Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 04:34:28 PM

Title: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 04:34:28 PM
Thanks for getting us up Dean, but you're totally out of your depth and not up to the job at this level. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: aev on December 28, 2019, 04:35:03 PM
+1
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 28, 2019, 04:35:45 PM
Yay, wondered what time today this would appear.

Hopeless at this level, bought some absolute duds as well.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 04:35:58 PM
Yep agreed. Iím done with this utter garbage. He utterly refuses to change tactics even though itís clear they donít work and we are terrible.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Richard on December 28, 2019, 04:37:08 PM
Sadly have to agree
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Bad English on December 28, 2019, 04:38:17 PM
P45 required. Sorry mate.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 04:39:02 PM
Out. No more. He has to go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 04:39:25 PM
Need a poll, but Iím 100% aligned. He needs to go
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Axl Rose on December 28, 2019, 04:39:45 PM
P45 for almost every player, too. They've been woeful of late.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: DB on December 28, 2019, 04:40:02 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on December 28, 2019, 04:42:09 PM
In fairness Pitarch has responsibility for transfers - so two P45s needed today

Yay, wondered what time today this would appear.

Hopeless at this level, bought some absolute duds as well.
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Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 28, 2019, 04:42:20 PM
How much the likes of Wesley, Jota, Tres, Targett were his decisions is questionable - but he  is not getting any tune out of  them let a good one
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2019, 04:43:03 PM
He has to go. December has been a disgrace.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 28, 2019, 04:43:48 PM
Definitely. And before another ball is kicked or we're fucked.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Richard on December 28, 2019, 04:44:06 PM
Everton acted quickly and look how that's galvanised them. We are not cut adrift like 2015/6 so owners please do it quickly.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 04:44:39 PM
There have been too many times where Smith has not helped the team through indecision and poor decisions.
Today was the culmination of all of that and the players have given up on him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 04:44:52 PM
My mate whoís a Rangers fan reminded me about the previous highly thought of Brentford manager, Mark Warburton. Did a great job before Dean Smith and got completely found out at the higher level. Stubborn, didnít want to change the system, played the same players and just lost all idea on how to motivate or tactical adapt. Sound familiar?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 28, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Our formation and tactics have been so thoroughly worked out and we are so easy for teams to play against and find space.

That he refuses to change that, that he refuses to drop the horror show we have at centre forward and that he continually refuses to make subs before its too late means for me that Smith has to go now.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2019, 04:46:31 PM
Oh, and get a proper manager. Not John sodding Terry who should be damned by association.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 28, 2019, 04:46:51 PM
Who the fuck is saying no? Have they even seen the performances of the last 20 games?!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Small Rodent on December 28, 2019, 04:47:37 PM
Unfortunately I can see the board as being non-reactive as Smith.

I donít get it with Smith. At all. Why the stubbornness? Why? Why? Why?

Itís unfathomable.

When he gets things right, it works, but youíve got to be flexible.

He will definitely not get a bigger job again. And yes, thatís with Claret and Blue tinted monocle, but why not do your very best to read the signs of where your team are headed?

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 04:47:38 PM
The biggest thing is the continued reliance on Wesley, who is the worst striker we've ever had.  I'd play Scott Hogan instead of him, he's that bad.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 04:48:30 PM
Im done with him now. He can  have no compalints.

No tactics
No clue
No plan B

Thanks for memories dean and i hokd no ill feelinsg tiwards you but you are out of your depth. I think we need to go all out and get wenger in even if its just till end of season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on December 28, 2019, 04:48:45 PM
Gutted it hasn't worked  but yes its time.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 04:49:02 PM
He'll have a decent career in the Championship, but I don't want it to be while he's managing us next season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nev on December 28, 2019, 04:49:08 PM
Lets face facts, Smith in the PL was a huge risk. Unproven at this level and now found to be wanting and no evidence whatsoever that he will be able to turn things around. It's up to the owners to take action and make positive moves to try and secure the clubs status in the top league.

I walked across the North Stand car park before the saints game and looked up at the picture of Dean and wondered out loud if would have to be taken down sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john2710 on December 28, 2019, 04:50:26 PM
He's got to be gone tonight.

A team full of pussies.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TonyD on December 28, 2019, 04:51:12 PM
Should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. 
Although Iím starting to think there might be something weíre missing - as itís quite unfathomable how shite heís been.  Something stinks.  You canít be that bad a manager. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Uknowthescore on December 28, 2019, 04:51:24 PM
Nice bloke. But got to go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 04:51:48 PM
It's not just that the results are so poor, the performances are piss poor and getting worse. Very little to no sign of anything changing and the team spirit seems shot.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 28, 2019, 04:52:29 PM
It feels like heresy to say this but it needs to happen. Dean is walking up a down escalator.

There's still half a season and a transfer window.

Let it be soon if it is to happen though. Give a new man chance to have a look at what he has got.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: levico on December 28, 2019, 04:52:52 PM
Very disappointing outcome but itís very clear that he is clueless at this level.

Donít give him any of the January money, now is the time for him to go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Axl Rose on December 28, 2019, 04:53:07 PM
Too much chopping and changing of players and positions their played in. It can't have helped.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: andyh on December 28, 2019, 04:53:46 PM
Thanks for Wembley, but letís call it a day eh Dean.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Holy Trinity on December 28, 2019, 04:54:00 PM
Bye bye deano. Just not good enough at this level
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: phantom limb on December 28, 2019, 04:54:12 PM
Just changing the manager will not suffice, the squad desperately needs quality.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: supertom on December 28, 2019, 04:54:25 PM
He's got to go. Absolutely love him for what he did in the championship, and for that 10 game run, but he's out of his depth. That's the simple truth of the matter. For the best will in the world, managers go to a club well beyond them sometimes. Get him out before he starts turning deluded and bitter like Lambert.

If we act now the new manager has half a season and potentially some window to act. We've got enough quality here to stay up, if we can organise them better and work tactically on our front line and back line. Go absolutely all out for another striker and CH in the window.

To me the starting 11 he put out today was incredible (for all the wrong reasons). It's as if the boxing day win was all fine and rosy (despite us getting it by the skin of our teeth and being frankly, as abysmal as we've been for weeks). We've lost 3-0 to a side who had 10 men for most of the second half, who have been dreadful all season. It's so easy for Watford.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 04:54:53 PM
Purslow should be calling him immediately and advising he say goodbye to his players instead of tearing into them in the dressing room. Let him go with some kind of dignity.

But whatever way it happens, it must happen.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Edvard Remberg on December 28, 2019, 04:55:21 PM
Definition of insanity - keep doing same thing over and over and expecting different outcome. He needs to go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: supertom on December 28, 2019, 04:55:52 PM
Just changing the manager will not suffice, the squad desperately needs quality.
We'd best change whilst any new manager has some window left. A half reasonable striker would make a lot of difference. I think there's quality here, it's about getting them organised.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 04:55:53 PM
The biggest thing is the continued reliance on Wesley, who is the worst striker we've ever had.  I'd play Scott Hogan instead of him, he's that bad.

When I think of all the years Iíve watched football and specifically Brazil, the very last player I think of as one is Wesley.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: curiousorange on December 28, 2019, 04:56:21 PM
Thanks for some wonderful memories. But that's that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 28, 2019, 04:56:46 PM
Yes he got us up, but he did have some of the best players in that division. The experiment with in proven players and an unproven manager, at this level has to stop. 1st thing to change is Dean. Thanks for everything, but time now to leave us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: GarTomas on December 28, 2019, 04:56:52 PM
It's not just that the results are so poor, the performances are piss poor and getting worse. Very little to no sign of anything changing and the team spirit seems shot.

Sadly this is where I am as well. Iím a massive fan of him for his overall philosophy and how he conducts himself.

But the lack of any sort of performance in the last few games means I can only see us going down. I thought we needed 8 points from the 4 over this period and weíve got 3 so far and another showing like this we will get nothing from Burnley.

The players donít seem to believe in him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 04:57:06 PM
It's not just that the results are so poor, the performances are piss poor and getting worse. Very little to no sign of anything changing and the team spirit seems shot.

Thatís just it. Itís not like weíre unlucky. If anything weíre lucky itís not 6 defeats on the spin, we were fortunate against Norwich. There is nothing positive at the moment, beyond Jack, and even heís wasted.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Edvard Remberg on December 28, 2019, 04:57:21 PM
I would hope and expect a setup and investment like the owners have done with Villa already have a plan prepared - if not, then we are surely effed.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ad@m on December 28, 2019, 04:58:13 PM
He's going nowhere - the board will back him in January and give him the chance to sort it out.  For what he achieved last year he's earned it.

It's little wonder the f-word gets raised regularly when it comes to Villa fans, when half way through the season we're 1 point away from a successful season and people are talking about sacking the manager who got us out of the hellhole of the Championship little more than six months ago.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: aldridgeboy on December 28, 2019, 05:00:13 PM
Sadly, I think his time is done.
I was quite optimistic even a few weeks ago. I didnít think we had the feel on the pitch or atmosphere wise like the last relegation team did.  Silly mistakes , a centre forward who despite the system maybe not being to his liking, is toothless.

But we look genuinely clueless. Itís not rocket science in this league. Win 10 home games and get sone draws away where you can. Our results against the bottom 6 or 7 are a joke.

Thanks for some good times Dean. Clearly a nice bloke and a Villa man through and through. But sadly thatís not enough.

Act now whilst we have a chance to improve.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: passport1 on December 28, 2019, 05:01:29 PM
Bin him or he will take us down. Having said that the signing policy in the summer was bizarre so we probably have equal incompetence off the pitch.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Pete3206 on December 28, 2019, 05:02:24 PM
He's going nowhere - the board will back him in January and give him the chance to sort it out.  For what he achieved last year he's earned it.

It's little wonder the f-word gets raised regularly when it comes to Villa fans, when half way through the season we're 1 point away from a successful season and people are talking about sacking the manager who got us out of the hellhole of the Championship little more than six months ago.

We're deep in the shit, but I agree with this. The thing that sways me away from Smith is his stubbornness on selecting Wesley every week.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 28, 2019, 05:02:59 PM
It's little wonder the f-word gets raised regularly when it comes to Villa fans, when half way through the season we're 1 point away from a successful season
How can we be 1 point away from a successful season half way through a season?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: andyh on December 28, 2019, 05:03:46 PM
He's going nowhere - the board will back him in January and give him the chance to sort it out.  For what he achieved last year he's earned it.

It's little wonder the f-word gets raised regularly when it comes to Villa fans, when half way through the season we're 1 point away from a successful season and people are talking about sacking the manager who got us out of the hellhole of the Championship little more than six months ago.
And back in it a few months later.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The Edge on December 28, 2019, 05:06:26 PM
He's going nowhere - the board will back him in January and give him the chance to sort it out.  For what he achieved last year he's earned it.

It's little wonder the f-word gets raised regularly when it comes to Villa fans, when half way through the season we're 1 point away from a successful season and people are talking about sacking the manager who got us out of the hellhole of the Championship little more than six months ago.

We're deep in the shit, but I agree with this. The thing that sways me away from Smith is his stubbornness on selecting Wesley every week.
Wesley as opposed to who? Kodja is nowhere near Premier league standard. Davis is made of tissue paper. That's it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on December 28, 2019, 05:07:54 PM
It would have to be a Benitez--type appointment, otherwise I'd rather we gave him the season.

I'd personally back him this January.

Losing Mings and McGinn has been a disaster.



Fucking Wesley though!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: DB on December 28, 2019, 05:08:24 PM
He's going nowhere - the board will back him in January and give him the chance to sort it out.  For what he achieved last year he's earned it.

It's little wonder the f-word gets raised regularly when it comes to Villa fans, when half way through the season we're 1 point away from a successful season and people are talking about sacking the manager who got us out of the hellhole of the Championship little more than six months ago.
Itís not about what he did 6months ago, itís about here and now. He is out of his depth and unwilling to change tactics.
What have you seen that makes you believe he is the man to keep us up?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villafirst on December 28, 2019, 05:08:48 PM
A good time to change the Manager. We're not too adrift of the teams above us and the new Manager has the January window to hopefully get some players in with plenty of grit and determination.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 05:10:16 PM
If we weren't getting worse every game and look completely lacking in anything approaching team spirit, togetherness etc i'd agree that he's earned the right to more time. But those things are the case, we just got done 2-0 by the worst side in the division when they were down to 10 men and created the square root of fuck all against those 10 men. Once the players look like they've lost belief in the manager then it's time as the odds of that belief coming back are slim to none.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: German James on December 28, 2019, 05:11:51 PM
If we weren't getting worse every game and look completely lacking in anything approaching team spirit, togetherness etc i'd agree that he's earned the right to more time. But those things are the case, we just got done 2-0 by the worst side in the division when they were down to 10 men and created the square root of fuck all against those 10 men. Once the players look like they've lost belief in the manager then it's time as the odds of that belief coming back are slim to none.
We really are getting worse, it was 3-0!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 28, 2019, 05:12:13 PM
Keep Smith and we will finish bottom, we're already stinking the league out just like we did last time we were here.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 05:14:08 PM
If we weren't getting worse every game and look completely lacking in anything approaching team spirit, togetherness etc i'd agree that he's earned the right to more time. But those things are the case, we just got done 2-0 by the worst side in the division when they were down to 10 men and created the square root of fuck all against those 10 men. Once the players look like they've lost belief in the manager then it's time as the odds of that belief coming back are slim to none.

Yup, itís not just losing itís how we lose.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Pete3206 on December 28, 2019, 05:15:13 PM
What has gone on since that game at Man Utd?

Apart from the obvious ineffectiveness of our non forward line, the players looked at least like they could compete and play as a team.

Too many of them now look like strangers, who can't be arsed.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 05:16:35 PM
If we weren't getting worse every game and look completely lacking in anything approaching team spirit, togetherness etc i'd agree that he's earned the right to more time. But those things are the case, we just got done 2-0 by the worst side in the division when they were down to 10 men and created the square root of fuck all against those 10 men. Once the players look like they've lost belief in the manager then it's time as the odds of that belief coming back are slim to none.
We really are getting worse, it was 3-0!

They won 2-0 after they went down to 10.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LukeJames on December 28, 2019, 05:17:16 PM
If he doesnt go now then people are going to start genuinly disliking him I fear. He doesnt deserve that at all but he is way out of his depth.

Thanks for the work you did last season but please go now so somebody can attempt to save us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 28, 2019, 05:19:33 PM
It would have to be a Benitez--type appointment, otherwise I'd rather we gave him the season.

I'd personally back him this January.

Losing Mings and McGinn has been a disaster.



Fucking Wesley though!

Losing those two hasnt been a disaster. No matter how much leadership and authority Mings was instilling in the team, it was fucking pointless, as he was nailed on to gift the opposition at least a goal a game. And we haven't seen anything of McGinn since the opening half a dozen games of the season - Totally lacking in contribution since.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TopDeck113 on December 28, 2019, 05:19:41 PM
This is such an unforgiving league.  If you're not able to get the results, you're gone. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ger Regan on December 28, 2019, 05:20:38 PM
Every concern I had about Smith before the season has actually been realised far more than I could have ever feared. It would have been great if it had worked out, but there's absolutely no sign of that happening, sadly. I hope the owners are hard nosed as well as ambitious enough to address it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mike on December 28, 2019, 05:21:37 PM
Weíve lost 6 - 2 aggregate over 3 legs vs relegation opposition. I canít believe we spent so much money with no Premier League experience and only one striker who was always a gamble. I had massive doubts but I thought Smith was good enough to keep us up and next year weíd be a proper team. Sorry, Dean, youíve let us down with baffling selections and tactics. We all looked at that starting line up and knew weíd lost.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: rougegorge on December 28, 2019, 05:21:53 PM
If he doesnt go now then people are going to start genuinly disliking him I fear. He doesnt deserve that at all but he is way out of his depth.

Thanks for the work you did last season but please go now so somebody can attempt to save us.
Agreed.

I think he should've gone after Sheffield United. So we've given him the 3 'winnable' games and we we were fortunate to win one. Today was one of the most embarrassing displays I have ever seen. No change after the red card to take an opportunity, and what followed was just atrocious from both the manager and the players.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 28, 2019, 05:23:10 PM
Reminds me of Graham Turner.  Nice bloke.  We all want him to do well.  But ultimately heís not quite up to it at this level.  One star player.  The defeats are not marginal anymore, they are dismal.  The players are giving up as well.  No recovery from that.  Just hope we donít get todayís Billy McNeil.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: curiousorange on December 28, 2019, 05:24:27 PM
Thing is, I'd hoped we were working away from that whole younger coach who is out of his depth/experienced boring bastard loop, but nothing Smith has done since that Carrow Road performance (yes, even the point at OT) has convinced me there will be an upturn. It is a huge shame, since you look at the time afforded Howe and Dyche and how it can ultimately work out, but even then you could see what they were trying to do and were sometimes the loser in a tight contest.

Dean's gone, the team's gone. Much as it depresses me we're onto the Bruce side of the equation again. Anybody other than that option would just be repeating 2016.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Goldie.7 on December 28, 2019, 05:24:47 PM
North stand face removal is going to be awkward.

Whoever thought that was a good idea also needs to go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2019, 05:25:32 PM
The players look like they've never met. Which is a problem for Smith, as our entire season hinged on his ability to get a new squad of players to gel. In fact, they look somehow less close than ever, a cloud of loose electrons, and that is at least largely on Smith.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 05:27:36 PM
We're going to have to do something.

We will struggle to get more than one point from our next three games imo.

Next time we play Watford they will likely be above us and we could be 5-6 points off 17th.

It's critical we actually do something rather than cross fingers.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on December 28, 2019, 05:28:10 PM
John Terry, Premier League manager, anyone?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 05:28:37 PM
One thing is sure here: he will not resign.

So it's either push him, and quickly, or back him to the hilt for January.

Anything outside of that and we are certain to be relegated.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on December 28, 2019, 05:28:44 PM
Reminds me of Graham Turner.  Nice bloke.  We all want him to do well.  But ultimately heís not quite up to it at this level......

I thought the same when we signed him. Itíll be a horrible decision to make...

https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=59028.msg3500103#msg3500103
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 05:30:27 PM
Should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. 
Although Iím starting to think there might be something weíre missing - as itís quite unfathomable how shite heís been.  Something stinks.  You canít be that bad a manager. 

The Leicester game killed everything. Sometimes one game in a season can simply do that, particularly with the lack of top level experience running through the 11 and then injuries hit.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 05:30:32 PM
What on earth do the owners see in him to warrant a contract extension so early ......he is clearly out of his depth and is coming across as being stubborn and a little bit thick
Not for the first time it has been mentioned that he has maybe "lost" the dressing room ....personally I think keeping him on and allowing him to recruit more players would be madness
Everton and Watford have both made brave and drastic steps recently ......let's hope our owners don't sleepwalk into relegation .......right now we are the poorest team in the league ...who would of thought we couldn't compete with Brighton, Bournemouth, Burnley et al
As a proud Villa  fan I am a little bit embarrassed by the performances of late ......that is down to the manager/coach and His inflexible approach ..........what does he see in Wesley?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2019, 05:31:27 PM
Iíd be surprised if any change is made.
Heíll get January to try and turn it around I think.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Davkaus on December 28, 2019, 05:31:56 PM
Should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. 
Although Iím starting to think there might be something weíre missing - as itís quite unfathomable how shite heís been.  Something stinks.  You canít be that bad a manager. 

The Leicester game killed everything. Sometimes one game in a season can simply do that, particularly with the lack of top level experience running through the 11 and then injuries hit.

The Leicester game killed us in the last PL season as well. Bastards.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Dave P on December 28, 2019, 05:33:57 PM
I canít bring myself to say yes just yet. But we have a big January coming up with games against Watford and Brighton plus a league cup semi final. We need a bounce from somewhere.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Vill I An on December 28, 2019, 05:34:07 PM
I voted no and refuse to post on this because I think Smith should be given his opportunity to turn it around..
Southampton have and slowly but surely villa with right mix feel Smith can get it going.
Deano has a great philosophy on football and loves villa
I stick for him as love what he achieved.
It was never going to be so easy and simple and though at this time look like no progress Smith has enough to make wonders.
Keep faith
Up the villa !
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TonyD on December 28, 2019, 05:35:15 PM
Should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. 
Although Iím starting to think there might be something weíre missing - as itís quite unfathomable how shite heís been.  Something stinks.  You canít be that bad a manager. 

The Leicester game killed everything. Sometimes one game in a season can simply do that, particularly with the lack of top level experience running through the 11 and then injuries hit.
I mean is someone else picking the team?  Dean simply doesnít strike me as that stupid to keep playing Wes and keep putting Jack on the wing.  It doesnít make sense.  Or maybe he is that stupid. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Dave P on December 28, 2019, 05:35:20 PM
The lack of obvious replacement is also a factor
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The Moose on December 28, 2019, 05:35:33 PM
He's blamed VAR, but he would. He blamed his team selection for first half shambles. There you are then, your fault, off you go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: adrenachrome on December 28, 2019, 05:35:45 PM
Should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. 
Although Iím starting to think there might be something weíre missing - as itís quite unfathomable how shite heís been.  Something stinks.  You canít be that bad a manager. 

The Leicester game killed everything. Sometimes one game in a season can simply do that, particularly with the lack of top level experience running through the 11 and then injuries hit.

Yep.

Before that we played well in at least part of very game.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 05:35:55 PM
I voted no and refuse to post on this because I think Smith should be given his opportunity to turn it around..
Southampton have and slowly but surely villa with right mix feel Smith can get it going.
Deano has a great philosophy on football and loves villa
I stick for him as love what he achieved.
It was never going to be so easy and simple and though at this time look like no progress Smith has enough to make wonders.
Keep faith
Up the villa !


You refuse to post yet you just did. And you will again.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: CT Villan on December 28, 2019, 05:36:22 PM
Sadly its a yes from me too. He has abandoned his footballing philosophy and if this continues we are nailed on for relegation (again).

The recruitment side has been appalling as well - we all knew in the summer that we needed an experienced striker to lead the line, but apparently our senior executives had different ideas.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Axl Rose on December 28, 2019, 05:38:20 PM
I voted no and refuse to post on this because I think Smith should be given his opportunity to turn it around..
Southampton have and slowly but surely villa with right mix feel Smith can get it going.
Deano has a great philosophy on football and loves villa
I stick for him as love what he achieved.
It was never going to be so easy and simple and though at this time look like no progress Smith has enough to make wonders.
Keep faith
Up the villa !


You refuse to post yet you just did. And you will again.

Exactly what I wanted to say, TV, but what's the point? Stats will bombard the site, etc etc.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 05:38:29 PM
I voted no and refuse to post on this because I think Smith should be given his opportunity to turn it around..
Southampton have and slowly but surely villa with right mix feel Smith can get it going.
Deano has a great philosophy on football and loves villa
I stick for him as love what he achieved.
It was never going to be so easy and simple and though at this time look like no progress Smith has enough to make wonders.
Keep faith
Up the villa !


You refuse to post? Doesn't look like it pal.

If only.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: puppyfeat on December 28, 2019, 05:39:21 PM
It'll be much better for everyone, himself included, if Dean's legacy is just to have got us promoted, rather than having taken us straight back down as well. Sacking him should be seen as an act of mercy, not ruthlessness.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 05:40:01 PM
I'm a big Smith fan and really wanted it all to work out for him but sadly due to his stubbornness and refusal to change from Plan A which is obviously not working, he has lost it and needs to be replaced.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 28, 2019, 05:40:18 PM
He's blamed VAR, but he would. He blamed his team selection for first half shambles. There you are then, your fault, off you go.

His team selection was called out by numerous posters here. This is not 20-20 hindsight.

I mean, what did he think Jota was going to do? Or Lansbury?

What the hell was he thinking of?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: rougegorge on December 28, 2019, 05:40:45 PM
On WM now, he's blaming the officials for the 2nd and 3rd goals. So that's why we were so bad, as it befuddled the players' heads...and 2 games in 3 days. Except it was the same for both teams.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 28, 2019, 05:41:53 PM
On WM now, he's blaming the officials for the 2nd and 3rd goals. So that's why we were so bad, as it befuddled the players' heads.

The excuses of a desperate man.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 28, 2019, 05:43:10 PM
Should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. 
Although Iím starting to think there might be something weíre missing - as itís quite unfathomable how shite heís been.  Something stinks.  You canít be that bad a manager. 

The Leicester game killed everything. Sometimes one game in a season can simply do that, particularly with the lack of top level experience running through the 11 and then injuries hit.
I mean is someone else picking the team?  Dean simply doesnít strike me as that stupid to keep playing Wes and keep putting Jack on the wing.  It doesnít make sense.  Or maybe he is that stupid.

The chairman picked the team in Fred Rinders time.  Maybe theyíve gone back to that model.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ian J on December 28, 2019, 05:44:44 PM
I'm a big Smith fan and really wanted it all to work out for him but sadly due to his stubbornness and refusal to change from Plan A which is obviously not working, he has lost it and needs to be replaced.
Today he had a massive chance to make a quick change with that red card and he did nothing where as they did right away. We all said it, it was such an obvious thing to do.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 05:45:48 PM
I'm a big Smith fan and really wanted it all to work out for him but sadly due to his stubbornness and refusal to change from Plan A which is obviously not working, he has lost it and needs to be replaced.

The warning signs were last season during that dreadful January-February run. It was very poor before Jack came back from injury.

Now, it is dreadful in the premier league. He has got to go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 28, 2019, 05:46:02 PM
For anyone at the match, was there a consensus from the away fans? That's normally when the writing is on the wall.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: rob_bridge on December 28, 2019, 05:47:36 PM
Time to go for me too.

Great job in getting us back. Just a little short at this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AV82EC on December 28, 2019, 05:47:39 PM
Iím wondering if this emotion heís showing is because he knows his numbers up? As others have said the very definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again (4-3-3) and expecting a different result. If they do get rid, in my view, heíll only have himself to blame with the one excuse he does have being the recruitment by Pitarch.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 05:47:50 PM
I'm a big Smith fan and really wanted it all to work out for him but sadly due to his stubbornness and refusal to change from Plan A which is obviously not working, he has lost it and needs to be replaced.
Today he had a massive chance to make a quick change with that red card and he did nothing where as they did right away. We all said it, it was such an obvious thing to do.
the
Excatly how i saw it ian. I would have straight away gone two strikers on. But he abssolutely blew it yet again. A tactical novice
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 05:51:55 PM
I'm a big Smith fan and really wanted it all to work out for him but sadly due to his stubbornness and refusal to change from Plan A which is obviously not working, he has lost it and needs to be replaced.
Today he had a massive chance to make a quick change with that red card and he did nothing where as they did right away. We all said it, it was such an obvious thing to do.
the
Excatly how i saw it ian. I would have straight away gone two strikers on. But he abssolutely blew it yet again. A tactical novice
His Rabbit in the Headlights approach to game management has been shown up again.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TonyD on December 28, 2019, 05:54:38 PM
Should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. 
Although Iím starting to think there might be something weíre missing - as itís quite unfathomable how shite heís been.  Something stinks.  You canít be that bad a manager. 

The Leicester game killed everything. Sometimes one game in a season can simply do that, particularly with the lack of top level experience running through the 11 and then injuries hit.
I mean is someone else picking the team?  Dean simply doesnít strike me as that stupid to keep playing Wes and keep putting Jack on the wing.  It doesnít make sense.  Or maybe he is that stupid.

The chairman picked the team in Fred Rinders time.  Maybe theyíve gone back to that model.
Itís just so bloody odd that you would keep picking the same formation and then so slow to change it during the game. 
Just hope we donít have another set of duffers as owners at the helm!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 05:55:13 PM
Whatever his views on the 2nd and 3rd goals, the fact is that against one of the worst teams in the division, we had two shots on goal against 10 men.  How Wesley is so undroppable is one of the unsolved mysteries of this decade.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 28, 2019, 05:59:28 PM
If he goes, and I have to think it's 'when' now, I'm going to be distraught. I've never before been this emotionally invested in the manager. I'm personally finding all this a bit traumatic. Right here and now, I wish I could stop being a Villa fan for a bit.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 06:01:51 PM
Post match interview https://audioboom.com/posts/7464671
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 28, 2019, 06:02:07 PM
I think his departure would be as much in his own interests as ours.  He is a young man and has time to rebuild a managerial career.  What will always be a mystery to me was the speed of his implosion.  I have seen loads of Villa managers lose the plot - Vic Crowe, Tommy Docherty, Graham Turner, Josef Venglos, Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Tactics Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde, RDM, Eric Black, Steve Bruce but not one of them at the same speed from hero to zero as Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 28, 2019, 06:02:08 PM
If he goes, and I have to think it's 'when' now, I'm going to be distraught. I've never before been this emotionally invested in the manager. I'm personally finding all this a bit traumatic. Right here and now, I wish I could stop being a Villa fan for a bit.

You're right, it's a terrible shame but it isn't working, he's like a family pet, you know the visit to the vet is the right thing to do but can't bring yourself to admit it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 06:02:30 PM
If he goes, and I have to think it's 'when' now, I'm going to be distraught. I've never before been this emotionally invested in the manager. I'm personally finding all this a bit traumatic. Right here and now, I wish I could stop being a Villa fan for a bit.

In the long run it will do him good I think. I think DS could be capable prem manager in 5 years time but he's painfully short of experience at this level and it's showing most weeks at key points in games. We don't have enough leaders on the pitch to compensate for that.

We could always get him back in the future. I don't think he's that much worse than someone like Graham Potter but Brighton have lots more nous in their ranks (Duffy, Dunk, Glenn Murray etc) and they also signed a better striker in the summer.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Rudy65 on December 28, 2019, 06:02:47 PM
On WM now, he's blaming the officials for the 2nd and 3rd goals. So that's why we were so bad, as it befuddled the players' heads.

The excuses of a desperate man.

And we would have still lost 1 nil. This wasnít a narrow defeat. It was a typical gutless display so often seen over the last 6 weeks
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 28, 2019, 06:03:02 PM
Whatever his views on the 2nd and 3rd goals, the fact is that against one of the worst teams in the division, we had two shots on goal against 10 men.  How Wesley is so undroppable is one of the unsolved mysteries of this decade.

"He (Wesley) cost £22 million. Why wouldn't we play him" - Dean Smith.

Otherwise know as Dean Smith's Folly.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TonyD on December 28, 2019, 06:03:37 PM
Whatever his views on the 2nd and 3rd goals, the fact is that against one of the worst teams in the division, we had two shots on goal against 10 men.  How Wesley is so undroppable is one of the unsolved mysteries of this decade.
Maybe the owners have said he canít drop him.

That would go some way to explain this clusterfuck.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Rudy65 on December 28, 2019, 06:03:41 PM
If he goes, and I have to think it's 'when' now, I'm going to be distraught. I've never before been this emotionally invested in the manager. I'm personally finding all this a bit traumatic. Right here and now, I wish I could stop being a Villa fan for a bit.

Each to their own. But he isnít good enough and will take us down if we donít change now
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: curiousorange on December 28, 2019, 06:05:02 PM
If he goes, and I have to think it's 'when' now, I'm going to be distraught. I've never before been this emotionally invested in the manager. I'm personally finding all this a bit traumatic. Right here and now, I wish I could stop being a Villa fan for a bit.

I feel a little like this. Not especially for sentimental reasons, and not especially because I thought it was a brilliant idea to bring him in in the first place. But I thought we'd got a good fit, like Howe at Bournemouth or Chris Wilder. And now it's just the same old miserable bollocks that is peculiar to this club. We're the new Manchester City, when they were a football club and not a subsidiary.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Pete3206 on December 28, 2019, 06:05:54 PM
So he said he read them the 'riot act' at half time.

So what did he say? "That was crap. Now go out there and be even worse".

And saying that the Watford penalty wasn't a penalty is bordering on insanity.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 06:06:09 PM
All will be revealed in time ..........Smith is secretly a Blue Nose and Dr Tony is back in charge ........nurse !!!! !
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: olaftab on December 28, 2019, 06:07:21 PM
Thanks for getting us up Dean, but you're totally out of your depth and not up to the job at this level. 
You starting a manager out thread is becoming traditional. However I agree but should we not question Purslow? What was he thinking when selecting Dean?
Love Dean but he is not swimming.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: olaftab on December 28, 2019, 06:10:55 PM
I think his departure would be as much in his own interests as ours.  He is a young man and has time to rebuild a managerial career.  What will always be a mystery to me was the speed of his implosion.  I have seen loads of Villa managers lose the plot - Vic Crowe, Tommy Docherty, Graham Turner, Josef Venglos, Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Tactics Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde, RDM, Eric Black, Steve Bruce but not one of them at the same speed from hero to zero as Dean Smith.
Brian as he is a Villa fan surely he should do the right thing and resign for the sake of the club and the Club should do the right thing with appropriate compensation. If he stays it's going to get toxic and I don't want dean to be in the middle of that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 06:11:21 PM
that was difficult to listen to.
he keeps going on about the first half, yet he has 30 mins against 10 men at 0-1.
It was a shambles.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 06:14:39 PM
Whatever his views on the 2nd and 3rd goals, the fact is that against one of the worst teams in the division, we had two shots on goal against 10 men.  How Wesley is so undroppable is one of the unsolved mysteries of this decade.

"He (Wesley) cost £22 million. Why wouldn't we play him" - Dean Smith.

Otherwise know as Dean Smith's Folly.

Fucking hell. Thatís Lambert level utter bollocks.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 06:15:03 PM
I think his departure would be as much in his own interests as ours.  He is a young man and has time to rebuild a managerial career.  What will always be a mystery to me was the speed of his implosion.  I have seen loads of Villa managers lose the plot - Vic Crowe, Tommy Docherty, Graham Turner, Josef Venglos, Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Tactics Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde, RDM, Eric Black, Steve Bruce but not one of them at the same speed from hero to zero as Dean Smith.

He's a good Championship manager, woefully out of his depth.  Having said that, Pitarch needs the sack as well.  For identifying Wesley as a suitable replacement for Tammy Abraham, he wants fucking shooting.  This side now would be about 10th in the Championship at best.  I'd rather still have Adomah than El Ghazi or Trezeguet.  As for Jota, Jesus Christ.  The reason he wasn't in the Blues side is clearly because he is shit, not a misunderstood genius.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: dicedlam on December 28, 2019, 06:15:14 PM
It seems to me that he is trying to appease all players by giving them game time (apart from Kodjia that is).
This may work for the likes of Liverpool but not when you are in a relegation scrap.
Today's team selection was absolutely shocking.

Sorry Dean, but needs must...goodbye.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on December 28, 2019, 06:16:08 PM
Thanks for getting us up Dean, but you're totally out of your depth and not up to the job at this level. 
You starting a manager out thread is becoming traditional. However I agree but should we not question Purslow? What was he thinking when selecting Dean?
Love Dean but he is not swimming.


He was a good appointment. He did quite well at Walsall who never have a pot to piss in and he had Brentford punching above their weight in the Championship and an added bonus was his connection to Villa. It was a great decision to appoint him and he got us promoted. But sadly I think we have to replace him and give a new manager the chance to use the January transfer window to get us out of trouble. Do we go with a brave choice who might turn out as badly as Remi Garde did or do we go for a Big Sam 'survival but it won't be pretty or fun' type.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on December 28, 2019, 06:17:24 PM
Hurts me badly to say this, but Brentford have flourished since he left.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 28, 2019, 06:17:42 PM
Agree Aftab but I don't think he will.  We live in times now where money trumps honour.  Desperately sad but it the way it is these days.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: olaftab on December 28, 2019, 06:20:41 PM
that was difficult to listen to.
he keeps going on about the first half, yet he has 30 mins against 10 men at 0-1.
It was a shambles.
Add to that our other effort versus 10 men. Clueless.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Rudy65 on December 28, 2019, 06:23:57 PM
that was difficult to listen to.
he keeps going on about the first half, yet he has 30 mins against 10 men at 0-1.
It was a shambles.

And a clear penalty. Foul on Grealish was a bit 50:50 for the third

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: dicedlam on December 28, 2019, 06:31:34 PM
I think his departure would be as much in his own interests as ours.  He is a young man and has time to rebuild a managerial career.  What will always be a mystery to me was the speed of his implosion.  I have seen loads of Villa managers lose the plot - Vic Crowe, Tommy Docherty, Graham Turner, Josef Venglos, Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Tactics Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde, RDM, Eric Black, Steve Bruce but not one of them at the same speed from hero to zero as Dean Smith.

He's a good Championship manager, woefully out of his depth.  Having said that, Pitarch needs the sack as well.  For identifying Wesley as a suitable replacement for Tammy Abraham, he wants fucking shooting.  This side now would be about 10th in the Championship at best.  I'd rather still have Adomah than El Ghazi or Trezeguet.  As for Jota, Jesus Christ.  The reason he wasn't in the Blues side is clearly because he is shit, not a misunderstood genius.

Smith said at the beginning of the season that he had been surprised that no Premier League team had come in for Jota...deary me!
Totally agree about Pitarch. His head should also roll.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Madferret62 on December 28, 2019, 06:32:35 PM
Entitled surrender monkeyís . Give the fella time. Who in? Bruce maybe, fuck that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 06:35:43 PM
Entitled surrender monkeyís . Give the fella time. Who in? Bruce maybe, fuck that.

Madferret, well named.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on December 28, 2019, 06:37:13 PM
You canít be that bad a manager.

But he was in the championship as well. The same things happened in the championship before Jack came back and saved him, and now theyíre happening in the Premier League. Heís had two different sets of players and exactly the same problems with tactics etc. are there. The evidence of Smiths managerial ability has been there for over a year
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2019, 06:37:47 PM
Read them the riot act at half time?

But we were actually worse in the second half.

They had a man sent off and inside less than fifteen minutes we conceded two more goals.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 06:40:35 PM
Itís sad, but it is time. Heís had the opportunity, but he clearly canít adapt.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 28, 2019, 06:40:57 PM
I think his departure would be as much in his own interests as ours.  He is a young man and has time to rebuild a managerial career.  What will always be a mystery to me was the speed of his implosion.  I have seen loads of Villa managers lose the plot - Vic Crowe, Tommy Docherty, Graham Turner, Josef Venglos, Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Tactics Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde, RDM, Eric Black, Steve Bruce but not one of them at the same speed from hero to zero as Dean Smith.

He's a good Championship manager, woefully out of his depth.  Having said that, Pitarch needs the sack as well.  For identifying Wesley as a suitable replacement for Tammy Abraham, he wants fucking shooting.  This side now would be about 10th in the Championship at best.  I'd rather still have Adomah than El Ghazi or Trezeguet.  As for Jota, Jesus Christ.  The reason he wasn't in the Blues side is clearly because he is shit, not a misunderstood genius.

So what youíre saying is that, given the resources, Smith is overachieving and you think he is doing a decent job?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 28, 2019, 06:42:09 PM
He says in his interview that he does not read the riot act very often.   Perhaps if he did we would not be where we are.  He has developed the arrogance frequently found in stubborn men.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 06:44:36 PM
He says in his interview that he does not read the riot act very often.   Perhaps if he did we would not be where we are.  He has developed the arrogance frequently found in stubborn men.

Based on the second half I donít think itíd add much value.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 06:48:35 PM
Norwich beat Man City this season, drew at Leicester and are beating Spurs. They should have beaten us the other day. The fact that they can battered by us earlier yet can raise their game and compete in other games makes me thinking eventually all these other sides will put together enough good displays to see us finish bottom of the table as long as Dean Smith is in charge.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2019, 06:49:26 PM
Norwich best Man City this season, drew at Leicester and are beating Spurs. They should have beaten us the other day. The fact that they can raise their game and compete makes me thinking eventually all these other sides will put together enough good displays to see us finish bottom of the table as long as Dean Smith is in charge.

I know we somehow beat them, but compare the energy and buzz about Norwich, and Southampton for that matter, to our lethargy.

It is really striking,
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 06:51:16 PM
Norwich best Man City this season, drew at Leicester and are beating Spurs. They should have beaten us the other day. The fact that they can raise their game and compete makes me thinking eventually all these other sides will put together enough good displays to see us finish bottom of the table as long as Dean Smith is in charge.

I know we somehow beat them, but compare the energy and buzz about Norwich, and Southampton for that matter, to our lethargy.

It is really striking,

Maybe the players gave up on Smith and haven't been trying so hard?

He did badly manage a lot of games earlier in the season where points were thrown away.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 06:52:20 PM
I actually think there is some truth to that. Morale and confidence have taken a battering this season. Players arenít stupid. They know when something isnít working.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 06:52:22 PM
Norwich best Man City this season, drew at Leicester and are beating Spurs. They should have beaten us the other day. The fact that they can raise their game and compete makes me thinking eventually all these other sides will put together enough good displays to see us finish bottom of the table as long as Dean Smith is in charge.

I know we somehow beat them, but compare the energy and buzz about Norwich, and Southampton for that matter, to our lethargy.

It is really striking,

Yep itís back to that old thing of managers making their players better. Sadly ours isnít doing that.

I said it in the match thread, Chris Wilder is making Enda Stevens a capable Premier League player. Dean canít get a tune out of any of our lot.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2019, 06:53:33 PM
Hurts me badly to say this, but Brentford have flourished since he left.

This is the thing. He doesn't seem bad, but he doesn't really look like the miracle worker some might have thought we'd got.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Aldridge Villa on December 28, 2019, 06:54:57 PM
Our players seem to have been running in treacle the last 10 years or so with the odd exception. What goes on fitness wise at Bodymoor God only knows. Still seems something not quite right behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on December 28, 2019, 06:55:00 PM
I just donít get it
Iím everything everyone is saying but Iím also totally bemused

Smith came  with a clear footballing philosophy, pass and move front foot football with a priority on attacking football
and we did play that way for a time, a long time
Performances were the best weíve seen for years

even in the prem we have performed at a high level times,
many of the players who have now turned into proper shit baskets have done a million times better than this


today was probably the worst Iíve ever seen given the opposition and circumstances
he looks like a drowning man, how on earth did this happen

How the fuck did we get to this


Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2019, 06:55:32 PM
Thanks for getting us up Dean, but you're totally out of your depth and not up to the job at this level. 
You starting a manager out thread is becoming traditional. However I agree but should we not question Purslow? What was he thinking when selecting Dean?
Love Dean but he is not swimming.


He was a good appointment. He did quite well at Walsall who never have a pot to piss in and he had Brentford punching above their weight in the Championship and an added bonus was his connection to Villa. It was a great decision to appoint him and he got us promoted. But sadly I think we have to replace him and give a new manager the chance to use the January transfer window to get us out of trouble. Do we go with a brave choice who might turn out as badly as Remi Garde did or do we go for a Big Sam 'survival but it won't be pretty or fun' type.

Not sure we are solely limited to those two options mate.  Look at Everton bringing in Ancelotti.  It's up to the owners to make the club attractive enough to a high calibre manager if they choose to look for a different option in the near future. 

One thing for sure is that we will become less attractive the further adrift we become.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 28, 2019, 06:56:54 PM
Norwich best Man City this season, drew at Leicester and are beating Spurs. They should have beaten us the other day. The fact that they can raise their game and compete makes me thinking eventually all these other sides will put together enough good displays to see us finish bottom of the table as long as Dean Smith is in charge.

I know we somehow beat them, but compare the energy and buzz about Norwich, and Southampton for that matter, to our lethargy.

It is really striking,

Yep itís back to that old thing of managers making their players better. Sadly ours isnít doing that.

I said it in the match thread, Chris Wilder is making Enda Stevens a capable Premier League player. Dean canít get a tune out of any of our lot.

That is the biggest issue for me currently. The players are decent - not amazing - but better than we are currently showing/positioned. Mentioned it elsewhere but at the moment we are playing in a way that exposes their/our weaknesses rather than accentuation the positive aspects to our team. He really needs to be doing more to help the players at the moment.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2019, 06:58:36 PM
I think sadly he just doesn't seem good enough, stuck in another era just as much as Bruce was. I remember an interview with Fabregas after he went to Barcelona where he went on about how, unlike Wenger, Pep spent hours preparing plans for every different opponent. If Wenger can get left behind, so can Dean Smith, and it strikes me he's been left behind in the same way.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2019, 07:01:27 PM
I just donít get it
Iím everything everyone is saying but Iím also totally bemused

Smith came  with a clear footballing philosophy, pass and move front foot football with a priority on attacking football
and we did play that way for a time, a long time
Performances were the best weíve seen for years

even in the prem we have performed at a high level times,
many of the players who have now turned into proper shit baskets have done a million times better than this


today was probably the worst Iíve ever seen given the opposition and circumstances
he looks like a drowning man, how on earth did this happen

How the fuck did we get to this

During the Southampton game I found myself looking at our side and thinking how little top flight experience we had out there.  Young, inexperienced players are going to have high and lows during a season and unfortunately we now have a side full of players all at a low point and who are completely devoid of any confidence.  Unfortunately, those signings are backed up in the squad by players who are frankly mid-table Championship players at best, so there isn't exactly anyone in the squad who can make any kind of difference.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 07:01:37 PM
I think sadly he just doesn't seem good enough, stuck in another era just as much as Bruce was. I remember an interview with Fabregas after he went to Barcelona where he went on about how, unlike Wenger, Pep spent hours preparing plans for every different opponent. If Wenger can get left behind, so can Dean Smith, and it strikes me he's been left behind in the same way.

Spot on.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 07:02:56 PM
The plus point is that we're not cut adrift, so a new manager with some money to spend might be able to turn it around.  Unlike if we stick with Smith, when I wouldn't be confident of winning another game all season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 07:03:38 PM
Norwich beat Man City this season, drew at Leicester and are beating Spurs. They should have beaten us the other day. The fact that they can battered by us earlier yet can raise their game and compete in other games makes me thinking eventually all these other sides will put together enough good displays to see us finish bottom of the table as long as Dean Smith is in charge.

There isn't enough personality in the team. Grealish and McGinn both have it. Mings today would've relished the battle v Deeney. Heaton aswell but only so much you can influence as the keeper.

When the going gets tough we go into hiding as a team and that's probably reflective of our poor record v the better teams compared to everyone else.

To stay up we're going to have to beat a few of the bigger names in this league given majority of our home games left are against them. Can't see anything to convince me DS is the manager capable of doing it so that's the first problem.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 07:05:38 PM
I just donít get it
Iím everything everyone is saying but Iím also totally bemused

Smith came  with a clear footballing philosophy, pass and move front foot football with a priority on attacking football
and we did play that way for a time, a long time
Performances were the best weíve seen for years

even in the prem we have performed at a high level times,
many of the players who have now turned into proper shit baskets have done a million times better than this


today was probably the worst Iíve ever seen given the opposition and circumstances
he looks like a drowning man, how on earth did this happen

How the fuck did we get to this
I can only believe it is pressure, you can get away with so much more in the Championship. But when it started to go wrong he seemed to freeze in the headlights.The beginning for me was the Arsenal game, we had the match won against 10 men and he did nothing to help the team get over the line. We lost and thats when the doubts began.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
The plus point is that we're not cut adrift, so a new manager with some money to spend might be able to turn it around.  Unlike if we stick with Smith, when I wouldn't be confident of winning another game all season.
Still a massive ask, I hope they have a plan B and its now in motion.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Dougs Socks on December 28, 2019, 07:08:30 PM
I think our problem lies a lot deeper than the Manager, and whether he remains or stays, that problem will may well still be here after. Not looking forward to our coming recruitment at all...



https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/la-liga/2017/01/06/31221842/valencia-have-bought-s-players?ICID=TP_HN_HP_RI_1_2 (https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/la-liga/2017/01/06/31221842/valencia-have-bought-s-players?ICID=TP_HN_HP_RI_1_2)

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/09/03/the-decline-of-real-zaragoza-a-club-once-lifting-trophies-amongst-laligas-elite/ (https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/09/03/the-decline-of-real-zaragoza-a-club-once-lifting-trophies-amongst-laligas-elite/)

https://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2017/02/07/5899e0e4268e3e49398b45f6.html (https://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2017/02/07/5899e0e4268e3e49398b45f6.html)

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 07:11:22 PM
The plus point is that we're not cut adrift, so a new manager with some money to spend might be able to turn it around.  Unlike if we stick with Smith, when I wouldn't be confident of winning another game all season.
Still a massive ask, I hope they have a plan B and its now in motion.


