Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on September 28, 2019, 04:56:40 PM
-
sigh.
-
We'll piss the Championship.
-
Shoddy.
-
It’s not looking good is it.
-
2-2.
Not enough.
Were 13th winning in the table, back to 18th.
Like 15/16 we seem to be using up lots of winnable home games already.
Guess this is going to be new "we go again" but we need to wise up and quick as points are slipping through our grasp. Really naive in our play at times and also from the manager.
-
Jay Rodriguez is a ******.
Burnley are a horrid team to watch.
We are just lacking something.
-
On pace to finish with 27 points.
This group ain’t got the bottle.
Can we buy Darren Bent in January again?
-
Best first half performance of the season.
Usual second half dross.
-
We've led twice in both the last 2 league games and got 1 point.
-
Very frustrating.
Not pick at a usual scapegoat but CH bottled a 50/50 leading to their 2nd goal.
-
Less of the face holding, running after referees with imaginary cards and more focus on the actual game would really help.
Lead the game twice and still don't win, again. Sigh.
-
From position of strength we fall away. This is a concern and I can see the owners getting twitchy.
-
What can you say, it was like watching a pan of boiled potatoes cooking, bring to boil and simmer for 45 minutes or until you get a sludgy mess.
-
Brainless make it hard for yourselves football at its absolute worst. We’re going down unless something major changes.
-
So frustrating. DS needs to be proactive much earlier in the second half. We always allow teams to get back in to games we've been dominating.
-
2 fine goals lost in 97 minutes of mediocrity. Deeply unimpressive. And Dean's got to start getting harsh with Wes who was a passenger today.
We'd be all at sea without SJM.
-
We just are not learning at all.
To give away a goal as easy as that just after you've scored is so so poor.
We played well 1st half, but we allowed ourselves to be dragged into a fucking horrible game of football in the 2nd.
That's 2 points from 3 games where we should have won at least 2, probably all 3.
-
Point doesnt really do us any favours. Can't see us winning many but if we can hold in there till January a new striker could really give us a boost. Saying that our defence not as strong as we thought....
-
the team was more frustating than my bloody stream
-
That is another poor result. We will go down if we don’t stop fading badly in games.
Sort it out Dean.
-
From position of strength we fall away. This is a concern and I can see the owners getting twitchy.
I agree. Deans not going to last long with our recent showings. It’s a romantic story but I don’t think these two billionaires give a hoot about that.
Our last 3 matches are genuinely pathetic results.
Dropping points, poor subs, poor work ethic late in matches..
-
So frustrating. DS needs to be proactive much earlier in the second half. We always allow teams to get back in to games we've been dominating.
Changes he could've done.....Davis on for Wes to hold the ball up a little better. Trez on for AEG to give us fresh legs on counter attack. Even Jota to try to get more possession although maybe with opposition not his type of game.
More games are won and lost in second half of games so just to do little while the opposition are tweaking formation and changing shape is a pretty odd way of approaching management at the very top level imo.
-
Wesley looking like a complete luxury at the moment. Doesn’t score much, absolutely zero menace from crosses and set pieces, and actually I’m not sure he does that much in support of other attackers, at least not consistently enough to justify his place.
-
We are just incapable of defending a lead against a Premier League side.
-
Point doesnt really do us any favours. Can't see us winning many but if we can hold in there till January a new striker could really give us a boost.
New striker? We need a whole new forward line.
-
And sort it out quickly please. You said we would learn. We arent!
-
Last week was our 2015 Leicester game. This was see Sunderland home 2015. I fear for us already.
-
That is another poor result. We will go down if we don’t stop fading badly in games.
Sort it out Dean.
Fade? We just never got started in the second half. Found ourselves back in front and then fell asleep again.
-
Well, I'm going to be optimistic on this one, we won in midweek and we've taken a point today, perhaps we are learning not to lose, albeit very slowly.
-
Jay Rodriguez is a c***.
Burnley are a horrid team to watch.
We are just lacking something.
A second half plan?
-
Mings and SJM look increasingly frustrated, worryingly.
-
Win the first half, consolidate the second and anything else is a bonus. Eight points chucked in the dustbin, when we might only need one of those to stay up.
-
Very good first half - they were under huge pressure. But 2nd half was dreadful - Dean again waited too long to change it up and by the time he did we’d lost the momentum.
Wesley needs to be dropped - though he was very poor and offered nothing.
-
We signed a team of championship players and we’re a championship side.
-
We are still only six points away from the champions league.
-
Naive is the only word for it. It’s going to get us fucking relegated or at minimum the manager the sack to stop that happening. Pathetic
-
Jay Rodriguez is a c***.
Burnley are a horrid team to watch.
We are just lacking something.
A second half plan?
Pretty much mate, yeah.
First half was very enjoyable. It's now 1am and I'm going to bed, fed up of Villa again. Hope you're doing well, mate.
-
We've led twice in both the last 2 league games and got 1 point.
Our defence isn't really that great is it.
-
Neil F@cking Taylor [shakes head]
-
They bullied us with blessing from the ref.
Taylor sub weakened us.
Not much if a threat from our no 9 position. Decent midfield. Fuck we are mentally weak
-
Mings and SJM look increasingly frustrated, worryingly.
Mings looked really fed up at one point.
-
We signed a team of championship players and we’re a championship side.
I'm not sure about that. Not just yet, anyway.
-
Once again we look fucked by 65 minutes.
Once again we're clearly out of ideas.
Once again Smith has 3 subs available to change things.
Once again, he doesn't.
-
Really thought that Smith had learnt his lesson when I saw that starting 11, then he fucked it up by leaving Wesley on for pretty much the whole match. With Davis up front, that game would have been done and dusted by HT. Liked the shape of the team today, but leaving Wesley up front for pretty much the whole game was our undoing imo.
Was worried we didn't have enough options up front at the start of the season, even more so now - It's not just the lack of goal threat, it's the fact that he can't even hold it up to relieve the pressure off the rest of the team.
One thing that is also perfectly clear after that game is that Targett is a MUCH better option to Taylor at LB - Hopefully he's not out for too long.
Heaton - 5
Guilbert - 6
Engels - 6
Mings - 6
Targett - 7
Hourihane - 7
Grealish - 6
McGinn - 8
El Ghazi - 6
Wesley - 0
Subs
Taylor - 3
Trezeguet - 7
Davies - 7
-
Well, I'm going to be optimistic on this one, we won in midweek and we've taken a point today, perhaps we are learning not to lose, albeit very slowly.
Blimey, that is extremely optimistic!!!!!! We beat a youth team in midweek and threw away the lead twice against a poor Burnley side today.
We played well first half but you have to win these games that are there for the taking.
-
More self inflicted problems undermining the good bits. Smith should be bringing Davis on to hold the ball up when we are being pushed back. He also needs to get them fitter and able to play for the full 90 minutes. He is looking very poor with his in-game management this season. He needs to buck his ideas up.
-
I think we played pretty well and it's frustrating not to get the three points. We obviously need to start getting some wins ASAP but I think we'll get there.
I'd put Keinan in for Wesley next week and see how we go.
-
We need to get back to solid defending. 5 conceded in 2 consecitive games, despite scoring twice in each game.
Goals are at a premium in the Prem. How many other teams would have earned a single point having scored twice in two games?
Well I'll be glad to see the back of September.
-
Anybody else getting really frustrated with Wesley? I really can't see him making it in this league.
A worrying trend of letting games slip which is now 8 points lost from winning positions.
Norwich next week now looking massive.
-
Burnley at home is about as clear a fixture as you can get for assessing whether you're good enough for this league.
-
We've led twice in both the last 2 league games and got 1 point.
Our defence isn't really that great is it.
The defence is going through large spells in games looking really impressive, then makes errors out of nowhere.
Taylor looked to have zero awareness that Rodriguez was there for the 1st, and they collectively switched off straight after we scored.
-
We are still only six points away from the champions league.
It's took us 7 games to accumulate 5 points. It'll be mid December by the time we've picked up those "only six points".
-
Burnley at home is about as clear a fixture as you can get for assessing whether you're good enough for this league.
We drew, so what does that tell us?
-
Anybody else getting really frustrated with Wesley? I really can't see him making it in this league.
A worrying trend of letting games slip which is now 8 points lost from winning positions.
Norwich next week now looking massive.
Definitely. Fed up of his theatrics and his lack of menace up front. He had a rest in midweek and then he puts in that clueless anonymous performance. He’s a complete luxury at the moment. Lack of another striker has fucked us. Thick as shit move that.
-
Why don't we change formation at half-time? 4-3-3 is exhausting because it leaves so much space to cover. If that's the case, withdraw a winger, put on another striker and close up the midfield. Sod drawing pretty, start winning disgusting.
