Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sirlordbaltimore on August 01, 2020, 01:09:23 PM

Title: North Stand Demolition
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on August 01, 2020, 01:09:23 PM


With the chances of stadium crowds, even smaller/limited numbers being allowed back into Villa Park this year being very unlikely. Wouldn't now be the ideal, and obvious time to knock the old girl down and build the new one?

Why wait until we can have crowds in again, and then have all that hassle of having to limit crowds due to being a stand light, and moving season ticket holders etc by using this unexpected down time to get it done now?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 01, 2020, 01:44:39 PM


With the chances of stadium crowds, even smaller/limited numbers being allowed back into Villa Park this year being very unlikely. Wouldn't now be the ideal, and obvious time to knock the old girl down and build the new one?

Why wait until we can have crowds in again, and then have all that hassle of having to limit crowds due to being a stand light, and moving season ticket holders etc by using this unexpected down time to get it done now?

If we demolish it now,the numbers allowed in the ground would be even less.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 01, 2020, 01:52:03 PM
With the architectural profession's current love in with Brutalism if we don't knock it down soon it will get Listed Building status.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Damo70 on August 01, 2020, 01:58:23 PM
I think 'North Stand Demolition' is a good name for a band.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: maidstonevillain on August 01, 2020, 02:02:15 PM
With the architectural profession's current love in with Brutalism if we don't knock it down soon it will get Listed Building status.

I'm a great fan of brutalism. Demolishing the library was criminal. But I think the North Stand is way off any possible listing.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Axl Rose on August 01, 2020, 02:05:38 PM
Knock it down.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 01, 2020, 02:16:06 PM
Absolutely maidstone.  Great to find a kindred architectural spirit on here.  I was one of the first 100 to sign the petition to demolish St Pancras station.  What the North Stand has going for it is the plausible myth perpetuated by HDE that the structure was deliberately bulked up to take a future hotel.  Buildings these days can be regarded as having historic significance for non architectural reasons, WW2 prefabs beimg a typical example.  Cardington airship hangar being another.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Villa Lew on August 01, 2020, 04:26:10 PM
The way things are going, it's quite possible we could be playing the whole of next season with no spectators, so it's a yes from me.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: eamonn on August 01, 2020, 04:47:49 PM
I think 'North Stand Demolition' is a good name for a band.

African Car Reverser's difficult second album.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: CT on August 01, 2020, 04:50:21 PM
I think it’s a really good point. Without sounding like the harbinger of doom, I have a feeling we won’t be going back next season at all.

It would be ready for the 2021/22 season.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Mister E on August 01, 2020, 05:39:31 PM

With the chances of stadium crowds, even smaller/limited numbers being allowed back into Villa Park this year being very unlikely. Wouldn't now be the ideal, and obvious time to knock the old girl down and build the new one?
Why wait until we can have crowds in again, and then have all that hassle of having to limit crowds due to being a stand light, and moving season ticket holders etc by using this unexpected down time to get it done now?
Astonishingly good idea; well done, Sir!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: FatSam on August 01, 2020, 05:52:33 PM
This isn’t going to happen any time soon. The timescales for supporters returning to grounds, and redeveloping this end of the ground don’t align in any way. Real Madrid we’re working on the Bernabéu anyway, so took the opportunity to host their behind closed doors games at their training facility. We would have had to have clear plans in place already in order to exploit the current situation.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ad@m on August 01, 2020, 06:49:48 PM
With the chances of stadium crowds, even smaller/limited numbers being allowed back into Villa Park this year being very unlikely. Wouldn't now be the ideal, and obvious time to knock the old girl down and build the new one?

Why wait until we can have crowds in again, and then have all that hassle of having to limit crowds due to being a stand light, and moving season ticket holders etc by using this unexpected down time to get it done now?

If we demolish it now,the numbers allowed in the ground would be even less.

But if we're assuming allowed crowds will be based on a percentage capacity basis, the impact of knocking the North down this season will be much less than if we were allowed to sell every seat.

I think it's the perfect opportunity to do it now we've confirmed our survival and should be kicking on from here so we're nowhere near the bottom next season.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 01, 2020, 06:55:08 PM
With the chances of stadium crowds, even smaller/limited numbers being allowed back into Villa Park this year being very unlikely. Wouldn't now be the ideal, and obvious time to knock the old girl down and build the new one?

Why wait until we can have crowds in again, and then have all that hassle of having to limit crowds due to being a stand light, and moving season ticket holders etc by using this unexpected down time to get it done now?

If we demolish it now,the numbers allowed in the ground would be even less.

But if we're assuming allowed crowds will be based on a percentage capacity basis, the impact of knocking the North down this season will be much less than if we were allowed to sell every seat.

I think it's the perfect opportunity to do it now we've confirmed our survival and should be kicking on from here so we're nowhere near the bottom next season.

No-one knows what attendances will be like even when full capacity is possible.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 01, 2020, 10:00:52 PM
Any idea what the stage the design is at and status of any planning permission?

You’re looking at 3-month planning, probably six months to design it and maybe three months to tender and procure it.  Some of these tasks - and demolition- could overlap but I reckon you’re looking at six months minimum before any work could start, assuming a standing start.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Virgil Caine on August 01, 2020, 10:12:22 PM
Absolutely maidstone.  Great to find a kindred architectural spirit on here.  I was one of the first 100 to sign the petition to demolish St Pancras station.  What the North Stand has going for it is the plausible myth perpetuated by HDE that the structure was deliberately bulked up to take a future hotel.  Buildings these days can be regarded as having historic significance for non architectural reasons, WW2 prefabs beimg a typical example.  Cardington airship hangar being another.

The Cardington Airships Hangars (there are two) are about three miles from where I live Brian and they are even more impressive now that they have been painted and repaired. As you know they dominate the local skyline and ‘The Sheds’ are an important piece of local history. A little known fact is that the former nearby RAF base at Cardington was the departure point for band leader Glenn Miller, who was never to be seen again.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 01, 2020, 10:14:16 PM
I don't think it's the worst idea tbh.

Really can't see crowds of any sort being allowed in October given the decisions made in last few days and then we're into winter.

In any case 33% of VP capacity is 14k. Can't remember exactly how much the North stand holds but would guess the lower is 2k and upper is about 3.5k so no North stand and third allowed in would be 12k so minimal difference especially if away fans aren't allowed either.

In the very unlikely event we bulldozed the North stand tomorrow you could probably have a decent chunk of the bottom tier open by November/December and get 2k seats that way, we did it with the Trinity all those years ago.

Dosen't seem a high priority for owners but we were getting the crowds in last 18 months and would be frustrating if we got really good again and then decided to do the revamp and lose 5-6k seats.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 01, 2020, 10:15:16 PM
Absolutely maidstone.  Great to find a kindred architectural spirit on here.  I was one of the first 100 to sign the petition to demolish St Pancras station.  What the North Stand has going for it is the plausible myth perpetuated by HDE that the structure was deliberately bulked up to take a future hotel.  Buildings these days can be regarded as having historic significance for non architectural reasons, WW2 prefabs beimg a typical example.  Cardington airship hangar being another.

The Cardington Airships Hangars (there are two) are about three miles from where I live Brian and they are even more impressive now that they have been painted and repaired. As you know they dominate the local skyline and ‘The Sheds’ are an important piece of local history. A little known fact is that the former nearby RAF base at Cardington was the departure point for band leader Glenn Miller, who was never to be seen again.

My aunt and her WAAF colleague waved him and his band off.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 01, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
One of our neighbours at Southwold a very ancient titled lady claimed to have waved off as a WAAF Joe Kennedy Jnr.  That hankie waving didn't bring them much luck did it.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 01, 2020, 11:38:33 PM
One of our neighbours at Southwold a very ancient titled lady claimed to have waved off as a WAAF Joe Kennedy Jnr.  That hankie waving didn't bring them much luck did it.


Could she, at a moment's notice and without drawing breath, give a five-minute vitriol-laden rant about the qualities or otherwise of the USAF in battle conditions? If she could, she would have had something else in common with my aunt.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 02, 2020, 12:42:40 AM
I would do anything for a pair of silk stockings and a toothbrush.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: in exile on August 02, 2020, 08:12:48 AM
I would do anything for a pair of silk stockings and a toothbrush.
Anything?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 02, 2020, 08:44:46 AM
Absolutely maidstone.  Great to find a kindred architectural spirit on here.  I was one of the first 100 to sign the petition to demolish St Pancras station.  What the North Stand has going for it is the plausible myth perpetuated by HDE that the structure was deliberately bulked up to take a future hotel.  Buildings these days can be regarded as having historic significance for non architectural reasons, WW2 prefabs beimg a typical example.  Cardington airship hangar being another.

The Cardington Airships Hangars (there are two) are about three miles from where I live Brian and they are even more impressive now that they have been painted and repaired. As you know they dominate the local skyline and ‘The Sheds’ are an important piece of local history. A little known fact is that the former nearby RAF base at Cardington was the departure point for band leader Glenn Miller, who was never to be seen again.

Haven’t been past Cardington in a while now, good to hear they’ve repaired them both now, having one all shiny and the other falling to bits was a bit odd to say the least. Is the building research facility still in one of them?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 02, 2020, 09:55:13 AM
The upper North Stand provides a good view but has always been the least loved part of Villa Park for many of us.

Brutalist architecture, the upper parts of the rear look like they have come from some neglected council high rise.

Disliked from day one and tarnished by serious financial scandal when constructed.

Apart from the upper tier view the only other good thing is the toilets on the outside corner adjacent to the Trinity if you driving through nearby and need the bog.

Wouldn't be missed.

Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Virgil Caine on August 02, 2020, 10:36:28 AM
Absolutely maidstone.  Great to find a kindred architectural spirit on here.  I was one of the first 100 to sign the petition to demolish St Pancras station.  What the North Stand has going for it is the plausible myth perpetuated by HDE that the structure was deliberately bulked up to take a future hotel.  Buildings these days can be regarded as having historic significance for non architectural reasons, WW2 prefabs beimg a typical example.  Cardington airship hangar being another.

The Cardington Airships Hangars (there are two) are about three miles from where I live Brian and they are even more impressive now that they have been painted and repaired. As you know they dominate the local skyline and ‘The Sheds’ are an important piece of local history. A little known fact is that the former nearby RAF base at Cardington was the departure point for band leader Glenn Miller, who was never to be seen again.

Haven’t been past Cardington in a while now, good to hear they’ve repaired them both now, having one all shiny and the other falling to bits was a bit odd to say the least. Is the building research facility still in one of them?

I think so JC but I’ll check as I know one of the hangars is used to create film sets For Warner Bros.as well as being a rehearsal site for bands doing large venue concerts. Certainly some of the nearby land has been used to build extra houses at Shortstown, so many in fact that the area should be renamed Sprawltown.

Apologies for hijacking the topic heading so to get back on track my vote would be to at least re-shape the North Stand.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 02, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
The upper North Stand provides a good view but has always been the least loved part of Villa Park for many of us.

Brutalist architecture, the upper parts of the rear look like they have come from some neglected council high rise.

Disliked from day one and tarnished by serious financial scandal when constructed.

Apart from the upper tier view the only other good thing is the toilets on the outside corner adjacent to the Trinity if you driving through nearby and need the bog.

Wouldn't be missed.

Agree with all of that to which I'll add that on the the couple of occasions I've been in the Upper North I've found the legroom to be extremely tight. Admittedly I'm taller than average but seemed worse than the other stands.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 02, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
I generally sit in the Holte End. One thing I did like about the North Stand, was if you get to the hane early and have a pint, there is an area where you can stand away from people and drink, which you don't have in the Holte End.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 02, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
On the face of it this is a really good idea. Would they even need permission to demolish it? The way things are going with a second spike in Covid19 I don't see any chance of crowds returning in 2020. There was talk of building a hotel on the land behind it so why not get on with it while we can? We have owners with serious cash and when you look at what they've done around the Etihad it shows the world that they mean business. It would send out the message that we are serious contenders. It's a yes from me.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 02, 2020, 11:37:44 AM
The North Stand is what it is. When it was built it was as ground-breaking and architecturally typical of its era as the Trinity Road was in the twenties. And like the Trinity when it was demolished, it's now outdated. Unlike the Trinity, the views from upstairs are still good.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Des Little on August 02, 2020, 11:38:48 AM
I also agree. If restrictions were lifted I’m sure we could get a couple of thousand lower tier seats in place. I wonder if this is something the club have actually considered? As The Edge just said, it would send a message out that we mean business.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: chrisw1 on August 03, 2020, 05:25:40 PM
It makes sense timing wise regarding crowds, but surely not re FFP?  Right now our number one priority has to be consolidating our place in the PL and I would think we need to use every bit of cash FFP allows to do that over the next few years? 
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: eamonn on August 03, 2020, 05:30:17 PM
I don't think Capital spend would fall within the FFP remit, which is more Profit & Loss oriented as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: chrisw1 on August 03, 2020, 05:38:36 PM
I don't think Capital spend would fall within the FFP remit, which is more Profit & Loss oriented as far as I'm aware.
In that case if the plans are ready to go then it would make a lot of sense to do it now.  I suspect the designs aren't yet sorted and would also guess they want to be sure we're well and truly consolidated in the PL before spending the money.  Shame, agree it's an opportune time.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on August 03, 2020, 05:42:31 PM
I've been a season ticket holder in the NS upper since O'Neils 1st season and it's a fantastic view but since my daughter become a ST holder I've realised  the lack of toilet facilities for women is atrocious and is not for for purpose anymore unfortunately.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: LeeB on August 03, 2020, 06:22:28 PM
I would do anything for a pair of silk stockings and a toothbrush.
Anything?

He'll do most things for a lot less.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ad@m on August 03, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
I don't think Capital spend would fall within the FFP remit, which is more Profit & Loss oriented as far as I'm aware.

Yep, infrastructure expenditure is excluded from the calculation.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: LeeB on August 03, 2020, 06:28:51 PM
Absolutely maidstone.  Great to find a kindred architectural spirit on here.  I was one of the first 100 to sign the petition to demolish St Pancras station.  What the North Stand has going for it is the plausible myth perpetuated by HDE that the structure was deliberately bulked up to take a future hotel.  Buildings these days can be regarded as having historic significance for non architectural reasons, WW2 prefabs beimg a typical example.  Cardington airship hangar being another.

Count me in with the brutalist love in. Plus, I love my seat in the North Stand, so the opening post can, with the greatest of respect, piss off.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ads on August 03, 2020, 06:31:31 PM
I'm sick of looking at the thing. Knock it down!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: IFWaters on August 03, 2020, 07:17:27 PM
While I agree the sooner its gone the better, and that it would make sense to invest in the area in a likely downturn, I dont believe its clear what should be in its place. To me the problematic stand is the Witton Lane which is too narrow. Without knowing what can be built there I dont think you can work out how the North Stand can be designed. Im not advocating filling in the corners, bar perhaps 10-15 rows near the pitch, but you cant decide how wide to make the North Stand without knowing what the plan for Witton Lane will be.

Personally I would go for another double decker like the Holte, downstairs for cheap seats with a heavy discount for actual local residents within 2 miles of the ground, it would open the door to the local area and community who I believe havent been invited into the club which bears their name , and lets face it, delivers a significant amount of disruption to their lives. Mirror the Holte as theres space out back and build shops into the back of the stand. Then replace the Witton Lane with another double decker built over the road with the same roofline as the Trinity. Aim for 56,000 capacity which would put us back in the 5 largest grounds in England, which lets be honest is where we all know we belong.

When you read the comments by away fans, the most recurring one is "Proper FOOTBALL GROUND". Not stadium. 4 seperate stands - ok - maybe some screens and boxes in the corners, but 4 massive stands NOT AN IDENTIKIT BOWL.  It would be appropriate for Aston Villa to establish the Football League Museum as face it , we invented it, not that aberation in Manchester. That could be housed in the Witton Lane or a seperate building within the grounds, perhaps behind the Holte.

In terms of the finish the whole lot, including the Trinity, should be faced with Brick. A great eff off Brick fortress covered in Mosaics the like of which Gaudi would use. The pundshop cladding on the Trinity can do one.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 03, 2020, 07:40:53 PM
If you want to keep the local community onside, you're not going to do it by plunging many of them into perpetual twilight by making the Witton Lane roof higher than it is now.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: KevinGage on August 03, 2020, 07:50:44 PM
Went past Charlton's ground over the weekend and it reminded me again of the benefits of building below ground level.

I'd sooner do that to add on an extra 10,000 or so capacity than alter the look of the four main stands.  Well OK, was never a big fan of the Doug Ellis, so they can bulldoze that and reattempt a more contemporary effort.

The North needs gutting in the concourses and at the rear, but pitchside, it has been the one constant from the successful late 70s, 80s and 90s teams until now. Keep it, but sort it out.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 03, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
Went past Charlton's ground over the weekend and it reminded me again of the benefits of building below ground level.

I'd sooner do that to add on an extra 10,000 or so capacity than alter the look of the four main stands.  Well OK, was never a big fan of the Doug Ellis, so they can bulldoze that and reattempt a more contemporary effort.

The North needs gutting in the concourses and at the rear, but pitchside, it has been the one constant from the successful late 70s, 80s and 90s teams until now. Keep it, but sort it out.
Spending millions on fixing up the North stand would be a really bad move in my view. The North stand is marmite amongst Villa fans but I'd guess that the split is 75/25 against keeping it. It's time to build a state of the art stand befitting our heritage. What you're suggesting sounds so Doug Ellis.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: maidstonevillain on August 03, 2020, 08:56:19 PM
It makes sense timing wise regarding crowds, but surely not re FFP?  Right now our number one priority has to be consolidating our place in the PL and I would think we need to use every bit of cash FFP allows to do that over the next few years? 

FFP wouldn't come into it. Villa Park is owned by a different Company.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ad@m on August 03, 2020, 09:11:55 PM
I don't think you need to worry about the Witton. Keep four individual stands and fill the corners with exec boxes and the like just the way they currently are.

A massive single tier monster would get my vote - we've got loads of space behind it so let's be ambitious.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Des Little on August 03, 2020, 10:09:24 PM
I like the idea of one big single tier stand too - accommodating executive boxes in each corner would possibly enable this to happen. Build the claret wall!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Risso on August 03, 2020, 10:11:30 PM
It makes sense timing wise regarding crowds, but surely not re FFP?  Right now our number one priority has to be consolidating our place in the PL and I would think we need to use every bit of cash FFP allows to do that over the next few years? 

FFP wouldn't come into it. Villa Park is owned by a different Company.

