Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: AllanW on September 02, 2019, 11:54:34 AM
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The latest comment is that 'it could take 3 years' to get it right, fans need to 'trust us' to get it right. No. Sorry. Too late.
Mark Clattenburg says that VAR and referees had a Saturday to forget
(https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7417043/MARK-CLATTENBURG-VAR-referees-Saturday-forget-Martin-Atkinson-did-grand-job.html)
but forgetting is the last thing we should do because it could all just happen again next Saturday. They say that the first step in dealing with a problem is recognising that there IS a problem so we should all use last Saturday as a wakeup call.
The problem is that our game on the pitch is not being run fairly. Put simply, what we pay to watch is not being officiated competently or even-handedly. And that’s no longer good enough. Not by a long chalk.
You might say ‘It’s always been this way, referees have always made mistakes, shut up and stop rocking the boat’ and you’d be right in part; referees HAVE always made mistakes but television coverage has changed the way our game is consumed; we can all see the mistakes now. Very little is hidden from the recording devices so we can replay it over and over again, in slow-motion and in ultra-definition. The curtain has been ripped aside and we can see what’s behind it.
That has changed forever how we understand the game. Billions can see the game now not just those who attend in person; and they all have access to video editing software and social media to let you know what they think about what they’ve seen. It’s a different world now.
Players have adapted their physical conditioning, strength, skills and flair to this new world. The football authorities have adapted the competition structures, formats and times of games. Hell, even clubs have changed the way they function and deal with the various stakeholders of agents, authorities, public and finance but refereeing has failed spectacularly to adapt and deliver the level playing-field which is the minimum they should be achieving.
Expecting the bureaucratic excuse that VAR has introduced of ‘we’ve imposed some haphazard rules around notification and time to allow us the leeway to protect referees from the consequences of their blatant mistakes’ is not washing anymore. Nor should it.
We shouldn’t put up with that crap any longer. We need to demand a fair game on the pitch.
This may be the next important thing we the fans can do for the sport we love; preserve it against the catastrophic outcomes we are seeing now. It’s not the players causing these problems, it’s not the clubs, it’s not agents, it’s not the television companies and it’s sure as hell not us; it’s the referees, protected by the football authorities.
They need to change so our job is to provide all the motivation they need to do so quickly and effectively. It can start small by everyone signing the petition to ban Kevin Friend as an example of incompetence.
https://www.change.org/p/football-fans-ban-kevin-friend-from-refereeing-premier-league-games?recruited_by_id=b1dcb990-cc0b-11e9-a436-3739f2073faa&share_bandit_exp=initial-17591627-en-GB&share_bandit_var=v1
Is this all about him? No, he’s just the best example right now of what we mean.
Is that a bit ‘small-time’? No, it’s just the start.
Then promote this campaign across all fanzines because it’s a problem at all levels and for all clubs in this country no matter what league you are in. We all have some skin in this game so get onboard. ‘We want a fair game on the pitch’ is the issue we can all get behind.
For the next stage in order to put a bit more ‘stick-and-carrot’ into the campaign I’d suggest we start ‘KevinWatch’ or whatever you decide to call it. Using Friend as an example we should monitor him like a leper; report on his football whereabouts, what games he’s assigned to in whatever capacity, what he’s doing, blanket coverage. And don’t go away until he’s gone.
Then the really meaty thing; develop and agree the performance measures we want to see about refereeing. These are the things that matter to us and really let us know whether the game on the pitch is getting better or not. Measure the mistakes, measure the bias, measure the misjudgements then report on them for every game. The OPTA stats are becoming a normal part of the game for clubs and players; why not have some for the refereeing part as well? Create them, report them, discuss them. Use fanzines to promote them because ‘We want a fair game on the pitch’ is OUR campaign. And don’t let them be hijacked by anyone else. They’ll be our measures and we won’t compromise them or hand them over to the football authorities until we get a fairer game.
Our aim is to be persistent with the message ‘We want a fair game on the pitch’.
Our objective is to get the Premier League and referees body to accept their responsibilities, not protect incompetence.
So when do we start?
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Clattenburg's opinion from that piece you linked to:
CRYSTAL PALACE vs VILLA
The worst decision of the weekend came during Aston Villa's 1-0 defeat at Crystal Palace when they were denied a stoppage-time equaliser. The golden rule for referees now is to allow a phase of play to be completed and, if a goal is scored, then a review takes place. Kevin Friend failed to adhere to this when he blew his whistle and cautioned Villa midfielder Jack Grealish for diving, just before Henri Lansbury scored. The VAR official Andrew Madley could not interfere because Friend had already whistled before the goal was scored - and therefore prevented any review.Replays showed contact between Grealish and Palace defender Gary Cahill - which was not enough for a penalty - but Villa will feel very unfortunate that VAR was not able to review the situation, as the goal would have probably been allowed to stand.
