Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 09:56:49 PM

Title: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 09:56:49 PM
Player ratings

MartŪnez 0
Cash 1
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trťzťguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0

Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Bad English on October 23, 2020, 09:57:59 PM
Player ratings

MartŪnez 0
Cash 1
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trťzťguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0

Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
A generous appraisal.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: LukeJames on October 23, 2020, 09:57:59 PM
We're probably not going to win the League.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Nev on October 23, 2020, 09:58:17 PM
I had a feeling this would happen. I was fearfull but optimistic in the match thread but to be honest we were second best everywhere tonight.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 23, 2020, 09:58:38 PM
Very generous Mr Shin. We got what we deserved. Dean Smith also a -5 for me. Tactically destroyed. What a terrible way to enter the weekend.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ez on October 23, 2020, 09:59:31 PM
For all Smith's excellent tactics against liverpool he had no answer to Leeds tonight.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: LukeJames on October 23, 2020, 09:59:46 PM
Smith got absolutely destroyed by Bielsa, hopefully he learns from it. Right it the fuck off quickly and move on.

12 out of 15 points is beyong anybodies expectations.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Mister E on October 23, 2020, 09:59:48 PM
If there's something good to come out of it, maybe it's a need to improve the intensity of our game. I sensed that there was a bit of complacency; we got mugged, big time. Against Leicester we managed the game well; tonight we never started and conceded too much to the well-organised oppo.
Sounds like we gave Bamford far too much space and time.

Good test for Dean and the players: come back stronger.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: manic-road on October 23, 2020, 10:00:03 PM
Reality check tonight, we had a few chances but Leeds were better than us all over the pitch. I have never rated Bamford but his finishing was exceptional tonight.
Leeds work hard and with plenty of skill, I think we were lucky to only lose by three tonight.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: CT on October 23, 2020, 10:00:21 PM
They were quicker, sharper, and just better.

Once Jack missed his goal of the season chance, we fell apart.

Bamford pisses me off so much though, all the backbone of a jellyfish and then the c*** scores three.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 23, 2020, 10:00:34 PM
Ridiculous first post to the post match thread. Leeds deserves it and probably by more. In hindsight we should have been much tighter everywhere.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2020, 10:01:19 PM
Dreadful to a man really. An all round shocking display. Leeds are excellently prepared and coached and we set out as if we had no clue what we were up against. Start of the season had been great, but itís a really poor night for Dean and his staff. We looked totally unprepared and worse than that didnít do anything to change it once it was clear we were struggling.

Really bad and all of them should reflect on that.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: robbo1874 on October 23, 2020, 10:01:53 PM
Not too down.had to happen sooner or later. I thought Leicester would do us. How do you come back from that?
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: nordenvillain on October 23, 2020, 10:02:04 PM
Thank god we've got 12 points already. Don't think our midfield got anywhere near theirs  and never got a foot in. Impressed with their pressing and fast movement 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ez on October 23, 2020, 10:02:13 PM
Our build up play looked so lethargic  compared to theirs. They won the ball back far too easily.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: villadelph on October 23, 2020, 10:02:24 PM
Our run-in isn't too bad, aside from Arsenal.

Make it right, get some points.

Fuck this one, onto the next.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Axl Rose on October 23, 2020, 10:02:37 PM
Would love Bielsa in charge of Villa.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Stu on October 23, 2020, 10:02:53 PM
Crap performance and got what we deserved. Take it on board, look at the fuck ups again, and onto the next match.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Vegas on October 23, 2020, 10:03:16 PM
Leeds were good. Their shape and work rate made us look leggy and out of ideas by the end.

I would have put Nakamba on for Trez after 60 but itís easy with hindsight.

In and amongst some utter Leeds wankfest commentary Savage made a good point about us possibly having one too many attack minded players against a team with that level of work rate.

Cash and Konsa were good. Mings lost the plot a bit. Grealish, one magic run aside, had his worst game for a while. McGinn looked slightly off the pace, and Iím still not totally convinced by Watkins.

But one bad game doesnít ruin our start, I think leeds are a as good side.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: BoVillan esq on October 23, 2020, 10:03:33 PM
We didn't come out second half, didn't compete, they wanted it more and played fearlessly and hard, problem we have now is and more importantly, will other sides looking at this say '' oh yes, that's the Villa we know''. or do we respond.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 23, 2020, 10:03:53 PM
We got schooled tonight. I had a feeling they'd beat us but not like that. Only positive is it could have been a cricket score.

We go again.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: CT on October 23, 2020, 10:04:17 PM
That reminded me of the 0-3 home defeat to Wimbledon all those years ago.

In form, looking good, and then bosh!
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2020, 10:04:17 PM
Oh and as I said on the match thread anyone who posts something suggesting a player is rubbish just before they play Villa should face a temporary ban!
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 23, 2020, 10:04:56 PM
Everyone who knows anything about football at the top level these days knows that the best teams attack in patterns that owe a fuck of a lot to Bielsa. Tonight we saw a Bielsa team doing just that, and it paying off despite relatively modest resources (Bamford a star? No Kalvin Phillips?), while their more expensive opponents ran around like a bunch of strangers, reliant on individuals to do the unexpected rather than working together to produce it.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: BC54 VFC on October 23, 2020, 10:05:45 PM
Sometimes you just have to accept you've been beaten by a better team on the night. Disappointing performances from some of our higher profile players - McGinn, Barkley, Mings - especially the former whose backside was really 'found out'!
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: themossman on October 23, 2020, 10:06:40 PM
Crouch just said the fullbacks were hung out to dry, which is true.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 23, 2020, 10:06:59 PM
Suspected this might happen, Wimbledon at home 1990 anyone?
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 23, 2020, 10:07:08 PM
This was going to happen at some point and maybe we can learn from it. What matters is how we respond against Southampton.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ez on October 23, 2020, 10:07:20 PM
Sad to see no reaction from us after they scored. All we did was throw Traore on and hope for the best.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: dave17 on October 23, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Crouch just said the fullbacks were hung out to dry, which is true.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Stu on October 23, 2020, 10:08:38 PM
Leeds looked shite and got sussed by Wolves in the week, Monty. It worked out for them today, that's it.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Grande Pablo on October 23, 2020, 10:08:43 PM
Leeds almost played us at our own game - we decided not to press as we've done season to date, maybe not to get exposed on the break...but we got exposed on the break.

El Ghazi will be waiting in the car park for Bamford to come out.

Off to Leeds tomorrow to see junior who's at Beckett doing her MA.  Wish me luck.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: steamer on October 23, 2020, 10:09:06 PM
It was inevitable, we were not going from scrapping to stay up to winning the league.
Leeds out passed us, out ran us and out thought us.
We knew exacctly what their plan was and we let them play it.
some dredfull peformances all across the pitch, maybe Cash who was run ragged tried the hardest but had little back up.
sobering us up for the next outing
As an aside, why is there a downer on here about Bamford, scored a hat trick and seemed decent to me.
The bench as has been said does little to inspire and Tarore was caught up in the Malaise when he came on
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 23, 2020, 10:10:06 PM
Next five games

Southampton H
Arsenal A
Brighton H
West Ham A
Newcastle H

More than enough opportunity to put tonight behind us. But we have be much better because if Bamford good tonight, then Ings is many steps above. We give him space we will be fucked.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: nick harper on October 23, 2020, 10:10:56 PM
They play with an incredible intensity and we nowhere near matched them. Once we gave up playing from the back, they kept winning all the second balls. Cash had a fantastic game but had to do the work of two players as did Targett. It was a top performance by Leeds and we were lucky it was only three.

Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and move on.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2020, 10:11:46 PM
Also anybody who doesnít rate Bielsa - look at that Leeds team and ask yourself how many players youíd swap into our team. Bielsaís coaching is why Leeds are where they are, heís doing an exceptional job.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: rougegorge on October 23, 2020, 10:12:06 PM
We were looking better just before they scored the first and then we caved in. Leeds were good, but a few of our players let their heads drop.

It reminded me of performances last season where we defended narrowly and invited crosses in and the manager didn't react. The full backs received little protection.

With Leeds committing players forward as well, we failed to exploit the space when we did turn over possession.

A very disappointing display, but obviously 12 points is a great return so far. A bit of a cliche, but the acid test is how we bounce back next week.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2020, 10:12:48 PM
Whether we like them or not they're a good team who've quickly adapted to demands of top level football. We saw tonight why they scored 3 at Liverpool and got a draw v Man. City.

Still dosen't excuse that shocker of a second half (and the 1st wasn't great either).

Leeds won't be far off finishing top half so finishing above them will represent a pretty good season imo.

Up to us to show some balls and turn up and compete next weekend as it would criminal to go on a long winless run now given the good stuff we've shown so far this season.

Bad defeats are happening every week in premier league this season, tonight was our turn to get a rodgering.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: myf on October 23, 2020, 10:13:16 PM
horrible to watch. passed off the park. Harrison, costa and Bamford ripped us a new one. especially poor from mings, mcginn, targett and watkins
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Vegas on October 23, 2020, 10:13:30 PM
Leeds looked shite and got sussed by Wolves

They looked pretty good first half, then Wolves adjusted tactically which we didnít tonight
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 10:13:31 PM
Most important thing from tonight is to learn from it.

As shit as tonight was, all of us would have been delighted with 12 points from 5 games before the season started. Bielsa did well but until his side sticks 7 past Liverpool then he's just a shit Dean Smith.

Now let's smash the shite out of Southampton.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:13:43 PM
We had no answer to the way they played. Some awful individual performances out there. No idea why Smith could not see what was happening.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 23, 2020, 10:13:55 PM
Leeds looked shite and got sussed by Wolves in the week, Monty. It worked out for them today, that's it.

I'm not saying they're elite, but they try and play elite football despite the players they've got. Sometimes it will work better than others, it's not like they've got Busquets and Lewandowski in there, but we clearly didn't have the plans they had and it was starkly obvious.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: tony scott on October 23, 2020, 10:14:30 PM
Well played Leeds, they played in very predictable way they were brilliant down the flanks, Iím sure our coaching staff prepared the players for this but we didnít have a plan B when they were constantly getting round the back. I think it would have been a very brave manager to change it radically after 4 straight wins, I think we will learn a lot from this 12 from 15 UTV
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 23, 2020, 10:14:43 PM
Had Jack scored or better passed to an open Ollie after that spectacular run this game would have been so different. Itís harsh to criticize him after that run, but that decision there, in isolation might have decided the game, or certainly what could have happened after. And he did much the same in the game vs Leicester. He has to be better at getting others involved at the key moments. If he tries to do it all alone we will be back where we were last season. It cannot be all about Jack.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Steve67 on October 23, 2020, 10:15:15 PM
Humbled tonight.  They had more of everything, desire, pace, better decision making, busting a gut to get behind the ball in the 95 minute.  We were crap and I hope we are not hauled back in to the crap that we saw last season.  I still think we should have signed a strong midfielder but that's the Smith way. We were too deep for long period and our midfield need to introduce themselves to each other.  Poor all round, could have been different had Grealish scored earlier on. 12 from 15, I'll take that.  Be good to get 9 from the next 15.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 23, 2020, 10:15:36 PM
Memories of 1991 when they stuffed us 4-1 on telly.Lee Chapman.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: itbrvilla on October 23, 2020, 10:15:42 PM
Had Jack scored or better passed to an open Ollie after that spectacular run this game would have been so different. Itís harsh to criticize him after that run, but that decision there, in isolation might have decided the game, or certainly what could have happened after. And he did much the same in the game vs Leicester. He has to be better at getting others involved at the key moments. If he tries to do it all alone we will be back where we were last season. It cannot be all about Jack.
Did the same at Leicester when there was a better option. Needs to make the pass more.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: richtheholtender on October 23, 2020, 10:15:50 PM
Cash defensively is a serious concern. The Liverpool game highlighted it as well.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: stubbsyandy on October 23, 2020, 10:16:04 PM
Player ratings

MartŪnez 0
Cas
Player ratings

MartŪnez 0
Cash 1
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trťzťguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0

Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trťzťguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0

Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0
And the purpose of this ridiculous post is...???
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: stevo_st on October 23, 2020, 10:16:33 PM
Shit that we didn't try and mix it up / try something different, three at the back or 2 up top.

Only one sub used
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 10:17:55 PM
So as people can show they don't understand black humour and also lack the basic ability to quote a post correctly.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: BC54 VFC on October 23, 2020, 10:18:26 PM
It was inevitable, we were not going from scrapping to stay up to winning the league.
Leeds out passed us, out ran us and out thought us.
We knew exacctly what their plan was and we let them play it.
some dredfull peformances all across the pitch, maybe Cash who was run ragged tried the hardest but had little back up.
sobering us up for the next outing
As an aside, why is there a downer on here about Bamford, scored a hat trick and seemed decent to me.
The bench as has been said does little to inspire and Tarore was caught up in the Malaise when he came on
Couldn't agree more with your Bamford comment. Proved himself to be a very good footballer tonight and came over well in his post-match interview.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: passport1 on October 23, 2020, 10:18:32 PM
Disappointing  but sometimes  you  get outplayed by a better team on the day. The key is to respond in the next one.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: nick harper on October 23, 2020, 10:18:53 PM
Cash defensively is a serious concern. The Liverpool game highlighted it as well.

You must be joking. They were coming at him in waves down their left.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Steve67 on October 23, 2020, 10:19:01 PM
Cash defensively is a serious concern. The Liverpool game highlighted it as well.

I presume you are being sarcastic?  Hung out to dry by the lazy fecker Trezeguet.  Cash was the only who did his job properly in defence.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: mrfuse on October 23, 2020, 10:19:10 PM
This was going to happen at some point and maybe we can learn from it. What matters is how we respond against Southampton.

Yeah exactly. I said in the match thread no changes make them go and put it right.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: stubbsyandy on October 23, 2020, 10:19:25 PM
So as people can show they don't understand black humour and also lack the basic ability to quote a post correctly.
Fair play...I feel a bit pissed off so jumped the gun...soz
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: CT Villan on October 23, 2020, 10:20:01 PM
We were neutered by Bielsa.

Deano et al had no response. The poor tactical performance translated into languid, sloppy play from the team, reminiscent of last season pre-lockdown. Felt sorry for Matty Cash by the end.

"We go again"ô
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Stinkin_Thinkin on October 23, 2020, 10:20:04 PM
First half I thought we shaded it, however the warning signs were there.
Second half Bamford goes down screaming like his careers over 2mins later he bangs one in. Then a couple more. The third you could see the fear of the defenders, we had 3 around him.

Leeds attack like aircraft in formation just before full time they had 6 players charging at Villa in a line across the pitch
The international break really destroyed our momentum we had to start with that eleven that had done so well previously, on paper we win this easily but we didn't match their 100mph work rate and relentlessness.
Grealish nearly scores goal of the century, aside from that in the 2nd half was ineffective along with Barkley, McGinn and Watkins. Mings seemed to go on a mad one and start charging all over the pitch after the 3rd.
Back down to earth with a bump.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2020, 10:20:19 PM
Next five games

Southampton H
Arsenal A
Brighton H
West Ham A
Newcastle H

More than enough opportunity to put tonight behind us. But we have be much better because if Bamford good tonight, then Ings is many steps above. We give him space we will be fucked.

