Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on December 01, 2020, 12:19:39 AM
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There is something about us this season that makes me feel we may, just may be on the verge of something really, really good.
We seem to veer from haplessly shooting ourselves in the foot to fearlessly brushing aside some of the best sides in the country (and Arsenal). I know this is frustrating, it's really annoying to see games like this evening pan out as it did, but I am starting to get the initial whiff of a 'swagger'.
We quite clearly are a work in progress, and there's a great deal of volatility in the team in that we are inconsistent, but I am honestly starting to think, if a few things go well for us in terms of keeping key players and recruiting well, we could just be on the cusp of significantly happier times.
And I say that as - I believe - the original coiner of the phrase 'happy clappers' on here, and one with a multi year history of being on the miserablist wing of the H&V community.
It's hard to explain, i just see a few things showing immense promise, and I just feel like there might be something about to happen. After years of crushing mediocrity, it is at least interesting to watch.
If only we could actually go to the games.
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Oh and one other thing, at least it's not boring.
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There is a definite improvement in a lot of things to last season. We are creating numerous chances, scoring goals and overall defending better. I know we just don't have the rewards for it the past number of games if you take out Arsenal which was superb. I think we are still 4 or 5 players away, but when you look at what West Ham have spent the past few seasons you can see that we still have a bit to go to rival even their depth of talent. We go at teams, we have the best pure footballer in the league, we are much better in goal. We have room to grow and improve. At LB, LCB, in midfield so we don't get a drop off to Hourihane when Barkley is out. We can improve at RW and we can still improve up front. Ollie has been a wonderful surprise but we cannot put it all on him. I want him to compete for that lone striker spot and we cannot offer that now. In my opinion we are 5 solid players away from top 7/8 on a regular basis.
This season I think we will end up somewhere close to 52 points which will be around 10th/11th. That will be a great improvement on last season and something all of us at the start of this would have happily accepted. The one thing I will say is that while losing to Brighton or West Ham or Leeds isn't great, that we no longer start games in fear of a battering from anyone including the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U etc is a huge step forward. We may still get a hammering here or there but we can also hand them out.
This season as shit as defeats are in the moment, was always about progress. If there is any chance of adding some proper talent in January (hard to do) then maybe 8th or 9th is achieveable. But I will take 11th tomorrow if offered which will mean we will have nights like Arsenal and nights like tonight also.
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There is something about us this season that makes me feel we may, just may be on the verge of something really, really good.
We seem to veer from haplessly shooting ourselves in the foot to fearlessly brushing aside some of the best sides in the country (and Arsenal). I know this is frustrating, it's really annoying to see games like this evening pan out as it did, but I am starting to get the initial whiff of a 'swagger'.
We quite clearly are a work in progress, and there's a great deal of volatility in the team in that we are inconsistent, but I am honestly starting to think, if a few things go well for us in terms of keeping key players and recruiting well, we could just be on the cusp of significantly happier times.
And I say that as - I believe - the original coiner of the phrase 'happy clappers' on here, and one with a multi year history of being on the miserablist wing of the H&V community.
It's hard to explain, i just see a few things showing immense promise, and I just feel like there might be something about to happen. After years of crushing mediocrity, it is at least interesting to watch.
If only we could actually go to the games.
I am in no doubt about this.
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Something that I only thought of last week. How many clubs spend three years in the Championship then go on to become established in the Premier League? There aren't that many who do it, and most spend at least a couple of seasons struggling. Twelfth or above will be a great achievement.
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I love us this season. You never know if we'll absolutely hammer a top side or lose to a shit one and it's fun. If we can cut out stupid errors we'll be a very good side.
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For me this is the perfect season to have a go in the FA Cup. I am pretty confident we will finish mid table. Hopefully by January that is more cemented than it is now. And if so go for it.
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For me this is the perfect season to have a go in the FA Cup. I am pretty confident we will finish mid table. Hopefully by January that is more cemented than it is now. And if so go for it.
I actually think it is our volatility that will do for us in the cup.
I think we've more chance of s decent league season
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"I think we are still 4 or 5 players away" - TV
I agree with this, TV; we still need some more depth, but I agree with PW that there are some green shoots here that could become something grand if we keep our better players and add some other quality starters.
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Seems a bit like BFR's first season to me. We will have some exciting games and others where it doesn't quite click. Lots of the players will go on to become very popular, if they haven't already. We will be nowhere near relegation but won't seriously threaten the top of the table either. And we give ourselves a platform to have a proper go at silverware in the coming seasons.
So, yeah, I'm not getting too distraught after each defeat. Doesn't feel as catastrophic as in previous seasons.
