Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 06:11:28 PM
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Bollocks
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Grim.
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What a load of spineless, insipid rubbish. Dean Smith hasn't got a clue.
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Pathetic set up by Smith. Abject surrender.
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Wank.
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Did better than I expected, I predicted 1-4. Smith is hopeless.
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Cowards.
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Very passive and negative. Too many passengers in McGinn and Hourihane, with such poor aggression and ball retention.
Massively disappointing performance and result.
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Big Sam strokes his chin and casually looks up to make sure his mobile is switched on.
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Bed time.
Not a single plus point.
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Absolute dog shit.
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Goodbye Premier League. It wasn't as nice as I thought it was going to be.
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It's going to take some effort to turn this around after a game like that. If anything we look less bothered than we were pre Covid.
It was the dread of afternoons like this that set me against the restart.
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we all predicted that at half time
predicted the subs
Predicted the result
Predicted the performance
We are the most predictable team with the most predictable manager in this league
(I’m all predictabled out now )
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No leadership, from anywhere.
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Big Sam strokes his chin and casually looks up to make sure his mobile is switched on.
It's too late for that now, I'm afraid.
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Turd performance from turd players and turd coaching from turd coaches.
Turd.
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no more of Davis adulation please - like the restof these shitheads he's useless. Should have binned Smith at Christmas. At the least the Coventry derby next season will be tasty.
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Get rid of Smith.
How many more times do we get to watch him stand there, as things are quite clearly showing no sign of working, and do nothing?
1 point from 6 in the two games so far, both at home.
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Piss poor. Yes, a lot of our players are mediocre at this level but our biggest problem by far is the manager. He's been inept most of the season and in that time has done nothing at all to suggest that he's got what it takes to be a Premier League manager. Nothing. No flair, no innovation, no flexibility, no impact.
Picking Davis to start these two games was a colossal brainfart. The kid never scores.
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Luiz only bright spot
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I am sure Dean Smith will blame something or someone other than himself.
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Who can bring us back up?
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Pretty grim stuff that. To offer so little going forward just isn’t good enough. We just have to get the likes of Luiz, McGinn, Jack, and whoever is up front in the game more.
Really poor game management for their goals as well. The first, we were constantly failing to stop crosses and the second we didn’t switch on.
I only saw the second half, but I thought Konsa really struggled.
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We can’t really knock Arsenal after that shit show. Are our players and staff that bothered we are going down?
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The only bit of fight was in the last minute when Jack lost his rag having been tripped over by Cunte for the 20th time of the match (consolatory yellow given).
I'm afraid that, at this moment, the team doesn't have any redeeming qualities. Poor all over the park. No threat, leaky defence.
We will go down this season and have to start all over again.
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We go again
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Who can bring us back up?
Jack, SJM and Mings could.
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Even when we were one up at half time, you knew how this was going to end up. We just look out of our depth against teams who can keep the ball. Can’t see anyway out of this unfortunately.
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We are down. Totally outclassed today. The gulf between the two teams was massive. I’m not even sure that we looked like a decent championship side. And I’m usually one of the more positive posters.
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Attack v Defence training session from start to finish. We’re down and yet another rebuild is on the cards. Is it too much to ask to have an average top flight team? Utter garbage from players and back room staff.
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The only bit of fight was in the last minute when Jack lost his rag having been tripped over by Cunte for the 20th time of the match (consolatory yellow given).
If it hadn't been for Jack getting fouled all the time we'd have created nothing.
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We really don't have any belief against top 6/7 teams do we? Yes we were mauled in first half but plenty of teams take undeserved leads and then find a way to close out a 1-0, Newcastle have made it an art form and they've got a similar standard team (and manager) to what we have.
Really disappointinf from the manager again. I think Nakamba is bang average but he's a defensive midfielder so surely you get him on the pitch at 1-0 up? Or when Chelsea make two attacking changes 10 minutes into second half? Instead Dean sits on his hands having his annual zoom call with Terry and O'Kelly and by the time we finally get round to the change we're 1-2 down and it's a wasted sub.
Yeah we're just not good enough for this level. From losing 2-1 at Chelsea in early December to today we've lost 11 out of 16 premier league matches.
Cardiff had a similar game v Chelsea at the back end of last season. Were 1 up and lost that 2-1 so rather than doing a Fulham we seem to be following their path more.
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Not a single Villa player marking for their second goal. All the conference calls worked wonders for the defenders but we forgot to tell the midfield that they also have to mark too. Where was the desire to push for the equaliser? We were so far off the pace that Chelsea simply picked us off. Douglas Luiz played well I thought but the rest of the midfield were poor. No point getting rid of Dean Smith now as the only people who will want it are mercenries who will want out when we go down. An awful watch, clueless from the management team.
The thing that grips my shit, Chelsea have not won away in 2020. If you need some form, a centre forward out of touch, not won a game for months, wait til you play the Villa, it'll be Christmas.
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Jack looked to me like a player who has already checked out.
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The usual crud served up by our utter spineless wankers.
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Who can bring us back up?
Jack, SJM and Mings could.
No they won't. They'll be long gone.
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Awful.
Smith needs to improve very quickly or go.
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Very passive and negative. Too many passengers in McGinn and Hourihane, with such poor aggression and ball retention.
Massively disappointing performance and result.
Yep passive and negative sums it up well. McGinn really needs to get up to speed fast. We need to bloody compete, not to hope we’ll nick a goal and cling on.
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Jack looked to me like a player who has already checked out.
A few others did too. Pretty tough on the fringe players when the so called leaders of the side offer nothing of the sort.
That intensity would have been ok for a pre season friendly.
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The number of games we’ve lost from winning positions. If we’d even ground out a couple of draws from those matches.
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Smith out. I'm sick to death of this fucking incompetent idiot being involved in anything football related that involves us.
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We have a massive inferiority complex.
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Eight matches left.
We're not out of it mathematically, not by a long way, but we are with this manager.
Eight matches to try and salvage it or to just limply stand and watch it all slip away like Smith does.
This is the absolute last point at which it could work for us, because all the pointers so far are that we're getting pretty much a continuation of the last games before the season was stopped.
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That performance was an epitome of a team destined to be relegated. I understand skill and ability wise we are shit but we should have energy zest and desire.
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Get rid of Smith.
How many more times do we get to watch him stand there, as things are quite clearly showing no sign of working, and do nothing?
To be fair, the Brentford fans did warn us.
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We have a shocking team other than Jack and Mings. (McGinn doesn't look fit)
Can anyone see us picking points up from anywhere the rest of the season?
All of our new signings have been awful and the manager should have gone in January for his tactics.
I know there's only a point in it but we need two points and rely on West Ham and Bournemouth to keep losing.
Grim to say the least.
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Luiz only bright spot
Yep he’s the only player to have played genuinely well in both games.
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Who can bring us back up?
Jack, SJM and Mings could.
No they won't. They'll be long gone.
That was kind of my point. The three players who towered over the rest of the division last season won't be there to do it again.
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Awful.
Smith needs to improve very quickly or go.
LOL what? Sorry mate, but that's just not happening at all.
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Luiz been our best player in both 2 matches in my opinion. All due to his defensive work. Speaks volumes.
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Dire. We looked leagues apart from a Chelsea side that really isn't all that great. Some players completely hid. The midfield was entirely anonymous. I give McGinn a let off given he's coming back from a long term injury. He's been rushed back too soon and that's clear as day. He's way off pace, but what other options do we have? Hourihane was awful. Luiz wasn't afforded the luxury of time and space like he was against an awful Sheffied Utd side and went missing.
I give Targett credit because he seemed to be working very hard, and getting left isolated at the back when defending. He put in a shift and looked dead by the end. He's bang average but at least he tried.
Jack was way off pace. Flat footed, second to everything and aside from winning freekicks did absolutely nothing today. Has his head gone? As a captain he's not rousing the troops. The only one who usually does is Mings but even Tyrone doesn't seem to have the fire at the moment. Hause played okay.
As for Smith, his standard failings are there for all to see. Invite pressure and you know what'll happen. Chelsea by contrast, were always pressing our defenders high up the pitch when they had the ball. We're a piss poor side who can't string 5 passes together. Only Norwich look shitter than us. Yet Chelsea still pressed us. So we're playing a good side...why not press them and pressure them? The only times we got on front foot (rarely) came from pressing. Fucking press! I know it exhausts players a little, but we didn't do it from minute 1, to 95 for any length of time and Chelsea might as well have camped in our defensive third. There will only ever be one outcome. We went behind, we still sat back.
The fact Chelsea didn't go and absolutely batter us shows their own failings and why they're miles off being good enough to push City/Liverpool next season.
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A brief flicker of hope going in front but it was massively against the run of play and out of kilter with the rest of the game. In truth, we barely competed despite only losing 2-1.
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Massive gulf in quality today, needed fresh legs earlier today after spending most of the game chasing the ball.
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We have a massive inferiority complex.
Of course we do. We've been garbage for years.
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If the tactics were right today, then that was the wrong lineup.
If the lineup was right, then those were the wrong tactics.
Can't find any straws to clutch at after this one. It's not even like it was a good team, was Frank Lampard's Chelsea (tm), eminently beatable.
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Awful.
Smith needs to improve very quickly or go.
LOL what? Sorry mate, but that's just not happening at all.
I think we have already gone past go. Next thing for him is to collect relegation card.
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I honestly can't see us winning another game.
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I firmly believe we missed the bus by not replacing Smith at Christmas, we then followed it up by not getting rid at the onset of lockdown. Premier Leage football is non-forgiving, make a mistake, however minimal; you pay the price, and our owners plus CEO have erred big time. Just my opinion.
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We were very lucky to go in a goal up at half time.
We were being over run, any manager with a clue would do something to help the team out.
He did absolutely nothing and the inevitable happened.
It’s been the same all season, he should have gone after Southampton at home then Watford away.
Look at the league form since then.
We are down.
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For the first time ever I just thought of Allardyce and didn't recoil in horror.
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I honestly believe last year’s team would beat this years. It may sound ridiculous but I really think they would. We don’t carry a threat whatsoever.
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To make no formation change with 20 mins to go in our current predicament makes my blood boil. Why not switch to 4-4-2 with Jack playing off Samatta to give the lad some help and at least have a go. The midfield today apart from Luiz was truly woeful. The amount of time Chelsea had a spare player moving into space to receive the ball compared to our options when we had point to the standard of the coaching. Also playing narrow at the back made it so easy for the Chelsea Wing Backs and yet we do nothing to change it and eventually it told. I love Dean for getting us promoted but his tactics and Suso's sub-standard recruitment should see the end of both.
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I can tell you now he’s going to blame the fact that the league allowed five subs and ‘you only have to look at their bench to see the difference.’ Or words to that effect. Overlooking our £140m bric a brac purchases.
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At this point I'd bin him whether we stay up or go down. We can do a lot better than him.