-
Burnley at home is about as clear a fixture as you can get for assessing whether you're good enough for this league.
We drew, so what does that tell us?
That we’re not good enough.
-
I wonder how many of the 11 league goals we've conceded have been good goals by the opposition rather than involving stupid mistakes and/or shit defending by us,
-
A lot of people wanted Trez starting today. Have to admit I'm completely missing what he's offering us at the moment, apart from feigning injury and today, running after the ref waving for a card and getting himself booked.
Yep, Taylor was poor today, it's just a pity the guy bought to replace him appears to made of the same stuff as Lansbury.
Two points from Bournemouth, West Ham and Burnley at home doesn't bode well,
-
I wonder how many of the 11 league goals we've conceded have been good goals by the opposition rather than involving stupid mistakes and/or shit defending by us,
Goals today were pathetic. When you look at how hard we have to work for ours, then we go and ship the kind of whip it in and nod it home goal a Sunday league team would be embarrassed to concede it’s really worrying.
-
I know should woulda coulda, but man, not getting another striking option in was a disaster. I look at Wesley and I see Rudy Gestede and the consequences of betting he'd slot exactly into a Benteke-shaped hole. Did Dean Smith rely on a gigantic figurehead in any other side he put together?
-
I wonder how many of the 11 league goals we've conceded have been good goals by the opposition rather than involving stupid mistakes and/or shit defending by us,
2 Tottenham goals, 2 Bournemouth goals, 2 against Arsenal and probably both today off the top of my head have been down to braindead errors from us.
-
Anybody else getting really frustrated with Wesley? I really can't see him making it in this league.
A worrying trend of letting games slip which is now 8 points lost from winning positions.
Norwich next week now looking massive.
Definitely. Fed up of his theatrics and his lack of menace up front. He had a rest in midweek and then he puts in that clueless anonymous performance. He’s a complete luxury at the moment. Lack of another striker has fucked us. Thick as shit move that.
A "luxury" isn't how I'd describe him. He's fucking shit. We may as well have chucked £25m on a bonfire. He offers us nothing.
Imagine how useless Kodjia would be in the PL. I'd start him over this passenger without a doubt.
-
All 3 Arsenal goals were from poor play by us, Palace goal was awful defending by Jack and Mings.
-
It's not all bad I guess... we're a point better off at this stage than the season we went down!
Norwich away is massive now, but I can't see us getting anything there. Pukki party anyone?
-
One of the things which really fries me about today is that we had VAR go against us when we were clearly on top, and we still scored and led. We didn't let it get us down no matter the perceived injustice. And then we conceded equalisers so limp you could have ruined a Big Mac.
-
F##k
-
Wesley is utter shite. Quite what anybody saw in the useless lump to make them part with £20m+ god only knows.
-
Dreadful second half performance so can't have any complaints with the result. Never started at all, Hendrick had a great chance within a minute, centre halves spending far too much time on the ball with only Nakamba or Grealish coming off left wing looking for it.
Passengers on pitch and on sideline I'm afraid. How could Smith not see that we urgently needed a rejig in midfield or that we were effectively playing with 10 with Wesley ? So disappointing, even last 10 mins and injury time, no urgency at all or quality let's be honest.
Heaton 5 - little to do but had to come off his line to compete with Lowtons cross for the second. Bottled it for me.
Guilbert 7 - fine assist for the first and a willing runner throughout.
Engels 6- solid generally but beaten in air for second goal
Mings 7 - struggled with Wood in first half but dominant in the second.
Targett 7- fine debut, ability on the ball helped us switch play quickly.
AEG 6 - brilliant run and finish for goal but that aside wasn't involved too much in play, not convinced re how hurt he was from the collision for first goal.
Nakamba 7 - one of our more consistent players throughout , quick and tidy on the ball . A fully up to speed Luiz next to him and we would have a good partnership I think.
Hourihane 6 - playing in no man's land from general play but good from set pieces and broken play. Like others drifted out of the game.
McGinn 7 - outstanding in the first half but goal aside was anonymous in second.
Grealish 6 - obviously not too happy on left , in fairness he kept playing until end but quality around box not there this season yet. Really poor shot when it opened up for him in second half. As captain needs to be showing more leadership.
Wesley 2 - absolutely useless, not a single positive in his performance. Bullied physically and technical skills are miles off the required level. Scandalous how he lasted as long on the pitch.
Taylor 3 - arguably at fault for two goals, nowhere near good enough on the ball.
Trez 6 - fine assist for McGinn but a fairly limited player
Davis 6 - showed more in the 10 poxy minutes he got than Wesley. Quicker and a lot braver for starters.
Smith 4 - refreshing change away from his standard formation from the start but we simply have to have two midfielders sitting. That became abundantly clear early in the second half when we lost control of the game. His faith is Wesley is badly misplaced and has become a tactical liability on the sideline during a game. 5 points from 7 games is an awful start.
-
As it stands were fucked. A point at home to Burnley on top of the points average prior is not even close to good enough. It’s going to have to take a dramatic turn around and it’s down to Smith and his team to sort it, either by finding a way of playing which is a lot more fruitful or by making a few amazing signings in January, or maybe a bit of both. Although for me he and his team have already proven they’re no mugs, it’s whether they can prove that they’re real quality from here on in.
-
Played well for longish periods, got caught out by poor concentration, we'll be fine.
-
I can see us going down again, easily. Lose against Spurs and Arsenal away from home, fine (as frustrating as the Arsenal game was, it exposed this team to a tee). Getting 1 point from Bournemouth, Palace and Burnley though, with two of those fixtures being at home, then nah. We're not good enough.
-
Why don't we change formation at half-time? 4-3-3 is exhausting because it leaves so much space to cover. If that's the case, withdraw a winger, put on another striker and close up the midfield. Sod drawing pretty, start winning disgusting.
Seemed 4141 today, Nakamba was certainly all alone regularly with the rest of the midfielders too far ahead of him. Grealish didn't stick much to the left, mind.
-
I want to see hourihane and Davis start every game. If we’re going to fuck it up every week I’d rather see players who give a shit and aren’t picked based on transfer fee.
-
We’re not good enough at the moment, clearly. We play well for periods of games, but never a full game or even the majority of it. We have to stop tailing off. Dean needs to sort it and learn to react when we fade.
-
Played well for longish periods, got caught out by poor concentration, we'll be fine.
It's poor concentration regularly occurring, and we are now nearly 2 months into the season. We are not showing any signs we are learning from mistakes. We've thrown away 5 points (possibly 7) from the last 3 games where we have had golden opportunities.
I think there is a squad of players here (need a striker in January desperately) for us to be able to survive, but they aren't showing it at the moment.
-
Dean Smith just seems monumentally naive at this level and shows no sign of getting to grips with it anytime soon.
-
Played well for longish periods, got caught out by poor concentration, we'll be fine.
15min-20min before half time was all we played well for arguably
infuriating how poor we were to chase the winner at 2-2, Hourihane had one shot but cant remember anything else
-
Dean Smith just seems monumentally naive at this level and shows no sign of getting to grips with it anytime soon.
Yes it’s slightly alarming. He needs to sort it fast.
-
Played well for longish periods, got caught out by poor concentration, we'll be fine.
15min-20min before half time was all we played well for arguably
infuriating how poor we were to chase the winner at 2-2, Hourihane had one shot but cant remember anything else
We looked laboured and sluggish at the end again. We needed to inject tempo into our play and couldn't.
-
Apart from Everton, every game has felt like a kick in the goolies
-
Dean Smith just seems monumentally naive at this level and shows no sign of getting to grips with it anytime soon.
Yes it’s slightly alarming. He needs to sort it fast.
“..that’s one that got away” x 3
-
atrocious at the back today and Wesley was beyond awful. Long hard season ahead. And VAR is bollocks. Any word on Targett's injury?
-
Played well for longish periods, got caught out by poor concentration, we'll be fine.
15min-20min before half time was all we played well for arguably
infuriating how poor we were to chase the winner at 2-2, Hourihane had one shot but cant remember anything else
We looked laboured and sluggish at the end again. We needed to inject tempo into our play and couldn't.
Surely thats what Luiz can bring?
When AEG went off, that was time to change shape completely, bring Luiz in next to Nakamba and have a three in front of them
Smith went like for like with Trez who in fairness made a goal but never improved our shape or performance.
-
https://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-burnley/408041
-
Dean Smith just seems monumentally naive at this level and shows no sign of getting to grips with it anytime soon.
Yes it’s slightly alarming. He needs to sort it fast.
“..that’s one that got away” x 3
Thing is, he talks really well about plans and traps and solutions and all of that, but I don't see it making any difference. I prefer it to Bruce's cliche-speak but if he can see these things well enough to explain them, why is it so easy for other sides to react to what we're doing and outfox him?
