Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 09:56:49 PM
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Player ratings
Martínez 0
Cash 1
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trézéguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0
Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
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Player ratings
Martínez 0
Cash 1
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trézéguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0
Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
A generous appraisal.
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We're probably not going to win the League.
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I had a feeling this would happen. I was fearfull but optimistic in the match thread but to be honest we were second best everywhere tonight.
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Very generous Mr Shin. We got what we deserved. Dean Smith also a -5 for me. Tactically destroyed. What a terrible way to enter the weekend.
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For all Smith's excellent tactics against liverpool he had no answer to Leeds tonight.
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Smith got absolutely destroyed by Bielsa, hopefully he learns from it. Right it the fuck off quickly and move on.
12 out of 15 points is beyong anybodies expectations.
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If there's something good to come out of it, maybe it's a need to improve the intensity of our game. I sensed that there was a bit of complacency; we got mugged, big time. Against Leicester we managed the game well; tonight we never started and conceded too much to the well-organised oppo.
Sounds like we gave Bamford far too much space and time.
Good test for Dean and the players: come back stronger.
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Reality check tonight, we had a few chances but Leeds were better than us all over the pitch. I have never rated Bamford but his finishing was exceptional tonight.
Leeds work hard and with plenty of skill, I think we were lucky to only lose by three tonight.
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They were quicker, sharper, and just better.
Once Jack missed his goal of the season chance, we fell apart.
Bamford pisses me off so much though, all the backbone of a jellyfish and then the c*** scores three.
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Ridiculous first post to the post match thread. Leeds deserves it and probably by more. In hindsight we should have been much tighter everywhere.
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Dreadful to a man really. An all round shocking display. Leeds are excellently prepared and coached and we set out as if we had no clue what we were up against. Start of the season had been great, but it’s a really poor night for Dean and his staff. We looked totally unprepared and worse than that didn’t do anything to change it once it was clear we were struggling.
Really bad and all of them should reflect on that.
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Not too down.had to happen sooner or later. I thought Leicester would do us. How do you come back from that?
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Thank god we've got 12 points already. Don't think our midfield got anywhere near theirs and never got a foot in. Impressed with their pressing and fast movement
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Our build up play looked so lethargic compared to theirs. They won the ball back far too easily.
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Our run-in isn't too bad, aside from Arsenal.
Make it right, get some points.
Fuck this one, onto the next.
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Would love Bielsa in charge of Villa.
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Crap performance and got what we deserved. Take it on board, look at the fuck ups again, and onto the next match.
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Leeds were good. Their shape and work rate made us look leggy and out of ideas by the end.
I would have put Nakamba on for Trez after 60 but it’s easy with hindsight.
In and amongst some utter Leeds wankfest commentary Savage made a good point about us possibly having one too many attack minded players against a team with that level of work rate.
Cash and Konsa were good. Mings lost the plot a bit. Grealish, one magic run aside, had his worst game for a while. McGinn looked slightly off the pace, and I’m still not totally convinced by Watkins.
But one bad game doesn’t ruin our start, I think leeds are a as good side.
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We didn't come out second half, didn't compete, they wanted it more and played fearlessly and hard, problem we have now is and more importantly, will other sides looking at this say '' oh yes, that's the Villa we know''. or do we respond.
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We got schooled tonight. I had a feeling they'd beat us but not like that. Only positive is it could have been a cricket score.
We go again.
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That reminded me of the 0-3 home defeat to Wimbledon all those years ago.
In form, looking good, and then bosh!
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Oh and as I said on the match thread anyone who posts something suggesting a player is rubbish just before they play Villa should face a temporary ban!
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Everyone who knows anything about football at the top level these days knows that the best teams attack in patterns that owe a fuck of a lot to Bielsa. Tonight we saw a Bielsa team doing just that, and it paying off despite relatively modest resources (Bamford a star? No Kalvin Phillips?), while their more expensive opponents ran around like a bunch of strangers, reliant on individuals to do the unexpected rather than working together to produce it.
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Sometimes you just have to accept you've been beaten by a better team on the night. Disappointing performances from some of our higher profile players - McGinn, Barkley, Mings - especially the former whose backside was really 'found out'!
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Crouch just said the fullbacks were hung out to dry, which is true.
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Suspected this might happen, Wimbledon at home 1990 anyone?
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This was going to happen at some point and maybe we can learn from it. What matters is how we respond against Southampton.
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Sad to see no reaction from us after they scored. All we did was throw Traore on and hope for the best.
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Crouch just said the fullbacks were hung out to dry, which is true.
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Leeds looked shite and got sussed by Wolves in the week, Monty. It worked out for them today, that's it.
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Leeds almost played us at our own game - we decided not to press as we've done season to date, maybe not to get exposed on the break...but we got exposed on the break.
El Ghazi will be waiting in the car park for Bamford to come out.
Off to Leeds tomorrow to see junior who's at Beckett doing her MA. Wish me luck.
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It was inevitable, we were not going from scrapping to stay up to winning the league.
Leeds out passed us, out ran us and out thought us.
We knew exacctly what their plan was and we let them play it.
some dredfull peformances all across the pitch, maybe Cash who was run ragged tried the hardest but had little back up.
sobering us up for the next outing
As an aside, why is there a downer on here about Bamford, scored a hat trick and seemed decent to me.
The bench as has been said does little to inspire and Tarore was caught up in the Malaise when he came on
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Next five games
Southampton H
Arsenal A
Brighton H
West Ham A
Newcastle H
More than enough opportunity to put tonight behind us. But we have be much better because if Bamford good tonight, then Ings is many steps above. We give him space we will be fucked.
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They play with an incredible intensity and we nowhere near matched them. Once we gave up playing from the back, they kept winning all the second balls. Cash had a fantastic game but had to do the work of two players as did Targett. It was a top performance by Leeds and we were lucky it was only three.
Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and move on.
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Also anybody who doesn’t rate Bielsa - look at that Leeds team and ask yourself how many players you’d swap into our team. Bielsa’s coaching is why Leeds are where they are, he’s doing an exceptional job.
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We were looking better just before they scored the first and then we caved in. Leeds were good, but a few of our players let their heads drop.
It reminded me of performances last season where we defended narrowly and invited crosses in and the manager didn't react. The full backs received little protection.
With Leeds committing players forward as well, we failed to exploit the space when we did turn over possession.
A very disappointing display, but obviously 12 points is a great return so far. A bit of a cliche, but the acid test is how we bounce back next week.
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Whether we like them or not they're a good team who've quickly adapted to demands of top level football. We saw tonight why they scored 3 at Liverpool and got a draw v Man. City.
Still dosen't excuse that shocker of a second half (and the 1st wasn't great either).
Leeds won't be far off finishing top half so finishing above them will represent a pretty good season imo.
Up to us to show some balls and turn up and compete next weekend as it would criminal to go on a long winless run now given the good stuff we've shown so far this season.
Bad defeats are happening every week in premier league this season, tonight was our turn to get a rodgering.
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horrible to watch. passed off the park. Harrison, costa and Bamford ripped us a new one. especially poor from mings, mcginn, targett and watkins
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Leeds looked shite and got sussed by Wolves
They looked pretty good first half, then Wolves adjusted tactically which we didn’t tonight
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Most important thing from tonight is to learn from it.
As shit as tonight was, all of us would have been delighted with 12 points from 5 games before the season started. Bielsa did well but until his side sticks 7 past Liverpool then he's just a shit Dean Smith.
Now let's smash the shite out of Southampton.
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We had no answer to the way they played. Some awful individual performances out there. No idea why Smith could not see what was happening.
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Leeds looked shite and got sussed by Wolves in the week, Monty. It worked out for them today, that's it.
I'm not saying they're elite, but they try and play elite football despite the players they've got. Sometimes it will work better than others, it's not like they've got Busquets and Lewandowski in there, but we clearly didn't have the plans they had and it was starkly obvious.
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Well played Leeds, they played in very predictable way they were brilliant down the flanks, I’m sure our coaching staff prepared the players for this but we didn’t have a plan B when they were constantly getting round the back. I think it would have been a very brave manager to change it radically after 4 straight wins, I think we will learn a lot from this 12 from 15 UTV
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Had Jack scored or better passed to an open Ollie after that spectacular run this game would have been so different. It’s harsh to criticize him after that run, but that decision there, in isolation might have decided the game, or certainly what could have happened after. And he did much the same in the game vs Leicester. He has to be better at getting others involved at the key moments. If he tries to do it all alone we will be back where we were last season. It cannot be all about Jack.
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Humbled tonight. They had more of everything, desire, pace, better decision making, busting a gut to get behind the ball in the 95 minute. We were crap and I hope we are not hauled back in to the crap that we saw last season. I still think we should have signed a strong midfielder but that's the Smith way. We were too deep for long period and our midfield need to introduce themselves to each other. Poor all round, could have been different had Grealish scored earlier on. 12 from 15, I'll take that. Be good to get 9 from the next 15.
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Memories of 1991 when they stuffed us 4-1 on telly.Lee Chapman.
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Had Jack scored or better passed to an open Ollie after that spectacular run this game would have been so different. It’s harsh to criticize him after that run, but that decision there, in isolation might have decided the game, or certainly what could have happened after. And he did much the same in the game vs Leicester. He has to be better at getting others involved at the key moments. If he tries to do it all alone we will be back where we were last season. It cannot be all about Jack.
Did the same at Leicester when there was a better option. Needs to make the pass more.
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Cash defensively is a serious concern. The Liverpool game highlighted it as well.
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Player ratings
Martínez 0
CasPlayer ratings
Martínez 0
Cash 1
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trézéguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0
Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trézéguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0
Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
And the purpose of this ridiculous post is...???
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Shit that we didn't try and mix it up / try something different, three at the back or 2 up top.
Only one sub used
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So as people can show they don't understand black humour and also lack the basic ability to quote a post correctly.
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It was inevitable, we were not going from scrapping to stay up to winning the league.
Leeds out passed us, out ran us and out thought us.
We knew exacctly what their plan was and we let them play it.
some dredfull peformances all across the pitch, maybe Cash who was run ragged tried the hardest but had little back up.
sobering us up for the next outing
As an aside, why is there a downer on here about Bamford, scored a hat trick and seemed decent to me.
The bench as has been said does little to inspire and Tarore was caught up in the Malaise when he came on
Couldn't agree more with your Bamford comment. Proved himself to be a very good footballer tonight and came over well in his post-match interview.
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Disappointing but sometimes you get outplayed by a better team on the day. The key is to respond in the next one.
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Cash defensively is a serious concern. The Liverpool game highlighted it as well.
You must be joking. They were coming at him in waves down their left.
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Cash defensively is a serious concern. The Liverpool game highlighted it as well.
I presume you are being sarcastic? Hung out to dry by the lazy fecker Trezeguet. Cash was the only who did his job properly in defence.
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This was going to happen at some point and maybe we can learn from it. What matters is how we respond against Southampton.
Yeah exactly. I said in the match thread no changes make them go and put it right.
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So as people can show they don't understand black humour and also lack the basic ability to quote a post correctly.
Fair play...I feel a bit pissed off so jumped the gun...soz
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We were neutered by Bielsa.
Deano et al had no response. The poor tactical performance translated into languid, sloppy play from the team, reminiscent of last season pre-lockdown. Felt sorry for Matty Cash by the end.
"We go again"™
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First half I thought we shaded it, however the warning signs were there.
Second half Bamford goes down screaming like his careers over 2mins later he bangs one in. Then a couple more. The third you could see the fear of the defenders, we had 3 around him.
Leeds attack like aircraft in formation just before full time they had 6 players charging at Villa in a line across the pitch
The international break really destroyed our momentum we had to start with that eleven that had done so well previously, on paper we win this easily but we didn't match their 100mph work rate and relentlessness.
Grealish nearly scores goal of the century, aside from that in the 2nd half was ineffective along with Barkley, McGinn and Watkins. Mings seemed to go on a mad one and start charging all over the pitch after the 3rd.
Back down to earth with a bump.
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Next five games
Southampton H
Arsenal A
Brighton H
West Ham A
Newcastle H
More than enough opportunity to put tonight behind us. But we have be much better because if Bamford good tonight, then Ings is many steps above. We give him space we will be fucked.
Southampton really had our number in the two games last season, we were never in either despite only being 1 down until last minute at St Marys.
In a funny way I'm more worried about that than Arsenal away where we'll get space and chances on counter attack.
Southampton will be really good yardstick for what our team mentality will be this season.
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Overloaded out wide and Smith didn’t have an answer. That said shockingly bad all over the pitch. Cash and Konsa about the only highlights.
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The really worrying thing was at 0-2 down, we threw in the towel all over the pitch. Mings (arguably our worst player tonight) trotting up the pitch like some kind of superstar. Hoofing the ball back to Leeds at every opportunity. Theres a horrible soft centre still there, as that could have been any score for a finish tonight. Leeds breaking six on three on us in the 92nd minute said it all.
