actually Yorke and Joachim. Collymore actually barely featured after his brace against Liverpool in Gregory's first game in charge and his thunderbolt in that game against Atleti. Savo even started more games than him during that spell despite having told Villa that he wanted to leave.
Yes but that doesn't fit most people's agenda on this thread to put us down
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Then again, by Spring 1998, wasn't Gregory playing combos of Yorke/Collymore/Savo (or Joachim) and we were in title-winning form (9 wins from our last 11 league games)?
*Just checked on Soccerbase and there were a few games during that spell where we started three up front including the home leg of the UEFA Cup against Atletico when we had to go for it but the most common combination up-front between March and May 1998 was actually Yorke and Joachim. Collymore actually barely featured after his brace against Liverpool in Gregory's first game in charge and his thunderbolt in that game against Atleti. Savo even started more games than him during that spell despite having told Villa that he wanted to leave.
Yes but that doesn't fit most people's agenda on this thread to put us down
No agenda here. I just remember 1997 vividly and the parallels are obvious. Trying to play Savo, Yorke and Collymore at the start of that season did not work and it was the beginning of the end for Sir Brian and Yorke's time at Villa. Specifically that 0-4 against Blackburn ranks up there with my worst ever Villa games, and the thought had crossed my mind we might get a similar situation against Newcastle if we go 442 with two out and out wingers. Hopefully I'm worried over nothing and we reverse that scoreline.
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Same here Caster, I left at half time in that game, only time I've ever done that. Mind you, I was on a promise with a girl in Leicester who I shared a flat with, so that tipped the scales somewhat.
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Same here Caster, I left at half time in that game, only time I've ever done that. Mind you, I was on a promise with a girl in Leicester who I shared a flat with, so that tipped the scales somewhat.
You win! I stayed till the end and went home miserable (and alone!).
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Then again, by Spring 1998, wasn't Gregory playing combos of Yorke/Collymore/Savo (or Joachim) and we were in title-winning form (9 wins from our last 11 league games)?
*Just checked on Soccerbase and there were a few games during that spell where we started three up front including the home leg of the UEFA Cup against Atletico when we had to go for it but the most common combination up-front between March and May 1998 was actually Yorke and Joachim. Collymore actually barely featured after his brace against Liverpool in Gregory's first game in charge and his thunderbolt in that game against Atleti. Savo even started more games than him during that spell despite having told Villa that he wanted to leave.
Difference was Yorke was lead forward under JG (think Collymore and Joachim were sort of played wide of him) whereas BL started that 1997 season with Yorke in number 10 role/central midfield. So a bit like bringing Ollie back on Saturday and playing him there.
We'll soon see what DS does.
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Very interested to see how we line up Vs Brentford today.
I suspect the formation may be interchangeable
Martinez,
Cash, Konsa, Tuanzebe, Targett,
Douglas Luiz, Chukwuemeka,
Young,
Buendia, El Ghazi, Ings ???
Maybe ?
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I can see a 3 centre back type of formation Vs Chelsea if Mings is out for 3-4 weeks.
And wing backs for Chelsea match in particular
Martinez
Konsa Hause Tuanzebe
Young Douglas McGinn Targett
Buendia
Watkins Ings
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I think the return of Bailey might well be all important for Dean's plan. We don't look to play through the midfield at all, so lacking the right personnel up front that means we look terribly cumbersome and disjointed. However, if he's really commited to that front four, play up their noses idea, perhaps the loss of the most direct runner among them alters our whole shape dramatically (and deleteriously).
That's what I'm holding onto anyway.
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The "return of Bailey"
The guy has barely featured!
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The "return of Bailey"
The guy has barely featured!
I take your point, he has been notable largely by his absence.
Let us fervently hope that all our new signings and injured star layers will feature soon.
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The "return of Bailey"
The guy has barely featured!
I take your point, he has been notable largely by his absence.
Let us fervently hope that all our new signings and injured star layers will feature soon.
"Star layers" that sounds interesting!
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So then 3-5-2.....