I am more optimistic about the future than I have been since the early good times under Lerner. These guys seem to have put in a far better structure though, so one managerial departure or other change of personnel wouldn't totally derail everything.
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For me this is the perfect season to have a go in the FA Cup. I am pretty confident we will finish mid table. Hopefully by January that is more cemented than it is now. And if so go for it.
I actually think it is our volatility that will do for us in the cup.
I think we've more chance of s decent league season
Maybe. You only need 5 or 6 good wins and we are capable of that against any opponents. If we play a decent side, not the muppets who got done against Stoke, then I think we could make a run. But whether it is league or cup, as much as we can win any game it's those stupid errors that will cost us in any game.
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The worry is that in 1991-92 and also 1979-80, we were on an upward trajectory, whereas we're still suffering now from a decade of failure. Therefore every win is seen as a blip and every defeat a return to the norm.
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I am not happy about the schoolboy errors of last season rearing their ugly head again but we are clearly better all round from last season. I suspect we will be inconsistent and will have to wait from game to game to find out which Villa will turn up the Dr Jekyll Villa or Mr Hyde Villa. But we can't complain too much about being inconsistent when pretty much every team in the league has been inconsistent. The only consistent team in the league so far has been Sheffield United who have been consistently shite.
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"I think we are still 4 or 5 players away" - TV
I agree with this, TV; we still need some more depth, but I agree with PW that there are some green shoots here that could become something grand if we keep our better players and add some other quality starters.
I also want to see that depth emerge from the kids. We are starting to see it but our bench still is players that at PL shouldn't be there. Love Elmo, but his time is done. Taylor, AEG, Nakamba, Davis, Engels etc. I want Dean to be brave and throw a talent like Ramsey or Barry on and see what happens. Maybe/hopefully we will see that once we are safe.
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Although 79-80 we'd been in the third Division a few years before.
I always think third Division to league champions, European champions and back to the second Division in fifteen or so years is one of the most insane journeys in English football.
To put it in context, it's like all that happening between the year before Lerner and now.
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Someone should write a book about that. Dave.
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"I think we are still 4 or 5 players away" - TV
I agree with this, TV; we still need some more depth, but I agree with PW that there are some green shoots here that could become something grand if we keep our better players and add some other quality starters.
I also want to see that depth emerge from the kids. We are starting to see it but our bench still is players that at PL shouldn't be there. Love Elmo, but his time is done. Taylor, AEG, Nakamba, Davis, Engels etc. I want Dean to be brave and throw a talent like Ramsey or Barry on and see what happens. Maybe/hopefully we will see that once we are safe.
I wonder what has happened with Engels
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Oh and one other thing, at least it's not boring.
We were never being boring. 30 years old, can you believe...
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The other thing about this squad is that for the first time in many years, I actually like most of our players and staff.
- We have senior pros like Elmo, McGinn, Jack, Barkley and Mings instead of Lescott, Gabby, Lansbury (in the squad at least!) and Richards taking the piss.
- Mings, whatever your thoughts about him as a player, as a bloke is top notch.
- Trez, who while limited as a player, can't be faulted for effort. He made me chuckle tonight whien he was standing dripping with blood, clearly a bit out of it, seemingly arguing that he shouldn't be going off. 100% effort.
- Jack, from our academy to the country's new great hope, and still seems proper grounded with all he does for local charities.
- Deano, from helping his old man as a kid at the ground to managing us
- Hungry, talented young players getting better and better like Konsa, Luiz and Cash
- Some exciting prospects in the youths like Ramsey and Barry, hopefully who will get some gametime this year.
- Martinez - the best keeper we've had in years. As much as I like Heaton and even Steer, Martinez just seems to be that one step up. And about six steps up from Nyland.
A couple of signings in January to bump the likes of Hourihane and El Ghazi from the bench and challenge the likes of Trez and Targett for a first team spot, and we have every chance of a top 10 spot. Who would possibly have thought that three games before the end of last season?
As Paulie said, it's certainly not boring.
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Someone should write a book about that. Dave.
As I've said many times before, there's nothing more than can be written on the subject. It's been done to death.
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"I think we are still 4 or 5 players away" - TV
I agree with this, TV; we still need some more depth, but I agree with PW that there are some green shoots here that could become something grand if we keep our better players and add some other quality starters.
I also want to see that depth emerge from the kids. We are starting to see it but our bench still is players that at PL shouldn't be there. Love Elmo, but his time is done. Taylor, AEG, Nakamba, Davis, Engels etc. I want Dean to be brave and throw a talent like Ramsey or Barry on and see what happens. Maybe/hopefully we will see that once we are safe.
