Post by: Legion on February 02, 2020, 01:14:02 PM
West Ham
Watford
Norwich
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 01:30:25 PM
Choose 3. Option to change vote is available. I was originally going to put just the current bottom 8 in there but decided to go for 12 to cater for the possibility of someone going into freefall. Options will be removed as the season progresses. Currently in no particular order:
West Ham
Watford
Norwich
This is who we think will go down rather than want to?
Post by: Legion on February 02, 2020, 01:53:27 PM
Post by: TaxDodger on February 02, 2020, 01:57:53 PM
18. Watford (R)
19. Brighton (R)
20. Norwich (R)
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 02:03:24 PM
Arsenal because there fans are such wankers with a sense of entitlement.
Watford after the anti football performance the other night.
Bournemouth because of thier shitty little ground.
Newcastle - Steve Bruce
Crystal Palace because we rarely get anything there and it’s a nightmare to get to.
West Ham - poison dwarfs, Lady Transfer kitty Brady Porn Kings Tax Payer stadium
Everton because they seem to have a massive chip on thier shoulder about us.
Southampton, Lego stadium add Brighton to that.
Post by: AVH87 on February 02, 2020, 02:16:12 PM
Brighton I think haven't got many wins left in them and will go
Third spot is where I worry about us - if not we have to hope W Ham continue their shocking form or Watford's Pearson bubble has completely burst
Post by: CT on February 02, 2020, 02:21:21 PM
Burnley
Watford
Newcastle
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 02, 2020, 02:30:22 PM
Fuck me, want to go down, spoilt for choice.
Arsenal because there fans are such wankers with a sense of entitlement.
Watford after the anti football performance the other night.
Bournemouth because of thier shitty little ground.
Newcastle - Steve Bruce
Crystal Palace because we rarely get anything there and it’s a nightmare to get to.
West Ham - poison dwarfs, Lady Transfer kitty Brady Porn Kings Tax Payer stadium
Everton because they seem to have a massive chip on thier shoulder about us.
Southampton, Lego stadium add Brighton to that.
Not that it's really important but the question was about 'think will go down' rather than 'want'. If it was 'want' I'd pretty much be in line with you!
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 02:33:06 PM
Norwich gone - 20th
West Ham because they thought somehow Moyes was the answer - 19th
I reckon Brighton for the last spot.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on February 02, 2020, 02:38:07 PM
Their next 6 matches : Sheff Utd (A) , Burnley (A), Chelsea (H), Liverpool (A) , Palace (H), Wolves (A)
I don't see them getting more than 4 points out of those, could be less easily.
That would surely lodge them firmly bottom 3 by end of March
Post by: eamonn on February 02, 2020, 02:43:06 PM
I think West Ham will unfortunately have too much quality to be embroiled in the battle at the end which might be good for us as we might need a result at their place on the last day of the season.
So it's between us, Norwich, Brighton, Bomo and Watford.
20 Watford (those last two results will hopefully have kicked Pearson and Deeney right in the balls)
19 Norwich
18 Brighton/Villa...too close to call.
Post by: dicedlam on February 02, 2020, 02:49:59 PM
W. Ham
Brighton
Norwich
Think it will be:
Villa
Brighton
Norwich.
I just don't think we have the metal, never mind the quality for a relegation scrap.
The midfield blows hot and cold and without McGinn, we just don't have the legs in there at the moment. Then there is Trez and El Ghazi who again and again go missing for large parts of a game. The defence is also an area for concern with all three central defenders (Konsa/Mings/Hause) having at least one brain fart each per game. Our striking options can only be summed up in a couple of words 'a gamble'.
The positives are obviously Jack but he cannot be expected to be the force all on his own. I do think both Gilbert and Targett have improved immensely and do look more of a threat with crosses than both Trez and El Ghazi, but is this enough? sadly I don't think so.
Please prove me wrong Villa.
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 03:40:04 PM
Norwich
Spam
Watford
BTon
Bmouth
Us.
I think you can make a case for any of them.
Post by: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Villa
Brighton
Norwich
We just don't seem to be able to pull off any unexpected results unlike others around us. Our woeful away form will be our undoing unfortunately and an injury to Jack is unthinkable but likely at some stage.
I really hope they prove me wrong as I can't envisage life in the chumps again without our best players.
Post by: aj2k77 on February 02, 2020, 03:57:43 PM
Bournemouth
Norwich
You don't stay up conceding 2 goals a game.
Post by: john2710 on February 02, 2020, 04:07:11 PM
I think we'll be one of rhe bottom three.
It's going to be
Norwich
Brighton
Us / Bournemouth / Watford
Post by: ez on February 02, 2020, 04:11:33 PM
Brighton
Villa
Norwich.
Just don't see enough fight or any effective tactics from us.
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2020, 04:59:54 PM
Villa
Bournemouth
Norwich
You don't stay up conceding 2 goals a game.
Agreed, but seeing as nobody has conceded two goals a game on average, how is that affecting your decision?
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 02, 2020, 05:15:47 PM
Villa
Bournemouth
Norwich
You don't stay up conceding 2 goals a game.
Agreed, but seeing as nobody has conceded two goals a game on average, how is that affecting your decision?
Indeed. We didn't concede two goals a game v Norwich, Burnley, Brighton or Watford which have been in the last six games.
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 02, 2020, 05:35:27 PM
We're going to have to beat the teams above us, pick up points away from home & keep a few clean sheets if we want to stay up. Something we've struggled to do so far.I agree - the inability to keep clean sheets or eke out draws is hurting us..overall ,poor recruitment and,- ultimately abject defending may well be our downfall - just who is defensive coach?
I think we'll be one of rhe bottom three.
It's going to be
Norwich
Brighton
Us / Bournemouth / Watford
Post by: rougegorge on February 02, 2020, 05:48:33 PM
Equally it's 14 conceded in the last 6 league games (Norwich was 7 games), so stats can be used to support a number of arguments.Villa
Bournemouth
Norwich
You don't stay up conceding 2 goals a game.
Agreed, but seeing as nobody has conceded two goals a game on average, how is that affecting your decision?
Indeed. We didn't concede two goals a game v Norwich, Burnley, Brighton or Watford which have been in the last six games.
We do share the worse defensive record along with Norwich and that needs to improve very quickly to have any chance.
Post by: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 06:41:54 PM
Equally it's 14 conceded in the last 6 league games (Norwich was 7 games), so stats can be used to support a number of arguments.Villa
Bournemouth
Norwich
You don't stay up conceding 2 goals a game.
Agreed, but seeing as nobody has conceded two goals a game on average, how is that affecting your decision?
Indeed. We didn't concede two goals a game v Norwich, Burnley, Brighton or Watford which have been in the last six games.
We do share the worse defensive record along with Norwich and that needs to improve very quickly to have any chance.
That includes one game that is a bit of an anomaly though. Other than that Man City game, yesterday was the first time we have conceded two in a game since we went to three at the back. It still needs work, but we have definitely been improved defensively since then.
Post by: aj2k77 on February 02, 2020, 11:21:34 PM
Post by: eamonn on February 02, 2020, 11:25:38 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 02, 2020, 11:29:32 PM
Bournemouth
Brighton
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 02, 2020, 11:40:44 PM
Their away schedule is very tough, think they'll lose 4 of the six and they'll draw too many of their winnable home games due to having a manager like Moyes (I'd back them to stop up if they had Big Sam but they've already been down that avenue previously).
Did a prediction this afternoon and had them on 37 points and that includes beating us on the final day. We got to 39. Can't actually remember who the other relegated team was.
Post by: David_Nab on February 02, 2020, 11:58:50 PM
Post by: OzVilla on February 03, 2020, 12:58:25 AM
Post by: Damo70 on February 03, 2020, 01:10:16 AM
Norwich were never good enough from day one in my opinion.
Pre season I thought this was one Premier League season too far for Bournemouth.
Watford's new manager bounce seems to have worn off so they might go down.
The toxic atmosphere at West Ham will be a problem for them
I tipped Newcastle to go down before the season started but they have surprised me by grinding out some
decent results.
Brighton also seem good enough to grind out enough points to get over the line.
So long as we don't bottle it and play as we have been I think we will just about have enought to get over the line.
Definitely Norwich and Bournemouth for me and Watford or West Ham for the other relegation place.
I can't see any of Burnley, Palace, Arsenal, Southampton or Everton going down but if I had to pick one of them it would be Palace.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 03, 2020, 06:42:55 AM
Post by: robbo1874 on February 03, 2020, 07:49:10 AM
I only picked two.only problem with this scenario Damo, is we have bottled it and continue to do so, too often. I’m not saying we’re down. Just that if we’re relying on us not to bottle it too often, it could be very close. Hopefully we’ll be safe by the time we play West Ham, let’s hope so. But that game could well decide our fate, and how many times have we bottled it against relegation rivals so far this season?
Norwich were never good enough from day one in my opinion.
Pre season I thought this was one Premier League season too far for Bournemouth.
Watford's new manager bounce seems to have worn off so they might go down.
The toxic atmosphere at West Ham will be a problem for them
I tipped Newcastle to go down before the season started but they have surprised me by grinding out some
decent results.
Brighton also seem good enough to grind out enough points to get over the line.
So long as we don't bottle it and play as we have been I think we will just about have enought to get over the line.
Definitely Norwich and Bournemouth for me and Watford or West Ham for the other relegation place.
I can't see any of Burnley, Palace, Arsenal, Southampton or Everton going down but if I had to pick one of them it would be Palace.
Post by: OzVilla on February 03, 2020, 07:59:17 AM
6 from Norwich
4 from Brighton
4 from Burnley
3 from Everton*
3 from Newcastle*
3 from Watford
1 from West Ham*
0 from Bournemouth
0 from Southampton*
*2nd game still to play.
Post by: Villafirst on February 03, 2020, 08:08:50 AM
Post by: ROBBO on February 03, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
We need every player in every game to give their utmost for the cause and a manager who demands it.
Post by: baddowvillans on February 03, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
17. Aston Villa
18. Watford (R)
19. Brighton (R)
20. Norwich (R)
I went Norwich Brighton and Villa but would be happy with this. I just can't see us having enough effort organisation and desire to stay up. Jack can only do so much and unfortunately for us all those normal top 6 teams that we have at home and looked beatable appear to be picking up. We need something out of those games to stay up
Post by: Richard E on February 03, 2020, 10:20:44 AM
I appreciate this is not very helpful or informative.
Anything could happen.
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
Opposed to bottling it, I’d say we’ve done rather well against our relegation rivals;
6 from Norwich
4 from Brighton
4 from Burnley
3 from Everton*
3 from Newcastle*
3 from Watford
1 from West Ham*
0 from Bournemouth
0 from Southampton*
*2nd game still to play.
I wouldn't class Everton or Newcastle as relegation rivals to be honest.
Post by: in exile on February 03, 2020, 10:33:55 AM
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:45:11 AM
Post by: OzVilla on February 03, 2020, 10:49:03 AM
Post by: nevillain on February 03, 2020, 11:23:02 AM
Post by: Villan82 on February 03, 2020, 11:30:02 AM
I just wish we had that tiny bit more grit and nous. So frustrating.
Post by: Villafirst on February 03, 2020, 12:05:40 PM
Post by: algy on February 03, 2020, 12:24:55 PM
Norwich, definitely going down. Then at least 1 - and probably 2 - from us, Watford, and West Ham.
Either Bournemouth or Brighton as outside bets for relegation.
Post by: Damo70 on February 03, 2020, 12:47:40 PM
I think relegated teams will have a max of 36 points. We'll scrape by with a minimum of 37 or a maximum of 39. Imo Norwich, Watford and West Ham could well make up the bottom 3 with Bournemouth the most likely to slip into one of those places as they have an awful run-in playing all of the current top 8 and nobody in the bottom 6. Wishful thinking maybe but it's going to be tight.
I was aware West Ham had a tough run in but didn't know Bournemouth did too.
Post by: Ads on February 03, 2020, 12:48:44 PM
Post by: mallo on February 03, 2020, 12:57:08 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 03, 2020, 01:05:28 PM
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2020, 01:18:23 PM
Post by: garyshawsknee on February 03, 2020, 01:22:11 PM
It's going to be an awful few weeks where us and West Ham try to be not quite as shite as the other team.
I've got this awful feeling it'll come down to a winner takes all game on the last day of the season, I'll get a ticket through my West Ham season ticket holder brother and be sat next to the biggest Essex type geezer in East London, feigning my disgust at every Villa goal.
Post by: eamonn on February 03, 2020, 01:32:19 PM
I think relegated teams will have a max of 36 points. We'll scrape by with a minimum of 37 or a maximum of 39. Imo Norwich, Watford and West Ham could well make up the bottom 3 with Bournemouth the most likely to slip into one of those places as they have an awful run-in playing all of the current top 8 and nobody in the bottom 6. Wishful thinking maybe but it's going to be tight.
I was aware West Ham had a tough run in but didn't know Bournemouth did too.
Well there's 13 games left each so chances are everyone's got difficult run-ins!
Post by: postal on February 03, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Bournemouth have SheffUtd & Burnley, not "difficult" but not easy either
And Villa have Spurs then Saints.... well.....
We and Bournmouth might get a win or a couple of draws (ahem) in those two, but West Ham... nothing, unless thats the time for Liverpool's freaky loss...
Post by: JUAN PABLO on February 03, 2020, 03:33:21 PM
Boremouth
dead seagulls
Post by: JUAN PABLO on February 03, 2020, 03:36:07 PM
Be like a new superstar signing
This is what Im praying for
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 03, 2020, 03:44:09 PM
I think Bowen will give Spam a boost. But, given their next two matches four points from Spuds and Southampton would do nicely.
4th bottom us.
Watford
Brighton
Norwich
Post by: vilan461 on February 03, 2020, 04:22:35 PM
that last game at West Ham could well be the deciding factor---but hopefully we will be safe by then----it might even boil down to goal difference----
hopefully the footballing Gods will smile favourably on The Famous ASTON VILLA
In the worst case scenario---how the hell would we cope back in The Championship? without possibly--Captain Jack SJM and Tyrone Mings?? i shudder with horror at the thought!!
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 03, 2020, 04:32:23 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 03, 2020, 04:44:16 PM
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2020, 04:52:23 PM
If we go down we will be fine. We will get decent money for those three. A lot of the others could cut it in the championship and we just have to hope Brentford don't go up so we can buy Benrahma and Watkins. Easy really.
Well for me being fine doesn't really fit with selling our best, most exciting player for a generation, and our other two players who it is mostly an absolute pleasure to watch.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 03, 2020, 04:53:49 PM
What was the bottom three like this time last season - points wise?
(https://i.ibb.co/C9vBLP7/Screenshot-72.png)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 03, 2020, 05:01:46 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 03, 2020, 05:09:53 PM
If we go down we will be fine. We will get decent money for those three. A lot of the others could cut it in the championship and we just have to hope Brentford don't go up so we can buy Benrahma and Watkins. Easy really.
Agreed but it will become a reality. I just don't think it will be the usual Armageddon scenario if we do go. I would hate it.
Well for me being fine doesn't really fit with selling our best, most exciting player for a generation, and our other two players who it is mostly an absolute pleasure to watch.
Post by: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 05:18:42 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 03, 2020, 05:23:55 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/yfYJZyr/Screenshot-73.png)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 03, 2020, 06:27:52 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 03, 2020, 06:29:16 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/0XbF7by/E049-FC3-C-1099-4-C66-BE29-6215-CCE05450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XbF7by)
Post by: chrisw1 on February 03, 2020, 08:12:03 PM
We should be relegated just for this.Fair.
(https://i.ibb.co/0XbF7by/E049-FC3-C-1099-4-C66-BE29-6215-CCE05450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XbF7by)
Post by: Legion on February 16, 2020, 08:05:09 PM
Post by: Legion on February 23, 2020, 07:40:51 PM
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 23, 2020, 07:45:29 PM
We should be relegated just for this.£12 ? Daylight robbery
(https://i.ibb.co/0XbF7by/E049-FC3-C-1099-4-C66-BE29-6215-CCE05450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XbF7by)
Post by: Smithy on February 23, 2020, 07:50:44 PM
Post by: DB on February 23, 2020, 07:51:07 PM
We should be relegated just for this.
(https://i.ibb.co/0XbF7by/E049-FC3-C-1099-4-C66-BE29-6215-CCE05450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XbF7by)
You still have your Villa / Cleveland Browns scarf ?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 23, 2020, 08:05:10 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 23, 2020, 08:17:43 PM
We should be relegated just for this.we may well be
(https://i.ibb.co/0XbF7by/E049-FC3-C-1099-4-C66-BE29-6215-CCE05450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XbF7by)
Post by: tony scott on February 24, 2020, 11:49:02 AM
I’ve still got mine in OzWe should be relegated just for this.
(https://i.ibb.co/0XbF7by/E049-FC3-C-1099-4-C66-BE29-6215-CCE05450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XbF7by)
You still have your Villa / Cleveland Browns scarf ?
Post by: Dave P on February 25, 2020, 08:50:15 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:58:22 PM
I think Norwich have gone. Watford have had their run and seem to be slipping so it seems to be one from us, West Ham, Brighton, Bournemouth and possibly Newcastle but I think their heads are just above the water. Do we have enough? Should West Ham be more worried?
Yes, I think a club who have got less points than us, are in worse form than us and whose supporters woud like to tear their manager and board limb from limb are probably worse off than we are.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 05:06:05 PM
I suppose it depends what span of games you're talking about. Over the last three, we have the worst form in the division.I think Norwich have gone. Watford have had their run and seem to be slipping so it seems to be one from us, West Ham, Brighton, Bournemouth and possibly Newcastle but I think their heads are just above the water. Do we have enough? Should West Ham be more worried?
Yes, I think a club who have got less points than us, are in worse form than us and whose supporters woud like to tear their manager and board limb from limb are probably worse off than we are.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 26, 2020, 05:10:49 PM
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 05:56:02 PM
We have bad matches and good matches, and bad periods in good matches. If we're only as good as our last fixture, then yes, we're in big trouble, but we're not are we? We've shown in a number of matches that we're better than that, even if we're prone to fuck a few things up.
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2020, 07:13:12 PM
Post by: JJ-AV on February 27, 2020, 01:02:28 PM
Similarly, most who've watched us use the word naive, a lack of nous has cost us points. That comes from recruitment (i.e. lacking experience) and style. We haven't managed to develop a more robust approach to gain us an extra handful of points to give us some breathing space.
Smith's done a very good job overall but this season, particularly the last 3 months or so I have started to wonder about his methods, particularly with the persistence of problems. Specifically - shots conceded, the inability of the midfield to track runners and the fact we so rarely play the early ball in to the front-man.
I still back Smith and think if we go down we should stick with him. However, if we stay up, there may be a decision to be made too...
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 27, 2020, 01:23:27 PM
Smith has done nothing to address this situation, on Saturday we gave Southampton 20 opportunities.
This is just sheer madness and I would love just one journalist to ask him why he thinks this is and what he is doing about it.
Post by: Luke8 on February 27, 2020, 01:31:35 PM
Yeah I agree with Risso there. We've signed probably 5 players in the Summer who weren't up to it. Had one of those been a hit we'd probably be a handful of points higher up.
Recruitment is tough though. You look at even a team that are doing well, like Sheffield United, and it’s not like that many of their summer signings have been major successes so far. Callum Robinson has even been moved back out on loan already. And that was building from a much better position that we were in and knowing that they would be promoted a fair bit earlier.
Don’t completely disagree with your point, and I’m not saying the recruitment should be defined as a success, but given what we had to do I think it a bit harsh to think they could have done a lot better.
Post by: AV82EC on February 27, 2020, 01:50:00 PM
You get a chance to score against us every 5 and a half minutes.
Smith has done nothing to address this situation, on Saturday we gave Southampton 20 opportunities.
This is just sheer madness and I would love just one journalist to ask him why he thinks this is and what he is doing about it.
I think we need to be careful here about this shots conceded stat as I’d be intrigued to know how many were actually a clear cut chance to score? I’m not saying it irrelevant, it definitely isn’t but like any stat how you construe it can be misleading.
Ultimately we are too open and naive.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 27, 2020, 01:50:39 PM
Post by: Dave P on February 27, 2020, 02:19:18 PM
I think Norwich have gone. Watford have had their run and seem to be slipping so it seems to be one from us, West Ham, Brighton, Bournemouth and possibly Newcastle but I think their heads are just above the water. Do we have enough? Should West Ham be more worried?
Yes, I think a club who have got less points than us (1), are in worse form than us (having played Man City and Liverpool away) and whose supporters woud like to tear their manager and board limb (see elements of the Dean Smith thread) from limb are probably worse off than we are.
I've added a bit of context in brackets. We are matching West Ham stride for stride with shitness and I'd be less worried if the last game of the season was at home!
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 27, 2020, 02:41:23 PM
Post by: nigel on February 27, 2020, 02:58:16 PM
I think Norwich have gone. Watford have had their run and seem to be slipping so it seems to be one from us, West Ham, Brighton, Bournemouth and possibly Newcastle but I think their heads are just above the water. Do we have enough? Should West Ham be more worried?
I've a horrible feeling Watford will get out of it, leaving two from Bournemouth, Brighton, WHU and us
Post by: Luke8 on February 27, 2020, 03:10:26 PM
Has a team with the worst defensive record in the PL ever managed to stay up?
Bournemouth conceded seventy last season. Something for us to aim for.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 27, 2020, 03:29:18 PM
Has a team with the worst defensive record in the PL ever managed to stay up?
Bournemouth conceded seventy last season. Something for us to aim for.
Indeed but Fulham were the worst, conceding 81 and were relegated. Huddersfield let in 76 and were also relegated. After a quick check, since the turn of the century, no team with the worst defensive record has survived. John? Anybody seen John?
Post by: Drummond on February 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Why was it never going to happen? That’s nonsense. Better recruitment and better coaching could have seen us much higher.
You were really expecting us to be 7th or higher? Because that's where you'd be with 40 points.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on February 27, 2020, 04:29:10 PM
Has a team with the worst defensive record in the PL ever managed to stay up?
Bournemouth conceded seventy last season. Something for us to aim for.
Indeed but Fulham were the worst, conceding 81 and were relegated. Huddersfield let in 76 and were also relegated. After a quick check, since the turn of the century, no team with the worst defensive record has survived. John? Anybody seen John?
How does this relate to goal difference though? as currently 3rd worst with another 2 sides only 1 GD better
Post by: Risso on February 27, 2020, 04:55:28 PM
Why was it never going to happen? That’s nonsense. Better recruitment and better coaching could have seen us much higher.
You were really expecting us to be 7th or higher? Because that's where you'd be with 40 points.
Who mentioned either 7th or a specific points total? FFS.
Post by: Drummond on February 27, 2020, 05:01:54 PM
I'm not naive enough to think everything in the garden is rosy, but we're heading in to March in 17th which is where we'd like to finish. It's not a bad state of affairs. Obviously we'd all like to have amassed 40 points already so that we could afford to lose the rest of our games but that was never going to happen.
We have bad matches and good matches, and bad periods in good matches. If we're only as good as our last fixture, then yes, we're in big trouble, but we're not are we? We've shown in a number of matches that we're better than that, even if we're prone to fuck a few things up.
Oh Risso, that's what you replied to.
Post by: BoVillan esq on February 27, 2020, 08:38:57 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 27, 2020, 09:17:37 PM
Has a team with the worst defensive record in the PL ever managed to stay up?
Bournemouth conceded seventy last season. Something for us to aim for.
Indeed but Fulham were the worst, conceding 81 and were relegated. Huddersfield let in 76 and were also relegated. After a quick check, since the turn of the century, no team with the worst defensive record has survived. John? Anybody seen John?
How does this relate to goal difference though? as currently 3rd worst with another 2 sides only 1 GD better
Goal difference doesn't come into it, just the simple fact if you have the worst defence you get relegated (at least until now).
Post by: charlatan on February 27, 2020, 10:22:43 PM
Has a team with the worst defensive record in the PL ever managed to stay up?
Has the most fouled team ever been relegated?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 27, 2020, 11:58:02 PM
Has a team with the worst defensive record in the PL ever managed to stay up?
Has the most fouled team ever been relegated?
Probably.
Post by: aev on February 28, 2020, 06:24:54 AM
Post by: eamonn on February 28, 2020, 06:52:22 AM
You get a chance to score against us every 5 and a half minutes.
Smith has done nothing to address this situation, on Saturday we gave Southampton 20 opportunities.
This is just sheer madness and I would love just one journalist to ask him why he thinks this is and what he is doing about it.
Closest answer so far, from skysports.com yesterday:
Quote
Smith joined Villa in 2018 after impressing in his development of the Brentford team - but he admits he has had to adapt his philosophy in his bid to keep the West Midlands club in the Premier League.
"I've learned an awful lot about going into games and thinking you can control the ball," he said. "With the quality of the players you've got, there are periods where you're not going to have it, and not to go chasing it so quickly.
"I'm one to go and win it back as quickly as possible but some of the quality within this league doesn't allow you to do that, and when they do beat that press they can get at your back-four or three very quickly, and it gives you problems.
"We've had to adapt as we've gone through the season but we've also lost some big players to injury, which has also made us adapt. But the players and myself have learned all the way through."
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2020, 07:16:25 AM
Cheers Eamon. Not sure what they have learned.You get a chance to score against us every 5 and a half minutes.
Smith has done nothing to address this situation, on Saturday we gave Southampton 20 opportunities.
This is just sheer madness and I would love just one journalist to ask him why he thinks this is and what he is doing about it.
Closest answer so far, from skysports.com yesterday:QuoteSmith joined Villa in 2018 after impressing in his development of the Brentford team - but he admits he has had to adapt his philosophy in his bid to keep the West Midlands club in the Premier League.
"I've learned an awful lot about going into games and thinking you can control the ball," he said. "With the quality of the players you've got, there are periods where you're not going to have it, and not to go chasing it so quickly.
"I'm one to go and win it back as quickly as possible but some of the quality within this league doesn't allow you to do that, and when they do beat that press they can get at your back-four or three very quickly, and it gives you problems.
"We've had to adapt as we've gone through the season but we've also lost some big players to injury, which has also made us adapt. But the players and myself have learned all the way through."
But a huge problem is the ease with which we give the ball to the opposition and turnover Ball is the most dangerous.
Post by: chrisw1 on February 28, 2020, 12:13:20 PM
Would wishing a coronavirus mass cancellation of sporting events and public gatherings be the wrong thing to wish for?Absolutely not. You're are just thinking of public well being and should be applauded for that. This years league should just scrapped and we should start again from scratch in August.
Dissapointing, but the right thing to do and I'm sure Liverpool, Leeds and Baggies fans would be gracious enough to accept it's for the best.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on February 28, 2020, 04:04:43 PM
Reports that this is being considered. Cant do links to anything but the Telegraph is one of the sources.Would wishing a coronavirus mass cancellation of sporting events and public gatherings be the wrong thing to wish for?Absolutely not. You're are just thinking of public well being and should be applauded for that. This years league should just scrapped and we should start again from scratch in August.
Dissapointing, but the right thing to do and I'm sure Liverpool, Leeds and Baggies fans would be gracious enough to accept it's for the best.
No way of getting out of Sunday, though!
Post by: Border villan on February 28, 2020, 04:18:25 PM
Would wishing a coronavirus mass cancellation of sporting events and public gatherings be the wrong thing to wish for?Absolutely not. You're are just thinking of public well being and should be applauded for that. This years league should just scrapped and we should start again from scratch in August.
Dissapointing, but the right thing to do and I'm sure Liverpool, Leeds and Baggies fans would be gracious enough to accept it's for the best.
A win on Sunday will result in us being the only club to qualify for Europe before the big shutdown.
Post by: BoVillan esq on February 28, 2020, 08:35:03 PM
Reports that this is being considered. Cant do links to anything but the Telegraph is one of the sources.Would wishing a coronavirus mass cancellation of sporting events and public gatherings be the wrong thing to wish for?Absolutely not. You're are just thinking of public well being and should be applauded for that. This years league should just scrapped and we should start again from scratch in August.
Dissapointing, but the right thing to do and I'm sure Liverpool, Leeds and Baggies fans would be gracious enough to accept it's for the best.
No way of getting out of Sunday, though!
It should be more than considered, it should be enacted right now, a complete shut down of the entire football season until the start of next season, then reassess around June time, we go this complete season again as it stands, this is fast becoming the most serious threat we have probably had to face since WW2, stock markets are going into meltdown, billions being wiped of share value, we could face an almost entire shut down of industry in this country and across the world within days, stopping a football season hardly registers on the richter scale, can easily see this happening.
Post by: Legion on February 28, 2020, 08:36:47 PM
Post by: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 08:37:39 PM
Reports that this is being considered. Cant do links to anything but the Telegraph is one of the sources.Would wishing a coronavirus mass cancellation of sporting events and public gatherings be the wrong thing to wish for?Absolutely not. You're are just thinking of public well being and should be applauded for that. This years league should just scrapped and we should start again from scratch in August.
Dissapointing, but the right thing to do and I'm sure Liverpool, Leeds and Baggies fans would be gracious enough to accept it's for the best.
No way of getting out of Sunday, though!
It should be more than considered, it should be enacted right now, a complete shut down of the entire football season until the start of next season, then reassess around June time, we go this complete season again as it stands, this is fast becoming the most serious threat we have probably had to face since WW2, stock markets are going into meltdown, billions being wiped of share value, we could face an almost entire shut down of industry in this country and across the world within days, stopping a football season hardly registers on the richter scale, can easily see this happening.
It would be great for us I must say.
Post by: BoVillan esq on February 28, 2020, 08:44:25 PM
Please tell me you are not being serious.
Absolutely, watch how this all pans out, we can't fight this, the only chance we have is to contain it, you will see schools close, a huge part the workforce being told to work from home were possible, friend of mine has family in Japan and he is saying its really quite scary how they are looking at this and what they are planning to do, either this will spread rapidly in the UK within the coming days or it will be contained, time will tell.
Post by: Tuscans on February 28, 2020, 09:08:53 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on February 28, 2020, 10:20:22 PM
Post by: Richard E on February 28, 2020, 10:22:00 PM
Norwich four points behind us now. Bloody lame Leicester. Bet they dont play that crap against us
20% of their points total for the whole season behind us still, with only 10 games left to play, 1 less than us. I’ll not crap myself just yet.
Post by: aj2k77 on February 28, 2020, 11:10:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 28, 2020, 11:16:30 PM
Post by: The_ads on February 29, 2020, 12:44:56 PM
Reports that this is being considered. Cant do links to anything but the Telegraph is one of the sources.Would wishing a coronavirus mass cancellation of sporting events and public gatherings be the wrong thing to wish for?Absolutely not. You're are just thinking of public well being and should be applauded for that. This years league should just scrapped and we should start again from scratch in August.
Dissapointing, but the right thing to do and I'm sure Liverpool, Leeds and Baggies fans would be gracious enough to accept it's for the best.
No way of getting out of Sunday, though!
It should be more than considered, it should be enacted right now, a complete shut down of the entire football season until the start of next season, then reassess around June time, we go this complete season again as it stands, this is fast becoming the most serious threat we have probably had to face since WW2, stock markets are going into meltdown, billions being wiped of share value, we could face an almost entire shut down of industry in this country and across the world within days, stopping a football season hardly registers on the richter scale, can easily see this happening.
Total and utter tripe
Post by: Pete3206 on February 29, 2020, 01:07:00 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 29, 2020, 01:25:28 PM
Cancel the football season, nail crooked pieces of wood to the windows & call out the militia.
Post by: Clampy on February 29, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 29, 2020, 01:28:06 PM
Post by: Clampy on February 29, 2020, 01:30:16 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on February 29, 2020, 01:50:03 PM
Post by: CT Villan on February 29, 2020, 01:55:04 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/3Y58DX1/doomed.png) (https://ibb.co/3Y58DX1)
Post by: chrisw1 on February 29, 2020, 03:03:16 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on February 29, 2020, 03:15:30 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 03:18:45 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
Post by: eamonn on February 29, 2020, 03:24:59 PM
Why we didnt sign bowen and opted for trez is beyond me.
He cost twice as much.
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 03:31:33 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 03:31:56 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 03:41:06 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 03:46:01 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on February 29, 2020, 04:14:22 PM
Post by: Dazvillain on February 29, 2020, 04:17:00 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 04:17:21 PM
We're going down aren't we?
Your not allowed to say that or your being negative.
Its on the cards the teams around us showing fight while we show coward performances like Southampton.
Unless we improve we are going down
Post by: Des Little on February 29, 2020, 04:20:40 PM
Post by: ez on February 29, 2020, 04:23:07 PM
Post by: aev on February 29, 2020, 04:29:48 PM
Best chance is a pandemic...
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 04:32:25 PM
We’ve ridden our luck for weeks. No complaints
Yep no one but ourselves to blame. The worst thing is the gap could be even bigger before our next league game as our game vs leicester is monday night.
No more bottle job saints performances
Post by: Dazvillain on February 29, 2020, 04:41:39 PM
Post by: Legion on February 29, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 05:09:26 PM
I don’t see us getting many more points.
Post by: CT on February 29, 2020, 05:10:35 PM
Aston Villa will have relegated Aston Villa if it happens.
Exactly. That's why Southampton was so crucial. Just a shame the players didn't think the same on the day.
Post by: eamonn on February 29, 2020, 05:11:17 PM
Post by: Legion on February 29, 2020, 05:19:09 PM
Post by: Goldie.7 on February 29, 2020, 05:29:28 PM
Other teams are fighting for their lives while we have complete twats like El Khazi downing tools over a little graze.
Almost 8 months into our season and I still have no idea what Luiz actually does or what his position is?!
Post by: Pete3206 on February 29, 2020, 05:39:53 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 29, 2020, 05:56:16 PM
Post by: Ads on February 29, 2020, 06:01:45 PM
I'm not giving up with a quarter of the season left.
Me neither.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on February 29, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Nor me.I'm not giving up with a quarter of the season left.
Me neither.
I know it was the Championship, but our 10 wins in a row streak started round now last season. A good omen for improved form, maybe???
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 06:25:32 PM
We have lost the last3 league games.
I don’t see us getting many more points.
I feel like a broken record but losing games we should be drawing is what is killing us. I am so pissed off with the lack of draws.
Call me old fashioned but I always believe being solid defensively is the number one priority. The Brian Little era is the best example of this. We won a lot of games 1-0 back then, or could grind out a 0-0 if we absolutely had to- the semi-final second leg against Arsenal sticks out. If you can draw 8 or 9 games a season you have a great chance of staying up.
Smith's style seems to be 'go for the win'. I just think our whole approach to this first season back has been all wrong. We were very open in the first 10-11 games and didn't get the points we needed. I wish there had been more emphasis on defence and grinding out the points.
Going down, losing Jack, Mings and McGinn would be some kick in the balls as far as I'm concerned. It is a very long time since we had players we could identify with and it could be a long wait again.
I guess I am just pissed off at our whole approach this season - and you know what the league cup run has really papered over a lot of cracks. If we go down it won't be any consolation.
Post by: Damo70 on February 29, 2020, 06:30:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 29, 2020, 06:33:19 PM
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 29, 2020, 06:41:00 PM
Post by: themossman on February 29, 2020, 06:44:37 PM
Post by: London Villan on February 29, 2020, 06:45:02 PM
Post by: Legion on February 29, 2020, 06:46:37 PM
Post by: levico on February 29, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 06:52:58 PM
Meanwhile Watford are beating Pool 2-0. Can’t see any clubs worse than us.
We would bottle this and lose 2-3
Post by: Legion on February 29, 2020, 06:53:31 PM
Post by: themossman on February 29, 2020, 06:57:41 PM
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 06:58:50 PM
What a monumentally shit Saturday results-wise.
Players have let us down. The points tally going into this weekend was a disgrace, simply inviting teams to leapfrog us. You can't lose 3 games in a row, 2 of them most definitely winnable, and expect other teams won't take advantage.
This has been a shit season.
Post by: phantom limb on February 29, 2020, 07:05:22 PM
Whatever happens tomorrow, the players will have to step up and get some results by any means necessary.
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 29, 2020, 07:06:43 PM
Meanwhile Watford are beating Pool 2-0. Can’t see any clubs worse than us.
We would bottle this and lose 2-3
All this game has shown is we're incredibly slow on the counter attack. This Sarr bloke has ripped Liverpool apart.
You need pace in the final third to beat the better teams. We had it in the MON days and our results v other top 6 were pretty good on the whole.
And to keep believing in what you're doing when 1 up.
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 29, 2020, 07:07:57 PM
Post by: Legion on February 29, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
Post by: frank black on February 29, 2020, 07:13:16 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 29, 2020, 07:13:21 PM
Meanwhile Watford are beating Pool 2-0. Can’t see any clubs worse than us.
We would bottle this and lose 2-3
All this game has shown is we're incredibly slow on the counter attack. This Sarr bloke has ripped Liverpool apart.
You need pace in the final third to beat the better teams. We had it in the MON days and our results v other top 6 were pretty good on the whole.
And to keep believing in what you're doing when 1 up.
Had Sarr played against us at Villa Park they'd have done us too. We dodged a huge bullet he was missing.
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 29, 2020, 07:14:46 PM
In any case think we'll have to accept likes of West Ham and Watford are likely to go into the distance now (perhaps not for West Ham with some of their fixtures).
Brighton and Bournemouth are still in this big time. Think Bournemouth not beating Chelsea will actually deflate them a fair bit. Brighton have Wolves, Arsenal, Leicester and Man. United as their next four and their goals have dried up. They also face Man. City and Liverpool (o.k maybe not so tough now) at home late in the season.
Need to try and reel in one of those teams and also Newcastle.
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
Think Bournemouth not beating Chelsea will actually deflate them a fair bit.
Well it's more than we'd manage. Oh what I would fucking give for a point from a strong position against Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs to name just three games we got zero from.
Post by: purpletrousers on February 29, 2020, 07:19:01 PM
What a monumentally shit Saturday results-wise.
This. I sit here at a very sweaty 22.03 in a far off land initially not believing that score could be.
My only hope that being one off the bottom shakes some players and the club to the core, that they perform as they can tomorrow and somehow carry that form through. If we don’t stand up to be counted now...
I just shared my dismay with Brian my brother in laws ‘house boy’. He told me it’s 3-0. Oh dear.
And my data is run out so they’ll be 4-0 by the time I post this.
Post by: Ads on February 29, 2020, 07:19:40 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 29, 2020, 07:20:19 PM
Think Bournemouth not beating Chelsea will actually deflate them a fair bit.
Well it's more than we'd manage. Oh what I would fucking give for a point from a strong position against Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs to name just three games we got zero from.
Chelsea are very beatable currently. We need to show some bottle v them in two weeks and I reckon we'll get at least a draw. I said that pre Spurs so hopefully no calamity errors from one of the CBs would help aswell.
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 07:20:33 PM
But concentrate on tomorrow for now use this as motivation tomorrow.nothing is impossible
Post by: Smithy on February 29, 2020, 07:21:15 PM
Well, we know what we have to do, we need some big results in matches we're not expected to do well in. Do that, or we go down.
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 07:24:01 PM
Think Bournemouth not beating Chelsea will actually deflate them a fair bit.
Well it's more than we'd manage. Oh what I would fucking give for a point from a strong position against Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs to name just three games we got zero from.
Chelsea are very beatable currently. We need to show some bottle v them in two weeks and I reckon we'll get at least a draw. I said that pre Spurs so hopefully no calamity errors from one of the CBs would help aswell.
I believe the error Engels made is a symptom of everything wrong this season. The first instinct should have been to stick his boot through that ball and boot it into the stand. They aren't being drilled to think like that. They are being drilled, it appears, to control it and play nice football.
Post by: rougegorge on February 29, 2020, 07:24:08 PM
We have failed to win enough of the 'must win' games like those in December and more recently Brighton, Bournemouth and Southampton. Worse still though is the abject failure against the teams in the top half.
Post by: rougegorge on February 29, 2020, 07:29:17 PM
Smith needs to get the team playing a whole lot better and quickly, starting tomorrow. I am not hopeful.
Post by: Goldie.7 on February 29, 2020, 07:30:17 PM
We need to win 4/5 games.
We've won 7 games all season and 4 since the end of October. We've put in two convincing displays since August, Everton and Norwich away.
It isn't happening.
Post by: Villafirst on February 29, 2020, 07:30:39 PM
Post by: levico on February 29, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
Post by: Richard E on February 29, 2020, 07:31:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 29, 2020, 07:32:26 PM
Post by: Legion on February 29, 2020, 07:33:22 PM
Post by: Monty on February 29, 2020, 07:34:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 29, 2020, 07:36:41 PM
Look, it's monumentally horrible, but if we win our game in hand we'll still be in safety just. Still. Fuck me.
That will require beating a team in the top 10. We have to start winning those fucking games.
Post by: Ads on February 29, 2020, 07:40:10 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 29, 2020, 07:40:30 PM
It's no good keep hoping other teams are going to be reeled in. A week or two back, people on here were making out Palace were in free fall. Then it's Newcastle, but they will grind out draws or the odd win because they are better organised in defence.
We have failed to win enough of the 'must win' games like those in December and more recently Brighton, Bournemouth and Southampton. Worse still though is the abject failure against the teams in the top half.
Ultimately the one thing that remains out of our hands is what is needed to stay up. If it's 38 or above then we have next to no chance. At the moment even getting to 35 points feels a long shot but we've seen before one win can change the whole mindset.
If Bournemouth and Brighton fail to get to 35 points that would help a huge amount. Still a chance neither will. Brighton still have worse form than us over last two months.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 29, 2020, 07:41:07 PM
Then let's start tomorrow and carry it on a week Monday and the Saturday after.
That would be nice.
Post by: Ads on February 29, 2020, 07:52:52 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on February 29, 2020, 07:53:21 PM
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 07:56:20 PM
Post by: Ads on February 29, 2020, 07:57:26 PM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 29, 2020, 07:58:12 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on February 29, 2020, 08:01:00 PM
Leicester is a far, far bigger game than the cup final. We didn't really need the distraction of a cup run in our first season back.
Before today I would have said a good result or even a good performance against Man City could probably have set us up for maybe a decent run in our relegation battle, after today we need to focus fully on the Premiership, this could well be a distraction and lets hope we don't pick up any serious injuries.
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
In the grand scheme of things that's why I made the comment about the cup being a distraction and being something more suited to a season when we are an established top flight club again.
If we go down, that will have been 4 out of 5 seasons we will have been out of the top flight and that is grim for a club our size.
Post by: Sleeuwenhoek on February 29, 2020, 08:06:38 PM
Post by: Des Little on February 29, 2020, 08:19:35 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on February 29, 2020, 08:24:04 PM
Every single fixture we are capable of getting a result from. We've been firmly reminded that non are no chance, write off games, other teams are their to fight, for every point. We have to be in the same mindset too. Non of this bullshit about it's going to be the game against those around us spouted by even the manager. Every single game will decide if we are back playing QPR on a Tuesday night.
Post by: Ads on February 29, 2020, 08:27:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 29, 2020, 08:30:26 PM
Aston Villa need to be in the premier league. It is where we belong and it is where the money is. It is where we have to be if we are to have any chance of keeping Jack.Getting to cup finals is also very important to a club like Aston Villa.
In the grand scheme of things that's why I made the comment about the cup being a distraction and being something more suited to a season when we are an established top flight club again.
If we go down, that will have been 4 out of 5 seasons we will have been out of the top flight and that is grim for a club our size.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 29, 2020, 08:32:06 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 08:40:45 PM
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 08:43:09 PM
Agreed. There's a very brittle mentality.
Players or fans? And who gets paid not to be?
Post by: OzVilla on February 29, 2020, 09:03:39 PM
It’s still all on our own hands.
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2020, 09:10:38 PM
I think the mentality of the management team and players is a little more important than those on an internet site.
Exactly. Whatever gets said on here isn't quite the same as El Ghazi deciding he's had enough after a slight graze to the cheek in a must win game. That's where we need people rolling their sleeves up, on the field. If the team wasn't so utterly feeble we'd probably have more confidence that they're capable of getting out of the shit.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on February 29, 2020, 09:18:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 29, 2020, 09:21:16 PM
I think the mentality of the management team and players is a little more important than those on an internet site.
Exactly. Whatever gets said on here isn't quite the same as El Ghazi deciding he's had enough after a slight graze to the cheek in a must win game. That's where we need people rolling their sleeves up, on the field. If the team wasn't so utterly feeble we'd probably have more confidence that they're capable of getting out of the shit.
How you doing Steve, Newcastle treating you well?
Just to be clear, we really need to get over the idea that we'd be fine if we just tried a bit harder. It's the 2nd myth that Villa fans turn to in a bad run (after accusing the team of not being fit enough). Neither of those things are the problem. Our issue is about personal responsibility and self-confidence, not lack of effort or fitness (aside from 1-2 players).
Post by: Dave P on February 29, 2020, 09:26:58 PM
Post by: wince on February 29, 2020, 09:32:24 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 29, 2020, 09:32:37 PM
Think Bournemouth not beating Chelsea will actually deflate them a fair bit.
Well it's more than we'd manage. Oh what I would fucking give for a point from a strong position against Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs to name just three games we got zero from.
Chelsea are very beatable currently. We need to show some bottle v them in two weeks and I reckon we'll get at least a draw. I said that pre Spurs so hopefully no calamity errors from one of the CBs would help aswell.
I believe the error Engels made is a symptom of everything wrong this season. The first instinct should have been to stick his boot through that ball and boot it into the stand. They aren't being drilled to think like that. They are being drilled, it appears, to control it and play nice football.
Control it and play nice football? What an absolute fucking scandal!
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2020, 09:32:52 PM
I think the mentality of the management team and players is a little more important than those on an internet site.
Exactly. Whatever gets said on here isn't quite the same as El Ghazi deciding he's had enough after a slight graze to the cheek in a must win game. That's where we need people rolling their sleeves up, on the field. If the team wasn't so utterly feeble we'd probably have more confidence that they're capable of getting out of the shit.
How you doing Steve, Newcastle treating you well?
Just to be clear, we really need to get over the idea that we'd be fine if we just tried a bit harder. It's the 2nd myth that Villa fans turn to in a bad run (after accusing the team of not being fit enough). Neither of those things are the problem. Our issue is about personal responsibility and self-confidence, not lack of effort or fitness (aside from 1-2 players).
Aside from one to two players...so only the ten to twenty percent of a match day team then. We're not good enough in most matches with everybody firing on all cylinders, so god knows how you expect us to do with two of them not pulling their weight.
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2020, 09:35:15 PM
Control it and play nice football? What an absolute fucking scandal!