Tactically, completely destroyed and the old Smith failings there for all to see with his in-game changes. Were were crying out for a tactical reshuffle but what he do. Like for like change, Traore for Trez with the net result we got even more torched on our right side. So many non performers tonight and the fact Smith didnt feel like hooking two of them cant be good for squad morale. For decisive in game changes, see Bielsa after 20 mins tonight.
Jack scores that worldly and maybe things would be different. But to be honest I dont think so as Leeds had our number in midfield particularly at that point. Smith's tactics of having McGinn and Barkley so far ahead of Luiz were horribly exposed. Luiz didnt have a chance, was crying out for McGinn to sit next to him or bring in Hourihane/Nakamba. I dont think we will get away with a midfield set up for much longer than includes McGinn, Barkley and Grealish so far ahead of the ball and making pitiful efforts to get it back.
Martinez 7 - dont think he could have done more with the second, looked sharp in general
Cash 4 - battled but destroyed lets be honest against an outstanding Harrison
Konsa 7 - our best defender by a long way, covering for Cash as best he could all night
Mings 3 - hopeless, timber legs stuck in the ground while Bamford embarrassingly turned onto his left foot and passed the third in. Terrible for all three goals actually.
Targett 4 - not my favourite player by any stretch but was doing ok until getting overrun into the second half, no support from Grealish
Trez 4 - anonymous with the ball but we sure did miss his graft without the ball when he went off
Luiz 6 - did his best but hopelessly outnumbered, sold down the river by Smith's tactics
McGinn 4 - anonymous for most of the game, unfortunately was up against superior athletes tonight and it showed
Barkley 3 - absolutely useless and should have been subbed immediately after his efforts to stop their second goal
Grealish 6 - should have had a peno and had two kicked off the line but lost the ball a lot tonight and his effort without the ball were risible, pathetic yellow card too
Watkins 4 - really poor in first half when he got lots of possession, made no impact in the second but we stopped playing at that point
Traore 3 - yikes, a bit of a horror show. looked miles off the pace but balance of team was totally wrong
We go again I guess
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Shit that we didn't try and mix it up / try something different, three at the back or 2 up top.
Only one sub used
Should've put Davis on at 1 down.
Mind you we give Bamford all the stick in the world and he's probably stuck in around 50 goals since Kienan last got one in the league!
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No real reason we shouldn't be on at least 19 points after 10 games, i'll have some of that.
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2nd after 5 games.
Disappoint result but overall still doing better than expected.
But that was a very poor second half. Bielsa made the right substitution for them as they were lucky not to be down to 10.
They were faster and appeared hungrier. We gave their players too much time whilst they gave us none.
A lesson to be learned. Let's not give in though, so far this season on results we're the second best team. Tonight was bad night, we'll come, again.
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I thought the grass looked shorter than for the Liverpool game.
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Had bad vibes about this one and sadly proved well founded. Far too complacent, but I suppose we were due a bad one if you consider end of last season and start of this. Write it off, improvement v Southampton I suggest is likely.
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That to a large extent was down to Dean Smith, we were getting killed on the flanks and he did nothing. Bielsa took a player off in the first half, Dean would never do that. We really needed to go more defensive just as Wolves did as they can only play one way, we were over run first half but i did expect us to improve as the game went on. Jack had a very poor game and without him firing we suffer.
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It was inevitable, we were not going from scrapping to stay up to winning the league.
Leeds out passed us, out ran us and out thought us.
We knew exacctly what their plan was and we let them play it.
some dredfull peformances all across the pitch, maybe Cash who was run ragged tried the hardest but had little back up.
sobering us up for the next outing
As an aside, why is there a downer on here about Bamford, scored a hat trick and seemed decent to me.
The bench as has been said does little to inspire and Tarore was caught up in the Malaise when he came on
Couldn't agree more with your Bamford comment. Proved himself to be a very good footballer tonight and came over well in his post-match interview.
I'm not sure how to put it about Bamford he's just a twunt.
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Villa 7- Liverpool 2
Villa 0-Leeds 3
Treat triumph and disaster as imposters - the truth lies somewhere in between.
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Villa 7- Liverpool 2
Villa 0-Leeds 3
Treat triumph and disaster as imposters - the truth lies somewhere in between.
We won 7-5 on aggregate so fuck all teams that start with an L.
8-5 if we include Leicester. L clubs are our bitches.
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Cash defensively is a serious concern. The Liverpool game highlighted it as well.
I havent seen much of an improvement on Guilbert so far, I must say....
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Overloaded out wide and Smith didn’t have an answer. That said shockingly bad all over the pitch. Cash and Konsa about the only highlights.
I know he didn't have the best game and made some frustrating decisions, but we mustn't be totally spoiled - Jack did nearly score literally the best ever goal.
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We were looking better just before they scored the first and then we caved in. Leeds were good, but a few of our players let their heads drop.
Exactly this. At the point they scored, you would never have predicted a 0-3. It was disappointing the way we collapsed after conceding, though.
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Very even first half and we were on top first 10 mins of the 2nd and could/should have been ahead. But then the wheels fell off and we got slaughtered. It happens.
We were far better than some are saying on here but they ran over the top of us in the last half hour, we had no response. Bamford is a shithouse but he took his goals brilliantly.
Cash did well with little help, Martinez conceded 3 but did nothing wrong and Konsa looked assured again. The rest were off the pace and it showed.
Oh and Gabby, shut the feck up next time.
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We were never going to win every game. Shame it had to be those ******, but 37 wins will still be a decent season.
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Our last 2 league defeats have seen us collapse after going 1 down. Something that needs to be rectified.
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The really worrying thing was at 0-2 down, we threw in the towel all over the pitch. Mings (arguably our worst player tonight) trotting up the pitch like some kind of superstar. Hoofing the ball back to Leeds at every opportunity. Theres a horrible soft centre still there, as that could have been any score for a finish tonight. Leeds breaking six on three on us in the 92nd minute said it all.
Tactically, completely destroyed and the old Smith failings there for all to see with his in-game changes. Were were crying out for a tactical reshuffle but what he do. Like for like change, Traore for Trez with the net result we got even more torched on our right side. So many non performers tonight and the fact Smith didnt feel like hooking two of them cant be good for squad morale. For decisive in game changes, see Bielsa after 20 mins tonight.
Jack scores that worldly and maybe things would be different. But to be honest I dont think so as Leeds had our number in midfield particularly at that point. Smith's tactics of having McGinn and Barkley so far ahead of Luiz were horribly exposed. Luiz didnt have a chance, was crying out for McGinn to sit next to him or bring in Hourihane/Nakamba. I dont think we will get away with a midfield set up for much longer than includes McGinn, Barkley and Grealish so far ahead of the ball and making pitiful efforts to get it back.
Martinez 7 - dont think he could have done more with the second, looked sharp in general
Cash 4 - battled but destroyed lets be honest against an outstanding Harrison
Konsa 7 - our best defender by a long way, covering for Cash as best he could all night
Mings 3 - hopeless, timber legs stuck in the ground while Bamford embarrassingly turned onto his left foot and passed the third in. Terrible for all three goals actually.
Targett 4 - not my favourite player by any stretch but was doing ok until getting overrun into the second half, no support from Grealish
Trez 4 - anonymous with the ball but we sure did miss his graft without the ball when he went off
Luiz 6 - did his best but hopelessly outnumbered, sold down the river by Smith's tactics
McGinn 4 - anonymous for most of the game, unfortunately was up against superior athletes tonight and it showed
Barkley 3 - absolutely useless and should have been subbed immediately after his efforts to stop their second goal
Grealish 6 - should have had a peno and had two kicked off the line but lost the ball a lot tonight and his effort without the ball were risible, pathetic yellow card too
Watkins 4 - really poor in first half when he got lots of possession, made no impact in the second but we stopped playing at that point
Traore 3 - yikes, a bit of a horror show. looked miles off the pace but balance of team was totally wrong
We go again I guess
This summed up the game for me.
A shit show
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To be fair that was pretty even until the hour mark and first goal was going to dictate how the game went. We started the second half well and just looked to be getting on top when they scored. After that we fell apart, and they could see it and grew in confidence and energy. Doesn't say much for our resilience when going behind, and something Dean needs to work on.
Ultimately Leeds thoroughly deserved t although I hate Bamford even more after that theatrical penalty appeal.
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They were great, fair play a deserved easy win
Bielsa is a fantastic coach, negated Jack really well. Sometimes you just accept the defeat and the fact you’ve been done fair and square and move on.
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I thought the grass looked shorter than for the Liverpool game.
Good point.
We need more grass; longer and lusher. Break out the hydroponic lamps and sprinklers.
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Our last 2 league defeats have seen us collapse after going 1 down. Something that needs to be rectified.
If we are undefeated in the eight games inbetween each time though we will probably be alright.
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Our last 2 league defeats have seen us collapse after going 1 down. Something that needs to be rectified.
The good thing is after Man U we came back much better until tonight. So we have to do the same again. Next 5 games gives us a huge opportunity to put things right very quickly.
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They were great, fair play a deserved easy win
Bielsa is a fantastic coach, negated Jack really well. Sometimes you just accept the defeat and the fact you’ve been done fair and square and move on.
This is how I feel. Nothing wrong with getting bested by Marcelo Bielsa.
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It was bad all round, but manager and players both take plenty of blame. We set up wrong and didn’t respond, but equally players performed well below their best.
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27 Shots says it all, this is going back to the numbers of last season. The midfield were dreadful and Dean just stood and watched it happen, I don't know why he never changed things. That is the first time we have gone behind and the reaction was not good to see.
The most frustrating thing for me is the narrow back 4 and trying to deny space through the middle, Leeds are all about width and we played into their hands. We competed first half but some of the defending was last ditch stuff. He could have pushed the back 4 higher up the pitch and tried to compress the midfield to help us but the worrying thing for me was how isolated Ollie was in the second half. If you are going to play Jack, Ross and SJM bombing forward then you have to have another holding midfield player in there. Dougie was overrun time and time again.
Still 12 points on the board after 5 games, I will have a bit of that after last year.
UTV
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Bielsa is a quality manager. Bamford is still a prick for what he did the other season, regardless of the hat-trick. Leeds were simply better.
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Our last 2 league defeats have seen us collapse after going 1 down. Something that needs to be rectified.
Yep good point. Need to respond a lot better to adversity.
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I’d agree with those saying that it was fairly even for 55 minutes. Both team had probably three/four decent chances at that point and the key first goal could have gone either way. Our reaction to conceding was disappointing though. Have to say that Leeds were excellent from the goal onwards and that performance would see off several others teams as well.
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Klopp and some of the best players around were the same a few weeks ago. All seemed absolutely clueless to stop what was happening and made no tactical changes. It happens. Hopefully not very often to us.
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Dean can learn a lot from Bielsa tonight and I hope he does.
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Should have bought Traore on, he’d have changed the game I reckon
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I think people are being unfair on McGinn - he played really well first half but wasn't alone in losing it second half. The whole midfield went missing for about 20 minutes.
For all Trezeguet's "putting in shifts" it's noticeable how a lot of the commentators and pundits were saying Cash was left stranded two against one far too often- showed several examples where Trez failed to track Alioski who kept overlapping Harrison down our right flank. But ditto with Grealish down our left flank.
I thought Grealish, by his standards, was poor tonight - great individual run but should either have shot sooner or played Watkins in - wide open at the far post. Otherwise ran up a load of blind alleys and wasn't incisive enough.
And our defenders allowing Bamtwat time and space to go onto his left foot for goals two and three was garbage.
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Should have bought Traore on, he’d have changed the game I reckon
He was brought on.
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Some key decisions went against us but ultimately we were second best on the night.
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They were great, fair play a deserved easy win
Bielsa is a fantastic coach, negated Jack really well. Sometimes you just accept the defeat and the fact you’ve been done fair and square and move on.
This is how I feel. Nothing wrong with getting bested by Marcelo Bielsa.
it was the nature of the defeat and our reaction to being over run and conceding the first goal that I have a problem with.
Some really poor performances out there as well.
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Should have bought Traore on, he’d have changed the game I reckon
He was brought on.
Think he knows that
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A chastening experience, I'd settle for top 4 now.
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Should have bought Traore on, he’d have changed the game I reckon
He was brought on.
I think he was being sarcastic
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First half ended up being fairly even after a very strong start from them. Second half, they came out firing, there was a 5 minute superstar advert interlude where Grealish literally nearly scored the goal of any season, before they resumed their dominance.