Someone go check on CDBW to see if he's still breathing. Thought there was huge potential with how we played first half and seems most logical way of getting the best out of what we have this season.
For instance you could drop Bailey in the front two alongside Ollie for some games, Buendia could also float around there and McGinn is also way better playing as advanced midfield than being some deep sitting one.
Mings could make that mistake if we played a 2-2-8 so formation dosen't matter when you make that sort of error and it killed the game for us.
We conceded three goals playing a back 4 just three weeks ago after all.
Would like to see us stick with it for a few weeks and see what happens as likes of Everton and Spurs could well play it v us.
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Agreed. I thought it worked well.
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Whilst it worked ok in a tricky game it's not for me. Our most creative players Bailey, Buendia and Traore are all wingers so picking a formation where our width comes from two decent but not exceptional fullbacks and marginalises these thress doesn't make any sense to me.
I just feel Smith has to bit ethe bullet and accept that one of Watkins or Ings will have to start on the bench.
The more I see Ramsey, the more he demands a place. For me our best starting 11 has to be
Martinez,
Cash, Konsa, Mings, Targett,
McGinn Luiz, Ramsey
Buendia, Watkins, Bailey
You've then got Ings, Traore, El Ghazi, Chuck, Bidace who can all add something as positve subs. Tuanzebe Sanson & Nakamba to tighten things up / step in for injuries.
Whatever formation keeping Luiz fit and in form is absolutely vital.
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I've liked the 3 at the back Vs Chelsea and it worked for a time Vs Everton but I feel Matt Targett isn't right for a left wing back role.
He's been lacking in both the athletics to get up and down the pitch as well as effective and impactful aggresive attacking play. To be frank I've found him woeful.
I also feel the service in such reliance on wing backs is being ill judged as greatly reliance doesn't aid to the strengths of Watkins and in particular Dan Ings. Because the service has to be better.
Matty Cash has shown much improvement culminating in a goal Vs Everton in league and great provider of goal for Archers header . Targett struggles to delivery the same.
I think I rather Ashley Young as a wing back than target or even an up and coming player
Overall though with all players fit a system that suits Ings and Watkins and not this reliance on the wing backs to be are chief creators .
I don't think this was plan with our summer signings and Smith has seemed to stumble across it. A revert to a wide attack or general 4-1-3-2 or 4-2-3-1 fluid formation is perhaps long term though with an ability to start some matches with 3 central defenders
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I just saw that our 2 strikers are isolated or have to go out wide in isolation without the support of a winger and in search of the ball. Vs Everton -Even saw Ings chasing all way back as one sort of defender. That's not on for me he's not needed there and only exhaust him. That was because Cash went flying up the field.
Vs Everton What we saw perfectly was villa improved the minutes Target came off the pitch it suited more to play with the style however he only came off as he was injured
I much enjoyed some of the football Dean is providing us these last 3 matches(2 Chelsea 1 Everton) and in many respects I feel all 3 could have been victories.
Some of that play because of the system but some of the reason we weren't scoring or creating because of the system
It's now where do Villa want to go with this does Smith keep this wing back because we won?
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I like to think the 3 at the back and rest of formation is a little more flexible when moving forward for the sake of the front two and the services and opportunities.
Its not that Villa are simply functional in this 3-5-2 type system but it does lack the goals and creating chances rests a lot with the wing backs movement and service and then whatever the two strikers can do as the only real players who can get goals from open play.
No offence to McGinn, Ramsey and Douglas!
At the moment there is a reliance in some ways on the set plays and although I'm more than satisfied that we're playing on the front foot and in opponents half it's both the personnel and in some ways the formation that not allowing Ings especially to get any decent service or sight of goal
I think that system could win or go close in tournaments like how Italy used it and England have and funny we didn't use it in the League Cup at Chelsea.
Yes we create chances and very good ones but i wonder , Traore, Bailey and AEG fit into that current system of playing vs Man Utd.
