Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on December 04, 2019, 09:23:22 PM

Title: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 04, 2019, 09:23:22 PM
Get Wes off

Utter shit tonight. All of them
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: itbrvilla on December 04, 2019, 09:24:11 PM
Sloppy, poor, toothless, shit.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 04, 2019, 09:24:12 PM
Not the worst result but a poor performance overall and yet we showed glimspes of decent play.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 04, 2019, 09:24:19 PM
Shuffling around for 90 minutes without a care in the world. Seen that too often this season, he's got to start on the bench on Sunday.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Legion on December 04, 2019, 09:24:24 PM
Heaton did well. Wes... just why?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 04, 2019, 09:24:30 PM
Pretty ropey tonight. So sloppy at the back. That cannot continue.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 04, 2019, 09:24:48 PM
Not the worst result but a poor performance overall and yet we showed glimspes of decent play.

This
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: TonyD on December 04, 2019, 09:24:52 PM
I stand by my post from last week that Wes is the worst strike Iíve seen in 40 years.

Also, after yet another tactical game management substitutional clusterfuck Ė Dean isnít the man to win us trophies. 
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Axl Rose on December 04, 2019, 09:24:52 PM
Didn't enjoy that at all.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: itbrvilla on December 04, 2019, 09:24:54 PM
Wes was my MOTM against Everton. Absolutely unplayable. Now he looks absolutely shit.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: curiousorange on December 04, 2019, 09:25:05 PM
Get us back to Villa Park. It's only the team in third place next.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: jwarry on December 04, 2019, 09:25:08 PM
Come on boys itís going to take time. This is still a long way from 8-0 in 2012 and I saw enough to see that we will only get better
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: CT on December 04, 2019, 09:25:26 PM
Heaton MOTM.

The rest look knackered and devoid of ideas tonight.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 04, 2019, 09:25:31 PM
Could have been worse. Chelsea deserved their win but we still could have escaped with a draw. For once the other results weren't too bad. A point against Leicester and it won't have been a disastrous week.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: eric woolban woolban on December 04, 2019, 09:25:31 PM
Whenever the ball is kicked forward, Wesley appears to be thirty yards away from where it is aimed for.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Breezeblock on December 04, 2019, 09:25:40 PM
Thought Marvellous and Duggie played well tonight. SJM put a good shift in too
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: phantom limb on December 04, 2019, 09:25:45 PM
Didnít think we played that badly, they were very organised, played effectively and were often first to every second ball. Ref let a lot of stuff go I thought, which didnít help us
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Drummond on December 04, 2019, 09:25:45 PM
They had a plan with better players to execute it.

We were second to most stuff and made some silly mistakes.

No point blaming Wesley, it just wasn't his night and was given nothing.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 04, 2019, 09:25:48 PM
They're just a better team from what I saw. They pressured our defenders into mistakes and were more coherent, and sharper, all over the pitch.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 04, 2019, 09:25:51 PM
Shite. 2-1 flattered us to be perfectly honest.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: themossman on December 04, 2019, 09:25:59 PM
Positives... we could have been stuffed but werenít.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 04, 2019, 09:26:04 PM
No complaints. They were miles better. Miracle we only lost 2-1 really.

Just move on from this as it's rare anyone actually wins at Chelsea. I know West Ham did but Chelsea didn't have Kante or Tammy starting who are huge for them.

Leicester and Sheffield going to be tough but we can get draws from those if we play well.

Dean and his subs....don't really get how Kodjia can stay an unused sub when we're losing. He is obviously leaving in January.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: LukeJames on December 04, 2019, 09:26:09 PM
Probably our worst performance of the season, so flat. Chelsea couldve had atleast 4 easily.

Biggest issue for me with that one is we were getting over ran all game but we stuck with 4-3-3 throughout, it needed changing.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: bilsim on December 04, 2019, 09:26:12 PM
Must have been watching a different game to the rest of you, felt we held our own pretty well against a team that will be in the top 3 come May. The fact that the Chavski fans were whistling for full time confirms that.

Wesley isolated again and doesn't work hard enough to get involved, good effort but beaten by a better team.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: curiousorange on December 04, 2019, 09:26:21 PM
Wesley's like a brick wall. The ball just comes back off him.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: KRS on December 04, 2019, 09:26:28 PM
Proper shit performance overall but letís keep some perspective...losing 2-1 at Chelsea isnít a bad result or critical to our season, especially considering they have been top 6 for years and have spent countless millions compared to our newly assembled squad playing first season back in the PL.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 04, 2019, 09:26:45 PM
We made so many individual errors, and somehow got away with them.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 09:26:49 PM
Rubbish.  The defence is really poor at the moment.  Konsa was terrible, and Mings just can't concentrate for a full 90 minutes.  Targett was as bad as he was against Wolves.  McGinn has been anonymous for weeks now, Hourihane was weak, and Wesley is the biggest waste of money since all of our other nightmares up front.  One point off the relegation places, need a striker, urgently.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: bilsim on December 04, 2019, 09:26:54 PM
Guessing you missed the Wolves game
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Rudy65 on December 04, 2019, 09:26:57 PM
Not the worst result but a poor performance overall and yet we showed glimspes of decent play.

This

Ummm. Never looked like scoring again though. Kepa had nothing to do. i think you're being kind

How wesley gets 90 mins every week I dont know. He may come good, but as sit stands he doesnt deserve the shirt
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on December 04, 2019, 09:27:00 PM
Played poorly against a better team.

Wes tries but isn't good enough. Konsa played his worst game for us. Elmo huffed and puffed but isn't as good as Guilbert. Midfield was okay but not at their best.

Mings is bothering me. A silly error every game at the moment. He had more than one tonight. I know that he is getting used to PL football but he needs to fix up.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: curiousorange on December 04, 2019, 09:27:12 PM
One positive is that it's only one off the goal difference.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 04, 2019, 09:27:19 PM
Heaton did well. Wes... just why?

Plus this,

Wes, can't quite remember when I've last seen a Premiership player so relaxed throughout a game
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 09:27:23 PM
Proper shit performance overall but letís keep some perspective...losing 2-1 at Chelsea isnít a bad result or critical to our season, especially considering they have been top 6 for years and have spent countless millions compared to our newly assembled squad playing first season back in the PL.

2-1 doesn't really tell the whole story, they could easily have had 6 or 7 tonight.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 04, 2019, 09:27:28 PM
Whenever the ball is kicked forward, Wesley appears to be thirty yards away from where it is aimed for.

The player making the pass has to take some responsibility for that.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 04, 2019, 09:27:30 PM
Three or four moments of quality - two of them by Heaton - but apart from that we were below par.  Lack of concentration at the back worries me, as does our inability to keep possession, and Wesley.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 04, 2019, 09:27:34 PM
It was obvious that we were getting done down the left and Conor was not offering any protection to Target who was all over the place.
So what does Smith do to correct the situation? Fuck all which sadly is typical of his lack of game management.
Do we really have no other option than to persist with Weseley?
Again piss poor by our management.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Nev on December 04, 2019, 09:27:38 PM
Disappointed with the result, only listened so hard to judge the performance. Bruno on WM said it was a battling performance, we need that but we need much more to progress.
Not too downhearted, back us to stop Kojaks progress on Sunday.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on December 04, 2019, 09:27:44 PM
Fuck Amazon and fuck VAR.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: charleeco7 on December 04, 2019, 09:27:59 PM
Not the end of the world. They clearly have better players than we have but defending was poor tonight from both centre halves. We gave the ball away too easily also. Jack is wasted out wide on the left though, looks a bit frustrated to me also.
Onto Sunday.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 04, 2019, 09:28:09 PM
As poor as we were, you have to give credit to Chelsea. They were fluid tonight. It's where we want to be and let's be honest, this squad is all about staying up. Against Wolves we were crap, tonight we had little say in the matter.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 04, 2019, 09:28:22 PM
Not the worst result but a poor performance overall and yet we showed glimspes of decent play.

This

Ummm. Never looked like scoring again though. Kepa had nothing to do. i think you're being kind


Missed the good save he made?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 04, 2019, 09:28:32 PM
Sloppy, casual, call it what you will, it wasnít good enough across the park.

Hourihane was horrible, Konsa had a mare, Targett the same, McGinn and Grealish almost anonymous. As for Wesley, I despair, whatever did we see in him, he makes Heskey look like Shearer in his pomp. Smith doesnít come out smelling of roses either, piss poor substitutions yet again.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: curiousorange on December 04, 2019, 09:28:49 PM
It does annoy me a bit that tomorrow it'll be about how Lampard has gotten some kind of revenge or one over on his old mate, conveniently leaving out the fact that he's playing with our striker and a midfield which includes Willian and Kante.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 04, 2019, 09:29:19 PM
I love DS but his game management worries me at times.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Drummond on December 04, 2019, 09:29:34 PM
This streaming thing is shit. If that's the quality of their offer there's no way I'd pay.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: charleeco7 on December 04, 2019, 09:29:45 PM
It was obvious that we were getting done down the left and Conor was not offering any protection to Target who was all over the place.
So what does Smith do to correct the situation? Fuck all which sadly is typical of his lack of game management.
Do we really have no other option than to persist with Weseley?
Again piss poor by our management.


Errrrr he took Connor off and changed it around, which is when we looked better.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: The Moose on December 04, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
Grealish wide left? Thats where Bruce wasted him.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Goldie.7 on December 04, 2019, 09:30:29 PM
Wanna hear a joke... Wesley on the pitch for 94 minutes!

We were second to every ball for pretty much the entire match, only losing 2-1 flatters us. If they were winning by five or six most wouldn't have had any complaints.

When it comes to game management and changing things when they're clearly not working, Smith is utterly useless.

