Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on April 09, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
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https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/april/Aston-Villa-Publish-2019-20-Year-End-Accounts/
Debt free. Thanks NSWE
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The accountants can do the analysis but my take is that our owners are filthy rich and not afraid to spend it.
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Irrelevant what we publish, the real news will be from that Villaleaks scruff over on SHA.
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Wow. All-round wow.
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Ah, a great bunch of lads, Naseef and Wes. Would warm your cockles after the news of Prince Phil just missing out on his centenary.
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Everything you could possibly wish for in owners. That's incredible, from the state of where we found ourselves to where we are now, without a penny of debt.
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It's nuts! And the nuts too.
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So curious about the plans for Villa Park mentioned.
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that's great news..... I have no clue about company finances - but they've really secured our future in so many ways.
I wonder if owners that rich would know accountants who could figure the books :D
these guys are great.
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Everything you could possibly wish for in owners. That's incredible, from the state of where we found ourselves to where we are now, without a penny of debt.
And it winds the SHA mob up to. They've been on the brink of disaster for years, then for a while under Stoney Broke Shitty Shoe Tone we look like going down the plug hole with them. Then *boom* out of nowhere two brilliant gazillionaires come and rescue us, and turn out to be almost flawless owners. Spawny Vile Bastards indeed!
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Marvellous.
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Everything you could possibly wish for in owners. That's incredible, from the state of where we found ourselves to where we are now, without a penny of debt.
And it winds the SHA mob up to. They've been on the brink of disaster for years, then for a while under Stoney Broke Shitty Shoe Tone we look like going down the plug hole with them. Then *boom* out of nowhere two brilliant gazillionaires come and rescue us, and turn out to be almost flawless owners. Spawny Vile Bastards indeed!
Just had a look over there, in between Grealish going into rehab they have of course completely misunderstood how the owners have invested into the club.
I will miss them when they're gone.
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Marvellous.
But sooooo spawwwny.
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Everything you could possibly wish for in owners. That's incredible, from the state of where we found ourselves to where we are now, without a penny of debt.
And it winds the SHA mob up to. They've been on the brink of disaster for years, then for a while under Stoney Broke Shitty Shoe Tone we look like going down the plug hole with them. Then *boom* out of nowhere two brilliant gazillionaires come and rescue us, and turn out to be almost flawless owners. Spawny Vile Bastards indeed!
You said that, so I popped over for a look. Now I've not clicked on it yet, but I see there's a new Villa thread been started at around half eleven this morning. I'd wager anybody a pound that this is what it's about. I'm going in...
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Everything you could possibly wish for in owners. That's incredible, from the state of where we found ourselves to where we are now, without a penny of debt.
And it winds the SHA mob up to. They've been on the brink of disaster for years, then for a while under Stoney Broke Shitty Shoe Tone we look like going down the plug hole with them. Then *boom* out of nowhere two brilliant gazillionaires come and rescue us, and turn out to be almost flawless owners. Spawny Vile Bastards indeed!
You said that, so I popped over for a look. Now I've not clicked on it yet, but I see there's a new Villa thread been started at around half eleven this morning. I'd wager anybody a pound that this is what it's about. I'm going in...
I hope you've had your vaccine....
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Disappointed to discover it's 'only' about Grealish.
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What I love about our owners is that really quite quietly they’ve gone about their business. Rescuing us from the brink of oblivion. Literally. Appointing very good people in all positions (and I include Suso very much in that as many of his signings have turned out well) and letting them do their jobs. But they carried on just adding pieces to the club and setting us up for a sustained go at being a top side. And they will be the first to acknowledge we have a way to go. But this stuff doesn’t happen overnight. While NS may be the bigger gun when it comes to cash out Wes knows his sports too. And what he’s done with the Bucks with securing their best young players on long term deals he’s done the exact same with us. The future looks really good.
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Without COVID, our loss would have been roughly the same as the last year in the Championship, despite the big spend on players. The money in this league is nutty.
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how much have we spent on agents?
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The article makes great reading. Yes we were fortunate that our fantastic owners saved us from oblivion but I'd like to think that happened because of who we are. Aston Villa is an institution with a rich history since the inception of association football in which of course we played a major part. The haters from across the city call us spawny bastards because we struck lucky with NSWE but it's not just down to luck although I do thank McGrath every day that our club is under the stewardship of the brilliant Mr Sawiris and Mr Edens. The future is not only bright it's exciting. It's our turn now to show these owners that they made the right choice in purchasing Aston Villa by packing Villa Park to the rafters week in and week out when we finally get the chance.
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how much have we spent on agents?
Couldn't give a monkeys. We are debt free.
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The accountants can do the analysis but my take is that our owners are filthy rich and not afraid to spend it.