Trouble is Pellegrini might be through the door soon, so we'll be competing with a London club.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 28, 2019, 07:13:15 PM
Agree Monty.  However, being left behind and taking steps to remedy the dislocation is infinitely better than being in denial about it.  That is why the best managers have the best assistants around them.  That is why stubbornness bites managers in the arse.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 07:15:23 PM
I actually think there is some truth to that. Morale and confidence have taken a battering this season. Players arenít stupid. They know when something isnít working.

While I have had worries about individual players all season, Wesley, Targett and Trez, if I am being honest Smith has been my main concern.

Until the game at Old Trafford, I had confidence in the squad to stay up but had doubts about Smith's capacity to squeeze the best out of it. Let's be honest, we do have players with ability, the problem has been the manager's inability to make shrewd decisions to close games out. Off the top of my head, the  three games against, Arsenal, Liverpool and West Ham really should have yielded more than a single point (and that's not counting the disappointing home loss to Bournemouth in front of a sell-out Villa Park on our return to the premier league). 

With a proven manager, and an experienced signing or two, I think I would back this group of players to get 5-6 more wins.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: algy on December 28, 2019, 07:16:14 PM
I think our problem lies a lot deeper than the Manager, and whether he remains or stays, that problem will may well still be here after. Not looking forward to our coming recruitment at all...



https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/la-liga/2017/01/06/31221842/valencia-have-bought-s-players?ICID=TP_HN_HP_RI_1_2 (https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/la-liga/2017/01/06/31221842/valencia-have-bought-s-players?ICID=TP_HN_HP_RI_1_2)

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/09/03/the-decline-of-real-zaragoza-a-club-once-lifting-trophies-amongst-laligas-elite/ (https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/09/03/the-decline-of-real-zaragoza-a-club-once-lifting-trophies-amongst-laligas-elite/)

https://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2017/02/07/5899e0e4268e3e49398b45f6.html (https://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2017/02/07/5899e0e4268e3e49398b45f6.html)
Must admit, Pitarch was a bit of a worry for me when he came. Seems a bit of a one hit wonder, and that hit was some time ago now ...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 07:18:29 PM
The plus point is that we're not cut adrift, so a new manager with some money to spend might be able to turn it around.  Unlike if we stick with Smith, when I wouldn't be confident of winning another game all season.
Still a massive ask, I hope they have a plan B and its now in motion.


Trouble is Pellegrini might be through the door soon, so we'll be competing with a London club.
A London Club with Shithouse owners though.
Clutching at straws andhopeitsPoch.com
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Taylor on December 28, 2019, 07:19:27 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of us was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 07:22:17 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!

There was no point coming up to go back down. We don't want to become a yo-yo club. If we go down we will lose Grealish. If it is a choice between Smith and Grealish.... thanks Dean but goodbye.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 07:22:18 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!

Nonsense.  He's had a chance, and it's getting worse with every passing week.  We've just had the easiest run of games we could have wished for, and we managed the grand total of three points.  We need to sack him now to give the new boss a chance to bring players in and get us out of this mess.  I honestly couldn't give a stuff that he's a Villa fan, the only fact that concerns me is whether he's good enough to keep us up, and he isn't.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 28, 2019, 07:22:26 PM
Has he gone yet?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2019, 07:22:42 PM
Agree Monty.  However, being left behind and taking steps to remedy the dislocation is infinitely better than being in denial about it.  That is why the best managers have the best assistants around them.  That is why stubbornness bites managers in the arse.

He can change of course, but perhaps he's too busy and too close to it right now to look broadly at what he needs to improve. Maybe a break and some introspection would do him some good - but we can't wait that long sadly.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 28, 2019, 07:22:54 PM
I think sadly he just doesn't seem good enough, stuck in another era just as much as Bruce was. I remember an interview with Fabregas after he went to Barcelona where he went on about how, unlike Wenger, Pep spent hours preparing plans for every different opponent. If Wenger can get left behind, so can Dean Smith, and it strikes me he's been left behind in the same way.

Iím not sure that this is the case. I still think the Smith could very well be successful in the long term. I think we saw in glimpses at the start of the season that they way he sets us up and wants us to play can work. The problem is that the players arenít always good/consistent enough and he has so far lacked the pragmatism to do enough about it. Smith recognising this and doing something about it in the short term is the key.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 28, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
Hurts me badly to say this, but Brentford have flourished since he left.

This is the thing. He doesn't seem bad, but he doesn't really look like the miracle worker some might have thought we'd got.

Indeed. Not knowing much before he joined us and listening to those that knew about him, I must admit to being both surprised and extremely disappointed. Tactically, we've probably had worse but this was something we were told was one of his stronger points. Develop players? Must be another Smith. Chris? Unlike Chris, he seems a decent bloke but I'm struggling with just how poor he's been. He manages to say all the right things at his post match interviews but he's obviously bi-polar as he appears to do the opposite thereafter.

Very sad that it hasn't worked out for him and us. Saddest thing of all is there's not a single straw to clutch onto. Nothing that says, he's getting that right, he just needs a bit more time and a tiny bit of luck. Something has gone seriously wrong, we can argue whether or not he had it to begin with but right now, there's nothing left to defend him other than, who next? Even that's not really an argument for keeping him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 07:25:52 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of us was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!
We also have the future king as Villa fan.......like that's gonna save us
Failure to act now will come back and bite us on the arse
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 07:26:27 PM
Hurts me badly to say this, but Brentford have flourished since he left.

This is the thing. He doesn't seem bad, but he doesn't really look like the miracle worker some might have thought we'd got.

Indeed. Not knowing much before he joined us and listening to those that knew about him, I must admit to being both surprised and extremely disappointed. Tactically, we've probably had worse but this was something we were told was one of his stronger points. Develop players? Must be another Smith. Chris? Unlike Chris, he seems a decent bloke but I'm struggling with just how poor he's been. He manages to say all the right things at his post match interviews but he's obviously bi-polar as he appears to do the opposite thereafter.

Very sad that it hasn't worked out for him and us. Saddest thing of all is there's not a single straw to clutch onto. Nothing that says, he's getting that right, he just needs a bit more time and a tiny bit of luck. Something has gone seriously wrong, we can argue whether or not he had it to begin with but right now, there's nothing left to defend him other than, who next? Even that's not really an argument for keeping him.
With sadness I agree with you.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2019, 07:31:49 PM
It will be very interesting to see what the owners do now as Iím stating the obvious but to change now is at least giving a new manager a window to bring in new players.
Or does Smith deserve an opportunity to strengthen a creaking squad?
Surely weíll know sooner rather than later i.e within days.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2019, 07:33:12 PM
I think sadly he just doesn't seem good enough, stuck in another era just as much as Bruce was. I remember an interview with Fabregas after he went to Barcelona where he went on about how, unlike Wenger, Pep spent hours preparing plans for every different opponent. If Wenger can get left behind, so can Dean Smith, and it strikes me he's been left behind in the same way.

Iím not sure that this is the case. I still think the Smith could very well be successful in the long term. I think we saw in glimpses at the start of the season that they way he sets us up and wants us to play can work. The problem is that the players arenít always good/consistent enough and he has so far lacked the pragmatism to do enough about it. Smith recognising this and doing something about it in the short term is the key.

Those better early performances actually inform my point of view though. We've been worked out and he hasn't reacted. Never mind game management, he doesn't seem to believe in managing across a season, reacting to the most obvious developments with changes of any sort. Smith has been tasked with helping there players gel, yet we're in the familiar position of watching players who looked good elsewhere wondering around the pitch as if they've never met each other, shot of confidence and working to a plan everyone knows isn't going to work from minute five of every match but which never changes.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2019, 07:33:19 PM
I don't think the owners will sack Smith at all. They'll keep faith.
Something needs to change, the players heads have dropped - has something gone on? are they no longer behind Smith's approach? they look void of any fight, they're not getting stuck in for the gaffer. I wonder what JT is bringing to the party here too? surely he could help get the lads fired up.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on December 28, 2019, 07:35:19 PM
I reckon he would be gone if it wasnít for that 4 year contract

I know paying out seems insignificant when itís relegation your talking about
but itís more about face

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 07:36:14 PM
I reckon he would be gone if it wasnít for that 4 year contract

I know paying out seems insignificant when itís relegation your talking about
but itís more about face



All about money.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Smirker on December 28, 2019, 07:36:42 PM
Sad to see but I can't actually disagree with it. We're in freefall 😔
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 07:38:16 PM
Part of me hopes we bin him asap, not because i'm completely done with him but it would sadden me to see us fully turning on him. Whereas if he went now most would be able to see his time here as a positive with some fantastic memories of that time. For the first time in a long time we became a Villa we pretty much all loved, everyone seemed in it together and it was genuinely fun being Villa again and a lot of that was down to DS.

I was gutted when fans turned on Sir Brian and SGT and hope Dean is gone before that happens to him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 07:39:58 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of us was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!

Where were we a year ago? Fecking shite at home to QPR.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LamBeast on December 28, 2019, 07:40:27 PM
If he doesnít get the bullet now,we are down,period.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2019, 07:45:02 PM
If he doesnít get the bullet now,we are down,period.

I hate phrases like 'get the bullet'.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on December 28, 2019, 07:46:04 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of us was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!

Agree. Sacking the manager did nothing to help Fulham. Board to back him in Jan and us to get behind the team.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john2710 on December 28, 2019, 07:48:52 PM
I reckon he would be gone if it wasnít for that 4 year contract

I know paying out seems insignificant when itís relegation your talking about
but itís more about face

It won't be a 4 year payoff though.
It's a question of who's available & are they any better?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: DB on December 28, 2019, 07:48:56 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of us was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!

Agree. Sacking the manager did nothing to help Fulham. Board to back him in Jan and us to get behind the team.

Doing ok for Watford and Everton so far.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2019, 07:49:53 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of us was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!

Agree. Sacking the manager did nothing to help Fulham. Board to back him in Jan and us to get behind the team.

Whether itís the right decision or not this is what I think will happen.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Smirker on December 28, 2019, 07:49:59 PM
It upsets me that people are turning on Smith too. Questions need to be asked yes.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 07:52:07 PM
I like that heís a Villa fan. But in the end I really donít care. I want him to be successful and if heís not then he shouldnít be manager of our club.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 28, 2019, 07:56:19 PM
I think sadly he just doesn't seem good enough, stuck in another era just as much as Bruce was. I remember an interview with Fabregas after he went to Barcelona where he went on about how, unlike Wenger, Pep spent hours preparing plans for every different opponent. If Wenger can get left behind, so can Dean Smith, and it strikes me he's been left behind in the same way.

Iím not sure that this is the case. I still think the Smith could very well be successful in the long term. I think we saw in glimpses at the start of the season that they way he sets us up and wants us to play can work. The problem is that the players arenít always good/consistent enough and he has so far lacked the pragmatism to do enough about it. Smith recognising this and doing something about it in the short term is the key.

Those better early performances actually inform my point of view though. We've been worked out and he hasn't reacted. Never mind game management, he doesn't seem to believe in managing across a season, reacting to the most obvious developments with changes of any sort. Smith has been tasked with helping there players gel, yet we're in the familiar position of watching players who looked good elsewhere wondering around the pitch as if they've never met each other, shot of confidence and working to a plan everyone knows isn't going to work from minute five of every match but which never changes.

My point was that I donít think he has necessarily been left behind in the same way some managers have been or do we know for definite that there is a clear ceiling to his management like there is with Bruce etc. I think his ideas can be successful.

Where I completely agree with you is that we have been found out from earlier in the season, teams know how to play against us, and for whatever reason he has so far been unable or unwilling to change. The low confidence of the players at the moment is key and he hasnít done enough to help them currently. He canít keep doing the same thing that is not currently working and I think if he does he probably will be sacked. I hope he is able to show enough pragmatism to get us out of the current predicament. I completely understand, and generally share, peopleís concerns regarding this - Iím honestly not sure whether he will or not.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 07:57:41 PM
I think sadly he just doesn't seem good enough, stuck in another era just as much as Bruce was. I remember an interview with Fabregas after he went to Barcelona where he went on about how, unlike Wenger, Pep spent hours preparing plans for every different opponent. If Wenger can get left behind, so can Dean Smith, and it strikes me he's been left behind in the same way.

He's barely managed at top level to be left behind and is still very young for a top flight manager.

Ultimately at the top level everything is just quicker and sharper. The opposition and also the decisions you have to make regarding subs and team shape.

Dean seems to me to be operating at championship speed given how long it takes to make subs and also get injured players off like Mings. Stuff you can get away with mostly at championship level given we were one of the better teams down there but here all season we've lost leads in games because of indecision.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mike on December 28, 2019, 07:59:10 PM
That team sheet was fucking madness.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: aj2k77 on December 28, 2019, 08:03:39 PM
He's hit the stage of throwing different names around now to see if some mud will stick. That's a sign of the end for me, the coup d'grace will be a full back playing as a wide midfielder. He doesn't look like he has a clue what to do with this set of players he's purchased for a pretty penny, only one formation, which doesn't work.

Goodnight and goodbye. Simply not good enough for this division. Neither are we.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 08:05:07 PM
Just about everybody in the match thread pointed out the insanity of his team choice, and it panned out exactly as most of us predicted.

Smith also said that this half time was the first time he'd had to read the riot act to his team.  Er, what did you say at half time against Sheffield United then?  Or any of the other recent games when we've been absolute garbage?  Smith is too soft, too inexperienced, and just not up to the task.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: garyfouroaks on December 28, 2019, 08:09:48 PM
Time's up, Dean.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 28, 2019, 08:10:04 PM
He's hit the stage of throwing different names around now to see if some mud will stick. That's a sign of the end for me, the coup d'grace will be a full back playing as a wide midfielder. He doesn't look like he has a clue what to do with this set of players he's purchased for a pretty penny, only one formation, which doesn't work.


I donít think that is quite the case. I do think he is sort of stuck at the moment (since Leicester) in between the idea of how he wants us to play and the realisation that the team/players arenít quite good enough to do that in this league at the moment and we are getting some horrible halfway house solution where he is trying to make us more solid but we are also losing what we had going forward at the same time. He needs to make a change, and a decent transfer window, otherwise we will go down.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: vilan461 on December 28, 2019, 08:11:26 PM
A worrying point of concern to me today is that  Deano said that he read them "the riot act at half -time" quite rightly---------------
But what was the response?----to concede a further 2 goals against 10 men!!! not good not good at all----does this imply they are not playing for him? and that he is loosing or might already have lost the dressing room.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 08:13:33 PM
The signs are there that the player's have given up on him: lack of effort, lack of fight, body-language being off, rumours of team meetings that he has not been present for and, for me the clincher, his comment that he read them the riot act at half time but they actually got worse and against ten men.

The throwing away of points in the first quarter of the season must have taken its toll.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on December 28, 2019, 08:14:24 PM
That team sheet was fucking madness.

I like Smith, but you can't disagree with that.

I predicted a tonking before the game, but if I'd seen that line up I'd have predicted to lose by five or more.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2019, 08:15:14 PM
the big concern for me, is that when we was playing well (better) - we wasn't winning enough.... now plan A isn't working, and there isn't a plan B - there's not a lot of hope - we didn't replace Abraham, a good striker, even when you're playing shit, still gives you a hope.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SamTheMouse on December 28, 2019, 08:19:07 PM
I really like the bloke, and the effort to get us promoted last season was brilliant.

But it looks to me as if he's lost the confidence of the players, and that's fatal for any manager.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ROBBO on December 28, 2019, 08:19:30 PM
We started the season well playing attractive football with the players up for it so lets stop saying the players are not good enough. Look at some of the players we deemed not good enough yet have done well at other clubs, it comes back to the manager and his getting the best out of what he's got and for some reason Dean Smith is failing.
His team selection today was ridiculous and defied logic, if it's true the players had a meeting without him it spells trouble.
I am suspicious of the fact that Wesley appears undropable, it's not the owners I'm sure but there must be something.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 08:20:36 PM
Didn't Schmiechel have it written into his contract that if he was fit he must be first choice GK?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 08:20:46 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 08:21:07 PM
Well said ROBBO
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on December 28, 2019, 08:21:13 PM
North stand face removal is going to be awkward.

Whoever thought that was a good idea also needs to go.

What a bundle of fun you are.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: garyfouroaks on December 28, 2019, 08:21:43 PM
Dean had certainly earned hid crack at the PL.

But last year we were the fifth best team in the Championship and bought an entire new team's worth of players. Morphing that into a PL competitive outfit was going to be a challenge for anyone.

Dean has had a go - and it is not working.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 08:22:17 PM
Some of the U23s should be given a chance against Burnley or Fulham as most of the first team squad are not producing the goods at the moment.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 08:22:26 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Agreed .... "the writing was on the wall" from the off
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VWBelgian on December 28, 2019, 08:22:56 PM
Always same plan, no plan b. 
Better stayed last year in CC ... And buid a team, dont buy a team.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 28, 2019, 08:23:28 PM
Dean had certainly earned hid crack at the PL.

But last year we were the fifth best team in the Championship and bought an entire new team's worth of players. Morphing that into a PL competitive outfit was going to be a challenge for anyone.

Dean has had a go - and it is not working.

Yup, not his fault but we probably need to see if we can find a miracle somewhere else
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 08:25:48 PM
Where is the evidence of this Treasonous player meeting?

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on December 28, 2019, 08:28:19 PM
Just got back from Watford. Very disappointing however Iím not going along with most people on here. Deano is one of us and Iíll never turn on him. He got us promoted and deserves the chance to turn this around.

Our fans are so fickle. Iím sticking with Deano, it was always going to be tough.

UTV.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2019, 08:28:22 PM
We don't even need "a miracle". A couple of wins and everything looks different. We just don't look like getting them under Smith, sadly. Or by the time we do, it'll be too late.

New manager, new manager bounce, win the League Cup, finish fourteenth, and we will all be wondering what all the fuss was about.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: auntiesledd on December 28, 2019, 08:33:11 PM
Sadly, the time has come for the owners to act decisively & quickly.

OUT
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2019, 08:35:41 PM
Didn't Schmiechel have it written into his contract that if he was fit he must be first choice GK?
was he ever fit?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on December 28, 2019, 08:37:15 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on December 28, 2019, 08:41:21 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and.. 

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 08:42:18 PM
boutros no need to tell me to eff off, have more than that mate.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2019, 08:46:48 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and..

Most have turned on him now on here.
And there is enough evidence to convict.
Iím hoping he gets more time but the numbers in his corner are diminishing by the hour.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 28, 2019, 08:47:27 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off

We really should not be speaking to each other with such a lack of respect.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on December 28, 2019, 08:49:24 PM
Quite right, you can disagree and be civil.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villadelph on December 28, 2019, 08:51:12 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off

We really should not be speaking to each other with such a lack of respect.

Agreed, given 8 minutes later we were up 1-0 away to Spurs..
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 08:52:02 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off
There's clearly no need for that .....fine to disagree but no need for disrespecting  a fellow poster
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 08:53:06 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off

We really should not be speaking to each other with such a lack of respect.

Agreed, given 8 minutes later we were up 1-0 away to Spurs..

Agolopies I meant the Bournemouth match
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2019, 08:54:09 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off

We really should not be speaking to each other with such a lack of respect.

Agreed, given 8 minutes later we were up 1-0 away to Spurs..

Not at eight minutes after 3.01 we weren't, the game kicked off at half five 😉
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 08:55:54 PM
Keep it civil, please.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on December 28, 2019, 08:56:31 PM
Compare Man Utd Fans who refuse to turn on Ole no matter how shit they are, with our fickle fans who turn on one of their own at the first sign of trouble...

Weíre living up to our fickle reputation here.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 08:56:54 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off

We really should not be speaking to each other with such a lack of respect.

Agreed, given 8 minutes later we were up 1-0 away to Spurs..

Agolopies I meant the Bournemouth match
I knew what you meant :)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2019, 08:57:01 PM
Man U fans are wrong, though. Solskjaer should have gone months ago.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 08:58:49 PM
At 3.01pm on the opening day we were in big trouble.
Oh fuck off

We really should not be speaking to each other with such a lack of respect.

Agreed, given 8 minutes later we were up 1-0 away to Spurs..

Agolopies I meant the Bournemouth match
I knew what you meant :)

Many thanks i'm glad someone did!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villadelph on December 28, 2019, 08:59:53 PM
Compare Man Utd Fans who refuse to turn on Ole no matter how shit they are, with our fickle fans who turn on one of their own at the first sign of trouble...

Weíre living up to our fickle reputation here.

If Man United had spent 100 million, picked up 18 points in 20 matches, dropped 10+ points from winning positions and were 18th in the league it would be a little different.

And in case you havent been paying attention, plenty of those glory hunters are calling for a new manager.

It's football, its a result business and we look dead in the water. Whether you want to blame tactics, scouting, ignorance or incompetence no one wants to spend another 3 years in the championship.

Stop complaining about people complaining a suggest a better solution.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 09:00:04 PM
Compare Man Utd Fans who refuse to turn on Ole no matter how shit they are, with our fickle fans who turn on one of their own at the first sign of trouble...

Weíre living up to our fickle reputation here.

We are staring relegation in the face, getting worse, and sticking to a formation that hasn't been working.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 09:01:17 PM
West Ham sacked Pellegrini.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 28, 2019, 09:01:19 PM
Compare Man Utd Fans who refuse to turn on Ole no matter how shit they are, with our fickle fans who turn on one of their own at the first sign of trouble...

Weíre living up to our fickle reputation here.

Not sure thatís accurate, no one has turned on DS down the match and Iím not sure the majority would but, I think its not unfair to start talking about the future as itís getting clear that itís likely we will be making a change. Iíd love to see him back after a few years elsewhere.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 09:02:02 PM
Compare Man Utd Fans who refuse to turn on Ole no matter how shit they are, with our fickle fans who turn on one of their own at the first sign of trouble...

Weíre living up to our fickle reputation here.

Let's see how long they fully back Ole after 1 win in 10 when they are in the bottom 3 with performances getting worse each game.

And it's the 3rd sign of trouble.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 28, 2019, 09:02:12 PM
Compare Man Utd Fans who refuse to turn on Ole no matter how shit they are, with our fickle fans who turn on one of their own at the first sign of trouble...

Weíre living up to our fickle reputation here.
Wrong.There is a sizable number want him gone.Only the tourists like him
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 09:02:23 PM
West Ham sacked Pellegrini.

Thats bad news for us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 09:02:42 PM
If only Dean were a bit more fickle he might have come up with some alternative plans by now.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 09:03:05 PM
A failed manager to replace a failing manager?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: rougegorge on December 28, 2019, 09:04:51 PM
West Ham sacked Pellegrini.

Thats bad news for us.
Yes. We could end up fiddling while Rome burns.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on December 28, 2019, 09:05:19 PM
Compare Man Utd Fans who refuse to turn on Ole no matter how shit they are, with our fickle fans who turn on one of their own at the first sign of trouble...

Weíre living up to our fickle reputation here.

We are staring relegation in the face, getting worse, and sticking to a formation that hasn't been working.

The players have got to be liberated from this failing system we keep playing. I dont think that's possible under Dean. He's sticking with it because he has nothing else.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 28, 2019, 09:05:19 PM
Wet Spam act decisively. Weíll dither and delay and fuck it up no doubt.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: jwarry on December 28, 2019, 09:05:48 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and.. 



Yes I agree Marlon. I canít get to games living too far away so I always follow the match thread on here, but today I turned it off as I just couldnít stand the negativity. Sure Dean is having a bad time and you can see he is now starting to feel the pressure, but I will back him even if we go down. He had no choice but  to pull a brand new team together who didn't know each other nor did they have PL experience, and for the first quarter of the season got away with it. I have questioned his tactics sometimes but the real issue is that the reality of the cards he was dealt came to the fore when confidence took a knock and now they are running scared and have lost the bravery they showed in knocking the ball about. This is now a huge test for Dean but if turns it around then he will be a better manager for it.

I donít think I will follow another match thread again whilst Dean is in charge which is a shame really
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 09:06:14 PM
West Ham sacked Pellegrini.

Thats bad news for us.
Yes. We could end up fiddling while Rome burns.

Ending the dreadful 2010s as we started them.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john2710 on December 28, 2019, 09:07:08 PM
We don't have the players good enough or experienced enough to play in this league. Couple that with a management team that seem to be equally lacking in quality & experience & there is only one outcome.

I see West Ham have acted.....

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 09:14:22 PM
Keep it civil, please.

thanks mr/mrs mod.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Taylor on December 28, 2019, 09:20:03 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and.. 



Yes I agree Marlon. I canít get to games living too far away so I always follow the match thread on here, but today I turned it off as I just couldnít stand the negativity. Sure Dean is having a bad time and you can see he is now starting to feel the pressure, but I will back him even if we go down. He had no choice but  to pull a brand new team together who didn't know each other nor did they have PL experience, and for the first quarter of the season got away with it. I have questioned his tactics sometimes but the real issue is that the reality of the cards he was dealt came to the fore when confidence took a knock and now they are running scared and have lost the bravery they showed in knocking the ball about. This is now a huge test for Dean but if turns it around then he will be a better manager for it.

I donít think I will follow another match thread again whilst Dean is in charge which is a shame really
I absolutely agree, though I will still follow the match threads, hopefully those turning on Smith will regret their haste to wanít him gone.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 09:24:23 PM
Keep it civil, please.

thanks mr/mrs mod.

It's a polite request aimed at all posting. If you don't like it, try elsewhere.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 28, 2019, 09:24:33 PM
Sure Dean is having a bad time and you can see he is now starting to feel the pressure, but I will back him even if we go down. He had no choice but  to pull a brand new team together who didn't know each other nor did they have PL experience
Unless Dean had no input whatsoever into our summer recruitment, he has to shoulder some responsibility for that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Vill I An on December 28, 2019, 09:25:15 PM
Those turning on Smith don't know a good head coach when they see one.
A decent man and someone who is passionate.
Laying into him and accusing him of inadequacy and shortcomings as a coach and all sorts for me is preposterous.

Smith can prove himself - it's a bad run of form granted but losing faith is really unfair

No 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 09:26:21 PM
Keep it civil, please.

thanks mr/mrs mod.

It's a polite request aimed at all posting. If you don't like it, try elsewhere.

He/she was thanking you as they are the one that was told to fuck off.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 28, 2019, 09:26:46 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and..

Yes but did you notice there tongues sticking out the side of there mouths, dribbling saliva and making strange moaning noises, its called severe trauma and shock.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 09:27:45 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and..

Yes but did you notice there tongues sticking out the side of there mouths, dribbling saliva and making strange moaning noises, its called severe trauma and shock.

Sounds like my cum face.



Enjoy that image folks, Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 28, 2019, 09:28:31 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and..

Yes but did you notice there tongues sticking out the side of there mouths, dribbling saliva and making strange moaning noises, its called severe trauma and shock.

Sounds like my cum face.



Enjoy that image folks, Merry Christmas.
Wow
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on December 28, 2019, 09:30:16 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and..

Yes but did you notice there tongues sticking out the side of there mouths, dribbling saliva and making strange moaning noises, its called severe trauma and shock.

Sounds like my cum face.



Enjoy that image folks, Merry Christmas.
Do you mind? I'm eating!  :)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 09:31:25 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and.. 



Yes I agree Marlon. I canít get to games living too far away so I always follow the match thread on here, but today I turned it off as I just couldnít stand the negativity. Sure Dean is having a bad time and you can see he is now starting to feel the pressure, but I will back him even if we go down. He had no choice but  to pull a brand new team together who didn't know each other nor did they have PL experience, and for the first quarter of the season got away with it. I have questioned his tactics sometimes but the real issue is that the reality of the cards he was dealt came to the fore when confidence took a knock and now they are running scared and have lost the bravery they showed in knocking the ball about. This is now a huge test for Dean but if turns it around then he will be a better manager for it.

I donít think I will follow another match thread again whilst Dean is in charge which is a shame really
I absolutely agree, though I will still follow the match threads, hopefully those turning on Smith will regret their haste to wanít him gone.
I admire your loyalty guys and I too would love to see Smith succeed but the stakes are massive here - we can't afford to spend anymore time in the Championship ...we are already light years behind the big hitters - it also appears we are well behind clubs like Bournemouth and Brighton . It is gonna be interesting  to see how the current owners play this out.....Will they be prepared to take the hit of relegation, rake in the parachute money and hope Smith gets " lucky" again
High stakes and not a time to be Indecisive - having said that maybe the contract extension was the vote of confidence and Smith stays come what may
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 09:32:09 PM
Keep it civil, please.

thanks mr/mrs mod.

It's a polite request aimed at all posting. If you don't like it, try elsewhere.

He/she was thanking you as they are the one that was told to fuck off.

thank you for explaining it to the mod. Seemed a very strange thing to say by way of reply. I do like it "Legion".
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 28, 2019, 09:32:38 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and..

Yes but did you notice there tongues sticking out the side of there mouths, dribbling saliva and making strange moaning noises, its called severe trauma and shock.

Sounds like my cum face.



Enjoy that image folks, Merry Christmas.

Your just way to sexy for this place matey, Happy New Year and may 2020 bring many of those faces for you.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 09:33:21 PM
Keep it civil, please.

thanks mr/mrs mod.

It's a polite request aimed at all posting. If you don't like it, try elsewhere.

He/she was thanking you as they are the one that was told to fuck off.

thank you for explaining it to the mod. Seemed a very strange thing to say by way of reply. I do like it "Legion".

Just take the assist and move on. Jesus.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 09:34:39 PM
So if we do fire Smith we would enter the market for a new manager at the same time as West Ham. If you were a candidate for both jobs who would you realistically choose?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2019, 09:35:30 PM
So if we do fire Smith we would enter the market for a new manager at the same time as West Ham. If you were a candidate for both jobs who would you realistically choose?

In ownership terms? Surely us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2019, 09:37:12 PM
So if we do fire Smith we would enter the market for a new manager at the same time as West Ham. If you were a candidate for both jobs who would you realistically choose?

Well, the bookies reckon West Ham will get Moyes back so nothing to worry about there.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 09:37:38 PM
So if we do fire Smith we would enter the market for a new manager at the same time as West Ham. If you were a candidate for both jobs who would you realistically choose?

In ownership terms? Surely us.
Location, he has a house in London.
Sadly Birmingham does not have the same draw.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 28, 2019, 09:38:18 PM
So if we do fire Smith we would enter the market for a new manager at the same time as West Ham. If you were a candidate for both jobs who would you realistically choose?

If i was confident in my abilities, if i felt that I could take a club and mould that club into something of a monster from a sleeping giant, a club with shed loads of cash, the challenge.....Aston Villa, all day long.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AVH87 on December 28, 2019, 09:39:36 PM
The owners may have lots of cash but FFP means January will be tight.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on December 28, 2019, 09:39:48 PM
Earlier in the season, Iíd say a close thing. But weíre starting to look dysfunctional, with questions over quality of the squad, and thatís very off putting for any potential targets.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 09:41:31 PM
As I said before, depends on the plan. If we are planning to spend nothing over the next couple of windows and they are planning to spend a load then it makes a difference. They have the advantage of London, but also the drag factor of those in charge.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 28, 2019, 09:42:29 PM
We should really stick with Dean if there were any signs that he could get us out of this mess but the last three games against the worst teams in the league have meant we will abandon the long term plan and go to the Nigel Pearson/Sam Allardayce
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: JJ-AV on December 28, 2019, 09:43:02 PM
if it's true the players had a meeting without him it spells trouble.

What's this about?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 09:44:18 PM
Ah. I am ever so sorry. Totally misread it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 09:44:30 PM
You can change manager and improve while sticking to a long term plan without resorting to Pulis/Bruce/Allardyce. It's not like it's a binary choice between DS and one of those.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 28, 2019, 09:44:33 PM
To me,Burnley really is the last throw. More of the same and he's toast.Another Norwich away type performance though.........?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 09:45:43 PM
Ah. I am ever so sorry. Totally misread it.

Thanks v much, accepted and move forwards.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: JJ-AV on December 28, 2019, 09:46:03 PM
Not just yet for me but another trouncing at Burnley and it'd be hard to disagree. Not sure who's on the market, the realistic names don't inspire me. Rafa seems unlikely due to history with Purslow. Roberto Martinez might be a good shout.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 09:48:46 PM
Not just yet for me but another trouncing at Burnley and it'd be hard to disagree. Not sure who's on the market, the realistic names don't inspire me. Rafa seems unlikely due to history with Purslow. Roberto Martinez might be a good shout.

Another trouncing at Burnley and it would probably be too late to bother.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 09:52:15 PM
Ah. I am ever so sorry. Totally misread it.
Blimey Legion .... it's not even 10pm yet ...what you on ??
:) Cheers VCTM
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 28, 2019, 09:53:27 PM
We should really stick with Dean if there were any signs that he could get us out of this mess but the last three games against the worst teams in the league have meant we will abandon the long term plan and go to the Nigel Pearson/Sam Allardayce

Abandoning any long term plan for someone like Allardyce would be a terrible idea. We would very likely just be sacking that person in less than 12 months and be starting from scratch again.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 28, 2019, 09:54:36 PM
They arenít going to get rid of DS and appoint someone exactly like him, if so letís keep him and roll the dice.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AVH87 on December 28, 2019, 09:54:59 PM
Just looking at names on the next West Ham manager list to get an idea of possible managers:

Leonardo Jardim (just left Monaco)
Simone Inzaghi (won 2 cups and finished 5th twice with Lazio)
Unai Emery (did a good job pre Arsenal)
Marco Silva (good at Hull)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: luke95 on December 28, 2019, 09:55:16 PM
Compare Man Utd Fans who refuse to turn on Ole no matter how shit they are, with our fickle fans who turn on one of their own at the first sign of trouble...

Weíre living up to our fickle reputation here.
There are fans of every club who are fickle, we have no more or less than others.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 09:56:21 PM
i guess they act by tomorrow night or he gets Burnley game, time zones come into play as the owners have 8 hour time zone to bridge.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 28, 2019, 09:57:31 PM
Iím a big fan of DS but itís not really the Ďfirst sign of troubleí is it?

Weíve won, what, 4 games all season?

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 28, 2019, 09:59:04 PM
Fickleness has nothing to do with it.  I don't think he has what it takes at this level.  It's a pity but there you go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on December 28, 2019, 10:02:43 PM
I think heís had a lot of time from fans, considering the stakes. Itís taken a set of absolutely abject performances and the worst form in the league to get a smith out thread going.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 10:03:48 PM
I think heís had a lot of time from fans, considering the stakes. Itís taken a set of absolutely abject performances and the worst form in the league to get a smith out thread going.

It's the 3rd or 4th time there's been one of these threads.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: David_Nab on December 28, 2019, 10:05:22 PM
Iím a big fan of DS but itís not really the Ďfirst sign of troubleí is it?

Weíve won, what, 4 games all season?



His record last season against teams above us in the league was not great either ..

I want to give him time  he is one of us after all but dear god we are so bad at the moment.We might not literally be bottom but I think we are the worst team in the league currently.It's not just results their is no style of play its back to Bruce ball give it to Jack FFS

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on December 28, 2019, 10:06:50 PM
Is it?! Missed those.

My point remains though, I think smith had more rope than normal because heís one of us, got us here, and appears to be a very decent chap.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on December 28, 2019, 10:08:49 PM
Canít remember if I said it earlier in this thread or another but what is very telling for me is that Brentford have kicked on after losing Smith and OíKelly. Perennial mid table finishes under DS and chance of closing gap on top 2 tomorrow.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on December 28, 2019, 10:09:04 PM
Itís hardly a massive deviation, someone to firefight for 6 months to keep us in the division then back to the long term plan of world domination!

Edit. Was supposed to reply to a comment but didnít quite work on my phone!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 10:09:28 PM
I think one was merged into this thread and the other we locked. The locked one is here http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=59417
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 28, 2019, 10:14:18 PM
I read something on these pages that struck true recently, that DS saw all the problems we did and spoke eloquently of all the latest coaching buzzwords and solutions..

Unfortunately what we see on the field doesnít give me hope that he can see a process for dealing with and negating the problems he sees.

I think the job has come a few years too early for him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 10:17:42 PM
I think he lacks a bit of confidence at this level.

Taking an age to make subs we can get away with at championship level due to the pinball nature of many of the games but before you know it here we're a goal down like when we hesitated over taking Mings off v Leicester or a very promising 2-1 at Arsenal becomes 3-2 loss within five minutes due to us not putting on another midfielder when Guendozi was running riot in that second half.

Frustrating as I really thought he'd be proactive but he's been painfully reactive and the troube is it's the same now as it was in September when we lost points because of it.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on December 28, 2019, 10:18:20 PM
Oh crikey pre promotion! Well that was extreme, and rightly smacked down. Fair enough, I stand corrected.

Personally, I think any time before we got promoted was too early to know either way, then following promotion he definitely deserved a crack, but I hoped weíd be ruthless it it didnít work out. What I didnít expect was such a dive in performance levels at such a weird time of year when youíd think players would be bedding in and heíd be learning the ropes at this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 28, 2019, 10:19:13 PM
I think heís had a lot of time from fans, considering the stakes. Itís taken a set of absolutely abject performances and the worst form in the league to get a smith out thread going.

Canít say Iíve checked their message boards for how many ĎHowe outí threads they have going, but Bournemouth are currently on a run of 1 win in 9 games (or 2 in 14 if you prefer). Same applies to when Southampton won 1 game in 10 earlier in the season, including at 9-0 loss.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 10:20:21 PM
Canít remember if I said it earlier in this thread or another but what is very telling for me is that Brentford have kicked on after losing Smith and OíKelly. Perennial mid table finishes under DS and chance of closing gap on top 2 tomorrow.

Brentford are ridiculously well run. Look at all the players they sell and they replace them with ease. We sell Benteke and fall apart for three years (also same when we sold Milner and Young).

Head coach is an important but not the essential part of the operation down there. DS did fine but Mark Warburton did well there and he's struggling to replicate that success in the other jobs he's had since at Rangers and Forest.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: David_Nab on December 28, 2019, 10:24:51 PM
I keep seeing , well we should stick with Smith even if we go down as he will bring us back up..I just don't see it .To start with teams going down are not bouncing back , FFP is killing teams going down as it almost did to us.Then there is momentum,going down losing as we saw when we went down last time carries on into the next season and finally we go down its bye Jack , By McGinn, Bye Mings , Bye Heaton so its ANOTHER rebuild..

No we can't just sit by and drop down a league with a wimper again.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ozzjim on December 28, 2019, 10:26:37 PM
Imagine what it will be like when Jack goes.

I think it's the saddest departure I can think of, but unless the board have decided that actually keeping Smith and let him bring us back up when we drop is the best plan, he has to go.

His team selections are odd, his stubbornness to not go 3 at the back despite us lacking Mings and conceding stupid amounts of chances every match is killing us, his shifting Jack out wide again after he played centrally against Norwich, his frankly fucking inexplicable picking of Wesley despite Kodjia actually knowing how to score fucking goals, his o er playing of McGinn etc. We are in big trouble.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Fred Crump on December 28, 2019, 10:26:43 PM
Darkest before the dawn. Stick with Deano and weíll pull through. UTV !!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on December 28, 2019, 10:28:04 PM
I keep seeing , well we should stick with Smith even if we go down as he will bring us back up..I just don't see it .To start with teams going down are not bouncing back , FFP is killing teams going down as it almost did to us.Then there is momentum,going down losing as we saw when we went down last time carries on into the next season and finally we go down its bye Jack , By McGinn, Bye Mings , Bye Heaton so its ANOTHER rebuild..

No we can't just sit by and drop down a league with a wimper again.


Sort of agree but thereís £100m worth of players there plus parachute money. FWIW think Heaton would probably stay. Players come and go and plenty of sides rebuild and go again. West Brom have made some shrewd signings and currently cruising back to the Premier League.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 10:28:29 PM
So if we do fire Smith we would enter the market for a new manager at the same time as West Ham. If you were a candidate for both jobs who would you realistically choose?

Well, the bookies reckon West Ham will get Moyes back so nothing to worry about there.

Just stunning if they go for him again
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Des Little on December 28, 2019, 10:29:03 PM
Darkest before the dawn. Stick with Deano and weíll pull through. UTV !!


I like your thinking. Hereís hoping!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2019, 10:30:41 PM
So if we do fire Smith we would enter the market for a new manager at the same time as West Ham. If you were a candidate for both jobs who would you realistically choose?

Well, the bookies reckon West Ham will get Moyes back so nothing to worry about there.

Just stunning if they go for him again

It would be good on two fronts. One, we no longer have to worry about West Ham going for our sexy targets. Two, we won't be appointing Moyes.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: OzVilla on December 28, 2019, 10:30:47 PM
DS is tactically inept at this level. He has been all season. His game management is appalling, cost us points on several occasions this season most notably Arsenal, today he moves Jack out wide to accomodate Landsbury ffs. He is stuck to a rigid system that hasnít been working now for months not weeks and we are out played by pretty much everyone we play now stats wise.

Realistically we needed 6 points from these 3 games, 7/9 would been brilliant. Weíve ended up with a lucky 3 and been outplayed by all. Something needs to change before itís too late and Iím afraid itíll probably need to be the management team. Players need to take a long look at themselves too by the way.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pav on December 28, 2019, 10:30:59 PM
Darkest before the dawn. Stick with Deano and weíll pull through. UTV !!


I like your thinking. Hereís hoping!
Really hoping , gone too far now Iím afraid
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 28, 2019, 10:31:30 PM
Canít remember if I said it earlier in this thread or another but what is very telling for me is that Brentford have kicked on after losing Smith and OíKelly. Perennial mid table finishes under DS and chance of closing gap on top 2 tomorrow.

In fairness, Brentford were going quite well in sixth and two points fewer away from the top two than they currently are when he left.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on December 28, 2019, 10:32:01 PM
As it stands, we are going down with a whimper.  The players do not look motivated, don't look like they are trying, too many mistakes being made all over the pitch and they all look like they don't like each other.  Heresy to say it but Jack showed real indiscipline by getting booked in the 95th minute as I now think he did it so he can celebrate the New Year!  Smith is making too many excuses, we are getting cut adrift with a worsening goal difference.  Yet we look like we will throw more money at Smith in January and have to hope for an uplift.  I just hope that the players identified have already agreed to come in as they may not want to come based on the last few weeks.  We are not showing signs of any improvements, the goals are drying up, the clean sheets are few and far between. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 10:32:36 PM
I keep seeing , well we should stick with Smith even if we go down as he will bring us back up..I just don't see it .To start with teams going down are not bouncing back , FFP is killing teams going down as it almost did to us.Then there is momentum,going down losing as we saw when we went down last time carries on into the next season and finally we go down its bye Jack , By McGinn, Bye Mings , Bye Heaton so its ANOTHER rebuild..

No we can't just sit by and drop down a league with a wimper again.


Sort of agree but thereís £100m worth of players there plus parachute money. FWIW think Heaton would probably stay. Players come and go and plenty of sides rebuild and go again. West Brom have made some shrewd signings and currently cruising back to the Premier League.
We have seen how far the Prem has moved on in 3 years, we go again and we could end up being the perennial Yo Yo club or worse.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ROBBO on December 28, 2019, 11:12:05 PM
The poll speaks volumes.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2019, 11:16:59 PM
We now have three options at what is a crucial time to make a decision.

1. Decide to stick with Smith, invest in him in January.
2. Replace him now, support the new man through to the end of the season and beyond.
3. Just give up like we did in 2015 and accept our fate.

Given what we have seen from the new owners, 3. doesn't look like a realistic option.

There has to be a huge question mark around whether DS can turn things around even if supported in the window. I'd be more inclined to think that possible if we were saying he was currently getting the best out of the squad he has, but - whilst acknowledging squad weaknesses - he clearly isn't.

Which leaves option 2.

West Ham have just sacked their manager. Everton sacked theirs. Why should we be any different in our acceptance of piss poor standards?

What we have seen in recent weeks is not just unsatisfactory, it is the sort of unbothered shite we saw in 2015-16. To find ourselves in the position of selling out week after week and in a real position to be able to push on only to succumb to the same acceptance of rubbish which has dragged us back in the last ten years doesn't even bear thinking about.

Relegation again should be just unthinkably horrible a prospect. We have to act now and make a change, because the way things have been of late, this is only going to end in tears.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 11:18:44 PM
Well said.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on December 28, 2019, 11:20:36 PM
I think he almost certainly gets the game on Wednesday and the owners will almost certainly be getting someone competent to do some due diligence on a replacement in the intervening time in the event the Burnley game goes the way we expect it will. (Piss poor team selection followed by abject surrender to Chris Wood and Jay Rodriguez)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brontebilly on December 28, 2019, 11:21:08 PM
It's over for Smith Im afraid and I hope the change is made tomorrow. No point drawing it out any longer, we are certainties for the drop if he stays. Still time to turn it around with 3/4 signings capable of starting in a top division team.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 11:25:01 PM
I think he almost certainly gets the game on Wednesday and the owners will almost certainly be getting someone competent to do some due diligence on a replacement in the intervening time in the event the Burnley game goes the way we expect it will. (Piss poor team selection followed by abject surrender to Chris Wood and Jay Rodriguez)

We need to act before the Burnley game.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 11:25:15 PM
Paulie
I think another option is appoint Terry as an interim replacement and bringing in which ever targets they have lined up where possible.
That is the continuity option
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on December 28, 2019, 11:26:37 PM
Itís such a shame that people are turning on Smith, I appreciate that there is no room for sentiment in Football, but can you remember where we were a year ago? Dean Smith, Jack, SJM, Mings, even AEG have been responsible for bringing Villa fans and the team together after years of utter dross, disinterest and in many cases complete vitriol aimed at the team. We need to stick together, not change the manager. It didnít work in 2015, it wonít work now. We are not Watford, Everton or Chelsea, who change the manager at the first sign of trouble. Every single one of us was proud that we had a Villa fan as manager and captain a few weeks ago. Letís give them a chance. UTV!

This, well done. Youíll be in the minority other than me and possibly the owners.

Proper shit today but predictable given the last few weeks. But still shit. Smith has to stop switching grealish to the left.  But beanitez, potch, whoever else, grow up.

Smith is culpable for playing style and not altering it but I doubt he bought half these players.

 Here we go. Unpopular opinion of the century, Iíd stick with him if we go down. And all these rumours about players etc oh for fucks sake
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 11:27:58 PM
Paulie
I think another option is appoint Terry as an interim replacement and bringing in which ever targets they have lined up where possible.
That is the continuity option

No, I don't think we should do that. We pissed about with Kevin Mac for two games in 2015-16. The entire coaching staff is too inexperienced at this level and have been found out. We have to cease being a 'project' taking a punt. That has got us nowhere since MON.