CC , Sanson and Buendia could play in the 3 in the middle but at the moment our attacking flair players are ultimately being left out
Ings in particular up front has now had to chase back covering matty cash sometimes and works him self so hard real tireless as does Watkins. I would just like to see more flexibility in coming matches to feature our strikers yet still have enjoyed the Dean Smith philosophy of front foot football despite lack of action for our strikers.
I hope that makes sense.
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What is your thinking about formation now?
There's no denying 3/5 at the back has seen some good performances against strong teams, but it's still a formation I don't particulalrly like. I feel we have almost stumbled accross it in an attempt to accommodate both Watkins and Ings up front.
I can't complain, it's delivered wins against against Everton and Man U. But I hope we see it as a tool to be used when needed and not our go shape in the long term. I want to see the likes of Traore, Bailey and Buendia starting regularly, not just as impact subs.
I'm sure we'll stick with it against Spurs, but for me the sweet spot would still be 4-3-3.
What do you think?
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It's horses for courses in my view.
We can play 3-5-2, 4-3-3, 3-4-3, 4-3-1-2 etc etc.
I think it's more difficult when Bailey becomes fit, because let's face it, from what we've seen so far, he has to start.
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The central defenders have done so well that they've convinced me, in spite of my previous support for four at the back. We don't need to have two centre halves after all, we can get away with one.
Would go with a 1-3-3-3 formation.
Martinez (rush goalie)
Mings
McGinn
Luiz
J Ramsey
Bailey
Buendia
Traore
Ings
Archer
Watkins
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I'd have Konsa as the back 1
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The line up against Spurs will be interesting. Arsenal murdered them with 4-2-3-1, but their midfielders were Partey, proper physical and energetic, and Xhaka, who had his obligatory good game in five. I'd like to see us go 4-3-3 for it, but I don't see Deano changing much.
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What is your thinking about formation now?
There's no denying 3/5 at the back has seen some good performances against strong teams, but it's still a formation I don't particulalrly like. I feel we have almost stumbled accross it in an attempt to accommodate both Watkins and Ings up front.
I can't complain, it's delivered wins against against Everton and Man U. But I hope we see it as a tool to be used when needed and not our go shape in the long term. I want to see the likes of Traore, Bailey and Buendia starting regularly, not just as impact subs.
I'm sure we'll stick with it against Spurs, but for me the sweet spot would still be 4-3-3.
What do you think?
Agree that it was a formation that was probably put together as a way of getting Watkins and Ings up front together. To be honest, I think it is a formation we have looked comfortable and it suits a lot of our players.
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The central defenders have done so well that they've convinced me, in spite of my previous support for four at the back. We don't need to have two centre halves after all, we can get away with one.
Would go with a 1-3-3-3 formation.
Martinez (rush goalie)
Mings
McGinn
Luiz
J Ramsey
Bailey
Buendia
Traore
Ings
Archer
Watkins
That made me laugh
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I’d be 433 for me all day long.
I am starting to think that watkins and Ings can work in that system where Ings becomes (a bit of a) false 9, so Bailey and Watkins can tuck in (like Firmino used to do for Salah and Mane).
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I’d be 433 for me all day long.
I am starting to think that watkins and Ings can work in that system where Ings becomes (a bit of a) false 9, so Bailey and Watkins can tuck in (like Firmino used to do for Salah and Mane).
This is exactly how I'd like us to play against the more defensive teams, players between the lines.
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What's great is that we had such a good transfer window, and our Academy have done so well that we now have so many options open to us.
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I’d be 433 for me all day long.
I am starting to think that watkins and Ings can work in that system where Ings becomes (a bit of a) false 9, so Bailey and Watkins can tuck in (like Firmino used to do for Salah and Mane).
This is what I want too.
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Oh and just to finally comment on the 3-5-2 v 5-3-2.... When Cash crossed for Targett to put it over the bar, they were further forward than any other player. That doesn't happen with the latter formation.
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Oh and just to finally comment on the 3-5-2 v 5-3-2.... When Cash crossed for Targett to put it over the bar, they were further forward than any other player. That doesn't happen with the latter formation.
