Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Meanwood Villa on September 05, 2020, 10:34:03 AM
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Might be a bit premature seeing as we hope our squad will look different in four weeks' time, other teams will be thinking the same I am sure.
Nonetheless the season is only a week away from starting so I have got to thinking where we might finish. Hoping it won't be a struggle again but most sensible approach would be looking at it from the bottom up, who will we be better than.
The newbies
Fulham
Leeds
Albion
One of these will go down, could well be two, maybe all three. It's imperative we use our extra season's experience and finish above all these lot.
My tips to struggle
Palace
Sheff U
Palace finished the season abysmally and could well carry that forward into the new season (like Watford last year). Hodgson is a wily manager but this might be the year they are in a prolonged struggle. Personally I think Sheff U will have second season syndrome and I think they'll go down with two of the promoted teams. Wilder is a genius with what he's done but I think the difference in playing budget will start to tell. So above these two as well.
Relatively comfortable last season, might drop off this season
Brighton
Newcastle
I think last summer I would have been confident of finishing above both these two. Newcastle in particular were a surprise. I think the fallout of another failed takeover might take its toll and hopefully Bruce will produce one of his dire runs to send them plummeting down the league. Brighton are a bit of a nothing team but were never in too much bother last year. I reckon they'll be around 15th/16th again this time. I was wrong last summer about us being better than these but I'll be right this time.
More established teams we can catch
Burnley
Southampton
West Ham
Perhaps a bit generous to West Ham putting them in this bracket given their struggles last season but looking at their squad they really underperformed. Southampton had a great second half of the season and Ings is a quality striker. Burnley are just a really solid team, always do enough to be comfortable. Realistically this is the bracket we should be looking to finish in. One of these lot could easily drop off this season, like West Ham in season just gone, so not inconceivable we can finish above one of them. We'll have done well to finish above all three I think.
"Levels"
Everton
Leicester
Wolves
Would dearly love the wheels to come off for Wolves but I still think they'll be better than us next season. Hopefully not for much longer. I think Leicester might have a hangover from blowing CL last season but again a bit too soon to catch them. James looks a good signing for Everton. Could be a flop but I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we finished above them next season.
Snowball's chance in hell
Man City
Liverpool
Chelsea
Man U
Arsenal
Spurs
Enough said.
So 10th to 13th is plausible. Maybe a bit optimistic in light of lack of transfer activity but I'm hopeful we've got some irons in the fire. The kind of season we'd have been pissed off about a decade or so ago would do just nicely now.
Jack to win player of the year.
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Like you say bit early to say because of potential signings for us and other teams.
As things stand think WBA and Fulham will struggle, think Leeds will start well, surprise a few teams but fade after Xmas and may we’ll be in the mix.
I agree with you about both Palace and Sheff Utd. Think West Ham will be in the mix as well.
I had Newcastle bang on for relegation last year and was suprised. If they get Fraser, Jamal Lewis and Callum Wilson ahead of us, I think they will be mid table. Think Brighton have a good manager and decent team and won’t be in trouble this time out.
I’m hoping we won’t be in the mix, that is wholly dependent for me on us getting two forward players in as a minimum. If I was a supporter of another club doing this, I’d have us as things stand aline fighting relegation again. With my villa blinkers on, 2 or 3 big signings this week and we’ll be mid table.
My tips for the bottom 3 today before anymore signings would be
West Brom
Sheff Utd
West Ham
With Fulham, Leeds, palace very close.
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I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess before the transfer window closes, but as things are today, then I don't think we'd be finishing above many teams at all.
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We will be in the mix with:
West Ham
Palace
Fulham
West Brom
Burnley
Leeds
Villa
Gap
Newcastle
Gap
I think Brighton and Southampton will be close to the likes of Everton/Leicester/Wolves
Then you have the top teams
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I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess before the transfer window closes, but as things are today, then I don't think we'd be finishing above many teams at all.
My first thought too. As it stands we look like relegation certainties based on lack of goals which is why it all feels a bit twitchy waiting for the next signing. Ignoring other areas of weakness and cover, if we add a good striker (say Abraham) and a good wide player who can score goals then we’re mid table. I really think that’s how finely it’s balanced as of now.
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Depends on how the transfer window pans out. Assuming we're going to end up spending somewhere in the £60m-£100m range, I'd hope we'd be safe come the last few games of the season, so lower mid table. The optimist in me says that if we continue with the post-lockdown performance levels, somewhere in that 10th-12th bracket is achievable. The pessimist that if we don't improve, we'll struggle because at least one of the promoted sides - probably Leeds - will have a decent first season.
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I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess before the transfer window closes, but as things are today, then I don't think we'd be finishing above many teams at all.
The current squad is bottom 6, add a proper centre forward and it’s mid tableish.
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I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess before the transfer window closes, but as things are today, then I don't think we'd be finishing above many teams at all.
The current squad is bottom 6, add a proper centre forward and it’s mid tableish.
Agree with that. The promoted clubs will struggle as they nearly always do. I took zero interest in the likes of Sheffield Utd or Southhampton etc last season, but these types of teams are only ever losing one or two key players / manager away from struggling.
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I don't have a definite opinion on who we'll finish above but if any one of 11 teams got relegated (including us) I wouldn't be surprised at all. The league is that open. I'm leaning towards Fulham and West Brom to go back down if I had to bet but the 3rd team... loads of options.
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I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess before the transfer window closes, but as things are today, then I don't think we'd be finishing above many teams at all.
The current squad is bottom 6, add a proper centre forward and it’s mid tableish.
Agree with that. The promoted clubs will struggle as they nearly always do. I took zero interest in the likes of Sheffield Utd or Southhampton etc last season, but these types of teams are only ever losing one or two key players / manager away from struggling.
Yeah Southampton is a good example, imagine if they were to lose Danny Ings in this window, then they would be in trouble.
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Birmingham City.
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I think we'll probably be near the bottom with our team and management team, currently.
But who knows.
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It makes you realise we are actually in a pretty good position really. Poor teams at the bottom are often carried by a prolific/in form striker (Ings, us and Benteke was the perfect example). The fact that we scraped by with effectively no striker for most of the season is encouraging if we get the next couple of signings right.
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We are 2 really good players in forward areas from being 14th-10th. I don't think a centre forward changes it that much, we need a wide player too.
Trouble is, there are a few sides making some decent signings, so it is going to be very tough.
West Brom, Fulham and Villa would be my bet with the current squad. Get 3-4 really good signings, the last spot is up for grabs. I thought Sheff U might suffer this season but apparently they are close to 4-5 new players.
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I've been thinking for a while "if not us, then who" and it's difficult to identify much obvious cannon fodder this time around, as it was last season when, for example, I'm not sure many would have predicted Bournemouth to go down, and possibly Watford too. I couldn't come up with many candidates.
The promoted clubs usually have at least two you can see struggling, especially the play-off winners. So Fulham probably out of that lot. Leeds have a good manager and seem to be making some strong improvements so difficult to see them going back down. Boggies also have a decent manager but he did struggle sometimes with West Ham. Possibles I'd say.
Of the rest:
West Ham - I don't rate Moyes and they seem to be a bit short of cash so they could struggle again unless they get some of their expensive flops firing. Sounds like a bit of dissent in the ranks too over the sale of Diagana.
Newcastle - mediocre manager with a tendency to go on extended losing runs. Disenchanted fanbase who will turn on them quite quickly I think. Could be another candidate.
Burnley - always seem to have enough to grind out sufficient wins and draws.
Brighton - I think will do ok under Potter with Lallana on board as well.
Palace - Can't see them struggling to be honest, Woy has them too organised and solid and they can grind out results here and there. Eze will give them extra creativity and make them less dependent on Zahar.
Sheffield Utd - I don't think they will be "found out" or suffer second season syndrome, but I don;t think they'll be as comfortbale as last season. They are well drilled and a solid unit. Much could depend on Ramsdale stepping up to replace Henderson.
With 4-5 appropriate signings we should be capable of 10th-15th. Without significant improvements we will be in the mix again, without a doubt.
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Two from Palace, Newcastle, West Ham and Burnley please. Should mean we're hitting a mid table spot if we can do that. Certainly won't be getting relegated as think WBA and Fulham are nailed on to be the bottom two.
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We will win the league.
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Right now I feel we'll be in the relegation mix. If we make at least 4 very good signings then 13-17th. I'd like Watkins, as well as another striker and another winger and a solid midfielder at the very least.
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Might be a bit premature seeing as we hope our squad will look different in four weeks' time, other teams will be thinking the same I am sure.
Nonetheless the season is only a week away from starting so I have got to thinking where we might finish. Hoping it won't be a struggle again but most sensible approach would be looking at it from the bottom up, who will we be better than.
The newbies
Fulham
Leeds
Albion
One of these will go down, could well be two, maybe all three. It's imperative we use our extra season's experience and finish above all these lot.
My tips to struggle
Palace
Sheff U
Palace finished the season abysmally and could well carry that forward into the new season (like Watford last year). Hodgson is a wily manager but this might be the year they are in a prolonged struggle. Personally I think Sheff U will have second season syndrome and I think they'll go down with two of the promoted teams. Wilder is a genius with what he's done but I think the difference in playing budget will start to tell. So above these two as well.
Relatively comfortable last season, might drop off this season
Brighton
Newcastle
I think last summer I would have been confident of finishing above both these two. Newcastle in particular were a surprise. I think the fallout of another failed takeover might take its toll and hopefully Bruce will produce one of his dire runs to send them plummeting down the league. Brighton are a bit of a nothing team but were never in too much bother last year. I reckon they'll be around 15th/16th again this time. I was wrong last summer about us being better than these but I'll be right this time.
More established teams we can catch
Burnley
Southampton
West Ham
Perhaps a bit generous to West Ham putting them in this bracket given their struggles last season but looking at their squad they really underperformed. Southampton had a great second half of the season and Ings is a quality striker. Burnley are just a really solid team, always do enough to be comfortable. Realistically this is the bracket we should be looking to finish in. One of these lot could easily drop off this season, like West Ham in season just gone, so not inconceivable we can finish above one of them. We'll have done well to finish above all three I think.
"Levels"
Everton
Leicester
Wolves
Would dearly love the wheels to come off for Wolves but I still think they'll be better than us next season. Hopefully not for much longer. I think Leicester might have a hangover from blowing CL last season but again a bit too soon to catch them. James looks a good signing for Everton. Could be a flop but I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we finished above them next season.
Snowball's chance in hell
Man City
Liverpool
Chelsea
Man U
Arsenal
Spurs
Enough said.
So 10th to 13th is plausible. Maybe a bit optimistic in light of lack of transfer activity but I'm hopeful we've got some irons in the fire. The kind of season we'd have been pissed off about a decade or so ago would do just nicely now.
Jack to win player of the year.
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Last season we were playing every game with 3 players not of PL standard in Midfield and attack. Crucially we never had a PL level centre forward.
So unless that is rectified this window we will go into the next season vulnerable to a relegation campaign.
A slight improvement at RB is not going to do the trick.
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Last season we were playing every game with 3 players not of PL standard in Midfield and attack. Crucially we never had a PL level centre forward.
So unless that is rectified this window we will go into the next season vulnerable to a relegation campaign.
A slight improvement at RB is not going to do the trick.
I feel if we keep Jack and Douglas, we will do fine. If not, we are fucked
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Last season we were playing every game with 3 players not of PL standard in Midfield and attack. Crucially we never had a PL level centre forward.
So unless that is rectified this window we will go into the next season vulnerable to a relegation campaign.
A slight improvement at RB is not going to do the trick.
I feel if we keep Jack and Douglas, we will do fine. If not, we are fucked
same as last season then, he’ll of a gamble.
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Last season we were playing every game with 3 players not of PL standard in Midfield and attack. Crucially we never had a PL level centre forward.
So unless that is rectified this window we will go into the next season vulnerable to a relegation campaign.
A slight improvement at RB is not going to do the trick.
I feel if we keep Jack and Douglas, we will do fine. If not, we are fucked
same as last season then, he’ll of a gamble.
Im thinking post covid - we were better. DL was awesome and lifted the team. Also Konsa lifted his level
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I think we will definitely finish above Tesco Bags, Fulham, and Brighton.
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To me we're in the group from 13th down. I can't see any club above that who's lost players or will decline enough to finish 15 points lower. As it stands we're not much different from last season apart from hopefully having a bit more self-belief and experience. I expect leeds and Newcastle to stay up, so palace, brighton, us, west ham, Fulham, and wba is the group of doom. I'd go for Fulham, wba and west ham to go down.
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I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess before the transfer window closes, but as things are today, then I don't think we'd be finishing above many teams at all.
The current squad is bottom 6, add a proper centre forward and it’s mid tableish.
Agreed. We also need to cut out the mistakes made for a lot of last season plus learn how to hold on for a win/draw in the latter stages of a game and not Villa it all up like we did a few times in 19-20.
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As things stand I think I'd go for a couple of places higher.
West Brom will be this season's Norwich, which will be fun. Then I reckon Fulham and West Ham will be the other teams to go. With Brighton and for 'second season syndrome' reasons Sheffield United also in the mix.
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Without enforcements we are a bottom 6 team. If we defend better as we did in the last few games we are towards the top of that bottom 6. With the right additions we can secure a mid table spot. But it’s going to be very tough.
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Given how shit we were last season and were dead and buried until post Covid Bournemouth and Watford made a spirited and determined bid to be even worse allowing us to scrape survival, I can’t see us being above three teams unless we make some very good signings.
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Can't say at this stage but it will take 3-4 quality signings for progress to be much more than incremental.
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Last season we were playing every game with 3 players not of PL standard in Midfield and attack. Crucially we never had a PL level centre forward.
So unless that is rectified this window we will go into the next season vulnerable to a relegation campaign.
A slight improvement at RB is not going to do the trick.
I feel if we keep Jack and Douglas, we will do fine. If not, we are fucked
same as last season then, he’ll of a gamble.
Im thinking post covid - we were better. DL was awesome and lifted the team. Also Konsa lifted his level
One major player injured SJM and we went from just about hanging in there to struggling.
We are still 3 players short of being able to put out a PL level 11.
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We will win the league.
Drinkwater is back at Chelsea. No chance
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Read this and weep: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/06/premier-league-2020-21-fans-previews-part-1-arsenal-to-leicester
Jonathan Pilchard says we have no youngsters worth a light ... does the guy know the club at all?
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As things stand, I’d have to agree with the betting companies, most of which have us struggling this year (and most have us odds on for relegation).
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Last season we were playing every game with 3 players not of PL standard in Midfield and attack. Crucially we never had a PL level centre forward.
So unless that is rectified this window we will go into the next season vulnerable to a relegation campaign.
A slight improvement at RB is not going to do the trick.
I feel if we keep Jack and Douglas, we will do fine. If not, we are fucked
same as last season then, he’ll of a gamble.
Im thinking post covid - we were better. DL was awesome and lifted the team. Also Konsa lifted his level
One major player injured SJM and we went from just about hanging in there to struggling.
We are still 3 players short of being able to put out a PL level 11.
The same could be said of a few clubs, to be fair; but - yes! - we definitely need to improve our first 11 picks.
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Two failings last season; 1 gaps and concentration defensively and 2 not killing games off.
The emergence of Luiz and Konsa, the alteration in tactics at the back partly solved the conundrum. McGinn, Grealish and Luiz is a very good midfield indeed.
The 2nd problem is 6 goals from forwards. Wesley might have got another 4 or 5 and depending who they were against, things might have been a lot more comfortable. But we simply failed to kill too many games off and owing to the prevalence of prblem 1 for three quarters of the season, we struggled.