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I firmly believe we missed the bus by not replacing Smith at Christmas, we then followed it up by not getting rid at the onset of lockdown. Premier Leage football is non-forgiving, make a mistake, however minimal; you pay the price, and our owners plus CEO have erred big time. Just my opinion.
My thoughts too. The League cup final really cursed us to be honest. And all for nought in the end. It made Smith unsackable, and it gave us extra games we could have done without. No manager is going to get sacked before the season ends. Every manager will be seeing the season out for better or worse, and regardless, with 8 games left, it's too late anyway. Unless we beat a top half side, we can't escape. And we're probably going to have to do it 2-3 times (and win the more 'winnable' games...)
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We really need to start turning 'respectable defeats' into points. Not good enough today.
Also, referees need to enforce better distancing rules for Jack, absolutely absurd today as ever.
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We weren't ready to come up and still weren't ready after spending £130m. Smith is out of his depth, and only really got us up on the back of Grealish and to a lesser extent MgGinn, Abrahams and Mings. He won't get us back up next year without that lot. No chance. Time to get rid and have one last shot at staying up with a new manager bounce. Might even be worth giving big Sam a go just for the rest of the season. At least we'd show some fight and spirit.
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I realise now what a nice break it’s been without villa regularly ruining my day. Schrodinger’s relegation.
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For the first time ever I just thought of Allardyce and didn't recoil in horror.
I'd take him now no problem. Spare me the eye bleeding football comments because what I saw today was worse by a long way than anything one of his teams as ever thrown together. Dean Smith is very much in Remi Garde/Black/McLeish territory.
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I honestly can't see us winning another game.
No not if we play like that. We have to carry a threat and have an intent to hurt teams. We go onto games waving the white flag and we’ll get what we got today.
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Jack looked to me like a player who has already checked out.
I said Wednesday night, he reminds me of Ashley Young when he was half out the door.
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We really need to start turning 'respectable defeats' into points. Not good enough today.
Also, referee's need to enforce better distancing rules for Jack, absolutely absurd today as ever.
We're not going to though Monty, sadly. Dean just doesn't know how to protect a lead or grab a game by the scruff of the neck and get back into it.
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it's always so predictable. 1 good run in, what, 7 years? probably would have been easier to be relegated on ppg
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That was a Steve Bruce performance, keep bodies behind the ball and try to nick a goal !
Chelsea were nothing special, but we allowed them to look like Barcelona.
Sadly, the blames lies entirely at Smith's door.
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I had a bet on a Chelsea win at HT - That's how confident in Dean Smith I was. Any glimmer of nervousness at my decision was eradicated the second he replaced Keinan Davis with Ally Samatta.
If this manager wasn't 'Dean Smith, One of our own', he'd have been hooked months ago. Even with the diehard Smith supporters, he's surely ran out of golden passes now?
The most frustrating thing is that our voices can't be heard - With the whole closed doors thing, we can't even vent our frustrations at the manager, chairman, players!
We're going down with a whimper... actually 'whimper' is probably too strong a word.
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Just an idea, but maybe we should try tackling the opposition once in a while. It's embarrassing watching us just stand off teams and let them jog around passing between us.
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I honestly believe last year’s team would beat this years. It may sound ridiculous but I really think they would. We don’t carry a threat whatsoever.
Excellent points Des and fully agree.
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I just wish we’d have a bloody go. Two up top, high press, get in faces. We are the polar opposite of a team fighting for their lives right now.
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For the first time ever I just thought of Allardyce and didn't recoil in horror.
I'd take him now no problem. Spare me the eye bleeding football comments because what I saw today was worse by a long way than anything one of his teams as ever thrown together. Dean Smith is very much in Remi Garde/Black/McLeish territory.
Yep agreed. We’re down with a whimper. Smith is a rubbish manager, surely he won’t start next season. A good outcome at this point is having someone decent for the last few games and the small window between seasons, so that we don’t waste next season getting our shit together.
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Smith is out of his depth , I have no clue how he watches that first 45 and can't see the MF are getting over run and Jack can't get on the ball and yet makes no changes.The first change just to change the lone striker , how the fuck was that going to help the no functioning mf?
How did Chelsea always have a man spare wide , Shef United did the same to us in the away game constant threat wide where we looked like we were down a man.
Overall most of the game involved us sitting back and hitting long balls into the channels if you had been stuck in a cave for the last 18months you would think Bruce was still the manager with those tactics
Newcastle now massive game its simply must win
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He should have gone months ago. Poor recruitment and a manager out of his depth.
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They had 74% possession and 24 shots, 5 on target. I remember a long period before the break where we routinely conceded c. 20 shots per game. How is this possible?
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That was a Steve Bruce performance, keep bodies behind the ball and try to nick a goal !
Chelsea were nothing special, but we allowed them to look like Barcelona.
Sadly, the blames lies entirely at Smith's door.
Except Steve Bruce would've executed that tactic much better.
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Looks like 2 from 3 for me. Us, West Ham and Bournemouth look equally as bad as each other so maybe we’ll catch a break somewhere that will keep us up.
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Looks like 2 from 3 for me. Us, West Ham and Bournemouth look equally as bad as each other so maybe we’ll catch a break somewhere that will keep us up.
If you look at the 3 managers in that list..... Smith , Moyes and Eddie Howe, who would you say would be your last pick? That shows how desperate we are. :(
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We really need to start turning 'respectable defeats' into points. Not good enough today.
Also, referee's need to enforce better distancing rules for Jack, absolutely absurd today as ever.
We're not going to though Monty, sadly. Dean just doesn't know how to protect a lead or grab a game by the scruff of the neck and get back into it.
No I agree, we were just so passive and without plans or pre-rehearsed moves or thought-through game management. It was like watching the tight-as-fuck big band from that Whiplash movie against a bunch of sixth formers 'free-improvving' a concept album.
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Looks like 2 from 3 for me. Us, West Ham and Bournemouth look equally as bad as each other so maybe we’ll catch a break somewhere that will keep us up.
If you look at the 3 managers in that list..... Smith , Moyes and Eddie Howe, who would you say would be your last pick? That shows how desperate we are. :(
I’d say the lack of home support hasn’t helped us at all either.
I’m straw clutching but I’m hoping it works in our favour on the road.
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We could do with that evil bastard music teacher managing us Monty.
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Our only hope is if Bournemouth and spam throw in such terrible performances we scrape through and stay up with an insanely low points total AND manage to put in the kind of gutsy performance against spam that is probably beyond us.
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We could do with that evil bastard music teacher managing us Monty.
Too fucking right. 'Not quite my tempo.'
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I am beginning to think that the players do not believe in the formation/tactics that Smith is asking of them. They appear to be going through the motion half heartedly with no desire.
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We have to try to win games, rather than try not to lose them. That’d be a start.
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Our only hope is if Bournemouth and spam throw in such terrible performances we scrape through and stay up with an insanely low points total AND manage to put in the kind of gutsy performance against spam that is probably beyond us.
Looking at the Bournemouth fixture list I’d say it’s between us and Spam for that last relegation spot.
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We set out our stall and could not hold out
Chelsea are a top four team and we are not.
Willian destroyed us at Stamford Bridge and we had no answer on the left again
if we stay up or go down it will not be because of this game, the nett cost of that Chelsea team and their bench against ours must be mind boggling and it showed.
We need to win the winnable games and stay up.
Pause and reset.
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Anyone pining for those times when you could just grab a big Toblerone and watch
" The Wire" for the 40th time over a whole weekend and all you'd have to worry about was the corruption in Baltimore and the troubles of Jimmy McNulty and Bunk?
Safe that ,in no way would it be possible, for the Villa to ruin it.
I know I do.
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It's a bit of a mystery how he's persisted with a risk-averse strategy for almost all of the season and yet have the worst defence in the division.
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It was like watching the tight-as-fuck big band from that Whiplash movie against a bunch of sixth formers 'free-improvving' a concept album.
It was like the Godfather parts 1&2 against Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
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We set out our stall and could not hold out
Chelsea are a top four team and we are not.
Willian destroyed us at Stamford Bridge and we had no answer on the left again
if we stay up or go down it will not be because of this game, the nett cost of that Chelsea team and their bench against ours must be mind boggling and it showed.
We need to win the winnable games and stay up.
Pause and reset.
Nope that’s too easy. We cannot surrender any games.
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We're not good enough to compete with the likes of Chelsea. Look at the quality of their bench & ours. We looked like what we are a championship side.
The problems started with the bang average recruitment in the summer & complete lack of a goalscorer. The exact same mistakes we made in the year we got relegated. Add in poor game management.
Nyland, Hause, Konsa, Hourihane, Davies, El Ghazi, Trezeguet, Guilbert, Nakamba, Jota, Samata, Wesley & Engles are all Championship players. We'll be a good side next season.
Mings, Luis, McGinn & Grealish will be gone & the management team with them.
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We have multi billionaire owners and a CEO that comes across very well, We have a manager that supports and gets the the club and looked to be one of the better young progressive managers in the Country when we appointed him and we have a once in a generation talent as captain that has come through our youth acadamy and supports the club.
How the fuck has it turned so lethargic and flat with those ingredients?
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Another depressing day, once they got the 2nd, apart from efforts from Hause and Jota, never looked like scoring. If we're gonna survive we need at least one of Grealish or McGinn to be at their best and today both were nowhere near that. McGinn once again way off the pace and Jack's body language looked poor, he just looked totally fed up.
To have any chance of stopping up, need to beat both Newcastle and Wolves and after today's display can't see that happening.
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We have multi billionaire owners and a CEO that comes across very well, We have a manager that supports and gets the the club and looked to be one of the better young progressive managers in the Country when we appointed him and we have a once in a generation talent as captain that has come through our youth acadamy and supports the club.
How the fuck has it turned so lethargic and flat with those ingredients?
Well for one thing we've learned that supporting and 'getting the club' make no difference whatsoever.
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I can't believe that the owners are happy with this either.
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There was more intensity from the piped in music than anything the Villa players produced today. Embarrassing really on the pitch and on the sideline. We looked a disorganised rabble from the start, defending far too deep against the pace of Giroud, midfield practically sitting on top of back four and 20 yards plus then to Davis.
At a minimum Smith simply had to change our shape at half time. Failure to do so meant Chelsea would inevitably score and they cruised to victory. Same nonsensical like for like subs. End of the road for Smith today as that can't continue. Grealish's body language as captain was dreadful but hard to blame him at times.
Nyland 6 - nearly threw one in but that aside made a couple of solid saves and took a few crosses.
Konsa 5 - ok in first half but poor in second, somewhat lucky that Chelsea directed nearly every attack down our left. Ambition and ability on the ball Cuellar-esque
Hause 7 - scored and solid defensively. Inability to kick the ball with his right foot doesn't exactly help ball retention.
