Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 04:53:02 PM
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Awful, got exactly what we deserved. First time this season i've been really fucked off with the result and performance. Massive few games coming up now, if we don't step it up then we are in trouble.
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Wes or Kodj, now you see it doesn’t matter as they are isolated. We could put Aguero up there and it would make no difference. Deans pressing game seems to have disappeared and I fear he’s beginning to panic and not stick to his principles
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Absolute toss. We are in a world of trouble.
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Awful, got exactly what we deserved. First time this season i've been really fucked off with the result and performance. Massive few games coming up now, if we don't step it up then we are in trouble.
Agree word for word.
Our ball retention is horrific.
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This is beginning to feel a litle like the season we went down. On the pitch anyway. Where we were all cautiously optimistic with the summer signings. Veretout on the pitch, Gana, Ayew. And while all those players had talent as has been proven since, it just didn't happen at all when playing for us. We looked disjointed and the manager simply didn't have the first clue on how to fix it. Now of course things were a lot worse off it which gives me some hope that this can be corrected, even through a drastic step like change of manager. But right now, as it stands our decline is steep and incredibly alarming. I don't see three worse teams than us and morale everywhere is dropping fast.
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Awful, again. Outplayed from the 1st minute to the last. Miserable.
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merge with mine please Mr Shin
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They were better in every aspect of the game. Our players looked like they knew that from minute one. Terrible.
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Simply very worrying to me how flat we've gone at such a crucial stage of the season, echoes of this time last year when we fell down the championship table.
We're really struggling in the final third now. McGinn been off colour for weeks so that's a big scoring threat gone from the first 10 games. Wes simply shouldn't be starting nows but we have little else and now missing penalties.
The next 3 are massive. In the state we're in now I think we're going to struggle to get even 5 points which will probably not be good enough in the long run.
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Southampton only need a point at home to West Ham and we're in the bottom three.
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Think we are in a massive dip right now, couldn't care less about the Liverpool game, we need to focus on the Premiership, Dean Smith is walking on very thin ice and its thawing very fast.
Crap game.
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I hope the owners have a plan B.
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Shite. Look knackered and clueless. I can't say I hugely enjoy the Premier League but I'd really like us to stay in it for longer than five minutes.
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Just not good enough, nowhere near good enough.
Going down, I’m afraid.
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Absolutely shocking.
Sheff U' played above themselves and like a real team. Nasty, fit, tough, quick and first to the ball every time.
Us, lethargic and predictable.
Relegation looking likely as it stands.
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Bizarrely the stats say we had more shots than them but it didn’t bloody feel like it!
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Complete and utter fucking rubbish, from start to finish. Three absolute massive games now, with us bang out of form and no guarantees of much needed reinforcements in January.
Merry Christmas.
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This is beginning to feel a litle like the season we went down. On the pitch anyway. Where we were all cautiously optimistic with the summer signings. Veretout on the pitch, Gana, Ayew. And while all those players had talent as has been proven since, it just didn't happen at all when playing for us. We looked disjointed and the manager simply didn't have the first clue on how to fix it. Now of course things were a lot worse off it which gives me some hope that this can be corrected, even through a drastic step like change of manager. But right now, as it stands our decline is steep and incredibly alarming. I don't see three worse teams than us and morale everywhere is dropping fast.
We simply don't have enough in the final third just like in 15/16.
You can have all the good defenders and midfielders (and I think we do) but if you don't have a capable striker and a good wide player or two you'll be found out in time.
It's a minor miracle we've scored as much as we have this season but now McGinn is off form that's a major goal threat gone. We have little on the bench to mix things up either.
I always thought we signed a defender too many in the summer and not enough attackers and this is the stage of the season where it's biting us on the backside.
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Didn't enjoy that.
Don't like any of our players or management team today. Inept isn't the word.
McGinn, Wesley, Targett and Lansbury were all candidates for biggest waste of space on the pitch.
Crap.
Please don't lose to Liverpool under 5's.
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Looking more and more like a bog standard championship team which is where we will be next season if we don't effing sort this out quick.
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Wes or Kodj, now you see it doesn’t matter as they are isolated. We could put Aguero up there and it would make no difference. Deans pressing game seems to have disappeared and I fear he’s beginning to panic and not stick to his principles
Out of his depth it seems along with a number of players. We were a complete rabble out there . Fitness levels alone in comparison to Sheff Utd are embarrassing. Lack of spirit, quality and a coherent plan of what to do with ball.
Heaton 7, Guilbert 6, Engels 8, Hause 6, Targett 4, Nakamba 6, McGinn 5, Lansbury 4, AEG 4, Wes 4, Grealish 4. Luiz 4, Kodjia 4, Trez 4
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We’re going to win the cup and go down aren’t we?
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Smith seems powerless to change things.
Only going in one direction.
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takeaways..
We get killed by the 3-5-2.
The club bought a 25mil Brazilian brick shithouse who hasn't scored in 9 games, and we're yet to have a headed goal all season.
We have way too many central midfielders on at once.
We're bad.
35 million pounds is only half a percent of their combined wealth. Lets have an active january.
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Not just today but for most of this season, I'm struggling to see what we're trying to do. Today was no surprise. Outplayed again.
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I said on the match thread. I know talk of sacking Dean is seen as lynching territory but you only have to look at today’s opposition to see what a well drilled, tactically aware manager can get from a promoted team. And they’ve spent £100m less than us.
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Second game in a row in which we were abject. No positives to be taken from either of them. Smith is struggling very badly. Our good players are out of form (except Heaton), our average players aren't good enough to change games, and some of our buys look downright poor. We have almost no strength in depth, we seem to have lost all belief, and the manager appears unable to effect any meaningful change.
Yes, on paper we have some less challenging fixtures coming up, but our opponents for those games will be thinking exactly the same thing. Bar big spending in January I don't see how things are going to turn around quickly.
We're in a bit of a pickle.
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If we don't win impressively on Tues AND pick up 3 points against Southampton on Saturday, he's got to go. No signs of a revival - In fact, we're getting progressively worse.
Can't afford to drop anything over our next 4 games at least.
For some reason, I've got a gut feeling that the Liverpool youth team will do us! Hold out for a draw and beat us on Pens. And then, next weekend of course, we're bound to succumb to a Danny Ings goal or two.
In fact, fuck it. Smith out. NOW!
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Southampton only need a point at home to West Ham and we're in the bottom three.
Watch them take 3.
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I said on the match thread. I know talk of sacking Dean is seen as lynching territory but you only have to look at today’s opposition to see what a well drilled, tactically aware manager can get from a promoted team. And they’ve spent £100m less than us.
At the moment I couldn't care less if he was potted. You can't go on making the same mistakes and not changing things.
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Before we played well and ended up losing games. Now we are just playing awful and losing games. Not a good place.
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I said on the match thread. I know talk of sacking Dean is seen as lynching territory but you only have to look at today’s opposition to see what a well drilled, tactically aware manager can get from a promoted team. And they’ve spent £100m less than us.
Try saying sack Smith and you voted Conservative.
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Unless we step up over Christmas Smith will be gone in early Jan. If he can't cut it in the PL then the owners will take action with time for purchases. We were losing but playing well now the latter has gone.
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Shite.
Luckily there is some serious drinking in store at Château English ce soir.
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Shower of shite. Villa, why do you hate me so much?
After being on the losing side all week I'm chucking in the towel and will be voting Tory and supporting Liverpool from hereon in.
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Southampton only need a point at home to West Ham and we're in the bottom three.
Watch them take 3.
Way it's going they'll somehow get 4.
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(I will be doing neither)
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Not much fun being the whipping boys in the PL and hard to see how a £130m spend has done anything to make us look even vaguely competent. The Southampton game is a must win.
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Very Poor but what is more worrying is not doing the basics correctly. We give the ball away constantly when in possession and the lack of tracking runners today was utterly disgraceful. Fleck ran across the whole pitch for the second goal and nobody bothered to track him. Luiz could have gone with him but just left him. I would love to see the running stats for both teams.