Depending on who we buy up front and out wide, there's a fat lot of difference between 8th and 16th.
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Read this and weep: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/06/premier-league-2020-21-fans-previews-part-1-arsenal-to-leicester
Jonathan Pilchard says we have no youngsters worth a light ... does the guy know the club at all?
Clueless.
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Read this and weep: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/06/premier-league-2020-21-fans-previews-part-1-arsenal-to-leicester
Jonathan Pilchard says we have no youngsters worth a light ... does the guy know the club at all?
Clueless.
I don't know anything about our yoot but I broadly agree with him otherwise.
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Quite a lot of the rest are fair points. It's the youth aspect I disagree with. There is a lot of potential in Archer, Vassilev and Ramsey. I can't comment on Barry as I have not seen him play.
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All of league 2
All of league 1
Championship plus at least 6 or 7 teams maybe more .8 to 9 teams
As good and better than these overall
Fulham
WBA
Leeds
Palace
Brighton
Crystal Palace
Newcastle
West Ham if they don't buy Tarkowski
And then Maybe:
Sheff Utd if they don't perform as well as last season and we perform better
Burnley if they sell Tarkowski to Leicester.
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Rash making predictions at this stage before a ball’s been kicked and the transfer window doesn’t shut for another month! I’d say we will finish higher than blues 😉
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Quite a lot of the rest are fair points. It's the youth aspect I disagree with. There is a lot of potential in Archer, Vassilev and Ramsey. I can't comment on Barry as I have not seen him play.
Genuine question, but what's Vassilev's potential. Have only seen him for his brief first team cameo appearances, but what is it that's good about him?
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Quite a lot of the rest are fair points. It's the youth aspect I disagree with. There is a lot of potential in Archer, Vassilev and Ramsey. I can't comment on Barry as I have not seen him play.
Genuine question, but what's Vassilev's potential. Have only seen him for his brief first team cameo appearances, but what is it that's good about him?
He has a great name.
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Smith rates him.
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Read this and weep: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/06/premier-league-2020-21-fans-previews-part-1-arsenal-to-leicester
Jonathan Pilchard says we have no youngsters worth a light ... does the guy know the club at all?
Clueless.
The Leeds contributor is typically over optimistic about their prospects.
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As things stand, I’d have to agree with the betting companies, most of which have us struggling this year (and most have us odds on for relegation).
Pretty much agree with this ......we "got lucky" at seasons end - we can't afford to rely on this happening again this season - I'm feeling pessimistic right now ......17th again ?
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Read this and weep: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/06/premier-league-2020-21-fans-previews-part-1-arsenal-to-leicester
Jonathan Pilchard says we have no youngsters worth a light ... does the guy know the club at all?
Clueless.
The Leeds contributor is typically over optimistic about their prospects.
It's quite funny reading other clubs' fans predictions of who'll go down. A few of them say us but it's the likes of Leeds, Newcastle, West Brom and Fulham saying it.
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As a Fulham fan it’s nice to see us written off already, by so called experts and fans of other clubs, a bit like Sheffield United were last year, I’m hopping we don’t do a Fulham of the 18/19 ie relegated by just after Xmas of that season, hopping we do a villa of last season, I meant the last month not the previous 10 months, I’ll be quite happy if we’re in with a chance of staying up with 3 or 4 games to play, as to who goes down anybody from Sheffield United downwards, if any of those clubs lose there star players due to injury or transferred out they will struggle
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Read this and weep: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/06/premier-league-2020-21-fans-previews-part-1-arsenal-to-leicester
Jonathan Pilchard says we have no youngsters worth a light ... does the guy know the club at all?
Clueless.
The Leeds contributor is typically over optimistic about their prospects.
It's quite funny reading other clubs' fans predictions of who'll go down. A few of them say us but it's the likes of Leeds, Newcastle, West Brom and Fulham saying it.
I'll make a wild guess what two of the Ws will say.
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Quite a lot of the rest are fair points. It's the youth aspect I disagree with. There is a lot of potential in Archer, Vassilev and Ramsey. I can't comment on Barry as I have not seen him play.
Any plans to loan Cameron Archer out Lee? Would like to think at some point this season he'll go out and get league experience. We have a nasty habit of holding onto young players until they're past 20 and stagnating before finally giving them a loan spell, O'Hare didn't go to Carlisle United until he was 21.
Vassilev needs a loan but I'd keep Jacob Ramsey around. After his two goals yesterday would much rather have him on the bench v Sheffield United than Lansbury. He's clearly the most advanced youth product so can see him getting a few sub games before January.
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As a Fulham fan it’s nice to see us written off already, by so called experts and fans of other clubs, a bit like Sheffield United were last year, I’m hopping we don’t do a Fulham of the 18/19 ie relegated by just after Xmas of that season, hopping we do a villa of last season, I meant the last month not the previous 10 months, I’ll be quite happy if we’re in with a chance of staying up with 3 or 4 games to play, as to who goes down anybody from Sheffield United downwards, if any of those clubs lose there star players due to injury or transferred out they will struggle
What's going to be your regular backline Franky? If it's Tim Ream and Odoi again I don't see much hope for you personally but didn't see you enough last year to know if they're regulars anymore or just squad players now. If you can keep things tighter than last time then you've got a chance with Mitrovic to win 8/9 games.
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Nothing decided about Cam yet. He has only just signed his first pro contract. Would like to think (this my personal opinion only and not based on anything else) that he will either get a couple of opportunities at the start of the season if Smith resurrects the interest in him that he showed before and after the Crewe game last year (but in all honesty he prefers Vassilev) or a loan spell to get match experience at first team level.
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I'll make a wild guess what two of the Ws will say.
Olbiyun have us to go down but the Dogheads don't. However, both have Dean Smith as the first manager to be sacked. West Ham don't mention us at all.
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If we don't finish above Fulham and WBA we will be getting relegated, I have them down as 19th and 20th.
Not really sure about the 3rd team (I don't think it will be us) but it will probably be some reasonable established team who've gone stale at prem level like Watford and Bournemouth did. Palace probably fits the scenario the most given they ended last season in terrible form and lost to us which took some doing at the time.
West Ham have Newcastle vibes this time last year. They've still got a core of solid players and they'll probably grind out enough 1-0s under Moyes to be o.k just like Newcastle started doing from October onwards. Think this seasons Newcastle will be much closer to bottom 3.
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As a Fulham fan it’s nice to see us written off already, by so called experts and fans of other clubs, a bit like Sheffield United were last year, I’m hopping we don’t do a Fulham of the 18/19 ie relegated by just after Xmas of that season, hopping we do a villa of last season, I meant the last month not the previous 10 months, I’ll be quite happy if we’re in with a chance of staying up with 3 or 4 games to play, as to who goes down anybody from Sheffield United downwards, if any of those clubs lose there star players due to injury or transferred out they will struggle
What's going to be your regular backline Franky? If it's Tim Ream and Odoi again I don't see much hope for you personally but didn't see you enough last year to know if they're regulars anymore or just squad players now. If you can keep things tighter than last time then you've got a chance with Mitrovic to win 8/9 games.
your probably right about Odoi and Ream I think we’ll struggle with those two in the team we are looking for new defenders but as we’re at the bottom of the premiership food chain we’re struggling, they were ok in the championship, Scott Parker plays quite a defensive game, some the games last year were dire, but I think we had about a dozen 1-0 wins and if he can somehow make us hard to beat we might be ok obviously easier said than done the other thing with last season we we’re pretty toothless most of the Season, so probably a back up for mitrovic is needed I live in hope!!
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As a Fulham fan it’s nice to see us written off already, by so called experts and fans of other clubs, a bit like Sheffield United were last year, I’m hopping we don’t do a Fulham of the 18/19 ie relegated by just after Xmas of that season, hopping we do a villa of last season, I meant the last month not the previous 10 months, I’ll be quite happy if we’re in with a chance of staying up with 3 or 4 games to play, as to who goes down anybody from Sheffield United downwards, if any of those clubs lose there star players due to injury or transferred out they will struggle
What's going to be your regular backline Franky? If it's Tim Ream and Odoi again I don't see much hope for you personally but didn't see you enough last year to know if they're regulars anymore or just squad players now. If you can keep things tighter than last time then you've got a chance with Mitrovic to win 8/9 games.
your probably right about Odoi and Ream I think we’ll struggle with those two in the team we are looking for new defenders but as we’re at the bottom of the premiership food chain we’re struggling, they were ok in the championship, Scott Parker plays quite a defensive game, some the games last year were dire, but I think we had about a dozen 1-0 wins and if he can somehow make us hard to beat we might be ok obviously easier said than done the other thing with last season we we’re pretty toothless most of the Season, so probably a back up for mitrovic is needed I live in hope!!
Surprised Knockeart didn't do well for you as he was always excellent for Brighton in championship. Another tricky wide man who couldn't step up to premier league for either Leicester or Brighton.
Didn't you sign Cavaleiro from Wolves for 15m aswell?
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As a Fulham fan it’s nice to see us written off already, by so called experts and fans of other clubs, a bit like Sheffield United were last year, I’m hopping we don’t do a Fulham of the 18/19 ie relegated by just after Xmas of that season, hopping we do a villa of last season, I meant the last month not the previous 10 months, I’ll be quite happy if we’re in with a chance of staying up with 3 or 4 games to play, as to who goes down anybody from Sheffield United downwards, if any of those clubs lose there star players due to injury or transferred out they will struggle
Knockaert and Cavaleiro were disappointing most of the season, both scored a few worldly goals but there final cross/pass was poor, I’ll think they will struggle in the premiership, I think we didn’t have mitrovic we’ll probably end up mid table, even Cairney and decorva-Reid we’re a bit hit and miss,
What's going to be your regular backline Franky? If it's Tim Ream and Odoi again I don't see much hope for you personally but didn't see you enough last year to know if they're regulars anymore or just squad players now. If you can keep things tighter than last time then you've got a chance with Mitrovic to win 8/9 games.
your probably right about Odoi and Ream I think we’ll struggle with those two in the team we are looking for new defenders but as we’re at the bottom of the premiership food chain we’re struggling, they were ok in the championship, Scott Parker plays quite a defensive game, some the games last year were dire, but I think we had about a dozen 1-0 wins and if he can somehow make us hard to beat we might be ok obviously easier said than done the other thing with last season we we’re pretty toothless most of the Season, so probably a back up for mitrovic is needed I live in hope!!
Surprised Knockeart didn't do well for you as he was always excellent for Brighton in championship. Another tricky wide man who couldn't step up to premier league for either Leicester or Brighton.
Didn't you sign Cavaleiro from Wolves for 15m aswell?
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There’s a prediction feature on the BBC website where you can predict 1-20 placings for the upcoming season had us at 13th, just ahead of Newcastle. 1st Chelsea, 2nd City, 3rd Liverpool and West Ham, Baggies and Fulham to go down. I would like Fulham to stay up I should say, but don’t care if West Ham and Baggies go down.
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i think we got lucky with watford imploding. we stayed up because they fell apart and we ground at some results.
we tightened up defensively after the restart, luiz and konsa really impressed, but we were finding goals really hard to come by and it concerns me that we haven't, as yet, remedied that.
i think the first 2 games - sheffield united and fulham will be a good barometer as to what the season will hold.
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To stand a real chance of staying up we have to strengthen the squad and keep our key players. Do so and we will be fine. Simple!
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I'll make a wild guess what two of the Ws will say.
Olbiyun have us to go down but the Dogheads don't. However, both have Dean Smith as the first manager to be sacked. West Ham don't mention us at all.
West Brom were the only one to have themselves going down
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To stand a real chance of staying up we have to strengthen the squad and keep our key players. Do so and we will be fine. Simple!
We seem to have got it half right so far then.
If we’ve not done business for a decent striker by this time next week I’ll start to worry.
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That's how I see it as well. It is the main area we are seriously lacking in.
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As things stand, I’d have to agree with the betting companies, most of which have us struggling this year (and most have us odds on for relegation).
Pretty much agree with this ......we "got lucky" at seasons end - we can't afford to rely on this happening again this season - I'm feeling pessimistic right now ......17th again ?
We got enough points. We did better than other teams did. It's not luck.
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(https://ranked-list-images.files.bbci.co.uk/premier-league-table-2020-final-4e3a0ce18371c37adbf56af537584a4d.jpg)
That's how I'd like to finish
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Signing a striker has probably put 2-5 more clubs below us.
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(https://ranked-list-images.files.bbci.co.uk/premier-league-table-2020-final-4e3a0ce18371c37adbf56af537584a4d.jpg)
That's how I'd like to finish
I would swap West Brom and the Mancs.
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I know it's a bit of fun, but I wouldn't like to speculate. I think we could finish anywhere from 9th to 19th. Think we have too much to finish bottom, but not enough to trouble the top 8. I fancy us for a comfortable 13th or 14th, but don't feel secure enough right now to speculate who we'll finish ahead of.
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Still a few moving parts to come to rest at the moment (Martinez, Rashica/Benrahma, ANO) and the same for a couple of other clubs but assuming a few purchases;
Clubs who are certainly not good enough for the PL; Olbyun, Fulham
Clubs who are probably not good enough for the PL; Dirty Leeds, Wet Spam
Clubs who will have a bad season but probably stay up (one might drop though); Blades, Palace, Brighton
We're better than all of them. We'll be in the 9th to 12th position bracket, setting-up feverish speculation over next Summer that 'if we buy right we'll be in Europe next season for sure' :)
UTV
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Despite signing Ollie bookings have still got us favourites with Albion and Fulham to go down. I'm going for Albion, Fulham and Palace for the drop and providing we keep our key players us to finish 14th.
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Bookies take bets from Leeds fans who suffer delusions of Dingle magnitude.
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BBC News were positively masturbating over Dirty Leeds tonight. It was truly sick-making, especially before the watershed.
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BBC News were positively masturbating over Dirty Leeds tonight. It was truly sick-making, especially before the watershed.
I saw Carragher suggest they were going to be everybody's second team, on some website the other day. I suppose if they roll over and give us six points and beat West Brom and wolves they might be.
Do people even have second favourite teams? In the same league I mean.
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Leeds will surely blow themselves out some time in the new year.
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BBC News were positively masturbating over Dirty Leeds tonight. It was truly sick-making, especially before the watershed.
I saw Carragher suggest they were going to be everybody's second team, on some website the other day. I suppose if they roll over and give us six points and beat West Brom and wolves they might be.
Do people even have second favourite teams? In the same league I mean.
Quite like Everton, although less so of late
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BBC News were positively masturbating over Dirty Leeds tonight. It was truly sick-making, especially before the watershed.
I saw Carragher suggest they were going to be everybody's second team, on some website the other day. I suppose if they roll over and give us six points and beat West Brom and wolves they might be.
Do people even have second favourite teams? In the same league I mean.
Quite like Everton, although less so of late
I've got a bit of a soft spot for Sheff Utd and Brighton from living and working in both cities at various times. I don't think I'd describe them as second teams though. I like to see them do well but it doesn't have a massive effect on me if they don't.
As for Leeds being anyone's second team, I'd find that very surprising.
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I've got a bit of a soft spot for Sheff Utd and Brighton from living and working in both cities at various times. I don't think I'd describe them as second teams though. I like to see them do well but it doesn't have a massive effect on me if they don't.
As for Leeds being anyone's second team, I'd find that very surprising.