Nice winning football would be great. Rubbish winning football would do for the next ten games. Nice, losing football would at least show that improvements could be made. For most of the last few months, it's been rubbish, losing football.
Post by: paul_e on February 29, 2020, 09:42:40 PM
I think the mentality of the management team and players is a little more important than those on an internet site.
Exactly. Whatever gets said on here isn't quite the same as El Ghazi deciding he's had enough after a slight graze to the cheek in a must win game. That's where we need people rolling their sleeves up, on the field. If the team wasn't so utterly feeble we'd probably have more confidence that they're capable of getting out of the shit.
How you doing Steve, Newcastle treating you well?
Just to be clear, we really need to get over the idea that we'd be fine if we just tried a bit harder. It's the 2nd myth that Villa fans turn to in a bad run (after accusing the team of not being fit enough). Neither of those things are the problem. Our issue is about personal responsibility and self-confidence, not lack of effort or fitness (aside from 1-2 players).
Aside from one to two players...so only the ten to twenty percent of a match day team then. We're not good enough in most matches with everybody firing on all cylinders, so god knows how you expect us to do with two of them not pulling their weight.
I meant drinkwater and davis
Post by: brontebilly on February 29, 2020, 09:48:00 PM
Post by: London Villan on February 29, 2020, 10:03:02 PM
Post by: supertom on February 29, 2020, 10:13:05 PM
West Ham and Watford deciding to win the weekend we're off to Wembley. Bloody football. Still...if Watford can beat Liverpool (and even Sloth can score a goal against a side that isn't us), it gives us hope for tomorrow.
Post by: Drummond on February 29, 2020, 10:25:11 PM
See you then. Meanwhile I'm off to bed, need it to prepare for tomorrow.
Post by: OzVilla on March 01, 2020, 12:45:19 AM
Norwich, Bournemouth and Newcastle to get relegated (remember where you heard it first).
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 01, 2020, 02:05:37 AM
Control it and play nice football? What an absolute fucking scandal!
Nice winning football would be great. Rubbish winning football would do for the next ten games. Nice, losing football would at least show that improvements could be made. For most of the last few months, it's been rubbish, losing football.
Sad but very true. Maybe it was the start of the season that Dean thought he was onto something? He wasn't. It's been shite!
Post by: Richard E on March 01, 2020, 08:07:11 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 01, 2020, 08:49:40 AM
I like how people think 20th place Norwich can definitely survive because they won on Friday but we’re doomed despite having a game in hand and four more points.Norwich have been playing well, West Ham put in a great performance yesterday and Watford beat Liverpool.
Look at our form.
Post by: Demitri_C on March 01, 2020, 08:51:36 AM
I like how people think 20th place Norwich can definitely survive because they won on Friday but we’re doomed despite having a game in hand and four more points.
I think thats down to the fight these trams are showing recently compared to us.
We showed a lot of heart and passion earlier in in the season and now it seems to have gone.
If we get that back we have a chance for sure
Post by: Villan82 on March 01, 2020, 10:52:27 AM
Control it and play nice football? What an absolute fucking scandal!
Nice winning football would be great. Rubbish winning football would do for the next ten games. Nice, losing football would at least show that improvements could be made. For most of the last few months, it's been rubbish, losing football.
Seeing as I am getting stick for my comment we would have an extra point if Engels' instinct was to just boot the fucking ball into row z with about 15 seconds on the clock.
Post by: purpletrousers on March 01, 2020, 10:59:02 AM
I’m glad the racist we got kicked out after the Newcastle game has gone, the sort of toxic ‘support’ a club just doesn’t need, constantly getting at our own players. Of course people pay their money and there is free speech, but I’ll never get how easily some fans turn on their players when it could make things worse.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 01, 2020, 11:15:37 AM
Post by: levico on March 01, 2020, 10:46:15 PM
Let’s hope we go down with dignity, not the wimper of last time.
Some dark days ahead for our glorious club I’m afraid.
Post by: Villan82 on March 01, 2020, 11:07:33 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 02, 2020, 05:35:15 AM
I am crossing my fingers and toes that we can dig out 4 wins.Struggling to see 4 teams we can beat.
Post by: OzVilla on March 02, 2020, 05:48:35 AM
I am crossing my fingers and toes that we can dig out 4 wins.Struggling to see 4 teams we can beat.
Depends which Villa turn up. The Villa against Spurs or Leicester and there's plenty, the Villa against Southampton or Bournemouth and there's none.
Therein lies the problem.
Post by: SheffieldVillain on March 02, 2020, 06:11:55 AM
I am crossing my fingers and toes that we can dig out 4 wins.Struggling to see 4 teams we can beat.
Depends which Villa turn up. The Villa against Spurs or Leicester and there's plenty, the Villa against Southampton or Bournemouth and there's none.
Therein lies the problem.
Very true.
It would be difficult for anyone to say that Palace or West Ham are unbeatable. We've already beaten Everton, Newcastle and Leicester from the teams we've still to play so we certainly can beat them. Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal are all wildly inconsistent so who knows? There are plenty of points to be had there if we are at it.
Post by: ROBBO on March 02, 2020, 09:05:51 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 09:22:05 AM
Leicester are gunnibg fir us after we beat them but they ahve hit a bit if a purple patch at the mo.
Post by: Ads on March 02, 2020, 09:25:20 AM
Post by: Des Little on March 02, 2020, 09:30:20 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 09:30:34 AM
They've drawn 2 and lost 2 of their last 4 games since we beat them in the cup.
Vardy isnt fit and when he dont play well Leicester tend to struggle. I personally think we can get something if we show yesterdays team performance. If its the ine against Southampton we will get tonked.
Id take a point if offered now
Post by: Luke8 on March 02, 2020, 10:03:59 AM
I am crossing my fingers and toes that we can dig out 4 wins.Struggling to see 4 teams we can beat.
Depends which Villa turn up. The Villa against Spurs or Leicester and there's plenty, the Villa against Southampton or Bournemouth and there's none.
Therein lies the problem.
This is the key. I think we have shown enough times that we are capable of competing against any team in the league (yesterday, Liverpool at home, Leicester twice in the cup) but also that we can throw in utterly abject performances (Bournemouth, Southampton, Watford).
If we can have some sort of consistency in our performances to somewhere near the level that we are capable of playing to we should be fine.
Obviously, this also applies to the teams around us. Feels worse as this was a bad weekend where everyone picked up points. But the other teams in the bottom eight picked up a whole one point combined just the weekend before.
Post by: Villan82 on March 02, 2020, 10:05:14 AM
Fat Sam went for my picks Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth hope he's right.
Oh really? Where was this?
Post by: Richard E on March 02, 2020, 10:43:17 AM
Fat Sam went for my picks Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth hope he's right.
Oh really? Where was this?
Hopefully it was at a top secret meeting with the Premier League, the referees and copious amounts of money in brown envelopes.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 02, 2020, 11:09:03 AM
Team with injuries (looks like Tammy is out) and they must be close to conceding as many goals from corners as we are so that's something for Samatta to exploit.
Like any major team they have good players in attacking midfield and final third but don't think they have the pace of what Spurs did.
Can see it being tight (think Chelsea have won only won twice by two goal margin at VP in 20 years) so we really need to get on the right side of the margins e.g. none of our CBs making ridiculous error in the 94th minute and think we'll get at least a draw from it as Bournemouth did at the weekend.
Post by: Villafirst on March 02, 2020, 12:10:16 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 02, 2020, 12:42:29 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Post by: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 01:42:12 PM
Post by: villadelph on March 02, 2020, 03:02:31 PM
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 02, 2020, 03:15:52 PM
Fat Sam went for my picks Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth hope he's right.
Oh really? Where was this?
they are my picks too
Post by: Richard E on March 02, 2020, 03:31:49 PM
Anyone else’s coworkers particularly annoying today?
No more so than they are on every other single day of my miserable existence.
Post by: supertom on March 02, 2020, 04:25:37 PM
Leicester - 1pt
Newcastle - 1pt
The two I think we've got the best chance in are Sheffield Utd and Palace. We need to win both, but are we likely to win both?
Chelsea - 1pt (but looking at our record against top 6, it almost feels an inevitable loss)
West Ham - 1pt.
Wolves - 1pt.
At my most optimistic. I think we're looking somewhere between 33 points and 38 (if we can pull of a couple of surprises). 33 won't be enough. 38, by a shade, might be.
Not bricking it...not bricking it at all... :'(
Post by: john e on March 02, 2020, 04:31:58 PM
but after the final my hopes have been raised again
Post by: Villafirst on March 02, 2020, 04:39:45 PM
He won't be starting all of those games and will need time to build his match fitness up. Could still score a crucial goal or two in the run in from April but I wouldn't be expecting miracles straight away.
You mean like Jack's thunderbolt against Derby on his return after 4 months out?
Post by: Bobby Boy on March 02, 2020, 04:51:48 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 02, 2020, 05:27:33 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 02, 2020, 05:54:47 PM
I'm not convinced Jack's problem was just cramp. If he's picked up a knock and is out for any period of time, I'd say that's us done and dusted.
Smith was quoted in the B'ham Mail saying it was just cramp....
Post by: TheMalandro on March 02, 2020, 06:40:20 PM
Post by: David_Nab on March 02, 2020, 06:46:52 PM
I honestly don't know where the next win comes from.
Leicester - 1pt
Newcastle - 1pt
The two I think we've got the best chance in are Sheffield Utd and Palace. We need to win both, but are we likely to win both?
Chelsea - 1pt (but looking at our record against top 6, it almost feels an inevitable loss)
West Ham - 1pt.
Wolves - 1pt.
At my most optimistic. I think we're looking somewhere between 33 points and 38 (if we can pull of a couple of surprises). 33 won't be enough. 38, by a shade, might be.
Not bricking it...not bricking it at all... :'(
It's hard to pick results , as we get closer to end of the season we are going to play teams with differing motivations.An example we could play Liverpool who are champions and having lost the the unbeaten record who knows what performance they will put in , add that they may rest players for CL
Palace could be safe and have little to play for
Leicester are dropping off and could be without Vardy again , their record of the last month or so inc the cup games against us have been pretty average.
The final one is West Ham , we could go there needing to stay up playing a team now safe coasting on their final home game of the season or a team battling to stay up with us ...
It's a cliche but really need to take each game as it comes now
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2020, 07:02:53 PM
This season may not be completed if Covid-19 develops as it appears to be. The Swiss football season has already been suspended.....Which should mean no promotions or relegations this season.😂😂😂
Post by: frank black on March 02, 2020, 07:14:48 PM
This season may not be completed if Covid-19 develops as it appears to be. The Swiss football season has already been suspended.....Which should mean no promotions or relegations this season.😂😂😂
First team to come to mind for some reason after this comment wasn’t us. It was Leeds, after they finally look like promotion certainties 😂
Post by: themossman on March 02, 2020, 07:17:31 PM
Post by: ROBBO on March 02, 2020, 08:37:29 PM
Fat Sam went for my picks Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth hope he's right.
Oh really? Where was this?
On the after game show on beinsports, he talked about the teams facing relegation and said it was crazy for teams fighting to stay up to play out from the back as it put too much pressure on defenders and said if the ball is in the opposition half there is no danger.
Post by: Villan82 on March 02, 2020, 08:39:29 PM
Fat Sam went for my picks Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth hope he's right.
Oh really? Where was this?
On the after game show on beinsports, he talked about the teams facing relegation and said it was crazy for teams fighting to stay up to play out from the back as it put too much pressure on defenders and said if the ball is in the opposition half there is no danger.
Thanks for that.
I said something similar about the Engels mistake against Spurs and some didn't take too kindly!
More seriously, I agree, safety first should be the mantra when in our position.Grind out some points.
Post by: London Villan on March 02, 2020, 09:18:29 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 03, 2020, 04:29:31 AM
Post by: Scovilla on March 03, 2020, 06:35:12 AM
When McGinn returns we'll be stronger than we've been at any other point of the season.When is he expected to return?
Post by: OzVilla on March 03, 2020, 06:59:53 AM
When McGinn returns we'll be stronger than we've been at any other point of the season.When is he expected to return?
Another 2 weeks away.
Post by: aj2k77 on March 03, 2020, 08:00:27 AM
What did Engels mistake against Spurs had to do with playing out from the back?
Because he tried to trap a ball out of the sky instead of giving it a great big welly back from whence it came?
Post by: robbo1874 on March 03, 2020, 08:18:18 AM
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 03, 2020, 08:31:54 AM
The report I saw said if they decide to cancel the three in the bottom three at the time will down. Just our luck that we've hovered above it for weeks but are now in it!!This season may not be completed if Covid-19 develops as it appears to be. The Swiss football season has already been suspended.....Which should mean no promotions or relegations this season.😂😂😂
Post by: Mister E on March 03, 2020, 08:42:30 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/02/aston-villa-take-heart-race-against-time-premier-league#comment-138645538
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2020, 08:59:32 AM
They have 2 choices , cancel the season or complete the season.The report I saw said if they decide to cancel the three in the bottom three at the time will down. Just our luck that we've hovered above it for weeks but are now in it!!This season may not be completed if Covid-19 develops as it appears to be. The Swiss football season has already been suspended.....Which should mean no promotions or relegations this season.😂😂😂
If they arbitrarily relegated teams without completing the season they would be subject to massive law suits.
Post by: Richard E on March 03, 2020, 09:10:19 AM
They have 2 choices , cancel the season or complete the season.The report I saw said if they decide to cancel the three in the bottom three at the time will down. Just our luck that we've hovered above it for weeks but are now in it!!This season may not be completed if Covid-19 develops as it appears to be. The Swiss football season has already been suspended.....Which should mean no promotions or relegations this season.😂😂😂
If they arbitrarily relegated teams without completing the season they would be subject to massive law suits.
That would be arbitrary.
The criteria should be:-
First, any teams with a German manager/head coach.
If that does not fill all of the relegation places, next any team holding the registration of a player named Troy Deeney.
Post by: cumbriavilla on March 03, 2020, 09:15:03 AM
But we have a game in hand...that would be unfair.The report I saw said if they decide to cancel the three in the bottom three at the time will down. Just our luck that we've hovered above it for weeks but are now in it!!This season may not be completed if Covid-19 develops as it appears to be. The Swiss football season has already been suspended.....Which should mean no promotions or relegations this season.😂😂😂
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2020, 10:38:50 AM
Suggestion is now games to be played behind close doors.They have 2 choices , cancel the season or complete the season.The report I saw said if they decide to cancel the three in the bottom three at the time will down. Just our luck that we've hovered above it for weeks but are now in it!!This season may not be completed if Covid-19 develops as it appears to be. The Swiss football season has already been suspended.....Which should mean no promotions or relegations this season.😂😂😂
If they arbitrarily relegated teams without completing the season they would be subject to massive law suits.
That would be arbitrary.
The criteria should be:-
First, any teams with a German manager/head coach.
If that does not fill all of the relegation places, next any team holding the registration of a player named Troy Deeney.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 03, 2020, 01:25:29 PM
They have 2 choices , cancel the season or complete the season.The report I saw said if they decide to cancel the three in the bottom three at the time will down. Just our luck that we've hovered above it for weeks but are now in it!!This season may not be completed if Covid-19 develops as it appears to be. The Swiss football season has already been suspended.....Which should mean no promotions or relegations this season.😂😂😂
If they arbitrarily relegated teams without completing the season they would be subject to massive law suits.
Given that we're looking at probably 12 months before there's a widely available vaccine, calling a cut-off of this season now would be a bit daft when chances are you still couldn't start a new one in August anyway. It'd be weird, and the world would become a very peculiar place to the likes of us lot, but the way to go would be a 12 month suspension with everything left as it stands now, then pick up again at the same point next year.
Post by: olaftab on March 03, 2020, 04:23:35 PM
That is an excellent, fair and just criteria. No one will argue against that. If you change your name to Dickdistard Distard E you will be eminently qualified to be the next General Secretary of the United Nations.
The criteria should be:-
First, any teams with a German manager/head coach.
If that does not fill all of the relegation places, next any team holding the registration of a player named Troy Deeney.
Post by: ian c. on March 03, 2020, 07:55:02 PM
... the way to go would be a 12 month suspension with everything left as it stands now, then pick up again at the same point next year.
How would the clubs cover their running costs during that period? I fear that there wouldn't be too many left after a 12 month suspension. Even playing behind closed doors will put massive strain on lower league clubs who depend on gate receipts to pay wages.
Post by: Taylor on March 03, 2020, 09:07:19 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 04, 2020, 08:09:44 AM
Thats going to be unbearable 😡
Post by: TheMalandro on March 04, 2020, 08:55:58 AM
Looking at the fixtures liverpool need four wins to win the title. The 4th game is city away unlikey they will wrap it on that game. So that means the title wankfest will likely be against us.
Thats going to be unbearable 😡
Of FFS! That’s typical.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 04, 2020, 09:00:41 AM
Yep, just like Manure that year when Van Persie scored all those offside goals!!Looking at the fixtures liverpool need four wins to win the title. The 4th game is city away unlikey they will wrap it on that game. So that means the title wankfest will likely be against us.
Thats going to be unbearable 😡
Of FFS! That’s typical.
As long as 'The Mighty Reds YNWA''s collapse doesn't continue against Bournemouth!!!
Post by: Demitri_C on March 04, 2020, 10:06:32 AM
Looking at the fixtures liverpool need four wins to win the title. The 4th game is city away unlikey they will wrap it on that game. So that means the title wankfest will likely be against us.
Thats going to be unbearable 😡
Of FFS! That’s typical.
I know. Even if they win all four the firat home game as champions will be against us. Hopefully they drop more points before then so they can win the titke by tine we play them.
But i definitely wont be watching if there is any remote chance of them being champs. Cant stomach the sky wankfest
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 04, 2020, 10:23:50 AM
... the way to go would be a 12 month suspension with everything left as it stands now, then pick up again at the same point next year.
How would the clubs cover their running costs during that period? I fear that there wouldn't be too many left after a 12 month suspension. Even playing behind closed doors will put massive strain on lower league clubs who depend on gate receipts to pay wages.
There's no answer that allows everyone to simply carry on as usual. This either gets taken seriously and whatever is decided as the best course of action for the country is applicable to everyone and everything, or it isn't. Like you, ian, I can't see a middle ground.
Post by: mallo on March 04, 2020, 12:30:16 PM
... the way to go would be a 12 month suspension with everything left as it stands now, then pick up again at the same point next year.
How would the clubs cover their running costs during that period? I fear that there wouldn't be too many left after a 12 month suspension. Even playing behind closed doors will put massive strain on lower league clubs who depend on gate receipts to pay wages.
There's no answer that allows everyone to simply carry on as usual. This either gets taken seriously and whatever is decided as the best course of action for the country is applicable to everyone and everything, or it isn't. Like you, ian, I can't see a middle ground.
The question is - what would all those fans do if not at the match? - the answer would probably be in a more infectious environment.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 04, 2020, 01:47:57 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 04, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
More infection than being rammed into a stadium with 42,000 other people? What on earth have you hot in mind that could be more infectious than that, visiting hospital wards full of virus sufferers?
Selling live bats in Wuhan market? *
* yes yes yes, I know, it didn't really start that way.
Post by: fredm on March 04, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
More infection than being rammed into a stadium with 42,000 other people? What on earth have you hot in mind that could be more infectious than that, visiting hospital wards full of virus sufferers?
Numerous pockets of supporters crammed into public houses, watching the matches on television, and pushing past one another to reach the bar/toilets/outside for a fag.
Post by: russon on March 04, 2020, 06:34:56 PM
Looking at the fixtures liverpool need four wins to win the title. The 4th game is city away unlikey they will wrap it on that game. So that means the title wankfest will likely be against us.
Thats going to be unbearable 😡
Indeed, a prospect to fair curdle the blood and well and truly put a tin hat on our season. At least the away support’s vomathon will make it in the Guinness Book of Records, small consolation but I’m desperate to leave this season with a positive.
Post by: Risso on March 04, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
More infection than being rammed into a stadium with 42,000 other people? What on earth have you hot in mind that could be more infectious than that, visiting hospital wards full of virus sufferers?
Selling live bats in Wuhan market? *
* yes yes yes, I know, it didn't really start that way.
It did, didn't it?
Post by: Demitri_C on March 04, 2020, 08:17:02 PM
Johnny evans looks like he has picked up a bad injury
Post by: VinnieChase84 on March 05, 2020, 05:17:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2020, 05:02:00 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 07, 2020, 05:03:32 PM
Post by: Damo70 on March 07, 2020, 05:04:41 PM
A pretty good day today results wise. At least our fate is in our own hands......
We couldn't have asked for much better from todays games.
Post by: Drummond on March 07, 2020, 05:17:36 PM
A pretty good day today results wise. At least our fate is in our own hands......
We couldn't have asked for much better from todays games.
Agree, apart from Newcastle losing instead of Southampton... But that's being really picky.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 07, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
Overall though it's important points needed to finish 17th stays as low as possible. If 35 is what is needed we still have a pretty good chance.
Post by: eamonn on March 07, 2020, 05:22:06 PM
Post by: Villan82 on March 07, 2020, 05:45:12 PM
Right now, would be delighted with a point on Monday and would then target a point against Chelsea. A point at Newcastle wouldn't be bad if we then go all out to beat Palace and Sheff Utd at home. Can see us raising our game against Wolves also...
I personally would take a situation where both ourselves and West Ham can stay up with a draw on the final day!
We can do this if we become a little bit harder to beat.
Post by: SheffieldVillain on March 07, 2020, 05:47:31 PM
I personally would take a situation where both ourselves and West Ham can stay up with a draw on the final day!
Yes. Tap it around for 89 minutes pretending to be playing for the draw and then score in the last minute to send them down. I like this idea.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 07, 2020, 05:47:40 PM
I personally would take a situation where both ourselves and West Ham can stay up with a draw on the final day!
I'll take that providing we beat them.
Post by: Legion on March 07, 2020, 06:13:26 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 07, 2020, 06:40:43 PM
A pretty good day today results wise. At least our fate is in our own hands......It has always been in our own hands.
Post by: eamonn on March 07, 2020, 06:45:46 PM
Post by: Damo70 on March 07, 2020, 06:49:41 PM
A pretty good day today results wise. At least our fate is in our own hands......It has always been in our own hands.
I know have an unpleasant ear worm of the Nottingham Forest team singing 'We Got The Whole World In Our Hands'.
"And Peter the keeper with nothing to do...."
Post by: Fred Crump on March 07, 2020, 06:57:09 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 07, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
A point would be a great result for us. We have to show fight heart and passion now like we did against citeh.
Post by: Villafirst on March 07, 2020, 09:47:12 PM
Any idea as to when our games with t'Blades and Barcodes will be rescheduled? Don't think our record is good in weekend to midweek turn-around games this season.
The good thing is SJM will play in the rearranged games. He's been sorely missed since that injury.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 07, 2020, 10:12:18 PM
Much better day today. 2 points from safety with 2 games in hand.
Right now, would be delighted with a point on Monday and would then target a point against Chelsea. A point at Newcastle wouldn't be bad if we then go all out to beat Palace and Sheff Utd at home. Can see us raising our game against Wolves also...
I personally would take a situation where both ourselves and West Ham can stay up with a draw on the final day!
We can do this if we become a little bit harder to beat.
Quite a few posters on various threads keep mentioning Sheff Utd game one to target for a win. I think this is based on nothing other than there called Sheff Utd. Form wise, I think it’ll be one of our toughest games, there good at home and better away. I actually fancy us against Chelsea, Man Utd and arsenal more than Sheff Utd.
Given that Southampton have now lost 5 out of the last 6, our result/performance a couple of weeks ago looks even worse now. But we played ok last week and showed heart which will be really important for coming weeks. I just really hope we turn up on Monday. Without stupidly gun ho, we need to take some risks now, we need wins and the quicker the better.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 07, 2020, 10:14:06 PM
Any idea as to when our games with t'Blades and Barcodes will be rescheduled? Don't think our record is good in weekend to midweek turn-around games this season.
Let's be honest our record hasn't been good full stop this season.
Post by: robleflaneur on March 08, 2020, 12:54:43 AM
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on March 08, 2020, 01:10:58 AM
Post by: ez on March 08, 2020, 08:46:32 AM
Post by: Steve67 on March 08, 2020, 10:38:52 AM
Post by: Villan82 on March 08, 2020, 02:45:55 PM
That's why I think draws in our next two would be good results providing we get something at Newcastle and target 3 wins from: Palace at home, Sheff Utd at home, Wolves at home, Man U at home and Arsenal at home.
Would take the pressure off the West Ha, game.
Such a shame we lost our last 3 games. If we had a point or two more on the board, 2 more wins with a pile of draws might just be enough.
Post by: Richie on March 08, 2020, 05:35:59 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 09, 2020, 07:59:38 AM
We know what a key role the fans play at villa park
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 09, 2020, 09:31:10 AM
Would be pretty rubbish if games get played behind closed doors starting this weekend, admittedly, as we would be the most disadvantaged team in the entire league. Only Man City have played as few home games as us, and they host Arsenal on Wednesday.
Post by: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 09:37:12 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 09, 2020, 09:38:11 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 09, 2020, 09:41:38 AM
Post by: LeeB on March 09, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
France have also banned meetings of more than a thousand people, so effectively meaning games will have to be played behind closed doors. Olympiacos' game against Wolves is being played in an empty stadium, too. Although, if you give them a few years, Wolves will still be claiming that they took 70,000 fans there.
It's a shame they can't just close two stands, they'd feel right at home then.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 09, 2020, 10:41:58 AM
Post by: LeeB on March 09, 2020, 11:04:51 AM
They could close two and have one fifty yards from the pitch. Would mean there was less chance of players catching it from the fans, too.
They could restrict the crowd to about 3500 as well, and force the other fans to follow the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd.
Like they did in the eighties.
Post by: Drummond on March 09, 2020, 03:14:18 PM
Matches Position
4 17th (lower than Southampton, West Ham and Brighton and above Norwich on goal difference)
6 20th (lower than Watford, Norwich, Bournemouth and Brighton on goal difference)
8 18th (lower than Norwich and Bournemouth on goal difference)
10 16th (lower than Newcastle on goal diffference)
Post by: Damo70 on March 09, 2020, 05:56:22 PM
The form guide over the past number of games has to give us hope, particularly if we can tighten the defence, the Man City defeat has quite an effect on the goal difference).
Matches Position
4 17th (lower than Southampton, West Ham and Brighton and above Norwich on goal difference)
6 20th (lower than Watford, Norwich, Bournemouth and Brighton on goal difference)
8 18th (lower than Norwich and Bournemouth on goal difference)
10 16th (lower than Newcastle on goal diffference)
I have just seen the front page of the Sun's 'Goals' pull out from Saturday whilst waiting in the Indian takeaway. Apparently some number crunchers have calculated the mathematical chances of the struggling teams to go down.
Southampton 1% chance of going down
Newcastle 5%
West Ham 27%
Watford 30%
Brighton 41%
Villa 54%
Bournemouth 54%
Norwich 88%
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 09, 2020, 05:58:49 PM
That looks about right.The form guide over the past number of games has to give us hope, particularly if we can tighten the defence, the Man City defeat has quite an effect on the goal difference).
Matches Position
4 17th (lower than Southampton, West Ham and Brighton and above Norwich on goal difference)
6 20th (lower than Watford, Norwich, Bournemouth and Brighton on goal difference)
8 18th (lower than Norwich and Bournemouth on goal difference)
10 16th (lower than Newcastle on goal diffference)
I have just seen the front page of the Sun's 'Goals' pull out from Saturday whilst waiting in the Indian takeaway. Apparently some number crunchers have calculated the mathematical chances of the struggling teams to go down.
Southampton 1% chance of going down
Newcastle 5%
West Ham 27%
Watford 30%
Brighton 41%
Villa 54%
Bournemouth 54%
Norwich 88%
Post by: levico on March 09, 2020, 08:47:19 PM
Post by: wince on March 09, 2020, 08:52:51 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 09, 2020, 08:56:46 PM
Post by: Villan82 on March 09, 2020, 09:07:05 PM
You have to be ruthless in football, no room for sentiment. The players were clearly demoralised by the shite points total despite being in most games in the first quarter of the season.
Since then morale and form have fallen apart.
Joke.
Post by: villabear on March 09, 2020, 09:17:24 PM
I’ve no idea if he’d be any better with these players but I’m no more positive about our plight now than a few weeks ago.
ps. Feel a bit dirty even mentioning it but...
Post by: Villan82 on March 09, 2020, 09:19:08 PM
Everton haven't been relegated for that reason. How many others?
Why do villa think it's not worth doing fucking everything you can to try stay up?
Post by: CT on March 09, 2020, 09:25:13 PM
Post by: Ad@m on March 09, 2020, 09:32:12 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 09, 2020, 09:35:57 PM
Probably be huff and puff v Chelsea on Saturday but it's a stretch to see us even winning two more games this season and we won't be close to staying up if we even manage that.
I still think DS will be here in August but going down with a real whimper will put a serious question mark on that.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 09, 2020, 09:38:39 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 09, 2020, 09:38:52 PM
We're going aren't we. We're laughably poor.We have all those traits,
We give up winning positions, we make huge errors and throw points away like confetti.
We don’t challenge the refs when we are on the end of poor decisions. Don’t score from or defend corners.
Lack leadership, we have no real shape or system.
Post by: Ad@m on March 09, 2020, 09:39:30 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 09, 2020, 09:44:39 PM
We were on 25 points after beating Watford on January 21st ffs. And have winnable games straight after.
Poor poor poor.
Post by: richtheholtender on March 09, 2020, 09:53:06 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 09, 2020, 10:22:26 PM
First time i've thought we're fucked. We look a team that's already done.
Afraid I agree. It’s the lack of winning any second balls which is hard to stomach, it just looks like a lack of desire.
Just before their 3rd we had possibly our only half decent attack of second half, balls intercepted from a Davies through ball and I swear 3 of our players are a half yard nearer the ball than their defender who inevitably wins the ball and kicks off a counter.
It happened all night and all of them inc grealish, with the possible exception of Nakamba in very small doses, made no where near enough effort.
Other than trying Davies and Samatta up front, I don’t know where we go, clutching at straws now.
Post by: ez on March 09, 2020, 10:31:35 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 09, 2020, 10:37:27 PM
Not only do I think we’ll drop but I also think this time round could be our Leeds. It’s going to be yet another rebuild.
I don't really get that though.
Last time we went down we were a proper basketcase Sunderland type club. We got up within three years. Could've easily been two if we'd actually turned up for the first hour v Fulham.
We did that with a kid in sweet shop owner and safety first manager.
If these owners are as good as most think they are they will make a big decision on DS future, appoint a competant manager for the level below and more importantly instruct him to sign proven players for that level.
We actually did that under Xia albeit by just throwing money at anything that moved but we still had a more than good squad if not one that could adapt to premier league.
Being a good board isn't just taking credit when we get promoted, it's showing good leadership and decision making going forward when we had to sell a key player like Grealish.
That day is coming this summer. Leicester sold one of their best players for 70m last summer but you wouldn't know it watching them tonight.
Now that is a superbly run club from the top imo especially after the tragedy of last season.
Post by: myf on March 09, 2020, 10:39:44 PM
8
If we don't even reach 30 points (which looks a very strong possibility now) I think he'll be sacked.
We were on 25 points after beating Watford on January 21st ffs. And have winnable games straight after.
Poor poor poor.
If we don't even reach 30 points (which looks a very strong possibility now) I think he'll be sacked.
We were on 25 points after beating Watford on January 21st ffs. And have winnable games straight after.
Poor poor poor.
Getting to the final has ruined us. 25 points with 14 to play should have been relatively comfortable. I've said it before but Smith doesn't know how to draw a match and that's crucial in the Prem
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 09, 2020, 10:47:51 PM
That game in hand v Sheffield utd and a rousing performance ,some how , vs Chelsea and still fighting chance.
Leicester didn't even have to do so much to win the match tonight which was most frustrating.
Other than the first 10 minutes and a period before the 3rd goal Villa never in it.
However playing the 3rd best team and that was a match which was difficult to get something from.
Liverpool away will be the other perhaps
Apart from that the rest of the fixtures are down to villa and how they perform
Post by: CT on March 09, 2020, 10:56:18 PM
The home matches are where it's at now.
That game in hand v Sheffield utd and a rousing performance ,some how , vs Chelsea and still fighting chance.
Leicester didn't even have to do so much to win the match tonight which was most frustrating.
Other than the first 10 minutes and a period before the 3rd goal Villa never in it.
However playing the 3rd best team and that was a match which was difficult to get something from.
Liverpool away will be the other perhaps
Apart from that the rest of the fixtures are down to villa and how they perform
Only one question. Where's all the "rousing" and "fighting" coming from?
Post by: Steve67 on March 09, 2020, 11:01:11 PM
The home matches are where it's at now.
That game in hand v Sheffield utd and a rousing performance ,some how , vs Chelsea and still fighting chance.
Leicester didn't even have to do so much to win the match tonight which was most frustrating.
Other than the first 10 minutes and a period before the 3rd goal Villa never in it.
However playing the 3rd best team and that was a match which was difficult to get something from.
Liverpool away will be the other perhaps
Apart from that the rest of the fixtures are down to villa and how they perform
Only one question. Where's all the "rousing" and "fighting" coming from?
Must be outside the ground because it's certainly not happening on the pitch.
Post by: myf on March 09, 2020, 11:43:39 PM
Post by: Villan82 on March 09, 2020, 11:46:48 PM
crashing out the Prem and replaced with dirty Leeds and the boggies, Liverpool champions and dogheads flying. 2 trips to the Sty next season and having to play Cov. grealish at Manure. Jesus wept
Staying up was paramount. I am so angry with the club. I would have happily gone out in round two of the league cup just to prioritise survival. Staying up was everything-
Post by: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 11:51:17 PM
We are genuinely awful.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 10, 2020, 12:18:16 AM
Ultimately we've stopped trying in away games (not that the away form has been great all season) and that's pretty unforgivable in this situation.
Post by: Des Little on March 10, 2020, 12:47:25 AM
Anybody that watched our last 4 league games, Bournemouth, Spurs, Southampton and Leicester and still thinks we’ll stay up needs sectioning. 3 of arguably our worst performances of the season and the other we gifted a win. All of those teams were and are on terrible runs accept when they play us.
We are genuinely awful.
My thoughts exactly. Some of the performances of late really have been down there with anything the class of 2015 could muster. Absolute dog shit.
Post by: Risso on March 10, 2020, 12:53:12 AM
Anybody that watched our last 4 league games, Bournemouth, Spurs, Southampton and Leicester and still thinks we’ll stay up needs sectioning. 3 of arguably our worst performances of the season and the other we gifted a win. All of those teams were and are on terrible runs accept when they play us.
We are genuinely awful.
My thoughts exactly. Some of the performances of late really have been down there with anything the class of 2015 could muster. Absolute dog shit.
We conceded exactly two goals a game on average that season, and so far we're on course to match that. Well done Dean, it takes some going to be as crap as that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 10, 2020, 06:33:52 AM
Post by: Three Spires Villa on March 10, 2020, 06:45:02 AM
The home matches are where it's at now.
That game in hand v Sheffield utd and a rousing performance ,some how , vs Chelsea and still fighting chance.
Leicester didn't even have to do so much to win the match tonight which was most frustrating.
Other than the first 10 minutes and a period before the 3rd goal Villa never in it.
However playing the 3rd best team and that was a match which was difficult to get something from.
Liverpool away will be the other perhaps
Apart from that the rest of the fixtures are down to villa and how they perform
Do you really, really think we are going to start winning games? Why should we beat Sheffield United? They are a good team. We are going down because of inept performances against teams around us, with the exception of Norwich away. Watford and Southampton should have sealed his fate. Dean should have been sacked then. Before the “keep the faith” brigade start, oh yes it’s my fault because I walked into the ground last night not believing we would win, because as fans we can mind control the game!!! Dean Smith (this season) is not a Premiership manager and at the end of the season Aston Villa will not be a premier league club.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 10, 2020, 06:53:33 AM
We are consistently terrible. It is unacceptable.
I’ve watched Norwich more than I’m comfortable with this season and you get the impression that they are a little unlucky to be bottom, that they are one or two players away from being a reasonable side.
We have no shape, allow teams to completely dominate us, give space in the box and are completely one dimensional in attack.
I have zero belief in this side.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 10, 2020, 07:05:58 AM
Post by: clash city rocker on March 10, 2020, 07:13:24 AM
crashing out the Prem and replaced with dirty Leeds and the boggies, Liverpool champions and dogheads flying. 2 trips to the Sty next season and having to play Cov. grealish at Manure. Jesus wept
Reading this has just ruined my day.
Post by: in exile on March 10, 2020, 07:30:08 AM
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 07:32:22 AM
Reina's utter stupidity for the first
Beaten at his near post twice
The shambles at corners in failing to mark
The 5 or 6 times in the first half alone we passed ourselves into trouble
The ease teams break beyond our midfield
Then you couple that with playing Championship players against teams with a lot of quality, what are you realistically expecting? Elmo and Hourihane, just why?
The absence of any attacking structure. Last night Leicester breezed back into form without being particularly good. They made the pitch big, with Barnes and Albrighton playing very high and very wide.
What was our method? What were we hoping to achieve?
That Reina mistake was so bad, it killed any hope. The absence of organisation has been there all season, but it's only getting worse.
Post by: WarszaVillan on March 10, 2020, 07:38:57 AM
Post by: Damo70 on March 10, 2020, 07:40:41 AM
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 09:29:42 AM
Then you couple that with playing Championship players against teams with a lot of quality, what are you realistically expecting? Elmo and Hourihane, just why?
Is there a viable alternative though? Not disagreeing but we have too many players/position where the limitations and weaknesses severely outweighs their strengths.
Post by: aj2k77 on March 10, 2020, 09:32:47 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 10, 2020, 10:28:41 AM
Being fair, Elmo was at times last season struggling to look like he was a good Championship player, he should be nowhere near a Premier team's line up. Smith just looks like he's shuffling the pack and hoping to hit something. There's 10 games left and he doesn't know which formation suits the players he purchased or his best 11. It's pathetically poorly organised.
Maybe the tools he has at his disposal just aren't good enough. We're getting found out the longer the season goes on which isn't a surprise really, it often happens with newly promoted sides. I was just too optimistic earlier in the season as I felt we'd do ok and that Sheff United would be the ones found out, however, their strength and system has really helped....
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 10, 2020, 10:39:55 AM
We are consistently terrible. It is unacceptable.
I’ve watched Norwich more than I’m comfortable with this season and you get the impression that they are a little unlucky to be bottom, that they are one or two players away from being a reasonable side.
We have no shape, allow teams to completely dominate us, give space in the box and are completely one dimensional in attack.
I have zero belief in this side.
They're the same as us, simply can't defend. If they'd signed a Mings type CB they'd probably be 17th.
Worth noting they won the championship last season conceding nearly 60 goals so pretty much the same as us.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 10, 2020, 10:54:49 AM
Exactly this. Wesley was just a ridiculous gamble that didn't pay off. Marv and Doug have good potential but were just the wrong players for us at the time given our circumstances. Trez much the same, but worse than these two.Being fair, Elmo was at times last season struggling to look like he was a good Championship player, he should be nowhere near a Premier team's line up. Smith just looks like he's shuffling the pack and hoping to hit something. There's 10 games left and he doesn't know which formation suits the players he purchased or his best 11. It's pathetically poorly organised.
Maybe the tools he has at his disposal just aren't good enough. We're getting found out the longer the season goes on which isn't a surprise really, it often happens with newly promoted sides. I was just too optimistic earlier in the season as I felt we'd do ok and that Sheff United would be the ones found out, however, their strength and system has really helped....
Ignoring loans and trying to move too quickly to the 'young and hungry' model has done for us. Again.
Post by: Fred Crump on March 10, 2020, 11:02:57 AM
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 11:37:43 AM
Contracted to the club, we had two players of good Premiership quality, maybe 4/5 that should be useful within a squad at this level and one or two promising kids. And that was literally it. That scale of rebuild is pretty unprecedented.
Could the recruitment have been better? Yes. Were we naive to ignore some aspects of the market? Almost certainly. We gambled that the players would improve enough and come together across the season and at the moment it looking like it won’t quite work but it was a really tough position to be in and a difficult job to get right.
Post by: phantom limb on March 10, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
We had to quickly assemble a squad and we know that three of the main summer targets that Smith wanted we were quoted big money for. So they took a gamble on a lot of these players, most of whom will probably go on to have decent careers much like Traore, Vertout, Gaye etc. Chucking them all in at once and hoping everything would work out ok was the problem.
Post by: Drummond on March 10, 2020, 03:57:33 PM
The form guide over the past number of games has to give us hope, particularly if we can tighten the defence, the Man City defeat has quite an effect on the goal difference).
Matches Position
4 17th (lower than Southampton, West Ham and Brighton and above Norwich on goal difference)
6 20th (lower than Watford, Norwich, Bournemouth and Brighton on goal difference)
8 18th (lower than Norwich and Bournemouth on goal difference)
10 16th (lower than Newcastle on goal diffference)
After last night this has obviously changed......
Matches Position
4 20th (We have 0 points and Bournemouth - 1 point, Norwich, Southampton, West Ham, Brighton - 3 points, the teams above)
6 20th (lower than Watford, Norwich, Bournemouth and Brighton on goal difference)
8 18th (lower than Norwich and Bournemouth on goal difference)
10 16th (lower than Newcastle on goal diffference)
So basically, whilst the only change is the 4 match streak, it really isn't good viewing. We're in the shit on recent form is the takeaway fact.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
Contracted to the club, we had two players of good Premiership quality, maybe 4/5 that should be useful within a squad at this level and one or two promising kids. And that was literally it. That scale of rebuild is pretty unprecedented.
Could the recruitment have been better? Yes. Were we naive to ignore some aspects of the market? Almost certainly. We gambled that the players would improve enough and come together across the season and at the moment it looking like it won’t quite work but it was a really tough position to be in and a difficult job to get right.
I like what Sheffield Utd have done.
And they have players of John Lundstrum and John Fleck. Who may not have been suggested as premier league players but have done very well
Players that fit the mould.
Villa were making deals with idea to protect financier and put out some clever marketing with signing the Brazilians.
When some were risks all ends up with nothing outfield proven coming in till January.
Post by: Des Little on March 10, 2020, 04:39:59 PM
Post by: villa for life on March 10, 2020, 04:46:11 PM
Yet time and time again, a fair few of our flops go on to do fairly well and many end up playing in the premiership with other sides and look ok.
I think it’s the manager’s experience that has cost us this season..
So frustrating that all parts never seem to click at the same time..
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 10, 2020, 04:51:32 PM
Could the recruitment have been better? Yes. Were we naive to ignore some aspects of the market? Almost certainly. We gambled that the players would improve enough and come together across the season and at the moment it looking like it won’t quite work but it was a really tough position to be in and a difficult job to get right.Difficult, but not impossible.
Post by: DrGonzo on March 10, 2020, 04:55:49 PM
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 06:57:37 PM
So basically, whilst the only change is the 4 match streak, it really isn't good viewing. We're in the shit on recent form is the takeaway fact.
Is it too optimistic/clutching at straws to say (hope) that if the form guide of the previous ten games repeats itself for the rest of the season that we stay up above West Ham and Bournemouth?
Post by: Axl Rose on March 11, 2020, 10:32:58 PM
Athletico winning through means Liverpool don't have to take the Villa game so easy.
Would rather have them distracted by the European champions league
We have no chance of getting anything from that match anyway, footy. I think, anyway.
They could put out the team that last won the league and we'd still struggle.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 11, 2020, 10:45:31 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 14, 2020, 06:50:32 AM
Post by: tony scott on March 14, 2020, 10:15:25 AM
Post by: Legion on March 14, 2020, 10:48:06 AM
Post by: Richard E on March 14, 2020, 09:39:57 PM
Post by: nigel on March 15, 2020, 07:08:12 PM
What would the bottom 3 look like?
I’d guess Watford and Norwich would take up two places with the third between us, Bournemouth and WHU
Post by: Mister E on March 15, 2020, 07:49:13 PM
I wonder if they’d consider a who’s been in the bottom 3 average for the season to decide?We've only just become a bottom-threer.
What would the bottom 3 look like?
I’d guess Watford and Norwich would take up two places with the third between us, Bournemouth and WHU
Post by: themossman on March 15, 2020, 08:03:54 PM
Post by: nigel on March 15, 2020, 10:26:19 PM
I wonder if they’d consider a who’s been in the bottom 3 average for the season to decide?We've only just become a bottom-threer.
What would the bottom 3 look like?
I’d guess Watford and Norwich would take up two places with the third between us, Bournemouth and WHU
Would Southampton still go on that basis? Hilarious prospect, even if there’s no chance that’s happening.
Thought we’d popped into bottom 3 a couple of times?
I’d forgotten about Southampton!
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 19, 2020, 12:48:57 AM
The bottom six GD and points
15 Brighton -8 29pts
16 West Ham -15 27pts
17 Watford -17 27pts
-------------------------------------------------
18 Bournemouth -18 27pts
19 Aston Villa -22 26pts
20 Norwich -27 21pts
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 19, 2020, 01:04:30 AM
Saturday 4 July
Norwich v Brighton
Tuesday 7 July
Watford v Norwich
Saturday 11 July
Norwich v West Ham
And sometime midweek 15 July or so
West Ham v Watford
And final day 26 July
West Ham v Villa
Bournemouth and Brighton have no matches against the bottom six .
Post by: Big Ming on June 19, 2020, 07:35:33 AM
Bottom line is we didn't win it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 19, 2020, 10:40:19 AM
Post by: Ads on June 19, 2020, 10:46:32 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 19, 2020, 10:52:38 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 19, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 19, 2020, 11:03:57 AM
Why was Sheffield United one of our most winnable? This arrogance keeps rearing its head. We have nine games remaining and only three of them are above Sheffield United. Only Liverpool, in all four divisions, have conceded fewer and they've only lost two of their last twenty-three away games, against Liverpool and Man City.All of this is true. But on the day they were there for the taking and it was a big opportunity missed.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 19, 2020, 11:12:08 AM
Remaining matches against teams challenging near the top:
Chelsea (h), Wolves (h), Liverpool (a), Man Utd (h), Arsenal (h)
Other matches left:
Newcastle (a), Palace (h), Everton (a), West Ham (a).
If we can get four points against teams near the top that would leave us requiring two wins out of four of the "winnable" games to get to 36, which is usually enough just to scrape survival.
Doesn't seem impossible, also doesn't mean that Chelsea is "must win" yet, either. Though oddly I fancy us more than I did on Wednesday.
The enforced break and drinks breaks suit Sheffield United's intense style of play. They were about the worst team we could have started against, other than Liverpool.