MOTM for me was Trezeguet.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 04, 2019, 09:31:00 PM
A 2-1 hammering. I know it was expected to some extent but I feel really depressed having watched that. So far second best it was ridiculous.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 04, 2019, 09:31:03 PM
It does annoy me a bit that tomorrow it'll be about how Lampard has gotten some kind of revenge or one over on his old mate, conveniently leaving out the fact that he's playing with our striker and a midfield which includes Willian and Kante.

Who both made our midfield dream team look downright average at best.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: curiousorange on December 04, 2019, 09:31:09 PM
Grealish wide left? Thats where Bruce wasted him.

Grealish has said multiple times that he doesn't want to play out wide. He's our best player. Play him where he wants to play imo.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 04, 2019, 09:32:42 PM
I love DS but his game management worries me at times.
There isnít any.
It is getting a bit repetitive.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: LukeJames on December 04, 2019, 09:32:53 PM
Grealish wide left? Thats where Bruce wasted him.

Why did nobody have this opinion when he destroyed Newcastle from that position or when he ran the show at Old Trafford for an hour from that position?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: curiousorange on December 04, 2019, 09:33:14 PM
Chelsea away is always a horrible fixture. We were okay there before they made it into a shoebox.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on December 04, 2019, 09:33:58 PM
I love DS but his game management worries me at times.
There isnít any.
It is getting a bit repetitive.

I'm aware that you're not the manager, but what would you have done? Kodjia for Wesley maybe, but what else?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 04, 2019, 09:34:08 PM
Grealish wide left? Thats where Bruce wasted him.

Why did nobody have this opinion when he destroyed Newcastle from that position or when he ran the show at Old Trafford for an hour from that position?

Unless we're defending then Jack plays where he wants, he's said so.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 04, 2019, 09:34:15 PM
It was obvious that we were getting done down the left and Conor was not offering any protection to Target who was all over the place.
So what does Smith do to correct the situation? Fuck all which sadly is typical of his lack of game management.
Do we really have no other option than to persist with Weseley?
Again piss poor by our management.


Errrrr he took Connor off and changed it around, which is when we looked better.

Half time was when to make th exchange, not after theyíd gone 2-1 up.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Newby on December 04, 2019, 09:34:40 PM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Drummond on December 04, 2019, 09:34:51 PM
It does annoy me a bit that tomorrow it'll be about how Lampard has gotten some kind of revenge or one over on his old mate, conveniently leaving out the fact that he's playing with our striker and a midfield which includes Willian and Kante.

Who both made our midfield dream team look downright average at best.

Well given their experience, and trophy collection, it's hardly a surprise.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: TonyD on December 04, 2019, 09:35:22 PM
I love DS but his game management worries me at times.
There isnít any.
It is getting a bit repetitive.
He canít or wonít do the basics when it comes to subs.  Big big worry.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 04, 2019, 09:35:23 PM
I'm aware that you're not the manager, but what would you have done? Kodjia for Wesley maybe, but what else?
That says as much about the quality of our squad as it does about Smith.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: djbone on December 04, 2019, 09:35:43 PM
It was obvious that we were getting done down the left and Conor was not offering any protection to Target who was all over the place.
So what does Smith do to correct the situation? Fuck all which sadly is typical of his lack of game management.
Do we really have no other option than to persist with Weseley?
Again piss poor by our management.


He changed Conor for Doug? And no we don't have any other option. Bit harsh.

They were very good. We competed against a midfield of Kante, Kovacic, Mount and Pulisic who were all excellent, and got done down the sides.

I thought Konsa played well, loads of blocks.

But yeah Heaton motm says it all.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 04, 2019, 09:35:53 PM
It was obvious that we were getting done down the left and Conor was not offering any protection to Target who was all over the place.
So what does Smith do to correct the situation? Fuck all which sadly is typical of his lack of game management.
Do we really have no other option than to persist with Weseley?
Again piss poor by our management.


Errrrr he took Connor off and changed it around, which is when we looked better.

Half time was when to make th exchange, not after theyíd gone 2-1 up.
Exactly, stable horse door bolted locking
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Drummond on December 04, 2019, 09:36:40 PM
Look at their line-up compared to ours. They've won leagues cups and champions league.. We've just been promoted.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 04, 2019, 09:36:41 PM
What worries me is that whenever Grealish either isnít playing or not on song (Chelsea marked him out of the game tonight), we resemble a pub team with no fluency or quality.
Pluses - McGinnís most active game in recent weeks, but with no end product.
Heaton - quality
Negs - CBs. Konsa had a mare tonight and Engels needs to come straight back in. Mings still has a mistake in him every game.
Wesley. Showing effort, but rarely where he should be on the pitch. Compare his play tonight to Tammyís.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: curiousorange on December 04, 2019, 09:36:44 PM
Chelsea were very good at cutting off space tonight. Two players on Grealish most of the time, pushing our forward play right to the touchline. That takes a lot of fitness and a heck of a lot of discipline and experience. Although we were shit tonight, it was a little like a Championship team finding themselves playing in a Champions League tie. We've got one, maybe two players who could hold their own against your Pulisics and Kantes.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: CT on December 04, 2019, 09:36:52 PM
Fuming at Conor and Targett stood there watching while the Chelsea player just stands over the ball before the second goal.

Bit of a miracle it was only 2-1.

Won't be any easier Sunday, I think Leicester are more dangerous than Chelsea.

Drop Konsa for Engels for a start. Tyrone hardly covered himself in glory tonight. If he relaxes any more, he'll be asleep.

Tom Heaton was superb. That's about it IMO.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: RichardBatchelor on December 04, 2019, 09:37:22 PM
Chelsea (horrible club though it is) were excellent and stopped what threat we had. Move on.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Legion on December 04, 2019, 09:37:40 PM
I know I am biased and have already posted this on the Wesley thread but Cam would offer far, far more than Wes.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: LukeJames on December 04, 2019, 09:38:34 PM
The thing that pissee me off the most was the lack of effort to blockbthe balls into the box for both goals, it was the same for Liverpools equaliser at VP,  stood there watching, no pressure at all.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 09:38:40 PM
Willian was outstanding for them tonight.  We just couldn't live with his movement and overall quality.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 04, 2019, 09:39:13 PM
Fuming at Conor and Targett stood there watching while the Chelsea player just stands over the ball before the second goal.

Bit of a miracle it was only 2-1.

Won't be any easier Sunday, I think Leicester are more dangerous than Chelsea.

Drop Konsa for Engels for a start. Tyrone hardly covered himself in glory tonight. If he relaxes any more, he'll be asleep.

Tom Heaton was superb. That's about it IMO.

Agree, of the last few games, Man U, Chelsea, its the Leicester game that plain scary.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 04, 2019, 09:39:23 PM
Mingsí general apathy for the first 60 mins seemed to rub off on the rest of the team. They need to sharpen up, we arenít good enough to coast.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 04, 2019, 09:40:13 PM
Grealish wide left? Thats where Bruce wasted him.

Yeh that shit has to stop too. I donít mind him drifting out there but heís not remotely as dangerous as he is in the middle.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 04, 2019, 09:40:43 PM
Willian was outstanding for them tonight.  We just couldn't live with his movement and overall quality.

He was. That kind of player is sadly out of our reach at the moment. Even if we splashed the owners' considerable wad, we'd end up with Robinho rather than Willian.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Villafirst on December 04, 2019, 09:40:53 PM
Mings looks better with Engels in my opinion. Smith needs to put Bjorn back in against Leicester. Hause needs a chance as well, at least on the bench.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: robbo1874 on December 04, 2019, 09:41:42 PM
I think I can safely say I underestimated Chelsea before this. I donít think Villa were that bad really, but that spell from half time up to the hourihane sub, Chelsea were excellent.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Vegas on December 04, 2019, 09:41:59 PM
We canít be too disappointed with a 2-2 and a 2-1 from the last two games. We knew it would be tough this year. The 2-1 flattered us but the 2-2 flattered Man Utd.

Chelseaís midfield is very strong and it showed tonight.

We need strengthening in several areas, notably striker and another midfielder although we were better with Luiz on.

Worries for me were Wes, Smith not replacing Wes with Kodjia, and Mingsís general sloppiness.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on December 04, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
Chelsea really are a team of dirty, cynical, fouling scum. No class - shirt pulling, sly kicks, niggle and wasting time. There was only one decent team on that pitch. We came to play. They had class moments in attack, but they played to stifle our players.

The ref gave us very little considering the amount of niggle.

We lost, but we challenged all the way. We have come so far so quickly.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 09:42:14 PM
Grealish wide left? Thats where Bruce wasted him.

Yeh that shit has to stop too. I donít mind him drifting out there but heís not remotely as dangerous as he is in the middle.

The trouble is this season when he's played in the midfield three he drops too deep looking for the ball a lot of the time.  It also means the front three lose his quality.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: charleeco7 on December 04, 2019, 09:42:19 PM
It was obvious that we were getting done down the left and Conor was not offering any protection to Target who was all over the place.
So what does Smith do to correct the situation? Fuck all which sadly is typical of his lack of game management.
Do we really have no other option than to persist with Weseley?
Again piss poor by our management.


Errrrr he took Connor off and changed it around, which is when we looked better.

Half time was when to make th exchange, not after theyíd gone 2-1 up.
Exactly, stable horse door bolted locking

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Rarely does that happen and youíd kill a players confidence in doing so.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Clampy on December 04, 2019, 09:42:28 PM
I thought we were ok in patches, but backed off them far too much and it could have been worse than it was. We looked better when Luiz came on and for those saying he should have come on at the start of the second half, maybe but you don't normally make a change when you've equalised before half time so I can see why he didn't. I thought the Jota sub was a bit odd though.

Overall, disappointed but not totally gutted.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: mrfuse on December 04, 2019, 09:42:31 PM
This streaming thing is shit. If that's the quality of their offer there's no way I'd pay.

