Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on June 27, 2020, 02:31:42 PM
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No quality. No tactics. No pace. Little hope. Let’s start again.
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So predictable, so shit. Toothless.
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Fuming. I'd have taken Grealish off.Abject.
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The gap
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Let’s see what drivel is spouted after that.
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I hoped that we would give it a go based on the team selected but that was truly desperate.
One routine save for Rui Patricia in the 90 minutes.
No passion. No desire. No energy.
Pedestrian.
I would let Smith go tonight. We have nothing to lose.
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I said it in the match thread but I hate watching us play. Fucking dreadful and pathetic excuse for a team. Fuck all substance. And somehow got worse since losing Wesley which in itself is remarkable.
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Looks like Dean Is upset with the ref, don’t know why as apart from Luiz we were shit
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Really what is the point in keeping these 3 muppets in charge for the rest of the season?
Squad is nowhere near good enough but I’m sick to death of watching Smith standing there showing no passion whatsoever.
Sack them now.
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Unacceptable, as it is every time. We look like a team who have never met each other. It’s shite from the players, but it’s unforgivable from the manager.
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I was hoping with two up front, we would be loads better and at least a threat.
I was wrong on both
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They have a superb manager and spent their money very well.
We have a manager miles out of his depth at this level and spent our money horrendously.
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No quality, no pace, no ideas, no intelligence.
I have said it before, Smith seems a nice enough bloke but he is just ordinary. Bland,
The team mirrors this.
Liverpool away next.
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Approaching relegation like a juggernaut careering towards the cliff edge.
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The Sound of Silence
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Things are that bad I’d almost be embarrassed if we did somehow manage to stay up.
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I was hoping with two up front, we would be loads better and at least a threat.
I was wrong on both
I personally see noting in Davies at all. Sammata I'm.happy to give a bit more time..
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Absolutely predictable again - the players are abject and I wouldn't lose any sleep if they all left (Grealish is clearly off and just not interested anymore) but the management is truly as bad as anything we have seen in the last decade.
And for those wanting to give him next season to see if he can get us promoted again - please - we need fresh ideas, a new philosophy, someone who has the charisma to build from the bottom up. We are rotten and sadly, back to square one yet again.
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The next thing our owners should do is spend money making sure every single Wolves fan is unable to comment on anything Villa related on the internet.
We were abysmal today. Hate every player. ******
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Wolves didn’t have to do much really, they just did enough. We look like a team that has no belief, ive no idea what our strengths are (do we have any) or what the plan is. We just aren’t good enough for this league.
We run around for 90 minutes but other than that I’ve no idea what the plan is, none whatsoever. If we stay up I’ll be amazed.
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I was hoping with two up front, we would be loads better and at least a threat.
I was wrong on both
Smith neglected to put a single wide player out there for them!
After caving to the pressure to abandon his dreadful 4-3-3.. He literally stuck 3 slow-footed CMs behind the forwards and jack.
Dean Smith out, tonight. I’d rather have Neil Warnock lay into this bunch for the next three weeks than watch this dross and go down without a whimper.
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Absolutely predictable again - the players are abject and I wouldn't lose any sleep if they all left (Grealish is clearly off and just not interested anymore) but the management is truly as bad as anything we have seen in the last decade.
And for those wanting to give him next season to see if he can get us promoted again - please - we need fresh ideas, a new philosophy, someone who has the charisma to build from the bottom up. We are rotten and sadly, back to square one yet again.
Smith won't be here next season.
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Approaching relegation like a juggernaut careering towards the cliff edge.
I'd say that we're approaching relegation like a Frenchman in a country village who has just had a particularly hearty Sunday lunch.
He's half-asleep and is preparing for a couple of hours kip....
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The frustrating thing is that we all know, deep down, that Smith is going nowhere any time soon. I suspect he will go when the remnants of this sub ordinary squad are looking at the prospect of a second relegation. Even then he’ll have his supporters.
For once, we need to invest in a quality manager, whatever the cost.
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Approaching relegation like a juggernaut careering towards the cliff edge.
If only it were that exciting!
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I was watching (I think) an NBC stream and the commentators plotted the narrative arc of this game from the get go. You'd hope that our coaching team could've had such insights. We were never going to get anything, but we didn't look like we wanted to.
I have a horrible feeling that Smith has been reading message boards, given that the line up looked like it had been picked by committee.
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It's a slow death type of season again. Whatever formation or players we put out we're showing every game we're not good enough at this level.
We've had plenty of chancees in last 10 days to at least get out of the bottom 3. In games we need to win we draw and games where draw would be good result we lose.
If we couldn't get out of the bottom 3 with last 4 games I can't really see how we'll do it with the last 6, probably two games at best where you think we might get a draw out of it if we play well.
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Pure McLeish territory. Dismal.
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There was never enough quality without McGinn and clearly he is still recovering from his injury. I didn't think that there was much between the teams. Wolves didn't offer much either. It was all so passionless without the fans
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I am starting to really dislike Smith and the half arsed message his continued occupancy of the hotseat has represented all season.
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Wolves goals for/against record is 45-34
Ours is 36-60.
We have the worst defence in the Pre9m. Clubs above us with fewer goals:
Sheff Utd - 30
Palace - 28
Burnley - 35
Newcastle - 29
Brighton - 34
Watford - 28
West Ham - 35
And even Bournemouth with 29.
Waiting to hear Smith's spin on this exhibition of abject mediocrity.
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Outclassed by a side who didn’t have to be above average to beat us. Never really looked like creating anything in the second half and it just looked so comfortable for them.
I really like Dean Smith and want him to be a success, but he just isn’t getting anything out the players (many of who just aren’t good enough in fairness) and sadly I think it is time for a change if we are to have any chance of staying up.
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We are paying the price for years of poor/shocking managers and piss poor ownership. I really worry that our present owners will see us as a lost cause and take their money elsewhere. As ambitious people, they didn’t shell out to buy a mediocre championship side with a big ground and support. There are some big decisions to be made in the summer regarding the direction of this club, staring with the management and coaching staff.
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I’m just mentally resigned to it all. I hate thats where I have arrived at. I was numb watching the game because I knew just what it would be like. It’s all a bit empty now.
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Absolutely predictable again - the players are abject and I wouldn't lose any sleep if they all left (Grealish is clearly off and just not interested anymore) but the management is truly as bad as anything we have seen in the last decade.
And for those wanting to give him next season to see if he can get us promoted again - please - we need fresh ideas, a new philosophy, someone who has the charisma to build from the bottom up. We are rotten and sadly, back to square one yet again.
Smith won't be here next season.
I'll be severely pissed off if he's here for the next game. Just how more terrible does he have to get before our owners start to give a shit?
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I liked DS for what he did at Brentford, but I think if he cares so much about avfc, he should walk at end of season and become a fan again, not a manager.
It seems to happen to lots of mgrs and players with reputations, the minute they walk through the doors , they lose all confidence, I just don’t know what it is about our great club
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Smith was remonstrating with the 4th official as they walked off the pitch together -- god knows about what, he needs to have a fucking go at himself and some of the charlatans wearing claret and blue out there.
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We're down. The sheer lack of quality or apparent desire is there for all to see. When our captain, and fellow supporter can't even be arsed to break sweat you know something isn't right behind the scenes,
EXTREMELY annoyed with them, players and staff. That's not to say a few players didn't play well, i though Luiz was our MOTM once again but it's not enough. Not enough by a long shot.
Flat as fuck.
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We had a chance to address our misgivings during the break, if anything it looks like every fucker was "furlonged" and just picked up from that Leicester game on the day of the Sheff Utd game.
If anything is damning of the management then I'm afraid it's this.
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The technical ability of every player besides Grealish and Luiz was abysmal today. Heavy touches galore and poorly weighted and directed passes.
When that is added to zero pace, zero urgency, zero movement and zero creativity it is always going to be a losing formula.
I don't think Smith is the man for the job anymore, but which manager could seriously get better out of a group of very poor players at this level?
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Pure McLeish territory. Dismal.
It’s worse than that. Mcleish kept us up and clearly had a game plan, even if it was pretty dull.
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This is the problem when you pick the system around the players rather than the players for a system.
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Wolves and Villa as clubs over the past few years are mirror images of each other. They are quality top to bottom we are dross.
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On the plus side we are not getting thrashed like some are predicting before games but we're creating absolutley nothing and that is what's going to cost us.
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I was glad to see changes as thing needed to change and you can blame players for not turning up when picked but the reality is 4 games in after a 3 month break DS is changing team and formation with every game , we have zero rytham as and we still look like a team who have just got together.
I watched the Brentford game last night and all match the commentators mentioned how the difference in Brentford now is than under Smith is they can defend.In trying to make us better at back Smith has nullified any attacking threat from us.What's worse is if we had played like this in some games earlier in season and picked up draws we would be in a better position , now he has got us losing narrowly or drawing when we need wins.
Lack of fans is a killer though , it allows the better teams to play in empty stadiums and their extra quality shines through..other than Brighton beating Arsenal games have gone the way you would expect.
I'd sack Smith IF someone else is lined up to do a rescue job , we need a new voice now on the sidelines more so as we don't have the fans to inspire the players.
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Heard the commentator say Neil Taylor had now played 100 games for us. Sums it up really.
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The quality isn't there. We try, we close, we run about, we put the miles in, but there just isn't that turn of pace, the quality up front or in midfield with delivery.
It's nothing to do with intangible clichéd stuff like bottle and the like. Its about a side like Wolves having the quality of organisation to make it very difficult to find space and deny opportunities. Its about Johnny making a run that isn't picked up and when the ball does fall, for realistically the only chance of the game of note, and having the quality to take it.
We are reliant on Hourihane, a player who was nicknamed Hologram last season. He lacks pace and a righf foot.
Nakamba, lacks composure and a range of passing. AEG and Tezuguet, Taylor, Elmo, Konsa, House, Samatta, Wesley, Nyland, Davis they're all not good enough for this level.
Coaching, systems, it really doesn't matter when you aren't good enough. We are a Championship squad, with a sprinkling of good players; Heaton, Mings, McGinn, Luiz, Grealish. Sadly we will likely only keep one of those for next season, Heaton and maybe Luiz.
Recruitment has been poor and now confidence is completely evaporated. But what system and selection can anybody put out and say with confidence that yes, that is a side who will dominate games in this league. I can't and to that end Smith has been left badly exposed.
I'm disappointed I won't get to see Grealish live again in a Villa shirt.
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I was hoping with two up front, we would be loads better and at least a threat.
I was wrong on both
Smith neglected to put a single wide player out there for them!
After caving to the pressure to abandon his dreadful 4-3-3.. He literally stuck 3 slow-footed CMs behind the forwards and jack.
Dean Smith out, tonight. I’d rather have Neil Warnock lay into this bunch for the next three weeks than watch this dross and go down without a whimper.
Geez, everybody wanted both wingers out of the team and called for the diamond. I've no idea why, we already have no pace so putting four, slow central midfielders into the team was hardly likely to help. Smith has bowed to pressure to play two up front, the team won't have trained in that formation at all. Managers do start to look desperate when they start throwing reactive formations together.
Lots of nonsense about Jack not caring too - it's just easy mud to throw. He's doing loads of running but wasting energy collecting the ball off our defenders and the rest of the team just give him slow possession from a standing start. What's he meant to do?
We just aren't good enough throughout the entire side. We've been poor defensively all season but teams worked out how to nullify our attacking threat (it's not hard - just squeeze Grealish out of the game) since the turn of the year. Two goals in our last six games (both from set pieces) is the result. It needs a miracle turnaround in form now. Ain't happening is it?
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This is the problem when you pick the system around the players rather than the players for a system.
There’s no system. There’s no planning. There’s no sense of direction, other than down obviously.