It wouldn't anyway. As previously stated on this page by Adam, infrastructure expenditure is exempt, whoever owns it.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 03, 2020, 10:17:35 PM
A new “wall” is a great idea.  Although to get the Holte end to move I reckon you’d need safe standing (which I am all in favour of).
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: chrisw1 on August 03, 2020, 10:35:56 PM
I struggle with the idea of trying to make the North Stand the main home terrace. Surely that has to remain the Holte?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 03, 2020, 10:37:35 PM
I love IFWaters concept of brick cladding the IKEA flatpack bequeathed us by HDE.  Antoni Gaudi ceramic finishes would be more legitimate compensation for our Late Victorian  building loss.  Gaudi was a towering genius (run over by a tram) who specialized in architectural insults to neighbours.  We could have some ceramic pigs sporting their curly tails towards Small Heath and dogs heads towards Staffordshire.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: purpletrousers on August 03, 2020, 11:15:54 PM
Aye, massive single stand, bricks/cladding around the ground and Gaudi, well maybe, though I’m thinking Rennie Mackintosh inspired stuff might be truer to some of our roots, more mosaics, but not too many.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ads on August 03, 2020, 11:24:57 PM
Yeah I cannot get behind a single tier north.

Make it a large lower tier, with corners, so it dwarfs the away end and improves atmosphere further.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 04, 2020, 12:28:27 AM
I have got a small Rennie Macintosh 'Petunia Walberswick 1914' that would look nice in the programme sales kiosk in The Holte.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Bad English on August 04, 2020, 12:47:35 AM
I have got a small Rennie Macintosh 'Petunia Walberswick 1914' that would look nice in the programme sales kiosk in The Holte.
I've think these 'Côtes du Roussillon 'Charles Rennie Mackintosh (http://penninewineandcheese.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=288)' - Lafage would be nice from the bar at half time.


Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: ldavfc4eva on August 04, 2020, 07:04:02 AM
Off to Helensburgh at the end of the month, home of Mackintosh and the Hill House is still there which he designed and built

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_House,_Helensburgh
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 04, 2020, 08:49:55 AM
Yeah I cannot get behind a single tier north.

Make it a large lower tier, with corners, so it dwarfs the away end and improves atmosphere further.
Although the idea of a single "wall" really appeals to me it would have to be at the Holte End of the ground so that won't be happening. The uniqueness of Villa Park is our four different stand design, which really shouldn't work but it does, and the continuous curve that joins 3 of the four stands. I'd be all for keeping the bottom section of the North intact then build a much larger and wider, upper section to match the height of the Trinity. With of course proper concourses and state of the art facilities. Executive boxes would be located at the rear or even between the new North and the Trinity.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: purpletrousers on August 04, 2020, 09:40:14 AM
I think I’ve solved it. The Aston Villa tea rooms. My mum can hang out there while me & Dad go to the match. The current crest (and it’s microsoft Art Deco font) can hang out there while we have something sensible in the pitch.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Villan82 on August 04, 2020, 12:25:53 PM
Please demolish the North Stand, it is such an eyesore. It's not even a capacity issue, it's just a dreadful stand and the facilities are shocking - especially for women.

Would like to see something a bit like the Trinity replace it - large middle tier that almost feels like a massive lower tier and an overall feeling of something bright and airy. Use the space at that end to build better match-day facilities such as a museum and nice restaurants.

Thirty years ago, and for the 70 years to that point, Villa Park was an elite stadium. If we don't address these issues we will fall further behind.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 04, 2020, 02:17:12 PM
I struggle with the idea of trying to make the North Stand the main home terrace. Surely that has to remain the Holte?

We were sitting in the Shed at Chelsea this year, trying to think of another club that has given up a large chunk of it's main home end for away fans.

I love the North Stand, by the way.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Dave P on August 04, 2020, 02:26:55 PM
Yeah I cannot get behind a single tier north.

Make it a large lower tier, with corners, so it dwarfs the away end and improves atmosphere further.

This and make the upper tier the new away end.  Villa fans all around the ground then.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 04, 2020, 08:07:00 PM
I'm not a fan of giving the away fans the best view in the ground. Plenty of Upper Tier fans have been season ticket holders for decades and don't deserve to be thrown out. I don't want away fans behind the goal shouting for penalties, anyway. Leave them where they are but develop it so they can actually get a drink in the concourse. Put man traps in front of the away end when we play Man U.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: algy on August 04, 2020, 08:33:42 PM
Had a season ticket in the North Stand Upper for about 8 seasons, and it's still usually where I sit now I'm reduced to occasionally visits. The proximity to Wotton railway station is a factor, but I find out the best value seat in the house - great view and usually only a few quid more than the cheapest seats. Also think, whilst it's pig ugly, it has a certain uniqueness to it that I quite like.

I slightly fall on the side of keeping it right now, but when it is replaced it needs to be with a brick-clad giant appropriate for "the stately home of football". No problem at all giving away fans a good view, they pays their money line the rest of us. We need to show them how poxy & smalltime their own grounds are.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 04, 2020, 08:36:54 PM
I'll miss it when/if it goes, but it is shit. And also groundbreaking at the time it was built, but the outside looks like it belongs in 1976 Gdansk and the inside is only any good if you're as tall as Mazrim.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Des Little on August 04, 2020, 08:45:07 PM
It's an eyesore. I know we did the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig with the cladding last summer, but it still needs levelling. The facilities in the stand are akin to being in Lilliput, and let’s remember that it is the first impression of Villa Park for a great many people visiting for the first time, and it’s not a great one.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Pat Mustard on August 04, 2020, 09:41:33 PM
I would hope that any plan to demolish the North Stand would include rebuilding Witton Lane as well. At least we can say the North was state of the art when it was built - the Witton was done on the cheap and it has always shown. The concourses are cramped and it disrupts sight lines from parts of the lower Holte, despite the fact that there is a tonne of unused space at the front of the stand.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 05, 2020, 12:50:36 AM
Concourse in Upper North is a complete nightmare when it's a sell out which has been usual in last 18 months.

No idea how it's going to work when fans are allowed back in grounds again.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: ez on August 07, 2020, 10:45:08 PM
Concourse in Upper North is a complete nightmare when it's a sell out which has been usual in last 18 months.

No idea how it's going to work when fans are allowed back in grounds again.
The lower north isn't good either. The view is awful. It's a terrace with seats on it. The slope of it was never improved. It's understandable that so many stand up in there.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: robbo1874 on August 11, 2020, 02:36:03 AM
Timing- wise it makes sense to do it now, but I think the risk of building a new stand when there’s no visibility of when football is coming back and what form it will Take, is probably too high. You could end up with socially distanced impacted crowds like 2 empty seats either side of a supporter, which is essentially 20% or less of capacity. Why would you re-develop a stand now without knowing if something like that is going to happen?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: WilliamStanding on August 11, 2020, 08:20:01 AM
Why spend a penny  on a new stand that you may never have full capacity of again - no vaccine no full stadiums.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 11, 2020, 08:34:59 AM
To create work?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: WilliamStanding on August 11, 2020, 08:38:31 AM
Same principal applies though- Villa aren’t a job centre - if there’s no vaccine there will never be more than half full stadiums so clubs won’t spend a penny on any part of increasing capacity, ever.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 11, 2020, 09:07:32 AM
I did not suggest Villa should pay.  When I was still teaching architecture I used the buildings produced in Fascist Europe of the 1930s funded publicly to create work as excellent architecture created for the right reasons by the wrong people.  Not that I suggest Aston Villa are the wrong people to be subsidized by taxpayers' money.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Mister E on August 11, 2020, 03:03:47 PM
Same principal applies though- Villa aren’t a job centre - if there’s no vaccine there will never be more than half full stadiums so clubs won’t spend a penny on any part of increasing capacity, ever.
If there's no vaccine, we'll end up with herd immunity - until the next killer-virus - and so we will see the return of full stadia at some point in the next 12-15 months (bout as a long as it'll take to design and build a new stand, in fact). My guess is that when grounds are open for business, there will be a big uplift in people wanting to go to real football matches after the sterility of the screened version.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 11, 2020, 03:07:38 PM
Be it for safe physical use two seasons or ten seasons from now, the North Stand needs demolished and rebuilt. Has done for years and years. Putting it off any further is foolish - as others have said, there'll never be a better opportunity to get the work started safely and without any (additional) loss in attendance revenue that we're not already incurring.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: KevinGage on August 11, 2020, 03:10:50 PM
I honestly wouldn't bank on it.

Even those will want to go will have second thoughts if they have elderly/vulnerable relatives or work in the public sector etc.

And there will be plenty who have got into a nice routine of watching it at home/ in the boozer for a fraction of the cost. Or they've have found alternative hobbies for Sat/ Sun that don't include Villa booting them in the nuts continuously.  Garden centres with the misses, and the like. Takes allsorts.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ads on August 11, 2020, 03:14:02 PM
I think the opposite. Given half a chance, there would he 42,000 on the gate for a game this weekend.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: rob_bridge on August 11, 2020, 03:36:28 PM
If Villa stay in the top league after 20/21 and a vaccine is available in the next 12months or so then full grounds will be commonplace including Villa Park
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: gpbarr on August 11, 2020, 03:49:51 PM
Delayed by at least 12 months I would have thought - just far too much uncertainty around Covid, economic conditions, football finances, and our stability in PL.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Pat Mustard on August 11, 2020, 04:08:08 PM
I honestly wouldn't bank on it.

Even those will want to go will have second thoughts if they have elderly/vulnerable relatives or work in the public sector etc.

And there will be plenty who have got into a nice routine of watching it at home/ in the boozer for a fraction of the cost. Or they've have found alternative hobbies for Sat/ Sun that don't include Villa booting them in the nuts continuously.  Garden centres with the misses, and the like. Takes allsorts.

It will be at least 6 months before there are significant crowds allowed back, my guess by then is there will be a lot of people desperate to go to matches.  Creating a waiting list for season tickets was a smart move by the club, promoting urgency to renew amongst existing season ticket holders as well as encouraging those on the waiting list buy tickets for any matches that become available, not just the supposedly more attractive fixtures.  It;s the first time in my lifetime as a supporter that pretty much every game has been a guaranteed sell-out.

