Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 01:55:52 PM
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From making the game look easy for most of the first half we were beyond inept in the second. No doubt the manager will blame the players and not himself for the collapse. We could have lost by more in the end. Really poor second half against a shit Palace side.
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I have no idea what formation or shape we ended that game. A desperate attempt to get as many attackers on the pitch as possible with no plan how too get the ball to them. It was very Lambert Bradford.
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Quite shocked by that second half. The danger signs were obvious.Ramsey was lost and should have been subbed at half time. Once Eze had space we were done.
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That second half was a horror show.
It was evident that the tide was turning and Smith sat on his hands. He has got to be able to make adjustments when things are going against us if he wants to make us a top 6 or top 8 team.
There is absolutely no way we should have lost today but there is a softness about us that is concerning.
We've lost more games now than we've won this season in the league. Very disappointing.
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Up there with Burnley away for our worst half of football.
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Felt it showed a weakness in the defensive midfield. Palace squeezed us physically and we got bullied. Watkins didn't hold the ball up at all and we stopped working the channel.
We need a stopper in there of high quality who can anchor and stop us leaking possession and consequently territory.
It also points again to the point that when we're without all our best players, we are lacking. No Mings and Cash and we suffered, with 50%, of an excellent defence missing.
No real alchemy to today, they're a big, ugly, physical side that put us under and we wilted. McGinn's booking stymied him, Ramsey was a little boy lost all game with some really poor decisions making. He doesn't look up to this level yet at all when he starts.
It mirrored Burnley away to be honest. A very poor workmanlike side being able to bully us.
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Once again Smith reacts too late and makes the wrong substitutions. A third goal for Palace with them dominating possession and the midfield was obviously coming. There were too many passengers in our team in the 2nd half. Very poor and sadly very predictable at the moment.
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We played so well at times yet so poorly at others. We didn't seem to have leader on the pitch in the second half and I'm afraid to say that Grealish looks way off match fitness.
Selhurst is such a ****** hole for us.
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I have no idea what formation or shape we ended that game. A desperate attempt to get as many attackers on the pitch as possible with no plan how too get the ball to them. It was very Lambert Bradford.
just texted my mate that .. 3 strikers and no fucking wingers...... typicaal Paul Lambert
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Carbon copy of Burnley away. Well on top and clearly the better side but allowed the opposition to bully their way back into it because we are far too passive and then sloppy under pressure. Utterly infuriating and there's a decent chance we won't even finish top of the bottom half now.
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Poor 2nd half by all players on the pitch (and that includes Jack),
Dean and the coaching staff. That was a disgraceful and embarrassing display and is not to be tolerated.
That said any troll (BC Villain yes I'm talking about you) can fuck off!
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That's really fucked me off. Chucked the points away.
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too soft and lazy - fucking piss poor after a lively first 15 mins. Smith needs a good look in the mirror here - he can lack ideas on how to change it. He's been done today by someone people call a dinosaur.
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Being the youngest team in the league means we lack leaders when Tyrone and Jack are not there and it showed today. When they needed picking up there was no one to give them all a bollocking
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6 wins from our last 22 fixtures is very poor.
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Pretty much carbon copy of Burnley away.
Were excellent first half and well on top and should've been more than 1-2 up.
Second half they get the ball forward quicker and we really struggle. If it wasn't Hause heading crosses away no one else did and it eventually cost us the winner.
Rubbish game to lose, we are useless season in season out at Selhurst, hate us playing there.
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I have no idea what formation or shape we ended that game. A desperate attempt to get as many attackers on the pitch as possible with no plan how too get the ball to them. It was very Lambert Bradford.
I cant say I'm a big fan of just throwing on every striker we have, especially since none of them are very good.
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Promising start, but the balance is all wrong in midfield even without Barkley treading water.
I'm not going to slag a young player like Ramsey, but he doesn't look ready yet. Lets his man wander, not especially creative with the ball and doesn't get his shots away quick enough. He can still come good and this season may be invaluable for his development.
But today (and for other games this season) we've needed a physical presence in there alongside Luiz to do the dirty work and take the pressure off him.
McGinn can put a foot in, don't get me wrong. But let him do that higher up the pitch. So we're defending from the front when we need to.
Better wide options required as well.
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A mostly decent first half and then we got worse the longer the second half went on.
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That second half is as bad as it gets for me.
Traore should be docked his wages for that pitiful effort. Ramsey was clearly having no influence on the game but managed to stay on almost until the end.
To lead the game, twice, and still lose so badly is just not good enough. A lot of players and staff need to have a good look at themselves tonight.
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Got what we deserved -- nothing.
Played as if it was a testimonial and we were the fancy dans people had come to watch.
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I hope he rips into them. Unacceptable and happening too often.
Not enough bottle out there today.
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And I thought we were worse without Traore
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Smith just throwing strikers on baffles me - especially as we generally lose games in the midfield area. Throwing strikers on who have about 6 goals in probably 100 games between them.....
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Not great at all.
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Where do you start picking the bones out of that carcass? Probably midfield, as a unit very iffy since January.
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Deserved to lose. Very shit. Oh well.
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I feel kind of used to such performances nowadays. Players and management don't seem to improve week upon week, poor tactics and craply timed, pointless substitutions. This has been us since January.
We were lovely to watch for about 20 minutes of that game, and played like a league 2 team for the majority of the second half. God only knows what they do in training. Not really a fan of 5 or 6 of today's starters, and although it's nice to not worry about relegation, the style of football we largely play is bland, inept and ineffective.
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We were good 1st half until we scored. Ramsey, young but does not like he is up to it. 2nd half was just pathetic.
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Good in the 1st half, moved it well and should have lead by more. Absolute car crash 2nd half. I’m nervous if I’m Smith as that performance must have impatient Billionaires mumbling.
Grealish, if he ain’t ready for Villa forget England. He’s way off.
Ramsey, no idea what he is.
Elmo, thanks but that’s your lot.