Lived in Leeds for 5yrs through the Ridsdale era. Started with an open mind, but didn’t take long to despise pretty much everything about them (apart from Milner)
Ridiculous that they won that FIFA FairPlay award for cheating against us, faking injury to get one of our lot sent off, and then trying to stop us from walking the ball in to attempt to even things out
Maybe if Banford had sent himself off then it MIGHT have been deserved
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A fair play award in the same season as spy gate? Haha that's bonkers
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Geordie here,
I think if you sign a good striker that will go a long way to making survival a little more comfortable.
As it stands and unless they suddenly splash a load of cash, it has to be Fulham and West Brom as the bottom two. They just look miles off the quality required to comfortably stay in the league.
Ahead of them it could be any from a group of 6 or 7.
Brighton play some nice stuff at times, but they haven't the quality,
Burnley defy expectations every bloody season,
Crystal Palace over-reliant on Zaha (although Batshuayi might shoulder some of that burden),
Leeds did well in the Championship and Biesla's a top coach, but Bamford's not a PL striker and Rodrigo might be a Joelinton.
Newcastle have some good players, and have bought well imo, but Bruce is a terrible manager,
West Ham are a club in crisis, don't have a good striker, don't have a good manager.
For me, it'll be Fulham, WBA and West Ham. But yourselves, Brighton and Palace might leave it late to clinch survival.
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For me, it'll be Fulham, WBA and West Ham...
This is how I saw it a few days' ago. If the WHU takeover happens that will either confirm their ineptitude or pull them away from the trapdoor.
Palace have now got enough in their tank, I think, with Eze and Batshit in their squad.
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I can't see the dildo twins selling West Ham for the sums quoted so I think they're in big trouble.
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This is how I saw it a few days' ago. If the WHU takeover happens that will either confirm their ineptitude or pull them away from the trapdoor.
Palace have now got enough in their tank, I think, with Eze and Batshit in their squad.
Can't see the takeover happening in time to make any difference to be honest.
I just expect a West Ham catastrophe.
Really like Batshuayi. Wilson + Batshuayi on loan would have been really really good business for us.
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I think West Brom and Fulham will be bottom two, and suspect West Ham might drop with them. They have been a shambles off the pitch lately and have reduced rather than improved the quality of the squad that nearly went down last season.
Burnley might finally have a bad season too, no signings, Dyche falling out with the chairman and lost a few decent squad members. Brighton will be down there, and if Ings picked up an injury Southampton could struggle.
Think Newcastle will be fine, Bruce made some decent signings and whilst dull will keep them up. Think we will be comfortable this season too now we have improved our forward line.
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Geordie here,
That was enough to stop me from reading the rest of it.
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Lots of positive vibes on here this week so was surprised to hear we are still third favourites for the drop. Just checked and it is true. It is Fulham, Albion, us. Also surprised to see Leeds have such long odds.
I've heard it said many times the bookies don't get it wrong. They have this time haven't they? Or are we all kidding ourselves?
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No chance Villa will be as poor as at times last season. Goog keeper, Good striker. McGinn nearly back to full fitness. Sign a pacey winger or two top half is achievable.
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Lots of positive vibes on here this week so was surprised to hear we are still third favourites for the drop. Just checked and it is true. It is Fulham, Albion, us. Also surprised to see Leeds have such long odds.
I've heard it said many times the bookies don't get it wrong. They have this time haven't they? Or are we all kidding ourselves?
No, the bookies take money off mugs that bet in hope rather than expectation. We have a lot of enemies, it seems.
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Again I think that is scoring goals will be a problem, also not convinced about either of our centre half’s.
with the current squad we will probably be 15th and another season of struggling to survive
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Geordie here,
I think if you sign a good striker that will go a long way to making survival a little more comfortable.
As it stands and unless they suddenly splash a load of cash, it has to be Fulham and West Brom as the bottom two. They just look miles off the quality required to comfortably stay in the league.
Ahead of them it could be any from a group of 6 or 7.
Brighton play some nice stuff at times, but they haven't the quality,
Burnley defy expectations every bloody season,
Crystal Palace over-reliant on Zaha (although Batshuayi might shoulder some of that burden),
Leeds did well in the Championship and Biesla's a top coach, but Bamford's not a PL striker and Rodrigo might be a Joelinton.
Newcastle have some good players, and have bought well imo, but Bruce is a terrible manager,
West Ham are a club in crisis, don't have a good striker, don't have a good manager.
For me, it'll be Fulham, WBA and West Ham. But yourselves, Brighton and Palace might leave it late to clinch survival.
I'd agree with most of that except that if we get a decent winger and central midfielder I think we'll be in the 10-15th range. All's not well at Burnley so this might be the season they struggle and Sheffield United may find it hard to replicate last season's form.
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Again I think that is scoring goals will be a problem, also not convinced about either of our centre half’s.
with the current squad we will probably be 15th and another season of struggling to survive
Centre half is a great point and one I agree with. If we can only manage one of a centre back or holding midfielder, I would go with a stronger centre back next to Mings. I think Konsa would do a good job as a holding midfielder.
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Again I think that is scoring goals will be a problem, also not convinced about either of our centre half’s.
with the current squad we will probably be 15th and another season of struggling to survive
Centre half is a great point and one I agree with. If we can only manage one of a centre back or holding midfielder, I would go with a stronger centre back next to Mings. I think Konsa would do a good job as a holding midfielder.
Not picking on you with this mate, but I think that's where we go wrong with the holding midfielder in this country. The job is thought to be for the defender that can trap a ball, whereas for it to properly work you need a nimble, intelligent player that can pass and close down spaces. Our Doug is the correct model, as is Neves at Wulvz, and Stan was great at it for us too.
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Again I think that is scoring goals will be a problem, also not convinced about either of our centre half’s.
with the current squad we will probably be 15th and another season of struggling to survive
Centre half is a great point and one I agree with. If we can only manage one of a centre back or holding midfielder, I would go with a stronger centre back next to Mings. I think Konsa would do a good job as a holding midfielder.
Not picking on you with this mate, but I think that's where we go wrong with the holding midfielder in this country. The job is thought to be for the defender that can trap a ball, whereas for it to properly work you need a nimble, intelligent player that can pass and close down spaces. Our Doug is the correct model, as is Neves at Wulvz, and Stan was great at it for us too.
Again I think that is scoring goals will be a problem, also not convinced about either of our centre half’s.
with the current squad we will probably be 15th and another season of struggling to survive
Centre half is a great point and one I agree with. If we can only manage one of a centre back or holding midfielder, I would go with a stronger centre back next to Mings. I think Konsa would do a good job as a holding midfielder.
Not picking on you with this mate, but I think that's where we go wrong with the holding midfielder in this country. The job is thought to be for the defender that can trap a ball, whereas for it to properly work you need a nimble, intelligent player that can pass and close down spaces. Our Doug is the correct model, as is Neves at Wulvz, and Stan was great at it for us too.
Completely agree. I was thinking more a case of bringing in a better centre half and a konsa could cover for Luiz as an alternative to bringing in a cover for Luiz and leaving us with what we have at the back. If we could bring in both an upgrade at centre back and a player to push Luiz that would great but I also think that is harsh on Konsa to be involved less.
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I think we are capable of finishing above West Ham, Palace, Leeds, Fulham, Albion and Brighton. Possibly also Newcastle, Southampton and Sheffield United if we get our act together.
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I'm curious about what the owners expect us to do this season. Would they sack Dean if we finished 13th for example?
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I'm curious about what the owners expect us to do this season. Would they sack Dean if we finished 13th for example?
I would guess that step one promotion, step two survival, step three 13th and pretty much mid table security would satisfy the owners that we are going in the right direction under Dean Smith.
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I think comfortable survival this season will be deemed progress, and the project will continue - whether thats 12th or 16th I don't think matters that much, but another relegation scrap will see him out.
I'm not as confident as some others we have enough (yet) to compete with the likes of Everton, Newcastle, Southampton, so for me a finish between 13th & 15th is realistic.
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13th would be an excellent season, particularly if we have a decent cup run. I'd defintely take that if offered it now.
Whilst I'm happy with our signings, for me the only massive improvemnt on the team that started last season so far is Watkins (Heaton was excellent and Guilbert decent). Obviously I know the players are now generally more experienced and in particulalr Luiz & Konsa have improved, but even so I still feel we're in the 15-18th territory at the moment. With two more very good signings I'd be more confident of mid table, but I'm not sure how reliable Traore is and I feel we're still very light in midfield and left back.
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13th would be an excellent season, particularly if we have a decent cup run. I'd defintely take that if offered it now.
Whilst I'm happy with our signings, for me the only massive improvemnt on the team that started last season so far is Watkins (Heaton was excellent and Guilbert decent). Obviously I know the players are now generally more experienced and in particulalr Luiz & Konsa have improved, but even so I still feel we're in the 15-18th territory at the moment. With two more very good signings I'd be more confident of mid table, but I'm not sure how reliable Traore is and I feel we're still very light in midfield and left back.
Good points and that's how I feel. If we can be safe with a while to spare it will be a bonus.
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I'm curious about what the owners expect us to do this season. Would they sack Dean if we finished 13th for example?
Think it depends how far off the top 10 we are. We finished 11th in MON's first season but with the signings of Carew and Young in that January we finished the season strongly and most could see we were going in right direction.
If we're a few points off 10th and higher than DS will get another season and also chance to sign 1-2 who would be difference makers. If we're 10-15 points off we're obviously going to be close to bottom 3 again so don't see him surviving in that position.
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I think comfortable survival this season will be deemed progress, and the project will continue - whether thats 12th or 16th I don't think matters that much, but another relegation scrap will see him out.
I'm not as confident as some others we have enough (yet) to compete with the likes of Everton, Newcastle, Southampton, so for me a finish between 13th & 15th is realistic.
If we finish 16th it will either mean we've just stayed up after a late rally like last season or we've had a really poor end of season run to fall from mid table so don't see DS getting 21/22 if we finish bottom 6. Think owners will assume we're signing much better than what we did last season and so will expected that to be reflected in higher league finish and not being that far off 10th.
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For me now progression is finishing above 15th.
If we finish 16th-17th would I cry, no. As long as we don’t get down to last two games again.
I think we have the squad to Finish 10th.
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10th would be a stretch I think, but should be a target. 13th would be a very decent season, for me.
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Last season Everton in 12th finished 14 points ahead of us.
I think regardless of league position a season target should be finishing 10 points clear of 18th place as that would get us safe by April.
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Rather than position focus on getting points on the table. Get us home and dry by end of March
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Oh to go into the last game without a care...for the right reasons, obviously
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Oh to go into the last game without a care...for the right reasons, obviously
The dream!
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2 wingers, a striker and a number 8 of quality before the window shuts, 12th - 10th should be the target.
1 winger and no striker and number 8, 14th-16th
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Unfortunate circumstances, but the lockdown probably saved us from relegation last season. Why? You probably asked and I replied:
Because Deano was given a chance 'to stop and take stock'. Deano had a chance to reflect on his own mistakes (as well as the players) and instead of a downward spiral we came back stronger and better organised. Deano used that time wisely and proved his ability to learn and adapt.
Now, with one Premier League season under his own belt, I am expecting a much better performance from our Manager and am confident he will deliver. IMHO, even if our squad remained the same as last season a much enlightened Deano would keep us above WBA, Fulham and Brighton.
However, with the new additions, a more experienced and improved squad and an enlightened Deano, I would expect us to finish above the aforementioned three plus Newcastle, Crystal Palace, Burnley, Leeds, Sheff Utd and West Ham. Between 10th and 12th would do nicely for the coming season.
Extremely difficult mission accomplished last season (just about) but this season I am confident a much more experienced Mr Smith is going to be a real asset and have us reaching for the stars.
I'm going back to bed now. :)
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Unfortunate circumstances, but the lockdown probably saved us from relegation last season. Why? You probably asked and I replied:
Because Deano was given a chance 'to stop and take stock'. Deano had a chance to reflect on his own mistakes (as well as the players) and instead of a downward spiral we came back stronger and better organised. Deano used that time wisely and proved his ability to learn and adapt.
Now, with one Premier League season under his own belt, I am expecting a much better performance from our Manager and am confident he will deliver. IMHO, even if our squad remained the same as last season a much enlightened Deano would keep us above WBA, Fulham and Brighton.
However, with the new additions, a more experienced and improved squad and an enlightened Deano, I would expect us to finish above the aforementioned three plus Newcastle, Crystal Palace, Burnley, Leeds, Sheff Utd and West Ham. Between 10th and 12th would do nicely for the coming season.
Extremely difficult mission accomplished last season (just about) but this season I am confident a much more experienced Mr Smith is going to be a real asset and have us reaching for the stars instead of rummaging in the basement.
I'm going back to bed now. :)
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Just heard Paul Merson on soccer Saturday say he expects us to finish 15th and that's good progress. Hard to disagree with that but I reckon a couple of places higher is doable. Finish above Palace, Leeds, WBA, Fulham Brighton West Ham Newcastle and Southampton. To be fair, I don't think there will be a massive points difference between 9th and 15th
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I thought Palace would struggle. Fkrs.
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Fulham and West Brom are already in trouble and just look at West Ham's fixtures till November. Time to get some points on the board and embrace mid-table mediocrity.
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I hope we come roaring out of the blocks and smash Sheff U on Monday. Be good to have a few teams on zero points after the first two games, teams that do that usually struggle to turn it round.
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Where we finish in the table depends to a degree on what others do. However if we finish with a goal difference of 0 or better then I think we'll have done very well.
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Looking at the defences of WBA, Fulham, Leeds and West Ham, we don't deserve much if we can't finish above them.
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Curently mid-table and challenging for a top four spot if we put four past Sheffield Utd tomorrow.
I could handle that come the end of the season :)
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Back to the initial question.
All of them. Though I won't put my house on it.
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Palace have already ripped up the conventional wisdom they would struggle - only 2 games but frankly pretty impressive and if Zaha stays they’ll be fine.
Fulham and WBA to form - without major additions they’ll struggle.
I still think we need to manage expectations - Cash and Watkins will take time to acclimate to PL, think we are still short a creative and defensive midfielder, and Traoré is unpredictable. And there are no easy points in the PL.
Anything above 15th would be a very good season in my eyes. Top 10 would be exceptional and a major surprise.
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And there are no easy points in the PL.
Newcastle have been doing their level best to prove you wrong in the hour since you wrote that.
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Can't see WBA and Fulham doing much - especially if they don't strengthen before the window closes.
Leeds will be hit or miss. Can see them winning some big games, but then getting smashed in some.
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Like us last season we scored goals but couldn’t stop conceding them. We were defensively so naive and that started with tactics. It’s why the manager took so much stick. Now you would think Bielsa should be able to figure that out and the club would finance it, but given how they’ve started they have a lot of work to do. His teams physically burn out and if they keep conceding they will become mentally exhausted by defeats. And teams will scout their best players out of games as the season goes on. I don’t think they’ll go down but I reckon they will have a tough second half.
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agree - Bielsa's tactics and approach is great when winning - a few defeats and those players will hit the wall. It's hard to keep working hard when you don't get results.
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Winning our first two games would be huge as the fixtures are pretty tough in October.
Fulham were a mess defensively again yesterday so that should be a winnable game although our record at the Cottage is poor in recent times and many of them played in the play off final so mentally won't be afraid of us.
Coming out tomorrow, attacking and defending really well against a well drilled team would be a statement of intent. I have a feeling we'll win 3-1.
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Wolves are obviously good but that was a very bad defeat for Sheff Utd last week. We can beat this lot. And we should be very up for it.
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Should be looking to finish above Newcastle.