Mings 7 - solid enough, against I thought a dreadful Giroud, one brilliant block with his head in first half
Targett 4 - improved a lot in second half but first half was embarrassing. So slow and physically weak, identified as a weak link and targeted ruthlessly
McGinn 3 - poor effort with a good chance in first half but that aside there wasn't a positive contribution, miles simply miles off the pace
Luiz 6 - very good first half and excellent assist. Poor for their winner and died away in second half
Hourihane 3 - pace too much for Houri at this level, the ease in which Mount got away from him in first half was pathetic
AEG 5 - probably our best defender on left flank in first half so can't fault his effort. Not strong enough in possession though
Grealish 4 - did well for our goal but absymal effort to try and defend the cross for their equaliser. Body language dreadful throughout and didn't work hard enough.
Davis 5 - Ronaldo at his peak would have struggled to make an impact in the role Davis was asked to perform today. Seemed to lose faith the longer it went on and his hold up play wasn't as sharp as it needed to be
Nakamba was the best of our subs I thought, Jota came close to scoring but lightweight and ineffective would sum up their collective impact.
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Smith would have been sacked after the Chelsea game before the lockdown. I think there's zero chance of him going now.
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For the first time ever I just thought of Allardyce and didn't recoil in horror.
I'd take him now no problem. Spare me the eye bleeding football comments because what I saw today was worse by a long way than anything one of his teams as ever thrown together. Dean Smith is very much in Remi Garde/Black/McLeish territory.
Yep agreed. We’re down with a whimper. Smith is a rubbish manager, surely he won’t start next season. A good outcome at this point is having someone decent for the last few games and the small window between seasons, so that we don’t waste next season getting our shit together.
if you keep on appointing British managers with their stuck in the mud style tactics
ie Lambert, McCliesh, Bruce and now Smith things will never change
don’t keep on repeating the mistakes of the past
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FAT SAM in NOW sort it out Purslow
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Smith would have been sacked after the Chelsea game before the lockdown. I think there's zero chance of him going now.
If we do nothing we are down
How about put JT in charge for the remaining 8 games? Desperate times but desperate measures are needed. I don’t think it can get any worse. Terry might command a bit of respect from the players
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There was more intensity from the piped in music than anything the Villa players produced today. Embarrassing really on the pitch and on the sideline. We looked a disorganised rabble from the start, defending far too deep against the pace of Giroud, midfield practically sitting on top of back four and 20 yards plus then to Davis.
At a minimum Smith simply had to change our shape at half time. Failure to do so meant Chelsea would inevitably score and they cruised to victory. Same nonsensical like for like subs. End of the road for Smith today as that can't continue. Grealish's body language as captain was dreadful but hard to blame him at times.
Nyland 6 - nearly threw one in but that aside made a couple of solid saves and took a few crosses.
Konsa 5 - ok in first half but poor in second, somewhat lucky that Chelsea directed nearly every attack down our left. Ambition and ability on the ball Cuellar-esque
Hause 7 - scored and solid defensively. Inability to kick the ball with his right foot doesn't exactly help ball retention.
Mings 7 - solid enough, against I thought a dreadful Giroud, one brilliant block with his head in first half
Targett 4 - improved a lot in second half but first half was embarrassing. So slow and physically weak, identified as a weak link and targeted ruthlessly
McGinn 3 - poor effort with a good chance in first half but that aside there wasn't a positive contribution, miles simply miles off the pace
Luiz 6 - very good first half and excellent assist. Poor for their winner and died away in second half
Hourihane 3 - pace too much for Houri at this level, the ease in which Mount got away from him in first half was pathetic
AEG 5 - probably our best defender on left flank in first half so can't fault his effort. Not strong enough in possession though
Grealish 4 - did well for our goal but absymal effort to try and defend the cross for their equaliser. Body language dreadful throughout and didn't work hard enough.
Davis 5 - Ronaldo at his peak would have struggled to make an impact in the role Davis was asked to perform today. Seemed to lose faith the longer it went on and his hold up play wasn't as sharp as it needed to be
Nakamba was the best of our subs I thought, Jota came close to scoring but lightweight and ineffective would sum up their collective impact.
Grealish is clearly frustrated , he hardly gets on the ball as most of our play was lumps down the park from Mings.When he did get on the ball he was fouled.
Nakamba simply had to be brought on earlier , McGinn and Houriane were both so poor.
Davis was left holding up the ball for no one as no one was anywhere near him to lay it off too.
Newcastle a massive game now but this game physically would have taken alot out of us as we spent all game chasing the ball
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I had to laugh when Alan Smith said Chelsea had had to work hard for the result. Not sure what game he’d been watching.
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They had 74% possession and 24 shots, 5 on target. I remember a long period before the break where we routinely conceded c. 20 shots per game. How is this possible?
Not loads better, but they had 19 shots according to BBC.
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Was out for Father's Day, depressing thing was after checking the beeb at HT and seeing we were winning, I didn't even get excited as I knew there was zero chance we'd hold on to win. In my head I thought 'I'd snap your hand off for a point', but just like against Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal et al, we aren't even good enough to do that from a leading position.
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They had 74% possession and 24 shots, 5 on target. I remember a long period before the break where we routinely conceded c. 20 shots per game. How is this possible?
Not loads better, but they had 19 shots according to BBC.
You're quite right, apologies.
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We were a few inches away from a great afternoon. If Jota's punt had gone in would we be all saying there is hope ?
I agree the problem is the manager though but looking at just the maths of it, there is still hope. Bournemouth and West Ham are in as bad a run as we are. Anyone who can nick a win in the next 2 games could still get themselves out of it.
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We are still in with a sniff but that was a disappointing performance.
It was very weak. It was very passive.
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Not sure how changing managers works in this reset
I would have gone for it before lockdown, mayb
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Massive gulf in quality today, needed fresh legs earlier today after spending most of the game chasing the ball.
Lampard did us a favour with him team selection today aswell. Giroud was laughably poor until his flukey winner, Loftus-Cheek was as anoymous as McGinn was. And still they ran around us at will
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Anyone who can nick a win in the next 2 games could still get themselves out of it.
When did we last nick a win though? January?
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Maybe it is to late and we need to see it through.
But it is clear that without a different mindset and stated ambition, what ever league we are in next year we we will continue to underachieve.
I do not see DS as the answer
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We’ve won seven games all season all against average to shit teams. I can’t see how all of a sudden we are going to get another three and a draw in 8 games against mostly good to very good sides.
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Grealish is more bothered with a scratch on his leg than keeping us up. I think the claret and blue blood in him is overdone. Like another poster said he looks gone to me. Mings also looks half-arsed , he gets frustrated but it looks superficial to me. I just dont see the desperate need to grab a point, to throw everything at it from most of them. Perhaps Samatta at the end, he was chasing everything. Im afraid its symptomatic of the vast money in football, it just doesnt matter to these players. I feel sorry for Smith, I believe he cares, but he is out of his depth, I wouldnt mind a change just to see if it could make a difference. JT ? Maybe ? or Fat Sam - I hate it but why not ? He correctly pointed out our recruitment in the summer lacked experience. We could have had Cahill back but went with Konsa. I know who is the better defender.
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That was shit, rubbish, shit and rubbish, I would like to be more eloquent but Ia m very very pissed off
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I’ve defended Smith all season, because I thought he did have an influence last season in getting us up, it wasn’t all Grealish and it meant more him being at the helm with us going on that run. But simply sticking with the same tactics game after game, no matter the opposition is just madness, or strikes me as someone who is now lost. Saying that I don’t think he’ll get sacked before the end of the season and despite that dog awful performance with are 1 point from safety. Only basing this on one set of games this weekend, but Bournemouth and West Ham look as bad as us, so I think it’ll simply be who manages to put in 2 or 3 dogs of war type performances out of the 3 of us. We don’t look capable at the moment.
I think McGinn will pick up but it may be too late when he does. I think Hourihane tries but is not up to this level, Trez at the moment shouldn’t be anywhere near the team, nor Jota. I felt sorry for Davies, there was generally no one in 20 yards off him, that is down to the managers tactics. He simply has to find a way to get Samatta and Davies in the team, I would be tempted to take out hourihane and El Ghazi and put in nakamba and Samatta and play Luiz in a more advanced wide midfield position.
Grealish is wasted out on the left as every supporter and pundit has said, he had that one run through the middle when kante got booked, but we need him doing that all game long. As much as I love the kid, it does look like his hearts not in this though and that’s not acceptable. Why was he not taking responsibility for that last minute free kick Instead of bloody Trezeguet! Even if he has lost faith in the manager, which we don’t know and psychologically he’s moved, he has to show some professional pride for the club he ‘loves’
I think we need to get 3 wins and a draw as an absolute minimum, at the moment Newcastle, Palace (though they looked good yesterday), Everton, Arsenal and West Ham are key. Think we have no chance against wolves, Man Utd or Liverpool.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/premier-league/12012157/smith-proud-of-effort
He couldn’t have asked for much more oh and as predicted Chelsea’s bench is mentioned.
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I disagree with some of the comments about our commitment - I thought we were committed and good defensively - but the total absence of any class going forward - it was awful - means we just cannot stay up. Especially with McGinn and Grealish so hopelessly off it. I can’t fault Mings and Hause. The first Chelski goal was a brilliant cross. The fault is tactical by letting them get crosses in time and time again - sooner or later a corker’ll come in. We’re down.
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Oh and Dean was proud of his players display, really Dean, really, and before anyone asks what he should have said, how about as a Villa fan and Manager I am angry and disappointed where this club know is, not just some bollocks
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Just watched first 20 mins of the second half on Optus. We’ve gone from 1-0 to 2-1 without touching the ball. Couldn’t watch any more. It seems we may be reliant on West Ham and Bournemouth somehow being shitter than us to stay up.
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It is absolutely, utterly fucking predictable bollocks that he comes out with. I mean if lottery numbers were based on what he is going to say post game we’d all be minted.
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Just watched first 20 mins of the second half on Optus. We’ve gone from 1-0 to 2-1 without touching the ball. Couldn’t watch any more. It seems we may be reliant on West Ham and Bournemouth somehow being shitter than us to stay up.
Since November we’ve been hoping there are three teams worse than us.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/premier-league/12012157/smith-proud-of-effort
He couldn’t have asked for much more oh and as predicted Chelsea’s bench is mentioned.
Poor and defeatist.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/premier-league/12012157/smith-proud-of-effort
He couldn’t have asked for much more oh and as predicted Chelsea’s bench is mentioned.
He always reaches for a platitude or an excuse. Yes he's protecting the players blah blah blah but 1 point out of two home games in a relegation fight is shit. Take some bloody responsibility man.
