Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on November 01, 2020, 01:58:16 PM
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Hopefully we take the positves from that last half hour, and really fucking learn from that first hour.
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Scoring 3 isn’t great if you concede 4.
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Weirdly, overall, I thought we were the better side. Our good half was better than theirs, and we made more actual chances. They scored three absolutely stupid goals though, so that's that.
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Goal for Olly, bit of magic from Jack. Nothing else happened.
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Fair play to us for fighting back from 4-0 down, but we lost the game in the first half.
Onwards and back upwards!
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The intelligence in the first half was pathetic. Southampton done us on set pieces at VP last season and we allowed them to do it again.
When we go behind we lose, its as simple as that.
The one thing I want to see when we're down and out is some fight and desire so fair play for the last half an hour.
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Goal for Olly, bit of magic from Jack. Nothing else happened.
Glad I don't sit next to you
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Glad they made a fist of it second half, hopefully gives us something positive to take away from it. I so nearly didn't put the second half on, and so nearly turned off at 4. Im glad I didn't now as although we lost it feels like there is something there to build on for next week. I think we'll beat Arsenal now. Im not sure why but I do.
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At least we didn't throw in the towel and concede five or six.
Ultimately, we got our shit together too late, but we're back scoring and the performance for the last quarter of the game was pretty good. First half was the very definition of insanity.
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Weird game.
We don’t tend to win if McGinn has a poor game.
I’m worried Cash isn’t good enough.
Jack is still awesome.
Elmo to start next match please.
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Positives
The comeback
Grealish
Watkins scoring
Negatives
The first half
Mcginn Barkley cash Mings
Not learning from our previous mistakes
The reliably awful nbc commentary team pundits and host
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Two post match threads ...This one I think we will make Europe, the other we're going down.
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We’ve got to find our defensive strength as a team again. You can’t concede 3 and 4 in consecutive games and expect get any points. Nice that we clawed back some goals at the end, but not good enough.
McGinn has been atrocious the last two games.
We need to be much much better.
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We played into their hands in the first half and we got battered for it. They have a really good and confident team and an excellent manager. We got battered by letting them play. They switched off a bit in the second after going up 4-0 which allowed us to get back into it. Our three goals shouldn’t mask all that happened before when they truly were up for it. The stats will be deceptive. They were the better side when they needed to be.
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Lost the game in the first half because of a woeful effort, better second half with the Southampton keeper having to make several saves.
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I think the last two seemed like consolation goals
Pity one of the chances from Trex earlier had not gone in.
But we need to sort the midfield out, Barkley was poor, at times SJM and Luis were missing.
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I think Trez was our man of the match. Didn’t give in. Always available. Showed where the goal was even if he had an unerring ability to hit the goalie. McGinn was hopeless.
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Hopefully we take the positves from that last half hour, and really fucking learn from that first hour.
I thought we were the much better side for the whole 2nd half, despite a great finish from Ings. 2 beckhamesque free kicks from Ward-Prowse, and they dominated us in midfield. I thought Barklay, McGinn and Luiz woke up in the second half and like I said we dominated against a very good Southampton side.
If I take anything from this, is that the heads never dropped and we kept creating even at 0-4. We will win more than we lose this season and I still think at top 10, top 8 finish is realistic, which would be massive progress.
Really pleased for Watkins getting a goal as well, although isolated he continues to run the line well and still looks a much better forward by miles compared to what we had last year, that’s 4 in 6.
Oh and despite the inevitable doom and gloom, we win our game in hand, we’d be joint 2nd.
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What the hell has happened to the much improved defence? Terrible.
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Mings was a driving force second half
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At least we salvaged the goal difference a bit, and looked better second half. But we can't keep having these kamikaze 45 minutes. The first half was every bit as bad as Villa at their worst last year.
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At least we didn't throw in the towel and concede five or six.
Ultimately, we got our shit together too late, but we're back scoring and the performance for the last quarter of the game was pretty good. First half was the very definition of insanity.
I agree. I was thinking 6 or 7 after Ings scored.
We played well at 4 nil down, but it's one thing having shots and making the keeper work at that stage as opposed to the first half.
Luiz and Cash were culpable conceding dangerous free kicks instead of letting Walcott or Adams probably miss.
McGinn improved a bit in the second half but he was generally ineffective and Luiz wasn't as influential as he has been.
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I will take the positive that we kept going and got three goals. I know it means nothing as 0 points and two defeats on the bounce. But we didn’t throw the towel in and that is important
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Negatives:
Silly free-kicks gifting them goals
Long and high balls to big opposition
Positives:
Strong fight back
There is a bit of belief out there
We do have some good players even on an off day
Our resident troll was utterly pathetic in his attempts, probably because his first love were playing in the other side.
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Mings was a driving force second half
Yes, he was as good second half as he was dreadful up to 0-4
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We played the first half with the attitude 'there are three teams at the the bottom of the league with only one point, we are safe from relegation.' Terrible attitude.
Much better attitude in the second half.
Our first half attitude cost us this game.
Disappointing. :(
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We played into their hands in the first half and we got battered for it. They have a really good and confident team and an excellent manager. We got battered by letting them play. They switched off a bit in the second after going up 4-0 which allowed us to get back into it. Our three goals shouldn’t mask all that happened before when they truly were up for it. The stats will be deceptive. They were the better side when they needed to be.
Agree with that to an extent, but whether they took their foot of the gas or not, they had lost the momentum and that was down to us playing better as much as them standing back. The games carries on for another 5 mins, we equalise and maybe even win as unlikely as that may have seemed.
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Cash is fine. They sat back so villa did better.
Barkley is the problem. Smith needs to work it out, Mcginn is much more of a threat going forward, but being asked to sit back since Barkley’s arrival,
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We have to respond much better to going behind in games - it’s going to happen. We have to be much more resolute and know when to dig in. We lack game awareness too often.
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Really annoyed about the third goal. We’d already seen what JWP did with the first yet approached the free kick exactly the same. No man on the line, Martinez standing completely to one side and no jump from the wall. Awful, was only slightly harder than a penalty. We go in at ht 0-2 and there’s a chance. Dreadful dithering defending. Stick a man on the line FGS.
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We said last week we need a response from Leeds. Hugely disappointed with how we played first half even if Southampton were ultra clinical in their set pieces.
Think team needs to be mixed up a little bit. We have some good footballers in midfield now but the balance never seems to be right in these type of games so hopefully the manager remembers that for future games as we don't half struggle against manic pressing teams.
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What the hell has happened to the much improved defence? Terrible.
[/quote
I think we are lacking authority in midfield
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Another 10 minutes we could have won the match, but the first half was as bad as anything I can remember from last season. Anyway a lot of positives, which is something I wasn't expecting to say at half time.
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A man on the line for the 2 free kicks and we get something from that game. Massive lesson.
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How can you stop those precision free kicks? Put a man on the post? assign the paul parker role of charger to someone?
We were poor first half but the stats show the direct freekicks were the difference today. Both went in the same top corner. dissapointing.
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If I were Conor I’d be feeling pretty aggrieved at my lack of involvement in the last two games.
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Yay won the second half 3-1 and could have had more. Too little too late but at least we played some decent stuff and salvaged some of our goal difference.
But first half was dreadful. Our self-destructive defending, dreadful decision making (McGinn marking a giant at a set piece? Really?), individual errors, playing to the oppositions' strengths and practically inviting them to score was akin to the pre-covid part of last season. As was the midfield going AWOL again.
Dropping down the table to a more realistic level I feel, but if we are to avoid dropping too far we need to get back to being hard to beat, pronto.
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Such a strange and frustrating game to watch. First half we were so naive and got punished for stupid errors. To give one free kick away was stupid to give two away criminal. Also how can you defend McGinn marking vestergaard. I see when mings scored he beat vestergaard to the ball. We didn’t fold but you wonder had Southampton taken foot off the gas by then.
McGinn and Barkley need to be much much better at the defensive side they were far too soft.
We need to learn and fast as this has been three points thrown away
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Smart captaincy from Jack to give Ollie the pen. He needed that goal, but more generally he needs better support in and around him.
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I said to my son for the second free kick, is there a new rule that you can not have a man on the line ?