None of this means there will be any quick moves to increase the capacity however.  I'd imagine the club will want to create more demand, get more people onto waiting lists and have them ready to buy before committing to any rebuild, and as I have said before potentially look at a wider scale redevelopment that encompasses Witton Lane as well.  There is also the practicalities of committing to a new stand - I imaging the planning permission we had previously is now lapsed, the designs as they were will be out of date and then we will need to go through a huge amount of consultation.  The reality is we are probably at least 5 years away from any redevelopment, but hopefully when it does happen it will be something worth waiting for.

Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: WilliamStanding on August 11, 2020, 04:49:14 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Mister E on August 11, 2020, 05:34:29 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.
I never believed the Herd theory: I think he was just a little hot-headed rather than stark-staring bonkers.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Villan82 on August 11, 2020, 05:47:50 PM
Be it for safe physical use two seasons or ten seasons from now, the North Stand needs demolished and rebuilt. Has done for years and years. Putting it off any further is foolish - as others have said, there'll never be a better opportunity to get the work started safely and without any (additional) loss in attendance revenue that we're not already incurring.

It needed to be done 10-15 years ago. The facilities as appalling and it is an eyesore.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 11, 2020, 08:39:09 PM
Be it for safe physical use two seasons or ten seasons from now, the North Stand needs demolished and rebuilt. Has done for years and years. Putting it off any further is foolish - as others have said, there'll never be a better opportunity to get the work started safely and without any (additional) loss in attendance revenue that we're not already incurring.

It needed to be done 10-15 years ago. The facilities as appalling and it is an eyesore.
Hear hear. Nothing more to say.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 11, 2020, 10:13:46 PM
Yeah, I think it will be like after World War II, where people will feel desperate to watch sport and we could have record attendances
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: WilliamStanding on August 11, 2020, 10:32:05 PM
There will be no crowds unless a vaccine is produced.

Away fans are years away
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: wince on August 12, 2020, 08:01:23 AM
There will be no crowds unless a vaccine is produced.

Away fans are years away

The pandemic will die down soon. There is 100 years between us and the influenza epidemic. Next couple of years are uncertain but as we learn more about the virus, things will get better.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on August 12, 2020, 12:08:37 PM
I think it is a reasonable working assumption that a vaccine will be available in 12-18 months.

Though for me, the more compelling argument is that the stand is not fit for purpose and whenever it is redeveloped it will reduce capacity for a period, so I see an advantage in at least part of that happening when the stadium cannot accommodate any fans (if that can be organised, i.e. games being put on and some work happening).

For a change, I got tickets for the North Stand Lower last season and access was rubbish and there was no space to escape the weather (it was a foul day).

I'm old school, so whilst I would be delighted to have a pint at half-time, I can cope without having a 'comprehensive food and beverage offer available' but reasonable access to and from my seat and to go for a pee without having to wade through crowds of people seeking shelter or trying for a pint or pie seems a minimum expectation.

I expect a full-house to mean crowded spaces (!) but trying to get the bogs and back felt like a throwback to the 80s.

I think it would be a great opportunity to extend the provision of safe standing and I would welcome that.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Small Rodent on August 12, 2020, 12:23:45 PM
If a new stand can be built before a vaccine, we could make the turnstyles work using the chips that Bill Gates is putting in the vaccine.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 12, 2020, 01:22:28 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.

As long as we are alive? Jesus, talk about sensationalist

I think some of the southern hemisphere countries such as New Zealand who have been filling stadia for months now would disagree with you.

If we manage this correctly, we will get it down to a point where it is possible to fill Villa Park again.

Spreading shite like "Won't happen again ever in our lifetime without a vaccine" just encourages idiots to be laissez-faire about masks and hygiene when they go to Tesco or wherever.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: WilliamStanding on August 12, 2020, 02:28:14 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.

As long as we are alive? Jesus, talk about sensationalist

I think some of the southern hemisphere countries such as New Zealand who have been filling stadia for months now would disagree with you.

If we manage this correctly, we will get it down to a point where it is possible to fill Villa Park again.

Spreading shite like "Won't happen again ever in our lifetime without a vaccine" just encourages idiots to be laissez-faire about masks and hygiene when they go to Tesco or wherever.

It’s merely an opinion-if there’s not a vaccine do you think the government will just say fill your boots and have 42k every other week?

For the record I haven’t worn a mask once and have no intention to either.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 12, 2020, 02:32:41 PM
That is a great surprise.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 12, 2020, 02:33:24 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.

As long as we are alive? Jesus, talk about sensationalist

I think some of the southern hemisphere countries such as New Zealand who have been filling stadia for months now would disagree with you.

If we manage this correctly, we will get it down to a point where it is possible to fill Villa Park again.

Spreading shite like "Won't happen again ever in our lifetime without a vaccine" just encourages idiots to be laissez-faire about masks and hygiene when they go to Tesco or wherever.

It’s merely an opinion-if there’s not a vaccine do you think the government will just say fill your boots and have 42k every other week?

For the record I haven’t worn a mask once and have no intention to either.

Sadly that does not surprise me in the slightest. You strike me as someone who couldn't give a shit whether you spread a potentially deadly virus to other people.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: LeeB on August 12, 2020, 02:35:19 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.

As long as we are alive? Jesus, talk about sensationalist

I think some of the southern hemisphere countries such as New Zealand who have been filling stadia for months now would disagree with you.

If we manage this correctly, we will get it down to a point where it is possible to fill Villa Park again.

Spreading shite like "Won't happen again ever in our lifetime without a vaccine" just encourages idiots to be laissez-faire about masks and hygiene when they go to Tesco or wherever.

It’s merely an opinion-if there’s not a vaccine do you think the government will just say fill your boots and have 42k every other week?

For the record I haven’t worn a mask once and have no intention to either.

Fine, as long as you don't intend to leave the house. Otherwise, congratulations on your selfishness, you seem very proud of it.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Clampy on August 12, 2020, 02:36:04 PM
Ignore him.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 12, 2020, 02:36:32 PM
Ignore him.

Good advice.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: WilliamStanding on August 12, 2020, 02:36:43 PM
I drive, work from home and have food delivered so where should I be wearing one ?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on August 12, 2020, 02:40:12 PM
You failed to mention any of that in the original post!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Chris Smith on August 12, 2020, 02:47:46 PM
I drive, work from home and have food delivered so where should I be wearing one ?

Perhaps over your eyes so that you can’t see a screen to type the nonsense you keep coming out with.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 12, 2020, 02:49:50 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.

As long as we are alive? Jesus, talk about sensationalist

I think some of the southern hemisphere countries such as New Zealand who have been filling stadia for months now would disagree with you.

If we manage this correctly, we will get it down to a point where it is possible to fill Villa Park again.

Spreading shite like "Won't happen again ever in our lifetime without a vaccine" just encourages idiots to be laissez-faire about masks and hygiene when they go to Tesco or wherever.

It’s merely an opinion-if there’s not a vaccine do you think the government will just say fill your boots and have 42k every other week?

For the record I haven’t worn a mask once and have no intention to either.

Think they'll be 20k + in by March next year. Not ideal but better than what we have now.

It's going to be a question of common sense ultimately. My Dad is 70 now has a dodgy nervous system so no chance I'm taking him down to VP again (generally the last decade of watching us has worn him down anyway so he's not that bothered about the Villa nowadays) and I guess it's the same for anyone who used to go with elderly family relatives.

If it's a 42k stadium full of people between 5-40 years old then that dosen't seem too different from mass crowding of beaches or shopping centres given the age range.

And we're still talking of in six months time where hopefully a vaccine and some more effective treatment will be operational. Immunity health passports idea also seems to pop up at various times.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 12, 2020, 02:51:25 PM
I drive, work from home and have food delivered so where should I be wearing one ?
You seem determined to antagonise people with your comments. "Away fans are going to be years away"
"stadiums won't be full again in our lifetime" Then you state you haven't worn a mask and don't intend to wear one. But you leave out the little nugget where you tell people that respond to your provocative comment that you seem to have no interaction with the outside world so it would be pointless! I don't get it. What's your m/o?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: purpletrousers on August 12, 2020, 03:05:45 PM
I drive, work from home and have food delivered so where should I be wearing one ?
Would this help?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

Please don’t bait those of us in the NHS who have worked through this, those of us that have lost colleagues, friends, family, those of us who have friends struggling to recover, (and knowing other posters... those of us that have had it).
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 12, 2020, 03:07:28 PM
I drive, work from home and have food delivered so where should I be wearing one ?
Would this help?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

Please don’t bait those of us in the NHS who have worked through this, those of us that have lost colleagues, friends, family, those of us who have friends struggling to recover, (and knowing other posters... those of us that have had it).

Well said.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: in exile on August 12, 2020, 03:08:39 PM
Ignore him.

Good advice.
The guys a complete tw*t, just scroll on by.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 12, 2020, 03:17:00 PM
A nailed on troll.   Ignore him.  Let him infect the poor bastards who deliver neccessities to his hermit cave.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 12, 2020, 04:01:29 PM
Lets get back on topic.

If and when we have a North Stand redevelopment I suggest we have a park and ride facility. Nobody, from whatever continent, needs to get their car that close.   
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 12, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Lets get back on topic.

If and when we have a North Stand redevelopment I suggest we have a park and ride facility. Nobody, from whatever continent, needs to get their car that close.   
Yeah that's a great idea. The land behind the ground could be put to far better use than as a car park. I'm thinking a hotel/museum/club superstore and something like Box-park outside Wembley which is a brilliant facility which could double up as a live music venue and general money spinner. All that behind a gleaming new North stand would be fantastic.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ad@m on August 12, 2020, 04:57:03 PM
Lets get back on topic.