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I think the biggest problem we’ve got is the manager long term
and then the form of Grealish and McGinn short term
having said that as ridiculous as it sounds I think we will beat Newcastle (there I’ve said it)
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The big problem we will have is that we have a load of totally shite players on high wages which no other club will pay or want.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12012133/pulisic-and-giroud-give-chelsea-win
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I’ve defended Smith all season, because I thought he did have an influence last season in getting us up, it wasn’t all Grealish and it meant more him being at the helm with us going on that run. But simply sticking with the same tactics game after game, no matter the opposition is just madness, or strikes me as someone who is now lost. Saying that I don’t think he’ll get sacked before the end of the season and despite that dog awful performance with are 1 point from safety. Only basing this on one set of games this weekend, but Bournemouth and West Ham look as bad as us, so I think it’ll simply be who manages to put in 2 or 3 dogs of war type performances out of the 3 of us. We don’t look capable at the moment.
I think McGinn will pick up but it may be too late when he does. I think Hourihane tries but is not up to this level, Trez at the moment shouldn’t be anywhere near the team, nor Jota. I felt sorry for Davies, there was generally no one in 20 yards off him, that is down to the managers tactics. He simply has to find a way to get Samatta and Davies in the team, I would be tempted to take out hourihane and El Ghazi and put in nakamba and Samatta and play Luiz in a more advanced wide midfield position.
Grealish is wasted out on the left as every supporter and pundit has said, he had that one run through the middle when kante got booked, but we need him doing that all game long. As much as I love the kid, it does look like his hearts not in this though and that’s not acceptable. Why was he not taking responsibility for that last minute free kick Instead of bloody Trezeguet! Even if he has lost faith in the manager, which we don’t know and psychologically he’s moved, he has to show some professional pride for the club he ‘loves’
I think we need to get 3 wins and a draw as an absolute minimum, at the moment Newcastle, Palace (though they looked good yesterday), Everton, Arsenal and West Ham are key. Think we have no chance against wolves, Man Utd or Liverpool.
Yeah I reckon 3 wins & a draw and had pretty much the same list of teams.
Smith - I'm willing to give him a break because it's Chelsea, but you only get that if you perform against the teams lower down the league. Beat Newcastle or off you pop, I'm afraid. If we're not getting results against them, we ain't staying up. I've long been a Big Sam fan, I'd happily have him at Villa as v caretaker manager with a view to him becoming Director of Football next season.
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Smith is just bland.
Bland football. Bland tactics. Bland approach.
Nice enough bloke but bland.
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Grealish either has his mind elsewhere or is doing himself no favours of getting a move to a Premiership Club .
We have a team of poor players that in total cost us a lot of money and nobody will want them
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The Premier League was so much better when it was not being played.
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A psychologist would have a field day with Smith's body language in his post-match interview. He must have shrugged his shoulders twenty times. Nothing to do with me guv, Champions League squad.
Can't see Chris Wilder being so accepting of a performance like that. His players are probably being made to walk back from Newcastle tonite.
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Just watched first 20 mins of the second half on Optus. We’ve gone from 1-0 to 2-1 without touching the ball. Couldn’t watch any more. It seems we may be reliant on West Ham and Bournemouth somehow being shitter than us to stay up.
Bournemouth looked shite yesterday. they've taken 6 points off us this season
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And thinking about this, how absolutely fucking shit is it that we find ourselves in the richest league in the world and yet are playing with a rookie striker who has never scored at this level, on his own!
Don’t get me wrong, he’s a decent target man and a decent player, but christ, what a shit situation to be in.
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Same old, same old......rubbish defending and no bite in midfield, plus the usual one up top. He needs to put Samatta alongside Davis; it's too easy for defences to mark one man. I think that's one point from the last 18? which is pathetic!
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And thinking about this, how absolutely fucking shit is it that we find ourselves in the richest league in the world and yet are playing with a rookie striker who has never scored at this level, on his own!
I only remembered yesterday that for 3 games (I think) this season we had to play without a striker of any sort because we'd fucked up so badly in the summer.
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Shite, I'd be amazed if we stayed up. Simply not good or tough enough.
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There would be outrage if we had any performances like this under Lambert or Brucey
We look worse than under both of those
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In fairness Chelsea wouldn't be on any mangers hit least in charge of Villa at this time, as a club to get 3 points from, these are the games we lose, Newcastle is the team Villa should take all 3 from, we lose there and we shouldn't see Smith again, something else, if you was looking at this in a work situation and you are the boss, looking at Smith and Terry, the body language the side looks, you would keep those apart because you would swear they are going to come to blows, I really don't think they are the best of mates by any measure, allowing that to continue in our position literally signs the death certificate for the club.
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It’s also noticeable that Brentford now look the real deal for promotion. They’re slick in possession but they’ve cut out the silly lapses of concentration that used to cost them a lot of late goals.
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For the first time ever I just thought of Allardyce and didn't recoil in horror.
I'd take him now no problem. Spare me the eye bleeding football comments because what I saw today was worse by a long way than anything one of his teams as ever thrown together. Dean Smith is very much in Remi Garde/Black/McLeish territory.
My eye's bleed every time we lose.
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It’s also noticeable that Brentford now look the real deal for promotion. They’re slick in possession but they’ve cut out the silly lapses of concentration that used to cost them a lot of late goals.
Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Smith create an ethos at Brentford, that was based on attack, attack, attack, I remember a few years ago a commentator saying any success Brentford have, is based on the fact they will score one more than you at the expense of defence, it was said at the time, that would explain a lot and would explain why teams can obliterate Villa in seconds, problem he has at Villa, he doesn't have an attack.
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Chelsea if I herd right have won once away from home since xmas and have been beaten by Bournmouth and West Ham so they are hardly Liverpool or City !
Smith moaning about 5 subs when it was Chelsea's first couple that did the damage so hardly 5 subs really had nothing to do with it , if we have Smith 10 subs there would still be crap and have no impact
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We didnt get anywhere near them in the first half hour after that early free kick. In truth, we didn't deserve too much out the game and I think he needs to make a few changes against Newcastle. Bring in Elmo, Tresequet, Nakamba and Samatta, it needs shaking up.
I can actually see us winning up there on Wednesday for some reason.
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We should secure Callum O'Hare for next season. We'll need him.
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It’s also noticeable that Brentford now look the real deal for promotion. They’re slick in possession but they’ve cut out the silly lapses of concentration that used to cost them a lot of late goals.
Look, I’m as pissed off as everyone else. But Smith is going nowhere, and to to use this as a stick to beat him with is ridiculous. So Brentford have improved since Smith left them have they? Erm.....which team is currently playing in the top division?
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We didnt get anywhere near them in the first half hour after that early free kick. In truth, we didn't deserve too much out the game and I think he needs to make a few changes against Newcastle. Bring in Elmo, Tresequet, Nakamba and Samatta, it needs shaking up.
I can actually see us winning up there on Wednesday for some reason.
You’re either the eternal optimist or you’ve been on the Thunderbird all afternoon.
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It’s also noticeable that Brentford now look the real deal for promotion. They’re slick in possession but they’ve cut out the silly lapses of concentration that used to cost them a lot of late goals.
Look, I’m as pissed off as everyone else. But Smith is going nowhere, and to to use this as a stick to beat him with is ridiculous. So Brentford have improved since Smith left them have they? Erm.....which team is currently playing in the top division?
Brentford HAVE improved since he left. Fact. Villa being in the top division has absolutely nothing to do with Brentford.
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It’s also noticeable that Brentford now look the real deal for promotion. They’re slick in possession but they’ve cut out the silly lapses of concentration that used to cost them a lot of late goals.
Look, I’m as pissed off as everyone else. But Smith is going nowhere, and to to use this as a stick to beat him with is ridiculous. So Brentford have improved since Smith left them have they? Erm.....which team is currently playing in the top division?
Brentford HAVE improved since he left. Fact. Villa being in the top division has absolutely nothing to do with Brentford.
Then Brentford have nothing to do with Villa, surely?
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Smith would have been toast if this fixture and this performance had been played back in March.
Today proved he has learnt nothing from the break.
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Had of?
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Had of?
Fuck thanks for pointing that out, too long in the colonies
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It’s also noticeable that Brentford now look the real deal for promotion. They’re slick in possession but they’ve cut out the silly lapses of concentration that used to cost them a lot of late goals.
Look, I’m as pissed off as everyone else. But Smith is going nowhere, and to to use this as a stick to beat him with is ridiculous. So Brentford have improved since Smith left them have they? Erm.....which team is currently playing in the top division?
Brentford HAVE improved since he left. Fact. Villa being in the top division has absolutely nothing to do with Brentford.
Ah the Rafa “Fact” argument. I stand corrected. Maybe we should sack Deano and poach whichever no mark is currently managing F***ing Brentford. That’ll fix it.
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His game management is pathetic, unfortunately this is a huge part of the game and he has shown to be wanting time and time again.
I would say it’s impossible to be a success as a manager at this level if you can not manage your resources effectively.
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It’s also noticeable that Brentford now look the real deal for promotion. They’re slick in possession but they’ve cut out the silly lapses of concentration that used to cost them a lot of late goals.
Look, I’m as pissed off as everyone else. But Smith is going nowhere, and to to use this as a stick to beat him with is ridiculous. So Brentford have improved since Smith left them have they? Erm.....which team is currently playing in the top division?
Brentford HAVE improved since he left. Fact. Villa being in the top division has absolutely nothing to do with Brentford.
Ah the Rafa “Fact” argument. I stand corrected. Maybe we should sack Deano and poach whichever no mark is currently managing F***ing Brentford. That’ll fix it.
Brentford are better now than when Dean left them. Doesn't mean we appoint Thomas Frank or whatever his name is. Brentford have a particular set up behind the scenes and that is tried and tested and seems to work well for them. However, this is about Villa and Dean Smith. I don't give a fuck about Brentford. Dean Smith is out of his depth at Villa.
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We did it once and thought it would work. If Dean Smith had not been a Villa supporting Brummie he would not got in the top six applicants for the job. It was an appointment based on sentiment. There is no place for sentiment in the Premier League.
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We did it once and thought it would work. If Dean Smith had not been a Villa supporting Brummie he would not got in the top six applicants for the job. It was an appointment based on sentiment. There is no place for sentiment in the Premier League.
We all wanted it to work and it did work in division 2, sadly he is out of his depth and this has been apparent for a long time.
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We did it once and thought it would work. If Dean Smith had not been a Villa supporting Brummie he would not got in the top six applicants for the job. It was an appointment based on sentiment. There is no place for sentiment in the Premier League.
I agree Brian. There were some grounds for considering him as a candidate but none that were compelling enough to give him the job. I'm not saying he got the job solely because he's a Villa fan but if he wasn't a Villa fan I don't think he'd have got it.
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This is the first time I’ve felt that we are going down. We just don’t have the quality to compete in this league and we may have just as well been a championship club against Chelsea. We have one quality player and he is out of form and that spells relegation. Our one hope is that both West Ham and Bournemouth look equally as bad without the one quality player but it’s a slim hope. I hope to god I’m wrong but I can’t see us winning another game this season.
