Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: Comrade Blitz on August 24, 2019, 11:06:06 PM

Title: Athletics 2019
Post by: Comrade Blitz on August 24, 2019, 11:06:06 PM
Let's kick this off by congratulating Ojie Edoburun, the new British 100m national champion.


More results from today's events in Birmingham here:


https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/49460723 (https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/49460723)
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Comrade Blitz on September 07, 2019, 06:27:57 AM
2018-2019 Diamond League Finals:

GBR Dina Asher-Smith 100m champion! Yeahhhhhhh Brexit wins!!!!

USA Men take 100, 200, 400 and 800 titles

Christian Taylor breaks Jonathan Edwards' meet record to claim Triple Jump

USA Ajee Wilson wins women's 800m
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 29, 2019, 09:35:07 PM
Great effort Dina. Shelley-Ann Fraser-Price is an incredible athlete.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 29, 2019, 10:33:45 PM
Asher-Smith is a lot younger than Fraser-Price. Potential future gold medallist?
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 30, 2019, 07:35:01 AM
I’d say so. She won’t have peaked yet and Fraser-Price is an all time great.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on September 30, 2019, 09:46:07 AM
I think Asher-Smith might take her next year. 23-24 should see Asher-Smith getting stronger but 32-33 will see Fraser-Price either maintain her current level or go backwards.

I think Zharnel Hughes is an outside shout for an Olympic medal as well. He's been considered more of a 200m runner for a while but in the last 18months he's stepped up massively in the 100m to drop his PB down to 9.95. However, from what I've heard, he's clocked low 9.80s in training so they're working on getting him putting in those times under pressure but his coaching team think he'll break Christie's British record in the next couple of years.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Villafirst on October 01, 2019, 07:46:56 PM
Medal prospects look sparse for British Athletes in these championships. Our middle distance athletes are nowhere. Gone are the days of Coe, Ovett and Cram. Where's the new Kelly Holmes ? Dina Asher-Smith is one of the few exceptions. Gemili might surprise us yet....
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 01, 2019, 09:12:12 PM
He finished fourth. Expect DAS to add a medal of some colour or other in the 200 metres and we usually have a chance of a medal or two in the relays. Maybe KJT in the heptathlon? On that subject, why don't women do the decathlon?
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 01, 2019, 09:15:11 PM
Doha looks like a crawl in the park.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 01, 2019, 09:19:19 PM
Congrats on silver for DAS in the 100 and dare we hope on the 200?

I don’t know what started the move for mixed relays but keep ‘em, they’re surprisingly exciting to watch.  No idea what the athletic payoff is, but there must be something.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 01, 2019, 09:21:15 PM
A decathlon is 10 of whatever.
Any woman would ask, after 7 or 8, for God’s sake, why?

That’s probably not an IAFF policy, but still.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 01, 2019, 09:22:18 PM
Agree, relays are great. Wouldn't mind them mixing it up further like the biathlon. Get them to chuck a javelin and then do a long jump at the end of their lap. Maybe do the long jump while their teammate throws a javelin, add an element of danger.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 01, 2019, 09:23:38 PM
A decathlon is 10 of whatever.
Any woman would ask, after 7 or 8, for God’s sake, why?

That’s probably not an IAFF policy, but still.

The point I was querying was why don't women do the same event as men? Seems like a throwback to an era when women were treated as dainty creatures rather than equal athletes. Or it may be that women have chosen the shorter event? I don't know.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: luke:lamf on October 01, 2019, 09:33:23 PM
Women don't do decathlon because their flimsy lady-bodies can't handle it.

Joking aside, I don't know the real answer, but I wouldn't be against the men dropping down to seven to even it up. Having the 100 and 400, in addition to the hurdles, makes it too sprint-heavy, and the pole vault is too technical.

One sprint (200m)
One hurdles
One middle-distance (1500 or 3000, which would make it really interesting in terms of the trade-off between power and endurance)
Javelin or Discus (light / "athletic" throw)
Shot (heavy / "power"  throw)
High jump
Long jump
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 01, 2019, 09:36:01 PM
Agree, relays are great. Wouldn't mind them mixing it up further like the biathlon. Get them to chuck a javelin and then do a long jump at the end of their lap. Maybe do the long jump while their teammate throws a javelin, add an element of danger.

