Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: martin@ardenley on May 14, 2020, 08:29:07 PM
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In May 2000 Aston Villa demolished its famous stand. Mac McColgan wonders if its replacement will match up (From WSC 167 January 2001).
Could anybody argue that the Trinity Road Stand was not the finest in the history of football? Its redbrick façade, twin towers, stained glass windows, Italian mosaics and gable bearing the “Lion rampant” were the best that money could buy in 1924. Four years ago, wheels were set in motion to redevelop the stand. Various schemes were put forward for planning permission, each one rejected as the club battled with local residents and Birmingham City Council over the increased capacity and intrusion into nearby Aston Hall Park.
Villa fans were led to believe that the famous old stand was a listed building and could not be demolished, but this was untrue. However, I recall a discussion with Mark Ansell, Villa’s finance director, when he said the club would try to save as much as the old stand as possible, and that he wouldn’t be held responsible for his actions if anyone damaged one of the treasured mosaics.
Unfortunately, I failed to press him on exactly what he meant by “try” and “as much as possible”. The only part now remaining from the old stand is one of the mosaics, which is in pieces somewhere at the ground while the club decide whether to put the pieces back together or sell them.
Last year, a scheme was finally approved. Villa’s new stand would be built on stilts over the road behind it. Details of the plan were scarce. The club did not originally publish them anywhere and it soon became apparent why. The approved scheme would mean the complete demolition of the old stand.
Work started in May. It was a sickening sight, made less palatable by seeing chairman Doug Ellis on TV that evening shedding what I would describe as crocodile tears as the bulldozers moved in. As work pressed on, how-ever, it became clear that everything was not progressing as planned. The deadline for completion, the first home match of the season, came with the stand less than half finished. Season ticket holders were forced to sit in other parts of the ground. Then, on November 17, contractors Christiani Neilsen went into liquidation. Christiani was quite a small company, inexperienced in the field of stadium construction, but, unlike in 1924, cheaper than some of the alternatives. Their problem was that they took on too many big contracts all at the same time, including the Sunderland Metro.
Things aren’t as bad for Villa as they might have been. The club saw Christiani’s collapse coming and decided to manage the rest of the project in-house, quickly signing up several sub-contractors. Work on the site was only set back about a week.
However, Ansell’s claim that “because the project is now under the direct control of Aston Villa we are now in a position to accelerate the construction work” caused some raised eyebrows. If the club could do it quicker, what was the point in involving a construction company in the first place? Still, with most of the external construction completed, Ansell is confident all three tiers of the stand will be available for use on Boxing Day.
Some questions remain. It seems hard to understand why, when three stands have been built in the last seven years, they have apparently not been designed to complement one other. There appears to have been little fore-sight in the redevelopment of Villa Park as a whole. Then there is the new stand’s name. It looks set to retain the name “Trinity Road”, but it might be worth a long shot on the “Doug Ellis West Stand”.
And, of course, there is the most prickly question of all: can we fill it?
If you have some hankies handy, you can read and see all of Mac's Diary of Destruction (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dN8MOfEn4JRETlwU8CnZvmW2FwcqYcA1/view?usp=sharing)
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In the week that Villa prepared to meet Chelsea in the FA Cup Final, the air around Aston was filled with the sound of bulldozers as the demolition men got to work on our beloved and beautiful Trinity Road stand. Since 1923 the mighty red-brick structure with its stained glass windows and gorgeous Italian marble mosaics had come to represent Aston Villa and was for many the most globally recognised symbol of the club. It wasn't just the outside that was wonderful either, remember the delicately curved claret and blue wall at the front of the top tier – I’m looking at a picture of it now and getting a bit tearful – or the majestic gable that boomed out the importance and stature of the Villa. All this meant nothing to Doug Ellis, though. Rangers, with their equally majestic main stand at Ibrox, had shown that a sensitive update was possible, but Doug preferred complete demolition and replacement not with an iconic, modern statement of equal architectural merit but with a complete carbuncle. A bit of Aston Villa died when the Trinity came down and for some of us things have never been quite the same since. (Richard Whitehead - The Times Online 01/09/08)
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I'm in a FB group that's all about stadia, the old Trinity is often mentioned by fans of other clubs. Often with comments along the lines of "it's criminal it was knocked down". VP in general, both old and new is highly thought of.