Been perfectly fine for me, unless you are referring to our display tonight.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: KRS on December 04, 2019, 09:43:12 PM
Another bit of perspective...Chelsea were coming off the back of 2 defeats so 3 on the bounce would have been highly unlikely. It was always going to be a big ask to get a win or draw, and they seemed very much up for it tonight and were too much for us to handle for most of the game. Could have been a lot worse if theyíve taken advantage of their possession and been more clinical.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Flin5tone on December 04, 2019, 09:43:27 PM
Mings was awful, again.

Heaton prevented it from being 7.

Shite
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: mrfuse on December 04, 2019, 09:43:37 PM
I thought we were ok in patches, but backed off them far too much and it could have been worse than it was. We looked better when Luiz came on and for those saying he should have come on at the start of the second half, maybe but you don't normally make a change when you've equalised before half time so I can see why he didn't. I thought the Jota sub was a bit odd though.

Overall, disappointed but not totally gutted.

I think that's a fair comment.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Clampy on December 04, 2019, 09:44:09 PM
Willian was outstanding for them tonight.  We just couldn't live with his movement and overall quality.

Yes, he was excellent.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Loxton01 on December 04, 2019, 09:44:57 PM
Better team won unfortunately. We werenít disgraced and plugged on but they clearly could of scored more

We have a real conundrum in midfield hourihane set pieces but in games today bar the first ten mins his mobility was exposed. McGinn also struggles more. We looked better with Luiz in midfield and I thought marvellous did a really good job.

Luiz marvellous and McGinn Sunday for me

Heaton played very well Elmo did ok too. Mings overplays too often konza shaky but did put a lot of good blocks in.

Wesley is the clear weak link he just looks off the pace. We must get a striker in January.

Trez drifts in and out but does ok. Jota is not a prem league player

I think we have a good chance Sunday if we play the right team
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Vegas on December 04, 2019, 09:45:06 PM
There was only one decent team on that pitch. We came to play


Not sure about that
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: ez on December 04, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
It was painfull seeing Tammy in a Chelsea shirt tonight when we desperately need him. We were second best but with a bit of presence up front we could have nicked something.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: olaftab on December 04, 2019, 09:51:16 PM
They are and weíre better than us tonight. We are where we are. Just need to pick up 6 points from our next 4 games and we will be ok.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: MalcolmP on December 04, 2019, 09:52:08 PM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
   At last some sense about Wesley - Messi could do no more with high balls up to him with no  support and surrounded by 3 defenders. All the Wesley haters just stop making him a scapegoat..Mings and Mcginn both need dropping and is Targett really any better than Taylior?



Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 04, 2019, 09:52:51 PM
Better team won unfortunately. We werenít disgraced and plugged on but they clearly could of scored more

We have a real conundrum in midfield hourihane set pieces but in games today bar the first ten mins his mobility was exposed. McGinn also struggles more. We looked better with Luiz in midfield and I thought marvellous did a really good job.

Luiz marvellous and McGinn Sunday for me

Heaton played very well Elmo did ok too. Mings overplays too often konza shaky but did put a lot of good blocks in.

Wesley is the clear weak link he just looks off the pace. We must get a striker in January.

Trez drifts in and out but does ok. Jota is not a prem league player

I think we have a good chance Sunday if we play the right team
I wish I shared your optimism about Sunday.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: CT Villan on December 04, 2019, 09:55:46 PM
A tale of two halves. First half I thought we were very competitive, but second half they went up a gear and we went into reverse. That said we had a couple of good chances to equalize though we would have been arrested for daylight (nightlight) robbery.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on December 04, 2019, 09:57:09 PM
Mings looks better with Engels in my opinion. Smith needs to put Bjorn back in against Leicester. Hause needs a chance as well, at least on the bench.

Thought Mings was fine tonight, Konsa next to him was at fault for two goals and couldnt handle Tammy I thought. Would be bringing Engels back in, Konsa has a lot of potential but ball watches far too much. He didnt show enough courage with the ball to step into midfield either.

Chelsea were poor early on, despite lots of possession, but we gave them far too much respect especially down our left side. After they scored, we suddenly got stuck into them. Grealish was outstanding in that spell before half time, crucial to what was a fine equaliser.

I was confident at half time but to be honest we were played off the pitch at times in the second half. Hourihane and Targett's powder puff resistance to stopping Willian or crosses coming in, didnt help. 2-1 flattered us really, Heaton made a series of fine saves. Much better cameo from Luiz when he came in,was living watching his efforts chasing back against Willian (72 min) but he was first man to react to the free kick hitting the bar. Also got a fine header on target forcing a good save.

Jota coming on, Lansbury coming on at Old Trafford, Wes struggles (and the clear lack of faith in Kodjia), sums up the lack of quality in the squad. Lack of pace in our side is a real worry too, AEG was badly missed in that regard tonight.

Tough night, we go again..

Heaton 8, Elmo 7, Konsa 5, Mings 7, Targett 5, Nakamba 6, McGinn 6, Hourihane 4, Trez 6, Wes 4, Grealish 7. Luiz 7, Jota 5
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: villabear on December 04, 2019, 10:04:16 PM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
   At last some sense about Wesley - Messi could do no more with high balls up to him with no  support and surrounded by 3 defenders. All the Wesley haters just stop making him a scapegoat..Mings and Mcginn both need dropping and is Targett really any better than Taylior?




Don't agree on Wesley. I donít expect him to do miracles but I do expect him to hold the ball up occasionally and take a bit of pressure of us as surely thatís why heís there. Does he look a goal threat, no and McGinn needs dropping eh 🙄
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 10:06:00 PM


Heaton 8, Elmo 7, Konsa 5, Mings 7, Targett 5, Nakamba 6, McGinn 6, Hourihane 4, Trez 6, Wes 4, Grealish 7. Luiz 7, Jota 5

I'd say:

Heaton 8
Elmo 6
Konsa 5
Mings 5
Targett 4
Nakamba 6
Hourihane 4 (Luiz 7)
McGinn 6
Trez 6
Wesley 4
Grealish 7

Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Loxton01 on December 04, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
A lot of overreaction on here we were much worse against wolves we competed tonight but we have to face facts we are a newly promoted team and we finding our feet. What we must do is improve the squad in jan with a couple more players up front.

We are on track but need to keep improving.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Sdwbvf on December 04, 2019, 10:07:45 PM
I thought we were ok overall. We had a couple of dodgy moments that led to goals but soaked up s lot of pressure that could have led to more. Mings had a couple of howlers but was at least clearing it more tonight. McGinn seemed to have picked up. Grealish was fouled out of the game.

I wish Tammy was still ours (Even if he wasn't really amyway). If he was we would be top six. Good to see him after the game embracing the backroom staff and players.

I was particularly pleased with the noise from the Villa. On TV that's all you could hear for most of the game!


Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Newby on December 04, 2019, 10:08:07 PM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
   At last some sense about Wesley - Messi could do no more with high balls up to him with no  support and surrounded by 3 defenders. All the Wesley haters just stop making him a scapegoat..Mings and Mcginn both need dropping and is Targett really any better than Taylior?




Don't agree on Wesley. I donít expect him to do miracles but I do expect him to hold the ball up occasionally and take a bit of pressure of us as surely thatís why heís there. Does he look a goal threat, no and McGinn needs dropping eh 🙄

Mate, seriously, if you have ever played centre forward and all you get is the ball whacked up to you, high in the air and you are on your own, I defy anyone to do any better.  Yes, I want him to push people over and compete, show more bollocks, but the way we play, does him no favours either.  He does need more physicality but he is NOT totally at fault.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 04, 2019, 10:08:22 PM
Until he popped up with the equaliser I genuinely didn't know Trez was playing.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Villafirst on December 04, 2019, 10:08:46 PM
Hause deserves a chance at Left back. He was excellent there last season. He would also add height and strength at the back. He was MOTM against Wolves in the Carabao Cup.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 04, 2019, 10:08:48 PM
Heaton 9
Elmo 6
Konsa 4
Mings 4
Targett 4
Nakamba 5.8
Hourihane 4 (Luiz 7)
McGinn 4.9478
Trez 6 (Jota 4)
Wesley 10
Grealish 6.8
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 10:08:58 PM
Until he popped up with the equaliser I genuinely didn't know Trez was playing.

He touched the ball three times before then.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: themossman on December 04, 2019, 10:09:25 PM
Trez was anonymous for most of the game then briefly our best outfield player then got subbed. Funny night for him.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 10:09:51 PM
Hause deserves a chance at Left back. He was excellent there last season. He would also add height and strength at the back. He was MOTM against Wolves in the Carabao Cup.

He was back in the squad for the last couple of games, but was dropped for Taylor on the bench tonight.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 04, 2019, 10:10:47 PM
Heaton 9
Elmo 6
Konsa 4
Mings 4
Targett 4
Nakamba 5.8
Hourihane 4 (Luiz 7)
McGinn 4.9478
Trez 6 (Jota 4)
Wesley 0.1
Grealish 6.8

Bryce asked me to fix it for you
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on December 04, 2019, 10:11:55 PM
Until he popped up with the equaliser I genuinely didn't know Trez was playing.

yeah, he was utterly hopeless until then. put in a decent enough shift after then though.

strange player isnt he? one paced, one footed, predictable in his play

yet has scored in his last three starts, and unlucky not to get one at Old Trafford
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: FatSam on December 04, 2019, 10:12:44 PM
Things would have had to really click for us to beat Chelsea. The fact is that things didnít quite click. They played pretty well, and we made mistakes.

I donít agree that Wesley wasnít trying. It is incredibly difficult to be the lone striker when we have so little of the play. Of course he has good and bad games, and it would be better if we could swap him out every now and then, but we donít have a realistic alternative. That is the only weakness from our summer business, and yet some commentators say that we made too many changes.

Their midfield 4 cost them £32m, £40m, £57m and the other one has been with them since he was 6. Theyíre still paying Danny Drinkwater £100k/ week.

I wasnít there for the 8-0, but I did go to the 7-1, and the fact that we were going toe-to-toe with them gives me confidence that we are on the right track.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Drummond on December 04, 2019, 10:15:50 PM
Their squad worth about four times ours.