I wonder what has happened with Engels
He made the bench a couple of games ago. Apparently injured again. We don't half have some players made of glass.
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I know what you mean Paulie, if this team believed they could be a real force. But there is a missing ingredient, it might be that one player we need to install leadership on the pitch.
We could be on the verge of greatness but we need to find the missing link or
A New Dawn Fades
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I agree and have said to mates this season, even when we lose the players look like they believe they are an established upper level PL team, we belong here.
Biggest problem is that we look pretty weak after the first XI but that’s to be expected.
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I have to agree.
I’m really enjoying watching us play at the moment.
Compared to last season the entertainment factor has gone through the roof and personally I look forward games with excitement rather than dread.
We’re on the up and top 10 is definitely within our capabilities this season.
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Just taking the West Ham game as an example of that ‘swagger’ we went behind early, but once they settled down, to me there was a noticeable switch in the balance of play. West Ham showed us a lot of respect I thought and you kind of just knew we’d score. There was an inevitability about it.
Grealish gets a lot of credit for his work in tight spaces, quite rightly. But some of the passes to put players through, perfectly timed, weighted and accurate were something I don’t think I’ve ever seen at Villa before. Not big ones, but over 6-10 yards to get players in.
Similarly after the second goal which I missed, west ham just seemed to assume we’d try and play through them, which we did and try and sit back a bit. How long is it since we’ve seen Villa play with this level of quality and confidence in the top flight. Even in injury time with 5 mins left on the clock before the VAR debacle the belief was there, they were striking it around unhurried instead of lumping it forward. Bit more composure at the back and in the opposition box and this team will win many more games than it loses. 1 or 2 signings in Jan and pray god no bad injuries and it’s game on for a Euro spot.
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I love watching the style developing. Even in the last few minutes last night we weren’t just pumping it long. As frustrating as we are at times I would rather watch us play like we do and lose the odd tight game than be subjected to the eye bleeding dinosaur football that Moyes and Bruce serve up week in week out.
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Agree with all that's been said, pretty much.
One thing that the commentator said last night chimed for me: he said that Moyes had been keen to add height and ruggedness into the WetSpam side: we really could do with a bit of that in our midfield, because I think sometimes we seem lightweight.
That said, I thought Luiz was excellent last night; McGinn considerably less so.
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The big difference for me this season is whenever we go a goal behind, I believe that we can come back. So do the players.
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I really hope we add at least a couple of very good additions to the side in January. We've been quite lucky with injuries so far, but we're one or two away from being in difficulty, as we had no central defenders or strikers on the bench last night. We've got players such as McGinn and Mings who are struggling for form as well, but with no real alternatives to either give them a break, or the kick up the arse they need.
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Sorry banging on about grealish, but there was one shot of him where he was out wide 3 players on him where he just kind of shimmied and took off towards the by-line and the west ham players were just looking at each other obviously thinking what the fk just happened then?
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The worry is that in 1991-92 and also 1979-80, we were on an upward trajectory, whereas we're still suffering now from a decade of failure. Therefore every win is seen as a blip and every defeat a return to the norm.
Guilty! Even now, I can't bring myself to trust Villa to give me a relatively stress-free season, I am half expecting a massive losing streak to come along and a relegation battle to go along with it. Despite all the evidence I have seen with my own eyes this season.
Even before the misery of the last 10 years, shooting ourselves in the foot was somewhat of a Villa speciality.
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The other thing about this squad is that for the first time in many years, I actually like most of our players and staff.
- We have senior pros like Elmo, McGinn, Jack, Barkley and Mings instead of Lescott, Gabby, Lansbury (in the squad at least!) and Richards taking the piss.
- Mings, whatever your thoughts about him as a player, as a bloke is top notch.
- Trez, who while limited as a player, can't be faulted for effort. He made me chuckle tonight whien he was standing dripping with blood, clearly a bit out of it, seemingly arguing that he shouldn't be going off. 100% effort.
- Jack, from our academy to the country's new great hope, and still seems proper grounded with all he does for local charities.
- Deano, from helping his old man as a kid at the ground to managing us
- Hungry, talented young players getting better and better like Konsa, Luiz and Cash
- Some exciting prospects in the youths like Ramsey and Barry, hopefully who will get some gametime this year.
- Martinez - the best keeper we've had in years. As much as I like Heaton and even Steer, Martinez just seems to be that one step up. And about six steps up from Nyland.
A couple of signings in January to bump the likes of Hourihane and El Ghazi from the bench and challenge the likes of Trez and Targett for a first team spot, and we have every chance of a top 10 spot. Who would possibly have thought that three games before the end of last season?