-
Thought we were very good in the first half against a very physical Burnley side.
Second half the lack of movement up front killed us and allowed them to get behind the ball very effectively.
Two really bad goals to give away, we really need to stop heading goals out on a plate as it’s going to kill us.
Nakamba my MOM
-
I was hoping we’d go for Llorente when Spurs released him in the summer. Strong, experienced and scores goals, but he wasn’t the type of player the club were going for. He’d have been ideal today.
-
Agree on Nakamba as motm, he looks a smashing player.
-
Defence killed us for the second week running. Chris Woods gave a masterclass in leading the line. Wesley didn't.
-
We need Targett fit and in the team consistently, we suffered greatly when he went off, as Neil Taylor just isn’t good enough. There’s a definite problem with mentality in the team as well, we just seem to crumble under pressure.
Buggering up the Arsenal game just put us under more pressure to get a result today and we don’t look like we can cope with it, it’s very worrying. I don’t know why he isn’t making subs either, we’ve got a squad; he should use it.
-
Another vote for Nakamba - he was excellent and looks the real deal to me.
-
Allowing Burnley to push us around is PL naivety. You knew it was going happen from the start and certainly after HT when Dyche would get into them. We need to be stronger mentally, physically and just smarter overall.
-
So close again, but unfortunatley not enough. No need to panic just yet but we do need to be cuter and quick. If we had the nous of Burnley we'd be sitting in their spot now with the points we've thrown away.
-
The problem with Wesley is not just the underwhelming performances so far, it's that he's our senior striker. He's crying out for an experienced striker to learn from.
-
Missed today as I am on holiday. Lying by the hotel pool, following the forum and following the BBC Sport website, both seemed to suggest that Burnley had scored a very late goal so I thought that we had lost. So I feel quite pleased with a point.
Seriously, it appears that goalscoring and defending early in games isn't a problem but the same later in games is. We have the players but fitness and Deano's tactics as games progress are an issue. Better training can solve the first point but hopefully Deano will learn and that will solve the second. We should have enough to stay up. Deano knows more about the English game than Remi Garde did, or am I trying to convince myself?
-
Surprised that there was no mention of the shirt pull on Guilbert I think for their first goal by Barnes. To me, he gained an advantage and crossed for the cheat Rodriguez to score. Villa players tried to draw the Ref's attention to it but no VAR!
A frustrating game which we should've won. Defensive lapses are being punished. The ref Lee Mason was rubbish today.
-
Whereas last season we were a team and a team who played for each other, we now look like a collection of individuals.
And I am fucking sick of the histrionics from Wesley, el Ghazi and Trezeguet.
I really, really detest the phrase, but these 3 really need to fucking ‘man up’.
The honeymoon is over,
-
I think we played pretty well and it's frustrating not to get the three points. We obviously need to start getting some wins ASAP but I think we'll get there.
I'd put Keinan in for Wesley next week and see how we go.
Think if Kodjia gets a full week of training he might be a surprise starter next week. Had good scoring record v Norwich in the championship.
-
One big thing I’d like to see change is us playing the whistle and not being a bunch of face clutching, fake yellow card waving jessies. It probably was a foul in the build up to the first goal but, equally, if el ghazi had been more focused on getting a foot in and less on the drama queen shite it’s probably not a goal.
-
We are struggling to put in a full ninety minute performance. A decent Championship team like we were last season can get away with a good sixty minute performance and ride their luck for the other thirty minutes. In the Premier League you need to be physically and mentally on form for pretty much the whole game or you will be punished.
I will also agree that lee Mason put in a poor refereeing performance today.
-
we are drawing games we should be winning
and losing games we should be drawing
it’s a big problem
-
The problem with Wesley is not just the underwhelming performances so far, it's that he's our senior striker. He's crying out for an experienced striker to learn from.
It's worth remembering when we signed Benteke in 2012 we still had Bent and Gabby who at that stage were still reasonably effective premier league strikers. We also had Wiemann coming through who had best season of his career that season.
That's the strength in depth you need when you're bringing in young strikers from abroad so you can take them out for a game or two when they need it like we did with Benteke.
Simply don't have it this season.
Can actually see Kodj starting next week, he scored a few v Norwich in the championship.
-
The problem with Wesley is not just the underwhelming performances so far, it's that he's our senior striker. He's crying out for an experienced striker to learn from.
He's got Drogba's horizontal positioning down to a tee. Although Didier did seem to win more free kicks than him.
Good awareness and dummy for our offside goal that was chalked off. But he was pretty bad today, he has to be stronger if he wants to make it as a lone striker.
-
So frustrating again, some of the players should be busting a gut to block the crosses and get a tackle in but some would rather take the opportunity to go down holding their face hoping the ref will give them a decision at the slightest touch.
Should have won that but you have to say feckin Burnley have better strikers than us. We need to buy better forwards in Jan.
-
I’ve said before this ship has sailed but that said if Benteke was available in Jan, even on loan I’d be all over it. Not just as a chance for him to make something of the rest of his career but as a mentor to Wes. If anyone in his prime knew how to bully CB’s it was Benteke. The question obviously is does he still have it?
-
My pants are fucking sopping.
-
Why wasn’t their player booked for taking the long walk off when substituted. I thought the rules have changed here.
-
So frustrating after a very good first half. The management don't seem to cotton on to the opposition changes and also Davis simply had to come on much sooner today. It was the same last week. With a decent forward, we would be well clear of the bottom 3, although the defensive mistakes are getting far too common. Targett going off certainly didn't help though.
Burnley remind me a bit of Stoke. Not much finesse at all, but effective in parts and play to their strengths. Also, they were yet another fouling tag team like Bournemouth and even Arsenal last week, stopping us before we get too close. I hate the tactic but we need to get wiser with it.
Heard Smith's interview on the radio; I was hoping for some more insight, but he really just gave a commentary of what we had already seen.
-
He dosen't, had an awful cameo v Wolves just last week.
I think Batsuhyai from Chelsea would be a good pick up. Well down the pecking order at Chelsea when everyone will be fit and Palace got him on loan in January last season so he's not some impossible striker to sign. Will also want to be playing regularly with Euro 2020 coming up.
Scored 5 league goals from February for Palace which wasn't too bad. He's a finisher who can get on the end of crosses. We need that in January rather than another "project" signing.
-
Horrible team - win the toss and swap ends, time wasting from the first goal kick, niggling fouls, taking it in turns to foul SJM without getting carded, mono-tactical lump it into the box for another big lump to head it. But it works for them and they got what they came for. And if you give them the freedom of Villa Park to get crosses in to totally unmarked said lump you get what you deserve
Thought we played really well first half and should have scored more. Their only real threat in the first half was a free kick which hit the bar. Marvellous, SJM, SJG, Guilbert and Targett all impressed. But we never got started in the second half, and when Taylor came on I said to my mate this would be a turning point in the game, and not in a good way. And if anyone can explain what Wesley offers for the £22m we shelled out on him I'm all ears. He just doesn't even jump when a cross comes in. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong but I'd be tempted to give Keinan a run
Deano has got to find a way of holding on to a lead. Ahead twice last week and lost. Ahead twice this week and draw. These are the teams we have to start beating - losing to the likes of Bournemouth and Palace, and dropping home points against the likes of Burnley and West Ham is just not good enough.
Oh - and fuck VAR
-
Just seen their goals. Second was absolutely awful at any stage in the game. A minute after we had scored it is shameful. Shocking defending.
-
Taylor was poor when he came on. I'd rather see Kortney Hause as cover for the LB position. He's bigger, quicker and much better in the air than Taylor.
-
Burnley were distinctly average but have a physical presence in Woods, Barnes, Hendrick, Peters which will keep you in the prem league. They have the game management we don’t have. We were the better team overall. they have the know how to stay up and probably finish comfortably mid table
-
Taylor was poor when he came on. I'd rather see Kortney Hause as cover for the LB position. He's bigger, quicker and much better in the air than Taylor.
Good call
-
Taylor was poor when he came on. I'd rather see Kortney Hause as cover for the LB position. He's bigger, quicker and much better in the air than Taylor.
Really good shout. I'd like to see Hause and Davis start at Norwich next week.
-
Taylor was poor when he came on. I'd rather see Kortney Hause as cover for the LB position. He's bigger, quicker and much better in the air than Taylor.
Really good shout. I'd like to see Hause and Davis start at Norwich next week.
Same shout here for that. Def, Davies, and someone to nullify Pucki
-
I’ve said before this ship has sailed but that said if Benteke was available in Jan, even on loan I’d be all over it. Not just as a chance for him to make something of the rest of his career but as a mentor to Wes. If anyone in his prime knew how to bully CB’s it was Benteke. The question obviously is does he still have it?