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Too many of the players are mentally weak, when things don't go to plan they hide.Mind you been like that for 20+ years.
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4th bottom last 15 games in the form guide. Awful record
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We gave the ball away at will second half. Ollie lost every 'battle' up top, couldn't hold the ball up at all and it kept coming back at us too quickly.
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If we could strengthen in one position in the summer it would be a commanding ball-winning defensive midfielder. Someone like Ndidi or Kante.
Forget buying wingers. We lose control of the midfield and we can't control games as a result. Some strong bastard in the middle is what we need.
It was horrible to watch that second half. Palace are a very ordinary team and we made them look irresistible.
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Everton away highly likely was our last 3 points for the season. Typical Villa really, start off great and completely and utterly tank.
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A performance which encapsulates the season as a whole really - some good elements mixed with some really poor ones. Have to agree with the comments regarding Ramsey - he's a young lad and has done well at times when he has come on as a sub, but has struggled whenever he has started. Should have come off a lot earlier and we should have tried to bolster the midfield a bit.
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Once again, sadly, I was one of the 5 that put CP up for a win. My heart is all Villa but, my head has seen nothing in the last 6 or more games to say we are going to get a win anytime soon. Season is over, not for us fans but, from our players. Shame 50 points seems to be more wanted by the fans than the players.
Said earlier that we need a good new 5 players for next season to make any progress. Today once again just confirmed that.
I really hope that for you good people that have a ticket for Chelsea get some much better reaction from Villa but, not holding my breath.
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4th bottom last 15 games in the form guide. Awful record
That's survival form.
We are staying up say we are staying up 8)
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I thought Hause played okay, Watkins tried hard and Martinez is blameless for any of the goals. We won't get another point this season I'm afraid.
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Felt it showed a weakness in the defensive midfield. Palace squeezed us physically and we got bullied. Watkins didn't hold the ball up at all and we stopped working the channel.
We need a stopper in there of high quality who can anchor and stop us leaking possession and consequently territory.
It also points again to the point that when we're without all our best players, we are lacking. No Mings and Cash and we suffered, with 50%, of an excellent defence missing.
No real alchemy to today, they're a big, ugly, physical side that put us under and we wilted. McGinn's booking stymied him, Ramsey was a little boy lost all game with some really poor decisions making. He doesn't look up to this level yet at all when he starts.
It mirrored Burnley away to be honest. A very poor workmanlike side being able to bully us.
I thought exactly the same abouts Ramsey Ads. There just doesn't look to be enough about him to influence games. Disappeared up his own arse before he got hooked. There was a worrying look on Grealish after someone tried to play him in (I forget who) He mouthed "fucking hell man" It was the third time one of our players tried to find him and failed miserably. I'm no mind reader but he must be thinking if only I had better players around me. Hopefully I'm miles off the truth but it was a worrying sight I thought.
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Utterly out thought and out fought by the mighty Crystal Palace. Cause for concern indeed.
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Thankfully I have 24 cans of 9% lemon sour type alcohol thing. A joint or a bag of magic mushrooms would really take the edge off. Unfortunately the latter would end up with me being deported.
Up the Villa all.
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I think Ramsey's had enough chances for this season. Perhaps he'll come through in time, but he's not a PL player yet.
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What was Dean saying about his sides usually finish strongly at the end of the season?
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Ramsey's performance provides the answer to all those wanting us to chuck even younger players into the team. It is nice in principle to think these games are a free hit to experiment but in reality we want to win. And the step up to first team football is huge.
You can see Jacob just wants a split second too long on the ball sometimes and struggles to make an impact when it is going against us. Still only 19 and these games will do him the world of good.
Douglas had a good game I thought. McGinn is an odd now. Does so much good work but goes through patches in games when he constantly gives the ball away, and often in dangerous areas.
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Really don’t understand all this Ramsey criticism, the kid is just 19 FFS! This is all valuable experience food and bad
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This was a game when everyone could see we needed to make changes very early 2nd half. Ramsey was completely lost and Doug had no support in midfield. We were completely over run and Smith as ever sat on his hands. Time and time again he does this until the opposition scores and
he throws on poor old Davis to try and salvage something.
It might be unpopular and I'm.sure I will be slaughtered but I just do not see Smith matching our ambitious owners. The performances I the last 20 games aside of Everton have been relegation standard
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We actually looked worse when Jack came on.
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Really don’t understand all this Ramsey criticism, the kid is just 19 FFS! This is all valuable experience food and bad
OK, there no need to make a meal of it.
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Really don’t understand all this Ramsey criticism, the kid is just 19 FFS! This is all valuable experience food and bad
He'll be hungry for success I'm sure.
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Ramsey's performance provides the answer to all those wanting us to chuck even younger players into the team. It is nice in principle to think these games are a free hit to experiment but in reality we want to win. And the step up to first team football is huge.
You can see Jacob just wants a split second too long on the ball sometimes and struggles to make an impact when it is going against us. Still only 19 and these games will do him the world of good.
Douglas had a good game I thought. McGinn is an odd now. Does so much good work but goes through patches in games when he constantly gives the ball away, and often in dangerous areas.
Luiz is part of the midfield that Palace just walked through. We need an upgrade if he is supposed to have enforcer responsibilities
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Really don’t understand all this Ramsey criticism, the kid is just 19 FFS! This is all valuable experience food and bad
OK, there no need to make a meal of it.
😁
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Really don’t understand all this Ramsey criticism, the kid is just 19 FFS! This is all valuable experience food and bad
He'll be hungry for success I'm sure.
He has to swallow it and move on
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Really don’t understand all this Ramsey criticism, the kid is just 19 FFS! This is all valuable experience food and bad
He'll be hungry for success I'm sure.
Just needs a bit more bite
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Utterly predictable, good first half then threw it away against a team physically pressing us higher up the pitch and we just didn't seem to want to know. Massively missed Mings leadership.
Score on the doors
Martinez - 7 - Couldn't do much about any of the goals.