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We got to the play offs and came good. Smith did not smash the second division by ten clear points. He did well to get us up the way he did but there is a universe of difference between coming up through the play offs and being secure in the Premiership. We all like Dean Smith as a man but the Premiership has exposed his managerial limitations. It is tragic but it is true.
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Brentford spent more in the summer than ever before. They've bet the farm on promotion.
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But he did get the job, and has been the only manager since MON to actually achieve something (except for perhaps a brief period under Tim Sherwood). To keep changing manager every bleedin’ season has clearly not worked, why does everyone think it’s gonna work this time?
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Brentford spent more in the summer than ever before. They've bet the farm on promotion.
Wasn't that funded by selling Maupay ?
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Brentford spent more in the summer than ever before. They've bet the farm on promotion.
Wasn't that funded by selling Maupay ?
And Konsa?
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We did it once and thought it would work. If Dean Smith had not been a Villa supporting Brummie he would not got in the top six applicants for the job. It was an appointment based on sentiment. There is no place for sentiment in the Premier League.
We all wanted it to work and it did work in division 2, sadly he is out of his depth and this has been apparent for a long time.
And let's face it, at times it wasn't working in the Championship either. Whenever Grealish was out he was utterly clueless and the team looked awful.
Please get rid now, give Big Sam a chance to keep us up ant stabilize us.
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I imagine the money they robbed off us for Hogan was put on deposit somewhere safe.
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We pissed it once we actually had a functioning team to put out, the rewriting of last season is bizarre. And what we did last season doesn't mean Smith has been good enough this season.
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We go down we will lose a few players like Grealish, McGinn and Mings. But without FFP, financially, we get to do what the fuck we like. Which is fortunate when your owners have more money than everybody else.
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But he did get the job, and has been the only manager since MON to actually achieve something (except for perhaps a brief period under Tim Sherwood). To keep changing manager every bleedin’ season has clearly not worked, why does everyone think it’s gonna work this time?
Works well for Watford, and at a higher level Chelsea. Also Leicester.
If it isn't working change.
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But he did get the job, and has been the only manager since MON to actually achieve something (except for perhaps a brief period under Tim Sherwood). To keep changing manager every bleedin’ season has clearly not worked, why does everyone think it’s gonna work this time?
Works well for Watford, and at a higher level Chelsea. Also Leicester.
If it isn't working change.
Watford have 2 more points than us.
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I preferred H&V when we didn’t have to play.
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We go down we will lose a few players like Grealish, McGinn and Mings. But without FFP, financially, we get to do what the fuck we like. Which is fortunate when your owners have more money than everybody else.
Apart from Bruce at Newcastle I'm not sure which PL club would take McGinn. He still has a lot to prove at this level.
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We go down we will lose a few players like Grealish, McGinn and Mings. But without FFP, financially, we get to do what the fuck we like. Which is fortunate when your owners have more money than everybody else.
Apart from Bruce at Newcastle I'm not sure which PL club would take McGinn. He still has a lot to prove at this level.
I can only think of a couple that wouldn't.
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Agree the only questions are whether they’d pay the price we want, and whether he’d push for a move if they didn’t.
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Lots of 'he was never good enough, should never have been chosen in the first place' type revisionism from people who were not saying that when he was appointed. That said, I do wonder how far he would take us even if we stayed up.
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Lots of 'he was never good enough, should never have been chosen in the first place' type revisionism from people who were not saying that when he was appointed.
Who?
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He was a good appointment and his positive play was absolutely the reason we came from nowhere to go up. The question I might have in hindsight is whether going up was all a bit too fast? That we structurally weren’t ready for it. Another season down, building properly would have avoided some of the buys we made. Players that were bought to fill needs but not good enough to be quality needed to remain a PL club. And that includes the manager who could have taken more time to know his job at such a big club with immense expectations. It’s just swallowed him as it has done to many others in our past.
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It is not revisionism to judge somebody on their performance in a job. In any business it is an unavoidable neccessity. He earned his shot at being a Premiership manager, no reasonable person would begrudge it him but it is clearly not working. It is very sad but has to be faced.
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It is not revisionism to judge somebody on their performance in a job. In any business it is an unavoidable neccessity. He earned his shot at being a Premiership manager, no reasonable person would begrudge it him but it is clearly not working. It is very sad but has to be faced.
Yep agreed. We are perpetually making the same mistakes and that just cannot happen.
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The like for like substitutions are the most annoying thing for me about the mess at the moment, and they are utterly predictable.
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The like for like substitutions are the most annoying thing for me about the mess at the moment, and they are utterly predictable.
I agree. They show sheer rigidity of thinking. If you are going to make a like for like change, surely the player coming on needs to be better than the one exiting? Jota, Trezeguet are just both championship sock fillers.
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It is not revisionism to judge somebody on their performance in a job. In any business it is an unavoidable neccessity. He earned his shot at being a Premiership manager, no reasonable person would begrudge it him but it is clearly not working. It is very sad but has to be faced.
Whilst I don’t completely disagree about your overall point regarding Smith in the premier, you did start out by saying that it was a bad appointment overall or you at least hinted at it. This is revisionist, given that he got us up in unlikely circumstances last year. Last year despite some ups and downs he did a very good job.
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Which was largely down to the return of Grealish who is/was head and shoulders above anyone else at that level.
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Where did I say it was a bad appointment?
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The like for like substitutions are the most annoying thing for me about the mess at the moment, and they are utterly predictable.
It’s not just like for like its usually reactive and too late.
I doubt if any other manager has lost more points from winning positions.
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Which was largely down to the return of Grealish who is/was head and shoulders above anyone else at that level.
That and Tammy McGinn and Mings where very good at that level .In terms of Grealish he is now the most fouled player in prem league history , the PL have wised up to him and just foul him every game and we have no other outlet.
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Where did I say it was a bad appointment?
Apologies if I misinterpreted what you said. I presumed that when you said he only got interviewed and appointed as he was a villa, that you believed it was a bad appointment. Like I said apologies if you didn’t mean that.
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Which was largely down to the return of Grealish who is/was head and shoulders above anyone else at that level.
The past is the past so this is probably a waster of time now really, but every time an anti smith thread comes alive, the hints that he had nothing to do with getting us up come to the fire. I find that bizarre and again revisionist. However, I’m not on here to defend smith and over this season although I think he has been handed a bad deal to an extent with some of the signings, tactically he hasn’t managed to sort it out. Persisting with the lone striker in the hope that an out of form Grealish and McGinn can get near him is just either belligerence or a coach who has long ago run out of ideas.
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Bruce had Grealish for all of his time here.
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We did it once and thought it would work. If Dean Smith had not been a Villa supporting Brummie he would not got in the top six applicants for the job. It was an appointment based on sentiment. There is no place for sentiment in the Premier League.
It was a reasonable appointment at the time I thought. An experienced coach at the level we were at with a clear footballing philosophy and further changes at board level. As opposed to RDM or Bruce who were tasked with buying their way out of the division. Or the current owners previous first choice of Thierry Henry! Awkward questions about Smith's lack of success at Brentford were glossed over a bit too much in hindsight. The spell when Grealish was injured was horrific too. While parachuting Terry as assistant never sat well with me.
But that footballing philosophy has clearly fallen by the wayside a long time ago with possession stats like 25% today. We are a disorganised rabble and have been for much of the season. Recruitment has been poor but no-one call tell me that Newcastle or Sheff Utd for example have much better players in their squad than us. The managers job is to get the best out of the players at his disposal and Smith has failed abysmally to do that in comparison to Wilder or Bruce even.
The board should never have let it get this far. January was the time to make the change, Southampton were ruthless bringing Poch in for Atkins a few years back. That's top level sport. Instead our board backed Smith and paddled our squad with utter shit like Reina, Drinky and Baston to help us out. Shambles!
Purslow, Suso, Smith, ROK, JT all should be gone
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Bruce had Grealish for all of his time here.
He was out for three months (almost) with that weird kidney injury.
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Bruce had Grealish for all of his time here.
He was out for three months (almost) with that weird kidney injury.
And for a similar time (?) under Smith.
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Brentford spent more in the summer than ever before. They've bet the farm on promotion.
Selling Konsa to us for 12m and signing Jansson for 5m from Leeds was pretty clever. Rather had Jansson as he's a bit of a nutter but decent defender and think he'd have been a big crowd favourite as we like our nordic CBs.
Konsa just strikes me as another Curtis Davies in the making. Hyped up as an England CB in the making but in reality will just yo yo between the divisions as an average CB/full back.
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We go down we will lose a few players like Grealish, McGinn and Mings. But without FFP, financially, we get to do what the fuck we like. Which is fortunate when your owners have more money than everybody else.
Apart from Bruce at Newcastle I'm not sure which PL club would take McGinn. He still has a lot to prove at this level.
Yeah I think he'll stay given his injuries. Also think Heaton will stay. Everyone thought Butland would leave Stoke as soon as they went down but he's still there although not very good anymore. Mitrovic staying at Fulham was also a surprise so don't see why we'd lose someone like Samatta.
We'd have to rebuild a little but you simply use the loan market and sign some players from lower end prem clubs/ top end championship which is what we did in August 2016. Still took us a year to fully adapt to championship but we hadn't been out of the top division in 30 years at that point and had Lerner years of decay to wipe out so completely different to know where we've just been naive with decisions in last 12 months.
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He was a good appointment and his positive play was absolutely the reason we came from nowhere to go up. The question I might have in hindsight is whether going up was all a bit too fast? That we structurally weren’t ready for it. Another season down, building properly would have avoided some of the buys we made. Players that were bought to fill needs but not good enough to be quality needed to remain a PL club. And that includes the manager who could have taken more time to know his job at such a big club with immense expectations. It’s just swallowed him as it has done to many others in our past.
It's easy to say that but if we hadn't have gone up we'd have lost Grealish and obviously Tammy wouldn't be there. Mings wouldn't have signed full time so we'd have had to signed well to be up with Leeds and West Brom.
The right thing was to go up. We should've then studied how teams who'd gone up stayed up. I've done the Wolves comparison to death but when Leicester went up in 2014 they picked up Esteban Cambiasso on a free who did a great job in midfield for them.
I assume because we signed pretty big names for a championship team in Snodgrass, John Terry and Abraham that would continue in premier league, 2/3 amongst all the young players we signed, considering the owners ambitions and the pull we still have as a club with 40k through the gate every other week.
Maybe no one of that calibre wanted to join us but dosen't appear we looked that hard in that direction.
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Where did I say it was a bad appointment?
You said he probably wouldn't have been in your top six candidates. He'd proved himself a reasonably capable and steady championship manager. Also would've taken Walsall up if he hadn' left mid season in 15/16 so not far off what attracted Sheffield United to say Chris Wilder which has obviously worked out wonderfully for them.