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I will never forgive Ellis for this.
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1. I will forever remember Ian Robathan and his black shirt protest.
2. I will forever remember a game against Bradford when I had traveled up from Brighton and you could see much more of the motorway network than you would ever wish to see. Gareth Southgate scored a goal when he was looking for a move. It was like a J.G. Balllard novel.
3. It had be replaced, but FFS Doug.
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Cheap and nasty, like the bloke that commissioned it.
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Thanks for posting Martin, great photos of the old girl. Such a shame it wasn’t listed so it couldn’t have been torn down and replaced.
Happy memories of sitting in the middle of the top tier when I was 12 watching us against Athletico Madrid, magical night in a truly classic football stand in the best ground in the land.
The new one is a good stand but will never have the charm and class of the old one.
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With a few exceptions, we've been mostly bollocks since 2000.
Difficult to function with the heart ripped out.
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Ikea flat pack replacing Chippendale.
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I never looked at the facade of Sunderland's Stadium o' Shite or Boro's Riverside with a tinge of the green eyed monster.
Ellis obviously did.
I'll never be convinced of the need for a total demolition when you see the sympathetic treatment Rangers were able to give their main stand of a similar vintage.
But let's say for the sake of argument the old stand was beyond repair (which is how the club briefed it - off the record - to a few people years after), the new design could still have been more sympathetic with a nod to the past. The mosaics, the gable etc could all have been incorporated.
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As I have said before the vandalism was threefold. Firstly the lost building was of immense architectural value encapsulating as it did the emergence of a genre of mass attendace sports stadiums, secondly it was of great social significance, a milestone of the idustrial development of urban communities and thirdly it was a building held in great affection by football supporters. Three reasons it should have been protected 1. Architectural 2. Historical 3. Emotional.
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As I have said before the vandalism was threefold. Firstly the lost building was of immense architectural value encapsulating as it did the emergence of a genre of mass attendace sports stadiums, secondly it was of great social significance, a milestone of the idustrial development of urban communities and thirdly it was a building held in great affection by football supporters. Three reasons it should have been protected 1. Architectural 2. Historical 3. Emotional.
Indeed. And not just by our supporters.
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I have a personal guilt about the whole episode. As part of the architectural profession working in Birmingham at the time we should have mounted a better defence. The only defence I can offer is that we were fighting on so many fronts against the Philistines. We scrambled to prevent the Gas Street Basin becoming a National Car Parks asset and to save one or two of the best pubs becoming plastic and pine panelling Spud U Like manifestations.
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We have a stand named after the bloke that did that. Fucking corner shop ******.
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The Professional Footballers Association paid £1.6 million for the L S Lowry painting "Going To The Match" that displays the elevation of the home of Blackburn Rovers. We had our own real bricks and mortar Lowry to experience every time we went to Villa Park. What did we do? We destroyed it.
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Did it cost Rangers significantly more to incorporate their old stand into the new?
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Quite possibly. But some things you don't scrimp on.
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Absolutely. If the Arts Council can, rightly, use taxpayers' money to protect that which is most important in the fabric of our civilization, football grounds in the hearts of industrial cities must qualify to be guarded from the financial bean counters.
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I mentioned Gas St Basin. It was a very close run thing to save that heritage. When Bill Clinton as US President came to Birmingham where did they take him? Gas St Basin. If we had lost they would have had to take him to Baskerville House and show him a photocopy of the cheque National Car Parks paid the council.
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Amazing pictures of an iconic football stand. Living in Lancashire now I talk to lots of fans from all of the local clubs, and all of them love Villa Park, and lots of them talk with great fondness of the old Holte End and the old Trinity Road stand. I guarantee you this that if Villa Park was on Merseyside or in Manchester then it would be a national treasure and most likely a listed building.