Have someone on that left post and it takes it down as an option
Instead they fucking score there !!
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I’d like to see this
Martinez
Cash konsa Mings Engels targett
Barkley luiz Mcginn
Grealish
Watkins
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Score 7 against the champions doesn’t make us top 6, conceding 7 against two very good teams BTW doesn’t make us bottom 6.
We all would have accepted mid table and that’s where we will likely to finish.
Relax.
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I said to my son for the second free kick, is there a new rule that you can not have a man on the line ?
Have someone on that left post and it takes it down as an option
Instead they fucking score there !!
Guess it's up to what Martinez wants. Player on the line brings opposition players into his eyeline infront of him but yeah it likely would've stopped at least one of the goals.
Next time v Southampton we just have to let them run on in occasions rather than taking them down on edge of the box as we saw today what is more likely to lead to goals conceded against them.
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Score 7 against the champions doesn’t make us til 6, conceding 7 against two very good teams BTW doesn’t make us bottom 6.
We all would have accepted mid table and that’s where we will likely to finish.
Relax.
Up the Gers.Right up 'em.
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How can you stop those precision free kicks? Put a man on the post? assign the paul parker role of charger to someone?
The first one was a perfect position for someone as good as Ward-Prowse and was from a stupid challenge by (I think) Luiz who had got the wrong side. The second one should have been too difficult to get up and over a decent wall as it was so close - If Mings had jumped it would probably have hit him smack in the chops, or at least deflected upwards. God knows why he stood rooted to the floor, it went right over him and in. Another self-inflicted, avoidable error.
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Our set pieces are naff aswell, I never feel confident that we will score from a corner or free kick.
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Score 7 against the champions doesn’t make us til 6, conceding 7 against two very good teams BTW doesn’t make us bottom 6.
We all would have accepted mid table and that’s where we will likely to finish.
Relax.
Up the Gers.Right up 'em.
Good grief.
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Our set pieces are naff aswell, I never feel confident that we will score from a corner or free kick.
It's annoying given how good Mings was at them in our championship winning run. His goal was reminder he can still do it if the cross is good enough.
I'd just have Jack taking everything if Hourihane isn't on the pitch, Barkley set pieces were woeful.
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I said to my son for the second free kick, is there a new rule that you can not have a man on the line ?
Have someone on that left post and it takes it down as an option
Instead they fucking score there !!
Guess it's up to what Martinez wants. Player on the line brings opposition players into his eyeline infront of him but yeah it likely would've stopped at least one of the goals.
Next time v Southampton we just have to let them run on in occasions rather than taking them down on edge of the box as we saw today what is more likely to lead to goals conceded against them.
Yes, statistically the chances of them scoring when Luiz committed the foul were probably low and even on the Cash hand ball the likelihood was less.
I almost think that keepers would be better off with no wall sometimes as some shots would be easier to save, but then it's easy to be wise after the event and I know that the wall is still the safer option.
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We need to find a way to get Watkins in the game, 2nd half he came out wide & got involved. He needs to bulk up too.
Midfield of Luis, McGinn & Barkley is too open. It's McGinn or Barkley but not both.
We simply didn't play in the first half & conceded from set-pieces.
On the plus side, we didn't capitulate & could have got a point.
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We went into these last two games all Billy Big Bollocks, and left ourselves wide open at the back. It was so easy for them to slice us open, fucking huge avenues to run into, shit pressing, and all very slow.
The bizarre thing in the first half was just how open we were, despite not actually committing many players forward.
We need to be much more compact and hard to break down.
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I said to my son for the second free kick, is there a new rule that you can not have a man on the line ?
Have someone on that left post and it takes it down as an option
Instead they fucking score there !!
Guess it's up to what Martinez wants. Player on the line brings opposition players into his eyeline infront of him but yeah it likely would've stopped at least one of the goals.
Next time v Southampton we just have to let them run on in occasions rather than taking them down on edge of the box as we saw today what is more likely to lead to goals conceded against them.
Yes, statistically the chances of them scoring when Luiz committed the foul were probably low and even on the Cash hand ball the likelihood was less.
I almost think that keepers would be better off with no wall sometimes as some shots would be easier to save, but then it's easy to be wise after the event and I know that the wall is still the safer option.
That's something which has apparently been talked about a lot in coaching circles, with the way modern balls fly around. I suppose nobody wants to be the first to try it.
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Our set pieces are naff aswell, I never feel confident that we will score from a corner or free kick.
Agreed. Plus other teams defenders tend to jump and block them as well which is mighty annoying.
It’s an area where we miss having Conor on the pitch and he must be disappointed to have been completely left out after scoring and assisting in his last game.
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Oh and despite the inevitable doom and gloom, we win our game in hand, we’d be joint 2nd.
Err you do know it's Man City away don't you?.
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It's the nature of our squad, a bit gung-ho. We need to just slow it down at times but there's a rush to get forward and often there isn't a coherent plan.
The scoreline suggests a closer match.
They scored with their shots and we gave away set-piece goals. Naivety.
Still, Watkins scored, the goal difference wasn't badly affected and that last half an hour will give us confidence against the arse.
4 wins from 6 with. +6 goal difference.
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Oh and despite the inevitable doom and gloom, we win our game in hand, we’d be joint 2nd.
Err you do know it's Man City away don't you?.
City score and concede a fair few goals (as do we). I predict a 3-3 draw.
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Oh and despite the inevitable doom and gloom, we win our game in hand, we’d be joint 2nd.
Err you do know it's Man City away don't you?.
Thats the spirit.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-soton/report/428897
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This result didn’t need to be. But you’re not giving yourself much of a chance having a 5ft nothing marking a giant for their first. That was really poor.
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It's the nature of our squad, a bit gung-ho. We need to just slow it down at times but there's a rush to get forward and often there isn't a coherent plan.
The scoreline suggests a closer match.
They scored with their shots and we gave away set-piece goals. Naivety.
Still, Watkins scored, the goal difference wasn't badly affected and that last half an hour will give us confidence against the arse.
4 wins from 6 with. +6 goal difference.
Those two late goals made the scoreline and our goal difference more respectable. After the restart last season and the situation we were in down the bottom of the table I started obsessing about the goal difference of ourselves and the other teams in the bottom six.
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Oh and despite the inevitable doom and gloom, we win our game in hand, we’d be joint 2nd.
Err you do know it's Man City away don't you?.
City score and concede a fair few goals (as do we). I predict a 3-3 draw.
Game won't be played until January at earliest so it's not really worth bothering about. Would rather have played them now though as by then Aguero will probably be on 10 match scoring streak and De Bruyne will be fully fit.
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No doubt we’ll hear form smith that he laid into them at half time.
If that’s the case, maybe it’d help if he installed the same fight and attitude before the game starts.
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The game was lost when we failed to mark the Giant and they scored. The second half is almost irrelevant because they took their foot off the gas and bought on some squad players.
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Oh and their keeper did well too...
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I mean obviously we were better 2nd half but they were 4-0 up. They simply didn't need to try which gave us more chances to attack. It pretty much always happens, I know not every time but psychologically you naturally sit off most the time. I'm still bothered that when they did try they succeeded.
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Oh and despite the inevitable doom and gloom, we win our game in hand, we’d be joint 2nd.
Err you do know it's Man City away don't you?.
City score and concede a fair few goals (as do we). I predict a 3-3 draw.
I was thinking this as I typed and thought feck it anyway, you never know. Point remains, we’re not too far off the top end.
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I mean obviously we were better 2nd half but they were 4-0 up. They simply didn't need to try which gave us more chances to attack. It pretty much always happens, I know not every time but psychologically you naturally sit off most the time. I'm still bothered that when they did try they succeeded.
Was a bit like when we went 3 up at Fulham and understandably tailed off. Fulham had goal ruled out by VAR and Martinez made some other saves.
It's understandable particularly from teams who press opposition as much as they do.
What we need to do is start the Arsenal game focused and like we're awake which didn't happen today.
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We've been collectively very poor in midfield the last couple of weeks and this has really put us in a bad spot. Barkley, McGinn and Douglas Luiz haven't matched their opponents for workrate and intensity and we've been in trouble as a result.
Thought that Barkley and McGinn in particular really struggled. No-one should be unsubbable or undroppable regardless of their reputation or status.