Elmo - 5 - seemed to run out of gas in the last 20 and seemed to keep losing Zaha who grew in confidence.
Konsa - 5 - seemed very unsure of himself today
Hause - 7 - up for the battle and a good showing
Targett - 7 - thought he kept Townsend reasonably quiet and did his job defensively
Luiz - 4 - good first half and was bossing the play but utterly lost the plot second half and his lack of physicality showed
McGinn - 6 - very good first half but another who faded dreadfully second half
Ramsey - 3 - not bad first half but did he come out for the second half
Traore - 2 - Dear oh dear
El Ghazi - 4 - was on course for a 7 or 8 score then utterly disappeared in the second half
Watkins - 4 - another good first half ran channels, was aggressive but really poor 2nd half hold up play abysmal and not in the game.
Subs
Grealish - 5 - meh
Davis and Wes - just didn't have long enough
Smith - 3 - really poor, in a game you're not in any great danger of losing, to not react at all to the changes Hodgson made was criminal and all the impetus and energy went out of the team. His changes were yet again too late and seemed to lack any thought as to how to rescue a point, as others said it was a lambertesque Bradford at home moment.
So on we go.....
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We actually looked worse when Jack came on.
I said the same thing in our whatts app group.
As for Ramsey, he should have gone off for maybe Nakamba. They were cutting through us in that first half. No criticism of the player himself mind.
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I think it's been said already, but that was similar to Burnley, in performance and score.
Don Goodman had it right in the first half saying how we retreated or let Palace play further forward each time after scoring. We were playing so well before we scored.
The midfield trio just seemed to go AWOL in the second half to let Palace play higher up and we let their two good players have too much of the ball. After McGinn got a yellow card, he was subdued and Luiz and Ramsey didn't do enough.
Again, Smith didn't appear to react to a change in the pattern especially in the second half.
Contrast today to the performance against Palace on Boxing Day with 10 men.
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The worst thing is I am now watching Spudz Dingles and finding myself supporting Spudz to keep those oiks below us!
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A dire 2nd half performance, after such a promising star, Palace were much the better side in the 2nd half.
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Really don’t understand all this Ramsey criticism, the kid is just 19 FFS! This is all valuable experience food and bad
I hate to critisise young players trying to make it at the top but I've seen enough of Ramsey now to form an opinion. I just don't see him making any real influence in a game. He's busy he works hard and gets in good positions but that seems to be his sum total. I can't think of a top drawer moment involving him where I've jumped out of my seat with excitement. Hopefully he'll go on to prove me wrong.
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I'm not surprised Elmo and El Ghazi faded given its been 10 or 11 hours since they last drank water, never mind took on sustenance.
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I'm not surprised Elmo and El Ghazi faded given its been 10 or 11 hours since they last drank water, never mind took on sustenance.
Ramadan is over?
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I'm not surprised Elmo and El Ghazi faded given its been 10 or 11 hours since they last drank water, never mind took on sustenance.
Ramadan finished on Thursday night.
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Shocking by us on and off the pitch this week. I could go off them😉
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We actually looked worse when Jack came on.
I said the same thing in our whatts app group.
As for Ramsey, he should have gone off for maybe Nakamba. They were cutting through us in that first half. No criticism of the player himself mind.
Agreed Re NaKamba. Said the same around the 65th minute
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Shocking by us on and off the pitch this week. I could go off them😉
Off the pitch?
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We actually looked worse when Jack came on.
He looked to be too wide to me. Why not try him through the middle?
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I'm not surprised Elmo and El Ghazi faded given its been 10 or 11 hours since they last drank water, never mind took on sustenance.
Ramadan finished on Thursday night.
Fair enough. No excuses then.
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Limping over the line this season...
Still like to see Martiniez and Ollie getting their club records and some from for Jack to be ready for England...
Can we at least do that please?
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Shocking by us on and off the pitch this week. I could go off them😉
Off the pitch?
I’m still sulking I didn’t win in the ballot.
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Thankfully I have 24 cans of 9% lemon sour type alcohol thing. A joint or a bag of magic mushrooms would really take the edge off. Unfortunately the latter would end up with me being deported.
Up the Villa all.
Just tell immigration we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
Works a treat, I find.
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It may be a minor matter in the scale of things, but what might have been the thinking (being a goal down) behind making one substitution, bringing on Davis with 4 minutes to go to the end of normal time, and then bringing on Wesley a minute later? Might it not have been possible, and more sensible, to have brought them both on at the same time?
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I'm not surprised Elmo and El Ghazi faded given its been 10 or 11 hours since they last drank water, never mind took on sustenance.
Ramadan finished on Thursday night.
Fair enough. No excuses then.
Actually I've just remembered it was Wednesday, not that it makes a difference.
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Ramsey should be out on loan learning his trade somewhere like Norwich.
Initially he came in and played with enthusiasm and made a bit of an impact with work rate but many games since he is just a passenger. I've seen Watkins bollock him for holding on to the ball for too long, decision making
Very disappointing the way that finished. Started so brightly with a quality goal from McGinn. Watkins hold up play was great first half then non existent 2nd, Zaha was on fire today but it's well known how to deal with him, you can easily wind him up.
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Eze for them was superb.
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Out muscled & out fought for the entire second half. Yet Smith doesn't react, again.
We have too many players without the fight needed against the likes of Palace.
I hope that the lack of ability & strength will be addressed in the summer. If not Smith is on borrowed time.
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Whatever else this game shows, it's that our second string players are nowhere near good enough. We can't deal with our first choice players being out.
Elmo has had it at this level - culpable for two of their goals, Hause is very limited, not a Prem player, El Ghazi is a good finisher but thats all, Ramsay needs time hopefully . I'm glad Neil Taylor hasn't had to see the light of day.