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The technical ability of every player besides Grealish and Luiz was abysmal today. Heavy touches galore and poorly weighted and directed passes.
Not sure how you haven't put Jack in that very bracket today?
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the same predictable garbage that has become part of our DNA. Galling to see Nuno next to Smith.
Got to say I'm not convinced by Jack as a captain either this last fortnight
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We gambled on buying in cheaper players and hoping they hit the ground running. In the main, they haven't, which was pretty likely otherwise everyone would do it. 2 out of the 3 loan signings have been truly awful, providing neither an improvement in quality or any freshness to the squad.
We have one truly creative player, who hasn't been at his best and so we create fk all.
We have got 2 points in 4 games since the resumption. 1 of these we shouldn't have got. In all the games we have looked half arsed and lacking in intensity.
The resumption has been really disappointing, the only positive I can think of is that Luiz has been really good.
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It looks to me like three, maybe more, of that lot have already lined up their next move and so have thrown it in for us. It’s the only explanation I can think of as to why they look so badly off form.
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Luiz is starting to look a good player. The rest look shit and/or disinterested. We seem content to go down without so much as a whimper. You know you are fucked when George Weah's other cousin Trezeguet is on the pitch, with that permanent dazed and confused look on his face, as if he's not quite sure what he's doing there or how he got there. Me neither Trez.
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No creativity no speed, it was agony watching, get to the half forward line then pass it sideways or backwards, we simply do not have a player that can take defenders on. Smith should go now he's had long enough i would just like to see another manager til the end of the season just to see if he can get improvement out of them.
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The technical ability of every player besides Grealish and Luiz was abysmal today. Heavy touches galore and poorly weighted and directed passes.
When that is added to zero pace, zero urgency, zero movement and zero creativity it is always going to be a losing formula.
I don't think Smith is the man for the job anymore, but which manager could seriously get better out of a group of very poor players at this level?
I don’t think that matters because most of them will be off. The next manager with have a plain canvas the same as Dean had. That was the beauty of the situation Dean found himself in when Whelan, Jedinak etc left he had a lot of money to sign players that fitted his system and he’s blown it.
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Never looked like scoring against a Wolves side, who never got out of 2nd gear, they didn't need to. Too slow, too predictable, set pieces awful, summed up by Nyland's free kick in the last minute.
At the moment it's difficult to see us winning another game, they make it very hard to stay positive.
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what does it take for the owners to do something?
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Just resign Dean. Fucking woeful. Limping towards the championship. Highly depressing.
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Re: Brentford and Smith.
I am pretty sure that Smith is the one who benefited from being there and doing it the ‘Brentford way’. He has taken that reflected success and bagged himself a job at a massive club.
In the meantime, Brentford have continued with their philosophy and gone from strength to strength.
It wasn’t Smiths Brentford as has been shown since he left.
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Geez, everybody wanted both wingers out of the team and called for the diamond. I've no idea why, we already have no pace so putting four, slow central midfielders into the team was hardly likely to help. Smith has bowed to pressure to play two up front, the team won't have trained in that formation at all. Managers do start to look desperate when they start throwing reactive formations together.
And yet the tip of that diamond spent the entire 90 minutes being anywhere but. I'm starting to think Jack plays where he wants once he crosses the white line.
The crux of the problem is, we have wingers they aren't good enough and we don't have the creativity elsewhere or up front to play a different way regardless
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If you look at our bench and starters, it would be difficult too pick out more than 4 "average" Premier League quality players.(Grealpish may be touted as a world beater - but is he?)
So to have any chance at all against most sides, they'd have to be performing at 100% and the rest of the team would have to be running their nuts off in support in a formation and playing style that they all understood and bought into.
Sadly, this isn't the case.
In too many games, too many players have failed to perform.
And that is surely down to the management and coaching
In every career there's a level beyond which you can't go because you're just not good enough.
Now I know we all love DS because of his backstory - local lad etc., but perhaps winning the 2nd Div play-off last season was as good as he was ever going to get?
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We are paying the price for years of poor/shocking managers and piss poor ownership. I really worry that our present owners will see us as a lost cause and take their money elsewhere. As ambitious people, they didn’t shell out to buy a mediocre championship side with a big ground and support. There are some big decisions to be made in the summer regarding the direction of this club, staring with the management and coaching staff.
Judging by how many want Smith out and those that wanted him out even before the season was suspended those people obviously have issues with the ownership too as they appointed him and they also continue to employ him.
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It looks to me like three, maybe more, of that lot have already lined up their next move and so have thrown it in for us. It’s the only explanation I can think of as to why they look so badly off form.
Is this really the only explanation you can think of? It's just easy mud to throw. The reality is much more simple. They are trying but just aren't good enough and we don't have the right blend of players at all, no matter what the formation. Confidence has gone too now so none of them are taking any responsibility, hence the lack of urgency.
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Re: Brentford and Smith.
I am pretty sure that Smith is the one who benefited from being there and doing it the ‘Brentford way’. He has taken that reflected success and bagged himself a job at a massive club.
In the meantime, Brentford have continued with their philosophy and gone from strength to strength.
It wasn’t Smiths Brentford as has been shown since he left.
Fair point maybe it was lot more about the Brentford method than Smith. And Thomas Frank has got them higher in the table than Smith did.
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I remember Purslow sitting there saying all our new signings would have character.
If that characteristic was to stroll around and give up, then yes, the signings have been excellent in that respect.
Clearly, players in that side has given up. We played the last 25 minutes like we were protecting a 2-0 lead.
I’ve seen more urgency from Henri Lansbury.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12015975/dendoncker-strike-sinks-aston-villa
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Expected. That's how woeful it's got.
The second I saw Traore named on the bench, I dropped some money on a Wolves win.
If you can take 'any' positives from that game, Grealish had a 15 minute spell in the first half when he looked like he was getting back to something like form, Douglas Luiz continues to impress, and John McGinn looked fresher coming on as a sub.
Played a good side today, but the least we expect is fight and urgency when a goal down.
Rubbish again, as it has been bar the odd glitch ALL season..... SMITH OUT. Now.
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Geez, everybody wanted both wingers out of the team and called for the diamond. I've no idea why, we already have no pace so putting four, slow central midfielders into the team was hardly likely to help. Smith has bowed to pressure to play two up front, the team won't have trained in that formation at all. Managers do start to look desperate when they start throwing reactive formations together.
And yet the tip of that diamond spent the entire 90 minutes being anywhere but. I'm starting to think Jack plays where he wants once he crosses the white line.
The crux of the problem is, we have wingers they aren't good enough and we don't have the creativity elsewhere or up front to play a different way regardless
Dean honestly expected Hourihane, Nakamba and Hause to run the flanks to provide service to the forwards.
You’ve gotta be piss drunk to think that would’ve been successful.
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I don't see more quality in Sheffield United's squad, probably Newcastle or Brighton's either. They are all well-drilled and capable of looking more threatening than required though. Our goal threat has evaporated with Jack being largely nullified.
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I don't see more quality in Sheffield United's squad, probably Newcastle or Brighton's either. They are all well-drilled and capable of looking more threatening than required though. Our goal threat has evaporated with Jack being largely nullified.
Fully agree. The quality point is a factor, but if you’re really well coached you’ll be in with a chance. We’re going down because our coaching team doesn’t have a clue.
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I don't see more quality in Sheffield United's squad, probably Newcastle or Brighton's either. They are all well-drilled and capable of looking more threatening than required though. Our goal threat has evaporated with Jack being largely nullified.
Fully agree. The quality point is a factor, but if you’re really well coached you’ll be in with a chance. We’re going down because our coaching team doesn’t have a clue.
In what facet have we improved at all since the start of the season?
Has Dean Smith/JT made a single player better?
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I fucking hate and detest seeing Hourihane waggling out his leg in an attempt to tackle and then skipping around like a fucking prancing horse when he has missed yet another interception.
Not as much as I fucking hate AEG and Trezeguet though.
And fucking Smith, now.
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What is it about Aston Villa that has made us so far behind sides in terms of simple off the ball movement? We're 30 years behind the times in the way we play. It goes way back too. Pockets of good play aside, but never consistent, or seemingly without any forethought or grand plan, we play so rigidly. Even in better times under Gregory and O Neill, our play was pretty simple. With pube head we were very effective on counter attack, but as a possession side trying to break teams down, the movement was often poor. No small triangles, no pass and move, just a rigid 4-4-f-2. We've been the same way ever since, without an effective system and worse players.
Wolves by comparison, who weren't even that good today, coasted and every part about the way they played showed they've developed as fluid way of playing for a number of years. If a player receives the ball, another player has already anticipated the need to move and be in a position to receive the next pass. We don't do this and we've not done it for over 20 years. Frankly it's pathetic. It also highlights just why British managers have struggled for success this century and foreign coaches have become more successful. Then you look back at our meat and potatoes appointments, almost entirely predictable and uninspiring. There's a lot of intelligence in the way modern sides set up and train, but we're so far behind still. Unfortunately our choice in foreign coaches has been poor recently. There were some signs of Houllier instilling a bit more subtlety into our game, but we undid that all with the next appointment.
We've got to once again tear it all up, go back to square one and rebuild in the championship. But whoever the new manager is, needs tactical nous and an understanding of the modern game. In recent premier league times there haven't been many sides as consistently frustrating to watch as us in terms of passing and movement, in that ability to play in tight spaces. And the worst part is, we have a player like Grealish who'd absolutely excel if we could just drag ourselves out this outdated mentality.
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That was quite depressing to watch actually. We didn't play atrociously but it was like a catalogue of our weaknesses: no pace, poor ball retention, no movement up top, defensive errors, goalkeeping uncertainty, lack of goal threat, nothing on the bench, no flair, little energy. Wolves are a very very good side so we have to be at our best if we hope to get anything at all out of the game but the truth is we just don't have enough to beat good sides in this division, and barely enough to beat poor sides. We have a weak squad and a poor manager.
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The new owners of Wolves who appointed Nuno took a gamble and boy has it has paid off massively.
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I don't see more quality in Sheffield United's squad, probably Newcastle or Brighton's either. They are all well-drilled and capable of looking more threatening than required though. Our goal threat has evaporated with Jack being largely nullified.
I agree. Sheffield United, Palace, Burnley, Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton, Watford, West Ham and Bournemouth are all above us and none of them are that special on paper. But they pull out positive performances and positive results.
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Geez, everybody wanted both wingers out of the team and called for the diamond. I've no idea why, we already have no pace so putting four, slow central midfielders into the team was hardly likely to help. Smith has bowed to pressure to play two up front, the team won't have trained in that formation at all. Managers do start to look desperate when they start throwing reactive formations together.
And yet the tip of that diamond spent the entire 90 minutes being anywhere but. I'm starting to think Jack plays where he wants once he crosses the white line.
The crux of the problem is, we have wingers they aren't good enough and we don't have the creativity elsewhere or up front to play a different way regardless
Dean honestly expected Hourihane, Nakamba and Hause to run the flanks to provide service to the forwards.
You’ve gotta be piss drunk to think that would’ve been successful.
Glenn Hoddle said continually in the first half, and it's not exactly a great insight, that our forwards remaining rigidly central was giving Wolves an easy time. Whereas if you play two up you need your forwards to be working the channels. That's the advantage of two up top. One works wide, and the other is still in the box to cause trouble. Neither did that. They probably weren't instructed to. Consequently you have no width, and a CH playing RB isn't going to create much. Shambolic and the kind of tactical ineptitude that we can do without. I'm all for keeping the two up top, but you've got to have the strikers working the wide areas and stretching the defence on wide balls. Vass and Joachim used to be very good at that. Davis and Samatta may be a million miles from that sort of quality, but they've enough speed to do that effectively.
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Do'L, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Di Matteo, Bruce and, I hate to say it, Smith.We have had some uninspiring managers since Gregory. I leave MON out of that because he at least had us competing at the top end of the table (for all his faults).
