Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Drummond on November 24, 2020, 09:39:47 AM
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55038972
Aston Villa fans were reported for more alleged hate crimes than any team last season, according to Home Office data.
Results seen by the Press Association under a Freedom of Information request showed Villa fans reported 13 times.
Wolves, Leeds and Tottenham fans were the subject of 10 reports each, while Chelsea fans were reported nine times.
The reports came to the UK Football Policing Unit from either the Football Association or anti-discrimination body Kick It Out.
A number of the reports could not definitively be assigned to a team, so do not feature in the club-by-club data.
Of Villa's 13 incidents, seven related to race, five related to sexual orientation and one to religion.
The 319 hate crimes reported last season were connected to 287 of the 2,663 matches in England and Wales.
The Freedom of Information request found only four reports of hate crime were made relating to matches played when the professional game resumed in June and July.
Online incidents were included in the data for the first time.
In September, Kick It Out chair Sanjay Bhandari said: "We all need to do more and we all need to take a stand against discrimination.
"Kick It Out will play its part with campaigning, education and talent programmes that diversify the face of football. But this is everyone's responsibility."
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Well that Areshole kid on Twitter accounts for one of those if they are looking online for reports now.
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It’s an interesting dilemma, because it could mean that our fans are worse committing offences, or it could be that we are better at not putting up with it & reporting it.
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I'm hoping it's the latter. Either way, it's a stain on our club that i hope we can stamp out.
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Absolutely amfy.
The numbers aren't massive, but you could spin the statistics and make out we're 30% worse than the next club or state it was 'only' 13.
It's saddening either way.
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I know fans of other clubs would want to make out it makes us a set of ’ racist’ fans or whatever, but one is probably me reporting the bloke next to me for hissing like the gas chambers & chanting ‘yid’ at Spurs fans.
That was far more likely to be the only place it was reported than the only place it happened. Do we think it is more likely that there were less than 13 instances of anti-Semitic abuse at West Ham (for example because I have really seen them in action on that score) or that people there are more likely to just think it’s something you just need to let go & not make a fuss?
If statistics can be used to make you look bad like this it does make you feel like not reporting it - although of course reporting is the right thing to do.
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This is very depressing and a bit surprising. Can't say I've encountered much if any of this kind of thing on my travels with the Villa. If anything Villa fans are usually very quick to shut down any such crap. Let's hope it's an anomaly and when we do get back into grounds be extra vigilant. The good name of Aston Villa is depending on us.
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One incident is one incident too many, but 13 cases out of however many hundred thousand fans went to games over the course of the season doesn't really deserve that headline in my opinion.
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The numbers are so incredibly low there is huge room for sample distortion. The point is that the real numbers of actual incidents is likely to be much higher sadly and this report is extremely unlikely to reflect the most common perpetrators.
But some will relish it as an opportunity to besmirch our name. Fuckem.
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I've looked at the stats, and we had zero arrests for racist incidents last season. By comparison, Man City had 6 arrests, Cardiff 5, Stoke 3 and Burnley 2. Without downplaying the seriousness of reported incidents, shouldn't actual arrests be deemed to be a bit more serious? We've had two arrests for hate crimes in the last 6 years, lower than a lot of teams.
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The whole thing gets me down.
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We’ve got quite a crowd of right-wing followers.
Kind of my old crowd really, radicalised by Brexit. I avoid them where possible.
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It’s a saddening and disappointing stain on our club.
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I've looked at the stats, and we had zero arrests for racist incidents last season. By comparison, Man City had 6 arrests, Cardiff 5, Stoke 3 and Burnley 2. Without downplaying the seriousness of reported incidents, shouldn't actual arrests be deemed to be a bit more serious? We've had two arrests for hate crimes in the last 6 years, lower than a lot of teams.
That’s interesting to know. I was also one of many around me who reported to the club a racist comment by an apparent repeat offender (I actually only heard the defence of it, and then to contradict himself to me directly denying he’d said it, so couldn’t myself be witness for WMP, whereas I believed someone else was going to). Important thing was club seemed v well on top of it.