Add to that Grealish being clearly half fit (if there were no Euros to come he would be nowhere near the side this season) , and that our back up strikers are Davis (see Hause comment) and Wesley we'll finish above where I'd have expected to be honest. Also throw in that Ramsay was starting because the Barkley experiment failed and he couldn't be arsed, thats another "starter" we didn't have today.
We need to kick on again this summer -up and coming centre half and left back who can put pressure on the starters and be a reliable backup when needed, bring Freddie back from loan. Two new midfielders to give Luis and Konsa some competition, then Ramsay has time to develop without being asked to start. And a replacement for Traore so he becomes a backup/bench player. Personally I'd go get Tammy, then our first string frontline would be Grealish, Watkins and Abraham . I'll take that.
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Piss poor. Starting to get very typical of us now.
Starting to think Smith hasn’t got it at this level.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12308097/palace-come-from-behind-to-beat-villa
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Just overrun in the second half, physically second best all over the pitch and you can’t give Eze and Zaha that kind of space and expect to get away with it. Really fed up at the way we continuously step off the game when we go ahead and let teams dominate us.
Grealish should have played through the middle for Ramsey to get him on the ball more.
And how many more opportunities for Traore? He is low on confidence but doesn’t even try to compensate by putting in a shift.
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With 4 or 5 good signings we have the making of a decent team. Serious question marks over:
Traore - We are not good enough to carry a luxury player. Has no respect for possession.
El Ghazi - Too much of a solo artist. We need team players. See Leicester!!
Ramsey - Failed end of year exam. Maybe, try again at the end of next year.
Barkley - Enough already said
Nakamba - Clearly not made the level if constantly overlooked for subtitutions when we need fresh legs.
Deano needs to analyse a game during it, not after it.
To lose to a bog standard team like Crystal Palace is an embarrasment. >:( >:( >:(
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In true Villa fashion, that’s the first time Palace have won a league game in three years when losing at HT.
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Thought the second half was a disgrace. To ship that many chances against Palace is appalling.
We really haven’t progressed at all with game management. The midfield needs some work, the balance isn’t right.
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Off the top of my head is that 6 points vs West Brom, Fulham, Palace, Sheffield United, Newcastle, Brighton, Burnley in 2021? With or without Grealish, that is diabolical.
Ramsey should have been off after 60 mins, nothing against the kid, he's still learning, but the game was passing him by and we either needed Nakamba to shore things up or Chukwuemeka to try something different. It seems like Dean will only make changes after we concede, he needs to be more proactive. The worrying thing is he doesn't seem to be learning these lessons (as others have said this was Burnley mark II).
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Atrocious. These capitulation from good positions are more worrying than straightforward bad performances, because they suggest smith and the players aren't learning at the necessary rate.
Leeds are showing us up, also rooted in mid table but finishing bang in form with quality performances.
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Shocking by us on and off the pitch this week. I could go off them😉
Off the pitch?
I’m still sulking I didn’t win in the ballot.
Lucky you.
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What with the injuries and our performances in the last couple of months, I can’t see any of our players actually playing a match for England in the Euros. Given also that Southgate has quite a few players that have been on form to pick from.
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We aren’t ruthless enough - once again we don’t get the second goal - or in this case third to seal the game - and that invites the inevitable pressure, with the same predictable outcome. Until we stop being a soft touch, we’ll continue to see these piss weak performances.
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There are mitigating circumstances in the falloff in our form since January ( Covid and JG's injury), but Smith's taken us to his personal zenith. If we want to scale higher peaks, he's got to be replaced, and I know that sounds harsh, and will attract an avenanche of oppprobrium, but it's true.If we really want to be in the top six, seven or eight someone demonstrably more astute is needed.
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There’s been progression from last season to this season, but there’s been no progression during this season.
The owners spent a shed load during the summer, so of course we were going to be better then last season. Even Bruce would have achieved that!
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If we're honest, Leeds are more likely to push on next season than us. They have more fight, seem to have a pattern of play, they carry no passengers & the manager reacts when it's not working.
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We aren’t ruthless enough - once again we don’t get the second goal - or in this case third to seal the game - and that invites the inevitable pressure, with the same predictable outcome. Until we stop being a soft touch, we’ll continue to see these piss weak performances.
This for me. When we go a goal ahead the ball turns into the proverbial hot potato time and time again. Our self belief is as flimsy as a butterflies wings.
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If we're honest, Leeds are more likely to push on next season than us. They have more fight, seem to have a pattern of play, they carry no passengers & the manager reacts when it's not working.
Why? Their manager is their everything. If he goes to Spurs (and I hope not as they'll challenge for the title) Leeds will be relegated.
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If we're honest, Leeds are more likely to push on next season than us. They have more fight, seem to have a pattern of play, they carry no passengers & the manager reacts when it's not working.
100% this. Thy have important qualities we still lack. I can see them starting next season the way we started this one, but not taking the second half of the season off.
Good luck to them, though it pains me to say it.
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we have to learn how to look after the ball better .The possession second half was awful.
also our tackling was non existent, Marvellous can at least do that
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Leeds are a great example of a team with a number of good not necessarily great players,like ourselves but has manager that is tactically aware and can pre act during the game. Its clear his players know their individual job when they step out. I remember Tony Morley telling me once that Saunders instilled this in his players every time. Our players seem to drift away time after time
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Yep. There weren’t any shocking mistakes today, any noticeably poor individual performances. *Just* an entire team of players playing within their ability. Which is damning.
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Yep. There weren’t any shocking mistakes today, any noticeably poor individual performances. *Just* an entire team of players playing within their ability. Which is damning.
I agree with you but we seem to have periods in games when we give the ball away inexplicably which just gives the opposition confidence. Our sloppiness in possession today at times was driving me nuts.
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Plucky losers against the top teams & out muscled losers against lower teams. Apart from the start of this season its been a pattern for much of our time back in the Premier League.
When the intensity of the game goes up we can't cope.
That has as much to do with the lack of quality as anything but it's got to be addressed in the summer.
And Smith needs to step up too.