Go get Rafa.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2019, 11:28:32 PM
Paulie
I think another option is appoint Terry as an interim replacement and bringing in which ever targets they have lined up where possible.
That is the continuity option

I think that'd be all of the bad things of the current set up and none of the good things about changing the guard.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Des Little on December 28, 2019, 11:29:43 PM
The Terry shout is a brave one. Why would this lot play for him if they arenít playing for Smith? Genuine question, Iím not saying they wouldnít but it would be a turn up for the book if they did.

I still think Smith will get Wednesdayís game, and if he does, they pull their collective fingers out.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 28, 2019, 11:29:55 PM
Hmmmm, you really could be me back on board as I really want to believe in this. Last few games of utter surrender have made it hard.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 11:31:26 PM
Paulie
I think another option is appoint Terry as an interim replacement and bringing in which ever targets they have lined up where possible.
That is the continuity option

I think that'd be all of the bad things of the current set up and none of the good things about changing the guard.
I am not advocating this.
But if they can not nail down a decent replacement this is the option they maybe left with.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 28, 2019, 11:33:37 PM
I think the views on here aren't necessarily representative of the overall view.

West Ham spent more on 4 players than we did on all the signings we made, that's why they have sacked Pellegrini.

The issue is just how poorly we've played lately, earlier in the season we played well without the results, now we have neither.

I guess one of the questions to ask is whether the players are up to it and whose responsibility recruitment is. Is it Smith or Pitarch? Would a new manager get much more out of the squad we have?

West Ham going for Moyes is the sort of desperate appointment that we mustn't make.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 11:35:24 PM
The Terry shout is a brave one. Why would this lot play for him if they arenít playing for Smith? Genuine question, Iím not saying they wouldnít but it would be a turn up for the book if they did.


Terry is closer to the players and if the rumblings are to be believed then player power is a factor.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Small Rodent on December 29, 2019, 12:07:54 AM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and.. 



Yes I agree Marlon. I canít get to games living too far away so I always follow the match thread on here, but today I turned it off as I just couldnít stand the negativity. Sure Dean is having a bad time and you can see he is now starting to feel the pressure, but I will back him even if we go down. He had no choice but  to pull a brand new team together who didn't know each other nor did they have PL experience, and for the first quarter of the season got away with it. I have questioned his tactics sometimes but the real issue is that the reality of the cards he was dealt came to the fore when confidence took a knock and now they are running scared and have lost the bravery they showed in knocking the ball about. This is now a huge test for Dean but if turns it around then he will be a better manager for it.

I donít think I will follow another match thread again whilst Dean is in charge which is a shame really
I absolutely agree, though I will still follow the match threads, hopefully those turning on Smith will regret their haste to wanít him gone.

Well thatís three of you who are better fans than the rest of us. Well done.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 29, 2019, 12:08:33 AM
Then Terry should be stamping it out. He can go if and when Smith goes.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: aj2k77 on December 29, 2019, 12:10:25 AM
Unfortunately I can only see us going down if we continue with him.

Performances are on the wane.
Results have hit rock bottom.
Effort and work ethic has dropped off the cliff.

There isn't a single positive I can take at the moment that gives me any reason to think we should keep him and that we are turning or about to turn the corner.

Our last three games have been against the bottom 3, the 3 worst sides in the division. All 3 of them comprehensively outplayed us, 2 at home, 1 against 10 men,  and we conceded 6 goals in the process.

What are the factors in thinking we would be better off keeping him? Not including the tired old ''who would come?'' that has never stopped anyone with any ambition in the entire world from making the improvement if they have the desire and resources.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:24:45 AM
Then Terry should be stamping it out. He can go if and when Smith goes.
Thats not how it works though.


Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: itbrvilla on December 29, 2019, 12:28:54 AM
He's only got himself to blame. He's done nothing to show that he's proactive, or reactive in matches. He has one plan (which has been ineffective). WTF is th stat someone on here said we haven't scored a header in the league this season but are reliant on wingers?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 29, 2019, 12:30:26 AM
Why? If there is a poisonous atmosphere at the club then Terry is part of that. In any case, it seems an unnecessary gamble.

Nobody has suggested we appoint previous assistants as managers as long as I have been supporting us. I never remember a clamber to appoint Eric Black, Roy Aitken, Jim Barron or any of the others.

The only difference I can think of with Terry is that he was a great player. We have seen time and again that that's no guarantee of managerial success.

Get a proven manager in. Aston Villa should not be anyone's testing ground.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2019, 12:32:14 AM

Get a proven manager in. Aston Villa should not be anyone's testing ground.

Tony Barton says hello  ;)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2019, 12:37:15 AM
I should point out that i'm not in any way advocating Appleyard being appointed manager!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 29, 2019, 12:37:22 AM

Get a proven manager in. Aston Villa should not be anyone's testing ground.

Tony Barton says hello  ;)

I did say in my time watching Villa... and I'm not as old as you, remember? 😉

And there was less panic, then. We were never going to go down, so if it didn't work we could always have just taken stock and gone for a big name in the summer.

We cannot gamble like that this time, because if it doesn't work we will be down and back to the managerial bargain bin that produced Di Matteo and Bruce.

Oh, and Tony Barton wasn't a bloody racist.

Lights fuse, runs away...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Keeno on December 29, 2019, 12:43:29 AM
If we replace the manager now, and whoever it is keeps us up through the new manager bounce - but this time next year 'turns out to be shit' and has us in a similar predicament - does everyone think we should then sack, appoint, rinse and repeat? Ad finitum?

I'm curious as to what enjoyment people think they would get out of becoming a new Watford, as a fan. I don't think anyone here would deny that Smith has arguably given us the most joyous moment as fans in this dumpster fire of a decade.

Is becoming a West Ham, a Watford, or even an Everton with their revolving door of managers, actually where we would prefer to be? Eeking out a living somewhere in the lower end of the Premier League with no long term vision for how we could break that cycle? I don't know.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:49:30 AM
I keep coming back to the centre forward situation and for me it all stems from this. Its been obvious for most of the season that Wes is not up to it. The only excuse is that from working with the players in training Smith believes Wes is the best option. Lets be honest his other options are few. But he could have tried Davis pre-injury, he could have tried Kodija he could have tried AEG even if it meant changing the system. But no, it was Wes up front despite the overwhelming evidence that it was not fucking working.
I really am at a loss to understand this, because if he had tried something different and it still did not work then I think he would be getting more support. The only other reason i can come up with, is that there is a political power play going on behind the scenes and that Smith is demonstrating through team selection his antipathy towards the existing recruitment strategy.
Otherwise its inexplicable.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on December 29, 2019, 12:54:04 AM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and.. 



Yes I agree Marlon. I canít get to games living too far away so I always follow the match thread on here, but today I turned it off as I just couldnít stand the negativity. Sure Dean is having a bad time and you can see he is now starting to feel the pressure, but I will back him even if we go down. He had no choice but  to pull a brand new team together who didn't know each other nor did they have PL experience, and for the first quarter of the season got away with it. I have questioned his tactics sometimes but the real issue is that the reality of the cards he was dealt came to the fore when confidence took a knock and now they are running scared and have lost the bravery they showed in knocking the ball about. This is now a huge test for Dean but if turns it around then he will be a better manager for it.

I donít think I will follow another match thread again whilst Dean is in charge which is a shame really
I absolutely agree, though I will still follow the match threads, hopefully those turning on Smith will regret their haste to wanít him gone.

Well thatís three of you who are better fans than the rest of us. Well done.
I agree with most of their points, so can I claim the 'better fan' tag then? Even though none of them have said or claimed any such thing.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:57:26 AM
Why? If there is a poisonous atmosphere at the club then Terry is part of that. In any case, it seems an unnecessary gamble.

Nobody has suggested we appoint previous assistants as managers as long as I have been supporting us. I never remember a clamber to appoint Eric Black, Roy Aitken, Jim Barron or any of the others.

The only difference I can think of with Terry is that he was a great player. We have seen time and again that that's no guarantee of managerial success.

Get a proven manager in. Aston Villa should not be anyone's testing ground.
I am not advocating Terry, just pointing out that appointing someone close to the players is not exactly the most crazy idea. It might work out and it does not involve huge investment,
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: David_Nab on December 29, 2019, 01:06:33 AM
Why? If there is a poisonous atmosphere at the club then Terry is part of that. In any case, it seems an unnecessary gamble.

Nobody has suggested we appoint previous assistants as managers as long as I have been supporting us. I never remember a clamber to appoint Eric Black, Roy Aitken, Jim Barron or any of the others.

The only difference I can think of with Terry is that he was a great player. We have seen time and again that that's no guarantee of managerial success.

Get a proven manager in. Aston Villa should not be anyone's testing ground.
I am not advocating Terry, just pointing out that appointing someone close to the players is not exactly the most crazy idea. It might work out and it does not involve huge investment,

Worked ok with Everton and Ferguson , he held the fort for 3 games got some points on board / improved performances. Ancelotti comes in and able to carry that momentum on 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: adrenachrome on December 29, 2019, 01:16:10 AM
I am fairly sure DS has little part in player recruitment, and that this is one of the reasons he was appointed. The Brentford model was attractive to the owners, who want continuity between managers.
Unfortunately, the all out attack using 4-3-3 with 2 wingers is never going to work in today's PL. The Leicester debacle at VP shook the team and the manager, and we played defensively for the first time under DS at Sheffield United. This shook the players' confidence in the manager's methods.
I think the owners will stick with the manager, and may even be prepared to go down. They are long term planners, and have backed their strategy with big bucks. We will find out soon enough. If the manager doesn't have much say in player recruitment, then the transfer window will be less important than otherwise thought.



Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 29, 2019, 01:17:23 AM
Well, yes. I can cope with an assistant taking charge for three games. I've already said I don't expect anyone in before Man City. But there is no more sense in giving Terry the full-time gig than there would have been if we had decided on Calderwood as Bruce's replacement.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 01:22:49 AM
I keep coming back to the centre forward situation and for me it all stems from this. Its been obvious for most of the season that Wes is not up to it. The only excuse is that from working with the players in training Smith believes Wes is the best option. Lets be honest his other options are few. But he could have tried Davis pre-injury, he could have tried Kodija he could have tried AEG even if it meant changing the system. But no, it was Wes up front despite the overwhelming evidence that it was not fucking working.
I really am at a loss to understand this, because if he had tried something different and it still did not work then I think he would be getting more support. The only other reason i can come up with, is that there is a political power play going on behind the scenes and that Smith is demonstrating through team selection his antipathy towards the existing recruitment strategy.
Otherwise its inexplicable.
Or Smith is an Ostrich
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 01:29:13 AM
I am fairly sure DS has little part in player recruitment, and that this is one of the reasons he was appointed. The Brentford model was attractive to the owners, who want continuity between managers.
Unfortunately, the all out attack using 4-3-3 with 2 wingers is never going to work in today's PL. The Leicester debacle at VP shook the team and the manager, and we played defensively for the first time under DS at Sheffield United. This shook the players' confidence in the manager's methods.
I think the owners will stick with the manager, and may even be prepared to go down. They are long term planners, and have backed their strategy with big bucks. We will find out soon enough. If the manager doesn't have much say in player recruitment, then the transfer window will be less important than otherwise thought.
Interesting perspective. I can not believe that the owners are prepared to go down. The rebuild implications are massively more risky than holding our PL place,
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villadelph on December 29, 2019, 01:47:04 AM
He's only got himself to blame. He's done nothing to show that he's proactive, or reactive in matches. He has one plan (which has been ineffective). WTF is th stat someone on here said we haven't scored a header in the league this season but are reliant on wingers?

This is correct. We bought multiple wingers and a 6'5" Brazilian donkey and have not mustered a single headed goal this campaign.

With all due respect to Dean.. the man, literally, does not know how to substitute. Who, when or why.

We are by far the worst team coming out of half time. We are truly pathetic in that regard, and I think one of a manager's biggest responsibilities on match day is the second half strategy, adjustments and a good team talk. And like I said earlier, if he actually read them the riot act at halftime, like he says he did today, and the team came out and performed like they did for the last 45 minutes.. well, then he can go.

He will only play one formation and sacrifice isolating our best player out on the left side, so that LANSBURY AND JOTA can try to pull the strings in a PREMIER LEAGUE MIDFIELD. It's asinine, it's arrogant and its painful.

Dean has nothing but himself to blame.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Hockley Lion on December 29, 2019, 01:58:42 AM
This is how I feel. He should be offered an honourable way out before the cabbage throwers start lining up. He doesn't deserve that. But if he won't go he'll need to be pushed.

It won't be pretty but we'll loose Jack and the best of the rest if we go down. I genuinely believe these players ( + some with PL experience in the window ) can keep us up with better more experienced management.

It's over to the owners now!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: tomd2103 on December 29, 2019, 02:19:57 AM
I am fairly sure DS has little part in player recruitment, and that this is one of the reasons he was appointed. The Brentford model was attractive to the owners, who want continuity between managers.
Unfortunately, the all out attack using 4-3-3 with 2 wingers is never going to work in today's PL. The Leicester debacle at VP shook the team and the manager, and we played defensively for the first time under DS at Sheffield United. This shook the players' confidence in the manager's methods.
I think the owners will stick with the manager, and may even be prepared to go down. They are long term planners, and have backed their strategy with big bucks. We will find out soon enough. If the manager doesn't have much say in player recruitment, then the transfer window will be less important than otherwise thought.

That was certainly mentioned at the start of the season if I recall correctly, but at this point, relegation seems a horrible prospect.  We would lose the few quality players we currently have and as we have seen so far, the rest don't seem up for the kind of challenge the Championship would present.  The logic mentioned above would be somewhat OK if we came straight back up, but it took us three seasons last time.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: adrenachrome on December 29, 2019, 02:34:37 AM
I am fairly sure DS has little part in player recruitment, and that this is one of the reasons he was appointed. The Brentford model was attractive to the owners, who want continuity between managers.
Unfortunately, the all out attack using 4-3-3 with 2 wingers is never going to work in today's PL. The Leicester debacle at VP shook the team and the manager, and we played defensively for the first time under DS at Sheffield United. This shook the players' confidence in the manager's methods.
I think the owners will stick with the manager, and may even be prepared to go down. They are long term planners, and have backed their strategy with big bucks. We will find out soon enough. If the manager doesn't have much say in player recruitment, then the transfer window will be less important than otherwise thought.
Interesting perspective. I can not believe that the owners are prepared to go down. The rebuild implications are massively more risky than holding our PL place,

It is left-field, I agree. If they trust those they have appointed, they will not push the panic button yet. We will soon see.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: tony scott on December 29, 2019, 03:10:25 AM
I have to admit Iím sitting on the fence because, having watched the last few games Deans  made most of the changes that could have been expected replaced Engels and the ineffective wingers Trez and Aeg as well  Marvelous.   I did expect him to rotate Wes over this period but he hasnít.  I donít know what the board will do if our form continues this way.  Are we already consigned to the drop? Investment in new players extremely risky,unless we only invest what we bring ,in from the inevitable sales of Kodjia and our 4th choice goalkeeper. Finally are we not playing Kodjia because he already has one foot out of the door.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 29, 2019, 04:37:44 AM
I haven't read the whole thread but he sounded like a man in denial in the WM interview. I love him but I think, as Brian Green said, it's probably best for all parties to move on now.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Simon Page on December 29, 2019, 04:49:18 AM
When did we become a sack the manager club? I much preferred it when we got a mob together, handed out torches and headed for t'committee room, but there's a depressing familiarity about seeing an "OUT" thread nowadays. Hopefully Risso will take his sack the chiefs mantra over to the Politics thread at some point. I get the itchiness when the same mistakes are happening, but we used to wait for a season or more of that before starting polls. For some reason we're doing it after a couple of months. We were all very happy at the end of October.

No idea if Smith is the right man, but I reckon 12 (poss 13 as I don't know about Lansbury) of our 18 at Watford had never kicked a ball in the Premier League until this season. Four more have, but for Burnley, Sunderland, Hull, Southampton, Fulham and the Olbyiun. That leaves Grealish who got to play in the top flight for some of the worst Villa sides I've witnessed. Only Sheffield United (who are this season's Bolton, Wigan, Stripeys, Swansea, etc) and Norwich (who are worse than us) are in the same boat.

Of course Smith has made mistakes, but he's a rookie at this level working with rookies to prepare a team of rookies to satisfy a board of rookies. I also don't know how much input he had into the lack of signings with decent Premier League experience, but I'd guess quite a bit. Regardless of that and who the manager is, we need two or three (or insert figure here) signings in the window who know how to play in this league. It's not September any more and the rest of the League can call on experience to start digging out results. We need to make January signings who know how to shut up shop when necessary, make the advantage count against ten, mix it up on the field, know when to stick it in row Z but, most importantly, know how to do it in the Premier League. The only question the owners have to ask is are they happy to do that with Smith or do they have a near-guaranteed Red Adair waiting in the wings. Either will need experience signings.

We're one of half a dozen teams who were always likely to be fighting the drop and that's exactly what's happened from game one. But as well having two below us, Burnley, Brighton, Southampton and West Ham are catchable in a week. They don't have quality over us, but do have a lot more recent Premier League experience on the pitch. It's unlikely a new manager can right that quicker than Smith if they don't get the gift of knowledgeable new players in the window.

Regardless, I hope the owners and their advisers don't read H&V.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 29, 2019, 05:00:51 AM
When did we become a sack the manager club? I much preferred it when we got a mob together, handed out torches and headed for t'committee room, but there's a depressing familiarity about seeing an "OUT" thread nowadays. Hopefully Risso will take his sack the chiefs mantra over to the Politics thread at some point. I get the itchiness when the same mistakes are happening, but we used to wait for a season or more of that before starting polls. For some reason we're doing it after a couple of months. We were all very happy at the end of October.

No idea if Smith is the right man, but I reckon 12 (poss 13 as I don't know about Lansbury) of our 18 at Watford had never kicked a ball in the Premier League until this season. Four more have, but for Burnley, Sunderland, Hull, Southampton, Fulham and the Olbyiun. That leaves Grealish who got to play in the top flight for some of the worst Villa sides I've witnessed. Only Sheffield United (who are this season's Bolton, Wigan, Stripeys, Swansea, etc) and Norwich (who are worse than us) are in the same boat.

Of course Smith has made mistakes, but he's a rookie at this level working with rookies to prepare a team of rookies to satisfy a board of rookies. I also don't know how much input he had into the lack of signings with decent Premier League experience, but I'd guess quite a bit. Regardless of that and who the manager is, we need two or three (or insert figure here) signings in the window who know how to play in this league. It's not September any more and the rest of the League can call on experience to start digging out results. We need to make January signings who know how to shut up shop when necessary, make the advantage count against ten, mix it up on the field, know when to stick it in row Z but, most importantly, know how to do it in the Premier League. The only question the owners have to ask is are they happy to do that with Smith or do they have a near-guaranteed Red Adair waiting in the wings. Either will need experience signings.

We're one of half a dozen teams who were always likely to be fighting the drop and that's exactly what's happened from game one. But as well having two below us, Burnley, Brighton, Southampton and West Ham are catchable in a week. They don't have quality over us, but do have a lot more recent Premier League experience on the pitch. It's unlikely a new manager can right that quicker than Smith if they don't get the gift of knowledgeable new players in the window.

Regardless, I hope the owners and their advisers don't read H&V.

These are all good points. SMITH IN! Oh, I don't fucking know. He sounded desperate post-match. If the players have picked up in that then we're probably goosed. I don't know.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ROBBO on December 29, 2019, 05:01:22 AM
I have said that I think he should go but how would we feel if he had no hand in the players we bought or say that Wesley had it in his contract he must play every game for the season, looking for excuses for him but there is something that doesn't quite add up for me.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Simon Page on December 29, 2019, 05:08:26 AM
Wesley is being played because, as opposition fans have noted far more than we have, he does a job that allows our midfield to do what it does. He suits the team plan better than Kodjia or Davis. I feel another Ashley Westwood-style row brewing if I carry on down that route though.


These are all good points. SMITH IN! Oh, I don't fucking know. He sounded desperate post-match. If the players have picked up in that then we're probably goosed. I don't know.

Exactly. No idea if he's struggling like our last two promoted bosses did initially or if he's not the man. I don't think he's the pressing problem though or, to put it another way, I don't think replacing him is the answer on its own by a long shot. Our squad has talent but very little nous. They'll only get that through experience or an injection of experience. We don't have time for the former.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ROBBO on December 29, 2019, 05:10:35 AM
DS is the hot favourite in the next manager to be sacked odds, here we go again.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: geolex on December 29, 2019, 06:38:03 AM
Part of me hopes we bin him asap, not because i'm completely done with him but it would sadden me to see us fully turning on him. Whereas if he went now most would be able to see his time here as a positive with some fantastic memories of that time. For the first time in a long time we became a Villa we pretty much all loved, everyone seemed in it together and it was genuinely fun being Villa again and a lot of that was down to DS.

I was gutted when fans turned on Sir Brian and SGT and hope Dean is gone before that happens to him.

Agreed  100%
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: geolex on December 29, 2019, 06:45:55 AM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and.. 



Yes I agree Marlon. I canít get to games living too far away so I always follow the match thread on here, but today I turned it off as I just couldnít stand the negativity. Sure Dean is having a bad time and you can see he is now starting to feel the pressure, but I will back him even if we go down. He had no choice but  to pull a brand new team together who didn't know each other nor did they have PL experience, and for the first quarter of the season got away with it. I have questioned his tactics sometimes but the real issue is that the reality of the cards he was dealt came to the fore when confidence took a knock and now they are running scared and have lost the bravery they showed in knocking the ball about. This is now a huge test for Dean but if turns it around then he will be a better manager for it.

I donít think I will follow another match thread again whilst Dean is in charge which is a shame really
I absolutely agree, though I will still follow the match threads, hopefully those turning on Smith will regret their haste to wanít him gone.

Im sure every poster on here (me included) would be ecstatic if Dean proved us wrong 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Axl Rose on December 29, 2019, 06:59:37 AM
I don't want him out, but that may purely be down to nostalgia. Of which, we don't have time for. He's certainly made a rod for his own back, and the results have been shit, to put it mildly.

If it was anyone else but Smith with his Villa connection..

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Axl Rose on December 29, 2019, 07:02:14 AM
Part of me hopes we bin him asap, not because i'm completely done with him but it would sadden me to see us fully turning on him. Whereas if he went now most would be able to see his time here as a positive with some fantastic memories of that time. For the first time in a long time we became a Villa we pretty much all loved, everyone seemed in it together and it was genuinely fun being Villa again and a lot of that was down to DS.

I was gutted when fans turned on Sir Brian and SGT and hope Dean is gone before that happens to him.

Agreed  100%

Perfect put, PWS.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ROBBO on December 29, 2019, 07:30:29 AM
When both left backs were struggling we had Hause most times not even on the bench, he has proved to be our best defender since Mings got crocked so what was the problem Dean.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on December 29, 2019, 07:53:30 AM
If the porno twins see fit to act in similar circumstances, then so should we. There is no room for sentiment in football especially in the PL. Worth remembering though that they splashed the best part of £100m on two players in the summer, both of which are as shite as Wesley.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 29, 2019, 08:01:16 AM
The way I see it we have a very clear choice of ways to go.  We either act quickly and decisively to give ourselves a fighting chance of survival or fudging the issue and losing everything we fought for in the Championship.   A new manager, new coaches, new players and a fresh approach tactically is not guaranteed to save us but it is by a huge distance more likely to save us than a re churn of failed tactics and resistance to fresh thinking. 

I really liked the Dean Smith of Walsall and Brentford.  Brash, aggressive, pragmatic, positive.  The Dean Smith we now have is no more than a mash up of Paul Lambert and Steve Bruce with a dollop of K Mac bolshyness.   He is a Villa man.  I do not want to see him get the Bolton game or the cabbages.  For what it is worth I think it will be a fudge and the pain for us and the manager will be long, drawn out and heartbreaking.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on December 29, 2019, 08:07:31 AM
I think you are right Brian - we always seem to have too much compassion, which is morally magnificent and right, but always the wrong thing commercially. I'm very glad I don't have to make decisions like this any more.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 29, 2019, 08:20:55 AM
Wish I did not have to.

The real bummer for me is that we have an owner who is one of the richest men in the world but for all the power that wealth should bring, as a club we are no more successful than when we were owned by a Bull Ring fishmonger or a charabanc holiday operator.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Kimaster1976 on December 29, 2019, 08:29:48 AM
The winning run last season to get us into the play-offs, then the beautiful day in May at Wembley which will probably be the day I remember more than most on my death bed.......but lets put it into a bit of perpestive.

Ranieri won Leicester.....LEICESTER the Premier League and into the quarter finals of the Champions League.....sacked 9 months later for under performing and heading back one way which was downwards.

Smith with a vastly superior squad to the rest of the Championship got us promoted. He has since proved he is not ready for this level of football and is being exposed worse and worse as each game ticks by.

Thanks for the memories Dean they will never be forgotten. Get someone in NOW who can salvage it before yet another complete reset of the club is needed following relegation back to the god awful hell hole of the Championship!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on December 29, 2019, 08:39:49 AM
Wish I did not have to.

The real bummer for me is that we have an owner who is one of the richest men in the world but for all the power that wealth should bring, as a club we are no more successful than when we were owned by a Bull Ring fishmonger or a charabanc holiday operator.

That's a tad harsh I think Brian. They have both only been here just under a year and a half and in that time we have been promoted. It's not great at the moment, but in the future under their ownership, it could get better. We'll just have to see how things plan out.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 29, 2019, 08:45:59 AM
Our owners and CEO wonít use sentiment when it comes to business decisions
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on December 29, 2019, 08:59:02 AM
I not reading a lot Iíd sympathy on here for Smith because of his Villa connection at all

I suppose thatís the way it should be
But heís not getting an easy ride because of it quite the opposite in fact

Iíve not called for him to go yet
Iím struggling with the manager I thought we had and the manager we now have
Which one is it

I have to admit after that showing yesterday as bad as anything weíve seen (and thatís saying something)
Iím struggling to see how he can turn it round

itís a toss up between backing him with a couple of decent players or backing another manager to get us going again
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: OzVilla on December 29, 2019, 09:07:59 AM
I thought we had an energetic, innovative, modern coach we so desperately wanted. Instead heís morphed in to a one dimensional ditherer whose in game management is absolutely horrendous.

The fact is heís firmly now the latter and long since been the former.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LukeJames on December 29, 2019, 09:11:50 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/2nPMjtt/Screenshot-20191229-091017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2nPMjtt)


26 shots on average conceeded per away game.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AVH87 on December 29, 2019, 09:16:09 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/2nPMjtt/Screenshot-20191229-091017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2nPMjtt)


26 shots on average conceeded per away game.

20. Stats are still damning.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LukeJames on December 29, 2019, 09:17:16 AM
Maths never was my strong point.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on December 29, 2019, 09:22:55 AM
When you read the riot act at halftime and it has no impact you've obviously lost the players.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: joe_c on December 29, 2019, 09:34:43 AM
Wesley is being played because, as opposition fans have noted far more than we have, he does a job that allows our midfield to do what it does. He suits the team plan better than Kodjia or Davis. I feel another Ashley Westwood-style row brewing if I carry on down that route though.


These are all good points. SMITH IN! Oh, I don't fucking know. He sounded desperate post-match. If the players have picked up in that then we're probably goosed. I don't know.

Exactly. No idea if he's struggling like our last two promoted bosses did initially or if he's not the man. I don't think he's the pressing problem though or, to put it another way, I don't think replacing him is the answer on its own by a long shot. Our squad has talent but very little nous. They'll only get that through experience or an injection of experience. We don't have time for the former.

My thoughts exactly. Good enough to take the lead as we've done often this season but not clever enough to keep it.

I personally think and hope he'll stay. I don't think the owners have bet the farm on survival and that relegation wouldn't be the catastrophe for us that it would be for Watford for example and that if it happens, it happens.

I also envision someone going down with 40 or more points this season, not really anyone marooned at this stage and plenty of the teams in the bottom third averaging around a point a game.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on December 29, 2019, 09:34:54 AM
When you read the riot act at halftime and it has no impact you've obviously lost the players.

in fairness it did have an impact

they got worse in the second half
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ozzjim on December 29, 2019, 09:38:18 AM
It's all quite heartbreaking.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 29, 2019, 09:40:45 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: lukey27 on December 29, 2019, 09:46:32 AM
I wonder what the average is nowadays for fans of any club to say their manager has "lost the dressing room" "tactically inept" "no plan B". 6-18 months I reckon.

If the Internet was around, would it have happened to Little after four opening defeats the year after we finished 4th.

With Smith, there were rumblings that he wasn't up to the job after losing to Albion last year, when I imagine some of the above was said.

This run is abysmal but I'm afraid the recruitment has been inept. Where is the blame at Suso's door. Two dreadful fullbacks, 20 Mill on Trezeguet and El Ghazi. 22 Mill on Wesley. It's been awful.

That team yesterday is a Championship team bar Grealish, the back four is not good enough. Lansbury, Hourihane, Wesley and El Ghazi are all not up to it. So we say, Smith has no plan B, I would like to know what the Plan B is with this lot.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: London Villan on December 29, 2019, 09:47:58 AM
He has to change something, but he seems too stubborn to do so.

Back 4 of
Elmo/Mings/Engels/Hause
Luis/Marv
Gilbert/Jack/Connor
Kod

Make us difficult to beat first - impact(!) players to come off the bench.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on December 29, 2019, 09:48:08 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.

we could lose him in the Jan window

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on December 29, 2019, 09:48:58 AM
I remember reading that the average stay for a PL manager at a club was just under 18 months so you are probably right.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 29, 2019, 09:49:18 AM
I admit I only saw the highlights on MOTD but it did look really, really
fucking bad. A real bastard pantomime.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: OzVilla on December 29, 2019, 09:52:33 AM
4-4-2, 3-5-2 thatís what DS is paid for. Not wasting your most influential player coming off a great game out on the left to accomodate Henri Lansbury. Communication with players, see Arsenal, Liverpool, Leicester, Burnley, Southampton games. Making substitutions when you team looks out on its feet. Basic stuff.

I think weíve signed some decent player who lack experience. The management team have not helped.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 29, 2019, 09:52:48 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.

we could lose him in the Jan window



If that happens then the owners really don't care about staying up. Which would be weird.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: itbrvilla on December 29, 2019, 09:53:43 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.
After really struggling to enjoy football over the last decade for a multitude of reasons this I feel would push me over the edge. Loosing the best player we've had for a few decades due to poor recruitment and management. What a fucking disaster.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 29, 2019, 09:56:58 AM
Iím wondering the fact that nothing has been said officially speaks volumes.
If a decision was going to be made then surely it would have happened by now.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on December 29, 2019, 10:02:55 AM
He has to change something, but he seems too stubborn to do so.

Back 4 of
Elmo/Mings/Engels/Hause
Luis/Marv
Gilbert/Jack/Connor
Kod

Make us difficult to beat first - impact(!) players to come off the bench.
If Bruce had put out that team he'd have been slaughtered on here
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The Edge on December 29, 2019, 10:04:12 AM
I'm at a loss to explain the drop in form since we went to Old Trafford and put in an excellent performance. We looked to have a game plan, we looked like a well drilled coherent unit and a win would not have flattered us. Fast forward just 27 days and we are simply unrecognisable. It's the most alarming drop off in form that i can ever remember. It's not just about losing Mings & McGinn we were dog shit before we lost them. I'm beginning to think something major has happened behind the scenes. That's pure speculation from me but something must have caused our disastrous slump.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on December 29, 2019, 10:04:39 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.

Definately.  And Jack was a major factor in us getting promoted.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 29, 2019, 10:06:37 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.
After really struggling to enjoy football over the last decade for a multitude of reasons this I feel would push me over the edge. Loosing the best player we've had for a few decades due to poor recruitment and management. What a fucking disaster.


(https://i.ibb.co/D1N9xf1/Merlin-11524566.png) (https://ibb.co/D1N9xf1)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Flin5tone on December 29, 2019, 10:10:48 AM
I was laughed at when I said I can't see much difference in the football between Smith and Bruce actually it's worse, he has no idea how to manage a PL game of football.

I think Smith is a top bloke and I'm absolutely gutted it's not worked out for him but his lack of premiership experience and managing a club the size of villa has proven to be too much for him. The players don't look happy, he's blaming the ref's, blaming the fixture pile up it's all the signs that it's time for change.

We can't hang around, unfortunately I think the owners will react too late and we will go down
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: robbo1874 on December 29, 2019, 10:12:31 AM
Smith out? Not yet, but unfortunately I think itís coming. Learned my lesson after defending Lambert McLeish and Bruce too long, when the writing was on the wall. If we get stuffed by Burnley and by Fulham in the cup, I fear it could be curtains. The one thing to maybe save him is the new 4 year contract he just signed, but admittedly we donít know the small print in it. I want him to succeed, especially being one of us, but probably no room for sentiment with these guys in charge.

Purslow could be in a tricky position too.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 29, 2019, 10:14:17 AM
Bruce probably wasn't quite as bad as many made out on here and yes, Smith has had some dodgey periods and is in one now but i still don't think your 'told-you-so's' are relevant.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 10:23:53 AM
Bruce was a
Bruce probably wasn't quite as bad as many made out on here
No he was worse.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on December 29, 2019, 10:35:42 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.

This. Heís the overwhelming reason we got up in the first place. Without him and probably McGinn weíre relying on good coaching and transfer dealings to get back, like everyone else, and the jury is very much out on both of those areas so I donít fancy out chances next season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 29, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
He was definately ready for the sack for several weeks before he got it and Smith definately got us promoted in the same season, which is really the point i'm making about the told you so comment a few posts up.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 29, 2019, 10:37:34 AM
I'm at a loss to explain the drop in form since we went to Old Trafford and put in an excellent performance. We looked to have a game plan, we looked like a well drilled coherent unit and a win would not have flattered us. Fast forward just 27 days and we are simply unrecognisable. It's the most alarming drop off in form that i can ever remember. It's not just about losing Mings & McGinn we were dog shit before we lost them. I'm beginning to think something major has happened behind the scenes. That's pure speculation from me but something must have caused our disastrous slump.

Regarding the loss of form, I think if you look back at the season it has been coming. Possibly not to this extent but we have been too open and conceding far too many shots even when we were playing well/getting results. We managed to mask it for a while with some better attacking play, fairly last ditch defending and a bit of luck. The loss of Mings and then McGinn has also obviously played a part in this as well, they are after all probably two of our best three players.

I think it has caught up with us and we have been found out to quite a big degree. The Leicester game exposed this massively and I think we have seen the players confidence drain since then. I think it also caused Smith to get a bit stuck somewhere between how he wants us to play and the reality that we arenít good enough to do it. This has led to him try (and largely fail) to make us a bit more solid - Sheffield United performance and Nakamba and Luiz as two DMs against Norwich are good examples - but this has also caused us to lose too much of the attacking play that was helping to maintain results earlier in the season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on December 29, 2019, 10:37:57 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.

This. Heís the overwhelming reason we got up in the first place. Without him and probably McGinn weíre relying on good coaching and transfer dealings to get back, like everyone else, and the jury is very much out on both of those areas so I donít fancy out chances next season.

Absolutely, but it's more than that. Jack is a homegrown club icon of a type we haven't had in decades, a player everything about whom is loveable and makes me proud. Losing him would be a blow to the heart as well as the head, perhaps even more so.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nev on December 29, 2019, 10:39:48 AM
Having slept on it I can only come to the conclusion that something has gone off behind the scenes since OT. Such a collapse is down to something other than the managers stubbornes and naivety. It can only explain why the urgency and effort have all but vanished. Perhaps the players have lost faith in the management hence this rumoured meeting?
It's really rather strange and one can't really see past the same shit occurring on NYD.
Time for another meeting?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 10:41:59 AM
Described by Risso I think as a once in a generation player.
Tony Gale was comparing him to Mason and Maddison and said he has got more talent than both of them.
We go down we lose him and that will be a sickener.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: old man villa fan on December 29, 2019, 10:57:15 AM
Promotion last season came too soon. We did not have a well drilled team that had been playing together under a manager for a couple of seasons. It is easy to gloss over this but, to me, this is why we are really struggling, not totally being down to the manager.

The squad for this season had to be thrown together and we are seeing the results of this. It is easy to sit on the side lines saying we should have done this or that and should have bought more PL experience.

Smith is going through a very tough patch with a squad that is not up to the required standard when injuries have hit us.

It is very difficult to buy time in the PL. I am not sure that a new manager can turn us around.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The Edge on December 29, 2019, 11:06:20 AM
Promotion last season came too soon. We did not have a well drilled team that had been playing together under a manager for a couple of seasons. It is easy to gloss over this but, to me, this is why we are really struggling, not totally being down to the manager.

The squad for this season had to be thrown together and we are seeing the results of this. It is easy to sit on the side lines saying we should have done this or that and should have bought more PL experience.

Smith is going through a very tough patch with a squad that is not up to the required standard when injuries have hit us.

It is very difficult to buy time in the PL. I am not sure that a new manager can turn us around.
Good point about promotion coming too soon. Throwing together a squad was always going to be a tough ask. Another thing that i think went against us was Chelsea's transfer ban. Had they been allowed to splash the cash i think we would have stood a good chance of signing Tammy Abraham which would have spared us the experience of watching Wesley struggle like a bird with a broken wing.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on December 29, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.
After really struggling to enjoy football over the last decade for a multitude of reasons this I feel would push me over the edge. Loosing the best player we've had for a few decades due to poor recruitment and management. What a fucking disaster.

Grealish is more important to us than Smith. Even in the Championship Smith looked pretty mediocre when Grealish was injured.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: supertom on December 29, 2019, 11:16:52 AM
I really see no way back for Smith now. We've got the 'stink.' He's made the kind of decisions and selections that are the mark of a dead man walking. That team yesterday, that selection, the continued insistence on a formation that isn't working, on a front man who is next to useless, it's the unmistakable whiff of a manager who's run out of ideas. The way some players are playing too, also absolutely reek of a lack of inspiration and belief in their manager. I would love him to turn it around but I've been a Villa fan coming up 30 years. Some of you have been fans longer, and we know that mark. We know it doesn't wash off. It can't be turned around. He's done for. No beating around the bush, get him out now, and get the new man in ASAP.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 29, 2019, 11:25:21 AM
Iím wondering whether a change is going to make any difference now anyway. The getting promoted too soon thing is a good point and itís resulted in us having to massively alter playing staff and although initial signs were good weíve got found out and teams know how to stop us.
Is bringing in a new manager even going to change this?
Other clubs get the bounce of a new guy but theyíre taking over established Premier League teams which is something weíre not.

If we do get out of this then whoever does it deserves a statue at VP!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 29, 2019, 11:37:09 AM
I really see no way back for Smith now. We've got the 'stink.' He's made the kind of decisions and selections that are the mark of a dead man walking. That team yesterday, that selection, the continued insistence on a formation that isn't working, on a front man who is next to useless, it's the unmistakable whiff of a manager who's run out of ideas. The way some players are playing too, also absolutely reek of a lack of inspiration and belief in their manager. I would love him to turn it around but I've been a Villa fan coming up 30 years. Some of you have been fans longer, and we know that mark. We know it doesn't wash off. It can't be turned around. He's done for. No beating around the bush, get him out now, and get the new man in ASAP.

Spot on Tom. Dead man walking.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Pete3206 on December 29, 2019, 11:38:05 AM
I'm just about on the side of allowing Smith to try and keep us up, but the actions of Everton and now West Ham may not help our plight. Especially, in the case of the Everton manager, who I'm sure will pluck a couple of quality nuggets from the foreign market in January. Would you trust Smith to spend wisely in the upcoming window/
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ROBBO on December 29, 2019, 11:38:46 AM
Those that say we got promoted too early would understand that without promotion Jack and McGinn would have been off, our two best players.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 29, 2019, 11:43:34 AM
Yes, that yesterday did suggest something is broken to the point of being irretrievable. Weíll see what the next couple of weeks bring. With a transfer window looming there is a lot to consider.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Pete3206 on December 29, 2019, 11:47:20 AM
Another thing to note about yesterday, is the haunted and frustrated look on Smith's face and, when he started to talk to Terry, Terry looked like he didn't give a shit. It reminded me of the end of Brian Little's reign, when he was throwing his arms in the air and looking to a static bench, searching for answers. It just makes me wonder what support or lack of it, is contributing to the current state of affairs. There is no doubt however, that Smith is steadily losing the plot.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Rudy65 on December 29, 2019, 11:54:50 AM
I really see no way back for Smith now. We've got the 'stink.' He's made the kind of decisions and selections that are the mark of a dead man walking. That team yesterday, that selection, the continued insistence on a formation that isn't working, on a front man who is next to useless, it's the unmistakable whiff of a manager who's run out of ideas. The way some players are playing too, also absolutely reek of a lack of inspiration and belief in their manager. I would love him to turn it around but I've been a Villa fan coming up 30 years. Some of you have been fans longer, and we know that mark. We know it doesn't wash off. It can't be turned around. He's done for. No beating around the bush, get him out now, and get the new man in ASAP.

I thought the same after Sheffield and it has since got worse since. It happens to most managers eventually and has become a regular pattern at VP. I donít recall any Villa manager turning it around from this position either. When the players look devoid of ideas and effort you just know the writing is on the wall
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on December 29, 2019, 11:55:37 AM
the enormity of the job is such that it has the capacity to eat Dean (and others) alive and it is. Sad, but true.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ian J on December 29, 2019, 12:00:10 PM
Iím convinced another season in the 2nd division would have helped Smith and the team and getting promoted the way we did has given us one challenge to soon.

However we did and with the right management during games and also a bit of luck we could be a few points better off. I suppose the crux is Smith learning or not? Yesterday it was plainly obvious to make a tactical switch when they went to 10 men. They did straightaway.

Playing Jack on the left has been too wasteful, he does play well there but surely heíd play even better more central.

The biggest mistake we have made though is going into this season with 2 untested strikers in this league, they say one of the toughest leagues in the World. Especially having a brilliant one in Tammy like last season.

Also my biggest concern is Smithís inability to change the course of a game or run of games very quickly. Last season it took the return of Jack and the singing of Mings. This season it might be an inspirational signing in January. Other managers have tricks up their sleeves, a change of tactic, brining on a player to change the game at half time or to nullify a threat and when this happens we never have a answer. Maybe thatís a lack of quality in the squad, it probably is in a way. But keeping Wes on at all times or even just keeping him isolated is not helping him or us. Playing Jack out wide, playing Connor too deep.

I donít know to be honest, I really like Smith and I hope in a way he turns it around in the next match as we are still very much in this. Iím just very annoyed to throw away so many points against our rivals like we have done Iím not sure we will beat Burnley.

Where is this inspiration going to spark from? Itís all too much at this level to rely on Jack and Mings. It worked last season but this league is very different.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 29, 2019, 12:06:06 PM
Get Pulis in until the end of the season.  He has never taken a team down from this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on December 29, 2019, 12:07:04 PM
Those that say we got promoted too early would understand that without promotion Jack and McGinn would have been off, our two best players.

I think that idea is more in response to the fact that we ended the season with effectively 12 players left in the squad. And a lot of those (Taylor, Lansbury, Kodjia) were always going to be of limited use in this division.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The Edge on December 29, 2019, 12:11:17 PM
Get Pulis in until the end of the season.  He has never taken a team down from this level.

No thanks. "Shudders"
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 29, 2019, 12:13:02 PM
Get Pulis in until the end of the season.  He has never taken a team down from this level.

Fuck, no. I'd rather have Bono with Gerrard as assistant.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: rougegorge on December 29, 2019, 12:14:43 PM
"My future is not in question for me at the moment. All I will do is get the players ready for the next game. We ways knew it would be a tough season."

That sounds like someone who is expecting to getting the chop; just getting the players ready...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 29, 2019, 12:14:44 PM
I also don't buy the "we got promoted too early" line.  The problem isn't that we bought too many players, it's that we bought too many who aren't good enough.  Swap Trezeguet and Wesley for Benrahma and Maupay, and I reckon we'd be comfortably mid table by now.

And if we hadn't gone up, we'd have needed an even bigger rebuilding job, as we'd have lost Grealish and McGinn.  I reckon we'd have been festering outside the top 6 to be honest.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The Edge on December 29, 2019, 12:22:44 PM
Theres some wild speculation flying around the interweb. Apparently Martin O'Neil is "on the verge" of a return!! The web is a dark place sometimes.
 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: stubbsyandy on December 29, 2019, 12:23:42 PM
Iíve not heard Mings sing so canít comment
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ian J on December 29, 2019, 12:28:12 PM
Fat Sam, Pullis and now MON. Oh dear me.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 29, 2019, 12:29:08 PM
If MON comes anywhere near us again, I'm officially putting myself in cryosleep.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 29, 2019, 12:30:57 PM
Get Pulis in until the end of the season.  He has never taken a team down from this level.

He will ask for minimum 18 months contract and 100m + to spend on world class players like James McClean so you have to consider that aswell.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: algy on December 29, 2019, 12:41:53 PM
For me, it depends on what the plan is in January. If there is one, and it doesn't boil down to 'business as usual', then I'd stick with Smith. I like him as a person and I don't think we're far short of being a decent side as this level.

Clearly the team aren't likely to survive as things stand, so he needs to have some kind of idea of how that's going to be fixed. As long as that's a fairly sane one, I'd stick with him & back him to the hilt.

If his plan is along the lines of keep playing the same bunch of players under the same system with maybe a couple of squad players then obviously he has to go, but I do think people are underestimating the scale of rebuilding that's had to happen. Over the summer we've basically had to go from 12 players who finished mid table in the Championship to a 20-odd player squad who aren't going to be completely cut adrift in the Premier League. Sign 3/4 decent players this coming window and we'll be fine.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 29, 2019, 12:44:11 PM
If MON comes anywhere near us again, I'm officially putting myself in cryosleep.

The problem is when they put you into defrost mode in 2099 MON will still be in charge.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 29, 2019, 12:44:52 PM
God be with the days when we'd have heard of the chairman's plane landing in Birmingham by now. Or Moyes spotted at the Belfry.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 29, 2019, 12:48:46 PM
God be with the days when we'd have heard of the chairman's plane landing in Birmingham by now. Or Moyes spotted at the Belfry.

Funny you should say that, a mate of mine has just got of the eighteenth at the Belfry and he said, I'm sure I've just seen David Moyes with John Terry. Oh the rumours!!!!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:50:24 PM
God be with the days when we'd have heard of the chairman's plane landing in Birmingham by now. Or Moyes spotted at the Belfry.

Funny you should say that, a mate of mine has just got of the eighteenth at the Belfry and he said, I'm sure I've just seen David Moyes with John Terry. Oh the rumours!!!!
purslow at Ohare connecting flight to Buenos Aires
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 29, 2019, 12:53:29 PM
God be with the days when we'd have heard of the chairman's plane landing in Birmingham by now. Or Moyes spotted at the Belfry.

Funny you should say that, a mate of mine has just got of the eighteenth at the Belfry and he said, I'm sure I've just seen David Moyes with John Terry. Oh the rumours!!!!