Southampton really had our number in the two games last season, we were never in either despite only being 1 down until last minute at St Marys.

In a funny way I'm more worried about that than Arsenal away where we'll get space and chances on counter attack.

Southampton will be really good yardstick for what our team mentality will be this season.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: AV82EC on October 23, 2020, 10:21:28 PM
Overloaded out wide and Smith didnít have an answer. That said shockingly bad all over the pitch. Cash and Konsa about the only highlights.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on October 23, 2020, 10:21:31 PM
The really worrying thing was at 0-2 down, we threw in the towel all over the pitch. Mings (arguably our worst player tonight) trotting up the pitch like some kind of superstar. Hoofing the ball back to Leeds at every opportunity. Theres a horrible soft centre still there, as that could have been any score for a finish tonight. Leeds breaking six on three on us in the 92nd minute said it all.

Tactically, completely destroyed and the old Smith failings there for all to see with his in-game changes. Were were crying out for a tactical reshuffle but what he do. Like for like change, Traore for Trez with the net result we got even more torched on our right side. So many non performers tonight and the fact Smith didnt feel like hooking two of them cant be good for squad morale. For decisive in game changes, see Bielsa after 20 mins tonight.

Jack scores that worldly and maybe things would be different. But to be honest I dont think so as Leeds had our number in midfield particularly at that point. Smith's tactics of having McGinn and Barkley so far ahead of Luiz were horribly exposed. Luiz didnt have a chance, was crying out for McGinn to sit next to him or bring in Hourihane/Nakamba. I dont think we will get away with a midfield set up for much longer than includes McGinn, Barkley and Grealish so far ahead of the ball and making pitiful efforts to get it back.

Martinez 7 - dont think he could have done more with the second, looked sharp in general
Cash 4 - battled but destroyed lets be honest against an outstanding Harrison
Konsa 7 - our best defender by a long way, covering for Cash as best he could all night
Mings 3 - hopeless, timber legs stuck in the ground while Bamford embarrassingly turned onto his left foot and passed the third in. Terrible for all three goals actually.
Targett 4 - not my favourite player by any stretch but was doing ok until getting overrun into the second half, no support from Grealish
Trez 4 - anonymous with the ball but we sure did miss his graft without the ball when he went off
Luiz 6 - did his best but hopelessly outnumbered, sold down the river by Smith's tactics
McGinn 4 - anonymous for most of the game, unfortunately was up against superior athletes tonight and it showed
Barkley 3 - absolutely useless and should have been subbed immediately after his efforts to stop their second goal
Grealish 6 - should have had a peno and had two kicked off the line but lost the ball a lot tonight and his effort without the ball were risible, pathetic yellow card too
Watkins 4 - really poor in first half when he got lots of possession, made no impact in the second but we stopped playing at that point
Traore 3 - yikes, a bit of a horror show. looked miles off the pace but balance of team was totally wrong

We go again I guess
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2020, 10:21:37 PM
Shit that we didn't try and mix it up / try something different, three at the back or 2 up top.

Only one sub used

Should've put Davis on at 1 down.

Mind you we give Bamford all the stick in the world and he's probably stuck in around 50 goals since Kienan last got one in the league!
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 10:21:47 PM
No real reason we shouldn't be on at least 19 points after 10 games, i'll have some of that.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Drummond on October 23, 2020, 10:22:21 PM
2nd after 5 games.

Disappoint result but overall still doing better than expected.

But that was a very poor second half. Bielsa made the right substitution for them as they were lucky not to be down to 10.

They were faster and appeared hungrier. We gave their players too much time whilst they gave us none.

A lesson to be learned. Let's not give in though, so far this season on results we're the second best team. Tonight was bad night, we'll come, again.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on October 23, 2020, 10:22:33 PM
I thought the grass looked shorter than for the Liverpool game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Aldridge Villa on October 23, 2020, 10:22:35 PM
Had bad vibes about this one and sadly proved well founded. Far too complacent, but I suppose we were due a bad one if you consider end of last season and start of this. Write it off, improvement v Southampton I suggest is likely.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ROBBO on October 23, 2020, 10:22:43 PM
That to a large extent was down to Dean Smith, we were getting killed on the flanks and he did nothing. Bielsa took a player off in the first half, Dean would never do that. We really needed to go more defensive just as Wolves did as they can only play one way, we were over run first half but i did expect us to improve as the game went on. Jack had a very poor game and without him firing we suffer.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: mrfuse on October 23, 2020, 10:23:15 PM
It was inevitable, we were not going from scrapping to stay up to winning the league.
Leeds out passed us, out ran us and out thought us.
We knew exacctly what their plan was and we let them play it.
some dredfull peformances all across the pitch, maybe Cash who was run ragged tried the hardest but had little back up.
sobering us up for the next outing
As an aside, why is there a downer on here about Bamford, scored a hat trick and seemed decent to me.
The bench as has been said does little to inspire and Tarore was caught up in the Malaise when he came on
Couldn't agree more with your Bamford comment. Proved himself to be a very good footballer tonight and came over well in his post-match interview.

I'm not sure how to put it about Bamford he's just a twunt.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ktvillan on October 23, 2020, 10:23:32 PM
Villa 7- Liverpool 2
Villa 0-Leeds 3
Treat triumph and disaster as imposters - the truth lies somewhere in between.   
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 10:24:28 PM
Villa 7- Liverpool 2
Villa 0-Leeds 3
Treat triumph and disaster as imposters - the truth lies somewhere in between.   

We won 7-5 on aggregate so fuck all teams that start with an L.

8-5 if we include Leicester. L clubs are our bitches.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on October 23, 2020, 10:25:33 PM
Cash defensively is a serious concern. The Liverpool game highlighted it as well.

I havent seen much of an improvement on Guilbert so far, I must say....
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 23, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Overloaded out wide and Smith didnít have an answer. That said shockingly bad all over the pitch. Cash and Konsa about the only highlights.

I know he didn't have the best game and made some frustrating decisions, but we mustn't be totally spoiled - Jack did nearly score literally the best ever goal.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Proposition Joe on October 23, 2020, 10:26:03 PM
We were looking better just before they scored the first and then we caved in. Leeds were good, but a few of our players let their heads drop.

Exactly this.  At the point they scored, you would never have predicted a 0-3.  It was disappointing the way we collapsed after conceding, though.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 23, 2020, 10:27:11 PM
Very even first half and we were on top first 10 mins of the 2nd and could/should have been ahead. But then the wheels fell off and we got slaughtered. It happens.

We were far better than some are saying on here but they ran over the top of us in the last half hour, we had no response. Bamford is a shithouse but he took his goals brilliantly.

Cash did well with little help, Martinez conceded 3 but did nothing wrong and Konsa looked assured again. The rest were off the pace and it showed.

Oh and Gabby, shut the feck up next time.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: cdbullyweefan on October 23, 2020, 10:27:39 PM
We were never going to win every game. Shame it had to be those ******, but 37 wins will still be a decent season.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 10:27:41 PM
Our last 2 league defeats have seen us collapse after going 1 down. Something that needs to be rectified.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:28:15 PM
The really worrying thing was at 0-2 down, we threw in the towel all over the pitch. Mings (arguably our worst player tonight) trotting up the pitch like some kind of superstar. Hoofing the ball back to Leeds at every opportunity. Theres a horrible soft centre still there, as that could have been any score for a finish tonight. Leeds breaking six on three on us in the 92nd minute said it all.

Tactically, completely destroyed and the old Smith failings there for all to see with his in-game changes. Were were crying out for a tactical reshuffle but what he do. Like for like change, Traore for Trez with the net result we got even more torched on our right side. So many non performers tonight and the fact Smith didnt feel like hooking two of them cant be good for squad morale. For decisive in game changes, see Bielsa after 20 mins tonight.

Jack scores that worldly and maybe things would be different. But to be honest I dont think so as Leeds had our number in midfield particularly at that point. Smith's tactics of having McGinn and Barkley so far ahead of Luiz were horribly exposed. Luiz didnt have a chance, was crying out for McGinn to sit next to him or bring in Hourihane/Nakamba. I dont think we will get away with a midfield set up for much longer than includes McGinn, Barkley and Grealish so far ahead of the ball and making pitiful efforts to get it back.

Martinez 7 - dont think he could have done more with the second, looked sharp in general
Cash 4 - battled but destroyed lets be honest against an outstanding Harrison
Konsa 7 - our best defender by a long way, covering for Cash as best he could all night
Mings 3 - hopeless, timber legs stuck in the ground while Bamford embarrassingly turned onto his left foot and passed the third in. Terrible for all three goals actually.
Targett 4 - not my favourite player by any stretch but was doing ok until getting overrun into the second half, no support from Grealish
Trez 4 - anonymous with the ball but we sure did miss his graft without the ball when he went off
Luiz 6 - did his best but hopelessly outnumbered, sold down the river by Smith's tactics
McGinn 4 - anonymous for most of the game, unfortunately was up against superior athletes tonight and it showed
Barkley 3 - absolutely useless and should have been subbed immediately after his efforts to stop their second goal
Grealish 6 - should have had a peno and had two kicked off the line but lost the ball a lot tonight and his effort without the ball were risible, pathetic yellow card too
Watkins 4 - really poor in first half when he got lots of possession, made no impact in the second but we stopped playing at that point
Traore 3 - yikes, a bit of a horror show. looked miles off the pace but balance of team was totally wrong

We go again I guess
This summed up the game for me.
A shit show
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ktvillan on October 23, 2020, 10:28:46 PM
To be fair that was pretty even until the hour mark and first goal was going to dictate how the game went.  We started the second half well and just looked to be getting on top when they scored. After that we fell apart, and they could see it and grew in confidence and energy.  Doesn't say much for our resilience when going behind, and something Dean needs to work on.

Ultimately Leeds thoroughly deserved t although I hate Bamford even more after that theatrical penalty appeal.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithe on October 23, 2020, 10:29:40 PM
They were great, fair play a deserved easy win

Bielsa is a fantastic coach, negated Jack really well. Sometimes you just accept the defeat and the fact youíve been done fair and square and move on.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: adrenachrome on October 23, 2020, 10:29:45 PM
I thought the grass looked shorter than for the Liverpool game.

Good point.

We need more grass; longer and lusher. Break out the hydroponic lamps and sprinklers. 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Luke8 on October 23, 2020, 10:29:53 PM
Our last 2 league defeats have seen us collapse after going 1 down. Something that needs to be rectified.

If we are undefeated in the eight games inbetween each time though we will probably be alright. 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 23, 2020, 10:30:12 PM
Our last 2 league defeats have seen us collapse after going 1 down. Something that needs to be rectified.

The good thing is after Man U we came back much better until tonight. So we have to do the same again. Next 5 games gives us a huge opportunity to put things right very quickly.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 23, 2020, 10:31:36 PM
They were great, fair play a deserved easy win

Bielsa is a fantastic coach, negated Jack really well. Sometimes you just accept the defeat and the fact youíve been done fair and square and move on.

This is how I feel. Nothing wrong with getting bested by Marcelo Bielsa.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2020, 10:33:33 PM
It was bad all round, but manager and players both take plenty of blame. We set up wrong and didnít respond, but equally players performed well below their best.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Bermuda Villa on October 23, 2020, 10:34:32 PM
27 Shots says it all, this is going back to the numbers of last season. The midfield were dreadful and Dean just stood and watched it happen, I don't know why he never changed things. That is the first time we have gone behind and the reaction was not good to see.

The most frustrating thing for me is the narrow back 4 and trying to deny space through the middle, Leeds are all about width and we played into their hands. We competed first half but some of the defending was last ditch stuff. He could have pushed the back 4 higher up the pitch and tried to compress the midfield to help us but the worrying thing for me was how isolated Ollie was in the second half. If you are going to play Jack, Ross and SJM bombing forward then you have to have another holding midfield player in there. Dougie was overrun time and time again.


Still 12 points on the board after 5 games, I will have a bit of that after last year.

UTV
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Legion on October 23, 2020, 10:34:37 PM
Bielsa is a quality manager. Bamford is still a prick for what he did the other season, regardless of the hat-trick. Leeds were simply better.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2020, 10:35:01 PM
Our last 2 league defeats have seen us collapse after going 1 down. Something that needs to be rectified.

Yep good point. Need to respond a lot better to adversity.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Luke8 on October 23, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
Iíd agree with those saying that it was fairly even for 55 minutes. Both team had probably three/four decent chances at that point and the key first goal could have gone either way. Our reaction to conceding was disappointing though. Have to say that Leeds were excellent from the goal onwards and that performance would see off several others teams as well.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 10:35:53 PM
Klopp and some of the best players around were the same a few weeks ago. All seemed absolutely clueless to stop what was happening and made no tactical changes. It happens. Hopefully not very often to us.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: stubbsyandy on October 23, 2020, 10:36:26 PM
Dean can learn a lot from Bielsa tonight and I hope he does.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: frank black on October 23, 2020, 10:37:11 PM
Should have bought Traore on, heíd have changed the game I reckon
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ktvillan on October 23, 2020, 10:37:39 PM
I think people are being unfair on McGinn - he played really well first half but wasn't alone in losing it second half.  The whole midfield went missing for about 20 minutes. 

For all Trezeguet's "putting in shifts" it's noticeable how a lot of the commentators and pundits were saying Cash was left stranded two against one far too often- showed several examples where Trez failed to track Alioski who kept overlapping Harrison down our right flank.  But ditto with Grealish down our left flank.

I thought Grealish, by his standards,  was poor tonight - great individual run but should either have shot sooner or played Watkins in - wide open at the far post.  Otherwise ran up a load of blind alleys and wasn't incisive enough.

And our defenders allowing Bamtwat time and space to go onto his left foot for goals two and three was garbage.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Legion on October 23, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
Should have bought Traore on, heíd have changed the game I reckon

He was brought on.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Damo70 on October 23, 2020, 10:39:59 PM
Some key decisions went against us but ultimately we were second best on the night.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:40:07 PM
They were great, fair play a deserved easy win

Bielsa is a fantastic coach, negated Jack really well. Sometimes you just accept the defeat and the fact youíve been done fair and square and move on.