I actually thought McGinn had a decent 1sr half, but our problems in the second half completely stemmed from the centre of midfield, where McGinn, barklay and luiz were largely anonymous. The full backs were too narrow allowing Harrison and costa too much room, and that’s where the goals came from. Dean needed to pick up on that, and push them further forward, dropping luiz and McGinn deeper.
Grealish nearly scored goal of the century but otherwise was really well managed by Leeds and again held on to the ball too long. Any criticism of Watkins’s is harsh, I thought he ran the line well.
Finally, it’s one game, we got battered, we have 12 out of 15. It’s a bit shit, but generally at this moment in time, it’s ok everything is cool and the gang
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The first half was amazing to watch but I thought Leeds would run out of steam. Sadly it was us that did. I do hate Leeds, but they were brilliant. You can’t take that away from them.
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Should have bought Traore on, he’d have changed the game I reckon
He was brought on.
I think he was being sarcastic
This may be unfair so early in the season, but he's the one signing I am doubtful about. However, he hasn't showed much in the limited time so far to dissuade me
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As soon as BT put the 'as it stands table' up on the telly box, we capitulated. Nose bleeds all over the pitch. Fair result, shame it was the cheating fucker who got them their goals but that's life. You learn more from your defeats than you do from your wins.
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
We gifted them the ball so many times tonight that only losing 0-3 is somewhat of a let off from the hammering that could've easily happened. We were very poor, but in all honestly we were due a loss anyway.
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A whoosh moment, then. Sorry.
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Agree
Shit happens, lets prepare and move on.
Still worried about our ability to change games from the bench as options are limited.
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Should have bought Traore on, he’d have changed the game I reckon
He was brought on.
I think he was being sarcastic
This may be unfair so early in the season, but he's the one signing I am doubtful about. However, he hasn't showed much in the limited time so far to dissuade me
He’s played 42 minutes in the league. I reckon we might need to give him a bit more time.
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When we are bad, we are really bad and the Barkley's and McGinn's are anonymous. We only know one way of playing and that will be our undoing time and again. However, we have five piss easy games ahead of us. Win them all.
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That was disappointing. Agree that thought it was even until their goal but we went to absolute pieces from there. Fucking hate Leeds so tough one to take.
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
We gifted them the ball so many times tonight that only losing 0-3 is somewhat of a let off from the hammering that could've easily happened. We were very poor, but in all honestly we were due a loss anyway.
Whatever about his horror pass, Barkley's efforts to stop Leeds from that point on were an absolute disgrace. Should have warranted an immediate substitution and an absolute torching in the dressing room afterwards. Mistakes happen but his lack of effort was completely unacceptable.
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I think that was first time we’ve been behind this season and we didn’t cope with it well.
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Can’t remember Watkins getting any change out of their CB’s either even when we were on top. Same with Barkley.
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
We gifted them the ball so many times tonight that only losing 0-3 is somewhat of a let off from the hammering that could've easily happened. We were very poor, but in all honestly we were due a loss anyway.
Berkeley pass for their first goal was the game changer, he got even worse after that.
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Thought Leeds were superb tonight totally outplayed and out fought us, they never once rested on their laurels, even when they were 3 up, they just kept going forward, look at their attack in the last minute of the match, deserve all the plaudits they are getting. I was just grateful it wasn't a heavier defeat.
Dean can't think much of his bench, losing 3 nil and only brings one player on. Still looking on the plus side, it's only one defeat in 5 games, let's hope we will come back against Southampton.
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
We gifted them the ball so many times tonight that only losing 0-3 is somewhat of a let off from the hammering that could've easily happened. We were very poor, but in all honestly we were due a loss anyway.
Whatever about his horror pass, Barkley's efforts to stop Leeds from that point on were an absolute disgrace. Should have warranted an immediate substitution and an absolute torching in the dressing room afterwards. Mistakes happen but his lack of effort was completely unacceptable.
Agree
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That’s why Barkley lost his place at Chelsea, inconsistency. He’s been great in his first 2 games but looked poor tonight.
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I’m a tiny little bit worried about Watkins. He was fine today, made a decent first of his chances. But he struggles to impose himself on defenders which will cause us issues against lower half teams and he still seems a bit short on confidence (strangely, after his hat trick) hence all the extra touches.
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Results like this happen, Southampton now becomes a very pivotal game for the momentum of our season.
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In his defence, I don't think Barkley (or Jack for that matter) look 100% fit.
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Fair play to Leeds, they played us off the park tonight. They were better all over the pitch but as others have said, I worry about our strength in depth . In particular midfield is light , we need to have the players able to turn to plan b if some players are having an off night. Neither Hourihane or Nakamba would have made a difference tonight. Where was Ramsey ? Not sure if he was on the bench.
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The only good thing about tonight is that we didn’t have to go.
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Player ratings
Martínez 0
Cash 1
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trézéguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0
Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
We have 12/15 points and Leeds were superb tonight. Maybe reconsider when you’ve calmed down.
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Maybe post after reading more comments.
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.
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Lowlights for anyone interested
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12112751
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Bear in mind as well, Leeds had 3 key players out, including their best player. They reshuffled the whole team to plug the gap then had to reshuffle it again when his replacement looked like he was going to get sent off.
That’s the kind of flexibility of thought and tactical pragmatism that smith just lacks.
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First half very even overall. Pity Jack's shot was cleared off the line. Goals change games as we found out......
..
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That’s why Barkley lost his place at Chelsea, inconsistency. He’s been great in his first 2 games but looked poor tonight.
He had the air of a moments player in last two games, didn't think he impacted game much v Leicester generally but not complaining he won the game.
Still we criticise Hourihane for going missing constantly v the high press so bit concerning a high calibre midfielder also massively struggled.
If he's not fully fit as he was saying after Leicester game then I'd leave him on the bench next weekend unless Chelsea have put one of these penalty clauses in the deal for him not starting.
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Our inability to respond to adversity was a big problem last year. We’ve had a great start to this season, but with the result tonight we still need to show we know how to tactically respond to games.
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Maybe post after reading more comments.
I agree with him, Those scores are just silly, 1s and 0s? Just an over reaction
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Fucking hell
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Maybe post after reading more comments.
I agree with him, Those scores are just silly, 1s and 0s? Just an over reaction
Jeez! Some really literal people on here this evening.
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That reminded me of the 0-3 home defeat to Wimbledon all those years ago.
In form, looking good, and then bosh!
Funny that, that’s exactly what I thought
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Goals change games, if Grealish or Konsa scores we could have quite easily gone over the top of them. I agree that our reaction to going behind was the greatest concern. The general performance up until then was fine though.
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Tonight was desperately disappointing - really bad - and it’s one we’ll have to suffer from a bit. But it presents an opportunity for the players and management to learn about themselves. Principally we need to find a way of being much better and responding better when things don’t go our way - that’s both from a tactical and an attitude point of view. Use the pain of tonight to come back a better and more rounded team Villa.
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Fucking hell
😂
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That was shit on so many levels. I jokingly said to my mate who supports Leeds on the way to the pub that it would be the most Villa thing ever to lose 3-0 to Leeds and a Bamford hat trick. I never thought for a second it would come true. Out thought, and out fought, and despite the money spent, we've only got one substitution that's worth making in Traore for Trez.
Mings had one of his really, really bad games when he looks absolutely nowhere near as good as thinks he is.
After a steady start to the season Targett was back to being a load of old wank.
The midfield was shit, and in not passing to Ollie at the end of the run, Jack has given Southgate and all the other twats ammo for the rest of forever. That was the end of his England career, right there.
After the first half, I thought we'd get at them as they tired, but letting Patrick fucking Bamford destroy you and your going top dream really is a bit much.
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Oh and Gabby, shut the feck up next time.
Think someone needs to take Gabby's spade off him. He's digging one hell of a hole for himself.
Bamford mentioned it in his post match interview. Certainly wouldn't be surprised if Bielsa had that pinned on the dressing room wall.
The best team won, no doubt. Alarming that some of our bad habits from pre-lockdown resurfaced however.
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If I had a grand for every brain cell in Agbonlahor's skull, my kids would qualify for free school meals.
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The danger signs were all there in the first half. Leeds were playing through us far too easily and Harrison and Alioski were having their way with us down their left.
I sometimes wish that Dean could sniff danger before it bites us. What should he have done with the players available on the bench? Fair question. Replace Trezeguet with Nakamba and stiffen the midfield to cut out the supply lines maybe?
I thought that Trez offered nothing attacking wise or defensively tonight but that's not at all to say that he was to blame for this. He's been decent so far and I'd play him against Southampton.
Same team. Make up for this aberration should be the message.
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We got beat by the better team on the night. It’s happened to all the top teams this season ( and I don’t include us in that list, yet) what happens in our next match is the test and will show us how much we have progressed this season
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I will never get why any player, past or present, pipes up with shite like that just before a game. It rarely ends well by full time.
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I will never get why any player, past or present, pipes up with shite like that just before a game. It rarely ends well by full time.
In his case, its attention seeking, along with not being the sharpest knife in the drawer
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Martinez 7 - dont think he could have done more with the second, looked sharp in general
Cash 4 - battled but destroyed lets be honest against an outstanding Harrison
Konsa 7 - our best defender by a long way, covering for Cash as best he could all night
Mings 3 - hopeless, timber legs stuck in the ground while Bamford embarrassingly turned onto his left foot and passed the third in. Terrible for all three goals actually.
Targett 4 - not my favourite player by any stretch but was doing ok until getting overrun into the second half, no support from Grealish
Trez 4 - anonymous with the ball but we sure did miss his graft without the ball when he went off
Luiz 6 - did his best but hopelessly outnumbered, sold down the river by Smith's tactics
McGinn 4 - anonymous for most of the game, unfortunately was up against superior athletes tonight and it showed
Barkley 3 - absolutely useless and should have been subbed immediately after his efforts to stop their second goal
Grealish 6 - should have had a peno and had two kicked off the line but lost the ball a lot tonight and his effort without the ball were risible, pathetic yellow card too
Watkins 4 - really poor in first half when he got lots of possession, made no impact in the second but we stopped playing at that point
Traore 3 - yikes, a bit of a horror show. looked miles off the pace but balance of team was totally wrong
We go again I guess
I think those scores are about right. I think I'd give Mings a 2 though, he was dreadful, and Jack a 4 or a 5. I don't think Cash was that bad, as he had no help from Trez, so he'd get a 5.
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They did to us what we did to Liverpool. Probably should have been 5-6. We were really naive today and I don't think we paid them enough respect. We were ill-disciplined in our pressing. We left acres between our midfield and defence.
Our attackers had an offer day as far as decision making sadly. It's been something that's often been tied to Barclay, that his decision making isn't great. To a lesser extent they used to say it about Jack, as well as him dwelling on it too long some times. Those two in particular were wasteful. Jack may almost have scored a wonder goal but a simple pass to Ollie would probably have put us 1-0 at the time.
We were silly at teams. Flicks here, ambitious passing (that didn't come off, and some games it just doesnt). We went 4 wins from 4 and thought we were Barcelona. Back heels and flicks in our own half. Everyone wants to run through 3-4 players.
We made Bamford look like the love child of Van Basten and Bergkamp ffs. We needed to get deeper, close off the space but didn't. They had acres to play with.
Frustrating. I felt sorry for Watkins. He worked hard, was lively, but should have been played through a few times far earlier. A disappointing game for Jack. Douglas too was disappointingly below par, and this was a game he needed to be sitting a lot deeper.
I think also from Deans side, whilst he didn't address these issues during the game, which was foolish (but to be honest, systematic of modern prem management in all honesty) I think in retrospect we might have benefited from resting one or two. We were leggy. Second to everything. Every stretched header they had still seemed to find a teammate. Every ricochet went to a Leeds player. We also had no patience either, to just sometimes slow the game and take their sting out a bit. We were always looking forward quickly, without the same cohesion we've had so far this season.
Hopefully a one off.
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Alluding to a reason we may have lost was down to an ex player talking shite on a platform like talkshte is a good grief moment.
If every time an ex player of Man Ure commented on their opposition before a game and it was published on the away dressing room wall, they would have been relegated years ago.
I recall Trevor Sinclair giving Leicester no chance weeks ago at Man City.
We were second best end of and had zero to do with Gabby’s comments.
We have had a great start, we move on and beat Soton.
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I will never get why any player, past or present, pipes up with shite like that just before a game. It rarely ends well by full time.
In his case, its attention seeking, along with not being the sharpest knife in the drawer
Well he's getting some attention...
https://twitter.com/LUFC/status/1319744982362849280
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Isn't he employed by Talksport now? So it's his job to generate attention for the station, which he seems to have done.
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My wife organised a last supper with a few friends tonight, so I ended up in the kitchen all day.
Villa win or draw to go top.... We've been here before.
It would be those scrotes.
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Getting attention from Leeds fans on Twitter is like a turkey getting attention from Bernard Mathews.