True. They were both over the halfway line more often than they were in our half I reckon.
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(https://scontent-man2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/245198067_4731517096892322_3321034612990143174_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Yx_JrDTh9RQAX9OToAg&_nc_ht=scontent-man2-1.xx&oh=a68149fa4ea00f33c79d25c8d29eb29c&oe=618BD0C5)
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I'd like us to go to move on from 3 at the back against Arsenal but I suspect Smith may change personnel and not system
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Vs Arsenal
1st half
3-5-2: 0 Shots 0 xG
Zero goals
2nd half
4-3-3: -10 Shots 1.36 xG
One goal
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I'd like us to go to move on from 3 at the back against Arsenal but I suspect Smith may change personnel and not system
Or he might play exactly the same formation and personnel, and throw the game away completely.
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A list of the players who have thrived under a 5-3-2:
List ends.
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A list of the players who have thrived under a 5-3-2:
List ends.
Harsh. The Arsenal players loved our formation.
If you were looking for one Villa player that had done well, best I could come up would be Hause. The one that he's decided to drop, so we can help Man U out.
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Well the formation is set by Stevie Me unless maybe Villa are moving to wing backs?
However it's the players that in front position especially front 3 be interesting to see as preferred and deemed first choices
I'm all for strong squad and rotating however Gerrard needs to know his best 11 when all available
For me it's this with Nakamba/Luiz to be replaced
Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Digne
Nakamba/Luiz
Ramsey McGinn Coutinho
Bailey Ings Watkins
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Cunning plan. Not sure we’ll get away with 4133 though.
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Cunning plan. Not sure we’ll get away with 4133 though.
they'll have the referee, linos and the VAR tonight, so least we can do is try and sneak another starter
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Possibly our strongest starting XI with present squad
Martinez
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Digne.
Nakamba
McGinn. Ramsey.
Buendia. Watkins. Coutinho.
You bang in a Bissouma (?), or similar, in as DM and suddenly your looking at a top 6 starting line up
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Steven Me
Why?
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Steven Me
Why?
Yeah, I didn't get that one, either.
Is it a nickname?
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It's a disparaging nickname for him. Replace Stevie G with Stevie Me.
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Ah ok. Cheers Drummond.
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Possibly our strongest starting XI with present squad
Martinez
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Digne.
Nakamba
McGinn. Ramsey.
Buendia. Watkins. Coutinho.
You bang in a Bissouma (?), or similar, in as DM and suddenly your looking at a top 6 starting line up
A top 6 squad is developing nicely too as heres the alternative team:
Olsen
Hayden
Chambers
Hause
Targett
Luiz
Sanson
Chuk
Traore
Ings
Bailey
Plus the ones out on loan like Archer
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Is there a case of putting Coutinho in the middle 3 and having Bailey/Watkins as a wide left forward?
It's imperative we get a bit of pace up top and wide positions though SG system calls for the mauradi full backs and inverted number 10s players getting to the by line is a real buzz to see which we don't see enough.
Tyrone Mings in a few games has been that player wide left and got to the by line and I even have Ashley Young out there. I think we just could do with more amenities in the attacking 3 and some variation
Maybe I can only wish and the formation and system us pretty much set as is the first choice 11 seemingly predictable.
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Cunning plan. Not sure we’ll get away with 4133 though.
😂
I'd prefer a switch back to 4231 myself. Luiz + McGinn/Sanson. Buendia, Coutinho, Ramsey. Midfield three at the moment is not working and Luiz isn't a good enough 6 yet to cover the CBs by himself.
Bailey and Traore two good options to start challenging further up.
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Interesting formation use yesterday v Liverpool. And pleasing to see SG talk about variety within the attack
SG was saying how he wanted and wants to use two 9s sometimes
He also said on Coutinho and Buendia "If I decide to go with one No.10, it is going to be one or the other
I've shown that sometimes we play with two No.10s, sometimes one No.10 and one a little bit wider. I want that variety and I want that unpredictability in the front players."