You sound to me like a very diligent Forensic Financial Auditor.
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Amongst good news this is a statement of merit:
At the start of the pandemic Aston Villa made the decision not to utilise public funds via the Coronavirus Retention Scheme and did not furlough any members of staff. The Club continued to pay all employees throughout the Coronavirus period, including all our casual and matchday employees.
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Amongst good news this is a statement of merit:
At the start of the pandemic Aston Villa made the decision not to utilise public funds via the Coronavirus Retention Scheme and did not furlough any members of staff. The Club continued to pay all employees throughout the Coronavirus period, including all our casual and matchday employees.
now that is a touch of class.
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Absolutely. My brother works on the turnstiles and he's been getting his pay, in full, regular as clockwork. Really classy.
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Especially classier when you consider what some of the other Premier League clubs have done in the same situation.
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Thank the Lord for the bank of our 2 owners
The question is will we ever make a profit again?
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Thank the Lord for the bank of our 2 owners
The question is will we ever make a profit again?
They will want to increase the value of the asset rather than make profit.
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Maybe if we finally start winning trophies and selling millions of shirts world-wide we’ll start bringing in a few quid. Opens up a whole lot of different questions though.
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"The recruitment strategy is focused on securing talented young players on long-term contracts to build long-term asset value in our playing squad".
Does exactly what it says on the tin (Cash, Konsa, Watkins) Long may it continue. UTV
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Thank the Lord for the bank of our 2 owners
The question is will we ever make a profit again?
They will want to increase the value of the asset rather than make profit.
How do you increase the value of an Asset (by which I presume you mean the Football Club) by sustaining losses?
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Presumably by signing 'assets' whose value increases over time.
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I would imagine it's like spending money on your house - you'll how a loss over the year but the value increases.
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Thank the Lord for the bank of our 2 owners
The question is will we ever make a profit again?
They will want to increase the value of the asset rather than make profit.
How do you increase the value of an Asset (by which I presume you mean the Football Club) by sustaining losses?
I assume Man Utd are still in debt - and they're still quite an asset
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There seems to be some confusion between a Trading account (Profit and Loss), Cash Flow and a Balance Sheet.
Increasing the value of an Asset would not impact the Profit and Loss Account.
Incurring expense is different from investing in Assets
Yes Man Utd is in Debt as are pretty much every business on the planet.
The difference with Villa is that our Shareholders are Investing in the Club whereas Man Utd are Borrowing from Institutions generally via the Capital Markets.
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There are clearly some intangibles. The attractiveness of a club is hard to value isn't it?
But don't you think that Villa are now far more attractive and would cost a lot more than we did when NSWE bought us, despite the losses?
Pretty much all the players we've bought have increased in value, yet on the books they won't show that way will they?
The name of Aston Villa is being noticed again, we're performing well and that in itself is attractive. The owners can write off the losses against tax elsewhere too, so a loss isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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it's a lot more attractive - it's a Premier League club now compared to when they bought it.
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We'd be worth a good £350m now.
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I'm no account but..
(https://media.tenor.com/images/87951b2d8c43478d5b1f7140f7135e1e/tenor.gif)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/79/84/1b798430f722c9ea0a68d391bd03fbc9.gif)
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Come on, let's financially-dope our way to the top (with a bedrock of youth prospects turned good, obvs)!
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There are clearly some intangibles. The attractiveness of a club is hard to value isn't it?
But don't you think that Villa are now far more attractive and would cost a lot more than we did when NSWE bought us, despite the losses?
Pretty much all the players we've bought have increased in value, yet on the books they won't show that way will they?
The name of Aston Villa is being noticed again, we're performing well and that in itself is attractive. The owners can write off the losses against tax elsewhere too, so a loss isn't necessarily a bad thing.
You said “they will want to increase the value of an asset rather than make a profit”
Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
That’s why I asked you the question, which you obviously have a problem answering, so maybe stick to lecturing on political correctness and right on thinking.
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There are clearly some intangibles. The attractiveness of a club is hard to value isn't it?
But don't you think that Villa are now far more attractive and would cost a lot more than we did when NSWE bought us, despite the losses?
Pretty much all the players we've bought have increased in value, yet on the books they won't show that way will they?
The name of Aston Villa is being noticed again, we're performing well and that in itself is attractive. The owners can write off the losses against tax elsewhere too, so a loss isn't necessarily a bad thing.
You said “they will want to increase the value of an asset rather than make a profit”
Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
That’s why I asked you the question, which you obviously have a problem answering, so maybe stick to lecturing on political correctness and right on thinking.
Seems a bit uncalled for!
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There are clearly some intangibles. The attractiveness of a club is hard to value isn't it?