Ask Palace fans and the answer to your question is no , he has been poor for a few years now
A point is not great at this stage but we outplayed Burnley for the majority of the game and once they scored the 2nd Dyche shut up shop to take a draw which limited our ability to get another goal as they simply had no interest in doing anything but sit back , time waste and foul.
Team had an ok balance today but Weasley was a weekness he seems to either lose the battle with CB's or ends up punished for a foul on them.We can't play off him as he ins't holding the ball up enough He needs games to improve but we don't really have that luxury ,we have same issue with Davis - they are both untried at this level
Arsenal we surrendered territory and sat back which was more disappointing that today.
Subs wise I think Luiz would have come on for Houriane if we had no used a sub on on Targett whose injury issues are a concern as Taylor really isn't good enough
-
Nope, nope and thrice nope.
Basically playing with 10 players today. Can’t really recall a more inept performance by a no. 9 in a Villa shirt.
Love Deano but he’s beginning to really worry me, he doesn’t look up to PL standard if his game management is anything to go by.
We thought we would have a rollercoaster season but this is looking more like a damp squib.
Hopeful that our owners are paying attention and do whatever is necessary to keep us up.
-
We throw away points so effortlessly.
Really weird day.
We played very well for most of the game but coming away from it I found myself thinking we are going to get relegated.
Week after week we fail to win. Burnley were dreadful but again, we only take a point.
The longer we stay around the bottom the more we start to smell of relegation and that’sa difficult smell to shake off.
Imagine what a good side would do to us?
It’s just not good enough
-
Lost 8 points from winning positions this season already, we need to learn how to see a game out for 3 points urgently.
-
Bright spot - Nakamba did very well indeed.
-
I can see us going down again, easily. Lose against Spurs and Arsenal away from home, fine (as frustrating as the Arsenal game was, it exposed this team to a tee). Getting 1 point from Bournemouth, Palace and Burnley though, with two of those fixtures being at home, then nah. We're not good enough.
I agree with you but clinging on to straws I would say positives are we have scored in 5 out of 7 matches, kept two clean sheets and not been totally thrashed so far. And to survive you just have be a little bit better than totally shit.
-
We've shown that we can more than compete in this division, we need to show that we can win now.
-
I agree with those who have called out Burnley for what they an horrific team. Sean Dyche unfairly gets good press whereas in reality his style is no better than Allardyce and Pulis.
-
we are drawing games we should be winning
and losing games we should be drawing
it’s a big problem
Yes that's relegation however it could change. We just need to win some of the games we are drawing not all to stay up.
-
I agree with those who have called out Burnley for what they an horrific team. Sean Dyche unfairly gets good press whereas in reality his style is no better than Allardyce and Pulis.
They are indeed horrible, that Barnes is an utter wanker. They play really basic, agricultural football.
However, we also just failed to beat them at home, so what does that say about us?
-
No more hard luck stories. We need to keep hold of a lead for fuk sake getting embarrassing now.
-
I reckon I've got sufficient skills to be able to make Neil Taylor leap in the air with his back to the ball, and I'm 53 and shit.
I thought we were very good up until Targett went off. Both of their goals should've been snuffed out before they were threats. Guilbert caught under the ball for the first, and the second would be piss poor from a Sunday morning side.
Two points chucked away by people not doing their own job properly.
-
Deano definitely at fault today. Dyche made a sub at half time and switched to a 3-4-3 which obviously put more pressure on our back four. Deano should have put another striker on either Jota or Davis to support Wesley (who was shocking but might have improved with some support) to put pressure on their back three, switching to a 4-1-3-2 formation but did nothing and just invited pressure onto us!
We are definitely not learning, which does not bode well and at the moment I can't see us surviving unless three other teams help us out!
Another moan can the players just stop doing press interviews because I am sick to death of the same bullshit being sprouted, do it on the pitch!!!
-
Such a mixed bag today. Nakamba and McGinn were superb. Great to see a left back showing some attacking threat. Hope Targett is ok.
We are naive though. At 2-1 lost focus and that killed us.
Wesley contributed nothing. Can't recall him winning a header against their centre backs or making a positive contribution. He's our main worry from the game.
However we definitely have something there to work on which is what I'm clinging to.
And folk are right. Burnley are a bunch of time-wasting (started in the 6th minute from Pope), mithering, dirty bastards. Effective though for what they want to achieve.
Huge couple of games coming up before the tin hats and blindfolds come out...
-
Well it’s certainly entertaining, which we haven’t said for many a year in this division. Just don’t think we can rely on our we can out score the opposition plan in this division.
-
Especially when our striker is a waste of a shirt like today.
-
Lost 8 points from winning positions this season already, we need to learn how to see a game out for 3 points urgently.
The positive I suppose is that we were in winning positions
-
One small point to make is that us fans are far too easily wound up by teams wasting time, choosing the wrong end at kick off etc...I think we have reputation and teams exploit this.
-
Especially when our striker is a waste of a shirt like today.
Well there is that, difficult to replace 25 goals a season. If he gets to 10 on this form I’d be surprised.
-
Keep reading about people on holiday still. Where did you lot go that it's still so nice? We went to the Costa Blanca the first week in September and nearly died in the worst storm on mainland Spain since records began.
-
I agree with those who have called out Burnley for what they an horrific team. Sean Dyche unfairly gets good press whereas in reality his style is no better than Allardyce and Pulis.
Although it was quite a while before either of those two really got called out, Allardyce got the England job ffs! and Pulis was still getting good press up until he left Crystal Palace. iirc didn't he even win manager of the year keeping Palace up?
Getting a wet stone club like Burnley to 7th in the league was a great achievement for Dyche and he is rightly praised for that.
I hated Bolton and Stoke too but its up to our players and manager to stop them rather than cry and complain the game is all a bit too niggly and physical for us. Its not as if its any great secret what they're going to come and do.
Its like in the championship we had some games where we just had stand our ground and let our quality shine through.
-
We have thrown points away again. It really really needs to stop
-
By no means the worst offender on the day, but questions need to be asked of Grealish. I do not question his desire, but I do question his nous, which is surprising. If the attack is going to run through him, he needs to make better decisions with the ball. On a couple of occasions, he chose to shoot rather than make the easy and proper pass to the open man.
Again, he was not the main proble, but given the frequency of time he has on the ball, it is crucial that he improves quickly.
-
Neil Taylor needs to fuck off. If not Targett, play Hause. Taylor is a bottler, too slow to react as well. Engels isn't strong enough in the air at the moment, needs to get better. Tow very poor goals to give away.
Burnley are streetwise but ugly, determined and nothing better than functional.
-
Wish we were
-
Especially when our striker is a waste of a shirt like today.
Well there is that, difficult to replace 25 goals a season. If he gets to 10 on this form I’d be surprised.
To be fair, he is on track for ten over the season. And I think only eight in the whole of the bottom half scored more than that last season.
Whether Davis or Kodjia could have a similar ratio while also bringing more to the team is a different matter though.
-
I agree with the comments about Burnley. I used to like Dyche and he always seemed honest in post-match comments re diving and cheating. He's obviously of the if you can't beat them join them brigade because, no matter how bad we were (and I don't think we were bad at all for large parts of the game), their niggling, fouling, backchatting, cheating, time wasting tactics were shameful. What happened to entertainment.
And according to the beeb website, Lowton made the brilliant cross for McGinn to score our second - and we still couldn't win.
-
By no means the worst offender on the day, but questions need to be asked of Grealish. I do not question his desire, but I do question his nous, which is surprising. If the attack is going to run through him, he needs to make better decisions with the ball. On a couple of occasions, he chose to shoot rather than make the easy and proper pass to the open man.
Again, he was not the main proble, but given the frequency of time he has on the ball, it is crucial that he improves quickly.
Grealish runs laterally with the ball far too much, instead of releasing it quickly. Supposed to be on the left wing but dropped in front of the centre halves to pick up the ball at times. A lot of what he does seems self indulgent, taking five touches when one or two would do. Big moment in second half and dreadful shot over the bar.
McGinn in the first half was the polar opposite. Decisive in possession, exposing defenders one on one and forcing mistakes without the ball.
-
Sean Dyche has worked wonders for Burnley and deservedly gets plaudits. I understand why we slag off our opponents after a match but really fair play to them. God knows what their budget is but I'm sure it's a fraction of the real baddies in this division. In all honesty it's probably a fraction of ours. Being high and mighty about clubs like this doesn't really wash when we've been a dysfunctionally atrocious club for the time we've spent in the top flight this decade. In summary, today we should have won but didn't because they were more efficient than us. Now the game is over, good luck to them. Much rather see Newcastle and Wolves go down.
-
By no means the worst offender on the day, but questions need to be asked of Grealish. I do not question his desire, but I do question his nous, which is surprising. If the attack is going to run through him, he needs to make better decisions with the ball. On a couple of occasions, he chose to shoot rather than make the easy and proper pass to the open man.