As Paulie said, it's certainly not boring.
I agree with all of this; one thing I've found is that I feel as though I have a connection with this team that I haven't felt for years. Anything could happen this season and probably will - I feel immensely proud of the team and the individuals within. Someone should tell the trophy room staff to make a bit more space on a shelf, we've got silverware coming.
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I agree 100% pauliewalnuts.
Despite recent results we are playing some of the best football in the whole league. It is not going unnoticed by commentators, pundits, media and many other clubs supporters.
We have rich owners with vision, top management team, quality players throughout, youthful energy with willingness to learn, attacking intent and 40,000 plus supporters waiting in the wings. A recipe for success. The future is bright, the future is Aston Villa.
A work in progress that is progressing very nicely.
:)
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I agree 100% pauliewalnuts.
Despite recent results we are playing some of the best football in the whole league. It is not going unnoticed by commentators, pundits, media and many other clubs supporters.
We have rich owners with vision, top management team, quality players throughout, youthful energy with willingness to learn, attacking intent and 40,000 plus supporters waiting in the wings. A recipe for success. The future is bright, the future is Aston Villa.
A work in progress that is progressing very nicely.
:)
But take Grealish out of that team and what are you left with?
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I don’t think Luis is really underrated as such. But he doesn’t really get the credit some of the other players get. I know it sounds maybe a bit contradictory to say that, but he just seems to get on with it, do his job. Solid 7/10 most weeks and fly under the radar a bit. Will be a big loss if City decide they need him back.
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I agree 100% pauliewalnuts.
Despite recent results we are playing some of the best football in the whole league. It is not going unnoticed by commentators, pundits, media and many other clubs supporters.
We have rich owners with vision, top management team, quality players throughout, youthful energy with willingness to learn, attacking intent and 40,000 plus supporters waiting in the wings. A recipe for success. The future is bright, the future is Aston Villa.
A work in progress that is progressing very nicely.
:)
But take Grealish out of that team and what are you left with?
The Argentinian international goalkeeper, Englands future international center back partnership, two young full backs with tonnes of potential, Scotlands top international player in midfield alongside a Brazilian international and also Barkley producing the goods. Irelands best midfielder as back up. A prolific young forward (with Brazilian international as back up) alongside a former Champions league/Chelsea player who has just arrived. Throw in Trezequet, who will be a massive asset when he finds his shooting boots. Need I go on, we are far, far from a one man team. :)
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I agree 100% pauliewalnuts.
Despite recent results we are playing some of the best football in the whole league. It is not going unnoticed by commentators, pundits, media and many other clubs supporters.
We have rich owners with vision, top management team, quality players throughout, youthful energy with willingness to learn, attacking intent and 40,000 plus supporters waiting in the wings. A recipe for success. The future is bright, the future is Aston Villa.
A work in progress that is progressing very nicely.
:)
But take Grealish out of that team and what are you left with?
The Argentinian international goalkeeper, Englands future international center back partnership, two full backs with tonnes of potential, Scotlands top international player in midfield alongside a Brazilian international and also Barkley producing the goods. Irelands best midfielder as back up. A prolific young forward (with Brazilian international as back up) alongside a former Champions league/Chelsea player who has just arrived. Throw in Trezequet, who will be a massive asset when he finds his shooting boots. Need I go on, we are far, far from a one man team. :)
Plus the 80-100m it would take for Grealish to not be in that team to spend on strengthening it .
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I think Heaton will be making a strong claim for the first team spot when he's back to full fitness.
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There is something about us this season that makes me feel we may, just may be on the verge of something really, really good.
That's exactly how I felt last night. I know we lost and everything, but even when it was 91 minutes on the clock, I was still thinking "we could win this ...". It's just the way we're playing at the moment - it might not always come off, but there's just that feeling that we're able to not just beat other sides, but absolutely annihilate them.
At the moment it feels like it's a bit 50:50, maybe even 40:60 as to whether it'll click or not ... but I think those odds will start moving in our favour as the season goes on, and even more so if/when we're able to strengthen a bit further.
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I think Heaton will be making a strong claim for the first team spot when he's back to full fitness.
Really? Other than spilling one against Fulham, Martinez has done nothing wrong. I can't think of a goal we've conceded that he could do anything about. He's also better with his feet than Heaton.
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As others have said, the big difference for me is we are going toe-to-toe with teams now, and often coming out on top, even if the final score doesn't reflect that. Barring the Leeds game, I've been pretty happy with all the performances this season. Even last night, sickening as it is to lose two goals to their only shots on target, playing the way we did that's a game we win 8 times out of 10.