First I predict a heavy loss to Watford, now this.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2019, 12:55:50 PM
Strikes me as pretty obvious we went up too soon but also obvious we had to otherwise we'd be in division 2 with no Jack, he's said a number of times he wouldn't be here if we hadn't gone up, and a massive FFP albatross hanging around our neck and we'd still have needed to do a big rebuild but would have been doing it with 76p and half a pack of Jaffa cakes to spend.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 29, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
God be with the days when we'd have heard of the chairman's plane landing in Birmingham by now. Or Moyes spotted at the Belfry.

Funny you should say that, a mate of mine has just got of the eighteenth at the Belfry and he said, I'm sure I've just seen David Moyes with John Terry. Oh the rumours!!!!
purslow at Ohare connecting flight to Buenos Aires

That's just to finalise the deal for Messi, Aguero, Gonzalo HiguaŪn and Ńngel Di MarŪa, not sure about Maradona as the new coach. we'd still struggle, its the Villa way.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:59:26 PM
God be with the days when we'd have heard of the chairman's plane landing in Birmingham by now. Or Moyes spotted at the Belfry.

Funny you should say that, a mate of mine has just got of the eighteenth at the Belfry and he said, I'm sure I've just seen David Moyes with John Terry. Oh the rumours!!!!
purslow at Ohare connecting flight to Buenos Aires

That's just to finalise the deal for Messi, Aguero, Gonzalo HiguaŪn and Ńngel Di MarŪa, not sure about Maradona as the new coach. we'd still struggle, its the Villa way.
Get the Colombian marching powder ready and hold on to your seats.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 29, 2019, 01:27:58 PM
God be with the days when we'd have heard of the chairman's plane landing in Birmingham by now. Or Moyes spotted at the Belfry.

Funny you should say that, a mate of mine has just got of the eighteenth at the Belfry and he said, I'm sure I've just seen David Moyes with John Terry. Oh the rumours!!!!
purslow at Ohare connecting flight to Buenos Aires

😳
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 29, 2019, 01:37:54 PM
Have only been skim-reading this thread, but think I have got the gist. Callum O'Hare is signing for Boca Juniors?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villadelph on December 29, 2019, 02:01:33 PM
Have only been skim-reading this thread, but think I have got the gist. Callum O'Hare is signing for Boca Juniors?

 ;D
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on December 29, 2019, 02:12:27 PM
God be with the days when we'd have heard of the chairman's plane landing in Birmingham by now. Or Moyes spotted at the Belfry.

Funny you should say that, a mate of mine has just got of the eighteenth at the Belfry and he said, I'm sure I've just seen David Moyes with John Terry. Oh the rumours!!!!
purslow at Ohare connecting flight to Buenos Aires

😳


John Terry is based at The Belfry when he stays up in the Midlands. My son was working there for a while as a chef and John Terry was always very friendly towards him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on December 29, 2019, 03:03:21 PM
I really see no way back for Smith now. We've got the 'stink.' He's made the kind of decisions and selections that are the mark of a dead man walking. That team yesterday, that selection, the continued insistence on a formation that isn't working, on a front man who is next to useless, it's the unmistakable whiff of a manager who's run out of ideas. The way some players are playing too, also absolutely reek of a lack of inspiration and belief in their manager. I would love him to turn it around but I've been a Villa fan coming up 30 years. Some of you have been fans longer, and we know that mark. We know it doesn't wash off. It can't be turned around. He's done for. No beating around the bush, get him out now, and get the new man in ASAP.

Sad but true. Add to that, Jack showing signs of frustration near the end. Our players whinging at every decision against us. Smith's post match comments stinking of desperation. It's all wrong.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 29, 2019, 03:21:53 PM
Relegation would mean losing Jack, which would straightforwardly be a catastrophe.

we could lose him in the Jan window



If that happens then the owners really don't care about staying up. Which would be weird.

And clearly won't happen.

Christ, there's some crap posted when people are feeling down.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 29, 2019, 03:26:16 PM
Get Pulis in until the end of the season.  He has never taken a team down from this level.

No thanks. "Shudders"

Fuck me.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 29, 2019, 03:27:08 PM
I also don't buy the "we got promoted too early" line.  The problem isn't that we bought too many players, it's that we bought too many who aren't good enough.  Swap Trezeguet and Wesley for Benrahma and Maupay, and I reckon we'd be comfortably mid table by now.

And if we hadn't gone up, we'd have needed an even bigger rebuilding job, as we'd have lost Grealish and McGinn.  I reckon we'd have been festering outside the top 6 to be honest.

Whose fault is that?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 29, 2019, 04:05:23 PM
I also don't buy the "we got promoted too early" line.  The problem isn't that we bought too many players, it's that we bought too many who aren't good enough.  Swap Trezeguet and Wesley for Benrahma and Maupay, and I reckon we'd be comfortably mid table by now.

And if we hadn't gone up, we'd have needed an even bigger rebuilding job, as we'd have lost Grealish and McGinn.  I reckon we'd have been festering outside the top 6 to be honest.

Whose fault is that?

The wrong players bit?  I'd say Wesley and Trezeguet look like Pitarch signings.  Targett and Jota, probably Smith.  But nobody is forcing him to play Wesley week in, week out.  Or if they are, he should resign anyway.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: KRS on December 29, 2019, 04:19:50 PM
Pretty sure itís been stated that the transfer and recruitment was a panel of Smith, Purslow and Pitarch? If so, then there is a collective responsibility for any poor signings.

When our only other forward option is JK, is it any wonder that Dean keeps playing Wes? Letís not make JK out to be some kind of messiah that will turn around our fortunes when the very same player could barely manage a decent performance in the Championship.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: usav on December 29, 2019, 04:22:14 PM
Correct.  To go into this season with not one forward with premier league experience was asking foe trouble, and here we are...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: olaftab on December 29, 2019, 04:22:45 PM
Strikes me as pretty obvious we went up too soon but also obvious we had to otherwise we'd be in division 2 with no Jack, he's said a number of times he wouldn't be here if we hadn't gone up, and a massive FFP albatross hanging around our neck and we'd still have needed to do a big rebuild but would have been doing it with 76p and half a pack of Jaffa cakes to spend.
Totally agree with you but I think you are wrong on resources available to rebuild. I have it on good authority that we had a full crate of Dandelion & Burdock and two packets of fig rolls.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 29, 2019, 04:23:43 PM
I don't think anybody is claiming that Kodjia is the messiah, but almost every other player in the team has been dropped at one point for playing poorly, except Wesley.  And over the course of the season, his performances in total have been worse than everybody else.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Small Rodent on December 29, 2019, 04:39:25 PM
Quite interesting how Iíve not met anyone at the match today or on the train home who wants Smith out and yet you come on here and.. 



Yes I agree Marlon. I canít get to games living too far away so I always follow the match thread on here, but today I turned it off as I just couldnít stand the negativity. Sure Dean is having a bad time and you can see he is now starting to feel the pressure, but I will back him even if we go down. He had no choice but  to pull a brand new team together who didn't know each other nor did they have PL experience, and for the first quarter of the season got away with it. I have questioned his tactics sometimes but the real issue is that the reality of the cards he was dealt came to the fore when confidence took a knock and now they are running scared and have lost the bravery they showed in knocking the ball about. This is now a huge test for Dean but if turns it around then he will be a better manager for it.

I donít think I will follow another match thread again whilst Dean is in charge which is a shame really
I absolutely agree, though I will still follow the match threads, hopefully those turning on Smith will regret their haste to wanít him gone.

Well thatís three of you who are better fans than the rest of us. Well done.
I agree with most of their points, so can I claim the 'better fan' tag then? Even though none of them have said or claimed any such thing.

Apologies jwarry, Taylor, Marlon and Boutros...

I was sad, angry, and drunk alone in a hotel room!

I shouldnít say that about other peopleís opinions.

For what itís worth, Iím desperate for Smith to succeed, but the evidence is not there for me that he will change.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Bren'd on December 29, 2019, 04:42:37 PM
He had little option but to play Wes if Kodja wasnít pushing hard for a starting place. He did however have the option of trying El Ghazi up top who clearly has a better eye for goal.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 29, 2019, 04:45:09 PM
I don't think anybody is claiming that Kodjia is the messiah, but almost every other player in the team has been dropped at one point for playing poorly, except Wesley.  And over the course of the season, his performances in total have been worse than everybody else.

It isnít just that. Itís the insistence on one way of playing that isnít helping at all. Maybe Wesley plays better when not being the focal point of the attack. That is, play him in a two versus on his own with two ineffective wingers miles away from him. Maybe we should try 3-5-2, 4-4-1-1, a diamond; just something else other than 4-3-3 which is really isnít a 3 up front at all because our other two are too wide.

Wesley to me at the moment anyway certainly isnít the answer so why is he picked week after week? And if Dean Smith wanted to dispel the calls for Kodjia it probably didnít help him scoring twice the only time heís started a game this season. His best days are behind him but itís madness not to at least give him a go right now either on his own or with Wesley.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 29, 2019, 04:52:40 PM
The thing about Wesley is that we don't know what the behind the scenes stuff is. I suspect Kodjia has a shit attitude and Smith wouldn't want that attitude to take over, fuck knows we've had enough of that sort of shit over the years.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 29, 2019, 04:54:41 PM
I don't think anybody is claiming that Kodjia is the messiah, but almost every other player in the team has been dropped at one point for playing poorly, except Wesley.  And over the course of the season, his performances in total have been worse than everybody else.

Grealish, McGinn, Mings, Heaton, Engels, aside.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on December 29, 2019, 05:03:20 PM
The thing about Wesley is that we don't know what the behind the scenes stuff is. I suspect Kodjia has a shit attitude and Smith wouldn't want that attitude to take over, fuck knows we've had enough of that sort of shit over the years.

Why do you suspect that? I'd say its more that he's got a move lined up.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 29, 2019, 05:06:16 PM
Dean is going nowhere for now. Been given transfer funds to sign 3 or 4 players this month. Response needed v Burnley now
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 29, 2019, 05:13:16 PM
The thing about Wesley is that we don't know what the behind the scenes stuff is. I suspect Kodjia has a shit attitude and Smith wouldn't want that attitude to take over, fuck knows we've had enough of that sort of shit over the years.

Why do you suspect that? I'd say its more that he's got a move lined up.

I don't know, there's loads of bollocks speculation on here so thought I'd add my own.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TonyD on December 29, 2019, 05:18:26 PM
Still no news. 
I think the owners could just be as incompetent as the manager.
Worrying times.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 29, 2019, 05:22:55 PM
The thing about Wesley is that we don't know what the behind the scenes stuff is. I suspect Kodjia has a shit attitude and Smith wouldn't want that attitude to take over, fuck knows we've had enough of that sort of shit over the years.

Why do you suspect that? I'd say its more that he's got a move lined up.

Kodjia will be on his way in January.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on December 29, 2019, 05:30:01 PM
The thing about Wesley is that we don't know what the behind the scenes stuff is. I suspect Kodjia has a shit attitude and Smith wouldn't want that attitude to take over, fuck knows we've had enough of that sort of shit over the years.

Why do you suspect that? I'd say its more that he's got a move lined up.

Kodjia will be on his way in January.

Has to be this. He can't be worse than Wesley. It's not possible.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LeeB on December 29, 2019, 05:36:36 PM
For me, it depends on what the plan is in January. If there is one, and it doesn't boil down to 'business as usual', then I'd stick with Smith. I like him as a person and I don't think we're far short of being a decent side as this level.

Clearly the team aren't likely to survive as things stand, so he needs to have some kind of idea of how that's going to be fixed. As long as that's a fairly sane one, I'd stick with him & back him to the hilt.

If his plan is along the lines of keep playing the same bunch of players under the same system with maybe a couple of squad players then obviously he has to go, but I do think people are underestimating the scale of rebuilding that's had to happen. Over the summer we've basically had to go from 12 players who finished mid table in the Championship to a 20-odd player squad who aren't going to be completely cut adrift in the Premier League. Sign 3/4 decent players this coming window and we'll be fine.

Iím with you pal.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on December 29, 2019, 05:45:25 PM
I expect the owners will be buying more players in January who may be able to deliver Deano's vision. There is something going on at Villa (and has been going on for years) that makes us unable to deliver the basics much of the time. That is what needs working out. I think its too many people stealing a living across the whole club. The extent to which heads have dropped and workrate (never massive IMO) is astonishing from a team of professional footballers.


Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: David_Nab on December 29, 2019, 05:45:53 PM
The thing about Wesley is that we don't know what the behind the scenes stuff is. I suspect Kodjia has a shit attitude and Smith wouldn't want that attitude to take over, fuck knows we've had enough of that sort of shit over the years.

Why do you suspect that? I'd say its more that he's got a move lined up.

Kodjia will be on his way in January.

Out of contract in Summer , never starts and is only on Bench as Davis is injured.I'm certain he is off
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on December 29, 2019, 06:11:42 PM
Still no news. 
I think the owners could just be as incompetent as the manager.
Worrying times.

What news are you waiting for?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: itbrvilla on December 29, 2019, 06:54:22 PM
I expect the owners will be buying more players in January who may be able to deliver Deano's vision. There is something going on at Villa (and has been going on for years) that makes us unable to deliver the basics much of the time. That is what needs working out. I think its too many people stealing a living across the whole club. The extent to which heads have dropped and workrate (never massive IMO) is astonishing from a team of professional footballers.



What is Dean's vision?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on December 29, 2019, 06:57:12 PM
Still no news. 
I think the owners could just be as incompetent as the manager.
Worrying times.

What news are you waiting for?

I've often found that a mixture of pouting, scowling, huffing and/or puffing, with stamping of feet is usually best reserved for such occasions when what I want to happen, has not happened.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 07:01:58 PM
I am waiting for news that Phil the Duke is fully recovered and ready to replace Wes against Burnley.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: tomd2103 on December 29, 2019, 08:53:23 PM
For me, it depends on what the plan is in January. If there is one, and it doesn't boil down to 'business as usual', then I'd stick with Smith. I like him as a person and I don't think we're far short of being a decent side as this level.

Clearly the team aren't likely to survive as things stand, so he needs to have some kind of idea of how that's going to be fixed. As long as that's a fairly sane one, I'd stick with him & back him to the hilt.

If his plan is along the lines of keep playing the same bunch of players under the same system with maybe a couple of squad players then obviously he has to go, but I do think people are underestimating the scale of rebuilding that's had to happen. Over the summer we've basically had to go from 12 players who finished mid table in the Championship to a 20-odd player squad who aren't going to be completely cut adrift in the Premier League. Sign 3/4 decent players this coming window and we'll be fine.

Iím with you pal.

On reflection, that sums up where I am as well.  I think there could be a case for a change before or during the January window, but I also think there is a case that Dean Smith should be given the opportunity to address our recent slump by adding to the squad in January. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 29, 2019, 09:02:53 PM
Phil The Duke can't play.  Sandringham Swifts hold his registration until the end of the season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Fred Crump on December 29, 2019, 09:06:24 PM
Iím sorry , Iíve got to say it. I hate the title of this thread. It just feels disloyal and all wrong. The tíinternet equivalent of booing your own side at half time.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Roysmert on December 29, 2019, 09:12:02 PM
I've cooled down. I've had 24 hours to digest that shite from yesterday. I've been to watch top of the table Swindon play exactly like us and lose at Port Vale. And I've changed my mind. Deano in. This play-like-man-city disease is affecting the entire football pyramid. Problem is 99% of teams are not up to it, including us. So, have another window to put it right, be firm with "Suso" and try to perhaps adapt us. And for fuck's sake make sure we stay up.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 29, 2019, 09:17:29 PM
I've cooled down. I've had 24 hours to digest that shite from yesterday. I've been to watch top of the table Swindon play exactly like us and lose at Port Vale. And I've changed my mind. Deano in. This play-like-man-city disease is affecting the entire football pyramid. Problem is 99% of teams are not up to it, including us. So, have another window to put it right, be firm with "Suso" and try to perhaps adapt us. And for fuck's sake make sure we stay up.

Similarly, Amen
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Fred Crump on December 29, 2019, 09:55:59 PM
Thank goodness, I thought I was the only one who thought like this for a while.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Chipsticks on December 29, 2019, 09:56:49 PM
I'd rather go down with Smith than sack him, to be honest - and I'm confident the club share that mentality.

If you've paid attention to any of Purslow's interviews, you'd know that we've begun a long-term project, with Smith at the heart of it.

We need some key additions in January and a plan B, not another several years of managerial roundabout.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on December 29, 2019, 10:08:26 PM
I donít like the title of the thread either, but I suppose I donít have to read it or contribute to it.

For me going back in time, Bruce would of gone after the play off defeat but the financial issues and Dr X going half AWOL actually saved him. He was neither the owners or Purslows man so the writing was always on the wall for him. There is no way the new billionaire owners would have heard of Smith, Terry Henry would of been a marquee appointment for them, but also a car crash. Smith is Purslows appointment.

After we got promoted smith and Purslow both stated they had a plan for being in the premier and a plan for remaining in the championship. I think this kind of thinking will mean they have a plan for staying up or relegation.

They gave smith a 4 year contract whilst the slump started, that was his vote of confidence. Of course they wonít want relegation, but I canít see them splashing the cash to sack Smith or replace him with a star name (e.g. Poch or Benitez), when the chances are with this set of tried and untested players we could go down anyway. I actually think they may keep smith even if we go down.

I like Dean but am as frustrated as anybody with lack of tactical change, but I do think he is desperately trying to find anything with the hand or players heís been dealt with. Jota and Lansbury are back up players he used because the first choice players are playing so badly or maybe arenít good enough.

Like others have said they need to put their Ďplayers with potentialí ideals on hold to an extent in January even if it was to get one experienced head in.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on December 29, 2019, 10:10:57 PM
So why persist with Wes on his own up front when it clearly is not working?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: passport1 on December 29, 2019, 10:41:25 PM
Phil The Duke can't play.  Sandringham Swifts hold his registration until the end of the season.

We'll just have to employ him as team bus driver then.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Fred Crump on December 29, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Phil The Duke can't play.  Sandringham Swifts hold his registration until the end of the season.

We'll just have to employ him as team bus driver then.

Lol. Sounds like a Dream Team scenario  ;D
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 29, 2019, 11:00:43 PM
Phil The Duke can't play.  Sandringham Swifts hold his registration until the end of the season.
We would be better off with "Pete the Greek" up top rather than Phil the Greek or Wesley
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ROBBO on December 29, 2019, 11:12:10 PM
Disappointed that the owners haven't acted because for me it sends a message that you can send a side out like that with no repercussions, the players that will play are the same players that have underperformed for the last few weeks, Wesley will still be playing home alone and the same elementary mistakes will be made by the same players, West Ham are only 1 point in front of us but with a change of manager even though it's moyes I think they will avoid the drop.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 29, 2019, 11:17:31 PM
Disappointed that the owners haven't acted because for me it sends a message that you can send a side out like that with no repercussions, the players that will play are the same players that have underperformed for the last few weeks, Wesley will still be playing home alone and the same elementary mistakes will be made by the same players, West Ham are only 1 point in front of us but with a change of manager even though it's moyes I think they will avoid the drop.

I too am disappointed they haven't acted but I doubt that means they've done nothing.

I would assume they've put out feelers and they're waiting for clear indicators before going any further with it. They probably feel that neither Terry/O'Kelly is a suitable interim option and want to make sure they can get a capable manager in before making any concrete decisions.

Realistically, having no experienced manager in place for a prolonged period is definitely more damaging than having to stick with Dean longer than the majority would care to.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 29, 2019, 11:21:15 PM
Lose to Burnley as I think we will and I expect the last few wavering fans will change their mind. Smith has lost it completely, and I canít see what he can do to turn things round.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on December 29, 2019, 11:23:35 PM
Glad that Moyes has been taken off the table

But the very real fear of Allardyce or Pulis stepping up to put the tin hat on the whole fucking decade is enough for me to stick with Mr D Smith
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 29, 2019, 11:31:40 PM
Glad that Moyes has been taken off the table
But the very real fear of Allardyce or Pulis stepping up to put the tin hat on the whole fucking decade is enough for me to stick with Mr D Smith
What's Curbishley up to these days? :)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: andyh on December 29, 2019, 11:32:56 PM
Pulis? Not a chance in hell.
Allerdyce though, a 6 month contract with a bonus for keeping us up, would be ok with me.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2019, 11:33:20 PM
We need to think big and ambitious, Allardyce as DoF, Pulis head coach, Eric Black as his assistant, Sherwood in charge of training.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 29, 2019, 11:35:17 PM
If our owners are as bright and ambitious as we're led to believe then the chances of us appointing an Allardyce, Pulis, Curbishley, et al should be less than zero.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 29, 2019, 11:43:48 PM
We need to think big and ambitious, Allardyce as DoF, Pulis head coach, Eric Black as his assistant, Sherwood in charge of training.
With Barry Bennell as Youth Team Coach
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Gareth on December 30, 2019, 12:01:49 AM
One thing I havenít picked up from this thread is what the attitude of those in the ground at Watford was? With so many who will have done Watford also being at Burnley it is a huge game.

Personally I am still in the camp of hoping that Smith turns it round but getting more concerned by the game where tactics/formations never change - if it does go wrong at Burnley we have a week and half without a league game where actions will need to occur be it changes of mgmt or getting in reinforcements
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 30, 2019, 12:05:55 AM
Burnley at the end of Nov 2014 was the first time the away support started to turn on Lambert.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: eamonn on December 30, 2019, 12:16:45 AM
Was that when Joe Cole scored his only goal for us?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:27:20 AM
Glad that Moyes has been taken off the table
But the very real fear of Allardyce or Pulis stepping up to put the tin hat on the whole fucking decade is enough for me to stick with Mr D Smith
What's Curbishley up to these days? :)
Practicing his pronunciation of Birmingham or as Al says it Burminum
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Pete3206 on December 30, 2019, 12:30:18 AM
Was that when Joe Cole scored his only goal for us?

Yes
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 30, 2019, 08:52:24 AM
It has become a tradition over the lst ten years or more that when Curbishley's name is mentioned in connection with the position of Villa manager I post that at least I might get my Koi carp back.  See posts passim.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 09:24:37 AM
It's a strange one why Curbishley hasn't worked in the last 10 years.  He did very well at Charlton, and only left West Ham because they apparently sold players without his knowledge.  And it's not like he's some David O'Leary arsehole type who nobody likes.

Not for one moment suggesting him for Villa boss, just wondering if there's anything behind the scenes that's stopped him working?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Smithy on December 30, 2019, 09:30:32 AM
Lose to Burnley as I think we will and I expect the last few wavering fans will change their mind. Smith has lost it completely, and I canít see what he can do to turn things round.

I think I'm in that camp. I said before the Man Utd game, that we had a few very tough games, and then a few 'easier' ones, but if we had less than 20 points after Burnley we'd be in trouble (I thought we'd be around 22/23 and a couple of places above the relegation zone by that point).

For me, the biggest concern isn't the points tally, we are after all only a couple of points from relative safety. It's that our performances appear to be getting worse, while those of the teams around us (or who WERE around us) are getting better.

I'd hate to see Smith sacked, as it's an admission that appointing one of our own has failed. It's like when a young player comes through, starts brightly, but then clearly isn't up to the job. It hurts more.  But I think anything less than a convincing win against Burnley and time is up.  The form of the teams around us means we have to change something, and if Smith can't change it on the pitch, then the club have to change it off it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
Our away form has been abysmal, and I think that that is what's going to do for him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Chris Smith on December 30, 2019, 10:13:58 AM
Itís a really difficult time to replace the manager and coaching staff (they come with him as a team) given the transfer window is about to open. So having that distraction is something that I think should only be considered if they are 100% certain that they can get people in who will hit the ground running. I struggle to see how they do this, assess the squad and then oversee transfers. So, for now, Iím in the stick with him and strengthen in January camp.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 30, 2019, 10:21:22 AM
It's a strange one why Curbishley hasn't worked in the last 10 years.  He did very well at Charlton, and only left West Ham because they apparently sold players without his knowledge.  And it's not like he's some David O'Leary arsehole type who nobody likes.

Not for one moment suggesting him for Villa boss, just wondering if there's anything behind the scenes that's stopped him working?

I believe a lot of club owners were put off by him actually taking West Ham to court over those players being sold without his knowledge so he might've become a black mark given the way football clubs run regarding transfers now. Or he could've been so disappointed by how it turned out at West Ham given it was his dream job he wasn't really bothered about taking a lower job.

He was actually at Fulham as a sort of DOF for part of 13/14.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 30, 2019, 10:34:31 AM
Curbishley is a genuinely nice guy.  I think he simply fell out of love with football.  I wish I could.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Gareth on December 30, 2019, 10:46:58 AM
Curbishley is a genuinely nice guy.  I think he simply fell out of love with football.  I wish I could.

Think he did a podcast recently where he said he was waiting for a job that he felt was worthy to come up & by the time he thought he had to go looking he was yesterdayís man
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: russon on December 30, 2019, 12:00:01 PM
Curbishley is a genuinely nice guy.  I think he simply fell out of love with football.  I wish I could.
👍perfectly put! Iíd love to shake this damned albatross off too but if the Lambert and Bruce years couldnít do it nothing will, although half soaked laggards like Lansbury and El Ghazi are stretching me to my absolute limits.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on December 30, 2019, 12:57:52 PM
It's a strange one why Curbishley hasn't worked in the last 10 years.  He did very well at Charlton, and only left West Ham because they apparently sold players without his knowledge.  And it's not like he's some David O'Leary arsehole type who nobody likes.

Not for one moment suggesting him for Villa boss, just wondering if there's anything behind the scenes that's stopped him working?

Iíve always thought this too

he always gets lumped in there with the other British dinosaurs when that was never the case
did an unbelievable job with Charlton playing decent football
But his time is over now at top level

Roy Hodgson is another one who for me bucks the British dinosaur trend,
I think heís a lot better manager than heís given credit for in some quarters

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 30, 2019, 03:01:37 PM
Curbishley is a genuinely nice guy.  I think he simply fell out of love with football.  I wish I could.
I  started to fall out of love with the game some while back ÖÖÖ.. falling out of love with the Villa is almost impossible Ö its like that very first girl you fell in love with, who remains ingrained in/on your memory for life ÖÖ..you just cant let go (no matter how much she hurt you )
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on December 30, 2019, 03:29:05 PM
No doubt we're struggling, but I always expected us to.  We're in an awful run of form, two of our best players are injured and we have a dreadfully misfiring front man.  Non of us truly know how involved Smith was in the recruitment, but what we do know is he wanted Maupay and didn't get him.  Pure speculation on whether he would have made much difference but I suspect he would.

For me, all things considered I'd stick with Smith.  He's a streaky manager hopefully we'll find some form in the new year.  If a great alternative was available (the likes of Poch) then yeah, make the change. But I don't see the point of change for changes sake. 

I'm not happy, but trusting Smith will get it right in time. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2019, 03:36:40 PM
Its not to say we've not had problems to a certain degree all season. But up to opening the 8th window on your advent calendar, a thread like this would have been highly unlikely.

We're 22 days on from that Leicester game.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 30, 2019, 03:43:14 PM
I was hit by a double heartbreak whammy.  My first love lived at 33 Witton Lane, since demolished, her house not her, though she too has probably crumbled by now.  I met her when I parked my bike in their front garden on match days.  Not long before it wasn't  only my bike I was parking.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 30, 2019, 03:48:10 PM
I was hit by a double heartbreak whammy.  My first love lived at 33 Witton Lane, since demolished, her house not her, though she too has probably crumbled by now.  I met her when I parked my bike in their front garden on match days.  Not long before it wasn't  only my bike I was parking.
Was it a Chopper Brian ? :)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on December 30, 2019, 04:22:41 PM
Now the poll is more evenly split , I would like to move that the thread title be amended by the addition of a question mark.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on December 30, 2019, 04:23:08 PM
I've always thought of Brian as an Easy rider.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 04:33:34 PM
I was hit by a double heartbreak whammy.  My first love lived at 33 Witton Lane, since demolished, her house not her, though she too has probably crumbled by now.  I met her when I parked my bike in their front garden on match days.  Not long before it wasn't  only my bike I was parking.
You got a side car ?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Bad English on December 30, 2019, 04:37:08 PM
After calming down (synonym for opening bottles of wine on a regular basis since the game) I am downgrading my Smithometer from 'P45' to 'Severely-raised eyebrows'.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 04:46:32 PM
The problem I have from watching various managers come and go, is when they lose the plot they donít ever seem to find  it again. Of course you hope for that Damascene Conversion but once  they have gone they struggle to get out the car park let alone find the bloody road to Damascus.
This is what Watford signified to me.
It was shambolic from the team selection to Smiths rambling post match interviews.

I struggle to see how you recover from that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TopDeck113 on December 30, 2019, 04:51:48 PM
I was hit by a double heartbreak whammy.  My first love lived at 33 Witton Lane, since demolished, her house not her, though she too has probably crumbled by now.  I met her when I parked my bike in their front garden on match days.  Not long before it wasn't  only my bike I was parking.

Brian, there was a celebrated New York bike shop owner whose eponymous racing bikes would be of your vintage.  His name?  Dick Power.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 30, 2019, 05:37:00 PM
She was the manageress of Wimbush's bread and cake shop in Ashted Row.  The termination of the leg over I could live with but the cutting off the free jam doughnuts was cruel.  I still stifle a sniffle on match days when I sit on those excruciating iron benches in the bit of park where No 33 used to stand eating Charlie's chips and curry sauce wondering how many we are going to lose by.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on December 30, 2019, 05:38:03 PM
She put the bush in Wimbush.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 30, 2019, 05:47:52 PM
After calming down (synonym for opening bottles of wine on a regular basis since the game) I am downgrading my Smithometer from 'P45' to 'Severely-raised eyebrows'.

Don't worry. Only two days until Burnley.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 30, 2019, 06:30:25 PM
She put the bush in Wimbush.
I wonder if she moved to the Hagley Road and ended up working at Firkins......I always loved a good Firkin
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on December 30, 2019, 06:37:31 PM
After calming down (synonym for opening bottles of wine on a regular basis since the game) I am downgrading my Smithometer from 'P45' to 'Severely-raised eyebrows'.

It's the hope that kills us!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: German James on December 30, 2019, 06:38:29 PM
She put the bush in Wimbush.
I wonder if she moved to the Hagley Road and ended up working at Firkins......I always loved a good Firkin

Astonishingly specific punning you two. Well done!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Allan C on December 30, 2019, 06:41:52 PM
Unfortunately I think itís inevitable that Smith will get the sack. I think he should be given more time to continue building. But thereís two questions Iíd like answered
1 Where is the proof of the so called player meeting where Smith was excluded from?? This was thrown into the debate with absolutely no evidence of itís fact despite several references to it.
2 If a new manager is required, why do we always champion the usual contenders while dismissing the likes of Poch as unrealistic?? Everton, a smaller club than us have employed one of the best managers in the world. Itís small time thinking and short term planning
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2019, 07:05:42 PM
Under Carlo Ancelotti, Bayern players arranged their own training. Even if there was a players meeting; so what?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:57:03 PM
I'd fully expect the players to stand up and have a meeting if things weren't going right. They don't need to invite the manager.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 30, 2019, 08:07:18 PM
Under Carlo Ancelotti, Bayern players arranged their own training. Even if there was a players meeting; so what?

Yes, I don't get why the players caring enough to hold a meeting is a harbinger of doom?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 30, 2019, 08:22:07 PM
Everton - a smaller club than us? Really?
I've always seen us pretty much as equals
They have taken a bold and expensive step to ensure they stay in the Premier League and also at a time when they are looking to build a state of art stadium next to the Mersey - relegation would  have a huge impact on the club as it will with the Villa - there are no guarantees a new manager could get this squad away from the drop zone as there are no signs of Smith appearing confident enough to get us up the table
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 30, 2019, 08:32:15 PM
Our European Cup > their Cup Winners Cup
Our seven titles < their nine
Our seven FA Cups > their five
Our five League Cups > their zero.

So we win, overall, I reckon.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LukeJames on December 30, 2019, 08:33:35 PM
For all I've said about needing to make a change, I've never wanted a Villa manager to succeed as badly as this.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2019, 08:37:13 PM
Our European Cup > their Cup Winners Cup
Our seven titles < their nine
Our seven FA Cups > their five
Our five League Cups > their zero.

So we win, overall, I reckon.

They're like us, if all the colour was drained from us. Their support, not quite as good in numbers and not in the same galaxy with noise. The whiny moaning fuckers "hand ball, hand ball, off side, off side!" Eeeeeerh.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 30, 2019, 08:39:08 PM
I do feel some sympathy with them. Imagine if we had roughly the same level of success, but Blose had moved into Wellington Road when we left and won millions of trophies since.

Doesn't bear thinking about.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 30, 2019, 08:57:51 PM
Our European Cup > their Cup Winners Cup
Our seven titles < their nine
Our seven FA Cups > their five
Our five League Cups > their zero.

So we win, overall, I reckon.

They're like us, if all the colour was drained from us. Their support, not quite as good in numbers and not in the same galaxy with noise. The whiny moaning fuckers "hand ball, hand ball, off side, off side!" Eeeeeerh.
oh dear :(
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2019, 09:09:54 PM
Yeah, oh dear everytime I go to that derelict dump that is Goodison, the only ground I've ever been in the upper tier of and had to duck to see, bizarre, where it's a constant hum of moaning and whining. You might get an Everton, Everton, Everton after they score. Maybe a know your history. Maybe. Half heartedly.

It's not just that their support is shit, it's so incredibly fucking irritating.

Their fans are absolute shite, probably the worse numbers to noise ratio that ever visits Villa Park. Maybe it's what comes from being the 2nd club. That inherent inferiority complex.

Still, at least I'm only 33 so dont have the experience of hearing "Everton are white, Everton are white" to add to the shit list.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 30, 2019, 09:12:57 PM
I do feel some sympathy with them. Imagine if we had roughly the same level of success, but Blose had moved into Wellington Road when we left and won millions of trophies since.

Doesn't bear thinking about.
They are known as   "bitter blues" and do mirror our neighbours in many ways .
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on December 31, 2019, 07:15:39 AM
Smith's last stand tomorrow, lose and he must go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on December 31, 2019, 07:36:27 AM
I dint see how he survives if we lose tomorrow.  He cant even say he lost to good sides. Some of the worst in the league. He likes to remind us "he won a league cup game that everyone forgets about"

Embrassing for him to even mention that game against liverpools under 19s.

I stress again how does he survive he would have lost to Southampton, watford and burnley should he fail to take anything tomorrow.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: alanclare on December 31, 2019, 07:42:06 AM
How much would the Club have to pay him in order to ďsackĒ him?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on December 31, 2019, 08:01:16 AM
It looks like Smith won't be gone until a new manager is ready to take over.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 31, 2019, 03:40:42 PM
Yeah, oh dear everytime I go to that derelict dump that is Goodison, the only ground I've ever been in the upper tier of and had to duck to see, bizarre, where it's a constant hum of moaning and whining. You might get an Everton, Everton, Everton after they score. Maybe a know your history. Maybe. Half heartedly.

It's not just that their support is shit, it's so incredibly fucking irritating.

Their fans are absolute shite, probably the worse numbers to noise ratio that ever visits Villa Park. Maybe it's what comes from being the 2nd club. That inherent inferiority complex.

Still, at least I'm only 33 so dont have the experience of hearing "Everton are white, Everton are white" to add to the shit list.

I take it you are not very keen on Everton then ? :)
Having lived and worked on Merseyside for 25 years now I`ve generally found their  fans;  decent, knowledgeable about the game, respectful of the Villa
and particularly bitter towards their rivals ;)
Lets face all clubs have their fair share of knob heads amongst their fan base Ö. Villa included
Hopefully the New Year brings us good fortune and happiness Ö.. and who knows, maybe  3 points at a silenced Goodison :)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on December 31, 2019, 05:02:44 PM
Under Carlo Ancelotti, Bayern players arranged their own training. Even if there was a players meeting; so what?

Yes, I don't get why the players caring enough to hold a meeting is a harbinger of doom?



Agreed. I'd rather hear this than think they don't give a toss.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Dougs Socks on December 31, 2019, 06:43:31 PM
Whatever your views of John Percy, and no doubt its been touched on today, but this is where i sit. 8)

[url][https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/12/31/aston-villa-prepare-make-or-break-month-seek-avoid-disastrous/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw/url]


Well worth the read.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on December 31, 2019, 07:01:25 PM
Article available on Newsnow.  Quite a good one without saying anything that we didn't already know to be fair.  Percy is saying two players will be joining but doesn't say who.  Pressure on Dean, concerns about Trezeguet and El Ghazi etc.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: andyh on December 31, 2019, 07:06:29 PM
How does he know the club is unhappy with the performance of certain individuals?
Leaks ?

Is it a slippy slope, publicly blaming players and possibly using diversion tactics?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 31, 2019, 08:06:51 PM
Our European Cup > their Cup Winners Cup
Our seven titles < their nine
Our seven FA Cups > their five
Our five League Cups > their zero.

So we win, overall, I reckon.

They're like us, if all the colour was drained from us. Their support, not quite as good in numbers and not in the same galaxy with noise. The whiny moaning fuckers "hand ball, hand ball, off side, off side!" Eeeeeerh.

Totally agree.

Awful support.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 31, 2019, 08:07:59 PM
If anyone wants to read it in full I posted it in the where did it all go wrong thread.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on December 31, 2019, 09:08:47 PM
Smith's last stand tomorrow, lose and he must go.

In your view.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: berneboy on December 31, 2019, 10:02:35 PM
For all I've said about needing to make a change, I've never wanted a Villa manager to succeed as badly as this.
Same here.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Fred Crump on January 01, 2020, 01:08:07 AM
Címon Deano and the boys , do it for us ! UTV !!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ad@m on January 01, 2020, 12:13:52 PM

Smith's last stand tomorrow, lose and he must go.

He wont.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: GarTomas on January 01, 2020, 01:29:41 PM
Lock the thread if that 1st half is the turning point of the season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 01, 2020, 02:40:39 PM
My apologies Dean.  You have now set the bar, please maintain it.  Bring a few players in too.  Great win today and I am glad to be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Davkaus on January 01, 2020, 04:24:21 PM
It's all gone quiet over there...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 01, 2020, 04:28:57 PM
I did not think there was any coming back from Watford, but he has and that was a great result under the circumstances.
We need this to be a start not a blip.

Huge selection decisions coming up for the cup games.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2020, 04:28:59 PM
It's all gone quiet over there...

Today was an excellent first half, but not a great second. We did well to win so credit is due. But let's not suddenly suggest we are somehow cured. This has to be sustained and we are seeing sides all around us picking up points and against sides higher in the table. Something we've not been able to do this season. So Dean Smith has a long way to go. He's clearly not going to get fired any time soon.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on January 01, 2020, 05:31:02 PM
it just shows you that all managers look better when they have better players on the pitch playing in a correct formation

who'd have thought
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Pete3206 on January 01, 2020, 05:46:03 PM
It's all gone quiet over there...

Really Davkaus? Remember writing this after Watford?
Quote
3 points from 3 games against the other teams in the bottom 4?

Nah. Thanks for last season Deano, but you've got to go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2020, 05:49:48 PM
Delighted for him and us, hopefully he's learned that having more than one formation is a good idea.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on January 01, 2020, 06:21:02 PM
I like Smith and want him turn it round

but can we get someone in just to do the half time talks
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 01, 2020, 06:24:52 PM
As I said on the match thread, well done Dean. I questioned him but today, 1st half especially we were very good and a huge 3 points. All I can comment on is what I see on the pitch. Well done Dean great result, hope it continues UTV
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on January 01, 2020, 06:45:31 PM
I hate threads like this. A sign of what modern football has become. You win some games, you lose some - why should that automatically mean sack him? The game has become so much about the short-term that we forget what had happened, last season people were saying the job is too big for him when we got battered by Wigan etc and he cane through. Maybe, just maybe, heíll do enough this season too. At present, weíre on course for 38 points which is usually enough to stay up. At the beginning of the season we said staying up is enough. However, because a few games havenít gone to plan itís ĎSmith out?í Christ.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2020, 07:06:44 PM
We'd taken 4 points from 30 and just been outplayed by the only 3 sides that were below us, leaving us in the bottom 3. It wasn't just that we were losing, it was how bad a side we were looking.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 01, 2020, 07:13:51 PM
At the beginning of the season we said staying up is enough. However, because a few games havenít gone to plan itís ĎSmith out?í Christ.

I hate posts like this. ĎWeí said nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 01, 2020, 07:35:27 PM
I did not think there was any coming back from Watford, but he has and that was a great result under the circumstances.
We need this to be a start not a blip.

Huge selection decisions coming up for the cup games.
Smith definitely played " the get out of jail card" today and will be backed with transfer funds this window-
As for the Cup games .......do we really want to risk Grealish and Mings ?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 01, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
Rest players in a semi final?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: algy on January 01, 2020, 07:43:05 PM
Rest players in a semi final?
It's at best/worst 3 extra games. I'd be more inclined to sacrifice the FA Cup if the number of games was really an issue ...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on January 01, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
We will rest loads of players at Fulham and go fairly full strength against Leicester, I expect.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 01, 2020, 07:47:13 PM
Rest players in a semi final?
What do you consider more important - retaining Premier League status or getting to the final of the Caribao Cup?
I want us to win every game and a Wembley final would be great but I think the risk of losing The likes of Grealish and Mings too high  a price to pay - just my opinion like ;)
Unless of course we loan or sign adequate back up this transfer window
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 01, 2020, 07:48:05 PM
I would tend to agree with that. Hopefully see a few of the U23s given an opportunity.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: four fornicholl on January 01, 2020, 07:50:24 PM
Rest players in a semi final?
Never
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2020, 07:52:29 PM
I agree, I reckon it will be mainly our 3rd string at Fulham, pretty much full strength for the first leg against Leicester, how that goes will dictate what side we put out in the second leg.

And it's not like it's some binary decision between competing in a cup or league survival.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on January 01, 2020, 07:54:02 PM
We will rest loads of players at Fulham and go fairly full strength against Leicester, I expect.

I would hope that is the case. You don't rest players for cup semi finals. But the third round of the FA Cup is a different matter when we desperately need league points.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on January 01, 2020, 07:55:15 PM
At the beginning of the season we said staying up is enough. However, because a few games havenít gone to plan itís ĎSmith out?í Christ.

I hate posts like this. ĎWeí said nothing of the sort.

Okay, I was generalising. What was the aim?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on January 01, 2020, 07:57:20 PM
Although what team that comes up thinks that staying up first season shouldnít be the aim? Anything above that is surely a bonus?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 01, 2020, 08:00:12 PM
We've got to the semi-final of the League Cup by virtue of playing decent strength teams against Brighton, Wolves and Liverpool.  Having done that to then put out a weakened team against Leicester is the sort of nonsense I thought we'd left behind in Moscow.  In my view, we play our best team in the first leg and then depending on the outcome take a view when it comes to the return.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on January 01, 2020, 08:05:47 PM
Iíd be staggered if we donít play a full strength team against Leicester. Itís a semi final for a start and they have been playing strong teams through out the competition.

Imagine it will be a second string team (and possibly some U23 due to the number of injuries) against Fulham.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 01, 2020, 08:19:41 PM
Rest players in a semi final?
What do you consider more important - retaining Premier League status or getting to the final of the Caribao Cup?
I want us to win every game and a Wembley final would be great but I think the risk of losing The likes of Grealish and Mings too high  a price to pay - just my opinion like ;)
Unless of course we loan or sign adequate back up this transfer window

I've been waiting 24 years for a trophy and I'm 33. I'd say resting players in a semi final is unforgivable.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 01, 2020, 08:24:39 PM
We've all been waiting 24 years for a trophy!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 01, 2020, 08:26:15 PM
Don't devalue the Peace Cup...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 01, 2020, 08:31:45 PM
We've all been waiting 24 years for a trophy!

I meant it only for the context of the years I've been ticking on this rock. Two trophies in my formative years. If only I knew better...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mike on January 01, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
At the beginning of the season we said staying up is enough. However, because a few games havenít gone to plan itís ĎSmith out?í Christ.

I hate posts like this. ĎWeí said nothing of the sort.

Okay, I was generalising. What was the aim?

I think the disquiet came from a truly disastrous run of games followed by a teamsheet that was as baffling as it was atrocious. I am even more bemused and disturbed than before this game. Why the fuck Lansbury, why the fuck this, that and the other... delighted we've won, but fuck me what does that mean, did he save us last year or was it Jack and a giant stroke of luck.. after all he had that dreadful spell while Jack was out. We all WANT Deans to succeed and he's here to stay now so let's hope January is kind to us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 01, 2020, 09:02:50 PM
We've all been waiting 24 years for a trophy!

I meant it only for the context of the years I've been ticking on this rock. Two trophies in my formative years. If only I knew better...

Yeah same.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on January 01, 2020, 09:05:18 PM
We will rest loads of players at Fulham and go fairly full strength against Leicester, I expect.

I would hope that is the case. You don't rest players for cup semi finals. But the third round of the FA Cup is a different matter when we desperately need league points.

Plus Fulham will be resting loads as they care more about solidifying their top six spot.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2020, 09:56:19 PM
We lifted a trophy in May
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ad@m on January 01, 2020, 10:29:18 PM
We lifted a trophy in May

Best loser trophies don't count.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 01, 2020, 10:29:56 PM
We lifted a trophy in May

Best loser trophies don't count.

We weren't even best loser.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2020, 10:41:29 PM
We lifted a trophy in May

Best loser trophies don't count.

Excuse me? It was awarded to celebrate us becoming Champion of the Losers. How dare you turn your nose up at that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: passport1 on January 01, 2020, 10:51:33 PM
Fair play to him he surprised me today. Nevertheless even Lambert used to pull off the occasional surprise so I won't get the bunting out just yet.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 01, 2020, 10:52:45 PM
Lambert? When?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: rob_bridge on January 01, 2020, 11:12:37 PM
Lambert? When?

The tikka takka effort in the 2 months before he got sacked??

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Dante Lavelli on January 02, 2020, 04:45:22 AM
Currently voted 'No' but only just and mainly because there isnít an outstanding candidate to replace him.

Iíd hope that the club a discretely lining up options starting with people like poch and working down the list.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on January 02, 2020, 06:05:20 AM
Hasn't Lambert just got a new 4 year contract with Les Garcons Tracteur?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sdwbvf on January 02, 2020, 07:37:10 AM
We've all been waiting 24 years for a trophy!

I meant it only for the context of the years I've been ticking on this rock. Two trophies in my formative years. If only I knew better...

I know the feeling. I'm 46, the equivalent for me was 81 and 82. My dad introduced me to the thrills of Villa support during 80/81. I thought it would all be like this, then a few short years later it was Plymouth Argyle and millwall on the fixture list!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on January 02, 2020, 11:09:14 AM
Pleasantly surprised with the formation and team yesterday - and the result of course. I had voted out, mostly due to how poor we looked at Norwich despite winning and then the abject performance at Watford and baffling team selection. Needless to say I would be very happy to be proven wrong like last season!

This formation makes better use of the squad (we have plenty of decent defenders but a dearth of quality at fullback ad on the wing. It also allows our midfield to get further up the pitch where Grealish, McGinn and I suspect Luiz are more effective.

Hopefully this is a sign that Smith will be more open to changing tactics, and formation. Now just need to see him use subs better.



Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: WarszaVillan82 on January 02, 2020, 11:25:00 AM
We've all been waiting 24 years for a trophy!