McGinn and Barkley should be concerned about their places at Arsenal. Doubt it will happen but they can't feel that they cannot be dropped.
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I mean obviously we were better 2nd half but they were 4-0 up. They simply didn't need to try which gave us more chances to attack. It pretty much always happens, I know not every time but psychologically you naturally sit off most the time. I'm still bothered that when they did try they succeeded.
Their 3rd and 4th were caused by counter-attacks because we were pushing forward so they came just much as a consequence of the game situation as our 3 did. We shouldn't dismiss our goals as them just deciding to take it easy, it's insulting to both teams and isn't really true.
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Sloppy play and poor tactics for the first hour. We can't just turn up for portions of the game - especially after it's already over.
The free-kicks we gave away were criminal, as was expecting Gimli McGinn to mark the Giant.
Their keeper had a good game too.
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6th with a game in hand. Up the Villa!
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Goal for Olly, bit of magic from Jack. Nothing else happened.
Glad I don't sit next to you
You’d have a job.
Why though?
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Need to learn that just because we spanked the bin dippers doesn’t make us Charlie big bollocks. Let’s hope this isn’t a losing streak coming our way
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6th with a game in hand. Up the Villa!
Just wondering, how long are we going to have this game in hand for?
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Bizarrely I have no idea what we did different in the last 30 mins, and I don’t buy the Saints took their foot off the pedal crap, but we need to learn from that. Suspect it was the fullbacks pushing further up and when Cash didn’t do as he was told Elmo did
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Next year I think.
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Next year I think.
Is it an advantage mentally or not?
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I mean obviously we were better 2nd half but they were 4-0 up. They simply didn't need to try which gave us more chances to attack. It pretty much always happens, I know not every time but psychologically you naturally sit off most the time. I'm still bothered that when they did try they succeeded.
Their 3rd and 4th were caused by counter-attacks because we were pushing forward so they came just much as a consequence of the game situation as our 3 did. We shouldn't dismiss our goals as them just deciding to take it easy, it's insulting to both teams and isn't really true.
That was the case for those 2 goals but after they didn't need to push on and attack us. I don't find that insulting, I expect it.
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Cash got torn a new one and McGinn was absolutely abysmal, neither deserve to be automatic starters for the next match. We were significantly better for the last 25 minutes because Cash wasn't on the pitch.
I'd drop Cash, McGinn and possibly Luiz for Arsenal. Cash is reckless and lightweight, McGinn looks overweight and slow and Luiz looks knackered.
We have fresh players on the bench - it's time for some much needed rotation.
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Tonight was the first time I’ve become a smith out proponent. He’s great. He’s fine. But that’s what he is, he can’t react mid game to what we need. A very thorough manager, well prepared but he is the me who is holding us back now.
And I’m deliberating saying this now, while there’s no crisis. He’s ok. But if we aspire to be top 8 this season, he’s not fine.
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Bizarrely I have no idea what we did different in the last 30 mins, and I don’t buy the Saints took their foot off the pedal crap, but we need to learn from that. Suspect it was the fullbacks pushing further up and when Cash didn’t do as he was told Elmo did
That's exactly what happened, we got the fullback higher up the pitch and let Watkins and Jack drift into each others space which meant we completely overloaded them on both wings because they'd been playing with the wingers really tucked in. That had been working because they were crowding us in midfield so we just stopped trying to play in there and went wide instead. I just wish we'd figured it out sooner.
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I was more disappointed with the first goal than the others. We'd already had a let off for the VAR offside, then defended just as abysmally for the one that counted.
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Tonight was the first time I’ve become a smith out proponent. He’s great. He’s fine. But that’s what he is, he can’t react mid game to what we need. A very thorough manager, well prepared but he is the me who is holding us back now.
And I’m deliberating saying this now, while there’s no crisis. He’s ok. But if we aspire to be top 8 this season, he’s not fine.
Top 8, wow I would be happy with 14th and that’s with our start. Top 8 I personally think is well over the top.
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Cash got torn a new one and McGinn was absolutely abysmal, neither deserve to be automatic starters for the next match. We were significantly better for the last 25 minutes because Cash wasn't on the pitch.
I'd drop Cash, McGinn and possibly Luiz for Arsenal. Cash is reckless and lightweight, McGinn looks overweight and slow and Luiz looks knackered.
We have fresh players on the bench - it's time for some much needed rotation.
I agree. Hourihane was unlucky to be dropped when he was, but you couldn't argue with Barkley's inclusion after the Liverpool match. Barkley has been appalling for the last two games though, and so has McGinn, so one of them should be dropped for Hourihane.
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Cash got torn a new one and McGinn was absolutely abysmal, neither deserve to be automatic starters for the next match. We were significantly better for the last 25 minutes because Cash wasn't on the pitch.
I'd drop Cash, McGinn and possibly Luiz for Arsenal. Cash is reckless and lightweight, McGinn looks overweight and slow and Luiz looks knackered.
We have fresh players on the bench - it's time for some much needed rotation.
I agree. Hourihane was unlucky to be dropped when he was, but you couldn't argue with Barkley's inclusion after the Liverpool match. Barkley has been appalling for the last two games though, and so has McGinn, so one of them should be dropped for Hourihane.
I agree with your thinking but I'd play Nakamba rather than Hourihane. Nakamba has his limitations but he is solid. He tackles and offers a physical presence. I just feel that the last 2 weeks we have been out thought and out fought in midfield which has really cost us.
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Tonight was the first time I’ve become a smith out proponent. He’s great. He’s fine. But that’s what he is, he can’t react mid game to what we need. A very thorough manager, well prepared but he is the me who is holding us back now.
And I’m deliberating saying this now, while there’s no crisis. He’s ok. But if we aspire to be top 8 this season, he’s not fine.
Top 8, wow I would be happy with 14th and that’s with our start. Top 8 I personally think is well over the top.
I’d be ‘happy’ with 14th.
To go from finishing 5th in the championship to 14th in the prem in 2 seasons would be nothing short of stunning.
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I'd be bloody delighted.
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I'd be bloody delighted.
Definitely. I'd be aiming for 10 more points than last year.
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Wow. A villa fan happy to finish 14th
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Anything less than top 1 should not only see Smith sacked and publically flogged, the whole club should be disbanded.
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I'd be bloody delighted.
Definitely. I'd be aiming for 10 more points than last year.
After spending what 70m in the summer on transfer fees alone ?
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Tonight was the first time I’ve become a smith out proponent. He’s great. He’s fine. But that’s what he is, he can’t react mid game to what we need. A very thorough manager, well prepared but he is the me who is holding us back now.
And I’m deliberating saying this now, while there’s no crisis. He’s ok. But if we aspire to be top 8 this season, he’s not fine.
Top 8, wow I would be happy with 14th and that’s with our start. Top 8 I personally think is well over the top.
I’d be ‘happy’ with 14th.
To go from finishing 5th in the championship to 14th in the prem in 2 seasons would be nothing short of stunning.
I'd be 'happy' too, it'd be our highest finish in a decade.
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Smith has been brilliant. Just the last two games have really shown his limitations. He’ll be fine for mid table, though.
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On paper, I think our first eleven is better than Leeds and Southampton.
Anyone disagree?
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Tonight was the first time I’ve become a smith out proponent. He’s great. He’s fine. But that’s what he is, he can’t react mid game to what we need. A very thorough manager, well prepared but he is the me who is holding us back now.
And I’m deliberating saying this now, while there’s no crisis. He’s ok. But if we aspire to be top 8 this season, he’s not fine.
Honestly!!
We’re 6th after 6 games, largely looking loads better than last season, including the 2nd half today even if Southampton in part sat back.
Does Ancelotti also need to go after Everton lose their 2nd game in a row to Newcastle??
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On paper, I think our first eleven is better than Leeds and Southampton.
Anyone disagree?
The evidence suggests not.
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Martinez 6 - maybe should be getting a defender back on post for second free kick?