There is an opportunity though for surely in the not too distant future the North stand will need to be redeveloped. Could it not be done sympathetically with a nod to our past and incorporate a mosaic and made out of brick instead of metal sheeting. Here's hoping. UTV
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It does follow the pattern in Birmingham of replacing old unique buildings with cheaper box standard versions and tearing up the places that made Brum what it was.
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The North is probably iconic in its own right now.
Built mid 70s, it was the first (and prob still best) of those brutalist structures. Often replicated, never bettered. Sort the concourses and facilities in the back. In fact completely rebuild the back. Jet washes every few years won't cut it. Plus if Celtic can manage heated seats in their upper tiers, no reason why the North Stand can't get them. Aside from that, keep.
If there's one stand worthy of demolishing and starting again it's the Doug Ellis. It's ripe for a newer design, with that smaller mid tier so beloved of the corporates.
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The Wilton really is an awful stand, no character, upper tier concourse is far too small, facade is forgettable. Another Doug classic.
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The North is probably iconic in its own right now.
Built mid 70s, it was the first (and prob still best) of those brutalist structures. Often replicated, never bettered. Sort the concourses and facilities in the back. In fact completely rebuild the back. Jet washes every few years won't cut it. Plus if Celtic can manage heated seats in their upper tiers, no reason why the North Stand can't get them. Aside from that, keep.
If there's one stand worthy of demolishing and starting again it's the Doug Ellis. It's ripe for a newer design, with that smaller mid tier so beloved of the corporates.
Agreed on both parts.
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I agree the refurbishment of the ground under Doug's tenure is awful
Why we could not have had a 1 tier holte end (I am sure that the architects can tell us) and I hate those boxes that have been added onto the trinity stand at the end by the Holte again awful!
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The folk legend, which could remotely possibly be true, is the brutalist architecture of the North Stand came about by HDE demanding that the structure could be added to to incorporate an hotel at some future date. Like the bicycle kick it is probably a fantasy.
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I agree the refurbishment of the ground under Doug's tenure is awful
Why we could not have had a 1 tier holte end (I am sure that the architects can tell us) and I hate those boxes that have been added onto the trinity stand at the end by the Holte again awful!
I think it was said at the time that a one tiered stand would not have fitted into the available footprint given the location of Trinity Road, and that sight lines from the rear would have been poor if it was possible.
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The folk legend, which could remotely possibly be true, is the brutalist architecture of the North Stand came about by HDE demanding that the structure could be added to to incorporate an hotel at some future date. Like the bicycle kick it is probably a fantasy.
I'm sure that an an AGM many years ago, Ellis or Steve Stride said that by coincidence the North Stand was built in such a way that it could be converted to a hotel. Steve later told me that he couldn't remember, and I've no reason to doubt him.
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At the time I couldn't understand why the rebuild wasn't, at the very least, more sympathetic.
For a start, the new Trinity was built 5 years after the Holte End redevelopment and that stand's facade was a specific nod to the old Trinity. Surely the new Trinity should have, externally, looked like the new Holte End and thereby most would have been relatively happy? Instead the new stand was a mess (though I think it looks well from inside the ground).
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The only time at which I personally touched briefly on the potential future of VP was when the firm of architects for whom I worked were commissioned to find hotel sites on or near the M6 by a French hotel chain. They fancied VP but we could not make access work without a lump of Aston Park. So we moved on.
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The only time at which I personally touched briefly on the potential future of VP was when the firm of architects for whom I worked were commissioned to find hotel sites on or near the M6 by a French hotel chain. They fancied VP but we could not make access work without a lump of Aston Park. So we moved on.
Did they end up building that crappy Hotel Campanile off the ring road by the Waterlinks building instead?
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Not on my watch. They may have done when I did other stuff. We worked on the one by Hilton Services and the one on the old Stewarts and Lloyds site. The way life goes in circles, my son's Italian boss is looking for hotel sites near the motorway network these days. Plus ca change Plus c'est la meme chose.
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The old stand had to go because it looked lovely but wasn't suitable for the modern age. I don't know whether any significant part could have been saved but it was definitely said that the mosaic and gable were staying.