This is how I feel. Nothing wrong with getting bested by Marcelo Bielsa.
it was the nature of the defeat and our reaction to being over run and conceding the first goal that I have a problem with.
Some really poor performances out there as well.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 23, 2020, 10:40:47 PM
Should have bought Traore on, heíd have changed the game I reckon

He was brought on.
Think he knows that
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 23, 2020, 10:42:04 PM
A chastening experience, I'd settle for top 4 now.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: steamer on October 23, 2020, 10:42:25 PM
Should have bought Traore on, heíd have changed the game I reckon

He was brought on.
I think he was being sarcastic
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2020, 10:42:59 PM
First half ended up being fairly even after a very strong start from them. Second half, they came out firing, there was a 5 minute superstar advert interlude where Grealish literally nearly scored the goal of any season, before they resumed their dominance.
I actually thought McGinn had a decent 1sr half, but our problems in the second half completely stemmed from the centre of midfield, where McGinn, barklay and luiz were largely anonymous. The full backs were too narrow allowing Harrison and costa too much room, and thatís where the goals came from. Dean needed to pick up on that, and push them further forward, dropping luiz and McGinn deeper.
Grealish nearly scored goal of the century but otherwise was really well managed by Leeds and again held on to the ball too long. Any criticism of Watkinsís is harsh, I thought he ran the line well.

Finally, itís one game, we got battered, we have 12 out of 15. Itís a bit shit, but generally at this moment in time, itís ok everything is cool and the gang
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: robbo1874 on October 23, 2020, 10:46:07 PM
The first half was amazing to watch but I thought Leeds would run out of steam. Sadly it was us that did. I do hate Leeds, but they were brilliant. You canít take that away from them.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: rougegorge on October 23, 2020, 10:46:17 PM
Should have bought Traore on, heíd have changed the game I reckon

He was brought on.
I think he was being sarcastic
This may be unfair so early in the season, but he's the one signing I am doubtful about. However, he hasn't showed much in the limited time so far to dissuade me
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Steve67 on October 23, 2020, 10:46:26 PM
As soon as BT put the 'as it stands table' up on the telly box, we capitulated. Nose bleeds all over the pitch.  Fair result, shame it was the cheating fucker who got them their goals but that's life.  You learn more from your defeats than you do from your wins. 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 23, 2020, 10:47:23 PM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

We gifted them the ball so many times tonight that only losing 0-3 is somewhat of a let off from the hammering that could've easily happened. We were very poor, but in all honestly we were due a loss anyway.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Legion on October 23, 2020, 10:47:44 PM
A whoosh moment, then. Sorry.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: steamer on October 23, 2020, 10:48:47 PM
Agree
Shit happens, lets prepare and move on.
Still worried about our ability to change games from the bench as options are limited.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Luke8 on October 23, 2020, 10:49:46 PM
Should have bought Traore on, heíd have changed the game I reckon

He was brought on.
I think he was being sarcastic
This may be unfair so early in the season, but he's the one signing I am doubtful about. However, he hasn't showed much in the limited time so far to dissuade me

Heís played 42 minutes in the league. I reckon we might need to give him a bit more time.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Steve67 on October 23, 2020, 10:49:59 PM
When we are bad, we are really bad and the Barkley's and McGinn's are anonymous.  We only know one way of playing and that will be our undoing time and again.  However, we have five piss easy games ahead of us.  Win them all.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 23, 2020, 10:50:42 PM
That was disappointing. Agree that thought it was even until their goal but we went to absolute pieces from there. Fucking hate Leeds so tough one to take.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on October 23, 2020, 10:51:20 PM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

We gifted them the ball so many times tonight that only losing 0-3 is somewhat of a let off from the hammering that could've easily happened. We were very poor, but in all honestly we were due a loss anyway.

Whatever about his horror pass, Barkley's efforts to stop Leeds from that point on were an absolute disgrace. Should have warranted an immediate substitution and an absolute torching in the dressing room afterwards. Mistakes happen but his lack of effort was completely unacceptable.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: themossman on October 23, 2020, 10:51:22 PM
I think that was first time weíve been behind this season and we didnít cope with it well.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 23, 2020, 10:51:41 PM
Canít remember Watkins getting any change out of their CBís either even when we were on top. Same with Barkley.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

We gifted them the ball so many times tonight that only losing 0-3 is somewhat of a let off from the hammering that could've easily happened. We were very poor, but in all honestly we were due a loss anyway.
Berkeley pass for their first goal was the game changer, he got even worse after that.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Villa Lew on October 23, 2020, 10:53:30 PM
Thought Leeds were superb tonight totally outplayed and out fought us, they never once rested on their laurels, even when they were 3 up, they just kept going forward, look at their attack in the last minute of the match, deserve all the plaudits they are getting. I was just grateful it wasn't a heavier defeat.

Dean can't think much of his bench, losing 3 nil and only brings one player on. Still looking on the plus side, it's only one defeat in 5 games, let's hope we will come back against Southampton.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:54:13 PM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

We gifted them the ball so many times tonight that only losing 0-3 is somewhat of a let off from the hammering that could've easily happened. We were very poor, but in all honestly we were due a loss anyway.

Whatever about his horror pass, Barkley's efforts to stop Leeds from that point on were an absolute disgrace. Should have warranted an immediate substitution and an absolute torching in the dressing room afterwards. Mistakes happen but his lack of effort was completely unacceptable.
Agree
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 23, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
Thatís why Barkley lost his place at Chelsea, inconsistency. Heís been great in his first 2 games but looked poor tonight.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: themossman on October 23, 2020, 10:55:34 PM
Iím a tiny little bit worried about Watkins. He was fine today, made a decent first of his chances. But he struggles to impose himself on defenders which will cause us issues against lower half teams and he still seems a bit short on confidence (strangely, after his hat trick) hence all the extra touches.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 23, 2020, 10:56:43 PM
Results like this happen, Southampton now becomes a very pivotal game for the momentum of our season.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 23, 2020, 10:57:05 PM
In his defence, I don't think Barkley (or Jack for that matter) look 100% fit.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Fred Crump on October 23, 2020, 10:57:48 PM
Fair play to Leeds, they played us off the park tonight. They were better all over the pitch but as others have said, I worry about our strength in depth . In particular midfield is light , we need to have the players able to turn to plan b if some players are having an off night. Neither Hourihane or Nakamba would have made a difference tonight. Where was Ramsey ? Not sure if he was on the bench.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: andyh on October 23, 2020, 10:57:51 PM
The only good thing about tonight is that we didnít have to go.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RichardBatchelor on October 23, 2020, 10:58:36 PM
Player ratings

MartŪnez 0
Cash 1
Konsa 0
Mings 0
Targett 0
McGinn -5
Douglas Luiz 0
Trťzťguet 0
Barkley 0
Grealish 1
Watkins 0

Traore 0
Manager and coaches 0

We have 12/15 points and Leeds were superb tonight. Maybe reconsider when youíve calmed down.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 11:00:19 PM
Maybe post after reading more comments.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Stinkin_Thinkin on October 23, 2020, 11:01:28 PM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 11:02:42 PM
Lowlights for anyone interested

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12112751
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: themossman on October 23, 2020, 11:04:13 PM
Bear in mind as well, Leeds had 3 key players out, including their best player. They reshuffled the whole team to plug the gap then had to reshuffle it again when his replacement looked like he was going to get sent off.

Thatís the kind of flexibility of thought and tactical pragmatism that smith just lacks.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Villafirst on October 23, 2020, 11:05:08 PM
First half very even overall. Pity Jack's shot was cleared off the line. Goals change games as we found out......
..
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2020, 11:05:49 PM
Thatís why Barkley lost his place at Chelsea, inconsistency. Heís been great in his first 2 games but looked poor tonight.

He had the air of a moments player in last two games, didn't think he impacted game much v Leicester generally but not complaining he won the game.

Still we criticise Hourihane for going missing constantly v the high press so bit concerning a high calibre midfielder also massively struggled.

If he's not fully fit as he was saying after Leicester game then I'd leave him on the bench next weekend unless Chelsea have put one of these penalty clauses in the deal for him not starting.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2020, 11:08:08 PM
Our inability to respond to adversity was a big problem last year. Weíve had a great start to this season, but with the result tonight we still need to show we know how to tactically respond to games.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2020, 11:08:23 PM
Maybe post after reading more comments.

I agree with him, Those scores are just silly, 1s and 0s? Just an over reaction
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 11:12:31 PM
Fucking hell
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Steve67 on October 23, 2020, 11:12:56 PM
Maybe post after reading more comments.

I agree with him, Those scores are just silly, 1s and 0s? Just an over reaction

Jeez!  Some really literal people on here this evening.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Allan C on October 23, 2020, 11:13:28 PM
That reminded me of the 0-3 home defeat to Wimbledon all those years ago.

In form, looking good, and then bosh!
Funny that, thatís exactly what I thought
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 23, 2020, 11:14:43 PM
Goals change games, if Grealish or Konsa scores we could have quite easily gone over the top of them. I agree that our reaction to going behind was the greatest concern. The general performance up until then was fine though.

Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2020, 11:18:56 PM
Tonight was desperately disappointing - really bad - and itís one weíll have to suffer from a bit. But it presents an opportunity for the players and management to learn about themselves. Principally we need to find a way of being much better and responding better when things donít go our way - thatís both from a tactical and an attitude point of view. Use the pain of tonight to come back a better and more rounded team Villa.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: frank black on October 23, 2020, 11:19:30 PM
Fucking hell

😂
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 23, 2020, 11:19:49 PM
That was shit on so many levels.  I jokingly said to my mate who supports Leeds on the way to the pub that it would be the most Villa thing ever to lose 3-0 to Leeds and a Bamford hat trick. I never thought for a second it would come true.  Out thought, and out fought, and despite the money spent, we've only got one substitution that's worth making in Traore for Trez.

Mings had one of his really, really bad games when he looks absolutely nowhere near as good as thinks he is.
After a steady start to the season Targett was back to being a load of old wank.
The midfield was shit, and in not passing to Ollie at the end of the run, Jack has given Southgate and all the other twats ammo for the rest of forever.  That was the end of his England career, right there.

After the first half, I thought we'd get at them as they tired, but letting Patrick fucking Bamford destroy you and your going top dream really is a bit much.

 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: BC Villain on October 23, 2020, 11:24:03 PM
Oh and Gabby, shut the feck up next time.

Think someone needs to take Gabby's spade off him.  He's digging one hell of a hole for himself.

Bamford mentioned it in his post match interview.  Certainly wouldn't be surprised if Bielsa had that pinned on the dressing room wall.

The best team won, no doubt.  Alarming that some of our bad habits from pre-lockdown resurfaced however.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SamTheMouse on October 23, 2020, 11:28:43 PM
If I had a grand for every brain cell in Agbonlahor's skull, my kids would qualify for free school meals.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 23, 2020, 11:28:54 PM


The danger signs were all there in the first half. Leeds were playing through us far too easily and Harrison and Alioski were having their way with us down their left.

I sometimes wish that Dean could sniff danger before it bites us. What should he have done with the players available on the bench? Fair question. Replace Trezeguet with Nakamba and stiffen the midfield to cut out the supply lines maybe?

I thought that Trez offered nothing attacking wise or defensively tonight but that's not at all to say that he was to blame for this. He's been decent so far and I'd play him against Southampton.

Same team. Make up for this aberration should be the message.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 23, 2020, 11:29:16 PM
We got beat by the better team on the night. Itís happened to all the top teams this season ( and I donít include us in that list, yet) what happens in our next match is the test and will show us how much we have progressed this season
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 11:30:10 PM
I will never get why any player, past or present, pipes up with shite like that just before a game. It rarely ends well by full time.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: BC Villain on October 23, 2020, 11:35:39 PM
I will never get why any player, past or present, pipes up with shite like that just before a game. It rarely ends well by full time.

In his case, its attention seeking, along with not being the sharpest knife in the drawer
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 23, 2020, 11:37:14 PM
Martinez 7 - dont think he could have done more with the second, looked sharp in general
Cash 4 - battled but destroyed lets be honest against an outstanding Harrison
Konsa 7 - our best defender by a long way, covering for Cash as best he could all night
Mings 3 - hopeless, timber legs stuck in the ground while Bamford embarrassingly turned onto his left foot and passed the third in. Terrible for all three goals actually.
Targett 4 - not my favourite player by any stretch but was doing ok until getting overrun into the second half, no support from Grealish
Trez 4 - anonymous with the ball but we sure did miss his graft without the ball when he went off
Luiz 6 - did his best but hopelessly outnumbered, sold down the river by Smith's tactics
McGinn 4 - anonymous for most of the game, unfortunately was up against superior athletes tonight and it showed
Barkley 3 - absolutely useless and should have been subbed immediately after his efforts to stop their second goal
Grealish 6 - should have had a peno and had two kicked off the line but lost the ball a lot tonight and his effort without the ball were risible, pathetic yellow card too
Watkins 4 - really poor in first half when he got lots of possession, made no impact in the second but we stopped playing at that point
Traore 3 - yikes, a bit of a horror show. looked miles off the pace but balance of team was totally wrong

We go again I guess

I think those scores are about right.  I think I'd give Mings a 2 though, he was dreadful, and Jack a 4 or a 5.  I don't think Cash was that bad, as he had no help from Trez, so he'd get a 5.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: supertom on October 23, 2020, 11:39:19 PM
They did to us what we did to Liverpool. Probably should have been 5-6. We were really naive today and I don't think we paid them enough respect. We were ill-disciplined in our pressing. We left acres between our midfield and defence.
Our attackers had an offer day as far as decision making sadly. It's been something that's often been tied to Barclay, that his decision making isn't great. To a lesser extent they used to say it about Jack, as well as him dwelling on it too long some times. Those two in particular were wasteful. Jack may almost have scored a wonder goal but a simple pass to Ollie would probably have put us 1-0 at the time.
We were silly at teams. Flicks here, ambitious passing (that didn't come off, and some games it just doesnt). We went 4 wins from 4 and thought we were Barcelona. Back heels and flicks in our own half. Everyone wants to run through 3-4 players.
We made Bamford look like the love child of Van Basten and Bergkamp ffs. We needed to get deeper, close off the space but didn't. They had acres to play with.

Frustrating. I felt sorry for Watkins. He worked hard, was lively, but should have been played through a few times far earlier. A disappointing game for Jack. Douglas too was disappointingly below par, and this was a game he needed to be sitting a lot deeper.

I think also from Deans side, whilst he didn't address these issues during the game, which was foolish (but to be honest, systematic of modern prem management in all honesty) I think in retrospect we might have benefited from resting one or two. We were leggy. Second to everything. Every stretched header they had still seemed to find a teammate. Every ricochet went to a Leeds player. We also had no patience either, to just sometimes slow the game and take their sting out a bit. We were always looking forward quickly, without the same cohesion we've had so far this season.

Hopefully a one off.

Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 23, 2020, 11:39:48 PM
Alluding to  a reason we may have lost was down to an ex player talking shite on a platform like talkshte is a good grief moment.

If every time an ex player of Man Ure commented on their opposition before a game and it was published on the away dressing room wall, they would have been relegated years ago.

I recall Trevor Sinclair giving Leicester no chance weeks ago at Man City.

We were second best end of and had zero to do with Gabbyís comments.

We have had a great start, we move on and beat Soton.


Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2020, 11:44:25 PM
I will never get why any player, past or present, pipes up with shite like that just before a game. It rarely ends well by full time.