It's worth remembering we were orginally going for Henry before that idea got ditched for whatever reason (seems it was more from Henry's end). Went to Monaco and hardly won a game. Now manager at Montreal Impact (replaced Remi Garde amusingly enough). Apparently one of Mourinho's former assistant was also being seriously considered so not sure they'd have done much better.
If we can still stay up I'd want us to go and get a manager who's recently won titles and managed in CL. Likes of Marcelinho who won cup at Valencia last season and Jardim who won league at Monaco a few years back. Both out of work. Much smaller quality pool if you're back in the championship.
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A pity Suso's Valencia and Atleti links haven't pulled up anything yet. Instead we've sniffed around B League. Do any of our signings from Belgium share agents I wonder.
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We go down we will lose a few players like Grealish, McGinn and Mings. But without FFP, financially, we get to do what the fuck we like. Which is fortunate when your owners have more money than everybody else.
A whole year in the wilderness (if we're lucky). Fuck that, I want us to be a ruthless club that wan'ts to compete and win. Yo-yo-ing up and down isn't right for villa.
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Other teams foul tactically so much more than we do and largely get away with it. They committed 17 fouls to our nine and ended up with one card to our two.
If you assume that all fouls are committed by the team without possession (a bit of a stretch), then Chelsea would have committed 65 fouls if Villa had been in possession for the whole game whereas we would only have committed 12 fouls if Chelsea had the ball for the whole game (not far off the case).
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Jardim would be my pick.
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Other teams foul tactically so much more than we do and largely get away with it. They committed 17 fouls to our nine and ended up with one card to our two.
If you assume that all fouls are committed by the team without possession (a bit of a stretch), then Chelsea would have committed 65 fouls if Villa had been in possession for the whole game whereas we would only have committed 12 fouls if Chelsea had the ball for the whole game (not far off the case).
Yes.
"Savvy" teams do tactical fouls at the point of transition. Tim Vickery, the BBC South America football correspondent who was based in Brazil, was forever banging on about it years ago.
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I remember when we played 4-3-3 under DoL, and Gabby and Luke Moore played as defensive cover for much of the time.
Little point in playing Jack wide in this formation. He is clearly losing it and will soon be sent off.
(Edited for spelling).
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A pity Suso's Valencia and Atleti links haven't pulled up anything yet. Instead we've sniffed around B League. Do any of our signings from Belgium share agents I wonder.
A rumour at the time was one of the signings we made from Brugge wasn't someone we actually scouted much but got offered in the deal for the player we were watching.
Only a rumour though..
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For what it’s worth, I voted for Smith in the ‘who should be the next Villa manager?’ Poll. It was all on the back of what he’d done at Brentford. I didn’t even know he was one of us. By the same token I don’t judge him as a Villa fan, just what we do on the pitch, the same as Bruce and McLeish. I think after getting us up last season he earned the right to a full season in the prem. He might prove not to be good enough, but it is still in his hands to make it happen. Whilst that is still the case, he has my backing.
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Please don't put words in my mouth Soccer HQ. Read what I said. It was nothing about MY choice of Smith, it was about THE choice of Smith. I made an objective observation about how he came to be chosen not whether he should have been chosen. You picked up on Clampy's claim that revisionists are at work judging Dean Smith. There may well be but there is a vast difference between revisionism which by definition means reinterpretation of a decision and the ongoing reassessment of the success of a decision. Nowhere in any walk of life are performances not subject to ongoing scrutiny. That is not revisionism, it is the duty of any holder of authority.
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Having watched the 2 games if our tactics are to lump it forward and hope for the best or have 10 men standing in our penalty area, then we are not going to survive
I honestly thought that after 2 months of being able to analyse our previous games and look forward to the remaining games that Dean would have had a better plan than playing parks football to survive.
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I fully expected Smith to make mistakes as was a younger, hungrier type of manager and not the seasoned pro.
I did however expect him to learn from those mistakes and adapt his style and grow into the job. It's that lack of development in the team or adaptability in the style which surprises me the most. His best days were his first 6 games and the amazing run in last season - it's been rubbish in between.
In may ways he's been fortunate, I reckon Deadly would've pulled the trigger after Albion home last season, Watford away this season and again after the Leicester away performance.
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He has gone the way of so many of our recent managers, nothing to offer but desperate defending when all else fails. I can't see the logic in keeping him on, he will not be here if we are relegated so why not give Fat Sam the rest of the season. At the very least we might get a new manager bounce out of the players, a new voice, new instructions, nothing to lose.
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Well the logic is he’s got a contract and what 8 or 9 games to turn things around.
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We go down we will lose a few players like Grealish, McGinn and Mings. But without FFP, financially, we get to do what the fuck we like. Which is fortunate when your owners have more money than everybody else.
I'm not sure this is true. Aren't they still looking at spending but over two years instead of one?
I could be wrong but I don't think clubs have free rein to spend what they want.
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We go down we will lose a few players like Grealish, McGinn and Mings. But without FFP, financially, we get to do what the fuck we like. Which is fortunate when your owners have more money than everybody else.
I'm not sure this is true. Aren't they still looking at spending but over two years instead of one?
I could be wrong but I don't think clubs have free rein to spend what they want.
We will have the proceeds profit of Mings SJM Jack which will be a lot
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The worst aspect of the result yesterday, is that no Villa fan thought we would win the game even after taking the lead.
That just sums up where we are. There is an inevitability about it all.
Unless Smith shakes it up, we are going to be relegated and everyone can see it.
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The worst aspect of the result yesterday, is that no Villa fan thought we would win the game even after taking the lead.
That just sums up where we are. There is an inevitability about it all.
Unless Smith shakes it up, we are going to be relegated and everyone can see it.
This is certainly true, I was thinking 2-1 or 3-1 at half time.
To be fair, Chelsea were bright all game. They looked sharp from the off and they obviouly have far more quality than us. I had hoped our midweek game would have given the us the edge, but we just kept inviting them on and allowed them to play themselves into form very quickly. We were out gunned and outplayed.
It reminded me of a Bruce performance. If you invite a team on for 90 minutes the chances are they are going to score. We just couldn't retain the ball and when we did get it invariably it ended with a hopeful punt.
I'm dissapointed with Smith and the coaching team - they had no idea of how to get us into the game. But I don't think 3 at the back or two up front or even playing Jack in the middle will be some silver bullet. I came to the conclusion some time ago that most the players just aren't good enough. Our recruitment over the last two windows is nothing short of dreadful and whilst people are pointing fingers, Suso has to take a big slice of the blame.
Without Jack, McGinn & Mings, I'm not even sure we have the basis of a decent mid table Championship team. Yes we'll have money to spend, but we've proved that is harder than it looks.
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The worst aspect of the result yesterday, is that no Villa fan thought we would win the game even after taking the lead.
The same could be said of the players as well, there is no self belief, it’s running right through the squad and fans alike.
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Brentford spent more in the summer than ever before. They've bet the farm on promotion.
Their net summer 'spend' saw them bring in 9m.
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We go down we will lose a few players like Grealish, McGinn and Mings. But without FFP, financially, we get to do what the fuck we like. Which is fortunate when your owners have more money than everybody else.
I'm not sure this is true. Aren't they still looking at spending but over two years instead of one?
I could be wrong but I don't think clubs have free rein to spend what they want.
That's what I thought. FFP relaxed by UEFA, so if you are in the Prem, do what you want, but the EFL haven't said they are doing the same. Saying that, if we sell Grealish and Mings, that could fetch around £100m.
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Heaton, Targett, Konsa, Engels, Luiz, El Ghazi and maybe Samatta will do well in the championship. We will need a right back, defensive mid, wide player and another centre forward to do well is my guess.
The two main reasons for going down, for me, will be the gamble on Wesley as our only forward as an untried kid in a new country, that was an abysmal decision. Then in January we used our main advantage, money, to bring in Reina, Drinkwater and another Belgian. Not good enough.
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The two main reasons for going down, for me, will be the gamble on Wesley as our only forward as an untried kid in a new country, that was an abysmal decision. Then in January we used our main advantage, money, to bring in Reina, Drinkwater and another Belgian. Not good enough.
I agree, betting the farm on Wesley always seemed like madness.
I know they may not have all been affordable or getable, but imagine our team with Maupay, Benrahma & Phillips instead of Wesley, Trez and Nakamba.
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believing that Drinkwater was going to add to our ability as a squad was monumentally stupid and worthy of the sack.
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believing that Drinkwater was going to add to our ability as a squad was monumentally stupid and worthy of the sack.
It hasn't worked out, but he was free which I assume was one of the criteria at the time. Yes the wages will have cost us but given our position and lack of alternatives I don't think that decision alone broke our season. But yes, it was an incredibly dissapointing and naieve window.
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At the start of the season we looked to have three players were unquestionably PL standard, Heaton, Mings and Jack. McGinn has stepped up and others have looked decent in bursts but it always appeared as if it was going to be a struggle. Our recruitment seemed risky and so it has proved.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
I actually don't think it's a given that we lose Mings if we go down - not sure anyone in the Prem would come in for him.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
I actually don't think it's a given that we lose Mings if we go down - not sure anyone in the Prem would come in for him.
Given what we paid for him we'd need to get 25-40m for him and I don't think anyone will bid that. We shouldn't need the money if Jack goes so may be a question of whether Mings digs his heels in to get a transfer.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
I actually don't think it's a given that we lose Mings if we go down - not sure anyone in the Prem would come in for him.
Given what we paid for him we'd need to get 25-40m for him and I don't think anyone will bid that. We shouldn't need the money if Jack goes so may be a question of whether Mings digs his heels in to get a transfer.
On this seasons form I won't be that bothered to see him leave. Grealish is the one that we would miss, no other player is a big loss on this seasons showing.
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You'd imagine one of the promoted teams or someone around the bottom would give him another shot, I think he's done ok, he's suffered as much as anyone that once Jack is marked there are few options so he's had to hang on to the ball for too long.
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I don't think Mings has been too bad overall this season (that blip aside just after he got picked for England) but I personally think we overpaid for him.
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I don't think Mings has been too bad overall this season (that blip aside just after he got picked for England) but I personally think we overpaid for him.
The only players in the whole squad we did not overpay for are Davis, McGinn and Hause. Possibly Luiz and Engels.
Wesley, Targett, Konsa, Nakamba we massively overpayed for and will be lumbered with until their contracts expire. This is what keeps shafting us with FFP, shit players on high wages that we can't sell on without taking a loss and paying part of their wages - Hogan etc etc. I can't see any of that lot being good enough for the Championship either.
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Have to disagree that we overpaid for Mings, £25m and he's a 27 year old England International. I think if we sold him he'd make a slight profit, and at the very least get our money back.
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McGinn still hasn't proved himself in the premiership, he was bright at the start of the season but his form had dropped right off before he got injured. Lets face it the reason we got promoted last season was down to Grealish, the time he was out the side was very forgettable.