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Another incredibly frustrating 90 minutes. Played some dominant, fluid stuff for the first 20 minutes, worked the channels, won the ball midfield, kept it, used it well. But then all of those things just seem to disappear from our game, most notably ball retention and passing to our own team mates. Quite what happens to cause this I really don't know. Proper Jekyll and Hyde.
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I wasn’t a great fan of Leeds before this season either but, have to hand it to them, they have played a fairly consistent style of play all season, which I have come to admire. No chance of them being relegated next season.
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Leeds are a great example of a team with a number of good not necessarily great players,like ourselves but has manager that is tactically aware and can pre act during the game. Its clear his players know their individual job when they step out. I remember Tony Morley telling me once that Saunders instilled this in his players every time. Our players seem to drift away time after time
Leeds came up and took to the premier league like a duck to water. Anyway, it's up to us, in our third year back, to go and prove we are a top team.
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Leeds have a world class maverick in charge of them. A nice settled side that has remained more or less constant for 3 seasons under him. They are way beyond the sum of their parts.
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Game of halves and phases. Villa were great at times first half and rightfully led. Went onto shell when scored and then hit back immediately reasserting rightful dominance. I didn't enjoy the second half. Palace deserves to win.
Martinez Target McGinn Watkins decent enough for 7. But a general lack of consistency from the team today in quality.
El Ghazi , Hause , Elmo and Grealish notable mentions for glimpses.of quality offensive or defensive displays
Disappointed -
Ramsey would have been brilliant if he scored in 2nd minute.
Konsa had no clue and so slow defending Zaha for the goal deflected off Elmo. Made a couple of nice blocks but also very erratic at times and not dealing with defence situations as effective as previously in season
Luiz: Anonymous and coasting.
Traroe. Good set play corners but very poor generally largely ineffective far too passive and offered little cover to Elmo. Was right to be subbed . But pleasing to see him taking the set play corners.
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For me once again this game shows that AEG, Traore, Elmo, Hause and Davis are not of the required standard for us to progress. Ramsey shouldn’t be starting unless it’s necessary for injury reasons because he’s not ready yet, and that’s the very reason why Chuk shouldn’t be near even the bench yet. The deeper squad isn’t good enough when regulars are missing and we are just about at the level we should be if those players are required.
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If we are comparing ourselves to Leeds, then they are where they are because of the manager. Take him away, and they’ll be a Brighton.
Us- the owners are investing so much that we will be ok to good regardless. There comes a time when you just have so many good players, that whoever is in charge will be ok. Ryan mason has got spurs 2-0 up v wolves, case in point.
If the owners stick with smith and invest heavily and then he underperforms, we could become next year’s Chelsea with the right mid season appointment.
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Basically, don’t change for the sake of it, but be ruthless when the right manager is available,
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Martinez 7.
Elmo 6.5
honourable and honest. Prominent on ball in palace half. And offered himself at set plays as a threat
Targett 7
Mr consistent
Konsa 5.5
good blocks but marked down for poor defending. Very lacking in closing down Zaha and several times caught out. Seems inconsistent at the moment. Have a couple of efforts off target from corners and that but can play better and will do.
Hause 6.5
Considering hadn't played and everything was the better of central defenders. Unlucky not to score and offers a threat and present in opposite box.
marked down for booking and goal conceded from Benteke but also headed away and blocked several palace balls in yo area and good efforts to him
McGinn 7
Lovely goal.played so well first half and at times was good second half from a pretty weak effort from team. Great goal and had another effort second half
Douglas Luiz 5.5
Simple game didn't see him as someone who continued any good play second half. Needed to up his level and tempo
Ramsey 5.5
Developing but lacking the quality should have scored. Needed to come off sooner.
But needs an experienced head around him to guide him as showed some decent movement and quality running and energy
El Ghazi 6.5
Brilliant finish, some great delivery and attacking wing play
Better of the two wide forwards
Traore 5
Ropey . Good set play delivery but lacking continued effort unlike Watkins. Continue to offer little to no defensive assistance and no where to be seen in stopping Mitchell get cross in for Benteke header. Frustrating and disappointing play again from a team perspective.
And rightfully subbed.
Watkins :7 Never stops trying brilliant assist to El Ghazi.
Unlucky no goal for his continued effort His running of the ball nd awareness of his team mates is ace. I love him as a player
Grealish: 6 inefficient and unable to offer much. Great to have more minutes thougu I said we've seen the peak of him earlier this season up to January. Jack was ruthlessly fouled by palace players when had the ball. One occasion at dying embers the ref didn't even give a foul which was shocking . Saw some glimpses of class. Hasn't lost that ability on the ball.
Davis - should have made contact with his head not his shoulder missing last chance saloon in his one touch.
Wesley - Gave the ball away for a Palace break. no time otherwise to make impact with only 3 touches.
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4th bottom last 15 games in the form guide. Awful record
If that’s right it suggests we don’t have minor inconsistencies, but there is a deeper issue.
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COVID-19. Jack Grealish. 2 large structural deficiencies in our season.
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COVID-19. Jack Grealish. 2 large structural deficiencies in our season.
And being one of the few Premier League clubs who had to give their all until the final minute of last season didn't help.
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So we should be raring to go next season, then!!
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COVID-19. Jack Grealish. 2 large structural deficiencies in our season.
There is no doubt those things hugely impacted our season.
And there is not a chance on earth Dean Smith is getting fired. But I’ve said this before. We don’t need to worry about that. If things don’t continue to improve next season he won’t be here. I’m sure the owners/Purslow love him but this is a results business. And when your owners are lashing out the kind of money these fellas have they won’t be content with mid table. They will want a much larger ROI. I have no doubt that’s been spelled out to our manager and staff.
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If we start next season the way we are ending this season, Dean will be gone in October at the latest. Lovely guy but football is not about lovely guys, especially at this level.
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Reading match reports on various media outlets and this one caught my eye "Traore showed an alarming lack of respect for possession straight after Villa's opener which seemed to set the tone for the remainder of the game" I think this is a very good point.