Add a crossbow and they could take out the opposition 👍

I realised what you were asking about longer/ shorter events and I don’t know either. Can’t imagine many of the Diamond athletes being worried about doing more events, though.

Like Luke:lamf’s 💡
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: olaftab on October 01, 2019, 09:37:32 PM
A decathlon is 10 of whatever.
Any woman would ask, after 7 or 8, for God’s sake, why?

That’s probably not an IAFF policy, but still.

The point I was querying was why don't women do the same event as men? Seems like a throwback to an era when women were treated as dainty creatures rather than equal athletes. Or it may be that women have chosen the shorter event? I don't know.
So do we want women to be equally crap at 10 events as men are?
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 01, 2019, 10:37:43 PM
Medal prospects look sparse for British Athletes in these championships. Our middle distance athletes are nowhere. Gone are the days of Coe, Ovett and Cram. Where's the new Kelly Holmes ? Dina Asher-Smith is one of the few exceptions. Gemili might surprise us yet....

She#s called Laura Muir - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Muir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Muir) - and she will be hoping to get a medal in the 1500m. She's already beaten Holmes' British record in the 1500m a few years back and has very strong times in 800 and 3000 as well. Her and Asher-Smith are probably the 2 most exciting female athletes the country has produced since Ennis and both are still a long way from their peak.

On the decathlon, the womens decathlon is a thing, it's just a minor event because, traditionally, very few athletes had the funding to be competitive so Heptathlon carried on as the multi-discipline event at the big championships, which means the decathlon continues to get no funding or athletes, so it never changes. I don't think there's any will to change it (or the mens decathlon). It's much the same for the sprint hurdles (110m vs 100m). Where changes come is when there is a gap that can be pressured by athletes to be filled. That has seen the womens 10k and 3k steeplechase and pole vault all gain prominence in the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 01, 2019, 10:45:37 PM
I think Daley Smith might give you an argument on being crap at the decathlon, Olaftab!

Thanks, Paul e, for info on Laura Muir
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 01, 2019, 10:50:40 PM
I don't do much on twitter, following Katharine Merry is one of my highlights.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 01, 2019, 10:56:03 PM
I don't do much on twitter, following Katharine Merry is one of my highlights.
I follow her as well, she’s entertaining. And a Villa fan!
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 01, 2019, 10:58:57 PM
I think Daley Smith might give you an argument on being crap at the decathlon, Olaftab!

Thanks, Paul e, for info on Laura Muir

Keep an eye on her, she's a special talent and, until the last year or so, was doing it all part-time because she refused to leave her vet course at uni, not important but it's a great bit of trivia.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: olaftab on October 01, 2019, 11:01:24 PM
Louise Daley was a fine athlete however the stats for 10 events make  no impression at all on same events when competed for individually by elite athletes. For example Daley running 100 meters in 10.64 seconds (his best event) would not have made the quarter final heats in the actual 100 meters race.
He was very good in the decathlon but what's the point at Olympic level?
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 01, 2019, 11:05:03 PM
I think it’s about being an excellent all round Olympic athlete, although the specialists in each event are completely eye-boggling.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 01, 2019, 11:21:24 PM
Louise Daley was a fine athlete however the stats for 10 events make  no impression at all on same events when competed for individually by elite athletes. For example Daley running 100 meters in 10.64 seconds (his best event) would not have made the quarter final heats in the actual 100 meters race.
He was very good in the decathlon but what's the point at Olympic level?

Think that's a bit harsh. Like saying John McGinn is pointless because he doesn't score as many goals as Harry Kane and he's useless in goal.

The multi-sports athletes are brilliant all-round sports stars and a massive boost to the games. (Plus Britain tends to do well at heptathlon, so there's that...)
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: olaftab on October 02, 2019, 11:04:29 AM
I welcome any medals :)
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Comrade Blitz on October 02, 2019, 07:45:21 PM
There is a women's decathlon. Read more here:

https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6206343-the-inaugural-womens-decathlon-championship-is-a-big-deal-and-heres-why

Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 02, 2019, 08:27:21 PM
That's good. Wonder if it will eventually replace heptathlon?