Despite all their signings they've still started Fernandez, Manquillo, Issac Hayden and Andy Carroll today. None of them would get in our first 11. Looks like Saint Maximn will be out for a few weeks aswell injured so their main creative source out.
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I am worried again this season to be honest.
We have spent money but most other teams have as well. I think we could do with a top class defensive midfielder. Add this and I think we will be fine.
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We’ll finish above all of them. We’ll even finish above teams who aren’t even in our division, like AC Milan and Barcelona.
Up.
The.
Villa.
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We’ll finish above all of them. We’ll even finish above teams who aren’t even in our division, like AC Milan and Barcelona.
Up.
The.
Villa.
HELL YEH !
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The current bottom 4 could remain the bottom 4 all season.
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The current bottom 4 could remain the bottom 4 all season.
So are you saying they are remain but set to leave??
Have you had chocolate?
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We’ll finish above all of them. We’ll even finish above teams who aren’t even in our division, like AC Milan and Barcelona.
Up.
The.
Villa.
Please update!!
The best club in italy by far is Juventus.
Reference AC Milan doesn't work as they are merely a Europa league qualifying team mixing it with Shamrock Rovers!
Sorry. I shall ensure my ludicrous fatuous comments are more factually accurate in future! :-)
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We’ll finish above all of them. We’ll even finish above teams who aren’t even in our division, like AC Milan and Barcelona.
Up.
The.
Villa.
Please update!!
The best club in italy by far is Juventus.
Reference AC Milan doesn't work as they are merely a Europa league qualifying team mixing it with Shamrock Rovers!
Sorry. I shall ensure my ludicrous fatuous comments are more factually accurate in future! :-)
I thought accuracy was key in a role like yours... ;-)
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Wolves !!!
Up the Villa
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I thought accuracy was key in a role like yours... ;-)
Don't be daft, it's the ability to more eloquently bullshit than the other side. And charge through the nose for it, of course. ;)
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"Levels"
Everton
Leicester
Wolves
Would dearly love the wheels to come off for Wolves but I still think they'll be better than us next season. Hopefully not for much longer. I think Leicester might have a hangover from blowing CL last season but again a bit too soon to catch them. James looks a good signing for Everton. Could be a flop but I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we finished above them next season.
.....
Jack to win player of the year.
I like this brilliant !
Beaten Wolves , Beaten Leicester.
Certainly hold our own with these 3 and finish high.
And Jack Grealish is the player of 2021! Incoming
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Arsenal
Brighton
Burnley
Chelsea
Crystal Palace
Everton
Fulham
Leeds
Leicester
Liverpool
Man City
Man U
Newcastle
Sheffield United
Southampton
Tottenham
West Brom
West Ham
Wolves
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What about the promoted sides?
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Might be a bit premature seeing as we hope our squad will look different in four weeks' time, other teams will be thinking the same I am sure.
Nonetheless the season is only a week away from starting so I have got to thinking where we might finish. Hoping it won't be a struggle again but most sensible approach would be looking at it from the bottom up, who will we be better than.
The newbies
Fulham
Leeds
Albion
One of these will go down, could well be two, maybe all three. It's imperative we use our extra season's experience and finish above all these lot.
My tips to struggle
Palace
Sheff U
Palace finished the season abysmally and could well carry that forward into the new season (like Watford last year). Hodgson is a wily manager but this might be the year they are in a prolonged struggle. Personally I think Sheff U will have second season syndrome and I think they'll go down with two of the promoted teams. Wilder is a genius with what he's done but I think the difference in playing budget will start to tell. So above these two as well.
Relatively comfortable last season, might drop off this season
Brighton
Newcastle
I think last summer I would have been confident of finishing above both these two. Newcastle in particular were a surprise. I think the fallout of another failed takeover might take its toll and hopefully Bruce will produce one of his dire runs to send them plummeting down the league. Brighton are a bit of a nothing team but were never in too much bother last year. I reckon they'll be around 15th/16th again this time. I was wrong last summer about us being better than these but I'll be right this time.
More established teams we can catch
Burnley
Southampton
West Ham
Perhaps a bit generous to West Ham putting them in this bracket given their struggles last season but looking at their squad they really underperformed. Southampton had a great second half of the season and Ings is a quality striker. Burnley are just a really solid team, always do enough to be comfortable. Realistically this is the bracket we should be looking to finish in. One of these lot could easily drop off this season, like West Ham in season just gone, so not inconceivable we can finish above one of them. We'll have done well to finish above all three I think.
"Levels"
Everton
Leicester
Wolves
Would dearly love the wheels to come off for Wolves but I still think they'll be better than us next season. Hopefully not for much longer. I think Leicester might have a hangover from blowing CL last season but again a bit too soon to catch them. James looks a good signing for Everton. Could be a flop but I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we finished above them next season.
Snowball's chance in hell
Man City
Liverpool
Chelsea
Man U
Arsenal
Spurs
Enough said.
So 10th to 13th is plausible. Maybe a bit optimistic in light of lack of transfer activity but I'm hopeful we've got some irons in the fire. The kind of season we'd have been pissed off about a decade or so ago would do just nicely now.
Jack to win player of the year.
Giving this a bump at the halfway stage. I think we've done better than any of us really expected. 32 points at this stage is incredible.
In terms of my original posting. I think it's fair to say we will almost certainly finish above the current bottom six (Sheff U, West Brom, Fulham, Brighton, Newcastle, Burnley).
I also think we'll finish above Leeds, Palace and Wolves barring a severe decline in form. So that puts us minimum of 11th.
In terms of the non "big six", our rivals are Saints, Everton, West Ham and Leicester. Saints look like they're declining in terms of results although I don't think you can write them off completely, particularly given how fortunate we were tonight. Everton and West Ham are odd in that I think they are in a false position (Everton less so than West Ham) but they probably think the same about us. Ultimately I wouldn't be too surprised if we finished above both of them but the same is true the other way round. Leicester have been far better than I anticipated. Maybe they'll blow up like they did last season, maybe they won't but I think we'll do well to finish above them.
In terms of the "big six", Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs have all looked vulnerable this season. Will we finish above any of them? I'd like to think we can finish above at least one of them but you can easily see all of them putting a run together and us dropping off.
In summary, we're going to win the league ;)
Joking aside, I think Europe might be a stretch but right now I would be disappointed to finish below 10th. If we keep on at our points rate though, who knows?
One thing I am sure of, and I was kind of joking in my OP, Jack for player of the year. What an absolute pleasure to see this lad play. Absolutely incredible player.
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That's pretty remarkable mystic meg . Match of the day have just nominated jack for player of the year too. Next two matches vs west ham and arsenal should give us a clue as to where we will finish plus still got spurs and everton to play twice.
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Grealish should win Player of the Year, but I can tell you right now they'll just give it to Bruno Fernandes.
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That's pretty remarkable mystic meg . Match of the day have just nominated jack for player of the year too. Next two matches vs west ham and arsenal should give us a clue as to where we will finish plus still got spurs and everton to play twice.
Strangely the West Ham game could prove the hardest. Every game right now is tricky. Apart from the bottom 3 there is no easier game.
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Meanwood, your OP is turning out to be pretty accurate, well done. Any tips on lottery numbers?
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Haha. One thing I got wrong is the wheels coming off for Wolves this season. Which is nice.
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The ‘Snowball’s chance in hell’ title needs to be revised to ‘Anything’s possible’
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Two from Palace, Newcastle, West Ham and Burnley please. Should mean we're hitting a mid table spot if we can do that. Certainly won't be getting relegated as think WBA and Fulham are nailed on to be the bottom two.
Piece of pi........
Now for our next trick finishing above Everton and West Ham....
Do that and I fancy 7th. Would be brilliant if we could finish above one of Arsenal or Chelsea aswell. If I'm right we last finished above Chelsea in 1997 and Arsenal in 1996?
Would be really good for the growing mentality of club to know we can finish above one of the league's big hitters again.
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I'll be disappointed if we don't finish above at least one of the "snowball's chance in Hell" teams now.
Last finished above Tottenham: 2008/09. Chelsea: 1996/97, Arsenal: 1995/96.
None of them impossibilities this season.
If anyone fancies being incredibly optimistic, last time we finished above Man U was 1989/90.
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Might be a bit premature seeing as we hope our squad will look different in four weeks' time, other teams will be thinking the same I am sure.
Nonetheless the season is only a week away from starting so I have got to thinking where we might finish. Hoping it won't be a struggle again but most sensible approach would be looking at it from the bottom up, who will we be better than.
The newbies
Fulham
Leeds
Albion
One of these will go down, could well be two, maybe all three. It's imperative we use our extra season's experience and finish above all these lot.
My tips to struggle
Palace
Sheff U
Palace finished the season abysmally and could well carry that forward into the new season (like Watford last year). Hodgson is a wily manager but this might be the year they are in a prolonged struggle. Personally I think Sheff U will have second season syndrome and I think they'll go down with two of the promoted teams. Wilder is a genius with what he's done but I think the difference in playing budget will start to tell. So above these two as well.
Relatively comfortable last season, might drop off this season
Brighton
Newcastle
I think last summer I would have been confident of finishing above both these two. Newcastle in particular were a surprise. I think the fallout of another failed takeover might take its toll and hopefully Bruce will produce one of his dire runs to send them plummeting down the league. Brighton are a bit of a nothing team but were never in too much bother last year. I reckon they'll be around 15th/16th again this time. I was wrong last summer about us being better than these but I'll be right this time.
More established teams we can catch
Burnley
Southampton
West Ham
Perhaps a bit generous to West Ham putting them in this bracket given their struggles last season but looking at their squad they really underperformed. Southampton had a great second half of the season and Ings is a quality striker. Burnley are just a really solid team, always do enough to be comfortable. Realistically this is the bracket we should be looking to finish in. One of these lot could easily drop off this season, like West Ham in season just gone, so not inconceivable we can finish above one of them. We'll have done well to finish above all three I think.
"Levels"
Everton
Leicester
Wolves
Would dearly love the wheels to come off for Wolves but I still think they'll be better than us next season. Hopefully not for much longer. I think Leicester might have a hangover from blowing CL last season but again a bit too soon to catch them. James looks a good signing for Everton. Could be a flop but I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we finished above them next season.
Snowball's chance in hell
Man City
Liverpool
Chelsea
Man U
Arsenal
Spurs
Enough said.
So 10th to 13th is plausible. Maybe a bit optimistic in light of lack of transfer activity but I'm hopeful we've got some irons in the fire. The kind of season we'd have been pissed off about a decade or so ago would do just nicely now.
Jack to win player of the year.
Giving this a bump at the halfway stage. I think we've done better than any of us really expected. 32 points at this stage is incredible.
In terms of my original posting. I think it's fair to say we will almost certainly finish above the current bottom six (Sheff U, West Brom, Fulham, Brighton, Newcastle, Burnley).
I also think we'll finish above Leeds, Palace and Wolves barring a severe decline in form. So that puts us minimum of 11th.
In terms of the non "big six", our rivals are Saints, Everton, West Ham and Leicester. Saints look like they're declining in terms of results although I don't think you can write them off completely, particularly given how fortunate we were tonight. Everton and West Ham are odd in that I think they are in a false position (Everton less so than West Ham) but they probably think the same about us. Ultimately I wouldn't be too surprised if we finished above both of them but the same is true the other way round. Leicester have been far better than I anticipated. Maybe they'll blow up like they did last season, maybe they won't but I think we'll do well to finish above them.
In terms of the "big six", Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs have all looked vulnerable this season. Will we finish above any of them? I'd like to think we can finish above at least one of them but you can easily see all of them putting a run together and us dropping off.
In summary, we're going to win the league ;)
Joking aside, I think Europe might be a stretch but right now I would be disappointed to finish below 10th. If we keep on at our points rate though, who knows?
One thing I am sure of, and I was kind of joking in my OP, Jack for player of the year. What an absolute pleasure to see this lad play. Absolutely incredible player.
You are spot on with these predictions do you know the lottery numbers next week please.
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Jack winning POTY is a decent each way bet, they were mentioning that on MOTD so the media bandwagon will start now.
Southgate would probably vote for Kalvin Phillips.
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But what about Mason Mount...?
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I cant see another POTY candidate. Imagine how embarrassed they'd be to take it ahead of Grealish!
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But what about Mason Mount...?
He looked a sick as a parrot at the end of yesterday's game. Wonder if Tuchel sees in him what Fat Frank did.
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Bump
I won't quote my lengthy pre season and mid season posts but they are to be seen earlier in the thread.
In summary, we finished in the bracket I thought we might at the start of the season (10-13). West Ham and Leeds were better than predicted, Southampton and Wolves worse.
Delighted with the season but reading my comments at halfway it is disappointing we dropped off. Also, might Jack have won player of the season if he stayed fit? There's always next year.
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Probably worth mentioning as well, I'm sure we were third favourites to go down before a ball was kicked. This seemed harsh to me at the time but really brings home the improvement this season.
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Next season we shouldn't be troubled by:
Any of the three promoted clubs
Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle, Palace, Southampton
You would then think that us, Wolves, Leeds, Everton and Arsenal will he hoping for a better season.
You can't imagine that West Ham will be as good again, and I think Spurs' troubles will haunt them, so top 8 as a minimum has to be our target really.
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Southampton are weird, they could finish top six or get relegated.
I'd expect all of the top four to be better next season. Difficult to know how much better Arsenal or Tottenham will be and whether Leicester or West Ham will fade, but I reckon top six shouldn't be a pipe dream.
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Southampton are weird, they could finish top six or get relegated.
I'd expect all of the top four to be better next season. Difficult to know how much better Arsenal or Tottenham will be and whether Leicester or West Ham will fade, but I reckon top six shouldn't be a pipe dream.
It's a pisser that the top 4 finished as it did, as being out of the Champions League at least weakens them slightly in financial terms and in attracting new players. Now though, it's very much "as you were."
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I wasn't necessarily expecting predictions for next season, more a reflection on this one. But if that's where we're going I'd like to think we can make a concerted effort to finish top 7, which will likely be enough for Europe. Our year for the cup as well.
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Agreed, still better than the nightmare scerio of England having five representatives which was possible before today.
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Two from Palace, Newcastle, West Ham and Burnley please. Should mean we're hitting a mid table spot if we can do that. Certainly won't be getting relegated as think WBA and Fulham are nailed on to be the bottom two.
Yay.
Disappointed we couldn't end up above Arsenal in the end giben it was our best chance since mid 90s but they did end up with 6 wins out of 7 or something so their best run of the season.
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Looking back, I'd expected to finish around 15th, with a wildly optimistic hope that a brilliant season would see us finish 10th-12th.
Quite chuffed with how things have panned out, and the results from the last couple of games have really put the shine back on this season for me.
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If our main man hadn't missed 12 games we would almost certainly have finished top eight
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If our main man hadn't missed 12 games we would almost certainly have finished top eight
If you read the comments from Chelsea fans from yesterdays game, about how they're "rubbish" without Kante .... I don't think we're the only ones by any stretch who struggle in the absence of our one world class player. There just aren't that many of them about that many teams get more than one Jack-quality player.
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If our main man hadn't missed 12 games we would almost certainly have finished top eight
If you read the comments from Chelsea fans from yesterdays game, about how they're "rubbish" without Kante .... I don't think we're the only ones by any stretch who struggle in the absence of our one world class player. There just aren't that many of them about that many teams get more than one Jack-quality player.
I'll tell you what, if we had Kante, we'd have been pushing way higher up the table. No doubt in my mind.