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Which is why he should be a sub to come on when we are chasing a game, and nothing more
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2nd half horror show with dismal game management.
Whether Smith has £100 million, £200 million or £500 million to spend in the summer, it won't help his shortcomings as a Premier League manager.
He's done a great job to get us up, keep us up and put us into mid table. If we wish to seriously progress as a club, the owners and the board need to start having serious conversations.
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That’s what’s so great, you know they will have, and we are in capable hands
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2nd half horror show with dismal game management.
Whether Smith has £100 million, £200,000 million or £500,000 million to spend in the summer, it won't help his shortcomings as a Premier League manager.
He's done a great job to get us up, keep us up and put us into mid table. If we wish to seriously progress as a club, the owners and the board need to start having serious conversations.
If he can't build a top team with five hundred thousand million to spend he definitely deserves the sack.
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From making the game look easy for most of the first half we were beyond inept in the second. No doubt the manager will blame the players and not himself for the collapse. We could have lost by more in the end. Really poor second half against a shit Palace side.
Root of our problem (as its been for years) is our inability to retain the ball under pressure. We looked good in the first half because Palace didn't press us. Hodgson changed it in the second half, Townsend, Eze and Zaha kept the ball in our half, and we crumbled. Read for the Burnley game.
We need more players that are comfortable on the ball under pressure, not ones who look like someone had tossed them a primed hand grenade.
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I'm not surprised Elmo and El Ghazi faded given its been 10 or 11 hours since they last drank water, never mind took on sustenance.
Ramadan finished on Thursday night.
:)
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From making the game look easy for most of the first half we were beyond inept in the second. No doubt the manager will blame the players and not himself for the collapse. We could have lost by more in the end. Really poor second half against a shit Palace side.
Root of our problem (as its been for years) is our inability to retain the ball under pressure. We looked good in the first half because Palace didn't press us. Hodgson changed it in the second half, Townsend, Eze and Zaha kept the ball in our half, and we crumbled. Read for the Burnley game.
We need more players that are comfortable on the ball under pressure, not ones who look like someone had tossed them a primed hand grenade.
Traore is one of the worst for that. If he's not doing his one party trick he's a complete liability.
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COVID-19. Jack Grealish. 2 large structural deficiencies in our season.
And being one of the few Premier League clubs who had to give their all until the final minute of last season didn't help.
Now I understand why West Ham have missed out on Champions League place.
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COVID-19. Jack Grealish. 2 large structural deficiencies in our season.
And being one of the few Premier League clubs who had to give their all until the final minute of last season didn't help.
Now I understand why West Ham have missed out on Champions League place.
I would say our intensity at the end of last season, coupled with the short preseason helped us if anything. We started the season hot while many teams were stone cold, and if, heaven help us, our post-Xmas slump has been regressing to the mean rather than a dip, then that hot streak pre-Xmas kept us up.
Side note, whenever Dean set the team an ad hoc target this season, they let him down badly.
"Europe is the goal now": fail.
"Top half has to be the goal now": fail.
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COVID-19. Jack Grealish. 2 large structural deficiencies in our season.
And being one of the few Premier League clubs who had to give their all until the final minute of last season didn't help.
Now I understand why West Ham have missed out on Champions League place.
West Ham were safe two weeks before we were. That's my point.
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2nd half horror show with dismal game management.
Whether Smith has £100 million, £200,000 million or £500,000 million to spend in the summer, it won't help his shortcomings as a Premier League manager.
He's done a great job to get us up, keep us up and put us into mid table. If we wish to seriously progress as a club, the owners and the board need to start having serious conversations.
If he can't build a top team with five hundred thousand million to spend he definitely deserves the sack.
:)
Agreed, he'd have the second biggest PL budget after Man Citeh so should at least make top 4.
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Deano just didn't react to the Palace dominance at the start of the second half. Similar to the Burnley away game. Why was Eze was given the freedom if midfield is a mystery. Rather than 3 forwards he surely should have put on Nakamba. Very poor game management.
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Really poor second half as had been said, started to let Eze have a free reign and to be fair to them they also hit the bar twice, so no misfortune at our end. We opened up Palace at will first half and they were there for the taking.
Barkley has been a massive let down, but today shows why Smith has been picking him, apart from Leeds away, every time Ramsey has started he hasn’t been up to scratch, to weak in the challenge, to predictable in his passing, to slow to shoot, loses his man too easily. He’s only young and will get better hopefully, but shows why calls for throwing in the kids is wide of the mark.
Grealish looks off the pace but I’d rather start him for last 2 games and allow him time to grow into the game and take him off when he tires.
The comparison to Leeds on this thread are interesting. This time last year lots on here we’re lauding Chris Wilder and Sheffield Utd and lauding them in direct comparison to Smiths deficiencies. Good luck to Leeds and Bielsa, but there is no certainty they will progress next year and absolutely no certainty they will progress at a better rate than us, like Sheffield their style of play will be found out for one. It all depends on keeping Grealish and who we buy, we need to buy a defensive midfielder and much better right winger and another forward.
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Thankfully I have 24 cans of 9% lemon sour type alcohol thing. A joint or a bag of magic mushrooms would really take the edge off. Unfortunately the latter would end up with me being deported.
Up the Villa all.
Just tell immigration we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
Works a treat, I find.
Bill????
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West Ham were safe two weeks before we were. That's my point.
I really don't think that having to continue to win games made all that much difference. The likes of Martinez, Ollie, Barkley, Traore and Cash weren't here anyway, and El Ghazi was mostly a very late sub for the last few games of last season.
Our players don't look tired, they're just not very well organised at the moment.
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Smith is to slow to change things when the game starts turning against us. We need to get Tammy back in the summer. He knows his Chelsea era will not blossom under Tuchel nor will his England one. And in my opinion i would ge walking up the road and rescue Pereria from the baggies. He is far too good for the championship
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Good first half bad second half.