The midfield balance is all wrong as teams have all the time in the world to just play it around in there just dropping into pockets of space allied to the fact we offer no support to the centre forward. Wesley is not good enough in that for a big man he is bullied off the ball too often but he needs support.
I just hope we can get a result somewhere to build some confidence.
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Being a Villa fan is not enough of a qualification to be our manager. Looks like a bad move.
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Shocking. Where to start with this mess.
Firstly wesly. Who the hell scouted him and thought he alone can get us goals?? For a big guy he is so weak and shit. A absolutely poor player who is not cut out for this level.
The team selection. I mean startibg lansbury what the hell was the logic in that???
Completely flopped and a bad gamble that didnt pay off.
Defence. What a mess. Just so poor leaving holes every where.
As usual smith leaves it too late to make any changes and games over.
Then the pen. What the actual fuck. Who thoyght grealish taking would be a good idea?? Seriously dreadful. Grealish decides ti ibsread of choose a bloody a corner and keep ut low tries to go for the .aster pen and lets us down
A massive and hugely disappointing day that is not good enough
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Utter rubbish...we are devoid of confidence and desperately need a win soon.
I'd take your hand off for a confirmed 17th place finish right now because this form suggests much, much worse is coming.
It seems the Dean Smith experiment is destined to end in tears, sooner rather than later...is Curbishly or Pardew available ?
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I think Dean Smith is out of his depth here. Probably league one / championship level is more his.
That’s 10 defeats now and I see no improvement whatsoever. The persistence in calling on Wesley will cost him his job. He’s failing to motivate the players, organise them into a cohesive unit and not utilising his squad. The football is awful to watch and he’s not ruthless enough e.g. dropping Mcginn. Grealish isn’t working out wide, push him central further forward, flood the midfield! Keep the fucking players on their toes! You need to show brass balls to make big calls.
Can’t see where the next point will come from never mind win.
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We are in deep, deep trouble. This result was entirely predictable.
The next 3 games are beyond massive. Adapt or die, Dean because we just cannot, cannot sleepwalk towards relegation
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Someone on here said Jack got us promoted last season. I’m now tending to agree.
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We have no rhythm we like what we are , a team mostly put together 6 months ago still trying to blend in.Shef United didn't spend alot but that team has been together 2 years they know their jobs they know what to do ..we still don't.
That said I think its also a case that some players are off form McGinn for one who is contributing very little currently.Grealish can't get into the game as MF behind can't get hold of the ball long enough.Wes has been poor but Kodia has 20 mins did nothing also as he was left isolated up top with long balls over hit lumped to him.
Next few games are massive as in Jan Window , lot of talk of the potential of our players , they wont reach that if we go down we need some experienced players coming in , in Jan and if they have to be loans so be it ..needs must
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I said on the match thread. I know talk of sacking Dean is seen as lynching territory but you only have to look at today’s opposition to see what a well drilled, tactically aware manager can get from a promoted team. And they’ve spent £100m less than us.
At the moment I couldn't care less if he was potted. You can't go on making the same mistakes and not changing things.
Completely agree. We look, at present, only a shade better than the last time we stank out the league.
Have got to.change the formation.
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Southampton and Norwich are both must wins now. And Norwich will be no pushover - ffs they drew at Leicester today. Even Bournemouth won at Chelsea!
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I lost count at the amount of times undroppable McGinn squandered possession.
Is Dean Smith going to ride this 4-3-3 formation till the wheels fall off because the wheels are falling off.
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Shite couple of weeks and, apart from Wolves game, we’ve gone from having a go and being a bit unlucky in the games we’ve lost, to being beaten with relative ease in the last 3 games. 1 win and 1 draw in the last eight games is relegation form. However, I think everyone should reserve judgement on whether that may happen until after Southampton, Norwich and Watford, 7-9 points out of those three and things will feel different....although feels far off at moment.
I know the leagues the most important thing, but I hope he plays a very strong team against Liverpool. With confidence so low the last thing we need is a defeat to Liverpool’s kids. On the flip side if we can manage to get a couple of goals against them it may help with the league.
And sacking smith will not help. I hate comparisons to Fulham, but swapping managers didn’t do anything for them and I can’t think of many examples where it has helped.
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Being a Villa fan is not enough of a qualification to be our manager. Looks like a bad move.
Wise words, Brian. It’s sad but true. The owners need to show us what they’re made of.
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Why a 4 year contract extension at this stage of the season? Very odd decision. Sheff Utd were clinical. We were toothless. So passive, lacking in energy and belief. Did we win 50/50 ball? Very worried for the rest of the season.
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Being a Villa fan is not enough of a qualification to be our manager. Looks like a bad move.
Looked a terrible move in May didn't it.
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No idea how much we have spent since we went down but it must be approaching 200M ? but to end up with a team not much better than the one that went down is some achievement.
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Disappointing.
Kodjia should have took that pen! If he had scored that would have boosted him (getting his 1st prem goal) and the team in the last 10-15 mins. If scored it would have boosted one of our strikers ahead of soton, norwich and watford.
Conor was anonymous!
(Winky thing!)
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We went expecting to lose and we lost, to a far better side. I know they're having a good season but we really need to start pulling some results out of somewhere. We've just become pretty shit haven't we?
And betting the house on a 22 year old Brazilian has turned out to be exactly as stupid a decision as it seemed at the time.
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Dean Smith is a great coach and manger but this is his first tilt at the top level and he's coming up short at the moment but it's only halfway. The fact that he's Villa should have no bearing on his continuation oe otherwise in the job.
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I lost count at the amount of times undroppable McGinn squandered possession.
Ditto Jack.
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Dean Smith is a great coach and manger but this is his first tilt at the top level
That's virgin on the ridiculous.
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Being a Villa fan is not enough of a qualification to be our manager. Looks like a bad move.
Looked a terrible move in May didn't it.
No it didn’t, but it looked very bad today from where I was stood! Anyway the lack of experience, a plan B, failure to change things as they happen on the pitch is causing concern
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I honestly didn't expect to get anything from this fixture, but the performance (if you can call it that) has been woefully inept - once again. Something has to be done to stop this seemingly inevitable slide back to the Championship, but I'm fearful that DS has already taken us s far as he can. I soooooo hope he manages to turn it around in the next couple of games: so lets hope & pray it happens. Continual abject displays are not an option.
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Disappointing day.
Did bringing Kodja on make any difference?
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Being a Villa fan is not enough of a qualification to be our manager. Looks like a bad move.
Looked a terrible move in May didn't it.
You mean before we'd actually played any Premier League games? But now it's Christmas.
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Dean Smith is a great coach and manger but this is his first tilt at the top level
That's virgin on the ridiculous.
There's no room at the inn for sentiment.
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Disappointing day.
Did bringing Kodja on make any difference?
No but in mitigation on his performance we hardly had the ball the last 20 mins and they could of easily have doubled the score , the pen miss knock stuffing out of us and in general we were all over the place the last 15 mins
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Being a Villa fan is not enough of a qualification to be our manager. Looks like a bad move.
Looked a terrible move in May didn't it.
Different level though isn't it. Unless the team has some miraculous turnaround, and SOON, he should be and WILL be on his bike. A lot of pro-Smith fans keep playing the 'We had to spend £130 million to compete in this league' card, but organisation, winning tactics and effort cost nothing, as proven by our opponents today.
Don't get me wrong. Smith is obviously a smashing bloke, and we'll be forever in his debt for getting us back up, but so far he's proved that he is far from a Premier League quality manager and the club need to pull the trigger imo, or we'll be back to square one.
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10 defeats all season is pretty poor by anyone's standard's, especially compared to the team who just beat us.
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Horror show, particularly in the second half. We offered little going forward in the first half, but I thought we at least looked reasonably solid. Fell apart in the second half though and they could have easily had more than two. We never really looked threatening and couldn’t even take the opportunity of the penalty we were given.