The comment itself would have probably been let go in the past, I’ve not reported worse many years back as it wasn’t even clear it was possible to do so I guess, though have challenged fans before direct (much to my mates concern!).
So I’d echo that maybe we’ve lowered our reporting threshold. Thankfully. Maybe worth a written piece for a national newspaper to turn this into a positive? Maybe worth a tweet to @RWhitehead61 and our Tyrone?
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Seems rather low to me overall. I'm not sure how they work out the clubs "responsible" after reading that. Are they saying they couldn't pick out who certain people supported on say twitter or facebook because unless you have it in your profile I would say that goes for lots of people. You could maybe say they lived in Birmingham but beyond that it wouldn't be hard for say a Birmingham based ManU fan to negatively comment on a Liverpool vs Villa game. Unless i'm reading it wrong and all these cases were investigated by the police rather than just handed to the police by the FA and kick-it-out. I'd imagine the unconnected to a club incidents would be far far larger so weren't they investigated?
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I guess the prick who made that disgusting tweet to Zaha the morning we played them is on this list.
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The prick was a kid. Doesn’t make it any less wrong, but I’d hazard a guess that his parents might be the pricks and the kid himself needs re-educating.
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Sad and a stain on the club regardless of numbers.
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It says that Villa fans are the least likely to put up with racist and anti Semitic crap, and where are the Top Six’s fans on this?
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Very embarrassing. I hope the club take some positive And firm steps here.
As someone else stated we should be encouraged to report these instances and getting beaten up afterwards seems churlish. Maybe a halfway house should be introduced where it is reported to the club rather than police so the club can proactively deal with it.
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Hopefully the figures mean that it's reported / called out more often rather than it's more prevalent. Either way, though, it's an intolerable stain on the club.
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It’s the opposite of a stain, it’s a Blot-free escutcheon.
Where are they, these entitled superfans of Sky sides? (Or lower in the League.)
Let them show they have anything like the attested inclusive boundaries of Villa fans.
Waiting.
As m’learned friend Risso pointed out earlier, they have the arrests, so they must be in the ground, wherever it is. Just not confronted or reported.
Show us yer Stats! And then be prepared to be very quiet.
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Club statement
A request for hate crime statistics from the 2019-20 season from the Home Office has been published and shows Aston Villa supporters have been reported on 13 occasions.
Aston Villa have promoted the West Midlands Police reporting process specifically set up for hate crime and work closely with Kick It Out to challenge discrimination of all forms.
The club’s Equality and Diversity inclusion initiative, which has been named All In, celebrates and engages with diverse supporters groups.
CEO Christian Purslow said: “I firmly believe that to fix serious problems properly you have to face up to them, measure them and call them out. Reporting all instances of hate crime is the best way to root it out and be able to show zero tolerance to perpetrators.
“We have encouraged all members of the Aston Villa family, fans and employees alike, to report any instances whether in our stadium or on social media channels to provide the best possible help for the authorities.
“This summer the collaboration between the club and West Midlands Police’s Football Unit resulted in the arrest of a perpetrator within hours of some deeply offensive posts on social media.
“Our Club’s commitment to promoting the reporting of all instances of hate crime will not cease and this report shows it is working. This work will go on until the stain of hate crime is removed from any link whatsoever to our great national sport and our proud Club.”
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To anybody in the media or FA reading this, I would say, shame on the big clubs with no numbers at all.
Ask, why not?
Nobody will ever report hate speech at a match if it is a stick to beat their club with.
Celebrate the honesty and integrity and, a message for all fans, DMI.
Dob eM In.
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Some of our away supporters are appalling.
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Some of our away supporters are appalling.
They really are. More than a few absolute bell ends.
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DMI.
Good club statement, TV, thanks for posting.
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How many times did Greg Clarke visit Villa Park last year?
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I've looked at the stats, and we had zero arrests for racist incidents last season. By comparison, Man City had 6 arrests, Cardiff 5, Stoke 3 and Burnley 2. Without downplaying the seriousness of reported incidents, shouldn't actual arrests be deemed to be a bit more serious? We've had two arrests for hate crimes in the last 6 years, lower than a lot of teams.
Well tell that to whoever asked for the FOI on reported incidents only and then released it to the Press Association.