Post by: paul_e on June 19, 2020, 11:36:45 AM
We have seven wins, none of which are against teams in the top nine. We clearly need to improve that between now and the end of the season, but it doesn't make any of the matches against the elite teams "must win", at least not yet.
Remaining matches against teams challenging near the top:
Chelsea (h), Wolves (h), Liverpool (a), Man Utd (h), Arsenal (h)
Other matches left:
Newcastle (a), Palace (h), Everton (a), West Ham (a).
If we can get four points against teams near the top that would leave us requiring two wins out of four of the "winnable" games to get to 36, which is usually enough just to scrape survival.
Doesn't seem impossible, also doesn't mean that Chelsea is "must win" yet, either. Though oddly I fancy us more than I did on Wednesday.
The enforced break and drinks breaks suit Sheffield United's intense style of play. They were about the worst team we could have started against, other than Liverpool.
By the time we play them I suspect Liverpool, Palace, Everton and Arsenal will all be 'on the beach', Liverpool will still be a tough match but the other 3 are all games we should be targeting for points. 6-8 points from those 4 games is definitely reasonable and would mean 5-6 from the others could easily be enough. What I'd really like is for us to win 1, fairly soon, by a decent margin so our goal difference isn't working against us.
Looking through all the games I'd say Chelsea and Man U at home are the 2 'free hits' so I'd like us to be a bit braver in those games. To clarify all the other games are against teams with little to play for , a team in the battle with us or a local rival so they're the ones you'd target.
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 19, 2020, 11:41:14 AM
By the time we play them I suspect Liverpool, Palace, Everton and Arsenal will all be 'on the beach', Liverpool will still be a tough match but the other 3 are all games we should be targeting for points. 6-8 points from those 4 games is definitely reasonable and would mean 5-6 from the others could easily be enough. What I'd really like is for us to win 1, fairly soon, by a decent margin so our goal difference isn't working against us.
Looking through all the games I'd say Chelsea and Man U at home are the 2 'free hits' so I'd like us to be a bit braver in those games. To clarify all the other games are against teams with little to play for , a team in the battle with us or a local rival so they're the ones you'd target.
We talk about Manchester United being a free hit and Sheffield United being a must-win/if we can't beat them who can we beat? yet the reality is that there's one point and one league place between them.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 19, 2020, 12:03:47 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 19, 2020, 12:15:07 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 19, 2020, 01:44:56 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 19, 2020, 02:44:32 PM
By the time we play them I suspect Liverpool, Palace, Everton and Arsenal will all be 'on the beach', Liverpool will still be a tough match but the other 3 are all games we should be targeting for points. 6-8 points from those 4 games is definitely reasonable and would mean 5-6 from the others could easily be enough. What I'd really like is for us to win 1, fairly soon, by a decent margin so our goal difference isn't working against us.
Looking through all the games I'd say Chelsea and Man U at home are the 2 'free hits' so I'd like us to be a bit braver in those games. To clarify all the other games are against teams with little to play for , a team in the battle with us or a local rival so they're the ones you'd target.
We talk about Manchester United being a free hit and Sheffield United being a must-win/if we can't beat them who can we beat? yet the reality is that there's one point and one league place between them.
I never claimed sheff utd was a must win and all I mean by free hit is that they have as much to play for as well do, I'd have said the same about Sheff UTd if it hadn't been the first game back. As it was we needed to avoid a defeat and put in a decent performance to build on. I think we did exactly that and I'm not sure why so many people are determined to see Wednesday as 2 points dropped.
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 19, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
By the time we play them I suspect Liverpool, Palace, Everton and Arsenal will all be 'on the beach', Liverpool will still be a tough match but the other 3 are all games we should be targeting for points. 6-8 points from those 4 games is definitely reasonable and would mean 5-6 from the others could easily be enough. What I'd really like is for us to win 1, fairly soon, by a decent margin so our goal difference isn't working against us.
Looking through all the games I'd say Chelsea and Man U at home are the 2 'free hits' so I'd like us to be a bit braver in those games. To clarify all the other games are against teams with little to play for , a team in the battle with us or a local rival so they're the ones you'd target.
We talk about Manchester United being a free hit and Sheffield United being a must-win/if we can't beat them who can we beat? yet the reality is that there's one point and one league place between them.
I never claimed sheff utd was a must win and all I mean by free hit is that they have as much to play for as well do, I'd have said the same about Sheff UTd if it hadn't been the first game back. As it was we needed to avoid a defeat and put in a decent performance to build on. I think we did exactly that and I'm not sure why so many people are determined to see Wednesday as 2 points dropped.
Sorry - I know you didn't say that; I was using it as an example to support what you say. There's a strange double standard that's saying becasue we didn't beat what looked like poor opposition we're doomed, when more valid is the belief that we were better than a top six side, which is encouraging.
Post by: paul_e on June 19, 2020, 03:03:53 PM
Sorry - I know you didn't say that; I was using it as an example to support what you say. There's a strange double standard that's saying becasue we didn't beat what looked like poor opposition we're doomed, when more valid is the belief that we were better than a top six side, which is encouraging.
I wasn't sure so I just wanted to clarify what I meant by free hit.
For me not losing and avoiding injuries/bans were the top priorities for Wednesday, doing it with a good performance and then a win came after that. The games are coming thick and fast now, keeping as many players as possible available will be the biggest difference between the clubs near the bottom.
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 19, 2020, 03:29:02 PM
Sorry - I know you didn't say that; I was using it as an example to support what you say. There's a strange double standard that's saying becasue we didn't beat what looked like poor opposition we're doomed, when more valid is the belief that we were better than a top six side, which is encouraging.
I wasn't sure so I just wanted to clarify what I meant by free hit.
For me not losing and avoiding injuries/bans were the top priorities for Wednesday, doing it with a good performance and then a win came after that. The games are coming thick and fast now, keeping as many players as possible available will be the biggest difference between the clubs near the bottom.
I think it showed the whole thing is a farce and whatver happens between now and the end of the season is still going to be unfair on at least two clubs.
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 19, 2020, 03:38:03 PM
We need to win one of our next 3 anyway otherwise the task is too hard. If we can get a draw off Chelsea and then beat Newcastle and get 7 points from our last 4 that could well be enough.
Post by: CT on June 19, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 19, 2020, 03:57:11 PM
I’ve really missed not having to worry about “I hope Southampton are motivated for tonight”.Yeah, they seem to be on a one team mission to ruin our season.
Post by: Luke8 on June 19, 2020, 04:38:44 PM
It’s pretty hard at this stage, having not seen most of the teams play, to be singling out many games as more winnable than others.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 19, 2020, 07:28:19 PM
Post by: Ad@m on June 19, 2020, 11:35:50 PM
Well that's Norwich down. Two places left to fill.
Agreed. I think we need 12 points to stay up which would mean they need 17 from a possible 24.
Just not gonna happen.
Post by: Steve67 on June 20, 2020, 06:56:29 AM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 20, 2020, 09:00:20 AM
Post by: Ad@m on June 20, 2020, 06:07:28 PM
Post by: Legion on June 20, 2020, 07:33:52 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 20, 2020, 07:35:22 PM
Time to remove Brighton from the poll options?Not just yet, I reckon.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 20, 2020, 07:35:54 PM
Post by: Damo70 on June 20, 2020, 07:37:15 PM
Time to remove Brighton from the poll options?
Yes, purely in an attempt to jinx them ;)
Post by: Damo70 on June 20, 2020, 07:41:08 PM
Post by: Villan82 on June 20, 2020, 07:42:47 PM
Just seen on MOTD Live what Bournemouth's run in is like. It will be very tough for them.
Bournemouth and West Ham are the two teams in big trouble (with ourselves). I think a point tomorrow would be decent, something to build on.
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2020, 07:51:10 PM
What I'm struggling with is that Watford scrapped a draw with a late equaliser having looked pretty poor and it shows they're "up for it" we outplay Sheff U for most of the game, restrict them to 1 shot on goal and have their keeper universally named as man of the match but apparently we have no desire and are sleep-walking to relegation. I just want people to be consistent, the table shows that there's pretty much fuck all between the 4 teams you'd say were in the battle and yet they're all definitely going to get more points than us and we're fucked. We don't need a huge turn around and goals from everywhere to turn this around, a few less mistakes, slightly tighter in defence and that could easily get us a the extra point or 2 we need.
Post by: Des Little on June 20, 2020, 09:10:11 PM
Post by: curiousorange on June 20, 2020, 09:18:39 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 20, 2020, 09:26:09 PM
Post by: Legion on June 20, 2020, 09:28:24 PM
I can't see it being probable that it goes to the last day. Our results would have to tally so completely that it's massively unlikely.
I can. Both teams are poor and losing/drawing.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 20, 2020, 09:30:03 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 20, 2020, 09:32:10 PM
Plus we only have to be within three points of West Ham for it to come down to the last day, between us anyway, at least mathematically. There is always a decent chance that one or both will already be safe or down by then though, I suppose.I think that's right. Or perhaps within 2, depending on how many batterings they / we get, just to make sure goal difference doesn't fuck us.
Post by: Luke8 on June 20, 2020, 09:34:26 PM
I can't see it being probable that it goes to the last day. Our results would have to tally so completely that it's massively unlikely.
I can. Both teams are poor and losing/drawing.
Our results over the last twenty games are identical to both West Ham and Bournemouths so that would suggest that it’s quite possible.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 20, 2020, 09:35:13 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2020, 09:46:06 PM
That's why I said "at least mathematically". Even if we are three points behind with a goal difference worse by twenty, we could go there and win by ten... I mean we wouldn't, obviously, but technically it would still have gone down to the last day. Like we weren't completely safe when we went to Lambert's Norwich in the last game of the McLeish Error.
I can't see the goal difference changing massively so going there needing to win by 2 or 3 wouldn't be unthinkable.
Either way Bournemouth look really poor, West Ham look nearly as bad and Norwich look like they've accepted relegation. Us, Watford and Brighton look better prepared so far.
Post by: curiousorange on June 20, 2020, 09:50:37 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 20, 2020, 09:51:29 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 20, 2020, 09:52:31 PM
Post by: Legion on June 20, 2020, 09:57:03 PM
Post by: curiousorange on June 20, 2020, 10:03:04 PM
Post by: curiousorange on June 20, 2020, 10:10:48 PM
Apart from ourselves as we can build great things !
I think you're spot on here. Bournemouth have gone as far as they can go, like all South Coast clubs eventually do, and Watford will go in the next couple of seasons. West Ham are still mental. We stay up and we'll kick on.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on June 20, 2020, 10:37:24 PM
To be 17th with Newcastle to come would be amazing.
We can only be 16th or 19th tomorrow night. It would feel great being 16th, obviously.
Post by: Legion on June 20, 2020, 10:40:21 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 20, 2020, 10:41:19 PM
Post by: Risso on June 20, 2020, 10:43:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2020, 10:45:25 PM
Post by: Des Little on June 20, 2020, 10:46:04 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 20, 2020, 10:48:33 PM
We'll be cheering them on through half their games !
They have to play everyone of the bottom 5 outside of Norwich !
Post by: OzVilla on June 21, 2020, 01:12:46 AM
Post by: algy on June 21, 2020, 08:37:33 AM
There's 4 sides separated by less than 3 points, all averaging less than 1pt/match. Taking the highest of those (Watford - 28pts), if they average 1pt/game - more than they are at the moment - they'll be on 36pts.
That puts Villa needing 10pts from the last 9 games ... which I think it's perfectly achievable. Wins against Crystal Palace and Newcastle, and grinding it results in half of our other games, we should go in to that last game either safe, or just needing a draw.
Post by: Richard E on June 21, 2020, 09:11:08 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 21, 2020, 01:26:33 PM
It's up to villa and villa old boss Newcastle United Stevie Bruce.
We'll be cheering them on through half their games !
They have to play everyone of the bottom 5 outside of Norwich !
I've always liked Steve Bruce.
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 03:17:05 PM
I can't see it being probable that it goes to the last day. Our results would have to tally so completely that it's massively unlikely.
You'd like to think even with a poor end to the season we could at least win one game and draw a couple. After watching them yesterday and with the fixtures they have left I'd be surprised if West Ham and Bournemouth are over 35 points by the 37th game so as CD says we'd still have a chance if we were on 32 points although of course our GD is worst of the three unless West Ham and bournemouth get a couple of hammerings.
If we're long relegated before final day I really don't see what grounds DS could expect to continue into next season. We'd have gone down having won 3 games in 7 months so very similar to when we went down in 15/16.
Post by: Ad@m on June 21, 2020, 03:33:44 PM
Sadly, on the evidence of (edit) Wednesday, I'm not sure his strongest team is strong enough.
Post by: olaftab on June 21, 2020, 03:35:20 PM
Post by: Ad@m on June 21, 2020, 03:42:22 PM
What were they doing on Thursday night? ;)
Alright smart arse!
Post by: Steve67 on June 21, 2020, 03:48:39 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 21, 2020, 03:50:12 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 03:50:38 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 03:53:39 PM
We need to learn that skill for next given how useless we've been against 10 men this year.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 04:03:08 PM
They didn't have to do anything to win that, Edna gifts them the first, keeper's positioning was awful for the second and SU gave up.
It was still 0-0 at similar stage to when West Ham went down to 10 v us. We also had longer v 10 men v Arsenal (were also winning).
It's part of the naiveness at top level for me, didn't half drop loads of stupid points in August and September from winning positions. If we go down on GD to West Ham and Watford it's a crucial missed opportunity.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 04:10:43 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 04:12:46 PM
And if Newcastle aren't gifted the first who knows how the game goes. You can't comapre the 2 imo because that result was down to SU imploding not Newcastle suddenly performing.
I wasn't really comparing the two. For the record I was o.k with 0-0 as that's the sort of result you need to break negative mindset considering we were on awful losing run. Hopefully we can continue to build on it today even if it's another draw.
Just saying if we want to stay up and be more than just happy to finish 17th in future seasons we need to start winning regularly against ten minute as it's something we're not very good at doing.
Post by: Nastylee on June 21, 2020, 04:44:22 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 07:04:45 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 07:08:41 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 07:10:48 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 21, 2020, 07:30:42 PM
Newcastle's morale will be a fuck's sight better than ours on Wednesday which must be pretty close to rock bottom.
It will be bizarro world next week when we watch a Steve Bruce side have significantly more possession than the opponent.
Post by: TaxDodger on June 21, 2020, 09:12:45 PM
Newcastle's morale will be a fuck's sight better than ours on Wednesday which must be pretty close to rock bottom.
I dunno, they've got the win they need to sure of safety now, so maybe they'll stop giving a shit.. maybe..
Either way, I don't really think we're in much of a worse position than we were at the start of the weekend. We had the hardest fixture and lost a point on Watford, but didn't lose anything on West Ham or Bournemouth, the latter of which look fucked considering their run in.
Yeh, fuck it, I've convinced myself, we're staying up.
Post by: Ads on June 21, 2020, 09:14:45 PM
Post by: OzVilla on June 21, 2020, 11:35:24 PM
Post by: purpletrousers on June 21, 2020, 11:50:34 PM
TBH I never really thought Brighton were in any danger of going down, too presence at the back and up top to nick something and they just seem more battle hardened, same goes for Watford. Players like Dawson and Deeney with an old head like Pearson will see them fine. So it's 3 from 4 - Norwich, us, Bournemouth and West Ham. To think we've gifted Bournemouth 6 points and couldn't beat 10 man West Ham at home.Ach that's a bit too painful to be reminded.
Post by: eamonn on June 21, 2020, 11:54:39 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 22, 2020, 01:00:44 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 22, 2020, 05:34:27 AM
Bournemouth have a horrible run in, Newcastle and Southampton their most winnable games.
brighton have Norwich Sampton Burnley Newcastle But allready 32 points.
Watford have the easiest run in West Ham Burnley Sampton Norwich Arse Newcastle.
I think Norwich are gone, Brighton and Watford should be ok.
I don’t see Bournemouth getting out of the relegation Zone.
That leaves us and West Ham, we have a tougher run in and a worse goal dif and a point behind.
Our most winnable games Newcastle Arse Palace ? West Ham.
The best I can see is us going to the Taxpayer stadium needing a win.
Post by: ROBBO on June 22, 2020, 06:38:44 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 11:10:03 AM
West Ham 4pts
D L L W L L
Bournemouth 4pts
W L L D L L
Norwich 4pts
D L L W L L
Aston Villa 1pt
L L L D L
Post by: LeeB on June 22, 2020, 11:44:47 AM
Bournemouth are gone, looked a dreadful outfit even worse than us.
And they've beat us well, twice.
Post by: Smithy on June 22, 2020, 11:53:34 AM
Bournemouth are gone, looked a dreadful outfit even worse than us.
And they've beat us well, twice.
I can't speak for the away game, because I didn't see it live, but there is no way you can describe the 2-1 home defeat as them "beating us well". Chelsea beat us well. Bournemouth did not. We dominated the ball, created more chances, and barring a Heaton brain fart in the first five minutes, we definitely win that game.
Also, they've lost one of their best players in Ryan Fraser - so I think they're in bigger trouble even than us.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 22, 2020, 12:39:33 PM
We dominated the ball, created more chances, and barring a Heaton brain fart in the first five minutes, we definitely win that game.Come on, that's the same as saying if Sheff Utd's 'goal' had been given we'd definitely have lost that game.
Post by: LeeB on June 22, 2020, 04:11:25 PM
Bournemouth are gone, looked a dreadful outfit even worse than us.
And they've beat us well, twice.
I can't speak for the away game, because I didn't see it live, but there is no way you can describe the 2-1 home defeat as them "beating us well". Chelsea beat us well. Bournemouth did not. We dominated the ball, created more chances, and barring a Heaton brain fart in the first five minutes, we definitely win that game.
Also, they've lost one of their best players in Ryan Fraser - so I think they're in bigger trouble even than us.
I didn't see the home game to be fair, was on holiday, but they spent most of the game two up and we hardly battered the door down for an equaliser.
Away, they had 10 men for most of the game and still won.
And they're supposed to be shite.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 04:35:31 PM
Currently PPG would see us amass 32pts
West Ham Bournemouth and Norwich of course have are also below 1.
At this time we need to raise the level to above 1 and to around 1.74 ppg to avoid the R.
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 22, 2020, 05:07:10 PM
Villa need to double PPG now and end of season to get around 13pts.
Currently PPG would see us amass 32pts
West Ham Bournemouth and Norwich of course have are also below 1.
At this time we need to raise the level to above 1 and to around 1.74 ppg to avoid the R.
Err is all of that the same as saying we need four wins, blimey!
Post by: supertom on June 22, 2020, 05:16:25 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 22, 2020, 05:37:26 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 22, 2020, 05:39:36 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 22, 2020, 05:44:10 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 22, 2020, 05:50:14 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 08:14:17 PM
I think this could be a very low points required to stay up 35 or 36 which still means we need to win 3 games.
That's a standard total not a low total.
Premier league history has shown that since the league was cut to 20 teams in 1995/96, the average points required to avoid the drop has been much lower than 40.
I've added last seasons points tally to include
the past 24 seasons, the 18th-placed team, the highest to go down, have averaged 35.5 points
Looking at the last 3 seasons without our beloved club in the premier league the points needed to be safe were
2018/19 35 pts
2017/18 34pts
2016/17 35pts
In 2015/16 Villa achieved 17pts and we finished 20th. We would have survived if we made 38pts
2014/15 finished 17th with 38pts .
And 36pts would have seen us safe
Hull relegated with 35 pts
And in fact it's not since 2002/3 season that over 40 pts was needed . That season 43 points needed to stay in league.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 08:15:38 PM
To be safe I’m sure we will need 13 points. Just not going to happen. Even if we managed 8 I don’t think 34 keeps you up. We need 38/3936 /37 could but the goal difference is a concern
Post by: Ad@m on June 22, 2020, 09:08:14 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 22, 2020, 09:27:30 PM
It's still 4 wins. From 8 games. If anyone can genuinely see that happening I'll have whatever they're having...3 wins 35 points
Post by: gpbarr on June 22, 2020, 09:45:29 PM
It's still 4 wins. From 8 games. If anyone can genuinely see that happening I'll have whatever they're having...3 wins 35 points
We will be lucky to get 3 points let alone 3 wins. We are well and truly cooked. Time to plan for the a championship I’m afraid
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 10:08:59 PM
4 draws - 4pts Wolves , Arsenal , Everton , West Ham
2 defeats - Liverpool , Man Utd
10pts = 36pts
Post by: Steve67 on June 22, 2020, 10:24:18 PM
It's still 4 wins. From 8 games. If anyone can genuinely see that happening I'll have whatever they're having...3 wins 35 points
Probably gets us third from bottom. Even 4 wins may not be enough.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 10:25:58 PM
Post by: Tayls_7 on June 22, 2020, 10:48:11 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 22, 2020, 11:02:32 PM
Will we cobble together 3 more points than Watford and 2 more points than Wet Spam in the remaining games? It doesn't look promising if we don't start showing some mettle.
We don't necessarily need to finish above both of them.
Post by: eamonn on June 22, 2020, 11:11:40 PM
2 wins 6pts - Newcastle and Palace.
4 draws - 4pts Wolves , Arsenal , Everton , West Ham
2 defeats - Liverpool , Man Utd
10pts = 36pts
When you put it like that, piece of piss!
I'm pissed off that with most fixtures we get less recovery time than the opposition. Palace will have two extra days to rest and prepare before we play them and they are bloody difficult to score against. We'll still be knackered from chasing shadows against ManUre in the previous game.
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 22, 2020, 11:38:31 PM
West Ham have Spurs away who have all their attackers back and Bournemouth are at Wolves so decent chance both will lose. Would be out of bottom 3 if we can win and we also on first at weekend with the early kick off v Wolves.
If we can't get up to at least 17th by Saturday afternoon I really can't see how we're going to do it in the remaining fixtures. If anything we'll get further adrift. It's incredible we're still just 1 point off 17th considering we've lost 11 of our last 16 league games.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 11:43:48 PM
11 crosses by Azpilicueta
Chelsea hammered us on that left side.
I don't want to think what Adama and Matt Doherty are gonna do.
Post by: David_Nab on June 22, 2020, 11:58:30 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 23, 2020, 12:10:32 AM
Post by: Tayls_7 on June 23, 2020, 12:21:49 AM
Will we cobble together 3 more points than Watford and 2 more points than Wet Spam in the remaining games? It doesn't look promising if we don't start showing some mettle.
We don't necessarily need to finish above both of them.
Apologies. I used 'and' instead of 'or'.
Post by: gpbarr on June 23, 2020, 12:23:40 AM
The difference in GD isn't as bad as I thought it was (between us and Bournemouth/West Ham). We can actually do this without miracles.
One point from the last 18. We need a minimum 10 (I am being very generous) from the next 24.
That my friend would count as a miracle!
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 23, 2020, 12:43:39 AM
The difference in GD isn't as bad as I thought it was (between us and Bournemouth/West Ham). We can actually do this without miracles.
One point from the last 18. We need a minimum 10 (I am being very generous) from the next 24.
That my friend would count as a miracle!
I can't imagine that the other two's record is much better.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 23, 2020, 01:50:05 AM
West Ham have 5 points from their last 10 league games
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 23, 2020, 06:54:55 AM
Bournemouth 4 points from last 6 games, thanks to beating usBournemouth have an awful run in.
West Ham have 5 points from their last 10 league games
West Ham has the easiest out of the the 3 of us.
It could be a very weird final game at an empty Tax payer stadium.
That’s if we get enough points to stay in touch.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on June 23, 2020, 08:07:38 AM
Watford 38 points
West Ham 36
Bournemouth 35
Villa 35
So, us and Bournemouth relegated. However, I predicted a draw in our final game at West Ham so if we’d won that, we’d be safe. We are on course for a final day, winner takes all shootout.
Post by: Villan82 on June 23, 2020, 09:17:41 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 23, 2020, 09:19:10 AM
If Bowen makes the difference I'll just want to punch Suso repeatedly.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 23, 2020, 11:04:26 AM
Attack wise there isn't much threat at all.
Snodgrass has been decent for them and Lanzini is a player when he's not injured or diving around. But snoddy is injured now. And apart from those 2 and a inconsistent Haller and Injury prone Yarmolenko their isn't much else.
Declan Rice will move on whatever happens but he doesn't offer any attack so they must worry where goals will come from. Antonio is a brute , a trier but lacks any quality.
It won't surprise me if they ship 3+ goals v spurs as they really don't have any togetherness. Midfield will be overrun and Son and Moura if they start should take advantage
Worryingly I thought the same on team spirit with Villa. Due to lockdown the players have to build up a team spirit again as both squads are a mishmash of individuals. West ham even worse than ourselves
I don't see many outstanding players at West Ham Felipe Anderson hasn't been bothered for a long while and I don't think he'll start trying in a relegation battle.
And despite having some winnable fixtures their lack of any real abilities to won matches and poor manager could well mean they fall behind us if we manage a few points.
They are fortunate it's behind closed door to rest of season as both on the road and at home they would struggle with the crowds
Really hope they go down
Post by: chrisw1 on June 23, 2020, 11:52:44 AM
They are struggling and whether they can make it click remains to be seen, but I think they have a better chance than us.
Post by: Drummond on June 23, 2020, 12:05:17 PM
Like I said theyve been shit, but in Antonio, Fornals, Anderson, Bowen, Lanzini, Yarmalenko, Wilshere, Rice & Fabianski I think they have a lot more quality to call on than we do. I'd also take their fullbacks over ours.
They are struggling and whether they can make it click remains to be seen, but I think they have a better chance than us.
I agree, but only because they are above us in the table, just.
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 23, 2020, 01:40:01 PM
Watford will certainly be excited to play Burnley who looked a shambles tonight and are short of players due to issues with contracts ..
Yep big chance for them. We'd be happy playing Burnley in the run in.
I'd be up for Watford pulling well clear if it meant they went to West Ham and won near end of the season.
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 23, 2020, 01:43:21 PM
What has pissed me off about this season is the defeats that should have been draws. Every damn point is so important in our position. Those early season games where we were naive have really cost us.
If we'd held on in injury time v Spurs and Liverpool we'd be out of the bottom 3 now. Shows the small margins.
Can't help feeling we wasted too much of the early part of the season when we were still on a high after promotion. After the euphoria of beating Everton on that friday night, we were robbed of a point at Palace, had 30 minutes to score v 10 men West Ham, lead twice at Arsenal (also v 10 men) and lead twice at home to Burnley.
Easily another 6-7 points we should've got from that period and that would've put us on 32 points now so we'd have had a buffer over 17th.
Post by: Big Ming on June 23, 2020, 02:08:12 PM
Not because we are in a much worse position than the others, but because we are such a poor team, poorly managed with poor tactics. The stats don't lie.
If we survive somehow, it will be a bonus, but I'm thinking about how we will bounce back stronger with the Jack transfer money and the parachute cash under new management.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 23, 2020, 02:23:33 PM
It won't surprise me if they ship 3+ goals v spurs as they really don't have any togetherness. Midfield will be overrun and Son and Moura if they start should take advantage
We could do with them and others shipping lots of goals to cancel out our poor goal difference. Right now I can see us being relegated on goal difference, it's that tight down there.
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 23, 2020, 04:52:33 PM
Like I said theyve been shit, but in Antonio, Fornals, Anderson, Bowen, Lanzini, Yarmalenko, Wilshere, Rice & Fabianski I think they have a lot more quality to call on than we do. I'd also take their fullbacks over ours.I have been surprised how poor they look, in the games I have watched they seem to play ok and then concede and look all over the place.
They are struggling and whether they can make it click remains to be seen, but I think they have a better chance than us.
I agree they have more individual talent and an easier run in. I think they will survive at our expense.
Post by: paul_e on June 24, 2020, 12:18:53 AM
Like I said theyve been shit, but in Antonio, Fornals, Anderson, Bowen, Lanzini, Yarmalenko, Wilshere, Rice & Fabianski I think they have a lot more quality to call on than we do. I'd also take their fullbacks over ours.
They are struggling and whether they can make it click remains to be seen, but I think they have a better chance than us.
Off the bat I'd say Grealish, Mings and McGinn are better than any of those. AEG and Trez aren't great players but both have moments of quality that are on a par with Antonio, Lanzini and Yarmalenko who are just as inconsistent. Aside from that Samatta has shown he's dangerous if we can find him in the box and Luiz and Hourihane both have it in them to score a screamer from nothing as well. I honestly think that anyone who thinks they've got a better squad is suffering from watching us all the time and only seeing West Ham on highlights. The same is true for Bournemouth as well, both are very poor sides.
I reckon the 2 that go down will end up with about 32 and 34/35 points, I just don't see all 3 of us getting the 3-4 wins required to make 37-38 points the target. I don't think Watford are clear either, Deeney and Deulofeu have carried them just as much as Jack and John have carried us.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 24, 2020, 10:27:46 PM
2 wins 6pts - Newcastle and Palace.
4 draws - 4pts Wolves , Arsenal , Everton , West Ham
2 defeats - Liverpool , Man Utd
10pts = 36pts
Have to revise that !
3 wins - Palace ,Everton , West Ham
2- draws Wolves Arsenal
2- defeats Liverpool and Man Utd
11pts .
😄
Post by: Richard E on June 25, 2020, 08:44:20 AM
Glass Half Full - we've made up ground on the teams immediately above us.
Glass Half Empty - we probably need at least 3 more wins or at minimum 2 wins and 2 draws and I just don't see where this upsurge in form is going to come from.
Post by: brontebilly on June 25, 2020, 10:15:48 AM
Post by: itbrvilla on June 25, 2020, 10:18:14 AM
I'd feel a hell of a lot more confident about us winning a few games if some of these matches were being played in front of a packed Villa Park.Especially after the inevitable batterings we'll likely be on the receiving end of next week.
Glass Half Full - we've made up ground on the teams immediately above us.
Glass Half Empty - we probably need at least 3 more wins or at minimum 2 wins and 2 draws and I just don't see where this upsurge in form is going to come from.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 25, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Post by: Luke8 on June 25, 2020, 11:34:46 AM
We've missed so many opportunities over the last 9 games it's ridiculous. Brighton, Bounrmouth, Southampton, a way below par Sheffield and Newcastle. Three points from those 5 games is why we'll go down.
That’s true. And there are other examples from earlier in the season (Burnley at home etc.) but our record against the ‘other 14’ team is actually the best of the bottom six.
It’s just as much the fact we somehow managed to take nothing from decent positions against Arsenal, Tottenham and Liverpool. All the other teams have nicked a result here or there.
Post by: john e on June 25, 2020, 12:32:00 PM
and always thought they were a bit over the top, we cant be that bad i think, there's always a chance of something here or there
but for the first time i'm saying - i cant see where the next win is coming from
the Newcastle game was our best chance of 3 points out of all our remaining fixtures and we screwed it up
i think i was more disappointed with that result than the Chelsea one, the Chelsea performance was embarrassing but its what iv'e come to expect against a so called top 6 team
we've taken 1 point so far against those 6 which is a complete joke, absolute bottle jobs
we needed that win against Newcastle
its no use looking at the league and seeing we are a bit closer to the other teams and thinking that's a positive its just delusional
if Norwich are down and Bournmouth are the other candidates we can hopefully finish above then that leaves us West Ham and Watford scrapping to not be the other team relegated
West Ham have the easiest run in by far, they play Burnley (who have given up) Newcastle ( nothing to play for) Watford and then Norwich who are nearly already down
i reckon there's a minimum of 6 points but probably more from them games for them the jammy bastards
so although the league looks close its not great looking at the fixtures and realising we cant buy a win against bad teams never mind the next 3 which are Wolves, Liverpool Man Utd if we get 1 point from that lot we'll be lucky the way we are playing
unfortunately i cant see a way out, especially with Smiths dismal teams and tactics
i like him but he's not been able to step up and is definitely out of his depth in this league,
with no learning from mistakes or improvement likely which is the really damming statement
i would snap your hand off right now for a must Win at West Ham to stay up decider
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 25, 2020, 12:42:40 PM
We only get out of this if we pull off some astonishing results And or West Ham completely fuck up against some really poor and disinterested opposition.
Post by: Villan82 on June 25, 2020, 12:45:21 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 25, 2020, 01:01:31 PM
Post by: eamonn on June 25, 2020, 01:32:19 PM
The worry is that the next three games yield no points and a total collapse in confidence. I'd fancy us to pick up a win or two if the fixtures were swapped and instead of Wolves/Pool/Ure, our next three games were Palace/Everton/Arsenal.
Post by: TaxDodger on June 25, 2020, 01:38:20 PM
We've shown we can hurt the top teams - we've lead against literally all of the top 7 at some point this season (I realise Wolves doesn't really count as it was nothing like their first team), we just need to somehow find a way to beat them. Ourselves, Bournemouth and Norwich certainly look like the three most likely to drop, but it's not all doom and gloom yet.
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 25, 2020, 04:42:08 PM
And be pretty confident of staying up if they had ours.
Still though even just 5 points up to end of Arsenal game and I'd be surprised if we didn't take things to the last day where we've seen time and again anything can happen.
We have still picked up two points since restart which is better than nothing so with same ratio I don't think 5 points is out of the question.
Post by: Steve67 on June 25, 2020, 07:44:29 PM
Post by: Luke8 on June 25, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
We are level with the teams above us because we managed to score 2 points from 9 against the easier teams in our fixture list. Which is not good enough. I include Chelsea because they did not put out their very best side imo and were there for the taking. If we are still on a par with Bournemouth, Watford and West Ham after the next three games, then, then, we have a chance of staying up. The next 3 are massive. Saying that, so were the last three, and the three before that.
Chelsea have named near enough the same team tonight, so I guess Lampard feels that it is his best team.
Ans while our results haven’t been great, they ha want been that bad. At the same time we’ve seen other teams around us not get any points from what you’d consider ‘easier’ fixtures against Palace and Burnley.
Post by: Steve67 on June 25, 2020, 08:06:17 PM
We are level with the teams above us because we managed to score 2 points from 9 against the easier teams in our fixture list. Which is not good enough. I include Chelsea because they did not put out their very best side imo and were there for the taking. If we are still on a par with Bournemouth, Watford and West Ham after the next three games, then, then, we have a chance of staying up. The next 3 are massive. Saying that, so were the last three, and the three before that.
Chelsea have named near enough the same team tonight, so I guess Lampard feels that it is his best team.
Ans while our results haven’t been great, they ha want been that bad. At the same time we’ve seen other teams around us not get any points from what you’d consider ‘easier’ fixtures against Palace and Burnley.
You have a hot line to Frank and know his thinking? I'm impressed. I wonder if he will let us have Tammy and Kovacic in that case then! Our results have been absolute shite. We failed to win a single game, two of them at home. Chelsea are decent, but we bottled it. 2 points from 9 is crap.
Post by: Luke8 on June 25, 2020, 08:13:10 PM
We are level with the teams above us because we managed to score 2 points from 9 against the easier teams in our fixture list. Which is not good enough. I include Chelsea because they did not put out their very best side imo and were there for the taking. If we are still on a par with Bournemouth, Watford and West Ham after the next three games, then, then, we have a chance of staying up. The next 3 are massive. Saying that, so were the last three, and the three before that.
Chelsea have named near enough the same team tonight, so I guess Lampard feels that it is his best team.
Ans while our results haven’t been great, they ha want been that bad. At the same time we’ve seen other teams around us not get any points from what you’d consider ‘easier’ fixtures against Palace and Burnley.
You have a hot line to Frank and know his thinking? I'm impressed. I wonder if he will let us have Tammy and Kovacic in that case then! Our results have been absolute shite. We failed to win a single game, two of them at home. Chelsea are decent, but we bottled it. 2 points from 9 is crap.
I just reckon by virtue of picking almost the same team tonight, against a much better team, with Champions League qualification to play for he probably feels it’s his best team. Would be a pretty strange tactic to play a weaker team two games in a row given the circumstances.
Also, Kovacic played against us so clearly wasn’t a bad team!
I wasn’t particularly enamoured with our performance against them but Chelsea are miles better than us at the moment. And, to be honest, that doesn’t really change whether you call that their strongest team or not.
Post by: Steve67 on June 25, 2020, 08:21:47 PM
Post by: Luke8 on June 25, 2020, 08:38:16 PM
Luke, this isn't about Chelsea. I don't care about them. This is about us playing three far easier games than the next three games and picking a whole 2 points. Also, the other teams in the relegation mix have only played 2 games, we've had the extra game, so to be level with them so far ain't that great really. I appreciate this wasn't your point my friend.
My point was just, and it’s not massively important, but I don’t think you can call he game against Chelsea any easier than the Wolves or Man United fixtures personally.
The fact that we have played three games since the restart doesn’t make too much different really - we have all played the same over the season - and we are one of four fairly bad teams within a point of each other.
I agree that we really should have taken more points from the Sheffield United and Newcastle games. As we have seen with Watford-Burnley and Bournemouth-Palace it isn’t as easy as just winning your ‘easier’ fixtures though.
Anyway, it’s hardly the biggest issue. Let’s just hope for some improved performances over the next three games and maybe we will pick up some unexpected points!
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 09:55:09 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 26, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
To state the obvious, so yes why am I then, we need a crazy, didn’t see that coming result.Possibly at Anfield, after the media has gone OTT about the first "home" game of the Covid 19 Champions.
That really would be funny! ;) ;D
Post by: Drummond on June 26, 2020, 11:19:48 AM
Luke, this isn't about Chelsea. I don't care about them. This is about us playing three far easier games than the next three games and picking a whole 2 points. Also, the other teams in the relegation mix have only played 2 games, we've had the extra game, so to be level with them so far ain't that great really. I appreciate this wasn't your point my friend.
You named Chelsea in your original post. You stated it was an easier game. They've just beaten Man City, with pretty much the team that beat us.
We may only have got 2 points, but we're better off against the teams around us than we were. All we need to do is gain 1 more point on them to be fine. We play West Ham and that leaves Bournemouth.
We all know we aren't brilliant, but we're still in with a chance, and frankly anything can happen. We took the lead against Chelsea for starters!
Post by: sid1964 on June 26, 2020, 11:24:31 AM
Post by: Villan82 on June 26, 2020, 12:24:35 PM
Whoever loses the Watford v West Ham game will be screwed in my opinion & a point won't be much good to either. If Norwich could also take a point off one of them that would be great.
We have to keep the faith.
Post by: Risso on June 26, 2020, 12:31:56 PM
So looking at the remaining fixtures, Bournemouth look to have a pretty tough run in. Watford and West Ham have to play each other and Norwich while we of course play West Ham on the last day.
Whoever loses the Watford v West Ham game will be screwed in my opinion & a point won't be much good to either. If Norwich could also take a point off one of them that would be great.
We have to keep the faith.
I'd have more faith if we showed any intent that we actually wanted to win a game and had the ability to do that. The last time I can recall us "having a go" was the Spurs game at home.
Post by: OCD on June 26, 2020, 12:47:59 PM
Post by: placeforparks on June 26, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/ZGtqhMy/table.png)
Post by: Drummond on June 26, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
So looking at the remaining fixtures, Bournemouth look to have a pretty tough run in. Watford and West Ham have to play each other and Norwich while we of course play West Ham on the last day.
Whoever loses the Watford v West Ham game will be screwed in my opinion & a point won't be much good to either. If Norwich could also take a point off one of them that would be great.
We have to keep the faith.
I'd have more faith if we showed any intent that we actually wanted to win a game and had the ability to do that. The last time I can recall us "having a go" was the Spurs game at home.
I think that's the one area that has disappointed me, we seem to lack a mentality to just go for it. Whether we've the personnel is another question of course but you'd think we should still be able to lump it forwards, and take a gamble.
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
Twat.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 27, 2020, 08:45:32 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 27, 2020, 09:23:54 PM
Football's return will lift morale of the country someone once said.
Twat.
It was massively irresponsible, from the perspective of mental health, to bring back football before the pubs were open so I can at least drown my sorrows at The Bartons. The ******.
Post by: postal on June 27, 2020, 11:08:38 PM
i hope i'm wrong, but here's my prediction.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZGtqhMy/table.png)
I cant see WHam getting a win, let alone 3.
B‘Mouth will lose at least one of Spurs, LCity and Everton
Though I think you are spot on for Villa, and WHam will park the bus against us.
But good to have a prediction.
I have B'Mouth getting a win against S'Ton, and draws against Newcastle & Everton,
WHam 4 draws against Newcastle, Burnley, Norwich & Watford
US, win against Palace & Wham ( yes I've started drinking again) and draw against Everton.
So we might be safe, but not sure my predictions are spot on ::)
Post by: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 01:18:33 AM
Southampton too v Watford
Liverpool next game need to hope they put all Thier efforts into beating City just for bragging rights then stick the kids / reserves out against us ..though the kids they had on against Palace looked pretty good..
Post by: OzVilla on June 28, 2020, 01:24:59 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2020, 07:36:25 AM
The bookies don’t often lose money and they have Norwich BMouth and us down.
Does any one still believe we are staying up, if so get your bets on.
Post by: Des Little on June 28, 2020, 08:13:55 AM
Post by: Hillbilly on June 28, 2020, 10:35:41 AM
Post by: levico on June 28, 2020, 12:30:59 PM
Post by: Villafirst on June 28, 2020, 11:51:19 PM
Post by: gpbarr on June 29, 2020, 12:12:15 AM
4 points - 31 in total. Nowhere near enough - we are getting what the management and squad deserve for the drivel they have served up.
It’s time to turn our attention to rebuild number 7!!
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 29, 2020, 07:10:39 AM
Post by: eamonn on June 29, 2020, 09:34:09 AM
Post by: Des Little on June 29, 2020, 09:53:16 AM
We will be lucky to get to the West Ham game with something to play for.
Agreed. I'd take that if offered right now.
Post by: Ads on June 29, 2020, 09:56:50 AM
The lack of crowds shows what a huge leveller fans can be for the weaker sides. Yes we are all poor, but 3 points from the bottom 5 so far and we account for 2 of them.
Post by: Luke8 on June 29, 2020, 11:17:27 AM
The way it is at the moment we will probably be relegated without taking anymore points, but go down on goal difference.
Everyone else is losing by more goals that us, so maybe that’s the plan behind tightening up the defence - we can 0-1 our way to safety!
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 29, 2020, 11:36:19 AM
Just fucking give it a go
Post by: Des Little on June 29, 2020, 11:53:03 AM
Kids, ask your Dad...
Post by: Mister E on June 29, 2020, 12:08:19 PM
Post by: eamonn on June 29, 2020, 12:13:37 PM
The way it is at the moment we will probably be relegated without taking anymore points, but go down on goal difference.
The lack of crowds shows what a huge leveller fans can be for the weaker sides. Yes we are all poor, but 3 points from the bottom 5 so far and we account for 2 of them.
You used to be so optimistic :(
Post by: Clampy on June 29, 2020, 12:18:02 PM
love lies bleeding on the floor
Blimey, are people trying to outdo each other to sound as depressed as possible? I thought 'hello darkness, my old friend' earlier was over the top and the post about lifeless carcasses. It's all a bit much.
Post by: Ads on June 29, 2020, 12:29:48 PM
So if we are to survive, we probably need to learn how tocrawl on our hands and knees, rather than amble or even shuffle. So that's a positive.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 12:35:45 PM
The good thing is that the race to stay up is a bit like that scene in Wolf of Wall Street where Di Caprio's character is off his tits on Quaaludes, crawling back to his Lambo, unable to walk or talk. That's us, Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford.
So if we are to survive, we probably need to learn how tocrawl on our hands and knees, rather than amble or even shuffle. So that's a positive.
I thought of that scene when I remembered being pushed upstairs to bed one night.
Post by: BoVillan esq on June 29, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
Post by: eamonn on June 29, 2020, 01:11:56 PM
The good thing is that the race to stay up is a bit like that scene in Wolf of Wall Street where Di Caprio's character is off his tits on Quaaludes, crawling back to his Lambo, unable to walk or talk. That's us, Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford.
So if we are to survive, we probably need to learn how tocrawl on our hands and knees, rather than amble or even shuffle. So that's a positive.
I thought Blose were the knuckle-draggers, not us.
Post by: Risso on June 29, 2020, 01:15:09 PM
The good thing is that the race to stay up is a bit like that scene in Wolf of Wall Street where Di Caprio's character is off his tits on Quaaludes, crawling back to his Lambo, unable to walk or talk. That's us, Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford.
So if we are to survive, we probably need to learn how tocrawl on our hands and knees, rather than amble or even shuffle. So that's a positive.
I don't think that's a very good analogy. We're sprinting like Usain Bolt back to the clapped out, T reg Marina that is the Championship.
Post by: Richard E on June 29, 2020, 09:03:15 PM
Post by: Clampy on June 29, 2020, 09:22:52 PM
At the moment that outrageous decision at Selhurst Park is the difference between us being in the relegation zone and being above it.
And if we hadnt scored that last minute goal against Brighton at home, that perfectly good goal we had disallowed in the first half would have made us even worse off.
Post by: AVH87 on June 29, 2020, 09:49:40 PM
At the moment that outrageous decision at Selhurst Park is the difference between us being in the relegation zone and being above it.
Surely the luck against Sheff U levelled that out?
Post by: exigo on June 29, 2020, 09:57:01 PM
At the moment that outrageous decision at Selhurst Park is the difference between us being in the relegation zone and being above it.
Surely the luck against Sheff U levelled that out?
That Arsenal handball that wasn't given will piss me off if it's the difference between dropping or not. I was right in line with it. So blatant.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 29, 2020, 10:02:52 PM
At the moment that outrageous decision at Selhurst Park is the difference between us being in the relegation zone and being above it.
Surely the luck against Sheff U levelled that out?
That Arsenal handball that wasn't given will piss me off if it's the difference between dropping or not. I was right in line with it. So blatant.
Of all the VAR controversies, that's the biggie. I don't know how anybody could look at that in real time or replay and not think it was handball.
Post by: Steve67 on June 29, 2020, 10:59:44 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:30:49 PM
I reckon that Liverpool will put out a really strong side against Man City on Thursday because they won't want to lose to their closest rivals and this will take a lot out of them. Therefore, against Villa, they will put out a mixture. We will see of course but we may have a sniff yet.
I have a weird feeling that they'll do us a favour. Whether we could capitalise if they did is another question.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 29, 2020, 11:35:55 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:38:11 PM
I think they will rest players against Man City. Klopp won't want to give them the possible psychological boost of beating their proper team. I think they'll play a few kids against us, too. Think we have more chance at Liverpool than we do at home to Man U the week after.
Yep, there's a minor chance that we'll catch Liverpool at a good time. Man Utd will batter us.