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Have to disagree that we overpaid for Mings, £25m and he's a 27 year old England International. I think if we sold him he'd make a slight profit, and at the very least get our money back.
As we saw last time we went down, the offers we get will be low as PL clubs know 1. we will need to sell to balance the books and 2. Players will agitate for a move.
No way are we getting our money back on Mings. Have seen numbers as large as £100m banded around for Grealish, but can't see us getting more than £35-40m for him. We will not be in a strong negotiating position.
Suso needs binning before we spend any money next window, and Smith needs to go now to give us a chance of staying up.
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One would hope that Purslow had the good sense to build wage reductions into contracts in the event of relegation. Being Villa though, I wouldn't bet on it.
The recruitment last summer gives the impression we were recruiting for another season in the Championship because I'm buggered if I can see the majority of them ever being PL standard. Maybe with a coach who gets them working harder and better organised. Targett might eventually make a decent left midfielder as he's not bad going forward but he's a terrible defender. Southampton must be laughing their bollocks off at how much we paid for him. Trezeguet might make a decent training cone. Nakamba and Jota don't look look up to scratch either, Hourihane and Lansbury are too lightweight, and El Ghazi gives you max 15-20 minutes each game and then disappears. Engels and Hause have too many mistakes in them and Mings isn't really much better. And both our goalies are given to throwing goals away at times, although Nyland has improved a lot.
So even if we go down and come back up we'll need another massive rebuild to bring in PL standard players, unless we can ID some up and coming talent that can actually play a bit. What we've "scouted" so far doesn't give much hope that's going to happen.
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Have to disagree that we overpaid for Mings, £25m and he's a 27 year old England International. I think if we sold him he'd make a slight profit, and at the very least get our money back.
As we saw last time we went down, the offers we get will be low as PL clubs know 1. we will need to sell to balance the books and 2. Players will agitate for a move.
No way are we getting our money back on Mings. Have seen numbers as large as £100m banded around for Grealish, but can't see us getting more than £35-40m for him. We will not be in a strong negotiating position.
Suso needs binning before we spend any money next window, and Smith needs to go now to give us a chance of staying up.
If clubs offer £40m for Grealish, then we won't sell him.
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Have to disagree that we overpaid for Mings, £25m and he's a 27 year old England International. I think if we sold him he'd make a slight profit, and at the very least get our money back.
As we saw last time we went down, the offers we get will be low as PL clubs know 1. we will need to sell to balance the books and 2. Players will agitate for a move.
No way are we getting our money back on Mings. Have seen numbers as large as £100m banded around for Grealish, but can't see us getting more than £35-40m for him. We will not be in a strong negotiating position.
Suso needs binning before we spend any money next window, and Smith needs to go now to give us a chance of staying up.
If clubs offer £40m for Grealish, then we won't sell him.
Hope not, would rather keep him. But if the alternative is being blocked from promotion or a points deduction for breaching FFP he will go for a lower price than we would like.
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The like for like substitutions are the most annoying thing for me about the mess at the moment, and they are utterly predictable.
Problem is: we don't appear to have the squad members that could be brought on to do something different.
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... We were out gunned and outplayed ... It reminded me of a Bruce performance. If you invite a team on for 90 minutes the chances are they are going to score. We just couldn't retain the ball and when we did get it invariably it ended with a hopeful punt ... I'm disappointed with Smith and the coaching team - they had no idea of how to get us into the game. But I don't think 3 at the back or two up front or even playing Jack in the middle will be some silver bullet. I came to the conclusion some time ago that most the players just aren't good enough. Our recruitment over the last two windows is nothing short of dreadful ...
This is a perfect summary of our current plight, which is why I think we are going down.
Wednesday is now a 'must-win': not so much from a points perspective (which is clearly important) but from a team morale perspective. We will probably lose to Spud'ead's Jawdie boys; another humiliation.
What we now need to do is (once again) rebuild, but with the view that every position in the squad is filled with capable and progressive players; giving us variety, strength in depth and complementariness. Reliance on 2 or 3 players each week doesn't do it. A squad that has Lansbury, Jota and Baston in it is not going anywhere but down!
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Have to disagree that we overpaid for Mings, £25m and he's a 27 year old England International. I think if we sold him he'd make a slight profit, and at the very least get our money back.
As we saw last time we went down, the offers we get will be low as PL clubs know 1. we will need to sell to balance the books and 2. Players will agitate for a move.
No way are we getting our money back on Mings. Have seen numbers as large as £100m banded around for Grealish, but can't see us getting more than £35-40m for him. We will not be in a strong negotiating position.
Suso needs binning before we spend any money next window, and Smith needs to go now to give us a chance of staying up.
If clubs offer £40m for Grealish, then we won't sell him.
Hope not, would rather keep him. But if the alternative is being blocked from promotion or a points deduction for breaching FFP he will go for a lower price than we would like.
... We were out gunned and outplayed ... It reminded me of a Bruce performance. If you invite a team on for 90 minutes the chances are they are going to score. We just couldn't retain the ball and when we did get it invariably it ended with a hopeful punt ... I'm disappointed with Smith and the coaching team - they had no idea of how to get us into the game. But I don't think 3 at the back or two up front or even playing Jack in the middle will be some silver bullet. I came to the conclusion some time ago that most the players just aren't good enough. Our recruitment over the last two windows is nothing short of dreadful ...
This is a perfect summary of our current plight, which is why I think we are going down.
Wednesday is now a 'must-win': not so much from a points perspective (which is clearly important) but from a team morale perspective. We will probably lose to Spud'ead's Jawdie boys; another humiliation.
What we now need to do is (once again) rebuild, but with the view that every position in the squad is filled with capable and progressive players; giving us variety, strength in depth and complementariness. Reliance on 2 or 3 players each week doesn't do it. A squad that has Lansbury, Jota and Baston in it is not going anywhere but down!
Those last three you mention were shit in the Championship last season also. Lansbury couldn't get a game, Jota was in and out at Blues, and Baston had done shite all at Swansea bar a flurry of goals at the start of this season.
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I always try to look for the positives after a game .I am positive that we are simply not good enough,positive that (sadly)Smith is completely out of his depth and positive that if he stays we will go down.
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... We were out gunned and outplayed ... It reminded me of a Bruce performance. If you invite a team on for 90 minutes the chances are they are going to score. We just couldn't retain the ball and when we did get it invariably it ended with a hopeful punt ... I'm disappointed with Smith and the coaching team - they had no idea of how to get us into the game. But I don't think 3 at the back or two up front or even playing Jack in the middle will be some silver bullet. I came to the conclusion some time ago that most the players just aren't good enough. Our recruitment over the last two windows is nothing short of dreadful ...
This is a perfect summary of our current plight, which is why I think we are going down.
Wednesday is now a 'must-win': not so much from a points perspective (which is clearly important) but from a team morale perspective. We will probably lose to Spud'ead's Jawdie boys; another humiliation.
What we now need to do is (once again) rebuild, but with the view that every position in the squad is filled with capable and progressive players; giving us variety, strength in depth and complementariness. Reliance on 2 or 3 players each week doesn't do it. A squad that has Lansbury, Jota and Baston in it is not going anywhere but down!
Those last three you mention were shit in the Championship last season also. Lansbury couldn't get a game, Jota was in and out at Blues, and Baston had done shite all at Swansea bar a flurry of goals at the start of this season.
Agreed - there's the irony of our squad fillers. We'd be better off giving a couple of enthusiastic youngsters a seat on the bench and some game-minutes.
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I always try to look for the positives after a game .I am positive that we are simply not good enough,positive that (sadly)Smith is completely out of his depth and positive that if he stays we will go down.
And more to the point, if he stays we will not get back up.
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The only positive was Luiz.
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I always try to look for the positives after a game .I am positive that we are simply not good enough,positive that (sadly)Smith is completely out of his depth and positive that if he stays we will go down.
And more to the point, if he stays we will not get back up.
We might so long as Suso isn't buying the players.
Given a decent squad Smith can set up a competivie team. He just seems to struggle with any plan B or C when handed an inadequate squad.
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Whether we stay up or go down, I cannot see the club sticking with Dean, which for me is a shame, i did believe that he was the man to take us forward, but after the last few performances i cannot see him staying (hopefully Terry will also be gone, when we scored yesterday, it seemed that he did not really want to applaud the goal against his beloved Chelsea!)
Purslow and Jesus will be under threat of losing their jobs as well, whether we stay up or go down.
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We might so long as Suso isn't buying the players.
Given a decent squad Smith can set up a competivie team. He just seems to struggle with any plan B or C when handed an inadequate squad.
I don't believe he was "handed" an inadequate squad. I agree it's inadequate but there are several very good players there (plus another couple who are improving well). I don't think his involvement in transfers is nil. Nor do I think his tactical inflexibility, inability to change a game in progress, his desperately unimaginative use of subs, his defensive organisation, and meek approach are down to the squad. It's just too simplistic to say it's Suso's fault and Dean's hands are tied.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
Unfortunately, as always seems to happen to us, he played for England and it started to go downhill from there.
For me, he hasn’t been the same player since, certainly not the Captain material some see in him.
I’m completely guessing here, but I think he’s had his had turned, possibly several times and reckon he’ll be gone at the end of the season, regardless of what division we are in.
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We might so long as Suso isn't buying the players.
Given a decent squad Smith can set up a competivie team. He just seems to struggle with any plan B or C when handed an inadequate squad.
I don't believe he was "handed" an inadequate squad. I agree it's inadequate but there are several very good players there (plus another couple who are improving well). I don't think his involvement in transfers is nil. Nor do I think his tactical inflexibility, inability to change a game in progress, his desperately unimaginative use of subs, his defensive organisation, and meek approach are down to the squad. It's just too simplistic to say it's Suso's fault and Dean's hands are tied.
I didn't say that. I said he struggles with a Plan B & C and so yes I think he's culpable.
But my suspicion is he has very little involvement in transfers and I do think if you just swapped the Wesley, Trez & Nakamba signings for 3 decent UK based players we'd have had far more chance off survival.
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Anyone expecting a result against Newcastle are in for disappointment after the way they put Sheff Utd away.
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we all predicted that at half time
predicted the subs
Predicted the result
Predicted the performance
We are the most predictable team with the most predictable manager in this league
(I’m all predictabled out now )
Predictable post match thread too.
We were awful bar a few minutes. We haven't got the personnel for the system we seem to attempt.
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Anyone expecting a result against Newcastle are in for disappointment after the way they put Sheff Utd away.
Especially when it got harder for them with Egan being sent off.
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We were awful bar a few minutes. We haven't got the personnel for the system we seem to attempt.
No and it sometimes feels like Smith selects the formation knowing the players do not fit it just to make the point. I agree Suso has left him with a set of players that do not suit his system, but he needs to get on with it and find a system that suits the players he has at his disposal.