VERDICT: Referee got it wrong.
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Keith Hackett in The Telegraph:
Jack Grealish dive
VAR cannot intervene on the goal itself because Kevin Friend has already blown his whistle to penalise Grealish for what he saw as a dive. That is a refereeing error rather than a mistake by VAR. However, I believe that Gary Cahill’s challenge on Grealish was strong enough to merit a penalty being awarded. It was a foul, inside the area and should have been punished. It wasn’t, and Villa can count themselves incredibly unfortunate.
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We can’t get the point back. No matter who agrees with the crap Friend decision. Bleating is so very small time and makes other fans laugh at us. Let whatever injustice motivate the players to win games.
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it's like Clive Thomas never went away.
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When I first went on the referee's coaching course back in the early seventies, one of the pieces of advice given to us was: never be too quick to whistle. Allow a situation to develop, if any advantage doesn't accrue, then whistle. It's better to have a late whistle than a bad goal, likewise, as seen on Saturday, a quick whistle, if indeed he did, resulted in a team being cost a point. The referee's incompetence notwithstanding.
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As part of media duties, the referees should face questions after their game.
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I have just the tonic an evening with Kevin Friend 9th Jan 2020 at the Erewash Valley Referees Society.
Coaches 1 to 20 already full
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We can’t get the point back. No matter who agrees with the crap Friend decision. Bleating is so very small time and makes other fans laugh at us. Let whatever injustice motivate the players to win games.
This 100%
Move on , sometime in the future we will gain from a dodgy refs decision.
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I dont get this whistle thing?
If the ref blows his whistle for a penalty , it still gets checked by VAR to see if its the right decision .
Whistle or not that Lansbury goal should still have been checked just to prove what a shite ref Kevin Friend is and award the goal.
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As part of media duties, the referees should face questions after their game.
That will never happen, they would be torn to shreds.
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Where next for refereeing? The simple answer is they will be having a review meeting this or next weekend, and I would hope that the FA set out and enforce how they want VAR to be used because this version is absolute bolx. Any match officials refusing to comply should have their contract of employment terminated.
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We know we won't get the point back, but i'd hope that with so many non Villa saying how bad a decision it was that it would lead to a revue of the system to ensure it doesn't happen again. Mind you, as i'm still waiting nearly 6 months later for the FA to do something about one of our players being assaulted i'm not holding my breath.
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Newby; We can’t get the point back. No matter who agrees with the crap Friend decision. Bleating is so very small time and makes other fans laugh at us. Let whatever injustice motivate the players to win games.
Luke95; Move on , sometime in the future we will gain from a dodgy refs decision.
KRS; The simple answer is they will be having a review meeting this or next weekend, and I would hope that the FA set out and enforce how they want VAR to be used because this version is absolute bolx. Any match officials refusing to comply should have their contract of employment terminated.
PeterWithesShin; i'd hope that with so many non Villa saying how bad a decision it was that it would lead to a revue of the system to ensure it doesn't happen again.
Answers;
- No, we won’t get that point back but did you miss the point of the campaign being to make sure that such mistakes don’t hit us next time? Isn’t that a worthwhile objective?
- Other fans will always laugh at other clubs but not if they’re on the same side in this campaign to make sure the number of mistakes made by referees are reduced.
- ‘It all evens out’; no, it doesn’t. At all. Never does. The nature of one-off games like cup competitions and the nature of relegation and promotion means exactly the opposite is true. Clubs futures and player careers are damaged all the time by decisions. That’s the reality.
- Do you really think that the referees and the PL should be trusted to review and address this system? They own it, they built it, it doesn’t work. They have every motivation NOT to fix it. Partly because many fans think ‘it evens out’ or ‘We can’t do anything’. We can change that and put pressure on them to do what we want. Which is to aim for fairness on the pitch.
This is a campaign that can take off. It’s a campaign that all the player and fan responses this weekend should tell us is demanded by all fair-minded people. So why not try?
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Up there with "We love his chunky thighs" that is.
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The system didn't get this one wrong, the referee got it wrong by not implementing the agreed system by allowing play to continue and VAR to then review.
This incident is not one that can be used to criticise VAR but can be used to criticise Refs not doing what they're supposed to.