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It's long been a bone of contention that football crime figures include incidents and arrests rather than convictions.
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Some of our away supporters are appalling.
They really are. More than a few absolute bell ends.
Very much so.
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Having said that, I can't say that I remember hearing any racism from them. It's more just acting like twats, chucking beer around and smashing things up in the away concourses.
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Average age and IQ of about 17 but yeah, being next to them at away games is a chore (GB English)/dose (Hiberno English)/drag (Amerrigan).
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Can certainly remember a number of our fans being racist bell ends away at Bradford in the League Cup Semi Final.
Ended up arguing with one bloke and he got chucked out.
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I think it needs to be seen in perspective. 13 incidents over 38 games involving hundreds of thousands of fans is negligible. Yes it’s depressing it still goes on, but it seems the message is getting through to the majority. You’re always going to get the odd dickhead at any club, and that’s all this is going by the numbers. Fair play to the people who call out the offenders and can be bothered to report it. I’ve called out racism a couple of times at the pub here in Brisbane and it definitely takes a bit of (Dutch) courage. Not so sure I’d do it when sober.
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Some of our away supporters are appalling.
They really are. More than a few absolute bell ends.
Very much so.
(https://i.imgur.com/0YrNBCY.png)
Most of these reports are at home.
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i reported a guy who sits behind me - when we played Liverpool at home last season - he kept saying "scouse bastards", I received a phone call from the club informing me that they had sent him a letter about his use of words
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You reported him for that?
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i reported a guy who sits behind me - when we played Liverpool at home last season - he kept saying "scouse bastards", I received a phone call from the club informing me that they had sent him a letter about his use of words
I've always called them scouse bastards as they have always called me a brummie cnut.
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Is this from incidents reported by all fans in the ground or just opposition?
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Is this from incidents reported by all fans in the ground or just opposition?
I'm unsure as to who did the flagging and reporting. The article says, "The reports came to the UK Football Policing Unit from either the Football Association or anti-discrimination body Kick It Out." Who'd report cases to these two bodies? Would complaints we bring to the Villa's attention be then passed on to either of these bodies, and then to the police?
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Is this from incidents reported by all fans in the ground or just opposition?
I'm unsure as to who did the flagging and reporting. The article says, "The reports came to the UK Football Policing Unit from either the Football Association or anti-discrimination body Kick It Out." Who'd report cases to these two bodies? Would complaints we bring to the Villa's attention be then passed on to either of these bodies, and then to the police?
From The Telegraph:
"The reports came to the UK Football Policing Unit from either the Football Association or anti-discrimination body Kick It Out.
The FOI offers some insight as to when and where the reports were made, although it does not clarify whether clubs reported their own fans on any or every occasion."
So not very clear.
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The Bournemouth one was probably my wife abusing me for the man love I have for all the Villa players :D.
Seriously though, in this day and age you would think people would know better.
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You reported him for that?
Yeh scouse is pretty insensitive.
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Seriously sid1964?
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i reported a guy who sits behind me - when we played Liverpool at home last season - he kept saying "scouse bastards", I received a phone call from the club informing me that they had sent him a letter about his use of words
Which word was it you think is offensive? I lived in Liverpool for years and still spend a lot of time there. No-one I know would object to being called Scouse.
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A few seasons ago I was walking up to villa park as we approached kick off, we going towards the north stand lower from the witton round about.
We got to the gates on witton lane opposite where the away fans car park is and there was someone selling the heroes and villains fanzine. I was with some punjabi villa lads nothing to do with the 'Punjabi Villains ' group just some punjabi brummie lads who all follow villa as mates.
One of the punjabi lads asked the fanzine seller is 'that the programme ' fanzine seller said 'no its better it's the fanzine ' one of the punjabi lads said 'it looks shit' fanzine seller said' come to villa park again ' to imply these lads have never been to villa park before. These lads drink in social and witton arms they are well integrated with other working class lads , they love villa and some been going since the 80s.
Did the the fanzine seller think they have never been to villa park cos they punjabi/brown skinned or cos one said the fanzine is shit?
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Why on earth would you sign up again just to be banned? Is your life really THAT sad that you have nothing better to do?