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If our main man hadn't missed 12 games we would almost certainly have finished top eight
If you read the comments from Chelsea fans from yesterdays game, about how they're "rubbish" without Kante .... I don't think we're the only ones by any stretch who struggle in the absence of our one world class player. There just aren't that many of them about that many teams get more than one Jack-quality player.
I'll tell you what, if we had Kante, we'd have been pushing way higher up the table. No doubt in my mind.
agree the DM situation has been a problematic this season. Nakamba did a fairly good impersonation of him yesterday though.
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Not worth making predictions where we'll finish next season until after the pre-season and Summer transfers have been finalised. Much can change in the next 12 weeks.
One aspect fo next years' PL might be the german manager aspect;
Klopp,
Tuechel,
Hasenhuttl (yes I know he's Austrian but still),
Franke
and possibly Frankel of Brentford.
And that's without knowing who might be in charge at Palace, Sperms, Dog-heads and Tha' Toon who all look likely to change.
More than the English of Moyes, Smith, Potter and Dyche.
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Two from Palace, Newcastle, West Ham and Burnley please. Should mean we're hitting a mid table spot if we can do that. Certainly won't be getting relegated as think WBA and Fulham are nailed on to be the bottom two.
Yay.
Disappointed we couldn't end up above Arsenal in the end giben it was our best chance since mid 90s but they did end up with 6 wins out of 7 or something so their best run of the season.
They were the second in the table since Christmas.
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Bumping this for new season near upon us but will reserve the call out till a little while with the ins and outs Villa are to have.
Definitely think the 3 promoted teams won't be as troublesome as Leeds , Sheff Utd or Wolves of recent years but interested to see how they get on.
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All
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Based on last season without Grealish, not many.
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Crickey Ads, why dont you take a break for a few days. Things may look a lot rosier when you come back. Worried about your mental health.
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Wolves, Birmingham City and WBA.
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Less that Villa finish below.
With Grealish......7th to 9th place
Without Grealish ..... 10th to 12th place
In summary, solid mid-table mediocrity either way
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Man citeh
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Man citeh
Yes we will own the moral high ground.
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19 hopefully so it's either going to be an epic season for Jack or a tragic one.
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I'll be having my usual tenner on us winning the league. I'll be missing out on the ten Fray Bentos pies I could've bought instead.
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I know it's unlikely but I would fucking love it if Man City have an inury crisis, get knocked out of the Champions League early and finish 5th. We then finish top 4, and tens of thousands of middle fingers are simulataneously pointed in Greasy's direction in Manchester.
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I know it's unlikely but I would fucking love it if Man City have an inury crisis, get knocked out of the Champions League early and finish 5th. We then finish top 4, and tens of thousands of middle fingers are simulataneously pointed in Greasy's direction in Manchester.
Last game of the season at their place would be fucking hilarious.
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There are 3 mini leagues
The 3 promoted teams + Newcastle Palace Brighton Southampton Burnley
The top 4 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' Citeh Manure Putin FC
Then
Villa Leeds Leicester Arse Spuds spam Everton wolves - all these teams are capable of beating each other and occasionally giving a blood nose to the top 4
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We need a good start to the season, otherwise it may at times become a struggle
With the players we have currently signed, I think we will finish 11th again - hoping we win a cup
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There are 3 mini leagues
The 3 promoted teams + Newcastle Palace Brighton Southampton Burnley
The top 4 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' Citeh Manure Putin FC
Then
Villa Leeds Leicester Arse Spuds spam Everton wolves - all these teams are capable of beating each other and occasionally giving a blood nose to the top 4
Definitely. I think possibly West Ham managing sixth last season has made me more optimistic than realistic. But a good signing in midfield and luck with injuries and I think we could still have a good season.
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There are 3 mini leagues
The 3 promoted teams + Newcastle Palace Brighton Southampton Burnley
The top 4 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' Citeh Manure Putin FC
Then
Villa Leeds Leicester Arse Spuds spam Everton wolves - all these teams are capable of beating each other and occasionally giving a blood nose to the top 4
Definitely. I think possibly West Ham managing sixth last season has made me more optimistic than realistic. But a good signing in midfield and luck with injuries and I think we could still have a good season.
i think Liverpool are also a bit vulnerable , the top 3 cemented.
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There are 3 mini leagues
The 3 promoted teams + Newcastle Palace Brighton Southampton Burnley
The top 4 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' Citeh Manure Putin FC
Then
Villa Leeds Leicester Arse Spuds spam Everton wolves - all these teams are capable of beating each other and occasionally giving a blood nose to the top 4
Definitely. I think possibly West Ham managing sixth last season has made me more optimistic than realistic. But a good signing in midfield and luck with injuries and I think we could still have a good season.
i think Liverpool are also a bit vulnerable , the top 3 cemented.
They finished last season well, Might hinge on how well Van Dijk and Gomez have recovered. I also think the average age of their first team will have a few worried. Probably not this season, but it looks like a team that needs a big refresh sooner rather than later. Lots of players in the 28-32 range.
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Top 4 are nailed on it looks like. City to win pulling up. Chelsea maybe to push them hard if they get Lukaku. United and Liverpool bit further adrift. Liverpool as others have said have a number of players that seem to be past their best. Thought they would have invested more this summer. Fofana is a huge loss to Leicester so hard to see them being as close again, thought Vardy looked his age towards the end of last season too.
Best of the rest, very hard to know. Think West Ham will be back struggling again. Bottom 3, Norwich to sink again, Burnley and Palace.
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Signing Lukaku would be madness. They'd have been much better getting Ings for a fraction of the price to keep them going until Haaland is half price. I'm glad they didn't.
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Chelsea have the best tactical coach. Guardiola is morphing into Wenger just with much better players and far more money. Won't deviate from his plan and his answer is to buy more technically gifted attaching midfielders. Tuchel appears much more pragmatic, and I actually think Lukaku is exactly what they need. Liverpool have bought a centre back in, but there was sky of talk that Salah and Mane wanted out. I think they will be on the brink of missing out this time. United look a good squad with a very average manager. Should be pushing for the title but won't be.
I think Leicester have made 3 very good signings, and could get up there into that top 4, but need a centre half quickly. If they go for Zouma, then going by Peponomics Lukaku is free for Chelsea with all their sales too.
After that, Spurs, Arsenal, Villa, Leeds, West Ham and Everton. Its a strong league, but with 2 more signings, the right ones in midfield and creatively, I think we've got the next best squad now. Midfield is the obvious weakness. Leeds will do well again but come unstuck in certain games. Arsenal have bought really really well for me so far. Think they will take a step forward. Everton... Rafa will be pragmatic and getting out good points.
I think 7th would be a really good season for us and a cup run. Then add a couple of good players next summer and have a pop at top 6.
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Really annoying if Spurs hang onto Kane at end of this all, they'll finish above us yet again if they do and I don't see them top 6 so we won't be finishing that high in the league if that plays out.
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I know it's unlikely but I would fucking love it if Man City have an inury crisis, get knocked out of the Champions League early and finish 5th. We then finish top 4, and tens of thousands of middle fingers are simulataneously pointed in Greasy's direction in Manchester.
Beating them in one of the cup finals is the ultimate for me (and a bit more realistic). Goes to penalties and Emi saves the decisive one from Grealish.
That would be the ultimate FU moment to me as thousands sing "Grealish what's the score" as we go to collect the trophy.
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Signing Lukaku would be madness. They'd have been much better getting Ings for a fraction of the price to keep them going until Haaland is half price. I'm glad they didn't.
Lukaku is bloody brilliant. He’s come on a lot.
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Maybe, but he's 29 and will cost well over £100 million. Haaland could be the best striker on Earth for the next decade and is available for about £60 million next season.
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Lukaku is a poor mans Kienan Davis.
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He's been a 1 goal in 2 striker all his career. Massively overpriced maybe, but i'm not sure Chelsea are looking for VFM.
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Really annoying if Spurs hang onto Kane at end of this all, they'll finish above us yet again if they do and I don't see them top 6 so we won't be finishing that high in the league if that plays out.
There's a lot of supposition in that post to be honest. Why can't we finish top 6 and why are Spurs so important as to our final position? We've just added a striker who scored 22 goals in the league two seasons ago, on top of two brilliant players in Buendia and Bailey.
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Kane’s ankles are not exactly Shaun Teale durable either
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Smith has said the goal is Europe.
With Ings and Watkins up top, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, El Ghazi, Chuck and JPB there is significant firepower. Why not top 6?
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Must say will be annoyed if Tottenham manage to hold onto Kane. Man City going out of their way to fuck us over for a player they don't need but not fucking over one of our rivals for a player that they do.
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Fuck Spurs. Nothing further to add, sorry.
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Must say will be annoyed if Tottenham manage to hold onto Kane. Man City going out of their way to fuck us over for a player they don't need but not fucking over one of our rivals for a player that they do.
You were adamant last week that we had capitulated. Now that you know the player insisted on a release clause last year, do you feel differently?
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Yes, sure. Blame Dean Smith for lying about that. Fairly pointless given that if his agent knows, any interested clubs know.
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1. Top three are pretty lock in: Man City / Man. U / Chelsea /
2. Race for Europe: Spurs / Liverpool / Leicester
3. Top half: West Ham / Leeds / Arsenal
I’d guess we will finish a solid 8th having flirted with Europe, even fourth, for a bit.
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Must say will be annoyed if Tottenham manage to hold onto Kane. Man City going out of their way to fuck us over for a player they don't need but not fucking over one of our rivals for a player that they do.
Spin it the other way, they’ll be keeping an unhappy player and will not have any money to spend. I’m not sure their new CB and winger will improve them much this year so they’ve stayed still at best.
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If they've kept their team and added a winger and a defender who are highly rated they'll improve, I'd imagine? Depends on Kane's attitude, I'd have thought, but can't see him sulking all season and once he scores a goal or two the fans will have forgotten all about his summer antics.
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Kane will go.
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That winger Spurs bought looks like he's been following the Suzanne Chatlton diet plan, they want to feed him up a bit first.
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I just hope we finish above Spurs.
1. I’ve got a100 dollar bet that we will
2. It will represent massive progress to overtake those ******
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Finishing above Tottenham, Arsenal, West Ham, Leeds and Leicester is doable and would make me happy.
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We should finish above the three promoted sides plus Palace, Newcastle, Saints and Burnley so that puts us 13th. I can't see us finishing above scab six and Leicester so 8-12th appears to be our range. Along with Everton, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves.
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Gotta believe
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Finishing above Tottenham, Arsenal, West Ham, Leeds and Leicester is doable and would make me happy.
Agreed. I fancy us to do so, too
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We should finish above the three promoted sides plus Palace, Newcastle, Saints and Burnley so that puts us 13th. I can't see us finishing above scab six and Leicester so 8-12th appears to be our range. Along with Everton, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves.
I think Everton and West Ham will regress but have a nagging fear that Leeds are going to improve and the media wankfest will be unbearable. Probably worse for you than me, admittedly.
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Think the top six will be, in no particular order,
Chelsea, Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Leicester and Arsenal (think they’ll come good)
So realistically best for us would be 7th, but we’d be fighting with Spurs, WHU, Leeds & Everton.
There’s always a surprise team, too.
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Must say will be annoyed if Tottenham manage to hold onto Kane. Man City going out of their way to fuck us over for a player they don't need but not fucking over one of our rivals for a player that they do.
Citeh have openly admitted they are still trying to get Kane.
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We should finish above the three promoted sides plus Palace, Newcastle, Saints and Burnley so that puts us 13th. I can't see us finishing above scab six and Leicester so 8-12th appears to be our range. Along with Everton, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves.
I think Everton and West Ham will regress but have a nagging fear that Leeds are going to improve and the media wankfest will be unbearable. Probably worse for you than me, admittedly.
A Sheff U drop off would be glorious but doubt it will happen
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I wouldn't rule out Bielsa just randomly waking up and walking out mid season.
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Really annoying if Spurs hang onto Kane at end of this all, they'll finish above us yet again if they do and I don't see them top 6 so we won't be finishing that high in the league if that plays out.
There's a lot of supposition in that post to be honest. Why can't we finish top 6 and why are Spurs so important as to our final position? We've just added a striker who scored 22 goals in the league two seasons ago, on top of two brilliant players in Buendia and Bailey.
Think Spurs would just win more tight games than we would with Kane and Son still there. Aside from the first 5 games of last season Spurs were really bad I thought attacking wise under Mourinho yet they kept on beating likes of Burnley and West Brom 1-0 with late winners from Kane or Son and those were games we tended to draw or lose last season.
I see them and Arsenal as teams we should seriously be trying to finish above but them retaining Kane for 12 more months would make that more difficult, I think that's a fair logical POV.
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If we can win the scruffy games we can finish top six with ease. I keep saying it, but our lack of an "Oh shit, not him" player coming on for the last twenty minutes has always hampered us. Traore and Ings will fit the role nicely.
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For me it will most likely be standard top 4, Leicester and Spurs for 5 and 6. Then a battle between us, Leeds, Arsenal for 7th. If Spurs lose Kane then I think you can add them to that group and battle for 6th. I just don't fancy Everton to compete and I don't fancy West Ham to replicate what they did last season. Signings may change this though. So currently 7th to 9th, possibly 6th to 9th. On paper people might not think Leicester's squad is that much better but they have experience challenging for several years now. Will be interesting to see when Vardy drops off because it will happen soon.
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1. Man City
2. Chelsea
3. Liverpool
4. Manure
5. Leicester
6. West Ham
7. Spurs
8. Arsenal
9. Leeds
10. Everton
11. Villa
12. Southampton
13. Wolves
14. Burnley
15. Brighton
16. Newcastle
17. Watford
18. Palace
19. Norwich
20. Brentford
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Think the top six will be, in no particular order,
Chelsea, Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Leicester and Arsenal (think they’ll come good)
So realistically best for us would be 7th, but we’d be fighting with Spurs, WHU, Leeds & Everton.
There’s always a surprise team, too.
We will be the surprise team. Other clubs will assume that without you-know-who we'll struggle. I think we'll be better, more durable, more varied, more unpredictable in our attacking. Top six at least.
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the thing that will be in our favour this season compared to other seasons; is that the opposition won't know our starting eleven and we no longer have one-way of playing (everything through Grealish)
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Spuds will be an unknown quantity this season under “Nu”-no management, and obviously highly dependent on the Kane situation. For ourselves, it depends how we adapt to life without Grealish on the pitch (change in formation and tactics?) and if our new signings hit the ground running or need time to bed in.
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1. Man City
2. Chelsea
3. Liverpool
4. Manure
5. Leicester
6. West Ham
7. Spurs
8. Arsenal
9. Leeds
10. Everton
11. Villa
12. Southampton
13. Wolves
14. Burnley
15. Brighton
16. Newcastle
17. Watford
18. Palace
19. Norwich
20. Brentford
I don't see West Ham getting 6th and I don't think Everton will be above us.
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I don't think Norwich will be above anybody.
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1. Man City
2. Chelsea
3. Liverpool
4. Manure
5. Leicester
6. West Ham
7. Spurs
8. Arsenal
9. Leeds
10. Everton
11. Villa
12. Southampton
13. Wolves
14. Burnley
15. Brighton
16. Newcastle
17. Watford
18. Palace
19. Norwich
20. Brentford
Tin tack for Smith if that happens.
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I've got a lot of time for Leicester, but I don't think they will maintain a top 6 position this season, I'd have them somewhere around mid-table along with West Ham, Everton and Wolves. The top 4 will be the expected 4, and I think Villa, Spurs and Arsenal will contest 5, 6 and 7th place. Leeds will be 8th.