Cash 3 - hopeless defensively, lucky not to be sent off. No better than Guilbert so far but Elmo will come in the next day
Konsa 5 - not his assured self I thought though to be fair the shit show was ahead of him
Mings 5 - didn't jump in the wall which cost us one goal. Did well in the opposition box for a change but poor again in his own
Targett 7 - very good second half combining with Grealish, gave away free kick for first goal though
Luiz 4 - having a poor season but has been sold out by the tactics. Impossible to cover midfield by himself. Gave away free kick for one goal.
McGinn 4 - useless for about 60 mins until he shifted next to Luiz. Improved from then on but game was done.
Barkley 2 - the epitome of a hologram without the ball. Doesn't run, doesn't tackle, holds onto ball too long. Somehow not replaced. Risible effort to retain ball for their fourth.
Traore 5 - one decent shot but wasn't giving Cash much help. Completely unsuited to the role he seems to have been bought to play
Watkins 4 - bullied physically I thought. Movement was poor. Did well for penalty but another struggle up front.
Grealish 9 - outstanding. A goal and two assists, forced a series of other chances including two just after half time.
Trez 8 - worked like a trooper and three fine efforts. A very limited player but nothing wrong with his application.
Elmo 6 - got plenty of the ball when he came in. Solid enough I guess
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On paper, I think our first eleven is better than Leeds and Southampton.
Anyone disagree?
The evidence suggests not.
pitty we play on grass.
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Smith , Bielsa, Hasenhuttl
Who’s the best manager?
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Smith , Bielsa, Hasenhuttl
Who’s the best manager?
Oh let me see
Who is the best player Ronaldo Messi or Scott Hogan?
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Smith , Bielsa, Hasenhuttl
Who’s the best manager?
Can change by the week depending on the wind direction.
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I'd be bloody delighted.
Definitely. I'd be aiming for 10 more points than last year.
After spending what 70m in the summer on transfer fees alone ?
45 points could get us 11th or 12th.
Top half would be pretty good. It's still very possible as long as we get out of this developing malaise pretty quickly.
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No. 1 son who's stuck in Bucharest and watches on streams has just sent me this - perceptive/balanced/cause for hope?
Had a few more thoughts v Southampton.
We've got the youngest team in the league, and many of them have only experience of really 1 season in the Prem as first team players or even less. We had a 'fairytale' (to use a trite commentary phrase) start to the season, and I think the Leeds game was a crushing blow to confidence as we were efficiently cut to pieces by a much better drilled and organised team, it takes time to get this team - of which several key players are still new to - back to form.
Nevertheless I'd say we've only played 1 bad 90 mins; unfortunately it was the second half v Leeds and the first half v Southampton. The second showed improvement and that this team still has fight in it.
Heads must not dip and keep themselves grounded as it's a long season and with Covid probably going to be a weird one.
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The result papers over some pretty considerable cracks.
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Smith , Bielsa, Hasenhuttl
Who’s the best manager?
Definitely not Smith in any way.
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The result papers over some pretty considerable cracks.
Those cracks are canyons. We were a disorganised rabble today when the game was competitive.
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Any idea why Southampton are allowed to wear white shorts?
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For me we are building. The squad is better than last season, not great but better. Personally I don’t think Dean Smith will take Villa to where I want us, ie, regular in Europe and a couple of trophy’s, but he could be the manager to take us forward and then a better manger takes us on. I was unhappy with Dean at times last season, but I am prepared to give him time. We still have lots to do, and he certainly deserves this season.
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I'd be bloody delighted.
Definitely. I'd be aiming for 10 more points than last year.
After spending what 70m in the summer on transfer fees alone ?
45 points could get us 11th or 12th.
Top half would be pretty good. It's still very possible as long as we get out of this developing malaise pretty quickly.
That's pretty much what I was thinking SHQ. 11-14th. I just think our expectations have been heightened but the last 2 games show us that it will still be a slog in parts.
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I threw in the towel at 0-4 and went shopping. Pleased to hear the lads didn't.
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I called out 'why is McGinn marking the big number 4', then my stream froze...
The collective movement of the team back & forth seems to have disappeared. We defended & attached as a team until half time vs Leeds, from which point it seems the midfield has largely disappeared, creating acres of space.
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This season gets ever stranger,
The top 3 teams in the table have conceded more goals than the bottom 3.
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Any idea why Southampton are allowed to wear white shorts?
We said this.Bearing in mind we have a light blue change home short for this eventuality.
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No doubt we’ll hear form smith that he laid into them at half time.
If that’s the case, maybe it’d help if he installed the same fight and attitude before the game starts.
I’ve seen one where he says he didn’t want to change anything, but the players did, so he let them. This worries me a bit.
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On paper, I think our first eleven is better than Leeds and Southampton.
I agree, who would you take from saints or leeds? I doubt anyone would want walcott? Ings from Saints, maybe Kalvin Phillips from Leeds. Ward Prowse has always been anonymous unless there's a dead ball, an english version of hourihane. But both teams full of no name players who just follow their instructions and run all day.
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After the Leeds game I wasn't expecting that. The least I hoped for was a more closely fought game but for 60 minutes we pretty much failed to turn up again. Admittedly, Southampton like Leeds play with a sense of purpose, so it shouldn't be too much of a shock but why are we struggling again with the basics? Dean can say what he wants but he needs to face facts that teams are punishing us and we seem to have no answer.
Arsenal next. Joy.
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Matt Targett is extremely careless in keeping hold of the football.
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Bad first half better second.
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Bad first half better second.
Problem is D, the game was over by the time we turned up.
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On paper, I think our first eleven is better than Leeds and Southampton.
Anyone disagree?
Unfortunate that the game is not played on paper.
Second game running that we have not been 'at it' from the first whistle. After a nice break and a full week at Bodymoor. Second game running that we have been tactically poor.
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I’ve seen one where he says he didn’t want to change anything, but the players did, so he let them. This worries me a bit.
If true, this worries me a lot.
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Me too.
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On paper, I think our first eleven is better than Leeds and Southampton.
Anyone disagree?
Yes I'd disagree. They have numerous hardened PL footballers. I'd take Martinez, Jack, Konsa in the first XI. But they have solid players in numerous areas that are better than ours. Bertrand, Vestergaard, Romeu isn't bad, Ward Prowse is superb as is Ings. Adams has improved a lot, Walcott has loads of experience and is still decent. Walker Peters is marginally better than Cash. Their bench also has experienced players on it. They showed they are savvy enough and talented to completely take us apart in the first half.
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Ings is the only definite i'd take of theirs.
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On paper, I think our first eleven is better than Leeds and Southampton.
Anyone disagree?
I don't disagree and I reckon come the end of the season using the Mcgregor method we will be shown to be better than both of them.
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Ings is the only definite i'd take of theirs.
You seriously would not take Ward-Prowse into our midfield?
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Nope. I'd have in the squad for sure though.
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I think the managers at Leeds and Southampton are a way ahead of Smith
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The last 2 results have co-incided with me transfering Martinez into my Fantasy League team. I shall transfer him back out and normal service will be resumed.
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Ings is the only definite i'd take of theirs.
You seriously would not take Ward-Prowse into our midfield?
he's a good player
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I’ve seen one where he says he didn’t want to change anything, but the players did, so he let them. This worries me a bit.
If true, this worries me a lot.
I’ve gone back to find the interview and I have probably over-stated it. If no one else picked up on this then maybe it’s me reading too much, or wrongly, into what he says at about 1.25 here? (after talking through the first half as if we were just in the end of 3 lucky strikes in an even game). I am a big fan of Dean Smith and I’m still happy with how we’ve started this season overall, but this post match interview did leave me feeling a little uneasy.
https://youtu.be/Gk40Hth73HI
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Don’t think there’s too much in those comments to suggest anything untoward
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I’ve seen one where he says he didn’t want to change anything, but the players did, so he let them. This worries me a bit.
If true, this worries me a lot.
I’ve gone back to find the interview and I have probably over-stated it.
Yes, probably a little overstated (wouldn't read too much into his comments) but very minor compared to some of the overreactions we see aired on H&V. :)
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He watched a different game to the one I saw. We were all over the place the first half and the game was lost.
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'There weren't too many defensive issues.' Ings was clean through after two minutes and they had the ball in the net just after that.
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Well we won 2.45 - 1 on expected goals. I was expecting Smith to quote that as he did last season. The only snag is that our XG and real goals only came with the game out of reach.