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Why does this need another thread?
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Why does this need another thread?
I asked Dave Woodhall before posting it and he okayed it.
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Up there with "We love his chunky thighs" that is.
:D
I hope you liked it
Pretty sure he didn't
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I've got a meeting tomorrow a couple of miles from where Friend lives in Wigston.
I shall give him a stern glance as I drive past.
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I dont get this whistle thing?
If the ref blows his whistle for a penalty , it still gets checked by VAR to see if its the right decision .
Whistle or not that Lansbury goal should still have been checked just to prove what a shite ref Kevin Friend is and award the goal.
This is the problem...Friend blew his whistle when he shouldn’t have done. What should have happened is he let’s play continue until the ball is dead. Most instances give advantage to the attacking team to see if a goal is scored or foul committed, play is then reviewed and the goal or penalty is either allowed (restart at kick off) or disallowed (restart at free kick or goal kick). What Friend did was to blow in favour of the defending team for an incorrect decision thereby nullifying any advantage to the attacking team. He basically royally fucked us over and broke all the rules with his incompetence.
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I've got a meeting tomorrow a couple of miles from where Friend lives in Wigston.
I shall give him a stern glance as I drive past.
I work in Oadby,just a mile or so from Wigston,and a lad i work with know's him,as speaks to him,i won't post the message i have asked him to give him.
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Isn't Kevin Friend from Leicester. You couldn't make it up.
https://twitter.com/SkyFootball/status/1168533911829458946?s=19
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We can’t get the point back. No matter who agrees with the crap Friend decision. Bleating is so very small time and makes other fans laugh at us. Let whatever injustice motivate the players to win games.
In most cases, aye.
But this was such a rotter of a performance the Fiend needs both barrels just for his own good. The spotlight will be on him now for the rest of the season - and not just if he refs us again.
For us, I hope it fires us to go all out (if we weren't already). So that one point lost is neither here nor there.
Think it was Descartes who said anger is an energy. And if he didn't he should've.
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Absolutely agree that refs should have to attend post-match conferences.
Hold the bastards to account!
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Add to that not spotting the Fredericks stamp (right in front of him) when he was 4th official in the play off final.
Hopefully he'll be dropped from the PL for a few weeks and Villa games for a few seasons.
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Lots of great research there from Vill I An (Thank you) about Kevin Friend which should remove any doubt whatsoever that his incompetence is recent, a one-off and to be excused as he's only human. It's a pattern; it's consistent; it's unacceptable. At the very least we should try to gather support for removing him.
Hopefully he'll be dropped from the PL for a few weeks and Villa games for a few seasons.
Here's my point; that won't happen at all. If it were likely he'd have been removed from the Senior List at some time over the last 7 or 8 years. But he hasn't been. Nor have any other of the incompetents who make blatant mistakes week in week out. It's not good enough. We deserve better. We deserve a fair game on the pitch.
But we won't get one if we rely on the administrators and refs bodies to police themselves. Self-regulation never works. Never.
So we should apply pressure for change. We need to demand a fair game on the pitch. The time is right; we have support on this issue right now from all quarters; players, clubs, fans etc so NOW is the time to build the campaign.
It can be done. Who wants to help?
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You're in danger of making us look massively whiney and small time if you start a capmaign against refs based on us getting a shocker.
I'm pretty sure Everton should have had a penalty against us and we weren't moaning about the ref and VAR not picking up on that.
Don't make a dick of yourself or take it too far, just suck it up as every other club does when they get a poor decision.
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You're in danger of making us look massively whiney and small time if you start a capmaign against refs based on us getting a shocker.
I'm pretty sure Everton should have had a penalty against us and we weren't moaning about the ref and VAR not picking up on that.
Don't make a dick of yourself or take it too far, just suck it up as every other club does when they get a poor decision.
Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.
The campaign is not based on us, Kevin Friend or one event. That's just a useful current example.
A few fans from other clubs will always call us whiny and small-time; don;t worry about it :)
Most fans will see that the campaign is about fairness for all and that includes them.
'Just suck it up'; forgive me but that's exactly what they want you to do because then they can carry on being crap with no pressure for change. You may be okay with that but I'm not and I think the time has come for many, many others who agree. It's not good enough.
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What exactly do you hope to achieve?
Hey guys PL refs can be a bit shite (particlarly against the Villa).
Ok we'll try and do a bit better. We may even introduce a new fangled video assistant referee to help improve things and pick up on major mistakes. It may take a while for everyone to get used to it and for it to bed in, but hopefully in due course it will work just as well as it does in rugby and cricket. Sound like a good idea?