Compare that to last season, when it was a struggle to pull any positives out of most of our defeats.
But most of all, I actually ENJOY watching us play this season. There is no feeling in my gut that we're going to let ourselves down, I'm confident when we're playing the ball around, and I'm excited when ball gets to our forwards. It's been a while since I felt that way watching us play week in week out.
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I think Heaton will be making a strong claim for the first team spot when he's back to full fitness.
Really? Other than spilling one against Fulham, Martinez has done nothing wrong. I can't think of a goal we've conceded that he could do anything about. He's also better with his feet than Heaton.
What has Heaton done wrong barring being injured? He's a better shot stopper than Martinez.
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The Argentinian international goalkeeper, Englands future international center back partnership, two young full backs with tonnes of potential, Scotlands top international player in midfield alongside a Brazilian international and also Barkley producing the goods. Irelands best midfielder as back up. A prolific young forward (with Brazilian international as back up) alongside a former Champions league/Chelsea player who has just arrived. Throw in Trezequet, who will be a massive asset when he finds his shooting boots. Need I go on, we are far, far from a one man team. :)
If Konsa and Mings are England's future centre-back pairing, then I expect the national team to concede lots of sloppy goals.
Who is the second full-back ? Cash is promising, but Targett is painfully shit.
Scotland and Ireland are both awful international teams, having their best midfielders isn't a sign of much.
From last nights starting XI - Martinez, Cash, Konsa, Luiz, Grealish and Watkins would be keepers for me.
Targett (see above), Mings (good leader, too many mistakes though), McGinn (although he is occasionally pretty good I don't think he is PL class particularly), Trez (tries hard, always smiling, but not good enough to start), Hourihane (a Dave Woodhall said in his article, a solid 6/10 player, but 6/10 sees you getting humped by all but the worst teams in the league). All these can/should be consigned to the bench as soon as possible.
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The whole club is undeniably going places and while I love that, for some reason it's making defeats harder to take. I'm used to us being crap and accepting defeats as par for the course. Now that we're actually good, I'm either absolutely gutted or really pissed off after defeats. I need to figure out how to accept losses better.
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Why is it fucking stupid? We're playing exciting football on a consistent basis. After a decade of dreck, it's great to be beck.
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I agree that things look really positive at the moment and we have a team that at their best are thrilling to watch. For me though I have got so used to us finding ways to fuck up over the past decade that I’m just waiting for things to go wrong. I’m expecting to wake up one day to headlines saying both our owners have covid, Dean Smith has retired and Jack is signing for Barcelona.
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Yes Chris, I know exactly where you are coming from. Fucking things up is in our DNA. The only way out of it is to have much better players.
We've improved a lot for sure but Jack apart I feel no swagger.
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It strikes me that our players, team and squad either have to be top six or else they're shite. There's nothing in between when in reality most of the players we should get rid of are perfectly capable of mid-table and that in itself would represent a massive improvement. In January we could do with another central defender and a striker if Wesley's not back but everything else seems fine.
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Why is it fucking stupid? We're playing exciting football on a consistent basis. After a decade of dreck, it's great to be beck.
It’s not stupid and certainly not fucking stupid.
Having watched Villa achieve nothing positive in so many games over so many years we’re making progress.
Some people will NEVER possess patience or recognize progress.
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if we won last night we'd be top six. We should have won even with the players we had playing last night. Our propensity for making mistakes at the back or up top is well ingrained. I know all teams make mistakes we just make more and more often. I will believe we will be getting towards some form of a swagger as a team when we actually can play the ball out from a goal kick rather than pretending to as we did.
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Agree, it is exciting and when at it we look pretty decent, quick, exciting etc. Worry is squad depth, Cash will hit 5 yellows soon, we are still too dependent on Jack, not much on the bench. Good first 11 but average after that.
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Someone should write a book about that. Dave.
As I've said many times before, there's nothing more than can be written on the subject. It's been done to death.
Lerner and Xia? (wink)
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We'll finish top half I reckon.
Last year Sheffield United ended up 9th on 54 points and I reckon we're capable of that as long as we can back to winning 2-3 games before new year. Then it's a case of just playing out similar points haul second half of the season hopefully with 2-3 more added in January.
Completely different scenario to last January when we were established in relegation zone so I reckon we can get another Barkley type player in on loan at least upfront and hopefully add another CB.
Small steps but it's important to remember we haven't finished in top half of premier league since May 2011 so that would be a pretty good achievement this year.
Top 7 we're too inconsistant for but Everton are probably seen as good bets for that and they're in exactly the same form as us, four defeats out of last 5.