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Ings is the only definite i'd take of theirs.
You seriously would not take Ward-Prowse into our midfield?
I would take him ahead of Barkley.
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Deano is deluded in the extreme.
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It's a bit of both, they scored with their only on target efforts. We had twice as many shots and shots on target. Our defending was lacking at times though, but so was Southampton's.
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The game was as good as over at 4-0 but we could have easily got something out of it and that's the one positive to take from it I suppose. Disapointed to lose but not totally downhearted.
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It's a bit of both, they scored with their only on target efforts. We had twice as many shots and shots on target. Our defending was lacking at times though, but so was Southampton's.
3 of their 4 shots were from outside the box, too. I reckon if you laid all of just Trez's efforts end to end they'd not reach much past the penalty spot.
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I have to say after last season I’m happy to be 11 points clear of the bottom 3 after 6 games.
Offered before the season and hands would well and truly be bitten off.
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I remember once at the old Southampton ground we went 0-4 behind after twenty minutes. Allan Evans was still shouting at the referee about their third goal when their fourth went in.
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It's still so long ago that we last beat Southampton at home Carlton Cole scored for us.
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On paper, I think our first eleven is better than Leeds and Southampton.
Anyone disagree?
I don't disagree and I reckon come the end of the season using the Mcgregor method we will be shown to be better than both of them.
We'll be finishing comfortable top half if we finish above Southampton and Leeds. I reckon Southampton could be a contender for 7th if they steer clear of injuries (talk Ings might've picked up another knee injury which would be a massive blow for them).
Think we need to concentrate on finishing above likes of Palace, West Ham, Newcastle and Brighton. Already 7 points clear of Brighton and the other three are far more inconsistant in form and style of play so think that's realistic.
Just for context we haven't finished above Palace in the league since 2013 (when they weren't even a premier league team) Newcastle the same year (we finished one goal ahead of them in 15th) and West Ham since 2012 so it's about time we changed that as we used to finish ahead of all three with ease.
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We played better second half because at 4-0 they took the foot off the pedal. After being towelled by Leeds Smith picked the same squad except one, using the same tactics with the same result. I don't think Smith had any influence on the fight back i believe two or three of our players were bloody angry especially Mings, his face was like thunder.
Still think Jack needs to be getting the ball around the box not on the wings where they can foul him.
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'There weren't too many defensive issues.' Ings was clean through after two minutes and they had the ball in the net just after that.
Smith lives in a dream world.
I'm pretty sure the owners won't tolerate a season like last, and if the results continue in this way, he'll be sent on his way.
His pre match and post match interviews are Bruce-esque at times.
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We made some horrendous mistakes on the pitch. Berkley losing the ball for their 4th and no one putting in a challenge or touching the ball until Martinez picked the ball out the net. Ward Prowse hits a mean free kick, but jeez that tackle by Luiz was so naive it was an embarrassment.
I don’t understand why, when we have gone 7 goals without scoring the substitutions are through injury and to avoid a red card. I appreciate Hourihane isn’t the best but surely he should have had 20 minutes against either Leeds or the Scummers? That’s a worry as Smith doesn’t seem to trust his back ups. Barkley was poor delivering the ball into the box from dead ball situations, surely there are others who can do that?
I’m worried the inflexibility of personnel will cost us. I’m not saying it would have been different if we’d changed the team after 70 or so minutes but hourihane who can be lightweight could have come on when the game was slowing up and created. It may not have mattered yesterday, but it will do soon.
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I’ve seen one where he says he didn’t want to change anything, but the players did, so he let them. This worries me a bit.
If true, this worries me a lot.
I’m not sure it’s an accurate reflection of what he said.
The quotes I read said that the players blamed the tactics but he disagreed and that the only change he made was to swap Barkley and McGinn round for the second half which is something we’ve done before.
I went to watch my son play yesterday so only watched the second half but what I saw was a committed, aggressive performance that Southampton really struggled to deal with. Obviously it was too late to change the result due to what had occurred in the first half but I take encouragement from heads not dropping and fighting back to make it a more respectable score line.
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I’ve seen one where he says he didn’t want to change anything, but the players did, so he let them. This worries me a bit.
If true, this worries me a lot.
I’m not sure it’s an accurate reflection of what he said.
The quotes I read said that the players blamed the tactics but he disagreed and that the only change he made was to swap Barkley and McGinn round for the second half which is something we’ve done before.
I went to watch my son play yesterday so only watched the second half but what I saw was a committed, aggressive performance that Southampton really struggled to deal with. Obviously it was too late to change the result due to what had occurred in the first half but I take encouragement from heads not dropping and fighting back to make it a more respectable score line.
Ignoring the display in the second half. Conceding three free kicks in very very good areas against Southampton is amateur. You can play as well as you want but giving up chances that play to their huge strength is naive
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I’ve seen one where he says he didn’t want to change anything, but the players did, so he let them. This worries me a bit.
If true, this worries me a lot.
I’m not sure it’s an accurate reflection of what he said.
The quotes I read said that the players blamed the tactics but he disagreed and that the only change he made was to swap Barkley and McGinn round for the second half which is something we’ve done before.
I went to watch my son play yesterday so only watched the second half but what I saw was a committed, aggressive performance that Southampton really struggled to deal with. Obviously it was too late to change the result due to what had occurred in the first half but I take encouragement from heads not dropping and fighting back to make it a more respectable score line.
Ignoring the display in the second half. Conceding three free kicks in very very good areas against Southampton is amateur. You can play as well as you want but giving up chances that play to their huge strength is naive
Yep its easy to put in a committed display when we're already 3-4 goals down. They were able to take their foot off the gas so made it easier for us.
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We made some horrendous mistakes on the pitch. Berkley losing the ball for their 4th and no one putting in a challenge or touching the ball until Martinez picked the ball out the net. Ward Prowse hits a mean free kick, but jeez that tackle by Luiz was so naive it was an embarrassment.
You dont even mention Mcginn marking the Giant for the first.
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We made some horrendous mistakes on the pitch. Berkley losing the ball for their 4th and no one putting in a challenge or touching the ball until Martinez picked the ball out the net. Ward Prowse hits a mean free kick, but jeez that tackle by Luiz was so naive it was an embarrassment.
You dont even mention Mcginn marking the Giant for the first.
I thought that was more obvious. Thats something I would hope Martinez would have done. Zonal marking requires the keeper to still identify overloads.
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We made some horrendous mistakes on the pitch. Berkley losing the ball for their 4th and no one putting in a challenge or touching the ball until Martinez picked the ball out the net. Ward Prowse hits a mean free kick, but jeez that tackle by Luiz was so naive it was an embarrassment.
You dont even mention Mcginn marking the Giant for the first.
I thought that was more obvious. Thats something I would hope Martinez would have done. Zonal marking requires the keeper to still identify overloads.
Surely this is decided in the prep before the game. If zonal marking means the 2 best players in the air are going to stand on the 6 yard box in front of the goal, I know exactly where I want the best header of the ball and where the cross needs to go.
Beyond amatuer.
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I don’t think we disagree CL.
But someone on the pitch has to be controlling it. Even at amateur level the keeper or big lump of a centre half is pointing out the problem. There was a huge hole on the six yard box which the kid hit with the free kick McGinn standing there and Mings on their lump stops that goal.
I was hoping Martinez would be the leader of the defence, he isn’t showing it.
As for amateurish.., Luiz’s tackle? With Konsa and Mings in close attendance? Walcott was looking for the touch.
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I don’t think we disagree CL.
But someone on the pitch has to be controlling it. Even at amateur level the keeper or big lump of a centre half is pointing out the problem. There was a huge hole on the six yard box which the kid hit with the free kick McGinn standing there and Mings on their lump stops that goal.
I was hoping Martinez would be the leader of the defence, he isn’t showing it.
As for amateurish.., Luiz’s tackle? With Konsa and Mings in close attendance? Walcott was looking for the touch.
I would hope it would be Mings doing the organising, but you are right someone has too take control. I cant understand how a situation like that happens.
Regarding Walcott again stupid decision by Luiz.
I thought we were all over the place in the first half.
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Yes, we got back into the game late on, but overall I was very disappointed in our game plan and performance.