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Being a Villa fan is not enough of a qualification to be our manager. Looks like a bad move.
Looked a terrible move in May didn't it.
You mean before we'd actually played any Premier League games? But now it's Christmas.
As we were promoted I don't see how there's even a debate about the appointment, if we'd appointed someone else we'd probably still be in the Championship with no Jack and we could be top or we could be midtable and shite.
The debate is whether he's good enough to keep us up and take us forward.
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I said on the match thread. I know talk of sacking Dean is seen as lynching territory but you only have to look at today’s opposition to see what a well drilled, tactically aware manager can get from a promoted team. And they’ve spent £100m less than us.
Try saying sack Smith and you voted Conservative.
It was the Brexit party actually.
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It looked like a gamble when we appointed Smith in May. It looks increasingly like a gamble we should have realized the magnitude of.
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It looked like a gamble when we appointed Smith in May. It looks increasingly like a gamble we should have realized the magnitude of.
So you'd be happier if we hadn't appointed him and were still in the Championship?
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I am not suggesting he should be getting binned, but he absolutely should be feeling the pressure about now.
To have given him a new deal last week is absolutely nuts. It reminds me of when Lerner reacted to three wins in a row by giving Lambert a new contract (except this time without the three wins in a row, even).
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Player ratings:
Heaton - 5
Guilbert - 4
Engels - 4
Hause - 6
Targett - 4
McGinn - 3
Nakamba - 4
Grealish - 4
Lansbury - 2 (Luiz - 3)
El Ghazi - 4
Wesley - 2
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Because he continues to make the same mistakes and has no idea how to manage a game he is failing.
Worryingly the players played with a lack of belief and of course they are the first to sense when something is wrong.
The body language today was telling.
If we are bottom 3 after Christmas he is toast.
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Oh what a horrible game, a shambles from start to finish. But for a bit of luck the pen would have given hope. But we seem to rely on Jack and that, regardless of results, just isn't sustainable.
It can only get better?
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Disappointing day.
Did bringing Kodja on make any difference?
No but in mitigation on his performance we hardly had the ball the last 20 mins and they could of easily have doubled the score , the pen miss knock stuffing out of us and in general we were all over the place the last 15 mins
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Absolutely huge 4 games for Smith now.
I just can’t see the owners hanging around if we come out of this spell of games with further poor performances.
The big man upfront isn’t working so it’s got to be a formation change to give him support or leave him out altogether.
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Being a Premier League manager should bring pressure. Being a first time Premier League manager even more so. Shame nobody's mentioned that to Chris Wilder.
Smith's stubbornness will probably cost him his job, ultimately. No team ever saved themselves from trouble by trying not to lose.
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PWS you know very well I am not saying that. If we are in Div 3 I shall still be dragging my weary bones to Villa games. What I am pleading for is that we see what we see and judge accordingly. To be honest in our appraisals of Villa games and Villa players. No more. No less.
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I am not suggesting he should be getting binned, but he absolutely should be feeling the pressure about now.
That's where I am. With the run of games we have coming up for me it's at the stage where he shows he can deal with it and look like he can continue taking us forward or it will be time to seriously start thinking about making a change.
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We'll be fine. I think. I hope.
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Dean Smith is a great coach and manger but this is his first tilt at the top level
That's virgin on the ridiculous.
Smith, O’Kelly and Terry don’t look like wise men to me.
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PWS you know very well I am not saying that. If we are in Div 3 I shall still be dragging my weary bones to Villa games. What I am pleading for is that we see what we see and judge accordingly. To be honest in our appraisals of Villa games and Villa players. No more. No less.
I never mentioned support or going to games so that has nothing to do with it, you said it looks like a bad move appointing him, i'm disagreeing as it's obvious it wasn't as we were promoted.
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Around this time last year I posted something along the lines of 'we ought to cash in on Grealish and work out a proper system of play that doesn't require him'. I was obviously talking bollocks then, but I'm starting to think the same thing again.
It's mad, and counter-productive, to be so reliant on one player.
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I still trust DS, he's having his worst run. If we are winless after the Christmas period then he has to be judged just like anyone else. My real concern is if the season continues in its current form, that's the last we'll see of Jack in Claret and blue.
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I think SHQ said in the match-thread but it looked like we came for a 0-0. I imagine Smith has worked on Engels and Hause all week in training and our general shape which, in fairness for 50 minutes, was pretty solid. Problem is that t'Blades were always going to have a spell of pressure and we collapsed at the second whiff of it (McGoldrick should have scored a minute or two before).
We finally shake into life but of course we're exposed on the counter and we just have too many players who are either too lazy/naive/stupid to track fairly standard attacking movement and we pay the price accordingly.
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I still trust DS, he's having his worst run. If we are winless after the Christmas period then he has to be judged just like anyone else. My real concern is if the season continues in its current form, that's the last we'll see of Jack in Claret and blue.
If we don't take a good haul from Saints and Norwich at home and Watford away then we're in deep deep shit.
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I’m a big Smith fan but results are what all managers live and die by and he needs results.
The current table says it all and being in the bottom three is there for us all to see.
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I’m a big Smith fan but results are what all managers live and die by and he needs results.
The current table says it all and being in the bottom three is there for us all to see.
Same here, keep losing games and you’re gone - doesn’t matter who you are.
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Around this time last year I posted something along the lines of 'we ought to cash in on Grealish and work out a proper system of play that doesn't require him'. I was obviously talking bollocks then, but I'm starting to think the same thing again.
It's mad, and counter-productive, to be so reliant on one player.
I'd rather keep him and buy players that are closer to his standard. He's also being played out of position by a manager who increasingly looks like he's lost the plot.
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The sad thing is I think they were there for the taking. If we approached that game like we did Norwich we would have turned them over. I don’t think it’s only the players who have lost some confidence, I think Dean has as well
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Being a Villa fan is not enough of a qualification to be our manager. Looks like a bad move.
Looked a terrible move in May didn't it.
You mean before we'd actually played any Premier League games? But now it's Christmas.
As we were promoted I don't see how there's even a debate about the appointment, if we'd appointed someone else we'd probably still be in the Championship with no Jack and we could be top or we could be midtable and shite.
The debate is whether he's good enough to keep us up and take us forward.
That surely must have been part of the discussion when he was first appointed though and if not absolutely must have been before they gave him a new contract.
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The only time selling a player like Jack is the right decision is if it saves the club, as looked a likely scenario last summer.
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Around this time last year I posted something along the lines of 'we ought to cash in on Grealish and work out a proper system of play that doesn't require him'. I was obviously talking bollocks then, but I'm starting to think the same thing again.
It's mad, and counter-productive, to be so reliant on one player.
I'd rather keep him and buy players that are closer to his standard. He's also being played out of position by a manager who increasingly looks like he's lost the plot.
Yes, if the owners are as minted as we hear then we don't need to sell him. What we need are more Grealishes.
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I don't think it's coincidence that we look crap now McGinn looks crap. We badly miss his energy and persistence. While I think we really need a new striker in January, we could probably also do with another dynamic box to box midfielder to give us some fresh impetus too.
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Around this time last year I posted something along the lines of 'we ought to cash in on Grealish and work out a proper system of play that doesn't require him'. I was obviously talking bollocks then, but I'm starting to think the same thing again.
It's mad, and counter-productive, to be so reliant on one player.
I'd rather keep him and buy players that are closer to his standard. He's also being played out of position by a manager who increasingly looks like he's lost the plot.
Yes, if the owners are as minted as we hear then we don't need to sell him. What we need are more Grealishes.
Well there is that, yes.
I had considered that it was possible that I was talking bollocks again!
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“We didn’t manage the ball well enough, and we should do with the players that we have. It was a game of few chances and it was littered with fouls. They deserved to win.”