The design of the new one is perfectly fine and there's a lot to commend it but the overall finish was done on the cheap. A comparatively small amount extra could have made it something special.
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The old stand had to go because it looked lovely but wasn't suitable for the modern age. I don't know whether any significant part could have been saved but it was definitely said that the mosaic and gable were staying.
The design of the new one is perfectly fine and there's a lot to commend it but the overall finish was done on the cheap. A comparatively small amount extra could have made it something special.
As an earlier poster said, given the effort put into the facade of the Holte it seems stupid then finish the Trinity as it is.
Stupid unless your prime motivation is the accumulation of pennies, of course.
Lot's of our ground works ended up 'in house', didn't they? The Master Businessman also liked to be a Master Builder too.
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The old stand had to go because it looked lovely but wasn't suitable for the modern age. I don't know whether any significant part could have been saved but it was definitely said that the mosaic and gable were staying.
The design of the new one is perfectly fine and there's a lot to commend it but the overall finish was done on the cheap. A comparatively small amount extra could have made it something special.
As an earlier poster said, given the effort put into the facade of the Holte it seems stupid then finish the Trinity as it is.
Stupid unless your prime motivation is the accumulation of pennies, of course.
Lot's of our ground works ended up 'in house', didn't they? The Master Businessman also liked to be a Master Builder too.
That was the daft thing. Everything was built differently to what was already there except the Holte, and that was built to match something that was demolished six years later.
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Wasn't it under Lerner that lot of the facade work was done on the Holte?
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Common decency normally prevents you from denigrating the dead, In the case of Doug and his wilful destruction of a piece of footballs iconic past I make an exception, Doug was a small minded , self Idolating , opinionated twat.
Apart from that he was a C**t as well.
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I remember see the finished new Trinity for the first time, walking down from Aston station toward the Holte and thinking how cheap it looked.
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I remember see the finished new Trinity for the first time, walking down from Aston station toward the Holte and thinking how cheap it looked.
And that's the annoying thing. It looks cheap but the same design could easily have looked spectacular.
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The external entrance couldn’t be any worse if it tried... even 90s smoked glass would look better than the hotch potch of doors and glass...
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It's a shame.
Was watching euro 96 re-run of Dutch-Scotland the other day and old Trinity looked majestic especially with the mosaic.
Ultimately it had to be rebuilt in some way due to the pillars and I assume lack of coporate facilities and also directors/press box being cramped but as many have said in the past we could've reconfigured the seating while building a new tier above.
When you look at the rebuild the lower tier is pretty much the same design. Overall I'd say visually Villa Park still looks fantastic when the camera pans around at the start of the game especially if the Trinity is packed out as it's been for pretty much all the games this season (not so much when top tier would be about 1/4 full in plenty of games in past season) but when you sit in the top tier it does feel pretty cramped especially in the concourses.
Edit: A few times I was going to post new stand but of course it's pretty much 20 years old! What we did do well is get it up running pretty quickly. I remember going to see Ginola paraded in the July and it was a building site still yet by December most of it was up and open to the fans. Think we hosted an England game that season aswell v Spain.
Plenty of clubs since have taken a whole season to rebuild an end behind the goal, Wolves for one.
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The external entrance couldn’t be any worse if it tried... even 90s smoked glass would look better than the hotch potch of doors and glass...
I've never done coporate in Trinity (nor any other stand come to think of it!) but I've always quite liked walking up from the Holte side and seeing that corporate lounge above (not the one in the corner of the two stands). Would imagine guests from outside who've not reguarly been to VP would marvel at the view of the park/Aston Hall and also the crowds streaming in from Aston station.
Even though it was only built five years before the Witton feels much more dated now. Good views but again pretty cramped in the concourse. Guess we're restricted to what we can do in the future with the housing.
Seems ground improvements aren't an immediate concern for the owners but interested what VP will look like in May 2030 given the desire for big improvement on the pitch.
I believe our ground has slipped a bit in the Uefa finals pecking order aswell with all the new builds in last decade, not sure when it was last shortlisted to host a europa final.
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It was the last CWC final, I think.