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We were bound to lose at some point. Onwards and upwards
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.
The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.
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Fucking hell
Sorry I’m a bit pissed and missing the point?
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.
The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.
Hourihane wouldn't have made a difference tonight. He'd have been passed through like the rest of the team tonight.
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.
The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.
Hourihane wouldn't have made a difference tonight. He'd have been passed through like the rest of the team tonight.
Maybe so but if nothing else hooking Barkley after his pathetic effort to stop the Leeds second goal might have laid down a marker or two. I thought Hourihane should have come in for Trez soon after half time and sat in next to Luiz with McGinn moving over.
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I would have brought Nakamba and Hourihane on in the second half frankly Barclay was a passenger from the kick off and McGinn didn’t leave the changing room at half time.
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Maybe so but if nothing else hooking Barkley after his pathetic effort to stop the Leeds second goal might have laid down a marker or two. I thought Hourihane should have come in for Trez soon after half time and sat in next to Luiz with McGinn moving over.
What was Barkley doing for the second, he just jogs around in a sort of vague, half-hearted fashion then wafts his foot nowhere near the ball. Odd.
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Agbonlahor is a prick, and has been for ages. We were crap tonight, but haven't been for awhile.
Onwards to the Southampton game where the players need to play alot better than they did this evening.
Fuck Leeds, but they were better than us tonight.
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.
The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.
Barkley said himself after Leicester he was barely fit to start that game so imagine he wasn't 100% tonight and he certainly flagged when we were chasing the game.
You never know with loan deals. Plenty of clubs have penalty clauses if their player is benched but that's mainly for young players and given we've paid a loan fee of around 11m I'd like to think there's no nonsense clause like that.
I'd leave him out next weekend. We seem to have this weird view any big name player we sign should play evey single minute of every game even if their leg is hanging off (McGinn in December last season). Wesley was also an example of this. Leeds signed Rodrigo for 30m and they left him as a sub for first 3-4 games so he could adapt to the style.
Our squad may not be that great but we simply have to use it this season otherwise we will hit the wall just at the wrong time.
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I'm resigned to the fact that my stepdaughter is going to marry Patrick Bamford.
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Reality check. There was too much hoorah anyway, too much expectation. Let them learn from it, and we go again. Pitty it was Leeds but it's done. Let's put it down to Leeds having an exceptional and highly rated manager who out thought Dean and move on. We're still second, and a third of our way to safety. Only Liverpool can move above us on points and we'll still have a game in hand if they do.
Utv.
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What stood out for me was their one touch play, moving the ball quickly. As good as Jack usually is, he tends to hang on to the ball for too long. Barkley looks like a player carrying an injury, hasn't moved as well the last two games.
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We're 12 from 15.
No one watched cos its on PPV.
Leeds two years ago were better than most Prem sides and have only got better.
Bielsa is a genius.
A game to learn from and move on.
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We're 12 from 15.
No one watched cos its on PPV.
Leeds two years ago were better than most Prem sides and have only got better.
Bielsa is a genius.
A game to learn from and move on.
I watched it on PPV but at the pub
Bielsa is a very good manager, genius I’m not sure
Leeds two years ago finished 13th with a different manager.
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Bear in mind as well, Leeds had 3 key players out, including their best player. They reshuffled the whole team to plug the gap then had to reshuffle it again when his replacement looked like he was going to get sent off.
That’s the kind of flexibility of thought and tactical pragmatism that smith just lacks.
Stop speaking sense, mate! Hope you're well pal. I had to be up at 6, and have to work 9-7. On a Saturday. In a foul mood because of Smith and his inept tactics.
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Leeds were great. They showed Trez isn’t up to the job.
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And Jack is world class
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Jiminy Christmas all these conclusions. Dean's tactics weren't so inept against Liverpool. Trez was up to the job against Robinson and Jota. Sure we have weaknesses which, on the day, matched up badly against a superbly coached team - well you could say the same about the champions the other week. Styles, tactics and obviously performances match up differently in different games, it happens.
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It was inevitable, we were not going from scrapping to stay up to winning the league.
Leeds out passed us, out ran us and out thought us.
We knew exacctly what their plan was and we let them play it.
some dredfull peformances all across the pitch, maybe Cash who was run ragged tried the hardest but had little back up.
sobering us up for the next outing
As an aside, why is there a downer on here about Bamford, scored a hat trick and seemed decent to me.
The bench as has been said does little to inspire and Tarore was caught up in the Malaise when he came on
It's because he's a nasty snide little cheating w*nker
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When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.
I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.
The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.
Should have hooked him for Nakamba
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It looked like Berkeley was playing with an injury if so and based on his performance he should have been off. We also needed to get some support to cash who was being ripped apart.
We did neither and paid the price,
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I thought we were ok first half and was optimistic at half time.
When they scored first I still thought we were well in the game but the second just caused us to fall apart.
If Grealish scores or Konsa's shot goes in it's a different game.
They were much the better side second half.
Not going to overreact here, onto the next.
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we were outclassed and out thought by Leeds. But for me, without spectators the game simply isn't real.
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we were outclassed and out thought by Leeds. But for me, without spectators the game simply isn't real.
Agree, apart from the Liverpool match. That was real.
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The ref did us no favours
Penalty on Jack
Should have been a second yellow and it looked like Bamford stamped on Mings when he tried to get a penalty.
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Sounded like we were well in the game until they scored. Bit disappointing heads seem to have dropped and the defending for the second and third goals wasn’t the best, but overall we’re ahead of expectations, to put it mildly, after 5 games. C’est la vie. On to the next game.
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As Dean said - we don’t get too high when things are going well, or too low when things are not.
It was a bad day at the office - it happens (and it happened to Liverpool two weeks back). In the bigger scheme of things, a wake up call that won’t be a bad thing if the players react in a positive way - we knew realistically we were not going to seriously compete top 6 this year so losses will come. Let’s remember how far we have come in general - overall we are further forward than we had a right to hope for 2 years ago.
And credit to Leeds - got it right and suspect they’ll finish mid table with us this year.
UTV
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Nope... it still hurts this morning.
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Nowhere near good enough.
Draw wine and move on. See how they respond to the set back
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Although Leeds had most of the possession we had the best chances up to the goal and looks the most likely to score. After that we capitulated far too easily. Loved that fabulous run by Jack but he has a moment in the area where he could have feinted left and slid it to Oli wide right. Instead he just ran into and closed down the space for both of them. I'm with Risso in that moment will be used by Southgate, Souness and all as why Jack " can't be trusted " by England.
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Let's have no more games on Friday. In fact, let's have them all on Sunday night or Monday, because when there is no weekend upcoming to ruin, we actually play well and win; give us a chance to ruin a whole weekend, oh boy, do we take that chance.
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Jacks run was the sliding doors moment. Stick it in and it’s one of the goals of all time, however hindsight tells us that the easy pass to Watkins and it’s one nil. That said, Leeds were amazing in their athleticism, and the way they dropped in when out of possession is something we can learn from.
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The ref did us no favours
Penalty on Jack
Should have been a second yellow and it looked like Bamford stamped on Mings when he tried to get a penalty.
I thought the same Chicago.
Overall, I felt we shaded the first half and then Dirty Leeds the second.
It's one game, let's beat Southampton
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I didn’t even watch it and it still feels like a big kick in the knackers but in perspective who wouldn’t have taken one loss and four wins so far.
We go again........oh
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I thought Leeds were excellent and Bielsa worked us out, particularly second half as Jack hardly had a kick. It was going to happen sometime and my only worry was how we responded after going a goal down as I though the days of capitulation were over. I’m sure Dean will be pointing this out over the coming days though!
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Tell you what, Gary, the one thing that Leeds didn't lack was something they had in abundance and that one thing was pace, movement and desire.
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In the cold light of day, I think pretty much the same as I did last night when half cut. Even first half, second half the game for me was lost in the middle of the park where luiz and Barkley didn’t get anywhere near matching their energy and McGinn who I thought had a really good 1st half, faded. That allowed the ball to be frequently sprayed out wide, both their wingers had excellent games but cash in particular was given no protection by Trez who had is first really poor performance of the season. It would of been a worldly from Jack, but overall Bielsa had done his homework on him, that’s several games when he could of played in Watkins earlier but chose to beat an extra man. Thought Watkins continued to work hard and looks a good forward, but needs better service.
All in all poor performance and didn’t match up to them physically or tactically.
However, we’ve had an excellent start to the season, so let’s not write off smith tactically or individual players just yet.
Southampton will be interesting as I think they play a very similar hard fast pressing game, as Leeds, so hopefully we will deal with it more effectively.
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The one thing I did take from last night is that you can and we did get at that Leeds back 4. Despite the last half hour collapse we did create scoring opportunities and with a more clinical approach could have had 2 or 3 goals. That said we deserved to lose and need to have a look at what went wrong both tactically and the players mentality.
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That reminded me of the 0-3 home defeat to Wimbledon all those years ago.
In form, looking good, and then bosh!
I remember early home defeats in previous years.
89/90. Lost 3-1 to QPR. Trevor Francis hat trick.
And also 92/93 lost 3-1 to Chelsea.
And we know what happened in those two seasons.
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As Smith said and Bielsa said; if we took our chances before they scored then it's a totally different game.
Leeds' approach will see them pick up some great wins, but in a lot of those games they'll be lucky not to concede.
4 wins out of 5 for us. Amazing start - let's not get too down.
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Not seen the game but let's be honest I think Bielsa has Smith's number. The 2 games in 2018/9 showed that to me.
I thought Conor H would have been a great sub on last night remembering how he was in that April 19 match. But Smith went for his usual change and does seem to lack a certain tactical flair.
Still, no one expected 12 points from the first 5 so great start Villa !
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Overall so far this season it's not a big issue however I hate losing on Friday night as it means I can't laugh at other teams during the weekend.
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I wouldn't try to over analysis the game too much. They were the better side and even though we wasn't as good as we have been, we could have scored 4 ourselves. We've made a start none of us expected. Last night is one to write off and put right next time round.
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We have a way of playing and the players to do it, Leeds have theirs. Last night, Bielsa's way beat Smith's. It pains me to my very core to say it, but Leeds were stunning. If they can keep that up, they'll be finishing very high up the table.
But still the last thing I want to see is Aston Villa taking to the field set up primarily to stop the opposition. There's virtually no other side capable of doing what Leeds did last night, and that was the level of performance required to beat us, so good luck to anybody else who watched that and thinks they've also sussed how to do it. Yeah, they might have worked it out, but there's hardly any with enough players of Leeds' ilk at their disposal to put it into effect .
Hats off to Leeds, they look like they're going to do more than alright. And so will we.
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I thought the firs half was pretty even. They came out of the blocks and then we grew into the game I really enjoyed it. Second half was all about the first goal and that was that. Cash easily our MOTM.
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Leeds were incredibly fit, and wanted it more. My wife commented 10 minutes in how lean the Leeds players looked, and how quick they were closing us down. It was very impressive. No way they sustain that over a full season though, they will struggle with many more injuries. Deserved to win last night though.
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Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are. Well, make our players fitter then. You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?
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It’s a long season. As impressed as I was with Leeds 2nd half I’ll be amazed if they are still doing that in February. The lockdown was as helpful for them as it was for us.
I’m not too despondent. We had 3 great chances (Grealish x2 and Konsa) before their first goal, score any of those and it’s a different story. We just didn’t take our chances, they did, fair play to them, it happens.
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I agree that more running makes you fitter Risso but some players are just more natural athletes than others so will respond better to the training. I think Bielsa chooses natural athletes who suit his style of play and can cope with the brutal physical conditioning that he puts them through.
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It’s well documented how intense their fitness regime is under Bielsa. Double sessions same day I think.
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Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are. Well, make our players fitter then. You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?
You’re conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. They’ve never kept it up for a season in the championship so I’d be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but they’ll fade playing that style.
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It’s a long season. As impressed as I was with Leeds 2nd half I’ll be amazed if they are still doing that in February. The lockdown was as helpful for them as it was for us.
I’m not too despondent. We had 3 great chances (Grealish x2 and Konsa) before their first goal, score any of those and it’s a different story. We just didn’t take our chances, they did, fair play to them, it happens.
Agree with this. The last two seasons they had a post Xmas slump, one that dragged them into the play offs another they recovered from. If Something similar happens this season, the premier league as we all know from last year, can be brutal. So as well as they played last night and deserved winners as they were, there’s no guarantee Leeds won’t struggle later in the season.
As an aside just watched that Grealish run again, pure class, but he has to play Watkins in at the right moment, there would of still been work to do but he was unmarked.
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We just were not at it like previous games and against a team like Leeds you are asking for trouble. They need a kick up the arse vs Soton as they and Ings will punish you.
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They had 27 shots. I thought we'd said goodbye to those sort of stats, so hopefully yesterday was a one off blip.