Suspect they had another bollocking
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I'm still 100% behind Smith. I think he's an intelligent bloke and will turn it round. But I think he's been a streaky manager at times and it looks like we're on one of our bad streaks. I'm hopeful we'll put a run together soon.
Signing Wesley over Maupay was fucking stupid, but I suspect that was not Smiths call.
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To paraphrase Sir Graham " I'm not being wise after the event " as I thought this during the summer, but our recruitment did worry me, to buy so many players who haven't played in this league, let alone this country was very risky. A couple of shrewd January loanees could easily settle the ship. But apart from Jack, we seem to have no players playing in form or with confidence.
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The window might just come at the right time for us.
We desperately need a striker.
Desperately.
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Awful, got exactly what we deserved. First time this season i've been really fucked off with the result and performance. Massive few games coming up now, if we don't step it up then we are in trouble.
Same as this. Wasn't expecting us to walk it but expected a performance.
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Once again we concede just after half time. What the fuck are they doing, drinking tequila at the interval?
We need more leaders and fighters in the team. Players that lift us and that the opposition hate playing against. We were a sullen and defeated team in the last 20 minutes against Leicester and it seems like a further lack of bite today.
I wonder if he will play a weakened team against Liverpool ( easy for me to ask as I can’t make it) to give the players some rest. My nightmare is a proper team losing to their kids.
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I'm normally ultra patient. Along with Chris Smith I was one of the few who didn't call or DOL's head but even I'm starting to doubt.
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The new contract to me is immaterial. We don’t know what clauses or conditions are in there. He absolutely deserved a better deal than the one he was on. He earned every penny of that increase in his compensation. But as generous as the club were in doing that Dean Smith will be under no illusions that it’s a piece of paper. That the moment the club feel he no longer is the manager to protect our PL position he’ll be gone. He’ll get paid out under the terms agreed in the deal and we will get someone else in. The next 10 games and transfer window will either see him cement his place as Villa Manager or not.
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PWS I am not saying it was a bad move appointing Smith. What I am saying is that increasingly it COULD look like a poor move. If you can take exception to that you can take exception to anything. I am not putting forward my staunch 75 years on the Holte as proof of the veracity of my opinions only as justification that I offer views in good faith.
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Even if we're relegated it won't have been a bad move appointing him. And no one has said you can't have an opinion. You and anyone can have one if whether they've been going one year or 75, same as anyone can disagree with it.
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You can take defeats if you can take positives from them. But that's now very inept performances against Wolves, Chelsea. Leicester and Sheffield.
That's Chelsea who lost to West Ham and Bournemouth in their other two recent home games, and Leicester who couldn't beat Norwich at home today, and Sheffield who lost their last home game to Bruceball.
Too many players go missing like AEG and Lansbury, or are badly out of form (McGinn). It also looks like we overpaid for some very average/inconsistent players in the summer. Either that or Smith doesn't know how to get the best out of them consistently. For those constantly slagging Wesley he's on a hiding to nothing. Kodija did less when he came on. Smith is looking increasingly out of his depth at this level. The next four games we need a minimum 8 or 9 points or we will be royally shafted.
Altogether now, "it's beginning to look a lot like Fulham"
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Rest of the month is crucial. I think we need a couple of new faces in Jan that offer something different.
At least 6 points from the next 4 games.
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Even if we're relegated it won't have been a bad move appointing him. And no one has said you can't have an opinion. You and anyone can have one if whether they've been going one year or 75, same as anyone can disagree with it.
If we did get relegated and he got binned and we're right back to square one, with a lot of players on big money and probably no Jack, it would be hard to put your hand on your heart and say it was a good appointment.
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I wouldn't find it hard to say that, maybe others would.
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That was truly abject. Quite a few fans left after the penalty miss and I don't blame them.
Smith isn't seemingly learning or adapting. We've been pitiful away from home so many times now it's no longer a surprise.
Both teams were poor in the first half, but clearly they said and did something at half time. Also the countless diagonal balls they successfully played (mainly Norwood) to Baldock and Stevens on the wings was just embarrassing. There was no tactical change to stop them either.
I hope I am wrong, but I currently don't have confidence in the players or Smith's ability to turn things around.
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I wouldn't find it hard to say that, maybe others would.
Fair enough. I think I would.
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I wouldn't find it hard to say that, maybe others would.
Fair enough. I think I would.
Being relegated would be shit, but imo, we'd be going down in a lot better shape than we'd be in if we hadn't gone up. We know Jack would have gone in the summer if we hadn't gone up, he's said that, for starters we'd get a lot more for him this summer than we would the one just gone. Parachute payments helping to cover any wage increases and so on.
I'll also say that i'm not sure i'd keep DS if we went down, a lot of that would, again for me, depend on the manner of how we went down.
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OK now I'm worried. We're shit.
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My thoughts are the owners and quotes from purslow keep saying building around dean. They are more astute owners and ceo than
we’ve had in a good while so we must trust . Similar issues to previous regime but unless you’re really lucky you need cash to pay and sign decent players and manger.
I’m not interested how much we spent last last summer we had to with 15 players leaving, can’t be a prem team in history that has rebuilt that quickly before. Some have proven to be good for their prices and a couple dire, but then I’m interested in how this situation will be managed by our well run club going forward .
I love villa but watch as a football fan with interest on how we manger and run the club because that will transfer onto the pitch at some point.
I’m guessing 95% of fans on here were saying trust in dean after the play off win and stay with the players and don’t boo etc if we have bad runs, I’ve not seen the latter but there is no point in getting on Deano ‘s back, they’ve just asked him to sign an extension to his contract.... they won’t pay more money to sack him than they would of a month ago !
I’ll always love us and support from wherever I am at home or at VP because I love villa. I don’t know wether it’s best to watch us win exciting games in championship, win 10,11 or 12 on the bounce , or be in the cash loaded premiership..... which has changed in so many ways whilst we were away.
We need 9 points though from next 3 games or relegation would be a reality but then again we all made predictions this time last year but no-one knew what was about to happen between jan-May !!
Come on you villains , I don’t think we’ll buy anyone substantial in January , let’s just finish 17th and spend in summer again
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You just wonder who will we keep a clean sheet against, especially away from home. It's frustrating that we didn't go at Sheff the way we did at Old Trafford a fortnight ago. The impact confidence or a lack thereof has, I suppose.
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Absolutely fucking horrible 7 days. Leicester, Election and today. I am going to go and hide in a dark hole till next Saturday.😥😡
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Absolutely fucking horrible 7 days. Leicester, Election and today. I am going to go and hide in a dark hole till next Saturday.😥😡
Not bothering with the Liverpool game?
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Shit week, shit football, shit results all round. Thoroughly pissed off with leaking goals left right and center and having no center forward threat.
BAH fucking humbug.
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The window might just come at the right time for us.
We desperately need a striker.
Desperately.
You say that, and it may be true, but the first thing we have to do is stop leaking goals.
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I still trust DS, he's having his worst run. If we are winless after the Christmas period then he has to be judged just like anyone else. My real concern is if the season continues in its current form, that's the last we'll see of Jack in Claret and blue.
I generally agree with this and I think the string of comments calling for smiths head or saying it’s coming are just not judging the situation at our club with what’s happened in our own recent history or at other clubs. The car crash from 2010 up until last season wasn’t helped in any way by chopping and changing managers. And apart from the odd exception, teams near the bottom who stick with their managers have done better. Burnley went down and stuck with Dyche and have relatively thrived in the context of their size and history. Leicester stuck with Pearson when they looked certs for relegation, survived and thrived only changing managers for disciplinary reasons.
On the other hand, Fulham 3 managers in one season car crash, the Watford experiment of not being reliant on a manager and managers being expendable is failing, Huddersfield changing managers part way through the season, failed. There are always exceptions, Everton sacking Keoman and bringing in Allardyce, but saving them short term has done nothing for them long term.
Thought the owners are trying to build something at villa which will take stability. True if we go down it’ll be a nightmare, but we could stay up and lose grealish.