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1. Liverpool
2. Man City
8. Villa
17. Palace
19. Newcastle
20. Norwich
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Must say will be annoyed if Tottenham manage to hold onto Kane. Man City going out of their way to fuck us over for a player they don't need but not fucking over one of our rivals for a player that they do.
Citeh have openly admitted they are still trying to get Kane.
Yeah, I saw this last night - slaphead saying that they are interested in him? Surely to fuck that is blatant tapping up? It isn't that much different to Dolly saying 'there's a player that wants to join us' in direct reference to James Beattie, surely?
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The tapping up rule has only ever been applied to us.
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The tapping up rule has only ever been applied to us.
It goes on all the time I expect but I was under the impression we got pinged because sugarbags was the only manager daft enough to say something on camera in an interview.
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There are probably loads of examples of other managers doing the same and facing zero punishment.
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Must say will be annoyed if Tottenham manage to hold onto Kane. Man City going out of their way to fuck us over for a player they don't need but not fucking over one of our rivals for a player that they do.
Citeh have openly admitted they are still trying to get Kane.
Yeah, I saw this last night - slaphead saying that they are interested in him? Surely to fuck that is blatant tapping up? It isn't that much different to Dolly saying 'there's a player that wants to join us' in direct reference to James Beattie, surely?
Yep and Pep looked very sheepish in trying to disguise his disappointment that they mostly paid for Grealish with the money they won last season and missed out on Messi in the process…and I don’t believe a word that they won’t be pursuing Messi still (he’s got form for lying through his teeth with regards to their transfer business activity).
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Anything less than a Europa league place will see Deano shown the door sadly. I suppose there might be some kind of concession for losing the player we don’t speak of, but we can’t be arsing about in 10th if we want to kick on and attract even better players next summer
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Europa league spot has to be this season’s target, although anywhere 6th- 10th will be progress. Tough ask though- likely that Man City, Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester will be around top 5. Hat still leaves some serious competition for 6th.
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We could win one of the cups! (run and hides.)
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We could win one of the cups! (run and hides.)
Well, it is our year for the FA Cup this time.
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I’d take finishing 17th for an FA Cup win
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I’d take finishing 17th for an FA Cup win
Not for me. We have to be seen to be progressing up the league table with the amount of investment the owners have put in. It goes without saying that winning a domestic trophy would be absolutely amazing. Its been far too long for a club of our stature. 25 years and counting.
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Top 10 and a cup please
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Can see us finishing above Barca and Inter
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If we can win the scruffy games we can finish top six with ease. I keep saying it, but our lack of an "Oh shit, not him" player coming on for the last twenty minutes has always hampered us. Traore and Ings will fit the role nicely.
I can well imagine El Ghazi and Ings combining for goals. AEG pinging shots in from all over and Ings feeding on the scraps.
We've got strength in depth up front at last!
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Manchester teams and London teams and any other team from north west.
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I’d take finishing 17th for an FA Cup win
Not for me. We have to be seen to be progressing up the league table with the amount of investment the owners have put in. It goes without saying that winning a domestic trophy would be absolutely amazing. Its been far too long for a club of our stature. 25 years and counting.
been supporting Villa for over 40 years now. Just win the FA cup and I can die happy
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I’d take finishing 17th for an FA Cup win
Not for me. We have to be seen to be progressing up the league table with the amount of investment the owners have put in. It goes without saying that winning a domestic trophy would be absolutely amazing. Its been far too long for a club of our stature. 25 years and counting.
been supporting Villa for over 40 years now. Just win the FA cup and I can die happy
What he said.
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We're 40/1 to finish top 4. That seems fair enough but some of the other prices make less sense.
Wolves 30/1
Soton 25/1
Brighton 17/1
Everton 11/1
Arsenal 10/3
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I’d take finishing 17th for an FA Cup win
Not for me. We have to be seen to be progressing up the league table with the amount of investment the owners have put in. It goes without saying that winning a domestic trophy would be absolutely amazing. Its been far too long for a club of our stature. 25 years and counting.
been supporting Villa for over 40 years now. Just win the FA cup and I can die happy
Jammy bastards, all I've seen is 2 League Cups and an Inter Two Bob
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1. Top three are pretty lock in: Man City / Man. U / Chelsea /
2. Race for Europe: Spurs / Liverpool / Leicester
3. Top half: West Ham / Leeds / Arsenal
I’d guess we will finish a solid 8th having flirted with Europe, even fourth, for a bit.
I have changed my mind. I fear Smith will feel obliged to play ALL the attacking players he has signed as a result we lose the midfield battle. I am worried unless we strengthen the middle of the park or Smith is brave enough to put Ings/Watkins on the bench so we can play three in midfield.
Revised to 11th place.
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We're 40/1 to finish top 4. That seems fair enough but some of the other prices make less sense.
Wolves 30/1
Soton 25/1
Brighton 17/1
Everton 11/1
Arsenal 10/3
Would love to know the logic of how Saints are 25/1! Ended last season horribly, selling Ings and probably a few others, not made any major first team signings and Hassenhuttl probably struggle to last the season. Will be one of those seasons where they're floating around bottom 6 for whole year.
Looks like there's an xG fanboy doing the odds with Brighton 17/1 aswell.
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Salernitana
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We're 40/1 to finish top 4. That seems fair enough but some of the other prices make less sense.
Wolves 30/1
Soton 25/1
Brighton 17/1
Everton 11/1
Arsenal 10/3
Would love to know the logic of how Saints are 25/1! Ended last season horribly, selling Ings and probably a few others, not made any major first team signings and Hassenhuttl probably struggle to last the season. Will be one of those seasons where they're floating around bottom 6 for whole year.
Looks like there's an xG fanboy doing the odds with Brighton 17/1 aswell.
We lost HWSNBN and don't have a continental coach. Brighton, I can't explain.
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Brighton at 17s?
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I’d take finishing 17th for an FA Cup win
Not for me. We have to be seen to be progressing up the league table with the amount of investment the owners have put in. It goes without saying that winning a domestic trophy would be absolutely amazing. Its been far too long for a club of our stature. 25 years and counting.
been supporting Villa for over 40 years now. Just win the FA cup and I can die happy
Jammy bastards, all I've seen is 2 League Cups and an Inter Two Bob
The next few years, with the trajectory we’re on, your going to see us win the bloody lot, League, FA Cup, Champions League, Wimbledon, the Grand National, the Tour de France, Miss World. BELIEVE.
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We should be competing for 5th or 6th place.
At least if we don't make it this season we will not be having to worry about losing 'he who shall not be named'. Emi Martinez will probably be getting restless if we don't progress.
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Brighton at 17s?
Yes with Paddy Power.
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We lost HWSNBN and don't have a continental coach. Brighton, I can't explain.
Possibly and yet Deano is favourite to be the next England manager @ 5/1.
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Bookies odds are not based on probability. They are what the market dictates. If enough fools want to back Brighton their odds shorten. The odds do not have any bearing whatsoever on playing performance outcomes. Or as the old horse racing saying puts it 'the horse does not know what price he is'.
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Earlier today, I was out with a Leeds-supporting friend. He reckons it highly unlikely that they'll finish as high as they did last season. His assessment is based on (1) no new signings of note; and (2) Bamford got lucky last season and in reality he's at best a ten goal a season striker at Premier League level.
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We're 40/1 to finish top 4. That seems fair enough but some of the other prices make less sense.
Wolves 30/1
Soton 25/1
Brighton 17/1
Everton 11/1
Arsenal 10/3
Oddschecker has more realistic numbers although I think we should be shorter odds, somewhere around Everton / West Ham. Perhaps they feel losing our best player is going to affect us more than we hope?
Arsenal 5/1
Spurs 5/1
Leeds 13/1
Everton 17/1
West Ham 18/1
Villa 40/1
Brighton 49/1
Wolves 50/1
Southampton 66/1
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They don't "feel" anything. It's an algorithm!
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There are still people that think that Bookmakers sit in smoke filled rooms guessing outcomes.
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Aye. Barring a mid-air crash involving planes carrying the squads of ManCity/ManU/Chelsea/Liverpool, I think they're safe offering those odds.
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They don't "feel" anything. It's an algorithm!
Algorithms have feelings too, man.
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Ok wrong terminology… perhaps the ‘algorithm’ is calculating the missing Grealish factor as higher than we hope
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Where were the Algorithms when we signed Ings?
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His odds to join went in massively a few days before he signed, we were favourites to sign him having not really been in the running beforehand. I would suggest somebody, or a few people, who were in the know made a few quid out of that transfer.
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n/t. bollocks due to not reading the preceding post properly beforehand.
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Ok wrong terminology… perhaps the ‘algorithm’ is calculating the missing Grealish factor as higher than we hope
Its based upon the money they have received in bets and the odds those bets were made on.
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His odds to join went in massively a few days before he signed, we were favourites to sign him having not really been in the running beforehand. I would suggest somebody, or a few people, who were in the know made a few quid out of that transfer.
We should have an algorithm section on H&V so that we all can share in this free money.
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Ok wrong terminology… perhaps the ‘algorithm’ is calculating the missing Grealish factor as higher than we hope
Its based upon the money they have received in bets and the odds those bets were made on.
And less people will be betting on Villa because of him so he is factored in but only by human behaviour on the inputs.
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I'm pretty sure we were third favourites to go down before the season started last summer. Concerned me along the lines of "bookies don't get it wrong". I understand the concept of the odds being automatically changed depending on who's lumping on but it begs the question of who is betting on Brighton to finish top 4?
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His odds to join went in massively a few days before he signed, we were favourites to sign him having not really been in the running beforehand. I would suggest somebody, or a few people, who were in the know made a few quid out of that transfer.
We should have an algorithm section on H&V so that we all can share in this free money.
We have Damo. Just bet against whatever he has bet on and watch the money roll in.
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I'm pretty sure we were third favourites to go down before the season started last summer. Concerned me along the lines of "bookies don't get it wrong". I understand the concept of the odds being automatically changed depending on who's lumping on but it begs the question of who is betting on Brighton to finish top 4?
I would imagine there are some ludicrously optimistic Brighton fans. Either a decent number of them or a small number with lots of money.
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And an optimistic Villa fan is an oxymoron😄
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I'm pretty sure we were third favourites to go down before the season started last summer. Concerned me along the lines of "bookies don't get it wrong". I understand the concept of the odds being automatically changed depending on who's lumping on but it begs the question of who is betting on Brighton to finish top 4?
I would imagine there are some ludicrously optimistic Brighton fans. Either a decent number of them or a small number with lots of money.
Norman Cook has obviously loaded heavy and he's got Nick Cave in on it too.
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If you look at Oddschecker, their average odds for the top 4 are below ours, as you'd expect. Each club has a few strange outliers, which may just be something like special offers.
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His odds to join went in massively a few days before he signed, we were favourites to sign him having not really been in the running beforehand. I would suggest somebody, or a few people, who were in the know made a few quid out of that transfer.
We should have an algorithm section on H&V so that we all can share in this free money.
Sounds good in theory but the algorithm's gonna get you*...
*HTJI
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Consolidation year unless everything clicks straight off. Too many players to fit in in attack, unfit players with no pre season and a midfield that is not good enough for the likely system we will play. Buy a couple of good midfielders and think we will finish somewhere between 6th and 10th. Don't and looking at 9th-12th.
Would imagine that Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Leicester, Spurs will all finish ahead of us. Arsenal have improved and Spurs are still better than us. Leeds, Everton, West Ham, and us will be vying for 8th place and there are always a couple of teams that do better than expected in the mix.
Hoping the new signings all hit the ground running and we get into Europe, but wouldn't be betting on it.
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I'm pretty sure we were third favourites to go down before the season started last summer. Concerned me along the lines of "bookies don't get it wrong". I understand the concept of the odds being automatically changed depending on who's lumping on but it begs the question of who is betting on Brighton to finish top 4?
I would imagine there are some ludicrously optimistic Brighton fans. Either a decent number of them or a small number with lots of money.
I lumped a tenner on us to win the league 200/1, I know . Brighton were 150/1 !!!
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Well the season is about to start, but plenty of players still to come in or leave all over the place. Lets give it a shot.
Chelsea - Lukaku will do it for them. Same story last night. lots of chances, no goals
Man U - bought well I think. Only doubt is a real top class striker
Man City - Could win it if Kane signs. Otherwise I think they'll fall back slightly even with ratboy
Liverpool - People say they'll be back now without the injuries. Not convinced
Arsenal - Make or break season for Arteta. Prediction based on more coming in. if not, few places down
Leicester - Seems to be buying defenders. Not sure Vardy has much left
Spurs - Kane the big doubt. staying or going I think they'll stand still.
Leeds - Had leeds falling away a bit originally after last season but not so sure
Aston Villa - think we'll be worse than last season with ratboy, but better than last season without him.
West Ham - They beat us twice last season. I thought they were complete arse both times. Baffling.
Everton - See a george graham at spurs thing going on there
Wolves - midtable written all over them
Brentford - this season's surprise package
Newcastle - Been hoping Nan's hair's luck will run out but I can't see it.
Brighton- The next 6 teams are pretty interchangeable but will be best of the cannon fodder
Southampton - Lost guaranteed goals in Ings and players like Bertrand. Transitional season at best
Watford - Will survive I think, based on very little
Burnley - Just about survived last season. Luck will run out. Spent F.A.
Crystal Palace - Too many changes, not enough spent.
Norwich - Look this seasons whipping boys for me
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Man City
Man Utd
Chelsea
Liverpool
Leeds
Arsenal
Tottenham
Leicester
West Ham
THE VILLA
Wolves
Brighton
Burnley
Everton
Crystal Palace
Newcastle
Brentford
Watford
Southampton
Norwich
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Man City
Man Utd
Chelsea
Liverpool
Leeds
Arsenal
Tottenham
Leicester
West Ham
THE VILLA
Wolves
Brighton
Burnley
Everton
Crystal Palace
Newcastle
Brentford
Watford
Southampton
Norwich
What the.....
Leeds 5th? If we finish behind all of Leeds, Arsenal and Spurs, I think that will be a failure of a season.
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If we finish behind Leeds, Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester and West Ham it's a failure.
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Agree it’ll mean we haven’t finished the window well and Dean hasn’t been able to gel the team. I expect us to finish 7th or 8th, but we still need a couple of players.
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Man City
Man Utd
Chelsea
Liverpool
Leeds
Arsenal
Tottenham
Leicester
West Ham
THE VILLA
Wolves
Brighton
Burnley
Everton
Crystal Palace
Newcastle
Brentford
Watford
Southampton
Norwich
What the.....
Leeds 5th? If we finish behind all of Leeds, Arsenal and Spurs, I think that will be a failure of a season.
I'm basing it largely on what I don't want to happen. Doesn't seem impossible that Leeds could continue to improve. Just to piss me off.
There's still plenty to be decided but thought would join in seeing as sickbeggar had started it. Tottenham could easily move up or down depending on whether they keep Kane. I've hedged my bets with their position.
I can't decide with us. We were pretty much Champions League standard with Kaminski in the team and relegation fodder without him. So if we have really replaced him, we can challenge much higher than I've predicted. If we haven't, it could be a disappointing season.
We might have a better idea of where things stand by the end of the transfer window. There are no certainties at this stage. Except for Norwich going down.
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Man City
Man Utd
Chelsea
Liverpool
Leeds
Arsenal
Tottenham
Leicester
West Ham
THE VILLA
Wolves
Brighton
Burnley
Everton
Crystal Palace
Newcastle
Brentford
Watford
Southampton
Norwich
The only one I completely disagree with is West Ham. What makes you think they'll be above us? I fancy last season to be a bit of an anomaly. Have they signed anyone to replace Lingard's contribution? I don't see Leeds 5th but I think they'll be top half.