Again, he was not the main proble, but given the frequency of time he has on the ball, it is crucial that he improves quickly.
On that shot over the bar in the second half, Trez was wide open, Jack played the ball to him in an identical position against Arsenal and he put a tame shot directly at Leno. I genuinly believe this was in Jacks mind when deciding wether to shoot or lay it off.
-
Sean Dyche has worked wonders for Burnley and deservedly gets plaudits. I understand why we slag off our opponents after a match but really fair play to them. God knows what their budget is but I'm sure it's a fraction of the real baddies in this division. In all honesty it's probably a fraction of ours. Being high and mighty about clubs like this doesn't really wash when we've been a dysfunctionally atrocious club for the time we've spent in the top flight this decade. In summary, today we should have won but didn't because they were more efficient than us. Now the game is over, good luck to them. Much rather see Newcastle and Wolves go down.
I have to agree with this
-
By no means the worst offender on the day, but questions need to be asked of Grealish. I do not question his desire, but I do question his nous, which is surprising. If the attack is going to run through him, he needs to make better decisions with the ball. On a couple of occasions, he chose to shoot rather than make the easy and proper pass to the open man.
Again, he was not the main proble, but given the frequency of time he has on the ball, it is crucial that he improves quickly.
Grealish runs laterally with the ball far too much, instead of releasing it quickly. Supposed to be on the left wing but dropped in front of the centre halves to pick up the ball at times. A lot of what he does seems self indulgent, taking five touches when one or two would do. Big moment in second half and dreadful shot over the bar.
Agree with this to an extent, but my issue is that he's passing up opportunities to drive forward into the box to either shoot from closer range or win a penalty.
-
By no means the worst offender on the day, but questions need to be asked of Grealish. I do not question his desire, but I do question his nous, which is surprising. If the attack is going to run through him, he needs to make better decisions with the ball. On a couple of occasions, he chose to shoot rather than make the easy and proper pass to the open man.
Again, he was not the main proble, but given the frequency of time he has on the ball, it is crucial that he improves quickly.
Did you think build up was the issue? No wonder
-
By no means the worst offender on the day, but questions need to be asked of Grealish. I do not question his desire, but I do question his nous, which is surprising. If the attack is going to run through him, he needs to make better decisions with the ball. On a couple of occasions, he chose to shoot rather than make the easy and proper pass to the open man.
Again, he was not the main proble, but given the frequency of time he has on the ball, it is crucial that he improves quickly.
Grealish runs laterally with the ball far too much, instead of releasing it quickly. Supposed to be on the left wing but dropped in front of the centre halves to pick up the ball at times. A lot of what he does seems self indulgent, taking five touches when one or two would do. Big moment in second half and dreadful shot over the bar.
Agree with this to an extent, but my issue is that he's passing up opportunities to drive forward into the box to either shoot from closer range or win a penalty.
Grealish isn't the problem - in my eyes he had another 7/10 performance.
I'm starting to think he's becoming under-appreciated somewhat. Some goals/assists in some winning performances are all thats missing.
-
Mings and SJM look increasingly frustrated, worryingly.
Mings looked really fed up at one point.
Maybe but he didn't cover himself in glory today either
-
More self inflicted problems undermining the good bits. Smith should be bringing Davis on to hold the ball up when we are being pushed back. He also needs to get them fitter and able to play for the full 90 minutes. He is looking very poor with his in-game management this season. He needs to buck his ideas up.
He didn't noticeably improve this area when he did come on, albeit late
-
A lot of people wanted Trez starting today. Have to admit I'm completely missing what he's offering us at the moment, apart from feigning injury and today, running after the ref waving for a card and getting himself booked.
Yep, Taylor was poor today, it's just a pity the guy bought to replace him appears to made of the same stuff as Lansbury.
Two points from Bournemouth, West Ham and Burnley at home doesn't bode well,
The cross for our second goal?
-
I know it’s a big it but if we managed two wins against Norwich and Brighton suddenly 7 points from these three games doesn’t look bad does it? We are capable of winning them. Everyone has got to stick together this season. We always knew it would be tough.
-
By no means the worst offender on the day, but questions need to be asked of Grealish. I do not question his desire, but I do question his nous, which is surprising. If the attack is going to run through him, he needs to make better decisions with the ball. On a couple of occasions, he chose to shoot rather than make the easy and proper pass to the open man.
Again, he was not the main proble, but given the frequency of time he has on the ball, it is crucial that he improves quickly.
Grealish runs laterally with the ball far too much, instead of releasing it quickly. Supposed to be on the left wing but dropped in front of the centre halves to pick up the ball at times. A lot of what he does seems self indulgent, taking five touches when one or two would do. Big moment in second half and dreadful shot over the bar.
Agree with this to an extent, but my issue is that he's passing up opportunities to drive forward into the box to either shoot from closer range or win a penalty.
Grealish isn't the problem - in my eyes he had another 7/10 performance.
I'm starting to think he's becoming under-appreciated somewhat. Some goals/assists in some winning performances are all thats missing.
I don't think he's the problem either, I just think he's not being the best version of himself. He's still pretty good, but we know that there's so much more to come.
-
Disappointing not to get the win, but with 31 games remaining, I'm staying positive. Only 4 points separate 10th from 18th in this league. There's lots of points to play for. With a bit more focus in games (particularly in the last 15-20 mins) and the continued support of the Villa
fans, things will start going our way. It will be interesting to see what we do striker-wise in January, but until then hopefully 1 of the 3 we've got will provide the consistency (and goals) that we need.
-
For the past few hours I thought McGinns celebration was a heart and point towards the Holte , just cottoned on what it actually was. What a bloke!
-
For the past few hours I thought McGinns celebration was a heart and point towards the Holte , just cottoned on what it actually was. What a bloke!
What was it?
-
Did the VAR sign and pointed at the ref.
-
Did the VAR sign and pointed at the ref.
Ah, thanks.
-
Targett going off really weakened us Taylor is a liability. Credit to the two starting full backs, Nakamba and McGinn. We were playing with ten men all day we have a centre forward who is 6ft 4' but can't jump and can't hold the ball up. I'm starting to worry about DS we had out best first half all season and yet start the second half at half pace the Burnley manager made changes at half time and we didn't adapt to the change that's the job of the manager.
I can imagine the owners will be making plans should the results not improve in the next two or three weeks as already we see players heads dropping.
-
Firstly, whilst it's crap being the team that has lost most points from winning positions at least were doing enough to be in front in the first place.
Secondly Taylor has been good do far this season.
Thirdly, ah bollocks.
-
I just quite like being a Villa fan right now, 17th or not. ( cool with 18th too )
-
I'd like it more if we were actually 17th!
-
Our shooting, generally this season has been shite.
So many efforts have been scuffed, mis-hit or mis-timed. No one has put their feckin laces through one yet.
-
The team is only ever going to be as strong as its weakest links. Sadly, we have two or three of them.
-
We’re going to give someone a good spanking soon.
-
We’re going to give someone a good spanking soon.
That’s one of the most trotted out cliches on here when we’re not doing very well, and it rarely happens. Who are we going to spank? Who is going to score the goals? I’d settle for a scrappy 1-0 right now, never mind the fabled and seldom seen spanking.
-
We played well but ultimately got punished for not being switched on from the restart, deserved the 3 points imo. Usual suspects stood up again but really let down by lack of a quality striker and poor game management once again. Seems we say the same every week.
-
We’re going to give someone a good spanking soon.
It would have to be a 6-3 spanking as we can score but we can't defend.
-
There are 3 problems
1. We are playing without a Centre forward, Weseley is not good enough.
2. Taylor ; woeful
3. Smith is too rigid and his game management is poor.
We are in trouble.
-
Was at the game earlier, but been out since and have only got back in. We seem to be finding ways of snatching defeats and draws from the jaws of victory at the moment.
Thought we were good in patches and McGinn was excellent in the first half, but faded a bit in the second. Thought Marvelous also had a decent game in midfield and was tidy on the ball. Thought Targett did pretty well today and it will be frustrating if he is injured and out for a while.
Thought we looked a bit nervy at the back throughout today and the goals came from pretty poor defending in the wide areas. Guilbert looks a bit shaky defensively at times and got caught out a few times by diagonal balls. Taylor's efforts to stop Rodrigues getting to the ball and to stop the cross for the second were half-hearted to say the least.
Thought Wesley didn't get too much service, but he struggled today. He just doesn't get in a position to challenge for the ball most times and watching him again today, I don't think he is much of an aerial presence at all. The failure to sign another striking option in the window is looking a bit costly at the moment.
-
I was being ironic guys.
-
guys.
Lads.