Their trophy count significantly higher.

They've been in the top reaches of the league for years and won the Champions League only We've just been promoted having been in the championship and before that having circled the Premier League plughole for half a decade.

They won the league as recently as 2017 and the Europa League last season.

It's the reality, we're going to have bad days, and this is precisely the sort of team it's likely to happen against.

I was flat watching it, as it didn't look like we'd get anything from the game. However xwe hung in there and didn't get hammered (score wise).

Onwards.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: mrfuse on December 04, 2019, 10:15:59 PM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
   At last some sense about Wesley - Messi could do no more with high balls up to him with no  support and surrounded by 3 defenders. All the Wesley haters just stop making him a scapegoat..Mings and Mcginn both need dropping and is Targett really any better than Taylior?





I cant agree with this. Wesley needs to put himself about more not just stand still complaining.

Targett is far better than Taylor, Admittedly it was a Tough game for him tonight as Willian was fantastic.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 04, 2019, 10:18:49 PM
Swap Danny Ings for Wesley and we'd be fine. But we're not fine are we? Wes is just not going to score or even look like scoring. We have to have a scoring presence if we want to stay in this league...
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: villabear on December 04, 2019, 10:23:08 PM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
   At last some sense about Wesley - Messi could do no more with high balls up to him with no  support and surrounded by 3 defenders. All the Wesley haters just stop making him a scapegoat..Mings and Mcginn both need dropping and is Targett really any better than Taylior?




Don't agree on Wesley. I donít expect him to do miracles but I do expect him to hold the ball up occasionally and take a bit of pressure of us as surely thatís why heís there. Does he look a goal threat, no and McGinn needs dropping eh 🙄

Mate, seriously, if you have ever played centre forward and all you get is the ball whacked up to you, high in the air and you are on your own, I defy anyone to do any better.  Yes, I want him to push people over and compete, show more bollocks, but the way we play, does him no favours either.  He does need more physicality but he is NOT totally at fault.

I didnít say he NOT totally at fault but Iím sorry heís our only option as centre forward with the way we play and yet while I feel sometimes he doesnít get the service heís a big guy and he needs to take pressure off us a bit more by using his physicality. So letís put it another way, would buy another striker in the window?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on December 04, 2019, 10:24:40 PM
It was painfull seeing Tammy in a Chelsea shirt tonight when we desperately need him. We were second best but with a bit of presence up front we could have nicked something.
He was always going to score against us wasn't he?  :'(
What sort of reception did he get from the Villa fans who were there?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 04, 2019, 10:25:21 PM
I didnít say he NOT totally at fault but Iím sorry heís our only option as centre forward with the way we play and yet while I feel sometimes he doesnít get the service heís a big guy and he needs to take pressure off us a bit more by using his physicality. So letís put it another way, would buy another striker in the window?
If he's ineffective because of the way we play it begs the question why we bought him in the first place.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 04, 2019, 10:26:52 PM
Our record at HT
W7 D6 L2 F11 A6

Our record at FT
W4 D3 L8 F22 A24
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 04, 2019, 10:30:52 PM
Swap Danny Ings for Wesley and we'd be fine. But we're not fine are we? Wes is just not going to score or even look like scoring. We have to have a scoring presence if we want to stay in this league...

Aren't we the fifth highest scorers in the league? Mental when you look at our striker options which are arguably worst in the league when you compare them to Ings as you mention, Norwich who have Pukki scoring again and Watford with Deeney who's proved himself a capable prem striker over last 5 years.

It's not all Wes's fault. At this moment in time it's unfair asking him to play every single minute of every league game as he's simply not near the level required for that. Benteke obviously was once he fully settled in.

We messed up not getting in another forward in the summer. No chance we make the same mistake next month particularly as Kodj will leave.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Villafirst on December 04, 2019, 10:32:11 PM
It shouldn't be overlooked that apart from Newcastle, we've had an incredibly difficult run of games, including - Man City, Liverpool, Wolves, Man Utd and Chelsea. And we've got Leicester next who are flying. Even Sheffield United away will be tough.
For me, the Christmas games against Southampton, Norwich, Watford and Burnley will be the most crucial as to our direction going into the New Year.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Legion on December 04, 2019, 10:34:08 PM
It shouldn't be overlooked that apart from Newcastle, we've had an incredibly difficult run of games, including - Man City, Liverpool, Wolves, Man Utd and Chelsea. And we've got Leicester next who are flying. Even Sheffield United away will be tough.
For me, the Christmas games against Southampton, Norwich, Watford and Burnley will be the most crucial as to our direction going into the New Year.

I agree with that.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: AV82EC on December 04, 2019, 10:36:29 PM
Hhmmm

Heaton - 8 MOTM good performance and good saves
Elmo - 7 gem of an assist and I thought played ok, was certainly our most creative outlet.
Konsa - 5 a real chalk and cheese performance, utterly abysmal followed by oh good block/tackle.
Mings - 5 similar his at times sloppy play is starting to annoy. Sharpen up Tyrone.
Targett - 5 was playing alright for about 50 odd minutes then the whole thing went to shit and he was abysmal.
Nakamba - 7 was doing far too much on his own at times.
McGinn - 7 definitely better than the last few games, seemed sharper and was using that great arse turn he does to full effect.
Hourihane - 5 anonymous in my view
Trez - 6 gets a point for his goal but was anonymous before that and a total passenger.
SuperJack - 7 very good first half but was anonymous 2nd half.
Wesley - 3 tried but his lack of mobility and to be fair support around him means he just isnít in the game.
Doug L - 7 was encouraged by his performance coming on as he did and we seemed better for it.

Deano - 5 we still seem to be searching for our identity as a group at the moment, itís not quite clicking as others have commented but when we play, as we showed in flashes tonight, we can compete.

Away fans - 10 loud proud and about all you could hear on the TV.

Onwards.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: mrfuse on December 04, 2019, 10:36:58 PM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
   At last some sense about Wesley - Messi could do no more with high balls up to him with no  support and surrounded by 3 defenders. All the Wesley haters just stop making him a scapegoat..Mings and Mcginn both need dropping and is Targett really any better than Taylior?




Don't agree on Wesley. I donít expect him to do miracles but I do expect him to hold the ball up occasionally and take a bit of pressure of us as surely thatís why heís there. Does he look a goal threat, no and McGinn needs dropping eh 🙄

Mate, seriously, if you have ever played centre forward and all you get is the ball whacked up to you, high in the air and you are on your own, I defy anyone to do any better.  Yes, I want him to push people over and compete, show more bollocks, but the way we play, does him no favours either.  He does need more physicality but he is NOT totally at fault.


But we don't just whack the ball up to him. Okay tonight we were limited but we haven't played like that every game.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Legion on December 04, 2019, 10:41:13 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/chelsea-vs-a-villa/408127
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Luke8 on December 04, 2019, 10:42:21 PM
It shouldn't be overlooked that apart from Newcastle, we've had an incredibly difficult run of games, including - Man City, Liverpool, Wolves, Man Utd and Chelsea. And we've got Leicester next who are flying. Even Sheffield United away will be tough.
For me, the Christmas games against Southampton, Norwich, Watford and Burnley will be the most crucial as to our direction going into the New Year.

I agree with that.

As would I. I would also add that there is a reasonable chance that we will come out of these next two games still outside the relegation zone with that run of easier fixtures to come to hopefully push us up the table.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on December 04, 2019, 10:44:21 PM
There was only one decent team on that pitch. We came to play




Not sure about that

The first part is an exaggeration, sure. Particularly when you remove the rest of the original post which offers my reasons for saying this.

But the second part stands. We came to play. They were cynical and full of niggle.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: tomd2103 on December 04, 2019, 10:53:03 PM
Think Dean Smith and the coaching staff got it wrong tonight.  We were far too open in midfield at times tonight and in games like that away from home, we need to go with Luiz and Nakamba.  Hourihane is far too lightweight to compete against those type of sides and they just strolled past him at will.

We may be able to play with just the one holding midfielder against the poorer sides in the league, but we need to be a lot stronger in there when we come up against the better sides.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 10:57:22 PM
Think Dean Smith and the coaching staff got it wrong tonight.  We were far too open in midfield at times tonight and in games like that away from home, we need to go with Luiz and Nakamba.  Hourihane is far too lightweight to compete against those type of sides and they just strolled past him at will.

We may be able to play with just the one holding midfielder against the poorer sides in the league, but we need to be a lot stronger in there when we come up against the better sides.

I'm a fan of Smith, but his in-game management needs to improve.  He sticks religiously to 4-3-3 even though we've been overrun playing it on a regular basis especially when away from home, and his subs rarely have a positive effect on a game.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Luke8 on December 04, 2019, 10:58:47 PM
Think Dean Smith and the coaching staff got it wrong tonight.  We were far too open in midfield at times tonight and in games like that away from home, we need to go with Luiz and Nakamba.  Hourihane is far too lightweight to compete against those type of sides and they just strolled past him at will.


Obviously easy to say in hindsight, but tonight was one of the games where a change in shape could of really helped the players and perhaps covered somewhat the tiredness/lack of energy. We were not able to press well high up the pitch and caught ahead of the ball to far too often which left us very exposed at the back.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: RamboandBruno on December 04, 2019, 11:05:29 PM
The high and lows of this site. Most people on a high after Sunday, to an overwhelming gloom tonight.

We were beaten by a better side tonight. But itís not a disaster and while it wasnít a great performance it wasnít terrible (like wolves) either.

Drawing with Man Utd doesnít mean weíll stay up, losing by one goal to a very good Chelsea side doesnít mean weíll go down. As some others have said, the Xmas period and Southampton, Norwich, Watford and Burnley is vital, if we can manage 9/10 points from them I think weíll be ok.