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How much did Gaby's outburst affect their approach? Zero? Lots? Can't help thinking of Pandiani but what effect does an ex-player have compared to a current player making statements? Bugger-all?
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Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are. Well, make our players fitter then. You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?
You’re conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. They’ve never kept it up for a season in the championship so I’d be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but they’ll fade playing that style.
They'll play 8 fewer league fixtures this season, and have a bigger and they have better squad than last year. I'm not saying they won't run out of steam, but it's definitely less-likely than in previous years.
I was impressed by them, and by Bielsa. As I said in the match-thread, that sub after 20-odd mins was really ballsy, and was shown to be a great decision.
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I thought the firs half was pretty even. They came out of the blocks and then we grew into the game I really enjoyed it. Second half was all about the first goal and that was that. Cash easily our MOTM.
Pretty much how I saw it. If we had scored first we would have been able to sit and try to pick them off on the break but they did and were then able to exploit the spaces we were leaving. They were absolutely relentless though, I doubt we’ll play another team quite like that all season. It will be interesting to see if they can keep it up.
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I thought the firs half was pretty even. They came out of the blocks and then we grew into the game I really enjoyed it. Second half was all about the first goal and that was that. Cash easily our MOTM.
Miff?
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Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are. Well, make our players fitter then. You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?
You’re conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. They’ve never kept it up for a season in the championship so I’d be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but they’ll fade playing that style.
They won the last 5 games in a row before lockdown.
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With hindsight we were too open and should have condensed the space a lot more, they had a lot of areas for players to break in to and balls to be played in to. A tighter game could have produced different results BUT we've played 5 games and won 4 of them which is a fantastic start.
Tactically it wasn't a good match up for us with their energy and pace, Barkley looked unfit. It's important to keep grounded. We don't have the best manager, we don't have the best players, we need to learn and not go back to open games where we are conceding 20+ shots per game. Keep it a bit tighter, don't get carried away with our attacking prowess. We'll have more good results and more bad results this season. The aim is for top 10, that would be a fantastic step up.
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Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are. Well, make our players fitter then. You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?
You’re conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. They’ve never kept it up for a season in the championship so I’d be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but they’ll fade playing that style.
They won the last 5 games in a row before lockdown.
Yep you’re right, I must have been thinking of their run in Jan/ Feb where they won 1 in 7 losing 4.
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We really need to bounce back strong from this and show it was an off night. I expect the players to fully at it next week and Dean to be tactically sharp.
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Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are. Well, make our players fitter then. You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?
You’re conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. They’ve never kept it up for a season in the championship so I’d be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but they’ll fade playing that style.
Blew up? They got promoted!
I thought they were one of the best Attacking sides we had played against For some while
Not sure how Bamford had so much room for his second and third goals though. Similar to Salah’s second
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Unlike most on here, I thought they easily outplayed us in the first half before ripping us a new one in the second.
Tactically and fitness-wise, they were streets ahead.
Just one thing though (not sour grapes)..... Bamford threw himself to try to steal a penalty and the reason Mings got so mad was because it was as blatant a bit of cheating as his play acting at Eland Road in our promotion year.
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Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are. Well, make our players fitter then. You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?
You’re conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. They’ve never kept it up for a season in the championship so I’d be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but they’ll fade playing that style.
Blew up? They got promoted.
I’m pretty sure we did actually.
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Ho-hum. Next!
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Not read a single thing on Twitter / internet since the game kicked off as the fawning over Leeds would wind me up.
They were decent, showed their fitness that I still stand by will see them finish season at top end of bottom six, no higher.
Was a very disappointing 2nd half once Jack didn’t finish that run - before that it was very 50/50....the commentary made out they were all over us but they absolutely weren’t - the amount of ball we nicked betw the defence/midfield it was poor that we didn’t punish them.
Annoying that horrible cheat Bamford scored a hat trick, all good finishes but the way he flung himself in the air to try and get a penalty was nearly as bad as the one with El Ghazi last time we played...at least when Jack went down there was contact.
Whilst Trezeguet & Targett were obvious weak links, it would be hard to pick anyone who played well...Douglas was probably the best.
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Update at 13:31 on Sat 24th: weekend *still* ruined. God dammit, I'm almost feeling like we lost a cup final.
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Tell you what, Gary, the one thing that Leeds didn't lack was something they had in abundance and that one thing was pace, movement and desire.
That's with Leeds: missing their main centre back and holding midfielder, having a day less rest from the previous game and Bielsa hooking one of their midfielders after 20 mins and bringing a kid in.
Huge week for players and management to turn around that shit show of a performance in second half and prove to Southampton that it was a one off. I'd certainly be in favour of a high profile player or two being dropped as a result and a complete tactical overhaul of our midfield.
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Leeds will blow up at some point in the new year, in time-honoured Bielsa fashion. In the meantime they'll be fine.
I was pissed off with the performance and the match-up of styles exposed our tactical weaknesses, but every side has them, it's an inevitable consequence of actually having tactical strengths - the same thing happened to Leeds against Wolves. It's a pisser, we live and learn, but let's not act like this means Dean or Jack or Ross are suddenly shit having been brilliant all season so far.
(As an aside, maybe this doesn't hurt as much because I don't have any particular hatred for Leeds. I don't love them, with their sanctimony and Bamford and pretentious Real Madrid shirts, but maybe because the Revie era was before my time and my main memories are feeling sorry for the fans after the Ridsdale shit, I don't feel a special antipathy towards them.)
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They stopped us playing out from the back, whilst we allowed them all the time in the world.
We kept going long & immediately gave the ball back to them.
They closed us down quickly, while we never got near them. We took 2 touches where they took 1. Our setup made it too easy for them & Smith did nothing to change it.
But 12 points from 15 is still a wonderful start.
We need to learn from it quickly because Southampton will set out to do exactly the same next week.
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Had Jack scored or better passed to an open Ollie after that spectacular run this game would have been so different. It’s harsh to criticize him after that run, but that decision there, in isolation might have decided the game, or certainly what could have happened after. And he did much the same in the game vs Leicester. He has to be better at getting others involved at the key moments. If he tries to do it all alone we will be back where we were last season. It cannot be all about Jack.
Totally agree with this.
They have got to work on Jack having more of an end product when he goes on one of his runs. It's the difference between him becoming world class and him being remembered as a top player who didn't quite fulfill his potential. If we scored from that run it would have made a dramatic difference on the night. Leeds are a very good side with a world class coach. They will surely ruffle the feathers of many top teams this season. If we finish above them we will be at least top half.
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I know all the 12 points from 15 is great and a bad day at the office bla bla is fine. But it isn’t as if we weren’t aware of how they were going to play. They never change. Why we were so tactically inept therefore lies at the feet of Dean’s door. I hope Barkley doesn’t become one of these players that are undroppable. If he’s not fit he should be rested or at least replaced when we are chasing a game.
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Ah well, we move on. Decent break before the Southampton match, so chance for things to be put right and any slight knocks to get over.
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Bielsa - you don't have to be a genius to make your team very very fit so they can play the power game for 90+ minutes. I think lasting the pace has been an issue for us under Smith as well as previous managers. We look to have improved in that respect since lockdown but Leeds showed there is still a way to go.
Bamford - anyone wondering why he is so despised only needs to re-watch the way he got AEG sent off (and the subsequent feeble attempts to justify it in that documentary) and the pathetic playacting to try and get a pen last night when he'd actually trodden on Mings' foot. There are plenty of other examples. The arsehole is a grade A cheating shithouse.
Grealish - that run showed why he is in the England squad but not in the team. Brilliant play to beat the players, but then holds on to it way to long and loses the opening for himself and especially for the wide open Watkins. It may not be a popular view but it showed that Southgate and Sourness maybe have a point. Leeds' one and two touch counter attacks showed how it could and should be done. He lost possession several times last night when passes were on. I also suspect the non-penalty decision is related to his reputation for going to ground a little too easily - even though there are worse offenders (Mane, Vardy) who get away with it.
Our full-backs - both thrown under the bus by Smith and the midfielders who were meant to be supporting them. Not sure why they are being criticised by some.
Trezeguet - it's no good tracking Alioski back as far as the penalty area and then stopping while Alioski overlaps Harrison and runs into space. Improving with the ball but still lacks composure and without the ball was back to his headless chicken impersonation last night. Des Bremner he aint.
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Blew up? They got promoted!
He's on about 18/19.
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I thought the firs half was pretty even. They came out of the blocks and then we grew into the game I really enjoyed it. Second half was all about the first goal and that was that. Cash easily our MOTM.
Miff?
Yes
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Leeds were good last night we need to regroup and beat Southampton next week.
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They were great, fair play a deserved easy win
Bielsa is a fantastic coach, negated Jack really well. Sometimes you just accept the defeat and the fact you’ve been done fair and square and move on.
I've waited until now to look online, but that was my take on it too. They were pretty much perfect in their play, they probably won't play that well again for 90 minutes this season, think it was about 75 minutes before they made an errant pass.
Onwards and upwards.
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And if anyone was MOM for us last night it was Konza. Feels strange to say it in a 3-0 defeat but he was flawless, and kept going to the death.
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I think last night showed Trez ain’t good enough. He was AWOL so many times. Targett we know about. I also think Cash is a bit of a liability but I think there is a good chance he will come good. I hope the scouts are lining up some upgrades in January. If they do it will be a very interesting season.
But yes goals change games. If only Jack had scored - we all would be very chipper today.
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Oh and just because Jack didn’t make the pass last night - suddenly Southgate is right. What a load of utter bollocks.
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And if anyone was MOM for us last night it was Konza. Feels strange to say it in a 3-0 defeat but he was flawless, and kept going to the death.
Tell you what, Gary, the one thing that Leeds didn't lack was something they had in abundance and that one thing was pace, movement and desire.
That's with Leeds: missing their main centre back and holding midfielder, having a day less rest from the previous game and Bielsa hooking one of their midfielders after 20 mins and bringing a kid in.
Huge week for players and management to turn around that shit show of a performance in second half and prove to Southampton that it was a one off. I'd certainly be in favour of a high profile player or two being dropped as a result and a complete tactical overhaul of our midfield.
Making changes after our first defeat in five and dropping high profile players? Why does us losing a game bring out the panic mode in some people? They were the better side, like we were in the previous four games. We lost, it happens.
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Oh and just because Jack didn’t make the pass last night - suddenly Southgate is right. What a load of utter bollocks.
First off I haven't said Southgate's right - I said he may have a point. And even that wouldn't be a fair conclusion to draw if it was the only example. It isn't, there are plenty more if anyone cares to see them. Jack's good, very good, but he has his faults too. But hey keep on wearing your "Jack is God" specs if it makes you happy.
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W6 D2 L1 of our last 9 league games, I wouldn't be panicking yet.
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It’s well documented how intense their fitness regime is under Bielsa. Double sessions same day I think.
Have we ever had a manager doing double sesssions? Just curious. Pochettino went in at Spurs and starting doing it and they flew up the league pretty quickly.
Drove past Bodymoor the other week and see they've changed the entrance so I assume fans can't watch training anymore or get autographs/selfies. Think I last went down in the final MON season and players were clocking off at 12.01pm.
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It’s a long season. As impressed as I was with Leeds 2nd half I’ll be amazed if they are still doing that in February. The lockdown was as helpful for them as it was for us.
I’m not too despondent. We had 3 great chances (Grealish x2 and Konsa) before their first goal, score any of those and it’s a different story. We just didn’t take our chances, they did, fair play to them, it happens.
Agree with this. The last two seasons they had a post Xmas slump, one that dragged them into the play offs another they recovered from. If Something similar happens this season, the premier league as we all know from last year, can be brutal. So as well as they played last night and deserved winners as they were, there’s no guarantee Leeds won’t struggle later in the season.
As an aside just watched that Grealish run again, pure class, but he has to play Watkins in at the right moment, there would of still been work to do but he was unmarked.
We need to heed the warning though aswell. Just playing the same 11 continously and we'll be burnt out by Feb aswell. Even if that means we bring in players that not many fans trust it's important we mix up the starting 11 at times this season. If that means a big name player benched then so be it as that's what teams in the top 6 do.
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W6 D2 L1 of our last 9 league games, I wouldn't be panicking yet.
Yep, but after one defeat we need a tactical overhaul of our midfield apparently.
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It’s well documented how intense their fitness regime is under Bielsa. Double sessions same day I think.
Have we ever had a manager doing double sesssions? Just curious. Pochettino went in at Spurs and starting doing it and they flew up the league pretty quickly.
Drove past Bodymoor the other week and see they've changed the entrance so I assume fans can't watch training anymore or get autographs/selfies. Think I last went down in the final MON season and players were clocking off at 12.01pm.
When Houlier tried it he got slagged unmercifully for causing too many injuries.