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Well he picked the formation I certainly wanted pre-game. On the positives, I liked our shape defensively. Taylor and McGinn when they came in did well as did both our centre backs and Luiz. A very good Wolves side created few chances against us and it took a brilliant goal to finally breach us.
On the flip side, Grealish started well but the longer the game went on the less interested he became. No idea why he decided to take up a permanent station over by the dug outs. Hourihane, in the team for set pieces, was dismal. Great playing with a front two but both looked as if they met for the first time in the dressing room pre game. Samatta in particular was anonymous. The lack of fight, quality and spirit after Wolves went ahead was depressing. There was one quality ball in by AEG but little else. Not fully gone yet but we seemed resigned to our fate in the closing stages.
Nyland 4, Konsa 5 (Elmo 6), Hause 8, Mings 7, Targett 5 (Taylor 7), Luiz 7, Hourihane 4 (McGinn 7), Nakamba 6, Grealish 6, Davis 6, Samatta 3.
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What is it about Aston Villa that has made us so far behind sides in terms of simple off the ball movement? We're 30 years behind the times in the way we play. It goes way back too. Pockets of good play aside, but never consistent, or seemingly without any forethought or grand plan, we play so rigidly. Even in better times under Gregory and O Neill, our play was pretty simple. With pube head we were very effective on counter attack, but as a possession side trying to break teams down, the movement was often poor. No small triangles, no pass and move, just a rigid 4-4-f-2. We've been the same way ever since, without an effective system and worse players.
Wolves by comparison, who weren't even that good today, coasted and every part about the way they played showed they've developed as fluid way of playing for a number of years. If a player receives the ball, another player has already anticipated the need to move and be in a position to receive the next pass. We don't do this and we've not done it for over 20 years. Frankly it's pathetic. It also highlights just why British managers have struggled for success this century and foreign coaches have become more successful. Then you look back at our meat and potatoes appointments, almost entirely predictable and uninspiring. There's a lot of intelligence in the way modern sides set up and train, but we're so far behind still. Unfortunately our choice in foreign coaches has been poor recently. There were some signs of Houllier instilling a bit more subtlety into our game, but we undid that all with the next appointment.
We've got to once again tear it all up, go back to square one and rebuild in the championship. But whoever the new manager is, needs tactical nous and an understanding of the modern game. In recent premier league times there haven't been many sides as consistently frustrating to watch as us in terms of passing and movement, in that ability to play in tight spaces. And the worst part is, we have a player like Grealish who'd absolutely excel if we could just drag ourselves out this outdated mentality.
For me it’s the British manager thing - there is a reason all the top clubs are managed by foreign managers - they have moved on and we are still stuck in the 70’s. There are plenty of promising managers in Germany, Spain, Argentina, France etc who’d pay their own taxi fare to B6 - do our new owners have the nous to go with their money??
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I think there is little point in demanding smith should go with 6 games left, I doubt very much whether it’s going to happen. It’s a perfect storm now of a manager scrambling round trying to find anything to scrape any kind of win and players who on the whole aren’t good enough.
Hindsight’s a great thing but it’s fairly obvious now that most of the players aren’t up to this level. You can blame the manager all you like for tactics and motivation and there Are problems there, but virtually every one of our set pieces were awful today because of the delivery, the players are at fault for that. I do think Grealish cares and he had a decent first half, but his body language is wrong and for me in the last 10 mins when we desperately needed some inspiration, it seemed like he didn’t really want the ball.
We could still stay up if Bournemouth and West Ham keep losing and it comes down to the last 3 games, so midweek is vital on that front an we need Brice to do us a favour. But if we did stay up another rebuild is obviously needed, it’s been said already but a group of players aren’t going to get any better, Taylor (although he didn’t do anything wrong today), hourihane, nakamba, Trez, el Ghazi, maybe Samatta though he looked decent before lockdown. If and probably when we go down, I think we still need to clear at least some of those players as well as losing Grealish, Mings, McGinn. We need to try and do a wolves a build a premier league side in the championship, easier said than done.
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Do'L, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Di Matteo, Bruce and, I hate to say it, Smith.We have had some uninspiring managers since Gregory. I leave MON out of that because he at least had us competing at the top end of the table (for all his faults).
Striking that all those managers are either British and/or lacked any real management experience. Why do we keep doing it??? Appoint an experienced foreign manager who has had success - please!
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Another Summer of changing the entire squad beckons again.
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The quality isn't there. We try, we close, we run about, we put the miles in, but there just isn't that turn of pace, the quality up front or in midfield with delivery.
It's nothing to do with intangible clichéd stuff like bottle and the like. Its about a side like Wolves having the quality of organisation to make it very difficult to find space and deny opportunities. Its about Johnny making a run that isn't picked up and when the ball does fall, for realistically the only chance of the game of note, and having the quality to take it.
We are reliant on Hourihane, a player who was nicknamed Hologram last season. He lacks pace and a righf foot.
Nakamba, lacks composure and a range of passing. AEG and Tezuguet, Taylor, Elmo, Konsa, House, Samatta, Wesley, Nyland, Davis they're all not good enough for this level.
Coaching, systems, it really doesn't matter when you aren't good enough. We are a Championship squad, with a sprinkling of good players; Heaton, Mings, McGinn, Luiz, Grealish. Sadly we will likely only keep one of those for next season, Heaton and maybe Luiz.
Recruitment has been poor and now confidence is completely evaporated. But what system and selection can anybody put out and say with confidence that yes, that is a side who will dominate games in this league. I can't and to that end Smith has been left badly exposed.
I'm disappointed I won't get to see Grealish live again in a Villa shirt.
And that's as good a summary of it as anyone's going to get.
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If your picking a 3 man midfield in a 4-3-1-3 formation if you think Conner is a right sided MF in that formation you are already in trouble.What's worse is against Newcastle he was further forward and on the left to use to get balls into the bow.Time and time again when we have played Conner has he is used deep he is hopeless at this level in that role.
Smith will claim we are better in defence , I would argue its not that we have got better at defending its more the team is playing deeper and more cautiously which has nullified us as any type of attacking threat.
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Not with a bang but with a whimper
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Another Summer of changing the entire squad, coaches, scouting department and juggling ffp beckons again.
Fixed that for you..
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The quality isn't there. We try, we close, we run about, we put the miles in, but there just isn't that turn of pace, the quality up front or in midfield with delivery.
It's nothing to do with intangible clichéd stuff like bottle and the like. Its about a side like Wolves having the quality of organisation to make it very difficult to find space and deny opportunities. Its about Johnny making a run that isn't picked up and when the ball does fall, for realistically the only chance of the game of note, and having the quality to take it.
We are reliant on Hourihane, a player who was nicknamed Hologram last season. He lacks pace and a righf foot.
Nakamba, lacks composure and a range of passing. AEG and Tezuguet, Taylor, Elmo, Konsa, House, Samatta, Wesley, Nyland, Davis they're all not good enough for this level.
Coaching, systems, it really doesn't matter when you aren't good enough. We are a Championship squad, with a sprinkling of good players; Heaton, Mings, McGinn, Luiz, Grealish. Sadly we will likely only keep one of those for next season, Heaton and maybe Luiz.
Recruitment has been poor and now confidence is completely evaporated. But what system and selection can anybody put out and say with confidence that yes, that is a side who will dominate games in this league. I can't and to that end Smith has been left badly exposed.
I'm disappointed I won't get to see Grealish live again in a Villa shirt.
And that's as good a summary of it as anyone's going to get.
I think it absolves the coaching too much. There is absolutely no game plan at all.
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Pitiful and abject at best.
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I thought when Targett went off we might be a bit more solid down our left but Traore went past Taylor at least twice literally like he wasn't there.
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The new owners of Wolves who appointed Nuno took a gamble and boy has it has paid off massively.
They did. However, more impressively they first appointed Walter Zenga and then bulleted him quickly when it was obvious he wasn't up to it.
Our performances since Man U away have been appalling yet our owners / Purslow haven't taken tough decisions
I cant think of a good performance in the league since Man U
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What is it about Aston Villa that has made us so far behind sides in terms of simple off the ball movement? We're 30 years behind the times in the way we play. It goes way back too. Pockets of good play aside, but never consistent, or seemingly without any forethought or grand plan, we play so rigidly. Even in better times under Gregory and O Neill, our play was pretty simple. With pube head we were very effective on counter attack, but as a possession side trying to break teams down, the movement was often poor. No small triangles, no pass and move, just a rigid 4-4-f-2. We've been the same way ever since, without an effective system and worse players.
Wolves by comparison, who weren't even that good today, coasted and every part about the way they played showed they've developed as fluid way of playing for a number of years. If a player receives the ball, another player has already anticipated the need to move and be in a position to receive the next pass. We don't do this and we've not done it for over 20 years. Frankly it's pathetic. It also highlights just why British managers have struggled for success this century and foreign coaches have become more successful. Then you look back at our meat and potatoes appointments, almost entirely predictable and uninspiring. There's a lot of intelligence in the way modern sides set up and train, but we're so far behind still. Unfortunately our choice in foreign coaches has been poor recently. There were some signs of Houllier instilling a bit more subtlety into our game, but we undid that all with the next appointment.
We've got to once again tear it all up, go back to square one and rebuild in the championship. But whoever the new manager is, needs tactical nous and an understanding of the modern game. In recent premier league times there haven't been many sides as consistently frustrating to watch as us in terms of passing and movement, in that ability to play in tight spaces. And the worst part is, we have a player like Grealish who'd absolutely excel if we could just drag ourselves out this outdated mentality.
For me it’s the British manager thing - there is a reason all the top clubs are managed by foreign managers - they have moved on and we are still stuck in the 70’s. There are plenty of promising managers in Germany, Spain, Argentina, France etc who’d pay their own taxi fare to B6 - do our new owners have the nous to go with their money??
Most definitely. If you look at most of our managers, our mentality has been either work hard and grind out a result, or go out and try and express yourself. There's no thought to it and a reason so few British managers are competing at the top of the Prem, is because they've completely outdated.
We need to be more adventurous in our recruitment this summer and get a manager who shares the ethos of the football club and the hierarchy (if we have a D.O.F, he needs to be in tune with the gaffer). We're still not making efficient enough use of our academy. We're not buying foreign players with any seeming grand plan of how they'll fit together. As a unit, Wolves look good because it looks like players have been scouted not just on their ability and attitude, but on how they'll gel together too. I look at our midfielders, and they don't fit together like a jigsaw, they're too different in style, and the fact we're regularly shifting formations, shows there was no grand plan.
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Do'L, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Di Matteo, Bruce and, I hate to say it, Smith.We have had some uninspiring managers since Gregory. I leave MON out of that because he at least had us competing at the top end of the table (for all his faults).
Striking that all those managers are either British and/or lacked any real management experience. Why do we keep doing it??? Appoint an experienced foreign manager who has had success - please!
Do'L, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Di Matteo, Bruce and, I hate to say it, Smith.We have had some uninspiring managers since Gregory. I leave MON out of that because he at least had us competing at the top end of the table (for all his faults).
The last ten years have, in the main, been pretty depressing for us. Some of the football we’ve seen is barely worthy of the name. I’m surprised we’ve got teenage kids who want to follow us.
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I thought when Targett went off we might be a bit more solid down our left but Traore went past Taylor at least twice literally like he wasn't there.
Would have probably been worse if Targett was still in there. Second time this season he's magically got injured in a match when he's up against Traore isn't it? Just a coincidence?
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I thought when Targett went off we might be a bit more solid down our left but Traore went past Taylor at least twice literally like he wasn't there.
Would have probably been worse of Targett was still in there. Second time this season he's magically got injured in a match when he's up against Traore isn't it? Just a coincidence?