I'd like to see them do everything except the long distance ones, as it's unfair to expect them to do so much over a short period of time.

So I would have them do:
100m
200m
400m
800m
1500m
100/110m Hurdles
400m Hurdles
High Jump
Long Jump
Triple Jump
Pole Vault
Discus
Hammer
Shot Put
Javelin

Think that's everything except for the long distance events?

That's fifteen. My Greek isn't good but guess that's a Decapentathlon? Perhaps do it over three days rather than two.

Anyway, KJT in first place going into tomorrow's final three events, and DAS goes for a medal in ten minutes or so.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 02, 2019, 08:38:45 PM
GOLD!
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 02, 2019, 08:39:22 PM
Won by a fucking mile. Top work Dina.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 02, 2019, 08:42:25 PM
She could have stopped half way round for a fag and still won. Battered them.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Villa Lew on October 02, 2019, 08:47:45 PM
Well done Dina, great stuff.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 02, 2019, 08:51:38 PM
Brilliant performance from her, deserved a far bigger crowd.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 02, 2019, 09:03:30 PM
Could we bid to host this, seeing as we will have the stadium ready for it in 2022? We would get much better crowds than this.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: AllanW on October 02, 2019, 09:15:30 PM
On the Dec and Hep;

- the difference in the official event disciplines is indeed a historical one; when the first official formulations were made it was decided that, as women at the time did not compete in Pole Vault and Discus Throw, they were not advised to do them in the Combined Events. And because they were women it was decided that fewer and less taxing events (substituting the 800m for the 1500m that the men do, missing out the 100m sprint completely) would be sensible. It was the prevailing view of the time. We know better now.

- there is a Dec for women which exactly matches the mens but it is not official. In the US it is available far more widely than elsewhere, colleges and States run championships but not nationally or internationally. I hope that changes soon.

- No-one will let you know why the equalising rules changes have not yet been made even when Pole Vault has been a sport for women for 20+ years etc but my own view is that the current Hep balance of disciplines favours sprinter/jumper athlete types and disadvantages strength-based or throwing athletes and the history the US and UK have achieved in international events (because they produce sprinter/jumpers) compared to Eastern European or African and Caribbean athletes (who have traditionally produced jumper/thrower types more often) means that the US and UK try to keep it at 7 with the current balance. Just my own view. I hope it changes soon because it's embarrasing to retain this anacronism from a more ignorant era.

- the Dec is, to my mind, the most enthralling competition in international athletics. The balance of speed, strength, technique and flexibility needs to be constantly maintained so that no one discipline falters and destroys the overall achievement. This is shown by one-discipline experts doing a Dec; Lavillenie did a few and scored monster points in Pole Vault but not enough to compensate for Jav, Disc and Shot performances below par. With a mix of 3 throws, 3 jumps and 4 trach disciplines you need to perform in all to win, not just 9. 

- the points system is done by discipline and each disciplines points are reset every few years based upon the actual world achievents within each event so, for example, if someone breaks the world record in Javelin or world performances advance across a broad front, the same performance in Javelin from one year to the enxt will earn fewer points in the Dec because the standard has been inched upwards.

- Daley Thompson was my athletic sporting hero.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 02, 2019, 09:29:21 PM
Fantastic, Dina. Woop woop and totally world beating🤪👍


And,
Is the judgment on our Mick the hammer thrower well dodgy?
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 02, 2019, 09:38:29 PM
Katrina Johnson Thompson has just left everybody else behind.
Fantastic.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 02, 2019, 09:41:07 PM
Could we bid to host this, seeing as we will have the stadium ready for it in 2022? We would get much better crowds than this.


I'd be surprised if we don't bid. Eugene 2021, Budapest 2023. Birmingham 2025...
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Louzie0 on October 02, 2019, 09:44:24 PM
On the Dec and Hep;

- the difference in the official event disciplines is indeed a historical one; when the first official formulations were made it was decided that, as women at the time did not compete in Pole Vault and Discus Throw, they were not advised to do them in the Combined Events. And because they were women it was decided that fewer and less taxing events (substituting the 800m for the 1500m that the men do, missing out the 100m sprint completely) would be sensible. It was the prevailing view of the time. We know better now.