On some of the comments tonight;

-smith made a change tonight that actually gave us a foothold in the game, Luiz for Hourihane. Not sure why he would make a change at 1-1 at half time to one of the best sides in the league;

-despite not creating much their keeper still had to make a great save from luizís header late on;

-they played grealish well always having two on him;

-Targett is a much better player than Taylor, but was weak in a few challenges late on;

-we love a scapegoat down the villa. Wesley obviously not the best in the world, but away from home especially heís isolated (hence grealish on the left). He also won loads of headers tonight, but there was no one there to pick up pieces. Kodjia is not good enough, which is why he doesnít come on.

-El Ghazi is better than Trez.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 04, 2019, 11:08:23 PM
There was only one decent team on that pitch. We came to play




Not sure about that

The first part is an exaggeration, sure. Particularly when you remove the rest of the original post which offers my reasons for saying this.

But the second part stands. We came to play. They were cynical and full of niggle.

Have no idea how you can come to that conclusion. They had 66% possession and 17 shots, 11 on target. We were crap and totally outplayed.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: GXVilla on December 04, 2019, 11:24:15 PM
Best Villa performance Iíve seen this season and Iíve seen us beat Everton and Newcastle. Chelsea were very good tonight. Tammy and Kante make a huge difference for them and they played some fantastic football.
Somehow we stayed in the game and were very competitive. Iím not Wesleyís biggest fan but I thought he did well tonight. Connor was our only obvious weak point.
Play like that and weíll be fine!
And sitting amongst the Tarquins I was very proud of our support tonight. Well done all 👍👍👏👏👏
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 04, 2019, 11:24:56 PM
Best Villa performance Iíve seen this season and Iíve seen us beat Everton and Newcastle. Chelsea were very good tonight. Tammy and Kante make a huge difference for them and they played some fantastic football.
Somehow we stayed in the game and were very competitive. Iím not Wesleyís biggest fan but I thought he did well tonight. Connor was our only obvious weak point.
Play like that and weíll be fine!
And sitting amongst the Tarquins I was very proud of our support tonight. Well done all 👍👍👏👏👏

Good Christ.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2019, 11:26:35 PM
Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: GXVilla on December 04, 2019, 11:32:38 PM
Newcastle and Everton had absolutely nothing to offer offensively whereas Chelsea were really dangerous. Competing with them tonight shows how far weíve come. Room for improvement still but weíre on the right track .
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on December 04, 2019, 11:35:46 PM
Think Dean Smith and the coaching staff got it wrong tonight.  We were far too open in midfield at times tonight and in games like that away from home, we need to go with Luiz and Nakamba.  Hourihane is far too lightweight to compete against those type of sides and they just strolled past him at will.

We may be able to play with just the one holding midfielder against the poorer sides in the league, but we need to be a lot stronger in there when we come up against the better sides.

Luiz was woeful away at Wolves next to Nakamba, they both were really. His effort to stop Traore for the winning Wolves goal was as bad if not worse than anything Hourihane did tonight. Don't think Luiz can have any complaints about being dropped. Much better performance tonight when he came in but a long way to go before he is a nailed on starter for me.

Irrespective of who we have in midfield, we are very easy to play against. That's a big problem and a real lack of pace all over the pitch. Only AEG and Mings stand out as genuinely quick. Targett and Hourihane are snail like when turned. Tonight our press was severely limited as Trez and Wes are one paced.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Damo70 on December 04, 2019, 11:39:19 PM
I think at the very least we certainly continued to show we won't be whipping boys at this level.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 04, 2019, 11:51:23 PM
I think at the very least we certainly continued to show we won't be whipping boys at this level.

The -2 GD after nearly half a season certainly indicates that.

Will be a nice little buffer for us in the closing weeks.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: olaftab on December 04, 2019, 11:55:52 PM
Until he popped up with the equaliser I genuinely didn't know Trez was playing.

He touched the ball three times before then.
He scored with his 4th touch. Not bad.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 04, 2019, 11:56:27 PM
Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans.

With a strong supporting role from the donkey
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: olaftab on December 05, 2019, 12:00:32 AM
Mahmoud Hasan is unlucky. He scores we lose so we must stop him from scoring😆
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Goldie.7 on December 05, 2019, 12:03:39 AM
Iím not Wesleyís biggest fan but I thought he did well tonight.

This is why I'm highly dubious of new posters.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 05, 2019, 12:04:43 AM
Hause deserves a chance at Left back. He was excellent there last season. He would also add height and strength at the back. He was MOTM against Wolves in the Carabao Cup.

He was back in the squad for the last couple of games, but was dropped for Taylor on the bench tonight.

I've said it before but Taylor should be playing the away games and Targett the home games. Targett can't defend, Taylor can't attack. I know who would have been the better player tonight. As for Hause, I like him, he looked like he could do both but that was in the Championship. Physically, he's got it, Chelsea pushed us off the ball every time but it's so long since I've seen him play there, I can't remember if he'd be able to step up.

In the summer a new left back should be on our shopping list.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: tomd2103 on December 05, 2019, 12:19:20 AM
Think Dean Smith and the coaching staff got it wrong tonight.  We were far too open in midfield at times tonight and in games like that away from home, we need to go with Luiz and Nakamba.  Hourihane is far too lightweight to compete against those type of sides and they just strolled past him at will.

We may be able to play with just the one holding midfielder against the poorer sides in the league, but we need to be a lot stronger in there when we come up against the better sides.

Luiz was woeful away at Wolves next to Nakamba, they both were really. His effort to stop Traore for the winning Wolves goal was as bad if not worse than anything Hourihane did tonight. Don't think Luiz can have any complaints about being dropped. Much better performance tonight when he came in but a long way to go before he is a nailed on starter for me.

Irrespective of who we have in midfield, we are very easy to play against. That's a big problem and a real lack of pace all over the pitch. Only AEG and Mings stand out as genuinely quick. Targett and Hourihane are snail like when turned. Tonight our press was severely limited as Trez and Wes are one paced.

Agree to some extent, but I just think we would be more solid with those two in there (could even try Konsa in there and bring Engels back in).  As I said, not for every game, but I would be in favour of going that way in games like tonight.

It is a bit down the list of priorities come January, but a quality mobile, combative midfielder to go in there alongside Marvellous or Douglas could be a shrewd signing.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Vill I An on December 05, 2019, 12:25:29 AM
Whoscored.com ratings

Heaton 7.74
El Mohamady 7.34
Konsa 6.84
Mings 6.34
Targett 6.46
McGinn 7.14
Nakamba 6.89
Hourihane 5.97
Trťzťguet 7.75
Wesley 6.70
Grealish 7.05
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: olaftab on December 05, 2019, 12:31:43 AM
Vill I An do you work as a FOREX trader during the day?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithe on December 05, 2019, 12:42:26 AM
Thought the score line flattered us a little, they were so much sharper, quicker and organised when pressing. They were great at passing and creating opportunities between our lines

Lots of Championship players from last year in their team, hope we can match them soon but that time wasnít tonight.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Vill I An on December 05, 2019, 12:43:16 AM
Mahmoud Hasan is unlucky. He scores we lose so we must stop him from scoring😆
Best outfield villa player tonight
Attacking wise always offers a potential threat

9 starts 3 goals.
Come season end everyone here will be raving about him.
I already recognise his ability .
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Vill I An on December 05, 2019, 12:45:04 AM
Great level of respect by Tammy Abraham and unfortunately I don't feel villa deserves much from that game.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: robbo1874 on December 05, 2019, 03:28:33 AM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
   At last some sense about Wesley - Messi could do no more with high balls up to him with no  support and surrounded by 3 defenders. All the Wesley haters just stop making him a scapegoat..Mings and Mcginn both need dropping and is Targett really any better than Taylior?




Don't agree on Wesley. I donít expect him to do miracles but I do expect him to hold the ball up occasionally and take a bit of pressure of us as surely thatís why heís there. Does he look a goal threat, no and McGinn needs dropping eh 🙄

Mate, seriously, if you have ever played centre forward and all you get is the ball whacked up to you, high in the air and you are on your own, I defy anyone to do any better.  Yes, I want him to push people over and compete, show more bollocks, but the way we play, does him no favours either.  He does need more physicality but he is NOT totally at fault.


But we don't just whack the ball up to him. Okay tonight we were limited but we haven't played like that every game.
the thing that pissed me off about us the most tonight, is that we really had to fight and compete for the ball and we did that, but on the times where we did win it and get forward in to good positions, it would either be a shit or wrong final ball in, or the forwards were making the wrong runs. The one time we got it right, we scored.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:06:35 AM
Mahmoud Hasan is unlucky. He scores we lose so we must stop him from scoring😆
Best outfield villa player tonight
Attacking wise always offers a potential threat

9 starts 3 goals.
Come season end everyone here will be raving about him.
I already recognise his ability .
Pleased for you
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: JJ-AV on December 05, 2019, 05:43:46 AM
Wes needs some time out of the team. Weíve got so many games coming up and he hasnít put Kodjia on, itís an odd one. I know Kodjia probably isnít the answer but youíd think heíd be using him as a sub, particularly when Wes is not playing well.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: ROBBO on December 05, 2019, 06:57:31 AM
Chelsea were faster stronger and in control for most of the game, if nothing else it showed that we need to strengthen in January as we may be competitive with those who themselves are facing relegation but are a long way off having the quality to match it with the better squads.
Grealish was well held for most of the game and when he isn't dominant we struggle, the defence were given the run around and we were lucky not to concede more. A key positive for me was we have got ourselves a pretty good goalkeeper.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: sid1964 on December 05, 2019, 07:04:38 AM
2nd half Chelsea were far better than us (it does seem to be re-occurring theme regarding 2nd half performances)

They stopped Grealish playing, which meant that we lost most of our creativity.