But, but PL refs are shit and massively biased agains my club....
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What exactly do you hope to achieve?
Thanks for asking :)
Objective; A fairer game on the pitch. Less bias, fewer mistakes, more mistakes corrected quickly.
How? By showing the administrators and refs bodies that the fans will no longer put up with incompetence. They need to accept their responsibility to deliver a level-playing field and do a better job.
What does that mean? That fans from all clubs and all leagues support a 'We want a fair game on the pitch' campaign so the administrators and refs can no longer police their own performance.
How does that happen? By creating and reporting constantly on a set of refereeing performance measures that we, the fans, want to see. Like the OPTA stats for players but stats which monitor how the game is being refereed.
How do we get there? By building a campaign which is supported by all fan groups and fanzines as widely as possible. They must be the group which puts pressure on the PL and others to get this aspect of the game right because it's not going to happen if we wait for the refs to do it themselves. That much must be obvious to everyone now.
We can build this solidarity right now by capturing this moment and making it plain to all fans that getting onboard is easy and worthwhile. Starting with that petition to ban Kevin Friend from the PL refs panel. Then promote the campaign via fanzines to build a solid pressure group and create the perfromance measures. We can do that because we know what we want to see and what we don't want to see. Build the measure with as much creative input from the fans as possible (which is a lot) then report them each week. This is important because if you let the Pl or refs develop them and report them themselves they will get watered-down and become useless.
They are our measures and we bash-away at demanding them until the refereeing on the pitch becomes less biased, makes fewer mistakes and corrects as many of those as possible quickly.
We're not asking for perfection but we're saying it's nowhere near good enough now.
Wanna help set it up?
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Respectfully Allan, a fan forum is not the place to begin. The whole of football gets a shit deal from the Establishment. Policing, crowd control, kick off times, standards of officiating. Football in Britain is regarded as a sport for the poor and the unwashed. That is what needs to change. We are about to have a General Election. Write to your MP. Start an on line petition. A simple one about VAR. If it gets 100k signatures it gets Parliamentary time.
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Respectfully Allan, a fan forum is not the place to begin.
I appreciate the respectful :) but disagree; it's exactly the place to begin because we're the ones who want the change to happen.
The whole of football gets a shit deal from the Establishment. Policing, crowd control, kick off times, standards of officiating. Football in Britain is regarded as a sport for the poor and the unwashed. That is what needs to change. We are about to have a General Election. Write to your MP. Start an on line petition. A simple one about VAR. If it gets 100k signatures it gets Parliamentary time.
Agreed with your point about the place football occupies in our culture and the baggage it carries. But cannot for the life of me agree that the place to begin the change process, the people to ask to lead that change is parliament and our politicians. That's not an easy jab at our useless and selfish MP's and the fractured political machinery of this country, it's a bald statement of fact; they cannot lead, they have no idea how to do things and they have other matters on their mind at the moment. They are the last people we should look to for help.
It's down to us because we want it and we CAN do it. The time is right and it's a campaign that can be successful.
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To those worried about other fans laughing at them - diddums, grow the fuck up. It might look small time if it were just Villa fans and one game, and even one incident. It isn't. He's got previous with us from the Chelsea game we lost a few years ago and the Fulham play-off final stamp. Add in the blatant bias shown towards bookings in the first half of the Palace game. I had my suspicions something was up when McCarthy clearly barged Grealish over nowhere near the ball and we didn't even get a foul. Enough to suspect there might be some kind of "agenda" from him re Villa, if it were only Villa feeling hard done by. But fans from as far afield as Southampton and Liverpool are condemning him as well and bringing up numerous past indiscretions. As well as Journos, Broadcasters, former players, pundits, and, most tellingly, many former top level refs describing the disallowed goal decision as shockingly bad. When there is so much at stake he needs to be held accountable and to be seen to be held accountable. I just wish we'd had the same opportunities to protest in the days of David F*****g Elleray and Mark "Gooner" Halsey (and I blieve even the latter has called out Friend), among others.
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What exactly do you hope to achieve?
Thanks for asking :)
Objective; A fairer game on the pitch. Less bias, fewer mistakes, more mistakes corrected quickly.
How? By showing the administrators and refs bodies that the fans will no longer put up with incompetence. They need to accept their responsibility to deliver a level-playing field and do a better job.
What does that mean? That fans from all clubs and all leagues support a 'We want a fair game on the pitch' campaign so the administrators and refs can no longer police their own performance.