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The last 2 results have co-incided with me transfering Martinez into my Fantasy League team. I shall transfer him back out and normal service will be resumed.
I rather think that normal service has been resumed.
Still. it was fun while it lasted.
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So is there a very good reason why they don't put a player on the line at free kicks especially when facing a specialist like Ward-Prowse and after he's put one in already?
And is there a reason why Mings didn't jump for the second one which would have stopped the goal?
It's things like this that drive me mad. We can all see it so why can't they?
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So is there a very good reason why they don't put a player on the line at free kicks especially when facing a specialist like Ward-Prowse and after he's put one in already?
And is there a reason why Mings didn't jump for the second one which would have stopped the goal?
It's things like this that drive me mad. We can all see it so why can't they?
I don't think Mings is the bravest when it comes to situations like that. His natural inclination seems to be to want to get out of the way.
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So is there a very good reason why they don't put a player on the line at free kicks especially when facing a specialist like Ward-Prowse and after he's put one in already?
Years ago always put a man on the posts and a lot less direct free kick goals were scored. Much harder to aim at 1ft of goal than 8ft! Apparently you can't do that anymore because if you are on the post you cant catch anybody offside on the rebound - rather pointless I feel if the ball goes straight in the back of the net! Both goals would have been stopped with someone on the post and goalkeeper can stand central instead of to one side. Simples.
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So is there a very good reason why they don't put a player on the line at free kicks especially when facing a specialist like Ward-Prowse and after he's put one in already?
Years ago always put a man on the posts and a lot less direct free kick goals were scored. Much harder to aim at 1ft of goal than 8ft! Apparently you can't do that anymore because if you are on the post you cant catch anybody offside on the rebound - rather pointless I feel if the ball goes straight in the back of the net! Both goals would have been stopped with someone on the post and goalkeeper can stand central instead of to one side. Simples.
This.
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Didn't we put Southgate on the line to help Oakes keep out Beckham's free kicks at Old Trafford in 1999? I think the bugger still scored (though that may have been from open play).
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So is there a very good reason why they don't put a player on the line at free kicks especially when facing a specialist like Ward-Prowse and after he's put one in already?
Years ago always put a man on the posts and a lot less direct free kick goals were scored. Much harder to aim at 1ft of goal than 8ft! Apparently you can't do that anymore because if you are on the post you cant catch anybody offside on the rebound - rather pointless I feel if the ball goes straight in the back of the net! Both goals would have been stopped with someone on the post and goalkeeper can stand central instead of to one side. Simples.
You would then just get forwards standing directly in front of the keeper to block his view.
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Yesterday was a lot about individual errors so I'm not too downhearted yet. But I do wish that in the last window we had been able to get in a dominant defensive presence in midfield. Dougie is bound to have periods of slightly off form and I am worried we are going to burn him out or he is going to get injured. A priority for January, I think.
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Free kicks would still go over a man on the line. Or he'd want to handle it.
The trick is not to concede a free kick in those areas.
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Glad they made a fist of it second half, hopefully gives us something positive to take away from it. I so nearly didn't put the second half on, and so nearly turned off at 4. Im glad I didn't now as although we lost it feels like there is something there to build on for next week. I think we'll beat Arsenal now. Im not sure why but I do.
I fell asleep at half time woke up with about 5 minutes to go, heard that Ings had added a fourth, went for a crap and came back to discover later it was 3-4 and their goalkeeper had kept us at bay with a good second half performance.
Madness
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Maybe if you stopped sleeping and pooing we might win again.
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Yes, we got back into the game late on, but overall I was very disappointed in our game plan and performance.
I’ve just been reading a Saints fans forum and they are saying exactly the same thing believe it or not! They are unanimous in thinking that a win felt like a loss after such a poor second half performance - and they were fearing it would happen even when they were 3-0 up, so were very relieved when Ings scored his wonder goal. Perhaps Dean is right and we are beating ourselves up unnecessarily
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Maybe if you stopped sleeping and pooing we might win again.
:'( :'(
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Yes, we got back into the game late on, but overall I was very disappointed in our game plan and performance.
I’ve just been reading a Saints fans forum and they are saying exactly the same thing believe it or not! They are unanimous in thinking that a win felt like a loss after such a poor second half performance - and they were fearing it would happen even when they were 3-0 up, so were very relieved when Ings scored his wonder goal. Perhaps Dean is right and we are beating ourselves up unnecessarily
Nah. A loss felt very much like a loss.
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Someone if not all in the coaching staff need beating up for the first goal.
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it was a shambles - we only got back into it because Southampton really took their foot off the pedal.
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We got back into it because we stopped making stupid mistakes, as soon as we did that Southampton created the square root of naff all.
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We got back into it because we stopped making stupid mistakes, as soon as we did that Southampton created the square root of naff all.
Yup, it's all about the coaching of the players and their individual discipline.
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We got back into it because we stopped making stupid mistakes, as soon as we did that Southampton created the square root of naff all.
Yes, after they put 4 past us
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All scored from fuck ups rather than scintillating Southampton play. Fuck ups stopped, Southampton created fuck all.
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All scored from fuck ups rather than scintillating Southampton play. Fuck ups stopped, Southampton created fuck all.
Was it their first or the disallowed one that got set in motion by Traore's only telling contribution wherein he won the ball, then tripped over his own feet and gave it them back?
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I don’t think we disagree CL.
But someone on the pitch has to be controlling it. Even at amateur level the keeper or big lump of a centre half is pointing out the problem. There was a huge hole on the six yard box which the kid hit with the free kick McGinn standing there and Mings on their lump stops that goal.
I was hoping Martinez would be the leader of the defence, he isn’t showing it.
As for amateurish.., Luiz’s tackle? With Konsa and Mings in close attendance? Walcott was looking for the touch.
I wonder if Luiz needs some help in the middle of the park especially against the teams who are pressing in your face. I am thinking that maybe the international break does not do him any favours, travelling back to South America playing two full periods of 90 minutes then travelling back with the jet lag etc. maybe the legs start to go a bot or maybe he needs a bit of a rest.
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I don’t think we disagree CL.
But someone on the pitch has to be controlling it. Even at amateur level the keeper or big lump of a centre half is pointing out the problem. There was a huge hole on the six yard box which the kid hit with the free kick McGinn standing there and Mings on their lump stops that goal.
I was hoping Martinez would be the leader of the defence, he isn’t showing it.
As for amateurish.., Luiz’s tackle? With Konsa and Mings in close attendance? Walcott was looking for the touch.
I wonder if Luiz needs some help in the middle of the park especially against the teams who are pressing in your face. I am thinking that maybe the international break does not do him any favours, travelling back to South America playing two full periods of 90 minutes then travelling back with the jet lag etc. maybe the legs start to go a bot or maybe he needs a bit of a rest.
Peak Makeleke would struggle to cover the lack of balance and position discipline in the four ahead of Luiz. With the exception of the Leicester game, Luiz has struggled all season even against Fulham he was poor. Without doubt, he needs someone next to him to play in a two. I think his best game last season was at Everton where the much maligned Hourihane also did well next to him.
At a minimum McGinn needs to drop back one next to Luiz like he did against Liverpool but I'm not sure that's McGinn's best position either. For me Hourihane or even Nakamba come back in asap and we start trying to become hard to play through as a priority.
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After the Leeds game I wasn't expecting that. The least I hoped for was a more closely fought game but for 60 minutes we pretty much failed to turn up again. Admittedly, Southampton like Leeds play with a sense of purpose, so it shouldn't be too much of a shock but why are we struggling again with the basics? Dean can say what he wants but he needs to face facts that teams are punishing us and we seem to have no answer.
Arsenal next. Joy.
who beat last time we played them. It’s easy to get down after a couple of losses. But we can’t win every game. We can get something against Arsenal and stop the slide.
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I have more confidence that we’ll get something from the Arsenal match than I ever did against high pressing teams like Leeds and Soton.
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I have more confidence that we’ll get something from the Arsenal match than I ever did against high pressing teams like Leeds and Soton.
I fancy us against Arsenal as well.
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I think we'll be lucky to get a draw against Arsenal. Two games we should be capable of winning after that though.
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Arse very good against Manure. Compact well organised, unless Smith solves our midfield and central defensive problems we will be beaten.