I meant it only for the context of the years I've been ticking on this rock. Two trophies in my formative years. If only I knew better...

I know the feeling. I'm 46, the equivalent for me was 81 and 82. My dad introduced me to the thrills of Villa support during 80/81. I thought it would all be like this, then a few short years later it was Plymouth Argyle and millwall on the fixture list!

Aged 11 we win the league and then at 16 we're relegated. Even during the European Cup winning season we lost our manager and gates fell to the lowest probably in my whole time following Villa.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 02, 2020, 11:35:20 AM
Lambert? When?

He invented the backwards goal kick Leej, can't believe you'd disrespect it
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Smithy on January 02, 2020, 12:23:07 PM
Lose to Burnley as I think we will and I expect the last few wavering fans will change their mind. Smith has lost it completely, and I canít see what he can do to turn things round.

I think I'm in that camp. I said before the Man Utd game, that we had a few very tough games, and then a few 'easier' ones, but if we had less than 20 points after Burnley we'd be in trouble (I thought we'd be around 22/23 and a couple of places above the relegation zone by that point).

For me, the biggest concern isn't the points tally, we are after all only a couple of points from relative safety. It's that our performances appear to be getting worse, while those of the teams around us (or who WERE around us) are getting better.

I'd hate to see Smith sacked, as it's an admission that appointing one of our own has failed. It's like when a young player comes through, starts brightly, but then clearly isn't up to the job. It hurts more.  But I think anything less than a convincing win against Burnley and time is up.  The form of the teams around us means we have to change something, and if Smith can't change it on the pitch, then the club have to change it off it.


Happy to say I was wrong above. Clearly Smith can change things on the pitch, both tactically, and in terms of performances. After Watford I wasn't so sure that was possible, but clearly it is.  I hope to see more of the same in the coming weeks, and I also hope that I get to look back on my publicly doubting him with the same level of embarrassment that I look upon some of my previous haircuts.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mallo on January 02, 2020, 12:28:40 PM
Fair play to him for changing it at Burnley and a good reaction. As long as this new found ability continues I think he'll ride the storm. Particularly if we get points at Brighton and Watford, which we will need to.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The Edge on January 02, 2020, 01:28:01 PM
Lambert? When?

He invented the backwards goal kick Leej, can't believe you'd disrespect it
Ahh yes the backward goal kick in front of the Holte. I think it was Guzan. Who can forget that monumental game changing moment?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nelly on January 02, 2020, 02:13:43 PM
Deeply dispiriting thread. Smith in.

It doesn't seem so long ago that we out-played Man U at Old Trafford. A few bad results later and the manager must go? Respectfully, does he not deserve any support from us? Do we just rail against him at the first sign of hardship?

I feel like we as a fanbase are conditioned to this response after ten plus years of failure.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Allan C on January 02, 2020, 03:46:35 PM
Deeply dispiriting thread. Smith in.

It doesn't seem so long ago that we out-played Man U at Old Trafford. A few bad results later and the manager must go? Respectfully, does he not deserve any support from us? Do we just rail against him at the first sign of hardship?

I feel like we as a fanbase are conditioned to this response after ten plus years of failure.
Absolutely 100% this
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on January 02, 2020, 03:52:26 PM
Deeply dispiriting thread. Smith in.

It doesn't seem so long ago that we out-played Man U at Old Trafford. A few bad results later and the manager must go? Respectfully, does he not deserve any support from us? Do we just rail against him at the first sign of hardship?

I feel like we as a fanbase are conditioned to this response after ten plus years of failure.

Until Burnley he'd been failing all season in virtually the same ways each time, and we were looking very very bad indeed. Yesterday was fantastic, but also out of the blue, without much evidence that it would happen before it happened. Nothing like being happy to be wrong, of course!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nelly on January 02, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
We will all see it differently of course, but for me, until we were genuinely outclassed by Leicester, we had shown real fight and some quality in most of our games.

Losing to relegation rivals is always going to be hard but this is the first genuine tricky spot that I can remember us having, other than that first run of games when Smith was first appointed. That's why I am stunned to see this thread and some of the responses herein.

Do all football teams always turn up and give everything in every single game? Or do teams generally have good spells and bad? I think it's incredible unrealistic to expect us to be brilliant in every game.

I genuinely don't mean any disrespect here. I've been posting/ghosting on this forum since around 2005 and I know most of your screen names very well. I'm probably the worst fan on this forum too. Maybe I'm wrong but I think we need to get behind the team and manager; sing us to safety.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 02, 2020, 04:06:26 PM
I guess the issue around yesterday is whether those who wanted him out, still do, or whether there's a virtual stay of execution?

And if there's a pause, how long does it last? We could easily lose at Fulham, then to Leicester, and be back to the same discussion.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 02, 2020, 04:06:27 PM
Deeply dispiriting thread. Smith in.

It doesn't seem so long ago that we out-played Man U at Old Trafford. A few bad results later and the manager must go? Respectfully, does he not deserve any support from us? Do we just rail against him at the first sign of hardship?

I feel like we as a fanbase are conditioned to this response after ten plus years of failure.

Why does one draw (note, not even a win) against the worst Man U side in living memory outrank all of the other terrible results?  I still think he's not a good enough manager to keep us up.  Hope I'm wrong, because relegation would be a disaster.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nelly on January 02, 2020, 04:12:03 PM
I just think the truly terrible results have come in the last few games, prior to this bad run, I didn't think we were doing too badly. Personally I was looking forwards to January, strengthening and being re-invigorated.

There's no question we have utterly thrown away a glut of points this season but with less naivety from the players, maybe we wouldn't have? And against well established teams we have played extremely well this season - far better than I expected us too.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 02, 2020, 04:18:56 PM
I just think the truly terrible results have come in the last few games, prior to this bad run, I didn't think we were doing too badly. Personally I was looking forwards to January, strengthening and being re-invigorated.

There's no question we have utterly thrown away a glut of points this season but with less naivety from the players, maybe we wouldn't have? And against well established teams we have played extremely well this season - far better than I expected us too.

The manager was naive also, though, and that's been the primary criticism. We could all see persevering with the same formation and the same misfiring striker game after game was costing us, so it seemed almost wilful. How did it take him so long to see the same thing? Effectively he waited until his job came under threat (however slight) to do something about it. Lo and behold, the players looked reinvigorated in a new system.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nelly on January 02, 2020, 04:25:18 PM
I do think Smith has tried to vary things before this last game though. I didn't like it one bit but he tried to put Grealish out wide in an effort to re-shape our midfield. I think credit to him for being ballsy enough to try that, and then when it evidently didn't work, he's changed it again.

With regards to Wesley, I've seen so many posts (Edit: on social media) along the lines of, "So that's why Kodjia hasn't been getting a game...". Yes he's been isolated and we wanted more from him, but this team was thrown together at the start of the season and are still learning.

Mistakes will happen and there were always going to be some spanking en route but I'm actually so proud of how Villa played this season. We've had a serious wobble and it's affected us badly but that's why they need us all the more.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 02, 2020, 04:31:17 PM
I guess the issue around yesterday is whether those who wanted him out, still do, or whether there's a virtual stay of execution?

And if there's a pause, how long does it last? We could easily lose at Fulham, then to Leicester, and be back to the same discussion.
I have sent the jury out again.
I am not that concerned about the Cup Games because our priority has to be to stay in the league and we are now 3 First Team players out.
I hope he is able to turn it around, there is not going to be any change in January which means he has the rest of the season any way.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 02, 2020, 04:43:46 PM
I guess the issue around yesterday is whether those who wanted him out, still do, or whether there's a virtual stay of execution?

And if there's a pause, how long does it last? We could easily lose at Fulham, then to Leicester, and be back to the same discussion.
I have sent the jury out again.
I am not that concerned about the Cup Games because our priority has to be to stay in the league and we are now 3 First Team players out.
I hope he is able to turn it around, there is not going to be any change in January which means he has the rest of the season any way.

The proof is in the pudding.

You are right, he has been backed by Purslow now and will be given the season.

If we go down, having spent the guts of £150m on player transfers, with quality like McGinn and Grealish already in our side, it will be a huge failure. No buts about it, we have enough to stay up in this league, and Smith will obviously be judged on whether he can achieve that or not.

I said at the start of the season, before any real sense of doubt began to set in for me, that we'd finish around 16th. If we still do that, happy days, I'll eat my own words of criticism and we'll all be the better for another opportunity to properly strengthen our squad and have another go at the Premier League next year. If we go down, we'll be left ruing the fact that we didn't make a change after losing two six-pointers v Watford and Southampton.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ad@m on January 02, 2020, 05:37:26 PM
Deeply dispiriting thread. Smith in.

It doesn't seem so long ago that we out-played Man U at Old Trafford. A few bad results later and the manager must go? Respectfully, does he not deserve any support from us? Do we just rail against him at the first sign of hardship?

I feel like we as a fanbase are conditioned to this response after ten plus years of failure.

Why does one draw (note, not even a win) against the worst Man U side in living memory outrank all of the other terrible results?  I still think he's not a good enough manager to keep us up.  Hope I'm wrong, because relegation would be a disaster.

Based on what?

Even if we did go down, we've got a better squad than last season, likely with a better wage structure due to the recruitment policy since Smith joined, we reset the clock on FFP so have greater headroom for the next 3 years, and we've got gazillionaire owners with bottomless funds.

The only potentially disastrous aspect would be losing Grealish but as long as we get what he's worth, the money could be reinvested to make us better overall, as happened when Spurs lost Bale.

Going down would obviously not be ideal but we'd be a world away from where we were at the start of last season as a club.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 02, 2020, 07:28:15 PM

I said at the start of the season, before any real sense of doubt began to set in for me, that we'd finish around 16th. If we still do that, happy days, I'll eat my own words of criticism and we'll all be the better for another opportunity to properly strengthen our squad and have another go at the Premier League next year. If we go down, we'll be left ruing the fact that we didn't make a change after losing two six-pointers v Watford and Southampton.

This is what I don't understand. Most of us would take 16th /17th. We were 1/2 place/s lower half way through the season and people wanted him sacked.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 02, 2020, 07:37:29 PM

I said at the start of the season, before any real sense of doubt began to set in for me, that we'd finish around 16th. If we still do that, happy days, I'll eat my own words of criticism and we'll all be the better for another opportunity to properly strengthen our squad and have another go at the Premier League next year. If we go down, we'll be left ruing the fact that we didn't make a change after losing two six-pointers v Watford and Southampton.

This is what I don't understand. Most of us would take 16th /17th. We were 1/2 place/s lower half way through the season and people wanted him sacked.

1. There was a sense in the first 12 games or so that we had squandered points through mediocre in-game management. The Leicester game was very poor: t seemed strange that Mings didn't go off when injured and 30 seconds later Vardy skins him for the opener. Then the non-performance in the two six-pointers over Christmas. The criticism was warranted and it did mirror the dreadful run that nearly did for us last year.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 02, 2020, 07:49:36 PM

I said at the start of the season, before any real sense of doubt began to set in for me, that we'd finish around 16th. If we still do that, happy days, I'll eat my own words of criticism and we'll all be the better for another opportunity to properly strengthen our squad and have another go at the Premier League next year. If we go down, we'll be left ruing the fact that we didn't make a change after losing two six-pointers v Watford and Southampton.

This is what I don't understand. Most of us would take 16th /17th. We were 1/2 place/s lower half way through the season and people wanted him sacked.

1. There was a sense in the first 12 games or so that we had squandered points through mediocre in-game management. The Leicester game was very poor: t seemed strange that Mings didn't go off when injured and 30 seconds later Vardy skins him for the opener. Then the non-performance in the two six-pointers over Christmas. The criticism was warranted and it did mirror the dreadful run that nearly did for us last year.

Agree with this. We did potentially fuck up our season losing to Southampton and Watford. To not bring home a single point against two teams who were beneath us and mired in the relegation zone at the time was simply appalling. A decent win against Burnley doesn't take the edge off sinking gradually into the mire ourselves. If we stay out, great, but that's a very big if, particularly with the lack of striking options and potentially having to play a 3rd or 4th choice keeper for several months.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Taylor on January 03, 2020, 09:53:11 AM

I said at the start of the season, before any real sense of doubt began to set in for me, that we'd finish around 16th. If we still do that, happy days, I'll eat my own words of criticism and we'll all be the better for another opportunity to properly strengthen our squad and have another go at the Premier League next year. If we go down, we'll be left ruing the fact that we didn't make a change after losing two six-pointers v Watford and Southampton.

This is what I don't understand. Most of us would take 16th /17th. We were 1/2 place/s lower half way through the season and people wanted him sacked.


1. There was a sense in the first 12 games or so that we had squandered points through mediocre in-game management. The Leicester game was very poor: t seemed strange that Mings didn't go off when injured and 30 seconds later Vardy skins him for the opener. Then the non-performance in the two six-pointers over Christmas. The criticism was warranted and it did mirror the dreadful run that nearly did for us last year.

Agree with this. We did potentially fuck up our season losing to Southampton and Watford. To not bring home a single point against two teams who were beneath us and mired in the relegation zone at the time was simply appalling. A decent win against Burnley doesn't take the edge off sinking gradually into the mire ourselves. If we stay out, great, but that's a very big if, particularly with the lack of striking options and potentially having to play a 3rd or 4th choice keeper for several months.
Not trying to make excuses, but subsequent results have shown that it was the worst time to play Southampton and Watford. Both seem to be on a bit of a roll.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: OzVilla on January 03, 2020, 10:28:57 AM
I think Norwich are nailed on and I think Bournemouth are sinking fast, I can really see them going too now.

Think itíll be nip and tuck between Soton, Watford, West Ham, Villa, and Newcastle. Everton, Brighton and Burnley have decent players and organisation in defence and attack to get too dragged in I reckon.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on January 03, 2020, 10:35:25 AM
Agreed. With the confirmation of the injuries, itís time for Smith and the scouting to earn their pennies. If we stay up with the injuries weíve got, itíll be an achievement. I donít necessarily agree with the phrase Ďmust winí in December - whoís to say we wonít beat one of the top six in the second half of the season, for example? So losing to Southampton and Watford was fairly devastating, but not akin to certain relegation.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 03, 2020, 10:54:15 AM
Agreed. With the confirmation of the injuries, itís time for Smith and the scouting to earn their pennies. If we stay up with the injuries weíve got, itíll be an achievement. I donít necessarily agree with the phrase Ďmust winí in December - whoís to say we wonít beat one of the top six in the second half of the season, for example? So losing to Southampton and Watford was fairly devastating, but not akin to certain relegation.

But if we're relegated by 2-3 points, and let's say Watford stay up, then we'll obviously look back and rue that loss. Of course it's a marathon and not a sprint, but we're hardly going to think "If only we hadn't lost to Man City" when there was a far more telling and damaging result, or pair of results, back in December.

Survival in the PL isn't really rocket science - beat the teams beneath you and you're generally fine.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: OzVilla on January 03, 2020, 10:59:20 AM
Fortunately weíve Watford in a few weeks weíre we can put it right. Take the points back off them. I think Newcastle will sink like a stone now too.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2020, 12:51:00 PM
Fortunately weíve Watford in a few weeks weíre we can put it right. Take the points back off them.
SadLy this sort of thinking has shown not to  be apposite .
Itís a massive game for us because it is one of a very few fixtures at home against lower league opposition.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 03, 2020, 12:52:48 PM
Fortunately weíve Watford in a few weeks weíre we can put it right. Take the points back off them. I think Newcastle will sink like a stone now too.

Im glad that games soon because we really to avenge that loss. Was totally unacceptable
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2020, 12:54:44 PM
Fortunately weíve Watford in a few weeks weíre we can put it right. Take the points back off them. I think Newcastle will sink like a stone now too.

Im glad that games soon because we really to avenge that loss. Was totally unacceptable
I wish the game was after the bubble bursts, they are on a hell of a run.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 04, 2020, 07:07:42 PM
Code: [Select]
huiAnother poor team performance, another defeat followed by another odd post match summary by Smith .... survival in the league is now the priority - stuff the League Cup.
He is failing  to get a tune out of many of the squad players which is worrying .... I'm not sure he is up to this and am doubting whether he can be afforded  the opportunity to bring in the necessary bodies to help us get out of this mess .....I'm all for giving managers full support and time but I think he looks "out of his depth" even against opposition from  a lower league .... however it looks like the owners are placing their faith in him ....hopefully that's not misplaced or ill judged
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 04, 2020, 07:13:32 PM
Agreed, Clive and believe Dean will be gone in the summer.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: eamonn on January 04, 2020, 07:21:52 PM
He got a bit prickly when asked about both Villa and his dire recent record in the FA Cup. He mentioned knocking out Chelsea with Brentford but as a Villa fan I'd expect him to even give an easy stock-answer like "I've wanted to see us win the Cup since I was a youngster, it's the only competition I've not seen us win and it hurts that we've gone out without a fight."

He kind of shrugs and tries to defend himself/his team when asked a challenging question. Contrast with the other manager/fan of a new PL team Chris Wilder who makes no excuses and fronts-up when his players have not been good enough. I wish Smith had a bit of that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: eamonn on January 04, 2020, 07:23:58 PM
Agreed, Clive and believe Dean will be gone in the summer.

Dunno, Purslow is in love with him and presumably he has the ear of our owners.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 04, 2020, 07:27:33 PM
Survival is all that matters and they probably all concede that the players that were brought in were to do just that. Realistically we couldnít buy the quality we wanted all in one go. And if it went pear shaped it would have cost an absolute fortune to fix. So they bought what they thought just enough and you can see combined with a lot of what we had already it isnít sufficient to compete in 3 competitions. And thatís before you consider our injuries. The board clearly believes in Smith right now and they will provide him every opportunity to keep us in the PL.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2020, 07:33:47 PM
Itís a huge ask TV.
We are seriously light going into the second half with the added distraction of LC semis coming up.
Today I think has proved that there is very little back up in the squad to rely upon.
We have to find 3 First team quality players and hope that we do not suffer any more injuries.
Oh and Smith finally dumps 4 3 3
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 04, 2020, 07:34:19 PM
At the next board meeting:

(https://thenamiracleoccurs.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/miracle2.jpg)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 04, 2020, 07:37:05 PM
At the next board meeting:

(https://thenamiracleoccurs.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/miracle2.jpg)
Lol - nice one Leeg :)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 04, 2020, 07:42:27 PM
Agreed. With the confirmation of the injuries, itís time for Smith and the scouting to earn their pennies. If we stay up with the injuries weíve got, itíll be an achievement. I donít necessarily agree with the phrase Ďmust winí in December - whoís to say we wonít beat one of the top six in the second half of the season, for example? So losing to Southampton and Watford was fairly devastating, but not akin to certain relegation.

But if we're relegated by 2-3 points, and let's say Watford stay up, then we'll obviously look back and rue that loss. Of course it's a marathon and not a sprint, but we're hardly going to think "If only we hadn't lost to Man City" when there was a far more telling and damaging result, or pair of results, back in December.

Survival in the PL isn't really rocket science - beat the teams beneath you and you're generally fine.

Our xmas wasn't as bad as it could've been after Southampton. I thought we'd struggle to beat Norwich (on the balance of play we certainly didn't deserve the three points) and I thought there was little chance of winning at Burnley but that was one game where we rose to the challenge superbly.

6/12 so better than many teams like Newcastle who look like the team who'll slide back towards bottom 3 in next month.

More worrying is of course the performances. We were shambolic in the first three and looked a proper relegation team.

The key for me now is we looked good at Burnley in a different formation so that has to stay for the next 3-4 games and then see what the state of things are at beginning of February.

We really don't have a choice whether to make signings or not, it is a must given the squad/first 11 is much weaker than the one we started December with adding McGinn as long term injured.

1 point after Southampton and we'd be on 16 points now and a fair bit adrift so the situation could be much worse.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: eamonn on January 04, 2020, 09:09:58 PM
It is weird alright. For the first time in the top flight from years of following Villa we are not draw specialists. Games we should draw on the balance of play there tends to be a decisive outcome. In theory we could have gone undefeated in December and still only won 6 points.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2020, 05:50:18 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 12, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.


And replace with whom?  Heís here until the end of the season and he absolutely should be too. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 12, 2020, 06:06:31 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.

You said in the match thread today that he absolutely wouldn't be - regardless of results - so is there really any point?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2020, 06:07:57 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.


And replace with whom?  Heís here until the end of the season and he absolutely should be too. 

Why should he absolutely be here until the end of the season? We look fucking atrocious. Itís fucking 6-0 as I type this. The manager is not up to this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: richrunner on January 12, 2020, 06:08:18 PM
This season promised so much but we look so weak and woefully underprepared. We can't even do the simple stuff right and have a manager that is both out of his depth and stubborn. The premier league is ruthless but it doesnt seem that staying up against all costs is the priority here. On the terrible run we are on, any other manager would have been for a walk around the rose garden by now.

I'd be amazed if he's given the sack though. The 4 year contract was a sign and the fact the board didnt pot him after Watford means he's here to stay even if/when we are relegated.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2020, 06:08:39 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.

You said in the match thread today that he absolutely wouldn't be - regardless of results - so is there really any point?

I did say that. That doesnít mean I share that position. I categorically donít.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 12, 2020, 06:10:03 PM
Gotta go Dean, you're losing all the support you had.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 12, 2020, 06:11:17 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.

You said in the match thread today that he absolutely wouldn't be - regardless of results - so is there really any point?

I did say that. That doesnít mean I share that position. I categorically donít.

Fair enough. For what it's worth, I agree on both points, but I do feel it's a bit pointless as the club doesn't seem interested in a change.

Depressing times.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 12, 2020, 06:12:22 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.


And replace with whom?  Heís here until the end of the season and he absolutely should be too. 

Why should he absolutely be here until the end of the season? We look fucking atrocious. Itís fucking 6-0 as I type this. The manager is not up to this level.


Iíll tell you exactly why. Every single poster on here backed him at the start of the season. We should continue to get behind the team and manager in spite of this over reactionary nonsense. Outclassed by one of best sides in Europe and yeah, this stings, but sacking another manager is totally pointless
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2020, 06:15:04 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.


And replace with whom?  Heís here until the end of the season and he absolutely should be too. 

Why should he absolutely be here until the end of the season? We look fucking atrocious. Itís fucking 6-0 as I type this. The manager is not up to this level.


Iíll tell you exactly why. Every single poster on here backed him at the start of the season. We should continue to get behind the team and manager in spite of this over reactionary nonsense. Outclassed by one of best sides in Europe and yeah, this stings, but sacking another manager is totally pointless

He was rightly backed at the start of the season. He deserved all of it. But the situation now is far worse than any of us imagined it would be. Iím sorry I have no room for sentiment. This is business. If heís not up to it; Villa fan or not, he shouldnít be in charge of a football club at this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 12, 2020, 06:16:12 PM
Heís not good enough and the owners have fucked up by letting him relegate us. Weíre still run by idiots.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 12, 2020, 06:17:45 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.


And replace with whom?  Heís here until the end of the season and he absolutely should be too. 

Why should he absolutely be here until the end of the season? We look fucking atrocious. Itís fucking 6-0 as I type this. The manager is not up to this level.


Iíll tell you exactly why. Every single poster on here backed him at the start of the season. We should continue to get behind the team and manager in spite of this over reactionary nonsense. Outclassed by one of best sides in Europe and yeah, this stings, but sacking another manager is totally pointless

He was rightly backed at the start of the season. He deserved all of it. But the situation now is far worse than any of us imagined it would be. Iím sorry I have no room for sentiment. This is business. If heís not up to it; Villa fan or not, he shouldnít be in charge of a football club at this level.


We all want a successful football club. Chopping and changing managers every two seasons, where exactly has that got us?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wince on January 12, 2020, 06:19:43 PM
Wasnít the changing managers just not getting the right ones is the problem.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 12, 2020, 06:20:59 PM
No-one was calling for his head Wednesday night.

This has been a shocker today but it's only one game. Let's see what happens next couple of games. And signing a striker would be good. That won't be improved by not having a manager.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: aev on January 12, 2020, 06:21:45 PM
I reckon we would have been better off getting the Brentford scouts in instead of Suso.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 12, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Wasnít the changing managers just not getting the right ones is the problem.

We got the right one last season. Just a shame he does not seem to be the right one at this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 06:23:34 PM
No-one was calling for his head Wednesday night.

This has been a shocker today but it's only one game. Let's see what happens next couple of games. And signing a striker would be good. That won't be improved by not having a manager.

I'd probably agree with this.

I was more concerned by results like Southampton and Watford in terms of managerial change as ultimately they define our season more than today.

Today only showed we are lightyears away from being a competitive top 6 team again. Remember three months ago Watford had 8 put past them at Man. City and they look good to stay up now (albeit due to changing their manager).
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 12, 2020, 06:23:46 PM
Reaffirming my position on this. He needs to be fired.


And replace with whom?  Heís here until the end of the season and he absolutely should be too. 

Why should he absolutely be here until the end of the season? We look fucking atrocious. Itís fucking 6-0 as I type this. The manager is not up to this level.


Iíll tell you exactly why. Every single poster on here backed him at the start of the season. We should continue to get behind the team and manager in spite of this over reactionary nonsense. Outclassed by one of best sides in Europe and yeah, this stings, but sacking another manager is totally pointless

He was rightly backed at the start of the season. He deserved all of it. But the situation now is far worse than any of us imagined it would be. Iím sorry I have no room for sentiment. This is business. If heís not up to it; Villa fan or not, he shouldnít be in charge of a football club at this level.


We all want a successful football club. Chopping and changing managers every two seasons, where exactly has that got us?

We are being run properly these days though, whereas, for the last 10 years, we couldn't have selected a decent Manager if one walked up and slapped us.   It does seem somewhat disloyal to say I want Smith out, but I think he has lost these players and we are going down. Our goal difference is now fucked as well. We were under-prepared before we started the season and hindsight tells us that these signings are woeful.  Only Mings, Heaton and Grealish are good enough, even SJM has struggled to find his feet.  No excuse for not trying, not running, not tracking your opposite number.  They lack motivation and organisation, and that is down to Dean.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on January 12, 2020, 06:24:37 PM
We all want a successful football club. Chopping and changing managers every two seasons, where exactly has that got us?

It's keeping bad ones like Lambert for too long and picking bad ones that got us there. 2-3 decent signings and a new manager could save us. Keeping Dean will relegate us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 12, 2020, 06:26:08 PM
It's not the manager, our players are simply not good enough. El ghazi,  trez Luiz, taylor,Elmo,hologram, Angela, no where near good enogh
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: luke95 on January 12, 2020, 06:26:08 PM
Staying up was our only aim this season & We ain't relegated yet, & until we are we should back him all the way.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2020, 06:28:31 PM
Unless we sign a few players it won't matter who the manager is.

We fail to do the basics so often though that it makes you wonder what they do in training, feels like half the goals we've conceded have one of our players as an assist.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on January 12, 2020, 06:28:41 PM
It's not the manager, our players are simply not good enough. El ghazi,  trez Luiz, taylor,Elmo,hologram, Angela, no where near good enogh


He picks them and coaches them and must be involved in the transfer selections so the buck stops with the manager/head coach.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on January 12, 2020, 06:29:32 PM
I can't see him being sacked now. It's too late.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 12, 2020, 06:30:24 PM
I can't see him being sacked now. It's too late.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 06:31:29 PM
Unless we sign a few players it won't matter who the manager is.

We fail to do the basics so often though that it makes you wonder what they do in training, feels like half the goals we've conceded have one of our players as an assist.
Training not making any difference, unable to motivate his players, squad in a right old state.  I genuinely do think it matters who the manager is.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on January 12, 2020, 06:31:40 PM
Staying up was our only aim this season & We ain't relegated yet, & until we are we should back him all the way.

This.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on January 12, 2020, 06:32:16 PM
It was the team selection that guaranteed a hammering.

Two appalling fullbacks, no striker and Hourihane.

Hourihane should not start against good teams because he offers nothing.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
I can't see him being sacked now. It's too late.
Too late?  How do you mean?  I think the season is still salvageable.  But not under Smith.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 12, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
So lets just wait until relegation then change manager and have to sel mcginn grealish and mings.

No thanks make the change now get rid as he is out of hid depth at this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 06:36:10 PM
Villa in the last decade: regardless of owner, manager or players we look out of place in the top flight. I don't know what went wrong. We can't even fluke a decent mid-table season.

I genuinely thought we had broken that cycle. In hindsight, we got carried away because we had rich owners. We look a shambles at the moment and not enough players who are up for the fight.

Smith, it must be said, has struggled at this level but maybe there is something more fundamental holding us back?

I'm not angry tonight. I am sad. Very sad.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VillaAlways on January 12, 2020, 06:36:12 PM
Staying up was our only aim this season & We ain't relegated yet, & until we are we should back him all the way.
So staying up is our aim but he should only get the sack if weíre relegated?

See the problem ?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 06:36:17 PM
Heís no better than Lambert. Been found out completely at this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on January 12, 2020, 06:40:41 PM
I can't see him being sacked now. It's too late.
Too late?  How do you mean?  I think the season is still salvageable.  But not under Smith.

The season hinges on this transfer window. I just believe it's too late for a new manager too assess the squad, decide who he wants in and get them in. That's assuming we can get a new manager straight away.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 12, 2020, 06:41:03 PM
Staying up was our only aim this season & We ain't relegated yet, & until we are we should back him all the way.
So staying up is our aim but he should only get the sack if weíre relegated?

See the problem ?


Couldnt have said it better myself.

In the last 8 weeks spanked 4-1 by Leicester, 3-1 against Southampton, 3-0 Watford and now 6-1 against city.

Thats16 conceded and three scored. Pathetic and simply uncaccptable. Forget he is a villa fan its time for him to go.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 12, 2020, 06:48:32 PM
I can't see him being sacked now. It's too late.
Too late?  How do you mean?  I think the season is still salvageable.  But not under Smith.

The season hinges on this transfer window. I just believe it's too late for a new manager too assess the squad, decide who he wants in and get them in. That's assuming we can get a new manager straight away.
I think it is far too late to expect another manager to come in assess the squad and recruit in just two weeks- the owners and Purslow have made some odd decisions since promotion - e.g. the new contract for Smith and some poor signings - the team is not fit for purpose and Smith and Suso are responsible for that -
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: sickbeggar on January 12, 2020, 06:53:51 PM
Got us up with a squad that was clearly not really good enough. Splashed a fortune on punts because he realised that, but it was basically a band-aid on an open artery.  To me recruitment has been the problem with no-one really bought in with a premiership pedigree, so you could argue if he's spent the same amount on 5/6 premiership players instead of 10 plus hopeful punts we'd be doing better, but then you stick in injuries and we'd have been down to the bare bones. Personally i think he's earned the chance to turn it around because this side can still stay up and we can rebuild in the summer and dump some of the players clearly not good enough. I'm not against a new guy trying to keep us up but he's gonna have to do it with this squad and hope some of them find their feet in the premiership. End of the day, a good 15 or so of our squad don't look premiership players. Just like Norwich.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2020, 06:54:31 PM
I can't see him being sacked now. It's too late.
Too late?  How do you mean?  I think the season is still salvageable.  But not under Smith.

The season hinges on this transfer window. I just believe it's too late for a new manager too assess the squad, decide who he wants in and get them in. That's assuming we can get a new manager straight away.
I think it is far too late to expect another manager to come in assess the squad and recruit in just two weeks- the owners and Purslow have made some odd decisions since promotion - e.g. the new contract for Smith and some poor signings - the team is not fit for purpose and Smith and Suso are responsible for that -

Nigel Pearson did it in a couple of weeks. Heís hardly the second coming of Alex Ferguson or Bill Shankly.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 12, 2020, 06:56:53 PM
Smith aayjbg drinkwater did well. What a absolute fool
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 12, 2020, 06:58:03 PM
Smith aayjbg drinkwater did well. What a absolute fool

Are you only ever going to jump on Smiths back when we lose?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on January 12, 2020, 07:00:48 PM
I am totally, 100% in agreement with Risso.  Dean Smith is a carbon copy of Paul Lambert.  Like peas in a pod.  Stubborn, self opinionated, inflexible, unimaginative player crushers.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 12, 2020, 07:01:51 PM
Poor buys not necessarily by smith himself are coming home to roost.  Not sure what the solution is right now
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 12, 2020, 07:02:59 PM
Do you think we might take this seriously next week please Dean?

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 07:03:18 PM
Smith aayjbg drinkwater did well. What a absolute fool

Are you only ever going to jump on Smiths back when we lose?

Bizarre.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 12, 2020, 07:05:48 PM
I really donít think smith is up to it. But I also think heís been stitched up by shocking transfer policy and decisions. Unfortunately the two are not mutually exclusive. Happy days.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on January 12, 2020, 07:06:36 PM
Mind you, if he said Drinkwater did well heís either too polite or fucking blind. I mean, I doesnít have to say Ďhe was fucking shití, but he could say Ďlike most of the rest of the team it was a day to forget and weíll be talking about it further in trainingí
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LukeJames on January 12, 2020, 07:07:07 PM
I feel we have wasted a few weeks, January transfer window and 2 signings now by sticking with him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 07:08:22 PM
Everybody is a genius in the stand.

I think the transfer policy is being badly exposed with regards to forwards. Not that a striker and/or an attacking player would have had much difference today, but it may have given them a bit more belief.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VillaAlways on January 12, 2020, 07:10:06 PM
Smith aayjbg drinkwater did well. What a absolute fool

Are you only ever going to jump on Smiths back when we lose?
I canít make sense of either of these comments.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 12, 2020, 07:10:26 PM
Everybody is a genius in the stand.

I think the transfer policy is being badly exposed with regards to forwards. Not that a striker and/or an attacking player would have had much difference today, but it may have given them a bit more belief.
The lack of a good striker must be a burden on the midfielders, and defence..... it almost takes away some hope having no forward, or a shit one.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: sickbeggar on January 12, 2020, 07:12:08 PM
I'm not gonna kneejerk about this result once the dust settles. A cliche perhaps but we won't get relegated because we got hammered by City. I saw them take apart Man United the other day and it could easily have been a similar score if their finishing had been better. Will have a clearer view after the next 2 games and how we react to this. End of January isn't too late because we will still be roughly where we are, and i can't see a new manager bringing in any player who's gonna make that much of difference, so he's gonna have to do it with Smith's squad anyway.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on January 12, 2020, 07:12:25 PM
Dean Smith on 5Live saying we absolutely have to bring in a striker in the transfer window.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 07:15:33 PM
Dean Smith on 5Live saying we absolutely have to bring in a striker in the transfer window.
Most of us have been saying that since September.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 12, 2020, 07:15:42 PM
Dean Smith on 5Live saying we absolutely have to bring in a striker in the transfer window.
at least one.

Need a proper defensive midfielder too.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on January 12, 2020, 07:15:49 PM
Far more concerned by the capitulations against Soton and Watford than today. Heís like most of the team, inconsistent.

Embarrassing to lose so heavily but not entirely unexpected, another similar performance against Brighton will see the calls for a change become louder but by then it may be too late. I think we will stick with him now as he will have had a big say in the transfer planning. And Iíd unenthusiastically agree with that course.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 12, 2020, 07:18:39 PM
Dean Smith on 5Live saying we absolutely have to bring in a striker in the transfer window.

Sounds like heís been hung out by our new highly professional owners.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: avfcpg on January 12, 2020, 07:19:42 PM
I'm not gonna kneejerk about this result once the dust settles. A cliche perhaps but we won't get relegated because we got hammered by City. I saw them take apart Man United the other day and it could easily have been a similar score if their finishing had been better. Will have a clearer view after the next 2 games and how we react to this. End of January isn't too late because we will still be roughly where we are, and i can't see a new manager bringing in any player who's gonna make that much of difference, so he's gonna have to do it with Smith's squad anyway.

This...we are not alone in this battle, have a look at the other clubs recent form, look at what Saints and Watford have managed after being written off by absolutely everyone as "gone". It's gonna be tough but Norwich apart (I think), it is going to be 2 from 7 teams...we're not cut adrift by any means.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Flin5tone on January 12, 2020, 07:36:04 PM
As a Villa fan he should do what's right and best and resign
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 07:37:19 PM
As a Villa fan he should do what's right and best and resign

You been out of wifi or 4g since New Years Day?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wince on January 12, 2020, 07:38:31 PM
As a Villa fan he should do what's right and best and resign

You been out of wifi or 4g since New Years Day?

I was over Xmas and wish I was still out of 4g and wifi
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mike on January 12, 2020, 07:39:47 PM
Do you think Bruce told him, ĎI left us short on centre backs and we were so shit they fired me, so I got compo and straight into a new jobí and Dean thought, Ďwith one tiny change, I can make that plan work tooí.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: phantom limb on January 12, 2020, 07:41:24 PM
I'm not gonna kneejerk about this result once the dust settles. A cliche perhaps but we won't get relegated because we got hammered by City. I saw them take apart Man United the other day and it could easily have been a similar score if their finishing had been better. Will have a clearer view after the next 2 games and how we react to this. End of January isn't too late because we will still be roughly where we are, and i can't see a new manager bringing in any player who's gonna make that much of difference, so he's gonna have to do it with Smith's squad anyway.

This...we are not alone in this battle, have a look at the other clubs recent form, look at what Saints and Watford have managed after being written off by absolutely everyone as "gone". It's gonna be tough but Norwich apart (I think), it is going to be 2 from 7 teams...we're not cut adrift by any means.

Southampton and Watford both have a goal scorer in the team. Unless we get someone in who can do that then weíre going back down.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 07:41:54 PM
We should have bought Maupay. That one looked like a clanger at the time and even more so now.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 07:42:42 PM
Should have but didn't. Hands in pockets please and buy us a forward.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 12, 2020, 07:43:14 PM
Yep most teams on the edge who stay up lean on a good striker who carries them through a good run, like Ings is doing. We donít have a striker. Incompetent much?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 12, 2020, 07:48:59 PM
Maupay has 7 goals this season, only 1 more than Wesley who is widely called shit and never a goalscorer. Not sure how much difference that would have made.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 07:51:50 PM
Maupay has 7 goals this season, only 1 more than Wesley who is widely called shit and never a goalscorer. Not sure how much difference that would have made.

We would have somebody to stick in when Wesley was on a bad run/injured.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 12, 2020, 07:52:47 PM
Maupay has 7 goals this season, only 1 more than Wesley who is widely called shit and never a goalscorer. Not sure how much difference that would have made.

We would have somebody to stick in when Wesley was on a bad run/injured.

If we'd bought both of them, yes. My argument is more against the seemingly prevailing view that we should have bought Maupay instead of Wesley.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 12, 2020, 07:53:30 PM
Should have but didn't. Hands in pockets please and buy us a forward.
If the standard has been set with the likes of Reina and Drinkwater I wouldn't hold your hopes up :(
The hierarchy screwed up pre season and they don't appear to have learned any lessons .....as we all well know this is a notoriously difficult time to bring in decent signings other than for ridiculous transfer fees - the next two weeks will demonstrate how ambitious our owners are or how fucked over we are with FFP
Nearly all my pre season optimism has  vanished

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 07:54:39 PM
Maupay has 7 goals this season, only 1 more than Wesley who is widely called shit and never a goalscorer. Not sure how much difference that would have made.

We would have somebody to stick in when Wesley was on a bad run/injured.

If we'd bought both of them, yes. My argument is more against the seemingly prevailing view that we should have bought Maupay instead of Wesley.

I don't think anybody is arguing that. People are saying one striker wasn't enough and that Maupay is a different player to the striker we bought so we would have another dimension to our style. For instance, in the 3-5-2 they could be an effective partnership.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 12, 2020, 07:55:10 PM
Maupay has 7 goals this season, only 1 more than Wesley who is widely called shit and never a goalscorer. Not sure how much difference that would have made.

We would have somebody to stick in when Wesley was on a bad run/injured.

If we'd bought both of them, yes. My argument is more against the seemingly prevailing view that we should have bought Maupay instead of Wesley.

I don't think anybody is arguing that. People are saying one striker wasn't enough and that Maupay is a different player to the striker we bought so we would have another dimension to our style. For instance, in the 3-5-2 they could be an effective partnership.

Plenty have.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 07:57:27 PM
OK, fair enough. Hadn't seen that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 07:59:21 PM
Maupay has 7 goals this season, only 1 more than Wesley who is widely called shit and never a goalscorer. Not sure how much difference that would have made.

We would have somebody to stick in when Wesley was on a bad run/injured.

If we'd bought both of them, yes. My argument is more against the seemingly prevailing view that we should have bought Maupay instead of Wesley.
The problem wasn't that we bought Wesley but that we only bought Wesley.  A decision that may see us relegated.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: sickbeggar on January 12, 2020, 08:00:07 PM
We should have bought Maupay. That one looked like a clanger at the time and even more so now.


Hindsight i think. We had a punt on wesley, Brighton had a punt on Maupay. Neither of them had a record at the top level but that was the market  both clubs were bidding in. You could argue that with our spending last summer we could have bid for strikers above the "Potentially good enough" level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 12, 2020, 08:02:10 PM
Everybody is a genius in the stand.

I think the transfer policy is being badly exposed with regards to forwards. Not that a striker and/or an attacking player would have had much difference today, but it may have given them a bit more belief.

We wonít get relegated for losing to Man City. Weíll get relegated for all the other shit results, most of which were spent persisting with Wesley who, if we had another credible option, might have been taken out of the firing line.

Starting the season with unproven Wesley, not good enough Kodjia and permanently injured non scoring striker Davis was absolutely woeful, and plenty of us said so at the time.

The problems today though were much more concerning that not having a striker - the total lack of energy, the fact we look so unfit, our inability to hold on to the ball, the total lack of shape, the air of being beaten from the start.

Then thereís throwing in a player who just joined, who has barely played for two years, and watching him give away two or three goals yet leaving him on for eighty minutes.

Itís really not about today, there are probably seven or eight teams who could have brushed us aside that easily today and that is a massive concern.

Smith should be getting asked some very serious questions right now, because unless something changes significantly, and quickly, we are finished.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on January 12, 2020, 08:03:11 PM
Absolutely hilts.  I was left with the clear impression that our lot thought Maupay was coming to join Moraes.  When he chose otherwise there was no Plan B.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: phantom limb on January 12, 2020, 08:05:21 PM
Maupay has 7 goals this season, only 1 more than Wesley who is widely called shit and never a goalscorer. Not sure how much difference that would have made.

We would have somebody to stick in when Wesley was on a bad run/injured.

If we'd bought both of them, yes. My argument is more against the seemingly prevailing view that we should have bought Maupay instead of Wesley.
The problem wasn't that we bought Wesley but that we only bought Wesley.  A decision that may see us relegated.

I guess the idea by the end of the summer  was that Kienan Davis would be enough to provide rotation/backup for Wesley. I rate Davis but that decision does look like a hell of a gamble that hasnít paid off. Itís not like he hasnít had injury problems before.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: robbo1874 on January 12, 2020, 08:06:23 PM
Deanoís on thin ice, itís clear. I think most of us expected to get humped  by City. Lose the next two though and it could be all over for him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 08:09:25 PM
I guess the idea by the end of the summer  was that Kienan Davis would be enough to provide rotation/backup for Wesley. I rate Davis but that decision does look like a hell of a gamble that hasnít paid off. Itís not like he hasnít had injury problems before.
With his injury record, lack of experience, and lack of goals that was a poor call.  Same with Kodjia to an extent.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 08:23:15 PM
We should have bought Maupay. That one looked like a clanger at the time and even more so now.


Hindsight i think. We had a punt on wesley, Brighton had a punt on Maupay. Neither of them had a record at the top level but that was the market  both clubs were bidding in. You could argue that with our spending last summer we could have bid for strikers above the "Potentially good enough" level.

We should've signed both.

Maupay as lead striker and Wesley as bench option. Indeed in some games we could've played both in the 4-3-3 as main times I watch Brighton and Maupay is always drifting out wide or into midfield.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 08:36:18 PM
We should have given inept Smith the shove weeks ago. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: OzVilla on January 12, 2020, 08:36:53 PM
I get that Smith May be trying to distance himself somewhat from our Summer transfer activity, but the decline in performances, lack of improvement from those signings and constant tactical naivety (formation, subs, playing Drinkwater) is all on Smith. Heís actually been our poorest performer imo this season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 08:39:06 PM
I get that Smith May be trying to distance himself somewhat from our Summer transfer activity, but the decline in performances, lack of improvement from those signings and constant tactical naivety (formation, subs, playing Drinkwater) is all on Smith. Heís actually been our poorest performer imo this season.

I genuinely thought we looked like a good side at the start of the season. We looked like we had some quality and would improve. The main concern after 10-11 games was that we hadn't got the points we deserved.

It went really shit against Leicester and has been iffy ever since.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
I genuinely thought we looked like a good side at the start of the season. We looked like we had some quality and would improve. The main concern after 10-11 games was that we hadn't got the points we deserved.

It went really shit against Leicester and has been iffy ever since.
At the start of the season we were doing well in games up to half time but couldn't hold on to leads, be that through inexperience, lack of fitness, poor substitution decisions or whatever.  More recently we've in the main just been playing very very badly mainly through lack of quality.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: sickbeggar on January 12, 2020, 08:49:41 PM
We should have bought Maupay. That one looked like a clanger at the time and even more so now.


Hindsight i think. We had a punt on wesley, Brighton had a punt on Maupay. Neither of them had a record at the top level but that was the market  both clubs were bidding in. You could argue that with our spending last summer we could have bid for strikers above the "Potentially good enough" level.

We should've signed both.

Maupay as lead striker and Wesley as bench option. Indeed in some games we could've played both in the 4-3-3 as main times I watch Brighton and Maupay is always drifting out wide or into midfield.

Yeah but with both of them you were still taking a big gamble. Maupay came off-ish. Wesley didn't. You can praise Brighton for their scouting but the reserves of premiership clubs are littered with strikers who could do it in the Championship or 2nd tier European leagues
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on January 12, 2020, 08:51:01 PM
I can't see him being sacked now. It's too late.
Too late?  How do you mean?  I think the season is still salvageable.  But not under Smith.

The season hinges on this transfer window. I just believe it's too late for a new manager too assess the squad, decide who he wants in and get them in. That's assuming we can get a new manager straight away.
I think it is far too late to expect another manager to come in assess the squad and recruit in just two weeks- the owners and Purslow have made some odd decisions since promotion - e.g. the new contract for Smith and some poor signings - the team is not fit for purpose and Smith and Suso are responsible for that -

Nigel Pearson did it in a couple of weeks. Heís hardly the second coming of Alex Ferguson or Bill Shankly.

Pearson hasn't signed anyone has he? Whereas we have no option but to buy?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on January 12, 2020, 08:51:06 PM
We should have given inept Smith the shove weeks ago. 

I sadly agree.

The lineup today shows heís either let the pressure get to him or he just isnít smart enough.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: aj2k77 on January 12, 2020, 08:52:59 PM
Abysmal for the last 3 months.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 09:18:49 PM
I went for a walk to clear my head and, no, still no better.

I did think, however, how interesting it is to compare us and Sheffield United. Why have they, on scant resources, taken to the premier league and we, with our big investment, have not?

I have to say, I think Smith over complicates things -setting traps etc. I know the game is changing a lot from what I grew up with - gegenpressing, triangles and all the rest. However, I can see players getting a bit overwhelmed with all of the jargon. Does Chris Wilder succeed because he keeps it simple? Is Pearson getting a response at Watford because he keeps it simple and doesn't overwhelm the team with instructions?