Yes. Don't be daft.
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If we go down the question is whether the owners would go for a Warnock/Pulis style promotion expert who could also arguably keep you up even if it wasn't pretty or a long term Nuno/Wolves appointment. Bearing in mind for every Nuno there are a dozen Pep Clotet's and Pepe Mel's.
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I thought when Targett went off we might be a bit more solid down our left but Traore went past Taylor at least twice literally like he wasn't there.
Would have probably been worse if Targett was still in there. Second time this season he's magically got injured in a match when he's up against Traore isn't it? Just a coincidence?
Wouldn't he have been better playing until Traore came on then faking an injury ...
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Most definitely. If you look at most of our managers, our mentality has been either work hard and grind out a result, or go out and try and express yourself. There's no thought to it and a reason so few British managers are competing at the top of the Prem, is because they've completely outdated.
I've always hated that phrase 'express yourself' in football. I don't want players expressing themselves like mad all over the pitch, whatever that even means. I just want good players playing better.
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The quality isn't there. We try, we close, we run about, we put the miles in, but there just isn't that turn of pace, the quality up front or in midfield with delivery.
It's nothing to do with intangible clichéd stuff like bottle and the like. Its about a side like Wolves having the quality of organisation to make it very difficult to find space and deny opportunities. Its about Johnny making a run that isn't picked up and when the ball does fall, for realistically the only chance of the game of note, and having the quality to take it.
We are reliant on Hourihane, a player who was nicknamed Hologram last season. He lacks pace and a righf foot.
Nakamba, lacks composure and a range of passing. AEG and Tezuguet, Taylor, Elmo, Konsa, House, Samatta, Wesley, Nyland, Davis they're all not good enough for this level.
Coaching, systems, it really doesn't matter when you aren't good enough. We are a Championship squad, with a sprinkling of good players; Heaton, Mings, McGinn, Luiz, Grealish. Sadly we will likely only keep one of those for next season, Heaton and maybe Luiz.
Recruitment has been poor and now confidence is completely evaporated. But what system and selection can anybody put out and say with confidence that yes, that is a side who will dominate games in this league. I can't and to that end Smith has been left badly exposed.
I'm disappointed I won't get to see Grealish live again in a Villa shirt.
And that's as good a summary of it as anyone's going to get.
I think it absolves the coaching too much. There is absolutely no game plan at all.
Fair point. Smith and the coaching don't appear to have accomplished anything this season with the players. Smith just isn't good enough. That's quite apparent.
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Do'L, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Di Matteo, Bruce and, I hate to say it, Smith.We have had some uninspiring managers since Gregory. I leave MON out of that because he at least had us competing at the top end of the table (for all his faults).
Striking that all those managers are either British and/or lacked any real management experience. Why do we keep doing it??? Appoint an experienced foreign manager who has had success - please!
4 of them are British and also, I forgot Houllier, he wasn't British or Garde who I also forgot. Fuck sake. We are a mess.
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This is the most predictable 0-1 ever. Some huff and puff from us whilst opposition toyed with us in the first half. They notched it up slightly to score and just watched the game out without breaking sweat. Depressing.
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Never. Hope.
Hope is a lie.
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Never. Hope.
Hope is a lie.
Just remember, even hopeless, has hope in it.
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The new owners of Wolves who appointed Nuno took a gamble and boy has it has paid off massively.
They did. However, more impressively they first appointed Walter Zenga and then bulleted him quickly when it was obvious he wasn't up to it.
Our performances since Man U away have been appalling yet our owners / Purslow haven't taken tough decisions
I cant think of a good performance in the league since Man U
Good performance at Burnley where we also had two key injuries. For all the flak Wesley was getting, he held the ball up more effectively than Samatta or Davis.
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Good performance at Burnley where we also had two key injuries. For all the flak Wesley was getting, he held the ball up more effectively than Samatta or Davis.
If the table was based on holding up the ball instead of kicking it in the bloody goal we'd be challenging for Europe.
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Approaching relegation like a juggernaut careering towards the cliff edge.
"Hang on a minute, lads. I've got a great idea."
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Good performance at Burnley where we also had two key injuries. For all the flak Wesley was getting, he held the ball up more effectively than Samatta or Davis.
If the table was based on holding up the ball instead of kicking it in the bloody goal we'd be challenging for Europe.
I think we would still be lesser lights!
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The Wolves have their Wesley on the bench. A young lad with potential whose development can be nurtured and confidence preserved.
We decided to rely on Wesley, rather than somebody of proven high quality. That is the same story for too many key positions.
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Nyland seems to have gone backwards. His distribution is terrible again and he spills the ball at least twice a game at the moment. Defensively we were solid enough but offered nothing in the final third.
We’ve show nothing since the restart that looks like we’re up for the scrap tbh.
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That performance was pathetic, we didn’t even push Wolves into 2nd gear.
I’ve always tried to stick with Dean but before lockdown we didn’t know our best team and if anything we are even further from knowing that now. For the first time I’m thinking it might be the right thing to sack him, perhaps having a manager & coaching staff with zero top level experience between them is hitting us now.
There was an outcry for 2 up top but that is utterly pointless when those 2 have no clue of how to work together.
Hopefully that is Nylands last game, that throw out to Jota was symptomatic of the teams defending all season, horrific individual errors, fortunate not to be punished - Nyland / Mings / Hause looked like an accident waiting to happen all game.
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Nyland's confidence is shattered playing behind a totally crap defence. It's not a good situation for a young player.
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I remember Purslow sitting there saying all our new signings would have character.
If that characteristic was to stroll around and give up, then yes, the signings have been excellent in that respect.
Clearly, players in that side has given up. We played the last 25 minutes like we were protecting a 2-0 lead.
I’ve seen more urgency from Henri Lansbury.
Just think they've had the life sucked out of them on this terrible run, it happens to many squads. West Ham have better players than we do but they look equally as lifeless.
I had the horrible feeling that last second Son goal effectively relegated us and we haven't looked like winning a game since. Had many feeling sorry for ourselves performances.
Since that Spurs game we've really had the feeling of sleepwalking to relegation and being clueless as how to prevent it.
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That was one of the most depressing matches I have seen Villa play. After 10 mins I thought we were doing ok after that Lifeless, No intensity, no tempo, no desire and no energy.
You are not going to break a team down slowing down the play constantly sideways passing. The strikers needed to run down the channels pull them out. Davis at least tried.
Smith's interview stank of desperation - blaming number of games etc. The truth is these four games - three at home - we had to win one minimum and we haven't.
We are down.
Smith is in deep deep trouble but the recruitment has been awful.
We are going to lose the heart of the team - Grealish, McGinn likely Mings. We will have little or no quality left.
Douglas is the only one of the new players who has grown into the league and because of that will likely move on. Marvellous maybe combative in the Championship.
As for the rest Wesley, Samatta, El Ghazi, Trezequet they are all luxuries and players who simply aren't cut out for British football IMO.
It is breathtaking we are back in the same position facing relegation again and I don't think ive been more depressed as a Villa fan
Bring back lockdown at least it stops Villa ruining your mood over and over again
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Nyland's confidence is shattered playing behind a totally crap defence. It's not a good situation for a young player.
I've heard it said at various times this season:
The forwards don't score because they get no service from midfield
The defence is crap because they get no protection from the midfield
The goalie is crap because the defence is crap.
The manager's crap because the players are crap.
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The vast majority of our players are just not good enough. Being good enough means being able to play to the required standard without looking for excuses. We have just binned Green, RHM and O'Hare. Are the ones we are keeping any better? Bad managers invariably have one thing in common. They are stubborn. They view change as weakness. It is not, it is being flexible. Using your brain to outwit the opposition. When was the last time we had a really smart manager? SGT?
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I watched Cov play just before the lockdown. A bit lightweight but well drilled and can pass and move quickly.
They will go through us like a hot knife through butter.
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That performance was pathetic, we didn’t even push Wolves into 2nd gear.
I’ve always tried to stick with Dean but before lockdown we didn’t know our best team and if anything we are even further from knowing that now. For the first time I’m thinking it might be the right thing to sack him, perhaps having a manager & coaching staff with zero top level experience between them is hitting us now.
There was an outcry for 2 up top but that is utterly pointless when those 2 have no clue of how to work together.
Hopefully that is Nylands last game, that throw out to Jota was symptomatic of the teams defending all season, horrific individual errors, fortunate not to be punished - Nyland / Mings / Hause looked like an accident waiting to happen all game.
Wolves didn’t need to start the engine.
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Yes, it was just far to easy for Wolves. It has been to easy for the majority of teams we have played this year.
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The vast majority of our players are just not good enough. Being good enough means being able to play to the required standard without looking for excuses. We have just binned Green, RHM and O'Hare. Are the ones we are keeping any better? Bad managers invariably have one thing in common. They are stubborn. They view change as weakness. It is not, it is being flexible. Using your brain to outwit the opposition. When was the last time we had a really smart manager? SGT?
exactly, the day after we announce the abandonment of our crop of youth players we put Trez AEG Hourihane on show.
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I think we looked better than West Ham did against the same opposition, so that's a positive of sorts. Eighteen points to play for, we have to keep fighting and believing.
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I watched Cov play just before the lockdown. A bit lightweight but well drilled and can pass and move quickly.
They will go through us like a hot knife through butter.
This is the most depressing I’ve seen today.
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The vast majority of our players are just not good enough. Being good enough means being able to play to the required standard without looking for excuses. We have just binned Green, RHM and O'Hare. Are the ones we are keeping any better? Bad managers invariably have one thing in common. They are stubborn. They view change as weakness. It is not, it is being flexible. Using your brain to outwit the opposition. When was the last time we had a really smart manager? SGT?
exactly, the day after we announce the abandonment of our crop of youth players we put Trez AEG Hourihane on show.
I always worry when I hear the word 'philosophy' about a football manager. For one thing, it's a bullshit term. For another, it basically means that manager only knows how to play one way and will stick dogmatically to it even when it's plainly shit. A good football manager will be prepared to change his approach every game, even within a game, if it improves the chance of winning.
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I watched Cov play just before the lockdown. A bit lightweight but well drilled and can pass and move quickly.
They will go through us like a hot knife through butter.
This is the most depressing I’ve seen today.
Obviously didn’t watch Villa earlier...
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The vast majority of our players are just not good enough. Being good enough means being able to play to the required standard without looking for excuses. We have just binned Green, RHM and O'Hare. Are the ones we are keeping any better? Bad managers invariably have one thing in common. They are stubborn. They view change as weakness. It is not, it is being flexible. Using your brain to outwit the opposition. When was the last time we had a really smart manager? SGT?
exactly, the day after we announce the abandonment of our crop of youth players we put Trez AEG Hourihane on show.
I always worry when I hear the word 'philosophy' about a football manager. For one thing, it's a bullshit term. For another, it basically means that manager only knows how to play one way and will stick dogmatically to it even when it's plainly shit. A good football manager will be prepared to change his approach every game, even within a game, if it improves the chance of winning.
I don’t know whether this is true, most find or believe in a particular style of play/tactics and seems to me find players to suit that. It seems to me today’s Wolves are a classic example of that. They e more or less played the same way since Nuno took charge, when they got promoted they replaced a couple of players they deemed not up to premier league and bought in replacements deemed good enough.
Klopp has used pretty the same tactics, highly dependent on attacking full backs and tinkered and improved his team over time.
It seems to me that the most successful teams have a distinct pattern of play
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It seems to me that the most successful teams have a distinct pattern of play
We must be the only team that has a distinct pattern of play that doesn't work.
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I watched Cov play just before the lockdown. A bit lightweight but well drilled and can pass and move quickly.
They will go through us like a hot knife through butter.
This is the most depressing I’ve seen today.
Obviously didn’t watch Villa earlier...
Radio only.