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Mind you Liverpool looked superb against Arsenal then faced us. Maybe we’ll do it again?
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We beat Leicester, they thumped Leeds.
As for solving or fixing our defence and midfield, maybe it's not broken.
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We beat Leicester, they thumped Leeds.
As for solving or fixing our defence and midfield, maybe it's not broken.
Smith suggested similar.
The balance in the centre midfield, Mings out of sorts, Cash getting exposed.
Conceding 7 in 2 games, something is not right.
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I don’t think anything is just broken, looking at the whole league for some reason everyone is having a blip or two which maybe coinciding with the other team really capitalising on it in an extreme way.
Mings and Konsa with Doug just in front have been excellent since March so I’m not going to panic just yet. I’ve been very impressed with Leeds and even last night they did look very tenacious and good, but it does show it’s all easily unpicked for some reason. Leicester managed them very well, but Leeds did have chances, as we did against them.
Southampton are also a very good team and pounced on a few mistakes we made. Likewise we did against Liverpool.
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Take away the results against Liverpool & Leeds, and we look like a decent mid table side. There's lessons that need to be learnt, but there's also nothing that's particularly concerning for where we are right now (2nd season in the top flight after a long absence)
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Take away the results against Liverpool & Leeds, and we look like a decent mid table side. There's lessons that need to be learnt, but there's also nothing that's particularly concerning for where we are right now (2nd season in the top flight after a long absence)
Seven goals conceded in the last two games and what likes like a return to the defensive shambles of last season is mildly concerning.
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Take away the results against Liverpool & Leeds, and we look like a decent mid table side. There's lessons that need to be learnt, but there's also nothing that's particularly concerning for where we are right now (2nd season in the top flight after a long absence)
Seven goals conceded in the last two games and what likes like a return to the defensive shambles of last season is mildly concerning.
It was dejavu all over again including Smith post match ramblings.
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Take away the results against Liverpool & Leeds, and we look like a decent mid table side. There's lessons that need to be learnt, but there's also nothing that's particularly concerning for where we are right now (2nd season in the top flight after a long absence)
Seven goals conceded in the last two games and what likes like a return to the defensive shambles of last season is mildly concerning.
Liverpool conceded 7 in one game should Klopp be concerned?
We’re a team who only avoided relegation on final whistle of last season and is now trying to build and establish itself in the PL. Obviously we are not ready to be top 6 contenders so results are inevitably going to be mixed. This is nicely illustrated by the sequence of us beating Leicester; Leeds beating us; Leicester beating Leeds.
As things stand were in a good place this season building on a decent end to the previous one.
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Take away the results against Liverpool & Leeds, and we look like a decent mid table side. There's lessons that need to be learnt, but there's also nothing that's particularly concerning for where we are right now (2nd season in the top flight after a long absence)
Seven goals conceded in the last two games and what likes like a return to the defensive shambles of last season is mildly concerning.
It was dejavu all over again including Smith post match ramblings.
I'm interested to know what sort of thing you'd expect him to say and what you thought he said that was rambling?
Managers generally don't give too much away in post-match interviews. They won't want to say too much about what went wrong, they want to fix it.
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Take away the results against Liverpool & Leeds, and we look like a decent mid table side. There's lessons that need to be learnt, but there's also nothing that's particularly concerning for where we are right now (2nd season in the top flight after a long absence)
Seven goals conceded in the last two games and what likes like a return to the defensive shambles of last season is mildly concerning.
It was dejavu all over again including Smith post match ramblings.
I'm interested to know what sort of thing you'd expect him to say and what you thought he said that was rambling?
Managers generally don't give too much away in post-match interviews. They won't want to say too much about what went wrong, they want to fix it.
I thought Hasenhüttl was more insightful. He noted how Ralphampton had pressed and worked a lot in the first hour or so, but that it was difficult to keep up once they lost a bit of focus, and then they also lost energy as we started to get wider and get behind them which paid dividends for us.
Dean just said that we would or could have won if the referee had added on a few more minutes but I didn't glean much more, aside from conceding bad free-kicks which we all knew.
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Take away the results against Liverpool & Leeds, and we look like a decent mid table side. There's lessons that need to be learnt, but there's also nothing that's particularly concerning for where we are right now (2nd season in the top flight after a long absence)
Seven goals conceded in the last two games and what likes like a return to the defensive shambles of last season is mildly concerning.
It was dejavu all over again including Smith post match ramblings.
I'm interested to know what sort of thing you'd expect him to say and what you thought he said that was rambling?
Managers generally don't give too much away in post-match interviews. They won't want to say too much about what went wrong, they want to fix it.
He said he didnt think we had a defensive problem first half.
3 minutes Ings Through on goal
then Target goes to ground unnessarily- Free Kick- Dwarf Giant Match up they score
They pass through our midfield- Luiz gets wrong side- Free kick they score
Cash then gets himself wrong side deliberate hand ball Free kick they score
They walked through our midfield with ease in the first half.
No defensive problems after 7 in 2 games?
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We beat Leicester, they thumped Leeds.
As for solving or fixing our defence and midfield, maybe it's not broken.
Smith suggested similar.
The balance in the centre midfield, Mings out of sorts, Cash getting exposed.
Conceding 7 in 2 games, something is not right.
Liverpool conceded seven in one game. Their defence must be shite.
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Southampton lost their first 2 games conceding 6, they must be shit as well.
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Look at the quality of the goals we have conceded
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Look at the quality of the goals we have conceded
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This is the thing. On the face of it conceding 7 goals in two games at home is alarming but 5 of those goals were world class so we need to bear that in mind before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Look at the quality of the goals we have conceded
This is the thing. On the face of it conceding 7 goals in two games at home is alarming but 5 of those goals were world class so we need to bear that in mind before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
[/quote]absolutely spot on
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Look at the quality of the goals we have conceded
This is the thing. On the face of it conceding 7 goals in two games at home is alarming but 5 of those goals were world class so we need to bear that in mind before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
[/quote]
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They were superb goals from Leeds and Southamptons perspectives. From our perspectives they were very avoidable and only natural that we focus on how to stop making those errors.
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They were superb goals from Leeds and Southamptons perspectives. From our perspectives they were very avoidable and only natural that we focus on how to stop making those errors.
Every goal conceded will always be analysed. We definitely made costly errors in both the Leeds and Southampton games but the manner in which we were punished for them was brutal. As always it's about how you react. I doubt that we have conceded 5 goals in consecutive games at Villa Park of such a high standard too many times.
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The only game that I've been impressed with us defensively was Leicester. Granted they didn't have Vardy or Madisson but we really didn't give them a sniff and as the game went on our midfield turned the screw on them.
Sheff Utd - the penalty we conceded against ten men was a shambles, break from our corner, with three or four players at fault. Hardly tested afterwards.
Fulham - game won early but both full backs were very poor early on. Luiz struggled badly in the holding role in the second half. Fortunate to keep a clean sheet
Liverpool - crazy game where we could easily have scored more than 10...but Liverpool also missed a host of chances. Cash destroyed by Jota and Luiz once again struggling.
Leicester - solid
Leeds - Mings at fault for all goals, Cash destroyed again with no cover. Luiz completely overran with no support
Southampton - pretty much a repeat of Leeds. Cash destroyed, Mings hopeless for two, set piece disorganisation, Luiz overran again
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The only game that I've been impressed with us defensively was Leicester. Granted they didn't have Vardy or Madisson but we really didn't give them a sniff and as the game went on our midfield turned the screw on them.
Sheff Utd - the penalty we conceded against ten men was a shambles, break from our corner, with three or four players at fault. Hardly tested afterwards.
Fulham - game won early but both full backs were very poor early on. Luiz struggled badly in the holding role in the second half. Fortunate to keep a clean sheet
Liverpool - crazy game where we could easily have scored more than 10...but Liverpool also missed a host of chances. Cash destroyed by Jota and Luiz once again struggling.