But don't you think that Villa are now far more attractive and would cost a lot more than we did when NSWE bought us, despite the losses?
Pretty much all the players we've bought have increased in value, yet on the books they won't show that way will they?
The name of Aston Villa is being noticed again, we're performing well and that in itself is attractive. The owners can write off the losses against tax elsewhere too, so a loss isn't necessarily a bad thing.
You said “they will want to increase the value of an asset rather than make a profit”
Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
That’s why I asked you the question, which you obviously have a problem answering, so maybe stick to lecturing on political correctness and right on thinking.
And maybe you could concentrate on posting without abuse.
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I’m no accountant either but I will go out on a limb and hazard a guess that both have more money in their current accounts than I have
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There are clearly some intangibles. The attractiveness of a club is hard to value isn't it?
But don't you think that Villa are now far more attractive and would cost a lot more than we did when NSWE bought us, despite the losses?
Pretty much all the players we've bought have increased in value, yet on the books they won't show that way will they?
The name of Aston Villa is being noticed again, we're performing well and that in itself is attractive. The owners can write off the losses against tax elsewhere too, so a loss isn't necessarily a bad thing.
You said “they will want to increase the value of an asset rather than make a profit”
Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Well, it does.
You realise the profit when you sell an asset at its increased value. I think what Drummond is saying is that they're in it for that, rather than draining the club of money from one year to the next (if they were in it for that, they'd have to be in it for the long term anyway as that's not happening for a while).
They are clearly playing the long game.
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There are clearly some intangibles. The attractiveness of a club is hard to value isn't it?
But don't you think that Villa are now far more attractive and would cost a lot more than we did when NSWE bought us, despite the losses?
Pretty much all the players we've bought have increased in value, yet on the books they won't show that way will they?
The name of Aston Villa is being noticed again, we're performing well and that in itself is attractive. The owners can write off the losses against tax elsewhere too, so a loss isn't necessarily a bad thing.
You said “they will want to increase the value of an asset rather than make a profit”
Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
That’s why I asked you the question, which you obviously have a problem answering, so maybe stick to lecturing on political correctness and right on thinking.
A tad aggressive old bean. Imagine my post had been written by someone you don't have a problem with and then it might make sense.
The owners don't mind making a loss in a year if overall the value keeps increasing. Which it will, and is.
I'm sorry you don't understand my point and that what I'm saying doesn't make sense to you.
As an example spend a bit of time on Transfrmarkt.. Most of the players we've signed have increased in value (in their view obviously, but I'd imagine many others' too) since we've bought them, though that won't be shown in the accounts anywhere, though their cost will. The asset may show too but it won't have increased in value.
The appearance of the club and reputation and place in the Premier League will have an effect on the value of the club as an asset worth selling, even though there is a trading loss to get us there.
The next TV deals will be worth a lot, which will add value again. They got us on the cheap when we were at a very low ebb and the money they've pumped in so far will not be a problem to recoup of they decide to get out.
The value of Premier League clubs keeps going up, it's why it's attractive to investors, that and the vanity aspect.
Which question haven't I answered?
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There are clearly some intangibles. The attractiveness of a club is hard to value isn't it?
But don't you think that Villa are now far more attractive and would cost a lot more than we did when NSWE bought us, despite the losses?
Pretty much all the players we've bought have increased in value, yet on the books they won't show that way will they?
The name of Aston Villa is being noticed again, we're performing well and that in itself is attractive. The owners can write off the losses against tax elsewhere too, so a loss isn't necessarily a bad thing.
You said “they will want to increase the value of an asset rather than make a profit”
Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Well, it does.
You realise the profit when you sell an asset at its increased value. I think what Drummond is saying is that they're in it for that, rather than draining the club of money from one year to the next (if they were in it for that, they'd have to be in it for the long term anyway as that's not happening for a while).
They are clearly playing the long game.
Yep.
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So if we sell Mings for example, we are selling an asset at an increased value, is that the only way we can make a profit?
We would have to be selling our best players each season to make a profit - is this correct?
Mings currently would be worth £50 million however the older he becomes his transfer value will drop, so should we sell him this summer to get the full value for him.
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But Mings's value doesn't just lie in his transfer price, he can help inflate the asset (as long as he stops passing to opposition strikers).
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In old fashioned football terminology, the owners are having to speculate to accumulate.
The only way you make money out of Premier League football is to increase your revenue. A club of our size simply can’t cut costs to a level which would turn a profit given the revenue we’re currently showing.
So they’re over-investing now to try to build the revenue base such that we have a sustainable club in the future. In the short term, that revenue base will probably be more heavily weighted towards significant player sales so that we adhere to FFP but longer term the plan would no doubt be to reduce our reliance on player sales.