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That performance was pathetic, we didn’t even push Wolves into 2nd gear.
I’ve always tried to stick with Dean but before lockdown we didn’t know our best team and if anything we are even further from knowing that now. For the first time I’m thinking it might be the right thing to sack him, perhaps having a manager & coaching staff with zero top level experience between them is hitting us now.
There was an outcry for 2 up top but that is utterly pointless when those 2 have no clue of how to work together.
Hopefully that is Nylands last game, that throw out to Jota was symptomatic of the teams defending all season, horrific individual errors, fortunate not to be punished - Nyland / Mings / Hause looked like an accident waiting to happen all game.
Thing is with Nyland, regardless of how he does it, we seem to concede the least amount of goals when’s he’s in.
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Your right Smith does want a distinct pattern of play he prefers, although in desperation he’s changed that several times this year. The pattern of play may or may not be faulty and the coaching may or may not be inadequate, we can have our opinions but none of us will know. What has become glaringly obvious, is that the players we have purchased or kept faith with are largely not good enough or are not good enough yet.
It seems now we bought with a ‘philosophy’ in mind, a bit second wave lambert esque, of young and hungry and potentially marketable for a bigger sell on price, rather than buying to fit in with a distinct tactical style of play in mind. Wolves didn’t think twice about buying a 30 year old Moutinho as he could play a role in the chosen style of play and he is a proven quality player.
As has been pointed out we bought a 22 year old untried at this level and expected him to do the business.
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Your right Smith does want a distinct pattern of play he prefers, although in desperation he’s changed that several times this year. The pattern of play may or may not be faulty and the coaching may or may not be inadequate, we can have our opinions but none of us will know. What has become glaringly obvious, is that the players we have purchased or kept faith with are largely not good enough or are not good enough yet.
It seems now we bought with a ‘philosophy’ in mind, a bit second wave lambert esque, of young and hungry and potentially marketable for a bigger sell on price, rather than buying to fit in with a distinct tactical style of play in mind. Wolves didn’t think twice about buying a 30 year old Moutinho as he could play a role in the chosen style of play and he is a proven quality player.
As has been pointed out we bought a 22 year old untried at this level and expected him to do the business.
They also bought a 22 year old untried at this level and he’s now the player everyone is shit scared of he’s that good
( he was surplus to requirements when he was with us)
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Your right Smith does want a distinct pattern of play he prefers, although in desperation he’s changed that several times this year. The pattern of play may or may not be faulty and the coaching may or may not be inadequate, we can have our opinions but none of us will know. What has become glaringly obvious, is that the players we have purchased or kept faith with are largely not good enough or are not good enough yet.
It seems now we bought with a ‘philosophy’ in mind, a bit second wave lambert esque, of young and hungry and potentially marketable for a bigger sell on price, rather than buying to fit in with a distinct tactical style of play in mind. Wolves didn’t think twice about buying a 30 year old Moutinho as he could play a role in the chosen style of play and he is a proven quality player.
As has been pointed out we bought a 22 year old untried at this level and expected him to do the business.
They also bought a 22 year old untried at this level and he’s now the player everyone is shit scared of he’s that good
( he was surplus to requirements when he was with us)
Yes Adama is illustrative of how bad our planning and coaching has been for years.
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It looks to me like three, maybe more, of that lot have already lined up their next move and so have thrown it in for us. It’s the only explanation I can think of as to why they look so badly off form.
Is this really the only explanation you can think of? It's just easy mud to throw. The reality is much more simple. They are trying but just aren't good enough and we don't have the right blend of players at all, no matter what the formation. Confidence has gone too now so none of them are taking any responsibility, hence the lack of urgency.
I agree with that. It’s quite simple, all but one of the squad are not premier league quality. No where near good enough at this level I’m afraid
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Yes but the difference was Traore was a bit part player for them last season, he wasn’t bought as their main and only goal threat and they already had himinez, jots, neves etc already established. We put Wes in and the alternative was Kodja
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Just look how Norwich are playing against Man U. There is some urgency to their play. Compare that to us. We are the worst team in the division.
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Just look how Norwich are playing against Man U. There is some urgency to their play. Compare that to us.
That is what worries me about us, and I was just watching this game and thinking exactly the same thing.
We just look totally unmotivated and totally free of spark and energy, just so lethargic.
If i was a supporter of another team, I would want us down.
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Just look how Norwich are playing against Man U. There is some urgency to their play. Compare that to us.
That is what worries me about us, and I was just watching this game and thinking exactly the same thing.
We just look totally unmotivated and totally free of spark and energy, just so lethargic.
If i was a supporter of another team, I would want us down.
Which is why I would support a change of manager now as someone else might get something from them where as I am 100% Smith can't get more from them.
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Newcastle and Sheff Utd should have been games we approached full of blood and thunder, giving everything for a win. Those two games would get you half way to staying up. Instead we looked prepared to settle for a 0-0 in both of them and live to fight another day, the tempo was slow, the urgency missing and the game plans very defensive.
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So disappointing especially 2nd half as we were doing ok 1st half.
Smith has a point in fatigue and too many matches in short space of time.
Liked how we played first half
Didn't like second.
Deano spot on that lacked quality in final third.
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Just look how Norwich are playing against Man U. There is some urgency to their play. Compare that to us. We are the worst team in the division.
League positions don’t lie, whatever happens in cup performances. Norwich are on 21 points, they are the worst side in the division
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So disappointing especially 2nd half as we were doing ok 1st half.
Smith has a point in fatigue and too many matches in short space of time.
Liked how we played first half
Didn't like second.
Deano spot on that lacked quality in final third.
Smith does have a point but it’s the same for other teams too. He is spot on regarding the last third but he does nothing to address it game on game. The all fart no shit in opportunities will be our undoing as be huff and puff yet create little.
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No intensity, no plan B, C, D or E, no pace, no goal threat, too many sideways passes, too reliant on Grealish, too many poor signings. We are where we were 4 years ago but at least we now have rich owners, how long will they stick around... i would love to watch a game with them. At the moment we are on our way down, something needs to be changed as the current plan does not work, do we change the coaches.... DS, RoK and JT seem out of their depth or Suso and the scouting system... certainly more questions than answers, besides that all is good.
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I was hoping with two up front, we would be loads better and at least a threat.
I was wrong on both
Smith neglected to put a single wide player out there for them!
After caving to the pressure to abandon his dreadful 4-3-3.. He literally stuck 3 slow-footed CMs behind the forwards and jack.
Dean Smith out, tonight. I’d rather have Neil Warnock lay into this bunch for the next three weeks than watch this dross and go down without a whimper.
Geez, everybody wanted both wingers out of the team and called for the diamond. I've no idea why, we already have no pace so putting four, slow central midfielders into the team was hardly likely to help. Smith has bowed to pressure to play two up front, the team won't have trained in that formation at all. Managers do start to look desperate when they start throwing reactive formations together.
Lots of nonsense about Jack not caring too - it's just easy mud to throw. He's doing loads of running but wasting energy collecting the ball off our defenders and the rest of the team just give him slow possession from a standing start. What's he meant to do?
We just aren't good enough throughout the entire side. We've been poor defensively all season but teams worked out how to nullify our attacking threat (it's not hard - just squeeze Grealish out of the game) since the turn of the year. Two goals in our last six games (both from set pieces) is the result. It needs a miracle turnaround in form now. Ain't happening is it?
Spot on.
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The quality isn't there. We try, we close, we run about, we put the miles in, but there just isn't that turn of pace, the quality up front or in midfield with delivery.
It's nothing to do with intangible clichéd stuff like bottle and the like. Its about a side like Wolves having the quality of organisation to make it very difficult to find space and deny opportunities. Its about Johnny making a run that isn't picked up and when the ball does fall, for realistically the only chance of the game of note, and having the quality to take it.
We are reliant on Hourihane, a player who was nicknamed Hologram last season. He lacks pace and a righf foot.
Nakamba, lacks composure and a range of passing. AEG and Tezuguet, Taylor, Elmo, Konsa, House, Samatta, Wesley, Nyland, Davis they're all not good enough for this level.
Coaching, systems, it really doesn't matter when you aren't good enough. We are a Championship squad, with a sprinkling of good players; Heaton, Mings, McGinn, Luiz, Grealish. Sadly we will likely only keep one of those for next season, Heaton and maybe Luiz.
Recruitment has been poor and now confidence is completely evaporated. But what system and selection can anybody put out and say with confidence that yes, that is a side who will dominate games in this league. I can't and to that end Smith has been left badly exposed.
I'm disappointed I won't get to see Grealish live again in a Villa shirt.
And this as well .
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Just look how Norwich are playing against Man U. There is some urgency to their play. Compare that to us.
That is what worries me about us, and I was just watching this game and thinking exactly the same thing.
We just look totally unmotivated and totally free of spark and energy, just so lethargic.
If i was a supporter of another team, I would want us down.
The last sentence is what I’ve been saying also, and just how it was last time we went down. Nobody will give a fuck if we went down. To all other fans, currently invested in how we do or otherwise, we are pathetic to watch. Addition by subtraction.
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I noticed that O'Kelly was with a note pad wondering what tactics to put forward and discussing with Smith .
JT was just lurking in back ground.
I'm not sure what this O'Kelly credentials are at high level. As well as this JT is inexperienced in coaching .
Smith would have done well to have some experience hand in there with him.
Someone like Chris Hughton would have done a good job as a number 2 as a supporting coach getting team organised along with O'Kelly and JT .
Hughton is a far better manager than Smith and has done well in the Prem with small budget clubs. No way would he play second fiddle to a less experienced and inferior manager like Smith.
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I think this is probably the most depressing post-match thread I’ve read all season. Mainly because there are so many widely differing opinions as to what the problem is. Usually it’s just one or two things, but when you read through it all, pretty much every aspect of what could be wrong has been mentioned. I don’t see any quick fixes for us.
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Back to the gypsy curse. We’ve been a poison chalice on and off the pitch since MON, with a few temporary bright patches.
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Actually it’s more like final destination. We cheated fate when we were rescued from the jaws of collapse. Now fate is coming for us with a host of non-scoring strikers, battered mars bars materialising in SJM’s cupboards and the world’s second and third least astute billionaires.
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Actually it’s more like final destination. We cheated fate when we were rescued from the jaws of collapse. Now fate is coming for us with a host of non-scoring strikers, battered mars bars materialising in SJM’s cupboards and the world’s second and third least astute billionaires.
I'm intrigued now. Who's the world's first least astute billionaire?
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There's no curse. Look at the calibre of managers we've employed. We've even had scouts the other side of the world on beaches doing fuck all. The infrastructure was decimated and middling yes men were left to carry the can and take the flak for everything.
We haven't hired a good manager in donkeys years.
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I am a big critic of Smith but you can't get away from the fact that the money we spent last year was thown away. Cannot name one player that we bought is of premiership standard, where Wolves built a good side in the championship and added one or two quality players we had a pretty average team and threw money at the problem hoping players no one had ever heard of would be good enough, they are not, not a single one of them. The squad we have is mid table championship quality at best and thats with Grealish in it.
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Donald Trump?
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Without making excuses, why were we playing our 4th game before everyone else plays their 3rd? Having already played an extra game that most of the others shouldn't we have been playing our 4th a day or two after most of the others not before in order to spread the fixtures out a bit?
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Donald Trump?
Actually meant our Randolph but you’re right on reflection DJT takes the second spot.
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Without making excuses, why were we playing our 4th game before everyone else plays their 3rd? Having already played an extra game that most of the others shouldn't we have been playing our 4th a day or two after most of the others not before in order to spread the fixtures out a bit?
Maybe a fair point for today doesn't explain how shit we where in the first 3 games though ..we could of had a weeks rest and the game would have played out the same.