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Bear in mind as well, Leeds had 3 key players out, including their best player. They reshuffled the whole team to plug the gap then had to reshuffle it again when his replacement looked like he was going to get sent off.
That’s the kind of flexibility of thought and tactical pragmatism that smith just lacks.
Stop speaking sense, mate! Hope you're well pal. I had to be up at 6, and have to work 9-7. On a Saturday. In a foul mood because of Smith and his inept tactics.
Haha yep! All good thanks ma the hope you’re ok despite the villa showing and the early start. Expect littleun is keeping you busy!
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W6 D2 L1 of our last 9 league games, I wouldn't be panicking yet.
Yep, but after one defeat we need a tactical overhaul of our midfield apparently.
Not really. If players aren't 100% fit though it's going to be a problem against mega press teams. Leeds are one and Southampton will be same next week.
Barkley said after Leicester game he very nearly missed the game as he'd barely trained the week so it reminds me a little of us playinh McGinn after he got injured playing for Scotland and his performances really dropped off and then he eventually got a bad injury (although that was unrelated).
We do have plenty of options in central midfield to mix things up. We could bring in Nakamba next weekend alongside Luiz or just go back to Hourihane given we've won 4 of the last 5 he's started for us and I think that would remain a competitive midfield.
I'd make a change in midfield and bring in Traore to have a look at him starting a game so I wouldn't say changing 2 players is some radical move. No issue with defensive unit as they've been very good so far, second half was just bad day and they weren't helped hugely by shape infront of them.
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It’s well documented how intense their fitness regime is under Bielsa. Double sessions same day I think.
Have we ever had a manager doing double sesssions? Just curious. Pochettino went in at Spurs and starting doing it and they flew up the league pretty quickly.
Drove past Bodymoor the other week and see they've changed the entrance so I assume fans can't watch training anymore or get autographs/selfies. Think I last went down in the final MON season and players were clocking off at 12.01pm.
When Houlier tried it he got slagged unmercifully for causing too many injuries.
They barely trained under MON (seemingly because half of the squad lived in Cheshire or London in those times) so with many of them being in the experienced age range it was a problem going from one extreme to the other.
Would work better with this present squad though. I assume Martinez, Watkins, Cash and Barkley were all doing double sessions at their previous clubs given the speed and intensity their ex clubs played at.
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W6 D2 L1 of our last 9 league games, I wouldn't be panicking yet.
Yep, but after one defeat we need a tactical overhaul of our midfield apparently.
Not really. If players aren't 100% fit though it's going to be a problem against mega press teams. Leeds are one and Southampton will be same next week.
Barkley said after Leicester game he very nearly missed the game as he'd barely trained the week so it reminds me a little of us playinh McGinn after he got injured playing for Scotland and his performances really dropped off and then he eventually got a bad injury (although that was unrelated).
We do have plenty of options in central midfield to mix things up. We could bring in Nakamba next weekend alongside Luiz or just go back to Hourihane given we've won 4 of the last 5 he's started for us and I think that would remain a competitive midfield.
I'd make a change in midfield and bring in Traore to have a look at him starting a game so I wouldn't say changing 2 players is some radical move. No issue with defensive unit as they've been very good so far, second half was just bad day and they weren't helped hugely by shape infront of them.
Point taken but I think on the back of four straight wins and
defeat, it's unnecessary. I'd personally go with the same side and give them the opportunity to get us back on track rather than kicking people out the side because we lost one game.
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On the same theme, in his interview with Pravda this week, McGinn admitted that he played post-lockdown when he was less than 70% fit and "did it for the team, not myself". My worry is that Dean sees a core as undroppable unless their legs are falling off. I don't know how easy it is to rectify that, as our replacements in midfield especially are a clear step down in quality.
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Lots of middle distance runners train twice a day, every day for up to 100 miles a week and obviously they get much, much fittter aerobically than footballers. But, an awful lot succumb to illness and injuries and very, very, few compete week in week out let alone twice some weeks like footballers do. I think the cumulative grind of a season plus the effect of impact injuries which you obviously don’t get in running mean that training intensely twice a day for footballers isn’t sustainable for long .
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We had some crucial decisions go against us which contributed to the scoreline so I don't think we should change too much given that we have won four games out of five.
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I think there's a difference in seeing a player can't perform to the level you, or he, want because of injury so you rest him, and dropping players as a kneejerk reaction to one bad game.
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On the same theme, in his interview with Pravda this week, McGinn admitted that he played post-lockdown when he was less than 70% fit and "did it for the team, not myself". My worry is that Dean sees a core as undroppable unless their legs are falling off. I don't know how easy it is to rectify that, as our replacements in midfield especially are a clear step down in quality.
That was needs must as just having McGinn back gave everyone a boost initally and he was desperate to play. Bigger problem was in the lead up to his injury in December. I also think Mings around that time wasn't 100% and then his hamstring goes v Leicester.
I don't think anyone is saying give Hourihane or Hause 20 starts this season but Hourihane could certainly come in for the odd game here and there and I'm sure we wouldn't collapse as we didn't when he started the last 4 last season.
This season's schedule will become brutal again from December onwards so I'd like to avoid situation where we go into that period without 2-3 key players all out at same time because they're being overplayed after a limited pre season. Watkins having to play every single minute of every game is also a bit concerning given our lack of out and out forwards in the squad. Spurs leave Kane and Son regularly on bench for their cup games so that's a good example of them resting their best players at good times.
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Bear in mind as well, Leeds had 3 key players out, including their best player. They reshuffled the whole team to plug the gap then had to reshuffle it again when his replacement looked like he was going to get sent off.
That’s the kind of flexibility of thought and tactical pragmatism that smith just lacks.
Stop speaking sense, mate! Hope you're well pal. I had to be up at 6, and have to work 9-7. On a Saturday. In a foul mood because of Smith and his inept tactics.
Haha yep! All good thanks ma the hope you’re ok despite the villa showing and the early start. Expect littleun is keeping you busy!
Good stuff, mate. All ok now, littleun sleeping on me, sipping some whiskey soda, a good PS4 session on the go. Have a good weekend mate and will speak soon! Up the Villa!
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On the same theme, in his interview with Pravda this week, McGinn admitted that he played post-lockdown when he was less than 70% fit and "did it for the team, not myself". My worry is that Dean sees a core as undroppable unless their legs are falling off. I don't know how easy it is to rectify that, as our replacements in midfield especially are a clear step down in quality.
I reckon three quarters of the the teams in the Premier League would struggle if they dropped/rested their core players.
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On the same theme, in his interview with Pravda this week, McGinn admitted that he played post-lockdown when he was less than 70% fit and "did it for the team, not myself". My worry is that Dean sees a core as undroppable unless their legs are falling off. I don't know how easy it is to rectify that, as our replacements in midfield especially are a clear step down in quality.
I reckon three quarters of the the teams in the Premier League would struggle if they dropped/rested their core players.
West Ham seem to be doing o.k at the moment dropping Noble who was their captain and started about 500 games for them in his career. Diop was also seen as their best CB until a few months ago.
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I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water because it's still been a brilliant start. It was concerning though, just how easily Leeds humped us second half, despite having fewer rest days than us, and being without their best player. We've got plenty of time to work on what went wrong before Southampton though.
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Yesterday wasn’t good. Let’s not sugarcoat that. But after this weekend I think the worst we will be is 4th spot because of our GD with a game in hand on all the teams around us. Going into a 5 game stretch where we can certainly pick up a number of points to be in an early top 6 place. If someone had told me that when the season kicked I’d have told them they were a little crazy.
The truth is all the teams this season have flaws that on any given weekend can be exposed. Just look at any number of results that have taken place. Yesterday was our day to have a bad one. With the exception of only a couple of teams all have had some really bad results this season.
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Sleeping on it I can now conclude that Bielsa will be managing someone of greater stature than Leeds before long. This is a good thing because I think if Leeds had serious backers they could be a force for some time. Last night was A case of master and apprentice.
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I think last night showed Trez ain’t good enough. He was AWOL so many times. Targett we know about. I also think Cash is a bit of a liability but I think there is a good chance he will come good. I hope the scouts are lining up some upgrades in January. If they do it will be a very interesting season.
But yes goals change games. If only Jack had scored - we all would be very chipper today.
As I mentioned in another thread, Trezeguet looks great in a win and gets blamed for being shit in a defeat, it's the nature of his style.
They did us, their fans will be excited... It just didn't work for us last night. It was breakneck stuff and a really entertaining 50 minutes.
There were little errors from us across the pitch and they were pretty much faultless. Much like the Liverpool game.
I'm really pissed off about it but it happens. It's how we react next that matters.
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I think last night showed Trez ain’t good enough. He was AWOL so many times. Targett we know about. I also think Cash is a bit of a liability but I think there is a good chance he will come good. I hope the scouts are lining up some upgrades in January. If they do it will be a very interesting season.
But yes goals change games. If only Jack had scored - we all would be very chipper today.
As I mentioned in another thread, Trezeguet looks great in a win and gets blamed for being shit in a defeat, it's the nature of his style.
They did us, their fans will be excited... It just didn't work for us last night. It was breakneck stuff and a really entertaining 50 minutes.
There were little errors from us across the pitch and they were pretty much faultless. Much like the Liverpool game.
I'm really pissed off about it but it happens. It's how we react next that matters.
Well summed.
We can put this one to bed. Obviously a similar performance/result against Southampton, who are no mugs themselves, will be a bit more concerning
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I've said it before and I've said it here - there's no shame in losing if you learn from it. Leeds had one of those halves like we did against Fulham. We go again.
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Almost every team this season has had at least one really bad result. It was inevitable we would eventually. It doesn’t diminish all that came before it, nor does it indicate what might happen in the next game.
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My conclusion: Friday night football sucks. They've ruined my weekend.
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My conclusion: Friday night football sucks. They've ruined my weekend.
Exactly.
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Good stuff, mate. All ok now, littleun sleeping on me, sipping some whiskey soda, a good PS4 session on the go. Have a good weekend mate and will speak soon! Up the Villa!
Good stuff mate that’s living the dream right there! Enjoy!
Thanks mate have a good one too UTFV 👍
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Sleeping on it I can now conclude that Bielsa will be managing someone of greater stature than Leeds before long. This is a good thing because I think if Leeds had serious backers they could be a force for some time. Last night was A case of master and apprentice.
I read yesterday he's prepared to stay there for next season. Such a waste at the rugby league town.
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I've said it before and I've said it here - there's no shame in losing if you learn from it. Leeds had one of those halves like we did against Fulham. We go again.
Yep agree the key bit is showing we’ve learnt and grown in response.
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Still surprised and disappointed with 4 coaches on the side line that we didn't change the shape tactically. It was not working yet we continued with more if the same.
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There are no words in the English language foul enough to adequately express my dislike of Leeds. My opinion of Patrick Bamford is pretty much the same. A good start to the weekend, it was not.
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We seem a bit like a MON team (hopefully as good). Normally solid, good on the counter-attack, but struggle when a team has players behind the ball.
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The biggest thing I noticed last night was that when Martínez had hold of the ball, he was looking to throw. Every time. No outfield player looked remotely interested in receiving it.
As soon a he caught a corner ball for example he looked up ready to throw but they were all static in the box. Absolutely no urgency at all. No interest in starting an attack instantly. Much preferred to wait and let Leeds get 10 behind the ball.
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The biggest thing I noticed last night was that when Martínez had hold of the ball, he was looking to throw. Every time. No outfield player looked remotely interested in receiving it.
As soon a he caught a corner ball for example he looked up ready to throw but they were all static in the box. Absolutely no urgency at all. No interest in starting an attack instantly. Much preferred to wait and let Leeds get 10 behind the ball.
Yeah I agree. Was watching with my son and he was shouting at the screen "no one wants the bloody ball" and he was right. Bit of an odd performance all round last night but I'm confident we will bounce back. And let's not forget we still sit second in the league at the time of writing this with a game in hand over teams around us.
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I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water because it's still been a brilliant start. It was concerning though, just how easily Leeds humped us second half, despite having fewer rest days than us, and being without their best player. We've got plenty of time to work on what went wrong before Southampton though.
I think that’s basically it. We have to show we’ve used it as a learning experience and are better for it.
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We seem a bit like a MON team (hopefully as good). Normally solid, good on the counter-attack, but struggle when a team has players behind the ball.
They were all out attack and all out defense man for man, absolutely brilliant fitness. They certainly weren’t defensive though.
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What concerns me is how quickly we have gone from "Ruthless to Toothless"
Are Leeds really that much better than us or is the gulf between the two coaches so big?
Great start to the season but let's not get complacent ......
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I think last night showed Trez ain’t good enough. He was AWOL so many times. Targett we know about. I also think Cash is a bit of a liability but I think there is a good chance he will come good. I hope the scouts are lining up some upgrades in January. If they do it will be a very interesting season.