Leicester also lost at home to Fulham so it's just going to be one of those seasons with odd results particularly for home teams.
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One thing that strikes me is that the general level of the Premier League is getting higher all the time. Mid-table is associated with mediocrity as a footballing cliché and in certain cases (Newcastle, Burnley) warranted. But generally speaking, teams not part of the "top six" like Villa, Everton, West Ham, Leeds, Southampton; all play exciting, front-foot football or at least try to (apart from WHam last night). Inconsistency comes with having players that are not always on it but there is far less grinding out results these days.
We're incredibly comfortable with the ball at our feet across the team, we play out from the back as a matter of course. Add in the empty stadiums and it's like watching a bunch of skilful mates playing in a park with much of the football being played on the ground and quickly into feet. I'd rake this approach over the old MON counter-attacks and set-pieces strategy of playing even if it means we get turned over a bit more. We don't draw anymore! Under O'Neill, a point was often more likely than not at home.
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We should be looking to finish this season in the top 8.
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Our points per game ratio is very healthy a quarter of the way into the season. Bit disconcerting that I don't think any of our defeats in the last few games have been against top sides. Doesn't matter as much when we've picked up unexpected wins as well but it would be great to go unbeaten over the next five matches which are easier on paper. Two wins minimum for me. That would put us over 20 points well before half way point and very strongly placed.
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We should be looking to finish this season in the top 8.
Agreed. As we have said for years the quality outside the top 6 is rubbish. So galling on the recent 4 defeats.
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The amount of times I stop during the week well maybe the month and think one of our owners is going to sell us or walk away or something happens to them is too many for comfort or sanity. Likewise, every single game I am thinking Jack is going to get a serious injury. I wince everytime he gets fouled and doesn't dive. And, does anyone still have this sick feeling when the opposition are going forward? That has been ingrained for a lot of years. It is hard to shake.
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Some people will NEVER possess patience or recognize progress.
Why don't you read the original post before whining on about this. It was full of positivity and recognising of progress. The stupid bit was the eternal optimism of thinking we might be on the verge of something big.
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Our points per game ratio is very healthy a quarter of the way into the season. Bit disconcerting that I don't think any of our defeats in the last few games have been against top sides.
Think you need to look at the wider context of how insanely unpredictable this season has been so far.
Stuff like Fulham beating Leicester last night, for example. So many unforeseen results around. I don't know if it's been the empty grounds and altogether weird atmosphere around at the moment but it's been fascinating to watch.
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We should be looking to finish this season in the top 8.
Agreed. As we have said for years the quality outside the top 6 is rubbish.
It's not though. Leeds, Leicester, Everton, Southampton and West Ham are all as good as us on their day. 10th would be a decent achievement.
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We should be looking to finish this season in the top 8.
Agreed. As we have said for years the quality outside the top 6 is rubbish.
It's not though. Leeds, Leicester, Everton, Southampton and West Ham are all as good as us on their day. 10th would be a decent achievement.
We should be looking to finish above likes of Palace and Newcastle at this point, that would get us to about 12th in league. Then it's a case of doing better than a couple of West Ham, Southampton etc to get top half.
Everton looked good earlier this season but they're on an identical run to us currently, lost 4 out of last 5 which includes defeats to Leeds and Southampton so going by that they aren't that much better despite another summer of huge investment.
Forgot about Arsenal aswell. They're the one traditional top 6 team I think we have a very realistic chance of finishing above this season given how mediocre they've looked so far and we match up pretty well v them so could beat them at VP again.
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A pleasing thing about last night's game was the way we moved the ball around. We look like a decent team now, whereas last season was a bit hurly-burly and random.
As I said earlier, put some physicality into MF alongside Luiz (in fact, allowing Luiz more of a playmaker role) and we'll get and look even better.
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We have got to accept we'll have some infuriatingly bad results and some unexpectedly good ones, we're inconsistent and we're going to remain that way for a while yet.
Not a chance in hell that we get relegated, though, which is already an improvement.
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if we won last night we'd be top six. We should have won even with the players we had playing last night. Our propensity for making mistakes at the back or up top is well ingrained. I know all teams make mistakes we just make more and more often. I will believe we will be getting towards some form of a swagger as a team when we actually can play the ball out from a goal kick rather than pretending to as we did.
Top 4 with a game in hand to take us joint top.
I was disappointed last night, and pissed off with the goals conceded. We could and should have won. Which makes a big difference. We go into every game knowing we could win, which is what hurts. We're not shit, and the players aren't shit either, despite what some would say.
I like what we have and we're only going to get better.