Post by: Des Little on June 29, 2020, 11:41:58 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 30, 2020, 05:41:08 AM
Post by: Steve67 on June 30, 2020, 06:45:00 AM
We could be out of touch by the time we play our next easy game.
And we may have to gain points from all four games left, can anyone really see us doing that? Stealing points in our next two games may be crucial.
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 30, 2020, 07:40:49 AM
We could be out of touch by the time we play our next easy game.
Alternatively we might not be
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
We could be out of touch by the time we play our next easy game.Home v Wigan, November 2020.
Post by: algy on June 30, 2020, 07:56:34 AM
The way it is at the moment we will probably be relegated without taking anymore points, but go down on goal difference.This is my feelings. Villa might be bad, but at the moment the other 4 are even worse. It's and Brighton are the only sides with any momentum whatsoever.
The lack of crowds shows what a huge leveller fans can be for the weaker sides. Yes we are all poor, but 3 points from the bottom 5 so far and we account for 2 of them.
Post by: Steve67 on June 30, 2020, 08:04:01 AM
A freaky result here and there yet to come, I just hope that we are the team to do it!
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2020, 08:07:10 AM
Post by: AVH87 on June 30, 2020, 09:57:57 AM
Interesting that Brighton have only lost one of their last seven games, but haven't really gone anywhere, they are still only a couple of points above the relegation zone and their form may dip again. I doubt it, but they could become involved again.
Brighton are 6 points clear of the bottom 3, with a superior goal difference and a game in hand on some of the teams around them, I think they'll be feeling very confident about getting another 4-5 points from their last 7 games to guarantee safety.
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 30, 2020, 10:00:45 AM
They might have enough allreadyInteresting that Brighton have only lost one of their last seven games, but haven't really gone anywhere, they are still only a couple of points above the relegation zone and their form may dip again. I doubt it, but they could become involved again.
Brighton are 6 points clear of the bottom 3, with a superior goal difference and a game in hand on some of the teams around them, I think they'll be feeling very confident about getting another 4-5 points from their last 7 games to guarantee safety.
Post by: mallo on June 30, 2020, 10:40:51 AM
Post by: Clampy on June 30, 2020, 10:48:29 AM
We could be out of touch by the time we play our next easy game.
Alternatively we might not be
That's not how it works, please remain negative.
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 30, 2020, 10:55:56 AM
We could be out of touch by the time we play our next easy game.
Alternatively we might not be
That's not how it works, please remain negative.
Sorry momentary blip 😂
Post by: Des Little on June 30, 2020, 11:51:44 AM
I think 5 points will be enough - all the teams in the mire are dreadful. It's those that get the rub of the green and can keep a clean sheet will be the survivors. Oh, and actually have some bottle.
I make us having a grand total of none of the three factors that you highlight there
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 30, 2020, 12:55:14 PM
I think 5 points will be enough - all the teams in the mire are dreadful. It's those that get the rub of the green and can keep a clean sheet will be the survivors. Oh, and actually have some bottle.
I make us having a grand total of none of the three factors that you highlight there
Rub of the green - Sheff U
Clean sheet - again, Sheff U
Bottle - I've seen nothing to suggest a lack of it, unless the definition of 'bottle' is tear-arsing around the pitch hacking down anything in an opposition shirt.
My apologies for the positivity.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 01:09:24 PM
Rub of the green - Sheff UI think bottle really means energy, urgency, fighting to the last and to use your word positivity. There isn't much positivity on here, for obvious reasons, but there's more than there is on the pitch.
Clean sheet - again, Sheff U
Bottle - I've seen nothing to suggest a lack of it, unless the definition of 'bottle' is tear-arsing around the pitch hacking down anything in an opposition shirt.
Post by: Des Little on June 30, 2020, 01:26:16 PM
I'm all for positivity, but I'm also all for realism and not ignoring the fact that we are where we are because we haven't shown that we have what it takes to survive.
No one will be more happy than me if we buck these trends, I'm just not as confident as you are that we will. I hope I'm wrong.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 30, 2020, 01:34:58 PM
Post by: eamonn on June 30, 2020, 05:47:33 PM
Moyesy and Howe were full of fighting talk in their pressers today. They both think their teams can win all their remaining games !
Conversely, I'm half-expecting Dean to give a clenched fist to the director's box à la McLeish if we manage a draw against Crystal Palace.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 30, 2020, 06:05:10 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 07:35:18 PM
I'll admit that who's 'the form side' is a pretty low bar. As for Moyes and Howe, ooooooooh, scary, I won't be filling me keks just yet.Whatever disparaging things we may say about Bournemouth and West Ham and their managers I can guarantee they're saying exactly the same things about us. I doubt West Ham are shitting themselves about being at home to us on the final day.
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 30, 2020, 07:39:54 PM
I'll admit that who's 'the form side' is a pretty low bar. As for Moyes and Howe, ooooooooh, scary, I won't be filling me keks just yet.Whatever disparaging things we may say about Bournemouth and West Ham and their managers I can guarantee they're saying exactly the same things about us. I doubt West Ham are shitting themselves about being at home to us on the final day.
If it’s still winner takes by that game they will be shitting themselves about playing us
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 07:41:09 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 30, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 30, 2020, 07:56:12 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 30, 2020, 08:25:42 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 30, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
1/ that probably says a lot about the quality.
2/ it bodes well for them knowing each other more.
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 30, 2020, 09:20:28 PM
Even if we do go down, it won't be a rebuilding job again. We'll need a couple of additions, granted but we won't lose many of the squad we have.
1/ that probably says a lot about the quality.
2/ it bodes well for them knowing each other more.
What the quality of our team is Championship quality? Yes I think we have seen that
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 30, 2020, 09:24:19 PM
And we will lose the 3 best players that got us up, SJM Mings Jack.Even if we do go down, it won't be a rebuilding job again. We'll need a couple of additions, granted but we won't lose many of the squad we have.
1/ that probably says a lot about the quality.
2/ it bodes well for them knowing each other more.
What the quality of our team is Championship quality? Yes I think we have seen that
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 09:26:00 PM
Form side, I like it!
Moyesy and Howe were full of fighting talk in their pressers today. They both think their teams can win all their remaining games !
Conversely, I'm half-expecting Dean to give a clenched fist to the director's box à la McLeish if we manage a draw against Crystal Palace.
If Dean said it, you wouldn't be able to move on here for "Don't tell me show me" comments.
Post by: eamonn on June 30, 2020, 09:30:38 PM
I still think Brighton are there to be dragged-in. They have a buffer sure, thanks to fcuking Arsenal, but their fixture list is even worse than ours. I have doubts that they'll win another game this season, I even fancy Norwich to at least take a point off them.
Post by: ez on June 30, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 30, 2020, 09:39:18 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 01, 2020, 01:23:45 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 01, 2020, 01:44:05 PM
Brighton's biggest saving point at the moment is that they'd need three of the clubs now below them all to better their remaining results by seven points to take them down. That's going to take some turnaround from how pish they are now.
Think Brighton were safe from minute they scored that winner v Arsenal. They can pick up points from likes of Norwich and newcastle.
Thinking we can finish above a team on 33 points is wishful thinking, would rather concentrate on the ones on same points as us and Watford on 28.
Post by: Des Little on July 01, 2020, 02:00:07 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 01, 2020, 06:08:34 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 01, 2020, 06:11:21 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 01, 2020, 06:37:50 PM
Still looks an ask to finish above West Ham or Watford though.
Post by: aj2k77 on July 01, 2020, 06:43:01 PM
Come on Newcastle, another 3 and we move up a place!
One more isn't it and we go above them on goals scored? West Ham to lose 5-0 and we're out of the zone.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 01, 2020, 07:17:55 PM
Post by: Ad@m on July 01, 2020, 07:27:05 PM
Bournemouth will win tonight. Nailed on.
This aged well! 😉
Post by: walsall villain on July 01, 2020, 07:30:11 PM
I was fully expecting they would tooBournemouth will win tonight. Nailed on.
This aged well! 😉
Post by: CT on July 01, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
I was fully expecting they would tooBournemouth will win tonight. Nailed on.
This aged well! 😉
To be fair, I thought Bournemouth would win as well. Now they’re four down.
Can’t believe we gave them six points this season.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 07:51:49 PM
Post by: Des Little on July 01, 2020, 07:58:05 PM
I was fully expecting they would tooBournemouth will win tonight. Nailed on.
This aged well! 😉
To be fair, I thought Bournemouth would win as well. Now they’re four down.
Can’t believe we gave them six points this season.
Shows how much I know. I’ll blame my pessimism on following Aston Villa.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 01, 2020, 08:04:06 PM
*Vomits
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 08:04:37 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 08:06:29 PM
Er...come on Chelsea!*
*Vomits
You can bring yourself to cheer Tammy for this.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 01, 2020, 08:14:16 PM
Er...come on Chelsea!*
*Vomits
You can bring yourself to cheer Tammy for this.
I certainly can.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 01, 2020, 09:36:19 PM
It's Watford we need to catch. Still got to play Arsenal, Man. City and Chelsea so a few more games they can lose in the run in.
West Ham having nothing to play for on the final day would help aswell.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2020, 10:09:52 PM
Post by: ez on July 01, 2020, 10:12:44 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 01, 2020, 10:15:04 PM
No feeling we can fight back and get a draw. When Chelsea scored the second the other week we barely created anything until that Jota shot past the post. There was still half an hour left when Giroud scored.
Still let's hope Watford lose 4 of their last 6 and so we still have a chance. Chelsea up next for Watford....
Post by: David_Nab on July 01, 2020, 10:16:42 PM
Post by: richtheholtender on July 01, 2020, 10:18:39 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 01, 2020, 10:18:56 PM
Post by: brontebilly on July 01, 2020, 10:31:34 PM
It's down to four teams left unless Brighton get dragged back in.
Post by: David_Nab on July 01, 2020, 10:33:37 PM
You just know when we go down that we won’t just win the championship and come back up like most premier league sides. We will be 12th in February and probably spend 3 years down there 🙄
Most Prem leagues don't come back up ,the current bottom 6 in the Championship 4 of them are recent PL clubs inc Stoke and Boro.Of the 3 teams that went down last season at best one will get back up and then only via the play offs
I see people saying we will go down and regroup and bounce back or they enjoyed the Championship.They must only be remember the last 12 weeks or so of our 3 rd season down there , on our 3 manager , 2nd owners and countless games against small teams that where every bit as bad as losing to Chelsea etc.
Post by: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:42:55 PM
Post by: postal on July 02, 2020, 03:54:29 AM
Norwich show more fight than we do
The gamble hasn't worked.
I hope we don't get screwed on the Grealish transfer fee.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 02, 2020, 03:57:50 AM
Yes, if we can't manage to win, or even look like winning, we don't deserve to stay up. No one seems bothered.
Norwich show more fight than we do
The gamble hasn't worked.
I hope we don't get screwed on the Grealish transfer fee.
How are Norwich showing more fight? They've lost all 3, conceding 8 and scoring 0.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 02, 2020, 04:07:43 AM
Mini league since the restart
Edited, now with shots/on target tacked on
West Ham P3 W1 D0 L2 F3 A6 27/8
Aston Villa P4 W0 D2 L2 F2 A4 47/13
Watford P3 W0 D1 L2 F2 A5 26/9
B'mouth P3 W0 D0 L3 F1 A7 28/2
Norwich P3 W0 D0 L3 F0 A8 26/4
I can't square this circle of apparently having no fight or bottle compared to our immediate peers when we've conceded the fewest goals (including the only clean sheet in the 16 games played so far) and had the most efforts.
Post by: postal on July 02, 2020, 04:47:32 AM
Yes, if we can't manage to win, or even look like winning, we don't deserve to stay up. No one seems bothered.
Norwich show more fight than we do
The gamble hasn't worked.
I hope we don't get screwed on the Grealish transfer fee.
How are Norwich showing more fight? They've lost all 3, conceding 8 and scoring 0.
There's a difference between showing fight, and ability. Norwich players at least have a go at it, despite of their position and overall ability.
Villa's players have greater ability, but just don't seem up for it.
I hope I am wrong, but I can't see it.
Post by: ROBBO on July 02, 2020, 05:11:26 AM
Post by: sid1964 on July 02, 2020, 06:22:40 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 02, 2020, 07:44:10 AM
Watford have an easier finish to the season and although i believe we have the better players i think their players fight harder. If they beat Norwich it's going to be very difficult.Watford will get 7 points imo. Leaving us needing 8 and snookers. Two win and two draws from 6 games. Not going to happen is it
Post by: sickbeggar on July 02, 2020, 08:30:52 AM
Post by: WassallVillain on July 02, 2020, 08:42:11 AM
Can't imagine Trez or AEG producing a finish like Yarmolenko managed at the end.
Grealish could do that but of course he would be fouled before he had the chance. Compare last nights foul stats from similar possession stats.
Post by: chrisw1 on July 02, 2020, 08:48:00 AM
Only consolation i can see is since we've returned we've lost to teams who are miles better than us If anything on form, newcastle and sheffield united look good results. Anything from Liverpool and ManU would be a miracle, so really its down to 4 games where the chances of a win are more than a fluke. Palace and arsenal are must wins. A draw at everton is possible. 34 points at a nervous/safe west ham for the final game? Doable.How does Sheffield look a good result? Forgetting their position in the table they've been dreadful since the restart and were absolutely there for the taking. Our failure to capitalise on that opportunity is probably what will ultimately cost us.
Post by: aj2k77 on July 02, 2020, 08:49:41 AM
Post by: sickbeggar on July 02, 2020, 08:55:14 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on July 02, 2020, 08:59:33 AM
erm......you can't really forget their position in the table. They are 17 points ahead of us and have let in 23 less goals. For all their iffy form since the return, they should beat pish like us.Disagree. You said on form Sheffield looks like a good result. Given they have looked awful since the restart then on form it looks like a poor result.
If your going purely on table position, then Newcastle looks like a poor result given our circumstances and needing to find wins somewhere.
Post by: Mister E on July 02, 2020, 09:05:39 AM
Hindsight and chances-created suggest we should have beaten both SheffU and Jawdies - we lack the clinical delivery of goals.erm......you can't really forget their position in the table. They are 17 points ahead of us and have let in 23 less goals. For all their iffy form since the return, they should beat pish like us.Disagree. You said on form Sheffield looks like a good result. Given they have looked awful since the restart then on form it looks like a poor result.
If your going purely on table position, then Newcastle looks like a poor result given our circumstances and needing to find wins somewhere.
Post by: sickbeggar on July 02, 2020, 09:08:46 AM
erm......you can't really forget their position in the table. They are 17 points ahead of us and have let in 23 less goals. For all their iffy form since the return, they should beat pish like us.Disagree. You said on form Sheffield looks like a good result. Given they have looked awful since the restart then on form it looks like a poor result.
If your going purely on table position, then Newcastle looks like a poor result given our circumstances and needing to find wins somewhere.
Well i meant form this season really. Sheffield United could pack up today and we still wouldn't get within waving distance. And it would be a brave man who bets that 17 point gap won't be bigger by the end of the season even with their post-Covid form.
Post by: The Fish on July 02, 2020, 09:53:23 AM
ASM had the run of the Vitality Stadium and while taking him off made total sense, had he stayed on I think we would have scored more than the 4. They'll go down if they play anything like that again.
Post by: Richard E on July 02, 2020, 09:57:47 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2020, 09:59:34 AM
How are Norwich showing more fight? They've lost all 3, conceding 8 and scoring 0.Last night against Arsenal I saw Norwich players eagerly picking the ball out of the net and then running to kick off again. Now that's fighting spirit ::)
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2020, 10:01:49 AM
I'm as one-eyed as the next man/woman/non-binary when it comes to Villa, but I am convinced we are screwed.It appears that our strategy that teams around us will lose all their remaining matches is a little suspect.
Post by: robbo1874 on July 02, 2020, 10:23:36 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 02, 2020, 10:28:04 AM
Post by: tony scott on July 02, 2020, 10:30:45 AM
Post by: Drummond on July 02, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
Only consolation i can see is since we've returned we've lost to teams who are miles better than us If anything on form, newcastle and sheffield united look good results. Anything from Liverpool and ManU would be a miracle, so really its down to 4 games where the chances of a win are more than a fluke. Palace and arsenal are must wins. A draw at everton is possible. 34 points at a nervous/safe west ham for the final game? Doable.How does Sheffield look a good result? Forgetting their position in the table they've been dreadful since the restart and were absolutely there for the taking. Our failure to capitalise on that opportunity is probably what will ultimately cost us.
Yes, you're right, our season all comes down to only getting a draw at home to Sheffield United, who were in the Top 7 when we played them in the first game anyone had played in 100 days..
Post by: ez on July 02, 2020, 12:12:14 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 02, 2020, 01:37:25 PM
We had 25 points by January 21st after beating Watford so would've had nearly half a season to find one win so a pretty pathetic way to get relegated if we can't even do that.
Shows how long we've been in terrible form and I really can't see any way DS should continue next season if we go down in that manner.
Would be a bit different if we suddenly showed some fight and got a couple of wins and draws from games left but West Ham and Watford started winning and so we needed to get to 38 points to stay up and that was too much to do.
Post by: CT on July 02, 2020, 01:53:24 PM
Losing to Bournemouth twice, Watford away and dropping points v West Ham is what ultimately is going to relegate us. It’s our own bloody fault. Not been good enough and we’ve crumbled.
Also Southampton away. A vital game we threw away as the players weren’t prepared to scrap and risk injury with the big glory final a week away.
One of the first glimpses that Jack had seen enough too.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 02, 2020, 02:00:03 PM
For me our record v top 6/7 is more reason if we go down. In normal seasons it wouldn't matter so much but every other week one of our rivals is getting a "shock" win v them. All the more pathetic when you see how many times we were leading v one of them in the second half and we couldn't even close out a draw.
Draws v Liverpool and Spurs at home and we'd be 17th.
Post by: chrisw1 on July 02, 2020, 02:06:01 PM
On the day Sheffield were really poor (and have been since) and it was a big opportunity that we didn't take. I think winning that game would have completely changed the complexion of where we are now, both in terms of points and mentality, but if you don't that's fair enough.Only consolation i can see is since we've returned we've lost to teams who are miles better than us If anything on form, newcastle and sheffield united look good results. Anything from Liverpool and ManU would be a miracle, so really its down to 4 games where the chances of a win are more than a fluke. Palace and arsenal are must wins. A draw at everton is possible. 34 points at a nervous/safe west ham for the final game? Doable.How does Sheffield look a good result? Forgetting their position in the table they've been dreadful since the restart and were absolutely there for the taking. Our failure to capitalise on that opportunity is probably what will ultimately cost us.
Yes, you're right, our season all comes down to only getting a draw at home to Sheffield United, who were in the Top 7 when we played them in the first game anyone had played in 100 days..
Post by: Luke8 on July 02, 2020, 02:17:15 PM
For me our record v top 6/7 is more reason if we go down. In normal seasons it wouldn't matter so much but every other week one of our rivals is getting a "shock" win v them. All the more pathetic when you see how many times we were leading v one of them in the second half and we couldn't even close out a draw.
Saw something the other day, showing that our results against the ‘Other 14’ teams was better than Brighton, Watford, West Ham, Bournemouth and Norwich. But all of them have managed to take at least five points from the ‘big six.
Obviously doesn’t ultimately matter who you take the points from but makes it all quite frustrating.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 02, 2020, 02:47:44 PM
Losing to Bournemouth twice, Watford away and dropping points v West Ham is what ultimately is going to relegate us. It’s our own bloody fault. Not been good enough and we’ve crumbled.
Also Southampton away. A vital game we threw away as the players weren’t prepared to scrap and risk injury with the big glory final a week away.
One of the first glimpses that Jack had seen enough too.
100%
Post by: algy on July 02, 2020, 04:20:11 PM
I sense that there's results being attributed to other sides that haven't happened.I'm in agreement here - relative to the sides around us, I think we've done alright since the restart. We've had the hardest set of games out of any of the bottom 5, with the possible exception of West Ham.
Mini league since the restart
Edited, now with shots/on target tacked on
West Ham P3 W1 D0 L2 F3 A6 27/8
Aston Villa P4 W0 D2 L2 F2 A4 47/13
Watford P3 W0 D1 L2 F2 A5 26/9
B'mouth P3 W0 D0 L3 F1 A7 28/2
Norwich P3 W0 D0 L3 F0 A8 26/4
I can't square this circle of apparently having no fight or bottle compared to our immediate peers when we've conceded the fewest goals (including the only clean sheet in the 16 games played so far) and had the most efforts.
Bournemouth look done for now. Norwich have a relatively good set of fixtures for the run-in, but I suspect they might've just given themselves a bit too much to do. West Ham have a relatively easy run in too, and seem to be doing alright. Think the battle will be between ourselves and Watford. Of those, I'd rather be in our shoes than their's in every matter except the number of points we're starting on.
Post by: eamonn on July 02, 2020, 04:32:46 PM
Worth noting though that if Mings hadn't scored in 94th minute in the Watford home game they'd be four clear of us so things could be worse.
For me our record v top 6/7 is more reason if we go down. In normal seasons it wouldn't matter so much but every other week one of our rivals is getting a "shock" win v them. All the more pathetic when you see how many times we were leading v one of them in the second half and we couldn't even close out a draw.
Draws v Liverpool and Spurs at home and we'd be 17th.
Mings knew nothing about it, it was Konsa's goal!
Post by: richtheholtender on July 02, 2020, 04:57:11 PM
I sense that there's results being attributed to other sides that haven't happened.I'm in agreement here - relative to the sides around us, I think we've done alright since the restart. We've had the hardest set of games out of any of the bottom 5, with the possible exception of West Ham.
Mini league since the restart
Edited, now with shots/on target tacked on
West Ham P3 W1 D0 L2 F3 A6 27/8
Aston Villa P4 W0 D2 L2 F2 A4 47/13
Watford P3 W0 D1 L2 F2 A5 26/9
B'mouth P3 W0 D0 L3 F1 A7 28/2
Norwich P3 W0 D0 L3 F0 A8 26/4
I can't square this circle of apparently having no fight or bottle compared to our immediate peers when we've conceded the fewest goals (including the only clean sheet in the 16 games played so far) and had the most efforts.
Bournemouth look done for now. Norwich have a relatively good set of fixtures for the run-in, but I suspect they might've just given themselves a bit too much to do. West Ham have a relatively easy run in too, and seem to be doing alright. Think the battle will be between ourselves and Watford. Of those, I'd rather be in our shoes than their's in every matter except the number of points we're starting on.
I think Watford will beat Norwich and draw with Newcastle.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 02, 2020, 04:57:52 PM
Man Utd [H]
Crystal Palace [H]
Everton [A]
Arsenal [H]
West Ham [A]
Put your hearts away in a box somewhere for a second, and look at the above fixture list.
With the manager we have in charge, the form of our team, and the 'coming into form' of a lot of those opponents, I can see us picking up a maximum haul of 3 pts from that lot (and that's if Palace don't show up!).
We have to BETTER Watford or West Ham's results to stay up. They have a handful of tricky ties too, but there's no point working out which games they can and can't win - Can you really see us taking points off any of those teams above, the form we're in?!
I'm pretty certain we're gone already - Smith should have been potted at Christmas.
Post by: postal on July 02, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
7 points
WHam that win and a handful of draws will see them safe
Us... 7 points at best
B'mouth are in a very sticky situation
So Mystic Postal has spoken, it's B'mouth and us, Watford safe by a point....
Post by: Ad@m on July 02, 2020, 10:33:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2020, 11:30:44 PM
Aftab- I’ve spent the last couple of weeks looking out for other teams’ results and checking the table. After West Ham beat Chelsea I told myself enough’ enough of that. Down to us now to scrape home. Fk everyone else, although Watford look like getting dragged in now...Agreed Robbo. We must not die hoping we have to do something about it.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 03, 2020, 07:16:49 AM
Well, Watford's run of Chelsea, Norwich, Newcastle, WHam, ManC & Arsenal, could be a run of draws, other than Norwich. So that's 4 draws, 1 win and a loss to ManCzMystic ?
7 points
WHam that win and a handful of draws will see them safe
Us... 7 points at best
B'mouth are in a very sticky situation
So Mystic Postal has spoken, it's B'mouth and us, Watford safe by a point....
I voted those 3 2nd of Feb mate.
Post by: gpbarr on July 03, 2020, 12:53:58 PM
We could be out of touch by the time we play our next easy game.
I think by the time we play Palace, we will be 4 points behind Watford (they will lose at Chelsea but beat Norwich, we will lose at both 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and ManUre). That game will be massive - season defining. And even if we win, we have to pray Newcastle beat Watford.
If all that happens, somehow (miracles do happen) we will still be in the mix.
But I’d bet my house now that we are down. Everton, Arsenal, and WHU will all be very difficult games that even the most positive individual would regard as challenging.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 03, 2020, 01:14:52 PM
Post by: Ad@m on July 03, 2020, 01:17:23 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 03, 2020, 07:15:49 PM
Palace, Everton, Arsenal and West Ham are all challenging games, as one would and should expect in the top division. But unwinnable, even in our current position? Certainly not.Which one do you think we will win?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 03, 2020, 08:03:45 PM
Will? No idea.Palace, Everton, Arsenal and West Ham are all challenging games, as one would and should expect in the top division. But unwinnable, even in our current position? Certainly not.Which one do you think we will win?
Could? All four, if we approach them with the right attitude and focus.
Post by: sickbeggar on July 03, 2020, 10:02:26 PM
Post by: Legion on July 03, 2020, 10:02:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2020, 09:29:19 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 04, 2020, 09:40:37 AM
Post by: Legion on July 04, 2020, 02:35:07 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2020, 02:38:29 PM
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 04, 2020, 02:56:27 PM
Praying for Bournemouth and Watford to get smashed. Personally I think Bournemouth look finished. Their last display was so inept vs Newcastle. My fear is Watford, who haven’t looked great but they have the edge in my opinion over us in experience, overall talent and a manager who may be able to get more out of what he has in the last few games. West Ham certainly are not out of it but they have the best talent of the three clubs.I agree TV … The West Ham win over Chelsea was a crucial one …. we have not looked as if we mean business whatsoever and look resigned to the drop ...
Post by: Goldie.7 on July 04, 2020, 03:15:36 PM
Before restart:
(https://i.postimg.cc/nLCwMg7L/1.jpg)
During restart:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMwY7mkJ/2.jpg)
Not much has changed position wise. Our plight is inevitable.
Post by: sickbeggar on July 04, 2020, 03:24:53 PM
Post by: Ad@m on July 04, 2020, 05:46:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2020, 05:49:05 PM
Post by: Richie on July 04, 2020, 09:59:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2020, 10:04:53 PM
Post by: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 11:07:08 PM
Or even keep it below three goals against ...
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 04, 2020, 11:07:55 PM
Have to look at every single stat and GD is very important now. Watford are -23 compared to our -24. Watford still got to play Man. City so prospect of another heavy defeat.
We will then have to win 1 of the last 4 and scramble two draws and cross our fingers.
Post by: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 11:14:12 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 04, 2020, 11:32:17 PM
Don't think one win and a couple of draws would do it. Two wins at least.
The way it's going, I'm starting to think two more points might be enough! As we reach the conclusion of another round of matches, the bottom 5, fighting for their lives, have still mustered only one solitary win between them in 19 games.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 05, 2020, 12:12:30 AM
Don't think one win and a couple of draws would do it. Two wins at least.
The way it's going, I'm starting to think two more points might be enough! As we reach the conclusion of another round of matches, the bottom 5, fighting for their lives, have still mustered only one solitary win between them in 19 games.
Watford have dropped right back in it, but I can just see them scraping a couple of wins from somewhere. Bournemouth look completely gone at the moment.
Post by: adrenachrome on July 05, 2020, 01:02:13 AM
Don't think one win and a couple of draws would do it. Two wins at least.
The way it's going, I'm starting to think two more points might be enough! As we reach the conclusion of another round of matches, the bottom 5, fighting for their lives, have still mustered only one solitary win between them in 19 games.
Watford have dropped right back in it, but I can just see them scraping a couple of wins from somewhere. Bournemouth look completely gone at the moment.
Yes.
The one thing in our favour is that many teams have been sluggish and below par for a couple of games after the restart and then burst into life, and found their zing. MoN used to call it vim, which was a detergent in my young day.
I remember a home game against Watford late in the season on our way to Division 3. We lost 0-2. The Watford fans were in what is now the Lower Trinity when it was a terrace. I was ejected from the back of the Holte and missed most of the game.
Those were the days, my friends.
Post by: robbo1874 on July 05, 2020, 04:17:26 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 06:24:55 AM
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 05, 2020, 07:04:25 AM
And Watford and Villa both play Wet Spam
My head hurts..
Post by: john2710 on July 05, 2020, 07:35:09 AM
Post by: Rotterdam on July 05, 2020, 08:51:15 AM
Post by: yammers on July 05, 2020, 11:55:07 AM
Post by: Dick Edwards on July 05, 2020, 12:14:30 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 05, 2020, 12:19:50 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 05, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
I think we can and we will just scrape home this season. Norwich are gone, Bournemouth look puss and Watford are struggling badly. We’ve had a couple of draws and lost a couple, but don’t look too bad, compared to the others. Probably get spanked by Liverpool and Man U, but Palace and Everton are winnable, with maybe a point from Arsenal. See West Ham off and it could be reasonably comfortable. Although being Villa probably not. We’ll limp over the line I reckon.
We haven't really looked like winning a game since the season re-started, but just hope that things can stay pretty much as they are after the next two games.
If we can go into the Palace game pretty much as we stand then we might just have a chance.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 05, 2020, 01:04:38 PM
Don't think one win and a couple of draws would do it. Two wins at least.
The way it's going, I'm starting to think two more points might be enough! As we reach the conclusion of another round of matches, the bottom 5, fighting for their lives, have still mustered only one solitary win between them in 19 games.
Watford have dropped right back in it, but I can just see them scraping a couple of wins from somewhere. Bournemouth look completely gone at the moment.
Yes.
The one thing in our favour is that many teams have been sluggish and below par for a couple of games after the restart and then burst into life, and found their zing. MoN used to call it vim, which was a detergent in my young day.
I remember a home game against Watford late in the season on our way to Division 3. We lost 0-2. The Watford fans were in what is now the Lower Trinity when it was a terrace. I was ejected from the back of the Holte and missed most of the game.
Those were the days, my friends.
I'm watching more of other teams than I have in the 14 years since I last had paid football telly, and in my measured opinion I'd say that restart was a shock to everyone, but as it's progressed the 'better' sides are now hitting their stride. For us teams at the bottom, I think the best opportunity for points was early on, with Brighton being the benchmark, and our two draws the pick of the rest. I think the Spam win was an anomaly thrown up by Lampard trying to rotate his starting 11 (there's no chance they'd have beaten that Chelsea side from last night), something that those sides don't really need to do with 5 subs allowed, which is another thing that's not in the favour of us basement-dwellers.
After our 4-in-11 start, we've now had 8 days off. Yes, tough game to come back to, and it's difficult to imagine anything other than a defeat, but I'll be watching how we play. I think more tempered, less gung-ho will give us our best chance of surviving this.
Post by: curiousorange on July 05, 2020, 01:47:51 PM
That said, if we've still got a chance on the last day I'd snap your hand off, since we've either kept our head above water or at least one other club has had a nightmare run.
Post by: gpbarr on July 05, 2020, 02:00:46 PM
It looks to me that the teams who were playing well before lockdown are now playing well again, Liverpool's game excepted. No free hits, no shocks to come. Goal difference could certainly settle this.
That said, if we've still got a chance on the last day I'd snap your hand off, since we've either kept our head above water or at least one other club has had a nightmare run.
Me too. I think Watford get 5 or 6 more points from their 5 games remaining - they beat Norwich, and get 2 or 3 points from the WHU or Newcastle games. But they will have a better GD than us.
So we need 6 or 7 points. Assuming no surprises against MU or 'The Mighty Reds YNWA', we need that haul from 4 games - quite a form turnaround but not impossible. We must beat Palace to give ourselves a sniff - then even if we lose to both Arsenal and Everton (who both look in better form), we make it to the last day with destiny in our hands if we beat WHU
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 02:49:04 PM
You are going to have to run the mathS by me again.It looks to me that the teams who were playing well before lockdown are now playing well again, Liverpool's game excepted. No free hits, no shocks to come. Goal difference could certainly settle this.
That said, if we've still got a chance on the last day I'd snap your hand off, since we've either kept our head above water or at least one other club has had a nightmare run.
Me too. I think Watford get 5 or 6 more points from their 5 games remaining - they beat Norwich, and get 2 or 3 points from the WHU or Newcastle games. But they will have a better GD than us.
So we need 6 or 7 points. Assuming no surprises against MU or 'The Mighty Reds YNWA', we need that haul from 4 games - quite a form turnaround but not impossible. We must beat Palace to give ourselves a sniff - then even if we lose to both Arsenal and Everton (who both look in better form), we make it to the last day with destiny in our hands if we beat WHU
Post by: ez on July 05, 2020, 03:20:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 05, 2020, 06:33:33 PM
Post by: LukeJames on July 05, 2020, 06:49:01 PM
I highly doubt we'll get 5 points from the next 5 games, and that Watford wont pick up any more points.
Post by: CT on July 05, 2020, 06:51:24 PM
Watford beat Norwich tomorrow and then theres a 4 point gap with an inferior goal difference, and I think thats as good as us gone.
I highly doubt we'll get 5 points from the next 5 games, and that Watford wont pick up any more points.
Yep, I think that’s it. Obviously I don’t want them to win, but part of me just wants it over and done with. By the time we’ve played Palace, I reckon that will be about it.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 05, 2020, 06:53:25 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on July 05, 2020, 06:55:20 PM
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 05, 2020, 06:56:26 PM
Draw with Manure and Arsenal, win the other 3. Job done.you've hit the sherry a little early this evening .....or am I missing the "humour" ?
Post by: Legion on July 05, 2020, 06:56:41 PM
Post by: CT on July 05, 2020, 07:38:27 PM
Even taking an optimistic view, there will be a reckoning and that will be West Ham, i don't fancy that to have to survive.
2 points from the last 27. Don’t think it will get as far as West Ham.
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 07:47:23 PM
Those saying that Jack hangs on to the ball too long are very short sighted. It's a tactic to draw a foul, an opportunity to get the ball into the box, or take the steam out of a situation, to give players time to draw breath and reorganise. If our free kicks were any good, we would be more of a force to be reckoned with.
Post by: eamonn on July 05, 2020, 08:03:12 PM
Said elsewhere that we could still stay up if we could sort out the appalling current strike force options. Davis is simply not good enough. Can't even suggest Archer as an option as he has not been selected to train with the first team and there is no current Academy provision.
Archer is completely untried at this level and he's behind Vassilev (and Barry if rumours about him being close to the match-day squad are true) in the pecking order.
Post by: Legion on July 05, 2020, 08:07:36 PM
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2020, 08:12:20 PM
Post by: Ad@m on July 05, 2020, 08:16:38 PM
I’m not sure what point there is in playing Vassilev. He doesn’t look ready for the first team to me.
He’s no worse than Davis.
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 05, 2020, 08:41:44 PM
it would be difficult to be worse than DavisI’m not sure what point there is in playing Vassilev. He doesn’t look ready for the first team to me.
He’s no worse than Davis.
Post by: adrenachrome on July 05, 2020, 09:04:31 PM
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 05, 2020, 09:28:57 PM
Watford beat Norwich tomorrow and then theres a 4 point gap with an inferior goal difference, and I think thats as good as us gone.
I highly doubt we'll get 5 points from the next 5 games, and that Watford wont pick up any more points.
Come on Delia, Let's Be 'Aving You
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 05, 2020, 09:35:20 PM
We're going down like Buddy Holly.
Not in the best of taste
Post by: algy on July 05, 2020, 11:36:59 PM
| Watford | Us |
| Norwich (h) | Crystal Palace (h) |
| Newcastle (h) | Everton (a) |
| West Ham (a) | West Ham (a) |
| Man City (h) | Man Utd (h) |
| Arsenal (a) | Arsenal (h) |
... you'd probably just take their fixtures over ours, but I'm not sure there's a massive difference ... and IMO we look more likely to pick up points than they do right now.
I dunno, I'm still moderately optimistic that we'll stay up at the moment.
Post by: OzVilla on July 05, 2020, 11:50:14 PM
I still cant get my head around how we've ended up 12 months on from the Championship having a team thats actually worse than the one we went up with.
Post by: rougegorge on July 05, 2020, 11:54:51 PM
To me, it looks like it's going to be a one-on-one scrap between ourselves and Watford. Think it'll be close. They're a point and +1GD ahead, but looking at the two sets of fixtures (theirs in order)The order of the matches is very significant, although you've put Watford's in order but not ours.
Watford Us Norwich (h) Crystal Palace (h) Newcastle (h) Everton (a) West Ham (a) West Ham (a) Man City (h) Man Utd (h) Arsenal (a) Arsenal (h)
... you'd probably just take their fixtures over ours, but I'm not sure there's a massive difference ... and IMO we look more likely to pick up points than they do right now.
I dunno, I'm still moderately optimistic that we'll stay up at the moment.
The likelihood is that by Thursday, they will be 4 points clear with at least a 5 goal better goal difference, and with Newcastle at home to follow, it could be even worse by the time we face Palace.
It's not in our own hands and we have scraped 2 points from the last 27. We are relying on the ineptitude of others to even have a chance of staying up
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 06, 2020, 12:01:08 AM
The advantage Watford have is in the sequence of their fixtures, that Norwich game they have is pivotal as a win and they'll gain confidence. We dont seem to be a team that can respond when under pressure either.
I still cant get my head around how we've ended up 12 months on from the Championship having a team thats actually worse than the one we went up with.
Because most of the players last season were either on loan or leaving.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:10:39 AM
Imagine if you said in August all we needed was 32 points to stay in the league. I doubt anyone would've thought we'd struggle to make that.
It's in our interests for West Ham to beat Watford and be safe by final day. Saw how half hearted Liverpool were today without anything to play for.
Post by: Villan82 on July 06, 2020, 01:11:38 AM
I genuinely think there is more potential in this squad than some of the dross under Lambert or Sherwood.
If the worst happens, we will look back on this season as the real sucker punch. It hurts way more than 2015-16. We have under-achieved.
Post by: ROBBO on July 06, 2020, 01:13:08 AM
When we fall behind in games the games over because we do not have a decent forward on our books except Grealish. It's a monumental failure of management.
Post by: OzVilla on July 06, 2020, 03:44:57 AM
Post by: Villafirst on July 06, 2020, 04:34:44 AM
Post by: Luke8 on July 06, 2020, 07:47:24 AM
The biggest decision management had to make last year was who to bring in to compensate for losing our leading goal scorer, they failed miserably, and it set the season up for failure.
When we fall behind in games the games over because we do not have a decent forward on our books except Grealish. It's a monumental failure of management.
He clearly has flaws, but when Wesley got injured we had 21 points from 21 games, I believe. He also had five league goals at that point. To compare, just as I’ve seen them mentioned as alternatives (if we had x player etc.) at this current point of the season, Maupay has nine, Wilson eight and Deeney has six.
Don’t think it’s particularly outlandish to say that had he not got injured we would quite likely have seen at least a couple more goals and points.
Post by: Luke8 on July 06, 2020, 07:51:50 AM
We basically spent 100 million on a load of squad fillers by binning off our original squad fillers for zero. We upgraded our goalkeeper but actually went backwards in RCB and main Striker.
Which of our squad fillers would you have kept that would have made any difference? I don’t think any of them would have.
I’d very much imagine we looked at trying to get both Axel and Tammy but it obviously wasn’t possible. That’s the issue with the loan market.
Post by: rougegorge on July 06, 2020, 09:05:14 AM
Whilst it's true the squad needed replacements, those factors were known and it doesn't explain or justify why the team that went up last season was better than the current one.The advantage Watford have is in the sequence of their fixtures, that Norwich game they have is pivotal as a win and they'll gain confidence. We dont seem to be a team that can respond when under pressure either.
I still cant get my head around how we've ended up 12 months on from the Championship having a team thats actually worse than the one we went up with.
Because most of the players last season were either on loan or leaving.
That just highlights how poor the management and recruitment have been for us to have ended up like this.
Post by: Ads on July 06, 2020, 10:19:01 AM
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 10:24:39 AM
8 points will keep us up. We have to beat Palace and West Ham and scramble 2 points from Man United, Everton and Arsenal. 8 points and we're OK. 7 and we're only ol if there's a big goal difference swing.
Its just getting the goals to win those games though. The two goals we have scored since the re-start have come from defenders which is great but it's obviously not good enough at the moment.
Post by: brian green on July 06, 2020, 10:31:07 AM
We may have a Villa legend in the wings. Or then again we may not.
I just want this horrible, horrible year to be over.
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:35:55 AM
Post by: Ads on July 06, 2020, 10:38:58 AM
Two points from the last 27 would suggest that 7 or 8 from the last 15 is something of a forlorn hope. I don't think we've managed 8 points from 5 games at any point this season, and our utter toothlessness in front of a goal would suggest we're not about to start now.
Suggests to me its the time to start. I'm not convinced, ever, by an argument that says I cannot achieve something today, because I couldn't do it yesterday.
That's what I think we need to do, as I think Watford will beat Norwich and possibly one of Newcastle or West Ham. The execution of it is going to be difficult, but easy is for everybody, the impossible is for the immortal.
Post by: Luke8 on July 06, 2020, 10:47:34 AM
Two points from the last 27 would suggest that 7 or 8 from the last 15 is something of a forlorn hope. I don't think we've managed 8 points from 5 games at any point this season, and our utter toothlessness in front of a goal would suggest we're not about to start now.
You could quite easily apply the same logic to Watford and Bournemouth.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 06, 2020, 11:12:45 AM
Suggests to me its the time to start. I'm not convinced, ever, by an argument that says I cannot achieve something today, because I couldn't do it yesterday.It's not so much about 'can we' or can't we'. In the sense that it's possible, of course we can. But is it likely? And is it more likely today than it was yesterday?
Post by: Duncan Shaw on July 06, 2020, 11:16:08 AM
I suppose the flip of that is if we were still only a point behind it would be a huge lift!
Post by: Ads on July 06, 2020, 11:21:55 AM
Suggests to me its the time to start. I'm not convinced, ever, by an argument that says I cannot achieve something today, because I couldn't do it yesterday.It's not so much about 'can we' or can't we'. In the sense that it's possible, of course we can. But is it likely? And is it more likely today than it was yesterday?
Anything is more likely outside the top 2, so yes, based on Sunday I feel we're more likely to beat Man United than we were before yesterday (we're mixing the literal and metaphoric).
Is going to be easy? No. Do we have deficiencies? God yes, especially going forwards.
But with a solid block, good organisation and a growing confidence (which you could see second half) then yeah, why not. I thought Sunday could be a massacre, I'm not a triumphalist in defeat, but there was positives. Much more positive than Watford at Chelsea.
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 11:25:31 AM
Two points from the last 27 would suggest that 7 or 8 from the last 15 is something of a forlorn hope. I don't think we've managed 8 points from 5 games at any point this season, and our utter toothlessness in front of a goal would suggest we're not about to start now.
You could quite easily apply the same logic to Watford and Bournemouth.
Watford are a point above us, are out of the relegation spots and have to play Norwich next. Bournemouth will be going down with us and Norwich.
Post by: Ads on July 06, 2020, 11:29:49 AM
Post by: ez on July 06, 2020, 02:42:57 PM
Two points from the last 27 would suggest that 7 or 8 from the last 15 is something of a forlorn hope. I don't think we've managed 8 points from 5 games at any point this season, and our utter toothlessness in front of a goal would suggest we're not about to start now.
You could quite easily apply the same logic to Watford and Bournemouth.
Watford are a point above us, are out of the relegation spots and have to play Norwich next. Bournemouth will be going down with us and Norwich.
The depressing thing is all those that sacked their managers mid season are looking like benefitting from it.
Post by: Luke8 on July 06, 2020, 03:30:57 PM
Two points from the last 27 would suggest that 7 or 8 from the last 15 is something of a forlorn hope. I don't think we've managed 8 points from 5 games at any point this season, and our utter toothlessness in front of a goal would suggest we're not about to start now.
You could quite easily apply the same logic to Watford and Bournemouth.
Watford are a point above us, are out of the relegation spots and have to play Norwich next. Bournemouth will be going down with us and Norwich.
The depressing thing is all those that sacked their managers mid season are looking like benefitting from it.
Not as simple as that though is it. West Ham have picked up three more points than us in the time since Moyes was appointed.
And Brighton have managed to get to safety without changing their manager
Post by: Richard E on July 06, 2020, 10:20:10 PM
Post by: CT on July 07, 2020, 08:04:34 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 07, 2020, 08:39:33 AM
Just hope Norwich are in the mood to make a game of it tonight.
I really hope so. We will struggle even more if Watford get a decent win as the goal difference will be another huge barrier.
Post by: OzVilla on July 07, 2020, 08:50:46 AM
Post by: Ads on July 07, 2020, 10:21:38 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 07, 2020, 10:39:45 AM
Post by: CT on July 07, 2020, 07:54:14 PM
Sigh.
Post by: Nastylee on July 07, 2020, 08:01:44 PM
January transfer window was a disgrace. We did nothing to improve our squad or chances. All the ambitious talk counted for nothing when it mattered. A decent signing in January would have probably seen us safe. That's what hursts the most, this league is shit and the opportunity was there. Serious questions to be answered from those in charge.
Post by: Ads on July 07, 2020, 08:03:47 PM
Goals are a problem for sure, but that's because we're playing Davis. Not that Samatta appears on form but, Davis hasn't scored since Burton Albion is it? So what do we expect.
Post by: Villan82 on July 07, 2020, 08:03:54 PM
I doubt we have more than a win in us. Unfortunately, we have approached this arse backwards. We're now trying to defend but couldn't score in a brothel. When we started the season and should've shut up shop in games and secured valuable points we threw it away. Now we need to go for it we can barely muster a shot on target.
January transfer window was a disgrace. We did nothing to improve our squad or chances. All the ambitious talk counted for nothing when it mattered. A decent signing in January would have probably seen us safe. That's what hursts the most, this league is shit and the opportunity was there. Serious questions to be answered from those in charge.
A bigger clusterfuck than 2015-16.
The bit in bold is the bit that frustrates me. Utter incompetence from top to bottom.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 07, 2020, 08:05:50 PM
Didn't the stats show we've had more efforts on goal than any if the bottom 5?
Goals are a problem for sure, but that's because we're playing Davis. Not that Samatta appears on form but, Davis hasn't scored since Burton Albion is it? So what do we expect.
Most shots, most on target.