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What is it about Aston Villa that has made us so far behind sides in terms of simple off the ball movement? We're 30 years behind the times in the way we play. It goes way back too. Pockets of good play aside, but never consistent, or seemingly without any forethought or grand plan, we play so rigidly. Even in better times under Gregory and O Neill, our play was pretty simple. With pube head we were very effective on counter attack, but as a possession side trying to break teams down, the movement was often poor. No small triangles, no pass and move, just a rigid 4-4-f-2. We've been the same way ever since, without an effective system and worse players.
Wolves by comparison, who weren't even that good today, coasted and every part about the way they played showed they've developed as fluid way of playing for a number of years. If a player receives the ball, another player has already anticipated the need to move and be in a position to receive the next pass. We don't do this and we've not done it for over 20 years. Frankly it's pathetic. It also highlights just why British managers have struggled for success this century and foreign coaches have become more successful. Then you look back at our meat and potatoes appointments, almost entirely predictable and uninspiring. There's a lot of intelligence in the way modern sides set up and train, but we're so far behind still. Unfortunately our choice in foreign coaches has been poor recently. There were some signs of Houllier instilling a bit more subtlety into our game, but we undid that all with the next appointment.
We've got to once again tear it all up, go back to square one and rebuild in the championship. But whoever the new manager is, needs tactical nous and an understanding of the modern game. In recent premier league times there haven't been many sides as consistently frustrating to watch as us in terms of passing and movement, in that ability to play in tight spaces. And the worst part is, we have a player like Grealish who'd absolutely excel if we could just drag ourselves out this outdated mentality.
This! Except maybe the Gregory bit, his teams' style of play swung quite a bit from dour to quite exciting at times.
But static players, ponderous passing, an inability to work clear cut chances - this is the "Villa DNA". It doesn't matter who's in the coaching team, the results are broadly the same. My unscientific opinion is that it's been this way since Bodymoor got redeveloped (under Lerner I think). I don't know what they did there, maybe they turn footballers into gym monkeys or something, but the question "what do they do in training?" pops up all too regularly.
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Without making excuses, why were we playing our 4th game before everyone else plays their 3rd? Having already played an extra game that most of the others shouldn't we have been playing our 4th a day or two after most of the others not before in order to spread the fixtures out a bit?
We've lost 19 games (so far) this season, none of them were about fixture congestion.
Wolves were poor enough today. It wasn't fatigue stopping us from being able to score a single goal against them, it was a total lack of ideas and general ability outside of the 1 or 2 obvious players.
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It was mentioned in commentary that these are chasing CL on two fronts, and that they'd be a match for anyone in Europe. And post-match, that if they were competing in any other league, they'd definitely be CL qualifiers. A front two with 30 already this season.
We, on the other hand, apparently have a mid-table Championship ability squad playing with no organisation, plan, imagination or drive.
Yet it finished 1-0, and other than the goal, our keeper barely needed another save worthy of the name.
Funny old game, innit.
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Without making excuses, why were we playing our 4th game before everyone else plays their 3rd? Having already played an extra game that most of the others shouldn't we have been playing our 4th a day or two after most of the others not before in order to spread the fixtures out a bit?
Some might argue that the extra game would show our improved fitness and sharpness.
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What is it about Aston Villa that has made us so far behind sides in terms of simple off the ball movement? We're 30 years behind the times in the way we play. It goes way back too. Pockets of good play aside, but never consistent, or seemingly without any forethought or grand plan, we play so rigidly. Even in better times under Gregory and O Neill, our play was pretty simple. With pube head we were very effective on counter attack, but as a possession side trying to break teams down, the movement was often poor. No small triangles, no pass and move, just a rigid 4-4-f-2. We've been the same way ever since, without an effective system and worse players.
Wolves by comparison, who weren't even that good today, coasted and every part about the way they played showed they've developed as fluid way of playing for a number of years. If a player receives the ball, another player has already anticipated the need to move and be in a position to receive the next pass. We don't do this and we've not done it for over 20 years. Frankly it's pathetic. It also highlights just why British managers have struggled for success this century and foreign coaches have become more successful. Then you look back at our meat and potatoes appointments, almost entirely predictable and uninspiring. There's a lot of intelligence in the way modern sides set up and train, but we're so far behind still. Unfortunately our choice in foreign coaches has been poor recently. There were some signs of Houllier instilling a bit more subtlety into our game, but we undid that all with the next appointment.
We've got to once again tear it all up, go back to square one and rebuild in the championship. But whoever the new manager is, needs tactical nous and an understanding of the modern game. In recent premier league times there haven't been many sides as consistently frustrating to watch as us in terms of passing and movement, in that ability to play in tight spaces. And the worst part is, we have a player like Grealish who'd absolutely excel if we could just drag ourselves out this outdated mentality.
For me it’s the British manager thing - there is a reason all the top clubs are managed by foreign managers - they have moved on and we are still stuck in the 70’s. There are plenty of promising managers in Germany, Spain, Argentina, France etc who’d pay their own taxi fare to B6 - do our new owners have the nous to go with their money??
I think you're absolutely spot on with that comment. Generally, British managers and coaches tend to lack intelligence, including emotional intelligence, whereas those from abroad appear streets ahead in terms of their overall ability to manage and develop. I thought it very telling that Douglas Luiz only found out the meaning of the phrase 'man on' during lockdown!
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It was mentioned in commentary that these are chasing CL on two fronts, and that they'd be a match for anyone in Europe. And post-match, that if they were competing in any other league, they'd definitely be CL qualifiers. A front two with 30 already this season.
We, on the other hand, apparently have a mid-table Championship ability squad playing with no organisation, plan, imagination or drive.
Yet it finished 1-0, and other than the goal, our keeper barely needed another save worthy of the name.
Funny old game, innit.
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
If we were having a season like Wolves , we'd be walking round with a smile like the Cheshire Cat , but unfortunately we've all got a face like a slapped arse. (I know your quote was about today's game , but it sums up my feelings about the season and the reality that today was the first nail in the coffin)
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It was mentioned in commentary that these are chasing CL on two fronts, and that they'd be a match for anyone in Europe. And post-match, that if they were competing in any other league, they'd definitely be CL qualifiers. A front two with 30 already this season.
We, on the other hand, apparently have a mid-table Championship ability squad playing with no organisation, plan, imagination or drive.
Yet it finished 1-0, and other than the goal, our keeper barely needed another save worthy of the name.
Funny old game, innit.
Well it is, but if you look at any game in isolation that can happen. It’s the fact they consistently win and we consistently lose that separates us.
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Wolves were playing in third gear with the handbrake on and still beat us. Smith moaning about the fixture pile up when they’ve racked up god knows how many more games than us so far is also embarrassing. Today was further proof that as a club, we’ve made a proper pigs ear of what was a fantastic opportunity to build something great. It’s a mess.
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Wolves were playing in third gear with the handbrake on and still beat us. Smith moaning about the fixture pile up when they’ve racked up god knows how many more games than us so far is also embarrassing. Today was further proof that as a club, we’ve made a proper pigs ear of what was a fantastic opportunity to build something great. It’s a mess.
Spot on, Des.
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They weren't, that's how the Wolves play. Very compact and organised.
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They weren't, that's how the Wolves play. Very compact and organised.
They never had to break a sweat is the point. If we had any quality at all we'd have made them work a lot harder the 3 points they walked away with at a stroll.
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Wolves were playing in third gear with the handbrake on and still beat us. Smith moaning about the fixture pile up when they’ve racked up god knows how many more games than us so far is also embarrassing. Today was further proof that as a club, we’ve made a proper pigs ear of what was a fantastic opportunity to build something great. It’s a mess.
That last sentence is absolutely bang on. Question is "what are we going to do about it?" More specifically what are our wealthy and presumably clued up owners going to do about it? They've invested massively into our football club and yet we see or hear nothing form them while the good ship Aston Villa drifts rudderless straight for the rocks.
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It was mentioned in commentary that these are chasing CL on two fronts, and that they'd be a match for anyone in Europe. And post-match, that if they were competing in any other league, they'd definitely be CL qualifiers. A front two with 30 already this season.
We, on the other hand, apparently have a mid-table Championship ability squad playing with no organisation, plan, imagination or drive.
Yet it finished 1-0, and other than the goal, our keeper barely needed another save worthy of the name.
Funny old game, innit.
Yes, I can't stop laughing.
I am in broad agreement, though.
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I can’t fault the effort and we looked pretty decent defensively limiting them to a few chances through howlers and luck, but they showed a touch of quality for the goal that we never looked like replicating.
The lack of ability in midfield starved Jack of ball in places he needed to be. Front two just didn’t look any kind of threat, nor really did I expect them to be.
I wouldn’t read too much into DSs gripes at the end, he’s obviously trying to build a siege mentality of ‘everyone’s against us’ it’s worth a try because we certainly aren’t going to get out of this soup through quality.
We just look like we don’t belong, simply little ability. Their keeper making just a single save when this was our attacking line up speaks volumes.
On a brighter note I think it’s been a long time since I would have picked the same player as MOM in four matches running. Well done Duggie.
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Every game we start with at least 2 players no where near PL standard, this time Nakamba Hourihane, last game AEG Trez.
I think you can get away with maybe1 passenger but we start with 2 which is on top of a few that are just about ok at best.
Getting 11 starters that are adequate would be a place to start and then build the system around them might be an idea.
Add to this piss poor subs and you can see why we are going down.
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2 strikers up top but zero service apart from straight long balls.Left can be forgiven as we lost Targett who while not Ashley Cole can be dangerous on the left but the right side , how did Smith plan for attacks down the right with a CB at RB and Hourihane on that side ?
We are not tactically very good and the changing of personnel and formations isn't helping but we also lack passions.Whilst no fans play's its part in this I was sent a clip of from Luton's game yesterday ( who are fighting the drop ) and they where flying into tackles and desperate to get the ball back.
We are not coached /technically good enough to play a slow build up possession game and we lack the motivation or instructions to play with more agression
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To be fair we didn’t play a slow build up, we hit it long into the front two and tried to start attacks from much higher up the pitch. Issue is the opposition crowd Jack and Connor and Nakamba lack energy and technique respectively to bolster the attack.
I’d certainly be tempted to give a couple of the youngsters some game time, a bit of energy and enthusiasm might rub off on some other players
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To be fair we didn’t play a slow build up, we hit it long into the front two and tried to start attacks from much higher up the pitch. Issue is the opposition crowd Jack and Connor and Nakamba lack energy and technique respectively to bolster the attack.
I’d certainly be tempted to give a couple of the youngsters some game time, a bit of energy and enthusiasm might rub off on some other players
It was a mixture of both , there was times we hit it long mostly from Mings but other times we just passed sideways slowly.They could sit back and get into position as we were unable to get them running towards their own goal. Our narrow mf required full backs to get forward and we couldn't do that .Konsa is a CB and Taylor is an ok defender but is extremely limited going forward.
I would definitely be looking at some of the kids now , Jota and Drinkwater on bench is a total waste of time currently why not stick some kids on there.
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To be fair we didn’t play a slow build up, we hit it long into the front two and tried to start attacks from much higher up the pitch. Issue is the opposition crowd Jack and Connor and Nakamba lack energy and technique respectively to bolster the attack.
I’d certainly be tempted to give a couple of the youngsters some game time, a bit of energy and enthusiasm might rub off on some other players
It was a mixture of both , there was times we hit it long mostly from Mings but other times we just passed sideways slowly.They could sit back and get into position as we were unable to get them running towards their own goal. Our narrow mf required full backs to get forward and we couldn't do that .Konsa is a CB and Taylor is an ok defender but is extremely limited going forward.
I would definitely be looking at some of the kids now , Jota and Drinkwater on bench is a total waste of time currently why not stick some kids on there.