A team of our resources should be better.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LukeJames on January 12, 2020, 09:22:19 PM
We should have given inept Smith the shove weeks ago.

Yeah we should, and now just as I feared people are starting to dislike him and his legacy of getting us up is diminishing.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: David_Nab on January 12, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
I went for a walk to clear my head and, no, still no better.

I did think, however, how interesting it is to compare us and Sheffield United. Why have they, on scant resources, taken to the premier league and we, with our big investment, have not?

I have to say, I think Smith over complicates things -setting traps etc. I know the game is changing a lot from what I grew up with - gegenpressing, triangles and all the rest. However, I can see players getting a bit overwhelmed with all of the jargon. Does Chris Wilder succeed because he keeps it simple? Is Pearson getting a response at Watford because he keeps it simple and doesn't overwhelm the team with instructions?

A team of our resources should be better.

That seems to be watford are doing , nothing fancy really but also they are aggressive and strong.

I did notice in some of our recent Games Mings has put balls out for throws rather than try and be clever , twice today we tried to be clever , 2nd and 6th goals and it cost us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TonyD on January 12, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
I donít blame Dean for being crap. I blame the owners for not pulling the trigger about 6 weeks ago.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 12, 2020, 09:38:00 PM
I'm not going to jump on the Smith Out bandwagon like some posters do from week to week. We were great up at Burnley, hopeless at Fulham, got a result no one expected in midweek but were fucking shocking today. Keep the faith.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 09:39:15 PM
I'm not going to jump on the Smith Out bandwagon like some posters do from week to week. We were great up at Burnley, hopeless at Fulham, got a result no one expected in midweek but were fucking shocking today. Keep the faith.

We've been shocking for the majority of the season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 12, 2020, 09:41:46 PM
I'm not going to jump on the Smith Out bandwagon like some posters do from week to week. We were great up at Burnley, hopeless at Fulham, got a result no one expected in midweek but were fucking shocking today. Keep the faith.

We've been shocking for the majority of the season.

But we are stil in with a chance of staying up. Today was horrendous, but it hasnt always been.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brian green on January 12, 2020, 09:47:53 PM
And people like Risso and me have not jumped on and off any bandwagon.  There is raft of poster opinion that Dean Smith is out of his depth.  Nothing fickle about it.  It is an opinion based on performances held by a number of us, honestly, not vindictively.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: OzVilla on January 12, 2020, 09:50:12 PM
Thing is theyíve missed the golden window of opportunity to have done this which was post Watford. New manager then gets almost the entire window. He wonít be binned now, theyíve set out their stall with Smith for the season I think.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 09:51:46 PM
The new owners, as clueless as the last owners.  And the owners before that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 12, 2020, 09:52:08 PM
I'm not going to jump on the Smith Out bandwagon like some posters do from week to week. We were great up at Burnley, hopeless at Fulham, got a result no one expected in midweek but were fucking shocking today. Keep the faith.

We've been shocking for the majority of the season.

And the performances, largely, have been getting worse, despite the Burnley result and the Leicester game.  Over the last three months, we have been hammered a few times, even if the results weren't 1-6 like today.  As Dean changed the formation and did something different, I thought he had finally started to admit that things weren't working.  Sadly, this is a different formation, with the same players, one's that he does not seem to have a great deal of control over.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 12, 2020, 09:52:45 PM
The new owners, as clueless as the last owners.  And the owners before that.

The owners who saved us you mean?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 12, 2020, 09:53:17 PM
I donít blame Dean for being crap. I blame the owners for not pulling the trigger about 6 weeks ago.

Six weeks ago we drew at Old Trafford. We should have sacked him after that match?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 09:53:55 PM
The new owners, as clueless as the last owners.  And the owners before that.

[TomHardy]That's bait [/TomHardy]
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 12, 2020, 09:54:19 PM
I'm not going to jump on the Smith Out bandwagon like some posters do from week to week. We were great up at Burnley, hopeless at Fulham, got a result no one expected in midweek but were fucking shocking today. Keep the faith.

We've been shocking for the majority of the season.

But we are stil in with a chance of staying up. Today was horrendous, but it hasnt always been.

Being still in with a chance of staying up is a long way from looking like staying up. And we don't look like staying up right now.

Technically every club is in with a chance of staying up until it's mathmatically confirmed. Sorry for the truism but I don't get the logic as it doesn't make intransigence the viable option.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 12, 2020, 09:55:40 PM
I donít blame Dean for being crap. I blame the owners for not pulling the trigger about 6 weeks ago.

Six weeks ago we drew at Old Trafford. We should have sacked him after that match?

People keep picking on individual performances.  He wouldn't have been sacked after Burnley either.  What about all the games in-between?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: rougegorge on January 12, 2020, 09:58:31 PM
I'm not going to jump on the Smith Out bandwagon like some posters do from week to week. We were great up at Burnley, hopeless at Fulham, got a result no one expected in midweek but were fucking shocking today. Keep the faith.

We've been shocking for the majority of the season.

And the performances, largely, have been getting worse, despite the Burnley result and the Leicester game.  Over the last three months, we have been hammered a few times, even if the results weren't 1-6 like today.  As Dean changed the formation and did something different, I thought he had finally started to admit that things weren't working.  Sadly, this is a different formation, with the same players, one's that he does not seem to have a great deal of control over.
Yes, unfortunately the performances at Burnley and Leicester look like they were the exception rather than the norm. It has been dismal for weeks.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2020, 10:00:39 PM
Got to say saying stuff like ď3 of Cityís team cost more than our squadĒ isnít going to help him. Itís might be true, but that attitude is incredibly defeatist.

Look at Wilder after Sheffield Utd lost to Liverpool, he highlighted his team hadnít competed in areas they could, i.e. running, energy etc. He doesnít accept excuses and look at them.

I wonder how our effort and running stacks up against Citeh. I bet not well.

Weíre a poorly organised side, but weíre also physically below par and thatís unacceptable.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: andyh on January 12, 2020, 10:01:51 PM
Some of those traps we laid today..........
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 12, 2020, 10:11:25 PM
I donít blame Dean for being crap. I blame the owners for not pulling the trigger about 6 weeks ago.

Six weeks ago we drew at Old Trafford. We should have sacked him after that match?

People keep picking on individual performances.  He wouldn't have been sacked after Burnley either.  What about all the games in-between?

I was specifically calling out "should have been sacked six weeks ago" as bollocks as if anyone knew then how the following games would pan out.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ad@m on January 12, 2020, 10:12:23 PM
Got to say saying stuff like ď3 of Cityís team cost more than our squadĒ isnít going to help him. Itís might be true, but that attitude is incredibly defeatist.

Look at Wilder after Sheffield Utd lost to Liverpool, he highlighted his team hadnít competed in areas they could, i.e. running, energy etc. He doesnít accept excuses and look at them.

I wonder how our effort and running stacks up against Citeh. I bet not well.

Weíre a poorly organised side, but weíre also physically below par and thatís unacceptable.

Indeed.  Even if we'd have been at our best we wouldn't have beaten Man City today - they were incredible.

But that wasn't the reason for the result.  The result was so bad because we didn't put a tackle in for almost 50 minutes, didn't win a single second ball, and from 3-0 onwards everyone except Jack seemed to be hiding and treating the ball like a hot potato.  None of that relates to how much players cost - desire is free and I worry that too many of our players don't have the stomach for the fight.

I'm not convinced January's going to save us either.  I can't see that 20 goal a season striker out there looking for a club.  I also can't see that if by magic he was, he'd be interested in joining a team with a 50:50 chance of playing in the 2nd tier next year.  Unfortunately, a quick look at this bit of research (https://www.21stclub.com/2017/12/14/the-cost-of-january/) backs up the fact that January transfer windows almost never save clubs.

All that said, Smith has earned the right to see this season through.  If the worst happens and we do go down, I am 100% confident he'd bring us straight back up in a much better shape than we finished last season in.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 12, 2020, 10:14:02 PM

But that wasn't the reason for the result.  The result was so bad because we didn't put a tackle in for almost 50 minutes, didn't win a single second ball, and from 3-0 onwards everyone except Jack seemed to be hiding and treating the ball like a hot potato.  None of that relates to how much players cost - desire is free and I worry that too many of our players don't have the stomach for the fight.

Yup, that.

I would also add in the shocking fitness levels on show. Just awful.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 12, 2020, 10:14:18 PM
This is a absolute disgrace and for me sackable.


(https://i.ibb.co/92FZXSW/Screenshot-20200112-203633-Facebook.jpg) (https://ibb.co/92FZXSW)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 12, 2020, 10:15:10 PM
I donít blame Dean for being crap. I blame the owners for not pulling the trigger about 6 weeks ago.

Six weeks ago we drew at Old Trafford. We should have sacked him after that match?

People keep picking on individual performances.  He wouldn't have been sacked after Burnley either.  What about all the games in-between?

I was specifically calling out "should have been sacked six weeks ago" as bollocks as if anyone knew then how the following games would pan out.

Fair enough mate.  I wasn't having a pop, just that the underlying results have not altered positively.  I'm not sure they will.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 10:15:28 PM

All that said, Smith has earned the right to see this season through.  If the worst happens and we do go down, I am 100% confident he'd bring us straight back up in a much better shape than we finished last season in.

I'm not, at all.  I saw how bad we were under Smith last season when Jack was injured, and we'd definitely lose Grealish, McGinn and Mings, at a bare minimum.  We'd then have to hope that he could somehow do another mass rebuilding exercise, when he's failed so badly at it this year. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 12, 2020, 10:17:12 PM
This is a absolute disgrace and for me sackable.


(https://i.ibb.co/92FZXSW/Screenshot-20200112-203633-Facebook.jpg) (https://ibb.co/92FZXSW)


I saw that and had to read it about 5 times to comprehend. Disgusting.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 10:17:27 PM
365 days ago I was much more upset at another abject display. Football changes.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 12, 2020, 10:18:16 PM

But that wasn't the reason for the result.  The result was so bad because we didn't put a tackle in for almost 50 minutes, didn't win a single second ball, and from 3-0 onwards everyone except Jack seemed to be hiding and treating the ball like a hot potato.  None of that relates to how much players cost - desire is free and I worry that too many of our players don't have the stomach for the fight.

Yup, that.

I would also add in the shocking fitness levels on show. Just awful.

You could see at times today, players not wanting the ball, not going out wide for Nyland to throw the ball to, for instance.  A clear sign of under-confidence. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 10:18:37 PM
365 days ago I was much more upset at another abject display. Football changes.
The key words there are "...another abject display."
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 12, 2020, 10:18:47 PM
This is a absolute disgrace and for me sackable.


(https://i.ibb.co/92FZXSW/Screenshot-20200112-203633-Facebook.jpg) (https://ibb.co/92FZXSW)


I saw that and had to read it about 5 times to comprehend. Disgusting.

Fucking hell.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 12, 2020, 10:19:33 PM
I donít blame Dean for being crap. I blame the owners for not pulling the trigger about 6 weeks ago.

Six weeks ago we drew at Old Trafford. We should have sacked him after that match?

People keep picking on individual performances.  He wouldn't have been sacked after Burnley either.  What about all the games in-between?

I was specifically calling out "should have been sacked six weeks ago" as bollocks as if anyone knew then how the following games would pan out.

Fair enough mate.  I wasn't having a pop, just that the underlying results have not altered positively.  I'm not sure they will.

No worries. I think he's going nowhere, so just praying he turns it around.

I do think some of the reactions on here are OTT though. Watford and Southampton have both shown how teams can turn things around. Both teams have had worse hidings than today as well.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ad@m on January 12, 2020, 10:19:51 PM

All that said, Smith has earned the right to see this season through.  If the worst happens and we do go down, I am 100% confident he'd bring us straight back up in a much better shape than we finished last season in.

I'm not, at all.  I saw how bad we were under Smith last season when Jack was injured, and we'd definitely lose Grealish, McGinn and Mings, at a bare minimum.  We'd then have to hope that he could somehow do another mass rebuilding exercise, when he's failed so badly at it this year. 

Jack would go, no question.  And who would blame him - he's something else.

I'm not so convinced about McGinn and Mings though.  They're both on long term contracts and like with Jack 18 months ago, our owners have made it crystal clear they're not going to get bullied by other clubs trying to take our best players.  They're both decent characters so are unlikely to sulk and if Dean told them to give us another season to get back up, or they can go with his blessing, I reckon they would.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 10:20:14 PM
This is a absolute disgrace and for me sackable.


(https://i.ibb.co/92FZXSW/Screenshot-20200112-203633-Facebook.jpg) (https://ibb.co/92FZXSW)


I saw that and had to read it about 5 times to comprehend. Disgusting.
I can see what Drinkwater is going to bring to the team.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 10:20:29 PM
365 days ago I was much more upset at another abject display. Football changes.


The arrival of Mings and return of Grealish helped turn things around, they were both far too good for The Championship.  What do you think is going to be the catalyst for a similar improvement?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 10:21:32 PM
365 days ago I was much more upset at another abject display. Football changes.
The key words there are "...another abject display."

I've seen many over the years, under ever single Villa manager, even our better ones and on more than one occasion. Even the last time we were pretty good, we still got drummed 5 at Anfield, twatted 7 at Stamford Bridge. We were abject today, we will be so again. T'was ever so.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: David_Nab on January 12, 2020, 10:21:40 PM
I donít blame Dean for being crap. I blame the owners for not pulling the trigger about 6 weeks ago.

Six weeks ago we drew at Old Trafford. We should have sacked him after that match?

People keep picking on individual performances.  He wouldn't have been sacked after Burnley either.  What about all the games in-between?

I was specifically calling out "should have been sacked six weeks ago" as bollocks as if anyone knew then how the following games would pan out.

Fair enough mate.  I wasn't having a pop, just that the underlying results have not altered positively.  I'm not sure they will.

No worries. I think he's going nowhere, so just praying he turns it around.

I do think some of the reactions on here are OTT though. Watford and Southampton have both shown how teams can turn things around. Both teams have had worse hirings than today as well.



One of those 2 turned it around by sacking the manager , then sacking his replacement and on the 3rd attempt have turned it around.

 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 10:22:21 PM
I still think he'll keep us up.

We've won two of our last four so we're not even in as much freefall as say Bournemouth. Eddie Howe is a manager I rate but he really looks clueless at what to do now at Bournemouth.

Then you hope Burnley keep losing or West Ham just draw a load of games under Moyes. Neither is impossible.

I've said many times this feels like 12/13 re run. We show promise at times and pick up wins but always feels like we're one bad game from collapsing. Both seasons have been identical so far. In January 2013 we had 21 points after drawing at West Brom and were in semi finals of the league cup (you know what happened next).

We stayed up of course. If we can pull our fingers out and make 2-3 decent signings I can see us winning five more games and with the odd draw that should be enough unless it's a stupidly high points total.

The big one for me is the summer. Last boards were suckered by likes of Lambert and Sherwood keeping us up sometimes against the odds but improvement never happened afterwards. If this board are as suave as they claim I feel they'll thank Dean and let him go then regardless.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on January 12, 2020, 10:23:03 PM

All that said, Smith has earned the right to see this season through.  If the worst happens and we do go down, I am 100% confident he'd bring us straight back up in a much better shape than we finished last season in.

I'm not, at all.  I saw how bad we were under Smith last season when Jack was injured, and we'd definitely lose Grealish, McGinn and Mings, at a bare minimum.  We'd then have to hope that he could somehow do another mass rebuilding exercise, when he's failed so badly at it this year.

I agree completely Risso. Smith with Grealish in the championship probably would get us back up, but as Grealish is almost certainly going to leave in the summer anyway, weíd have Smith without Grealish. If Smith stays, we are going down and it would be the biggest mistake of all of the mistakes to keep Smith. As you say, we saw what it was like last season under Smith without Grealish
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 12, 2020, 10:23:41 PM
We didnít / couldnít get near them . For all his faults I noticed Marvelous got nearer and a few interceptions the short time he was on
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 12, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
This is a absolute disgrace and for me sackable.


(https://i.ibb.co/92FZXSW/Screenshot-20200112-203633-Facebook.jpg) (https://ibb.co/92FZXSW)


I saw that and had to read it about 5 times to comprehend. Disgusting.
I can see what Drinkwater is going to bring to the team.

I have never ever seen such a pathetic stat from a villa team than that. I dont even think we had a tackling stat that bad from the year we went down.

One things for sure never ever play a cm combo of luiz hourihane and drinkwater again.

Truly horrific and totalky unacceptable
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LukeJames on January 12, 2020, 10:26:19 PM
That stat is up there with Gabby touching the ball 3 times against Spurs.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 12, 2020, 10:26:39 PM

All that said, Smith has earned the right to see this season through.  If the worst happens and we do go down, I am 100% confident he'd bring us straight back up in a much better shape than we finished last season in.

I'm not, at all.  I saw how bad we were under Smith last season when Jack was injured, and we'd definitely lose Grealish, McGinn and Mings, at a bare minimum.  We'd then have to hope that he could somehow do another mass rebuilding exercise, when he's failed so badly at it this year. 

Jack would go, no question.  And who would blame him - he's something else.

I'm not so convinced about McGinn and Mings though.  They're both on long term contracts and like with Jack 18 months ago, our owners have made it crystal clear they're not going to get bullied by other clubs trying to take our best players.  They're both decent characters so are unlikely to sulk and if Dean told them to give us another season to get back up, or they can go with his blessing, I reckon they would.

Your dreaming if you think mings and mcginn are stayinv if we go down mate. There is no hope in hell either of them or grealish will stay. The only saving joy is those three would bring in £150m in so we wont get killed by ffp.

But thats the spine of the team we would have no hope of coming back if they all left.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on January 12, 2020, 10:29:00 PM
It is shit or get off the bog time. We even stick with Smith or sack him now. Any managerial replacement needs the opportunity to work the transfer window. For me there is next to no point in appointing somebody in Feb or March.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 10:31:04 PM

One things for sure never ever play a cm combo of luiz hourihane and drinkwater again.



It's hard to conceive of a weaker, less robust midfield.  Hourihane is a one trick pony.  Great shot on him, but absolutely hopeless at any other aspect of midfield play.  Can't tackle or pass.  Luiz can't tackle either, and has more mistakes in him than Titus Bramble.  Danny Drinkwater is clearly completely washed up, and makes Matt Targett look like Usain Bolt.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 12, 2020, 10:32:30 PM
It is shit or get off the bog time. We even stick with Smith or sack him now. Any managerial replacement needs the opportunity to work the transfer window. For me there is next to no point in appointing somebody in Feb or March.

I think we've missed that boat mate.  If they were going to do it, they would have sacked Dean a few weeks ago.  new contract or not.  That said, if they don't sack him tomorrow, after the embarrassment on world television today, they never will.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: aj2k77 on January 12, 2020, 10:32:46 PM
We wouldn't get anywhere near £150m for them in the Championship. It's simply not realistic. Championship clubs don't get £50m for players.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 10:33:03 PM
Two of those will start at Brighton. If one of them dosen't start Marvelous will and let's be honest he can't pass water atm.

Guess like Mings we're now seeing the worth of McGinn while he's out injured. Yes he lost form in the weeks before his injury but he's simply one of the best players at the club and makes those around him much better aswell.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
He is not going anywhere.
They made the decision to stick with him and he is here for the season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Brassneck on January 12, 2020, 10:34:17 PM
Listening to the radio on the way home, Savage claimed that only 4 teams who changed their manager in January have stayed up.  I'm not sure if he meant just in January or from January onwards but it doesn't bode well for changing, especially as there is no stand out replacement.

Stick for me and get behind Deano and the team.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2020, 10:34:27 PM
We wouldn't get anywhere near £150m for them in the Championship. It's simply not realistic. Championship clubs don't get £50m for players.
Oh dear.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 12, 2020, 10:34:45 PM
In Dean they trust. He is going nowhere. They have made that perfectly clear.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 12, 2020, 10:35:11 PM

One things for sure never ever play a cm combo of luiz hourihane and drinkwater again.



It's hard to conceive of a weaker, less robust midfield.  Hourihane is a one trick pony.  Great shot on him, but absolutely hopeless at any other aspect of midfield play.  Can't tackle or pass.  Luiz can't tackle either, and has more mistakes in him than Titus Bramble.  Danny Drinkwater is clearly completely washed up, and makes Matt Targett look like Usain Bolt.

Makes you realise what a good player N'Golo Kante is.   

Luiz constantly disappoints me.  Foe every one thing he does that is productive, he follows it up with two stupid things.  I sometimes record the games and watch individual players.  Luiz does his fair share of ball watching, throwing his arms around, not tracking back and is very weak in the tackle. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on January 12, 2020, 10:39:14 PM
Two of those will start at Brighton. If one of them dosen't start Marvelous will and let's be honest he can't pass water atm.

Guess like Mings we're now seeing the worth of McGinn while he's out injured. Yes he lost form in the weeks before his injury but he's simply one of the best players at the club and makes those around him much better aswell.

I reckon their is a good chance we start with Drinkwater and Luiz against Brighton. However, if we also start with Guilbert, Targett and (slightly longer shot) a new striker I reckon there is a fair chance we would see a better performance from the midfield.

We have been particularly unfortunate with exactly who the injuries have hit in Heaton, McGinn and Wesley (and, as you mention, Mings in the shorter term) in terms of their influence on the team and how we play.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 12, 2020, 10:46:20 PM
I donít blame Dean for being crap. I blame the owners for not pulling the trigger about 6 weeks ago.

Six weeks ago we drew at Old Trafford. We should have sacked him after that match?

People keep picking on individual performances.  He wouldn't have been sacked after Burnley either.  What about all the games in-between?

I was specifically calling out "should have been sacked six weeks ago" as bollocks as if anyone knew then how the following games would pan out.

Fair enough mate.  I wasn't having a pop, just that the underlying results have not altered positively.  I'm not sure they will.

No worries. I think he's going nowhere, so just praying he turns it around.

I do think some of the reactions on here are OTT though. Watford and Southampton have both shown how teams can turn things around. Both teams have had worse hirings than today as well.



One of those 2 turned it around by sacking the manager , then sacking his replacement and on the 3rd attempt have turned it around.

 

Yeah and the other kept their manager despite losing 9-0. I don't think he will be sacked. I don't think either sacking him or keeping him guarantees safety. Fact of the matter is we've still got a great chance of staying up so let's move on and try and get some results like we've shown we can.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2020, 10:47:47 PM
We wouldn't get anywhere near £150m for them in the Championship. It's simply not realistic. Championship clubs don't get £50m for players.

No second division team has had a Jack Grealish to sell, and definitely haven't had one in these days of insane prices.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2020, 10:48:12 PM
The midfield has been the problem all season and I donít think Smith has a clue how to correct this.
The selection of an unfit Drinkdriver, Hourihane along side Luiz was a further demonstration of his ineptitude.
He changes it every game to no avail.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Flin5tone on January 12, 2020, 10:49:16 PM
His Interview on MOTD says it all, looks and sounds like a non league manager. " their three goalscorers cost more than my whole squad" F*** OFF
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 10:50:53 PM
We wouldn't get anywhere near £150m for them in the Championship. It's simply not realistic. Championship clubs don't get £50m for players.

No second division team has had a Jack Grealish to sell, and definitely haven't had one in these days of insane prices.

Do we know if there are any clauses in Jack's contract like a relegation release clause or buy out clause or anything like that?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: David_Nab on January 12, 2020, 10:51:20 PM
His Interview on MOTD says it all, looks and sounds like a non league manager. " their three goalscorers cost more than my whole squad" F*** OFF

Don't see likes of Wilder pulling that kind of shit , infact its something out of the Bruce playbook
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on January 12, 2020, 10:52:07 PM
His Interview on MOTD says it all, looks and sounds like a non league manager. " their three goalscorers cost more than my whole squad" F*** OFF

Iíve just read that and arenít impressed. Does him no credit at all.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2020, 10:52:47 PM
We wouldn't get anywhere near £150m for them in the Championship. It's simply not realistic. Championship clubs don't get £50m for players.

No second division team has had a Jack Grealish to sell, and definitely haven't had one in these days of insane prices.
Or an England Centre half or the most exiting player Scotland has produced for some time.
Supply and Demand is not that difficult a concept to understand.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 10:53:21 PM
Danny Ings has scored 16 goals in 17 games.  With that sort of guarantee of goals, if you tighten up defence you're going to shoot up the table. 

We can't defend, can't keep hold of the ball, and don't score enough.  It's an absolute shambles in every department.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LukeJames on January 12, 2020, 10:54:00 PM
I hate it when managers come out with that. Sheffield utds squad that beat us 2-0 cost half of a Wesley. Its a bollocks excuse and very much Bruce-esque.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 12, 2020, 10:55:28 PM
Not good that is it. He didnít mention money much when he was getting us promoted as a big spending championship club parting playing fast and loose with ffp. Or when we were outspending the other promoted teams by miles in the summer. Heís starting to get on my tits.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 12, 2020, 11:00:35 PM
His Interview on MOTD says it all, looks and sounds like a non league manager. " their three goalscorers cost more than my whole squad" F*** OFF

Iíve just read that and arenít impressed. Does him no credit at all.



Not a good road to go down
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 11:01:37 PM
Don't recall him using that excuse when Sheffield United beat us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2020, 11:03:58 PM
We spent more in the summer than their front 3 cost. Such a shit excuse for him to trot out.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 11:04:11 PM
Don't recall him using that excuse when Sheffield United beat us.
Almost certainly used a different one though.  That side of him does bug me.  Allardyce was always the same, blaming the officials for virtually everything.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 11:04:15 PM
I hate it when managers come out with that. Sheffield utds squad that beat us 2-0 cost half of a Wesley. Its a bollocks excuse and very much Bruce-esque.

And Man United were lucky not to be shovelled 6, again, on Tuesday, with a squad that cost a tonne.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
I hate it when managers come out with that. Sheffield utds squad that beat us 2-0 cost half of a Wesley. Its a bollocks excuse and very much Bruce-esque.

And Man United were lucky not to be shovelled 6, again, on Tuesday, with a squad that cost a tonne.

*Alan Partridge who gives a shit type shrug*
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 11:07:10 PM
We should really learn how to post memes and gifs. Or at least hire somebody to do it for us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2020, 11:08:41 PM
We should really learn how to post memes and gifs. Or at least hire somebody to do it for us.
I was thinking exactly that.  I can think of a million after today's game.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 12, 2020, 11:16:33 PM
I noticed he kept referring to the Director of Football in relation to transfer updates.  No calling him Suso anymore.  For him not to know how close they are to signings seems a tad strange.  Anyone starting to think theyíve either fallen out or hes distancing himself from the D of F?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 11:17:58 PM
His Interview on MOTD says it all, looks and sounds like a non league manager. " their three goalscorers cost more than my whole squad" F*** OFF

Don't see likes of Wilder pulling that kind of shit , infact its something out of the Bruce playbook

Wilder actually said the opposite earlier this season. They were doing o.k but losing a few games and he called out his squad and said they've earnt the right to be at this level so need to believe they deserve to be in this league as much as any other team.

That really impressed me at the time and you can see it in the way Sheffield United show no fear whoever they play. They certainly have a go home and away.

With us the theme in the last decade is there's always someone out there with more money or better players so it's throwing your arms in the air and shrugging your shoulders rather than working out proper gameplans to counter.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PeterWithe on January 12, 2020, 11:19:12 PM
The lack of forwards is likely to cost DS his job, not really a surprise if heís not happy about it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2020, 11:19:24 PM
Wilder should have got the Arsenal job. His record is astounding since he took over at Sheffield United.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RichardBatchelor on January 12, 2020, 11:19:54 PM
I'm not going to jump on the Smith Out bandwagon like some posters do from week to week. We were great up at Burnley, hopeless at Fulham, got a result no one expected in midweek but were fucking shocking today. Keep the faith.

We've been shocking for the majority of the season.f

No we havenít, only since December.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 11:20:43 PM
Wilder should have got the Arsenal job. His record is astounding since he took over at Sheffield United.

Well he should be on our list as/when we change and we're still in this league. He wasn't that far off taking the Sunderland two years ago IIRC.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wozwebs on January 12, 2020, 11:21:49 PM
I noticed he kept referring to the Director of Football in relation to transfer updates.  No calling him Suso anymore.  For him not to know how close they are to signings seems a tad strange.  Anyone starting to think theyíve either fallen out or hes distancing himself from the D of F?

Few rumblings of this on Twitter. Something doesnít seem right. Suso has hardly delivered us some outstanding buys so far has he?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 11:22:11 PM
Wilder should have got the Arsenal job. His record is astounding since he took over at Sheffield United.

He worked miracles at Northampton too.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on January 12, 2020, 11:24:49 PM
I'm jumping on the bandwagon.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Des Little on January 12, 2020, 11:31:04 PM
Ok, so letís just say that Pitarch and DS donít get on, as is rumoured. If true, then there has to be a faller. Which one should It be?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on January 12, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Ok, so letís just say that Pitarch and DS donít get on, as is rumoured. If true, then there has to be a faller. Which one should It be?

Smith
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2020, 11:55:03 PM
Ok, so letís just say that Pitarch and DS donít get on, as is rumoured. If true, then there has to be a faller. Which one should It be?

Neither of them could really complain if they were both potted.  The whole structure is wrong though.  A Sporting Director with no real experience of English football, and a manager in Dean Smith who is proving to be tactically quite limited.  Most of the players we bought haven't worked out, and Dean Smith isn't organising them very well.  There aren't too many examples of the coach/DoF system working in UK football.  I'd rather have a good manager and trust him to be the main decision maker in buying players.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: paul_e on January 13, 2020, 12:23:13 AM
The players haven't worked yet, deciding that they're universally not good enough after 6months is just going to see us trapped in permanent transition. At some point we need to do things differently and, for me, I've seen enough from most of these players to think they can become the basis of a good squad.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villadelph on January 13, 2020, 12:45:50 AM
Bring in Heaton, re-sign Mings and use the other 70 million on that Tammy Abraham fella. That easy.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Monty on January 13, 2020, 01:08:15 AM
Bring in Heaton, re-sign Mings and use the other 70 million on that Tammy Abraham fella. That easy.

You want to be having the premier league deciding between old Jedinak and crocked Chester in central defense? Also, who's on the wing? Green? And who else? No, the rebuilding was completely necessary - the question is whether or not they made the right buying choices, not if the buying was the the right thing to begin with.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2020, 07:04:57 AM
Dean Smith on 5Live saying we absolutely have to bring in a striker in the transfer window.

Sounds like heís been hung out by our new highly professional owners.

Why would they do that? They've put a lot of money into the club, I hardly think they want to risk us going down. I reckon a new striker will come in, mainly because is has to happen.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: sid1964 on January 13, 2020, 07:13:55 AM
i will be astonished if we do not have a new striker by the end of this week! - it will probably be a loan signing.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villafirst on January 13, 2020, 07:16:20 AM
i will be astonished if we do not have a new striker by the end of this week! - it will probably be a loan signing.

Be prepared to be astonished!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 13, 2020, 07:21:10 AM
i will be astonished if we do not have a new striker by the end of this week! - it will probably be a loan signing.

All the mistakes we said would happen the tean yesterday the lack of strikers signed and pl experience hss come back ti bite us in the arse.

20m for both trez and konsa has shown what terrible business we did in summer
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2020, 07:23:09 AM
i will be astonished if we do not have a new striker by the end of this week! - it will probably be a loan signing.

All the mistakes we said would happen the tean yesterday the lack of strikers signed and pl experience hss come back ti bite us in the arse.

20m for both trez and konsa has shown what terrible business we did in summer

Spot on Dem. Add in that spent on Luiz and Targett, and none of them have had the desired effect.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on January 13, 2020, 07:39:47 AM
I've said repeatedly we didn't need Konsa this season and that his fee should have gone towards another forward - there must have been someone who could have come in. Konsa isn't the only example of course, most of our recruitment in the summer isn't fit for purpose.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VinnieChase84 on January 13, 2020, 07:54:40 AM
Have to admit im massively worried about him and something isnt right currently. Hes started to sound like he is in self preservation mode. Referring to Suso as 'The sporting director' and not by name is clearly shifting blame/separating himself.
The comments of "well citys front 3 are worth more than our squad" is cop out bollocks. Pressure getting to him imo
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: john e on January 13, 2020, 08:44:50 AM
Have to admit im massively worried about him and something isnt right currently. Hes started to sound like he is in self preservation mode. Referring to Suso as 'The sporting director' and not by name is clearly shifting blame/separating himself.
The comments of "well citys front 3 are worth more than our squad" is cop out bollocks. Pressure getting to him imo


yep, sadly we've been here before and seen the way it goes most times
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 13, 2020, 09:07:27 AM
Yep itís looking bad at the moment. We really need some form of statement of intent in terms of a couple of signings.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 09:08:04 AM
I was there yesterday and saw all the problems mentioned here.  I also agree the lack of striker cover and reliance on Wesley was criminal and said so at the time.

But otherwise regarding the summer business we had a lot of holes to fill and in the fullness of time I don't think we'll look back and think £20m for Trez and Konsa was bad business.

This result wont define our season and I don't think it's a fair reflection on the likely long term merits of Drinkwater.  So I'm still behind Smith and am hopeful that if we can get a striker or too in we've still got a decent chance of getting out of this mess. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: in exile on January 13, 2020, 02:15:39 PM
i will be astonished if we do not have a new striker by the end of this week! - it will probably be a loan signing.

Be prepared to be astonished!

My arse
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 13, 2020, 02:20:18 PM
I have to say I feel a bit sorry for Smith today.

I want him gone like many, and he pissed me off yesterday with the abject game plan, but I do think it's just too much for him here. He's drowning and I think he knows it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:23:21 PM
He's not drowning.  He's just go a paper think squad hampered by devastating injuries in one of the toughest leagues in the world.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2020, 02:26:27 PM
He's not drowning.  He's just go a paper think squad hampered by devastating injuries in one of the toughest leagues in the world.
He was struggling long before Wes and Heaton got injured.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:30:24 PM
He's not drowning.  He's just go a paper think squad hampered by devastating injuries in one of the toughest leagues in the world.
He was struggling long before Wes and Heaton got injured.
We were struggling for points but other than the tricky run of games our performances had been generally pretty good.  Our biggest issue was lack of cutting edge and whatever people say I just don't accept going into the season with just Wesley as a viable option up front was Smiths choice.  I honestly think that was root cause of our problems and it was entirely predictable.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Flin5tone on January 13, 2020, 02:39:55 PM
I have to say I feel a bit sorry for Smith today.

I want him gone like many, and he pissed me off yesterday with the abject game plan, but I do think it's just too much for him here. He's drowning and I think he knows it.

This was always my worry with Deano he's gone from Managing Walsall and Brentford to managing Villa in the Premier League. Villa is one of the toughest and biggest jobs out there, even for a top manager with lots of experience it would be a tough gig.

The problem is when people like Big Sam gets mentioned people turn their noses up at it but if we want to stay up that's what we need. We will never attract a top class manager with the players we have or are going for they want assurances and huge money which we don't offer it seems.

Smiths post match comments made us sound like a run of the mill championship club and to be honest with the players we have and are bringing in that's exactly what we are
 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 03:18:43 PM
Our biggest issue was lack of cutting edge and whatever people say I just don't accept going into the season with just Wesley as a viable option up front was Smiths choice.  I honestly think that was root cause of our problems and it was entirely predictable.

I think our problems lie much deeper than that. Going back to May last year, the first thing newly promoted teams need is a solid defence. Make the team hard to beat. Pick up points. Look at Sheff Utd, joint second best defence in the league, we've actually scored more goals than them.

Heaton was a smart move, Steer excellent cover.
Fred was a massive risk but he's turned up trumps, Elmo good pro but if Fred got injured we'd be extremely worried.
Mings made complete sense despite his lack of experience; Hause as cover but hopefully for not too long.
Konsa and Engels. Both have potential but neither have experience. It now shows. Did we need both?
Targett should have been bought at best as cover but instead we spent £14m on a left back that can't defend. Exactly what we didn't need. Taylor as cover can normally defend but useless in attack. Hardly ideal.

A quick look at our defensive midfielders and there's one glaring problem with the squad, we only have one defensive midfielder, Marvelous, who really should be back up giving this is his first season in England. Luiz, Conor even Lansbury all played there so far this season but none of them are natural defensive midfielders.

Are we solid in defence or hard to beat? I wish. Dean failed to get the basics right in the summer and now he's under huge pressure to keep us up. He's insisted in pushing square pegs into round holes and he wonders why it's all going tits up. Nice chap that he is, he's only got himself to blame.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 13, 2020, 03:21:16 PM
He's not drowning.  He's just go a paper think squad hampered by devastating injuries in one of the toughest leagues in the world.

Exactly, it's a tough league, and managers need to be even tougher to succeed.

Let's unpack that comment about the paper thin squad hampered by devastating injuries though. Two things were foreseeable this season:

1. We would struggle against the bigger teams without Premier League-level steel and experience. So the recruitment, particularly in midfield, has been off. Luiz, Nakamba, Trezeguet - none of them had kicked a competitive ball in this country, let alone this league, before - and their inexperience and naivety is being exposed in a big way. As you say this is a hugely tough league. Coming into it with those lads in midfield was always going to be a problem. We talk a lot about Jack Grealish getting no protection from refs in this league, but realistically he has zero protection from his own players either. He is left alone to do all the work, in both halves of the pitch, and he gets kicked around for it. You can tell it's pissing him off, too. He knows he's surrounded by players who are incapable of playing against Manchester City and competing, full stop.

2. It's been done to death, but to a man we all said on deadline day - and well beforehand - that we needed another striker. Maupay was the obvious choice, which many of us suggested, and in retrospect looked good value at 20m - but we baulked at that price and put all our eggs in Wesley's basket of inexperience (see above, again), and it's backfired massively. Now we're looking at paying a premium on top of 20m for the same (or worse) quality, and we probably won't do it because of FFP concerns if we go down.

In short, we're in trouble, and it's not simply because the league is tough. If that were the case, Sheffield United would down in the mire with us, but they're not, they're flying high. Wolves are again doing well in the top half, just like last season, their first after promotion. Southampton and Everton changed managers and they are both hugely improved.

You may not think Smith is the problem, but if you don't think he's at least part of the problem then I think you're kidding yourself tbh. He is drowning.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: GXVilla on January 13, 2020, 03:22:58 PM
If only the transfer market was as easy as identifying what you need and buying the perfect player to fit the slot.
We would have had Webster at centre back and Phillips in midfield.
Is it Smith's fault we haven't got them?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: lovejoy on January 13, 2020, 03:29:51 PM
All the bed wetting aside, he took us up so deserves a shot in the top league - a full season at least. Also the last time we changed managers mid season we ended up with the likes of Sherwood, Garde and Black. A lot of the names being bandied around are simply unrealistic and those that are, offer no big improvement on Smith.
Give him a fair crack, that's what I say.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2020, 03:32:09 PM
All the bed wetting aside, he took us up so deserves a shot in the top league - a full season at least. Also the last time we changed managers mid season we ended up with the likes of Sherwood, Garde and Black. A lot of the names being bandied around are simply unrealistic and those that are, offer no big improvement on Smith.
Give him a fair crack, that's what I say.
I think we would stand a far better chance if he was on Crack ÖÖÖ we all wanted him to succeed but its not working
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 13, 2020, 03:32:37 PM
All the bed wetting aside, he took us up so deserves a shot in the top league - a full season at least. Also the last time we changed managers mid season we ended up with the likes of Sherwood, Garde and Black. A lot of the names being bandied around are simply unrealistic and those that are, offer no big improvement on Smith.
Give him a fair crack, that's what I say.

And if he takes us down, which seems likely, and then we lose our few quality players - what have we gained? An ounce of pride for sticking by someone who was ultimately failing at his job?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on January 13, 2020, 03:40:01 PM
i will be astonished if we do not have a new striker by the end of this week! - it will probably be a loan signing.

All the mistakes we said would happen the tean yesterday the lack of strikers signed and pl experience hss come back ti bite us in the arse.

20m for both trez and konsa has shown what terrible business we did in summer

Not to mention £17m for Targett, a player not even good enough to dislodge the hapless Neil Taylor from the team!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2020, 03:44:14 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular   
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 04:19:28 PM
He's not drowning.  He's just go a paper think squad hampered by devastating injuries in one of the toughest leagues in the world.

Exactly, it's a tough league, and managers need to be even tougher to succeed.

Let's unpack that comment about the paper thin squad hampered by devastating injuries though. Two things were foreseeable this season:

1. We would struggle against the bigger teams without Premier League-level steel and experience. So the recruitment, particularly in midfield, has been off. Luiz, Nakamba, Trezeguet - none of them had kicked a competitive ball in this country, let alone this league, before - and their inexperience and naivety is being exposed in a big way. As you say this is a hugely tough league. Coming into it with those lads in midfield was always going to be a problem. We talk a lot about Jack Grealish getting no protection from refs in this league, but realistically he has zero protection from his own players either. He is left alone to do all the work, in both halves of the pitch, and he gets kicked around for it. You can tell it's pissing him off, too. He knows he's surrounded by players who are incapable of playing against Manchester City and competing, full stop.

2. It's been done to death, but to a man we all said on deadline day - and well beforehand - that we needed another striker. Maupay was the obvious choice, which many of us suggested, and in retrospect looked good value at 20m - but we baulked at that price and put all our eggs in Wesley's basket of inexperience (see above, again), and it's backfired massively. Now we're looking at paying a premium on top of 20m for the same (or worse) quality, and we probably won't do it because of FFP concerns if we go down.

In short, we're in trouble, and it's not simply because the league is tough. If that were the case, Sheffield United would down in the mire with us, but they're not, they're flying high. Wolves are again doing well in the top half, just like last season, their first after promotion. Southampton and Everton changed managers and they are both hugely improved.

You may not think Smith is the problem, but if you don't think he's at least part of the problem then I think you're kidding yourself tbh. He is drowning.
I agree with your points regarding recruitment, particularly the Wesley gamble which I was never happy about.  But do you really think Smith was the driving force behind these players?  They obviously have to show a united front, but I'd be amazed if the likes of Wesley, Nakamba & Trezuget were Smiths choice when the likes of Maupay, Phillips and Benrhama were potentially available.

In fairness we had a finite pot of money and were being quoted daft prices for English based players and maybe with so many holes to fill our hands were tied a bit.

But essentially the issues you point to are mainly recruitment and that's Suso's job more so than Smith.  He was making a decent fist of getting a performance out of the team until Mings and then McGinn's injury, albeit without necessarily getting the results we wanted. 

So no, I don't think he's drowning, I think it's more he's struggling with the players he's been given, exacerbated by the injuries.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 04:22:52 PM
i will be astonished if we do not have a new striker by the end of this week! - it will probably be a loan signing.

All the mistakes we said would happen the tean yesterday the lack of strikers signed and pl experience hss come back ti bite us in the arse.

20m for both trez and konsa has shown what terrible business we did in summer

Not to mention £17m for Targett, a player not even good enough to dislodge the hapless Neil Taylor from the team!
I think the Targett fee was £11.5m + add ons.  Still a lot, but not £17m (yet).  And I think he's injured not dropped.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2020, 04:23:50 PM
Wesley wasn't a gamble, the decision for Wesley only was. The Leicester to Southampton games laid bare that issue, as Wesley needed a break.

Since then we've taken 6 out of 12, with two really weak and poor performances for the defeats and the policy has been exacerbated further, as there's no longer a forward at the club.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 04:32:01 PM
Wesley wasn't a gamble, the decision for Wesley only was. The Leicester to Southampton games laid bare that issue, as Wesley needed a break.

Since then we've taken 6 out of 12, with two really weak and poor performances for the defeats and the policy has been exacerbated further, as there's no longer a forward at the club.
Wesley was a gamble.  It was too much money out of our budget for a main striker who was mostly unknown.  It wouldn't have been such a gamble for an established team like Everton who had a sufficient squad to ease him in, but for us to chuck all our eggs in the Wesley basket was utter madness.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on January 13, 2020, 04:34:06 PM
yes and the clock is ticking - the one position above all others that is needed is another forward or two - and instead we look like adding  a superannuated goalkeeper to our growing collection and a semi retired  retired midfielder and full time drunk.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2020, 04:37:31 PM
Wesley wasn't a gamble, the decision for Wesley only was. The Leicester to Southampton games laid bare that issue, as Wesley needed a break.

Since then we've taken 6 out of 12, with two really weak and poor performances for the defeats and the policy has been exacerbated further, as there's no longer a forward at the club.
Wesley was a gamble.  It was too much money out of our budget for a main striker who was mostly unknown.  It wouldn't have been such a gamble for an established team like Everton who had a sufficient squad to ease him in, but for us to chuck all our eggs in the Wesley basket was utter madness.

I think we're broadly agreeing. I think there's a player in Wesley, but to expect him to do it on his own was a poor one.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on January 13, 2020, 06:35:50 PM
The thing with the recruitment is that it was an absolutely massive job. We signed twelve players (plus Guilbert came in) in the summer and have pretty much needed everyone (could possibly make an exception with Jota but thatís only really been since Jack moved further forward) and most people agree that we needed at least one more than that ideally.

The club/owners/managerial team found themselves in a position where, mainly due to the previous incumbents in their roles had to do a pretty unprecedented rebuilding job alongside promotion. As Chris mentioned above, we obviously had a finite budget and had to spread that across half a squads worth of signings. Itís ok saying that we should have signed Maupay for example but that cost would probably mean that we donít sign Jota, El Ghazi and Trezeguet for example.

Was it perfect? No. Have some of the players not reached the level that the staff hoped for/anticipated? Quite possibly. But given the fairly unique circumstances I donít think they did a terrible job.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 13, 2020, 06:40:24 PM
Wilder should have got the Arsenal job. His record is astounding since he took over at Sheffield United.

Well he should be on our list as/when we change and we're still in this league. He wasn't that far off taking the Sunderland two years ago IIRC.

He won't leave Sheffield United for us. He's born and bred Sheffield. Loves it here and played for the club. (He's related to a colleague of mine who attends matches as his guest and whilst I've not asked the question I'm pretty sure I don't need to. )

He nearly left because of the arguments between the owners and a lack of investment and plan.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on January 13, 2020, 07:38:02 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular

That was a lucky 10 game winning streak then. All those victories weíre really lucky!!

Who would you have in then, apologies if youíve already mentioned, havenít read the whole thread.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LeeB on January 13, 2020, 07:49:20 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 13, 2020, 07:51:26 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

I hope you're not saying that when we are back in the Championship, just saying!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2020, 07:55:29 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular   

Just because we're not having a great season so far, don't belittle promotion as 'getting lucky'. I thought it was fucking great.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: saunders_heroes on January 13, 2020, 07:58:00 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 13, 2020, 08:00:18 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2020, 08:05:32 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Well, yes. What other course of action would you suggest supporters (who have no influence over the decisions taken by the club) take?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2020, 08:08:16 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular   

Just because we're not having a great season so far, don't belittle promotion as 'getting lucky'. I thought it was fucking great.
I'm certainly not belittling it Clampy - it was something to savour as was the winning streak - but we did get "lucky" in the play off lottery - which was probably overdue after the dearth of luck in the first play off final against Fulham
Of course it's all about opinions on sites such as this and I respect people's views ( well most :) )
I just happen to think Smith isn't quite up to the task of retaining our top flight status let alone build upon it .....I hope I am eating humble pie in May - cheers UTV regards VCTM
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2020, 08:10:02 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular   

Just because we're not having a great season so far, don't belittle promotion as 'getting lucky'. I thought it was fucking great.
I'm certainly not belittling it Clampy - it was something to savour as was the winning streak - but we did get "lucky" in the play off lottery - which was probably overdue after the dearth of luck in the first play off final against Fulham
Of course it's all about opinions on sites such as this and I respect people's views ( well most :) )
I just happen to think Smith isn't quite up to the task of retaining our top flight status let alone build upon it .....I hope I am eating humble pie in May - cheers UTV regards VCTM

It wasn't a lottery when we lost in the playoffs and it wasn't a lottery when we won. We lost because we played like shit. We won because we were better than the other teams.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 13, 2020, 08:13:27 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Well, yes. What other course of action would you suggest supporters (who have no influence over the decisions taken by the club) take?