If and when we have a North Stand redevelopment I suggest we have a park and ride facility. Nobody, from whatever continent, needs to get their car that close.   

Nice idea in principle but if people have paid whatever silly price hospitality costs at the Villa they're going to expect a parking space.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: oldhill_avfc on August 12, 2020, 05:27:51 PM
You dont get a parking space when you £250 per ticket to sit in the hospitality area at the new Tottenham Stadium.....

The boxes possibly have some spaces in the underground car park though .... so why not underground parking - with space above for bars etc?

Same for the holte end...

In similar vein I think are lots of wasted opportunities to use the park, Aston Hall and street spaces in a more innovative and entrepreneurial way.
 
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 12, 2020, 06:35:58 PM
Lets get back on topic.

If and when we have a North Stand redevelopment I suggest we have a park and ride facility. Nobody, from whatever continent, needs to get their car that close.   

Nice idea in principle but if people have paid whatever silly price hospitality costs at the Villa they're going to expect a parking space.
Not a problem. The toffs can have executuve transport to the ground. They can use any old vehicle to transport the hoi polloi.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: CT on August 12, 2020, 06:42:24 PM
Lets get back on topic.

If and when we have a North Stand redevelopment I suggest we have a park and ride facility. Nobody, from whatever continent, needs to get their car that close.   
Yeah that's a great idea. The land behind the ground could be put to far better use than as a car park. I'm thinking a hotel/museum/club superstore and something like Box-park outside Wembley which is a brilliant facility which could double up as a live music venue and general money spinner. All that behind a gleaming new North stand would be fantastic.

We did the VP tour in 2015 and the guy who took us around said the museum would happen as part of the new North Stand. He also said they’ve got most, if not all of the old AV floodlights too.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 12, 2020, 09:43:04 PM
You dont get a parking space when you £250 per ticket to sit in the hospitality area at the new Tottenham Stadium.....

The boxes possibly have some spaces in the underground car park though .... so why not underground parking - with space above for bars etc?

Same for the holte end...

In similar vein I think are lots of wasted opportunities to use the park, Aston Hall and street spaces in a more innovative and entrepreneurial way.
 

I’m a quantity surveyor (= I know fuck all and will get the budget wrong) but Can I add my random thoughts:

1. A basement parking space might cost you £20k to build, surface parking £5K and a multi-storey £15k.  Putting parking underground is not the answer when land is only under real demand every other week, 9 months a year and the cost to maintain is X times more.

2. Generally I think people under-estimate how long it takes design/get permission/and build something.  I’d guess two years minimum from a standing start and you’d get a shed barely fit for purpose.  So knocking down the stand is not on the critical path of the whole development unless an approved design exists.

3. Now is a great time to buy work as contractors will be looking to fill their order book due to the wider economic uncertainty and therefore reduce their margins.  But we need a design first...

Condescending message over.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Louzie0 on August 12, 2020, 09:51:36 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.
I never believed the Herd theory: I think he was just a little hot-headed rather than stark-staring bonkers.

Herd was a player I could support and whom we ditched too early.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 12, 2020, 10:00:16 PM
I drive, work from home and have food delivered so where should I be wearing one ?
Would this help?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

Please don’t bait those of us in the NHS who have worked through this, those of us that have lost colleagues, friends, family, those of us who have friends struggling to recover, (and knowing other posters... those of us that have had it).

*Applause.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 13, 2020, 07:23:32 AM
Dante.  Thank you for the QS analysis.  We prepared a plan for the North Stand improvement in the 1980s.  I was responsible for the feasibility study for the practice for whom I worked.  It was not proceeded with by our client because they demanded better access from the M6.  The North Stand is a prime site with very serious access problems I concluded.  I do not think anything has changed.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: London Villan on August 13, 2020, 08:47:08 AM
I know there were designs drawn up by Lerner in 2014 because we printed the document. Two options, 48k and 52k seats.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: AV82EC on August 13, 2020, 08:48:36 AM
Didn’t Tony shit shoes have some done as well?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 13, 2020, 08:51:25 AM
It is pretty difficult to get planning permission for building plans drawn up in emoji.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 13, 2020, 08:56:12 AM
It is pretty difficult to get planning permission for building plans drawn up in emoji.

Contractor: And what's your overall budget for this, Dr Xia?

Tony: ☮️ x ((1−(n2)2)=n.(1−n2).(1+n2)=n.(1−n).(1+n).(1+n2)) = (🍆ⁿ + 🏥)/7
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 13, 2020, 09:03:41 AM
Plus or minus 20%
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: London Villan on August 13, 2020, 10:40:04 AM
If someone lets me know how I can post the plans here.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Risso on August 13, 2020, 11:09:14 AM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.
I never believed the Herd theory: I think he was just a little hot-headed rather than stark-staring bonkers.

Herd was a player I could support and whom we ditched too early.


Blimey Lou, have you seen who he played for after leaving us?  I don't think he's played more than 50 games in total in the last 5 years in a succession of poor lower league and foreign teams, and was last seen in the Bangladeshi Premier League.  Not a great miss by any stretch of the imagination.



Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 13, 2020, 11:26:47 AM
I know there were designs drawn up by Lerner in 2014 because we printed the document. Two options, 48k and 52k seats.
I think 52k involved filling in the corners. I'd rather keep the 4 stand design (well sort of) with a continuous section at lower level running right round the ground. The angle of seating where the DE meets the Holte would have to be addressed though to achieve this. HDE at his penny pinching best left the ground with that particular legacy. It plays havoc  with my OCD every time I look at it.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: London Villan on August 13, 2020, 11:58:55 AM
It was just the Trinity and North Stand corner. The Holte and Witton lane remained separate.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 13, 2020, 12:25:16 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

If there’s never a vaccine there really won’t be full stadiums as long as we are alive.

Sad times.
I never believed the Herd theory: I think he was just a little hot-headed rather than stark-staring bonkers.

Herd was a player I could support and whom we ditched too early.


Blimey Lou, have you seen who he played for after leaving us?  I don't think he's played more than 50 games in total in the last 5 years in a succession of poor lower league and foreign teams, and was last seen in the Bangladeshi Premier League.  Not a great miss by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm going to be really angry with you in five years time when we get knocked out of the World Club Cup by Chittagong Tigers.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Gareth on August 13, 2020, 12:56:51 PM
If we are making cases for redeveloping stands can I also make one for the Witton Lane Stand?  Not because of the name on it....tho would be happy to see it changed but because the facilities in that stand are crap also, the view is great but the concourse (certainly upstairs where I sit) is way way too small....I have absolutely no wish to indulge at the moment in the half time crush that is every game for substandard catering and toilet facilities
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: exigo on August 13, 2020, 12:58:12 PM
I know there were designs drawn up by Lerner in 2014 because we printed the document. Two options, 48k and 52k seats.

That's one hell of a North Stand. Forget the wall, that's up there with the original Rinder plans.

(https://i.ibb.co/VvSsg35/villa-650x442.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VvSsg35)
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 13, 2020, 01:07:51 PM
I know there were designs drawn up by Lerner in 2014 because we printed the document. Two options, 48k and 52k seats.

That's one hell of a North Stand. Forget the wall, that's up there with the original Rinder plans.

(https://i.ibb.co/VvSsg35/villa-650x442.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VvSsg35)

What always strikes me about that draught when juxtaposed with what actually got built is the blandness of the exterior of the Trinity!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 13, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
We should have an Unspawny Villa Bastards thread, to complain about World War I stopping us from building the biggest stand in Europe
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 13, 2020, 01:34:29 PM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Louzie0 on August 13, 2020, 01:40:31 PM
Not sure about the herd theory.

I never believed the Herd theory: I think he was just a little hot-headed rather than stark-staring bonkers.

Herd was a player I could support and whom we ditched too early.


Blimey Lou, have you seen who he played for after leaving us?  I don't think he's played more than 50 games in total in the last 5 years in a succession of poor lower league and foreign teams, and was last seen in the Bangladeshi Premier League.  Not a great miss by any stretch of the imagination.

It wasn’t entirely serious as a comment, Risso, given the setup from Mister E!

I did like his attitude of getting stuck in and trying to pass out of danger when I saw him play for us. Sad that from your description he seems to have lost his self belief / edge / way since leaving Villa. 

Edit: oops, I’ve added to the potential hoodoo from what CD says!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 13, 2020, 01:45:55 PM
Wasn't  there some sad back story behind Herd leaving us?  Apologies if I remember inaccurately.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: London Villan on August 13, 2020, 02:54:31 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/bF5788V/57-E7-BA56-7-AD4-459-C-A08-B-31-E72-FBD1-EB7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bF5788V)

(https://i.ibb.co/dM9XS1Z/2-FB8-A9-FE-E014-41-A1-8-D71-FB2-A363-BD182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dM9XS1Z)

(https://i.ibb.co/7vgpHfY/29-C3-E84-E-6060-4-B00-AF69-E13-E17137627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7vgpHfY)

(https://i.ibb.co/4jrt7YQ/38-E0-EDCF-09-B3-47-CC-B85-F-823-DA8-B538-E3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4jrt7YQ)
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ads on August 13, 2020, 02:55:59 PM
Are they the old plans?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: London Villan on August 13, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
Yep from 2014.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Villan82 on August 13, 2020, 03:05:37 PM
They look similar to the plans from 2000 when the new Trinity was presented with a new North Stand?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 13, 2020, 05:23:14 PM
What would the capacity have been if they were built?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 13, 2020, 05:39:08 PM
It was just the Trinity and North Stand corner. The Holte and Witton lane remained separate.
Yes I know and that could have been addressed when the Witton lane and Holte end were rebuilt under Ellis's watch.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: London Villan on August 13, 2020, 06:22:37 PM
What would the capacity have been if they were built?