How does that happen? By creating and reporting constantly on a set of refereeing performance measures that we, the fans, want to see. Like the OPTA stats for players but stats which monitor how the game is being refereed.
How do we get there? By building a campaign which is supported by all fan groups and fanzines as widely as possible. They must be the group which puts pressure on the PL and others to get this aspect of the game right because it's not going to happen if we wait for the refs to do it themselves. That much must be obvious to everyone now.
We can build this solidarity right now by capturing this moment and making it plain to all fans that getting onboard is easy and worthwhile. Starting with that petition to ban Kevin Friend from the PL refs panel. Then promote the campaign via fanzines to build a solid pressure group and create the perfromance measures. We can do that because we know what we want to see and what we don't want to see. Build the measure with as much creative input from the fans as possible (which is a lot) then report them each week. This is important because if you let the Pl or refs develop them and report them themselves they will get watered-down and become useless.
They are our measures and we bash-away at demanding them until the refereeing on the pitch becomes less biased, makes fewer mistakes and corrects as many of those as possible quickly.
We're not asking for perfection but we're saying it's nowhere near good enough now.
Wanna help set it up?
Absolutely not.
If you think the PL refs don't already strive to be the best referees in the world then you are deluded.
Whilst games are refereed by human beings there will always be mistakes. They are trying to limit those with the introduction of VAR.
What will a 'fair game on the pitch' campaign achieve when all referees tell you that is excactly what they are already trying to achieve? They already monitor their performances and I don't see how publisiced stats will help, particulaly when so much of what they do is subjective.
I'm sorry, but I just think you are barking up the wrong tree here.
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I'm sorry
No problem. All the best. UTV.
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The only way to improve refereeing is for the people on here who want to complain and moan, to become referees and to do a better job at it. Or to persuade former players to become referees too. End of, stop bleating, move on. You will not stop poor decision making, ever.
Friend has previous? Really? Don’t they all?
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He has previous against us yes, yes he does. We won't get the lost point back so next best this is that he never ref's a game at a professional level again. That won't happen either but there's more chance than us getting our point.
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He has previous against us yes, yes he does. We won't get the lost point back so next best this is that he never ref's a game at a professional level again. That won't happen either but there's more chance than us getting our point.
Every PL ref will have one team or another who has a gripe about them. So hopefully non of them will ever ref at a professional level again. Then the PL can promote the refs from the Championship...
What, wait, they were shite too? oh...
Really, we are not victims here. We've just been on the end of a shit decision. As have several other clubs in the PL this season - probably including Everton against us.
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Off the top of my head, the only referee that I can think of that has/had been blatantly demoted from the PL is Andy D'Urso. He was guilty of nothing more than incompetence. I think it's fair to say that bias is something that cannot be leveled at him.
My abiding image of him is when he was fronted up by Roy Keane and the Class of '92 snarling at him for having the temerity to give a decision against them. He looked terrified. I know it's easy to say but, that would never have happened to me, my character on a football field was much, much stronger.
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Live from Zimbabwe
https://twitter.com/carelesstommy/status/1168861481225601025
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We can’t get the point back. No matter who agrees with the crap Friend decision. Bleating is so very small time and makes other fans laugh at us. Let whatever injustice motivate the players to win games.
Agree to a point, but there is a wider point in that they have got to use examples like that to get the processes right.
I see it as fairly simple really. Take the incident on Saturday as an example - ref sees the incident, thinks in his mind it is a dive, but lets the play go on to a natural stoppage. Then goes back and consults the technology to see if it was a dive or if the goal can stand.
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Problem with that is that VAR isn't being used for dives, all it can do is say yes/no it wasn't a penalty.
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Problem with that is that VAR isn't being used for dives, all it can do is say yes/no it wasn't a penalty.
So even if the whistle had gone after the ball hit the net it could have been ruled out by the ref for simulation by Grealish? I don't think that's correct. The point at which he blew his whistle is crucial is it not? If the Villa hating c*** was doing his job properly and let play continue as it should we'd have had our deserved point.
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Problem with that is that VAR isn't being used for dives, all it can do is say yes/no it wasn't a penalty.
I think this is correct from what I can make out and, in my opinion, is why this one happened as it did. He knew we had a scoring chance but he'd decided that Grealish had cheated and knew the goal would stand if we scored so he blew quickly. The solution is to allow events leading to a goal to all be reviewed, even if it's a tackle in the other half that led to break away. By limiting how much of the game can be checked you force the ref to make a decision early, which runs against the advice to let the game flow.