Pulisic ran Elmo ragged, and Chelsea's midfield and their passing and movement was too good for us, and if was not for Heaton (my man of the match) it could have 4 or 5 - 1

Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 05, 2019, 07:43:56 AM
Didn't expect much from this game, yet chelski didn't kill us off by adding to their 2 goals, so we remained in the game till the end. Swap Tammy for Wes in this game and maybe we could have been the victors. For me Engels needs to return Sunday, as does Guilbert (no offence to Elmo or Konsa).
At best Luiz and Trez are impact subs only.
Reading some of the comments on here, it seems some posters can't wait to have a pop at their favourite scapegoat. As for the comment and endorsements that we should have made a substitution at half time after probably our best spell in the game, and 4+ minutes after scoring and getting back into it...really?
This game won't define our season, onwards to Sunday and the upcoming run of games against lowly teams. UTV!
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Walmley_Villa on December 05, 2019, 07:53:27 AM
The fact we are still in games that we are either drawing or losing is the reason Kodja doesn't come on. He is too indisciplined.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Allan C on December 05, 2019, 07:58:43 AM
Didn't expect much from this game, yet chelski didn't kill us off by adding to their 2 goals, so we remained in the game till the end. Swap Tammy for Wes in this game and maybe we could have been the victors. For me Engels needs to return Sunday, as does Guilbert (no offence to Elmo or Konsa).
At best Luiz and Trez are impact subs only.
Reading some of the comments on here, it seems some posters can't wait to have a pop at their favourite scapegoat. As for the comment and endorsements that we should have made a substitution at half time after probably our best spell in the game, and 4+ minutes after scoring and getting back into it...really?
This game won't define our season, onwards to Sunday and the upcoming run of games against lowly teams. UTV!
Pretty much my thoughts too. Yes we were poor but not as poor as some are making out. This Chelsea team will be knocking on the Champions League door this season but then theyíve had years of preparing for it or actually doing it. We havnt for years but I think weíre going in the right direction
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: ldavfc4eva on December 05, 2019, 07:59:25 AM
Thought Konsa and Mings were not up to standard, Heaton did well and came and caught the ball from crosses and corners, he also gathered a tricky deflected ball in to the box.

Trez was good in spells, same as SJM. Jack comfortable but no real out ball for him so lost possession a couple of times. Wes is too isolated on his own and needs a player up with him I think before we will ever see what he is capable of.

Luiz did well when he came on, Hourihane was never involved, doesnít put a tackle in and wonít get close enough to the opposition as a central midfielder.

Wing backs were poor apart from the ball in from AEH for the goal.

Engels needs to come back in with Mings for the next one as we are more solid and Tyrone looks less error prone with him next to him.

Thought Nakamba ran all day and put a decent shift in.

As for Deano, good sub Luiz for Hourihane but could have put Kodjia on and gone 4-4-2 for the last 15/20 mins.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: eamonn on December 05, 2019, 08:29:18 AM
Didn't expect much from this game, yet chelski didn't kill us off by adding to their 2 goals, so we remained in the game till the end. Swap Tammy for Wes in this game and maybe we could have been the victors. For me Engels needs to return Sunday, as does Guilbert (no offence to Elmo or Konsa).
At best Luiz and Trez are impact subs only.
Reading some of the comments on here, it seems some posters can't wait to have a pop at their favourite scapegoat. As for the comment and endorsements that we should have made a substitution at half time after probably our best spell in the game, and 4+ minutes after scoring and getting back into it...really?
This game won't define our season, onwards to Sunday and the upcoming run of games against lowly teams. UTV!

I know you're a big fan of Conor but are you really suggesting we looked better with him than Luiz?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: eamonn on December 05, 2019, 08:35:48 AM
Their squad worth about four times ours.

Their trophy count significantly higher.

They've been in the top reaches of the league for years and won the Champions League only We've just been promoted having been in the championship and before that having circled the Premier League plughole for half a decade.

They won the league as recently as 2017 and the Europa League last season.

It's the reality, we're going to have bad days, and this is precisely the sort of team it's likely to happen against.

I was flat watching it, as it didn't look like we'd get anything from the game. However xwe hung in there and didn't get hammered (score wise).

Onwards.

Chris Wilder doesn't give a shit about any of that and goes there with a more limited team than ours and battles for a well-earned point. Aren't you a Sheff lad now, Drummond? Learn from that grit in them parts.
Also, as has been pointed out, Chelsea's goalscorers were both playing in the same division as us last season. I would have expected us to be more competitive last night.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on December 05, 2019, 08:45:09 AM
There was only one decent team on that pitch. We came to play




Not sure about that

The first part is an exaggeration, sure. Particularly when you remove the rest of the original post which offers my reasons for saying this.

But the second part stands. We came to play. They were cynical and full of niggle.

Have no idea how you can come to that conclusion. They had 66% possession and 17 shots, 11 on target. We were crap and totally outplayed.

Outplayed - ok. We werenít crap though. When we tried to play it so often resulted in a foul on John or Jack.

You like stats I think, so here is one for you. They committed 18 fouls compared to our 10. They fouled us nearly twice as much as we fouled them even though they had more of the ball and that is with some pretty dubious refereeing. 

Letís keep it in perspective this team is growing together. Chelsea have been established and spending big in the top flight for a long time.

The game I watched there was a fair amount of spirit, some skill and a bit of naivety. Some very good players and some that will play less as we develop.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: eamonn on December 05, 2019, 08:52:27 AM
Until he popped up with the equaliser I genuinely didn't know Trez was playing.

yeah, he was utterly hopeless until then. put in a decent enough shift after then though.

strange player isnt he? one paced, one footed, predictable in his play

yet has scored in his last three starts, and unlucky not to get one at Old Trafford

The first Villa player to do that since....






Tom Claverley apparently!  (May 2015)
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 05, 2019, 09:01:02 AM
eamonn, you must have read a different post to mine. I didn't mention Conor once.
On the subject of Luiz (who I did mention) I'm not convinced yet.
He seems a better player when coming off the bench, like last night and vs Norwich. Probably like a few of our players (eg Trez who still has to convince me he's a winger)  he needs to grow into the premier league.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: The Edge on December 05, 2019, 09:01:25 AM
Only just reading back this forum from last night. Some of the early reactions are fkn ridiciculous. Dean Smith and the crew don't know what they're doing etc etc. Ffs guys give it rest will you. Think where we were a little over one year ago. The best we could of hoped for at that point was to survive as a club and hopefully still be plying our trade in the championship. Now some people are slagging off our 20 million pound striker and pointing the finger at the management and the rest of the 130 million quids worth of players we've acquired. We are still on target for survival in the premier league which was the only thing any sensible Villa fan was hoping for.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: simon ward 50 on December 05, 2019, 09:26:39 AM
Seemed like the draw at OT took it out of some of the players. Most were only 6/10 ratings or lower last night and that will happen unfortunately in some games this season. Having said that the defending for Tammy's goal was exceptionally poor and the failure to stop crosses into the box would be a worry no matter how well or badly we play!

Oh and Wesley, put yourself about mate!
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Nelly on December 05, 2019, 09:33:31 AM
I thought Chelsea were one of the best teams we have played this season. Some of their play in the second half was just beyond us. We did well to keep them out in that fifteen minute period in the second half. Luiz coming on really helped to steady us.

Wesley - how many chances did we create for him? I don't remember him having a single decent opportunity - All we did was hump it long to him and expect some magic. He has scored from cut backs and through balls this season. Before we destroy the lad we ought to consider the service he gets.

Targett was our poorest player last night for me, but Konsa and Mings were suspect at times again too. Abraham's goal was so easy for him because someone had moved up, forcing Mings out, which left Konsa out of position and Abraham free. It's a lapse on our behalf.

We weren't shit by any stretch, but Chelsea were just much better and on their game.

Heaton was fantastic, at least two excellent saves. I thought Luiz and Nakamba both did well too.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 05, 2019, 09:34:03 AM
We were second best for most of the game.

Some poor defensive concentration and several players below par. I thought Heaton, Nakamba, Elmo and Luiz were all decent and Jack did well in patches.

From the away end you could see that we were defending narrowly as we often do, and Chelsea were keeping William (who was the best player on the pitch for me) and on the other flank Pulisic (I think) very wide, so they had easy wide balls as an option. We don't close these down quickly enough and both goals came from not stopping crosses. The way we defend we seem to depend on our wide midfielders / forwards to stop crosses rather than the defenders.

When we tried to play wide ourselves I thought Chelsea were very tight on us and didn't allow us space to attack them.

We stayed in the game, more due to Chelsea's profligacy than anything, but didn't really deserve a point. I think we need more pace in the team as an outlet when under pressure and we also have a soft underbelly so more physicality would help too.

Our away support was very good last night, though you could just about hear them in the second half. Chelsea was the quietest I have ever heard them at home, though I hadn't been there since the 2011 NYE win. Maybe we weren't enough to get them excited about?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: mallo on December 05, 2019, 09:36:24 AM
We desperately need real options up front - we don't have a realistic alternative to Wes and if he's having a mare we can't do anything. Roll on Jan. Bad day at the office - suspect Leicester might take their chances.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: dorsetvillian on December 05, 2019, 09:43:21 AM
Did well in spells and stayed in the game. Chelsea were the best passing team I've seen. Needed Connor off earlier as he just didn't  have the mobility that Luis has. I thought Wes worked hard but couldn't help but imagine the difference Tammy would make in our team. A striker in Jan is a no brainer.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: sid1964 on December 05, 2019, 09:59:10 AM
If we don't create chances then we could have Andy Gray and Peter Withe up front and we still would not score many

Last night apart from the Grealish air kick our goal and Luiz header for me where our only real efforts.

I don't remember any other chance we created where we should have definitely scored?
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 05, 2019, 10:05:32 AM
On the bright side, the build up to our goal featured some lovely football.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Bren'd on December 05, 2019, 10:12:17 AM
We were second best for most of the game.

Some poor defensive concentration and several players below par. I thought Heaton, Nakamba, Elmo and Luiz were all decent and Jack did well in patches.