But yes goals change games. If only Jack had scored - we all would be very chipper today.
As I mentioned in another thread, Trezeguet looks great in a win and gets blamed for being shit in a defeat, it's the nature of his style.
They did us, their fans will be excited... It just didn't work for us last night. It was breakneck stuff and a really entertaining 50 minutes.
There were little errors from us across the pitch and they were pretty much faultless. Much like the Liverpool game.
I'm really pissed off about it but it happens. It's how we react next that matters.
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Proper ruined my weekend though. Hope we don’t get too many more Friday night kick offs.
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The social club where I watched the game is considered to be more of a nose club than Villa. There wasn't a spare seat to be had. And at least 50% were noses. Just sayin.
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Can always tell when Jack isn’t having a really good game as he gets petulant and booked. He should really try to cut out that side of his game as it shows the opponents they are getting the better of him.
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Even after conceding 3 we still have the best defensive record in the division.
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Can always tell when Jack isn’t having a really good game as he gets petulant and booked. He should really try to cut out that side of his game as it shows the opponents they are getting the better of him.
Same with Mings. Only Jack is as good as he thinks he is.
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What concerns me is how quickly we have gone from "Ruthless to Toothless"
Are Leeds really that much better than us or is the gulf between the two coaches so big?
Great start to the season but let's not get complacent ......
I think on the flip side of not getting complacent is everyone not over reacting - we weren’t great but we had a shot cleared off line & Jack’s run before they scored so we were not exactly toothless.
We have pretty much played the same teams as them yet we have 2 points more - they were better than us 2nd half last night, both coaches sent their teams out to play the only way they do, they executed better.
Bring on Southampton :-)
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Just watched the replay on motd. Made us look a lot better than I remember it. Bamfords first and especially his third were eminently avoidable. And Jack really should have put Watkins in for a sitter after his brilliant run. A goal there alters the whole course of the game. I know it's almost sacrilegious to criticise Jack but that did cost us dearly last night.
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People acting like it was an open goal for Watkins. With the pass being rolled to him defenders would've been sliding themselves in to block and also still had the keeper to beat.
Think Jack had every right to shoot considering he'd just gone on the incredible run but possibly should've shot a little earlier or looked up to see the keeper was quite a way over to his left. Reminded me of the run he had v Fulham in the first play off final.
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People acting like it was an open goal for Watkins. With the pass being rolled to him defenders would've been sliding themselves in to block and also still had the keeper to beat.
Think Jack had every right to shoot considering he'd just gone on the incredible run but possibly should've shot a little earlier or looked up to see the keeper was quite a way over to his left. Reminded me of the run he had v Fulham in the first play off final.
Watkins was literally unmarked no more than 10 yards out. Not knocking Jack but he really should have given it Watkins.
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Did anyone notice this?
The three goals that Bamford scored came almost exactly after that “penalty” incident with Mings where Mings picked him up by the scruff of his neck. I hate him for it, but Bamford doing this caused Mings to lose his calm and go to pieces - we all know Bamford has form with his diving and cheating, and when he went over, it clearly was a designed wind up to get Mings fired up. It worked, Mings was all over the place after that and Bamford scored 3.
I hate him for it, but he certainly got inside Mings’ head with that game. And it bloody worked. He knew exactly how to fire him up and make him lose his concentration.
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The beef between them seems like it was apparent as early as the first half. Bamford got in between Mings and Konsa for a diving header that flashed wide. From one of the replays you could see Bamford saying something to Mings immediately afterwards, presumably to the effect of "You'd better watch it". On what grounds I'm not sure, as Mings didn't touch him
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Biggest issue for me is the way we did not respond after the first goal and stopped playing after the second. With the exception of Watkins, Konsa (except the third goal when four Villa players stood and admired Bamford's boots), and, to a lesser degree, SJM, I thought every player had a very bad night. Even Martinez' positioning was bad on the opening goal which forced him to palm it rather than collect it, but he was the least of our problems last night.
Still, 12 points from 15, so I am not going to get wound up yet. But they all better show up against Southampton next week.
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People acting like it was an open goal for Watkins. With the pass being rolled to him defenders would've been sliding themselves in to block and also still had the keeper to beat.
Think Jack had every right to shoot.
This guy. ::)
(https://i.imgur.com/yRs24D4.jpg)
Literally most of the goals Watkins scored last season were in and around this area. He would have slotted that away with ease.
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If you play back that incident there was an opportunity to play in Ollie, when there was only 1 player between him and Jack (and just the keeper to beat). I was shouting at the screen for Jack to make the pass. Obvs there are no guarantees, but surely we have to play in our Ł28m striker off the back of a hatrick in his previous home game.
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It’s all hindsight and I understand why jack didn’t make the pass, after he’d just run the length of the pitch and had the goal of the season beckoning. But it’s not the first time this season he hasn’t played Watkins in at the right time, it happened against Leicester and one or two occasions against Fulham.
It’s a bit frustrating.
He’s our best player and our captain, but I hope he’s not beyond Smith and his coaching team having a word in his ear.
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Jack has been nothing short of stunning so far this season but there's still room for improvement in certain areas. With the right coaching he can go from our top player to one of the best in Europe.
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We looked knackered as soon as they scored. Mentally and physically it broke us.
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Jack has been nothing short of stunning so far this season but there's still room for improvement in certain areas. With the right coaching he can go from our top player to one of the best in Europe.
he seems to be getting the right coaching under Smith. His progress has been off the scale. Thankfully he’s been staying fit.
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If you play back that incident there was an opportunity to play in Ollie, when there was only 1 player between him and Jack (and just the keeper to beat). I was shouting at the screen for Jack to make the pass. Obvs there are no guarantees, but surely we have to play in our Ł28m striker off the back of a hatrick in his previous home game.
Yep he should have passed. When he opted to shoot the opportunity was gone, much like his England career I suspect.
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I'm sure he'll outlast the England set-up longer than Mountgate.
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From memory when Jack got his shot away he was in a better position than Watkins was at any time. That’s not to say he shouldn’t have passed but when he did shoot it was still just the keeper to beat and 8 yards out with the same angle.
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From memory when Jack got his shot away he was in a better position than Watkins was at any time. That’s not to say he shouldn’t have passed but when he did shoot it was still just the keeper to beat and 8 yards out with the same angle.
I think you should watch it again. Watkins was in yards of space as the picture above shows. Grealish was at a much tighter angle and had a Leeds defender sliding in front of him, another in close proximity and the keeper right in his line of view. It wasn't a good opportunity by then. The defence were all moving towards him when he got into the box, and so Watkins would have been unmarked.
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Yeah, he should have passed but after that amazing run he made, I don't really blame him for wanting to shoot.
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I wouldn't think Southgate would write him off on that basis either. Who the hell else in the Prem could go on a run like that (Spurs' Sunny Sonny Son maybe but not many others)?
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People acting like it was an open goal for Watkins. With the pass being rolled to him defenders would've been sliding themselves in to block and also still had the keeper to beat.
Think Jack had every right to shoot.
This guy. ::)
(https://i.imgur.com/yRs24D4.jpg)
Literally most of the goals Watkins scored last season were in and around this area. He would have slotted that away with ease.
Jack could have shot from there and should still be scoring. Run the play on and he should be scoring anyway. Think he took a touch too many possibly. I guess he could have committed Ayling a bit more there and then Watkins would just have keeper to beat. Don't think Jack did much wrong. Very few attacking players would have passed in the same situation. Jack missed two sitters really, one in the first half, great clearance aside, but it has to go in.
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Yeah, he should have passed but after that amazing run he made, I don't really blame him for wanting to shoot.
I don't think anyone blames him for going for glory. If he'd scored we would be having a different conversation about the greatest goal ever scored by a Villa player at Villa Park. Fine margins and we can watch the replays to see passing
to Ollie was the right thing to do. Jack's still learning and we are privileged to be witnessing the rise of on of our own to the very pinnacle of the game.
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We looked knackered as soon as they scored. Mentally and physically it broke us.
This is absolutely spot on. That first goal was so important and we have form for giving less than a fuck when we go behind. Still, it's only happened once so far this season and we have to learn from it.
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Have to say I'm proud of my fellow Villa fans for the way they responded to this defeat. I have complained about the excess gloating in the past, but you have been totally classy since Friday.
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What a great post.
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What a great post.
I agree.
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I’ve not watched any of the game and neither do I intend to. Continuing my childish rant reaction to when we lose a game. Unless I’ve actually been at the game.
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We looked knackered as soon as they scored. Mentally and physically it broke us.
It's a strange one because at the tail end of last season this team had to contend with mental pressure of a magnitude no Villa team in my time has ever had to face. It would take an awful lot to break the spine of this team, I reckon. I think Leeds simply got their tactics spot on, they overran us and smothered us.
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I think people are over analysing the game. We had just about all of our key players having an off day at the same time and Leeds exploited it. It’s rare for all the team to play poorly but I’ve seen enough this season to know we’ll put it right and move on
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we just looked like we didn't think we could get back in to it once we went behind; it's probably been a while since we've been behind in a game.
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All this argument about if Jack should have passed or not, you can not take away his brilliance to create this opportunity in the first place. He had no right to get into that position but he did. He’s some player and he’s bloody ace.
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A lot has been said about us benefiting from lack of crowd. Not a lot been said from others about it this weekend funnily enough. The way we reacted to going one down I do wonder whether if the crowd being there might have helped them react more positively.
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All this argument about if Jack should have passed or not, you can not take away his brilliance to create this opportunity in the first place. He had no right to get into that position but he did. He’s some player and he’s bloody ace.
I feel similarly, seems a bit churlish to have a go at him for not converting a chance that about 5 other current players maximum could have made.
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Sure, perhaps he could have passed but had he scored, and the keeper saved it, he didn't blaze it wide we would have been talking about one of the all-time great goals.
It was a little like his mazy dribble at the start of the second half in the play off final defeat against Fulham.
His close control allied to pace and strength is mesmerising at times. No-one in our team or our recent teams can do what he can. He does definitely hang onto the ball too long at times but he is a very rare gem.
In the future people will be telling their kids and grandkids that they saw Jack Grealish play the way they do George Best.
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I don't think it's churlish at all. I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game. I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
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I hope crowds aren't back by the time we face them in the return game at Elland Road. Won't be quite as difficult to gain revenge without 35000 savages doing their best to put us off.
I also think Friday night's game is probably the first since Lockdown where a VP crowd might have helped positively influence the result.
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I don't think it's churlish at all. I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game. I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
My thoughts exactly. Jack should have passed and looking back he will know this. No one is knocking him. He's adored by us but sometimes you have be honest and admit he's not quite the perfect player. Yet. And I agree about Southgate. He will feel justified with his lamentable misuse of Jack's unique talent. But as someone posted earlier Jack will outlive Southgate's tenure and hopefully a progressive coach will get the England job and utilise his special talents to the full.
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I don't think it's churlish at all. I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game. I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
My thoughts exactly. Jack should have passed and looking back he will know this. No one is knocking him. He's adored by us but sometimes you have be honest and admit he's not quite the perfect player. Yet. And I agree about Southgate. He will feel justified with his lamentable misuse of Jack's unique talent. But as someone posted earlier Jack will outlive Southgate's tenure and hopefully a progressive coach will get the England job and utilise his special talents to the full.
Sure, I don't totally disagree with this, and it's at least arguable that of the players on earth who could've done that dribble and not by accident (Messi, Hazard, Neymar, a few othrrs) Jack is the most likely to not convert the resulting chance. But then, all those other players are at superclubs; it remains amazing that Jack is still with us given our current position. Of course he should've scored or passed given the position, but I still can't stop loving that we have, not just a player who can do that, but a homegrown one-of-us iconic number 10 who can do that. It's just great.
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Neymar? He couldn’t have done the dribble. Only Messi of your list could have done it. Only Messi.
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Neymar? He couldn’t have done the dribble. Only Messi of your list could have done it. Only Messi.
I believe Hazard actually did it and scored for Chelsea a couple of seasons ago.
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I don't think it's churlish at all. I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game. I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
My thoughts exactly. Jack should have passed and looking back he will know this. No one is knocking him. He's adored by us but sometimes you have be honest and admit he's not quite the perfect player. Yet. And I agree about Southgate. He will feel justified with his lamentable misuse of Jack's unique talent. But as someone posted earlier Jack will outlive Southgate's tenure and hopefully a progressive coach will get the England job and utilise his special talents to the full.
Sure, I don't totally disagree with this, and it's at least arguable that of the players on earth who could've done that dribble and not by accident (Messi, Hazard, Neymar, a few othrrs) Jack is the most likely to not convert the resulting chance. But then, all those other players are at superclubs; it remains amazing that Jack is still with us given our current position. Of course he should've scored or passed given the position, but I still can't stop loving that we have, not just a player who can do that, but a homegrown one-of-us iconic number 10 who can do that. It's just great.