Some of the summer business has been really good imo, Engels, Heaton, Guilbert in particular. Wesley is obviously a massive issue, but does anyone really believe smith would of said to Suso and owners, that we only needed one forward, I can’t imagine any manager doing that. The cheque book was obviously closed on him. I believe that must of been out of his hands.
I believe we can beat Southampton and Norwich and things will feel different. But it does need a shake up. Unless he plays and scores against Liverpool midweek I would bench Wes for Southampton and despite reservations give Kodjia a go. Jack also has to be more central, I would play el ghaz in the role nearer the forward. Luiz is a player for summer for me, bags of ability but doesn’t look up for the scrap. I know he disappears against the better teams, but I would have Connor in for most games and try and have some consistency with the midfield. Whatever’s bothering McGinn, needs to be sorted out ASAP.
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My take on the game, having just got back, is:
• We could have drawn, if Grealish had scored the penalty and buried the almost-unmissable header in the second half during one of our few periods of good build-up play.
• Playing Grealish on the left wing is a waste of talent.
• Not being able to work out that SheffU’s ‘out-ball’ was the sweeping pass to the right wingback – every fuckin’ time – is just ignorant on Smith’s part.
• Not trying to nullify Norwood – who pulled the strings for them in midfield – seems idiotic.
• Bringing on three subs but not changing the game-plan (they were just 3 straight replacements) seems wasteful and non-productive.
• Playing 4-3-3 isn’t working: our fullbacks are better wingbacks and I’d applaud a go at 3-5-2, with a narrower midfield and the wingbacks exploiting the wide space.
I actually thought Hause, Lansbury and McGinn played well in the first half. The problem in our overall play is the same as I see each time I go: poor fitness / intensity, poor ball retention and a lack of support for the hardworking but ineffective Wesley when we do get the ball up there.
If we want to survive I really think Smith has to change his one-plan strategy.
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Conor would have been up for the scrap today. Bringing in Lansbury to play a deep role was another passenger we had to carry and right now our team has far too many. Again, I want to see Taylor away from home and Targett at Villa Park. Though not completely all his fault, our left side defence today was our biggest weakness with both goals coming from that side.
Overall, we look like a random group of players rather than a team. There doesn't appear to be any plan. That needs to change and quick.
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Same mistakes week in week out. There's no plan B. Our ball retention is shocking. Surprised the owners handed Smith a 4 year contract. Still unproven at this level. Is that six defeats in 8 games now?
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Though obviously I've wanted the Villa to win every match they've ever played, I don't think I've wanted a manager to personally succeed this much since Brian Little. However, we can't be sentimental. Deano is a great guy, and a very good manager, but this step up is obviously proving steep for him. I think he'll make it to this level, but I don't know how soon - which, for us, is obviously an issue.
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• Not being able to work out that SheffU’s ‘out-ball’ was the sweeping pass to the right wingback – every fuckin’ time – is just ignorant on Smith’s part.
This is a great example of what worries me the most.
He never reacts tactically to the opposition, and we never go out set up to play the opposition, we go out to play the way we play. That was exactly MON's limitation, too.
Compare that with Leicester last week who had clearly done their homework on us and played accordingly.
How many times this season have we found ourselves crying out for a change at half time, but not making it?
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Dean Smith's lack of tactical flexibility is astounding at this level. Listening to Brendan Rodger's last week talking about how Leicester tweaked their system to nullify what they saw as our strengths was instructive. There is nothing in Dean Smith that suggests that he thinks on his feet or responds creatively to what he is seeing in front of him.
Like for like replacements and the same regimented set up each week is looking more and more archaic as the weeks go by.
Surely he will have to change his approach?
However whatever he does decide to do we as fans have got to treat the Southampton game as if it was a one off cup game and support the boys wholeheartedly.
The atmosphere has dropped off markedly since the heady days of August and we need to help the boys as much as we can.
It's a big week ahead of us.
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I agree with all of this. Dean is a good manager as far as training his team to play well on their own terms, but has not yet developed the capacity to do so in the face of specific threats. Like I say, by no means too late for him - people used to say the same about Rodgers before he improved on it - but for us it does make the short term a bit difficult.
I can't remember who said it (it might genuinely have been Jean Paul Sartre, which for me would be insanely on-brand), but I often think these days off that phrase 'everything in football is complicated by the presence of the opposition'. It's proving very true of ourselves at the minute.
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Even a shite Newcastle team turned over this lot 2-0 on their own patch. Norwich drew at bang in form Leicester plus Bournemouth beat Chelsea at the Bridge today. This doesn't augur well at all. Will the owners run out of patience soon??
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Sartre, did he ever ponder upon Erdington for even one damn moment?
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Conor would have been up for the scrap today. Bringing in Lansbury to play a deep role was another passenger we had to carry and right now our team has far too many. Again, I want to see Taylor away from home and Targett at Villa Park. Though not completely all his fault, our left side defence today was our biggest weakness with both goals coming from that side.
Overall, we look like a random group of players rather than a team. There doesn't appear to be any plan. That needs to change and quick.
Conor isnt mobile enough against the likes of Sheffield. He was awful against Chelsea
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Sartre, did he ever ponder upon Erdington for even one damn moment?
You can never count on these existential types. Except for Camus, who still wouldn't get in the team ahead of Heaton.
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Sartre, did he ever ponder upon Erdington for even one damn moment?
You can never count on these existential types. Except for Camus, who still wouldn't get in the team ahead of Heaton.
Sartre also said that hell is other people. I think that he had Robbie Savage in mind when he said that.
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What does he say at half time? We concede with five minutes of the restart every fucking week.
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Conor would have been up for the scrap today. Bringing in Lansbury to play a deep role was another passenger we had to carry and right now our team has far too many. Again, I want to see Taylor away from home and Targett at Villa Park. Though not completely all his fault, our left side defence today was our biggest weakness with both goals coming from that side.
Overall, we look like a random group of players rather than a team. There doesn't appear to be any plan. That needs to change and quick.
Conor isnt mobile enough against the likes of Sheffield. He was awful against Chelsea
He was passed around against Chelsea, such was their quality but when it comes to a nitty-gritty midfield fight, he would have been perfect today. Norwood certainly wouldn't have been given the keys to the park. He also might have helped out bloody Targett on the left, at least pointing him in the right direction.
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The poster suggested 3-5-2 I think has a good point. I massive supporter off Smith, but he could do with a plan B. We seem to have enough decent centre backs and perfect full backs for this system to at least give it a go in some games. Midfield trio of McGinn, grealish and Nakamba with el ghazi playing off Wes until we can purchase another forward
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The next few games are critical, we need to show some fight.
The fans need to play our part and generate an atmosphere at Villa Park like the Everton game.
We were overloaded time & again on our LHS. Everyone knows how Sheffield play & Smith did nothing to counter it. There were quite a few candidates for worst performer but Marvellous was dreadful!
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The next few games are critical, we need to show some fight.
The fans need to play our part and generate an atmosphere at Villa Park like the Everton game.
We were overloaded time & again on our LHS. Everyone knows how Sheffield play & Smith did nothing to counter it. There were quite a few candidates for worst performer but Marvellous was dreadful!
The key word is 'fight' which we simply don't have. Rolled over by a bang average team today.
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The next few games are critical, we need to show some fight.
The fans need to play our part and generate an atmosphere at Villa Park like the Everton game.
We were overloaded time & again on our LHS. Everyone knows how Sheffield play & Smith did nothing to counter it. There were quite a few candidates for worst performer but Marvellous was dreadful!
The key word is 'fight' which we simply don't have. Rolled over by a bang average team today.
Who are fifth in the league.
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The last three performances have been rubbish frankly. Dean work out other ways of playing.
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I said on the match thread. I know talk of sacking Dean is seen as lynching territory but you only have to look at today’s opposition to see what a well drilled, tactically aware manager can get from a promoted team. And they’ve spent £100m less than us.