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I'm not sure all of that when through his head in that split second. I just think he was desperate to blow Grealish for diving and to be seen as a strong ref who will stamp down on it. He go over excited when he got the chance ad it has backfired massively on him.
I certainly agree that they should be allowed to check events leading to a goal. What is wrong with the ref just saying, "my on-field decision is a goal but can you please check that tackle, handball etc"
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I'm not sure all of that when through his head in that split second. I just think he was desperate to blow Grealish for diving and to be seen as a strong ref who will stamp down on it. He go over excited when he got the chance ad it has backfired massively on him.
I certainly agree that they should be allowed to check events leading to a goal. What is wrong with the ref just saying, "my on-field decision is a goal but can you please check that tackle, handball etc"
Possibly not but the whole situation with VAR is confusing right now. Everything I can find says the recommendation is to let play go and then review later but there's a whole bunch of things they can't review so if the ref thinks it's something that falls in that category then they have to blow up quickly, thus removing the option to use VAR. It's a mess. I get there were problems in the womens world cup (in my opinion this was mainly down to the pitchside review by the ref) but going to this extreme in response makes the technology largely pointless other than catching things like the new handball rule or marginal offsides, the latter being something that doesn't fit in the remit of using it anyway.
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VAR won't say "it was a fair challenge, neither a pen or a dive, goal stands" because play had stopped as soon as he blows so as far as VAR, and the rules of the game go, we never scored.
With how VAR is used Friend, or any ref, can't let play continue then ask VAR to check if it was a dive, if they think it is a dive the ref has to blow as VAR won't look back and say "clear simulation by Grealish, disallow the goal".
The only thing it could have done is say "clear foul on Grealish, award a penalty".
Friend was obviously massively incompetent, but the current VAR system is too flawed imo.
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The only way to improve refereeing is for the people on here who want to complain and moan, to become referees and to do a better job at it. Or to persuade former players to become referees too. End of, stop bleating, move on. You will not stop poor decision making, ever.
Friend has previous? Really? Don’t they all?
Sorry that's crap. We all make mistakes but most of us are probably held accountable if we do our jobs badly. Why shouldn't refs be, especially when there is a lengthy history of cock ups from a particular individual? It is a difficult job but isn't that one reason why VAR is there to help them? He didn't give it a chance, so eager was he to punish Grealish. And yes he does have history with us. There aren't that many refs you can say have mugged us more than once or twice, but he is one of them who stands out, along with Elleray and Halsey.
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The only way to improve refereeing is for the people on here who want to complain and moan, to become referees and to do a better job at it. Or to persuade former players to become referees too. End of, stop bleating, move on. You will not stop poor decision making, ever.
Friend has previous? Really? Don’t they all?
Sorry that's crap. We all make mistakes but most of us are probably held accountable if we do our jobs badly. Why shouldn't refs be, especially when there is a lengthy history of cock ups from a particular individual? It is a difficult job but isn't that one reason why VAR is there to help them? He didn't give it a chance, so eager was he to punish Grealish. And yes he does have history with us. There aren't that many refs you can say have mugged us more than once or twice, but he is one of them who stands out, along with Elleray and Halsey.
The F.A. don't give a fuck. They back their referees, despite the crap decisions. This is NOT a VAR issue, this is a terrible, personal opinion of a single individual called Kevin Friend. All referees will piss us off. Granted Friend appears to have done it more than once. He's a c*** and a crap referee but he's backed by even bigger c***s at the F.A. Yes, the mere mortals like you and I are held to account if we do a shit job. We live in the real world but you need to come to terms with the fact that the referees and the F.A. don't. Boys own stuff I'm afraid.
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I have complete faith in FA. They'll announce the punishment for our player being assaulted any day now. Any day now.
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The only way to improve refereeing is for the people on here who want to complain and moan, to become referees and to do a better job at it. Or to persuade former players to become referees too. End of, stop bleating, move on. You will not stop poor decision making, ever.
Friend has previous? Really? Don’t they all?
Sorry that's crap. We all make mistakes but most of us are probably held accountable if we do our jobs badly. Why shouldn't refs be, especially when there is a lengthy history of cock ups from a particular individual? It is a difficult job but isn't that one reason why VAR is there to help them? He didn't give it a chance, so eager was he to punish Grealish. And yes he does have history with us. There aren't that many refs you can say have mugged us more than once or twice, but he is one of them who stands out, along with Elleray and Halsey.