In his case, its attention seeking, along with not being the sharpest knife in the drawer

Well he's getting some attention...

https://twitter.com/LUFC/status/1319744982362849280
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: cdbullyweefan on October 23, 2020, 11:45:37 PM
Isn't he employed by Talksport now? So it's his job to generate attention for the station, which he seems to have done.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on October 23, 2020, 11:50:23 PM
My wife organised a last supper with a few friends tonight, so I ended up in the kitchen all day.

Villa win or draw to go top.... We've been here before.

It would be those scrotes.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 23, 2020, 11:52:17 PM
Getting attention from Leeds fans on Twitter is like a turkey getting attention from Bernard Mathews.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: wince on October 23, 2020, 11:52:53 PM
We were bound to lose at some point. Onwards and upwards
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: eamonn on October 23, 2020, 11:53:43 PM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.

The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2020, 11:57:37 PM
Fucking hell

Sorry Iím a bit pissed and missing the point?
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 24, 2020, 12:00:29 AM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.

The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.

Hourihane wouldn't have made a difference tonight. He'd have been passed through like the rest of the team tonight.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on October 24, 2020, 12:11:50 AM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.

The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.

Hourihane wouldn't have made a difference tonight. He'd have been passed through like the rest of the team tonight.

Maybe so but if nothing else hooking Barkley after his pathetic effort to stop the Leeds second goal might have laid down a marker or two. I thought Hourihane should have come in for Trez soon after half time and sat in next to Luiz with McGinn moving over.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Neal and Winton on October 24, 2020, 12:12:47 AM
I would have brought Nakamba and Hourihane on in the second half frankly Barclay was a passenger from the kick off and McGinn didnít leave the changing room at half time.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2020, 12:14:25 AM

Maybe so but if nothing else hooking Barkley after his pathetic effort to stop the Leeds second goal might have laid down a marker or two. I thought Hourihane should have come in for Trez soon after half time and sat in next to Luiz with McGinn moving over.

What was Barkley doing for the second, he just jogs around in a sort of vague, half-hearted fashion then wafts his foot nowhere near the ball.  Odd.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Axl Rose on October 24, 2020, 12:24:01 AM
Agbonlahor is a prick, and has been for ages. We were crap tonight, but haven't been for awhile.

Onwards to the Southampton game where the players need to play alot better than they did this evening.

Fuck Leeds, but they were better than us tonight.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2020, 12:26:50 AM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.

The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.

Barkley said himself after Leicester he was barely fit to start that game so imagine he wasn't 100% tonight and he certainly flagged when we were chasing the game.

You never know with loan deals. Plenty of clubs have penalty clauses if their player is benched but that's mainly for young players and given we've paid a loan fee of around 11m I'd like to think there's no nonsense clause like that.

I'd leave him out next weekend. We seem to have this weird view any big name player we sign should play evey single minute of every game even if their leg is hanging off (McGinn in December last season). Wesley was also an example of this. Leeds signed Rodrigo for 30m and they left him as a sub for first 3-4 games so he could adapt to the style.

Our squad may not be that great but we simply have to use it this season otherwise we will hit the wall just at the wrong time.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on October 24, 2020, 12:31:07 AM
I'm resigned to the fact that my stepdaughter is going to marry Patrick Bamford.

Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Hockley Lion on October 24, 2020, 01:04:58 AM
Reality check. There was too much hoorah anyway, too much expectation. Let them learn from it, and we go again. Pitty it was Leeds but it's done. Let's put it down to Leeds having an exceptional and highly rated manager who out thought Dean and move on. We're still second, and a third of our way to safety. Only Liverpool can move above us on points and we'll still have a game in hand if they do.

Utv.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ROBBO on October 24, 2020, 01:06:26 AM
What stood out for me was their one touch play, moving the ball quickly. As good as Jack usually is, he tends to hang on to the ball for too long. Barkley looks like a player carrying an injury, hasn't moved as well the last two games.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: hipkiss92 on October 24, 2020, 01:12:56 AM
We're 12 from 15.
No one watched cos its on PPV.
Leeds two years ago were better than most Prem sides and have only got better.
Bielsa is a genius.

A game to learn from and move on.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 24, 2020, 01:22:20 AM
We're 12 from 15.
No one watched cos its on PPV.
Leeds two years ago were better than most Prem sides and have only got better.
Bielsa is a genius.

A game to learn from and move on.

I watched it on PPV but at the pub

Bielsa is a very good manager, genius Iím not sure

Leeds two years ago finished 13th with a different manager.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Axl Rose on October 24, 2020, 01:46:54 AM
Bear in mind as well, Leeds had 3 key players out, including their best player. They reshuffled the whole team to plug the gap then had to reshuffle it again when his replacement looked like he was going to get sent off.

Thatís the kind of flexibility of thought and tactical pragmatism that smith just lacks.

Stop speaking sense, mate! Hope you're well pal. I had to be up at 6, and have to work 9-7. On a Saturday. In a foul mood because of Smith and his inept tactics.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TonyD on October 24, 2020, 02:14:27 AM
Leeds were great.  They showed Trez isnít up to the job.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TonyD on October 24, 2020, 02:28:10 AM
And Jack is world class
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 24, 2020, 02:29:08 AM
Jiminy Christmas all these conclusions. Dean's tactics weren't so inept against Liverpool. Trez was up to the job against Robinson and Jota. Sure we have weaknesses which, on the day, matched up badly against a superbly coached team - well you could say the same about the champions the other week. Styles, tactics and obviously performances match up differently in different games, it happens.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: jacks_headband on October 24, 2020, 03:21:38 AM
It was inevitable, we were not going from scrapping to stay up to winning the league.
Leeds out passed us, out ran us and out thought us.
We knew exacctly what their plan was and we let them play it.
some dredfull peformances all across the pitch, maybe Cash who was run ragged tried the hardest but had little back up.
sobering us up for the next outing
As an aside, why is there a downer on here about Bamford, scored a hat trick and seemed decent to me.
The bench as has been said does little to inspire and Tarore was caught up in the Malaise when he came on

It's because he's a nasty snide little cheating w*nker
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: jacks_headband on October 24, 2020, 03:23:14 AM
When Bielsa hooked his player off after 20 minutes, I thought it's probably not going to be our night. To be honest, I really respect that sort of ruthlessness from a manager. Smith should have done the same to Barkley after his horror pass at 0-1, which directly resulted in their second.

I thought the same but would be incredibly brave of any manager to take off a big name like Barkley, could of soured the whole loan, easy for Bielsa to sub his no name players. Smithy could of perhaps shifted Ross out to the right in place of Trez and put Nkamba on to try and get hold of the midfield however it seemed like leeds wingers did most of the damage so who knows how that would of worked out.
Barkley has had games like this for Everton and Chelsea, thats probably why they've loaned him out. It's up to us to see if we can do something with him.

The day Ross Barkley is too good for us to upset and sub off when having a mare is a day to give up watching us. Smith's comments on Ross so far have been, worryingly, on the starstruck side (has he ever managed a higher profile player who wasn't already at any club he's been boss of?). I'd be right pissed off tonight if I was Conor Hourihane.

Should have hooked him for Nakamba
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2020, 04:41:10 AM
It looked like Berkeley was playing with an injury if so and based on his performance he should have been off. We also needed to get some support to cash who was being ripped apart.
We did neither and paid the price,
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on October 24, 2020, 06:41:43 AM
I thought we were ok first half and was optimistic at half time.
When they scored first I still thought we were well in the game but the second just caused us to fall apart.
If Grealish scores or Konsa's shot goes in it's a different game.
They were much the better side second half.

Not going to overreact here, onto the next.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: mr underhill on October 24, 2020, 06:50:44 AM
we were outclassed and out thought by Leeds. But for me, without spectators the game simply isn't real.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on October 24, 2020, 06:55:32 AM
we were outclassed and out thought by Leeds. But for me, without spectators the game simply isn't real.

Agree, apart from the Liverpool match. That was real.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2020, 07:01:39 AM
The ref did us no favours
Penalty on Jack
Should have been a second yellow and it looked like Bamford stamped on Mings when he tried to get a penalty.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Richard E on October 24, 2020, 07:09:54 AM
Sounded like we were well in the game until they scored. Bit disappointing heads seem to have dropped and the defending for the second and third goals wasnít the best, but overall weíre ahead of expectations, to put it mildly, after 5 games. Cíest la vie. On to the next game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: gpbarr on October 24, 2020, 07:33:43 AM
As Dean said - we donít get too high when things are going well, or too low when things are not.

It was a bad day at the office - it happens (and it happened to Liverpool two weeks back). In the bigger scheme of things, a wake up call that wonít be a bad thing if the players react in a positive way - we knew realistically we were not going to seriously compete top 6 this year so losses will come. Letís remember how far we have come in general - overall we are further forward than we had a right to hope for 2 years ago.

And credit to Leeds - got it right and suspect theyíll finish mid table with us this year.

UTV
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on October 24, 2020, 08:03:50 AM
Nope... it still hurts this morning.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: rob_bridge on October 24, 2020, 08:08:03 AM
Nowhere near good enough.

Draw wine and move on. See how they respond to the set back
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: baddowvillans on October 24, 2020, 08:15:50 AM
Although Leeds had most of the possession we had the best chances up to the goal and looks the most likely to score.  After that we capitulated far too easily.  Loved that fabulous run by Jack but he has a moment in the area where he could have feinted left and slid it to Oli wide right.  Instead he just ran into and closed down the space  for both of them.  I'm with Risso in that moment will be used by Southgate, Souness and all as why Jack " can't be trusted " by England. 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Proposition Joe on October 24, 2020, 08:17:11 AM
Let's have no more games on Friday. In fact, let's have them all on Sunday night or Monday, because when there is no weekend upcoming to ruin, we actually play well and win; give us a chance to ruin a whole weekend, oh boy, do we take that chance.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Des Little on October 24, 2020, 08:33:23 AM
Jacks run was the sliding doors moment. Stick it in and itís one of the goals of all time, however hindsight tells us that the easy pass to Watkins and itís one nil. That said, Leeds were amazing in their athleticism, and the way they dropped in when out of possession is something we can learn from. 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Rotterdam on October 24, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
The ref did us no favours
Penalty on Jack
Should have been a second yellow and it looked like Bamford stamped on Mings when he tried to get a penalty.


I thought the same Chicago.
Overall, I felt we shaded the first half and then Dirty Leeds the second.
It's one game, let's beat Southampton
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: villabear on October 24, 2020, 08:49:05 AM
I didnít even watch it and it still feels like a big kick in the knackers but in perspective who wouldnít have taken one loss and four wins so far.

We go again........oh
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: jwarry on October 24, 2020, 08:55:33 AM
I thought Leeds were excellent and Bielsa worked us out, particularly second half as Jack hardly had a kick.  It was going to happen sometime and my only worry was how we responded after going a goal down as I though the days of capitulation were over.  Iím sure Dean will be pointing this out over the coming days though!
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: bugdozer on October 24, 2020, 08:56:43 AM
Tell you what, Gary, the one thing that Leeds didn't lack was something they had in abundance and that one thing was pace, movement and desire.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 24, 2020, 08:58:36 AM
In the cold light of day, I think pretty much the same as I did last night when half cut. Even first half, second half the game for me was lost in the middle of the park where luiz and Barkley didnít get anywhere near matching their energy and McGinn who I thought had a really good 1st half, faded. That allowed the ball to be frequently sprayed out wide, both their wingers had excellent games but cash in particular was given no protection by Trez who had is first really poor performance of the season. It would of been a worldly from Jack, but overall Bielsa had done his homework on him, thatís several games when he could of played in Watkins earlier but chose to beat an extra man. Thought Watkins continued to work hard and looks a good forward, but needs better service.
All in all poor performance and didnít match up to them physically or tactically.
However, weíve had an excellent start to the season, so letís not write off smith tactically or individual players just yet.
Southampton will be interesting as I think they play a very similar hard fast pressing game, as Leeds, so hopefully we will deal with it more effectively.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: AV82EC on October 24, 2020, 09:07:26 AM
The one thing I did take from last night is that you can and we did get at that Leeds back 4. Despite the last half hour collapse we did create scoring opportunities and with a more clinical approach could have had 2 or 3 goals. That said we deserved to lose and need to have a look at what went wrong both tactically and the players mentality.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: eric woolban woolban on October 24, 2020, 09:31:03 AM
That reminded me of the 0-3 home defeat to Wimbledon all those years ago.

In form, looking good, and then bosh!
I remember early home defeats in previous years.
89/90. Lost 3-1 to QPR. Trevor Francis hat trick.
And also 92/93 lost 3-1 to Chelsea.
And we know what happened in those two seasons.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 24, 2020, 09:33:10 AM
As Smith said and Bielsa said; if we took our chances before they scored then it's a totally different game.

Leeds' approach will see them pick up some great wins, but in a lot of those games they'll be lucky not to concede.

4 wins out of 5 for us. Amazing start - let's not get too down.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Richard on October 24, 2020, 09:43:30 AM
Not seen the game but let's be honest I think Bielsa has Smith's number. The 2 games in 2018/9 showed that to me.

I thought Conor H would have been a great sub on last night remembering how he was in that April 19 match. But Smith went for his usual change and does seem to lack a certain tactical flair.

Still, no one expected 12 points from the first 5 so great start Villa !
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: olaftab on October 24, 2020, 09:45:12 AM
Overall so far this season it's not a big issue however I hate losing on Friday night as it means I can't laugh at other teams during the weekend.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Clampy on October 24, 2020, 09:50:03 AM
I wouldn't try to over analysis the game too much. They were the better side and even though we wasn't as good as we have been, we could have scored 4 ourselves. We've made a start none of us expected. Last night is one to write off and put right next time round.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 24, 2020, 09:53:55 AM
We have a way of playing and the players to do it, Leeds have theirs. Last night, Bielsa's way beat Smith's. It pains me to my very core to say it, but Leeds were stunning. If they can keep that up, they'll be finishing very high up the table.

But still the last thing I want to see is Aston Villa taking to the field set up primarily to stop the opposition. There's virtually no other side capable of doing what Leeds did last night, and that was the level of performance required to beat us, so good luck to anybody else who watched that and thinks they've also sussed how to do it. Yeah, they might have worked it out, but there's hardly any with enough players of Leeds' ilk at their disposal to put it into effect .

Hats off to Leeds, they look like they're going to do more than alright. And so will we.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Walmley_Villa on October 24, 2020, 09:58:02 AM
I thought the firs half was pretty even. They came out of the blocks and then we grew into the game  I really enjoyed it. Second half was all about the first goal and that was that. Cash easily our MOTM.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ozzjim on October 24, 2020, 10:02:03 AM
Leeds were incredibly fit, and wanted it more. My wife commented 10 minutes in how lean the Leeds players looked, and how quick they were closing us down. It was very impressive. No way they sustain that over a full season though, they will struggle with many more injuries. Deserved to win last night though.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2020, 10:19:52 AM
Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are.  Well, make our players fitter then.  You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 24, 2020, 10:25:39 AM
Itís a long season. As impressed as I was with Leeds 2nd half Iíll be amazed if they are still doing that in February. The lockdown was as helpful for them as it was for us.