About 52k was the bigger option.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 13, 2020, 06:27:32 PM
Ta.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: KevinGage on August 13, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
Shows how much of a philistine Herbert was.

We had a stand as majestic as the Trinity, but he was swayed by the new builds at Sunderland and Boro.

I always thought those designs were poxy even back then.  Boro I could understand, as Ayresome Park didn't have much going for it. But Roker Park was a famous old venue.  If they genuinely couldn't redevelop on that site and incorporate some of the old features, the new build should at least have had some nod to their past.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: robbo1874 on August 14, 2020, 05:18:40 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/bF5788V/57-E7-BA56-7-AD4-459-C-A08-B-31-E72-FBD1-EB7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bF5788V)

(https://i.ibb.co/dM9XS1Z/2-FB8-A9-FE-E014-41-A1-8-D71-FB2-A363-BD182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dM9XS1Z)

(https://i.ibb.co/7vgpHfY/29-C3-E84-E-6060-4-B00-AF69-E13-E17137627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7vgpHfY)

(https://i.ibb.co/4jrt7YQ/38-E0-EDCF-09-B3-47-CC-B85-F-823-DA8-B538-E3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4jrt7YQ)

ive never seen these plans before. They look pretty good. The plans I saw I think were from more recently. Or maybe just didn’t include the facade. I’d be happy if we built this and it looked like it does in the renders.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ads on August 14, 2020, 07:32:29 AM
Seems poorly designed near the Witton, as you will have a lot of restricted view. It wouls need to curve round a bit more.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on August 14, 2020, 08:11:46 AM
Interesting pictures. Reminds me of Newcastle which isn’t necessarily a bad thing as St James’ is impressive.

For me, the priory should be doing the North Stand and DE stand at the same time and possibly join those two stands instead. They’re both no longer fit for purpose (concourse and facilities wise at least) so a bit of joined up thinking would be better than doing one stand, then think of doing the next one 5-10 years later.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: algy on August 14, 2020, 08:12:55 AM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.
It was Cowdenbeath ... they'd have been the Barcelona of Fife had it not been for Hitler and his goons.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 14, 2020, 08:53:56 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/bF5788V/57-E7-BA56-7-AD4-459-C-A08-B-31-E72-FBD1-EB7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bF5788V)

(https://i.ibb.co/dM9XS1Z/2-FB8-A9-FE-E014-41-A1-8-D71-FB2-A363-BD182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dM9XS1Z)

(https://i.ibb.co/7vgpHfY/29-C3-E84-E-6060-4-B00-AF69-E13-E17137627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7vgpHfY)

(https://i.ibb.co/4jrt7YQ/38-E0-EDCF-09-B3-47-CC-B85-F-823-DA8-B538-E3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4jrt7YQ)

ive never seen these plans before. They look pretty good. The plans I saw I think were from more recently. Or maybe just didn’t include the facade. I’d be happy if we built this and it looked like it does in the renders.
Never seen those before. Not a fan of filling in the corners tbh. And nothing in those plans to sort out the cock up where the Holte joins the DE. It really boils my piss that does. I may have mentioned it before.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: LeeB on August 14, 2020, 08:57:12 AM
Interesting pictures. Reminds me of Newcastle which isn’t necessarily a bad thing as St James’ is impressive.

For me, the priory should be doing the North Stand and DE stand at the same time and possibly join those two stands instead. They’re both no longer fit for purpose (concourse and facilities wise at least) so a bit of joined up thinking would be better than doing one stand, then think of doing the next one 5-10 years later.

I’m not a fan of St James’ Park, it’s too lopsided. It looks like someone’s cut-and-shut it with the Bescot.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Des Little on August 14, 2020, 09:01:37 AM
The only wrap around should take place at lower tier/section of each stand. 
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 14, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
Interesting pictures. Reminds me of Newcastle which isn’t necessarily a bad thing as St James’ is impressive.

For me, the priory should be doing the North Stand and DE stand at the same time and possibly join those two stands instead. They’re both no longer fit for purpose (concourse and facilities wise at least) so a bit of joined up thinking would be better than doing one stand, then think of doing the next one 5-10 years later.

I’m not a fan of St James’ Park, it’s too lopsided. It looks like someone’s cut-and-shut it with the Bescot.
This made me laugh.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 14, 2020, 09:45:25 AM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.

Didn’t Port Vale plan to build a 100,000 “Wembley of the North” Stadium after the war?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 14, 2020, 09:55:31 AM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.

Didn’t Port Vale plan to build a 100,000 “Wembley of the North” Stadium after the war?
I planned to be an astronaut and marry Olivia Newton John when I was a kid.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Des Little on August 14, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
It's not too late!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Border villan on August 14, 2020, 10:29:43 AM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.

Didn’t Port Vale plan to build a 100,000 “Wembley of the North” Stadium after the war?
I planned to be an astronaut and marry Olivia Newton John when I was a kid.
You were too young as a kid to marry her.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Tayls_7 on August 14, 2020, 11:44:20 AM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.

Didn’t Port Vale plan to build a 100,000 “Wembley of the North” Stadium after the war?
I planned to be an astronaut and marry Olivia Newton John when I was a kid.
You were too young as a kid to marry her.

A hand shandy?

(I'll get my coat  :o)
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: eamonn on August 14, 2020, 11:51:33 AM
...from Sandy.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 14, 2020, 12:04:06 PM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.

Didn’t Port Vale plan to build a 100,000 “Wembley of the North” Stadium after the war?
I planned to be an astronaut and marry Olivia Newton John when I was a kid.
You were too young as a kid to marry her.
Didn't stop me fantasizing
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Des Little on August 14, 2020, 12:30:49 PM
Sandy?  Painful.  Still, if that's your thing
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 14, 2020, 01:29:13 PM
Lets get back on topic talking about Cowdenbeath.

Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 14, 2020, 01:38:13 PM
Lets get back on topic talking about Cowdenbeath.

Can never get enough of the Blue Brazil.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Mister E on August 14, 2020, 01:41:57 PM
Great script / voiceover / great sound track  ... great story.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 14, 2020, 01:47:54 PM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.

Didn’t Port Vale plan to build a 100,000 “Wembley of the North” Stadium after the war?
I planned to be an astronaut and marry Olivia Newton John when I was a kid.

My cousin dated her niece a couple of years back. I'll ask him to put a word in for you.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on August 14, 2020, 03:30:28 PM
Everytime I see this thread, I can’t help but think of the earlier post where someone mentioned it was the difficult second album from “African Car Reverser”

I’m still laughing now.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Risso on August 14, 2020, 03:33:07 PM
My cousin dated her niece a couple of years back.

You should be on stripeyfilth.com with admissions like that.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Louzie0 on August 14, 2020, 05:28:31 PM
Wasn't  there some sad back story behind Herd leaving us?  Apologies if I remember inaccurately.

He had bad luck with the timing and severity of a knee injury, twice.
This is an interesting interview and he reflects on how much he enjoyed his time at Villa.


https://www.athletesvoice.com.au/chris-herd-heart-break-and-redemption/


He’s currently playing at Sheik Russel KC who are 8th/13 in the Bangladesh Premier League, so CD’s prediction could come true. Better hurry up!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Mister E on August 14, 2020, 05:54:00 PM
Wasn't  there some sad back story behind Herd leaving us?  Apologies if I remember inaccurately.

He had bad luck with the timing and severity of a knee injury, twice.
This is an interesting interview and he reflects on how much he enjoyed his time at Villa.


https://www.athletesvoice.com.au/chris-herd-heart-break-and-redemption/


He’s currently playing at Sheik Russel KC who are 8th/13 in the Bangladesh Premier League, so CD’s prediction could come true. Better hurry up!
Chris Herd could have been a very good player - with us at the wrong time with the wrong manager(s); a good tough-tackling MF who covered well when the FB went marauding.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 14, 2020, 05:56:41 PM
I'm some someone like Cowdenbeath had planning permission to expand to 150,000 until World War Two intervened. I'm sure that would have been full every game.

Didn’t Port Vale plan to build a 100,000 “Wembley of the North” Stadium after the war?

I was pitchside there once, and the scale of the tunnel and running track showed what they were aiming for.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 14, 2020, 06:08:42 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/6XGn6Z8/port-vale-vale-park-bycars-road-end-1-bw-september-1968-legendary-football-grounds.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6XGn6Z8)

 (https://poetandpoem.com/Langston-Hughes/Democracy-2)
Vale Park record crowd is nearly 50,000 for a cup game with us in 1960.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: London Villan on August 14, 2020, 06:45:11 PM
The tunnel was the only thing finished at Vale Park.. it had the space for a massive ground but not really the support for a Wembley of the Midlands.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ads on August 14, 2020, 08:22:00 PM
Wasn't the Valley absolutely huge at one point?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: algy on August 14, 2020, 08:49:46 PM
Wasn't the Valley absolutely huge at one point?
Yeah, record attendance was a little over 75,000 (against us in the FA Cup, 1938)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvfDp7hIQAEjymZ.jpg:large)
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 14, 2020, 09:58:23 PM
Wasn't the Valley absolutely huge at one point?

When I was growing up (late 70s) I think the capacity was listed as 66,000.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: DB on August 14, 2020, 10:17:03 PM
Not a club ground but Hampden was huge, I have a pic somewhere of and Sco v Eng match around the end of the war, ridiculous.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: DB on August 14, 2020, 10:17:37 PM
Actually, it is a club ground. Queen’s Park .
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ads on August 14, 2020, 10:22:11 PM
There's a Scottish Park that used to be a ground too I think.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 14, 2020, 10:24:42 PM
I did a quiz pre-Taylor Report and one question was the twenty biggest grounds in the league. There were some really unusual ones - places like Huddersfield and Cardiff.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 14, 2020, 10:31:20 PM
There's a Scottish Park that used to be a ground too I think.