Try saying sack Smith and you voted Conservative.
It was the Brexit party actually.
Anything can happen in the Premiership, its all about results, if you don't perform then your history, I hope Smith can turn it around and we go on a winning run, all this is just part of the season, somehow I think the worm has turned but I hope to be proved wrong, either way points and games are precious now, and the board should have a plan and even targets in sight to take over. Voting Conservative....I didn't think anybody did I thought it was one of those South American style Junta moves, grabbing power by the rich and powerful, could be wrong on that one also, but as anybody ever found that the atmosphere after an election is so devoid of feeling or interest, back to football, sort it out Smithy.
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The next few games are critical, we need to show some fight.
The fans need to play our part and generate an atmosphere at Villa Park like the Everton game.
We were overloaded time & again on our LHS. Everyone knows how Sheffield play & Smith did nothing to counter it. There were quite a few candidates for worst performer but Marvellous was dreadful!
The key word is 'fight' which we simply don't have. Rolled over by a bang average team today.
But what Sheffield United have is a work ethic, discipline, application and a togetherness which raises them above their individual merits. We could learn a hell of a lot from them.
We have individual talent but too often, recently at least, we have looked like a bunch of strangers.
Chris Wilder has just said that Dean Smith and his back room staff clapped the Sheffield United players back into their dressing room which is nice. However I'd rather that Dean analysed what it is that Sheffield United do that makes them so effective.
Too many of our players need a rocket up their arses which I'm sure Chris Wilder would not hesitate to deliver.
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So instead of getting better as the season progresses we’re actually getting worse.
Not surprised by the result at all but our performances and those of key players is very worrisome. Big 3 weeks for Dean or it’ll be a big decision for the owners.
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Watched a couple of games today,
Sorry, in my view Team/squad is not good enough to stay up.
Our tactics may be dictated by the players we have, but we seem to have very little change of tactics when the game changes.
Dean has a new contract, so unless the owners are looking to reward him with a package they have faith in him.
some serious intent needed in Jan or we will be renewing our local derby with Small Heath next year.
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A piece on radio 5 today, as I was travelling back, was about teams losing a few on the trot. Both Howe and Dyche said that in this league you have to expect and accept that, as long as you keep the confidence and belief high. They spoke as mid-table managers, with no expectation of greatness.
The challenge for Smith is to accept this and build the belief and confidence in the squad, which - at the moment - looks low.
He also needs to look at himself and deicde whether he and his management team are playing to their strengths and capabilities. I don't - for example - see the influence of Terry in our game.
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The next few games are critical, we need to show some fight.
The fans need to play our part and generate an atmosphere at Villa Park like the Everton game.
We were overloaded time & again on our LHS. Everyone knows how Sheffield play & Smith did nothing to counter it. There were quite a few candidates for worst performer but Marvellous was dreadful!
The key word is 'fight' which we simply don't have. Rolled over by a bang average team today.
Who are fifth in the league.
They are now, having trousered three points without much worry.
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The next few games are critical, we need to show some fight.
The fans need to play our part and generate an atmosphere at Villa Park like the Everton game.
We were overloaded time & again on our LHS. Everyone knows how Sheffield play & Smith did nothing to counter it. There were quite a few candidates for worst performer but Marvellous was dreadful!
The key word is 'fight' which we simply don't have. Rolled over by a bang average team today.
Who are fifth in the league.
They are now, having trousered three points without much worry.
And your point is?
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We were awful in the first half today and you just knew what the second half would bring, the same as pretty much every second half away from home. No changes, same team, same tactics concede an early goal and lose.
It looks like DS has no idea what to do at half time, maybe they have a steak dinner and a couple of pints.
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Dean Smith has started to panic, he went into this game playing for a draw like so many under pressure managers. The defence held up well with a good performance from the overlooked Hause but after half time the inevitable happened and I guess we all knew the game was over.
Wesley has been criticised all season myself included but I wonder what centre forward could succeed when they are so isolated, El Ghazi is not up to the premiership as I'm afraid are many of his team mates, we have a decent goalkeeper, right back, central defenders not too bad and Jack, that's less than half a team. My only hope for survival is that management can see this and will go into the market in January, our problems are far deeper than just replacing the centre forward.
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The next few games are critical, we need to show some fight.
The fans need to play our part and generate an atmosphere at Villa Park like the Everton game.
We were overloaded time & again on our LHS. Everyone knows how Sheffield play & Smith did nothing to counter it. There were quite a few candidates for worst performer but Marvellous was dreadful!
The key word is 'fight' which we simply don't have. Rolled over by a bang average team today.
Who are fifth in the league.
They are now, having trousered three points without much worry.
And your point is?
Maybe at this time better than the other 15 teams below them.
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The next few games are critical, we need to show some fight.
The fans need to play our part and generate an atmosphere at Villa Park like the Everton game.
We were overloaded time & again on our LHS. Everyone knows how Sheffield play & Smith did nothing to counter it. There were quite a few candidates for worst performer but Marvellous was dreadful!
The key word is 'fight' which we simply don't have. Rolled over by a bang average team today.
Who are fifth in the league.
They are now, having trousered three points without much worry.
And your point is?
My point is them being fifth (now) has nothing to do with how bad we were. It just comes off like an excuse. If we play that badly again, teams stand a chance of beating us wherever they might be in the table. I recall you saying before the Leicester game that you could see no reason why we couldn't beat them and they were 2nd at the time (I think I'm right in saying).
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We coud have beaten them, we could have beaten Leicester. But they're fifth in the table so they're a bit more than average.
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For the last half a dozen games or so, as well as rooting Jack out on the left, McGinn seems to be have been told to stick to the right.
What coach plays his best 2 players out of position consistently. They should be the heartbeat of that midfield, not gathering dust out wide?!
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We coud have beaten them, we could have beaten Leicester. But they're fifth in the table so they're a bit more than average.
I didn't say they are average. They're where they are because they have a solid squad, an effective manager and a system that works well for them. Not easy to go there and win. But it shouldn't be beyond us to go up there and play well. They don't have any intrinsic superiority over us. It's not the result, it's the performance, which showed no improvement at all from the week before and much of the same inertia from the manager. Sooner or later we are going to have to start winning tougher fixtures against teams further up the table because I think it's dangerous to assume we'll pick up maximum points from all our more 'winnable' games.
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We coud have beaten them, we could have beaten Leicester. But they're fifth in the table so they're a bit more than average.
I think a lot of concern is about how we are playing. That looked a very lackluster performance with no pattern, system or strategy evident.
It’s particularly evident when you look at how Leicester and United went about their work in comparison.
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We coud have beaten them, we could have beaten Leicester. But they're fifth in the table so they're a bit more than average.
I didn't say they are average.
The person Dave was replying to did.
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We coud have beaten them, we could have beaten Leicester. But they're fifth in the table so they're a bit more than average.
I didn't say they are average.
The person Dave was replying to did.
Apologies. I thought he was replying to me.
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This might not be popular, but I seriously wouldn’t play a single player in the Liverpool game who we need to be fit and as sharp as possible for the next 3 league games. Lose a couple of them and I struggle to see us digging ourselves out of the bottom 3.
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This might not be popular, but I seriously wouldn’t play a single player in the Liverpool game who we need to be fit and as sharp as possible for the next 3 league games. Lose a couple of them and I struggle to see us digging ourselves out of the bottom 3.
So play the same side as today then?
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/SUeUCn53naadO/giphy.gif)
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This might not be popular, but I seriously wouldn’t play a single player in the Liverpool game who we need to be fit and as sharp as possible for the next 3 league games. Lose a couple of them and I struggle to see us digging ourselves out of the bottom 3.
With our league situation and Liverpool's situation with the Club World Cup maybe we could just agree to both teams playing the kids/reserves ;)
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Absolutely fucking horrible 7 days. Leicester, Election and today. I am going to go and hide in a dark hole till Tuesday.😥😡
Not bothering with the Liverpool game?