Iím not too despondent. We had 3 great chances (Grealish x2 and Konsa) before their first goal, score any of those and itís a different story. We just didnít take our chances, they did, fair play to them, it happens.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Fred Crump on October 24, 2020, 10:25:53 AM
I agree that more running makes you fitter Risso but some players are just more natural athletes than others so will respond better to the training. I think Bielsa chooses natural athletes who suit his style of play and can cope with the brutal physical conditioning that he puts them through.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2020, 10:27:57 AM
Itís well documented how intense their fitness regime is under Bielsa.  Double sessions same day I think.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 24, 2020, 10:31:02 AM
Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are.  Well, make our players fitter then.  You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?

Youíre conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. Theyíve never kept it up for a season in the championship so Iíd be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but theyíll fade playing that style.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 24, 2020, 10:31:29 AM
Itís a long season. As impressed as I was with Leeds 2nd half Iíll be amazed if they are still doing that in February. The lockdown was as helpful for them as it was for us.

Iím not too despondent. We had 3 great chances (Grealish x2 and Konsa) before their first goal, score any of those and itís a different story. We just didnít take our chances, they did, fair play to them, it happens.

Agree with this. The last two seasons they had a post Xmas slump, one that dragged them into the play offs another they recovered from. If Something similar happens this season, the premier league as we all know from last year, can be brutal. So as well as they played last night and deserved winners as they were, thereís no guarantee Leeds wonít struggle later in the season.
As an aside just watched that Grealish run again, pure class, but he has to play Watkins in at the right moment, there would of still been work to do but he was unmarked.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: DB on October 24, 2020, 10:40:00 AM
We just were not at it like previous games and against a team like Leeds you are asking for trouble. They need a kick up the arse vs Soton as they and Ings will punish you.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2020, 10:42:28 AM
They had 27 shots. I thought we'd said goodbye to those sort of stats, so hopefully yesterday was a one off blip.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: bugdozer on October 24, 2020, 11:03:37 AM
How much did Gaby's outburst affect their approach? Zero? Lots? Can't help thinking of Pandiani but what effect does an ex-player have compared to a current player making statements? Bugger-all?
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Smithy on October 24, 2020, 11:07:56 AM
Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are.  Well, make our players fitter then.  You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?

Youíre conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. Theyíve never kept it up for a season in the championship so Iíd be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but theyíll fade playing that style.

They'll play 8 fewer league fixtures this season, and have a bigger and they have better squad than last year. I'm not saying they won't run out of steam, but it's definitely less-likely than in previous years.

I was impressed by them, and by Bielsa.  As I said in the match-thread, that sub after 20-odd mins was really ballsy, and was shown to be a great decision.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Chris Smith on October 24, 2020, 11:17:46 AM
I thought the firs half was pretty even. They came out of the blocks and then we grew into the game  I really enjoyed it. Second half was all about the first goal and that was that. Cash easily our MOTM.

Pretty much how I saw it. If we had scored first we would have been able to sit and try to pick them off on the break but they did and were then able to exploit the spaces we were leaving. They were absolutely relentless though, I doubt weíll play another team quite like that all season. It will be interesting to see if they can keep it up.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: bugdozer on October 24, 2020, 11:21:15 AM
I thought the firs half was pretty even. They came out of the blocks and then we grew into the game  I really enjoyed it. Second half was all about the first goal and that was that. Cash easily our MOTM.
Miff?
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are.  Well, make our players fitter then.  You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?

Youíre conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. Theyíve never kept it up for a season in the championship so Iíd be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but theyíll fade playing that style.

They won the last 5 games in a row before lockdown.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: aj2k77 on October 24, 2020, 11:38:50 AM
With hindsight we were too open and should have condensed the space a lot more, they had a lot of areas for players to break in to and balls to be played in to. A tighter game could have produced different results BUT we've played 5 games and won 4 of them which is a fantastic start.

Tactically it wasn't a good match up for us with their energy and pace, Barkley looked unfit. It's important to keep grounded. We don't have the best manager, we don't have the best players, we need to learn and not go back to open games where we are conceding 20+ shots per game. Keep it a bit tighter, don't get carried away with our attacking prowess. We'll have more good results and more bad results this season. The aim is for top 10, that would be a fantastic step up.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 24, 2020, 11:48:39 AM
Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are.  Well, make our players fitter then.  You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?

Youíre conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. Theyíve never kept it up for a season in the championship so Iíd be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but theyíll fade playing that style.

They won the last 5 games in a row before lockdown.

Yep youíre right, I must have been thinking of their run in Jan/ Feb where they won 1 in 7 losing 4.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 24, 2020, 11:50:31 AM
We really need to bounce back strong from this and show it was an off night. I expect the players to fully at it next week and Dean to be tactically sharp.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Rudy65 on October 24, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are.  Well, make our players fitter then.  You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?

Youíre conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. Theyíve never kept it up for a season in the championship so Iíd be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but theyíll fade playing that style.

 Blew up?  They got promoted!

I thought they were one of the best Attacking sides we had played against For some while

Not sure how Bamford had so much room for his second and third goals though. Similar to Salahís second
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Big Ming on October 24, 2020, 11:56:02 AM
Unlike most on here, I thought they easily outplayed us in the first half before ripping us a new one in the second.

Tactically and fitness-wise, they were streets ahead.

Just one thing though (not sour grapes)..... Bamford threw himself to try to steal a penalty and the reason Mings got so mad was because it was as blatant a bit of cheating as his play acting at Eland Road in our promotion year.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 24, 2020, 11:57:46 AM
Even Smith commented on how fit Leeds are.  Well, make our players fitter then.  You can't make a player more skilful, but you can run him harder, so how about trying it?

Youíre conveniently forgetting how they blew up the season before last and were well on the way to doing the same when lockdown came. Theyíve never kept it up for a season in the championship so Iíd be amazed if they did in the Premiership. They are a decent side but theyíll fade playing that style.

 Blew up?  They got promoted.


Iím pretty sure we did actually.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TopDeck113 on October 24, 2020, 12:17:04 PM
Ho-hum.  Next!
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Gareth on October 24, 2020, 12:20:59 PM
Not read a single thing on Twitter / internet since the game kicked off as the fawning over Leeds would wind me up.

They were decent, showed their fitness that I still stand by will see them finish season at top end of bottom six, no higher.   

Was a very disappointing 2nd half once Jack didnít finish that run - before that it was very 50/50....the commentary made out they were all over us but they absolutely werenít - the amount of ball we nicked betw the defence/midfield it was poor that we didnít punish them.

Annoying that horrible cheat Bamford scored a hat trick, all good finishes but the way he flung himself in the air to try and get a penalty was nearly as bad as the one with El Ghazi last time we played...at least when Jack went down there was contact.

Whilst Trezeguet & Targett were obvious weak links, it would be hard to pick anyone who played well...Douglas was probably the best.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Proposition Joe on October 24, 2020, 12:32:53 PM
Update at 13:31 on Sat 24th: weekend *still* ruined. God dammit, I'm almost feeling like we lost a cup final.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on October 24, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Tell you what, Gary, the one thing that Leeds didn't lack was something they had in abundance and that one thing was pace, movement and desire.

That's with Leeds: missing their main centre back and holding midfielder, having a day less rest from the previous game and Bielsa hooking one of their midfielders after 20 mins and bringing a kid in.

Huge week for players and management to turn around that shit show of a performance in second half and prove to Southampton that it was a one off. I'd certainly be in favour of a high profile player or two being dropped as a result and a complete tactical overhaul of our midfield.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 24, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
Leeds will blow up at some point in the new year, in time-honoured Bielsa fashion. In the meantime they'll be fine.

I was pissed off with the performance and the match-up of styles exposed our tactical weaknesses, but every side has them, it's an inevitable consequence of actually having tactical strengths - the same thing happened to Leeds against Wolves. It's a pisser, we live and learn, but let's not act like this means Dean or Jack or Ross are suddenly shit having been brilliant all season so far.

(As an aside, maybe this doesn't hurt as much because I don't have any particular hatred for Leeds. I don't love them, with their sanctimony and Bamford and pretentious Real Madrid shirts, but maybe because the Revie era was before my time and my main memories are feeling sorry for the fans after the Ridsdale shit, I don't feel a special antipathy towards them.)
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: john2710 on October 24, 2020, 12:44:48 PM
They stopped us playing out from the back, whilst we allowed them all the time in the world.

We kept going long & immediately gave the ball back to them.

They closed us down quickly, while we never got near them. We took 2 touches where they took 1. Our setup made it too easy for them & Smith did nothing to change it.

But 12 points from 15 is still a wonderful start.

We need to learn from it quickly because Southampton will set out to do exactly the same next week.

Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2020, 12:51:08 PM
Had Jack scored or better passed to an open Ollie after that spectacular run this game would have been so different. Itís harsh to criticize him after that run, but that decision there, in isolation might have decided the game, or certainly what could have happened after. And he did much the same in the game vs Leicester. He has to be better at getting others involved at the key moments. If he tries to do it all alone we will be back where we were last season. It cannot be all about Jack.
Totally agree with this.
They have got to work on Jack having more of an end product when he goes on one of his runs. It's the difference between him becoming world class and him being remembered as a top player who didn't quite fulfill his potential. If we scored from that run it would have made a dramatic difference on the night. Leeds are a very good side with a world class coach. They will surely ruffle the feathers of many top teams this season. If we finish above them we will be at least top half.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2020, 12:56:28 PM
I know all the 12 points from 15 is great and a bad day at the office bla bla is fine.  But it isnít as if we werenít aware of how they were going to play.  They never change.  Why we were so tactically inept therefore lies at the feet of Deanís door.  I hope Barkley doesnít become one of these players that are undroppable.  If heís not fit he should be rested or at least replaced when we are chasing a game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2020, 01:06:14 PM
Ah well, we move on. Decent break before the Southampton match, so chance for things to be put right and any slight knocks to get over.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ktvillan on October 24, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
Bielsa - you don't have to be a genius to make your team very very fit so they can play the power game for 90+ minutes.  I think lasting the pace has been an issue for us under Smith as well as previous managers.  We look to have improved in that respect since lockdown but Leeds showed there is still a way to go. 

Bamford - anyone wondering why he is so despised only needs to re-watch the way he got AEG sent off (and the subsequent feeble attempts to justify it in that documentary) and the pathetic playacting to try and get a pen last night when he'd actually trodden on Mings' foot.  There are plenty of other examples.  The arsehole is a grade A cheating shithouse.   

Grealish - that run showed why he is in the England squad but not in the team.  Brilliant play to beat the players, but then holds on to it way to long and loses the opening for himself and especially for the wide open Watkins. It may not be a popular view but it showed that Southgate and  Sourness maybe have a point.  Leeds' one and two touch counter attacks showed how it could and should be done.  He lost possession several times last night when passes were on.  I also suspect the non-penalty decision is related to his reputation for going to ground a little too easily - even though there are worse offenders (Mane, Vardy) who get away with it. 

Our full-backs - both thrown under the bus by Smith and the midfielders who were meant to be supporting them.   Not sure why they are being criticised by some. 

Trezeguet - it's no good tracking Alioski back as far as the penalty area and then stopping while Alioski overlaps Harrison and runs into space.  Improving with the ball but still lacks composure and without the ball was back to his headless chicken impersonation last night.  Des Bremner he aint.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2020, 01:08:13 PM
Blew up?  They got promoted!


He's on about 18/19.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Walmley_Villa on October 24, 2020, 01:10:25 PM
I thought the firs half was pretty even. They came out of the blocks and then we grew into the game  I really enjoyed it. Second half was all about the first goal and that was that. Cash easily our MOTM.
Miff?

Yes
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: darren woolley on October 24, 2020, 01:10:35 PM
Leeds were good last night we need to regroup and beat Southampton next week.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: LeeB on October 24, 2020, 01:12:24 PM
They were great, fair play a deserved easy win

Bielsa is a fantastic coach, negated Jack really well. Sometimes you just accept the defeat and the fact youíve been done fair and square and move on.

I've waited until now to look online, but that was my take on it too. They were pretty much perfect in their play, they probably won't play that well again for 90 minutes this season, think it was about 75 minutes before they made an errant pass.

Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: LeeB on October 24, 2020, 01:17:50 PM
And if anyone was MOM for us last night it was Konza. Feels strange to say it in a 3-0 defeat but he was flawless, and kept going to the death.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TonyD on October 24, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
I think last night showed Trez ainít good enough.   He was AWOL so many times.  Targett we know about.  I also think Cash is a bit of a liability but I think there is a good chance he will come good.  I hope the scouts are lining up some upgrades in January.  If they do it will be a very interesting season. 

But yes goals change games.   If only Jack had scored - we all would be very chipper today. 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TonyD on October 24, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
Oh and just because Jack didnít make the pass last night  - suddenly Southgate is right.  What a load of utter bollocks.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Clampy on October 24, 2020, 01:26:42 PM
And if anyone was MOM for us last night it was Konza. Feels strange to say it in a 3-0 defeat but he was flawless, and kept going to the death.

Tell you what, Gary, the one thing that Leeds didn't lack was something they had in abundance and that one thing was pace, movement and desire.

That's with Leeds: missing their main centre back and holding midfielder, having a day less rest from the previous game and Bielsa hooking one of their midfielders after 20 mins and bringing a kid in.

Huge week for players and management to turn around that shit show of a performance in second half and prove to Southampton that it was a one off. I'd certainly be in favour of a high profile player or two being dropped as a result and a complete tactical overhaul of our midfield.

Making changes after our first defeat in five and dropping high profile players? Why does us losing a game bring out the panic mode in some people? They were the better side, like we were in the previous four games. We lost, it happens.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ktvillan on October 24, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
Oh and just because Jack didnít make the pass last night  - suddenly Southgate is right.  What a load of utter bollocks.

First off I haven't said Southgate's right - I said he may have a point.  And even that wouldn't be a fair conclusion to draw if it was the only example.  It isn't, there are plenty more if anyone cares to see them.  Jack's good, very good, but he has his faults too.   But hey keep on wearing your "Jack is God" specs if it makes you happy.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2020, 01:36:02 PM
W6 D2 L1 of our last 9 league games, I wouldn't be panicking yet.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2020, 01:36:59 PM
Itís well documented how intense their fitness regime is under Bielsa.  Double sessions same day I think.

Have we ever had a manager doing double sesssions? Just curious. Pochettino went in at Spurs and starting doing it and they flew up the league pretty quickly.

Drove past Bodymoor the other week and see they've changed the entrance so I assume fans can't watch training anymore or get autographs/selfies. Think I last went down in the final MON season and players were clocking off at 12.01pm.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2020, 01:38:51 PM
Itís a long season. As impressed as I was with Leeds 2nd half Iíll be amazed if they are still doing that in February. The lockdown was as helpful for them as it was for us.