Cathkin Park, used to be home to Third Lanark.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 14, 2020, 10:34:09 PM
Berwick and Brechin. One had a hedge behnd one ground and the other's capacity was bigger than the town's population. I can't remember which was which. 
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: rougegorge on August 14, 2020, 10:49:00 PM
Berwick and Brechin. One had a hedge behnd one ground and the other's capacity was bigger than the town's population. I can't remember which was which.
Yes, Brechin City is the one that had the hedge.

Berwick got a record crowd in the 60s when they beat Rangers, and it exceeded the town's population. Apparently, they officially opened Shielfield Park against us in 1955 when our reserves prevailed 3-1.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Pat McMahon on August 15, 2020, 12:45:36 AM
Not a club ground but Hampden was huge, I have a pic somewhere of and Sco v Eng match around the end of the war, ridiculous.

My dad and granddad loved Celtic and I recall that the European cup semi v Celtic in 1970 was switched to Hampson as Parkhead was too small. The crowd was over 125k!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 15, 2020, 12:54:32 AM
Not a club ground but Hampden was huge, I have a pic somewhere of and Sco v Eng match around the end of the war, ridiculous.

My dad and granddad loved Celtic and I recall that the European cup semi v Celtic in 1970 was switched to Hampson as Parkhead was too small. The crowd was over 125k!

There's an old bloke I work with (a couple on here met him at the League Cup final) who was at that game, plus a Scotland v England with a crowd of about 130,000, the 1962 SFA Cup final in front of 129,000 and the Old Firm game the day of the Ibrox disaster. His father had been at the 1960 European Cup final. That's some history in one city. 
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: algy on August 15, 2020, 07:03:21 AM
There's a Scottish Park that used to be a ground too I think.

Cathkin Park, used to be home to Third Lanark.
More than that, the former national stadium whilst Queens Park played there (up until 1903). It's about 5 minutes walk from Hampden Park, and worth a visit if you're there anyway. Had a capacity of 50000 in it's day.

(https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article7075064.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/JS78998438.jpg)

(http://www.stadiapostcards.com/cathkin.JPG)

There's been 3 Hampden Parks. The current one, before that it was what's now Cathkin Park, and before that it was at the bowls club by the railway outside Cathkin Park - so you can visit all 3 in a oner.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: algy on August 15, 2020, 07:25:30 AM
(https://i.redd.it/49ppa8km8dl31.jpg)
The original Hampden Park, 1873-1883, as it looks now
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 15, 2020, 08:41:31 AM
There's also Little Hampden next to Hampden Park.

Have to say that Hampden Park is a bit of a soulless bowl now and strange for Queen's Park games, when they have about 300 fans there
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: The Edge on August 15, 2020, 10:15:37 AM
Great script / voiceover / great sound track  ... great story.
Thanks but no thanks. I don't think she would look the same now in those tight black satin trousers. Hmmmmm
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 15, 2020, 11:05:19 AM
The three biggest grounds in Europe (maybe the world) at one point were all in Glasgow.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: brian green on August 15, 2020, 11:32:33 AM
At a tangent, for which I apologise but Epsom Downs, a natural amphitheatre with buildings, regularly had over half a million spectators for the Derby.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 15, 2020, 11:35:15 AM
The three biggest grounds in Europe (maybe the world) at one point were all in Glasgow.

The Maracana overtook Hampden as the largest stadium in the world in 1950.

https://www.sambafoot.com/en/news/19321_maracana__the_largest_stadium_of_the_world.html


(https://i.ibb.co/pwXXh78/Highest-world-cup-attendance.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pwXXh78)


Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: eamonn on August 15, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
There's also Little Hampden next to Hampden Park.

Have to say that Hampden Park is a bit of a soulless bowl now and strange for Queen's Park games, when they have about 300 fans there

Would they not be better off playing at Little Hampden ?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 15, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
There's also Little Hampden next to Hampden Park.

Have to say that Hampden Park is a bit of a soulless bowl now and strange for Queen's Park games, when they have about 300 fans there

Would they not be better off playing at Little Hampden ?

Lesser Hampden. There are plans to make it suitable for the Scottish League as Queen's Park's lease on Hampden has run out and the SFA now own it. 
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 15, 2020, 12:38:10 PM
Hampden Park derives its name from an Englishman John Hampden.

Quote
John Hampden (c. June 1595 – 24 June 1643) was an English landowner and politician whose opposition to arbitrary taxes imposed by Charles I made him a national figure. An ally of Parliamentary leader John Pym, and cousin to Oliver Cromwell, he was one of the Five Members whose attempted arrest in January 1642 sparked the First English Civil War.

After war began in August 1642, Hampden raised an infantry regiment, and died of wounds received at the Battle of Chalgrove Field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hampden




Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: algy on August 15, 2020, 02:17:00 PM
There's also Little Hampden next to Hampden Park.

Have to say that Hampden Park is a bit of a soulless bowl now and strange for Queen's Park games, when they have about 300 fans there

Would they not be better off playing at Little Hampden ?

Lesser Hampden. There are plans to make it suitable for the Scottish League as Queen's Park's lease on Hampden has run out and the SFA now own it.
They were planning on moving this coming season - I'd plans on going up in April to watch the last home game there, but it wasn't to be. The atmosphere there was shocking, mind - even when they played Rangers in the league it was atrocious.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Pat McMahon on August 15, 2020, 11:07:48 PM
The three biggest grounds in Europe (maybe the world) at one point were all in Glasgow.

The Maracana overtook Hampden as the largest stadium in the world in 1950.

https://www.sambafoot.com/en/news/19321_maracana__the_largest_stadium_of_the_world.html


(https://i.ibb.co/pwXXh78/Highest-world-cup-attendance.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pwXXh78)



These are all brilliant facts, ones I would have known when I was a kid
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: LeeB on August 15, 2020, 11:15:41 PM
Hampdens official capacity was 185,000, but the Scottish FA were only allowed to sell 150,000.

Empty seats m'lord.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 15, 2020, 11:43:22 PM
Hampden used to look fantastic, it's shit now.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Drummond on August 16, 2020, 12:59:27 AM
I'm surprised the Scottish FA have never come an agreement with the Scottish RFU about a groundshare at Murrayfield.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Simon Page on August 16, 2020, 01:08:08 AM
Hampden used to look fantastic, it's shit now.

Except in that small second tier on the south side. The sightline is spectacular, the ground looks great and, when the fitbah gets cloggy, the view over Glasgow to the hills in the north is unsurpassed. The only stadium other than Villa Park to give me goose bumps.

Excuse the love in, I've been missing Scotland a lot lately. Still easily the best country in the world. No need for a discussion.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 16, 2020, 09:06:25 AM
Simon, will this help? :)

Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Simon Page on August 17, 2020, 01:42:17 AM
There's a Simpsons episode where they train to fight Nelson Muntz. They do the chanting while marching stuff US soldiers apparently do and have a couplet that goes:

We are happy, we are merry,
We've got a rhyming dictionary.

That's the template for Scottish lyrics. The only thing wrong with Scotland is the music (about half The Proclaimers' canon excepted). I've always thought they only have so many visitor centres so they can play their diddly doo at unsuspecting foreigners.

Apart from that, best country in the world.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 17, 2020, 05:44:51 AM
Have they knocked it down yet?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: eamonn on August 17, 2020, 08:29:35 AM
Cocteau Twins were great. Intelligible lyrics not required.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: robbo1874 on August 18, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
Bit harsh to say Scottish music’s shit. Primal Scream, Teenage Fanclub. Quite liked Deacon Blue as a kid and like Rod the Mod more as I get older. I do hate the Proclaimers though. And Bagpipes.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 18, 2020, 01:25:33 PM
Rod the Mod

Rod Stewart is from the south of Scotland. Or North London, to be precise
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: DB on August 18, 2020, 01:34:33 PM
Still like a bit of Big Country. But yeah, Scotland has had some decent bands but has punched under weight.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 18, 2020, 01:35:26 PM
A quick intervention in support of the Jesus & Mary Chain, Belle & Sebastin, Mogwai and bits of Franz Ferdinand!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Risso on August 18, 2020, 01:43:00 PM
A quick intervention in support of the Jesus & Mary Chain, Belle & Sebastin, Mogwai and bits of Franz Ferdinand!

Teenage Fanclub, Orange Juice, Aztec Camera, Deacon Blue, The Associates, The Beta Band, Primal Scream...
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: LeeB on August 18, 2020, 01:47:47 PM
Wet Wet Wet.....
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 18, 2020, 01:51:05 PM
Wet Wet Wet.....

I fundamentally disagree with LeeB
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ian. on August 18, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
I like Paolo Nutini, he's very good.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: purpletrousers on August 18, 2020, 01:55:15 PM
Thank you SE and Risso (was thinking of you Risso and our original B&S meeting)
Ok there’s going to be different tastes but that’s one of the most off beam comments I’ve come across in a long time.

Besides, the highlights of my football career were playing against many of said bands in the park, outside chalets & on the beach kickabouts! (b&s, tfc, mogwai - the latter not esp for their lyrics as per OP) as well as winning bands 6-a-sides against them!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 18, 2020, 01:57:57 PM
Oops, wrong thread
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Risso on August 18, 2020, 01:59:20 PM
Thank you SE and Risso (was thinking of you Risso and our original B&S meeting)
Ok there’s going to be different tastes but that’s one of the most off beam comments I’ve come across in a long time.