From the away end you could see that we were defending narrowly as we often do, and Chelsea were keeping William (who was the best player on the pitch for me) and on the other flank Pulisic (I think) very wide, so they had easy wide balls as an option. We don't close these down quickly enough and both goals came from not stopping crosses. The way we defend we seem to depend on our wide midfielders / forwards to stop crosses rather than the defenders.

When we tried to play wide ourselves I thought Chelsea were very tight on us and didn't allow us space to attack them.

We stayed in the game, more due to Chelsea's profligacy than anything, but didn't really deserve a point. I think we need more pace in the team as an outlet when under pressure and we also have a soft underbelly so more physicality would help too.


Well, at least me and you watched the same game as that's exactly as I seen it from the TV.

2-1 flattered us.  We couldn't have complained if it was 4 or 5 in all honesty. 
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: brontebilly on December 05, 2019, 10:15:07 AM
The fact we are still in games that we are either drawing or losing is the reason Kodja doesn't come on. He is too indisciplined.

I'd like to think if Davis were fit, he would at least be coming on if not challenging for a place. Smith clearly has no faith in JK.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: danno on December 05, 2019, 10:24:00 AM
Assuming it's still 36,points or above to stay up, I'm not worried in the slightest.

Not sure why I posted this here! (Face palm)
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Villa Lew on December 05, 2019, 10:26:35 AM
The good news was we weren't hammered, the scoreline looks respectful, even though the performance clearly wasn't. I think our present league position is as much down to the recent below par performances of John McGinn than any other factor, when on his day he's one of the best players in the Premier league, outside of the top 4 teams in the league. The man's a match winner and I believe he will soon find his top form, when I reckon we can be looking at a mid table position and no relegation concerns.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Dr Butler on December 05, 2019, 10:32:24 AM
was that our worst performance of this season ?  I can't make my mind up between this game and the Wolves match...


anyway on to Leicester Sunday

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: placeforparks on December 05, 2019, 10:34:16 AM
It was painfull seeing Tammy in a Chelsea shirt tonight when we desperately need him. We were second best but with a bit of presence up front we could have nicked something.
He was always going to score against us wasn't he?  :'(
What sort of reception did he get from the Villa fans who were there?

very warm. his movement and tracking back is much missed!
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: LeeB on December 05, 2019, 11:19:30 AM
They were (are) better than us, and we lack options when we're playing big games so close together.
However, we did hang in there and defending well under big pressure at times. Hourihane is a passenger in these sort of games, he hasn't got the legs to get close enough to the opposition when they have the ball, and we looked better when he went off.
Thought Elmo was our best player last night, his defending of the back post was absolutely textbook, his positioning saved at least two goals and his cross for the goal was majestic.

We'll be fine though, and Chelsea were very good.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: darren woolley on December 05, 2019, 11:20:39 AM
Disappointed with losing hopefully we can put that right on Sunday against Leicester like Pat McMahon said our away support was the best again I bloody love the Villa.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: john e on December 05, 2019, 11:39:57 AM
thought we hung in there and looked dangerous at times but the final ball was rubbish all night ( Elmoís aside)
overhit to many times straight into the goalies arms

I still think a Grealish is wasted when he plays on the left wing heís got more to offer in central mid

Heaton, McGinn, Grealish, Marvo were are best performers and Luiz when he came on
the rest had poorish games really

Wesley does some good things but isnít a goal danger did he even have one chance

Conor is great when we are on top heíll chip in with a goal/assist when we are running the game ie Norwich, Man Utd, Newcastle
when the going gets tougher heís not the man

one last thing
Canít make my mind up which is the most soulless passionless ground to watch football in between
Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs been to them all, three of them this season and every time I come away thinking thank fuck we are not them



Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Drummond on December 05, 2019, 12:11:42 PM
Their squad worth about four times ours.

Their trophy count significantly higher.

They've been in the top reaches of the league for years and won the Champions League only We've just been promoted having been in the championship and before that having circled the Premier League plughole for half a decade.

They won the league as recently as 2017 and the Europa League last season.

It's the reality, we're going to have bad days, and this is precisely the sort of team it's likely to happen against.

I was flat watching it, as it didn't look like we'd get anything from the game. However xwe hung in there and didn't get hammered (score wise).

Onwards.

Chris Wilder doesn't give a shit about any of that and goes there with a more limited team than ours and battles for a well-earned point. Aren't you a Sheff lad now, Drummond? Learn from that grit in them parts.
Also, as has been pointed out, Chelsea's goalscorers were both playing in the same division as us last season. I would have expected us to be more competitive last night.

Yes, their striker played for us and was the first player to score more than 20 in a season since Withe.
Mount has been called up for England, perhaps the goals are why he's getting picked and Grealish isn't.

Sheffield United clearly play a different type of game to ours. I do think however, that next Saturday will be a good test of how both clubs are doing. I'm hoping we royally fuck them over to be fair.

I think your expectation has been built as a result of the start we've made and how well we've done in games such as Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs. City fucked us over and now Chelsea have. But we've played most of them away now, bring it on at Villa Park.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Mister E on December 05, 2019, 12:13:17 PM
Newly promoted side against a well stacked outfit.  We bring on Jota, they bring on Jorginho.  That said, I thought we were our own worst enemy. Terrible defending for the goals.  Mings and Konsa had a night off, timid all over the pitch, stood off in midfield.  We don't quite have enough class yet to compete with these sides.  Wesley?  I'm not sure what people are expecting when there are two players on him and no Villa player around him?  No-one else was any better, or worse than him. They won all the second balls and we looked tired and punchless.  2-1 flatters us. Poor performance and now only 1 point outside the bottom 3.
This sums it up for me. Thank you.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Mister E on December 05, 2019, 12:14:52 PM

Agree to some extent, but I just think we would be more solid with those two in there (could even try Konsa in there and bring Engels back in).  As I said, not for every game, but I would be in favour of going that way in games like tonight.
It is a bit down the list of priorities come January, but a quality mobile, combative midfielder to go in there alongside Marvellous or Douglas could be a shrewd signing.
Indeed. Good ideas.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: supertom on December 05, 2019, 12:31:39 PM
The score probably flatters us a bit, and the fact we almost equalised near the end probably says a lot about where Chelsea as a side. To be fair to them, they are in a transition but they'll need another season or two with this group to compete for the title (barring a big window when their ban finishes).

Heaton was excellent I thought. Luiz was decent when he came on. Marvellous played well. Elmo was good, and Trezeguet is finally looking a player.

For me, this was a harsh lesson for Konsa. Playing quality attacking opposition, he got a schooling on concentration and positioning. He was ropey and nervy all game. I think this was a game for Engels, who apart from anything is a bit more aggressive and could have given Tammy more attention.
I love Mings. He has 'moments' in every game. It's easy to forget he's still relatively young, and in footbaling minutes, even more so (particularly at this level). Things he got away with at Championship, he's getting punished for now. Last night Chelsea didn't capatalise on a few of his ricks, but other sides will. Would I drop him? No chance, because he's so influential. Much like Dunne, who always had a mare moment in him (not so many as Tyrone, but he was 30 odd and clocked up a lot of games), I think we'd look worse off with him out the side. I remember when Dunne was having a poor run under Houllier wanting him out the side. We looked shitter without him.

Wesley...oh Wesley. 3-4 games aside (2 excellent games and a couple looking okay) he's just been poor. I get that he's a bit isolated and the service isn't always great, but he's not switched on. Lone striker is a difficult position but it's the predominent striker role these days. No one plays two up. Not so many play one dropped off. If you can't play that role when you're 6ft10 of muscle in 2019, then you're in the wrong game altogether. There could be a player there, but honestly, we're damaging by playing him over and over. As others have said, could Kodjia be any worse? Otherwise Dean has to re-adjust things and alter the system. If Davis was fit I think he'd be playing. In 3 weeks we've got to be ready to pull in a forward, because Wesley's going one way, and that's Balaban central.

The biggest thing for me with Wesley is that he doesn't make anything look easy. It might be confidence, or the divisional step up, but everything looks hard. Controlling a ball, heading a ball, making a 5 yard pass. I'm shocked he's a Brazilian international. Even Heskey, for all his faults could have games when he'd make the hold up play look easy. Granted you'd get no goals out of him but (under Houllier at least) he was quite effective in allowing Downing and Young opportunities to make up the goal return. It's like playing with 10 men. At this point I'd rather stick AEG or Trezeguet up as a false 9 and have them run around a bit, offer some energy, because if we're doing one thing reasonably well, it's getting our attacking mids in space in the box. Almost every cross that comes in ends up going to a midfielder, because Wesley seems to be persistently out of the 'action' spots. We need George Weah up front, not George Weah's cousin.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 05, 2019, 01:26:32 PM
If we can get 6 or preferably 7 points from the next 5 weíll be looking ok, especially as I think a lot of the players will have better 2nd half of the season and weíll probably sign a couple of good new attacking options in January. Leicester, Norwich and Southampton at Home, Sheff Utd and Watford away. 2 wins and a draw, I would have thought so.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: SW9-VILLA on December 05, 2019, 01:36:16 PM
Not the worst result but a poor performance overall and yet we showed glimspes of decent play.

This

Ummm. Never looked like scoring again though. Kepa had nothing to do. i think you're being kind

How wesley gets 90 mins every week I dont know. He may come good, but as sit stands he doesnt deserve the shirt

Not sure what game you were watching. We had at two decent chances. Agreed on Wesley though, had a stinker yesterday.

Thought Heaton was fantastic yesterday. Great reception for Tammy from our fans as well. Don't know why we didn't bring Kopdjia on when Wes was clearly having a bad night. Would kill for someone like Danny Ings at the moment.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Nelson Lodge on December 05, 2019, 02:38:42 PM
At least Villa are consistent when playing London clubs away..... even if it is coming back home with consistently shit results.
Four league games in London so far this season and all four lost!
As for Chelsea specifically. Looking at 11v11 from and including 2010 to date we've played them 16 times in all competitions. Lost 12, won 2 and drawn 2.
Quite depressing.