Iím not too despondent. We had 3 great chances (Grealish x2 and Konsa) before their first goal, score any of those and itís a different story. We just didnít take our chances, they did, fair play to them, it happens.

Agree with this. The last two seasons they had a post Xmas slump, one that dragged them into the play offs another they recovered from. If Something similar happens this season, the premier league as we all know from last year, can be brutal. So as well as they played last night and deserved winners as they were, thereís no guarantee Leeds wonít struggle later in the season.
As an aside just watched that Grealish run again, pure class, but he has to play Watkins in at the right moment, there would of still been work to do but he was unmarked.

We need to heed the warning though aswell. Just playing the same 11 continously and we'll be burnt out by Feb aswell. Even if that means we bring in players that not many fans trust it's important we mix up the starting 11 at times this season. If that means a big name player benched then so be it as that's what teams in the top 6 do.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Clampy on October 24, 2020, 01:40:44 PM
W6 D2 L1 of our last 9 league games, I wouldn't be panicking yet.

Yep, but after one defeat we need a tactical overhaul of our midfield apparently.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2020, 01:42:36 PM
Itís well documented how intense their fitness regime is under Bielsa.  Double sessions same day I think.

Have we ever had a manager doing double sesssions? Just curious. Pochettino went in at Spurs and starting doing it and they flew up the league pretty quickly.

Drove past Bodymoor the other week and see they've changed the entrance so I assume fans can't watch training anymore or get autographs/selfies. Think I last went down in the final MON season and players were clocking off at 12.01pm.

When Houlier tried it he got slagged unmercifully for causing too many injuries.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: themossman on October 24, 2020, 01:46:46 PM
Bear in mind as well, Leeds had 3 key players out, including their best player. They reshuffled the whole team to plug the gap then had to reshuffle it again when his replacement looked like he was going to get sent off.

Thatís the kind of flexibility of thought and tactical pragmatism that smith just lacks.

Stop speaking sense, mate! Hope you're well pal. I had to be up at 6, and have to work 9-7. On a Saturday. In a foul mood because of Smith and his inept tactics.

Haha yep! All good thanks ma the hope youíre ok despite the villa showing and the early start. Expect littleun is keeping you busy!
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2020, 01:48:08 PM
W6 D2 L1 of our last 9 league games, I wouldn't be panicking yet.

Yep, but after one defeat we need a tactical overhaul of our midfield apparently.

Not really. If players aren't 100% fit though it's going to be a problem against mega press teams. Leeds are one and Southampton will be same next week.

Barkley said after Leicester game he very nearly missed the game as he'd barely trained the week so it reminds me a little of us playinh McGinn after he got injured playing for Scotland and his performances really dropped off and then he eventually got a bad injury (although that was unrelated).

We do have plenty of options in central midfield to mix things up. We could bring in Nakamba next weekend alongside Luiz or just go back to Hourihane given we've won 4 of the last 5 he's started for us and I think that would remain a competitive midfield.

I'd make a change in midfield and bring in Traore to have a look at him starting a game so I wouldn't say changing 2 players is some radical move. No issue with defensive unit as they've been very good so far, second half was just bad day and they weren't helped hugely by shape infront of them.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2020, 01:50:53 PM
Itís well documented how intense their fitness regime is under Bielsa.  Double sessions same day I think.

Have we ever had a manager doing double sesssions? Just curious. Pochettino went in at Spurs and starting doing it and they flew up the league pretty quickly.

Drove past Bodymoor the other week and see they've changed the entrance so I assume fans can't watch training anymore or get autographs/selfies. Think I last went down in the final MON season and players were clocking off at 12.01pm.

When Houlier tried it he got slagged unmercifully for causing too many injuries.

They barely trained under MON (seemingly because half of the squad lived in Cheshire or London in those times) so with many of them being in the experienced age range it was a problem going from one extreme to the other.

Would work better with this present squad though. I assume Martinez, Watkins, Cash and Barkley were all doing double sessions at their previous clubs given the speed and intensity their ex clubs played at.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Clampy on October 24, 2020, 01:51:46 PM
W6 D2 L1 of our last 9 league games, I wouldn't be panicking yet.

Yep, but after one defeat we need a tactical overhaul of our midfield apparently.

Not really. If players aren't 100% fit though it's going to be a problem against mega press teams. Leeds are one and Southampton will be same next week.

Barkley said after Leicester game he very nearly missed the game as he'd barely trained the week so it reminds me a little of us playinh McGinn after he got injured playing for Scotland and his performances really dropped off and then he eventually got a bad injury (although that was unrelated).

We do have plenty of options in central midfield to mix things up. We could bring in Nakamba next weekend alongside Luiz or just go back to Hourihane given we've won 4 of the last 5 he's started for us and I think that would remain a competitive midfield.

I'd make a change in midfield and bring in Traore to have a look at him starting a game so I wouldn't say changing 2 players is some radical move. No issue with defensive unit as they've been very good so far, second half was just bad day and they weren't helped hugely by shape infront of them.

Point taken but I think on the back of four straight wins and
defeat, it's unnecessary. I'd personally go with the same side and give them the opportunity to get us back on track rather than kicking people out the side because we lost one game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: eamonn on October 24, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
On the same theme, in his interview with Pravda this week, McGinn admitted that he played post-lockdown when he was less than 70% fit and "did it for the team, not myself". My worry is that Dean sees a core as undroppable unless their legs are falling off. I don't know how easy it is to rectify that, as our replacements in midfield especially are a clear step down in quality.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Fred Crump on October 24, 2020, 01:52:43 PM
Lots of middle distance runners train twice a day, every day for up to 100 miles a week and obviously they get much, much fittter aerobically than footballers. But, an awful lot succumb to illness and injuries and very, very, few compete week in week out let alone twice some weeks like footballers do. I think the cumulative grind of a season plus the effect of impact injuries which you obviously donít get in running mean that training intensely twice a day for footballers isnít sustainable for long .
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Damo70 on October 24, 2020, 01:56:08 PM
We had some crucial decisions go against us which contributed to the scoreline so I don't think we should change too much given that we have won four games out of five.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2020, 01:56:48 PM
I think there's a difference in seeing a player can't perform to the level you, or he, want because of injury so you rest him, and dropping players as a kneejerk reaction to one bad game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2020, 01:59:59 PM
On the same theme, in his interview with Pravda this week, McGinn admitted that he played post-lockdown when he was less than 70% fit and "did it for the team, not myself". My worry is that Dean sees a core as undroppable unless their legs are falling off. I don't know how easy it is to rectify that, as our replacements in midfield especially are a clear step down in quality.

That was needs must as just having McGinn back gave everyone a boost initally and he was desperate to play. Bigger problem was in the lead up to his injury in December. I also think Mings around that time wasn't 100% and then his hamstring goes v Leicester.

I don't think anyone is saying give Hourihane or Hause 20 starts this season but Hourihane could certainly come in for the odd game here and there and I'm sure we wouldn't collapse as we didn't when he started the last 4 last season.

This season's schedule will become brutal again from December onwards so I'd like to avoid situation where we go into that period without 2-3 key players all out at same time because they're being overplayed after a limited pre season. Watkins having to play every single minute of every game is also a bit concerning given our lack of out and out forwards in the squad. Spurs leave Kane and Son regularly on bench for their cup games so that's a good example of them resting their best players at good times.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Axl Rose on October 24, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
Bear in mind as well, Leeds had 3 key players out, including their best player. They reshuffled the whole team to plug the gap then had to reshuffle it again when his replacement looked like he was going to get sent off.

Thatís the kind of flexibility of thought and tactical pragmatism that smith just lacks.

Stop speaking sense, mate! Hope you're well pal. I had to be up at 6, and have to work 9-7. On a Saturday. In a foul mood because of Smith and his inept tactics.

Haha yep! All good thanks ma the hope youíre ok despite the villa showing and the early start. Expect littleun is keeping you busy!

Good stuff, mate. All ok now, littleun sleeping on me, sipping some whiskey soda, a good PS4 session on the go. Have a good weekend mate and will speak soon! Up the Villa!
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Damo70 on October 24, 2020, 02:04:45 PM
On the same theme, in his interview with Pravda this week, McGinn admitted that he played post-lockdown when he was less than 70% fit and "did it for the team, not myself". My worry is that Dean sees a core as undroppable unless their legs are falling off. I don't know how easy it is to rectify that, as our replacements in midfield especially are a clear step down in quality.

I reckon three quarters of the the teams in the Premier League would struggle if they dropped/rested their core players.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2020, 02:07:29 PM
On the same theme, in his interview with Pravda this week, McGinn admitted that he played post-lockdown when he was less than 70% fit and "did it for the team, not myself". My worry is that Dean sees a core as undroppable unless their legs are falling off. I don't know how easy it is to rectify that, as our replacements in midfield especially are a clear step down in quality.

I reckon three quarters of the the teams in the Premier League would struggle if they dropped/rested their core players.

West Ham seem to be doing o.k at the moment dropping Noble who was their captain and started about 500 games for them in his career. Diop was also seen as their best CB until a few months ago.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2020, 02:22:26 PM
I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water because it's still been a brilliant start.  It was concerning though, just how easily Leeds humped us second half, despite having fewer rest days than us, and being without their best player. We've got plenty of time to work on what went wrong before Southampton though.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2020, 02:25:29 PM
Yesterday wasnít good. Letís not sugarcoat that. But after this weekend I think the worst we will be is 4th spot because of our GD with a game in hand on all the teams around us. Going into a 5 game stretch where we can certainly pick up a number of points to be in an early top 6 place. If someone had told me that when the season kicked Iíd have told them they were a little crazy.

The truth is all the teams this season have flaws that on any given weekend can be exposed. Just look at any number of results that have taken place. Yesterday was our day to have a bad one. With the exception of only a couple of teams all have had some really bad results this season.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 24, 2020, 02:33:13 PM
Sleeping on it I can now conclude that Bielsa will be managing someone of greater stature than Leeds before long. This is a good thing because I think if Leeds had serious backers they could be a force for some time. Last night was A case of master and apprentice.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Drummond on October 24, 2020, 02:34:36 PM
I think last night showed Trez ainít good enough.   He was AWOL so many times.  Targett we know about.  I also think Cash is a bit of a liability but I think there is a good chance he will come good.  I hope the scouts are lining up some upgrades in January.  If they do it will be a very interesting season. 

But yes goals change games.   If only Jack had scored - we all would be very chipper today.

As I mentioned in another thread, Trezeguet looks great in a win and gets blamed for being shit in a defeat, it's the nature of his style.

They did us, their fans will be excited... It just didn't work for us last night. It was breakneck stuff and a really entertaining 50 minutes.

There were little errors from us across the pitch and they were pretty much faultless. Much like the Liverpool game.

I'm really pissed off about it but it happens. It's how we react next that matters.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 24, 2020, 02:44:55 PM
I think last night showed Trez ainít good enough.   He was AWOL so many times.  Targett we know about.  I also think Cash is a bit of a liability but I think there is a good chance he will come good.  I hope the scouts are lining up some upgrades in January.  If they do it will be a very interesting season. 

But yes goals change games.   If only Jack had scored - we all would be very chipper today.

As I mentioned in another thread, Trezeguet looks great in a win and gets blamed for being shit in a defeat, it's the nature of his style.

They did us, their fans will be excited... It just didn't work for us last night. It was breakneck stuff and a really entertaining 50 minutes.

There were little errors from us across the pitch and they were pretty much faultless. Much like the Liverpool game.

I'm really pissed off about it but it happens. It's how we react next that matters.

Well summed.
We can put this one to bed. Obviously a similar performance/result against Southampton, who are no mugs themselves, will be a bit more concerning
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2020, 02:47:18 PM
I've said it before and I've said it here - there's no shame in losing if you learn from it. Leeds had one of those halves like we did against Fulham. We go again.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2020, 02:51:30 PM
Almost every team this season has had at least one really bad result. It was inevitable we would eventually. It doesnít diminish all that came before it, nor does it indicate what might happen in the next game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2020, 02:54:38 PM
My conclusion: Friday night football sucks. They've ruined my weekend.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: BoVillan esq on October 24, 2020, 02:55:41 PM
My conclusion: Friday night football sucks. They've ruined my weekend.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: themossman on October 24, 2020, 03:00:27 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose
Good stuff, mate. All ok now, littleun sleeping on me, sipping some whiskey soda, a good PS4 session on the go. Have a good weekend mate and will speak soon! Up the Villa!

Good stuff mate thatís living the dream right there! Enjoy!

Thanks mate have a good one too UTFV 👍
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 24, 2020, 03:27:54 PM
Sleeping on it I can now conclude that Bielsa will be managing someone of greater stature than Leeds before long. This is a good thing because I think if Leeds had serious backers they could be a force for some time. Last night was A case of master and apprentice.

I read yesterday he's prepared to stay there for next season. Such a waste at the rugby league town.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 24, 2020, 03:49:12 PM
I've said it before and I've said it here - there's no shame in losing if you learn from it. Leeds had one of those halves like we did against Fulham. We go again.

Yep agree the key bit is showing weíve learnt and grown in response.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: dorsetvillian on October 24, 2020, 04:01:03 PM
Still surprised and disappointed with 4 coaches on the side line that we didn't change the shape tactically. It was not working yet we continued with more if the same.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Herman on October 24, 2020, 05:46:47 PM
There are no words in the English language foul enough to adequately express my dislike of Leeds. My opinion of Patrick Bamford is pretty much the same. A good start to the weekend, it was not.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: WarszaVillan82 on October 24, 2020, 05:55:48 PM
We seem a bit like a MON team (hopefully as good). Normally solid, good on the counter-attack, but struggle when a team has players behind the ball.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Andy Poole on October 24, 2020, 06:06:58 PM
The biggest thing I noticed last night was that when MartŪnez had hold of the ball, he was looking to throw. Every time. No outfield player looked remotely interested in receiving it.

As soon a he caught a corner ball for example he looked up ready to throw but they were all static in the box. Absolutely no urgency at all. No interest in starting an attack instantly. Much preferred to wait and let Leeds get 10 behind the ball.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2020, 06:16:47 PM
The biggest thing I noticed last night was that when MartŪnez had hold of the ball, he was looking to throw. Every time. No outfield player looked remotely interested in receiving it.

As soon a he caught a corner ball for example he looked up ready to throw but they were all static in the box. Absolutely no urgency at all. No interest in starting an attack instantly. Much preferred to wait and let Leeds get 10 behind the ball.
Yeah I agree. Was watching with my son and he was shouting at the screen "no one wants the bloody ball" and he was right. Bit of an odd performance all round last night but I'm confident we will bounce back. And let's not forget we still sit second in the league at the time of writing this with a game in hand over teams around us.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 24, 2020, 06:27:51 PM
I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water because it's still been a brilliant start.  It was concerning though, just how easily Leeds humped us second half, despite having fewer rest days than us, and being without their best player. We've got plenty of time to work on what went wrong before Southampton though.