-
There were periods in the first half when I thought we looked a really good side but it seems we can't sustain the effort for a full game, for the first time I thought our central defensive pairing looked vulnerable.
-
We looked pretty decent in the the first half and played some good stuff in an open game.
Dyche changed formation after the break, and we did not adapt. I know the the purists will not agree, but when a player like Barnes starts taking liberties, you have to have to show him he will have to pay a price, not go crying to the ref.
When Lowton put that cross in there was no-one near him. If Taylor was man-marking a player that had run inside, that doesn't fill me with confidence, either.
I am sure we will improve, but we are in the relegation mix already. There are no poor teams in this division, and anybody saying otherwise is living in the past.
-
Keep reading about people on holiday still. Where did you lot go that it's still so nice? We went to the Costa Blanca the first week in September and nearly died in the worst storm on mainland Spain since records began.
Working, but in Qingdao and very good weather here still.
-
Keep reading about people on holiday still. Where did you lot go that it's still so nice? We went to the Costa Blanca the first week in September and nearly died in the worst storm on mainland Spain since records began.
Working, but in Qingdao and very good weather here still.
Some nice German beer and a cathedral if I remember correctly. Enjoy!
-
We don’t stop crosses coming into the box at all well enough. This team is better than the shockingly bad one we had the last season in this league, so it’s not despair time yet. But that’s a pretty low bar. Yesterday felt like a loss.
-
By no means the worst offender on the day, but questions need to be asked of Grealish. I do not question his desire, but I do question his nous, which is surprising. If the attack is going to run through him, he needs to make better decisions with the ball. On a couple of occasions, he chose to shoot rather than make the easy and proper pass to the open man.
Again, he was not the main proble, but given the frequency of time he has on the ball, it is crucial that he improves quickly.
I thought his was a sound performance although I agree he held on to the ball for too long and at times was far too deep, Mings needs to be bringing the ball out from the back more and giving it to Jack 20 yards further up the field.
Other thing not helping us is that the movement from the CF just wasn’t there so when Jack is carrying the ball there isn’t a forward pass on so he dribbles trying to open something up.
Lack of forward options was a worry for a lot of us and it’s apparent that we are just going to have to muddle through to January, which isn’t great planning give the summer spend.
-
Thought we were a little naive yesterday. When Rodriguez comes on it was pretty clear he was targeting Taylor in the air. Why didn’t Mings drop and cover him in the box. Engels has Wood in his pocket. That change in formation and tactics by Burley wasn’t matched by us. It cost us the game.
Don’t mind Grealish playing off the left. He offered defensive support to Targett, who is a wing back not a full back and was the most effective he’s been, this season. It allowed AEG to play down the right and, instead of cutting in, get to the by line.
I have read a lot about how “shit” Taylor is, even a couple of comments that we’d do better with 10 men. Each to their own opinion I suppose although yesterday was the first time when I can say he was at fault for any of the goals this season. He isn’t exactly dynamic going forward.
Targett clearly has hamstrings made of glass, so who else? Hause? DS doesn’t seem to want to do that. There will be a good reason. Mings and use Konsa or Hause at centre half alongside Engels?
The real positives are that the first half, Marvellous and SJM ran the game, the second half SJM drifted out a little but Nakamba was still on his game.
Think we will get a result at Norwich.
-
I was there yesterday, I thought ,we were out thought by Sean Dyce. I thought I wouldn’t mind 1 of their useless strikers. I find it sad we have to wait to properly celebrate a goal due to VAR. A full house against Burnley,is brilliant ,the team at the moment appear brittle, and I wonder what will happen if we can’t win one of The next two games?
I thought having JT in a coaching role would make us really strong at the back? Wesley is young I hope he can improve at the moment, we may as well stick Hause or Konsa up front ,give opposition centre backs something to do. I think Davis will give us a holding presence upfront but goals ? Answers on a postcard.
-
It's a bit frustrating every week to say we're nearly there, not far away, but we don't look like a doomed relegation side.
We're in every game, we just need to get ourselves over the line in the next few weeks.
Targett and Nakamba were massive plusses yesterday.
-
Strangely, after yesterday's game I feel again pissed off and frustrated but pretty optimistic. There is so much which is good about this team and at times we play really good football. There is a pattern of play and structure in the team combined with a few players of real quality. The worry is that Wesley is not up to speed at the moment and this is hampering our play. We need to be more ruthless and take advantage when we're on top. It will become more of a worry if we don't get a win soon, because points make prizes, etc. But I do think we're nearly there to becoming a decent Premier League team. Oh and Westwood doesn't do floaty corners any more and looks a competent player.
-
It's concerning that their 2nd goal came from a position between the 2 centre backs and in front of Heaton. Somebody needed to take responsibility. Heaton as the most experienced in the prem league should be organising the defence in front of him. It doesn't help that 2 players allowed the cross to come in. Knowing that the burnley manager changed his formation, it would be interesting to know what kind of inside info came from Heaton regarding burnley tactics. Burnley's approach to the game should have come as no surprise, yet it seemed like we didn't react quickly enough in the 2nd half and when we did it seemed to play into their hands eg Taylor for Targett.
-
We can all accept that some of the football we play has been excellent. We can also accept that the ugly side of the game, where we have to battle and stay on top of things and avoid the flakiness that has lost us 8 points already this season, is something we haven't yet mastered. Although I have been critical of the way Burnley approached the game yesterday (not exactly entertaining), we have to admit that this is the side of the game they have mastered - and we haven't.
-
Jack needs to take pace of the ball when he shoots everything going skywards at the moment.
-
The most disappointing thing about yesterday (aside from the result) was that we still conceded so cheaply even after sacrificing a forward and bolstering midfield.
I'd kidded myself after previous games that we were far too open, and that was why we were so porous.
Wesley was crap but even so, having to score three in a game to put away Burnley and Bournemouth? That's just not on.
-
After watching the goals again they really are bad defending from pretty much everyone involved, for a player of Taylor’s experience unforgivable.
-
We’ve been the better team for long periods in almost every game this season. It’s the savvy-ness and concentration we need to improve on. We aren’t adrift, we have some decent players, we can do this.
-
I thought we played reasonably well overall. Switched off for their second goal which was disappointing but again it's a game we should have won because I don't think Burnley were that great really.
-
The main positive is that we have been competitive in all games bar one hate to think of us losing JM to injury he is by far our most important player.
-
The worst part of the last few weeks has been losing matches and points from winning positions. That always feels worse.
I am currently consoling myself by telling myself that it’s easier to learn how to KEEP a lead than to learn how to get one in the first place. We are clearly doing something right to get the leads in the first place, so hopefully Dean will sort out the problems in keeping them. I hope I’m right.
-
I'd like it more if we were actually 17th!
I'd like it more if were 1st.
-
I coach an Under 11s team and am constantly telling the full backs to do everything they can to stop the cross coming in in the first place and to never turn their back on the ball. Burnley’s first goal was bad enough but the second was unforgivable, especially from Taylor.
The consistent emotion after every game is frustration. The first half was really enjoyable and McGinn was sensational. At HT everyone was saying the same thing - can we keep this up for 90 minutes and not let it slip again? Unfortunately not. Again.
Frustrating but IF we can beat Norwich, I fancy us to then beat Brighton and we’ll all be much happier going into a tough run of fixtures.
-
The team is only ever going to be as strong as its weakest links. Sadly, we have two or three of them.
That's not true. Teams do not default to that status. Teams should be coached and set up to cover for weak points.
-
I hope that Taylor is ditched now. He’s been ok this season but he was back to his goal-costing worst yesterday.
-
I coach an Under 11s team and am constantly telling the full backs to do everything they can to stop the cross coming in in the first place and to never turn their back on the ball. Burnley’s first goal was bad enough but the second was unforgivable, especially from Taylor.
The consistent emotion after every game is frustration. The first half was really enjoyable and McGinn was sensational. At HT everyone was saying the same thing - can we keep this up for 90 minutes and not let it slip again? Unfortunately not. Again.
Frustrating but IF we can beat Norwich, I fancy us to then beat Brighton and we’ll all be much happier going into a tough run of fixtures.
From the angle I had (viewing from the DE), for the first goal, Guilbert was initially outmusceled by Woods and then had his shirt held as Woods used it to slow Guilbert down and also enhance his own run. After that, Burnley had the luck of the bounce in much the same way as Palace did when they scored against us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but there were opportunities to kick the ball out for a throw that weren't taken. Easy to say this from row PP, I know.
-
Although I agree that more could have been done to prevent the crosses both of their goals were free headers from inside the six yard box, that points to a failure of communication as much as anything else.
Otherwise there was plenty to like about the performance, particularly in the first half, but whereas a couple of weeks ago the chat was about defensive solidity but a lack of incisiveness at the other end now that seems to have reversed. I am hopeful that we’ll soon find a way of putting it all together.