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Are you suggesting that the poster might be making things up?
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Are you suggesting that the poster might be making things up?
The poster might not be exactly telling the whole truth. The seller in that spot was probably me, and I think I might remember someone saying 'That looks shit". I never said that it was better than the programme - cheaper and with less pictures but nothing so basic as better. I also think that such a regular visitor to Villa Park as the poster implies would know what had and had not been sold on that corner for decades.
I also wonder what makes someone join the H&V forum and then tell a spurious tale about a friend calling the H&V fanzine "shit".
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I think there ar those who still think that any attention is better than no attention.
I may have said it was better one ine or more occasions... and qualified it with 'because there are less pictures and more writing'...
Of course this particular story is bullshit.
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After we laughed and said the seller looks like a nonce case. We mix with working class lads not middle class communists.
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I think the come to villa park again comment was made cos he thought they were liverpool, Manu , kabbadi or cricket fans . Some of them lads have fought in the name of Villa.
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Someone's obsession with a fanzine and one of it's sellers is bordering on unhealthy. They need professional help, immediately.
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WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO ME
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Are you suggesting that the poster might be making things up?
The poster might not be exactly telling the whole truth. The seller in that spot was probably me, and I think I might remember someone saying 'That looks shit". I never said that it was better than the programme - cheaper and with less pictures but nothing so basic as better. I also think that such a regular visitor to Villa Park as the poster implies would know what had and had not been sold on that corner for decades.
I also wonder what makes someone join the H&V forum and then tell a spurious tale about a friend calling the H&V fanzine "shit".
Listen Bwana Clart you wanna discuss your 'come to villa park again ' comments.what about the witton arms on a non match day in the evening or sangam restaurant on rocky lane great barr we can go for a chai and somsa. I know loads of ethics
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If they were middle-class it couldn't have been me. Probably Percy.
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If they were middle-class it couldn't have been me. Probably Percy.
Haha. I'd have said it was me but I don't remember wearing a nonce disguise.
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Dave I was being somewhat facetious, I have no idea what is going on accept his mate has turned up and wants to take you out. Somewhere for working class lads obviously.
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After we laughed and said the seller looks like a nonce case. We mix with working class lads not middle class communists.
Those Punjabi Villa fans (not the Punjabi Villans, I may hasten to add) are absolutely vicious.
Why haven't I seen them on some Danny Dyer nawty vomit fest yet? Prob because I don't watch anything with Danny Dyer in it.
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Some of them lads have fought in the name of Villa.
Dear God alive, are you an actual grown adult?
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Fair play, his tedious aliases have done more to build support for Marxism on here than I've managed in thirteen years of trying.
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The usage of fictional friends from ethnic minorities to create an anti-racist persona is vile racism and not remotely amusing. Big respect to the moderators, because I would “out” the bastard and leave them out to dry.
And that’s from me in a hugely great mood.
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I think the come to villa park again comment was made cos he thought they were liverpool, Manu , kabbadi or cricket fans . Some of them lads have fought in the name of Villa.
Someone's been watching Green Street.
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The usage of fictional friends from ethnic minorities to create an anti-racist persona is vile racism and not remotely amusing. Big respect to the moderators, because I would “out” the bastard and leave them out to dry.
And that’s from me in a hugely great mood.
Yes.
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The usage of fictional friends from ethnic minorities to create an anti-racist persona is vile racism and not remotely amusing. Big respect to the moderators, because I would “out” the bastard and leave them out to dry.
And that’s from me in a hugely great mood.
Yes.
Similar to the ‘Ashok from Draksey Drum’ character who used phone Tom Ross on a Friday night. I’m not sure who the bigger ****** was, the racist who phoned in thinking he was funny or Tom Ross for continually allow him on air.
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He's been dead over 20 years now.
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Let's have a bit of respect, please.
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Let's have a bit of respect, please.
Bloody middle-classes trying to control the working man again. ;)
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If they were middle-class it couldn't have been me. Probably Percy.
Could have been. I abuse all wankers who fail miserably at trying to be funny in public at the expense of fanzine sellers just the same, no matter their ethnicity.