Post by: Nastylee on July 07, 2020, 08:07:32 PM
Didn't the stats show we've had more efforts on goal than any if the bottom 5?
Goals are a problem for sure, but that's because we're playing Davis. Not that Samatta appears on form but, Davis hasn't scored since Burton Albion is it? So what do we expect.
Most shots, most on target.
And still don't look like scoring
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 07, 2020, 08:13:23 PM
I wonder how many of those shots have come from our strikers.Didn't the stats show we've had more efforts on goal than any if the bottom 5?
Goals are a problem for sure, but that's because we're playing Davis. Not that Samatta appears on form but, Davis hasn't scored since Burton Albion is it? So what do we expect.
Most shots, most on target.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 07, 2020, 08:14:17 PM
Didn't the stats show we've had more efforts on goal than any if the bottom 5?
Goals are a problem for sure, but that's because we're playing Davis. Not that Samatta appears on form but, Davis hasn't scored since Burton Albion is it? So what do we expect.
Most shots, most on target.
And still don't look like scoring
Only because our strikers are shit. They've scored a total of four English league goals between them. Half of those at a lower level.
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 08:17:00 PM
Post by: Ads on July 07, 2020, 08:17:51 PM
Post by: SaddVillan on July 07, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
Bollocks
Post by: Nastylee on July 07, 2020, 08:21:19 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 07, 2020, 08:21:47 PM
Most goals scored at home in any league game. 2. Fucking 2!
Most goals conceded at home. 6.
Goals conceded so far. 62 (Sixty Two)
That's why we're going down.
Post by: Des Little on July 07, 2020, 08:27:41 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 07, 2020, 08:29:00 PM
Post by: Clampy on July 07, 2020, 08:30:36 PM
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 07, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 07, 2020, 08:45:18 PM
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 08:49:36 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 07, 2020, 08:52:28 PM
I'd imagine that the answers would be a couple of resounding "No"s. As such, why is everyone losing their shit tonight?!
If we fail to beat Palace, fair enough,we'll look cooked. This week has been, and will be, entirely predictable.
Post by: Richard E on July 07, 2020, 08:53:26 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 07, 2020, 08:54:15 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 07, 2020, 08:54:24 PM
It was also entirely predictable that Norwich would take the lead, just to get our hopes up.
Absolutely. Especially with it being so early. Almost a blessed relief that they only led for six minutes.
Post by: myf on July 07, 2020, 09:01:50 PM
It’s quite something to get yourself relegated from the worst Premier League for years, but we’re in prime position to do it. What a sad state of affairs.
bit extreme. We finished 5th in the championship. 18 points off the leaders.
there have been lots of bad decisions this year but odds were stacked against us having to build a new squad, regardless of how much we spent.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 07, 2020, 09:01:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2020, 09:02:15 PM
I didn't expect either. I gave up after West Ham showed how not to bottle it against Chelsea. That's when I knew we were gone.
Yep we are going down because we are frequently wretched, much like those teams just above us, but the difference is we can never pull off the surprise win.
Post by: olaftab on July 07, 2020, 09:04:05 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 09:07:01 PM
Understand we are in deep mire but I don't understand the meltdown on the forum tonight just because another struggling team won a match which was bound to happen.
It’s not a meltdown. It’s the realization that the gap that was once small with a game in hand just got larger. And that there is nothing at all to suggest we can close it.
Post by: brian green on July 07, 2020, 09:07:47 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 07, 2020, 09:12:58 PM
lose against Man Utd and we're gone.We have already gone. Effectively 5 points from safety and cannot score goals.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 07, 2020, 09:13:11 PM
Understand we are in deep mire but I don't understand the meltdown on the forum tonight just because another struggling team won a match which was bound to happen.
It’s not a meltdown. It’s the realization that the gap that was once small with a game in hand just got larger. And that there is nothing at all to suggest we can close it.
Indeed. Our negative goal difference means we need 5 points to go above Watford.
Post by: Ads on July 07, 2020, 09:15:17 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 07, 2020, 09:16:03 PM
Understand we are in deep mire but I don't understand the meltdown on the forum tonight just because another struggling team won a match which was bound to happen.
After beating Watford at home in January we needed three wins out of 14 remaining games.
Now we need three from five.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 07, 2020, 09:19:37 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 07, 2020, 09:35:06 PM
If that.
The only if I'm certain of is if we'd sacked Smith before Christmas we wouldn't be in this position.
Post by: Villafirst on July 07, 2020, 09:40:05 PM
If this.
If that.
The only if I'm certain of is if we'd sacked Smith before Christmas we wouldn't be in this position.
Agree, the decision makers at the club don't do the obvious...
Post by: Des Little on July 07, 2020, 09:40:18 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 07, 2020, 09:41:58 PM
Post by: myf on July 07, 2020, 09:44:46 PM
Understand we are in deep mire but I don't understand the meltdown on the forum tonight just because another struggling team won a match which was bound to happen.
After beating Watford at home in January we needed three wins out of 14 remaining games.
Now we need three from five.
yep I remember saying 4 wins to a mate skipping out the ground. Seemed easy. The happiest bit since then was the prospect of null and void in March...
Post by: Richard E on July 07, 2020, 09:46:27 PM
On the way home from the utter shambles that was Watford away, I was convinced Deano’s time was up. His post match interview was as bad as the performance, moaning about the ballboys taking time etc. It probably should have been the time, we had the January window just around the corner. Sliding doors moment.
Conceding 2 goals against 10 men should have been curtains for him.
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 09:46:42 PM
(https://two-worlds.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Then-a-Miracle-Occurs-2-1038x576.jpg)
Post by: OzVilla on July 07, 2020, 09:52:57 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 07, 2020, 10:12:44 PM
lose against Man Utd and we're gone.We have already gone. Effectively 5 points from safety and cannot score goals.
Not quite, but I think we are on the brink. The Palace game is the glimmer of hope at the moment.
Post by: Flin5tone on July 07, 2020, 10:17:07 PM
Missed our chance in January to get rid of our shit manager and buy someone who can score
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 07, 2020, 10:27:44 PM
Post by: Des Little on July 07, 2020, 10:34:27 PM
Post by: Risso on July 07, 2020, 10:36:08 PM
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 10:37:35 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 07, 2020, 10:41:53 PM
If this.
If that.
The only if I'm certain of is if we'd sacked Smith before Christmas we wouldn't be in this position.
Agree, the decision makers at the club don't do the obvious...
How can you be certain of something that didn't even happen?
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 07, 2020, 10:52:57 PM
Norwich and Bournemouth bottom 2
Watford : draw with Newcastle (H) and West Ham (A), lose to Man C (H) and Arsenal (A) - 33 pts
Villa: lose to Man U , beat Palace (H), draw with Everton (A) , lose to Arsenal (H), beat West Ham (A) - 34 pts
None of those results , in isolation, that unlikely.
Keep The Faith !!!
Post by: Risso on July 07, 2020, 10:53:08 PM
Post by: ktvillan on July 07, 2020, 11:17:59 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 07, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
After Watford away, that was the moment. Plenty of us said it on here so no revisionism. Whole Jan window and the Winter break for search and getting to work. We’ll look back and say we blew it then.
No way were we going to pot a manager who'd got us to the semi final (and eventually the final) of a major cup competition just a few short months after securing promotion.
We can say the signs were there, but to act that early would have been viewed as brutal. At the time it merely looked like a bad run with our own fate well and truly in our hands. But -save for respite with the semi final win at home and the last minute winner against Pearson's lot - the bad run never truly ended.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 07, 2020, 11:32:20 PM
No way were we going to pot a manager who'd got us to the semi final (and eventually the final) of a major cup competition just a few short months after securing promotion.I hope that wasn't the thinking. Dean's not more important than the club or staying up. Some say brutal, some say decisive.
We can say the signs were there, but to act that early would have been viewed as brutal.
Post by: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 11:42:39 PM
Post by: The Edge on July 07, 2020, 11:46:15 PM
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 11:49:50 PM
Post by: Villan82 on July 08, 2020, 12:50:28 AM
If this.
If that.
The only if I'm certain of is if we'd sacked Smith before Christmas we wouldn't be in this position.
We all like Smith and he did well to get us up...and may well be the man to get us up again. But let's face it, the manager is the most important job at a club and it is at least a decade, more likely 14 years, since we went out and appointed a proven top manager. Making a whole series of bad appointments over the years has led us to here. That is a position where we are at the arse end of the table all through the season but keep the manager because he's basically 'one of us'.
We have got this badly wrong. It all feels like one step forward and two backwards.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 08, 2020, 01:15:07 AM
After Watford away, that was the moment. Plenty of us said it on here so no revisionism. Whole Jan window and the Winter break for search and getting to work. We’ll look back and say we blew it then.
We picked up 7 points in the next 4 league games so probably the same as if a new manager had come in. Of course we could've then had better results v Bournemouth, Spurs and Southampton and properly pulled clear.
The key was Chelsea. If we'd played that in Mid March and lost I think DS would've been sacked given we had 3 weeks until our next match. We all know what happened next.
Given we've only just cut been cut adrift now there would've been enough time for someone to come in and at least shake things up. Decision was made and we have to accept the consequences of it. Interesting the three that have stuck with managers for whole season is very likely now to be the bottom 3.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 08, 2020, 01:18:43 AM
Hard to see how anybody else would have been worse. Dismal Dean has been absolutely atrocious. Worse than Lambert.
Bit harsh. He gave us the fantastic run in and Wembley. I know Lambert didn't manage us in the championship but bar a decent end to 12/13 his reign seemed to be one new club low after the other. And it went on for f***ing ages. If DS leaves in the summer he'd still have managed us for a full year less than Lambert's 33 months here.
Will always have a soft spot for Dean due to watching Walsall when he first managed them and seeing him work his way up but he needs to be put out of his misery before things get much worse next season.
Post by: wince on July 08, 2020, 01:20:09 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on July 08, 2020, 06:29:04 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on July 08, 2020, 06:43:13 AM
Agree.lose against Man Utd and we're gone.We have already gone. Effectively 5 points from safety and cannot score goals.
Not quite, but I think we are on the brink. The Palace game is the glimmer of hope at the moment.
Palace at home is the game.
Win that and we’re in with a shot of staying up.
“It ain’t over till it’s over”
Yogi Berra 1973.
Lenny Kravitz 1991.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 08, 2020, 07:23:09 AM
All is not lost yet - I can still see us staying up :
Norwich and Bournemouth bottom 2
Watford : draw with Newcastle (H) and West Ham (A), lose to Man C (H) and Arsenal (A) - 33 pts
Villa: lose to Man U , beat Palace (H), draw with Everton (A) , lose to Arsenal (H), beat West Ham (A) - 34 pts
None of those results , in isolation, that unlikely.
Keep The Faith !!!
I’ve been clinging onto something like this and agree it could still happen. I think the major problem now in the mini league we’re in, is if we lose tomorrow, Watford play a day before us at the weekend. If Bruce’s boys don’t turn up, Watford will be 5 to 7 points ahead of us by the time we play palace. I think then it is literally win or bust on Sunday and I’m not sure this group of players will handle that pressure at the moment.
Or we could beat Man U, and Watford could lose to Newcastle.....dreamland
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 08, 2020, 07:27:09 AM
Post by: ROBBO on July 08, 2020, 08:12:25 AM
Post by: Ad@m on July 08, 2020, 08:29:58 AM
Hard to see how anybody else would have been worse. Dismal Dean has been absolutely atrocious. Worse than Lambert.
Come off it. I know it was late and you might have had a beer or two but that's demonstrably rubbish.
Smith holds the record for the most consecutive wins our club has ever had. He's managed a Villa side to a promotion and a win at Wembley.
Lambert holds plenty of records at the Villa, none of them good, including our heaviest ever defeat, and he sowed the seeds of our eventual relegation. He also went 12 games without a win, which Smith has never presided over, yet!
I don't think you'll find anyone who says Smith has done a good job this year but to say he's worse than Lambert is just silly.
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 08:45:39 AM
Hard to see how anybody else would have been worse. Dismal Dean has been absolutely atrocious. Worse than Lambert.
Do you mean this season or overall?
Post by: brian green on July 08, 2020, 09:08:47 AM
Post by: john e on July 08, 2020, 09:11:39 AM
we should have battered the posts down to get a goal
I remember people saying a point was ok and we were catching the others who were at the time doing worse
but the fixture list was there
we had 10 games from the restart to save ourselves
In reality only 6 because we are incapable of beating from the so called top 6
so that leaves you with 6 games to go shit or bust and we fucked it all up with tepid apathetic performances
I’m not one for stats but the one tells us where we are the most (apart from the league table)
is that we have failed to beat anyone in the top half of the league apart from Burnley and they are just 10th
and only took a point off two others
abysmal I’m afraid
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 09:14:16 AM
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 09:18:37 AM
Post by: OzVilla on July 08, 2020, 09:21:50 AM
Post by: TonyD on July 08, 2020, 09:30:41 AM
This is the classic way to get relegated.
We should be throwing the kitchen sink at ManU and all the remaining games.
To get something from the ManU game is absolutely the key to have even a glimmer of staying up.
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 08, 2020, 09:36:07 AM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 08, 2020, 09:39:02 AM
Seems like the plan rests on beating Palace and on the assumption that we won’t beat ManU.
This is the classic way to get relegated.
We should be throwing the kitchen sink at ManU and all the remaining games.
To get something from the ManU game is absolutely the key to have even a glimmer of staying up.
Yep, if we're going to go down, at least go down swinging. Shit or bust time.
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 09:41:39 AM
Seems like the plan rests on beating Palace and on the assumption that we won’t beat ManU.
This is the classic way to get relegated.
We should be throwing the kitchen sink at ManU and all the remaining games.
To get something from the ManU game is absolutely the key to have even a glimmer of staying up.
Yep, if we're going to go down, at least go down swinging. Shit or bust time.
Absolutely. It doesn't mean you have be any less organised in defence, but let's lay a glove on these shithouses tomorrow. It may not be enough, but lets have a fucking go.
Post by: Dick Edwards on July 08, 2020, 09:48:52 AM
A major handicap this season has been that our front three aren't Premier League standard but I can see them scoring freely in the Championship. Even Jota was a proven stand out creative performer for Brentford in the lower division. The rest of the squad is still young and capable enough to perform at the lower level.
Too many people, including many of our own fans are quick to forget the monumental task the club had last summer. Yes, we spent over £100m but we had to completely overhaul the squad over a period of two months because the vast majority of the squad that got us up were either loanees, players coming to the end of their careers or ones that simply wouldn't have been good enough. This season was always going to be a struggle following such huge change in personnel in such a short time. I don't blame Dean Smith and certainly wouldn't sack him. Relegation would be a setback but not a disaster.
Post by: ez on July 08, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 08, 2020, 01:07:35 PM
Usually, in a relegation battle, one team tends to pull away with just a few games to go, then suddenly drop like a stone and go down on the last day. Maybe Watford will "do a Blues"?
Post by: ROBBO on July 08, 2020, 01:43:34 PM
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 02:14:50 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 08, 2020, 02:44:13 PM
I quite liked the look of Brundia(sp).
He finds space in the middle with ease. Probably the closest we'll get to finding Grealish type replacement on the summer budget we'll have. Been linked with him in the past.
Post by: Steve67 on July 08, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
I quite liked the look of Brundia(sp).
He finds space in the middle with ease. Probably the closest we'll get to finding Grealish type replacement on the summer budget we'll have. Been linked with him in the past.
Buendia is one of the top midfielders for creativity apparently, this despite where Norwich are placed. Seems a decent player, although doesn't like to track back.
Post by: Mister E on July 08, 2020, 04:15:51 PM
I quite liked the look of Brundia(sp).Buendia was on the caption that JG tweeted after the Souness comments: he has some of the best assist stats in the League, even if they have not helped Naaaarwich to get anywhere.
Post by: mallo on July 08, 2020, 04:24:25 PM
Post by: gpbarr on July 08, 2020, 04:43:13 PM
1. Should never have appointed Terry as a coach - what we needed was top level coaching experience (and Premiership at that), not an apprentice
2. When the current owners purchased back in July 18, we should have invested in the squad then (or in the winter TW) with long term investments - instead we panicked and loaned too many players which then left us way too much to do last summer - it was always going to be an uphill struggle and the acquisitions we did make have not panned out well by and large
3. Expectations should have been better managed coming into this season - the interview with Dean when he said we were here to compete was a great sound bite, but showed a lack of awareness and experience - we never had the time or the squad to be anywhere other than in a dog fight (as results now evidence) and smarter, wiser heads would have realized we needed PL player experience as least for 1-2 years to get ourselves established.
In summary, too much naivety. Will the club learn from its relegation this time - I hope so. If it does, I'm genuinely positive about our chances of a quick-ish return and hopefully, we will be more stable the next time we come up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2020, 08:02:59 PM
Post by: Des Little on July 08, 2020, 08:06:30 PM
Post by: Ian. on July 08, 2020, 08:08:04 PM
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 08:08:31 PM
Come on Villa lets put the squeeze on.
Post by: ez on July 09, 2020, 10:16:34 PM
Post by: Legion on July 09, 2020, 10:25:51 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 09, 2020, 10:33:15 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on July 09, 2020, 10:36:28 PM
A shot on target would be nice. I just can't get my head round why Smith has not given Archer a chance. He is currently sitting at home as he has not been selected to train with the first team as the clueless one prefers Vassilev who still does not get a look-in over Davis or Samatta.
yep, its just baffling. Play Samatta, he's shows nothing at all. ok i'll try Davis, he shows nothing at all. okay i'll play Samatta and so on and so on. If you're 2 forwards have a goal scoring record that would shame a centre half then maybe try someone else ffs.
Post by: Legion on July 09, 2020, 10:37:47 PM
Post by: Dazvillain on July 09, 2020, 10:39:59 PM
I think DS will be ok to get us out of the championship again but it’s gonna take a couple of years. Even with the likes of our best half a dozen players sold I don’t feel the others are gutsy performers for 2 games a week ..... if DS has some choice of championship players to buy or get on loan without Suso he may be ok.. I don’t know why but Richard o Kelly pisses me off more than Deano.
Other than Luiz I can’t seem AelG , Trez stopping on top of the better players going, and the squad for championship doesn’t seem the same without fighters such as Snoddy, Albert, Chessie, Hutton, Tammy
Can see us down but think it’s gonna take longer to get back up this time
I really wonder what our owners are thinking ?
Post by: London Villan on July 09, 2020, 10:41:42 PM
Post by: itbrvilla on July 09, 2020, 10:42:21 PM
I accepted relegation ages ago. Just yesterday I said I want to see us win 1 game before the season ends. Realistically I'd like to see us score a goal before the end of the season.The club did too AFAIC. We've struggled since the start of d member and here we are 7 months later and thos in charge have done nothing. It's fucking negligence the bunch of charlatans.
P.s. I don't want Smith at this club now let alone next season. He has been a disaster and is miles out if his depth.
Post by: Rudy65 on July 09, 2020, 10:42:25 PM
My post from another thread is probably best suited here. I’d like to get an owners perspective at the end of the season and see if their plan has changed and how ?......
I think DS will be ok to get us out of the championship again but it’s gonna take a couple of years. Even with the likes of our best half a dozen players sold I don’t feel the others are gutsy performers for 2 games a week ..... if DS has some choice of championship players to buy or get on loan without Suso he may be ok.. I don’t know why but Richard o Kelly pisses me off more than Deano.
Other than Luiz I can’t seem AelG , Trez stopping on top of the better players going, and the squad for championship doesn’t seem the same without fighters such as Snoddy, Albert, Chessie, Hutton, Tammy
Can see us down but think it’s gonna take longer to get back up this time
I really wonder what our owners are thinking ?
DS cannot remains under any circumstances whatsoever. Amazed anyone is thinking otherwise
Post by: sickbeggar on July 09, 2020, 10:44:46 PM
Smith has lost it. He has Archer (18 years old starring for the U23s) sitting at home who has not even been chosen to train with the first team. He would offer far more than what we currently have. It beggars belief. I don't care if people think I am banging on about it. I know I am right. If he had been given a chance earlier on I am convinced we would not be where we are now. Just look at the videos of him in action on the H&V FB Page to see what he is capable of.
well it doesn't matter if you're right about him. its an alternative to something that we can plainly see isn't working so what have you lost? But if you don't even bother trying.............
Post by: colin69 on July 09, 2020, 10:45:26 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 09, 2020, 10:47:32 PM
Smith has lost it. He has Archer (18 years old starring for the U23s) sitting at home who has not even been chosen to train with the first team. He would offer far more than what we currently have. It beggars belief. I don't care if people think I am banging on about it. I know I am right. If he had been given a chance earlier on I am convinced we would not be where we are now. Just look at the videos of him in action on the H&V FB Page to see what he is capable of.Assuming there are no injuries or anything he cannot possibly be worse than the two duds we currently use.
Post by: Legion on July 09, 2020, 10:48:28 PM
Post by: Ad@m on July 09, 2020, 11:55:06 PM
Do the full parachute payments kick in again if we go down?
Yep.
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2020, 11:55:50 PM
It's not over. Yet.
You'll get very good odds on us staying up if you're confident.
Post by: Legion on July 09, 2020, 11:58:14 PM
Post by: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 02:03:38 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on July 10, 2020, 08:32:43 AM
How many times has there been young players chomping at the bit who would be bound to save us if only given a chance, but then have turned out to be pretty shit?Smith has lost it. He has Archer (18 years old starring for the U23s) sitting at home who has not even been chosen to train with the first team. He would offer far more than what we currently have. It beggars belief. I don't care if people think I am banging on about it. I know I am right. If he had been given a chance earlier on I am convinced we would not be where we are now. Just look at the videos of him in action on the H&V FB Page to see what he is capable of.Assuming there are no injuries or anything he cannot possibly be worse than the two duds we currently use.
Cameon Archer may well turn out to be a superstar, but the reason we are being relegated is not just because we didn't place all our chips on an untested 18 year old to save us.
Post by: Villan82 on July 10, 2020, 09:49:15 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:55:20 AM
After beating Watford at home I thought three more wins would do it. We have played a lot of football, against some pretty mediocre outfits since then, and haven't managed one win.
After Watford, we needed to then win 3 more games for safety. THREE. The form is disgraceful and heads will roll
Post by: Des Little on July 10, 2020, 09:57:43 AM
Post by: Ad@m on July 10, 2020, 10:37:42 AM
Post by: ez on July 10, 2020, 12:12:39 PM
I accepted relegation ages ago. Just yesterday I said I want to see us win 1 game before the season ends. Realistically I'd like to see us score a goal before the end of the season.The club did too AFAIC. We've struggled since the start of d member and here we are 7 months later and thos in charge have done nothing. It's fucking negligence the bunch of charlatans.
P.s. I don't want Smith at this club now let alone next season. He has been a disaster and is miles out if his depth.
The owners are behaving very strangely doing nothing. It pisses me right off that clubs like Everton and Southampton were struggling and acted upon it and now they're safe. West Ham look like surviving too.
Post by: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 12:20:41 PM
I accepted relegation ages ago. Just yesterday I said I want to see us win 1 game before the season ends. Realistically I'd like to see us score a goal before the end of the season.The club did too AFAIC. We've struggled since the start of d member and here we are 7 months later and thos in charge have done nothing. It's fucking negligence the bunch of charlatans.
P.s. I don't want Smith at this club now let alone next season. He has been a disaster and is miles out if his depth.
The owners are behaving very strangely doing nothing. It pisses me right off that clubs like Everton and Southampton were struggling and acted upon it and now they're safe. West Ham look like surviving too.
Have are you saying that Southampton reacted? By keeping their manager?
Post by: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 12:31:19 PM
Last year seemed like we had an unstoppable momentum to go up, this year it’s the complete opposite. I was so looking forward to mid table mediocrity too.
Post by: ez on July 10, 2020, 12:41:54 PM
I accepted relegation ages ago. Just yesterday I said I want to see us win 1 game before the season ends. Realistically I'd like to see us score a goal before the end of the season.The club did too AFAIC. We've struggled since the start of d member and here we are 7 months later and thos in charge have done nothing. It's fucking negligence the bunch of charlatans.
P.s. I don't want Smith at this club now let alone next season. He has been a disaster and is miles out if his depth.
The owners are behaving very strangely doing nothing. It pisses me right off that clubs like Everton and Southampton were struggling and acted upon it and now they're safe. West Ham look like surviving too.
Have are you saying that Southampton reacted? By keeping their manager?
My mistake.
Post by: mallo on July 10, 2020, 12:51:26 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 02:16:04 PM
We have at best a 5% chance of staying up. Doomsday scenario is Watford and West Ham win double on Saturday which would leave us 8 points off survival when you factor in GD and after Palace there's only 9 points left to play for.
Need to hope one of the Watford/West Ham will drop points and we start aswell as we did last night and hopefully score and taking things from there.
2 points off 17th with 3 games left and it's still in the balance.
Post by: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 02:29:48 PM
Post by: Smithy on July 10, 2020, 04:47:43 PM
Right now, it's probably the best we can hope for.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 12, 2020, 04:26:45 PM
Everton 1-2 Villa
West Ham 2-0 Watford
Villa 0-1 Arsenal
Watford 0-3 Man. City
Arsenal 2-1 Watford
West Ham 1-1 Villa
I think with that we stay up on 34 points and goals scored.
We must beat Everton given what they produced today and also West Ham beating Watford makes far more sense than the other two possible results as they'd be on the beach for final day.
There's still a chance.
Post by: Villan82 on July 12, 2020, 04:28:08 PM
Post by: Damo70 on July 12, 2020, 04:31:02 PM
Let's try again:
Everton 1-2 Villa
West Ham 2-0 Watford
Villa 0-1 Arsenal
Watford 0-3 Man. City
Arsenal 2-1 Watford
West Ham 1-1 Villa
I think with that we stay up on 34 points and goals scored.
We must beat Everton given what they produced today and also West Ham beating Watford makes far more sense than the other two possible results as they'd be on the beach for final day.
There's still a chance.
You might be right but I was thinking a West Ham/Watford draw with them both dropping two points might be the best result for us.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 12, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
Let's try again:
Everton 1-2 Villa
West Ham 2-0 Watford
Villa 0-1 Arsenal
Watford 0-3 Man. City
Arsenal 2-1 Watford
West Ham 1-1 Villa
I think with that we stay up on 34 points and goals scored.
We must beat Everton given what they produced today and also West Ham beating Watford makes far more sense than the other two possible results as they'd be on the beach for final day.
There's still a chance.
You might be right but I was thinking a West Ham/Watford draw with them both dropping two points might be the best result for us.
No not for me. Watford could easily lose their last three and we need points total to be as low as possible so that would be 34 and hopefully Watford would get at least one heavy defeat. We're 6 behind them in GD.
With a win West Ham would be all but safe and if we only were on 33 points going into final day they couldn't go down so you'd like to think they wouldn't bother much.
We have far more chance of getting a draw/win at West Ham on last day if they're already safe, think that's a pretty logical conclusion.
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 04:46:56 PM
Post by: walsall villain on July 12, 2020, 04:50:58 PM
100% agree. We have a good chance last day if West Ham are safe, still need another win from next 2, at least there is still hopeLet's try again:
Everton 1-2 Villa
West Ham 2-0 Watford
Villa 0-1 Arsenal
Watford 0-3 Man. City
Arsenal 2-1 Watford
West Ham 1-1 Villa
I think with that we stay up on 34 points and goals scored.
We must beat Everton given what they produced today and also West Ham beating Watford makes far more sense than the other two possible results as they'd be on the beach for final day.
There's still a chance.
You might be right but I was thinking a West Ham/Watford draw with them both dropping two points might be the best result for us.
No not for me. Watford could easily lose their last three and we need points total to be as low as possible so that would be 34 and hopefully Watford would get at least one heavy defeat. We're 6 behind them in GD.
With a win West Ham would be all but safe and if we only were on 33 points going into final day they couldn't go down so you'd like to think they wouldn't bother much.
We have far more chance of getting a draw/win at West Ham on last day if they're already safe, think that's a pretty logical conclusion.
Post by: CT on July 12, 2020, 04:51:00 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 12, 2020, 04:55:49 PM
A draw or Watford win leaves in our own hands, West ham winning would mean we could beat them and still not get promoted if Watford get a win at Arsenal.
If Watford beat Arsenal fair play. Something we've not done all season. We also play Arsenal a few days before so will have one final chance to put that sorry record right. David Luiz will probably play like McGrath v us.
The task is harder though. We would need to win two games to stay up whereas if Watford lost all three a win and a draw may be enough.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 12, 2020, 05:00:11 PM
A draw or Watford win leaves in our own hands, West ham winning would mean we could beat them and still not get promoted if Watford get a win at Arsenal.
Promoted?
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 12, 2020, 05:00:39 PM
Post by: Des Little on July 12, 2020, 05:09:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 05:19:12 PM
A draw or Watford win leaves in our own hands, West ham winning would mean we could beat them and still not get promoted if Watford get a win at Arsenal.
Promoted?
Yeah, sorry, was in the middle of a chat with my baggie supporting cousin when I was writing that, telling her how funny it'd be if they fuck it up.
Post by: Risso on July 12, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Post by: Villan82 on July 12, 2020, 05:31:41 PM
Post by: TaxDodger on July 12, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
Post by: Villan82 on July 12, 2020, 05:36:00 PM
I think a West Ham win against Watford might be the best result for us really. Watford have two very difficult matches after that, and West Ham being safe before the last day of the season could help us.
I think so too.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 12, 2020, 05:44:29 PM
I think a West Ham win against Watford might be the best result for us really. Watford have two very difficult matches after that, and West Ham being safe before the last day of the season could help us.
Agreed. Draw would be the worst result
Post by: Risso on July 12, 2020, 05:47:01 PM
I think a West Ham win against Watford might be the best result for us really. Watford have two very difficult matches after that, and West Ham being safe before the last day of the season could help us.
Agreed. Draw would be the worst result
I don't think so. Keeps them both in the shit, as long as we beat Everton.
Post by: Villan82 on July 12, 2020, 05:51:17 PM
I think a West Ham win against Watford might be the best result for us really. Watford have two very difficult matches after that, and West Ham being safe before the last day of the season could help us.
Agreed. Draw would be the worst result
I don't think so. Keeps them both in the shit, as long as we beat Everton.
Pushes the minimum required to 35 points. I would prefer it if Watford lost.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 12, 2020, 05:56:25 PM
All means nowt if we lose to Everton. We simply must perform like today and despite massive reservations about Trez all season, simply must be same starting 11.
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 06:00:39 PM
I think a West Ham win against Watford might be the best result for us really. Watford have two very difficult matches after that, and West Ham being safe before the last day of the season could help us.
Agreed. Draw would be the worst result
I don't think so. Keeps them both in the shit, as long as we beat Everton.
Pushes the minimum required to 35 points. I would prefer it if Watford lost.
That doesn't make much difference to us though. In fact if we beat Everton then I don't care what the result in that game is because we'll have given ourselves a chance regardless of what else happens and that's all we can hope for now, if the game kicks off on the last day with us in charge of our own destiny then I'm happy.
Post by: Steve67 on July 12, 2020, 06:03:23 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 12, 2020, 06:03:36 PM
I think a West Ham win against Watford might be the best result for us really. Watford have two very difficult matches after that, and West Ham being safe before the last day of the season could help us.
Agreed. Draw would be the worst result
I don't think so. Keeps them both in the shit, as long as we beat Everton.
Pushes the minimum required to 35 points. I would prefer it if Watford lost.
That doesn't make much difference to us though. In fact if we beat Everton then I don't care what the result in that game is because we'll have given ourselves a chance regardless of what else happens and that's all we can hope for now, if the game kicks off on the last day with us in charge of our own destiny then I'm happy.
I'd go along with that. In fact I'd take not being relegated already before the last day.
Post by: Risso on July 12, 2020, 06:09:26 PM
I'd go along with that. In fact I'd take not being relegated already before the last day.
Is there a set of results that can happen that would mean both us and West Ham only need a point on the last day? That would be quite good I reckon.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 12, 2020, 06:10:55 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 12, 2020, 06:13:14 PM
I'd go along with that. In fact I'd take not being relegated already before the last day.
Is there a set of results that can happen that would mean both us and West Ham only need a point on the last day? That would be quite good I reckon.
Only if Watford’s goal difference took an absolute hammering and/or ours improved significantly, I think.
Post by: john e on July 12, 2020, 06:13:58 PM
Man Utd v West Ham
Watford v Man City
Bournemouth v Liecester
Villa v Arsenal
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 06:17:34 PM
I'd go along with that. In fact I'd take not being relegated already before the last day.
Is there a set of results that can happen that would mean both us and West Ham only need a point on the last day? That would be quite good I reckon.
The closest you could get would be us getting 2 wins and scoring about 4-5 between them, watford losing both by about the same and West ham losing 1. That's be us on 36 needing a point to be 3 in front of Watford and with enough positive goal difference to make them need a big win, with West Ham happy with a point to make themselves absolutely guaranteed to be safe.
I can't see it.
Post by: Villan82 on July 12, 2020, 06:20:47 PM
I'd go along with that. In fact I'd take not being relegated already before the last day.
Is there a set of results that can happen that would mean both us and West Ham only need a point on the last day? That would be quite good I reckon.
Now you're talking.
Post by: Exeter 77 on July 12, 2020, 06:22:49 PM
Post by: Ads on July 12, 2020, 06:23:17 PM
Reliant on Watford losing to West Ham, to put another side on the beach against us and us beating Everton and one of the others.
Hope.
Post by: OCD on July 12, 2020, 06:25:06 PM
Post by: OCD on July 12, 2020, 06:26:50 PM
We can do this. Everton, utter shite, Arsenal, season over and away from home where they're weak.
Reliant on Watford losing to West Ham, to put another side on the beach against us and us beating Everton and one of the others.
Hope.
In a post, that sums up what a win does for you. Before it, no-one can see where the next win will come from then afterwards, it's all changed.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 12, 2020, 06:29:04 PM
We can do this. Everton, utter shite, Arsenal, season over and away from home where they're weak.
Reliant on Watford losing to West Ham, to put another side on the beach against us and us beating Everton and one of the others.
Hope.
In a post, that sums up what a win does for you. Before it, no-one can see where the next win will come from then afterwards, it's all changed.
What would Saunders say?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 12, 2020, 06:31:29 PM
all the penultimate matches are hard for everyone but I don’t think I’d swap
Man Utd v West Ham
Watford v Man City
Bournemouth v Liecester
Villa v Arsenal
Bournemouth are about to play Leicester, their penultimate game is Southampton at home.
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 12, 2020, 06:33:33 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 12, 2020, 06:34:56 PM
I think a West Ham win against Watford might be the best result for us really. Watford have two very difficult matches after that, and West Ham being safe before the last day of the season could help us.
Agreed. Draw would be the worst result
I don't think so. Keeps them both in the shit, as long as we beat Everton.
Yep, with the gd having gotten away from us a bit again after reeling it in, us getting a point from somewhere doesn't help. Better to keep more teams in the mire. I'd rather it be in our own hands against the spammers than not, given a choice.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 12, 2020, 06:36:47 PM
Ideally us vs West Ham will be like Austria vs West Germany in ‘82Forget what I've just said, this^ instead.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on July 12, 2020, 06:38:17 PM
Post by: themossman on July 12, 2020, 06:38:24 PM
I think I’d rather west ham get clear and don’t turn up against us than a winner takes all game against them, which they would win.
Post by: themossman on July 12, 2020, 06:40:55 PM
Are we all discounting Brighton? Stranger things have happened.
The points required is definitely moving.
On the other hand people are also discounting Bournemouth! Imagine if we catch one of Watford/West Ham and Bournemouth get past us.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 12, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Are we all discounting Brighton? Stranger things have happened.
Their GD is still 11 better than ours despite the trashing they got yesterday. They were safe the minute they beat Arsenal in my mind.
We need 37 points to finish above them (that's if they don't claim another point which is very unlikely with the three games they have left). If we're getting that amount of points I'm very confident we'll be finishing above Watford.
Post by: OCD on July 12, 2020, 06:43:16 PM
Ideally us vs West Ham will be like Austria vs West Germany in ‘82
I was 1 year old. Presumably Austria basically let West Germany beat them?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 12, 2020, 06:45:47 PM
Ideally us vs West Ham will be like Austria vs West Germany in ‘82
I was 1 year old. Presumably Austria basically let West Germany beat them?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 12, 2020, 06:47:34 PM
Ideally us vs West Ham will be like Austria vs West Germany in ‘82
I was 1 year old. Presumably Austria basically let West Germany beat them?
Passing the ball outside the centre circle was basically a no go area in the second half.
Post by: OCD on July 12, 2020, 06:48:51 PM
Ideally us vs West Ham will be like Austria vs West Germany in ‘82
I was 1 year old. Presumably Austria basically let West Germany beat them?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n
Thanks PWS and SHQ. Least they could do after stealing our kits :).
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 12, 2020, 06:51:05 PM
Post by: Holte L2 on July 12, 2020, 08:18:27 PM
Pretty tempted to go up to Scouseland for a beer and watch in a pub . Is that mental ?
I've also been thinking about it as well but we are shielding the wife until August so best not.
Post by: Steve67 on July 12, 2020, 08:24:30 PM
Pretty tempted to go up to Scouseland for a beer and watch in a pub . Is that mental ?
I've also been thinking about it as well but we are shielding the wife until August so best not.
It's a really good idea to shield the wife from Scousers, probably well beyond August though mate.
Post by: CT on July 12, 2020, 08:31:43 PM
Post by: themossman on July 12, 2020, 08:48:28 PM
We’ve won our most winnable game, that’s all for now. We probably needed to win 3 of our last 4 and even then it could have been out of our hands. If we do that and we still go down, we’ll, it will be a pisser but it’s our own fault. Nothing’s changed, slim chance of survival, variables outside our control
Post by: themossman on July 12, 2020, 08:50:38 PM
Post by: SW9-VILLA on July 12, 2020, 08:51:53 PM
Post by: aev on July 12, 2020, 08:51:54 PM
I don’t think it changes much.
We’ve won our most winnable game, that’s all for now. We probably needed to win 3 of our last 4 and even then it could have been out of our hands. If we do that and we still go down, we’ll, it will be a pisser but it’s our own fault. Nothing’s changed, slim chance of survival, variables outside our control
Yeah I agree. I thought we’d need to win 3 out of 4, so now 2 from 3. Bournemouth have Man City, Southampton and Everton away. If we win 2 out of our last 3 will 36 points be enough?
Post by: themossman on July 12, 2020, 08:54:14 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 12, 2020, 08:55:14 PM
Suppose one way of looking at things is we need minimum 34 points to survive and Bournemouth could still lose 2 of their last 3 given one of those is Man. City away. Southampton will want to put them down aswell and they're good away (mind you so are Palace).
They were all but down even with a draw.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 12, 2020, 08:55:35 PM
Post by: themossman on July 12, 2020, 08:57:07 PM
Post by: eamonn on July 12, 2020, 08:58:51 PM
Post by: rougegorge on July 12, 2020, 08:59:27 PM
The promising factor is that Southampton are a good, professional side.You'd have hoped the same could've been said of Leicester until that second half. They served up something even worse than we have done this season.
Post by: Villan82 on July 12, 2020, 09:00:54 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 12, 2020, 09:07:35 PM
The promising factor is that Southampton are a good, professional side.
Ings should enjoy himself against that Bournemouth backline. I only had a passing interest in game until it got to 1-1 and honestly thought Leicester had scored another goal, it had the air of them being 2 or 3 up, they were so comfortable in the first half and wasted so many chances.
The punishment for them is they'll probably miss out on even finishing 5th now.
Post by: Ad@m on July 12, 2020, 09:44:40 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 12, 2020, 10:16:37 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 12, 2020, 10:24:42 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 13, 2020, 12:21:14 AM
That Leicester second half was so bad it should trigger an investigation from the Gambling Commission!
Perhaps they'll look back in a few years as their Stoke moment. They're choking top 4 like we did back then.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 13, 2020, 01:40:13 AM
Post by: adrenachrome on July 13, 2020, 02:56:21 AM
We are now beginning to see some strange results, Motivation, injuries and fatigue will play a huge part in the last few games. The players were not in condition to play so many games in such a short period.
Yes. Several teams were sluggish for 2 to 3 games and then sprang to life and rediscovered some sharpness.
I don't think any team is back to pre-break levels, including Man U.
At least we haven't any incurred major injuries.
Post by: ROBBO on July 13, 2020, 04:17:34 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 13, 2020, 05:56:49 AM
and some started well and are looking jaded.We are now beginning to see some strange results, Motivation, injuries and fatigue will play a huge part in the last few games. The players were not in condition to play so many games in such a short period.
Yes. Several teams were sluggish for 2 to 3 games and then sprang to life and rediscovered some sharpness.
I don't think any team is back to pre-break levels, including Man U.
At least we haven't any incurred major injuries.
Having key players available for the next 3 games will be critical for the relegation threatened teams.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 13, 2020, 09:12:33 AM
That Leicester second half was so bad it should trigger an investigation from the Gambling Commission!
I thought similar, it reminded me of Brazil being mauled by Germany in the WC SF where you actually question how professional players can perform so badly.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 13, 2020, 11:05:12 AM
- Man City beat Bournemouth by 4 goals
- we win v Everton
- West Ham beat Watford
- Southampton don’t lose v Bournemouth
Post by: maidstonevillain on July 13, 2020, 11:07:36 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 13, 2020, 11:10:02 AM
Post by: Ads on July 13, 2020, 11:21:43 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 13, 2020, 11:31:39 AM
Be surprised if Bournemouth don't get beat against Man City.
These rash predictions will be your downfall.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 13, 2020, 12:42:19 PM
Post by: Des Little on July 13, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
Post by: Ads on July 13, 2020, 12:49:41 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 12:55:46 PM
Man City x2 wins (Bournemouth and Watford)
Southampton x2 wins (Bournemouth and Brighton)
Eve x1 win (Bournemouth)
Newc x1 win (Brighton)
Man U x1 (West Ham)
Arse x1 win (Watford)
Burnley x1 win (Brighton)
Brighton therefore have Southampton, Newcastle and Burnley. You'd imagine they'll pick up something in there.
West Ham have Watford, Arsenal and Villa.
Watford have West Ham, Man City and Arsenal.
Bournemouth have Man City, Southampton and Everton
Villa have Everton, Arsenal and West Ham.
Out of those games, you'd least want Watford's run in, they'l be shitting it, though they've won their last two.
Brighton's would be regarded as best (particularly as they have more points anyway)
West Ham will feel good about their's as it's all in their hands, though if Watford beat them.....
Bournemouth will feel after yesterday that they can do it with their last two games.
And we're still in there if we can beat Everton.
I'd thought Brighton may have an outside chance of being caught but they'll be ok. This could go in any number of ways, the bookies have it like this....
Bournemouth 1/10
Villa 1/9
Watford 7/2
West Ham 7/1
Brighton 80/1
I'm surprised at West Ham being as far out as they are.
Post by: rob_bridge on July 13, 2020, 01:05:18 PM
Post by: Damo70 on July 13, 2020, 01:20:14 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 13, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
i'm more inclined to go for Watford beat West Ham.
Not for me. There's a chance Watford will lose their last three and their GD could take a hammering so 34 points could be enough to finish above them.
For the last game with West Ham I'd rather go there with them safe or all but safe and just content to play out a point with us. That's far more likely if they win the game with their GD.
One wildcard is Bournemouth now. After last night's second half I don't know what to expect from them v Southampton and Everton. One boost is Ake got injured first half so their defence is still pretty weak.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 13, 2020, 01:32:00 PM
We could be safe after Arsenal. Requires us to win our next two but given I was thinking we could well be down on Thursday it's a nice difference. Incredible how much a win inspires confidence. Thursday is so big. Winnable game in the circumstances, got to keep the momentum going.
There is a formula where we could be safe after Arsenal? Even if we won our next two and Watford lost their next two we'd be on 36 and Watford would still be on 34. We'd be in a great position but still have work to do on the final day.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 13, 2020, 01:45:51 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 02:12:24 PM
In my own mind I had already removed Brighton from the relegation equation a few games back. Around the same time I had totally written off Norwich. I had narrowed it down to any two from four (Watford, Bournemouth, West Ham, Villa) for the last few games.
So had I until yesterday, then after looking at the games, I have done again.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 13, 2020, 02:17:16 PM
We are more than likely going to need to win our next 3 to stay up and that is unlikely,if you truly believe that we can, I suggest you stick as much as you can afford on Us. At 5 to 1, I doubt that many will be taking that on..
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 13, 2020, 04:53:40 PM
Post by: Ads on July 13, 2020, 07:38:56 PM
So West Ham to beat Watford.
Watford to.then lose to Man City and Arsenal.
Us to beat Everton and Arsenal and avoid defeat final day.
Job...jobbed.
As long as Bournemouth only draw at best with Southampton, as they're likely to get hammered the weekend away at Man City.
Post by: Big Ming on July 13, 2020, 08:00:34 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 13, 2020, 08:05:15 PM
I have a horrible feeling that an engineered draw will be all West Ham and Watford need.
A draw suits neither of them. Bournemouth and, to a lesser extent, Villa have winnable games. Either club (Watford or Wham) would be mad to limit their points total through choice.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 13, 2020, 08:11:00 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 13, 2020, 08:12:36 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 13, 2020, 08:13:59 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 13, 2020, 09:05:17 PM
Yep, that Watford v Arsenal game scares me. Never rely on Arsenal.Watford will win. Welbeck will score the winner.
Post by: Rory on July 13, 2020, 09:32:26 PM
Yep, that Watford v Arsenal game scares me. Never rely on Arsenal.
Unless they're playing us. They're normally a pretty safe bet then, the tarquin wankers.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 13, 2020, 09:34:47 PM
Yep, that Watford v Arsenal game scares me. Never rely on Arsenal.
Unless they're playing us. They're normally a pretty safe bet then, the tarquin wankers.
Of course.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 13, 2020, 09:43:39 PM
Yep, that Watford v Arsenal game scares me. Never rely on Arsenal.Watford will win. Deeney will score the winner.
Fixed.
Post by: johnc on July 13, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
We were 80/1 to get promoted on 1st March last season. We then beat Derby 4-0 and dropped to 33/1, at which point my mate lumped on us. He was particularly happy at Wembley after the PO Final.8 of us went for a few pints after WBA beat us at VP. We put £80 on the Villa to go up ay 50/1. We enjoyed wembley as well. There have ben a few suggestions that we put another 80 on us to stay up.