Not sure what you are on about😉
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Just back.
Positives, I like Sheffield, good pubs, decent folk, seems a pretty vibrant place. Trains ran on time with minimal overcrowding.
Negatives - everything else.
Thought Hause did ok, pretty much an off day for everyone else. Sheffield were just as shit as us for large parts of the game but sit 5th because they work harder, press in packs and push their full backs right up to the most attacking areas of the field. Much to learn
Don’t think there is anymore to be said, a real off day
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How does a really inexperienced manager, at this level anyway, who is only used to success, stop the rot? We are getting worse. Some very poor performances just recently. Dean is an intelligent guy who needs a rethink. That said, Lansbury really isn’t the answer Deano!
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This might not be popular, but I seriously wouldn’t play a single player in the Liverpool game who we need to be fit and as sharp as possible for the next 3 league games. Lose a couple of them and I struggle to see us digging ourselves out of the bottom 3.
If by that you mean play reserves than it’s a no from me. If Dean does that he’s dead to me.
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He can argue he’s not been provided with a squad to enable him to compete.
The bench today was abject
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This might not be popular, but I seriously wouldn’t play a single player in the Liverpool game who we need to be fit and as sharp as possible for the next 3 league games. Lose a couple of them and I struggle to see us digging ourselves out of the bottom 3.
If by that you mean play reserves than it’s a no from me. If Dean does that he’s dead to me.
Agree with you. I think it’s a bit of an urban myth about cup runs affecting league form, with some notable exceptions, blues ha!! I get the worries about injuries, but a weakened side just about beat wolves kids and would be capable of losing to Liverpool’s youngsters, which would knock the confidence even further. I’ll be really disappointed if he makes lots of changes for this one
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We really were piss poor today. We're missing amongst other things an in-form McGinn and a decent centre forward. I thought Hause did ok and Grealish tried his best to get us going (totally wasted out wide by the way) but it all looked too predictable at times and it wasn't good enough.
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It is too easy to over-analyse IMO. We are simply shit right now. We are not working hard enough in any position and it's showing. Smith needs to get the fucking finger out and tell each individual to do the same - including the 'undroppables' tbh.
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We really were piss poor today. We're missing amongst other things an in-form McGinn and a decent centre forward. I thought Hause did ok and Grealish tried his best to get us going (totally wasted out wide by the way) but it all looked too predictable at times and it wasn't good enough.
Pretty much, I always like to look for the positives and the only one I could really draw today was that there wasn’t an opposition player I’d like to buy but they were a team and we can emulate that They worked for each other far more than we did.
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PWS I am not saying it was a bad move appointing Smith. What I am saying is that increasingly it COULD look like a poor move. If you can take exception to that you can take exception to anything. I am not putting forward my staunch 75 years on the Holte as proof of the veracity of my opinions only as justification that I offer views in good faith.
Just off topic Brian but are the club aware of your long service. I saw the other week a Derby fan was presented onto the pitch for his long support of the club. He is 102 though so suspect you're still some way off that!
Anyway I would disagree that even at this stage Dean Smith being appointed simply can't be seen as a poor move. His brief was to stop the rot and eventually get us up, did it in six months.
As poor as we've been in last 10 days we still aren't in the bottom 3 or even close to becoming trapped into it. If we dropped into it we could just move out of it the next week by winning a game like Everton did.
Anyway what I suspect may come up in the new year is we're in similar position to Southampton were all those years ago. Nigel Adkins had achieved two promotions and Southampton weren't even in bottom 3 when he was sacked. It was a massive gamble but Southampton survived and then thrived for next 2-3 seasons.
Of course they also signed very well so changing the manager is only ever a part of the process.
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PWS I am not saying it was a bad move appointing Smith. What I am saying is that increasingly it COULD look like a poor move. If you can take exception to that you can take exception to anything. I am not putting forward my staunch 75 years on the Holte as proof of the veracity of my opinions only as justification that I offer views in good faith.
Just off topic Brian but are the club aware of your long service. I saw the other week a Derby fan was presented onto the pitch for his long support of the club. He is 102 though so suspect you're still some way off that!
Anyway I would disagree that even at this stage Dean Smith being appointed simply can't be seen as a poor move. His brief was to stop the rot and eventually get us up, did it in six months.
As poor as we've been in last 10 days we still aren't in the bottom 3 or even close to becoming trapped into it. If we dropped into it we could just move out of it the next week by winning a game like Everton did.
Anyway what I suspect may come up in the new year is we're in similar position to Southampton were all those years ago. Nigel Adkins had achieved two promotions and Southampton weren't even in bottom 3 when he was sacked. It was a massive gamble but Southampton survived and then thrived for next 2-3 seasons.
Of course they also signed very well so changing the manager is only ever a part of the process.
I was delighted that Pochettino fucked off from Southampton as soon as a 'big' club came in for him, due to the way he was appointed in the first place. Shitty behaviour.
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This might not be popular, but I seriously wouldn’t play a single player in the Liverpool game who we need to be fit and as sharp as possible for the next 3 league games. Lose a couple of them and I struggle to see us digging ourselves out of the bottom 3.
If by that you mean play reserves than it’s a no from me. If Dean does that he’s dead to me.
Unfortunately, Tuesday had dropped down the list of priorities due to performances over the last couple of weeks. The main priority should now be making sure key players are fit and ready for the three league games coming up over the next couple of weeks. They have now become the priority. That said, a team of Nyland, Elmo, Chester, Konsa, Taylor, Luiz, Hourihane, Lansbury, Trezeguet, El Ghazi and Kodjia should still be strong enough to get past the kind of team Liverpool are likely to put out.
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Think Jota will start on Tuesday. He's supposed to have been in training for weeks but can't even make the bench now.
Would play a strong team but we certainly can't risk Jack given he's on 4 yellows. We need him for Southampton.
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This was the side for the last round
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIJaIYDWsAA4L7R?format=jpg&name=large)
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1st half was pretty awful from both sides.
2nd we conceded 2 shit goals and didn't look like scoring our own.
Wes did better than he has but was all alone.
Nobody gets much credit from today.
The next four matches are huge.
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They look like they need a holiday, and unfortunately for them they ain't getting one for a long time.
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I watched most of the replays and for me Peter With is correct our players do not run as hard tackle as hard and want the ball as much. The times we give the ball away when under no pressure is alarming. McGinn looks like a different player to the one at the start of the season if he is being played out of position then fix it Dean we need him above all to get back on track.
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The only positive for me is that D.S. has realised we will have to grind some results out. Didn't work today, but if we go gung-ho all season, we are fucked.
It is clear now that we will be in the relegation mix until the death. So it goes.
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If he doesn’t make us harder to play against, he will be gone soon. We have become a soft touch.
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If we lose the next three I can't see anything other than a new manager.
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I'm growing tired of this.
Like McGinn, I'm giving it a miss on Tuesday night. Hopefully the rest will do us both good.
I may not even watch it on telly.
Falling out of love with Dean Smith I think
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The next four games will tell the story, pick up eight points we will be okay pick up four we are in big trouble.
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I agree that a couple of wins change everything but I’m feeling pessimistic. Aside from the results the last few games have shown worrying signs as we head into these must win fixtures. Tactical issues from smith, players looking ragged, lack of bottle.
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The next four games will tell the story, pick up eight points we will be okay pick up four we are in big trouble.
Need some space between us and our upcoming opponents. After how wasteful we've been this season, losing or drawing from winning positions, we need NINE points from the next 3 league matches. Any other outcome and he needs his marching orders.
I'd feel a bit more patient with him if you could see organisation, effort and a little improvement over the course of the season so far, but we're not. We're going backwards - And fast!
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He’s not going to stop the rot by merrily carrying on as if it will magically turn around on it’s own. I think our record shows we are not good enough to play this open, expansive 4-3-3 formation as better teams are just picking us off.