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I'm going with
Chelsea
Liverpool
Man U
Aston Villa
Man City
Arsenal
Leicester
Spurs
Leeds
Wolves
Everton
West Ham
Brighton
Burnley
Palace
Newcastle
Southampton
Brentford
Norwich
Watford
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I can see Chelsea pushing Man City.
Think Manure will drop off a bit.
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Man City
Man Utd
Chelsea
Liverpool
Leeds
Arsenal
Tottenham
Leicester
West Ham
THE VILLA
Wolves
Brighton
Burnley
Everton
Crystal Palace
Newcastle
Brentford
Watford
Southampton
Norwich
The only one I completely disagree with is West Ham. What makes you think they'll be above us? I fancy last season to be a bit of an anomaly. Have they signed anyone to replace Lingard's contribution? I don't see Leeds 5th but I think they'll be top half.
Moyes tended to get Everton above us without spending a huge amount. I feel like he can have continued success at West Ham, without ever being aesthetically pleasing. Also Soucek and Rice is one of the best midfield combinations going. Assuming they hold on to both the rest of the squad seems good enough to be more than competitive.
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Europe will mess West Ham up. They'll be in 45-50 point range so don't see any reason why we can't finish above them.
Very light upfront if Antonio hamstring goes early season.
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Agree re West Ham, but I think they will grind our good results without doing a lot still, Soucek and Rice is a pair I'd love to have in our side. I fancy them to be top 10 still
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I do not think this current squad will improve much on last seasons finish.
Still think we are short in midfield and concerned at the balance in the squad.
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After the window I thought I would bump this.
The 4 top nailed on.
West Ham Leicester Spurs Everton look better prepared for the season.
We will do well to finish top 10
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I can already see I was wrong and CD was right regarding West Ham, they look good. If we can make top 10 then I think that would be an achievement.
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I can already see I was wrong and CD was right regarding West Ham, they look good. If we can make top 10 then I think that would be an achievement.
Agree. Sound of party popper misfiring and paper blowy thing not extending properly as party hat sits sadly skewiff and clearly too small.
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Good bump.... A poll might be good now we have seen the window end and what others have done.
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Good bump.... A poll might be good now we have seen the window end and what others have done.
Yes does the OP need to do that?
Top 4
5 to 10
11 to 15
16 to 20
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Think we will finish somewhere between 10th and 14th. Going for an optimistic 10th, which assumes the following:
1. The new forward options finish the season looking like they have clicked and have a formation that they work in.
2. We avoid major injuries to any of Watkins, Martinez, Konsa, and Mings.
3. The defence performs to last years standard despite the change of formation and personnel ahead of it.
4. We score more goals than last season.
Punting for the table to finish like this:
Group 1
Chelsea
Man City
Liverpool
Leicester
Man Utd
Tottenham
Group 2
West Ham
Arsenal
Everton
THE VILLA
Wolves
Leeds
Group 3
Southampton
Brighton
Burnley
Brentford
Crystal Palace
Newcastle
Watford
Norwich
Think the 7 teams in group one are nailed on to finish in the top 7. Think we are battling for 8th place and hoping that gets us into Europe, or to win a cup to get us into Europe. Of the teams we are scrapping with I think West Ham, Arsenal and Everton will all finish above us, but fairly confident we have enough to finish above Leeds and Wolves. Hopefully everything clicks and we get into Europe in 8th or by winning a trophy.
Think the remaining teams are all capable of getting relegated, anyones guess which three go down.
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Can't believe Arsenal are seen as a better bet for finishing higher than Villa this season! Unless the assumption is Arteta get's the bullet soon and they get a decent Head Coach in?
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Can't believe Arsenal are seen as a better bet for finishing higher than Villa this season! Unless the assumption is Arteta get's the bullet soon and they get a decent Head Coach in?
They finished above us last season, and finished on the best form in the league. They have kept their best players and spent more than any other team adding good players the the squad. If Arteta doesn't improve they will sack him and appoint a manager like Conte who will do well. Whilst it is possible we finish above them, it is more likely we wont.
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I'm expecting a top half finish with aspirations for top 6. So I guess 6-10 is where I think we'll finish. If we finish lower than last season it's a failure.
My only qualifier on that is if we continue with our luck with injuries etc... To have Bailey, Traore, Watkins, McGinn, Ramsey, Mings, Konsa, Trezeguet all out has been a nightmare start.
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Can't believe Arsenal are seen as a better bet for finishing higher than Villa this season! Unless the assumption is Arteta get's the bullet soon and they get a decent Head Coach in?
They finished above us last season, and finished on the best form in the league. They have kept their best players and spent more than any other team adding good players the the squad. If Arteta doesn't improve they will sack him and appoint a manager like Conte who will do well. Whilst it is possible we finish above them, it is more likely we wont.
I agree with this, I think between 12th and 9th
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- Chelsea
- Manc City
- Liverpool
- Manc United
- Leicester
- Spurs
- Arsenal
- Everton
- THE VILLA
- Leeds United
- West Ham
- Soton
- Crystal Palace
- Wolves
- Brentford
- Burnley
- Newcastle
- Brighton
- Watford
- Norwich
Think 7th-11th will be really tight, and 15th-18th will be too. Brentford to be a bit of a 'surprise package' and take up Brighton's position as hanging around the bottom half of the table.
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21/22 season 6 matches played.
Well there's a renewed optimism after yesterday and having played 6 matches currently sit 8th
Which means we're ahead of 12 clubs in the table (pre Sunday matches)
Brentford Tottenham Watford Leicester Arsenal Crystal Palace Southampton Wolves Newcastle Leeds Burnley Norwich.
Leicester, Spurs and Arsenal are the only 3 below us that could finish ahead based on squads and recent seasons. I think it would be great to finish ahead of those 3 clubs
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I like to think when all said and done we'll finish higher than Brighton
It would be another good showing for Dean Smith to be higher than Potter- who seems to get more praise than Deano in media.
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I like to think when all said and done we'll finish higher than Brighton
It would be another good showing for Dean Smith to be higher than Potter- who seems to get more praise than Deano in media.
Probably because they're 5th and we're 13th.
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I think we'll finish above Brighton too. Flash in the pan.
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I think we'll finish above Brighton
Be still my beating heart.
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- Chelsea
- Manc City
- Liverpool
- Manc United
- Leicester
- Spurs
- Arsenal
- Everton
- THE VILLA
- Leeds United
- West Ham
- Soton
- Crystal Palace
- Wolves
- Brentford
- Burnley
- Newcastle
- Brighton
- Watford
- Norwich
Think 7th-11th will be really tight, and 15th-18th will be too. Brentford to be a bit of a 'surprise package' and take up Brighton's position as hanging around the bottom half of the table.
Right now 9th is looking optimistic
I think these will all finish above Villa unless Smith gets his arse into gear or the owners pull a rabbit out of the hat, managerial wise
Leeds United
West Ham
Soton
Crystal Palace
Wolves
:(
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Will there be three by the end of this season?
A couple of people said to me after Wolves that it had the feel of Leicester in the apocalypse season. I sort of nodded but thought "no chance, we're better than that now". I hope I was right.
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Will there be three by the end of this season?
A couple of people said to me after Wolves that it had the feel of Leicester in the apocalypse season. I sort of nodded but thought "no chance, we're better than that now". I hope I was right.
That is unlikely, but the possibility cannot be ruled out. We need to put points on the board really quickly, otherwise the pressure will build. We have the players to be comfortably safe, but so did other clubs that made the drop.
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I said at the time Wolves was a season defining game. It was just such a catastrophic collapse it either goes one way or the other. It went the other.
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For Smith, not for Aston Villa.
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We’ll that kind of depends on the owners now doesn’t it.
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At this rate, we’re not going to finish above many.
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We’ll that kind of depends on the owners now doesn’t it.
They need to act, and then be prepared to spend £25 million and a couple of loans in Jan.
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Millwall, Luton and Fucking Preston at this rate.
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Blues, Baggies and Walsall. Only just.
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Bump at (nearly) halfway point.
No longer worried about finishing bottom 3, as was looking a risk at the end of Deano's reign.
I know it is early days but we look more than capable of picking up points against most of the league under Gerrard. So I'm feeling reasonably confident we can finish at least 12th, above Norwich, Newcastle, Burnley, Watford, Leeds, Brentford, Saints, Palace.
I think our upper limit is 8th. Would be delighted with top half.
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I’d be disappointed if we finished bottom half from what we’ve seen since Gerard’s come in. 8th and possibly 7th is reachable with some fortune.
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Our 3 defeats under Gerrard have been against the top 3 and it’s fair to say we’ve there have been plenty of positives in those defeats. If we continue to beat the lower teams and teams around us as we have, then there is no reason we won’t finish top half. Top 8 will come if we beat the teams above us which is the next step.
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We're 6th points off West ham. I expect Man U to get 4th and us to finish below Arsenal who are a long way ahead so anything below 5th is up for grabs. Certainly 8th or 9th on Mr Gerrard's showing so far is more than possible. Depends if the money/players are there to strengthen in January.
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14th now but with the fast track quality signings made I think can raise a couple of places though it will be tough for consistency to be higher than 8th and that's if everything goes well.
I would be looking at finish of around 8-12
With 8-9th being most impressive.
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SG talked of internal targets and teams we want to rein back in and finishing above after it was suggested had kinder fixtures so to speaking.
But he's not to mention which teams and points totals.
Didn't want to give headlines but when looking at the table and points as it is we have Brighton Wolves in our sights but perhaps he was suggesting bigger named clubs.
I think this was said before Leeds match
Say we finish above of one of Man Utd Arsenal or Spurs then that would be deemed exceedingly good as we would have produced plenty of wins to rise Villas points total.
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If we said we been matching Leicester for points this season at this stage we been pleased based on recent seasons. And what we had in mind at start of season to be challenging to get into the top 6 or 7 of course instead we are challenging for 11th place.
Somewhat of a stand still
In an interview back in the summer Smith saw similarities between Villa and recent progress made by Leicester.
“Hopefully the Midlands is thriving again. Obviously Leicester are the ones we look up to at the moment and try to emulate – and hopefully pass.”
Feb 20 current top 7
Man City
Liverpool
Chelsea
Man Utd
West Ham
Arsenal
Wolves
Wolves are showing with an inexperienced manager what can be achieved 6points of 4th place with 2 games in hand
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At least three hopefully.......
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Bump
14th it is, barring a miracle. My pre season, and mid season, prediction was 8-12 so it's fair to say this has been a disappointment.
I always thought regression was inevitable after losing he who shall not be named and I thought standing still points wise would be tough. Nonetheless a 10 point drop off is poor and we are miles off Europe. Ho hum.
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Pretty rubbish league position and without very many fun matches. Man U away, that's about it. Minimum next year has to be challenging for Europe and beating the revolting Sky Six clubs more often. We couldn't even get a point against Wolves, FFS.
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14th is terrible, winning six at home is even worse and unable to get a win again Palace and Burnley in the final fixtures at Villa Park is embarrassing.
The players we have are more than good enough for a top half finish
If the manager was a no name he'd be gone
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14th is terrible, winning six at home is even worse and unable to get a win again Palace and Burnley in the final fixtures at Villa Park is embarrassing.
The players we have are more than good enough for a top half finish
If the manager was a no name he'd be gone
Rubbish and you know it.
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After the Southampton loss we were projected to get 42 points and finish 14th, leading to Dean's sacking. It now looks like we will finish 3 points better off but no higher and no closer to the top half. I did think the Top 10 was achieavble, but it's hard not to feel like we have gone backwards this season.
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After the Southampton loss we were projected to get 42 points and finish 14th, leading to Dean's sacking. It now looks like we will finish 3 points better off but no higher and no closer to the top half. I did think the Top 10 was achieavble, but it's hard not to feel like we have gone backwards this season.
Where did the 42 points and 14th come from? On his points per game this season we'd be relegated.
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I agree that 14th is a really poor outcome.
It was fine margins in the end and but for the odd missed chance here and error there it could have been 10th or 11th.
I think I've seen enough to be reasonably positive about next season and Gerrard generally. Some of our players excite me and with Ramsey's breakthrough, the Coutinho signing and the way Digne, Buendia and McGinn finished the season all bode well.
But that doesn't mean we haven't underperformed with the squad at our disposal. Man for man we are better than Southampton, Palace, Newcastle, Brentford & Brighton. Frankly I think our squad is better than Wolves' too. In that context, we should have done better.
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Disappointing season thanks in large part to Jack fucking off when he did, and the bungled spending of the unwanted windfall. Starting off with a preseason preperation that consisted of a goodbye party in a school playing field in London didn't help. Add in a disjointed squad with new players that have mostly failed to sparkle and a managerial change midway through the season and it was never going to end well.
Next season with three strong signings to improve the spine and allow Gerrard to play 2-3 formations that don't leave us with a midfield like a sieve I think we will do a lot better. I think we end up below Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United, Spurs, and Arsenal. I think we will be scrapping with Leicester, Newcastle (will spend a lot) and West Ham for a finishing place between 7th and 10th. We will finish above everyone else.
Best guess ahead of the summer transfers coming in is that we will finish 9th.
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It is going to take 3 very good signings to change our situation significantly.
Or it’s pretty much more of the same.
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It is going to take 3 very good signings to change our situation significantly.
Or it’s pretty much more of the same.
Where are you now with this?? I feel more moves needed though even so there's enough to finish higher than 14th.
I asking and opening the discussion as there have been significant moves by other clubs .
Liverpool and Man City over a season have to admit won't be competing with them despite that we can certainly even best them on the day.
Interesting what Newcastle , Leeds, Spurs and Arsenal are doing transfer business wise.
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We certainly have to look at finishing above Palace, Brentford and Brighton, while Wolves and Leicester are bothe good teams, they are gettable.
Newcastle could be a bit of a wild card. They might do exceptionally well, or flop.
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We certainly have to look at finishing above Palace, Brentford and Brighton, while Wolves and Leicester are bothe good teams, they are gettable.
Newcastle could be a bit of a wild card. They might do exceptionally well, or flop.
I think this is a really fair and honest assessment.
But, it’s really brings home where we are staring from when we target finishing above Brentford, Brighton and Palace!
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The signings thus far look good. Of course they may underwhelm or fail to settle, but are at least in the right positions and allow us to play Gerrards prefered formations better.
We have gone from having the hapless Luiz as our only option as DM, to Kamara, Nakamba and Iroegbunum fast emerging too. Defence looks stronger for the additions of Costa, Chambers and Digne. Coutinho and Buendia are both very good players. Ramsey will continue to improve. Ings and Watkins looked much better towards the end of the season, and both Archer and Davis offer something different in reserve. Bailey and Traore are both good players that injury free and a with good pre-season should offer more this season.
If we have no other signings I think we will finish top 10, and possibly as high as 8th. If we switch out Sanson and Luiz for another 'Coutinho level improvement' and add a striker better than Ings or Watkins then I can see us finishing somewhere between 6th and 8th.
Either way we will do better than last year as we have a more balanced squad, the youngsters are a year more experienced and Gerrard has a proper pre-season to get the squad playing the way he wants.
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The signings thus far look good. Of course they may underwhelm or fail to settle, but are at least in the right positions and allow us to play Gerrards prefered formations better.