Post by: in exile on July 14, 2020, 07:14:19 AM
Just wire me the money instead.We were 80/1 to get promoted on 1st March last season. We then beat Derby 4-0 and dropped to 33/1, at which point my mate lumped on us. He was particularly happy at Wembley after the PO Final.8 of us went for a few pints after WBA beat us at VP. We put £80 on the Villa to go up ay 50/1. We enjoyed wembley as well. There have ben a few suggestions that we put another 80 on us to stay up.
Let me know when you want my bank details.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2020, 07:49:17 AM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2020, 09:57:22 AM
I am surprised the Bookies are still in business
Have you seen Damo's record?
Post by: lovejoy on July 14, 2020, 10:35:42 AM
We were 80/1 to get promoted on 1st March last season. We then beat Derby 4-0 and dropped to 33/1, at which point my mate lumped on us. He was particularly happy at Wembley after the PO Final.8 of us went for a few pints after WBA beat us at VP. We put £80 on the Villa to go up ay 50/1. We enjoyed wembley as well. There have ben a few suggestions that we put another 80 on us to stay up.
I watched this market closely and never saw us getting near 80/1, which bookies did you use?
Post by: Richard E on July 14, 2020, 10:52:46 AM
I am surprised the Bookies are still in business
Have you seen Damo's record?
Yes. It's a Queen album.
Post by: The Edge on July 14, 2020, 11:18:31 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2020, 11:50:01 AM
It will still take a monumental effort from the lads to still be in with a chance of survival against West Ham. It will also require other results to go our way. But there's still hope. On the flipside relegation would give us parachute payments to rebuild the squad plus a huge amount from the sale of Jack is available for us to spend as he's a home grown player. Then we do still have wealthy owners who will have watched Man City smash ffp and they will be looking at the implications for clubs like us. So stay up and build the squad or get relegated and still be in a good position to rebuild. Either way I'm still optimistic for a bright future at Villa Park. It feels nothing like the gloomy days of our previous relegation and if we do go down I'll be backing us with a hefty bet on an immediate return.
I'm not sure I'd say monumental effort to be honest a win and a defeat in the next 2 would almost certainly see us still within 2 points of safety going into the last game.
Post by: The Edge on July 14, 2020, 12:10:08 PM
Quite a big effort then? Considering Palace was only our 3rd win this year?It will still take a monumental effort from the lads to still be in with a chance of survival against West Ham. It will also require other results to go our way. But there's still hope. On the flipside relegation would give us parachute payments to rebuild the squad plus a huge amount from the sale of Jack is available for us to spend as he's a home grown player. Then we do still have wealthy owners who will have watched Man City smash ffp and they will be looking at the implications for clubs like us. So stay up and build the squad or get relegated and still be in a good position to rebuild. Either way I'm still optimistic for a bright future at Villa Park. It feels nothing like the gloomy days of our previous relegation and if we do go down I'll be backing us with a hefty bet on an immediate return.
I'm not sure I'd say monumental effort to be honest a win and a defeat in the next 2 would almost certainly see us still within 2 points of safety going into the last game.
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2020, 12:36:03 PM
Quite a big effort then? Considering Palace was only our 3rd win this year?It will still take a monumental effort from the lads to still be in with a chance of survival against West Ham. It will also require other results to go our way. But there's still hope. On the flipside relegation would give us parachute payments to rebuild the squad plus a huge amount from the sale of Jack is available for us to spend as he's a home grown player. Then we do still have wealthy owners who will have watched Man City smash ffp and they will be looking at the implications for clubs like us. So stay up and build the squad or get relegated and still be in a good position to rebuild. Either way I'm still optimistic for a bright future at Villa Park. It feels nothing like the gloomy days of our previous relegation and if we do go down I'll be backing us with a hefty bet on an immediate return.
I'm not sure I'd say monumental effort to be honest a win and a defeat in the next 2 would almost certainly see us still within 2 points of safety going into the last game.
quite big I can accept, monumental was the term I disagreed with.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 14, 2020, 12:50:12 PM
We were 80/1 to get promoted on 1st March last season. We then beat Derby 4-0 and dropped to 33/1, at which point my mate lumped on us. He was particularly happy at Wembley after the PO Final.8 of us went for a few pints after WBA beat us at VP. We put £80 on the Villa to go up ay 50/1. We enjoyed wembley as well. There have ben a few suggestions that we put another 80 on us to stay up.
I watched this market closely and never saw us getting near 80/1, which bookies did you use?
It wasn't me, it was my mate who took the bet at 33/1 who told me that. He may have exaggerated or just been mistaken, and it may have been closer to 50/1.
Either way it’s more of a long shot than us staying up this season!
Post by: garyellis on July 14, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
It will still take a monumental effort from the lads to still be in with a chance of survival against West Ham. It will also require other results to go our way. But there's still hope. On the flipside relegation would give us parachute payments to rebuild the squad plus a huge amount from the sale of Jack is available for us to spend as he's a home grown player. Then we do still have wealthy owners who will have watched Man City smash ffp and they will be looking at the implications for clubs like us. So stay up and build the squad or get relegated and still be in a good position to rebuild. Either way I'm still optimistic for a bright future at Villa Park. It feels nothing like the gloomy days of our previous relegation and if we do go down I'll be backing us with a hefty bet on an immediate return.This is where I am now - the end of the world it is not and nothing like the position we were in last time we got relegated
Post by: JJ-AV on July 14, 2020, 01:02:09 PM
It's doable and I still feel like it's in our hands, even if it technically isn't.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 14, 2020, 01:03:27 PM
They play Liverpool tomorrow then Man City on Saturday night in the FA Cup semi final. With a bit of luck they will be tired and demoralised with nothing to play for come next Tuesday.
Just means that we’d still have hope even if we fail to beat Everton on Thursday.
Post by: The Edge on July 14, 2020, 01:23:59 PM
My bad.Quite a big effort then? Considering Palace was only our 3rd win this year?It will still take a monumental effort from the lads to still be in with a chance of survival against West Ham. It will also require other results to go our way. But there's still hope. On the flipside relegation would give us parachute payments to rebuild the squad plus a huge amount from the sale of Jack is available for us to spend as he's a home grown player. Then we do still have wealthy owners who will have watched Man City smash ffp and they will be looking at the implications for clubs like us. So stay up and build the squad or get relegated and still be in a good position to rebuild. Either way I'm still optimistic for a bright future at Villa Park. It feels nothing like the gloomy days of our previous relegation and if we do go down I'll be backing us with a hefty bet on an immediate return.
I'm not sure I'd say monumental effort to be honest a win and a defeat in the next 2 would almost certainly see us still within 2 points of safety going into the last game.
quite big I can accept, monumental was the term I disagreed with.
Post by: ROBBO on July 14, 2020, 01:37:44 PM
Post by: Big Ming on July 14, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
Post by: cdward on July 14, 2020, 02:15:16 PM
Yep, that Watford v Arsenal game scares me. Never rely on Arsenal.Watford will win. Deeney will score the winner.
Fixed.
Thank McGrath we don't have to play Watford last game, you could bet your house on Deeney sending us packing.
Post by: Drummond on July 14, 2020, 02:28:07 PM
I’m slightly more confident we could beat Arsenal having just seen their fixtures - it could be a good time to play them.
They play Liverpool tomorrow then Man City on Saturday night in the FA Cup semi final. With a bit of luck they will be tired and demoralised with nothing to play for come next Tuesday.
Just means that we’d still have hope even if we fail to beat Everton on Thursday.
Extra Time and Pens v Man City before a win would have them excited but tired and focused on the cup.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 14, 2020, 02:58:28 PM
I’m slightly more confident we could beat Arsenal having just seen their fixtures - it could be a good time to play them.
They play Liverpool tomorrow then Man City on Saturday night in the FA Cup semi final. With a bit of luck they will be tired and demoralised with nothing to play for come next Tuesday.
Just means that we’d still have hope even if we fail to beat Everton on Thursday.
For some reason I thought we were playing at weekend and cups were in the midweek. Even better then as Thursday-Tuesday is a good rest period so we can go full pelt in the Arsenal game and Man. City game will probably take a fair bit out of Arsenal.
Post by: eamonn on July 15, 2020, 12:05:51 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 15, 2020, 01:14:07 AM
There's an awful lot of straw clutching on here.
Think the size of the task is reflected in the fact that even with
two wins in the next two games, we would still be taking it to the last day.
Post by: ROBBO on July 15, 2020, 08:35:20 AM
Post by: eamonn on July 15, 2020, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: Big Ming link=topic=60603.msg3791071#msg3791071 date=1594731
493
493
There's an awful lot of straw clutching on here.
What do you expect?!
Post by: Risso on July 15, 2020, 09:12:32 AM
There's an awful lot of straw clutching on here.
At least we've still got some straws to clutch on to.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 15, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
There's an awful lot of straw clutching on here.
Necessary at this stage as we don't have the comfort of other teams getting 12 point deductions.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 15, 2020, 11:11:10 AM
If we can beat Everton and it's a big if the momentum going into the Arsenal game would be huge.
If West Ham beat Watford it's conceivable that 2 draws and a win on the last day would be enough. Even a draw and a win might be enough although not the way I'd like to do it.
Post by: Steve67 on July 15, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
Post by: gpbarr on July 15, 2020, 05:33:37 PM
We have to take care of our own business and rely only on ourselves. If Leicester are anything to go by, we cannot rely on anyone else.
Yep. Lots of permutations but what's certain is that if we don't focus and take care of our own business tomorrow (and just getting two wins on the bounce would be dramatic after our run of form), it wont matter much what happens elsewhere.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2020, 10:09:11 AM
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on July 16, 2020, 11:55:12 AM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 16, 2020, 01:02:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2020, 02:23:53 PM
Post by: IFWaters on July 16, 2020, 08:02:59 PM
Brighton could do that tonight and West Ham or watford could get to 37 tomorrow.
Post by: rougegorge on July 16, 2020, 08:14:05 PM
I think I would probably prefer West Ham to win tomorrow and be safe and keep Watford under pressure as they have two tough games afterwards.
However beating Arsenal at home for the first time in over 20 years is a big ask for this team, let alone following it up with another at West Ham.
Post by: aev on July 16, 2020, 08:23:19 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 16, 2020, 08:23:31 PM
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:28:44 PM
I sometimes feel like I'm going mad but why oh why do people want West Ham to win so we're relying on two different teams to do us a favour in beating Watford? We have to want it in our hands as much as we can which means being able to catch West Ham with a win on the last day.
As Watford as just as likely to get turned over against Man City and Arsenal and it makes West Ham safe come last day...bar a 10 goal swing.
We have to win our last 2. Just have to. But now West Ham have to win tomorrow. It would probably mean we're out the bottom 3 going into the last day.
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 08:31:50 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 16, 2020, 08:39:53 PM
I sometimes feel like I'm going mad but why oh why do people want West Ham to win so we're relying on two different teams to do us a favour in beating Watford? We have to want it in our hands as much as we can which means being able to catch West Ham with a win on the last day.
As Watford as just as likely to get turned over against Man City and Arsenal and it makes West Ham safe come last day...bar a 10 goal swing.
We have to win our last 2. Just have to. But now West Ham have to win tomorrow. It would probably mean we're out the bottom 3 going into the last day.
We'd need a six goal swing with Watford to go into last day out of bottom 3. Ultimately whatever happens tomorrow has its plus points but winning on the last day and still going down would be a choker.
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
I sometimes feel like I'm going mad but why oh why do people want West Ham to win so we're relying on two different teams to do us a favour in beating Watford? We have to want it in our hands as much as we can which means being able to catch West Ham with a win on the last day.
As Watford as just as likely to get turned over against Man City and Arsenal and it makes West Ham safe come last day...bar a 10 goal swing.
We have to win our last 2. Just have to. But now West Ham have to win tomorrow. It would probably mean we're out the bottom 3 going into the last day.
We'd need a six goal swing with Watford to go into last day out of bottom 3. Ultimately whatever happens tomorrow has its plus points but winning on the last day and still going down would be a choker.
It would. Odd goal win against Arsenal and if they're losing 2 on the spin, including a game against Man City, that's a good possibility.
Who knows.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 16, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
We really don’t deserve to stay up.
You always finish where you deserve.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 16, 2020, 08:42:46 PM
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:43:22 PM
Post by: IFWaters on July 16, 2020, 08:44:49 PM
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:46:23 PM
Post by: aev on July 16, 2020, 08:47:23 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 16, 2020, 08:50:01 PM
You would hope that at some stage Everton might do “something”. On today’s basis, Ancelotti was no better than Smith.
And yet he made the substitutions that changed the game?
Post by: Ad@m on July 16, 2020, 08:51:52 PM
You would hope that at some stage Everton might do “something”. On today’s basis, Ancelotti was no better than Smith.
And yet he made the substitutions that changed the game?
To be fair, Smith could've made the substitution that won the game if El Ghazi wasn't so shit!
Post by: IFWaters on July 16, 2020, 08:52:45 PM
west ham v watford friday
bournemouth v soton sunday
watford play man city on tuesday BEFORE we play arsenal
west ham play man u on wednesday
so basically we will know before we play on tuesday what we need to do to catch up with bouremouth and watford (or not)
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 08:54:31 PM
Post by: CT on July 16, 2020, 08:55:36 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 16, 2020, 09:57:23 PM
Post by: Des Little on July 16, 2020, 10:11:16 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 16, 2020, 10:15:04 PM
A loser and that's a small chance 35 points could be enough.
Post by: Richie on July 16, 2020, 10:22:07 PM
We certainly need a winner in tomorrow's game (would still prefer West Ham) now. Draw and we'd have to win the final two games.
A loser and that's a small chance 35 points could be enough.
Agree that we need a winner tomorrow night but I’m not sure a West Ham win is best for us. If Watford beat them and then they lose at Old Trafford which you would expect, a point against Arsenal leaves it in our hands to finish above West Ham.
That said, I think Bournemouth are going to pick up points in the last 2.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 16, 2020, 10:29:29 PM
We certainly need a winner in tomorrow's game (would still prefer West Ham) now. Draw and we'd have to win the final two games.
A loser and that's a small chance 35 points could be enough.
Agree that we need a winner tomorrow night but I’m not sure a West Ham win is best for us. If Watford beat them and then they lose at Old Trafford which you would expect, a point against Arsenal leaves it in our hands to finish above West Ham.
That said, I think Bournemouth are going to pick up points in the last 2.
I think we've got far more chance of beating West Ham final day if they're already safe. Can see someone like Antonio running our defence ragged and they've got other decent players in final third so I'd rather they weren't bothered.
Certainly looking at Everton Bournemouth will have a big chance going there on the final day. Have to hope Southampton do the business at least at the weekend. 2 goal defeat and we'd go above them again.
Post by: eamonn on July 17, 2020, 12:56:31 AM
Post by: OzVilla on July 17, 2020, 04:23:33 AM
Thanks to Covid, I think next season will be a soulless experience whatever division we are in.
Post by: Big Ming on July 17, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
Stupid!
I suppose a big Wet Spam win tonight with them safe by the time we play them is pretty much the last straw to clutch.
Even then, we would have to beat the Arse and rely on Watford to not pick up any more points.
Is that right?
Post by: Rudy65 on July 17, 2020, 09:15:11 AM
I'm pretty much at peace with all this now and have been since we lost to Man Utd. We've not been good enough and I've really not enjoyed this season back in the PL once the new found novelty wore off. I found myself far happier when we weren't playing and i'm not sure its supposed to work that way. Obviously I really want us to stay up but if we don't we'll only have ourselves to blame.
Thanks to Covid, I think next season will be a soulless experience whatever division we are in.
Pretty much my thoughts. I just want it to be all over now And I think it will be come Tuesday
Post by: Ad@m on July 17, 2020, 09:31:05 AM
I gave this up some time ago, but got all excited yesterday evening for a while.
Stupid!
I suppose a big Wet Spam win tonight with them safe by the time we play them is pretty much the last straw to clutch.
Even then, we would have to beat the Arse and rely on Watford to not pick up any more points.
Is that right?
If we win them both the we need Watford to get no more than 3 points with a heavy defeat in there somewhere. Or to only pick up two points.
The big problem with that though is that we're not going to win both...
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 17, 2020, 09:33:50 AM
- West Ham win v Watford
- Southampton win v Bournemouth
- Man City smash Watford
- We take something v Arsenal
- We beat West Ham who are safe and on the beach
- Arsenal beat Watford
Simple right ;-)
Post by: Des Little on July 17, 2020, 09:38:27 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 17, 2020, 09:41:43 AM
Thanks Vinnie, if that's the ideal scenario then that's what I'll be hoping for. I can't and won't watch the match later, partly because my nerves are shredded but mainly because Friday night is TOTP 1989 night and that doesn't change!
The alternate is West Ham lose tonight and v Man United but would mean we then have to beat them final day.
Genuinely want them on the beach for final day, surely it gives us a better chance of 3 points than if they have something to play for themselves
These next few days are going to be painful
Post by: in exile on July 17, 2020, 10:03:32 AM
Post by: Villan82 on July 17, 2020, 11:47:17 AM
But surely it all depends on us beating Arsenal
A draw might be enough if Watford pick up no more points. I think that's the theory. So long as we beat West Ham.
Post by: The_ads on July 17, 2020, 11:59:58 AM
Post by: aldridgeboy on July 17, 2020, 12:06:11 PM
Thanks Vinnie, if that's the ideal scenario then that's what I'll be hoping for. I can't and won't watch the match later, partly because my nerves are shredded but mainly because Friday night is TOTP 1989 night and that doesn't change!
If there’s been one positive these last few months, it’s been TOTP 89!!
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 02:45:16 PM
I still think there could be a bizarre twist of fate that sees Villa, Watford and Bournemouth all on 34 points and all on the same -24 goal difference by game 38. That be fun. Sky would cream themselves
Fine by me, we'd finish 17 on goals scored (which is the next metric they use).
Post by: Steve67 on July 17, 2020, 03:42:48 PM
Post by: curiousorange on July 17, 2020, 03:54:14 PM
Post by: eamonn on July 17, 2020, 07:26:09 PM
Thanks Vinnie, if that's the ideal scenario then that's what I'll be hoping for. I can't and won't watch the match later, partly because my nerves are shredded but mainly because Friday night is TOTP 1989 night and that doesn't change!
If there’s been one positive these last few months, it’s been TOTP 89!!
Hopefully Left To My Own Devices gets a look-in more than Danny Drinkwater has.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 17, 2020, 07:30:53 PM
Have any of you actually enjoyed this 'festival' of football? Games on every night, other than having to watch Villa, of course!
I haven't watched many games apart from us. I've found it diverting in a good way having games on regularly to follow the stories. Shame about us really.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 17, 2020, 07:33:04 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 17, 2020, 07:36:41 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 17, 2020, 07:45:33 PM
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on July 17, 2020, 07:50:54 PM
Fuck that, i want West Ham to win 5-0
Watford's last two matches will be super hard for them so them getting no more points at all is what i'm praying for
The worst possible scenario is a draw of course
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 17, 2020, 07:59:10 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 17, 2020, 08:01:07 PM
Post by: Rudy65 on July 17, 2020, 08:05:29 PM
I have a horrible feeling that Bournemouth will survive and Watford will be joining us and Norwich. Horrible, because the game tonight ends in a draw and leaves us absolutely needing to win both games. Much as I want it to happen, it won't.
If they do blame Kasper Schmichel
Post by: Ad@m on July 17, 2020, 08:18:41 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 17, 2020, 08:23:50 PM
Can three of the sides above us not just go into administration or something?
We aren't as "spawny" as those twats down the road, so no.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 17, 2020, 08:30:56 PM
If we draw with Arsenal and beat Wet Spam
and Watford carry on losing to Spam and lose to Man C (h) and Arsenal (A)
and Bournemouth get no more than 3 points from Southampton (h) and Everton (a)
Then I think we stay up
None of those are that unreasonable on their own, might be a miracle for ALL of them to happen......but stranger things, and that.
While there's a straw to clutch, I'm clutching it ....
Post by: Legion on July 17, 2020, 08:41:06 PM
Post by: Legion on July 17, 2020, 08:42:45 PM
So what do we need to happen:
- West Ham win v Watford
- Southampton win v Bournemouth
- Man City smash Watford
- We take something v Arsenal
- We beat West Ham who are safe and on the beach
- Arsenal beat Watford
Simple right ;-)
Doddle. Might even go down to GD if Watford lose all 3 and we beat West Ham plus hope that Bournemouth slip up as well.
Post by: Ad@m on July 17, 2020, 08:44:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2020, 08:58:17 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 17, 2020, 08:59:03 PM
Post by: The Edge on July 17, 2020, 09:11:04 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 17, 2020, 09:16:08 PM
I’d swap our two remaining fixtures with them in a heartbeat!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2020, 09:20:15 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 17, 2020, 09:22:23 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 17, 2020, 09:23:52 PM
Post by: Ad@m on July 17, 2020, 09:29:21 PM
Leicester was an anomaly. I can't see them getting another point.
Post by: The Edge on July 17, 2020, 09:29:59 PM
Bournemouth are awful. Worse than us. The Leicester result was down to Leicester doing everything just legally short of literally chucking the ball in their own net 4 times.Did they? Why?
Post by: Bobby Boy on July 17, 2020, 09:37:56 PM
However Dean won't do that. Sit back, show respect and we'll lose.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 17, 2020, 09:45:57 PM
If we play with intensity and fire we can beat Arsenal. 2 up front. Put Luiz under the spotlight. That can happen.
However Dean won't do that. Sit back, show respect and we'll lose.
Which two, the two that we've needed to show some gumption but still can't muster a solitary goal between them to save our lives, those two?
Post by: Richard E on July 17, 2020, 09:48:04 PM
If we play with intensity and fire we can beat Arsenal. 2 up front. Put Luiz under the spotlight. That can happen.
However Dean won't do that. Sit back, show respect and we'll lose.
Which two, the two that we've needed to show some gumption but still can't muster a solitary goal between them to save our lives, those two?
Davis played very well yesterday.
Post by: TonyD on July 17, 2020, 09:57:45 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 17, 2020, 10:03:42 PM
If we play with intensity and fire we can beat Arsenal. 2 up front. Put Luiz under the spotlight. That can happen.
However Dean won't do that. Sit back, show respect and we'll lose.
Which two, the two that we've needed to show some gumption but still can't muster a solitary goal between them to save our lives, those two?
Davis played very well yesterday.
He's played 498 minutes as a PL centre-forward. He has 0 goals, 0 assists. Amongst whatever attributes he might bring to the side, a goal threat isn't one of them.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 17, 2020, 10:05:48 PM
Agree but does not give the ball away like Samatta.If we play with intensity and fire we can beat Arsenal. 2 up front. Put Luiz under the spotlight. That can happen.
However Dean won't do that. Sit back, show respect and we'll lose.
Which two, the two that we've needed to show some gumption but still can't muster a solitary goal between them to save our lives, those two?
Davis played very well yesterday.
He's played 498 minutes as a PL centre-forward. He has 0 goals, 0 assists. Amongst whatever attributes he might bring to the side, a goal threat isn't one of them.
Post by: Legion on July 17, 2020, 10:10:21 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 17, 2020, 10:13:41 PM
We need 11 who give a shit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2020, 10:19:14 PM
Agree but does not give the ball away like Samatta.If we play with intensity and fire we can beat Arsenal. 2 up front. Put Luiz under the spotlight. That can happen.
However Dean won't do that. Sit back, show respect and we'll lose.
Which two, the two that we've needed to show some gumption but still can't muster a solitary goal between them to save our lives, those two?
Davis played very well yesterday.
He's played 498 minutes as a PL centre-forward. He has 0 goals, 0 assists. Amongst whatever attributes he might bring to the side, a goal threat isn't one of them.
That is a low bar at the moment. The reality is Davis should not be anywhere near starting in the Premier League.
Post by: Ian. on July 17, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
Our current two first-choice strikers are amongst the worst I think I have ever seen. Davis is destined never to score and Samatta is a shadow of his pre-lockdown self.Have we ever had a situation where our centre halves pose a greater threat than our forwards. We all knew it when that window closed last year as well.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on July 17, 2020, 10:21:09 PM
Reasons to be cheerful.
1. We play our penultimate game with Arsenal after Bournemouth and Watford.
2. West ham are now safe so it's not the winner takes all shoot out with them.
I know it's the hope that kills but we do still have hope.
Post by: Loxton01 on July 17, 2020, 10:24:14 PM
Trez tries very hard if he could morph into el ghazi body we might have a player
Davis starts for me he has more presence than Samatta. Samatta has had two games not got close to being a threat
I think McGinn pushes up as the nr 10.
Grealish needs to step up he has been crap for me since lockdown if he is as good as everyone makes out he should be doing more
Post by: Legion on July 17, 2020, 10:25:42 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on July 17, 2020, 10:29:52 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 17, 2020, 10:30:02 PM
I’d say we’re the big worry. We need to win both games, which is a massive ask. If we don’t do that the other teams are totally irrelevant.
4 points will be enough IF Watford lose their final two and Bournemouth only take 3 points from their final two games. It's hardly a 100/1 shot.
We will know what's required before start of Arsenal game given Bournemouth and Watford play before us.
Still a small possibility 34 points could be enough.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 17, 2020, 10:33:24 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 17, 2020, 10:40:03 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 17, 2020, 10:42:43 PM
I would play Samatta off the shoulder of Davis. Not as a second striker necessarily. We don’t need a winger. Have Jack play around them with Targett, Elmo offering width.
If we could come up with an attacking formation without including AEG or Trezeguet I'd be all for it.
Post by: Legion on July 17, 2020, 10:45:19 PM
Post by: Des Little on July 17, 2020, 10:48:19 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 17, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 17, 2020, 10:49:23 PM
We could, but Smith won't. He has morphed into Eric Black.
Alas we all know very well that he will play one or both of them next week.
Post by: Legion on July 17, 2020, 10:52:17 PM
I would genuinely have Louie Barry or another young striker on the bench for Tuesday, and throw them on last 10 if we need something. The reason I say this is because I honestly think they couldn’t do any worse than our current goal-shy options.
So would I but he would and can not. The vast majority of the U23s have been sat at home for months. Only a few have been selected to train with the so-called first team.
Post by: Des Little on July 17, 2020, 10:55:20 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on July 17, 2020, 10:57:13 PM
I would genuinely have Louie Barry or another young striker on the bench for Tuesday, and throw them on last 10 if we need something. The reason I say this is because I honestly think they couldn’t do any worse than our current goal-shy options.
start them. what's the worse that can happen? They're shit up front like Samatta and Davis? What have we lost? We've carried the strikers since we've come back.
Post by: Ad@m on July 17, 2020, 11:10:32 PM
Our current two first-choice strikers are amongst the worst I think I have ever seen. Davis is destined never to score and Samatta is a shadow of his pre-lockdown self.
I'm pretty confident that for as long as I live I'll never see an Aston Villa striker worse than Jordan Bowery...
Post by: dl9 on July 17, 2020, 11:12:28 PM
I would genuinely have Louie Barry or another young striker on the bench for Tuesday, and throw them on last 10 if we need something. The reason I say this is because I honestly think they couldn’t do any worse than our current goal-shy options.
100% agree
Post by: Legion on July 17, 2020, 11:12:35 PM
Post by: Risso on July 17, 2020, 11:42:39 PM
Our current two first-choice strikers are amongst the worst I think I have ever seen. Davis is destined never to score and Samatta is a shadow of his pre-lockdown self.
I'm pretty confident that for as long as I live I'll never see an Aston Villa striker worse than Jordan Bowery...
He cost peanuts from the lower divisions though. Samatta is nearly as bad and was supposed to be our January salvation. He's been pitiful.
Post by: Ad@m on July 17, 2020, 11:47:16 PM
Our current two first-choice strikers are amongst the worst I think I have ever seen. Davis is destined never to score and Samatta is a shadow of his pre-lockdown self.
I'm pretty confident that for as long as I live I'll never see an Aston Villa striker worse than Jordan Bowery...
He cost peanuts from the lower divisions though. Samatta is nearly as bad and was supposed to be our January salvation. He's been pitiful.
Samatta has been banging them in in the Belgian top flight for the past four seasons so there's obviously a player there.
Jordan Bowery spent the same time flitting between Leyton Orient, Crewe Alex and MK Don's...
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2020, 11:51:35 PM
I would genuinely have Louie Barry or another young striker on the bench for Tuesday, and throw them on last 10 if we need something. The reason I say this is because I honestly think they couldn’t do any worse than our current goal-shy options.
Well that’s kind of it. How much worse can he possibly be?!
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 17, 2020, 11:54:35 PM
If you can get one Platt or Yorke type peanuts signing to come good every few years then you've done well. The odd Teale or Delaney will do, come to think of it.
The problem with Bowery is that we were so lacking other options he kept getting in the team, or at least on the bench, when he should have been nowhere near. That's just symptomatic of our general malaise since 2010, not his fault.
Post by: Legion on July 17, 2020, 11:57:05 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 17, 2020, 11:59:26 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 18, 2020, 12:05:26 AM
Post by: aldridgeboy on July 18, 2020, 12:29:20 AM
Since the restart, I think this is how Souness must have thought with George Weah’s “ cousin “ who he gave 10 mins for Southamption,before realising he couldn’t actually play.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 18, 2020, 01:27:33 AM
I genuinely can't remember him touching the ball.
Seem to remember him colliding with one of his own players going for the same ball in the lead up to Son's winner at VP.
Post by: Matt C on July 18, 2020, 02:34:10 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 18, 2020, 04:19:20 AM
Our current two first-choice strikers are amongst the worst I think I have ever seen. Davis is destined never to score and Samatta is a shadow of his pre-lockdown self.
I'm pretty confident that for as long as I live I'll never see an Aston Villa striker worse than Jordan Bowery...
He cost peanuts from the lower divisions though. Samatta is nearly as bad and was supposed to be our January salvation. He's been pitiful.
I would say it’s less about him and more about the horrendous tactics and service he’s received. Aguero would be shit in our side. Samatta has a more than excellent track record as a professional. We’ve blunted his edge.
Post by: ROBBO on July 18, 2020, 04:32:02 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 18, 2020, 06:00:04 AM
along with Trez Samatta AEG and Hourihane.Agree but does not give the ball away like Samatta.If we play with intensity and fire we can beat Arsenal. 2 up front. Put Luiz under the spotlight. That can happen.
However Dean won't do that. Sit back, show respect and we'll lose.
Which two, the two that we've needed to show some gumption but still can't muster a solitary goal between them to save our lives, those two?
Davis played very well yesterday.
He's played 498 minutes as a PL centre-forward. He has 0 goals, 0 assists. Amongst whatever attributes he might bring to the side, a goal threat isn't one of them.
That is a low bar at the moment. The reality is Davis should not be anywhere near starting in the Premier League.
Post by: London Villan on July 18, 2020, 08:27:19 AM
Post by: brian green on July 18, 2020, 08:29:03 AM
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 18, 2020, 08:35:03 AM
along with Trez Samatta AEG and Hourihane.Agree but does not give the ball away like Samatta.If we play with intensity and fire we can beat Arsenal. 2 up front. Put Luiz under the spotlight. That can happen.
However Dean won't do that. Sit back, show respect and we'll lose.
Which two, the two that we've needed to show some gumption but still can't muster a solitary goal between them to save our lives, those two?
Davis played very well yesterday.
He's played 498 minutes as a PL centre-forward. He has 0 goals, 0 assists. Amongst whatever attributes he might bring to the side, a goal threat isn't one of them.
That is a low bar at the moment. The reality is Davis should not be anywhere near starting in the Premier League.
Hourihane can obviously be hologram, but he's been good in the last two games to his credit and he's one of the players that at least gives a shit.
The midfield has actually looked well balanced in the last couple of games.
Davies never looks like scoring, but he can bully a centre back and David Luiz can be bullied, so I'd play him against Arsenal. Samatta looked decent before lockdown, he's just woefully off form.
It's down to 3 teams now and although Watford are in pole position points wise, with their fixtures they'll be looking at us and Bournemouth anxiously.
Thursday was a sickened but we've got 4 points from 2 games and the same again might be enough
Post by: Richard E on July 18, 2020, 08:58:13 AM
Post by: The Edge on July 18, 2020, 09:01:37 AM
No idea what's happened to Samatta, he looked o.k in the games he played in February. Would love to know what sort of training regime he was on in lockdown as he's looked way out of things since the restart.The thing is with Samatta is you can't accuse him of squandering chances. Have we seen him on the ball in a dangerous position in their area too often? Can't think of many. He had a header the other night that he should have done better with but I honestly think he's living off scraps. Same for Wesley same for Davis. We dominate games and kinda look threatening without carving out many actual chances for the strikers. Both him and Davis cover a lot of ground but most of it is wasted effort. I guess what I'm saying is we need a better game plan that gets our strikers on the ball and in dangerous positions. Too often we rely on wingers/wingbacks swinging in crosses from deep while praying for something to happen.
Post by: andyh on July 18, 2020, 09:03:21 AM
This weeks scores.
Bournemouth 1 Southampton 1
Watford 0 Man City 3
Villa 1 Arsenal 0
We climb out of the bottom 3 and head into ‘showdown Sunday’ as I am declaring it and sky will no doubt pinch.
Not beyond the realms of possibility?
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2020, 09:06:17 AM
The enforced break seemed to have a positive effect on a couple (Luiz, Konsa have come back better I think) but with Samatta I wonder what effect it had on him been isolated after just moving to a new country in the middle of a season. Either way he’s looked absolutely miles off the pace.
Yes that’s a good shout actually. Could be a factor. I refuse to believe he’s as bad as he’s looked since he came back.
Post by: The Edge on July 18, 2020, 09:15:11 AM
Let’s inject some positivity.Nice. Might have a little acca on that.
This weeks scores.
Bournemouth 1 Southampton 1
Watford 0 Man City 3
Villa 1 Arsenal 0
We climb out of the bottom 3 and head into ‘showdown Sunday’ as I am declaring it and sky will no doubt pinch.
Not beyond the realms of possibility?
Post by: wince on July 18, 2020, 10:07:42 AM
Post by: Villan82 on July 18, 2020, 10:44:14 AM
Yet if we do go down four of our players will sell for a combined £125-£150m... add heaton to the core of players and its bonkers we are now likely to drop.
A better management team would have found a way to have us on 40 points by now.
Post by: Villan82 on July 18, 2020, 10:50:06 AM
I don’t want to be the doom monger but had we taken all 3 at Everton I would still have hope. Left it too late to change our fate. Hope I’m wrong but time will tell
Had we taken all three I would back us to get out of it. As things stand it is very difficult but still do-able. It's basically the story of our season- leaving ourselves no cushion.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 18, 2020, 11:04:13 AM
Post by: Risso on July 18, 2020, 11:06:10 AM
There's no real point in saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway - the more you look at the league table this morning the significance of that goal conceded at Everton just grows and grows. I really must stop looking at it and go out and do something more purposeful!
That's fresh in everybody's mind, but we've had numerous such incidents all season, which have all accumulated to where we are now, ie going down.
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 18, 2020, 11:08:12 AM
There's no real point in saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway - the more you look at the league table this morning the significance of that goal conceded at Everton just grows and grows. I really must stop looking at it and go out and do something more purposeful!As do the two games against mighty Bournemouth - in particular the home defeat ......shocking results and performances
Post by: Clampy on July 18, 2020, 12:08:08 PM
Like all of us I am hoping for the best that we survive in the Premiership. Preparing for the worst I am approaching the months ahead like Bobby Ewing's time in the shower. This awful season has had an appropriately awful Covid mangled, unreal conclusion. If we go down I shall of course go to Chumps League games but my personal reality will only kick in when we get back to the Premier League and I can erase from my memory everything that has happened between our Wembley play off joy and the end of this excruciatingly horrible time to be a Villa fan.
I'm not sure about excruciatingly horrible. It's been disappointingly poor but nowhere near as bad as the season we went down not long back, we were an absolute mess. If worst comes to the worst, I think we might be in a better place to deal with it this time.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 18, 2020, 12:16:39 PM
Post by: Villan82 on July 18, 2020, 12:17:14 PM
Last time we were like a sick horse, on it's last legs, that needed to be put out of its misery. This one is far tougher to take.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 18, 2020, 01:29:36 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/R2bcRxL/F9-BBD56-C-D4-D2-4618-B0-CC-9-F40-A004720-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R2bcRxL)
Post by: brian green on July 18, 2020, 01:47:49 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 18, 2020, 01:53:29 PM
Post by: Ad@m on July 18, 2020, 01:57:53 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 18, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 18, 2020, 02:06:11 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on July 18, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 18, 2020, 02:08:29 PM
This time, after the excitement of last season, you felt like it could be the start of something special and the years of suffering could be coming to an end. Every hammering has been soul-destroying and every last minute loss has been a massive kick in the bollocks. Knowing it is coming doesn't make it any less painful. It also just feels like last year was for nothing, and I can no longer look back on those games with the enjoyment I used to get every time they repeated the playoff final on telly.
Conversely, I do believe we will be in much better shape to go back up this time, so this relegation could be much less damaging than the last one. But it feels much worse.
Post by: Clampy on July 18, 2020, 02:08:52 PM
Clampy, it is excruciatingly horrible to me because I am running out if seasons to watch them. If you think there was something good about this season so far I am not at all surprised.
I didn't say there was anything good, so you have nothing to be surprised about. I'm just suggesting for me it isn't as bad as last time.
Post by: Clampy on July 18, 2020, 02:16:26 PM
There's been plenty of shit this season but there's also been good moments. Not enough of the good but saying there's been nothing is wrong unless no one enjoyed watching Jack earlier in the season, sticking 5 past Norwich, Everton at home, the Leicester semi, the Watford winner to name a few.
Yes, it's not been all bad.
Post by: The Edge on July 18, 2020, 02:39:10 PM
I'm not sure if I agree with that. At home we went 2 down early doors thanks to blunders from 2 new signings. Heaton (pen) Luiz (ballwatching) After that we laid siege to their goal but could only find the net once. Away we gave as good as we got but again individual errors cost us. And we were denied a great shout for a pen when their keeper punched Engels right in the bracket from a corner! Poor results but not shocking results and performances by a long shot.There's no real point in saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway - the more you look at the league table this morning the significance of that goal conceded at Everton just grows and grows. I really must stop looking at it and go out and do something more purposeful!As do the two games against mighty Bournemouth - in particular the home defeat ......shocking results and performances
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 18, 2020, 02:42:35 PM
The away games at Watford, Bournemouth and Southampton were the most unforgivable, for me. All massive games against teams that were relegation rivals and we just vanished. In terms of our capacity for being massive, bottling, fannies, not even getting a draw against ten man Arsenal having had the lead twice was just pathetic.
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 18, 2020, 03:21:30 PM
No worries The Edge - its all about opinions :)I'm not sure if I agree with that. At home we went 2 down early doors thanks to blunders from 2 new signings. Heaton (pen) Luiz (ballwatching) After that we laid siege to their goal but could only find the net once. Away we gave as good as we got but again individual errors cost us. And we were denied a great shout for a pen when their keeper punched Engels right in the bracket from a corner! Poor results but not shocking results and performances by a long shot.There's no real point in saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway - the more you look at the league table this morning the significance of that goal conceded at Everton just grows and grows. I really must stop looking at it and go out and do something more purposeful!As do the two games against mighty Bournemouth - in particular the home defeat ......shocking results and performances
Maybe I expect too much … to me losing at home and away to Bournemouth constitutes "a shocking result" primarily as they are the level of opposition we should be expected to beat - I agree you cant compensate for individual errors - its just so frustrating and disappointing that we cant beat a relegation rival - we can all look at "what if " scenarios in numerous games, however when you take these two particular games into consideration it just shows how thin the dividing line is between success and failure - we would have been better off drawing both games :(
Cheers and UTV - regards VCTM
Post by: The Edge on July 18, 2020, 03:55:17 PM
Yeah I know mate it's been such a frustrating season. We're all feeling it. It's all about fine margins in the PL. The slightest error or lack of concentration and you get punished. I'm an optimist and whatever happens this season I'm confident that we have a bright future at B6.No worries The Edge - its all about opinions :)I'm not sure if I agree with that. At home we went 2 down early doors thanks to blunders from 2 new signings. Heaton (pen) Luiz (ballwatching) After that we laid siege to their goal but could only find the net once. Away we gave as good as we got but again individual errors cost us. And we were denied a great shout for a pen when their keeper punched Engels right in the bracket from a corner! Poor results but not shocking results and performances by a long shot.There's no real point in saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway - the more you look at the league table this morning the significance of that goal conceded at Everton just grows and grows. I really must stop looking at it and go out and do something more purposeful!As do the two games against mighty Bournemouth - in particular the home defeat ......shocking results and performances
Maybe I expect too much … to me losing at home and away to Bournemouth constitutes "a shocking result" primarily as they are the level of opposition we should be expected to beat - I agree you cant compensate for individual errors - its just so frustrating and disappointing that we cant beat a relegation rival - we can all look at "what if " scenarios in numerous games, however when you take these two particular games into consideration it just shows how thin the dividing line is between success and failure - we would have been better off drawing both games :(
Cheers and UTV - regards VCTM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on July 18, 2020, 04:11:01 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 18, 2020, 05:12:21 PM
I feel more depressed this time around than last time. Last time, as has been said, felt like a mercy killing. It always seemed like we were going to get relegated sooner or later so might as well get it over with. Plus we were so far adrift that the individual results ceased being important. Hammerings were greeted by gallows humour, last minute defeats by a shrug of the shoulders. And we didn't really know what the Championship was like, maybe it would be fun?I read on here somewhere - someone said something like "the last relegation was execution style - this one is death by a thousand cuts"
This time, after the excitement of last season, you felt like it could be the start of something special and the years of suffering could be coming to an end. Every hammering has been soul-destroying and every last minute loss has been a massive kick in the bollocks. Knowing it is coming doesn't make it any less painful. It also just feels like last year was for nothing, and I can no longer look back on those games with the enjoyment I used to get every time they repeated the playoff final on telly.
Conversely, I do believe we will be in much better shape to go back up this time, so this relegation could be much less damaging than the last one. But it feels much worse.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 18, 2020, 05:15:46 PM
I can forgive the home Bournemouth defeat as we were still finding our feet and did, at least, give it a bit of a go after a disastrous start.
The away games at Watford, Bournemouth and Southampton were the most unforgivable, for me. All massive games against teams that were relegation rivals and we just vanished. In terms of our capacity for being massive, bottling, fannies, not even getting a draw against ten man Arsenal having had the lead twice was just pathetic.
Agree about Watford, Bournemouth and Southampton no shows, add to that Sheffield Utd, good side but they never had to break a sweat. Think we were robbed at Arsenal though, there was a blatant handball that you wouldn’t even need VAR to view, after hourihane had a shot towards the end, ref it blew it away VAR didn’t even look. Might not have scored the penalty but might have and that point could make the difference
&feature=share
Post by: Mister E on July 18, 2020, 05:34:56 PM
Watching that again was useful:&feature=share
- we WERE good going forward, despite Trez' inability to hit a decent shot
- Mings was awful for the 2nd Arse goal
- Engels was a liability! Two goals down to his poor defending
- the handball at the end was a disgrace from that wanker Moss
We played decent football but our defending really was comedy gold.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 18, 2020, 05:46:13 PM
I know I sought out the handball and ended up watching the whole thing, what was Mings doing with that header!! We go down no doubt he’ll go but he really needs to stay and improve, whatever league we’re in. Engels not good enough and doubt we’ll see him again, something really strange with him being completely missing for big parts of the season. It is clear though that smith did want to attack this league, a real shame that we just couldn’t of drawn that, beat Burnley and West Ham at home instead of drawing when we largely dominated, 5 points better off and on the beach. Instead smith losing his confidence and way and the player’s the same.Watching that again was useful:&feature=share
- we WERE good going forward, despite Trez' inability to hit a decent shot
- Mings was awful for the 2nd Arse goal
- Engels was a liability! Two goals down to his poor defending
- the handball at the end was a disgrace from that wanker Moss
We played decent football but our defending really was comedy gold.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 18, 2020, 10:18:13 PM
Guendozhi came on and gave Arsenal the energy they needed in CM to make up for the lost man and we did nothing. He got a cheap penalty and his presence also caused other chances.
Should've put on another midfielder at 2-1 up to counter this but just looking at the line ups and Luiz wasn't in the 18 for some reason despite being on the bench for the West Ham game six days previously.
Sadly DS has not improved at that side of the game at all during the season even now when we can use 5 subs.
Post by: walsall villain on July 18, 2020, 10:23:36 PM
Arsenal game was more horrible game management I'm afraid. I remember in that game Arsenal were barely doing anything and then Emery made a double change around 60 minutes, DS did nothing.Negative view I know but I can’t see how we could use 5 subs to our advantage at the moment. It’s not helping the likes of us.
Guendozhi came on and gave Arsenal the energy they needed in CM to make up for the lost man and we did nothing. He got a cheap penalty and his presence also caused other chances.
Should've put on another midfielder at 2-1 up to counter this but just looking at the line ups and Luiz wasn't in the 18 for some reason despite being on the bench for the West Ham game six days previously.
Sadly DS has not improved at that side of the game at all during the season even now when we can use 5 subs.
Post by: Richard E on July 18, 2020, 10:25:21 PM
Post by: walsall villain on July 18, 2020, 10:39:45 PM
Bring 5 on but only take 3 off and hope nobody notices?Now I’m in favour
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 18, 2020, 10:41:57 PM
Arsenal game was more horrible game management I'm afraid. I remember in that game Arsenal were barely doing anything and then Emery made a double change around 60 minutes, DS did nothing.Negative view I know but I can’t see how we could use 5 subs to our advantage at the moment. It’s not helping the likes of us.
Guendozhi came on and gave Arsenal the energy they needed in CM to make up for the lost man and we did nothing. He got a cheap penalty and his presence also caused other chances.
Should've put on another midfielder at 2-1 up to counter this but just looking at the line ups and Luiz wasn't in the 18 for some reason despite being on the bench for the West Ham game six days previously.
Sadly DS has not improved at that side of the game at all during the season even now when we can use 5 subs.
Even if you don't rate the players you can spend the last 5 minutes just bringing three on every other minute to disrupt the game, we really should've done this at Everton to slow things down especially after that sitter Calvert Lewin missed just before the goal.
Fresh legs might've also stopped the cross coming in given Hourihane's very half hearted effort at blocking it.
Post by: walsall villain on July 18, 2020, 10:53:04 PM
We had made one double sub I think so yes we had two more opportunities for Everton but I’m worried about how our five subs compare to everbody else’s at this level.Arsenal game was more horrible game management I'm afraid. I remember in that game Arsenal were barely doing anything and then Emery made a double change around 60 minutes, DS did nothing.Negative view I know but I can’t see how we could use 5 subs to our advantage at the moment. It’s not helping the likes of us.