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Someone said (possibly here) that the original Trinity was commissioned at a time when only the best was good enough for Aston Villa.
The current effort was the embodiment of Ellis' 'that'll do' approach.
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Lerner spent a few million bringing the internal corporate facilities up to a decent standard and it is pretty good inside. The views of the park are good and the middle tier gives you a great view of the match. It’s just crap outside. It looks like the type of office thats attached to a big warehouse...
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The Wilton really is an awful stand, no character, upper tier concourse is far too small, facade is forgettable. Another Doug classic.
Lovely carpets though.
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Common decency normally prevents you from denigrating the dead, In the case of Doug and his wilful destruction of a piece of footballs iconic past I make an exception, Doug was a small minded , self Idolating , opinionated twat.
Apart from that he was a C**t as well.
Don't sit on the fence mate!
You're bang right of course.
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You are right of course. Doug Ellis got a unique hat trick of pissing off me and my two sons in three separate instances. Green D. hijacking a centre circle television interview with Paul Merson, Green L attempting to hijack a television series about youth football, Green B. hijacking information about national stadium cost projections. He was a complete menace.
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The most telling comment from the OP "why when 3 stands were built in 7 years were they not designed to compliment each other?" Entirely due to the penny pinching ways of Ellis.
We ended up with a hotch potch and the baffling situation at the front right of the Holte at a completely different rake to the DE corner. And don't get me started on the North Stand. The blandness of the design only matched by the blandness of the name they bestowed on it. However, after saying all that there's still something special about a packed Villa Park especially on a big occasion under the lights. Somehow it seems to work when really it shouldn't. It's our very own Mona Lisa.
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Someone said (possibly here) that the original Trinity was commissioned at a time when only the best was good enough for Aston Villa.
The current effort was the embodiment of Ellis' 'that'll do' approach.
That might have been me in the original post.
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The most telling comment from the OP "why when 3 stands were built in 7 years were they not designed to compliment each other?" Entirely due to the penny pinching ways of Ellis.
We ended up with a hotch potch and the baffling situation at the front right of the Holte at a completely different rake to the DE corner. And don't get me started on the North Stand. The blandness of the design only matched by the blandness of the name they bestowed on it. However, after saying all that there's still something special about a packed Villa Park especially on a big occasion under the lights. Somehow it seems to work when really it shouldn't. It's our very own Mona Lisa.
I remember Ellis having a thing about the corners and that the roofs of the stands had to be the same height, that was only joined up thinking he had.
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Probably because he was a Freemason to whom right angles have great significance.
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It was the last CWC final, I think.
Think we had a go at hosting a Uefa cup final a few years afterwards. Plenty of grounds below 40k have hosted that since it isn't a capacity issue.
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Someone said (possibly here) that the original Trinity was commissioned at a time when only the best was good enough for Aston Villa.
The current effort was the embodiment of Ellis' 'that'll do' approach.
That might have been me in the original post.
Shhhh. I told them you were dead. We had a collection.
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Someone said (possibly here) that the original Trinity was commissioned at a time when only the best was good enough for Aston Villa.
The current effort was the embodiment of Ellis' 'that'll do' approach.
That might have been me in the original post.
Is that really you or an impersonator?
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Someone said (possibly here) that the original Trinity was commissioned at a time when only the best was good enough for Aston Villa.
The current effort was the embodiment of Ellis' 'that'll do' approach.
That might have been me in the original post.
Mac, great to see you post, I do hope you are well. Dave no doubt kept the collection money he raised for you.
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The revisionism about "Good old Doug" when he sat on the Holte etc really stuck in my craw because of the Trinity. As a student of football ground design it made me immensely proud that we had such an iconic and grand main stand, so it's wanton destruction was heartbreaking.