The F.A. don't give a fuck. They back their referees, despite the crap decisions. This is NOT a VAR issue, this is a terrible, personal opinion of a single individual called Kevin Friend. All referees will piss us off. Granted Friend appears to have done it more than once. He's a c*** and a crap referee but he's backed by even bigger c***s at the F.A. Yes, the mere mortals like you and I are held to account if we do a shit job. We live in the real world but you need to come to terms with the fact that the referees and the F.A. don't. Boys own stuff I'm afraid.
If the FA are the ultimate problem then how is it going to improve whoever becomes a ref? And how are ex-players, many of whom appear to be on the thick side, and many of whom will have their own pet hate teams, going to help? Or me or you? And what then is the point of VAR if they back useless official regardless?
And should we just accept everything shitty in life and not try and change it? My point is accountability is needed somewhere. In the "real world" things can be, and are, changed by protest, campaigning, lobbying etc. The same can happen with ivory tower organisations like the FA if enough pressure is brought to bear, and a petition added to the media reaction is maybe not an unreasonable starting point.
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And should we just accept everything shitty in life and not try and change it? My point is accountability is needed somewhere. In the "real world" things can be, and are, changed by protest, campaigning, lobbying etc. The same can happen with ivory tower organisations like the FA if enough pressure is brought to bear, and a petition added to the media reaction is maybe not an unreasonable starting point.
Nice. I agree.
The petition latest, if you want to add to it;
https://www.change.org/p/football-fans-ban-kevin-friend-from-refereeing-premier-league-games?recruited_by_id=b1dcb990-cc0b-11e9-a436-3739f2073faa&share_bandit_exp=initial-17591627-en-GB&share_bandit_var=v1
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I tell you what, if Blues fans had started this petition we’d be pissing ourselves laughing at them. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Seriously you guys need to get a grip.
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It's harmless. Doesn't worry me in the slightest. I signed 😁
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Not signing a petition like that, definitely needs to be more strategic and campaign for a better standards system if needed.
The one below it however i have signed, real world issue, thanks.
https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-prosecution-of-those-who-are-saving-lives-in-the-mediterranean-sea-freepia
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Not signing a petition like that, definitely needs to be more strategic and campaign for a better standards system if needed.
The one below it however i have signed, real world issue, thanks.
https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-prosecution-of-those-who-are-saving-lives-in-the-mediterranean-sea-freepia
Done, bro.
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It's harmless. Doesn't worry me in the slightest. I signed 😁
Just for being told to get a grip, I signed it, too. So there :)
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Not signing a petition like that, definitely needs to be more strategic and campaign for a better standards system if needed.
The one below it however i have signed, real world issue, thanks.
https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-prosecution-of-those-who-are-saving-lives-in-the-mediterranean-sea-freepia
Done, bro.
Signed, also.
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I tell you what, if Blues fans had started this petition we’d be pissing ourselves laughing at them. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Seriously you guys need to get a grip.
Yes we'd all be laughing at them. If we had a pathetic childish mindset that couldn't see there is a genuine issue at stake. Perhaps targeting just Friend is not entirely appropriate, but the principle of making refs more accountable is an issue many feel is worth raising. Anyway was it started by Villa fans? There seems to be an undercurrent of anti-Friend sentiment going back a long way from fans of multiple clubs based on the comments in that petition link.
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Not signing a petition like that, definitely needs to be more strategic and campaign for a better standards system if needed.
The one below it however i have signed, real world issue, thanks.
https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-prosecution-of-those-who-are-saving-lives-in-the-mediterranean-sea-freepia
Done
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Referee Kevin 'nobodys' Friend is on sky cameras this Saturday night, 530pm , spoiling what should be a good contest Norwich v Man City.
Thanks Vill I An.
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Does that mean he won't be getting any games for a while?
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I'm liking the 'Nobody's Friend Watch' line :)
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Look, he's not a great ref and made a dreadful decision against us. But do we really need to obsess over him with updates on who, where and when he is reffing for the rest of the season?
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Look, he's not a great ref and made a dreadful decision against us. But do we really need to obsess over him with updates on who, where and when he is reffing for the rest of the season?
Yeah good point Chris because if something happens in a Kevin friend match then I sure someone somewhere will highlight it so the actual watch will stop. Even though it's a ref thread it's a villa site I for one don't need to be looking for him unless it's directly related to villa .
I do think some people may be interested in the heads up if he's doing a villa match so, for me, I'll reason with only shouting his appointment when we have him on a Villa match duties.
Fair play is my game .
I'm not obsessed with him (much) ;) .
I was merely seeing if he was punished for his atrocious refereeing of our game! He's had chance to re-assess his decisions and rescind JG's yellow for diving.