Guendozhi came on and gave Arsenal the energy they needed in CM to make up for the lost man and we did nothing. He got a cheap penalty and his presence also caused other chances.
Should've put on another midfielder at 2-1 up to counter this but just looking at the line ups and Luiz wasn't in the 18 for some reason despite being on the bench for the West Ham game six days previously.
Sadly DS has not improved at that side of the game at all during the season even now when we can use 5 subs.
Even if you don't rate the players you can spend the last 5 minutes just bringing three on every other minute to disrupt the game, we really should've done this at Everton to slow things down especially after that sitter Calvert Lewin missed just before the goal.
Fresh legs might've also stopped the cross coming in given Hourihane's very half hearted effort at blocking it.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 18, 2020, 11:14:35 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 18, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
At least meaning we have a chance of staying up on the last week.
Post by: Steve67 on July 18, 2020, 11:53:45 PM
Post by: ktvillan on July 19, 2020, 12:22:59 AM
I know I sought out the handball and ended up watching the whole thing, what was Mings doing with that header!! We go down no doubt he’ll go but he really needs to stay and improve, whatever league we’re in. Engels not good enough and doubt we’ll see him again, something really strange with him being completely missing for big parts of the season. It is clear though that smith did want to attack this league, a real shame that we just couldn’t of drawn that, beat Burnley and West Ham at home instead of drawing when we largely dominated, 5 points better off and on the beach. Instead smith losing his confidence and way and the player’s the same.Watching that again was useful:&feature=share
- we WERE good going forward, despite Trez' inability to hit a decent shot
- Mings was awful for the 2nd Arse goal
- Engels was a liability! Two goals down to his poor defending
- the handball at the end was a disgrace from that wanker Moss
We played decent football but our defending really was comedy gold.
With that typically powderpuff Trezeguet shot and appalling defending we probably got what we deserved in one sense - nevertheless that penalty decision alone is sufficient reason to completely do away with VAR and to send Jon Moss to the Knackers yard for the visually challenged. If that Palace goal was deemed handball, if Mings shoulder at Leicester was deemed handball, I've no fragment of an idea how that Arsenal player's deliberate movement of the arm to the ball wasn't. Scandalous.
Post by: David_Nab on July 19, 2020, 12:32:21 AM
Whilst scoring more goals would help us the far bigger issue all season has been the defending be it individual errors or tactics it been shocking.
Post by: Matt C on July 19, 2020, 01:14:19 AM
Want one of these straws I’m clutching?
Post by: Bermuda Villa on July 19, 2020, 01:37:24 AM
It was 100% a handball with current rules but should never have got to that , the loss was down to our own implosion both CB's cost us that game. Engles dear god with that and the Spurs game at home is alone responsible for 4 goals. The Mings error though is a simple head out for a corner or as far as you can , a cushion header in that position wtf was he thinking.
Whilst scoring more goals would help us the far bigger issue all season has been the defending be it individual errors or tactics it been shocking.
Also the free kick should have been ruled out because 21 (Holding was it) was interfering in our wall which is not allowed under the new rules but that game sums up Smiths lack of tactical reaction during a game. Guendouzi came on and we made him look like Messi he was consistently running with the ball 20 or 30 yards and Smith did nothing to stiffen the centre of our midfield, that game rankles the most with me as we should have won and the confidence we would have gained was immeasurable.
Post by: The Edge on July 19, 2020, 11:33:47 AM
Another game where the ref screwed us over. But equally another game where we shot ourselves in the foot. Letting Guendouzi come on and run the show unchallenged and Mings powderpuff header were the two main things that caused our undoing. I can forgive such things in isolation but we have not learned from those early mistakes. We conceded a very preventable goal against Everton which fully highlights this.It was 100% a handball with current rules but should never have got to that , the loss was down to our own implosion both CB's cost us that game. Engles dear god with that and the Spurs game at home is alone responsible for 4 goals. The Mings error though is a simple head out for a corner or as far as you can , a cushion header in that position wtf was he thinking.
Whilst scoring more goals would help us the far bigger issue all season has been the defending be it individual errors or tactics it been shocking.
Also the free kick should have been ruled out because 21 (Holding was it) was interfering in our wall which is not allowed under the new rules but that game sums up Smiths lack of tactical reaction during a game. Guendouzi came on and we made him look like Messi he was consistently running with the ball 20 or 30 yards and Smith did nothing to stiffen the centre of our midfield, that game rankles the most with me as we should have won and the confidence we would have gained was immeasurable.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 19, 2020, 11:51:39 AM
Good result for us today, Arsenal will have expended their energy on that performance leaving then ripe for turning over when we play them next. Probably.
Want one of these straws I’m clutching?
And perhaps Man City were saving themselves for the Watford game.
Post by: David_Nab on July 19, 2020, 11:57:18 AM
Another game where the ref screwed us over. But equally another game where we shot ourselves in the foot. Letting Guendouzi come on and run the show unchallenged and Mings powderpuff header were the two main things that caused our undoing. I can forgive such things in isolation but we have not learned from those early mistakes. We conceded a very preventable goal against Everton which fully highlights this.It was 100% a handball with current rules but should never have got to that , the loss was down to our own implosion both CB's cost us that game. Engles dear god with that and the Spurs game at home is alone responsible for 4 goals. The Mings error though is a simple head out for a corner or as far as you can , a cushion header in that position wtf was he thinking.
Whilst scoring more goals would help us the far bigger issue all season has been the defending be it individual errors or tactics it been shocking.
Also the free kick should have been ruled out because 21 (Holding was it) was interfering in our wall which is not allowed under the new rules but that game sums up Smiths lack of tactical reaction during a game. Guendouzi came on and we made him look like Messi he was consistently running with the ball 20 or 30 yards and Smith did nothing to stiffen the centre of our midfield, that game rankles the most with me as we should have won and the confidence we would have gained was immeasurable.
Guendouzi was a big factor , play that game now and Luiz would have stopped him but even then they had a player less how we didn't double up on him at least was pretty poor.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 19, 2020, 12:25:07 PM
Post by: wince on July 19, 2020, 02:12:33 PM
Hoping that Man City hump Watford and if we do lose, it is only by the odd goal.
At least meaning we have a chance of staying up on the last week.
Don’t we need more than 4 points though?
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 19, 2020, 02:26:11 PM
Post by: DB on July 19, 2020, 02:29:24 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 19, 2020, 02:35:16 PM
https://twitter.com/jpercytelegraph/status/1284843654243397632?s=21
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 19, 2020, 02:37:18 PM
Nigel Pearson and Craig Shakespeare have been sacked by Watford. Given the news by technical director Filippo Giraldi earlier today. Pearson has never been relegated, and would probably have maintained that record. Very odd
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2020, 02:37:50 PM
Post by: DB on July 19, 2020, 02:40:02 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 19, 2020, 02:40:13 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 19, 2020, 02:40:34 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 19, 2020, 02:41:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2020, 02:42:26 PM
Post by: DB on July 19, 2020, 02:46:51 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 19, 2020, 02:53:01 PM
Nothing about Pearson on the BBC website, mind.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 19, 2020, 02:57:24 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 19, 2020, 03:19:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2020, 03:22:07 PM
Considering they didn't win a league game until November and yet are in the driver's seat to stay up, that is nearly as insane as Pearson is.
Yeah very odd. A win probably saves them.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 19, 2020, 03:55:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2020, 03:58:15 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 19, 2020, 03:58:36 PM
4 points and I'd be very confident we'd stay up. Probably won't be good enough to do that but survival is there if the team really really want it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2020, 04:06:28 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 19, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 19, 2020, 04:15:37 PM
We just need to avoid scenario where we lose by 2 or 3 v Arsenal as then we might have to overturn 5-6 GD on final day (if say Watford only lose 2-0 to Man. City) which would be a very remote prospect of survival.
Post by: gpbarr on July 19, 2020, 04:16:03 PM
Permutations just got a lot cleaner.
Here’s my take:
Watford will struggle to get a point from there last two games, clearly in disarray and not very good either. Yes City and Arse will be on the beach but I’d still bet against Watford. Let’s be generous and say they end the season on 35 points with a GD of -26.
Bournemouth just bottled it. I think they will draw against Everton but even if they win, then end on 37 and a GD of say -25.
So if we win both, we survive.
If we get 4 points, we need to improve our GD by 2 to survive
If we get 3 points we can still survive if Watford lose both (probable) and Bournemouth don’t win against Everton.
What a chance!
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 04:16:51 PM
Post by: Des Little on July 19, 2020, 04:17:03 PM
Post by: john2710 on July 19, 2020, 04:18:09 PM
Post by: David_Nab on July 19, 2020, 04:22:33 PM
Post by: ktvillan on July 19, 2020, 04:31:22 PM
Post by: CT on July 19, 2020, 04:48:01 PM
What we want is a massive reaction from city against Watford and Arsenal to go back to their Brighton level of performance.
I just wonder of Arsenal might make a few changes? I’ll clutch at any available straw.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 19, 2020, 04:52:36 PM
What we want is a massive reaction from city against Watford and Arsenal to go back to their Brighton level of performance.
I just wonder of Arsenal might make a few changes? I’ll clutch at any available straw.
They beat Liverpool with likes of Reiss Nelson starting.
They've only won 3-4 games away all season so it's easier to get a result v them on your home patch than at Emirates where we obviously should've got at least a draw but for some rank bad decisions and poor game management.
Post by: Mister E on July 19, 2020, 05:15:01 PM
Post by: themossman on July 19, 2020, 05:16:47 PM
The cup is double edged. On the one hand, a bounce from beating city, on the other defending with 10% possession must surely have knackered a few of them, and we can hope they‘ll be disinterested in remaining league games. But then there’s Watford.
Bottom line is that there are plenty of reasons to bring the game to them and aim for 3 points, so we should. If we don’t go for it we will regret it.
Post by: mr underhill on July 19, 2020, 05:40:51 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 19, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
AEG's last week the most recent one. But our performance and attitude in the games against Sheff U and Newcastle was off, when good results there could have set us up nicely. Then we've done the typical Villa thing of not even trying to make a contest of it against the moneybags clubs such as Chelsea and Man U.
All that needs to be parked now.
Man for man both Arsenal and West Ham are better than us. But they shouldn't want to win more than we do. I'm resigned to going down but still hopeful (just about) that we can pull it off. Go flat out in the next two (not gung ho football, but not the cautious, tepid shite we have seen in most of our home games since June) and what will be will be.
Post by: The_ads on July 19, 2020, 05:52:41 PM
Incredible.
Permutations just got a lot cleaner.
Here’s my take:
Watford will struggle to get a point from there last two games, clearly in disarray and not very good either. Yes City and Arse will be on the beach but I’d still bet against Watford. Let’s be generous and say they end the season on 35 points with a GD of -26.
Bournemouth just bottled it. I think they will draw against Everton but even if they win, then end on 37 and a GD of say -25.
So if we win both, we survive.
If we get 4 points, we need to improve our GD by 2 to survive
If we get 3 points we can still survive if Watford lose both (probable) and Bournemouth don’t win against Everton.
What a chance!
How do Bournemouth end on 37?? Forget them, they are cooked.
If Villa win both games we survive. Simple as
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 19, 2020, 05:58:28 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 06:07:51 PM
If Villa win both games we survive. Simple asExcept it isn't.
Post by: Ads on July 19, 2020, 06:10:25 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 06:12:32 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 19, 2020, 06:13:46 PM
Any one just anyone.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 06:18:07 PM
If we win both games, we will stop up. Watford won't win their next two.And that's my point. We have to win our next two and hope other results go our way. It's out of our hands now.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 19, 2020, 06:20:03 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 19, 2020, 06:25:00 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 19, 2020, 06:34:57 PM
Stop it, everyone. You're in danger of raising my hopes up!Don’t worry, normal service will be resumed, once we enter the field of play.
We are still going down.
Post by: JJ-AV on July 19, 2020, 06:54:06 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 19, 2020, 06:58:53 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 19, 2020, 07:12:10 PM
We can't afford to lose to Arsenal. Bournemouth are capable of beating Everton and Watford getting atleast a point from Arsenal.
Bournemouth can stay up in they beat Everton and us and Watford lose our last two and the goal difference swings there way. Of course that can happen and it wouldn’t necessarily be a miracle escape. But if I was a Bournemouth tonight I’d be thinking my club was down bar the shouting. Watford’s sacking of Pearson is mad with two games left, especially as they won two before West Ham. It could galvanise them with Deeney tub thumping, my guess is if Man City score early they crumble. We just have to start in the front foot against Arsenal. But depending if Watford ship some to city we could actually lose by the odd goal and still go to West Ham with a chance. Madness
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on July 19, 2020, 07:36:28 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 07:38:01 PM
It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.I'm quite sure that's not true.
Post by: Ad@m on July 19, 2020, 07:48:56 PM
It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
Anyone predicting we'll go down is hardly some incredible Nostradamus - we're 7/2 on for relegation.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 19, 2020, 07:53:04 PM
It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 19, 2020, 07:57:29 PM
It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
Anyone predicting we'll go down is hardly some incredible Nostradamus - we're 7/2 on for relegation.
That's lengthened. People piling money on Watford now.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 19, 2020, 08:34:35 PM
Bonkers! Might be good for us though!
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 19, 2020, 08:39:47 PM
Villa finished 4th from bottom. We lost to Arsenal away but beat them at home, we drew with West Ham at home but beat them away.
Just need history to repeat itself. ;)
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 19, 2020, 08:47:43 PM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;DIt's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Post by: Legion on July 19, 2020, 08:51:29 PM
in 1963/64 Liverpool won the First Division, Leeds the Second Division.
Villa finished 4th from bottom. We lost to Arsenal away but beat them at home, we drew with West Ham at home but beat them away.
Just need history to repeat itself. ;)
Pus Coventry the 3rd (I think).
Post by: themossman on July 19, 2020, 08:52:46 PM
Post by: Villan82 on July 19, 2020, 08:58:06 PM
It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
No way. I would happily eat humble pie for years. I want us to stay up more than anything, this season has been tough but we all want the same thing. Another crack at the PL next season.
Post by: luke95 on July 19, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
in 1963/64 Liverpool won the First Division, Leeds the Second Division.
Villa finished 4th from bottom. We lost to Arsenal away but beat them at home, we drew with West Ham at home but beat them away.
Just need history to repeat itself. ;)
Pus Coventry the 3rd (I think).
They did indeed.
These posts need deleting before Damo70 sees & lumps on
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 19, 2020, 09:07:14 PM
Pus Coventry the 3rd (I think).
They did indeed.
These posts need deleting before Damo70 sees & lumps on
Cheers, overheard someone briefly mention the Leeds / Liverpool thing so assumed it must involve a good omen of sorts but hadn't made the Coventry connection.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 09:08:40 PM
It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
No it isn't, Donald.
Post by: Le Lapin on July 19, 2020, 09:09:35 PM
Post by: Legion on July 19, 2020, 09:09:51 PM
Post by: Ad@m on July 19, 2020, 09:23:47 PM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
We're 3 points and 4 goals from safety with two games left. It really isn't in our hands.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 09:24:15 PM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
I expect Watford to beat Arsenal. We need six points.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 19, 2020, 09:38:58 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 19, 2020, 09:45:28 PM
Rumours Pearson punched a player.
If that's the case, I wonder why they have sacked Shakespeare too. I wonder if it is part of a bullying thing.
Post by: Le Lapin on July 19, 2020, 09:46:16 PM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
We're 3 points and 4 goals from safety with two games left. It really isn't in our hands.
I said pending results elsewhere. Of course we have to do our bit as well, that it in our hands.
Post by: Ad@m on July 19, 2020, 09:46:51 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 09:48:19 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 19, 2020, 09:49:45 PM
Rumours Pearson punched a player.
It sounds right doesn't it.
Post by: nodge on July 19, 2020, 10:03:26 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 19, 2020, 10:23:10 PM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
I expect Watford to beat Arsenal. We need six points.
I don't. The only thing that will save Watford now is us failing to overtake them. I think they'll get two good shoeings now.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 19, 2020, 10:28:00 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 19, 2020, 10:30:07 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.Didn’t we beat them 6-2 the week before they played Ipswich in the FA cup final 1978 ?
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 10:30:12 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 19, 2020, 10:31:33 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
To be fair Dave, I can't forgive them for that f@cking League Cup final either.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 19, 2020, 10:31:50 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.Didn’t we beat them 6-2 the week before they played Ipswich in the FA cup final 1978 ?
We beat Ipswich 6-0.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 10:33:10 PM
Post by: Damo70 on July 19, 2020, 10:33:56 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.Didn’t we beat them 6-2 the week before they played Ipswich in the FA cup final 1978 ?
I thought it was Ipswich we stuck six past just before that final.
Post by: john2710 on July 19, 2020, 10:34:49 PM
I'd have taken that possibility after the Utd game.
Post by: Ad@m on July 19, 2020, 10:36:00 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
He's right.
I've literally never met a decent Arsenal fan. Chelsea, Man U, Man City, even fucking Liverpool have one or two decent followers.
Arsenal - shower of bastards the absolute lot of them.
Post by: Damo70 on July 19, 2020, 10:37:57 PM
I heard he punched an ostrich
The poor old ostrich didn't deserve to be punched. Bernie Clifton on the other hand... ;)
Post by: Damo70 on July 19, 2020, 10:43:54 PM
Rumours Pearson punched a player.
If it kicked off with a player in the dressing room my guess would be Deeney.
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 19, 2020, 10:47:57 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
He's right.
I've literally never met a decent Arsenal fan. Chelsea, Man U, Man City, even fucking Liverpool have one or two decent followers.
Arsenal - shower of bastards the absolute lot of them.
Piers Morgan typifies the modern Arsenal fan , from Gooners to crooners
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 19, 2020, 10:55:10 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
He's right.
I've literally never met a decent Arsenal fan. Chelsea, Man U, Man City, even fucking Liverpool have one or two decent followers.
Arsenal - shower of bastards the absolute lot of them.
I'll have to introduce you to my wife.
Post by: Ad@m on July 19, 2020, 10:56:39 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
He's right.
I've literally never met a decent Arsenal fan. Chelsea, Man U, Man City, even fucking Liverpool have one or two decent followers.
Arsenal - shower of bastards the absolute lot of them.
I'll have to introduce you to my wife.
Ha!
Well I suppose it could've been worse. She's not a stripey (unlike mine)!
Post by: Damo70 on July 19, 2020, 10:57:38 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 10:58:16 PM
Post by: lovejoy on July 19, 2020, 11:01:21 PM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Post by: Damo70 on July 19, 2020, 11:02:40 PM
I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
He's right.
I've literally never met a decent Arsenal fan. Chelsea, Man U, Man City, even fucking Liverpool have one or two decent followers.
Arsenal - shower of bastards the absolute lot of them.
I'll have to introduce you to my wife.
Is she a goer? Nudge nudge wink wink know what I mean? Does she go? Likes games? I bet she does.
Post by: Damo70 on July 19, 2020, 11:03:56 PM
None of the usual "we thank him for his efforts and wish him well for the future" platitudes, I see.
I thought the same. It was a rather terse statement.
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2020, 12:01:06 AM
Talking about home and away performance is a bit of a red herring, isn't it? - without a crowd the home-performance record since the start of this mini-league has softened generally.
There haven't been as many shock results as I thought they'd be tbh, home form generally only been a factor for likes of us, Norwich and Bournemouth. We'd all surely have picked up more home points with fans in the ground. None have picked up an away win since restart (add Watford to that aswell).
Arsenal since the restart have won v Norwich and Liverpool at home and lost 3 of their 5 away games so that's generally what they've been doing during the season.
It's simply a question of motivation for them in these last two games but they're more likely to be relaxed and play free in their home environment. Watford will probably set up defensively to try to scrap out a point aswell.
Post by: tony scott on July 20, 2020, 02:13:07 AM
Post by: Le Lapin on July 20, 2020, 06:10:59 AM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Yes, pending expected results elsewhere, Citeh beating Watford, Arsenal beating Watford and hoping Everton turn up against Bournemouth.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2020, 06:11:40 AM
How do you literally never meet anyone?I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
He's right.
I've literally never met a decent Arsenal fan. Chelsea, Man U, Man City, even fucking Liverpool have one or two decent followers.
Arsenal - shower of bastards the absolute lot of them.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 20, 2020, 06:52:42 AM
Post by: frank black on July 20, 2020, 07:01:42 AM
How do you literally never meet anyone?I hope so, but we have learned over the years that you can't trust Arsenal.
Do you ever feel that you might be a bit paranoid where they're concerned?
He's right.
I've literally never met a decent Arsenal fan. Chelsea, Man U, Man City, even fucking Liverpool have one or two decent followers.
Arsenal - shower of bastards the absolute lot of them.
Piers Morgan and Alan Davies (Case rested your honor)
Post by: Steve67 on July 20, 2020, 07:26:30 AM
Post by: Duncan Shaw on July 20, 2020, 07:53:04 AM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Yes, pending expected results elsewhere, Citeh beating Watford, Arsenal beating Watford and hoping Everton turn up against Bournemouth.
So we are hoping to beat Arsenal, who outplayed Citeh at the weekend but hope that said Citeh beat Watford and then the Arsenal we manage to beat return to form to beat Watford, with nothing to play for in the league and one eye on the cup final...….Okaaaaayyyy!
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2020, 07:58:02 AM
It’s comments like this that convince me that some fans want to see us relegated.Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Yes, pending expected results elsewhere, Citeh beating Watford, Arsenal beating Watford and hoping Everton turn up against Bournemouth.
So we are hoping to beat Arsenal, who outplayed Citeh at the weekend but hope that said Citeh beat Watford and then the Arsenal we manage to beat return to form to beat Watford, with nothing to play for in the league and one eye on the cup final...….Okaaaaayyyy!
We are Aston Villa.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on July 20, 2020, 08:02:16 AM
Post by: The Edge on July 20, 2020, 08:04:36 AM
That's what I thought. We have some strange fans don't we?It’s comments like this that convince me that some fans want to see us relegated.Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Yes, pending expected results elsewhere, Citeh beating Watford, Arsenal beating Watford and hoping Everton turn up against Bournemouth.
So we are hoping to beat Arsenal, who outplayed Citeh at the weekend but hope that said Citeh beat Watford and then the Arsenal we manage to beat return to form to beat Watford, with nothing to play for in the league and one eye on the cup final...….Okaaaaayyyy!
We are Aston Villa.
Post by: mr underhill on July 20, 2020, 08:31:59 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 08:43:26 AM
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 20, 2020, 09:03:10 AM
I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Agreed. Duncan Shaw was only stating the obvious above. Just because some of us are realists and don't blindly stumble around with our claret and blue specs on, doesn't make us any less of a supporter.
Obviously, we'd all die to see Villa claw their way out of this mess (of their own doing), but realistically, looking at form/past results, it's highly unlikely to actually happen.
It's a funny old game, and we'll all be glued to the telly/radio tomorrow, (and if things do work out) Sunday regardless!
UTV
Post by: Ads on July 20, 2020, 09:07:45 AM
Post by: TaxDodger on July 20, 2020, 09:12:36 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 09:22:59 AM
What if Le Lapin self proclaims his opinion as realism?
He can do what he likes, so far as I can see he wasn't trotting out the "want us to lose" nonsense.
Post by: Clampy on July 20, 2020, 09:24:44 AM
Post by: Le Lapin on July 20, 2020, 09:29:36 AM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Yes, pending expected results elsewhere, Citeh beating Watford, Arsenal beating Watford and hoping Everton turn up against Bournemouth.
So we are hoping to beat Arsenal, who outplayed Citeh at the weekend but hope that said Citeh beat Watford and then the Arsenal we manage to beat return to form to beat Watford, with nothing to play for in the league and one eye on the cup final...….Okaaaaayyyy!
A win and a draw for us as per my original post, not sure in what order. If you haven't hope, well then, what have you got? I'm well aware how weak this Villa team is, but I keep on believing that it will turn around for us at some stage.
Post by: Clampy on July 20, 2020, 09:31:12 AM
What if Le Lapin self proclaims his opinion as realism?
This, and you also have people accusing fans of 'blindly stumbling around with claret and blue specs on'. There's nothing at all wrong in thinking we could still get out of it.
Post by: sickbeggar on July 20, 2020, 09:46:12 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 09:56:56 AM
I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
Post by: Ads on July 20, 2020, 09:59:44 AM
1.Villa beat Arsenal
2. Southampton beat Bournemouth
3. Villa beat West Ham
4. West Ham beat Watford
5. Man City beat Watford
40% there, with the hardest to come for us. If 1 and 5 on the list come in, we're doing it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 10:07:30 AM
I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
I don't think there has been any equivalent of the nonsense on the previous page from our Illinois Correspondent from the less confident among us.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2020, 10:11:31 AM
You might want to read some of the previous posts, and they say Americans don’t get Irony.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
I don't think there has been any equivalent of the nonsense on the previous page from our Illinois Correspondent from the less confident among us.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 10:13:17 AM
Which of course hasn't happened.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 10:16:49 AM
You might want to read some of the previous posts, and they say Americans don’t get Irony.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
I don't think there has been any equivalent of the nonsense on the previous page from our Illinois Correspondent from the less confident among us.
Yeah sure, Alanis.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 10:17:01 AM
Which of course hasn't happened.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
It's been happening for years. Further details on request.
Post by: chrisw1 on July 20, 2020, 10:32:09 AM
Post by: spartacuss on July 20, 2020, 11:04:18 AM
Works for me.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 11:18:37 AM
"Anyone who looks even vaguely supportive"? Really? You might equally say there are at least a couple on here who are ready to pile on to anyone who says anything even vaguely critical or pessimistic.Which of course hasn't happened.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
It's been happening for years. Further details on request.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 11:24:23 AM
"Anyone who looks even vaguely supportive"? Really? You might equally say there are at least a couple on here who are ready to pile on to anyone who says anything even vaguely critical or pessimistic.Which of course hasn't happened.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
It's been happening for years. Further details on request.
Or as it's otherwise known, disagree.
Post by: Ad@m on July 20, 2020, 11:27:52 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 11:29:37 AM
Yep, and that cuts both ways. I think the point is that yes there are always a couple of extreme views at either end of the spectrum but why concentrate on them? The vast majority are on a more sensible sliding scale in between, depending on how the team is generally performing at the time."Anyone who looks even vaguely supportive"? Really? You might equally say there are at least a couple on here who are ready to pile on to anyone who says anything even vaguely critical or pessimistic.Which of course hasn't happened.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
It's been happening for years. Further details on request.
Or as it's otherwise known, disagree.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 20, 2020, 11:31:08 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 11:33:56 AM
Yep, and that cuts both ways. I think the point is that yes there are always a couple of extreme views at either end of the spectrum but why concentrate on them? The vast majority are on a more sensible sliding scale in between, depending on how the team is generally performing at the time."Anyone who looks even vaguely supportive"? Really? You might equally say there are at least a couple on here who are ready to pile on to anyone who says anything even vaguely critical or pessimistic.Which of course hasn't happened.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
It's been happening for years. Further details on request.
Or as it's otherwise known, disagree.
Because the people who are the most miserable are always the quickest to moan that everyone's picking on them, and it's a strange world where being optimistic about your team's chances is cause for criticism.
Post by: Damo70 on July 20, 2020, 11:38:58 AM
"Anyone who looks even vaguely supportive"? Really? You might equally say there are at least a couple on here who are ready to pile on to anyone who says anything even vaguely critical or pessimistic.Which of course hasn't happened.I don't think it is too strange to be pessimistic when we have been mostly shit for a decade, haven't won at home to Arsenal this century and have watched them lose countless matches we wanted them to win against mediocre opposition in the meantime. Expecting the worst while hoping to be pleasantly surprised is a good way of dealing with things for some of us.
There seems to be an odd mindset creeping onto here lately that you're somehow not a proper fan or, ridiculously, "want us to lose" if you have any less than blind optimism.
Perhaps if some posters were't so keen to shout down anyone who looks even vaguely supportive it might not happen.
It's been happening for years. Further details on request.
Or as it's otherwise known, disagree.
I reminds me of journeys back from away games in the eighties and nineties. Usually a car full of us.. If Villa won we would be having a right laugh amongst ourselves and the banter carried on when we ended up in our local pub. If Villa lost the post-mortem lasted all the way home and carried on long and loud in the pub. Five young blokes who were good mates and massive Villa fans regularly falling out over how and why Villa had lost.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 11:45:38 AM
Because the people who are the most miserable are always the quickest to moan that everyone's picking on them, and it's a strange world where being optimistic about your team's chances is cause for criticism.It's a strange world too where not sharing that optimism is also grounds for criticism.
Post by: JJ-AV on July 20, 2020, 11:45:41 AM
Post by: themossman on July 20, 2020, 11:45:46 AM
We’re definitely staying up and anyone who disagrees is not entitled to celebrate our next European Cup.
Haha, so true.
In the eternal happy clappers vs doom mongers war, I always feel like both extremes live only in the imagination of the opposing side.
Surely there is an underlying acceptance that we all (since we’re sad enough to spend a large chunk of our waking hours arguing about villa on the internet) want the team to do well. Does anyone really, really not think that?
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 11:47:17 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 11:48:21 AM
Because the people who are the most miserable are always the quickest to moan that everyone's picking on them, and it's a strange world where being optimistic about your team's chances is cause for criticism.It's a strange world too where not sharing that optimism is also grounds for criticism.
Not sharing it is one thing - criticising someone for being optimistic is quite another.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 11:50:53 AM
Not sharing it is one thing - criticising someone for being optimistic is quite another.What about criticising someone for being pessimistic, particularly at this moment in time? As I said, this cuts both ways and both 'sides' are as bad as each other.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 11:52:30 AM
Not sharing it is one thing - criticising someone for being optimistic is quite another.What about criticising someone for being pessimistic, particularly at this moment in time? As I said, this cuts both ways and both 'sides' are as bad as each other.
Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.
Post by: Damo70 on July 20, 2020, 11:59:00 AM
I one had a bit of a disagreement coming out of the ground with somebody over whether we should sell David Platt. He didn't speak to me again until we found ourselves locked in at the Black Eagle nearly twenty years later.
A mate of mine and my cousin had a big falling out at the 1996 final. One was pro Savo and the other was anti Savo. One of them missed Savo's goal as he had gone to the bog and the other took the piss. They didn't speak to each other for several years until my Dad had a party for his 70th birthday.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2020, 11:59:25 AM
Us staying up is possible but unlikely. Is there much more to say until after the Arsenal game?
Not really. Think four points from the last two games could well be enough though.
Would need Watford to lose both games, which is a possibility given the fixtures they have and what has unfolded there over the last few days. Four points would take Bournemouth out of the picture as well, so it wouldn't really matter what they did in their final game.
As you say, it will be a lot clearer after tomorrow night, as unless Watford get absolutely spanked, a defeat tomorrow will see us staring down the barrel.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:01:44 PM
Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.But on here, on this very thread, the accusation is being thrown about (by the optimistic) that being pessimistic equates to wanting the club to be relegated in order to be proved right. That's utter shit.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 12:04:35 PM
Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.But on here, on this very thread, the accusation is being thrown about (by the optimistic) that being pessimistic equates to wanting the club to be relegated in order to be proved right. That's utter shit.
No it isn't.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 20, 2020, 12:05:47 PM
Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.But on here, on this very thread, the accusation is being thrown about (by the optimistic) that being pessimistic equates to wanting the club to be relegated in order to be proved right. That's utter shit.
While it’s none of my business, it seems weird to get into an argument to defend the right to be a pain in the arse.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 12:06:42 PM
Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.But on here, on this very thread, the accusation is being thrown about (by the optimistic) that being pessimistic equates to wanting the club to be relegated in order to be proved right. That's utter shit.
While it’s none of my business, it seems weird to get into an argument to defend the right to be a pain in the arse.
I've certainly made a career out of it.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:07:30 PM
Okay, name names. Who on here wants us to be relegated in order to be proved right.Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.But on here, on this very thread, the accusation is being thrown about (by the optimistic) that being pessimistic equates to wanting the club to be relegated in order to be proved right. That's utter shit.
No it isn't.
Post by: Darth Villa on July 20, 2020, 12:10:21 PM
After each match I go through a cycle of accepting relegation as inevitable before the creeping on-set of hope has me buying another NowTV sports pass, convinced that a win is on the way. In my post Everton cycle I'm currently of the opinion that we'll lose to the Arse, but I'm starting to think we're due surprise result and Arsenal will have their minds elsewhere. I'll be reaching for my wallet at 8pm tomorrow.
Personally I like posts with the more extreme opinions of optimism and pessimism, they make for an entertaining read and I'm not offended or bothered by either. Which I guess is why I don't post very often, it's boring in the middle
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 12:17:36 PM
Okay, name names. Who on here wants us to be relegated in order to be proved right.Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.But on here, on this very thread, the accusation is being thrown about (by the optimistic) that being pessimistic equates to wanting the club to be relegated in order to be proved right. That's utter shit.
No it isn't.
Read what I wrote again. That's not being said at all. And this argument is getting very tedious.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 12:19:50 PM
Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.But on here, on this very thread, the accusation is being thrown about (by the optimistic) that being pessimistic equates to wanting the club to be relegated in order to be proved right. That's utter shit.
No it isn't.
Here you go...
It’s comments like this that convince me that some fans want to see us relegated.Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Yes, pending expected results elsewhere, Citeh beating Watford, Arsenal beating Watford and hoping Everton turn up against Bournemouth.
So we are hoping to beat Arsenal, who outplayed Citeh at the weekend but hope that said Citeh beat Watford and then the Arsenal we manage to beat return to form to beat Watford, with nothing to play for in the league and one eye on the cup final...….Okaaaaayyyy!
We are Aston Villa.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2020, 12:22:21 PM
Post by: mattjpa on July 20, 2020, 12:24:47 PM
I thought we were down before the restart and non of our results since, Palace aside, have made my outlook any sunnier. Yet here we are with two games to go and we're still in it.
After each match I go through a cycle of accepting relegation as inevitable before the creeping on-set of hope has me buying another NowTV sports pass, convinced that a win is on the way. In my post Everton cycle I'm currently of the opinion that we'll lose to the Arse, but I'm starting to think we're due surprise result and Arsenal will have their minds elsewhere. I'll be reaching for my wallet at 8pm tomorrow.
Personally I like posts with the more extreme opinions of optimism and pessimism, they make for an entertaining read and I'm not offended or bothered by either. Which I guess is why I don't post very often, it's boring in the middle
Probably describes the mental process we are all going through between games really well. Just this one last time, im going to raise my optimism and believe that we are going to finally get it right and do something out of the ordinary. That bit of luck is going to go our way, our big players are going to have big games and Arsenal are going to turn up thinking they have already won.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
There it is.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 20, 2020, 12:32:18 PM
Some fans are eternally optimistic, others not so much... and that's fine. Lets just remember that we ALL agree on one thing.... We love the Villa and we ALL want them to succeed.
Emotions are a little more charged than usual, what with the football we've been dealt this season, alongside all the shit that 2020 has brought with it, but I say let's just keep the banter lighthearted, and focus on tomorrow night. We'll have a much clearer picture of where things are going come 10pm tomorrow.
UTV
Post by: Villan82 on July 20, 2020, 12:34:41 PM
I wouldn't hammer anybody for being like that with their football team.
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 20, 2020, 12:35:19 PM
It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
There it is.
What a load of nonsense to suggest that anyone on here wants the club relegated. There are differences of opinion on just about every possible subject on H&V but the one thing we all have in common is a love of this club. Nobody wants Villa out of the top flight in order to be proven right. One or two might consider it better for their sanity on a weekly basis to see us picking up points in Division 1 rather than struggling for points in the Prem, but even then I'd wager that everyone can see what a financial nightmare relegation would be.
This business of calling people's loyalty into question based on their confidence in a regime needs to stop. Some people are natural pessimists, some people are natural optimists. It's really not that difficult to grasp why people disagree on future fortunes.
Post by: themossman on July 20, 2020, 12:38:54 PM
Oops - wrong thread.
Post by: Ads on July 20, 2020, 12:47:33 PM
Where abouts are you between seat holding and face palming?
Post by: Clampy on July 20, 2020, 12:49:56 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 20, 2020, 01:03:33 PM
Bonus Villa supporting points aren't handed out for how beamingly positive one can be on an internet messageboard.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 01:05:31 PM
It's the constant miserableness of some which I don't get. I've seen posters on here over the years jump on the post match thread when we have lost but are nowhere to be seen if we've won a game and don't return until we've lost again. I honestly don't know what they get out of it.
Yes, that is twattish behaviour, I agree.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on July 20, 2020, 01:05:36 PM
Last time I was confident of beating Arse was in 2015 as I settled into my seat at the cup final, as our name was on the cup. Hence my pessimism now - well it's more protectionism than pessimism I think. I think I'm more in Darth Villa camp where I temper my disappointment by lowering my expectations all while desperately hoping to be proved wrong.
So I'm hoping we do it, obviously, to think I would be happy for us to lose just so I could say I told you so would be ludicrous!!
Post by: Clampy on July 20, 2020, 01:14:25 PM
At a wild guess maybe they're content when Villa win and need to vent/ seek solace when we lose.
Bonus Villa supporting points aren't handed out for how beamingly positive one can be on an internet messageboard.
Is it about being beamingly positive or taking the rough with the smooth?
Post by: themossman on July 20, 2020, 01:17:36 PM
It's the constant miserableness of some which I don't get. I've seen posters on here over the years jump on the post match thread when we have lost but are nowhere to be seen if we've won a game and don't return until we've lost again. I honestly don't know what they get out of it.
Yes, that is twattish behaviour, I agree.
It is but there are also plenty of twats whose first instinct after a win seems to be to jump on the thread and start calling out smith doubters, pant wetters etc etc
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 20, 2020, 01:19:33 PM
At a wild guess maybe they're content when Villa win and need to vent/ seek solace when we lose.
Bonus Villa supporting points aren't handed out for how beamingly positive one can be on an internet messageboard.
Indeed
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
I just find it a strange attitude to see the positives for every club in the battle except for the one you support.
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 20, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 01:27:28 PM
Post by: Chipsticks on July 20, 2020, 01:32:14 PM
I think one of the best things you can do in life is to not obsess too much on things you have no direct control over. Whatever happens will happen - we'll still have a football club to go and watch at the end of it. Isn't that what it's all about?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 20, 2020, 01:44:08 PM
Post by: Ian. on July 20, 2020, 01:46:25 PM
We should call it the Seattle Nash Scale.On the fence.
Where abouts are you between seat holding and face palming?
Post by: brian green on July 20, 2020, 01:55:39 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2020, 03:53:29 PM
As I said if you read the thread , I was repeating what someone said as I thought it was ridiculous and funny.Being pessimistic is one thing. Moaning about everything a dozen times over is a bit counter-productive.But on here, on this very thread, the accusation is being thrown about (by the optimistic) that being pessimistic equates to wanting the club to be relegated in order to be proved right. That's utter shit.
No it isn't.
Here you go...It’s comments like this that convince me that some fans want to see us relegated.Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Yes, pending expected results elsewhere, Citeh beating Watford, Arsenal beating Watford and hoping Everton turn up against Bournemouth.
So we are hoping to beat Arsenal, who outplayed Citeh at the weekend but hope that said Citeh beat Watford and then the Arsenal we manage to beat return to form to beat Watford, with nothing to play for in the league and one eye on the cup final...….Okaaaaayyyy!
We are Aston Villa.
It was a joke. Not my opinion but I think it was Rambo who said it and meant it.
Post by: wince on July 20, 2020, 03:56:07 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 05:49:01 PM
Post by: eamonn on July 20, 2020, 05:53:10 PM
We should call it the Seattle Nash Scale.
Where abouts are you between seat holding and face palming?
Heh
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on July 20, 2020, 07:00:55 PM
The point I'm making Hilts and what others are making, is it's fine to think we are going down, and it's fine to think Smith is not up to the job.It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
There it is.
But it starts to piss people off when it's rammed down your throat 10 times a day, as I say to make everyone aware that if we do go down 'you know where you heard it 1st' .
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 20, 2020, 07:14:35 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 20, 2020, 07:30:41 PM
A stat ahead of tomorrow, Watford are 0-14 down from their last two games against citeh. They've lost all of the last 12 meetings with an aggregate score of 6-46.
Please don’t post statistics like those, you just know what’ll happen next...
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2020, 07:38:09 PM
A stat ahead of tomorrow, Watford are 0-14 down from their last two games against citeh. They've lost all of the last 12 meetings with an aggregate score of 6-46.
Please don’t post statistics like those, you just know what’ll happen next...
Yep, they get twatted.
Post by: Richie on July 20, 2020, 07:46:51 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2020, 08:23:52 PM
Looking on the positive side for Sunday (if it goes that far), looks like Everton could be arsed again.
It will go that far even if we lose tomorrow, providing Watford get spanked by Manchester City. If Watford do lose heavily, a draw would be decent enough for us as we are probably going to need to win at West Ham whatever and that point would put us ahead of Bournemouth.
Post by: eamonn on July 20, 2020, 08:55:23 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2020, 09:07:38 PM
So some supporters want us to go down and others Have their excuses ready if we stay up.It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Not sure where this ranks in the better supporters than you,
Pretty high me thinks.
Post by: Olof's Beard on July 20, 2020, 09:14:03 PM
A stat ahead of tomorrow, Watford are 0-14 down from their last two games against citeh. They've lost all of the last 12 meetings with an aggregate score of 6-46.
Guardiola has confirmed that he will be rotating his squad for the last two leagues games, the swine.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2020, 09:19:27 PM
So some supporters want us to go down and others Have their excuses ready if we stay up.It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Not sure where this ranks in the better supporters than you,
Pretty high me thinks.
methinks*
Post by: brian green on July 20, 2020, 09:42:13 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 20, 2020, 09:48:56 PM
So some supporters want us to go down and others Have their excuses ready if we stay up.It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Not sure where this ranks in the better supporters than you,
Pretty high me thinks.
God that must of been bugging you to actually scroll through the last 6 or 7 pages to seek it out.
If some people want to be perennially negative including yourself good luck, it has been crap enough for most of the season to induce negativity in most of us including me. If I want to point out that in my opinion, if we manage to stay up, some posters will say that we are lucky, I’m entitled to do that or am I not? I’m not saying the same people won’t want us to stay up, just that they will say were lucky. I don’t think I’ve made one comment about some supporters being better than others or some supporters wanting us to get relegated, you’ve draw those conclusions yourself. Unless you want to spend some more time scrolling through pages of various threads to prove some point?
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 20, 2020, 09:56:00 PM
But please just do something extraordinary Villa!
Post by: eric woolban woolban on July 20, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
Thankfully the reserves are still capable of winning matches.A stat ahead of tomorrow, Watford are 0-14 down from their last two games against citeh. They've lost all of the last 12 meetings with an aggregate score of 6-46.
Guardiola has confirmed that he will be rotating his squad for the last two leagues games, the swine.
Post by: themossman on July 20, 2020, 09:59:18 PM
Why does it matter?
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on July 20, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
It’s amazing that we’re still in with a chance. Win 2 games and stay up. Sadly I just can’t see us changing the habit we’ve had all season of bottling things.Personally I think it's unlikely we can pull it off, but if it we do, I think it will be be one of the most amazing feats I've witnessed in 32 years of following us and probably the most joy. I so much want Deano and the lads to succeed.
But please just do something extraordinary Villa!
Post by: Rory on July 20, 2020, 10:35:47 PM
Thankfully the reserves are still capable of winning matches.A stat ahead of tomorrow, Watford are 0-14 down from their last two games against citeh. They've lost all of the last 12 meetings with an aggregate score of 6-46.
Guardiola has confirmed that he will be rotating his squad for the last two leagues games, the swine.
Weren't there rules introduced, or at least discussed, to stop safe clubs playing reserves in later matches? Can't remember if anything came from it.
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on July 20, 2020, 10:42:29 PM
No excuses from me if we go down. If we do go down it's because we haven't been good enough and the manager is included in that. No one is a better fan than the other...but whatever my opinion at least I don't have to make the same point on every single Heroes Discussion topic.. that were S**t, Smith is a clown and Purslow doesn't know what he's doing on numerous occasions throughout the day and probably why I have only made 800 posts in 10 years on here.So some supporters want us to go down and others Have their excuses ready if we stay up.It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Not sure where this ranks in the better supporters than you,
Pretty high me thinks.
That's probably why I spend most of my time on the Villa Memories section!
UTV
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2020, 10:45:08 PM
It’s amazing that we’re still in with a chance. Win 2 games and stay up. Sadly I just can’t see us changing the habit we’ve had all season of bottling things.
But please just do something extraordinary Villa!
It really isn't, given the number of points we've got and the quality of teams around us it's entirely expected for us to have a decent chance to stay up. This is what I meant earlier, people comment about us being 'lucky' to still be in the mix and clubs doing us favours as if it's only us in the fight that have problems.
Post by: wince on July 20, 2020, 11:37:03 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 11:44:21 PM
Which is fine, as long as we acknowledge - should it come to pass - that we weren't unlucky to go down.It’s amazing that we’re still in with a chance. Win 2 games and stay up. Sadly I just can’t see us changing the habit we’ve had all season of bottling things.
But please just do something extraordinary Villa!
It really isn't, given the number of points we've got and the quality of teams around us it's entirely expected for us to have a decent chance to stay up. This is what I meant earlier, people comment about us being 'lucky' to still be in the mix and clubs doing us favours as if it's only us in the fight that have problems.
Post by: Ad@m on July 20, 2020, 11:44:48 PM
Thankfully the reserves are still capable of winning matches.A stat ahead of tomorrow, Watford are 0-14 down from their last two games against citeh. They've lost all of the last 12 meetings with an aggregate score of 6-46.
Guardiola has confirmed that he will be rotating his squad for the last two leagues games, the swine.
Weren't there rules introduced, or at least discussed, to stop safe clubs playing reserves in later matches? Can't remember if anything came from it.
I thought that went away when clubs had to choose squads of 25 players as that effectively meant that if a player was good enough to be in your squad he was good enough to not be deemed a pisstake if he played and a team lost unexpectedly.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 20, 2020, 11:54:23 PM
My viewpoint has always been that in the league you pretty much always deserve to finish where you finish. Even if it does come down to West Ham and something mad say like a last minute winner for us, if we finish 4th bottom that’s what our seasons results have meant we deserved. Likewise we go down we deserve it.Which is fine, as long as we acknowledge - should it come to pass - that we weren't unlucky to go down.It’s amazing that we’re still in with a chance. Win 2 games and stay up. Sadly I just can’t see us changing the habit we’ve had all season of bottling things.
But please just do something extraordinary Villa!