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Good first half bad second half.
That sums up the season in a nutshell Darren :)
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I just think it’s been too hard to keep the intensity going - I’m not too disappointed but know we could have pushed on a bit.
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Should have been out of sight in the first half. The second half was disgusting and to a man they should be ashamed.
Dean deserves to spend the Summer 'warchest', but next season he needs to deliver on challenging for Europe, or step aside.
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Who was Captain today?
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McGinn
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Absolutely Seething
sloppy,predictable,frustrating
slow to react and the opposing manager gets one over us again.
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Agree with most of whats been said, we were still ahead but under huge pressure, Nakamba should have been bought on to help steady the midfield instead he brings Jack on who everyone can see is way off the pace, Traore again did nothing all game and while he may be better with a complete pre-season i have my doubts. The gloss of the first half of the season has well faded and while DS has been good for us, and should be given the chance to rectify the glaring weaknesses next season, i'm not sure he can improve his tactical awareness.
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His game management currently leaves a lot to be desired but I still think (hope) he will come good.
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His game management currently leaves a lot to be desired but I still think (hope) he will come good.
Yep that’s it for me. He’s done well overall and deserves an opportunity next year, but he really really needs to show development with his game management/tactical awareness.
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Didn't see the game and only watching back the second half now.
It was embarrassing how Mitchell got to that ball for their winner. McGinn seemed to miss the header. Elmo standing like a statue and Martinez can't be hiding on his line either.
We got absolutely rinsed in midfield second half.
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Nakamba would have been perfect for that game , I really don't know what his problem is with playing him . becoming boring seeing the same old team and failure to change tack
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McGinn
He disappeared second half.
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Just seen Smith’s after match interview and swear that he’s sees a completely different match to what I’ve been witnessing. He was saying how great we were in the first half, I made it we were on top for the first 20 minutes. Basically then brushed that appalling second half performance under the carpet. All I ever want from our manager is an honest appraisal over the 90 minutes of a match not just highlight the bits that he likes.
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In Smiths defence, he did bring Grealish on when we were still leading. Though Palace were certainly well on top at the time. Grealish's influence helped turn the game I thought at the time, winning free kicks and yellow cards. Until they scored a couple of farcical goals but also hit the crossbar twice. Did we threaten a response? Maybe just the Davis header.
I only saw the second half but we started very bright. Both AEG and Watkins didn't make the best of promising openings. But I thought our shape was poor. Our defensive line was far too deep. Our midfield two offered no cover at all to them. Watkins hold up play and touch were horrid so we struggled to counter attack. Smith really should have changed our shape to counteract Eze who seemed to have the freedom of the pitch. Surely Luiz could have been detailed to keep tabs on him or Ramsey. Not McGinn already on a yellow.
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His game management currently leaves a lot to be desired but I still think (hope) he will come good.
Yep that’s it for me. He’s done well overall and deserves an opportunity next year, but he really really needs to show development with his game management/tactical awareness.
The game was carbon copy of Burnley away pretty much. Four months. Not convinced it will be any different in September. I think DS lacks the conviction the best managers have to make instant decisions during games which is why he's so regularly asking the opinions of his assistants during matches. Nothing wrong with listening to advice but sometimes you've got to be bold and make a quick decision while accepting it may not work out.
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I thought Luiz played well. Pretty much always found a Villa player with his passes, made some telling interceptions and harried the opposition. He was let down by McGinn's second half fade (and several stray passes not to mention the 'Hollywood' hoofs) and the absence of awareness by Ramsey.
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What was the point of bringing Wesley on for the last few minutes, the guy looks totally lost i can't remember him touching the ball on his cameo appearances.
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Heard an interview with Dean after the game saying that Palace changed the way the were playing in 2nd half - sorry Dean it is your responsibility to change the way we are playing to match them and then impose our game on them!
Another disappointing loss, hopefully we can win at Spurs
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Agreed
If the owners want to make the next step and invest again, i don't think Smith is the guy. We need a name that can attract quality and someone more flexible in game management
His game management currently leaves a lot to be desired but I still think (hope) he will come good.
Yep that’s it for me. He’s done well overall and deserves an opportunity next year, but he really really needs to show development with his game management/tactical awareness.
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What was the point of bringing Wesley on for the last few minutes, the guy looks totally lost i can't remember him touching the ball on his cameo appearances.
I thought the timing of that sub was odd. Would surely have been better off bringing both Wes and Davis on at the same time. Wouldn't have taken AEG off either when chasing a goal. McGinn or Luis were offering nothing by then so either could have been hooked and Jack dropped in there. We ended up with very little width for a finish.
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Ramsay is getting a lot of experience. He's young and in a very busy and intense role. I've not seen the stats but I reckon he covers an awful lot of ground.
As for not influencing the game enough, there really aren't that many players that have ever done that at his age. Give him the time and he'll learn and get better.
Grealish needs game time and I'm sure that Smith is hoping it helps him get a Euros spot. He's clearly not fit yet and not completely confident he's healed.
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Watching Ramsay i would say he has good foot skills and usually finds his man, he is finding his place in a very competative game. Think he will come good but needs to be more assertive.
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Watching Ramsay i would say he has good foot skills and usually finds his man, he is finding his place in a very competative game. Think he will come good but needs to be more assertive.
He's quick too. Don't think 10 is his position though. He certainly presses well, and that stands out in comparison to Barkley, but you need a bit more guile to play in that role at this level. In a three man midfield I think he can have a bright future and maybe on right side at times in front of Cash. Seems to me as if he needs a bit more direction on what's expected of him in his role when he starts. All young players do.
Bit harsh to pick him out for particular criticism yesterday anyway. The other two in midfield are a lot more experienced but offered nothing without the ball in the second half. They should be able at this stage to react to what's happening on the pitch and not require direction from the sideline. McGinn might aswell have not been on the pitch after he got booked.
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The game pretty much summed up this season; beautiful to watch first half, generally crap second half.