Is this question aimed at me SE? 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2020, 08:14:13 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Well, yes. What other course of action would you suggest supporters (who have no influence over the decisions taken by the club) take?

Is this question aimed at me SE? 

It is mate.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 13, 2020, 08:20:11 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Well, yes. What other course of action would you suggest supporters (who have no influence over the decisions taken by the club) take?

Is this question aimed at me SE? 

It is mate.

What would I do?  I'd have sacked him by now and given another Manager with Premier Division experience a shot at the January market to try to keep us up.  Two things: we are seeking players who have Premier Division experience in the hope to keep us up, (secondly) by a Manager, or Head Coach who has no Premier Division experience.  People have highlighted individual games where we have performed adequately, but ignored all the shit.  To criticise Dean feels wrong because he's one of our own but, sadly, he's out of his depth.  One point off safety is only ok until game 38.  Do something now, before it's too late and we end up losing Mings, Heaton, Jack et al.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2020, 08:23:53 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular   

Just because we're not having a great season so far, don't belittle promotion as 'getting lucky'. I thought it was fucking great.
I'm certainly not belittling it Clampy - it was something to savour as was the winning streak - but we did get "lucky" in the play off lottery - which was probably overdue after the dearth of luck in the first play off final against Fulham
Of course it's all about opinions on sites such as this and I respect people's views ( well most :) )
I just happen to think Smith isn't quite up to the task of retaining our top flight status let alone build upon it .....I hope I am eating humble pie in May - cheers UTV regards VCTM

It wasn't a lottery when we lost in the playoffs and it wasn't a lottery when we won. We lost because we played like shit. We won because we were better than the other teams.
I refer to my penultimate paragraph above ....;)
cheers SE.   VCTM
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on January 13, 2020, 08:28:09 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular   

Just because we're not having a great season so far, don't belittle promotion as 'getting lucky'. I thought it was fucking great.
I'm certainly not belittling it Clampy - it was something to savour as was the winning streak - but we did get "lucky" in the play off lottery - which was probably overdue after the dearth of luck in the first play off final against Fulham
Of course it's all about opinions on sites such as this and I respect people's views ( well most :) )
I just happen to think Smith isn't quite up to the task of retaining our top flight status let alone build upon it .....I hope I am eating humble pie in May - cheers UTV regards VCTM

It wasn't a lottery when we lost in the playoffs and it wasn't a lottery when we won. We lost because we played like shit. We won because we were better than the other teams.

Spot on. All in the past now, but we never deserved anything against Fulham. Again at WBA it was fairly even over 2 games, which is why it went to pens and ours were better. Derby we were the much better team for most of the game. Again though the who 'lucky suggestion is a bit no win for Smith, in other words it wasn't his influence that got us up but it is his influence bringing us down, it's just a bit too easy. But like you say we've all got opinions on here and we all want villa to do well
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 13, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Nay! We prefer to be big piles of glutinous mush, o Strongman.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: nigel on January 13, 2020, 08:47:22 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular   

Just because we're not having a great season so far, don't belittle promotion as 'getting lucky'. I thought it was fucking great.
I'm certainly not belittling it Clampy - it was something to savour as was the winning streak - but we did get "lucky" in the play off lottery - which was probably overdue after the dearth of luck in the first play off final against Fulham
Of course it's all about opinions on sites such as this and I respect people's views ( well most :) )
I just happen to think Smith isn't quite up to the task of retaining our top flight status let alone build upon it .....I hope I am eating humble pie in May - cheers UTV regards VCTM

It wasn't a lottery when we lost in the playoffs and it wasn't a lottery when we won. We lost because we played like shit. We won because we were better than the other teams.

Spot on. All in the past now, but we never deserved anything against Fulham. Again at WBA it was fairly even over 2 games, which is why it went to pens and ours were better. Derby we were the much better team for most of the game. Again though the who 'lucky suggestion is a bit no win for Smith, in other words it wasn't his influence that got us up but it is his influence bringing us down, it's just a bit too easy. But like you say we've all got opinions on here and we all want villa to do well

Really?
They had more possession, but, I don't think I was worried until the final couple of minutes, after they scored a fortunate goal, due to Mings going down injured.
They certainly weren't better.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 13, 2020, 08:50:00 PM
That's what he said, nige!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 13, 2020, 10:01:30 PM
We all saw how bereft of ideas Smith was last season when Grealish was out of the side Ö we "got lucky" with promotion after finishing 5th.
I cant recall Smith getting Brentford too close to promotion in the past  - why would it be any different with him managing us in the Championship?
Yes we`ve had a few injuries and a couple of nasty ones recently but we have been struggling prior to those.
My biggest concern right now is who is bringing in the players? And what is their relationship with the player/agent and selling club Ö. some of the signings have been strange to say the least Ö.Wesley in particular   

Just because we're not having a great season so far, don't belittle promotion as 'getting lucky'. I thought it was fucking great.
I'm certainly not belittling it Clampy - it was something to savour as was the winning streak - but we did get "lucky" in the play off lottery - which was probably overdue after the dearth of luck in the first play off final against Fulham
Of course it's all about opinions on sites such as this and I respect people's views ( well most :) )
I just happen to think Smith isn't quite up to the task of retaining our top flight status let alone build upon it .....I hope I am eating humble pie in May - cheers UTV regards VCTM

It wasn't a lottery when we lost in the playoffs and it wasn't a lottery when we won. We lost because we played like shit. We won because we were better than the other teams.

Spot on. All in the past now, but we never deserved anything against Fulham. Again at WBA it was fairly even over 2 games, which is why it went to pens and ours were better. Derby we were the much better team for most of the game. Again though the who 'lucky suggestion is a bit no win for Smith, in other words it wasn't his influence that got us up but it is his influence bringing us down, it's just a bit too easy. But like you say we've all got opinions on here and we all want villa to do well

You are seriously suggesting Derby were the better team ?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 13, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
No. He said we were.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2020, 10:05:48 PM
No, he isn't.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 13, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Or possibly she.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2020, 10:06:30 PM
Or possibly she.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 13, 2020, 10:07:08 PM
Did I just assume her gender incorrectly?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2020, 10:07:48 PM
Did I just assume her gender incorrectly?

I have no idea!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 13, 2020, 10:12:45 PM
Apologies RamboandBruno
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 13, 2020, 10:28:00 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 13, 2020, 10:31:23 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.

Have you been to Villa Park this season and been part of the roaring them on?  This is what we have been doing all season.  Moaning is part of the forum.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 13, 2020, 10:35:01 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.

Have you been to Villa Park this season and been part of the roaring them on?  This is what we have been doing all season.  Moaning is part of the forum.
Hi

Please donít raise the question of my support mate. Iíve been going down for 37 years. Iíve seen some shite and Iíve seen some good times. First year back under Taylor in 88/89 we could easily have got relegated. Following season, with some careful investment and loss of our talismanic centre forward we did pretty well. Iím not saying history repeats itself because football has moved on, but what we did do was back the fucking manager and we should be now.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sdwbvf on January 13, 2020, 10:35:43 PM
We've just lost to the defending champions. It did look like we came out and decided that it wasn't worth the energy after Wednesday. If we save it for the next three then so be it. But for all the meaning, we have just got 10 points from the last 8 games (I think - they do merge a bit around Christmas) and kept ourselves in for a cup final. That is not a disaster. Yes we should probably have beaten Watford and Southampton but met them just as their form took a turn, but I didn't really expect to win at Burnley. If you had asked before Newcastle if I would be happy for 10 points from the next eight I wouldn't have been devastated. We will be in the relegation mix right till the end. I hope we finish 17th or better, but it was never going to be an easy season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 13, 2020, 10:36:46 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.

Have you been to Villa Park this season and been part of the roaring them on?  This is what we have been doing all season.  Moaning is part of the forum.
Hi

Please donít raise the question of my support mate. Iíve been going down for 37 years. Iíve seen some shite and Iíve seen some good times. First year back under Taylor in 88/89 we could easily have got relegated. Following season, with some careful investment and loss of our talismanic centre forward we did pretty well. Iím not saying history repeats itself because football has moved on, but what we did do was back the fucking manager and we should be now.

Are you really just Ads in the cleverest of disguises?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 13, 2020, 10:37:48 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.

Have you been to Villa Park this season and been part of the roaring them on?  This is what we have been doing all season.  Moaning is part of the forum.
Hi

Please donít raise the question of my support mate. Iíve been going down for 37 years. Iíve seen some shite and Iíve seen some good times. First year back under Taylor in 88/89 we could easily have got relegated. Following season, with some careful investment and loss of our talismanic centre forward we did pretty well. Iím not saying history repeats itself because football has moved on, but what we did do was back the fucking manager and we should be now.

Are you really just Ads in the cleverest of disguises?

Ive no idea what this means sorry
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sdwbvf on January 13, 2020, 10:37:54 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.

Have you been to Villa Park this season and been part of the roaring them on?  This is what we have been doing all season.  Moaning is part of the forum.
Hi

Please donít raise the question of my support mate. Iíve been going down for 37 years. Iíve seen some shite and Iíve seen some good times. First year back under Taylor in 88/89 we could easily have got relegated. Following season, with some careful investment and loss of our talismanic centre forward we did pretty well. Iím not saying history repeats itself because football has moved on, but what we did do was back the fucking manager and we should be now.

Hear hear.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 13, 2020, 10:38:46 PM
Ive no idea what this means sorry

Not ta worry, and certainly no need to apologise.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 13, 2020, 10:40:11 PM
The-Ads, you are entitled to your opinion.  I would have sacked Smith by now.  However, as they haven't done it, we do indeed need to back him, even if this means that we get relegated, it's a huge gamble either way.

I didn't question your support.  I simply tried to make a point that the Villa fans are backing the team to the hilt and frankly, deserve better results on the pitch but from a bunch of players who lack motivation, organisation and confidence.  I think Dean is out of his depth but time will tell.  The owners will need to go big in this window if we are to stay up. 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 13, 2020, 10:42:45 PM
We're not messing about at the moment. When we lose, we proper lose. It makes it look worse.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: brontebilly on January 13, 2020, 10:42:56 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.

Cheer the team back to the second division? Make no mistake about it that's where we are headed without urgent reinforcements. And I'm not on about a couple of players who jacked in playing seriously years ago (Drinkwater and Reina). That's where I feel sorry for Smith to be honest as I really don't think (hope) he could possibly want those two. So if Smith goes then Suso goes too. Our recruitment was naive in the extreme last summer, Smith is inexperienced but Suso isn't.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: KevinGage on January 13, 2020, 10:44:07 PM
My gut feeling is he has up to the Watford game. Lose both (or draw one and lose one) and I think he's gone.

A new manager who isn't Erik Black will want to be able to at least bring in a player or two of his own choice to arrest the slide.

Hopefully we do Brighton away again and we don't have to think about Allardyce or similar.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on January 13, 2020, 10:52:51 PM
We've just lost to the defending champions. It did look like we came out and decided that it wasn't worth the energy after Wednesday. If we save it for the next three then so be it. But for all the meaning, we have just got 10 points from the last 8 games (I think - they do merge a bit around Christmas) and kept ourselves in for a cup final. That is not a disaster. Yes we should probably have beaten Watford and Southampton but met them just as their form took a turn, but I didn't really expect to win at Burnley. If you had asked before Newcastle if I would be happy for 10 points from the next eight I wouldn't have been devastated. We will be in the relegation mix right till the end. I hope we finish 17th or better, but it was never going to be an easy season.

I think thatís reasonably fair.

While it doesnít excuse the insipid nature of the performance, games like Sunday are much more common place with Liverpool and City so far ahead of everyone. Leicester have looked comfortably the third best team in the league yet got battered by Liverpool. At home. And didnít have a shot on target. 

It was a poor performance, but the two previous performances were decent, so depends how big a picture you want to look at I guess. (Ignoring the FA Cup because if the team canít be bother etc)

Does feel like the next three weeks will be massive though. Playing teams around us, chance of the boost of getting to a cup final and the transfer window to fix at least some of our issues.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 13, 2020, 10:55:34 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.

Cheer the team back to the second division? Make no mistake about it that's where we are headed without urgent reinforcements. And I'm not on about a couple of players who jacked in playing seriously years ago (Drinkwater and Reina). That's where I feel sorry for Smith to be honest as I really don't think (hope) he could possibly want those two. So if Smith goes then Suso goes too. Our recruitment was naive in the extreme last summer, Smith is inexperienced but Suso isn't.


Yeah but this is the Smith Out thread mate and all you are really doing is backing up my point. We are desperate for additions to the squad I agree
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on January 13, 2020, 10:57:12 PM
Ive no idea what this means sorry

Not ta worry, and certainly no need to apologise.

You are the biggest bore on here.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 13, 2020, 11:03:30 PM
Ive no idea what this means sorry

Not ta worry, and certainly no need to apologise.

You are the biggest bore on here.

Who is? Me?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on January 13, 2020, 11:08:23 PM
Ive no idea what this means sorry

Not ta worry, and certainly no need to apologise.

You are the biggest bore on here.

Who is? Me?

No, not at all.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on January 13, 2020, 11:12:21 PM
Wilder should have got the Arsenal job. His record is astounding since he took over at Sheffield United.

Well he should be on our list as/when we change and we're still in this league. He wasn't that far off taking the Sunderland two years ago IIRC.

He won't leave Sheffield United for us. He's born and bred Sheffield. Loves it here and played for the club. (He's related to a colleague of mine who attends matches as his guest and whilst I've not asked the question I'm pretty sure I don't need to. )

He nearly left because of the arguments between the owners and a lack of investment and plan.


Wilder won four trophies at Alfreton Town, took Oxford back up from non league to League Two, won the League Two title with Northampton amassing 99 points along the way, won the League One title with Sheffield United amassing 100 points along the way, won automatic promotion to the Premier League last season and they are currently sixth in the table. In the last fifteen years he probably has the best win percentage of any manager in English football.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 13, 2020, 11:13:38 PM
Ive no idea what this means sorry

Not ta worry, and certainly no need to apologise.

You are the biggest bore on here.

It's frankly silly that you even took the time to post that, but anyway we get it, Ads is your best mate and the leader of your little guild, no one cares. If you've more exciting things to be doing then piss off and do them :)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AV82EC on January 13, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
His team has been superbly crafted and drilled over the last 3 seasons as well. He picked a way to play and it works like a well oiled machine, when to press when to drop, switching play, creating overlaps, etc etc every player knows his role inside out. Itís shown in the last 5 times weíve played them.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on January 13, 2020, 11:19:25 PM
Ive no idea what this means sorry

Not ta worry, and certainly no need to apologise.

You are the biggest bore on here.

It's frankly silly that you even took the time to post that, but anyway we get it, Ads is your best mate and the leader of your little guild, no one cares. If you've more exciting things to be doing then piss off and do them :)

I don't know Ads at all.

I'm simply responding to your tiresome comments that you made throughout the City match thread.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 13, 2020, 11:20:52 PM
Err which City ?? Sorry trying to lighten the mood 🤔😃
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2020, 11:24:57 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Have you in a weird case of mistaken identity confused this thread with the teamís performance yesterday?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on January 13, 2020, 11:37:14 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Have you in a weird case of mistaken identity confused this thread with the teamís performance yesterday?


I am usually the first to call for some patience, backbone and bottle amongst the fans and the first to criticise the pants wetters and drama queens but when we are in the bottom three in the middle of January and have just lost at home 1-6 I think anyone who isn't disappointed/angry/upset and worried must be on some good medication.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 13, 2020, 11:40:09 PM
Knock it off. Now. Thank you.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2020, 11:51:00 PM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

I re-read a few pages of the Wigan post match thread while bored off site earlier. 365 days from disaster to disaster.

I guess what I learnt was, sometimes we're very very, VERY bad. But the solution isn't always to sack the manager.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2020, 11:52:24 PM
Ive no idea what this means sorry

Not ta worry, and certainly no need to apologise.

You are the biggest bore on here.

It's frankly silly that you even took the time to post that, but anyway we get it, Ads is your best mate and the leader of your little guild, no one cares. If you've more exciting things to be doing then piss off and do them :)

You do realise that the_ads (as in the old pub) and Ads (as in me) are two different posters, dont you?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on January 13, 2020, 11:54:12 PM
No, sometimes it is, though. I can't decide if that time is now, to be honest. But... we have a full week to bang heads together, having hardly had any rest since Christmas Saturday. If there is no visible improvement in the next game I'd be tempted to get rid.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 13, 2020, 11:54:18 PM
Remember when Ads was our manager?

Dark days.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2020, 11:57:27 PM
Remember when Ads was our manager?

Dark days.

Fickle bastards, the lot of ya'
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 14, 2020, 12:49:26 AM
Remember when Ads was our manager?

Dark days.

Fickle bastards, the lot of ya'

You lost me at Sugarbags tbh.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 06:56:13 AM
It's getting like SKY on here ..........too many ads :)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on January 14, 2020, 07:43:06 AM
Smith is still here? Really?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 07:50:26 AM
Smith is still here? Really?


Yes, why wouldn't he be?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 07:50:30 AM
Smith is still here? Really?

He'll stay a while.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: passport1 on January 14, 2020, 07:56:51 AM
Only as some sort of  steward.I saw him shaking everyones' hand as they left the pitch on Sunday.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: CT on January 14, 2020, 08:11:22 AM
Only as some sort of  steward.I saw him shaking everyones' hand as they left the pitch on Sunday.

He does that every game doesn't he?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: sid1964 on January 14, 2020, 08:28:15 AM
If we lose on Saturday, and next Tuesday against Watford, the Owners may decide that could be it for Smith (but I hope not).
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 14, 2020, 08:30:32 AM
If we lose on Saturday, and next Tuesday against Watford, the Owners may decide that could be it for Smith (but I hope not).
That would be too late.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on January 14, 2020, 08:39:18 AM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

Indeed. 1 point from safety in the middle of January for crying out loud.

Yup, let's ignore all the bad results and hope for the best.

Or letís all fucking moan about it and achieve the square root of fuck all. Hereís an idea yeah - we collectively roar this team on for the next 16 games, we shut this totally pointless thread down, probably the 6th of its kind last 5 years, and we concentrate on staying in the fucking division instead of breeding this negativity and ridiculous rhetoric of continually wanting managers out.

Cheer the team back to the second division? Make no mistake about it that's where we are headed without urgent reinforcements. And I'm not on about a couple of players who jacked in playing seriously years ago (Drinkwater and Reina). That's where I feel sorry for Smith to be honest as I really don't think (hope) he could possibly want those two. So if Smith goes then Suso goes too. Our recruitment was naive in the extreme last summer, Smith is inexperienced but Suso isn't.

Firstly, in terms of earlier in the thread, I WAS saying we were much better than Derby in the play off final and Iím outing myself as a bloke 😬

Secondly completely agree with ads on this, 16 games, bit of a cliche but 16 cup finals and we all need to be behind Smith and the team which Iím sure we will be.

Finally, thought Lee Hendrie made an interesting point yesterday, regarding the fact Wes was struggling before his injury and with being so light up front you would of thought Suso and the club would of had targets lined up, instead of the apparent scrambling around weíre seeing now. This says two things to me, if Wes hadnít got injured they may weíll have not got another striker in for Smith, which raises another point about him being backed sufficiently.

Given the title of this thread, this is probs a polar opposite view but if we stay up I think smith will have performed a minor miracle, given the way we got up, the overhaul of players, the imbalance in signings (1 untried striker) and the severity of the injuries to key players
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Luke8 on January 14, 2020, 09:17:52 AM


Finally, thought Lee Hendrie made an interesting point yesterday, regarding the fact Wes was struggling before his injury and with being so light up front you would of thought Suso and the club would of had targets lined up, instead of the apparent scrambling around weíre seeing now. This says two things to me, if Wes hadnít got injured they may weíll have not got another striker in for Smith, which raises another point about him being backed sufficiently.


I imagine they did have targets lined up in advance. I believe Smith spoke publicly about this. The thing is, it not as simply as just identifying the player(s) we need or want, there are lots of other factors involved. In particular selling clubs needing a replacement before agreeing to a deal as we saw we the Reina deal (and thatís a player not getting near their starting XI).
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 09:27:19 AM
Smith is still here? Really?


Yes, why wouldn't he be?

He's wanted him sacked for over a year now, so I understand his impatience.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on January 14, 2020, 10:16:22 AM
In order to at least partially justify ditching the Villa fan that got us promoted, we need to bring someone in that you can say with total confidence is considerably more likely to keep us up in the division this year, regardless of football style or long term goals. That man went to Watford last month, and most of you would have been scoffing at the idea beforehand. I honestly can't think of anyone else that is attainable that we could turn to with similar results, unless anyone else wants to enlighten me?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 10:17:52 AM
In order to at least partially justify ditching the Villa fan that got us promoted, we need to bring someone in that you can say with total confidence is considerably more likely to keep us up in the division this year, regardless of football style or long term goals. That man went to Watford last month, and most of you would have been scoffing at the idea beforehand. I honestly can't think of anyone else that is attainable that we could turn to with similar results, unless anyone else wants to enlighten me?

Pearson inherited a half-decent squad at Watford that hasn't had much change since safely finishing mid-table last season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on January 14, 2020, 10:31:09 AM
Good point, but the turnaround is still incredible. As we've said, individually most of our players look good enough but together they look poor for the most part. That's where someone like he comes in.

I do think Smith has had bad luck with the injuries though, if they stick with him it's no problem to me.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Reuben on January 14, 2020, 10:33:43 AM
What's Dwight Yorke up to these days?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on January 14, 2020, 10:37:04 AM
This thread is a pile of shit.

Have some fucking backbone folks, for fucks sake.

I re-read a few pages of the Wigan post match thread while bored off site earlier. 365 days from disaster to disaster.

I guess what I learnt was, sometimes we're very very, VERY bad. But the solution isn't always to sack the manager.

There have been lots and lots of dreadful performances under Smith though in the past 15 months. Certainly if another manager had produced some of those performances they would have been criticised far more heavily. As youíve said before, yes there have been performances like Derby away, Middlesbrough away last season, but thereís only really been a handful of games since he arrived where weíve actually genuinely played well. Even during Grealishís ten game run, we were poor at Sheffield Wednesday and got a smash and grab, were dreadful in the first half at Rotherham etc. Other than those ten games, and the few before Grealish getting injured, itís been generally extremely poor. The performances against Swansea in the cup, Wigan, Southampton and Sunday were the absolute worst of the worst, definitely as bad as anything Iíve ever seen a Villa side produce. I think Sunday was worse than the Chelsea 8-0, and I sat through the entirety of both of those. People say they love Smiths Ďphilosophyí,but what I see generally is a complete shambles. I donít really know what his football is. The players evidently arenít being coached.

I really donít care whether heís a Villa fan. Heís got away with far more than he should as a result and itís harming the club. I want the best person for the job and Dean Smith most definitely is not that. People say give him the next two to sort it out, itís too late once weíve lost those so get him gone before to give us a chance
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 14, 2020, 10:38:09 AM
What's Dwight Yorke up to these days?
We're too racist to employee Dwight.  That's the ONLY reason he hasn't got a top job so far.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 10:46:21 AM
I wonder if any other manager faces the same, utterly nonsensical, criticism of having his best players available to them? Using those best players so well, dragged us from mid-table to promotion and doing something this club has never done in the process.

Its bizarre. Almost as bizarre as saying Smith is immune from criticism when people wanted him sacked after Wigan and we type on page 60 (for mobile users) of the Smith out thread.

And nothing was worse than Chelsea. The absolute Smith out dogma and determination to be right leads to some severe contortion of argument. Chelsea was worse because we conceded more goals against a side not as good as Man City. They also missed a penalty that day too.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on January 14, 2020, 11:00:42 AM
I wonder if any other manager faces the same, utterly nonsensical, criticism of having his best players available to them? Using those best players so well, dragged us from mid-table to promotion and doing something this club has never done in the process.

Its bizarre. Almost as bizarre as saying Smith is immune from criticism when people wanted him sacked after Wigan and we type on page 60 (for mobile users) of the Smith out thread.

And nothing was worse than Chelsea. The absolute Smith out dogma and determination to be right leads to some severe contortion of argument. Chelsea was worse because we conceded more goals against a side not as good as Man City. They also missed a penalty that day too.

But the having his best players available to him argument doesnít work. People say he needs time to get this set of players to gel, but they forget he didnít get a different set of players to gel in the championship before Grealish came back to save him. He still had Tammy Abraham, Mcginn etc before Derby at home, and look what he produced. He produced three months of utter dross. It was one player that changed it, because Smith certainly didnít try anything tactically to do anything. Itís not as though this season is the first time heís massively struggling, we saw it last season as well. Iím not trying to distort things to suit an argument, the fact is, before Grealish came back we were absolutely awful last season. If he hadnít come back and weíd been left to Smiths management, weíd have finished towards the lower end of the championship.

Iím not saying Chelsea wasnít appalling, of course it was. And Smith does still have people onboard because heís a Villa fan. Despite you disagreeing, I just think Smith really isnít a very good manager
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: russon on January 14, 2020, 11:06:17 AM
The fact is that, without Grealish, Smith would have been dead and buried last season and this. Only when Jack came back from injury was our season kick started last year and without him this season weíd be down already. Heís effectively turned us into a one trick pony.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 11:08:59 AM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2020, 11:14:17 AM
It wasn't single-handed, but Jack and Grealish effectively got us up between them.  By far the best midfielder and defender in the Championship.  As for this season, well it's obviously the Premier League rather than the Championship, and instead of Tammy we've had Wesley.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 11:14:58 AM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?



Because the poster doesn't like the manager, wanted him sacked after Wigan, mid-January and only a couple of games into the poor run until Stoke, he was wrong and keeps labouring a bizarre point endlessly.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on January 14, 2020, 11:17:30 AM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?


Itís not a bizarre point Ads. Itís a fairly obvious point if you have the viewpoint and I appreciate you donít and never will.

Grealish was quite a bit older playing under Smith than under di Matteo. Grealish was good for Bruce, but yes Bruce was finished after the play off final. People forget we won seven in a row under Bruce and there was only 90 mins difference between what Smith and Bruce did. Grealish admitted himself his head wasnít right at the beginning of last season. And the reason we havenít seen Jack have the same effect this season is because in the championship he was head and shoulders above everybody else. He doesnít have that advantage in the Premier League
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 14, 2020, 11:24:17 AM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?


Itís not a bizarre point Ads. Itís a fairly obvious point if you have the viewpoint and I appreciate you donít and never will.

Grealish was quite a bit older playing under Smith than under di Matteo. Grealish was good for Bruce, but yes Bruce was finished after the play off final. People forget we won seven in a row under Bruce and there was only 90 mins difference between what Smith and Bruce did. Grealish admitted himself his head wasnít right at the beginning of last season. And the reason we havenít seen Jack have the same effect this season is because in the championship he was head and shoulders above everybody else. He doesnít have that advantage in the Premier League

So Jack Grealish, the most influential player in Championship history according to you, was nowhere near as good in October as he was in March.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 11:26:14 AM
It wasn't single-handed, but Jack and Grealish effectively got us up between them.  By far the best midfielder and defender in the Championship.  As for this season, well it's obviously the Premier League rather than the Championship, and instead of Tammy we've had Wesley.

I agree, it would be great if there were two of him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: russon on January 14, 2020, 11:57:03 AM
Iím simply saying that without Grealish we are completely and utterly useless, with him we arenít very good but at least have a fighting chance. He really is as critical to us as that and Smithís to blame, spewing millions on garbage players.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on January 14, 2020, 12:03:23 PM
Iím simply saying that without Grealish we are completely and utterly useless, with him we arenít very good but at least have a fighting chance. He really is as critical to us as that and Smithís to blame, spewing millions on garbage players.

Yes Smith also seems to get a pass regarding the signings. Itís all Susoís fault, yet Smith clearly said in the summer that heíd been scouting Wesley for a long time and the night before Fulham in the cup, Smith was meeting with Suso and Purslow to talk about about signings. Smith is as much to blame for the transfers as anybody else. Bruce left us with one centre back 18 months ago and got rightly criticised, Smith gets away with blaming Suso for having one forward 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 14, 2020, 12:05:45 PM
Iím simply saying that without Grealish we are completely and utterly useless, with him we arenít very good but at least have a fighting chance. He really is as critical to us as that and Smithís to blame, spewing millions on garbage players.
Do you really think Smith wanted Wesley over Maupay and Nakamba over Philips?  Just think what a difference just those two players could have made to our season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on January 14, 2020, 12:10:10 PM
Iím simply saying that without Grealish we are completely and utterly useless, with him we arenít very good but at least have a fighting chance. He really is as critical to us as that and Smithís to blame, spewing millions on garbage players.
Do you really think Smith wanted Wesley over Maupay and Nakamba over Philips?  Just think what a difference just those two players could have made to our season.

Thatís something we donít know for sure though. The fact is, Smith is the manager, and if another manager had left us in that position there would be uproar. He isnít judged by the same set of rules
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 14, 2020, 12:12:25 PM
Iím simply saying that without Grealish we are completely and utterly useless, with him we arenít very good but at least have a fighting chance. He really is as critical to us as that and Smithís to blame, spewing millions on garbage players.
Do you really think Smith wanted Wesley over Maupay and Nakamba over Philips?  Just think what a difference just those two players could have made to our season.

Thatís something we donít know for sure though. The fact is, Smith is the manager, and if another manager had left us in that position there would be uproar. He isnít judged by the same set of rules
Smith isn't the manager.  The club have always been at pains to tell us he's head coach.  That suggests to me less of a role in recruitment than might otherwise be the case.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clark W Griswold on January 14, 2020, 12:25:14 PM
Iím simply saying that without Grealish we are completely and utterly useless, with him we arenít very good but at least have a fighting chance. He really is as critical to us as that and Smithís to blame, spewing millions on garbage players.

Yes Smith also seems to get a pass regarding the signings. Itís all Susoís fault, yet Smith clearly said in the summer that heíd been scouting Wesley for a long time and the night before Fulham in the cup, Smith was meeting with Suso and Purslow to talk about about signings. Smith is as much to blame for the transfers as anybody else. Bruce left us with one centre back 18 months ago and got rightly criticised, Smith gets away with blaming Suso for having one forward

Smith had to virtually build a new squad and team for the PL, bringing in what was it, a dozen players? We look light in one area, well with that much work to do it happens. I'm getting a bit twitchy as to whether they've done enough to sort it in January but thats another story.
Bruce, however, had nothing like the work to do and left us with the situation he did at centre back with no excuse.

As for Grealish getting us up, he did play a big part but no more than Mings for me. We went from a terrifying shit show defence to an impenetrable fortress once he came in. A combination of Mings, Grealish, McGinn and Smith were the difference with some token nice moments from others to put the icing on it. Grealish has been our best player this season though, no doubt.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Griswold is spot on. For someone to come on here and say it was Grealish who got us up whilst totally ignoring  the work of Smith, his back room staff and the rest of the squad is outrageous. Not wanting to give Smith any credit at all is also rather petty. Ketzer does not like Smith, we get it. It's in his every post.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2020, 01:11:50 PM
It wasn't single-handed, but Jack and Grealish effectively got us up between them.  By far the best midfielder and defender in the Championship.  As for this season, well it's obviously the Premier League rather than the Championship, and instead of Tammy we've had Wesley.

I agree, it would be great if there were two of him.

God, I do that all the time, sorry.  Jack and Mings.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2020, 01:13:15 PM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?


Itís not a bizarre point Ads. Itís a fairly obvious point if you have the viewpoint and I appreciate you donít and never will.

Grealish was quite a bit older playing under Smith than under di Matteo. Grealish was good for Bruce, but yes Bruce was finished after the play off final. People forget we won seven in a row under Bruce and there was only 90 mins difference between what Smith and Bruce did. Grealish admitted himself his head wasnít right at the beginning of last season. And the reason we havenít seen Jack have the same effect this season is because in the championship he was head and shoulders above everybody else. He doesnít have that advantage in the Premier League

So Jack Grealish, the most influential player in Championship history according to you, was nowhere near as good in October as he was in March.

Player in dip in form before rediscovering it shocker.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on January 14, 2020, 01:15:47 PM
It wasn't single-handed, but Jack and Grealish effectively got us up between them.  By far the best midfielder and defender in the Championship.  As for this season, well it's obviously the Premier League rather than the Championship, and instead of Tammy we've had Wesley.

I agree, it would be great if there were two of him.

God, I do that all the time, sorry.  Jack and Mings.

Ha. Everyone does it and everyone understood it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: rougegorge on January 14, 2020, 01:25:11 PM
Iím simply saying that without Grealish we are completely and utterly useless, with him we arenít very good but at least have a fighting chance. He really is as critical to us as that and Smithís to blame, spewing millions on garbage players.

Yes Smith also seems to get a pass regarding the signings. Itís all Susoís fault, yet Smith clearly said in the summer that heíd been scouting Wesley for a long time and the night before Fulham in the cup, Smith was meeting with Suso and Purslow to talk about about signings. Smith is as much to blame for the transfers as anybody else. Bruce left us with one centre back 18 months ago and got rightly criticised, Smith gets away with blaming Suso for having one forward

Smith had to virtually build a new squad and team for the PL, bringing in what was it, a dozen players? We look light in one area, well with that much work to do it happens. I'm getting a bit twitchy as to whether they've done enough to sort it in January but thats another story.
Bruce, however, had nothing like the work to do and left us with the situation he did at centre back with no excuse.

As for Grealish getting us up, he did play a big part but no more than Mings for me. We went from a terrifying shit show defence to an impenetrable fortress once he came in. A combination of Mings, Grealish, McGinn and Smith were the difference with some token nice moments from others to put the icing on it. Grealish has been our best player this season though, no doubt.

Bruce and whover was in recruitment got huge criticism at the start of last season and beyond, but there were some migitating circumstances with the club's whole future up in the air.

Smith has certainly had far more of a free pass than Bruce or other managers ever received, but recruitment and style of play this season have been very poor.

I want Smith to succeed, but I think may already be too late. Norwich aside, we need to find two teams that are worse than us, and I can't see the projection working out well unless somnehting changes now.

Only one of our remaining home games is against a team in the bottom half - Watford.
So, given our bad away record and the fact that we've amassed just a single point out of a possible 33 from the current top 10, albeit most of these have been away, the maths just doesn't add up.

If we go down, there will be no ongoing project; we will start from square one again, or more likely 'square minus 1',  next season.


Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 01:41:21 PM
Bournemouth appear a lot worse. 9 defeats in 11 and more open than us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 01:44:37 PM
It wasn't single-handed, but Jack and Grealish effectively got us up between them.  By far the best midfielder and defender in the Championship.  As for this season, well it's obviously the Premier League rather than the Championship, and instead of Tammy we've had Wesley.

I agree, it would be great if there were two of him.

God, I do that all the time, sorry.  Jack and Mings.

Ha. Everyone does it and everyone understood it.

And I enjoyed it! 😉
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 01:45:13 PM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?


Itís not a bizarre point Ads. Itís a fairly obvious point if you have the viewpoint and I appreciate you donít and never will.

Grealish was quite a bit older playing under Smith than under di Matteo. Grealish was good for Bruce, but yes Bruce was finished after the play off final. People forget we won seven in a row under Bruce and there was only 90 mins difference between what Smith and Bruce did. Grealish admitted himself his head wasnít right at the beginning of last season. And the reason we havenít seen Jack have the same effect this season is because in the championship he was head and shoulders above everybody else. He doesnít have that advantage in the Premier League

So Jack Grealish, the most influential player in Championship history according to you, was nowhere near as good in October as he was in March.

Player in dip in form before rediscovering it shocker.

Under a new manager...
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on January 14, 2020, 01:51:58 PM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?


Itís not a bizarre point Ads. Itís a fairly obvious point if you have the viewpoint and I appreciate you donít and never will.

Grealish was quite a bit older playing under Smith than under di Matteo. Grealish was good for Bruce, but yes Bruce was finished after the play off final. People forget we won seven in a row under Bruce and there was only 90 mins difference between what Smith and Bruce did. Grealish admitted himself his head wasnít right at the beginning of last season. And the reason we havenít seen Jack have the same effect this season is because in the championship he was head and shoulders above everybody else. He doesnít have that advantage in the Premier League

So Jack Grealish, the most influential player in Championship history according to you, was nowhere near as good in October as he was in March.

Player in dip in form before rediscovering it shocker.

Under a new manager...

Ok, but why was Smith unable to get a tune out of the other good players he had before Grealish came back? If he was such a good coach why did we see three months of appalling football and performances like the Wigan one? Iíd have expected a good coach to try and do something about it. One player alone shouldnít have made such a dramatic difference if the coaching was good. He didnít come up with a game plan or try a different formation to counteract the fact Grealish was out. He just played the same 4-3-3 despite it not working for the best part of 3 months
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 14, 2020, 01:55:18 PM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?


Itís not a bizarre point Ads. Itís a fairly obvious point if you have the viewpoint and I appreciate you donít and never will.

Grealish was quite a bit older playing under Smith than under di Matteo. Grealish was good for Bruce, but yes Bruce was finished after the play off final. People forget we won seven in a row under Bruce and there was only 90 mins difference between what Smith and Bruce did. Grealish admitted himself his head wasnít right at the beginning of last season. And the reason we havenít seen Jack have the same effect this season is because in the championship he was head and shoulders above everybody else. He doesnít have that advantage in the Premier League

So Jack Grealish, the most influential player in Championship history according to you, was nowhere near as good in October as he was in March.

Player in dip in form before rediscovering it shocker.

Under a new manager...

Ok, but why was Smith unable to get a tune out of the other good players he had before Grealish came back? Why did we see performances like Wigan away, Reading etc if he was such a good coach?

Sometimes footballers don't play very well.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TheMalandro on January 14, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
So what you're saying is that Grealish single-handedly got us a 10-win streak? If Grealish was that good, why didn't we have that run under Bruce? or Di Matteo etc? And why haven't we had it this season?


Itís not a bizarre point Ads. Itís a fairly obvious point if you have the viewpoint and I appreciate you donít and never will.

Grealish was quite a bit older playing under Smith than under di Matteo. Grealish was good for Bruce, but yes Bruce was finished after the play off final. People forget we won seven in a row under Bruce and there was only 90 mins difference between what Smith and Bruce did. Grealish admitted himself his head wasnít right at the beginning of last season. And the reason we havenít seen Jack have the same effect this season is because in the championship he was head and shoulders above everybody else. He doesnít have that advantage in the Premier League

So Jack Grealish, the most influential player in Championship history according to you, was nowhere near as good in October as he was in March.

Player in dip in form before rediscovering it shocker.

Under a new manager...

Ok, but why was Smith unable to get a tune out of the other good players he had before Grealish came back? Why did we see performances like Wigan away, Reading etc if he was such a good coach?

Sometimes footballers don't play very well.

I'm glad I've not had to see that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mike on January 14, 2020, 02:04:20 PM
Itís probably going too far to say Jack got us up single handed. McGinn, Mings and Abraham were outstanding players in that league. However, Jack was undoubtedly the catalyst for us getting promoted. I remember warning my lad we were probably going to get beaten against Derby because we were playing so poorly. Jack lifted everyone that day and subsequently. Plus, he admits he lied to Tammy that he would be back much quicker than he was in order to stop him leaving in January.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 02:13:27 PM
We didn't have 3 months of appalling football. We didn't play well against Leeds on the 23rd, with Leeds looking very slick. Lost by a really daft error with the last kick of the game thanks to Elmo, bounced back at Swansea with an improved 2nd half. We were then flat largely until 23rd February away at Stoke.

In that time we drew games with QPR, Hull and Reading, when we perhaps should have won. We drew against Sheddield United in crazy circumstances; 82 minutes poor  but showed extreme bottle to rescue it.

We had no defenders during much of this till Mings came in. We also had an FA Cup 3rd round exit in ignominious circumstances and a horror show at Wigan.

So really, we had a poor 7 weeks. Not disastrous, far too many draws in much vaunted winnable games.

Perhaps best to avoid exaggerating. It's a bit like this site when we win, easily avoided.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 02:18:16 PM
And there lies the irony ÖÖÖÖ.. we would be in a much better position this season if we had played out a few draws
Is that down to being too open or just plain poor defending?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ketzster on January 14, 2020, 02:36:04 PM
We didn't have 3 months of appalling football. We didn't play well against Leeds on the 23rd, with Leeds looking very slick. Lost by a really daft error with the last kick of the game thanks to Elmo, bounced back at Swansea with an improved 2nd half. We were then flat largely until 23rd February away at Stoke.

In that time we drew games with QPR, Hull and Reading, when we perhaps should have won. We drew against Sheddield United in crazy circumstances; 82 minutes poor  but showed extreme bottle to rescue it.

We had no defenders during much of this till Mings came in. We also had an FA Cup 3rd round exit in ignominious circumstances and a horror show at Wigan.

So really, we had a poor 7 weeks. Not disastrous, far too many draws in much vaunted winnable games.

Perhaps best to avoid exaggerating. It's a bit like this site when we win, easily avoided.

We evidently watch the game very differently and thatís fine. I thought, and the people I go with thought we were appalling at Reading and we were absolutely dire in the first half against Hull. We most certainly did not deserve to win at Reading. My main point is, all of the things that people are moaning about this season were happening last season and because Smith doesnít seem to have the ability to really change, I keep moaning about it. Sorry!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 02:44:33 PM
We drew 0-0 in a game where nothing happened, save Mings trod on somebody's face. If you think Reading was appalling then you must run out of abjectives quicker than perspective.

I dont care if you moan, what I think you're doing is exaggerating  because you wanted Smith sacked after 3 months of being in charge. You got that wrong but you keep labouring your view.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on January 14, 2020, 03:30:09 PM
or you are labouring yours?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 04:57:25 PM
or you are labouring yours?

No, PWS summed him up succinctly. At least you're miserable 365 days of the year, rather than popping up when things go badly.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: tomd2103 on January 14, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
We didn't have 3 months of appalling football. We didn't play well against Leeds on the 23rd, with Leeds looking very slick. Lost by a really daft error with the last kick of the game thanks to Elmo, bounced back at Swansea with an improved 2nd half. We were then flat largely until 23rd February away at Stoke.

In that time we drew games with QPR, Hull and Reading, when we perhaps should have won. We drew against Sheddield United in crazy circumstances; 82 minutes poor  but showed extreme bottle to rescue it.

We had no defenders during much of this till Mings came in. We also had an FA Cup 3rd round exit in ignominious circumstances and a horror show at Wigan.

So really, we had a poor 7 weeks. Not disastrous, far too many draws in much vaunted winnable games.

Perhaps best to avoid exaggerating. It's a bit like this site when we win, easily avoided.

Appalling may be stretching a bit Ads, but we did look fairly clueless at times during that period last season without Grealish (our league position during that time reflected that) and that was always a bit of a niggling feeling even though we went on an excellent run at the end of the season and ended up going up. 

I donít think the whole season has been a disaster at all and pre Leicester at home, it had been pretty encouraging even though our league position might not have fully reflected it.  What has followed that Leicester game, however, has been largely poor and has raised the same questions as last season as to whether Dean Smith has the ability and experience to change things when he canít call on a standout player.

I like Dean Smith and still hope he can change things around.  I do feel some sympathy for him, as he has had to mould a virtually new team this season in the harsh environment of the top flight and it has started to bite for a few of the younger players.  His team selections and some of his comments in recent weeks, however, have been those of a manager struggling to find solutions to his teamís problems.

Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on January 14, 2020, 05:45:25 PM
Smith may or may not be up to managing in the this league at the minute, but to suggest he's a chancer/and/or lucky to get us promoted(you don't win ten games in a row by being lucky) is quite plainly bollocks.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on January 14, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
Me miserable? no oh mighty Ads - but you are undeniably a  hubristic twit who brooks no alternative opinion on an opinion site.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 05:51:56 PM
Me miserable? no oh mighty Ads - but you are undeniably a  hubristic twit who brooks no alternative opinion on an opinion site.

I challenge what I dont agree with, it's what generates traffic. I enjoy my opinion being challenged, do you not like yours?

You're very down beat, is that not a fair reflection? Today alone you've speculated that we have no money, as if being beaten 6-1 recently wasn't bad enough.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 14, 2020, 05:54:39 PM
Let's have a bt less abuse of each other.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 14, 2020, 06:02:24 PM
And there lies the irony ÖÖÖÖ.. we would be in a much better position this season if we had played out a few draws
Is that down to being too open or just plain poor defending?
Itís been down to the managers game management and poor decision making mostly.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wince on January 14, 2020, 06:08:46 PM
We are all a happy bunch on here. I do think smith is out of his depth but if we get a result out of the next 2, we are hardly cut adrift. Iím undecided if he should go . Part says yes part says no. But will we end up playing the manager Hokey Cokey for every 18 months? I reckon that the rumours of a rift with terry and smith may be rubbing off and I would get rid of terry given his lack of coaching nous.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 06:29:51 PM
We are all a happy bunch on here. I do think smith is out of his depth but if we get a result out of the next 2, we are hardly cut adrift. I’m undecided if he should go . Part says yes part says no. But will we end up playing the manager Hokey Cokey for every 18 months? I reckon that the rumours of a rift with terry and smith may be rubbing off and I would get rid of terry given his lack of coaching nous.
Hey Wince, I wonder if Terry can play up front? Allegedly, he is good at playing away from home, so maybe we should give him a chance 
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on January 16, 2020, 06:53:00 PM
Just an observation, I once saw us get run ragged by Arsenal and lose 2-6 at home back in the eighties. The player who mainly tore the arse out of us was Perry bloody Groves, scored a hat trick I think....for younger posters he was no Aguero, De Bruyne, Mahrez etc.

Sometimes teams struggling get hammered by better teams and teams and players lose confidence, but historically for villa, particularly in recent history getting rid of the manager hasnít worked. Whether we end up getting relegated or not I see no benefit in getting rid of smith now, for some chancer like Allardyce, as thatís all weíre likely to get at this stage of the season.

As for Grealish influence, he was undoubtedly the catalyst for the run last year, like hundreds of players have been similar catalysts for other teams. But to indicate he was the main or only influence isnít accurate, as the run went on his form actually dipped, what he did provide the team with was belief and importantly balance. I think Mings, tuanzebe, Abrahamís and to a lesser extent whealan (unbelievably) became equally important as the run went on. Itís important I think not to rewrite history to suit the fact some people want smith out.