All clubs rely on player sales to an extent though.
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So if we sell Mings for example, we are selling an asset at an increased value, is that the only way we can make a profit?
We would have to be selling our best players each season to make a profit - is this correct?
Mings currently would be worth £50 million however the older he becomes his transfer value will drop, so should we sell him this summer to get the full value for him.
No, the more valuable and recognisable the club is a brand the more commercially viable it becomes so we get bigger and better sponsorships, we get more full crowds (daytripper support is a huge moneymaker for Man Utd and Liverpool).
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https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1386924270526341122?s=19
Interesting analysis on The Swiss Ramble this morning...
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https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1386924270526341122?s=19
Interesting analysis on The Swiss Ramble this morning...
Very interesting. Productivity will be down in the Bristol area this morning.
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I lost the will to live six tweets in.
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You lasted that long!
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I read all of it, and understood maybe 10%? I did read the phrase 'virtually debt-free' though so I liked that.
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You lasted that long!
I'm a slave to the rhythm!
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You lasted that long!
I'm a slave to the rhythm!
<Frankie Howerd> Oh No Mrs, wait no Oo-er Mrs</Frankie Howerd>
On a more serious point the things I picked up:
- Debt Free
- Revenue from Project restart will be booked into this years accounts (not much I'm sure but will help FFP)
- Our revenue overall is dismal compared to our peers across matchday income, broadcast and commercial.
- Player trading continues to be unprofitable and will probably continue as we invest further in the squad.
- Wages to turnover ratio improved but is still eye watering at 97%
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You lasted that long!
I'm a slave to the rhythm!
<Frankie Howerd> Oh No Mrs, wait no Oo-er Mrs</Frankie Howerd>
On a more serious point the things I picked up:
- Debt Free
- Revenue from Project restart will be booked into this years accounts (not much I'm sure but will help FFP)
- Our revenue overall is dismal compared to our peers across matchday income, broadcast and commercial.
- Player trading continues to be unprofitable and will probably continue as we invest further in the squad.
- Wages to turnover ratio improved but is still eye watering at 97%
the 97% is very misleading becuase of the amount of lost revenue (much of which is covered by the first line). Remove the lost and deferred revenue from covid and it's 68% which is fine.
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You lasted that long!
I'm a slave to the rhythm!
<Frankie Howerd> Oh No Mrs, wait no Oo-er Mrs</Frankie Howerd>
On a more serious point the things I picked up:
- Debt Free
- Revenue from Project restart will be booked into this years accounts (not much I'm sure but will help FFP)
- Our revenue overall is dismal compared to our peers across matchday income, broadcast and commercial.
- Player trading continues to be unprofitable and will probably continue as we invest further in the squad.
- Wages to turnover ratio improved but is still eye watering at 97%
the 97% is very misleading becuase of the amount of lost revenue (much of which is covered by the first line). Remove the lost and deferred revenue from covid and it's 68% which is fine.
Fair point paul, hadn't computed one with the other.
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I was reading some Swiss Ramble tweets the other day trying to work out if Spurs are skint (it’s obligatory to bring spurs into these conversations right?) and even with government bailouts they need to spend £30-40m on loan interest each season/year.
That sounds horrendous compared to our generous owners however their match day revenue has doubled. ...Next there was loads of noise about the diminishing importance of match day income... In addition the NFL/concerts will bring in additional/significant revenue.
Which got me thinking, if we were to extend the ground is there a way we could undercut London and be an alternative location for NFL games. I’m sure it’d sell out and I doubt the average American would care/know the game was in Birmingham, not London. It could be really lucrative but not easy to accommodate whilst having a compact ground.
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We could get UK RedSox to broker the deal.
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We could get UK RedSox to broker the deal.
He is a rounders dude.
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Read that this season our bank of Nas and Wes have put nearly £100 million into the club just to keep it ticking over (incredible amount)
And we moan when our season tickets increase by £20.00 per season
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Read that this season our bank of Nas and Wes have put nearly £100 million into the club just to keep it ticking over (incredible amount)
And we moan when our season tickets increase by £20.00 per season
Do we?
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I've the last near two years telling anyone that would listen what great value my season ticket is in comparison to most others.
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I've the last near two years telling anyone that would listen what great value my season ticket is in comparison to most others.
You didn't tell me and I hang on your every word.
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I've the last near two years telling anyone that would listen what great value my season ticket is in comparison to most others.
I’m so happy with such good value that I didn’t even bother cashing them in back in because of Covid
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Read that this season our bank of Nas and Wes have put nearly £100 million into the club just to keep it ticking over (incredible amount)
And we moan when our season tickets increase by £20.00 per season
Do we?
It would be nice to find out tbf.