-
I wonder if we've lost a lot of the squad "togetherness" that was so evident last season. I know that's a bit obvious considering the amount of changes, but the management were telling us during the summer that the new lads had gelled really well.
Tyrone looks unhappy since his return from England. He doesn't seem the same player at all. Last season, that team spirit really carried us and we really need it now.
-
Players are always going to be happier when they are winning, and we aren’t. I’d guess it’s as simple as that.
-
I wonder if we've lost a lot of the squad "togetherness" that was so evident last season. I know that's a bit obvious considering the amount of changes, but the management were telling us during the summer that the new lads had gelled really well.
Tyrone looks unhappy since his return from England. He doesn't seem the same player at all. Last season, that team spirit really carried us and we really need it now.
He is the same player, maybe even better than last season.
He doesn’t seem to be the same person though.
-
I wonder if we've lost a lot of the squad "togetherness" that was so evident last season. I know that's a bit obvious considering the amount of changes, but the management were telling us during the summer that the new lads had gelled really well.
Tyrone looks unhappy since his return from England. He doesn't seem the same player at all. Last season, that team spirit really carried us and we really need it now.
He is the same player, maybe even better than last season.
He doesn’t seem to be the same person though.
How has Tyrone changed?
-
For all the positives yesterday, we (again) didn’t win. If we aren’t beating Burnley at home, who are we going to beat?
-
For all the positives yesterday, we (again) didn’t win. If we aren’t beating Burnley at home, who are we going to beat?
Brighton (maybe)
-
I hope that Taylor is ditched now. He’s been ok this season but he was back to his goal-costing worst yesterday.
Hause would add some power and height at set piece time too. We only have two players in the side any use in the air (both centre halves).
-
Yes both goals we conceded were poor, but where was VAR for their 1st goal, El Ghazi was clearly elbowed in the face by Pieters and as a result had to be substituted. As for the SJM disallowed goal, while the decision in the end was right, to wait until just before the match is to restart, to wipe the goal off, is a joke.
Apart from SJM of course, looked like Targett had a good debut, hopefully his injury is not too bad and Marvelous also looked very impressive.
-
I hope that Taylor is ditched now. He’s been ok this season but he was back to his goal-costing worst yesterday.
It got worse when I watched it back on MOTD. Easily done by Lowton's 'dummy' for the second, and at no point looked like he even thought he might win the header for the Rodriguez one.
Could do with an update today or tomorrow that Targett will be back Saturday.
-
I hope that Taylor is ditched now. He’s been ok this season but he was back to his goal-costing worst yesterday.
Hause would add some power and height at set piece time too. We only have two players in the side any use in the air (both centre halves).
I'm surprised we haven't seen Hause yet. After an awful debut last season he improved no end, and in the few games he played left back he looked very good indeed. Much more mobile up the left than Taylor.
-
Hause would have been a good 'hauses for courses' (excuse the pun) pick against a side like Burnley, or at least a good option to have on the bench.
On the plus side Targett and Marvellous look like they have potential for us.
-
Jack needs to take pace of the ball when he shoots everything going skywards at the moment.
It’s not the pace of the ball that’s the problem, it’s the technique. De Bruyne strikes the ball harder than anyone whilst also keeping it low and accurate.
-
I hope that Taylor is ditched now. He’s been ok this season but he was back to his goal-costing worst yesterday.
Me too. Ok is not enough in this league, and we need full backs who can get forward and play a bit as well as defend reasonably solidly. Taylor failed to do even the latter yesterday and was at least partly at fault for both Burnley goals (although Heaton and the CBs can take a share of the blame for the second). If Targett isn't fit I'd much rather see Hause play LB.
-
Marvellous is turning world class and is our best performer by far. Watching live yesterday, his no nonsense tackling, constant distribution, going forward decision making and loads of taps and flicks to dispossess opposition was top drawer. Luiz started season well and I liked him but something dramatic needs to happen to get his place back unless Luiz plays odd game as a sitter with marvellous further forward giving jack or mcginn an occasional rest .
Good to see Connor back and Targett will be reliable if they can get his hamstrings sorted. I’m glad Deano had balls to tweak system and personal.
He needs to have balls to put Hause LB whilst Targett out and drop Engels for a bit as he’s made poor decisions last few weeks and cost penalties/goals to give Konsa a chance to play with mings .
Until we get another quality striker option to start as choice from Wesley and another decent option off bench we will be in the bottom 5 until January unfortunately .
If we make those January acquisitions and pull a run out of the bag half as good as last year between feb - April hopefully we’ll survive
-
We’re playing ok. Need to have faith with Keinan and put him in. The ball will stick.
-
I coach an Under 11s team and am constantly telling the full backs to do everything they can to stop the cross coming in in the first place and to never turn their back on the ball. Burnley’s first goal was bad enough but the second was unforgivable, especially from Taylor.
The consistent emotion after every game is frustration. The first half was really enjoyable and McGinn was sensational. At HT everyone was saying the same thing - can we keep this up for 90 minutes and not let it slip again? Unfortunately not. Again.
Frustrating but IF we can beat Norwich, I fancy us to then beat Brighton and we’ll all be much happier going into a tough run of fixtures.
From the angle I had (viewing from the DE), for the first goal, Guilbert was initially outmusceled by Woods and then had his shirt held as Woods used it to slow Guilbert down and also enhance his own run. After that, Burnley had the luck of the bounce in much the same way as Palace did when they scored against us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but there were opportunities to kick the ball out for a throw that weren't taken. Easy to say this from row PP, I know.
I was in the Holte lowers and felt exactly the same as you re the first goal. Gilbert could have stuck a toe in to push the ball away for a throw. Thereafter Taylor was on his heel but I would never fancy him against Rodriguez in any aerial duel.
We were poor in stopping the second cross, really amateurish, but the central defenders were weak too.
Amongst other issues, I think we lack an element of physicality, and at times athleticism. It has been noticeable how our players have been outmuscled in several games. I was struck at Spurs by how much bigger their players were, and even McGinn was bouncing off Sissokho et al.
I thought their central defenders yesterday had the upper hand in all set pieces and Wood was a real handful for them. If you swapped him and Wesley we would probably have won the game. I never felt comfortable when they attacked, though we were more solid with Targett at left back.
We also need to wise up. We play well in parts but have spells where we switch off and teams take advantage of this - Palace goal was a counter when we were down to 10 men, giving away 3 bad goals v Arsenal, switching off yesterday after scoring the second.
And finally, Jack needs to improve his shooting. Two skied efforts yesterday were abysmal, the second when Trezeguet was free.
-
Jack's shooting yesterday was Tonev-esque
-
Jack's shooting yesterday was Tonev-esque
He's been watching George Ford.
-
For all the positives yesterday, we (again) didn’t win. If we aren’t beating Burnley at home, who are we going to beat?
Someone else?
-
First time poster but avid reader of all your comments. Firstly I’ve been going down VP since I was 8 and I’m now 45 so seen some highs and lows over that time. A couple of comments over the start to this season; posters may be right about billionaire owners getting twitchy about investing millions & getting no immediate return. However we as fans should not be helping a situation get out of hand. Stuff posted online gets out there in the real world and will start to make VP a twitchy nervy place and we all know what that can be like. IMO Dean Smith is playing the best football we’ve seen in a number of years, he’s the best manager we’ve had since O’Neil and better than O’Leary before that. That’s not to say mistakes haven’t been made and he’s beyond criticism, but are we really questioning him after 7 games, absolutely mad. 8 months ago we were getting hammered by Wigan and scrapping draws to qpr and hull, but we all stuck together and he and the team came good and that wasn’t all down to the return of grealish though granted it helped massively.
Secondly I’m old enough to remember the last time we came up in the late 80s under Graham Taylor. We all I assume loved what Taylor did for us? Well that season we escaped relegation by a point & finished 17th, from memory we needed Liverpool to tonk West Ham on last day off season to send them down instead of us. From my memory we had some good players then as well, mcinally, platt, Daly, Chris price I could go on. The point is, football has changed etc etc but by and large promoted teams have always struggled for first year or so apart from odd exceptions, Watford in 80s, Ipswich in 90s, wolves last year. We stuck with Taylor and nearly won the league the year after.
We need to stick with smith and get behind the boys, it’s going to be a long tough season, but we need to keep believing in these players and manager. We cannot call it relegation after 7 games. UTV
-
Great first post.
-
Yes, seconded. Welcome Rambo.
-
I think if we had a decent striker with a bit of nous, we'd be winning these games.
Wesley has been terrible so far, apart from the Everton game. He gets beaten and bullied far, far too often for a guy of his size. Then instead of working to rectify his mistakes, he sulks and moans.
Because he can't protect the ball or find space, we end up under more pressure than necessary.