While the exterior of the new stand is poor, post Lerner the interior is fabulous with quality fixtures and fittings, stained glass and, in the corporate areas at least, a sense of the old construction. Yes, it's something of a pastiche but the grand old building is now gone forever so we must look forward. The four separate entities that make up our ground give it an unusual air and feel in the age of sleek curves and symmetry and I hope it remains this way for some time to come. I have a real affection for the North Stand now as well, it's goalpost design, brutalist concrete is of it's time and I have found myself watching the majority of our games from there recently. Yes the concourse is cramped, facilities rather poor but it affords an great vantage point in which to "watch" not only the game but the actual ground in action as it were. From participant on the Holte to observer from the other end in my dotage there is no finer sight than Villa Park in full regalia, the noise, the colour and the atmosphere. That camera position from the North Stand, showing goals (and hands reaching up as the ball hits the net), the full time reports from our games or all those semi finals is part of the rich tapestry that makes our home one of the most iconic in football.
I don't want joined up roofs, filled in corners and order. I want individuality, the view of the M6 or Aston Church between the stands, instantly recognisable structures and the continuation of that thrill I always feel as I approach what can absolutely be called a cathedral of football.
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Superb Nev, I concur with every point made.
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Yes indeed, an excellent post by Nev. Having watched games over several (7) decades from from all points of the ground, but most often sat in the old Trinity Road and stood on the old Holte, I do now find a special feel watching from the Upper North (for all it's deficiencies).
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I've said it many times; if you prefer watching from behind the goal there's no better place in football than the first few rows of the Upper North Stand.
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Superb Nev
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I've said it many times; if you prefer watching from behind the goal there's no better place in football than the first few rows of the Upper North Stand.
Oh there is Dave.
The back few rows of the same stand offer the same wonderful view, only they're about £100 cheaper over the season.
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“ I have a real affection for the North Stand now as well, it's goalpost design, brutalist concrete is of it's time and I have found myself watching the majority of our games from there recently.”
Plus the fact we’ve watched us beat Small Heath about half a dozen times from up there.
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I will never forgive Ellis for this.
This all day long and for a few extra bob that got us nowhere.
The old stand had to go because it looked lovely but wasn't suitable for the modern age. I don't know whether any significant part could have been saved but it was definitely said that the mosaic and gable were staying.
The design of the new one is perfectly fine and there's a lot to commend it but the overall finish was done on the cheap. A comparatively small amount extra could have made it something special.
Villa Park and Ibrox appear to fairly similar amongst the main UK grounds i.e. the four separate stands although the latter's home end isn't as well know as the Holte. However I am jealous that they retained their Main Stand in the way they did. So
1) Could the Trinity have been updated in a similar manner to their Main Stand or did the design preclude this? If so I suspect Lerner in his early years would have handled the update far more gracefully.
2) What happened to the Lion Rampant above the seats which to me symbolised Villa Park more than the gables?
I'm not a fan of the North Stand (structure or name) and would like to see a new stand with a similar exterior to the Holte there.
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I will never forgive Ellis for this.
This all day long and for a few extra bob that got us nowhere.
The old stand had to go because it looked lovely but wasn't suitable for the modern age. I don't know whether any significant part could have been saved but it was definitely said that the mosaic and gable were staying.
The design of the new one is perfectly fine and there's a lot to commend it but the overall finish was done on the cheap. A comparatively small amount extra could have made it something special.
Villa Park and Ibrox appear to fairly similar amongst the main UK grounds i.e. the four separate stands although the latter's home end isn't as well know as the Holte. However I am jealous that they retained their Main Stand in the way they did. So
1) Could the Trinity have been updated in a similar manner to their Main Stand or did the design preclude this? If so I suspect Lerner in his early years would have handled the update far more gracefully.
2) What happened to the Lion Rampant above the seats which to me symbolised Villa Park more than the gables?
I'm not a fan of the North Stand (structure or name) and would like to see a new stand with a similar exterior to the Holte there.
Simon Inglis - who should know more about it than anyone else - once told me that we couldn't do what Rangers did for some reason that I've long forgotten. It might have been connected with the space they had available for expansion. The Lion Rampant went the same way as the stained glass, the mosaic and all the other sundries we were assured would be saved - into thousands of pieces.
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Simon Inglis - who should know more about it than anyone else - once told me that we couldn't do what Rangers did for some reason that I've long forgotten. It might have been connected with the space they had available for expansion. The Lion Rampant went the same way as the stained glass, the mosaic and all the other sundries we were assured would be saved - into thousands of pieces.