I am developing a phobia about Villa games at London club grounds, even if the club and players have not.....yet.
When did Villa last come back from any Premier League game at a London club ground with a draw yet alone a win?
Not expecting any better in the Cup at Fulham on this form.

Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 05, 2019, 03:02:49 PM
At least Villa are consistent when playing London clubs away..... even if it is coming back home with consistently shit results.
Four league games in London so far this season and all four lost!
As for Chelsea specifically. Looking at 11v11 from and including 2010 to date we've played them 16 times in all competitions. Lost 12, won 2 and drawn 2.
Quite depressing.

I am developing a phobia about Villa games at London club grounds, even if the club and players have not.....yet.
When did Villa last come back from any Premier League game at a London club ground with a draw yet alone a win?
Not expecting any better in the Cup at Fulham on this form.



I go to the London games more than ones at VP. I can confirm that we always lose. I'm struggling to think of the last away win I saw. There was one at QPR a couple or three years ago where we came from behind but I left that one just after kick-off due to being surrounded by bellends.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 05, 2019, 03:08:12 PM
Spurs away under Sherwood in the top flight.

Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 05, 2019, 03:14:45 PM
True, but Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea away are not exactly games a newly promoted side are going to get much from normally. Palace away we could have got a point if it wasn't for fecking VAR.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 05, 2019, 04:12:46 PM
DS interview https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1202364749721296896
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 05, 2019, 06:41:06 PM
True, but Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea away are not exactly games a newly promoted side are going to get much from normally. Palace away we could have got a point if it wasn't for fecking VAR.

It was Kevin Friend, not VAR
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: olaftab on December 05, 2019, 06:51:02 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/pwyGySK/84-E36640-3-BA2-4-A0-C-A7-F9-D4384820793-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pwyGySK)
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 05, 2019, 06:53:05 PM
[
when the going gets tougher heís not the man quote author=john e link=topic=60376.msg3679555#msg3679555 date=1575545997]


Canít make my mind up which is the most soulless passionless ground to watch football in between
Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs been to them all, three of them this season and every time I come away thinking thank fuck we are not them

[/quote]

My Bulgarian colleague has mates from home who try to bag tickets for London games and two of them were in the East stand last night (the 3 tier one to our right).

He relayed to me that they were very impressed with our support and could not believe how quiet Chelsea fans were. But most weirdly of all in that stand they have heaters hanging from the gantry, like the ones you see outside some restaurants. Can't say I have ever seen that before. Have sent the photo to Aftab who will hopefully post the photo here.

A lot of London fans I have met over the years are the same as us - normal people with a limit to their budget. They have been priced out of football. A mate of Kingthing last night was telling me he pays £750 for his season ticket at Chelsea but could pay more than twice that at Arsenal. A lot of daytrippers get tickets from people who buy season tickets and release them on a match by match basis. The number of sellers of half and half scarves was ridiculous, too.

Success comes with consequences.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: SW9-VILLA on December 05, 2019, 07:32:41 PM
[
when the going gets tougher heís not the man quote author=john e link=topic=60376.msg3679555#msg3679555 date=1575545997]


Canít make my mind up which is the most soulless passionless ground to watch football in between
Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs been to them all, three of them this season and every time I come away thinking thank fuck we are not them


My Bulgarian colleague has mates from home who try to bag tickets for London games and two of them were in the East stand last night (the 3 tier one to our right).

He relayed to me that they were very impressed with our support and could not believe how quiet Chelsea fans were. But most weirdly of all in that stand they have heaters hanging from the gantry, like the ones you see outside some restaurants. Can't say I have ever seen that before. Have sent the photo to Aftab who will hopefully post the photo here.

A lot of London fans I have met over the years are the same as us - normal people with a limit to their budget. They have been priced out of football. A mate of Kingthing last night was telling me he pays £750 for his season ticket at Chelsea but could pay more than twice that at Arsenal. A lot of daytrippers get tickets from people who buy season tickets and release them on a match by match basis. The number of sellers of half and half scarves was ridiculous, too.

Success comes with consequences.
[/quote]

Ground has the feel of a shopping mall from the outside as well. The atmosphere was dead in there, didn't hear one song until after they scored their second.
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 05, 2019, 07:36:14 PM
[
when the going gets tougher heís not the man quote author=john e link=topic=60376.msg3679555#msg3679555 date=1575545997]


Canít make my mind up which is the most soulless passionless ground to watch football in between
Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs been to them all, three of them this season and every time I come away thinking thank fuck we are not them


My Bulgarian colleague has mates from home who try to bag tickets for London games and two of them were in the East stand last night (the 3 tier one to our right).

He relayed to me that they were very impressed with our support and could not believe how quiet Chelsea fans were. But most weirdly of all in that stand they have heaters hanging from the gantry, like the ones you see outside some restaurants. Can't say I have ever seen that before. Have sent the photo to Aftab who will hopefully post the photo here.

A lot of London fans I have met over the years are the same as us - normal people with a limit to their budget. They have been priced out of football. A mate of Kingthing last night was telling me he pays £750 for his season ticket at Chelsea but could pay more than twice that at Arsenal. A lot of daytrippers get tickets from people who buy season tickets and release them on a match by match basis. The number of sellers of half and half scarves was ridiculous, too.

Success comes with consequences.

Ground has the feel of a shopping mall from the outside as well. The atmosphere was dead in there, didn't hear one song until after they scored their second.
[/quote]

I had a look at the screen the first I heard them and it was 23rd minute
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: The Edge on December 05, 2019, 10:38:25 PM
[
when the going gets tougher heís not the man quote author=john e link=topic=60376.msg3679555#msg3679555 date=1575545997]


Canít make my mind up which is the most soulless passionless ground to watch football in between
Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs been to them all, three of them this season and every time I come away thinking thank fuck we are not them


My Bulgarian colleague has mates from home who try to bag tickets for London games and two of them were in the East stand last night (the 3 tier one to our right).

He relayed to me that they were very impressed with our support and could not believe how quiet Chelsea fans were. But most weirdly of all in that stand they have heaters hanging from the gantry, like the ones you see outside some restaurants. Can't say I have ever seen that before. Have sent the photo to Aftab who will hopefully post the photo here.

A lot of London fans I have met over the years are the same as us - normal people with a limit to their budget. They have been priced out of football. A mate of Kingthing last night was telling me he pays £750 for his season ticket at Chelsea but could pay more than twice that at Arsenal. A lot of daytrippers get tickets from people who buy season tickets and release them on a match by match basis. The number of sellers of half and half scarves was ridiculous, too.

Success comes with consequences.
[/quote]
I've always thought some kind of heating on the concourses for a half time defrost would be great on the coldest of winter days and would encourage more sales of alcohol!! 
#gettingold
Title: Re: Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa post match thread
Post by: postal on December 06, 2019, 02:48:44 PM
The score probably flatters us a bit, and the fact we almost equalised near the end probably says a lot about where Chelsea as a side. To be fair to them, they are in a transition but they'll need another season or two with this group to compete for the title (barring a big window when their ban finishes).

Heaton was excellent I thought. Luiz was decent when he came on. Marvellous played well. Elmo was good, and Trezeguet is finally looking a player.

For me, this was a harsh lesson for Konsa. Playing quality attacking opposition, he got a schooling on concentration and positioning. He was ropey and nervy all game. I think this was a game for Engels, who apart from anything is a bit more aggressive and could have given Tammy more attention.
I love Mings. He has 'moments' in every game. It's easy to forget he's still relatively young, and in footbaling minutes, even more so (particularly at this level). Things he got away with at Championship, he's getting punished for now. Last night Chelsea didn't capatalise on a few of his ricks, but other sides will. Would I drop him? No chance, because he's so influential. Much like Dunne, who always had a mare moment in him (not so many as Tyrone, but he was 30 odd and clocked up a lot of games), I think we'd look worse off with him out the side. I remember when Dunne was having a poor run under Houllier wanting him out the side. We looked shitter without him.

Wesley...oh Wesley. 3-4 games aside (2 excellent games and a couple looking okay) he's just been poor. I get that he's a bit isolated and the service isn't always great, but he's not switched on. Lone striker is a difficult position but it's the predominent striker role these days. No one plays two up. Not so many play one dropped off. If you can't play that role when you're 6ft10 of muscle in 2019, then you're in the wrong game altogether. There could be a player there, but honestly, we're damaging by playing him over and over. As others have said, could Kodjia be any worse? Otherwise Dean has to re-adjust things and alter the system. If Davis was fit I think he'd be playing. In 3 weeks we've got to be ready to pull in a forward, because Wesley's going one way, and that's Balaban central.

The biggest thing for me with Wesley is that he doesn't make anything look easy. It might be confidence, or the divisional step up, but everything looks hard. Controlling a ball, heading a ball, making a 5 yard pass. I'm shocked he's a Brazilian international. Even Heskey, for all his faults could have games when he'd make the hold up play look easy. Granted you'd get no goals out of him but (under Houllier at least) he was quite effective in allowing Downing and Young opportunities to make up the goal return. It's like playing with 10 men. At this point I'd rather stick AEG or Trezeguet up as a false 9 and have them run around a bit, offer some energy, because if we're doing one thing reasonably well, it's getting our attacking mids in space in the box. Almost every cross that comes in ends up going to a midfielder, because Wesley seems to be persistently out of the 'action' spots. We need George Weah up front, not George Weah's cousin.

Completely agree.
Wesley needs a rest ( and I dont mean that in a nasty way, lone striker will be tiring physically & mentally after all these games) and if they do that "false 9" you suggest, you can have the wingers rotating from winger / forward during the game, and have some energy. And AEG & Trezeguet have shots on them, which is always good.

And then maybe bring Wesley on for the last 10 or so to see a game out, holding the ball up.

Something has to change.
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