He needs to evolve and adapt or we need to find someone else. We need to be back to an average of a point a game by the turn of the year as a minimum.
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I've stopped watching the other football highlights when we lose, that's not a good sign.
The problem with the next 3 league games is that there is now enormous pressure to get results therefore making the games more difficult. The key from the Leicester game was the response and there wasn't one.
I'm trying to look for positives, particularly where the managers position is concerned but I'm very gloomy at the moment. Football always has the ability to surprise. Here's hoping....
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Went yesterday and was thoroughly deflated by the whole experience.
1. We have some utter bellends as fans.
2. Smith needs to get a grip of his tactical approach, it’s quite patently been worked out by most teams and he refuses to change it even when having to chase the game. His biggest difficulty is the two front wide players are absolutely critical in making the system work and El Ghazi and Trezeguet for different reasons are just not good enough to make it work. With Grealish it just limits his effectiveness and he ends up being peripheral.
3. The players yesterday just weren’t at it physically or mentally. All the defeats have taken their toll, there was a lack of tracking back, appalling ball retention and willingness to pass and move.
All in all we look like a newly promoted team who’ve run out of ideas and have been worked out.
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There were a few instances yesterday when we had possession and there was not a single player running off the ball to make a pass possible. It really was a performance lacking in pretty much everything needed to even have a sniff of a result.
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Went yesterday and was thoroughly deflated by the whole experience.
1. We have some utter bellends as fans.
2. Smith needs to get a grip of his tactical approach, it’s quite patently been worked out by most teams and he refuses to change it even when having to chase the game. His biggest difficulty is the two front wide players are absolutely critical in making the system work and El Ghazi and Trezeguet for different reasons are just not good enough to make it work. With Grealish it just limits his effectiveness and he ends up being peripheral.
3. The players yesterday just weren’t at it physically or mentally. All the defeats have taken their toll, there was a lack of tracking back, appalling ball retention and willingness to pass and move.
All in all we look like a newly promoted team who’ve run out of ideas and have been worked out.
Your observations make for depressing reading. Apart from the inevitable continued bellend contingent, DS needs to learn lessons - and learn 'em fast: otherwise he will go the way of so many others who couldn't deal with the inherent expectations that are part & parcel of being the manager of Aston Villa. I sincerely hope he manages to turn this around asap.
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You simply couldn't make it up, we go into the the Christmas period of 3 games between 21st and 28th, a little over a week, we play the 3 teams below us, this is without doubt the defining moment in the season for Villa and Smith, normal circumstances would say 9 points, that's what we should go for, this is the moment we can either get back on track or spiral into the abyss, very interesting matches coming up.
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Supporting the Villa is a bit like having kids. Somedays they make you so happy and proud and somedays they drive you to despair and you could tear your hair out but you still end up loving the sods everyday.
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We really were piss poor today. We're missing amongst other things an in-form McGinn and a decent centre forward. I thought Hause did ok and Grealish tried his best to get us going (totally wasted out wide by the way) but it all looked too predictable at times and it wasn't good enough.
I hope to God that JM gets the 'Super' back quicksticks. I appreciate that many players inevitably go in & out of form and don't shine if they're being played out of their preferred position, so I hope the aforementioned' explain his alarming drop in form. I guess there's always the possibility that his head's been turned by a clandestine approach from another club looking to splash the cash in January, but I'd like to think he's far more professional than that. I guess we'll have to wait & see how things pan out...
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We really were piss poor today. We're missing amongst other things an in-form McGinn and a decent centre forward. I thought Hause did ok and Grealish tried his best to get us going (totally wasted out wide by the way) but it all looked too predictable at times and it wasn't good enough.
I hope to God that JM gets the 'Super' back quicksticks. I appreciate that many players inevitably go in & out of form and don't shine if they're being played out of their preferred position, so I hope the aforementioned' explain his alarming drop in form. I guess there's always the possibility that his head's been turned by a clandestine approach from another club looking to splash the cash in January, but I'd like to think he's far more professional than that. I guess we'll have to wait & see how things pan out...
I think it’s simpler, he’s playing fast, tiring 90 minute matches twice a week constantly.
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Someone said elsewhere on here that he's having injections before games and if that's true, he should be left out for a little bit.
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Went yesterday and was thoroughly deflated by the whole experience.
1. We have some utter bellends as fans.
2. Smith needs to get a grip of his tactical approach, it’s quite patently been worked out by most teams and he refuses to change it even when having to chase the game. His biggest difficulty is the two front wide players are absolutely critical in making the system work and El Ghazi and Trezeguet for different reasons are just not good enough to make it work. With Grealish it just limits his effectiveness and he ends up being peripheral.
3. The players yesterday just weren’t at it physically or mentally. All the defeats have taken their toll, there was a lack of tracking back, appalling ball retention and willingness to pass and move.
All in all we look like a newly promoted team who’ve run out of ideas and have been worked out.
Have to agree with you, but would also add McGinn's drop in form is a main factor, why we are being dominated in midfield.
Regards the fans, are you talking about a handful or quite a sizeable number and in what way are they bellends?
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We really were piss poor today. We're missing amongst other things an in-form McGinn and a decent centre forward. I thought Hause did ok and Grealish tried his best to get us going (totally wasted out wide by the way) but it all looked too predictable at times and it wasn't good enough.
I hope to God that JM gets the 'Super' back quicksticks. I appreciate that many players inevitably go in & out of form and don't shine if they're being played out of their preferred position, so I hope the aforementioned' explain his alarming drop in form. I guess there's always the possibility that his head's been turned by a clandestine approach from another club looking to splash the cash in January, but I'd like to think he's far more professional than that. I guess we'll have to wait & see how things pan out...
I think it’s simpler, he’s playing fast, tiring 90 minute matches twice a week constantly.
Top point - well made. It's difficult to see a way of managing the situation that doesn't involve resting him, especially as we're so reliant on him; and we don't have anybody of a similar ilk to provide effective cover. Perhaps it's time DS tweaked his system in order to get the best out of players who could come in & 'do a job'?!
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To put in some perspective, we went to Old Trafford 2 weeks ago & should have come away with more than 1 point. We also gave Liverpool a game for 80mins. Last week we were taught a lesson.
Generally our away performances haven't been good enough & yesterday was another example. We are not physically strong enough. The team isn't built to dig in & grind out results.
There are issues with some of Smith's selections, tactics & lack of alternatives. But dramatic changes in management & tactics won't deliver a better outcome. Many of this squad are simply not good enough or not good enough yet? One or two key additions will help enormously.
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There were a few instances yesterday when we had possession and there was not a single player running off the ball to make a pass possible.
I noticed the same when we had a throw-in. Nobody wanted the ball, it was almost comical how the players managed to disappear.
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There were a few instances yesterday when we had possession and there was not a single player running off the ball to make a pass possible.
I noticed the same when we had a throw-in. Nobody wanted the ball, it was almost comical how the players managed to disappear.
what about Nakamba on a few occasions under limited pressure just booting the ball back to Sheff Utd. Just did not want the ball and he was far from the only one. Confidence is on the floor and there is all kinds of responsibility shirking going on.
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Well yesterday the full backs were being forced right back by Sheffield’s and didn’t offer any support forward, whether this was from lack of confidence, courage, experience, instruction or fitness I don’t know. This meant there wasn’t the ball on for Nakamba so he just booted it.
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The 2nd goal started with Hause down in the left back area with the ball with no outball , he ended up just lumping it down the line , they got ball and scored with their next attack ..
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All in all we look like a newly promoted team who’ve run out of ideas and have been worked out.
I agree on "have been worked out" and ineffectiveness of McGinn and our wide players is clear evidence of that.
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Our best midfield is Grealish in the centre
Mcginn, Luiz then Nakamba/Hourihane depending on how dominant the opposition midfield is on paper
no point fucking about with anyone else
play your best ball players in their best positions every week and let them develop together
same with the back 4 when they are all fit