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Not stupid at all. I feel similar. I think it's got a lot to do with the owners. They not only have a stupid amount of wealth, they are clearly ambitious, albeit cautiously so and they seem a lot more savvy than their predecessors. In the later years of the Lerner era and under the clown he sold us to, it felt like the club was rudderless and there was an element of making it up as we went along.
Now the professionalism and gravitas has returned, both on and off the pitch, and everything seems much more reassuring, more worthy of an old and stately club. It feels like Villa is meant to feel.
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I always think third Division to league champions, European champions and back to the second Division in fifteen or so years is one of the most insane journeys in English football.
Insane journeys #2 . Northampton Town. 1960/61 Division Four, 1965/66 Division One, 1969/70 Division Four.
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Blimey! Must have been exciting to be a cobbler in the 60's.
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Go and win the FA Cup please.
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The big difference for me this season is whenever we go a goal behind, I believe that we can come back. So do the players.
Not borne out by results - We've lost every game in which we have conceded first.
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True but apart from Leeds, the heads haven't gone down - we played WHam off the park last night and scored three against Southampton.
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The end result is the same though. If you give away two or three easy goals a game as we have been doing, chances are you'll lose.
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It's understandable given the last 10 years that some fans are wary when we don't win games like Monday where we were clearly the better team, but this is a very different team. I would much rather be in our position where we look threatening in every game and lose due to unforced errors or bad luck than someone like Newcastle, where they constantly look second best but somehow just about manage to scrape enough results to stay safe. This is a young team, and eventually those errors will be eliminated - once that happens, we will be a real force.
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The whole club is undeniably going places and while I love that, for some reason it's making defeats harder to take. I'm used to us being crap and accepting defeats as par for the course. Now that we're actually good, I'm either absolutely gutted or really pissed off after defeats. I need to figure out how to accept losses better.
The same here. In my head...Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal were nice surprises. Leeds, Brighton, Southampton, West Ham; we should be beating these minnows.
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Keeping Grealish is fundemental t any ambition we have.
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The whole club is undeniably going places and while I love that, for some reason it's making defeats harder to take. I'm used to us being crap and accepting defeats as par for the course. Now that we're actually good, I'm either absolutely gutted or really pissed off after defeats. I need to figure out how to accept losses better.
The same here. In my head...Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal were nice surprises. Leeds, Brighton, Southampton, West Ham; we should be beating these minnows.
Winning those " winnable" games ( see above) would be a nice start......to me losing at home to Brighton , Soton and Leeds isn't acceptable no matter how "great" the football is
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The whole club is undeniably going places and while I love that, for some reason it's making defeats harder to take. I'm used to us being crap and accepting defeats as par for the course. Now that we're actually good, I'm either absolutely gutted or really pissed off after defeats. I need to figure out how to accept losses better.
The same here. In my head...Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal were nice surprises. Leeds, Brighton, Southampton, West Ham; we should be beating these minnows.
Winning those " winnable" games ( see above) would be a nice start......to me losing at home to Brighton , Soton and Leeds isn't acceptable no matter how "great" the football is
They were indeed unacceptable and points wise they cancelled out our excellent early start to the season.
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Southampton look a pretty good side to me in fairness.
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And Leeds will never better this season their performance at Villa Park.
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I have said previously, if we can finish 12th/13th then that will be staggering progress for a club that finished 5th in the championship 2 years ago.
I’m still really angry about the West Ham game though and the 4 defeats in 5.
With a big gap to our next game, which is tough one, we could find ourselves in the bottom half of the table trying to claw our way back up.
There is a danger that our wonderful start to the season could be wasted because of poor results in the last 5 games.
All that being said, I completely agree with the sentiments that we are ‘on the up’ and are a far more likeable team than in our recent history.
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We are on the up but I still find us really naive in our approach to some games and how open we are. Especially against Leeds and Southampton. Defensively we aren't switched on enough and are poor at set pieces. I'm not convinced by the Konsa and Mings partnership and I'd still like to see a bigger, stronger screening midfielder who can pass a ball but help out more defending corners and free kicks. In short, we are better than last season by far but there's a lot of room for improvement and there will need to be tough decisions made if we are to progress, replacing players that we like and find amiable but aren't quite as good as made out.
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We have into the last few games with real enthusiasm beleiving we were back and heading in the right direction then came Brighton and West Ham.
Both games we were the better team, both games we lost. We did this at the begining of last season (threw away points), the difference then was hope we would be comfortably safe, this season we were thinking after the earlier results we were we might threaten the top 6. But alas a combination of naivety, poor finishing and some piss poor defending and we are starting to loook down not up at the League table.