Thanks for that Dave, it's at least some consolation that it would have had to be replaced eventually even if it could have done much better.
Shame about the Lion Rampant as surely that (or a version thereof) could have been incorporated into the new stand.
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Simon Inglis - who should know more about it than anyone else - once told me that we couldn't do what Rangers did for some reason that I've long forgotten. It might have been connected with the space they had available for expansion. The Lion Rampant went the same way as the stained glass, the mosaic and all the other sundries we were assured would be saved - into thousands of pieces.
Thanks for that Dave, it's at least some consolation that it would have had to be replaced eventually even if it could have done much better.
Shame about the Lion Rampant as surely that (or a version thereof) could have been incorporated into the new stand.
I was also told that for the whole stand it as a case of knock down before it falls down, and you might want to think about whether it was being properly maintained before then.
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Simon Inglis - who should know more about it than anyone else - once told me that we couldn't do what Rangers did for some reason that I've long forgotten. It might have been connected with the space they had available for expansion. The Lion Rampant went the same way as the stained glass, the mosaic and all the other sundries we were assured would be saved - into thousands of pieces.
Thanks for that Dave, it's at least some consolation that it would have had to be replaced eventually even if it could have done much better.
Shame about the Lion Rampant as surely that (or a version thereof) could have been incorporated into the new stand.
I was also told that for the whole stand it as a case of knock down before it falls down, and you might want to think about whether it was being properly maintained before then.
Weren't there rumours in about 1996 that the Trinity Road Stand was about to get a new tier added on top of the existing stand? I seem to remember it being mentioned that there would be reduced capacity while the work was done. I may be thinking of another stand but I am 90% certain this was in relation to the old Trinity.
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Simon Inglis - who should know more about it than anyone else - once told me that we couldn't do what Rangers did for some reason that I've long forgotten. It might have been connected with the space they had available for expansion. The Lion Rampant went the same way as the stained glass, the mosaic and all the other sundries we were assured would be saved - into thousands of pieces.
Thanks for that Dave, it's at least some consolation that it would have had to be replaced eventually even if it could have done much better.
Shame about the Lion Rampant as surely that (or a version thereof) could have been incorporated into the new stand.
I was also told that for the whole stand it as a case of knock down before it falls down, and you might want to think about whether it was being properly maintained before then.
Weren't there rumours in about 1996 that the Trinity Road Stand was about to get a new tier added on top of the existing stand? I seem to remember it being mentioned that there would be reduced capacity while the work was done. I may be thinking of another stand but I am 90% certain this was in relation to the old Trinity.
Yes I think that was the original plan in mid 90s I think. A few weeks back I was flicking through a book of old programmes from 96/97 which I purchased at Villa Village about 15 years ago (there's a 12 year old Gary Cahill pictured as a guest at one of the games!). I remember coming across some talk of this but apparently Birmingham city council had refused planning permission at that time. Will have a look in a bit.
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I think an extra tier on top of the Trinity was a non starter as an engineering project for numerous reasons. Lack of space being one of them. Also from memory wasn't the upper tier entirely made of wood? If so after the fire at Bradford it's days were numbered. But i do think some of the features could of been saved especially the red brick staircase outside. It's too late now thanks to Doug and while the exterior is a bit B&Q warehouse it's pretty impressive on the inside. But for me the North Stand with it's ugly brutalist exterior horribly cramped interior and inadequate capacity of 7,500 has to go.
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“ I have a real affection for the North Stand now as well, it's goalpost design, brutalist concrete is of it's time and I have found myself watching the majority of our games from there recently.”
Plus the fact we’ve watched us beat Small Heath about half a dozen times from up there.
Yep, that does help.
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Simon Inglis article.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2000/may/14/newsstory.sport8
"Dennis Swain, the new stand's architect, insists that Villa will salvage as much as they can from the old building; the mosaics and the distinctive roof gable in particular..."