I’d say exactly the same as regards blooding some of the younger players, but I reckon we’re in Eric Black territory here. We'll end up sticking with the tried and tested before we plunge over the cliff.
They can’t blame fans for possibly getting on their backs, because we ain’t there!!
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I am a big critic of Smith but you can't get away from the fact that the money we spent last year was thown away. Cannot name one player that we bought is of premiership standard
Heaton at the time and Luiz subsequently. But yes, it's slim pickings after that.
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It’s interesting to me that the victory of Watford in the league and the draw with Leicester away in the cup, were games when Vasillev was introduced, didn’t look a world beater, but gave us an energy in attack, especially against Watford that just wasn’t there before. The kid just cannot possibly offer anything less than El Ghazi, Trezeguet or Jota.
I’m not saying introducing him will keep us up, but it might just give us a spark
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Without making excuses, why were we playing our 4th game before everyone else plays their 3rd? Having already played an extra game that most of the others shouldn't we have been playing our 4th a day or two after most of the others not before in order to spread the fixtures out a bit?
Because TV rules, BT wanted our match and 12.30pm Saturday is their slot.
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It’s interesting to me that the victory of Watford in the league and the draw with Leicester away in the cup, were games when Vasillev was introduced, didn’t look a world beater, but gave us an energy in attack, especially against Watford that just wasn’t there before. The kid just cannot possibly offer anything less than El Ghazi, Trezeguet or Jota.
I’m not saying introducing him will keep us up, but it might just give us a spark
Agree, can’t see how he could contribute less than those 3.
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Wolves were playing in third gear with the handbrake on and still beat us. Smith moaning about the fixture pile up when they’ve racked up god knows how many more games than us so far is also embarrassing. Today was further proof that as a club, we’ve made a proper pigs ear of what was a fantastic opportunity to build something great. It’s a mess.
That last sentence is absolutely bang on. Question is "what are we going to do about it?" More specifically what are our wealthy and presumably clued up owners going to do about it? They've invested massively into our football club and yet we see or hear nothing form them while the good ship Aston Villa drifts rudderless straight for the rocks.
Edens comments worried me a few months ago, basically saying in interview how great the transfer strategies were at Liverpool (fair enough) and Arsenal (oh dear) and how we wanted to copy it.
Not sure if he was on about the Liverpool transfer strategy from 2014 which signed likes of Lazar Markovic and Balotelli or the more recent one that got in Van Dijk and Alisson.
I think he was a big driver before what we were doing last summer. Suso is just the public face of it and will probably be the sacrificial lamb once it's all over.
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Poor quality players compounded by an out-of-his-depth manager and mediocre coaches.
It's not Smith's fault that we went up a season too soon, or that he had John Terry foisted on him. Unfortunately, Smith himself is not good enough.
After the game yesterday, I went round to a mate's house where we watched the second half of the Leeds-Fulham game. Although it's a different league, the contrast in home-team performances could not have been starker. Leeds were aggressive, compact, quick on the break, crisp in passing and decisive in front of goal. And good to watch.
It compounded my disappointment in our game ...
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Poor quality players compounded by an out-of-his-depth manager and mediocre coaches.
It's not Smith's fault that we went up a season too soon, or that he had John Terry foisted on him. Unfortunately, Smith himself is not good enough.
After the game yesterday, I went round to a mate's house where we watched the second half of the Leeds-Fulham game. Although it's a different league, the contrast in home-team performances could not have been starker. Leeds were aggressive, compact, quick on the break, crisp in passing and decisive in front of goal. And good to watch.
It compounded my disappointment in our game ...
I'm sure we were like that last season too, as you say, different leagues and contexts. Right now we're in a dog fight in the Premier League. If we can survive - by hook or by crook - it will be job done and on to the next phase of the rebuild.
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Wolves were playing in third gear with the handbrake on and still beat us. Smith moaning about the fixture pile up when they’ve racked up god knows how many more games than us so far is also embarrassing. Today was further proof that as a club, we’ve made a proper pigs ear of what was a fantastic opportunity to build something great. It’s a mess.
That last sentence is absolutely bang on. Question is "what are we going to do about it?" More specifically what are our wealthy and presumably clued up owners going to do about it? They've invested massively into our football club and yet we see or hear nothing form them while the good ship Aston Villa drifts rudderless straight for the rocks.
Edens comments worried me a few months ago, basically saying in interview how great the transfer strategies were at Liverpool (fair enough) and Arsenal (oh dear) and how we wanted to copy it.
Not sure if he was on about the Liverpool transfer strategy from 2014 which signed likes of Lazar Markovic and Balotelli or the more recent one that got in Van Dijk and Alisson.
I think he was a big driver before what we were doing last summer. Suso is just the public face of it and will probably be the sacrificial lamb once it's all over.
Yet on all the stats based analysis that came out shortly after the Wesley transfer indicated that - based purely on numbers - he was overpriced even back then.
I don't think we used it in that deal (or if we did, we ignored the findings).
It must be remembered that Benteke looked overpriced when we signed him for £7 million as well. Twerps like Colin Murray were already announcing him as the rip off of the season in September 2012.
Sometimes you have to look beyond the raw data. A good scout (as Arthur Numan seemed to be - odd call to bin him) will be identifying players who can make the step up - even if the stats don't fully illustrate it yet.
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Following promotion last summer Purslow said we were 12 months ahead on our plans for world domination. Watching yesterday’s abysmal second half it seems that in a few weeks, if relegated, we will be back in the Premiership by August 2021 at the earliest. World domination postponed yet again.
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Smith moaning about the fixture pile up when they’ve racked up god knows how many more games than us so far is also embarrassing.
This excuse from Smith really wound me up. Wolves have played more games than anyone. If moaning about playing too many games is the best he's got then I'm not filled with confidence about him inspiring a turnaround.
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Smith moaning about the fixture pile up when they’ve racked up god knows how many more games than us so far is also embarrassing.
This excuse from Smith really wound me up. Wolves have played more games than anyone. If moaning about playing too many games is the best he's got then I'm not filled with confidence about him inspiring a turnaround.
Indeed. There's also the fact that he can make 5 subs a game to mitigate the tiredness. Also, I'm not sure that he's realised it, but playing midweek and then at the weekend is generally what the successful teams in Europe have to do.
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Smith moaning about the fixture pile up when they’ve racked up god knows how many more games than us so far is also embarrassing.
This excuse from Smith really wound me up. Wolves have played more games than anyone. If moaning about playing too many games is the best he's got then I'm not filled with confidence about him inspiring a turnaround.
Indeed. There's also the fact that he can make 5 subs a game to mitigate the tiredness. Also, I'm not sure that he's realised it, but playing midweek and then at the weekend is generally what the successful teams in Europe have to do.
Yeah, 5 subs, 2 drinks breaks aren't enough? Clearly, Dean doesn't rate some of his squad enough to change the game. He'd be right to be fair! He knew the parameters of operation restart, so perhaps the club should have moaned about the amount of games before we agreed the restart.
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He’s full of shit. Wolves started their season before us. Nuno plays a core group pretty much all the time. Do you what they don’t do? They don’t chase shadows because they don’t give the ball away constantly or have a “whack it fucking long and give it away“ tactic in their handbook.
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Following promotion last summer Purslow said we were 12 months ahead on our plans for world domination. Watching yesterday’s abysmal second half it seems that in a few weeks, if relegated, we will be back in the Premiership by August 2021 at the earliest. World domination postponed yet again.
I think that's the issue. We'd have been better served by not quite going up last year and developing the squad in the Championship. We are indeed going to be setback by a longer period.
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Following promotion last summer Purslow said we were 12 months ahead on our plans for world domination. Watching yesterday’s abysmal second half it seems that in a few weeks, if relegated, we will be back in the Premiership by August 2021 at the earliest. World domination postponed yet again.
I think that's the issue. We'd have been better served by not quite going up last year and developing the squad in the Championship. We are indeed going to be setback by a longer period.
FFP is on the phone for you!
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Following promotion last summer Purslow said we were 12 months ahead on our plans for world domination. Watching yesterday’s abysmal second half it seems that in a few weeks, if relegated, we will be back in the Premiership by August 2021 at the earliest. World domination postponed yet again.
I think that's the issue. We'd have been better served by not quite going up last year and developing the squad in the Championship. We are indeed going to be setback by a longer period.
I disagree as I think we needed to go up purely from a financial point of view. We'd have lost Grealish, McGinn and not signed Mings for starters and more pertinently may not have been rescued by our new owners. Even if we go down we'll have had a year of PL money and two years of parachute payments plus better fees if we do sell players.
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The curse of promotion strikes again.
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It’s interesting to me that the victory of Watford in the league and the draw with Leicester away in the cup, were games when Vasillev was introduced, didn’t look a world beater, but gave us an energy in attack, especially against Watford that just wasn’t there before. The kid just cannot possibly offer anything less than El Ghazi, Trezeguet or Jota.
I’m not saying introducing him will keep us up, but it might just give us a spark
Agree, can’t see how he could contribute less than those 3.
Been saying this for a while - ditto Green and RHM who apparently are now released. it would be hard to be as ineffective as AEG and especially Trezeguet. Indeed my disabled 82 year old Mother would struggle to be as ineffective as Trezeguet.
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It’s interesting to me that the victory of Watford in the league and the draw with Leicester away in the cup, were games when Vasillev was introduced, didn’t look a world beater, but gave us an energy in attack, especially against Watford that just wasn’t there before. The kid just cannot possibly offer anything less than El Ghazi, Trezeguet or Jota.
I’m not saying introducing him will keep us up, but it might just give us a spark
Agree, can’t see how he could contribute less than those 3.
Been saying this for a while - ditto Green and RHM who apparently are now released. it would be hard to be as ineffective as AEG and especially Trezeguet. Indeed my disabled 82 year old Mother would struggle to be as ineffective as Trezeguet.
Andre Green was terrible in a high pressure play off game at West Brom. I honestly think that was the night he went out of DS thoughts as being a squad option if we went up. RHM constantly injured in our championship seasons and was loaned to Derby under 23s just before lockdown e.g. not their first team.
El Ghazi I thought actually finished last season really well and was chipping in with some goals and assists up to December. He's just another incredibly inconsistant player although performances been much worse in last few months. Trez just hasn't worked out and you sell him back to Turkey.
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We desperately needed to get out of the Championship, scares the hell out of me to think we could be back there next season, problem we had when we got promoted, lack of experience in our management, a manager who believed he could try something different and survive the Premiership, he simply didn't get any Premiership experience in, even a few players at the end of there career would have made huge difference, that's whats done us, even the likes of Liverpool have relied on players like Milner to hold the line when needed, no not Smith, not the way he wanted to play it. Crazy.
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Those types of players used to PL wages would have drained us and we had a FFP line to tow.
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Following promotion last summer Purslow said we were 12 months ahead on our plans for world domination. Watching yesterday’s abysmal second half it seems that in a few weeks, if relegated, we will be back in the Premiership by August 2021 at the earliest. World domination postponed yet again.
I think that's the issue. We'd have been better served by not quite going up last year and developing the squad in the Championship. We are indeed going to be setback by a longer period.
We'd have been better served by employing a better manager and a better director of football. Sheffield United were in League 1 three years ago. I don't accept for a single second that spending our money more intelligently and replacing Smith when it was clear this job is too much for him wouldn't have seen us higher in the table.
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I disagree as I think we needed to go up purely from a financial point of view. We'd have lost Grealish, McGinn and not signed Mings for starters and more pertinently may not have been rescued by our new owners. Even if we go down we'll have had a year of PL money and two years of parachute payments plus better fees if we do sell players.
How does that work as they'd already bought us?
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Following promotion last summer Purslow said we were 12 months ahead on our plans for world domination. Watching yesterday’s abysmal second half it seems that in a few weeks, if relegated, we will be back in the Premiership by August 2021 at the earliest. World domination postponed yet again.