We have gone from having the hapless Luiz as our only option as DM, to Kamara, Nakamba and Iroegbunum fast emerging too. Defence looks stronger for the additions of Costa, Chambers and Digne. Coutinho and Buendia are both very good players. Ramsey will continue to improve. Ings and Watkins looked much better towards the end of the season, and both Archer and Davis offer something different in reserve. Bailey and Traore are both good players that injury free and a with good pre-season should offer more this season.
If we have no other signings I think we will finish top 10, and possibly as high as 8th. If we switch out Sanson and Luiz for another 'Coutinho level improvement' and add a striker better than Ings or Watkins then I can see us finishing somewhere between 6th and 8th.
Either way we will do better than last year as we have a more balanced squad, the youngsters are a year more experienced and Gerrard has a proper pre-season to get the squad playing the way he wants.
I think that's fair. Alarm bells would be ringing if we don't finish comfortably in the top half - 8th or 9th but with a decent gap below us. 6th or 7th possible if the signings we've made over the past 18 months start firing on all cylinders (plus Watkins, who I think can do better than he did last season)
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I think we need another couple of signings. A really top notch striker would be nice. If we stay as we are, then top 8 will be about the limit of our ambitions I think.
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I genuinely think we need to finish 8th or higher next season. Any lower and Gerrard should be at serious risk unless there's significant mitigating circumstances.
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We can hope that West Ham, Leicester, and Wolves continue to be poor so that we can gain three league positions and overtake them. Wolves seem in decline and West Ham now seem to be stumbling under Moyes. Leicester also have perhaps reached their heights.
If we can finish higher than Palace and Brentford, who were just ahead of us in the table, we will be in ninth place as there would only be 8 teams ahead of us.
Brighton and Newcastle are teams on the ascendancy so we would be looking to compete with them for 7th place.
That's based on current teams forms and that we expect to better than all the clubs that finished below us last season and promoted teams.
Gerrard I think alluded to our budget and size of club should be seeing us above likes of Palace and Brentford without directly name checking them.
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I'll revise this where Villa will finish come September 24th when Gerrard and Villa has 10 matches.
Wolves and Leicester have been struggling and not sure where West Ham are at but its early to judge.
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At this moment in time and I’m serious Bournemouth are the only team I can see us finishing above.
We have a tactically inept manager. We are starting each game with ten men as the captain is a nailed on starter. The system we play the wing backs are not good enough to make it work. The midfield is weak. And we are not exactly prolific scorers.
I’ve thought of another team - Everton but as we know they never end up going down.
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At this moment in time and I’m serious Bournemouth are the only team I can see us finishing above.
We have a tactically inept manager. We are starting each game with ten men as the captain is a nailed on starter. The system we play the wing backs are not good enough to make it work. The midfield is weak. And we are not exactly prolific scorers.
I’ve thought of another team - Everton but as we know they never end up going down.
As it stands, it looks like it's going to be a long and tough season. Hope we do some amazing business in the rest of the transfer window.
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Ironically and amazingly, and for all the noise, we are currently placed above where we finished last season.
But of course we haven’t played the top teams yet.
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At this moment in time and I’m serious Bournemouth are the only team I can see us finishing above.
We have a tactically inept manager. We are starting each game with ten men as the captain is a nailed on starter. The system we play the wing backs are not good enough to make it work. The midfield is weak. And we are not exactly prolific scorers.
I’ve thought of another team - Everton but as we know they never end up going down.
As it stands, it looks like it's going to be a long and tough season. Hope we do some amazing business in the rest of the transfer window.
So West Ham lost again today 3 defeats in a row.
Leicester have only 1pt from their 3 matches and squanded a 2-0 lead last week
Man Utd have started poorly but could overtake Liverpool if they beat them
Chelsea were poor today in losing to Leeds who are now 2nd in the table. We comfortably beat Leeds in pre season
Wolves haven't won this season and in 10 games stretching back to last season.
Aren't some of these early season results and form with other teams suggesting that it's a case anything can happen at the moment.
The results over the weekend shows anything is possible really to where we could finish
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Yes you're right Footy. The bottom three in Leicester, West Ham and Man U are three teams who have been fighting for the top 4 in recent seasons. Chelsea were every bit as bad today as we were against Palace, they were abysmal.
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Certainly have to live in hope right now.
All the league table currently is just based on form of 3 matches played.
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Not many.
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Not many.
On current form, you're spot on, mate
Man Utd are the only team I've seen this season to look worse than us.
Leicester and West Ham haven't been great, admittedly, but look far less of an utter mess than we do.
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Teams we’ll finish above next season?
The Rags, Albion, Hull, Boro, Sheff U……..Maybe Norwich if they don’t get promoted this season.
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Not many.
On current form, you're spot on, mate
Man Utd are the only team I've seen this season to look worse than us.
Leicester and West Ham haven't been great, admittedly, but look far less of an utter mess than we do.
West Ham who have lost three on the spin and haven't scored a goal yet?
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Not many.
On current form, you're spot on, mate
Man Utd are the only team I've seen this season to look worse than us.
Leicester and West Ham haven't been great, admittedly, but look far less of an utter mess than we do.
West Ham who have lost three on the spin and haven't scored a goal yet?
and who would they want to play next?
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Not many.
On current form, you're spot on, mate
Man Utd are the only team I've seen this season to look worse than us.
You must have missed the Everton game, mate.
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Everton, Bournemouth, Southampton maybe.... 15th-16th looks about right atm
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Everton, Bournemouth, Southampton maybe.... 15th-16th looks about right atm
I was looking at Southampton 11 at 2.50pm on Saturday and thought to myself that looks the worst line up in the league....and they go and beat Leicester away from a goal down!
We certainly aren't capable of that type of result currently, pretty much all of our wins under Gerrard have been getting the first goal I think.
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If we don't finish above Everton then I reckon we should request to go straight to League 1.
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That Onana looks a player though. Get Calvert Lewin fit and they will scrape a few wins.
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Before the season started expectations were generally too high. I remember one comment that said something like anything less than top 6 would be failure.
I think they’re at risk of being too low now. The bookies have us around 11th. We’ve had a poor start but beat Everton and created quite a decent amount against Palace.
I’d love for us to have signed another central midfielder, maybe striker, and for Carlos not to have got injured, but we’re not in a terrible place in my opinion.
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Hopefully we finish above at least 3 other teams.
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We will. I reckon we'll be 11th or 12th come the end of the season.
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We will. I reckon we'll be 11th or 12th come the end of the season.
Yeah, I don't fear relegation at all. I'll be surprised if we finished below 14th but that is obviously still shit.
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Maybe because it's early but it's noticeable how fallible and way off teams have been.
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As far as I can see, matches are being played and teams are either winning, losing or drawing.
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As far as I can see, matches are being played and teams are either winning, losing or drawing.
"Every game is difficult. The ball is round".
That's a real quote from days of yore. And no, it was not Eric Cantona.
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Similar season to last year only at least 1 team below us has strengthened enough to catch us, most likely leeds, so 15th. A good season given the squad available, so the manager should not be sacked for achieving this. Carlos staying fit probably would see us achieve 12th-14th
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15th qould not be a good season. Neither would 12th-14th.
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Repeatedly finishing in the bottom half only ends one way these days.
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Similar season to last year only at least 1 team below us has strengthened enough to catch us, most likely leeds, so 15th. A good season given the squad available, so the manager should not be sacked for achieving this. Carlos staying fit probably would see us achieve 12th-14th
Gerrard said that finishing 14th for Aston Villa was "unacceptable" last season. His words.
If we are 14th this season or even 15th then his position is untenable, surely? (Should he last that long)
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Similar season to last year only at least 1 team below us has strengthened enough to catch us, most likely leeds, so 15th. A good season given the squad available, so the manager should not be sacked for achieving this. Carlos staying fit probably would see us achieve 12th-14th
Gerrard said that finishing 14th for Aston Villa was "unacceptable" last season. His words.
If we are 14th this season or even 15th then his position is untenable, surely? (Should he last that long)
He can say that, heaping pressure on himself but i was making my own assessment of the team.
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Was discussing this coming away from the game today. Bournemouth, Forest. Who else? Saints, Wolves, Leicester, Everton all started poorly. It is a bit of a worry after that dross today though.
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Forest, Leeds and Wolves are to my observations the weakest teams.
Forest and Leeds lack quality and Wolves lack goals and a manager.
We'll be finishing ahead of these lot and then some with Emery .
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Agree with Footy, there's 6 points between 11th and 20th, with some proper coaching we will be fine.
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13th place at the moment.
Brentford, Palace, Leeds United, and Fulham are the teams directly above us in the standings. Without a doubt, given our investment, size, and stature, we anticipate being ahead of all of these clubs this season.
So we are now looking then at 9th when we pass that lot.
With Emery in place, I'm optimistic that this team will finish this season above these teams and in the top half competing against the likes of Spurs, Manchester United, and Chelsea.
They all don't particularly impress me, and if it weren't for Kane, Son, and their manager at Spurs they wouldn't be in fourth place.
After playing a tonne of games last season at Liverpool they are behind the pace . And Chelsea, Man Utd, have transitioning teams the table shows that 4th and 3rd are up for grabs in many respects. There is an opportunity this season. A really good opportunity.
Who knows where we can finish with a good winter window and everything to play for in the second half of the campaign?
I feel like this is a team under a manager who can be going on a winning run now like Dean Smith did after for the journey to the playoffs and ensuing promotion!
With Emery, we shall raise up the table.
We won't be looking back, we'll be looking up and forward, and I don't believe I'm alone in that thinking.
In fact, placing above Leeds, Brentford, Fulham, and Palace isn't really improvement; it's just the very least, and that's not meant to be disrespectful to those clubs. It will be the very continuous improvement we have anticipated to be finishing top 6/8.
Up the Villa!
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Feb 2023 state of play
11th in the league 20 games played 28pts.
3pts off top 6
How high can we finish? Continuous improvement to rise above and have to play them all chelsea, liverpool, brentford away. Fulham and Brighton home.
Yes or No:
Chelsea ?
Liverpool ?
Brentford ?
Fulham?
Brighton ?
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Above the reds by 1 and blue by 5.
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Chelsea Fulham tonight. Can go above either or both results depending
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I think we can finish 6th this season. Forget spurs and above, too far ahead and too much quality, but the rest including Chelsea and Liverpool are teams we could pass if they continue being mediocre and we can continue our run.
Having said that, injuries and squad depth, esp up front, are our biggest risk.
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Chelsea and Fulham draw, so its an opportunity to go above Chelsea in the table today.
Emery stressed how the next step is to get into the top 10.
Let it be so!
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I think we can finish 6th this season. Forget spurs and above, too far ahead and too much quality, but the rest including Chelsea and Liverpool are teams we could pass if they continue being mediocre and we can continue our run.
Having said that, injuries and squad depth, esp up front, are our biggest risk.
If we win today and Citeh beat Spurs tomorrow then we're 5 points behind them with a game in hand. Not saying we'll overtake them but it's not insurmountable. An injury to Kane and Spurs being Spursy could derail their season just as much as injury to a Kamara or Watkins could ours.
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I think we can finish 6th this season. Forget spurs and above, too far ahead and too much quality, but the rest including Chelsea and Liverpool are teams we could pass if they continue being mediocre and we can continue our run.
Having said that, injuries and squad depth, esp up front, are our biggest risk.
If we win today and Citeh beat Spurs tomorrow then we're 5 points behind them with a game in hand. Not saying we'll overtake them but it's not insurmountable. An injury to Kane and Spurs being Spursy could derail their season just as much as injury to a Kamara or Watkins could ours.
I think I should just shut up.
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After today I think this whole thread should be closed down.
I suspect we’re still going to be focussed on looking down rather than up for a while.
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After today I think this whole thread should be closed down.
I suspect we’re still going to be focussed on looking down rather than up for a while.
At least with Palace losing we're still locked in our one way battle to finish 11th. I think we'll have two crushing defeats against Man City and Arsenal though, and we know how mentally weak this lot are, so think the rest of the season will limp on to nothingness after that.
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Better to look at points.
Last season we limped to 45 points under a poor manager but still could've got more if we'd hung on to the leads late on v Palace and Man. City fo course.
17 games still left so if we average a point a game from now we'll equal that.
We should be doing better than that though even if games like today make that harder. Win 7 games and draw a couple and we'll be in the 50-55 range and that probably won't be far off what Chelsea, Liverpool and Fulham finish on.
We've won 3/3 on the road under Emery so far so two more away wins shouldn't be beyond us and winning another 5 home games to get to double figures in home games is still just about a realistic target.
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Liverpool and Chelsea are in transition, and it is possible that this will continue into next season.
Of course, this season with the World Cup break is unique, and promoted Fulham, Brentford, and the most impressive Brighton have all performed admirably.
The league is very interesting in that the Spurs haven't looked particularly impressive this season despite sitting in fifth place. Leicester, Wolves, and West Ham have all been excellent in recent seasons but are lowly in league and not in the top haf.
League Table as it Stands 5th Feb (rest of feb fixture in brackets)
6th Brighton 34pts
(Crystal Palace a, Fulham h)
7th Brentford 33pts
(Arsenal a, Palace h)
8th Fulham 32pts
(Forest h, Brighton a, Wolves h)
9th Chelsea 30pts
(West Ham a, Southampton h, Spurs a)
10th Liverpool 29pts
(Everton h, Newcastle a, Crystal Palace a)
11th Aston Villa 28pts
(Man city a, Arsenal h, Everton a)
Who knows where Villa will finish given the 6 points and 2 wins separating us in 11th and Brighton in 6th.
Fixtures this month see:
6th Brighton and 8th Fulham are to play each other soon so dropped points will occurring to at least one team.
Brentford and Brighton only play 2 matches a chance to gain on them
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Whereas others lost faith and gave up in February I hadn't.
Chelsea we are to finish ahead of and there's a chance to be finishing above Spurs.
Now the only question is will we finish ahead of Spurs and Brighton?
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This depends on results in the games to play.
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2023/24
Luton Town for sure.
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I reckon Luton will pull off a comedy, sub 15 points season.
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I've always wondered if it ever crossed the mind of a small team coming up to just think 'fuck it', take the cash, accept relegatation but secure the clubs future for a long time.
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I've always wondered if it ever crossed the mind of a small team coming up to just think 'fuck it', take the cash, accept relegatation but secure the clubs future for a long time.
Norwich have been doing that for at least a decade.
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I've always wondered if it ever crossed the mind of a small team coming up to just think 'fuck it', take the cash, accept relegatation but secure the clubs future for a long time.
That was Albion's strategy in 2002 - come up, don't spend much, go down, get the parachute payments, come up again.
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I've always wondered if it ever crossed the mind of a small team coming up to just think 'fuck it', take the cash, accept relegatation but secure the clubs future for a long time.
Norwich. More than once.
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Norwich always gave it a semi decent go though, didn't they? They were just shit. I've got got a shocking memory so maybe not.
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I've always wondered if it ever crossed the mind of a small team coming up to just think 'fuck it', take the cash, accept relegatation but secure the clubs future for a long time.
Yeah, but we saw with the Grealish money things don't always go to plan.
I'd be all for the us/Fulham/Forest approach. Life's too short, may as well go for it. Won't always work out, but there's a far higher success rate than what, say, Norwich end up with.
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Norwich always gave it a semi decent go though, didn't they? They were just shit. I've got got a shocking memory so maybe not.
Nah. They banked (I'm guessing) 70% of the cash and then gave the manager a few quid thinking that anything he achieves with it would be a bonus.
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I've always wondered if it ever crossed the mind of a small team coming up to just think 'fuck it', take the cash, accept relegatation but secure the clubs future for a long time.
Norwich with the added bonus of selling their best players.