- there is a Dec for women which exactly matches the mens but it is not official. In the US it is available far more widely than elsewhere, colleges and States run championships but not nationally or internationally. I hope that changes soon.

- No-one will let you know why the equalising rules changes have not yet been made even when Pole Vault has been a sport for women for 20+ years etc but my own view is that the current Hep balance of disciplines favours sprinter/jumper athlete types and disadvantages strength-based or throwing athletes and the history the US and UK have achieved in international events (because they produce sprinter/jumpers) compared to Eastern European or African and Caribbean athletes (who have traditionally produced jumper/thrower types more often) means that the US and UK try to keep it at 7 with the current balance. Just my own view. I hope it changes soon because it's embarrasing to retain this anacronism from a more ignorant era.

- the Dec is, to my mind, the most enthralling competition in international athletics. The balance of speed, strength, technique and flexibility needs to be constantly maintained so that no one discipline falters and destroys the overall achievement. This is shown by one-discipline experts doing a Dec; Lavillenie did a few and scored monster points in Pole Vault but not enough to compensate for Jav, Disc and Shot performances below par. With a mix of 3 throws, 3 jumps and 4 trach disciplines you need to perform in all to win, not just 9. 

- the points system is done by discipline and each disciplines points are reset every few years based upon the actual world achievents within each event so, for example, if someone breaks the world record in Javelin or world performances advance across a broad front, the same performance in Javelin from one year to the enxt will earn fewer points in the Dec because the standard has been inched upwards.

- Daley Thompson was my athletic sporting hero.
That’s absolutely fascinating, AllanW. I had no idea about traditional national athletic discipline preferences, if I can describe it that way.  Like you, I hope for progress and inclusion with the development of the multi disciplinary events for women.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 03, 2019, 11:27:33 AM
Watched it last night but wanted to watch it again before commenting, Asher-Smith was phenomenal, she's head and shoulders above anyone else in the 200m. I stand by my comment earlier in the week that Asher-Smith could well take the 100m next year (olympics) as part of the sprint double. The power out of the blocks and control when she's at full pace are fantastic to see from someone so young.

KJT did brilliantly but her 2 weakest events have been the javelin and the 800m in the past so she could do with a big result in the long jump as well. The most impressive part yesetrday though was the shot, she struggled to get over 12m for a long time so pushing close to 14m is a massive improvement for her. The Javelin is where she needs to do something special though. Her and Thiam have a similar record in the long jump (both normally get something in the 6.50-6.70 range) and she should be able to pick up 5-6 seconds in the 800 but she normally gives Thiam 15-20m in the Javelin and that could cost her the gold here, fingers crossed for her.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 03, 2019, 06:09:59 PM
Massive performance from KJT in the long jump to open a great lead now. The Javelin is massive now, if she gets something around her PB she'll be in a great place going into the 800m and could even threaten the british record, fair play to her, she's had a fantastic couple of days.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 03, 2019, 06:18:31 PM
Brilliant first throw from her, she'd have gone into that wanting 40+ so over 42 is fantastic, it's good to see that she's put some work into her throws for this year.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Villan For Life on October 03, 2019, 06:37:30 PM
I think she’s heading for a gold. To throw a PB in one of her weaker events is fantastic.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 03, 2019, 06:54:17 PM
I think she’s heading for a gold. To throw a PB in one of her weaker events is fantastic.

She's got PBs in her 2 weakest events, she's clearly been working on rounding herself out as an athlete and it's made a massive difference.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 03, 2019, 10:18:48 PM
GOLD!

And another!
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 03, 2019, 10:19:19 PM
Come on KJT, go for the 7000, that's a once in a lifetime achievement!
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 03, 2019, 10:20:07 PM
Awww, soo close to the 7000
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: AllanW on October 03, 2019, 10:32:27 PM
Awww, soo close to the 7000

A fantastic attempt at it, to be honest. Impressive. The world marks above 7000 are, ahem, 'dubious' so getting there clean is a terrific success. Well done Kat.