Jacks been out best player this season no doubt, but interestingly I think our best home performance this season was Liverpool when he wasnít available, but inane but footballs just as much about confidence, maybe a new player or two will kick start us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: kipeye on January 16, 2020, 07:05:12 PM
I'm kinda afraid to big up smith as I so want him to succeed. For me, what has happened since the departure of spanner face has been as good as I would ever have realistically hoped. I thought they bought brilliantly in the summer, but the Preeemier proved harder than I thought at least. A lot of teams like Burnley, Bournemouth, Southampton etc didn't look that good to me. Well they are have proven a few years on top money does indeed improve a side, as does the playing experience. You only have to look at some of our so-called cast-offs to see that.
Smith may or may not succeed in the long term, but he deserves a full shot. If you complain about Suso or the owners, you want your head examining. We had a lot of accumulated problems to overcome and they have done us proud so far.
I am sure there are managers that could take us further and quicker to safety but if we do drop this year, Smith would be my choice to get us back up.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: LeeB on January 16, 2020, 07:08:21 PM
I'm kinda afraid to big up smith as I so want him to succeed. For me, what has happened since the departure of spanner face has been as good as I would ever have realistically hoped. I thought they bought brilliantly in the summer, but the Preeemier proved harder than I thought at least. A lot of teams like Burnley, Bournemouth, Southampton etc didn't look that good to me. Well they are have proven a few years on top money does indeed improve a side, as does the playing experience. You only have to look at some of our so-called cast-offs to see that.
Smith may or may not succeed in the long term, but he deserves a full shot. If you complain about Suso or the owners, you want your head examining. We had a lot of accumulated problems to overcome and they have done us proud so far.
I am sure there are managers that could take us further and quicker to safety but if we do drop this year, Smith would be my choice to get us back up.

Well said mate.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on January 16, 2020, 07:11:29 PM
I'm kinda afraid to big up smith as I so want him to succeed. For me, what has happened since the departure of spanner face has been as good as I would ever have realistically hoped. I thought they bought brilliantly in the summer, but the Preeemier proved harder than I thought at least. A lot of teams like Burnley, Bournemouth, Southampton etc didn't look that good to me. Well they are have proven a few years on top money does indeed improve a side, as does the playing experience. You only have to look at some of our so-called cast-offs to see that.
Smith may or may not succeed in the long term, but he deserves a full shot. If you complain about Suso or the owners, you want your head examining. We had a lot of accumulated problems to overcome and they have done us proud so far.
I am sure there are managers that could take us further and quicker to safety but if we do drop this year, Smith would be my choice to get us back up.

Seconded, weíll said
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 16, 2020, 07:19:21 PM
I'm kinda afraid to big up smith as I so want him to succeed. For me, what has happened since the departure of spanner face has been as good as I would ever have realistically hoped. I thought they bought brilliantly in the summer, but the Preeemier proved harder than I thought at least. A lot of teams like Burnley, Bournemouth, Southampton etc didn't look that good to me. Well they are have proven a few years on top money does indeed improve a side, as does the playing experience. You only have to look at some of our so-called cast-offs to see that.
Smith may or may not succeed in the long term, but he deserves a full shot. If you complain about Suso or the owners, you want your head examining. We had a lot of accumulated problems to overcome and they have done us proud so far.
I am sure there are managers that could take us further and quicker to safety but if we do drop this year, Smith would be my choice to get us back up.

Seconded, weíll said

Thirded. Also, "spanner face" made me chuckle.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan For Life on January 16, 2020, 07:24:36 PM
I think we have to move away from the ďitís not working, sack himĒ after 18 months mentality. Off the top off my head weíve had 7 managers since OíNeill flounced out less than 10 yeas ago. Thatís not a recipe for stability or success and ultimately the club suffers. Obviously there has to come a point where a managerís position becomes untenable, but I donít think we are there yet. The owners are still backing him in the transfer market and theyíre unlikely to do that if theyíre about to get rid.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 16, 2020, 08:13:56 PM
I think we have to move away from the ďitís not working, sack himĒ after 18 months mentality. Off the top off my head weíve had 7 managers since OíNeill flounced out less than 10 yeas ago. Thatís not a recipe for stability or success and ultimately the club suffers. Obviously there has to come a point where a managerís position becomes untenable, but I donít think we are there yet. The owners are still backing him in the transfer market and theyíre unlikely to do that if theyíre about to get rid.

Agree with both this and earlier post from Kipeye, we need stability to build a team. We have tried changing manager every 12/18 months, since Lambert, without success. We knew it would be tough in this division, but swapping and changing isn't the answer
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 16, 2020, 08:51:33 PM
I think managers need 3 transfer windows at least - unless they're a total disaster. Garde style.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on January 16, 2020, 09:06:19 PM
I think we have to move away from the ďitís not working, sack himĒ after 18 months mentality. Off the top off my head weíve had 7 managers since OíNeill flounced out less than 10 yeas ago. Thatís not a recipe for stability or success and ultimately the club suffers. Obviously there has to come a point where a managerís position becomes untenable, but I donít think we are there yet. The owners are still backing him in the transfer market and theyíre unlikely to do that if theyíre about to get rid.

Agree with both this and earlier post from Kipeye, we need stability to build a team. We have tried changing manager every 12/18 months, since Lambert, without success. We knew it would be tough in this division, but swapping and changing isn't the answer

Another in agreement here
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: garyshawsknee on January 16, 2020, 09:10:37 PM
Be interesting to read the letters page of Feb 89 issue of H and V to see if people were calling for SGT to be sacked.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: walsall villain on January 16, 2020, 09:10:42 PM
I think we have to move away from the ďitís not working, sack himĒ after 18 months mentality. Off the top off my head weíve had 7 managers since OíNeill flounced out less than 10 yeas ago. Thatís not a recipe for stability or success and ultimately the club suffers. Obviously there has to come a point where a managerís position becomes untenable, but I donít think we are there yet. The owners are still backing him in the transfer market and theyíre unlikely to do that if theyíre about to get rid.

Agree with both this and earlier post from Kipeye, we need stability to build a team. We have tried changing manager every 12/18 months, since Lambert, without success. We knew it would be tough in this division, but swapping and changing isn't the answer

Another in agreement here
I do to but as posted there are limits. If you go on an awful run then something has to give. This year was always going to be very difficult. 5 out of the last 6 play off final winners went down first year. The sixth, Huddersfield, lasted 2 seasons. Why people thought we were different I donít know.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 16, 2020, 09:24:28 PM
Relegation, or even likely relegation, is the cut off point though for me.  There's no point stabilising in the Championship.  It took us three years to get out last time.  By which time everyone in the Premier League will have moved on that bit further.  I can't see how Dean is going to get to grips with top flight management if he's not in it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 16, 2020, 09:34:22 PM
Relegation, or even likely relegation, is the cut off point though for me.  There's no point stabilising in the Championship.  It took us three years to get out last time.  By which time everyone in the Premier League will have moved on that bit further.  I can't see how Dean is going to get to grips with top flight management if he's not in it.

You are talking as if we are down already. It's our first season back up.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 16, 2020, 09:38:59 PM
Relegation, or even likely relegation, is the cut off point though for me.  There's no point stabilising in the Championship.  It took us three years to get out last time.  By which time everyone in the Premier League will have moved on that bit further.  I can't see how Dean is going to get to grips with top flight management if he's not in it.

You are talking as if we are down already. It's our first season back up.
I'm really not.  I said relegation or even likely relegation is the cut off point and we haven't reached that point yet.  But we need points, and quickly.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 16, 2020, 09:40:19 PM
Relegation, or even likely relegation, is the cut off point though for me.  There's no point stabilising in the Championship.  It took us three years to get out last time.  By which time everyone in the Premier League will have moved on that bit further.  I can't see how Dean is going to get to grips with top flight management if he's not in it.

You are talking as if we are down already. It's our first season back up.

We're in the relegation zone.

While not a dead cert, it's really not that hard to imagine being relegated.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 16, 2020, 10:34:55 PM
I donít think smith has been great overall this season. But this transfer window, on top of the shit summer, make me feel increasingly like heís not our biggest problem.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 17, 2020, 06:48:26 AM
Relegation, or even likely relegation, is the cut off point though for me.  There's no point stabilising in the Championship.  It took us three years to get out last time.  By which time everyone in the Premier League will have moved on that bit further.  I can't see how Dean is going to get to grips with top flight management if he's not in it.

You are talking as if we are down already. It's our first season back up.
I'm really not.  I said relegation or even likely relegation is the cut off point and we haven't reached that point yet.  But we need points, and quickly.

Personally, if I was offered 17th now, I'd take it. It keeps us in the division and it gives us something to build on.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 17, 2020, 09:21:48 AM
Relegation, or even likely relegation, is the cut off point though for me.  There's no point stabilising in the Championship.  It took us three years to get out last time.  By which time everyone in the Premier League will have moved on that bit further.  I can't see how Dean is going to get to grips with top flight management if he's not in it.

You are talking as if we are down already. It's our first season back up.
I'm really not.  I said relegation or even likely relegation is the cut off point and we haven't reached that point yet.  But we need points, and quickly.

Personally, if I was offered 17th now, I'd take it. It keeps us in the division and it gives us something to build on.

I very much doubt there's anyone on here who would disagree with that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 17, 2020, 09:35:05 AM
I donít think smith has been great overall this season. But this transfer window, on top of the shit summer, make me feel increasingly like heís not our biggest problem.
I agree.

From various comments it does seem Smith seems to be distancing himself from the transfers.  He says what type of player he wants and suso goes and get them.  He wanted an Abraham and a Philips and ended up with Wesley & Nakamba.  He wanted a Benrahma and got Trezuget.  He wanted Maupay and got nobody.  I reckon if Smith had got what he wanted, we'd be in a far better place.  I appreciate Abraham wasn't available and the price of the others was too high, but I do think if Smith had got the players he wanted we'd be doing fine now.  Whilst individually each playet bought in the summer may come good, collectively the business done does feel very naieve for a newly promoted inexperienced team.

I'm sure people will quote Smith saying he signed off the transfers and was happy with them at the time.  What else was he going to say? "Wesley looks ok but to be honest I'd have much preferred someone with more experience"?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Rudy65 on January 17, 2020, 09:41:30 AM
Relegation, or even likely relegation, is the cut off point though for me.  There's no point stabilising in the Championship.  It took us three years to get out last time.  By which time everyone in the Premier League will have moved on that bit further.  I can't see how Dean is going to get to grips with top flight management if he's not in it.

You are talking as if we are down already. It's our first season back up.
I'm really not.  I said relegation or even likely relegation is the cut off point and we haven't reached that point yet.  But we need points, and quickly.

Personally, if I was offered 17th now, I'd take it. It keeps us in the division and it gives us something to build on.

I would have taken that back in August and obviously still would now
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: GarTomas on January 17, 2020, 09:56:48 AM
I donít think smith has been great overall this season. But this transfer window, on top of the shit summer, make me feel increasingly like heís not our biggest problem.
I agree.

From various comments it does seem Smith seems to be distancing himself from the transfers.  He says what type of player he wants and suso goes and get them.  He wanted an Abraham and a Philips and ended up with Wesley & Nakamba.  He wanted a Benrahma and got Trezuget.  He wanted Maupay and got nobody.  I reckon if Smith had got what he wanted, we'd be in a far better place.  I appreciate Abraham wasn't available and the price of the others was too high, but I do think if Smith had got the players he wanted we'd be doing fine now.  Whilst individually each playet bought in the summer may come good, collectively the business done does feel very naieve for a newly promoted inexperienced team.

I'm sure people will quote Smith saying he signed off the transfers and was happy with them at the time.  What else was he going to say? "Wesley looks ok but to be honest I'd have much preferred someone with more experience"?

If we ignore the fact that Suso may not be the right person for that role, isnít that the kind of scouting setup we want though?

When weíve changed managers previously itís led to large inflated squads with several players drawing wages who arenít in the first team picture.

Isnít the idea we have a preferred style of play and player and to build continuity?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Drummond on January 17, 2020, 10:12:48 AM
I reckon if Smith had got what he wanted, we'd be in a far better place.  I appreciate Abraham wasn't available and the price of the others was too high, but I do think if Smith had got the players he wanted we'd be doing fine now. 

I'm sure people will quote Smith saying he signed off the transfers and was happy with them at the time.  What else was he going to say? "Wesley looks ok but to be honest I'd have much preferred someone with more experience"?

To be fair, I think every team on the planet would feel they'd be in a better place if the manager got exactly what they wanted too. I'll have Messi, Van Dijk, Hazard, Lewandowski.........

Reality isn't ideal though. Abraham and Maupay weren't available (at least not for the right money).
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: chrisw1 on January 17, 2020, 12:40:21 PM
I reckon if Smith had got what he wanted, we'd be in a far better place.  I appreciate Abraham wasn't available and the price of the others was too high, but I do think if Smith had got the players he wanted we'd be doing fine now. 

I'm sure people will quote Smith saying he signed off the transfers and was happy with them at the time.  What else was he going to say? "Wesley looks ok but to be honest I'd have much preferred someone with more experience"?

To be fair, I think every team on the planet would feel they'd be in a better place if the manager got exactly what they wanted too. I'll have Messi, Van Dijk, Hazard, Lewandowski.........

Reality isn't ideal though. Abraham and Maupay weren't available (at least not for the right money).
Of course.  But Maupay was available, as was Benrahma, Watkins and probably Philips.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: mr underhill on January 17, 2020, 02:40:38 PM
of course, but at more money than we were prepared to pay - just like Webster, too.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 17, 2020, 02:54:24 PM
Webster isn't very popular amongst Brighton fans, they want him dropped for Saturday.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 17, 2020, 03:05:38 PM
They could drop all their cbs as there's no striker to mark.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 17, 2020, 03:16:19 PM
I'd imagine El Ghazi will play up front. I hope they drop their centre backs, itnwould certainly make winning easier.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: cdbullyweefan on January 17, 2020, 08:21:48 PM
Webster isn't very popular amongst Brighton fans, they want him dropped for Saturday.

Thought he was brilliant against us. Must just be another bastard that raises his game against Villa, then. 😡
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Demitri_C on January 18, 2020, 03:54:07 PM
45 minutes to save his job
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: levico on January 18, 2020, 03:54:20 PM
Hello?

Nobody here?

Iíll come back later.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 18, 2020, 03:59:54 PM
They won't sack Smith because we managed to get up a year ahead of schedule so they have accepted that we were under-prepared in the summer, although no excuses for it in January.  That said, this is an excuse and they needed to grasp the mettle, look that gift-horse in the mouth.  Who gives a fuck we got up ahead of schedule?  Take that chance.  What is also shows me, if and when we go back down, if Smith brings us back up, he's already shown that he's not a Manager for this level, even with the experience of this season.  Too late to bin him now as I don't think there's anyone out there who would really want it, unless they are a mercenary, got nothing to lose shyster like Sam fatfuck.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wince on January 18, 2020, 04:01:12 PM
Iím sadly in the make the change camp. Get us safe and go from there. We simply cannot afford to get relegated
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 18, 2020, 04:01:14 PM
Would getting rid of him actually make any difference? We look doomed at the moment.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 18, 2020, 04:02:45 PM
Would getting rid of him actually make any difference? We look doomed at the moment.
We have to try though.  No point throwing in the towel because this manager is taking us down - get another manager.  At the very least we'll be able to say we tried to turn it around.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 18, 2020, 04:04:46 PM
Where is Purslow? Like, where is he? Why is this acceptable? Smith was found out weeks ago and I am starting to dislike the whole set-up.

No point going up to go back down.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: KRS on January 18, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
Lose today and he can go for me. He's completely lost the plot and all his mistakes/poor decisions are coming to a head (whether or not he's responsible for all of them is open to debate to be fair). We're nailed on going down with Dean so we have to roll the dice to at least try to stay up.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villafirst on January 18, 2020, 04:09:36 PM
He should've gone after the Watford no show. It would've at least given the new Manager the whole of January to bring his own players in. What have we done? An ageing keeper and Danny Drinkwater ffs. A disgrace!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TonyD on January 18, 2020, 04:09:38 PM
Getting relegated again I can take.  Quite enjoyed the Championship.

The crime will be losing Jack.  That will be hard.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 18, 2020, 04:11:48 PM
The Championship was an utter humiliation. Getting turned over by the Brentfords of the footballing world and having part of our stand closed.

No thanks.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Vill I An on January 18, 2020, 04:12:16 PM
Still backing him
If turnaround then others would support him too
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: levico on January 18, 2020, 04:12:32 PM
I donít accept the argument that thereís no point in sacking him because of the apparent lack of viable alternatives. There are always options if you are ambitious enough.

Love what the owners have done but if they sit back and watch us go down without decisive action then theyíre not the excellent businessmen I thought they were.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villan82 on January 18, 2020, 04:16:20 PM
Maybe Purslow is too close to Smith? Is that the issue? He is too invested in the 'Smith project'?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wince on January 18, 2020, 04:17:15 PM
Still backing him
If turnaround then others would support him too

Still support him but his style is exactly this. We win or lose. A couple of draws would see us safer but it isnít working as he has no plan to grind the results we need
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 18, 2020, 04:27:19 PM
If we lose today, and Dean gets the tap on the shoulder, I donít think he can moan.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on January 18, 2020, 04:59:15 PM
Would getting rid of him actually make any difference? We look doomed at the moment.

Not now. Too late.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 18, 2020, 05:01:49 PM
I'd like to say he's hanging in there by a thread, but with Jack saving his bacon and the fact that Purslow (mistakenly) backs him, he is staying.  Big week coming up with Watford on Tuesday and the continued transfer window.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 18, 2020, 05:02:58 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on January 18, 2020, 05:03:43 PM
I literally cannot believe all the talk on here of sacking smith mid match, especially when it was only 1-0 at the time. Even if Iím not at a game, like today, Iím totally fecking embroiled in it whether Iím listening to the radio or watching tv. That is a really decent point today, Weíre not cut adrift and that is a very decent point today, I think the anti smith brigade should just reign it in and support the bloody team till the end of the season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nii Lamptey on January 18, 2020, 05:03:53 PM
I don't get the perseverance from some fans to keep him. Have they not seen what utter shite his teams have spewed up?

Fair enough, you go with the flow if a manager shows promise, but do any of you TRUTHFULLY think that Dean Smith is going to turn us into a top six side? He didn't even get us promoted from the Championship, Jack Grealish did that.

We should have said thankyou very much in December, and got a manager in with a bit of top level nouse. We're going down, and thanks to FFP, it doesn't matter one iota how much money our owners have.... cos they're not going to be able to spend a dime of it! We'll lose the handful of decent players we have, and we'll be down there for the long haul.   :(
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 18, 2020, 05:04:03 PM
How about supporting instead of being negative. Beat Watford on tuesday and bournemouth in a couple of games time and things will look a whole lot better. When the going gets tough you need some faith.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Risso on January 18, 2020, 05:04:58 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Twitterís over there óó-> go and play with the other morons.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 18, 2020, 05:06:00 PM
I don't get the perseverance from some fans to keep him. Have they not seen what utter shite his teams have spewed up?

Fair enough, you go with the flow if a manager shows promise, but do any of you TRUTHFULLY think that Dean Smith is going to turn us into a top six side? He didn't even get us promoted from the Championship, Jack Grealish did that.

Wow - Jack Grealish decided to bring back Steer, play Tuanzebe in his proper position and sign Mings? Who knew?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 18, 2020, 05:06:24 PM
Heís not doing very well. Tactically weíre a mess. Jack is keeping us from completely collapsing at the moment.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 18, 2020, 05:06:33 PM
I don't get the perseverance from some fans to keep him. Have they not seen what utter shite his teams have spewed up?

Fair enough, you go with the flow if a manager shows promise, but do any of you TRUTHFULLY think that Dean Smith is going to turn us into a top six side? He didn't even get us promoted from the Championship, Jack Grealish did that.

Wow - Jack Grealish decided to bring back Steer, play Tuanzebe in his proper position and sign Mings? Who knew?

Ha!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nii Lamptey on January 18, 2020, 05:07:41 PM
How about supporting instead of being negative. Beat Watford on tuesday and bournemouth in a couple of games time and things will look a whole lot better. When the going gets tough you need some faith.
Have you seen our performances this season? Why on earth do you think we're capable of beating them?!

Bournemouth maybe (as they're as shite as us at the mo), but no way we'll get anything out of the Watford game.  I'd have Pearson at Villa Park tomorrow!
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 18, 2020, 05:07:41 PM
I think smith is very lucky to have managed us at the same time grealish became the player we knew he was. How many games has he now dragged us through, regardless of tactics and whatever shite is going on around him?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nii Lamptey on January 18, 2020, 05:15:18 PM
I don't get the perseverance from some fans to keep him. Have they not seen what utter shite his teams have spewed up?

Fair enough, you go with the flow if a manager shows promise, but do any of you TRUTHFULLY think that Dean Smith is going to turn us into a top six side? He didn't even get us promoted from the Championship, Jack Grealish did that.

Wow - Jack Grealish decided to bring back Steer, play Tuanzebe in his proper position and sign Mings? Who knew?

None of those decisions were rocket science though were they? Our keepers were abysmal, and we were all shouting for Steer to come back into the fold, same with Tuanzebe moving to CB, and Mings, I'll give you that one, but with his injury history, could have been another Drinkwater.

We were shocking before Jack came back, and NONE of us thought we had a hope in hell of the playoffs - Smith just couldn't get us to function without him in the team. The Championship couldn't get near him, and I'd bet my life on us not getting half of those results without his performances in the tail half of last season.

Smith's just not very good. He's been shown up on tactics, training and signings this season when up against the big boys, and has shown a stubborness that he's not willing to learn from his mistakes.

We all have our own opinions and I respect that, and I do honestly hope he can turn it around, but based off what he's dished up this season (and last season without Grealish, because that's what he's going to have to contend with next season), I don't think he's got the answer.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 18, 2020, 05:19:14 PM
I don't get the perseverance from some fans to keep him. Have they not seen what utter shite his teams have spewed up?

Fair enough, you go with the flow if a manager shows promise, but do any of you TRUTHFULLY think that Dean Smith is going to turn us into a top six side? He didn't even get us promoted from the Championship, Jack Grealish did that.

Wow - Jack Grealish decided to bring back Steer, play Tuanzebe in his proper position and sign Mings? Who knew?

None of those decisions were rocket science though were they? Our keepers were abysmal, and we were all shouting for Steer to come back into the fold, same with Tuanzebe moving to CB, and Mings, I'll give you that one, but with his injury history, could have been another Drinkwater.

We were shocking before Jack came back, and NONE of us thought we had a hope in hell of the playoffs - Smith just couldn't get us to function without him in the team. The Championship couldn't get near him, and I'd bet my life on us not getting half of those results without his performances in the tail half of last season.

Smith's just not very good. He's been shown up on tactics, training and signings this season when up against the big boys, and has shown a stubborness that he's not willing to learn from his mistakes.

We all have our own opinions and I respect that, and I do honestly hope he can turn it around, but based off what he's dished up this season (and last season without Grealish, because that's what he's going to have to contend with next season), I don't think he's got the answer.

Well, if you're going to write off every positive decision he's made as 'not rocket science', credit everything else to Jack and hold your negative viewpoint of what the future holds as fact, then I can understand why you're left with a purely negative opinion, yes.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Villafirst on January 18, 2020, 05:21:29 PM
Confidence is rock bottom at the moment. Confidence is a massive factor in any sport.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: richardhubbard on January 18, 2020, 05:23:02 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 18, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
Smith made a great signing in Mings.  But playing Tuanzebe in his natural position isn't rocket science is it?  A bit like asking Alan Shearer to go and play centre forward.  Steer was a better keeper than the others last season and a new Manager is always going to make different decisions to freshen things up a little.  Jack absolutely DID pull our season round, no doubts about that whatsoever.  All that said, it's all about the here and now, not what happened lasts season, that's gone.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 18, 2020, 05:24:05 PM
Well, if you're going to write off every positive decision he's made as 'not rocket science', credit everything else to Jack and hold your negative viewpoint of what the future holds as fact, then I can understand why you're left with a purely negative opinion, yes.
Smith's job last season was to get us up, which he did and it was fantastic.  But that's not his job anymore.  This season his job is to keep us up, and he's not doing it very well at all.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 18, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Well, if you're going to write off every positive decision he's made as 'not rocket science', credit everything else to Jack and hold your negative viewpoint of what the future holds as fact, then I can understand why you're left with a purely negative opinion, yes.
Smith's job last season was to get us up, which he did and it was fantastic.  But that's not his job anymore.  This season his job is to keep us up, and he's not doing it very well at all.

Now do you want to put my quote in context?

The point I was arguing with was that he had no input into our promotion.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 18, 2020, 05:26:42 PM
Well, if you're going to write off every positive decision he's made as 'not rocket science', credit everything else to Jack and hold your negative viewpoint of what the future holds as fact, then I can understand why you're left with a purely negative opinion, yes.
Smith's job last season was to get us up, which he did and it was fantastic.  But that's not his job anymore.  This season his job is to keep us up, and he's not doing it very well at all.

Now do you want to put my quote in context?
Not sure I follow you.  I'm just contributing, like everyone else.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: four fornicholl on January 18, 2020, 05:26:57 PM
You can only piss with the cock you've got, so it's a keep this season. Two more decent signings and I hope we'll have enough. Prayer mat out.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Axl Rose on January 18, 2020, 05:33:47 PM
I like Smith for what he did last season, and the hope he gave us once more, but he's been pretty shit this season. Today was painful to watch, devoid of any tactical knowhow...it was as bad as anything served up by cretins like Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Black, Bruce, Di Matteo, Houllier and McLeish.

An important week for him now. If he persists with such shit tactics, he's fucked.

I've wet my pants, and have even soaked through three nappies.  What else is there to do when we play so abysmally? 2/10 is how I'd score our team and manager this season.

Crap, Dean.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on January 18, 2020, 05:34:28 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

Spot on and same goes for SheffieldVillian. There are people on here who want smith to fail, who are delusional and believe we could draw someone like Poch here for a relegation battle, or would take a corrupt chancer like Allardyce and refuse to remember the shambles of sacking managers mid season last time we were up.

The same people were bemoaning smith for sticking stubbornly to 433 and then when heís changed to 352 or whatever itís still not good enough.

For these people smith had nothing to do with us getting promoted and everything to do with our struggles this season. It really is a load of old bollocks and I struggle to understand the tunnel vision on here.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 18, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
Hello?

Nobody here?

Iíll come back later.

Dont bother.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 18, 2020, 05:38:32 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

Spot on and same goes for SheffieldVillian. There are people on here who want smith to fail, who are delusional and believe we could draw someone like Poch here for a relegation battle, or would take a corrupt chancer like Allardyce and refuse to remember the shambles of sacking managers mid season last time we were up.

The same people were bemoaning smith for sticking stubbornly to 433 and then when heís changed to 352 or whatever itís still not good enough.

For these people smith had nothing to do with us getting promoted and everything to do with our struggles this season. It really is a load of old bollocks and I struggle to understand the tunnel vision on here.

Two things.  You are equally as intransigent with your own view that Dean Smith is Mr Wonderful as those on here who feel he needs to go, which I do as this is about the here and now and NOT last season.  Secondly, if you really don't like the tunnel vision, post elsewhere?  It is all about opinions, be more accepting of others opinions eh?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 18, 2020, 05:40:03 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

Spot on and same goes for SheffieldVillian. There are people on here who want smith to fail, who are delusional and believe we could draw someone like Poch here for a relegation battle, or would take a corrupt chancer like Allardyce and refuse to remember the shambles of sacking managers mid season last time we were up.

The same people were bemoaning smith for sticking stubbornly to 433 and then when heís changed to 352 or whatever itís still not good enough.

For these people smith had nothing to do with us getting promoted and everything to do with our struggles this season. It really is a load of old bollocks and I struggle to understand the tunnel vision on here.

Sorry thatís exactly the same as anyone who is blinkered to Smith doing anything right. The truth lies in the middle, but I think itís clear heís been making mistakes that need correcting. Not everything that goes wrong is his fault, but the manager is always going to be accountable either way.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 18, 2020, 05:40:07 PM
And people wanting smith to fail? What a load of shite.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 18, 2020, 05:42:01 PM
Yep. I think everyone wants Villa to be good, which too frequently in the last month or so we havenít been. There are some mitigations, but equally thereís stuff we could have done much much better.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: passport1 on January 18, 2020, 05:44:25 PM
I think some people ( me included) just don't think he is very good at this level.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 18, 2020, 05:46:12 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

Spot on and same goes for SheffieldVillian. There are people on here who want smith to fail, who are delusional and believe we could draw someone like Poch here for a relegation battle, or would take a corrupt chancer like Allardyce and refuse to remember the shambles of sacking managers mid season last time we were up.

The same people were bemoaning smith for sticking stubbornly to 433 and then when heís changed to 352 or whatever itís still not good enough.

For these people smith had nothing to do with us getting promoted and everything to do with our struggles this season. It really is a load of old bollocks and I struggle to understand the tunnel vision on here.

Two things.  You are equally as intransigent with your own view that Dean Smith is Mr Wonderful as those on here who feel he needs to go, which I do as this is about the here and now and NOT last season.  Secondly, if you really don't like the tunnel vision, post elsewhere?  It is all about opinions, be more accepting of others opinions eh?

If it is all about opinions, surely he should be allowed to post that he really doesn't like the 'tunnel vision' without being told to post elsewhere?

For what it's worth, of course there are things that Smith could have done much better this season. Not believing that is as crazy as saying that he has made no positive contribution (which is the post I was disagreeing with earlier). I'm not yet at the Smith Out stage myself but can understand those that are.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Fred Crump on January 18, 2020, 05:48:36 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Twitterís over there óó-> go and play with the other morons.

The Mods seemingly arenít going to say it , so I will. Knock it off, both of you. No more Ďbed wettingí comments and no more calling people morons because they disagree with you please.  We are all Villa fans, and itís a discussion forum about our football team -weíre better than that. Sermon over.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: wince on January 18, 2020, 05:51:48 PM
I canít stand the nastiness between fans to be honest. We all want villa to do well. I would never want a manager to fail but it is clear that Smith is struggling to find the formula in keeping us stable. Yes 17th would be great. But is that all we can hope for? Brentford had the same tune out of Smith as we do. Today is the exception as we managed a draw but it is win or lose with little impact on the bench to make a difference but it is the entire coaching team. Something isnít quite right at the moment. However do we risk going down again? Would we even come back up with ffp looming if we return? It isnít bed wetting but serious concern that we cannot cope losing players. We should have back ups competent to play in those positions as injuries are inevitable no matter who you are. The second half today shows fight and some hope we will fight to get up the table but what if it doesnít happen? I will back whatever manager we have to the hilt but it doesnít mean if I donít think they are suited that Iím a lesser fan. Itís more disappointment that the hope of the summer has fizzled into poor performances and daft decisions to not get a strike force. I hope Dean pulls us out of the mix as I genuinely like him and he has the makings of a cracking manager. But is it a gamble keeping him?
But can we at least play nice with each other on here? Just because I disagree with you doesnít mean I dislike you.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: themossman on January 18, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
I donít mind people disagreeing with me about smith, itís all about views. People inferring other posters on here want villa to fail is patently ridiculous.

There are several scenarios from here. For me personally, the best is that smith turns it around and keeps us up. But I happen to think, based on recent performances, including today, that weíd have a better chance with a change of personnel. What about that suggests I want smith to fail?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 18, 2020, 05:54:56 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Twitterís over there óó-> go and play with the other morons.

The Mods seemingly arenít going to say it , so I will. Knock it off, both of you. No more Ďbed wettingí comments and no more calling people morons because they disagree with you please.  We are all Villa fans, and itís a discussion forum about our football team -weíre better than that. Sermon over.

This mod would have said it if he'd seen it. Pack in the arseyness and namecalling.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 18, 2020, 05:56:28 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Twitterís over there óó-> go and play with the other morons.

The Mods seemingly arenít going to say it , so I will. Knock it off, both of you. No more Ďbed wettingí comments and no more calling people morons because they disagree with you please.  We are all Villa fans, and itís a discussion forum about our football team -weíre better than that. Sermon over.

A Mod will comment if need be when they actually see the post made. Be nice. Everyone.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 18, 2020, 05:57:40 PM
Slight amendment made to poll on request. The option to change your vote is now there.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 18, 2020, 05:57:48 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on January 18, 2020, 05:59:02 PM
If we had the same points at the same stage as in last season's table we would be sitting 14th, 3 points clear of the bottom 3, Fulham were already 5 points from safety having only won 3 games. We are in a dog fight but we are still in there fighting and picking up points from teams around us. I wouldn't give up on Smith yet.

It's been a while since I wet the bed.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 18, 2020, 06:01:16 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

Spot on and same goes for SheffieldVillian. There are people on here who want smith to fail, who are delusional and believe we could draw someone like Poch here for a relegation battle, or would take a corrupt chancer like Allardyce and refuse to remember the shambles of sacking managers mid season last time we were up.

The same people were bemoaning smith for sticking stubbornly to 433 and then when heís changed to 352 or whatever itís still not good enough.

For these people smith had nothing to do with us getting promoted and everything to do with our struggles this season. It really is a load of old bollocks and I struggle to understand the tunnel vision on here.

Two things.  You are equally as intransigent with your own view that Dean Smith is Mr Wonderful as those on here who feel he needs to go, which I do as this is about the here and now and NOT last season.  Secondly, if you really don't like the tunnel vision, post elsewhere?  It is all about opinions, be more accepting of others opinions eh?

If it is all about opinions, surely he should be allowed to post that he really doesn't like the 'tunnel vision' without being told to post elsewhere?

For what it's worth, of course there are things that Smith could have done much better this season. Not believing that is as crazy as saying that he has made no positive contribution (which is the post I was disagreeing with earlier). I'm not yet at the Smith Out stage myself but can understand those that are.

I have no argument with you Sheffield as I respect the fact that our opinions differ.  But for me, it would be really helpful if people didn't come on here and use the word 'delusional'.  Pisses me off enormously as it is completely dismissive of other posters opinions.  Telling him to post elsewhere, gives him an option, rather than referring to other posters as delusional.  I appreciate that I am not a mod and call also post elsewhere, but I prefer to post here but don't wish to be described as a delusional poster, because I think Dean has been fairly awful this season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Legion on January 18, 2020, 06:01:52 PM
Be nice. Please.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: ez on January 18, 2020, 06:02:01 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

I think the owners are going with this opinion and Smith was always going to be unsackable this season.  We've just got to go with it and see what happens.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 18, 2020, 06:02:57 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

Spot on and same goes for SheffieldVillian. There are people on here who want smith to fail, who are delusional and believe we could draw someone like Poch here for a relegation battle, or would take a corrupt chancer like Allardyce and refuse to remember the shambles of sacking managers mid season last time we were up.

The same people were bemoaning smith for sticking stubbornly to 433 and then when heís changed to 352 or whatever itís still not good enough.

For these people smith had nothing to do with us getting promoted and everything to do with our struggles this season. It really is a load of old bollocks and I struggle to understand the tunnel vision on here.

Two things.  You are equally as intransigent with your own view that Dean Smith is Mr Wonderful as those on here who feel he needs to go, which I do as this is about the here and now and NOT last season.  Secondly, if you really don't like the tunnel vision, post elsewhere?  It is all about opinions, be more accepting of others opinions eh?

If it is all about opinions, surely he should be allowed to post that he really doesn't like the 'tunnel vision' without being told to post elsewhere?

For what it's worth, of course there are things that Smith could have done much better this season. Not believing that is as crazy as saying that he has made no positive contribution (which is the post I was disagreeing with earlier). I'm not yet at the Smith Out stage myself but can understand those that are.

I have no argument with you Sheffield as I respect the fact that our opinions differ.  But for me, it would be really helpful if people didn't come on here and use the word 'delusional'.  Pisses me off enormously as it is completely dismissive of other posters opinions.  Telling him to post elsewhere, gives him an option, rather than referring to other posters as delusional.  I appreciate that I am not a mod and call also post elsewhere, but I prefer to post here but don't wish to be described as a delusional poster, because I think Dean has been fairly awful this season.

He didn't. He said posters who thought we could attract someone like Poch here for a relegtion battle were delusional. Which isn't an unfair point of view.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Newby on January 18, 2020, 06:04:24 PM
Depends how you read it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 18, 2020, 06:05:02 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

Thank you Dean? You do know we are playing with two wingers up front. We maybe got an undeserved draw but it's a point and it may be a much needed one come the end of the season.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Ads on January 18, 2020, 06:05:52 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

We were the better side second half.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Nii Lamptey on January 18, 2020, 06:07:39 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

We were the better side second half.

*Less shite side   ;)
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 18, 2020, 06:08:14 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

You won't be told again.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: frank black on January 18, 2020, 06:09:37 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

Totally with you on this, I just donít get this in/out thread at all. He has earned total respect and we are pretty much where a lot of us expected us to be. Yes mistakes have been made both on and off the pitch, but no one would expect it was going to be easy considering the amount of recruiting and injuries. Iím 100% behind Deano and hope others can rustle up some faith in him.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 18, 2020, 06:09:37 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

We were the better side second half.

I thought that.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 18, 2020, 06:10:05 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

Thank you Dean? You do know we are playing with two wingers up front. We maybe got an undeserved draw but it's a point and it may be a much needed one come the end of the season.

We were absolutely shocking in the first half. That had nothing to do with not having any forwards. We didnít win the ball, we didnít keep possession, we didnít close them down fast enough, we didnít even get any shots on goal to force a save. Thatís not good enough.

Yes of course this is a massive point, and thank fuck we have one of the very best players in the league playing for us. But we got lucky and maybe this provides a catapult to our game vs Watford. What I absolutely take exception to is some sycophant tell us we are bed wetting having just got a draw in a game we were mostly second best against the mighty Brighton.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: DB on January 18, 2020, 06:10:17 PM
We can't afford to lose on Tues, Smith has to get this one right. Otherwise Watford will be 4 points ahead of us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 18, 2020, 06:11:38 PM
Depends how you read it.

Using standard rules of English punctuation. There were three classes of posters mentioned in the sentence separated by commas and with the use of 'or' before the last sentence. Those who want Smith to fail, those who are delusional and think a manager like Poch would come, and those who would take a chancer like Allardyce and have forgotten the manager turnover last time. You've misread it.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 18, 2020, 06:12:48 PM
You're on fire today, Sheffield.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: RamboandBruno on January 18, 2020, 06:13:39 PM
Seriously donít get it , july 18 we were bankrupt , jan 19 we were mid table in the championship.

Smith made mistakes but we still fighting and 3 points off 14th and in cup semi final and if we get 2 strikers as he trying to get we probably stay up .

Which is what we all hoped for , having lost 2 of his best 3 players .

Spot on and same goes for SheffieldVillian. There are people on here who want smith to fail, who are delusional and believe we could draw someone like Poch here for a relegation battle, or would take a corrupt chancer like Allardyce and refuse to remember the shambles of sacking managers mid season last time we were up.

The same people were bemoaning smith for sticking stubbornly to 433 and then when heís changed to 352 or whatever itís still not good enough.

For these people smith had nothing to do with us getting promoted and everything to do with our struggles this season. It really is a load of old bollocks and I struggle to understand the tunnel vision on here.

Two things.  You are equally as intransigent with your own view that Dean Smith is Mr Wonderful as those on here who feel he needs to go, which I do as this is about the here and now and NOT last season.  Secondly, if you really don't like the tunnel vision, post elsewhere?  It is all about opinions, be more accepting of others opinions eh?

If it is all about opinions, surely he should be allowed to post that he really doesn't like the 'tunnel vision' without being told to post elsewhere?

For what it's worth, of course there are things that Smith could have done much better this season. Not believing that is as crazy as saying that he has made no positive contribution (which is the post I was disagreeing with earlier). I'm not yet at the Smith Out stage myself but can understand those that are.

I have no argument with you Sheffield as I respect the fact that our opinions differ.  But for me, it would be really helpful if people didn't come on here and use the word 'delusional'.  Pisses me off enormously as it is completely dismissive of other posters opinions.  Telling him to post elsewhere, gives him an option, rather than referring to other posters as delusional.  I appreciate that I am not a mod and call also post elsewhere, but I prefer to post here but don't wish to be described as a delusional poster, because I think Dean has been fairly awful this season.

He didn't. He said posters who thought we could attract someone like Poch here for a relegtion battle were delusional. Which isn't an unfair point of view.

Thanks for that Sheffield.

I didnít call any individual delusional and to be honest I wouldnít as I canít be arsed to get into all that back biting. But there has been posts, possibly on this thread but definitely on others that have said we should go out and get Poch and personally I think that is delusional.

I donít think Smith is mr wonderful, the juryís out whether heíll be a success in the long term, I just think the criticism is OTT and a bit unfair.

Iíve posted on this thread because I wanted to show that there are some who donít want smith out at the moment. But hey ho
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 18, 2020, 06:14:01 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

Thank you Dean? You do know we are playing with two wingers up front. We maybe got an undeserved draw but it's a point and it may be a much needed one come the end of the season.

We were absolutely shocking in the first half. That had nothing to do with not having any forwards. We didnít win the ball, we didnít keep possession, we didnít close them down fast enough, we didnít even get any shots on goal to force a save. Thatís not good enough.

Yes of course this is a massive point, and thank fuck we have one of the very best players in the league playing for us. But we got lucky and maybe this provides a catapult to our game vs Watford. What I absolutely take exception to is some sycophant tell us we are bed wetting having just got a draw in a game we were mostly second best against the mighty Brighton.

I've just told you - pack in the insults or you won't be telling anyone anything.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 18, 2020, 06:14:11 PM
I donít want Smith to fail. Heís doing that himself. I donít want Allardyce either but Iíd take him to ensure we remain a PL club. I donít think heís a chancer. There is nothing in his management record to suggest he was ever lucky. Is he a shady character? Yep. The two topics are separate. I donít think for a second Poch would come to us.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Damo70 on January 18, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
I canít stand the nastiness between fans to be honest. We all want villa to do well. I would never want a manager to fail but it is clear that Smith is struggling to find the formula in keeping us stable. Yes 17th would be great. But is that all we can hope for? Brentford had the same tune out of Smith as we do. Today is the exception as we managed a draw but it is win or lose with little impact on the bench to make a difference but it is the entire coaching team. Something isnít quite right at the moment. However do we risk going down again? Would we even come back up with ffp looming if we return? It isnít bed wetting but serious concern that we cannot cope losing players. We should have back ups competent to play in those positions as injuries are inevitable no matter who you are. The second half today shows fight and some hope we will fight to get up the table but what if it doesnít happen? I will back whatever manager we have to the hilt but it doesnít mean if I donít think they are suited that Iím a lesser fan. Itís more disappointment that the hope of the summer has fizzled into poor performances and daft decisions to not get a strike force. I hope Dean pulls us out of the mix as I genuinely like him and he has the makings of a cracking manager. But is it a gamble keeping him?
But can we at least play nice with each other on here? Just because I disagree with you doesnít mean I dislike you.


To be fair I think most clubs in the bottom half of the table would have been hit as hard as we have been in recent weeks if they had the injuries we have had to key players. Although the lack of striker options should and could have been avoided.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 18, 2020, 06:16:30 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

Thank you Dean? You do know we are playing with two wingers up front. We maybe got an undeserved draw but it's a point and it may be a much needed one come the end of the season.

We were absolutely shocking in the first half. That had nothing to do with not having any forwards. We didnít win the ball, we didnít keep possession, we didnít close them down fast enough, we didnít even get any shots on goal to force a save. Thatís not good enough.

Yes of course this is a massive point, and thank fuck we have one of the very best players in the league playing for us. But we got lucky and maybe this provides a catapult to our game vs Watford. What I absolutely take exception to is some sycophant tell us we are bed wetting having just got a draw in a game we were mostly second best against the mighty Brighton.

I've just told you - pack in the insults or you won't be telling anyone anything.

And where was his warning for calling people bed wetters?
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 18, 2020, 06:16:37 PM
You're on fire today, Sheffield.

Once a teacher, always a teacher... we can't help ourselves, it's the curse of the profession.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 18, 2020, 06:16:42 PM
I donít want Smith to fail. Heís doing that himself. I donít want Allardyce either but Iíd take him to ensure we remain a PL club. I donít think heís a chancer. There is nothing in his management record to suggest he was ever lucky. Is he a shady character? Yep. The two topics are separate. I donít think for a second Poch would come to us.
I think he would
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Clampy on January 18, 2020, 06:17:23 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

Thank you Dean? You do know we are playing with two wingers up front. We maybe got an undeserved draw but it's a point and it may be a much needed one come the end of the season.

We were absolutely shocking in the first half. That had nothing to do with not having any forwards. We didnít win the ball, we didnít keep possession, we didnít close them down fast enough, we didnít even get any shots on goal to force a save. Thatís not good enough.

Yes of course this is a massive point, and thank fuck we have one of the very best players in the league playing for us. But we got lucky and maybe this provides a catapult to our game vs Watford. What I absolutely take exception to is some sycophant tell us we are bed wetting having just got a draw in a game we were mostly second best against the mighty Brighton.

But we were playing without a striker and sometimes you have to take what you can. They had two up front and neither of them scored. Just enjoy the point  and take it from there. Sometimes, getting something from the game is more important than how you have played. Today away from home was one of them.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: The_ads on January 18, 2020, 06:17:39 PM
Why donít you fuck off! I havenít been abusive, itís an absolute fact that when we go 1-0 down this thread goes to the top again. Donít suppose youíll get your knuckles wrapped like others do. Fucking joke


*edit* fuck it, had it with this site. Laterz
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 18, 2020, 06:18:27 PM
You're on fire today, Sheffield.

Once a teacher, always a teacher... we can't help ourselves, it's the curse of the profession.

Tell me about it. I'm marrying one this year.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 18, 2020, 06:19:06 PM
I canít stand the nastiness between fans to be honest. We all want villa to do well. I would never want a manager to fail but it is clear that Smith is struggling to find the formula in keeping us stable. Yes 17th would be great. But is that all we can hope for? Brentford had the same tune out of Smith as we do. Today is the exception as we managed a draw but it is win or lose with little impact on the bench to make a difference but it is the entire coaching team. Something isnít quite right at the moment. However do we risk going down again? Would we even come back up with ffp looming if we return? It isnít bed wetting but serious concern that we cannot cope losing players. We should have back ups competent to play in those positions as injuries are inevitable no matter who you are. The second half today shows fight and some hope we will fight to get up the table but what if it doesnít happen? I will back whatever manager we have to the hilt but it doesnít mean if I donít think they are suited that Iím a lesser fan. Itís more disappointment that the hope of the summer has fizzled into poor performances and daft decisions to not get a strike force. I hope Dean pulls us out of the mix as I genuinely like him and he has the makings of a cracking manager. But is it a gamble keeping him?
But can we at least play nice with each other on here? Just because I disagree with you doesnít mean I dislike you.


For what it's worth, this is a bloody brilliant post.
Title: Re: Smith out
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 18, 2020, 06:20:36 PM
More bed wetting on here I see. Knee jerk as usual.

Oh do fuck off. Just what I imagined Villa to be. Second best to Brighton and a bit of magic away from another humiliating defeat. Thank you Dean. Thank you.

Thank you Dean? You do know we are playing with two wingers up front. We maybe got an undeserved draw but it's a point and it may be a much needed one come the end of the season.

We were absolutely shocking in the first half. That had nothing to do with not having any forwards. We didnít win the ball, we didnít keep possession, we didnít close them down fast enough, we didnít even get any shots on goal to force a save. Thatís not good enough.