I think thatís basically it. We have to show weíve used it as a learning experience and are better for it.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: frank black on October 24, 2020, 06:31:45 PM
We seem a bit like a MON team (hopefully as good). Normally solid, good on the counter-attack, but struggle when a team has players behind the ball.

They were all out attack and all out defense man for man, absolutely brilliant fitness. They certainly werenít defensive though.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2020, 07:03:07 PM
What concerns me is how quickly we have gone from "Ruthless to Toothless"
Are Leeds really that much better than us or is the gulf between the two coaches so big?
Great start to the season but let's not get complacent ......
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Drummond on October 24, 2020, 07:46:08 PM
I think last night showed Trez ainít good enough.   He was AWOL so many times.  Targett we know about.  I also think Cash is a bit of a liability but I think there is a good chance he will come good.  I hope the scouts are lining up some upgrades in January.  If they do it will be a very interesting season. 

But yes goals change games.   If only Jack had scored - we all would be very chipper today.

As I mentioned in another thread, Trezeguet looks great in a win and gets blamed for being shit in a defeat, it's the nature of his style.

They did us, their fans will be excited... It just didn't work for us last night. It was breakneck stuff and a really entertaining 50 minutes.

There were little errors from us across the pitch and they were pretty much faultless. Much like the Liverpool game.

I'm really pissed off about it but it happens. It's how we react next that matters.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2020, 07:51:19 PM
Proper ruined my weekend though.  Hope we donít get too many more Friday night kick offs.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2020, 08:58:00 PM
The social club where I watched the game is considered to be more of a nose club than Villa. There wasn't a spare seat to be had. And at least 50% were noses. Just sayin.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Skerra on October 24, 2020, 09:09:18 PM
Can always tell when Jack isnít having a really good game as he gets petulant and booked. He should really try to cut out that side of his game as it shows the opponents they are getting the better of him.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Drummond on October 24, 2020, 09:14:04 PM
Even after conceding 3 we still have the best defensive record in the division.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2020, 09:37:06 PM
Can always tell when Jack isnít having a really good game as he gets petulant and booked. He should really try to cut out that side of his game as it shows the opponents they are getting the better of him.

Same with Mings.  Only Jack is as good as he thinks he is.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Gareth on October 24, 2020, 09:42:42 PM
What concerns me is how quickly we have gone from "Ruthless to Toothless"
Are Leeds really that much better than us or is the gulf between the two coaches so big?
Great start to the season but let's not get complacent ......

I think on the flip side of not getting complacent is everyone not over reacting - we werenít great but we had a shot cleared off line & Jackís run before they scored so we were not exactly toothless.

We have pretty much played the same teams as them yet we have 2 points more - they were better than us 2nd half last night, both coaches sent their teams out to play the only way they do, they executed better.

Bring on Southampton :-)
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2020, 11:32:46 PM
Just watched the replay on motd. Made us look a lot better than I remember it. Bamfords first and especially his third were eminently avoidable. And Jack really should have put Watkins in for a sitter after his brilliant run. A goal there alters the whole course of the game. I know it's almost sacrilegious to criticise Jack but that did cost us dearly last night.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2020, 11:40:35 PM
People acting like it was an open goal for Watkins. With the pass being rolled to him defenders would've been sliding themselves in to block and also still had the keeper to beat.

Think Jack had every right to shoot considering he'd just gone on the incredible run but possibly should've shot a little earlier or looked up to see the keeper was quite a way over to his left. Reminded me of the run he had v Fulham in the first play off final.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2020, 11:46:42 PM
People acting like it was an open goal for Watkins. With the pass being rolled to him defenders would've been sliding themselves in to block and also still had the keeper to beat.

Think Jack had every right to shoot considering he'd just gone on the incredible run but possibly should've shot a little earlier or looked up to see the keeper was quite a way over to his left. Reminded me of the run he had v Fulham in the first play off final.
Watkins was literally unmarked no more than 10 yards out. Not knocking Jack but he really should have given it Watkins.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on October 25, 2020, 12:01:08 AM
Did anyone notice this?

The three goals that Bamford scored came almost exactly after that ďpenaltyĒ incident with Mings where Mings picked him up by the scruff of his neck. I hate him for it, but Bamford doing this caused Mings to lose his calm and go to pieces - we all know Bamford has form with his diving and cheating, and when he went over, it clearly was a designed wind up to get Mings fired up. It worked, Mings was all over the place after that and Bamford scored 3.

I hate him for it, but he certainly got inside Mingsí head with that game. And it bloody worked. He knew exactly how to fire him up and make him lose his concentration.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: eamonn on October 25, 2020, 12:11:00 AM
The beef between them seems like it was apparent as early as the first half. Bamford got in between Mings and Konsa for a diving header that flashed wide. From one of the replays you could see Bamford saying something to Mings immediately afterwards, presumably to the effect of "You'd better watch it". On what grounds I'm not sure, as Mings didn't touch him
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: pelty on October 25, 2020, 01:13:30 AM
Biggest issue for me is the way we did not respond after the first goal and stopped playing after the second. With the exception of Watkins, Konsa (except the third goal when four Villa players stood and admired Bamford's boots), and, to a lesser degree, SJM, I thought every player had a very bad night. Even Martinez' positioning was bad on the opening goal which forced him to palm it rather than collect it, but he was the least of our problems last night.

Still, 12 points from 15, so I am not going to get wound up yet. But they all better show up against Southampton next week.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 25, 2020, 01:43:15 AM
People acting like it was an open goal for Watkins. With the pass being rolled to him defenders would've been sliding themselves in to block and also still had the keeper to beat.

Think Jack had every right to shoot.

This guy. ::)

(https://i.imgur.com/yRs24D4.jpg)

Literally most of the goals Watkins scored last season were in and around this area. He would have slotted that away with ease.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 25, 2020, 06:49:12 AM
If you play back that incident there was an opportunity to play in Ollie, when there was only 1 player between him and Jack (and just the keeper to beat). I was shouting at the screen for Jack to make the pass. Obvs there are no guarantees, but surely we have to play in our £28m striker off the back of a hatrick in his previous home game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 25, 2020, 08:02:30 AM
Itís all hindsight and I understand why jack didnít make the pass, after heíd just run the length of the pitch and had the goal of the season beckoning. But itís not the first time this season he hasnít played Watkins in at the right time, it happened against Leicester and one or two occasions against Fulham.
Itís a bit frustrating.
Heís our best player and our captain, but I hope heís not beyond Smith and his coaching team having a word in his ear.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 25, 2020, 08:12:14 AM
Jack has been nothing short of stunning so far this season but there's still room for improvement in certain areas. With the right coaching he can go from our top player to one of the best in Europe.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 25, 2020, 08:33:27 AM
We looked knackered as soon as they scored. Mentally and physically it broke us.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 25, 2020, 08:34:30 AM
Jack has been nothing short of stunning so far this season but there's still room for improvement in certain areas. With the right coaching he can go from our top player to one of the best in Europe.
he seems to be getting the right coaching under Smith. His progress has been off the scale. Thankfully heís been staying fit.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 25, 2020, 08:52:24 AM
If you play back that incident there was an opportunity to play in Ollie, when there was only 1 player between him and Jack (and just the keeper to beat). I was shouting at the screen for Jack to make the pass. Obvs there are no guarantees, but surely we have to play in our £28m striker off the back of a hatrick in his previous home game.

Yep he should have passed.  When he opted to shoot the opportunity was gone, much like his England career I suspect.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 25, 2020, 08:59:23 AM
I'm sure he'll outlast the England set-up longer than Mountgate.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: OzVilla on October 25, 2020, 09:02:40 AM
From memory when Jack got his shot away he was in a better position than Watkins was at any time. Thatís not to say he shouldnít have passed but when he did shoot it was still just the keeper to beat and 8 yards out with the same angle.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 25, 2020, 09:11:23 AM
From memory when Jack got his shot away he was in a better position than Watkins was at any time. Thatís not to say he shouldnít have passed but when he did shoot it was still just the keeper to beat and 8 yards out with the same angle.

I think you should watch it again.  Watkins was in yards of space as the picture above shows.  Grealish was at a much tighter angle and had a Leeds defender sliding in front of him, another in close proximity and the keeper right in his line of view.  It wasn't a good opportunity by then.  The defence were all moving towards him when he got into the box, and so Watkins would have been unmarked.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Clampy on October 25, 2020, 09:12:26 AM
Yeah, he should have passed but after that amazing run he made, I don't really blame him for wanting to shoot.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: eamonn on October 25, 2020, 09:17:42 AM
I wouldn't think Southgate would write him off on that basis either. Who the hell else in the Prem could go on a run like that (Spurs' Sunny Sonny Son maybe but not many others)?
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on October 25, 2020, 09:19:50 AM
People acting like it was an open goal for Watkins. With the pass being rolled to him defenders would've been sliding themselves in to block and also still had the keeper to beat.

Think Jack had every right to shoot.

This guy. ::)

(https://i.imgur.com/yRs24D4.jpg)

Literally most of the goals Watkins scored last season were in and around this area. He would have slotted that away with ease.

Jack could have shot from there and should still be scoring. Run the play on and he should be scoring anyway. Think he took a touch too many possibly. I guess he could have committed Ayling a bit more there and then Watkins would just have keeper to beat. Don't think Jack did much wrong. Very few attacking players would have passed in the same situation. Jack missed two sitters really, one in the first half, great clearance aside, but it has to go in.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 25, 2020, 09:21:24 AM
Yeah, he should have passed but after that amazing run he made, I don't really blame him for wanting to shoot.
I don't think anyone blames him for going for glory. If he'd scored we would be having a different conversation about the greatest goal ever scored by a Villa player at Villa Park. Fine margins and we can watch the replays to see passing
to Ollie was the right thing to do. Jack's still learning and we are privileged to be witnessing the rise of on of our own to the very pinnacle of the game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Steve67 on October 25, 2020, 09:33:29 AM
We looked knackered as soon as they scored. Mentally and physically it broke us.

This is absolutely spot on.  That first goal was so important and we have form for giving less than a fuck when we go behind.  Still, it's only happened once so far this season and we have to learn from it.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: kipeye on October 25, 2020, 09:41:55 AM
Have to say I'm proud of my fellow Villa fans for the way they responded to this defeat. I have complained about the excess gloating in the past, but you have been totally classy since Friday.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 25, 2020, 09:59:14 AM
What a great post.

Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 25, 2020, 10:23:46 AM
What a great post.
I agree.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 25, 2020, 10:34:27 AM
Iíve not watched any of the game and neither do I intend to.  Continuing my childish rant reaction to when we lose a game.  Unless Iíve actually been at the game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Billy Walker on October 25, 2020, 10:57:44 AM
We looked knackered as soon as they scored. Mentally and physically it broke us.

It's a strange one because at the tail end of last season this team had to contend with mental pressure of a magnitude no Villa team in my time has ever had to face.  It would take an awful lot to break the spine of this team, I reckon.  I think Leeds simply got their tactics spot on, they overran us and smothered us.   
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Allan C on October 25, 2020, 11:05:50 AM
I think people are over analysing the game. We had just about all of our key players having an off day at the same time and Leeds exploited it. Itís rare for all the team to play poorly but Iíve seen enough this season to know weíll put it right and move on
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 25, 2020, 11:06:05 AM
we just looked like we didn't think we could get back in to it once we went behind; it's probably been a while since we've been behind in a game.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Ian J on October 25, 2020, 11:07:28 AM
All this argument about if Jack should have passed or not, you can not take away his brilliance to create this opportunity in the first place. He had no right to get into that position but he did. Heís some player and heís bloody ace.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 25, 2020, 11:42:45 AM
A lot has been said about us benefiting from lack of crowd.  Not a lot been said from others about it this weekend funnily enough.  The way we reacted to going one down I do wonder whether if the crowd being there might have helped them react more positively.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 25, 2020, 11:42:56 AM
All this argument about if Jack should have passed or not, you can not take away his brilliance to create this opportunity in the first place. He had no right to get into that position but he did. Heís some player and heís bloody ace.

I feel similarly, seems a bit churlish to have a go at him for not converting a chance that about 5 other current players maximum could have made.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 25, 2020, 11:52:13 AM
Sure, perhaps he could have passed but had he scored, and the keeper saved it, he didn't blaze it wide we would have been talking about one of the all-time great goals.

It was a little like his mazy dribble at the start of the second half in the play off final defeat against Fulham.

His close control allied to pace and strength is mesmerising at times. No-one in our team or our recent teams can do what he can. He does definitely hang onto the ball too long at times but he is a very rare gem.

In the future people will be telling their kids and grandkids that they saw Jack Grealish play the way they do George Best.

Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 25, 2020, 11:52:33 AM
I don't think it's churlish at all.  I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game.  I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: eamonn on October 25, 2020, 11:54:29 AM
I hope crowds aren't back by the time we face them in the return game at Elland Road. Won't be quite as difficult to gain revenge without 35000 savages doing their best to put us off.
I also think Friday night's game is probably the first since Lockdown where a VP crowd might have helped positively influence the result.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 25, 2020, 12:07:06 PM
I don't think it's churlish at all.  I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game.  I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
My thoughts exactly. Jack should have passed and looking back he will know this. No one is knocking him. He's adored by us but sometimes you have be honest and admit he's not quite the perfect player. Yet. And I agree about Southgate. He will feel justified with his lamentable misuse of Jack's unique talent. But as someone posted earlier Jack will outlive Southgate's tenure and hopefully a progressive coach will get the England job and utilise his special talents to the full.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 25, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
I don't think it's churlish at all.  I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game.  I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
My thoughts exactly. Jack should have passed and looking back he will know this. No one is knocking him. He's adored by us but sometimes you have be honest and admit he's not quite the perfect player. Yet. And I agree about Southgate. He will feel justified with his lamentable misuse of Jack's unique talent. But as someone posted earlier Jack will outlive Southgate's tenure and hopefully a progressive coach will get the England job and utilise his special talents to the full.

Sure, I don't totally disagree with this, and it's at least arguable that of the players on earth who could've done that dribble and not by accident (Messi, Hazard, Neymar, a few othrrs) Jack is the most likely to not convert the resulting chance. But then, all those other players are at superclubs; it remains amazing that Jack is still with us given our current position. Of course he should've scored or passed given the position, but I still can't stop loving that we have, not just a player who can do that, but a homegrown one-of-us iconic number 10 who can do that. It's just great.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 25, 2020, 12:38:59 PM
Neymar? He couldnít have done the dribble. Only Messi of your list could have done it. Only Messi.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Monty on October 25, 2020, 12:41:10 PM
Neymar? He couldnít have done the dribble. Only Messi of your list could have done it. Only Messi.

I believe Hazard actually did it and scored for Chelsea a couple of seasons ago.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 25, 2020, 12:42:43 PM
I don't think it's churlish at all.  I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game.  I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.
My thoughts exactly. Jack should have passed and looking back he will know this. No one is knocking him. He's adored by us but sometimes you have be honest and admit he's not quite the perfect player. Yet. And I agree about Southgate. He will feel justified with his lamentable misuse of Jack's unique talent. But as someone posted earlier Jack will outlive Southgate's tenure and hopefully a progressive coach will get the England job and utilise his special talents to the full.