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Please don't put words in my mouth Soccer HQ. Read what I said. It was nothing about MY choice of Smith, it was about THE choice of Smith. I made an objective observation about how he came to be chosen not whether he should have been chosen. You picked up on Clampy's claim that revisionists are at work judging Dean Smith. There may well be but there is a vast difference between revisionism which by definition means reinterpretation of a decision and the ongoing reassessment of the success of a decision. Nowhere in any walk of life are performances not subject to ongoing scrutiny. That is not revisionism, it is the duty of any holder of authority.
You don't think he was worthy of being on the shortlist though if we were shortlisting 6 realistic candidates at the time? He'd done steady worked at Brentford and IIRC they'd started that season pretty well and think if he'd stayed the full season they'd have been in the top 6 just like they are now. They actually went on a terrible winless run after he left which put them out of contention.
He was a worthy candidate at the time and did what he was asked six months later in getting us promoted. Ultimately all this season has shown is he's too wet behind the ears to manage yet in the premier league.
I don't think it's too much different to Graham Potter at brighton who before their shock win were only 3 points clear and Brighton are a more established team at premier level.
Probably shows how much we messed up in the summer that guys like Shane Duffy (who can't even get in the Brighton team now) and Aaron Mooy would've probably kept us up.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
I actually don't think it's a given that we lose Mings if we go down - not sure anyone in the Prem would come in for him.
Given what we paid for him we'd need to get 25-40m for him and I don't think anyone will bid that. We shouldn't need the money if Jack goes so may be a question of whether Mings digs his heels in to get a transfer.
On this seasons form I won't be that bothered to see him leave. Grealish is the one that we would miss, no other player is a big loss on this seasons showing.
Keeping Mings and McGinn would make bouncing straight back so much easier though. We know both are top class in the championship.
Mings would want to keep his England place ahead of euros and probably a Leicester or Everton would take a punt on him as a squad player.
This does remind of 2016 a bit. People laughing when clubs come in for Adama, Veretout etc and then 2-3 years later these guys are key players for clubs in the CL/europa along with Gana and Amavi. Just like then some that leave will go on to do very well in their careers, Douglas Luiz I suspect for one.
Edit: We also don't know which players who signed last summer have release clauses in them. Within weeks of our last relegation we quickly discovered Gana had one and left for a very low fee considering his ability which he's certainly shown since leaving us.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
Isn't it just a case of Mings not being as great as we all thought he is or would be at this level? In the Championship he's incredible. It's a massive step up to be a top PL defender. And I am sure a number of our other current players would look brilliant at a lower level too.
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We might so long as Suso isn't buying the players.
Given a decent squad Smith can set up a competivie team. He just seems to struggle with any plan B or C when handed an inadequate squad.
I don't believe he was "handed" an inadequate squad. I agree it's inadequate but there are several very good players there (plus another couple who are improving well). I don't think his involvement in transfers is nil. Nor do I think his tactical inflexibility, inability to change a game in progress, his desperately unimaginative use of subs, his defensive organisation, and meek approach are down to the squad. It's just too simplistic to say it's Suso's fault and Dean's hands are tied.
I didn't say that. I said he struggles with a Plan B & C and so yes I think he's culpable.
But my suspicion is he has very little involvement in transfers and I do think if you just swapped the Wesley, Trez & Nakamba signings for 3 decent UK based players we'd have had far more chance off survival.
Smith had to have been key to both the Jota and Konsa signings for starters. He also had tried to sign Engels at Brentford and he would have known all about Targett from his time at Southampton/Fulham. None of these have been a success either. Plus Smith said at the start of the season that he has final say on them all so unfortunately he can't hide from that now.
Like Fulham, we got the balance badly wrong in our recruitment last summer. Especially with so much change with experienced pros leaving, we should have supplemented the young guns with experienced pros at this level with still something to offer. Luiz and Guilbert are the two with the most potential I think, many of the others look duds I'm afraid.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
Isn't it just a case of Mings not being as great as we all thought he is or would be at this level? In the Championship he's incredible. It's a massive step up to be a top PL defender. And I am sure a number of our other current players would look brilliant at a lower level too.
I think Mings (and Hause) have played well post-lockdown. Won everything in the air against Chelsea. The problem has been the TOTAL absence of coherence and creativity going forward. For sure, that pair's distribution doesn't help with that but defensively they've been fine.
The first Chelski goal was a brilliant ball in - unplayable - the problem is continually letting crosses come in. Sooner or later a team of Chelsea's quality will whip in a corker. Whether this is down to poor full backs or poor tactics I don't know, but it's been a problem all season and needs to be addressed.
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I can tell you now he’s going to blame the fact that the league allowed five subs and ‘you only have to look at their bench to see the difference.’ Or words to that effect. Overlooking our £140m bric a brac purchases.
Apart from Tammy who obviously left, Jack, SJM and Mings were our best players last year and they still are despite the 140 million spent whatever it is. Jack has been pretty good all year, SJM was good up to his injury and despite Tyrone being a bit casual at times, he is still the best defender in our ranks and a good leader too. That says alot about our summer signings. Then considering we were already struggling going into the January window, the team we started with yesterday could have played in December (barring injury) so that would seem another wasted opportunity. The 3 we did sign were on the bench.
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I don't think the cbs did alot wrong but you simply can not allow teams to constantly attack you with no respite. The MF just sat as an extra layer of defenders yesterday no one could hold the ball for any time for us to just settle down on the ball.
This is why in a game like this you should be moving Grealish central and trying to get him on ball to drive forward or to play balls forward to attackers. There is no point having him out on the wing if the players can't get the ball to him.
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Mings has been a massive, massive disappointment this year.
Isn't it just a case of Mings not being as great as we all thought he is or would be at this level? In the Championship he's incredible. It's a massive step up to be a top PL defender. And I am sure a number of our other current players would look brilliant at a lower level too.
Well he struggled to get into the Bournemouth team who are down there with us. Also think the international callup appeared to go to his head a bit, made a series of unforced errors after it that cost us. Fancies himself too much as a footballing centre half for my liking, Paul McGrath he aint.
Like Hourihane he has a horrible lack of balance on his right side, not just with passing or clearing the ball he doesn't even like turning onto it. Still he has been solid enough first two games back, granted against very limited forwards like Giroud yesterday.
McGrath at his peak would struggle behind our porous defence though. Teams have walked through our midfield all season and that's not Mings fault.
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Ironically I can see a team like Arsenal going for Mings. Let's face it, John Stones is stealing a living at Man City. I'm not sure I think he's had his head turned or whatever, but he's far from irreplaceable and if we get back what we paid or a little bit more that's more than enough to cover a Championship replacement.
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I disagree on Mings. You've only got to look at what Bristol wanted for Webster. When we come calling with a Grealish sized wedge in our pockets clubs will try to fleece us for what they can. I haven't got much confidence that we're going to find a better Championship centre half for £20-£25m.
I think he genuinely loves it at the Villa. If we go down and can persuade him to stay, I think as Captain he could be vital in leading us back.
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The only positive was Luiz.
Targett impressed me for the second game running, something this season I never thought I'd say.
Other than him, the only other positive was the state of the pitch (again).
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Targett impressed me for the second game running, something this season I never thought I'd say.
Really? Chelsea fucked us ragged down his side all day. He couldn't cope with it.
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Targett impressed me for the second game running, something this season I never thought I'd say.
Really? Chelsea fucked us ragged down his side all day. He couldn't cope with it.
Targett tucks in really narrow, leaving him prone to the quick crossfield switch. He hasn't got the pace to get out to his man quickly when it happens.
Man City used the tactic at Wembley (Foden had a field day) and Chelsea copied it yesterday. In fact, Sunday's game reminded me of the Cup Final in a lot of ways. The management team spoke about taking the positives from that one too, then we got spanked by Leicester in our next game. Ultimately, we're more likely to lose by three or four than sneak a win playing like we did yesterday.
I could see signs of what we'd worked on over the break against Sheffield United but yesterday was just depressing. 2 points from 45 against teams in the top half, our competitors just don't have the same inferiority complex as us when we play them. We're just letting these teams knock it around at will and trying to defend our own box. It's a risky strategy and hardly ever works over 90 minutes.
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Targett impressed me for the second game running, something this season I never thought I'd say.
Really? Chelsea fucked us ragged down his side all day. He couldn't cope with it.
By his usual standards I thought it was an improvement. His hairband however..
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An Alice Band ffs. A tiara next.
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If I was Smith I'd insist all players shave their hair off. They're too busy trying to look like footballers rather than acting like one. Tossers, the lot of them.
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I hoped I would feel better by now, but still so angry at that performance yesterday. I just can't think of one reason why our coaching and managerial team thought the approach and team set up was correct yesterday. The lack of closing down, continually letting Chelsea cross from wide areas, was almost laughable. I hoped that during the lockdown, DS might have been able to reflect on where things were going wrong, but it appears nothing has changed. I for one am accepting relegation and more seasons in the Championship.
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You can always tell when a manager knows the game plan isn’t going well. They always say things like, I couldn’t ask any more from my players. If he really thought that he really has lost the plot. What I witnessed were quite a few of our players taking it a bit like a stroll in the park. What we, as fans, should really be hearing from our manager is that he’s going to do his very best to actually motivate the team and that he can change formation during any given match. Can you imagine what someone like Pearson would have said to his players after that half hearted attempt yesterday. Answers on a postcard please.
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If he starts saying "I thought we were excellent, I really did" over and over again in dull Scottish accent it will be time for an intervention.
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Can you imagine him sitting down with the players to rewatch that and telling them it went well ..
Ok lads you didnt have the ball for 80% of the game but you ran around alot , well done
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Anyone expecting a result against Newcastle are in for disappointment after the way they put Sheff Utd away.
Especially when it got harder for them with Egan being sent off.
<cough cough> <snigger snigger>
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Can you imagine him sitting down with the players to rewatch that and telling them it went well ..
Ok lads you didnt have the ball for 80% of the game but you ran around alot , well done
we could get Hogan back to do that
he was brilliant at running around a lot
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Hogan in his current/recent form would probably be a better option than what we have. Jesus.
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The team and the manager looked overawed by that Chelsea team, I believe they didn’t think they could win this game. Why did we keep such a narrow shape which leaves teams virtually unopposed to put crosses into the box we rarely show for throw ins and we lack nous. Jack Grealish is constantly fouled do we. collectively get into the refs ear! I can’t believe the owners are looking on with indifference hoping we will find it easy to bounce back from the championship with this current set set up.
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You can't defend as deeply as we did for most of the game. Big Keinan was twenty yards or more from the nearest team-mate and was almost completely isolated.
When your back-line drops deep, your midfield often follows. We used to see this sometimes with Bruce in charge at the second level; now we're getting it higher up the ratings.
Oh, and Grealish as an auxillary left-back? Didn't we sack TSM some while back?