Besides, the highlights of my football career were playing against many of said bands in the park, outside chalets & on the beach kickabouts! (b&s, tfc, mogwai - the latter not esp for their lyrics as per OP) as well as winning bands 6-a-sides against them!

Teenage Fanclub were pretty physical as I recall, the 1970s Leeds team of the late 90s indie bands.  Very much belied their slightly fey appearances!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: purpletrousers on August 18, 2020, 02:15:04 PM
Thank you SE and Risso (was thinking of you Risso and our original B&S meeting)
Ok there’s going to be different tastes but that’s one of the most off beam comments I’ve come across in a long time.

Besides, the highlights of my football career were playing against many of said bands in the park, outside chalets & on the beach kickabouts! (b&s, tfc, mogwai - the latter not esp for their lyrics as per OP) as well as winning bands 6-a-sides against them!

Teenage Fanclub were pretty physical as I recall, the 1970s Leeds team of the late 90s indie bands.  Very much belied their slightly fey appearances!

Me in goal in the background to Mogwai (Rotterdam 82 long sleeve was my goalie uniform) as a longhair, courtesy of a 20yr old Select magazine. I remember the very very salty NME moaning in print to losing to a bunch of B&S fans as ‘pasty faced vegan geeks’. I did at least become vegan many years ago, so they got some of right.

(https://i.ibb.co/NCxSYDs/C58-AFA91-CEDB-48-D4-A6-EF-ED57-C103-A179.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NCxSYDs)

My main relief from a drunken dawn footy kickabout on the beach the year before was not breaking any of Belle & Sebastian’s hands before they headlined Bowlie!

<probably typed all this before, relying on your disinterest/memory being worse than mine>
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: NeilH on August 18, 2020, 02:16:54 PM
A quick intervention in support of the Jesus & Mary Chain, Belle & Sebastin, Mogwai and bits of Franz Ferdinand!

Teenage Fanclub, Orange Juice, Aztec Camera, Deacon Blue, The Associates, The Beta Band, Primal Scream...

You can add Camera Obscura to that list too and Isobel Campbell.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 18, 2020, 02:48:07 PM
Me in goal in the background to Mogwai (Rotterdam 82 long sleeve was my goalie uniform) as a longhair, courtesy of a 20yr old Select magazine.

What's the black and white A.F.C. shirt? Doesn't ring any bells. Or is it M.F.C. as in Mogwai?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: LeeB on August 18, 2020, 02:53:35 PM
A quick intervention in support of the Jesus & Mary Chain, Belle & Sebastin, Mogwai and bits of Franz Ferdinand!

Teenage Fanclub, Orange Juice, Aztec Camera, Deacon Blue, The Associates, The Beta Band, Primal Scream...

You can add Camera Obscura to that list too and Isobel Campbell.

Never a fan of Deacon Blue, but at the entrance to the service deck underneath the original Mersey Tunnel somebody had painted their name in massive letters and black paint. It had clearly been there sometime without ever being touched, until my sharpie added 'are wank' underneath.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: LeeB on August 18, 2020, 02:58:31 PM
Wet Wet Wet.....

I fundamentally disagree with LeeB

Look angel eyes, you're either with me or against me, capiche?
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Nev on August 18, 2020, 03:05:49 PM
Good afternoon Boys and Girls.

Justly, Skillfully, Magnanimously.....I give you...

....The Sensational Alex Harvey Band.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: eamonn on August 18, 2020, 03:15:26 PM
I like Paolo Nutini, he's very good.

Him and Sharleen Spiteri could have played for Scotland but their Italian blood proved too powerful (and the chance to play alongside Del Piero rather than Gary McAllister).
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Clampy on August 18, 2020, 04:45:22 PM
Good afternoon Boys and Girls.

Justly, Skillfully, Magnanimously.....I give you...

....The Sensational Alex Harvey Band.

I top that with the Bay City Rollers and Biffy Clyro.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Mister E on August 18, 2020, 04:53:00 PM
Good afternoon Boys and Girls.

Justly, Skillfully, Magnanimously.....I give you...

....The Sensational Alex Harvey Band.
They headlined Reading Rock in 1977 ... a vintage year, with Thin Lizzy, Frankie Miller (another Scot), Hawkwind, Graham Parker the Doobie Bros. And many more.
My first big experience of Rock festivals, flying Party 7 cans and mud (the stuff not the band) in huge volume.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 18, 2020, 04:54:52 PM
I've inhaled hashish. I've been on all-weekend binges to Prestatyn to see Wings.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on August 18, 2020, 05:13:05 PM
Good afternoon Boys and Girls.

Justly, Skillfully, Magnanimously.....I give you...

....The Sensational Alex Harvey Band.
I bloody loved The SAHB!
From the first time I saw them at Barbarella's in '72(?), the Town Hall not long after and The Odeon a year or so after that, then Reading....what a cracking line up that was!
Bit of a revival early 2000s with a whole weekend at The Robin in Bilston, with Zal still on lead, Chris Glen on bass and the McKenna cousins doing their bit. Alex's replacement was very good, just not Alex.
Alex Harvey....RIP.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ian. on August 18, 2020, 05:16:30 PM
I like Paolo Nutini, he's very good.

Him and Sharleen Spiteri could have played for Scotland but their Italian blood proved too powerful (and the chance to play alongside Del Piero rather than Gary McAllister).
Ah quite true, not full bloodied Scots. How could I forget Sharleen Spiteri either though.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: purpletrousers on August 18, 2020, 06:24:59 PM
Me in goal in the background to Mogwai (Rotterdam 82 long sleeve was my goalie uniform) as a longhair, courtesy of a 20yr old Select magazine.

What's the black and white A.F.C. shirt? Doesn't ring any bells. Or is it M.F.C. as in Mogwai?

Aye Mogwai had their own shirts (I think just for playing rather than merch - I did have an early t-shirt, but wasn’t so into them by this point).

They also had some rather poor merchandise “Blur are shite” t-shirts, which some wags copied in the same style to say “Mogwai are Slint” which for those in the know, was very valid.

 I do have 2/3 of an apparently very pricey zildjian cymbal of theirs along with part of a megaphone and some keyboard keys from a very drunken early gig where they literally tried to trash everything, right down to pooring pints of Guinness into kicked in amps. Probably need another thread for music memorabilia!
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: IFWaters on August 18, 2020, 06:52:57 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/bF5788V/57-E7-BA56-7-AD4-459-C-A08-B-31-E72-FBD1-EB7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bF5788V)

(https://i.ibb.co/dM9XS1Z/2-FB8-A9-FE-E014-41-A1-8-D71-FB2-A363-BD182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dM9XS1Z)

(https://i.ibb.co/7vgpHfY/29-C3-E84-E-6060-4-B00-AF69-E13-E17137627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7vgpHfY)

(https://i.ibb.co/4jrt7YQ/38-E0-EDCF-09-B3-47-CC-B85-F-823-DA8-B538-E3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4jrt7YQ)

(https://i.ibb.co/bF5788V/57-E7-BA56-7-AD4-459-C-A08-B-31-E72-FBD1-EB7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bF5788V)

(https://i.ibb.co/dM9XS1Z/2-FB8-A9-FE-E014-41-A1-8-D71-FB2-A363-BD182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dM9XS1Z)

(https://i.ibb.co/7vgpHfY/29-C3-E84-E-6060-4-B00-AF69-E13-E17137627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7vgpHfY)

(https://i.ibb.co/4jrt7YQ/38-E0-EDCF-09-B3-47-CC-B85-F-823-DA8-B538-E3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4jrt7YQ)


The first photo is kind of ok. I like the brick finish but a part of me thinks the corner just makes it look like the start of the stadiumification of Villa Park. It looks too much like the big corner of St James Park or a wedge cut out of Old Trafford. No, I want Villa Park to be the greatest FOOTBALL GROUND in the country, which means stands which are seperated, but perhaps with towers in the corner finished with Byzantine domes like Birmingham University.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Risso on August 18, 2020, 06:53:19 PM
Point of order.  The t-shirts said "Blur: are shite".
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: Ian. on August 18, 2020, 07:01:09 PM
I don’t like those images at all, that’s an absolute monstrosity.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 18, 2020, 07:10:34 PM
I don’t like those images at all, that’s an absolute monstrosity.
too TTOD horrible
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: eamonn on August 18, 2020, 07:15:35 PM
Stadium Arcadium...shite too.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: algy on August 18, 2020, 09:08:37 PM
No, I want Villa Park to be the greatest FOOTBALL GROUND in the country, which means stands which are seperated, but perhaps with towers in the corner finished with Byzantine domes like Birmingham University.
Me too. Big brick towers with domes on top. Villa Park's known as the stately home of football and we should absolutely play up to that.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: kipeye on August 19, 2020, 09:38:41 AM
Good afternoon Boys and Girls.

Justly, Skillfully, Magnanimously.....I give you...

....The Sensational Alex Harvey Band.
I bloody loved The SAHB!
From the first time I saw them at Barbarella's in '72(?), the Town Hall not long after and The Odeon a year or so after that, then Reading....what a cracking line up that was!
Bit of a revival early 2000s with a whole weekend at The Robin in Bilston, with Zal still on lead, Chris Glen on bass and the McKenna cousins doing their bit. Alex's replacement was very good, just not Alex.
Alex Harvey....RIP.
Why? Why?Why? Love 'em too.
Title: Re: North Stand Demolition
Post by: kipeye on August 19, 2020, 09:40:18 AM
Thinking about this-would be nice to name the stand after Sabs or Nige...(K -not Fuckwit)
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