I think that's the issue. We'd have been better served by not quite going up last year and developing the squad in the Championship. We are indeed going to be setback by a longer period.
We'd have been better served by employing a better manager and a better director of football. Sheffield United were in League 1 three years ago. I don't accept for a single second that spending our money more intelligently and replacing Smith when it was clear this job is too much for him wouldn't have seen us higher in the table.
And they have had the benefit of a consistent squad and managerial team. They've grown together and got better together, as a unit. We've got a squad that was thrown together quickly with players unused to playing in this country/league; in my view any manager would have struggled with what Smith has had at his disposal. He's also lost players (some of the better/expensive ones) to injury too. The whole thing has been a nightmare.
Moyes and Pearson, two of the more experienced managers in this country have both failed to get much of a tune out of the squads they've inherited; why are you so convinced that anyone else would do better for us?
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I disagree as I think we needed to go up purely from a financial point of view. We'd have lost Grealish, McGinn and not signed Mings for starters and more pertinently may not have been rescued by our new owners. Even if we go down we'll have had a year of PL money and two years of parachute payments plus better fees if we do sell players.
How does that work as they'd already bought us?
Fair point, it was the summer before last. F*ck me the years are flying by! :(
On the plus side we're a year closer to World domination.
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This time next year Rodney.
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I've said this all season but am convinced having watched the matches on TV the last two weeks. Instead of breaking the bank to buy mediocrity last summer we should have broken the bank to get Tammy! At least our attacks (when they happened) had some focus and knew where the penalty box was!
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Moyes and Pearson, two of the more experienced managers in this country have both failed to get much of a tune out of the squads they've inherited; why are you so convinced that anyone else would do better for us?
Moyes has been a busted flush for years, employing him was ridiculous. As for Pearson, Watford were rock bottom on 8 points from 15 games when he took over. They're now 16th with 28 points from 32 games. For those first 15 games they took 0.53 points a game, Pearson has taken 1.17 points a game, which if replicated over a season, or indeed, the rest of this season, will probably see them stay up.
In the same time that Pearson has been manager, Villa under Smith have taken 12 points from 17 games, or 0.71 points per game. Form that will almost certainly see us relegated.
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This time next year Rodney.
;D As long as you don't call me Dave.
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We desperately needed to get out of the Championship, scares the hell out of me to think we could be back there next season, problem we had when we got promoted, lack of experience in our management, a manager who believed he could try something different and survive the Premiership, he simply didn't get any Premiership experience in, even a few players at the end of there career would have made huge difference, that's whats done us, even the likes of Liverpool have relied on players like Milner to hold the line when needed, no not Smith, not the way he wanted to play it. Crazy.
Again, not sure it's fair to land the buck squarely at Smith's feet, I seem to remember Purslow discussing the club's policy of lowering the age of the squad.
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I've said this all season but am convinced having watched the matches on TV the last two weeks. Instead of breaking the bank to buy mediocrity last summer we should have broken the bank to get Tammy! At least our attacks (when they happened) had some focus and knew where the penalty box was!
He wasn't for sale.
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I've said this all season but am convinced having watched the matches on TV the last two weeks. Instead of breaking the bank to buy mediocrity last summer we should have broken the bank to get Tammy! At least our attacks (when they happened) had some focus and knew where the penalty box was!
Chelsea’s transfer ban meant that Tammy wasn’t for sale last year, for any price.
Had Chelsea been allowed to buy a new striker I genuinely think they’d have sold Tammy to us and we wouldn’t be in quite the mess we now are.
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it's not looking good for us another defeat with Liverpool and Man Utd our next two games I don't know were our next point will come from.
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it's not looking good for us another defeat with Liverpool and Man Utd our next two games I don't know were our next point will come from.
The way things are going?
Probably at home to Charlton.
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We desperately needed to get out of the Championship, scares the hell out of me to think we could be back there next season, problem we had when we got promoted, lack of experience in our management, a manager who believed he could try something different and survive the Premiership, he simply didn't get any Premiership experience in, even a few players at the end of there career would have made huge difference, that's whats done us, even the likes of Liverpool have relied on players like Milner to hold the line when needed, no not Smith, not the way he wanted to play it. Crazy.
Again, not sure it's fair to land the buck squarely at Smith's feet, I seem to remember Purslow discussing the club's policy of lowering the age of the squad.
The same with Suso as well , he is taking peltors for the purchasing but we don't know his remit. If Purslow has dictated players need to be of certain age and certain wage he can only find from that category.
What we do know 100% is Purslow was against loans and to me given how thin the squad was and the budget we had for 10 or so players we should of used the loan market in the Summer. We are compared to Fulham and whilst it's unfair to a degree ( they choose to build a whole new team and not use more of the team promoted , we simply had no team left ) we made same mistake of buying untested players. In Jan they brought in experienced Ryan Babble in his 30's and he ended up being one of the better buys.
We played the long game and negated the short term and if we go down we will almost be starting again and I guarantee in championship we go back to having to loan players ( as we already had to this Jan) Purslow has alot to answer for
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it's not looking good for us another defeat with Liverpool and Man Utd our next two games I don't know were our next point will come from.
The way things are going?
Probably at home to Charlton.
Ha! You're forgetting our first game of next season, Fleetwood away.
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We are a Championship standard team coached by a Championship standard coach. Next season I suspect we will have found our level.
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Moyes and Pearson, two of the more experienced managers in this country have both failed to get much of a tune out of the squads they've inherited; why are you so convinced that anyone else would do better for us?
Moyes has been a busted flush for years, employing him was ridiculous. As for Pearson, Watford were rock bottom on 8 points from 15 games when he took over. They're now 16th with 28 points from 32 games. For those first 15 games they took 0.53 points a game, Pearson has taken 1.17 points a game, which if replicated over a season, or indeed, the rest of this season, will probably see them stay up.
In the same time that Pearson has been manager, Villa under Smith have taken 12 points from 17 games, or 0.71 points per game. Form that will almost certainly see us relegated.
That doesnt tell the full picture though does it?. Watford had the well versed new manager bounce’ but have since won 1 game in 10, there form is awful. And although many months ago, they were awful at villa park in January under Pearson and even though we had to wait till the last minute we were the much better side.
They may stay up and we may go down, but the idea that appointing Pearson has been some sort of stroke of genius or the kind of brave decision that villa haven’t taken, is just not panning out.
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Moyes and Pearson, two of the more experienced managers in this country have both failed to get much of a tune out of the squads they've inherited; why are you so convinced that anyone else would do better for us?
Moyes has been a busted flush for years, employing him was ridiculous. As for Pearson, Watford were rock bottom on 8 points from 15 games when he took over. They're now 16th with 28 points from 32 games. For those first 15 games they took 0.53 points a game, Pearson has taken 1.17 points a game, which if replicated over a season, or indeed, the rest of this season, will probably see them stay up.
In the same time that Pearson has been manager, Villa under Smith have taken 12 points from 17 games, or 0.71 points per game. Form that will almost certainly see us relegated.
That doesnt tell the full picture though does it?. Watford had the well versed new manager bounce’ but have since won 1 game in 10, there form is awful. And although many months ago, they were awful at villa park in January under Pearson and even though we had to wait till the last minute we were the much better side.
They may stay up and we may go down, but the idea that appointing Pearson has been some sort of stroke of genius or the kind of brave decision that villa haven’t taken, is just not panning out.
Top quoting
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it's not looking good for us another defeat with Liverpool and Man Utd our next two games I don't know were our next point will come from.
The way things are going?
Probably at home to Charlton.
Ha! You're forgetting our first game of next season, Fleetwood away.
You honestly think we’re getting a point from that one?
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Every Wolves fan I have spoken to since Saturday has metaphorically patted me on the back in patronising/condescending terms about how we weren't that bad and we played OK. I think I'd rather have them take the p**s than pity us, to be honest. Bar Stewards.
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In truth both teams were poor. They just took their half chance when it came along while ours never came along.
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We are a Championship standard team coached by a Championship standard coach. Next season I suspect we will have found our level.
the problem is, we will need to be better than that level.
With the current set up I don’t think we will be.
I wonder how excited the owners will be about Division 2.
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We are a Championship standard team coached by a Championship standard coach. Next season I suspect we will have found our level.
the problem is, we will need to be better than that level.
With the current set up I don’t think we will be.
I wonder how excited the owners will be about Division 2.
They bought us whilst we weren't doing great down there. And they know we're currently ahead of the plan, so whilst nobody may be excited, they'll not exactly be shocked.
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We are a Championship standard team coached by a Championship standard coach. Next season I suspect we will have found our level.
the problem is, we will need to be better than that level.
With the current set up I don’t think we will be.
I wonder how excited the owners will be about Division 2.
They bought us whilst we weren't doing great down there. And they know we're currently ahead of the plan, so whilst nobody may be excited, they'll not exactly be shocked.
I think CL was ironically referring to the 4th tier, Drummond.
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We are a Championship standard team coached by a Championship standard coach. Next season I suspect we will have found our level.
the problem is, we will need to be better than that level.
With the current set up I don’t think we will be.
I wonder how excited the owners will be about Division 2.
They bought us whilst we weren't doing great down there. And they know we're currently ahead of the plan, so whilst nobody may be excited, they'll not exactly be shocked.
I think CL was ironically referring to the 4th tier, Drummond.
Well, I missed the irony, funny that.
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We are a Championship standard team coached by a Championship standard coach. Next season I suspect we will have found our level.
the problem is, we will need to be better than that level.
With the current set up I don’t think we will be.
I wonder how excited the owners will be about Division 2.
They bought us whilst we weren't doing great down there. And they know we're currently ahead of the plan, so whilst nobody may be excited, they'll not exactly be shocked.
I think CL was ironically referring to the 4th tier, Drummond.
I was referring to EFL, someone will have to talk me through how ending up back where they started is ahead of plan.
Oh yeh, having lost our 3 best players.
Nonsense
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We are a Championship standard team coached by a Championship standard coach. Next season I suspect we will have found our level.
the problem is, we will need to be better than that level.
With the current set up I don’t think we will be.
I wonder how excited the owners will be about Division 2.
They bought us whilst we weren't doing great down there. And they know we're currently ahead of the plan, so whilst nobody may be excited, they'll not exactly be shocked.
I think CL was ironically referring to the 4th tier, Drummond.
I was referring to EFL, someone will have to talk me through how ending up back where they started is ahead of plan.
Oh yeh, having lost our 3 best players.
Nonsense
They weren't expecting to be where we are now. The expectation was another season in the Championship. Therefore we're ahead of the plan. What happens after this season is where we may fall behind the plan. i.e. If we're relegated.
Is that clear enough?
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Having gone up, the plan resets. The message from everybody wasn't "we've gone up ahead of time, so let's just enjoy ourselves for a year and if we go down, so be it." The message very clearly was, "we're back, and we're going to compete well in the Premier League." We haven't, at all.
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We are a Championship standard team coached by a Championship standard coach. Next season I suspect we will have found our level.
the problem is, we will need to be better than that level.
With the current set up I don’t think we will be.
I wonder how excited the owners will be about Division 2.
They bought us whilst we weren't doing great down there. And they know we're currently ahead of the plan, so whilst nobody may be excited, they'll not exactly be shocked.
I think CL was ironically referring to the 4th tier, Drummond.
I was referring to EFL, someone will have to talk me through how ending up back where they started is ahead of plan.
Oh yeh, having lost our 3 best players.
Nonsense
They weren't expecting to be where we are now. The expectation was another season in the Championship. Therefore we're ahead of the plan. What happens after this season is where we may fall behind the plan. i.e. If we're relegated.
Is that clear enough?
On the basis we should have stayed down last season and got promoted this season.
So you agree that being back in the second division next season would put us a year behind the plan. Clear enough for you?