It really isn't, given the number of points we've got and the quality of teams around us it's entirely expected for us to have a decent chance to stay up. This is what I meant earlier, people comment about us being 'lucky' to still be in the mix and clubs doing us favours as if it's only us in the fight that have problems.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 21, 2020, 12:01:00 AM
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 21, 2020, 06:38:56 AM
I'd normally say that the table doesn't lie, but this season whoever finishes wherever they don't want to has got a case for saying that it's not exactly telling the truth. We haven't all been treated equally and you can't get round that fact.
VAR does feel like that although we’ve had a couple of decisions go our way post lockdown and one or two against. The 5 sub rule has impacted all of us further down the table, agreed in that.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 21, 2020, 06:42:50 AM
itsallaboutme.comSo some supporters want us to go down and others Have their excuses ready if we stay up.It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Not sure where this ranks in the better supporters than you,
Pretty high me thinks.
God that must of been bugging you to actually scroll through the last 6 or 7 pages to seek it out.
If some people want to be perennially negative including yourself good luck, it has been crap enough for most of the season to induce negativity in most of us including me. If I want to point out that in my opinion, if we manage to stay up, some posters will say that we are lucky, I’m entitled to do that or am I not? I’m not saying the same people won’t want us to stay up, just that they will say were lucky. I don’t think I’ve made one comment about some supporters being better than others or some supporters wanting us to get relegated, you’ve draw those conclusions yourself. Unless you want to spend some more time scrolling through pages of various threads to prove some point?
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 21, 2020, 07:42:42 AM
itsallaboutme.comSo some supporters want us to go down and others Have their excuses ready if we stay up.It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Not sure where this ranks in the better supporters than you,
Pretty high me thinks.
God that must of been bugging you to actually scroll through the last 6 or 7 pages to seek it out.
If some people want to be perennially negative including yourself good luck, it has been crap enough for most of the season to induce negativity in most of us including me. If I want to point out that in my opinion, if we manage to stay up, some posters will say that we are lucky, I’m entitled to do that or am I not? I’m not saying the same people won’t want us to stay up, just that they will say were lucky. I don’t think I’ve made one comment about some supporters being better than others or some supporters wanting us to get relegated, you’ve draw those conclusions yourself. Unless you want to spend some more time scrolling through pages of various threads to prove some point?
That took a lot of thought and insight, we’ll done you.
UTV
Post by: Legion on July 21, 2020, 07:44:59 AM
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 21, 2020, 07:47:05 AM
Bizarrely feel less nervous about tonight than either Crystal Palace or Everton. Maybe because on paper it’s a less winnable game. But early in the day yet though...
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 21, 2020, 08:01:12 AM
in 1963/64 Liverpool won the First Division, Leeds the Second Division.
Villa finished 4th from bottom. We lost to Arsenal away but beat them at home, we drew with West Ham at home but beat them away.
Just need history to repeat itself. ;)
Hopefully we won't go down a few seasons after, leading to a slide to the 3rd tier
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2020, 08:16:09 AM
I used the word excruciating about this season and was taken to task for describing it as such. In my personal opinion the slow motion, money driven car crash that the 19/20 season has become is the most painful, not least because of exclusion from it, I have ever endured.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 21, 2020, 08:32:07 AM
I'd normally say that the table doesn't lie, but this season whoever finishes wherever they don't want to has got a case for saying that it's not exactly telling the truth. We haven't all been treated equally and you can't get round that fact.
VAR does feel like that although we’ve had a couple of decisions go our way post lockdown and one or two against. The 5 sub rule has impacted all of us further down the table, agreed in that.
The 5 sub rule seems to have impacted us more than anyone, I’m thinking of the Chelsea and Liverpool games where they changed the game. Klopp wouldn’t have made a triple substitution (bringing on 3 big hitters) without the 5 sub rule.
The there’s the fact that we played less home games in front of a crowd than any other team in the bottom half.
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 09:08:05 AM
Which is fine, as long as we acknowledge - should it come to pass - that we weren't unlucky to go down.It’s amazing that we’re still in with a chance. Win 2 games and stay up. Sadly I just can’t see us changing the habit we’ve had all season of bottling things.
But please just do something extraordinary Villa!
It really isn't, given the number of points we've got and the quality of teams around us it's entirely expected for us to have a decent chance to stay up. This is what I meant earlier, people comment about us being 'lucky' to still be in the mix and clubs doing us favours as if it's only us in the fight that have problems.
Has anyone done that? We've been on the end of some shitty luck (losing Wesley and Heaton for the season in the space of 20 minutes was a hammer blow and one any club near the bottom would struggle with) but if we go down it'll be because we've dropped so many points by conceding in the last 15minutes. Which leads nicely to:
The 5 sub rule seems to have impacted us more than anyone, I’m thinking of the Chelsea and Liverpool games where they changed the game. Klopp wouldn’t have made a triple substitution (bringing on 3 big hitters) without the 5 sub rule.
Part of th eproblem here is that Smith hasn't adapted to it. He's making the changes in the same way and at the same times as he was when it was 3 subs. Against Everton, for example, we were on top and on course for 3 points but they made 2 double subs in the space of 10 that changed the game and we finished the game with 3 subs unused whilst we watched them overrun us in midfield. Having better players on the bench is great but sometimes you just need to break up the play and we don't use our subs well enough to do that. the change just further highlights how poor we've been at that.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 21, 2020, 09:13:42 AM
you would prefer me to write paragraphs explaining why I don’t think I am a better fan than everybody else. Sad.itsallaboutme.comSo some supporters want us to go down and others Have their excuses ready if we stay up.It's starting to feel that some people want us to fail just so they are proven right on a supporters forum...sad.
The narrative with some will all be about how lucky we were to stay up if we do
Not sure where this ranks in the better supporters than you,
Pretty high me thinks.
God that must of been bugging you to actually scroll through the last 6 or 7 pages to seek it out.
If some people want to be perennially negative including yourself good luck, it has been crap enough for most of the season to induce negativity in most of us including me. If I want to point out that in my opinion, if we manage to stay up, some posters will say that we are lucky, I’m entitled to do that or am I not? I’m not saying the same people won’t want us to stay up, just that they will say were lucky. I don’t think I’ve made one comment about some supporters being better than others or some supporters wanting us to get relegated, you’ve draw those conclusions yourself. Unless you want to spend some more time scrolling through pages of various threads to prove some point?
That took a lot of thought and insight, we’ll done you.
UTV
Post by: The Edge on July 21, 2020, 09:17:43 AM
Then there's the impact var has had. Who can forget Kevin fkn Friends stitch up job?The table doesn't lie is still true but for this season several caveats need to be added. As for our plight I think Arsenal have hit a vein of form which can be good and bad for us. I think we can get a draw tonight and I fancy 2-2. Man City to beat Watford although they aren't firing on all cylinders right now. Arsenal would be desperate to go out with a bang on the last day which will hopefully do for Watford. Escape is possible so I will keep the faith. UTV.I'd normally say that the table doesn't lie, but this season whoever finishes wherever they don't want to has got a case for saying that it's not exactly telling the truth. We haven't all been treated equally and you can't get round that fact.
VAR does feel like that although we’ve had a couple of decisions go our way post lockdown and one or two against. The 5 sub rule has impacted all of us further down the table, agreed in that.
The 5 sub rule seems to have impacted us more than anyone, I’m thinking of the Chelsea and Liverpool games where they changed the game. Klopp wouldn’t have made a triple substitution (bringing on 3 big hitters) without the 5 sub rule.
The there’s the fact that we played less home games in front of a crowd than any other team in the bottom half.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 21, 2020, 09:41:54 AM
I'd normally say that the table doesn't lie, but this season whoever finishes wherever they don't want to has got a case for saying that it's not exactly telling the truth. We haven't all been treated equally and you can't get round that fact.
VAR does feel like that although we’ve had a couple of decisions go our way post lockdown and one or two against. The 5 sub rule has impacted all of us further down the table, agreed in that.
Not just VAR either. The imbalance of fixtures with and without crowds has been a massive factor too. Villa Park would have been rammed to the rafters these last few games, and it's without question that fans add a little more intensity to performances (well, sometimes in our team's case!).
Arsenal at an empty Villa Park will be a much less daunting experience for their players tonight than it could have been, whereas Bournemouth played them at their place in December, pre-lockdown and managed to get a 1-1 draw out of it.
Post by: Mister E on July 21, 2020, 09:54:36 AM
Get what you're saying and in no way a robust defence of Smith but:The 5 sub rule seems to have impacted us more than anyone, I’m thinking of the Chelsea and Liverpool games where they changed the game. Klopp wouldn’t have made a triple substitution (bringing on 3 big hitters) without the 5 sub rule.
Part of the problem here is that Smith hasn't adapted to it. He's making the changes in the same way and at the same times as he was when it was 3 subs. Against Everton, for example, we were on top and on course for 3 points but they made 2 double subs in the space of 10 that changed the game and we finished the game with 3 subs unused whilst we watched them overrun us in midfield. Having better players on the bench is great but sometimes you just need to break up the play and we don't use our subs well enough to do that. the change just further highlights how poor we've been at that.
- breaking up the play cuts both ways sometimes
- the paucity of our on-the-bench options leaves me with little doubt that we'd be weakening the team to bring some of them on, even if the team is knackered.
I've said before, Smith has the option of having some young tyros on the bench: bringing them on to run around and disrupt the opposition would be preferable to watching Ange stroll around ...
Post by: villa for life on July 21, 2020, 09:58:35 AM
We’ll know in 12 hours time whether we can take the fight to the next game or whether our fate will have been sealed tonight.
It’s high time for us to pull off a “shock” result. Let that be tonight.
Post by: Clampy on July 21, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Post by: The Edge on July 21, 2020, 10:43:56 AM
I'm surprised he hasn't used the likes of Vassilev more or given Louie Barry a place on the bench. His subs are a tad predictable at times.Those players can't be ready for the first team or they would of tried them. Our bench just isn't that strong compared to some so the 5 subs rule has definitely impacted us. Changing the rules half way through the season smacks of the PL being bullied by the money bags clubs. It was unnecessary in my view and only benefitted those with squad players that would make the first team of any club outside the top 6. Wolves being the exception to this but what's gone on there for the last 3 seasons is pretty remarkable. Another reason for me to hate the modern game.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 21, 2020, 10:49:27 AM
I would normally use the expression that the table does not lie. In normal circumstances it is indisputable reality. These however are not normal circumstances. The cumulative outcome of games played this season has been skewed partly by Covid 19 but that could have had compliance by the termination of the season by lockdown. Far more damage to the fair and even handed running of the leagues has been due to the manipulation of money driven television contracts.
I used the word excruciating about this season and was taken to task for describing it as such. In my personal opinion the slow motion, money driven car crash that the 19/20 season has become is the most painful, not least because of exclusion from it, I have ever endured.
I suppose it's all a matter of opinion. I think not being able to be there has added an element of unreality so it doesn't feel anywhere as bad.
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 21, 2020, 11:11:27 AM
Couple that with the nonsense of VAR, the ridiculous decision to carry on with 5 substitutes next season, and the inevitable ruling to throw out City's ban from the Champion's League, and it is clear that those in power have no interest in seeing "lesser" English clubs compete with the sinister six ever again.
Post by: mr underhill on July 21, 2020, 11:29:05 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Get what you're saying and in no way a robust defence of Smith but:The 5 sub rule seems to have impacted us more than anyone, I’m thinking of the Chelsea and Liverpool games where they changed the game. Klopp wouldn’t have made a triple substitution (bringing on 3 big hitters) without the 5 sub rule.
Part of the problem here is that Smith hasn't adapted to it. He's making the changes in the same way and at the same times as he was when it was 3 subs. Against Everton, for example, we were on top and on course for 3 points but they made 2 double subs in the space of 10 that changed the game and we finished the game with 3 subs unused whilst we watched them overrun us in midfield. Having better players on the bench is great but sometimes you just need to break up the play and we don't use our subs well enough to do that. the change just further highlights how poor we've been at that.
- breaking up the play cuts both ways sometimes
- the paucity of our on-the-bench options leaves me with little doubt that we'd be weakening the team to bring some of them on, even if the team is knackered.
I've said before, Smith has the option of having some young tyros on the bench: bringing them on to run around and disrupt the opposition would be preferable to watching Ange stroll around ...
The last line is my biggest problem with Smith over the last month or so. Against Everton Hourihane and McGinn looked like they were running through treacle in the last 10 minutes and were up against a a midfield that ahd been 3/4s replaced with fresh legs. Vassilev/Ramsey/Clarke and Barry/Archer on (with Jack moving into the middle so the latter could go into the front 3) might not have changed the match but it certainly wouldn't have made us weaker, in my opinion. Having a bench with people like Lansbury and Jota on seems a waste of time right now.
Post by: Clampy on July 21, 2020, 02:01:15 PM
Post by: The Fish on July 21, 2020, 02:12:19 PM
It doesn't account for luck, or officiating errors. By almost every metric Newcastle United should be in the relegation zone, but we're not.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 21, 2020, 02:15:52 PM
The table does lie.
It doesn't account for luck, or officiating errors. By almost every metric Newcastle United should be in the relegation zone, but we're not.
Please don't wish us luck. I couldn't bear anyone liking us.
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 02:18:30 PM
I don't mind Jota being on the bench. He's someone who could come on and lay a good ball off and he nearly equalised against Chelsea. Lansbury's space could go to someone else though. (He'll come on and score now I've said that).
I do have less issue with Jota than Lansbury but his lack of pace bothers me.
Post by: The Fish on July 21, 2020, 02:19:42 PM
Please don't wish us luck. I couldn't bear anyone liking us.No worries on that front.
;)
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2020, 02:20:36 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on July 21, 2020, 02:26:01 PM
It's the transparency of it all that leaves a bitter taste for me. The insistence on finishing out the PL and Championship without fans while every other league was curtailed. The powers that be weren't at all concerned about the impact on all the lower league clubs that we will see folding over the next several months, but any time a justification for carrying on with the Championship and PL was required, they would happily cite the "need to uphold the integrity of the league(s)".In terms of the lower leagues playing on, my guess would this was more about the cost and feasibility of testing and other arrangements required rather than any lack of care about their futures - also, there's little TV revenue down there, so carrying on would probably have brought more hardship than cancelling for most of them.
Couple that with the nonsense of VAR, the ridiculous decision to carry on with 5 substitutes next season, and the inevitable ruling to throw out City's ban from the Champion's League, and it is clear that those in power have no interest in seeing "lesser" English clubs compete with the sinister six ever again.
In terms of integrity, whilst I'll feel a bit had done by if we're relegated I still think it's a fairer outcome tham PPG or voiding. If we go down it will be primarily because we weren't good enough, not because we didn't have home fans against Sheffield.
I agree with your points re refereeing, subs etc.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2020, 02:47:27 PM
By the time you get to Jota and Lansbury, you know you've stopped scraping the barrel and have actually got through to the other side. Neither are even Championship standard, so shouldn't be within a million miles of a Premier League squad.
I think they’re both Championship standard, but lower/mid-table. Doesn’t change your point though!
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 02:50:56 PM
By the time you get to Jota and Lansbury, you know you've stopped scraping the barrel and have actually got through to the other side. Neither are even Championship standard, so shouldn't be within a million miles of a Premier League squad.
I think they’re both Championship standard, but lower/mid-table. Doesn’t change your point though!
Yep, that's why I think their inclusion is just blocking space for us to get some of the academy players involved.
Post by: Mister E on July 21, 2020, 03:02:38 PM
Which is what really irritates me: Jota and Ange add no obvious value to the matchday squad so why not throw in a couple of youngsters and let them run around disrupting the oppo.By the time you get to Jota and Lansbury, you know you've stopped scraping the barrel and have actually got through to the other side. Neither are even Championship standard, so shouldn't be within a million miles of a Premier League squad.
I think they’re both Championship standard, but lower/mid-table. Doesn’t change your point though!
Yep, that's why I think their inclusion is just blocking space for us to get some of the academy players involved.
I still marvel at the inclusion of Graham Fenton into the starting line-up in the 1994 LCF by BFR.
Post by: Big Ming on July 21, 2020, 04:22:26 PM
That's because Smith sticks him out on the right when he looks like he should be tucked in behind the striker.I don't mind Jota being on the bench. He's someone who could come on and lay a good ball off and he nearly equalised against Chelsea. Lansbury's space could go to someone else though. (He'll come on and score now I've said that).
I do have less issue with Jota than Lansbury but his lack of pace bothers me.
He has guile, not pace.
Post by: Le Lapin on July 22, 2020, 12:23:15 AM
Its all in our hands now. A win and a draw should do it, pending expected results elsewhere of course. If we balls this up we deserve to go down.
It’s in our hands pending results elsewhere?!
Yes, pending expected results elsewhere, Citeh beating Watford, Arsenal beating Watford and hoping Everton turn up against Bournemouth.
So we are hoping to beat Arsenal, who outplayed Citeh at the weekend but hope that said Citeh beat Watford and then the Arsenal we manage to beat return to form to beat Watford, with nothing to play for in the league and one eye on the cup final...….Okaaaaayyyy!
Okaaaayyyy!.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2020, 12:42:30 AM
Post by: David_Nab on July 22, 2020, 01:09:35 AM
As for the others , I can't see Arteta wanting 2 loss's going into an FA Cup final and there will be players playing for their place in team but more so Watford are dire.Bournmouth are a little better and have shown some spirit lately but are weak at the back especially if Ake miss's out again and Everton have been solid since the restart apart from a horror show against Wolves.There players are playing for future under a newish boss and also has some youngsters who are keen to do well
Post by: dave17 on July 22, 2020, 01:19:57 AM
- goal difference
- goals scored
Which leaves us ok if we both go down 1-0 and 2-0....as long as Bournemouth don’t win....
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2020, 01:26:07 AM
If this means I'm one of the miseable bastards, so be it. I just hope to be one happy bastard on Sunday, as I have been tonight.
Post by: Hillbilly on July 22, 2020, 03:17:29 AM
I still have the fear. But it is now combined with hope. My natural pessimism is still causing me to go through all the bad combinations of results in my head. I almost won't let myself think about staying up as a defence mechanism, because it will be so horrifically disappointing if we don't, now, having done so well in the last three games.How are you reading my mind from the other side of the planet?
If this means I'm one of the miseable bastards, so be it. I just hope to be one happy bastard on Sunday, as I have been tonight.
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2020, 10:28:46 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 22, 2020, 10:37:24 AM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 22, 2020, 10:41:12 AM
I still have the fear. But it is now combined with hope. My natural pessimism is still causing me to go through all the bad combinations of results in my head. I almost won't let myself think about staying up as a defence mechanism, because it will be so horrifically disappointing if we don't, now, having done so well in the last three games.
If this means I'm one of the miseable bastards, so be it. I just hope to be one happy bastard on Sunday, as I have been tonight.
I feel exactly the same, and I'm really sorry that I have a need to state it. I have a horrible feeling that Villa and Watford will both get beaten on Sunday, and that Bournemouth will get to stay up by winning at Everton. One way or another, Sunday is going to be an ordeal.
Post by: Ads on July 22, 2020, 10:46:24 AM
I'm alive to the possibility Bournemouth can win, but I don't consider it very likely.
Post by: Rory on July 22, 2020, 10:57:41 AM
We are mostly conditioned to expect the worst, but other than our natural pessimism, there's nothing to suggest we aren't best-placed out of the three.
In many ways that makes it even more nerve-wracking, and anything could happen, but this time yesterday I fully expected to be going into the last day still on 31 points, so I cannot bring myself to be too unhappy!
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2020, 11:01:13 AM
Any repentance from the miserable bastards?
Apologies for this comment. I hadn't slept since Sunday night and I was mainlining merlot throughout the match. Miserable gits are A-OK by me!
Post by: Ads on July 22, 2020, 11:02:38 AM
Any repentance from the miserable bastards?
Apologies for this comment. I hadn't slept since Sunday night and I was mainlining merlot throughout the match. Miserable gits are A-OK by me!
Are you making these comments outside your front gate, in a wooly cardigan, with a very sad looking Mrs Sexual Ealing stood next to you?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2020, 11:07:31 AM
Any repentance from the miserable bastards?
Apologies for this comment. I hadn't slept since Sunday night and I was mainlining merlot throughout the match. Miserable gits are A-OK by me!
Are you making these comments outside your front gate, in a wooly cardigan, with a very sad looking Mrs Sexual Ealing stood next to you?
Mrs Sexual Ealing is away, and has been replaced by my reprobate mate from Bradford, who is responsible for the lack of sleep the previous night. I am sorely lacking the moral guidance and disapproving facial gestures of Mrs Sexual Ealing.
Post by: Big Ming on July 22, 2020, 11:24:13 AM
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 22, 2020, 11:29:27 AM
Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Wigan points deduction will save them.
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 22, 2020, 11:29:48 AM
Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Maybe, but I honestly don’t care about any one else at the moment, just want us to stay up!
Post by: Nunkin1965 on July 22, 2020, 11:34:34 AM
Any repentance from the miserable bastards?
Apologies for this comment. I hadn't slept since Sunday night and I was mainlining merlot throughout the match. Miserable gits are A-OK by me!
It’s really easy to get frustrated with the wave of negativity sometimes but I can fully understand why it happens. It’s never been something that I like to do even when things are bad.
Takes all sorts though!
We all have a desire to get us over the line though and Dean and the team have managed to put us in with a shot of survival.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 22, 2020, 11:35:44 AM
Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Wigan points deduction will save them.
I'm not so sure. Has there ever been a posthumous points deduction before? I think it'll be from the start of next season.
Post by: andyh on July 22, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
The rags themselves had points deducted ‘in flight’Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Wigan points deduction will save them.
I'm not so sure. Has there ever been a posthumous points deduction before? I think it'll be from the start of next season.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 22, 2020, 11:49:43 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 22, 2020, 11:51:25 AM
Post by: maidstonevillain on July 22, 2020, 11:53:47 AM
"Of course, much depends on Wigan's appeal against a 12-point deduction for going into administration. That sanction will be applied after their game at the DW Stadium, so they go into their home match against Fulham unofficially occupying the final relegation place."
Post by: Ad@m on July 22, 2020, 12:09:33 PM
Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Wigan points deduction will save them.
And the small matter of Charlton playing Leeds away...
Post by: Ditton33 on July 22, 2020, 12:15:53 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2020, 12:22:37 PM
It's funny how it goes isn't it? Yesterday couldn't have gone much better for us, aside from scoring a couple more maybe, but now I'm bricking it about last day!Amazing turnaround yesterday and it's not behind the realm of possibility that it could all go pear shape on Sunday. Watford draw we lose and .....
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 22, 2020, 12:40:42 PM
It's funny how it goes isn't it? Yesterday couldn't have gone much better for us, aside from scoring a couple more maybe, but now I'm bricking it about last day!Amazing turnaround yesterday and it's not behind the realm of possibility that it could all go pear shape on Sunday. Watford draw we lose and .....
See what you’re doing there mate 😉
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 22, 2020, 12:48:28 PM
Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Maybe, but I honestly don’t care about any one else at the moment, just want us to stay up!
I'd prefer Man Utd to miss out on CL qualification than the Rags going down.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 22, 2020, 01:02:15 PM
Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Maybe, but I honestly don’t care about any one else at the moment, just want us to stay up!
I'd prefer Man Utd to miss out on CL qualification than the Rags going down.
Frankly I’m disappointed with your attitude.
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2020, 01:05:32 PM
Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Wigan points deduction will save them.
And the small matter of Charlton playing Leeds away...
How Leeds are gonig to approach the game today is a really tough one to call. getting promoted after such a long time means they could be in party mode or the pressure being off could make them open up a bit. I'd say it's highly unlikely blues go down but not impossible.
Post by: Richard E on July 22, 2020, 01:05:42 PM
Post by: The Edge on July 22, 2020, 01:21:48 PM
If I could have one of either Blose going down or Albion staying down, then its the latter, I thnk.How about option C?
Blues get relegated and the Boggies miss out on promotion.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2020, 01:29:26 PM
Not only is our destiny now in our own hands to stay up, but I just noticed that the Noses are in a precarious position and could possibly go down.
Oh the double joy if both came to pass.
Maybe, but I honestly don’t care about any one else at the moment, just want us to stay up!
I'd prefer Man Utd to miss out on CL qualification than the Rags going down.
Not for me. Man United are light years ahead of us in terms of revenue and ability to attract players. So, at the moment, are Arsenal, Tottenham, Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool. Do we really want no marks Leicester opening a similar chasm? It just makes it all the harder for us to break into the elite in the next few years, if we are able to stay up.
Plus, Leicester can get fucked after their match fixing last week.
Post by: CT on July 22, 2020, 01:37:31 PM
If I could have one of either Blose going down or Albion staying down, then its the latter, I thnk.How about option C?
Blues get relegated and the Boggies miss out on promotion.
Option C for me please, without doubt.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 22, 2020, 01:41:51 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 22, 2020, 01:48:33 PM
I'd like to see all our local teams doing well.
In League Two, from a safe distance.
Post by: ez on July 22, 2020, 01:56:59 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 22, 2020, 01:57:56 PM
Post by: Fred Crump on July 22, 2020, 02:03:05 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 22, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
I'd like to see all our local teams doing well.
Same. But you can't deny how funny it would be, Bluenoses renting out their stadium to a team in a higher division than them! :D
Post by: mrfuse on July 22, 2020, 02:26:22 PM
I hadn’t realised until recently that Wet Spam had a game in hand. Yes, a very hard won point with a couple of key players picking up knocks would be really useful
Namely Antonio
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2020, 02:38:48 PM
Post by: Fred Crump on July 22, 2020, 02:42:19 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 22, 2020, 02:46:09 PM
Post by: mr underhill on July 22, 2020, 02:47:44 PM
Post by: themossman on July 22, 2020, 02:52:34 PM
Post by: Smithy on July 22, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
I think the point is a red herring. They’ve done enough already when you look at the insane GD swing required for anyone to get past them.
Indeed, if they lose 5-0 tonight, we'd STILL have to beat them 4-0 on Sunday to go above them (and Watford need an even bigger swing than that, and we'd BOTH have to do that for them to go down with Norwich and Bournemouth). They are safe, even if it's mathematically possible to catch them.
Post by: pelty on July 22, 2020, 03:15:05 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 03:17:54 PM
I know this is obvious to all but me, but a win is not enough on Sunday, right? Assuming all teams win, we need Watford not to win by two goals more than us? Am I thinking straight here?Yes. But if we win Watford need to score at least 3 goals which seems improbable to me.
Post by: themossman on July 22, 2020, 03:18:15 PM
Whether they are technically, mathematically safe is a moot point.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 22, 2020, 03:20:58 PM
West Ham to take a point tonight and be firmly on the beach Sunday. We win 2-0 at their place and have a totally easy Sunday 🙏🏻
West Ham have nothing to fear. They would need these results to be relegated:
Lose by 8 vs Man U and 3 vs Villa, and Watford win by 4
Lose by 7 vs Man U and 4 vs Villa, and Watford win by 4
Lose by 6 vs Man U and 4 vs Villa, and Watford win by 5
Lose by 5 vs Man U and 5 vs Villa, and Watford win by 5
Lose by 4 vs Man U and 5 vs Villa, and Watford win by 6
Lose by 3 vs Man U and 6 vs Villa, and Watford win by 6
Lose by 2 vs Man U and 6 vs Villa, and Watford win by 7
Lose by 1 vs Man U and 7 vs Villa, and Watford win by 7
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2020, 04:27:29 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 22, 2020, 04:48:46 PM
Hopefully West Ham play like we did that day.
Post by: lovejoy on July 22, 2020, 04:49:22 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2020, 04:53:01 PM
Post by: IFWaters on July 22, 2020, 05:30:28 PM
2) IF WE DRAW, we need Watford to not win
3) IF WE WIN, we need Watford to not win by more than 2 goals than us
So what Bournemouth does only matters if we lose.
And as long as Watford's goal diff is same or worse than us, we stay up (cos weve scored more goals)
Re (1) if Watford lose by 1 goal we can lose by 1 or 2 goals and still stay up
SIMPLES !
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 22, 2020, 07:55:41 PM
West Ham to take a point tonight and be firmly on the beach Sunday. We win 2-0 at their place and have a totally easy Sunday 🙏🏻
This is happening
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 22, 2020, 07:57:57 PM
So what do we need to happen:
- West Ham win v Watford
- Southampton win v Bournemouth
- Man City smash Watford
- We take something v Arsenal
- We beat West Ham who are safe and on the beach
- Arsenal beat Watford
Simple right ;-)
This is happening
Post by: CT Villan on July 22, 2020, 08:11:16 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2020, 08:31:40 PM
Post by: mike on July 22, 2020, 09:29:04 PM
Post by: Legion on July 22, 2020, 10:35:16 PM
Post by: Legion on July 22, 2020, 10:35:22 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 22, 2020, 11:27:02 PM
Can't see it happening like that somehow. The championship last day night was incredible and we've seen many odd premier league results on final days before.
West Ham showed tonight they're not even to score against and we'll have to defend well at the other end again.
Post by: Steve67 on July 23, 2020, 12:55:23 PM
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on July 23, 2020, 01:24:44 PM
Nice piece today in the Express and Star telling us that we were writing Dean off when we were seven points behind and seemingly down. Worth a read but I wish he'd written it after this Sunday and after we are absolutely staying up!Its funny how we always seem to get more favourable journalism from the Wolverhampton E&S than the Birmingham Mail.
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 23, 2020, 01:30:53 PM
Nice piece today in the Express and Star telling us that we were writing Dean off when we were seven points behind and seemingly down. Worth a read but I wish he'd written it after this Sunday and after we are absolutely staying up!Its funny how we always seem to get more favourable journalism from the Wolverhampton E&S than the Birmingham Mail.
They don't have to chase hits and their Villa writer is an absolute top man.
Post by: Rory on July 23, 2020, 01:52:30 PM
Nice piece today in the Express and Star telling us that we were writing Dean off when we were seven points behind and seemingly down. Worth a read but I wish he'd written it after this Sunday and after we are absolutely staying up!Its funny how we always seem to get more favourable journalism from the Wolverhampton E&S than the Birmingham Mail.
They don't have to chase hits and their Villa writer is an absolute top man.
Yep, they're just a better newspaper all-round, from my experience.
Post by: Legion on July 23, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Post by: DBTW on July 23, 2020, 02:03:35 PM
Nice piece today in the Express and Star telling us that we were writing Dean off when we were seven points behind and seemingly down. Worth a read but I wish he'd written it after this Sunday and after we are absolutely staying up!Its funny how we always seem to get more favourable journalism from the Wolverhampton E&S than the Birmingham Mail.
They don't have to chase hits and their Villa writer is an absolute top man.
100%, Matt is one of the best
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 23, 2020, 02:05:35 PM
Nice piece today in the Express and Star telling us that we were writing Dean off when we were seven points behind and seemingly down. Worth a read but I wish he'd written it after this Sunday and after we are absolutely staying up!Its funny how we always seem to get more favourable journalism from the Wolverhampton E&S than the Birmingham Mail.
They don't have to chase hits and their Villa writer is an absolute top man.
Yep, they're just a better newspaper all-round, from my experience.
I wouldn't go that far. They're horribly right-wing.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 23, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
Villa and Watford on the other hand will go into their games knowing that the results or indeed the scores that they need may change however many times, as games elsewhere twist and turn as the afternoon unfolds, including of course what's happening with Bournemouth.
I don't like it.
Post by: Jockey Randall on July 23, 2020, 02:31:39 PM
It bothers me that unlike Villa (or Watford), Bournemouth will go into their game on Sunday with one big advantage over the others, ie Bournemouth know absolutely what they need to do - they simply need to win. For them, nothing less than a win will be of any use. Not only that, Bournemouth will also know that a win for them by a single goal will be as good as a win by 2,3, 4 or however many goals, regardless of what Villa or Watford are doing. So nothing that happens elsewhere should deflect them from that one single, simple objective - to win their game, by means of any score.
Villa and Watford on the other hand will go into their games knowing that the results or indeed the scores that they need may change however many times, as games elsewhere twist and turn as the afternoon unfolds, including of course what's happening with Bournemouth.
I don't like it.
On the positive side if you're Everton it's a slight advantage as if you give nothing away first half, you can then hit them on the break when they have to commit more and more forward towards the end. They could end up with a 3-0 win they barely deserve. Hopefully they will be 2-0 up at half time and it ends 5-0 so we don't have to go through it all being tight but it's still not a great position for Bournemouth to be in.
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2020, 02:32:15 PM
Nice piece today in the Express and Star telling us that we were writing Dean off when we were seven points behind and seemingly down. Worth a read but I wish he'd written it after this Sunday and after we are absolutely staying up!Its funny how we always seem to get more favourable journalism from the Wolverhampton E&S than the Birmingham Mail.
They don't have to chase hits and their Villa writer is an absolute top man.
Yep, they're just a better newspaper all-round, from my experience.
I wouldn't go that far. They're horribly right-wing.
right wing papers generally have better sports coverage to be fair.
Post by: chrisw1 on July 23, 2020, 02:34:31 PM
With that said, I do think they are a dangerous outsider. I can certainly see them beating Everton.
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2020, 02:56:12 PM
It bothers me that unlike Villa (or Watford), Bournemouth will go into their game on Sunday with one big advantage over the others, ie Bournemouth know absolutely what they need to do - they simply need to win. For them, nothing less than a win will be of any use. Not only that, Bournemouth will also know that a win for them by a single goal will be as good as a win by 2,3, 4 or however many goals, regardless of what Villa or Watford are doing. So nothing that happens elsewhere should deflect them from that one single, simple objective - to win their game, by means of any score.
Villa and Watford on the other hand will go into their games knowing that the results or indeed the scores that they need may change however many times, as games elsewhere twist and turn as the afternoon unfolds, including of course what's happening with Bournemouth.
I don't like it.
This doesn't really make any sense. Bournemouth could win by 10 and know they're relying on us and Watford both losing. They don't have the same pressure because they only have any influence on a 3rd of the games that matter to them. Our situation is far more controlled, don't lose and match the Watford result or better, we're in full control of our fate.
The 'what if...' scenarios are stacked in our favour and the bookies clearly reflect that. If we win 1-0 then Watford need to either beat Arsenal by 3 or by 1 in a 7-6 victory. Odds for Watford to win 3-0 are 40/1 (I'm averaging out on oddschecker) and to win 4-1 is 66/1, the 7-6 option isn't even listed as a fringe bet (but 10-0 Arsenal is). Us to win is 6/5 or 5/4 on almost all the bookies listed.
Just to round out the odds you can get, at best, 1/25 on Bournemouth staying up.
Post by: PeterWithe on July 23, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
Nice piece today in the Express and Star telling us that we were writing Dean off when we were seven points behind and seemingly down. Worth a read but I wish he'd written it after this Sunday and after we are absolutely staying up!Its funny how we always seem to get more favourable journalism from the Wolverhampton E&S than the Birmingham Mail.
They don't have to chase hits and their Villa writer is an absolute top man.
Yep, they're just a better newspaper all-round, from my experience.
I wouldn't go that far. They're horribly right-wing.
right wing papers generally have better sports coverage to be fair.
Der Sturmer had a very imformative wallchart for the 1936 Olympics.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2020, 02:59:54 PM
It bothers me that unlike Villa (or Watford), Bournemouth will go into their game on Sunday with one big advantage over the others, ie Bournemouth know absolutely what they need to do - they simply need to win. For them, nothing less than a win will be of any use. Not only that, Bournemouth will also know that a win for them by a single goal will be as good as a win by 2,3, 4 or however many goals, regardless of what Villa or Watford are doing. So nothing that happens elsewhere should deflect them from that one single, simple objective - to win their game, by means of any score.
Villa and Watford on the other hand will go into their games knowing that the results or indeed the scores that they need may change however many times, as games elsewhere twist and turn as the afternoon unfolds, including of course what's happening with Bournemouth.
I don't like it.
This doesn't really make any sense. Bournemouth could win by 10 and know they're relying on us and Watford both losing. They don't have the same pressure because they only have any influence on a 3rd of the games that matter to them. Our situation is far more controlled, don't lose and match the Watford result or better, we're in full control of our fate.
The 'what if...' scenarios are stacked in our favour and the bookies clearly reflect that. If we win 1-0 then Watford need to either beat Arsenal by 3 or by 1 in a 7-6 victory. Odds for Watford to win 3-0 are 40/1 (I'm averaging out on oddschecker) and to win 4-1 is 66/1, the 7-6 option isn't even listed as a fringe bet (but 10-0 Arsenal is). Us to win is 6/5 or 5/4 on almost all the bookies listed.
Just to round out the odds you can get, at best, 1/25 on Bournemouth staying up.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/043f3a205dcee9e3afb8e770370b19aa/tenor.gif)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2020, 03:00:38 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
I hope we win 1-0 and they win 7-6 as they'll still be relegated.
yes sorry, it's 8-6, which doesn't really make it any more likely.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 23, 2020, 03:30:36 PM
It bothers me that unlike Villa (or Watford), Bournemouth will go into their game on Sunday with one big advantage over the others, ie Bournemouth know absolutely what they need to do - they simply need to win. For them, nothing less than a win will be of any use. Not only that, Bournemouth will also know that a win for them by a single goal will be as good as a win by 2,3, 4 or however many goals, regardless of what Villa or Watford are doing. So nothing that happens elsewhere should deflect them from that one single, simple objective - to win their game, by means of any score.
Villa and Watford on the other hand will go into their games knowing that the results or indeed the scores that they need may change however many times, as games elsewhere twist and turn as the afternoon unfolds, including of course what's happening with Bournemouth.
I don't like it.
This doesn't really make any sense. Bournemouth could win by 10 and know they're relying on us and Watford both losing. They don't have the same pressure because they only have any influence on a 3rd of the games that matter to them. Our situation is far more controlled, don't lose and match the Watford result or better, we're in full control of our fate.
This is my point - Bournemouth don't have the same pressure. That's going to help them. Also, in so far as we may have 'full control of our fate' this is only by dint of a notional ability to react to events elsewhere - my worry is that looking to events happening elsewhere isn't going to help our focus - play the game and not the situation I think is the cliche.
I know this is glass half empty territory, and obviously I'd rather be in our position right now than Bournemouth's. But what did you say are the odds you can get, just on Bournemouth staying up?
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 23, 2020, 03:36:11 PM
Best odds on Bournemouth staying up are 14/1 on Betfair.
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2020, 03:42:01 PM
This is my point - Bournemouth don't have the same pressure. That's going to help them. Also, in so far as we may have 'full control of our fate' this is only by dint of a notional ability to react to events elsewhere - my worry is that looking to events happening elsewhere isn't going to help our focus - play the game and not the situation I think is the cliche.
I know this is glass half empty territory, and obviously I'd rather be in our position right now than Bournemouth's. But what did you say are the odds you can get, just on Bournemouth staying up?
I looked the other way round it was 1/25 on Bournemouth being relegated. at best. A lot of the bookies are 1/40 on it. That's as close as a foregone conclusion as they get in football betting.
Back to the first paragraph, it's not because of being able to react, it's because if we win we're highly likely to claim 17th because Watford are unlikely to get the 3 goal victory they need. If they went 3-0 up and we were sitting on on a 1-0 lead then we'd need to react but that's pretty much the only scenario where we need to care.
The pressure is different for Bournemouth because they're already accepted relegation as highly likely and are just playing the game out because they have to. If us and Watford both go behind then Bournemouth are suddenly under far greater pressure than either of us because they'll see a slim chance of staying up but know that it's fragile even if they do their part and get a lead.
Post by: dorsetvillian on July 23, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 23, 2020, 04:18:24 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 23, 2020, 04:22:46 PM
Well, you can all cheer together every time Arsenal score.
FTFY
Post by: Rory on July 23, 2020, 06:50:01 PM
Nice piece today in the Express and Star telling us that we were writing Dean off when we were seven points behind and seemingly down. Worth a read but I wish he'd written it after this Sunday and after we are absolutely staying up!Its funny how we always seem to get more favourable journalism from the Wolverhampton E&S than the Birmingham Mail.
They don't have to chase hits and their Villa writer is an absolute top man.
Yep, they're just a better newspaper all-round, from my experience.
I wouldn't go that far. They're horribly right-wing.
Ah, I didn't know that. I only read it when I'm bored at the in-laws'. Whereas when I'm at my parents' I don't even read the Birmingham Mail out of curiosity.
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2020, 07:56:24 PM
It bothers me that unlike Villa (or Watford), Bournemouth will go into their game on Sunday with one big advantage over the others, ie Bournemouth know absolutely what they need to do - they simply need to win. For them, nothing less than a win will be of any use. Not only that, Bournemouth will also know that a win for them by a single goal will be as good as a win by 2,3, 4 or however many goals, regardless of what Villa or Watford are doing. So nothing that happens elsewhere should deflect them from that one single, simple objective - to win their game, by means of any score.
Villa and Watford on the other hand will go into their games knowing that the results or indeed the scores that they need may change however many times, as games elsewhere twist and turn as the afternoon unfolds, including of course what's happening with Bournemouth.
I don't like it.
I think you make a fair point, but then I hope that we go into the West Ham game with exactly the same mindset that Bournemouth have, ie we HAVE to win. Win, and then unless managerless Watford have a freak 3-0 win against Arsenal, then we stay up and they go down. If it's 0-0 in the 90th minute I hope we still push forward like we're 1-0 down in the FA Cup final, because you simply don't know what's going to happen elsewhere.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 23, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
It bothers me that unlike Villa (or Watford), Bournemouth will go into their game on Sunday with one big advantage over the others, ie Bournemouth know absolutely what they need to do - they simply need to win. For them, nothing less than a win will be of any use. Not only that, Bournemouth will also know that a win for them by a single goal will be as good as a win by 2,3, 4 or however many goals, regardless of what Villa or Watford are doing. So nothing that happens elsewhere should deflect them from that one single, simple objective - to win their game, by means of any score.
Villa and Watford on the other hand will go into their games knowing that the results or indeed the scores that they need may change however many times, as games elsewhere twist and turn as the afternoon unfolds, including of course what's happening with Bournemouth.
I don't like it.
I think you make a fair point, but then I hope that we go into the West Ham game with exactly the same mindset that Bournemouth have, ie we HAVE to win. Win, and then unless managerless Watford have a freak 3-0 win against Arsenal, then we stay up and they go down. If it's 0-0 in the 90th minute I hope we still push forward like we're 1-0 down in the FA Cup final, because you simply don't know what's going to happen elsewhere.
I think Smith said in his interview post Arsenal, that we need to go to West Ham to win. I think that’s right, despite recent performances we’re not good enough just to sit back and soak up pressure. We’re far better with grealish on the front foot with McGinn and the full backs bombing on. Same team as last couple of games I guess apart from Guilbert for Elmo
Post by: TaxDodger on July 23, 2020, 08:18:35 PM
It bothers me that unlike Villa (or Watford), Bournemouth will go into their game on Sunday with one big advantage over the others, ie Bournemouth know absolutely what they need to do - they simply need to win. For them, nothing less than a win will be of any use. Not only that, Bournemouth will also know that a win for them by a single goal will be as good as a win by 2,3, 4 or however many goals, regardless of what Villa or Watford are doing. So nothing that happens elsewhere should deflect them from that one single, simple objective - to win their game, by means of any score.
Villa and Watford on the other hand will go into their games knowing that the results or indeed the scores that they need may change however many times, as games elsewhere twist and turn as the afternoon unfolds, including of course what's happening with Bournemouth.
I don't like it.
I think you make a fair point, but then I hope that we go into the West Ham game with exactly the same mindset that Bournemouth have, ie we HAVE to win. Win, and then unless managerless Watford have a freak 3-0 win against Arsenal, then we stay up and they go down. If it's 0-0 in the 90th minute I hope we still push forward like we're 1-0 down in the FA Cup final, because you simply don't know what's going to happen elsewhere.
I mean, I agree we should go out to win the game, but if it's 0-0 in stoppage time and Bournemouth are winning/Watford are drawing and we send Reina up for a corner...
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 23, 2020, 08:20:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2020, 08:30:16 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2020, 08:50:46 PM
Could always do what Fulham did last night and purposely come out late. They didn’t kick off until 2 minutes after the rest.Yes that worked well.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 23, 2020, 09:09:09 PM
Could always do what Fulham did last night and purposely come out late. They didn’t kick off until 2 minutes after the rest.Yes that worked well.
Didn’t say it was a good plan lol
Post by: Legion on July 23, 2020, 09:47:03 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53492578
Post by: David_Nab on July 23, 2020, 10:00:38 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 24, 2020, 06:11:44 AM
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 24, 2020, 01:37:36 PM
Who was the co commentator on Sky v Arse,? he did mention how we set traps.
Wasn't it carrager? He sounded scouse but never seen him commentate before
Post by: CT on July 24, 2020, 03:24:55 PM
Who was the co commentator on Sky v Arse,? he did mention how we set traps.
Wasn't it carrager? He sounded scouse but never seen him commentate before
Wasn’t it Andy Hinchcliff, the ex Sheffield Weds defender?
Post by: Steve67 on July 24, 2020, 04:02:28 PM
Who was the co commentator on Sky v Arse,? he did mention how we set traps.
Wasn't it carrager? He sounded scouse but never seen him commentate before
Wasn’t it Andy Hinchcliff, the ex Sheffield Weds defender?
It was Andy Hinchcliffe.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 25, 2020, 07:29:02 PM
He was very good, pointing out tactical changes coherent and informative.Who was the co commentator on Sky v Arse,? he did mention how we set traps.
Wasn't it carrager? He sounded scouse but never seen him commentate before
Wasn’t it Andy Hinchcliff, the ex Sheffield Weds defender?
It was Andy Hinchcliffe.
Also it was one of the best refereeing performances I have seen this season.
Post by: Dave P on July 26, 2020, 06:24:48 AM
Could always do what Fulham did last night and purposely come out late. They didn’t kick off until 2 minutes after the rest.
We’ve been accused of doing what Fulham have done all season.
Post by: TheMalandro on July 26, 2020, 02:17:06 PM
Could always do what Fulham did last night and purposely come out late. They didn’t kick off until 2 minutes after the rest.
We’ve been accused of doing what Fulham have done all season.
We've both installed great statues, is it that?
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 02:38:26 PM
Post by: Rory on July 26, 2020, 02:42:56 PM
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116338129_3882663055094557_8058281079785281017_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=pPgiP-YmtTgAX9cDRep&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=1d5797f6e64ac5de070fa20b4ae43f82&oe=5F42DB60)
That has somehow made me feel worse!
Post by: brian green on July 26, 2020, 02:49:34 PM
Post by: TheMalandro on July 26, 2020, 03:01:47 PM
Post by: The Left Side on July 26, 2020, 06:45:39 PM