Absolutely. Long may it continue.
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Actually, having taken the piss all last week, it's clear that what the Villa need is some man-buns.
Only explanation for what happened.
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Actually, having taken the piss all last week, it's clear that what the Villa need is some man-buns.
Only explanation for what happened.
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A lot has been said about us benefiting from lack of crowd. Not a lot been said from others about it this weekend funnily enough. The way we reacted to going one down I do wonder whether if the crowd being there might have helped them react more positively.
Possibly would've roared the Grealish mazy run into the goal.
Actually think BCD will help us next game as a full crowd would be nervous as hell after witnessing the Leeds game so hopefully the players can reset amongst themselves and get Leeds game out of their systems.
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I don't think it's churlish at all. I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game. I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
Spot on. We could have been talking about the goal of the decade and after the run he'd gone on you can see why Jack was tempted to see if he could finish it off and really make a mark. But the point is we aren't, we're talking about a 3-0 defeat. It's a team game and if someone is better placed it doesn't matter how the chance has come about, you should aim to get the ball to whoever has the most chance of burying it. I've seen Messi do just that more than once. Score that and we probably go onto win the game. And people would still be raving about the goal and Jack's part in it if he'd passed and Watkins had buried it.
Still Jack's a fantastic player no denying, and he's come a long way since the frustrating days of not backing himself to take a player on or shoot when well placed to do so.
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Hopefully we beat them with ease at Ellen road later in the season.
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Hopefully we beat them with ease at Ellen road later in the season.
Elland, sorry.
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I don't think it's churlish at all. I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game. I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
Spot on. We could have been talking about the goal of the decade and after the run he'd gone on you can see why Jack was tempted to see if he could finish it off and really make a mark. But the point is we aren't, we're talking about a 3-0 defeat. It's a team game and if someone is better placed it doesn't matter how the chance has come about, you should aim to get the ball to whoever has the most chance of burying it. I've seen Messi do just that more than once. Score that and we probably go onto win the game. And people would still be raving about the goal and Jack's part in it if he'd passed and Watkins had buried it.
Or the keeper may have saved Ollie's shot and we go on to lose 3-0.
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I don't think it's churlish at all. I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game. I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
Spot on. We could have been talking about the goal of the decade and after the run he'd gone on you can see why Jack was tempted to see if he could finish it off and really make a mark. But the point is we aren't, we're talking about a 3-0 defeat. It's a team game and if someone is better placed it doesn't matter how the chance has come about, you should aim to get the ball to whoever has the most chance of burying it. I've seen Messi do just that more than once. Score that and we probably go onto win the game. And people would still be raving about the goal and Jack's part in it if he'd passed and Watkins had buried it.
Or the keeper may have saved Ollie's shot and we go on to lose 3-0.
Indeed he may - and I haven't assumed Watkins would have scored, just that he had a better chance of scoring because he was better placed. It's about maximising your chances.
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I've held back from the thread for a couple of days to let people get things out of their system but now on to how I saw the game.
In my opinion there was nothing much between the teams until the first goal, both sides had decent chances they hadn't been able to take and both defences had been doing a good job so the game was on a knife edge to be tipped one way or the other by a bit of brilliance or a mistake. In the end it was a couple of very small mistakes by us that turned the game, Martinez needed to push the ball away better and Mings was probably a yard to narrow which meant he couldn't deal with the 2nd ball.
After that I think the defeat was always on the cards because they had control over the game. That said the 2 goals we conceded were really disappointing because we stood off and let him pick his spot both times, he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
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he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
Agreed, but he had just demonstrated his intention to throw himself on the floor looking for a penalty at any opportunity, which might have had something to do with it. He had clearly got under Mings’ skin
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he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
Agreed, but he had just demonstrated his intention to throw himself on the floor looking for a penalty at any opportunity, which might have had something to do with it. He had clearly got under Mings’ skin
Agreed, I think they were scared to touch him in the box because he was desperate to go over for a penalty, still poor goals where we showed him too much respect though.
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he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
Agreed, but he had just demonstrated his intention to throw himself on the floor looking for a penalty at any opportunity, which might have had something to do with it. He had clearly got under Mings’ skin
Agreed, I think they were scared to touch him in the box because he was desperate to go over for a penalty, still poor goals where we showed him too much respect though.
His third goal was piss poor defending. I counted 4 players who could have tackled him or at least not allowed him the luxury of picking a spot and placing the ball there. That was the kind of goal you'd normally see in a testimonial match. We can only hope that the training ground this week will be the place to iron that kind of schoolboy defending out.
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They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.
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They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.
Yeah I understand that but 4 player's couldn't have blocked the goal between them? I think I'm just more annoyed because of who it was. Bamford is a cheating pos and we allowed him the freedom of Villa Park and that hurts.
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They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.
They shouldn't be standing off the ball though. Mings was diabolical for that. Standing up like a statue while Bamford had time to move to his left foot and shoot. Reminiscent of Mings defending against Man Utd post lockdown where Keane called him out at half time. That was the worst performance I've seen from a Villa centre half since Tuanzebe against Lewis Grabban in the 5-5. If we had any proper competition at centre half (we don't), Mings should be fighting for his place.
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I think Mings was the problem. He was all over the place.
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They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.
They shouldn't be standing off the ball though. Mings was diabolical for that. Standing up like a statue while Bamford had time to move to his left foot and shoot. Reminiscent of Mings defending against Man Utd post lockdown where Keane called him out at half time. That was the worst performance I've seen from a Villa centre half since Tuanzebe against Lewis Grabban in the 5-5. If we had any proper competition at centre half (we don't), Mings should be fighting for his place.
I watched with disbelief as Bamford was allowed time to look up pick his spot then aim the ball into that exact spot. For the life of me I can't understand why Mings didn't just stick out a foot and poke the ball away from him. As others have pointed out Bamford seems to have Mings completely rattled but he just seemed transfixed and unable to react while Bamford just picked his spot. Quite bizzare really.
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They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.
They shouldn't be standing off the ball though. Mings was diabolical for that. Standing up like a statue while Bamford had time to move to his left foot and shoot. Reminiscent of Mings defending against Man Utd post lockdown where Keane called him out at half time. That was the worst performance I've seen from a Villa centre half since Tuanzebe against Lewis Grabban in the 5-5. If we had any proper competition at centre half (we don't), Mings should be fighting for his place.
I watched with disbelief as Bamford was allowed time to look up pick his spot then aim the ball into that exact spot. For the life of me I can't understand why Mings didn't just stick out a foot and poke the ball away from him. As others have pointed out Bamford seems to have Mings completely rattled but he just seemed transfixed and unable to react while Bamford just picked his spot. Quite bizzare really.
The endless replays make it look as though they stood around for ages waiting for him to shoot, in reality it was a split second hesitation due to the fear of him diving again but at PL level that’s all that is needed. They shouldn’t have done it and hopefully will learn from it but unfortunately his premeditated diving has worked for them. Another feather in the cap for the much lauded Bielsa.
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I read the other day that Leeds got a fair play award when they let us walk in the goal in the Championship. The same Leeds who scored a goal that was sbnag out of order that kicked it all off in the first place, then had an abysmal simulation to get a player sent off. Madness.
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They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.
They shouldn't be standing off the ball though. Mings was diabolical for that. Standing up like a statue while Bamford had time to move to his left foot and shoot. Reminiscent of Mings defending against Man Utd post lockdown where Keane called him out at half time. That was the worst performance I've seen from a Villa centre half since Tuanzebe against Lewis Grabban in the 5-5. If we had any proper competition at centre half (we don't), Mings should be fighting for his place.
I watched with disbelief as Bamford was allowed time to look up pick his spot then aim the ball into that exact spot. For the life of me I can't understand why Mings didn't just stick out a foot and poke the ball away from him. As others have pointed out Bamford seems to have Mings completely rattled but he just seemed transfixed and unable to react while Bamford just picked his spot. Quite bizzare really.
The endless replays make it look as though they stood around for ages waiting for him to shoot, in reality it was a split second hesitation due to the fear of him diving again but at PL level that’s all that is needed. They shouldn’t have done it and hopefully will learn from it but unfortunately his premeditated diving has worked for them. Another feather in the cap for the much lauded Bielsa.
It's that split second in the Premier league that makes all the difference. In Premier league terms they gave him way too much time to allow him to think and pick a spot. I'm sure they will learn from that. I bet the players are gutted that Bamford of all players got a hat trick. His second was a bit special though. Martinez mouthed "wow" when the camera went on him following that goal.
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Bamford had a really good game and much as we all dislike him and think he is a limited player he looked very good on the night. The second goal was excellent and if one of our players had scored it we'd be rightly laudinging them for it. Hopefully his bubble will burst because he's an utter twat, but credit where it's due.
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I can’t help thinking that we went into the game a bit overconfident. Grealish has been looking so good this season precisely because the players we bought in the summer mean he doesn’t have to do everything himself. He wasn’t the only one who was guilty of overplaying it at times, but he should have released Watkins after that run. His whole focus should be about putting Watkins through.
Against Liverpool our front players were ruthlessly efficient, almost always releasing a team mate if that was the better option. Barkley was perhaps the least efficient, in that he took on a few opportunities that might have been better left to Trezeguet, but to be fair, it was his debut, and he still scored.
Against Leeds I felt the players were trying to do too much.
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Bamford had a really good game and much as we all dislike him and think he is a limited player he looked very good on the night. The second goal was excellent and if one of our players had scored it we'd be rightly laudinging them for it. Hopefully his bubble will burst because he's an utter twat, but credit where it's due.
Probably not far to compare as he starts every week for them but he must've scored about 50 goals since Davis last scored a league goal for us?
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I've held back from the thread for a couple of days to let people get things out of their system but now on to how I saw the game.
In my opinion there was nothing much between the teams until the first goal, both sides had decent chances they hadn't been able to take and both defences had been doing a good job so the game was on a knife edge to be tipped one way or the other by a bit of brilliance or a mistake. In the end it was a couple of very small mistakes by us that turned the game, Martinez needed to push the ball away better and Mings was probably a yard to narrow which meant he couldn't deal with the 2nd ball.
After that I think the defeat was always on the cards because they had control over the game. That said the 2 goals we conceded were really disappointing because we stood off and let him pick his spot both times, he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
I agree with this, we certainly were not outplayed for the whole game - and you're the first I've seen mention that Martinez pushed the ball back into the danger zone which should be a basic no no for keepers. Bit harsh maybe but agree he should have done better with it.
Defence were definitely wary of putting a challenge in on Bamford because of his playacting but should still have forced him onto his right foot.
Didn't one Marlon F Harewood once get a hat trick against Villa? Didn't make him a good player.
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As disappointing as the result and performance was, we are miles ahead of where most thought we would be after the opening five games. Leeds will cause problems for a few of the top teams this season with their approach to games, and have a team that functions better than the sum of its parts largely down to the coaching and management. they will run out of steam about half way through the season when fatigue sets in.
The Villa defence looked like it did before lockdown. Lets hope it is a blip and not a return to normality. Mings was terrible most of last season, and we would benefit with better competition being brought in in January if we can offload Engels or Hause. Cash had a bad game, but we do have other good options there if he hits a bad run of form.
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I don't think Cash played that badly, he was just overrun as Leeds doubled up down that side, with Trez not providing much support, then Traore providing even less.
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As disappointing as the result and performance was, we are miles ahead of where most thought we would be after the opening five games. Leeds will cause problems for a few of the top teams this season with their approach to games, and have a team that functions better than the sum of its parts largely down to the coaching and management. they will run out of steam about half way through the season when fatigue sets in.
The Villa defence looked like it did before lockdown. Lets hope it is a blip and not a return to normality. Mings was terrible most of last season, and we would benefit with better competition being brought in in January if we can offload Engels or Hause. Cash had a bad game, but we do have other good options there if he hits a bad run of form.
I don’t think Cash had a bad game, he just diDent get the expected support against a very good winger
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Didnt see the game but from the highlights Mings was ball watching for the first goal with Bamford lurking behind but not sure if he or Targett should have been looking after him.
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Mings had a bad game as did a few others, but him and Konsa have formed a superb partnershipr 10 or games at the end of last season and beginning of this. Nothing wrong with calling out a bad game, but let’s put it in the context of the other really good recent performances
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If we can get three points against Southampton - and 5 wins from 6 - then all this will be forgotten about.
They will all be rested and fresh. Take the game to them from the off.
I would be tempted to give Traore a half.
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I think we can clearly see Deans first X1 id all fit and the obvious like for like changes if / when needed so fully expect same starting line up against Soton.
And to be fair in the first 4 games they have not done badly at all