Other than a strong, defensive midfielder, more than anything we need to be looking to bring in some creativity in the summer.
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Heard an interview with Dean after the game saying that Palace changed the way the were playing in 2nd half - sorry Dean it is your responsibility to change the way we are playing to match them and then impose our game on them!
Another disappointing loss, hopefully we can win at Spurs
Can't say we weren't warned either, Benteke and Eze hit crossbar at 1-2 and they Zaha had some dangerous crosses cleared. Not like their first which pretty much came against run of play.
Sometimes think DS just accepts opposition having 10 minute spell of sustained pressure and just hopes the team can get through it. Sometimes we do like at Southampton and Brighton when we were generally battered in both second halves but got away with it, others like yesterday and Burnley we don't.
Arsenal away last season when we were 2-1 up and playing v 10 men but did nothing to counter Arsenal changing things in midfield.
I could accept yesterday's defeat more if say Nakamba had come on with Grealish and maybe we'd gone to a midfield 4 (with Jack just playing off Ollie) and maybe got Ramsey to track Zaha more, that might've been reasonably effective.
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Watching Ramsay i would say he has good foot skills and usually finds his man, he is finding his place in a very competative game. Think he will come good but needs to be more assertive.
I like him and this is great experience for him. It amazes me how many want us to throw in the youth but when we do some are very quick to rule them out and want to send them away on loan.
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There's almost a bit of naivety that we show when leading. We paly an open system with two wide players. When we are defending a lead, we should - I think - go a little narrower, with a mobile and tenacious midfield that can support both attacking and defensive situations.
We were right to take off Traore - he'd had a mare of a game, and it was the opportunity to narrow the team; we didn't.
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Regarding the midfield, I'm assuming that Sanson was signed to fill that kind of holding role, but he seems to have a fairly longish-term injury which will presumably keep him out of the next two games. maybe a full pre-season and more game time will allow us to see what he's about.
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Agree that Traore had a fairly anonymous game, but even then he showed flashes of what he can do. It's coaxing him to be more consistent in these flashes of brilliance that's the key. he's obviously very talented but sometimes struggles to get into games.
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Biggest problems with Traore, as a winger, are he can’t defend and can’t go past a player on the outside. Always turns back onto his left foot and loses the momentum of our attacks. At best he is a bench player and is one we could do with an upgrade on. I know he gets the odd goal but, like El Ghazi, goes missing for long periods of the game.
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Biggest problems with Traore, as a winger, are he can’t defend and can’t go past a player on the outside. Always turns back onto his left foot and loses the momentum of our attacks. At best he is a bench player and is one we could do with an upgrade on. I know he gets the odd goal but, like El Ghazi, goes missing for long periods of the game.
To a degree, this posts sums up Dean Smith too. Great when it's all going well, but we go missing for large chunks of the season. 4 wins in 24?
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Heard an interview with Dean after the game saying that Palace changed the way the were playing in 2nd half - sorry Dean it is your responsibility to change the way we are playing to match them and then impose our game on them!
Another disappointing loss, hopefully we can win at Spurs
Can't say we weren't warned either, Benteke and Eze hit crossbar at 1-2 and they Zaha had some dangerous crosses cleared. Not like their first which pretty much came against run of play.
Sometimes think DS just accepts opposition having 10 minute spell of sustained pressure and just hopes the team can get through it. Sometimes we do like at Southampton and Brighton when we were generally battered in both second halves but got away with it, others like yesterday and Burnley we don't.
Arsenal away last season when we were 2-1 up and playing v 10 men but did nothing to counter Arsenal changing things in midfield.
I could accept yesterday's defeat more if say Nakamba had come on with Grealish and maybe we'd gone to a midfield 4 (with Jack just playing off Ollie) and maybe got Ramsey to track Zaha more, that might've been reasonably effective.
I don't think it's a case of Dean Smith "accepting" a 10 minute spell of pressure. We are playing in an elite league and every single team in it will inevitably put pressure on their opponents at some point. We have coped by and large as our defensive record proves. 15 clean sheets in the Premier league is no mean feat. We lost 50% of our regular defence for the Palace game and that obviously made us more vulnerable than usual. We needed to keep them on the back foot for as long as possible which we achieved for the first 20/30 minutes but you can't expect to sustain that for 90 minutes. They hit the bar twice that's true but only Ezes effort had Martinez beaten and the two goals they did score in the second half were both very flukey. We lost a game that we could so easily have won. We're still heading in the right direction as a club so let's not lose sight of that.
And while I'm at it the title of this thread is ridiculous. Utterly inept Aston Villa? I don't think so. We lost a game and we were put on the back foot for most of the second half. There were mitigating circumstances. We were not utterly inept.
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Heard an interview with Dean after the game saying that Palace changed the way the were playing in 2nd half - sorry Dean it is your responsibility to change the way we are playing to match them and then impose our game on them!
Another disappointing loss, hopefully we can win at Spurs
Can't say we weren't warned either, Benteke and Eze hit crossbar at 1-2 and they Zaha had some dangerous crosses cleared. Not like their first which pretty much came against run of play.
Sometimes think DS just accepts opposition having 10 minute spell of sustained pressure and just hopes the team can get through it. Sometimes we do like at Southampton and Brighton when we were generally battered in both second halves but got away with it, others like yesterday and Burnley we don't.
Arsenal away last season when we were 2-1 up and playing v 10 men but did nothing to counter Arsenal changing things in midfield.
I could accept yesterday's defeat more if say Nakamba had come on with Grealish and maybe we'd gone to a midfield 4 (with Jack just playing off Ollie) and maybe got Ramsey to track Zaha more, that might've been reasonably effective.
that is the sort of intervention you are never going to get with Smith.
He allows our midfield to get over run and stands their scratching his head.
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I thought the title was silly as well. 'Utterly inept' IMO doesn't fit a team who dominated one half of the game, scoring twice and who really should have had more in that period.