Leicester - solid
Leeds - Mings at fault for all goals, Cash destroyed again with no cover. Luiz completely overran with no support
Southampton - pretty much a repeat of Leeds. Cash destroyed, Mings hopeless for two, set piece disorganisation, Luiz overran again
I understand being critical and that serves a purpose and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I do think this is a bit over critical. ‘Cash’ destroyed’ by Jota?? So beating his man a couple of times in the game equates to destroying a player? Cash is a player who has stepped up a league and for me has looked largely comfortable apart from the last two games, he’ll be a very good player for us. Apart from the pen against sheff Utd, which was one mistake, the defence was completely comfortable. In this league every team has enough quality to create at least one or two good chances every game, if we’re going to critical of our defence because of this, it’s going to be a long season of criticism.
A lot of the conversation on here feels like it’s come after the start we had last year. Granted if we lose the next 3 then alarm bells are ringing, but we’re no where near this yet.
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The only game that I've been impressed with us defensively was Leicester. Granted they didn't have Vardy or Madisson but we really didn't give them a sniff and as the game went on our midfield turned the screw on them.
Sheff Utd - the penalty we conceded against ten men was a shambles, break from our corner, with three or four players at fault. Hardly tested afterwards.
Fulham - game won early but both full backs were very poor early on. Luiz struggled badly in the holding role in the second half. Fortunate to keep a clean sheet
Liverpool - crazy game where we could easily have scored more than 10...but Liverpool also missed a host of chances. Cash destroyed by Jota and Luiz once again struggling.
Leicester - solid
Leeds - Mings at fault for all goals, Cash destroyed again with no cover. Luiz completely overran with no support
Southampton - pretty much a repeat of Leeds. Cash destroyed, Mings hopeless for two, set piece disorganisation, Luiz overran again
Ok in the last two home games we've been hit with FIVE absolute top drawer finishes. But let's analyse a few more things just prior to the Leeds game.
Since "project restart" our defence has been as good as any in the Premier League. We have a goal difference during that period of +6. Right up there with the top teams. In 14 matches we have kept 6 clean sheets. In fact during those 14 matches we conceded just FOUR times in total. Only Man Utd scored more than 2 against us. We've brought in a top international keeper to bolster the defence. Mistakes have happened in the last two games and our opponents have been ruthless in punishing them. That won't always be so. And that doesn't mean our defence has suddenly become rubbish.
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Look at the quality of the goals we have conceded
This is the thing. On the face of it conceding 7 goals in two games at home is alarming but 5 of those goals were world class so we need to bear that in mind before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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When we lose, people overreact in the heat of the moment, normally after 48 hours people have calmed down enough and have a more considered view.........
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We're conceding a lot more goals at home. A full Holte wouldn't stand for it! Well...maybe they would get-up, stand and leave to beat the traffic.
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We're conceding a lot more goals at home. A full Holte wouldn't stand for it! Well...maybe they would get-up, stand and leave to beat the traffic.
😄😄😄
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We beat Leicester, they thumped Leeds.
As for solving or fixing our defence and midfield, maybe it's not broken.
Smith suggested similar.
The balance in the centre midfield, Mings out of sorts, Cash getting exposed.
Conceding 7 in 2 games, something is not right.
Liverpool conceded seven in one game. Their defence must be shite.
Van Dyke apart - it is!
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We beat Leicester, they thumped Leeds.
As for solving or fixing our defence and midfield, maybe it's not broken.
Smith suggested similar.
The balance in the centre midfield, Mings out of sorts, Cash getting exposed.
Conceding 7 in 2 games, something is not right.
Liverpool conceded seven in one game. Their defence must be shite.
Van Dyke apart - it is!
Trent Alexander-Arnold, Joe Gomez, Andy Robertson are all shite then? Okay.
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We beat Leicester, they thumped Leeds.
As for solving or fixing our defence and midfield, maybe it's not broken.
Smith suggested similar.
The balance in the centre midfield, Mings out of sorts, Cash getting exposed.
Conceding 7 in 2 games, something is not right.
Liverpool conceded seven in one game. Their defence must be shite.
Van Dyke apart - it is!
Trent Alexander-Arnold, Joe Gomez, Andy Robertson are all shite then? Okay.
Gomez is. A-A and Robertson are better gonig forward than they are in defence. VVD and Allison are the 2 reasons that Liverpool has been so good in the last year or so, when either or both are missing they look a lot weaker.
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he said it for me - okay?
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Liverpool's record over the last 2 seasons is incredible and it was built largely that defence. I hate Liverpool more than anyone except SH but you can't call their defenders shite imho.
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Liverpool's record over the last 2 seasons is incredible and it was built largely that defence. I hate Liverpool more than anyone except SH but you can't call their defenders shite imho.
Almost every great defence ever has been formed around a leader that makes it work, VVD is that and without him, or if he has a bad game, they don't look as solid. On top of that a top goalkeeper makes a huge difference to the confidence of the players in front of him and the drop in quality between their first and 2nd choice is massive, Alisson is one of the top 3-4 in the world, Adrian probably struggles to make the top 25 in the league, I can't think of any regular starter he'd be ahead of and people like Henderson and Heaton would certainly be ahead of him as reserve keepers.
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Liverpool's record over the last 2 seasons is incredible and it was built largely that defence. I hate Liverpool more than anyone except SH but you can't call their defenders shite imho.
Their defence was largely shite until they got VVD and Alisson in. Two super stars who transformed them overnight. Robertson is excellent too but I don't think as individual defenders, TAA or Gomes are anything special. TAA is a brilliant attacker alright but Harrison and Grealish exposed him horribly defensively already this season. Gomes is nothing special either and giving away goals for fun Mings style this season.
Perhaps it's being forced on him with injuries but Klopp isn't providing his defence with much cover at all this season. I don't see them keeping many clean sheets this season.
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Liverpool's record over the last 2 seasons is incredible and it was built largely that defence. I hate Liverpool more than anyone except SH but you can't call their defenders shite imho.
I hate them more than you. haha. Agree with your point though, mate. That defence has been incredible, and we were exceptional against them.
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Liverpool's record over the last 2 seasons is incredible and it was built largely that defence. I hate Liverpool more than anyone except SH but you can't call their defenders shite imho.
I hate them more than you. haha. Agree with your point though, mate. That defence has been incredible, and we were exceptional against them.
You must really really really hate them then 😁 And against us their arrogance was their undoing. Our team and our gameplan were superb and they couldn't accept that little old Aston Villa were humiliating them and carried on regardless. Bit like Nero carrying on playing his fiddle while Rome was burning down all around him. It was pure unbridled joy watching it unfold that day.
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Liverpool's record over the last 2 seasons is incredible and it was built largely that defence. I hate Liverpool more than anyone except SH but you can't call their defenders shite imho.
I hate them more than you. haha. Agree with your point though, mate. That defence has been incredible, and we were exceptional against them.
You must really really really hate them then 😁 And against us their arrogance was their undoing. Our team and our gameplan were superb and they couldn't accept that little old Aston Villa were humiliating them and carried on regardless. Bit like Nero carrying on playing his fiddle while Rome was burning down all around him. It was pure unbridled joy watching it unfold that day.
Utterly wonderful! Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch!
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Liverpool's record over the last 2 seasons is incredible and it was built largely that defence. I hate Liverpool more than anyone except SH but you can't call their defenders shite imho.
I hate them more than you. haha. Agree with your point though, mate. That defence has been incredible, and we were exceptional against them.
You must really really really hate them then 😁 And against us their arrogance was their undoing. Our team and our gameplan were superb and they couldn't accept that little old Aston Villa were humiliating them and carried on regardless. Bit like Nero carrying on playing his fiddle while Rome was burning down all around him. It was pure unbridled joy watching it unfold that day.
Utterly wonderful! Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch!
I'd just like to say that I hate them more than both of you.
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Liverpool's record over the last 2 seasons is incredible and it was built largely that defence. I hate Liverpool more than anyone except SH but you can't call their defenders shite imho.
I hate them more than you. haha. Agree with your point though, mate. That defence has been incredible, and we were exceptional against them.
You must really really really hate them then 😁 And against us their arrogance was their undoing. Our team and our gameplan were superb and they couldn't accept that little old Aston Villa were humiliating them and carried on regardless. Bit like Nero carrying on playing his fiddle while Rome was burning down all around him. It was pure unbridled joy watching it unfold that day.
Utterly wonderful! Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch!
I'd just like to say that I hate them more than both of you.
:)