Sure, I don't totally disagree with this, and it's at least arguable that of the players on earth who could've done that dribble and not by accident (Messi, Hazard, Neymar, a few othrrs) Jack is the most likely to not convert the resulting chance. But then, all those other players are at superclubs; it remains amazing that Jack is still with us given our current position. Of course he should've scored or passed given the position, but I still can't stop loving that we have, not just a player who can do that, but a homegrown one-of-us iconic number 10 who can do that. It's just great.
Absolutely. Long may it continue.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Big Ming on October 25, 2020, 01:25:22 PM
Actually, having taken the piss all last week, it's clear that what the Villa need is some man-buns.

Only explanation for what happened.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Big Ming on October 25, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Actually, having taken the piss all last week, it's clear that what the Villa need is some man-buns.

Only explanation for what happened.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 25, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
A lot has been said about us benefiting from lack of crowd.  Not a lot been said from others about it this weekend funnily enough.  The way we reacted to going one down I do wonder whether if the crowd being there might have helped them react more positively.

Possibly would've roared the Grealish mazy run into the goal.

Actually think BCD will help us next game as a full crowd would be nervous as hell after witnessing the Leeds game so hopefully the players can reset amongst themselves and get Leeds game out of their systems.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ktvillan on October 25, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
I don't think it's churlish at all.  I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game.  I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.

Spot on.  We could have been talking about the goal of the decade and after the run he'd gone on you can see why Jack was tempted to see if he could finish it off and really make a mark.  But the point is we aren't, we're talking about a 3-0 defeat. It's a team game and if someone is better placed it doesn't matter how the chance has come about, you should aim to get the ball to whoever has the most chance of burying it.  I've seen Messi do just that more than once. Score that and we probably go onto win the game.  And people would still be raving about the goal and Jack's part in it if he'd passed and Watkins had buried it. 

Still Jack's a fantastic player no denying, and he's come a long way since the frustrating days of not backing himself to take a player on or shoot when well placed to do so. 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Astnor on October 25, 2020, 04:01:58 PM
Hopefully we beat them with ease at Ellen road later in the season.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 25, 2020, 04:03:55 PM
Hopefully we beat them with ease at Ellen road later in the season.

Elland, sorry.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Ian J on October 25, 2020, 04:06:07 PM
I don't think it's churlish at all.  I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game.  I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.

Spot on.  We could have been talking about the goal of the decade and after the run he'd gone on you can see why Jack was tempted to see if he could finish it off and really make a mark.  But the point is we aren't, we're talking about a 3-0 defeat. It's a team game and if someone is better placed it doesn't matter how the chance has come about, you should aim to get the ball to whoever has the most chance of burying it.  I've seen Messi do just that more than once. Score that and we probably go onto win the game.  And people would still be raving about the goal and Jack's part in it if he'd passed and Watkins had buried it. 

Or the keeper may have saved Ollie's shot and we go on to lose 3-0.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ktvillan on October 25, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
I don't think it's churlish at all.  I think Watkins was much better placed to score, and if he had, we might have taken something from the game.  I'm not going to beat him up over it as he's obviously still far and away our best and most exciting player, but he made the wrong decision in my opinion, and increased the ammunition for numpties like Southgate.

Spot on.  We could have been talking about the goal of the decade and after the run he'd gone on you can see why Jack was tempted to see if he could finish it off and really make a mark.  But the point is we aren't, we're talking about a 3-0 defeat. It's a team game and if someone is better placed it doesn't matter how the chance has come about, you should aim to get the ball to whoever has the most chance of burying it.  I've seen Messi do just that more than once. Score that and we probably go onto win the game.  And people would still be raving about the goal and Jack's part in it if he'd passed and Watkins had buried it. 

Or the keeper may have saved Ollie's shot and we go on to lose 3-0.

Indeed he may - and I haven't assumed Watkins would have scored, just that he had a better chance of scoring because he was better placed.  It's about maximising your chances.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: paul_e on October 25, 2020, 09:11:33 PM
I've held back from the thread for a couple of days to let people get things out of their system but now on to how I saw the game.

In my opinion there was nothing much between the teams until the first goal, both sides had decent chances they hadn't been able to take and both defences had been doing a good job so the game was on a knife edge to be tipped one way or the other by a bit of brilliance or a mistake. In the end it was a couple of very small mistakes by us that turned the game, Martinez needed to push the ball away better and Mings was probably a yard to narrow which meant he couldn't deal with the 2nd ball.

After that I think the defeat was always on the cards because they had control over the game. That said the 2 goals we conceded were really disappointing because we stood off and let him pick his spot both times, he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: FatSam on October 25, 2020, 10:18:12 PM
he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
Agreed, but he had just demonstrated his intention to throw himself on the floor looking for a penalty at any opportunity, which might have had something to do with it. He had clearly got under Mingsí skin
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: paul_e on October 25, 2020, 10:23:53 PM
he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
Agreed, but he had just demonstrated his intention to throw himself on the floor looking for a penalty at any opportunity, which might have had something to do with it. He had clearly got under Mingsí skin

Agreed, I think they were scared to touch him in the box because he was desperate to go over for a penalty, still poor goals where we showed him too much respect though.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 26, 2020, 08:26:49 AM
he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.
Agreed, but he had just demonstrated his intention to throw himself on the floor looking for a penalty at any opportunity, which might have had something to do with it. He had clearly got under Mingsí skin

Agreed, I think they were scared to touch him in the box because he was desperate to go over for a penalty, still poor goals where we showed him too much respect though.
His third goal was piss poor defending. I counted 4 players who could have tackled him or at least not allowed him the luxury of picking a spot and placing the ball there. That was the kind of goal you'd normally see in a testimonial match. We can only hope that the training ground this week will be the place to iron that kind of schoolboy defending out.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: eamonn on October 26, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 26, 2020, 09:47:08 AM
They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.
Yeah I understand that but 4 player's couldn't have blocked  the goal between them? I think I'm just more annoyed because of who it was. Bamford is a cheating pos and we allowed him the freedom of Villa Park and that hurts.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on October 26, 2020, 10:19:00 AM
They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.

They shouldn't be standing off the ball though. Mings was diabolical for that. Standing up like a statue while Bamford had time to move to his left foot and shoot. Reminiscent of Mings defending against Man Utd post lockdown where Keane called him out at half time. That was the worst performance I've seen from a Villa centre half since Tuanzebe against Lewis Grabban in the 5-5. If we had any proper competition at centre half (we don't), Mings should be fighting for his place.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 26, 2020, 10:29:09 AM
I think Mings was the problem. He was all over the place.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 26, 2020, 10:33:01 AM
They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.

They shouldn't be standing off the ball though. Mings was diabolical for that. Standing up like a statue while Bamford had time to move to his left foot and shoot. Reminiscent of Mings defending against Man Utd post lockdown where Keane called him out at half time. That was the worst performance I've seen from a Villa centre half since Tuanzebe against Lewis Grabban in the 5-5. If we had any proper competition at centre half (we don't), Mings should be fighting for his place.
I watched with disbelief as Bamford was allowed time to look up pick his spot then aim the ball into that exact spot. For the life of me I can't understand why Mings didn't just stick out a foot and poke the ball away from him. As others have pointed out Bamford seems to have Mings completely rattled but he just seemed transfixed and unable to react while Bamford just picked his spot. Quite bizzare really.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Chris Smith on October 26, 2020, 11:04:21 AM
They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.

They shouldn't be standing off the ball though. Mings was diabolical for that. Standing up like a statue while Bamford had time to move to his left foot and shoot. Reminiscent of Mings defending against Man Utd post lockdown where Keane called him out at half time. That was the worst performance I've seen from a Villa centre half since Tuanzebe against Lewis Grabban in the 5-5. If we had any proper competition at centre half (we don't), Mings should be fighting for his place.
I watched with disbelief as Bamford was allowed time to look up pick his spot then aim the ball into that exact spot. For the life of me I can't understand why Mings didn't just stick out a foot and poke the ball away from him. As others have pointed out Bamford seems to have Mings completely rattled but he just seemed transfixed and unable to react while Bamford just picked his spot. Quite bizzare really.

The endless replays make it look as though they stood around for ages waiting for him to shoot, in reality it was a split second hesitation due to the fear of him diving again but at PL level thatís all that is needed. They shouldnít have done it and hopefully will learn from it but unfortunately his premeditated diving has worked for them. Another feather in the cap for the much lauded Bielsa.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2020, 11:14:18 AM
I read the other day that Leeds got a fair play award when they let us walk in the goal in the Championship.  The same Leeds who scored a goal that was sbnag out of order that kicked it all off in the first place, then had an abysmal simulation to get a player sent off.  Madness.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: The Edge on October 26, 2020, 11:37:21 AM
They stood off him because of the handball rule/VAR fear that he'd go down under any type of contact. No excuse but it's the truth.

They shouldn't be standing off the ball though. Mings was diabolical for that. Standing up like a statue while Bamford had time to move to his left foot and shoot. Reminiscent of Mings defending against Man Utd post lockdown where Keane called him out at half time. That was the worst performance I've seen from a Villa centre half since Tuanzebe against Lewis Grabban in the 5-5. If we had any proper competition at centre half (we don't), Mings should be fighting for his place.
I watched with disbelief as Bamford was allowed time to look up pick his spot then aim the ball into that exact spot. For the life of me I can't understand why Mings didn't just stick out a foot and poke the ball away from him. As others have pointed out Bamford seems to have Mings completely rattled but he just seemed transfixed and unable to react while Bamford just picked his spot. Quite bizzare really.

The endless replays make it look as though they stood around for ages waiting for him to shoot, in reality it was a split second hesitation due to the fear of him diving again but at PL level thatís all that is needed. They shouldnít have done it and hopefully will learn from it but unfortunately his premeditated diving has worked for them. Another feather in the cap for the much lauded Bielsa.
It's that split second in the Premier league that makes all the difference. In Premier league terms they gave him way too much time to allow him to think and pick a spot. I'm sure they will learn from that. I bet the players are gutted that Bamford of all players got a hat trick. His second was a bit special though. Martinez mouthed "wow" when the camera went on him following that goal.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: chrisw1 on October 26, 2020, 12:12:46 PM
Bamford had a really good game and much as we all dislike him and think he is a limited player he looked very good on the night.  The second goal was excellent and if one of our players had scored it we'd be rightly laudinging them for it.  Hopefully his bubble will burst because he's an utter twat, but credit where it's due.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: FatSam on October 26, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
I canít help thinking that we went into the game a bit overconfident. Grealish has been looking so good this season precisely because the players we bought in the summer mean he doesnít have to do everything himself. He wasnít the only one who was guilty of overplaying it at times, but he should have released Watkins after that run. His whole focus should be about putting Watkins through.

Against Liverpool our front players were ruthlessly efficient, almost always releasing a team mate if that was the better option. Barkley was perhaps the least efficient, in that he took on a few opportunities that might have been better left to Trezeguet, but to be fair, it was his debut, and he still scored.

Against Leeds I felt the players were trying to do too much.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 26, 2020, 02:39:10 PM
Bamford had a really good game and much as we all dislike him and think he is a limited player he looked very good on the night.  The second goal was excellent and if one of our players had scored it we'd be rightly laudinging them for it.  Hopefully his bubble will burst because he's an utter twat, but credit where it's due.

Probably not far to compare as he starts every week for them but he must've scored about 50 goals since Davis last scored a league goal for us?
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ktvillan on October 26, 2020, 03:07:44 PM
I've held back from the thread for a couple of days to let people get things out of their system but now on to how I saw the game.

In my opinion there was nothing much between the teams until the first goal, both sides had decent chances they hadn't been able to take and both defences had been doing a good job so the game was on a knife edge to be tipped one way or the other by a bit of brilliance or a mistake. In the end it was a couple of very small mistakes by us that turned the game, Martinez needed to push the ball away better and Mings was probably a yard to narrow which meant he couldn't deal with the 2nd ball.

After that I think the defeat was always on the cards because they had control over the game. That said the 2 goals we conceded were really disappointing because we stood off and let him pick his spot both times, he's not a good enough player to deserve that much respect.

I agree with this, we certainly were not outplayed for the whole game - and you're the first I've seen mention that Martinez pushed the ball back into the danger zone which should be a basic no no for keepers.  Bit harsh maybe but agree he should have done better with it. 

Defence were definitely wary of putting a challenge in on Bamford because of his playacting but should still have forced him onto his right foot. 

Didn't one Marlon F Harewood once get a hat trick against Villa?  Didn't make him a good player. 
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on October 26, 2020, 03:40:39 PM
As disappointing as the result and performance was, we are miles ahead of where most thought we would be after the opening five games. Leeds will cause problems for a few of the top teams this season with their approach to games, and have a team that functions better than the sum of its parts largely down to the coaching and management. they will run out of steam about half way through the season when fatigue sets in.

The Villa defence looked like it did before lockdown. Lets hope it is a blip and not a return to normality. Mings was terrible most of last season, and we would benefit with better competition being brought in in January if we can offload Engels or Hause. Cash had a bad game, but we do have other good options there if he hits a bad run of form.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2020, 03:42:36 PM
I don't think Cash played that badly, he was just overrun as Leeds doubled up down that side, with Trez not providing much support, then Traore providing even less.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 26, 2020, 04:09:11 PM
As disappointing as the result and performance was, we are miles ahead of where most thought we would be after the opening five games. Leeds will cause problems for a few of the top teams this season with their approach to games, and have a team that functions better than the sum of its parts largely down to the coaching and management. they will run out of steam about half way through the season when fatigue sets in.

The Villa defence looked like it did before lockdown. Lets hope it is a blip and not a return to normality. Mings was terrible most of last season, and we would benefit with better competition being brought in in January if we can offload Engels or Hause. Cash had a bad game, but we do have other good options there if he hits a bad run of form.

I donít think Cash had a bad game, he just diDent get the expected support against a very good winger
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: eamonn on October 26, 2020, 04:56:09 PM
Didnt see the game but from the highlights Mings was ball watching for the first goal with Bamford lurking behind but not sure if he or Targett should have been looking after him.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 26, 2020, 06:11:59 PM
Mings had a bad game as did a few others, but him and Konsa have formed a superb partnershipr 10  or games at the end of last season and beginning of this. Nothing wrong with calling out a bad game, but letís put it in the context of the other really good recent performances
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: TonyD on October 26, 2020, 06:34:02 PM
If we can get three points against Southampton - and 5 wins from 6 - then all this will be forgotten about. 

They will all be rested and fresh.   Take the game to them from the off. 

I would be tempted to give Traore a half.
Title: Re: Villa v Leeds post match thread
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 27, 2020, 01:32:54 PM
I think we can clearly see Deans first X1 id all fit and the obvious like for like changes if  / when needed so fully expect same starting line up against Soton.

And to be fair in the first 4 games they have not done badly at all
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