Neither of these things have happened. Therefore, appallingly in my view, he did a great job in the eyes of himself and the referees governing body.
I wonder why we bother to watch a game as it's clearly not for the benefit of the spectators.
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I agree. I was surprised he wasnt 'rested.' I hope behind closed doors he's embarrassed about the call he made. But then he's not the only ref to have fucked up this season - the West Ham sending off being a case in point.
On the second point above - I think refs should review any potential second yellow on the VAR screen before a player is sent off. This would stop injustices like West Ham, but also hopefully give refs more confidence to card someone like Billings in our first match. Anyone else agree?
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Look, he's not a great ref and made a dreadful decision against us. But do we really need to obsess over him with updates on who, where and when he is reffing for the rest of the season?
What exactly is your objection to other members posting on this, please?
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Look, he's not a great ref and made a dreadful decision against us. But do we really need to obsess over him with updates on who, where and when he is reffing for the rest of the season?
What exactly is your objection to other members posting on this, please?
Well, it's just pointless Allan. What does it matter who Friend is reffing next? He wasn't punished and is being appointed on games going forward - why is it relevant to us who he's reffing next week? Are we going to have a running post about every ref who gives a shit decision against us? What about refs who give shit decisions against other teams, should we set up running posts about them too or is that overkill?
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What exactly is your objection to other members posting on this, please?
Well, it's just pointless Allan.
I'll try to show below that it isn't.
What does it matter who Friend is reffing next?
You mean apart from being a senior member of the referees body and being held-up as a proper example of good practice as a referee? Well, it matters because whoever he referees next WILL be affected by his incompetence, he will undoubtedly add to the long, long list of errors he has amassed so far. And while that is not Aston Villa it is a part of the whole league operation which will continue to be unfair, biased and badly administered. In addition he will continue to supply examples of exactly the sort of malpractice we wish to highlight and continuing to share these on this list and wider afield would be useful in gathering support from other lists and supporters groups for a push to change those circumstances. It is evidence that will sway others to advocate for change.
He wasn't punished and is being appointed on games going forward - why is it relevant to us who he's reffing next week?
Because his incompetent, biased and inept actions may affect our relegation or survival in this league. Not a small matter, I hope you agree. His existence in his job continues to affect us fundamentally, my friend. I'm sure I don't need to point out the host of decisions or lack of decisions he may make in games which will affect us. Mistakes do not even-out, they are separate isolated incidents which accumulate rather than offset.
Are we going to have a running post about every ref who gives a shit decision against us?
Not from me but I remain open to other members wishing to post on whatever they wish to here, subject to the mods actions. I don't want to police the activities of others ...
What about refs who give shit decisions against other teams, should we set up running posts about them too
Again 'No' but by this time I suspect you've got a bit hyperbolic and we're all prone to that from time to time :)
All the best and UTV.
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So who's fining Mike Dean for Saturday's shit-show?
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Agree totally with this. He was inciting our players with his unfair actions and forcing them to play within themselves by his early bookings, which made everyone wary of a sending off.
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He was shocking, he spoiled the flow of the game, the commentators called it, the pundits called it, we certainly did and it must have had an effect on the players.
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Also the daft thing is, having a quick look on Molineux Mix's post match autopsy they were equally appalled by him too thinking they got nothing from him and that he was too card happy. It was an absolute shocker but I presume there is no way of us appealing the fine?
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Five days on from the game, and we are still talking about Mike Dean. He would be absolutely thrilled if he knew, because that is his sole intention. The bloke needs to step down and stay there, pronto.
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At one time 48 was the age refs retired, but now there's no age limit, so providing they pass the fitness test, they can carry on. Dean, 52, does look pretty fit so unfortunately it looks like he'll be around for a few years yet.
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A fine athlete for his age, more power to you Mike !
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At one time 48 was the age refs retired, but now there's no age limit, so providing they pass the fitness test, they can carry on. Dean, 52, does look pretty fit so unfortunately it looks like he'll be around for a few years yet.
52?! Jesus, I look pretty good for my age in comparison then. Though I'm not as fit, I'd struggle to generate enough puff to blow a whistle as much as he does.
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It used to be the case that you could console yourself that refs had to retire at a certain age (47, was it?) and you'd be shot of the bastards.
Now they hang around like shit on a blanket and, when they finally have to pack in, you know they'll be lined up to piss about with the VAR verdicts!
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https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12194466/ref-watch-bernardo-silvas-goal-for-man-city-vs-aston-villa-allowed-by-unpalatable-loophole
Ref Watch