The end of the Dec will be close and enthralling; Kauls Jav has made it really close.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2019, 08:04:54 PM
5th for Muir in a very quick race earlier, without her disrupted season she might not have tied up in the last 200 but even at her best I think it might have been a bit quick for her. In context she'd have needed to take 4 seconds off her own British record to challenge. That she nearly ran a PB despite there being question marks over her fitness going in does bode well, a good winter and injury free summer next year and she'll be right in the mix at the Olympics.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Somniloquism on July 20, 2022, 02:19:56 PM
As most are being recycled.....

World 1500 meter winner whilst dad commentates in stadium.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/62233812
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 20, 2022, 02:35:48 PM
I didn't even know the world championship was on until I saw an article about the above story while looking for Tour de France news on the Guardian. I am abroad at the moment, is it on terrestrial TV at all?
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2022, 02:44:00 PM
It's on BBC, but in the far west of America so all the big events are on at stupid times.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Villa Lew on July 22, 2022, 09:28:11 AM
Great effort from Dina Asher-Smith getting bronze in the 200, looking forward to seeing her in the Commonwealth Games, hopefully the 2 Jamaicans, who got gold and silver won't be competing.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: maidstonevillain on July 22, 2022, 01:31:57 PM
Great effort from Dina Asher-Smith getting bronze in the 200, looking forward to seeing her in the Commonwealth Games, hopefully the 2 Jamaicans, who got gold and silver won't be competing.
I hope they will be. I've got tickets for the 200m Final.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Villa Lew on July 25, 2022, 02:19:45 PM
Superb effort from Keely Hodgkinson in the 800m, just missing out on gold.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 25, 2022, 02:20:40 PM
Can Comrade Blitz or a moderator update the name of this thread, please?
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 25, 2022, 02:21:42 PM
Also surprising to see how good Timothée Chalamet is at the Pole Vault.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2022, 02:22:33 PM
Superb effort from Keely Hodgkinson in the 800m, just missing out on gold.

She's an incredible talent.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: The Charmer on July 25, 2022, 02:37:09 PM
Superb effort from Keely Hodgkinson in the 800m, just missing out on gold.
It irked me a bit the way the American girl left a clear gap as she came off the bend and then closed it, leaning in to Keely in the home straight.
Wouldn't hurt to have Steve Ovett as a consultant on the training team,
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2022, 02:41:51 PM
Superb effort from Keely Hodgkinson in the 800m, just missing out on gold.
It irked me a bit the way the American girl left a clear gap as she came off the bend and then closed it, leaning in to Keely in the home straight.
Wouldn't hurt to have Steve Ovett as a consultant on the training team,

That's an experience thing, she's still very young and is learning a bit of 'race craft' still.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 25, 2022, 02:56:39 PM
Not enjoying the stupid times. Assume this is going to be what it's like when LA hosts the Olympics. They should just go back to holding them in Athens each time, IMO. They didn't have races at half three in the morning our time. Although I suppose it would have to be after 9pm if they still insist on doing the events togs off.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Villa Lew on July 26, 2022, 11:35:33 AM
Can Comrade Blitz or a moderator update the name of this thread, please?

Not really much point, as the next post on here will probably be on the World Championships in 12 months time, unless Seb Coe makes a dramatic return to athletics :)
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 26, 2022, 11:47:46 AM
Well we could just remove "2019" altogether.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Villa Lew on July 26, 2022, 12:32:15 PM
Yeah or have 'Athletics 21st Century', that should cover it for a while.
Title: Re: Athletics 2019
Post by: Villa Lew on October 02, 2022, 12:06:10 PM
Kenya'a Amos Kipruto win's the men's London Marathon in 2.04.38 and Ethiopa's Yalemzerf Yehualaw wins the women's in 2.17.25.

Kenya's Eliud Kipchoge holds the record for the men's London Marathon in 2.02.37 in 2019 and Paula Radcliffe the women's in 2.15.25 back in 2003.
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