Without a change in the way we defend, we will achieve fuck all and jeapordise the opportunity we have to progress (and losing our best player). Sadly playing good football for long periods of matches is not enough.
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We are very much a work in progress. We are the epitome of the ‘win of few lose a few’ side with huge potential but no consistency. It’s bloody frustrating but we play good football and anyone who has seen us this season knows we are capable of dishing out some real pastings. We look exciting going forward, we are dynamic in midfield but defensively we still have some improvement to make. But in comparison to last season we are progressing with better players and more confidence.
Of all the comparisons mine would be to Little’s first full season. Made some astute signings that at the time still had plenty to prove and we gelled, got some big scalps early on and ended up finishing 4th from memory playing great football. We might not quite get there but we are progressing in the top tier there’s no doubt about that for the first time in over a decade. I’ll have some of that.
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We have 15 points from 9 games, if that rate was maintained ( I knows it's an if ) that would put us on target for 63/64 points. We have only bettered 64 points twice in the top division in the last 33 seasons. A 60-64 points tally puts you on target for about a 6th place finish.
We have conceded 13 goals in those games in what is to date an unusually high scoring season throughout the division, that gives us the 8th best goals against ratio in the division.
We have gained most of these points in unexpected places and then lost where we should have picked up. If it had been the other way round I suppose we would be talking about how there was improvement but we still couldn't give the best sides a game.
Some may be worried that we have lost 4 out the last 5 after such a great start. However, I do not think it's a case of us now being found out. With the exception of the Leeds game and the first half of Southampton we have fully competed and shown true quality.
After 54 years I reckon I can spot a half decent Villa side taking shape. In terms of signing young proven players who will get better it feels like the Brian Little era. In terms of exciting football it feels like Saunders circa 76/77.
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I have said previously, if we can finish 12th/13th then that will be staggering progress for a club that finished 5th in the championship 2 years ago.
I’m still really angry about the West Ham game though and the 4 defeats in 5.
With a big gap to our next game, which is tough one, we could find ourselves in the bottom half of the table trying to claw our way back up.
There is a danger that our wonderful start to the season could be wasted because of poor results in the last 5 games.
All that being said, I completely agree with the sentiments that we are ‘on the up’ and are a far more likeable team than in our recent history.
Staggering progress? Not sure about that. Return season surviving on the last day kinda acceptable, second season should show a marked improvement and thankfully is doing so. Our problem now isn't that we're shit, just that we're inconsistent with results.
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The title of this thread needs changing!
Its not stupid at all!!
Totally onto something as nearing if not being the best performing team in the league.
Certainly have the best keeper Martinez and in Jack Grealish one of the best players and best English midfielder.
We have the best Irish and Scottish midfielders.Ollie Watkins a super striker and some outstanding supporting cast in attacking players.
And a super team spirit!
With the best English coach in the country and some of the most ambitious and most wealthy owners of any football club.
Continue an unbeaten run vs Chelsea, Man Utd , Spurs and Everton thevthread title needs to be changed from stupid to genius and wise!
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The whole club is undeniably going places and while I love that, for some reason it's making defeats harder to take. I'm used to us being crap and accepting defeats as par for the course. Now that we're actually good, I'm either absolutely gutted or really pissed off after defeats. I need to figure out how to accept losses better.
The same here. In my head...Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal were nice surprises. Leeds, Brighton, Southampton, West Ham; we should be beating these minnows.
Winning those " winnable" games ( see above) would be a nice start......to me losing at home to Brighton , Soton and Leeds isn't acceptable no matter how "great" the football is
Acceptable yet?
From how we'd played generally this season it's been top 8 standard for me. Of course we need to keep everyone fit and try to add 1-2 more of decent quality next month but I'd be pretty disappointed if we finished significantly below that now.
Southampton is sort of standard that will probably finish 8th and they've dipped in last few games so don't see any reason why it's impossible to above them.
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Getting there eh ? :)
Yesterday showed us that the manager and the team are learning and are now showing signs of professionalism that confident and successful sides display - I still find dropping points to Burnley, Brighton et al disappointing but I am demanding in my expectations
A tough few games looming .....what I wouldn't give for a win against Newton Heath
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...what I wouldn't give for a win against Newton Heath
That thrashing of Liverpool was cathartic for me. Since I was a kid I've been batting our corner against the odds through the 80s, 90s, 2000s then steadily slinking away for the last ten years.
Smashing those bastards felt better than anything and there's one Liverpool 'friend' that I probably won't speak to again after I called him a c**t for not answering texts.
Manchester? Oh yes.