To be honest, I'd rather we'd shelled out for Maupay, who might not be brilliant but looks like a clever, niggly little bastard.
-
A lot of good points there. Also compared to the everton match the atmosphere was pretty flat too. That extra effort is needed on and off the pitch.
-
Jack's shooting yesterday was Tonev-esque
Massively unfair Mr Sox. At least he had one that the keeper had to save. After all of these years Tonev still has balls in orbit around B6.
-
Regarding the atmosphere, someone earlier mentioned along the lines of how our crowd allow themselves to get wound up over, well, not very much. I doubt it'll have gone unnoticed to the rest of the division that if you want to distract us and quieten us down, simply pick the ball up and move it to the other side of your six yard box.
-
Regarding the atmosphere, someone earlier mentioned along the lines of how our crowd allow themselves to get wound up over, well, not very much. I doubt it'll have gone unnoticed to the rest of the division that if you want to distract us and quieten us down, simply pick the ball up and move it to the other side of your six yard box.
Well I thought there was plenty for ya to get wound up about yesterday. Why no yellow cards for many of the fouls on Mcginn?
-
Oh, I agree, that Caniggia sequence in particular. But they'd turned us round at the toss, then deployed the goal kick time wasting immediately. Even where I'm sat, amongst the historically less volatile, I got a feeling some people were more interested in the taking of the next Burnley goal kick than the dashing exploits of their own team in the first half.
Their supporters didn't have to shout us down, their manager had already sorted it.
-
I think if we had a decent striker with a bit of nous, we'd be winning these games.
Wesley has been terrible so far, apart from the Everton game. He gets beaten and bullied far, far too often for a guy of his size. Then instead of working to rectify his mistakes, he sulks and moans.
Because he can't protect the ball or find space, we end up under more pressure than necessary.
To be honest, I'd rather we'd shelled out for Maupay, who might not be brilliant but looks like a clever, niggly little bastard.
Despite his size, I think it is becoming apparent that Wesley isn't a target man type of striker. Watching him yesterday, had just isn't in a position to challenge for the ball when it goes up there most of the time. That said, he is OK when the ball is played into is his feet and he does tend to keep hold of it then.
-
For all the positives yesterday, we (again) didn’t win. If we aren’t beating Burnley at home, who are we going to beat?
Someone else?
I’m going to need you to be just a smidgeon more specific if I’m going to lump my life savings on it.
-
Norwich and Brighton double.
-
All £3.57 of it?
-
All £3.57 of it?
100% of my savings is 100% of my savings even if it is only £3.57.
-
How does Legion knows about the size of your purse?
And by the way we will beat Liverpool in November and end their winning run. Borrow money and lump it on that.
-
It comes to something that a 22 million striker (or whatever Wesley cost) obviously needs practice in how to head the ball with venom on the training ground. I still think he will come good. he works hard, chases down and from his goals against Everton and Arsenal obviously has some talent, but his heading (for a big man) is appalling.
-
I thought Connor was absolute garbage on Saturday, if someone can tell me what he brings to the team, apart from the odd free kick (reminds me of Bacuna)?
Wesley needs to step up, but in fairness to him whenever the ball was sent up into the air towards him from goal kicks he was battling with 3 players to win it, even if he would have won the header there would have been no one around him to get the flick on.
-
I was pleased with Targetts debut and the re-introduction of Conor into midfield, at the expense of a winger.
Both contributed and it was only after Targett's substitution that our defense and keeper decided to turn into jelly.
I hope Deano continues with the extra man in midfield, certainly until we have more effective wingers.
-
It comes to something that a 22 million striker (or whatever Wesley cost) obviously needs practice in how to head the ball with venom on the training ground. I still think he will come good. he works hard, chases down and from his goals against Everton and Arsenal obviously has some talent, but his heading (for a big man) is appalling.
He still has a chance, however another 4-5 performance of this ilk and sadly I fear the crowd may destroy his confidence beyond repair.
-
I was pleased with Targetts debut and the re-introduction of Conor into midfield, at the expense of a winger.
Both contributed and it was only after Targett's substitution that our defense and keeper decided to turn into jelly.
I hope Deano continues with the extra man in midfield, certainly until we have more effective wingers.
Conor did very little.
-
I was pleased with Targetts debut and the re-introduction of Conor into midfield, at the expense of a winger.
Both contributed and it was only after Targett's substitution that our defense and keeper decided to turn into jelly.
I hope Deano continues with the extra man in midfield, certainly until we have more effective wingers.
Conor did very little.
I thought he had a quiet game, no lack of effort but didn't affect the game. Interestingly Jack got accused of the same, yet I felt most attacks went through him.
-
Hourahanes freekick hit the post and a couple if decent corners. No a lot else.
-
Hourihane was lively up until their equaliser. I thought he was quick to close them down in midfield, his passing was crisp and his movement off the ball when we were in possesion created plenty of space for others. But once it went to one each, he didn't seem to be able to affect the game at all.
-
Disappointed again when we went 2-1 I thought we had them then we go and concede straight away which we should have done better and not conceded they say you are most vulnerable when you have just scored which I agree with that.
-
Hourahanes freekick hit the post and a couple if decent corners. No a lot else.
Put in the ball for the disallowed goal too
He was playing too far ahead of the ball to influence the game I thought. Should have dropped next to Nakamba into a two but it was clearly a tactic that he should be further up the pitch. It beggars belief how Smith can't see this nor change it during a game. It's between Luiz and Hourihane for that spot next to Nakamba for me.
-
Conor’s had very little time in this league, starts or otherwise. He was more entitled to a quiet game than most on Saturday.
-
I was pleased with Targetts debut and the re-introduction of Conor into midfield, at the expense of a winger.
Both contributed and it was only after Targett's substitution that our defense and keeper decided to turn into jelly.
I hope Deano continues with the extra man in midfield, certainly until we have more effective wingers.
Conor did very little.
I'd be very tempted to play Luiz (with Marvelous) to create a more solid midfield, freeing up Jack and SJM to get more forward without fear of leaving us open to counter-attack. And Luiz is a good enough to get further forward when/if required.
-
I concur - Luiz and Marvelous need to form the DM duo and I think that would really solidify the midfield area. But Jack has to be more disciplined and stop tracking back - much of his play is in the wrong are of the field - he needs to take less touches but make more count and he’d do that once he stops retreating all the time.
We definitely have the quality in 9 positions - GK, back 4, Luiz, Marvelous, Jack, and SJM - and for me that has to be the nucleus for the rest of the season.
I’d then play two interchangeably of Jota, ElGhazi, Trez, Wesley, and Davis - possibly dropping Wesley for a bit and giving Davis a few games.
-
I concur - Luiz and Marvelous need to form the DM duo and I think that would really solidify the midfield area. But Jack has to be more disciplined and stop tracking back - much of his play is in the wrong are of the field - he needs to take less touches but make more count and he’d do that once he stops retreating all the time.
We definitely have the quality in 9 positions - GK, back 4, Luiz, Marvelous, Jack, and SJM - and for me that has to be the nucleus for the rest of the season.
I’d then play two interchangeably of Jota, ElGhazi, Trez, Wesley, and Davis - possibly dropping Wesley for a bit and giving Davis a few games.
Gets my vote
-
I was pleased with Targetts debut and the re-introduction of Conor into midfield, at the expense of a winger.
Both contributed and it was only after Targett's substitution that our defense and keeper decided to turn into jelly.
I hope Deano continues with the extra man in midfield, certainly until we have more effective wingers.
Conor did very little.
I'd be very tempted to play Luiz (with Marvelous) to create a more solid midfield, freeing up Jack and SJM to get more forward without fear of leaving us open to counter-attack. And Luiz is a good enough to get further forward when/if required.
Luiz certainly has the ability but not sure about his conditioning levels currently. Seems to be carrying a bit of timber. In hindsight it might have been best to give a few hard weeks pre season after he joined and gradually eased him in. Seems to have worked for Nakamba. Luiz/Nakamba have the making of a very good pairing in there. Right/left balance and both comfortable taking the ball under pressure.
Hourihane has other qualities but is horribly one sided, uncomfortable turning on his right side and barely able to kick with his right foot at all.
-
-
They've cruelly cut out all of Wesley's great moments.
-
They've cruelly cut out all of Wesley's great moments.
As Del Boy once said to Trigger.....
"That's called 'blinking'"
-
Thought it spoke volumes for where we are that an established PL team didn't even give a thought to trying to win the game after they equalised -clearly, that's how highly the other team rated us.
When we get some competent refs (yes, I know) we should start moving up the league.
Good to see Ashley go out of his way to applaud the home crowd, and to see the appreciation returned. I'm really pleased with what he's achieved since he left us; surprising what you can achieve when you work under a manager who isn't shit.