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Simon Inglis article.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2000/may/14/newsstory.sport8
"Dennis Swain, the new stand's architect, insists that Villa will salvage as much as they can from the old building; the mosaics and the distinctive roof gable in particular..."
It's criminal what happened to it
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At it happens, 'Sightlines' which is advertised as his new book at the bottom of the page is a good read.
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At it happens, 'Sightlines' which is advertised as his new book at the bottom of the page is a good read.
Yep it is. I also have (somewhere) Played in Birmingham which is also really good.
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O.k had a look and found this from the Chelsea 96 boxing day programme:
"We recognised for some time now the need to improve standard of the Trinity road stand. We are, however, contrained both by planning regulations and by our own desire to retain the history and character which the present stand provides, particularly the external brickwork and steps.
Improvements are: Complete reroofing of the stand to a level which is consistent with the height of our other stands and the removal of all 11 of the present pillars. Whilst these pillars will be replaced by two new pillars measuring 8 ins actoss, the vast majority of supporters will have an unrestricted view of the pitch. In addition the new roof will support 31 new executive boxes and the lower tier will be improved and completely reseated.
Work will commence after last home game in May 1997 with work completed by Christmas 1997."
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We’d have ended up with something like the stand with the Shelf at White Heart Lane. I guess the surveys showed the poor condition of the stand and made the unworkable.
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O.k had a look and found this from the Chelsea 96 boxing day programme:
"We recognised for some time now the need to improve standard of the Trinity road stand. We are, however, contrained both by planning regulations and by our own desire to retain the history and character which the present stand provides, particularly the external brickwork and steps.
Improvements are: Complete reroofing of the stand to a level which is consistent with the height of our other stands and the removal of all 11 of the present pillars. Whilst these pillars will be replaced by two new pillars measuring 8 ins actoss, the vast majority of supporters will have an unrestricted view of the pitch. In addition the new roof will support 31 new executive boxes and the lower tier will be improved and completely reseated.
Work will commence after last home game in May 1997 with work completed by Christmas 1997."
That's it! Thanks for digging that out. I remember that, it wouldn't have been a bad outcome at all though, as London Villan states, it may not have been possible in the end.
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O.k had a look and found this from the Chelsea 96 boxing day programme:
"We recognised for some time now the need to improve standard of the Trinity road stand. We are, however, contrained both by planning regulations and by our own desire to retain the history and character which the present stand provides, particularly the external brickwork and steps.
Improvements are: Complete reroofing of the stand to a level which is consistent with the height of our other stands and the removal of all 11 of the present pillars. Whilst these pillars will be replaced by two new pillars measuring 8 ins actoss, the vast majority of supporters will have an unrestricted view of the pitch. In addition the new roof will support 31 new executive boxes and the lower tier will be improved and completely reseated.
Work will commence after last home game in May 1997 with work completed by Christmas 1997."
That's it! Thanks for digging that out. I remember that, it wouldn't have been a bad outcome at all though, as London Villan states, it may not have been possible in the end.
I can't remember that at all, but it might have been the thing that led to the council talking about "four sheds".
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O.k had a look and found this from the Chelsea 96 boxing day programme:
"We recognised for some time now the need to improve standard of the Trinity road stand. We are, however, contrained both by planning regulations and by our own desire to retain the history and character which the present stand provides, particularly the external brickwork and steps.
Improvements are: Complete reroofing of the stand to a level which is consistent with the height of our other stands and the removal of all 11 of the present pillars. Whilst these pillars will be replaced by two new pillars measuring 8 ins actoss, the vast majority of supporters will have an unrestricted view of the pitch. In addition the new roof will support 31 new executive boxes and the lower tier will be improved and completely reseated.
Work will commence after last home game in May 1997 with work completed by Christmas 1997."
That's it! Thanks for digging that out. I remember that, it wouldn't have been a bad outcome at all though, as London Villan states, it may not have been possible in the end.
In one of the last programmes of that season they said Birmingham council had deferred the decision until May 1998 for some reason and the club were disappointed in the decision.
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I remember the plans for the hotel in the North Stand, 88/89 just before Hillborough changed everything.